The Dale Jr. Download - 381 - Rick Mears: A Quiet Desire

Episode Date: May 10, 2022

When a Motorsports icon walks into the room, that room changes. Dale Earnhardt Jr. and co-host Mike Davis welcome four-time Indianapolis 500 winner Rick Mears to the table for a fascinating discussion about his storied racing career.From the streets of Bakersfield came a young man, with a motorcycle and a thirst for competition. The sensible influence of a mother, added two more wheels underneath Rick Mears. Little did she know that it would lead to being one of the fastest racers on the planet. First, young Rick honed his skills on the dirt of Ascot Park, jumping and sliding around in Sprint Buggies. The world of off-road racing took young him to the desert, where races like the Mint 400 and the Baja 1000 introduced Mears to some of the giants of Motorsport. As his reputation grew, so did opportunity. Bill Simpson plucked Mears from the dirt into open-wheeled racecars. Two years later, this quiet Californian was attempting to qualify for the Indianapolis 500.His first 500 attempt came with failure. The experience of not making the 33-car field came with learning opportunities and a random meeting that would change the course of Mears' life. Enter Roger Penske. The famed racing team owner tabbed the virtually unknown racer to pilot one of his open-wheeled beasts. The duo blossomed into what became one of the most successful driver-car owner combinations in the sports' history.Mears' style was calm and calculated. Rick admits that his demeaner led to an embarrassing and potentially dangerous moment in the opening laps of his first Indy 500. It was so bad, that he didn't even want to cue the radio to tell Roger Penske. It's a story you have to hear to believe.Rick says that "being strapped to a bomb," inside of an Indycar, will teach a racecar driver to go to the limit of speed and not go over. How did a young Mears deal with the ever-present factory of fear and develop the uncanny ability to walk a car to the edge of disaster so successfully?While his early career was pretty clean, disaster did strike Mears eventually. He admits to Dale Jr. and Mike that the horrific crash at San Air in Canada that left his feet shattered, was caused by driver error. Mears survived the crash but endured through most of his career feeling the pain caused by the incident. Mears became a four-time Indy 500 Champion, a feat only accomplished by three other drivers in the 104th running of the world's most famous race. But during some of those wins, Mears viewed Indy as just another race. It wasn't until later in his racing life, that he learned to appreciate what Indianapolis truly meant.Out of a curiosity created by filming the tv show "Lost Speedways" Mike Davis inquires about Rick Mears' take on the USAC / CART split in 1979. This question leads to Mears revealing that he had once tested a Formula-1 car and even had a signed contract with Bernie Ecclestone. Why did Mears stay the course in American open-wheel racing rather than a move overseas to the world of F1?Mears opens up about his disastrous 1992 Indy crash and the change in his mindset that led to hanging up the helmet. While many wanted him to go for an unprecedented 5th Indy 500 win, Mears knew it was his time to walk away.OPEN SEGMENT Before Mears entered the Bojangles Studio, the DJD gang took a fresh new swing at the "Open Segment" of the show to talk about: Kyle Busch leaving his racecar on pit road and walking away to the garage at Darlington. Joey Logano's controversial last lap contact with William Byron for the win. Is Joey doing it right? How should Byron handle it moving forward? Dale Jr. and Rutledge Wood's role in the Kentucky Derby broadcast and the awkwardness of interviewing Jack Harlow and Drake. What should the "Open Segment" of the show be called anyway? ASKJR presented by XfinityHannah Newhouse serves up fan questions about: Miami's F1 Weekend Strange Things Dale has autographed. North Wilkesboro Speedway News Dale's Rich Strike moment and more! Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

They're grinding around the oval again in a familiar pattern. And too in a familiar pattern, death stalks the driver. This is a production of Dirtymo Media. But maybe it was the hot sun that day in Indianapolis that averted to so near, so close brush, which is that. Drivers all put equal chances on the starting line. Yet some seem to bear a charmed existence. I looked through the bold of pale horse. His name that sat on him was dead.

in hellfold. Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. We're back again in the Bojangles studio for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download, episode 381. I'm here with my co-host, Mike Davis. How you doing, Mike? Doing well, buddy. You had a good week?

I have. Yeah. Well, you got a lot of it left, so keep going. Keep on that trajectory. All right, Matthew and Hannah are here. We're going to have a great show for you, Asch Jr. coming up later. We got a really, really cool guest for today's show. I'm excited about this.

And this is a good get. I don't know who's responsible for this. Not me. Okay, it must have been Matthew. Matthew. Good job, Matthew. Yeah. So Rick Mears, racing legend, four-time Indy-500 winner.

The Indy-500 is later this month. So great way to be able to celebrate some of the names in the history of that sport. And we're really, really lucky to have Rick here today. I mean, when he walks in here, it's going to be pretty awesome. He'll change the room. You're going to hear the Angels sing. It's kind of an angel's course. No, seriously, Rick Mears, one of the great.

Listen, one of the greats. winner of the Indy 500, four times, three-time champion. I'm telling you, just fascinating good. It is. So pretty exciting. I know Casey over the years racing with him. Right. And so the MIR's last name, I mean, they're kind of similar in a sense to their racing family, right?

So when you think of racing families, what are some of the last names that pop into mind in that arena, in the Indie open? and wheel arena. Yeah. You got to go Unser. You got to go, um, mirrors. Yeah.

Uh, who am I making a shirt? Look at the old shirt. Foyt. Yeah. The Foyt family. Family. Oh,

you got a point. Who's Ford's famous racing? Larry Foy. Larry. Larry. Larry. Larry. Larry.

You got Larry. You have Larry Foyt and then that other. AJ's, AJ's, uh, AJ's other family that raised. Good job, Matthew. You know.

I'm excited about this and I'm sure that he's got some really, really great stories. So we're going to get to that here in a bit. Yeah, Andretti's. That's another one we forgot. Oh! Of course! Somebody's listening to this podcast calling us idiots right now for leaving out the Andretti's. Probably Brett Griffith.

Probably Brett Griffith. That's right. What an idiot. What an idiot. We got it. We got it in. Andreties. Yeah, let's do this.

This is going to be fun. You want me to just open it like that? Fire in. Just say, hey, man. It's time for, come on. whatever this segment's going to be called. I don't know. I hate open segment.

Mike's been trying to name this damn segment for years. We hate it. You know, because we originally put open segment, and it was just because you, you know, we wanted something. I don't think we, I think we should stop denying it. You like open segment? I don't hate it. It doesn't bother me.

Oh, Mike hates it and I kind of don't like it. Not that I hate it. It's like probably the least creative thing for a creative company. Well, what do you think about what's on the sheet now? Yeah. What's on the sheet? Hot takes. And I even did a cute little logo for you. So that's my problem is everything we try to come up with is going to seem forced.

It's going to seem over-creative, like, overthaw. I can't help it. Open segment. That's true. Listen, it's got to come natural. It's got to come natural. And if it doesn't come to us, that's our sign. You know what?

My favorite part of the show is, open segment. I can hear somebody saying that. Yeah? Like somebody in the listener? Why don't we let the listeners name it? Oh, call it, yeah. Give us a name for it. for this open segment.

We need it. All right, so we're going to change it up just a little bit for our open segment. And with that said, we want all of you listeners to help us come up with a name for this segment. So while you're listening, be thinking about that. But Hannah has kind of been paying attention to everything going on in the sport, as all of us have. But she's going to tee us up on some of the topics I think that our listeners want us to discuss. All right. Let's hear it.

Let's try it. Yeah, and this weekend, more so than anything, there was a lot of racing. going on across the country, including that with four legs, but we'll get to that here in a minute. So we'll start off with everything that kind of happened at Darlington. First and foremost, what happened with Kyle Bush and just deciding that maybe Pitt Road was going to be the final spot for his car there. I know. I saw some people making a big deal out of where he parked his car on pit road. But if everybody's kind of paid attention to the next-gen car and the toe links and how fragile those things are, they're little toothpicks, I suppose, because, you know,

every time anybody bumps a tire into something or hits a wall or whatever. It's either whatever corner of the car, they all have these little toe links on them and they break. And the cars go crazy. During the Daytona, the best example of this really for me is the Daytona 500 coming down to the finish. Everybody's kind of moving and blocking and getting crazy. And Blaney gets into the fence. And his car, it was like the steering wheel came off. The thing just started going all over the place.

Like he had no control over it because once a toe link breaks, it starts, it's like a, it's like a tie rod. The tires just start turning whichever direction they want. You're no longer steering the car. And his car went all over the place, bounced into other cars, back into the fence, back into, I mean, when Joey Logano, Italadega broke a toe link. He got turned into the fence, breaks the toe link. And instead of being able to really kind of drive the car and keep it up against the wall, it steers back down in front of traffic. and everybody piles into it. So I'm saying all this is to,

we don't know really how badly damaged Kyle's car was. Maybe he knew that he was not going to be able to make the turn into the garage without doing a seven point turn. And so he decided just to leave it right there and get out. And I don't see, I mean, I feel like big freaking deal, he parked his car on pit road and got out. Y'all all want to make it like everything, every time, You don't know that.

Y'all all want to make it like... You don't know that. We haven't said anything about it. Well, I see your face. What the heck? I know you. What am I going to say? He has a track record of being...

I'm saying, you might be right, actually. He might be right. He has a track record of doing things, doing some, making the bad choices. That's an interesting observation. Maybe there's something to that. I don't know. I think that absolutely he could have tried to get his car into the garage, but he decided that I'm going to have to make a lot,

back up turn, back up turn to get the, because he maybe had one tire that wasn't cooperating, a tow link that was broken, and decided, you know, I'm not going to do that. Somebody else's problem. In the most Kyle Bush way possible, right? I mean, listen, I don't think it's any

any crazier than anything else he's ever done. I agree with that. This is kind of the norm in my opinion. I'm kind of used to. This doesn't affect me. This doesn't bother me. It's, well, you come to expect it. You've come to expect it. That's right.

And so, listen, I'm no driver, but neither is 99% of people that watch races every weekend. So, like, you would know you've driven the car. I don't know anything about the car. When the suspension breaks, how you turn it. It just seems that he didn't even try. Right. And he also didn't really explain himself when he got out. And I think that there is, you know, sort of an expectation that if something is wrong

and you're doing something that seems unusual, like park your car right there at the entrance and get out and go right to the transporter. or somebody at least needs an explanation in that scenario. Because of how disruptive that is? How disruptive it is? It's affecting the – who was in the pit stall, right? Was it the 24? Byron, yes.

Byron. I mean, like, yeah. I mean, like, listen, it's like you tell your kids, you know, there was a better way to do it. And you seem to say that a lot with Kyle Bush. Like, there was a better way to do that. Now, I appreciate Kyle for all that he is, but I'm just saying. Clint Boyer's reaction was everybody's reaction. He's like, oh, I don't like that.

I don't like that. I mean, Clint Boyer knows he's driven the car. So, like, you know, your gut reaction is, wait a second. That's not right. All right. You don't even look like you're making an effort to try to make it right. Here's my, here's the thing. All right.

Here's why I feel the way I feel. It doesn't bother me. I mean, of course, parking your car in the middle of pit road is not good, but it's because Kyle Bush did it, that it doesn't bother me. He does these things, and this is the way Kyle is. And I'll be honest, everybody. has let him off the hook his entire career in all of the moments when he has been blatantly obnoxious or made bad decisions,

I'd say 90% of the time he gets a pass because all he's passionate. All he hates to lose. You know, he's blown. How many post-race interviews has he blown off? Right. Disappeared. Right. I mean.

Can I ask you a question, though, seriously? No. No. I'm not done. You're going to interrupt me right in the middle of my point. So I think that why are we all in an uproar over this? He has, we have put, we have accepted this for all these years. Why are we all of a sudden?

What the hell, Kyle? How can you do that, Kyle? Maybe because they want to hold him accountable finally. Finally? No, you don't get to. Why? Calls. You made all these passes.

You don't get to change your mind. Of course. No. Yeah. I don't think so. I do. But go ahead. Look, your points what they?

I mean, listen. You can't. People have let him get away with that all his life. Okay, so does that make it right now? You are married to the decisions that you made over the years of letting this activity happen and allowing it to happen and not holding somebody accountable for it. You cannot make that change this late in the game and start deciding, oh, now we're going to, now we're going to put his feet to the fire. We're going to make him understand how silly this was. Wouldn't you say, though, that his brother, Kurt Bush,

had sort of a reckless abandonment on decisions he was making and then it finally caught up to him and finally somebody... It wasn't nobody holding him accountable. It was the reality of his situation that's changed Kurt Bush. It was the reality of losing his ride, being at the bottom of the bottom, having to drive some of the worst cars in the garage. It wasn't anyone in the media or journalist. It wasn't me.

It wasn't you. that turned Kurt Busch around? It was his boss. You got a name? Penske. Fired him. You know, people that fire him. Rouse fired him.

They finally fired him. I mean, like, literally the people that are responsible for the behavior is the people that pay him. All right. Right? Well, then they're... So, like, if, you're like,

I have no accountability over Kyle Bush. I'm entertained by it. I can be entertained by that. You can. And I can have opinions of it, but ultimately, like, thing continues as long as that he you know i think though that the um i guess my point is is that the i feel like that the media and that's a big word like that's a broad stroke right i feel

like that they have some responsibility all the time in whether people are held accountable for whatever right and i think for kyle a lot of times when he would do things he got a pass or you know majority of the media would give him a pass and say, man, you know, he's just passion. He just hasten to lose. And that will really, you know, you can't fault a guy for being so emotional. So I don't see what the big uproar is over this. It's what he is. It's what he does.

And big deal. Well, there may be no up for because he's right. I mean, it certainly could be right. The optics might not have been right, but the optics never really are with him. But I don't know. his NASCAR, you know, rendered a decision on whether he did right or wrong. Like, maybe his suspension did not let him turn that corner and they, maybe that's it. I was going to say, he did say in a post race interview on radio that that toe link was broken

so he couldn't turn. But I think some of the amplification of like why people are really magnifying this is because he's not signed and he doesn't have Mars. So I think a lot of that was, how are you going to get a contract? How are you going to get a sponsor? That's how you act. And like you said, they're just now holding him accountable. It's like, you guys know this is how he is.

That's the way I feel. Y'all know this is him. Why are y'all so? Why is everybody so surprised? I think that the toe link was broke. He's going to have to do this kind of back and forth, back and forth to get the thing in there. And he's like, screw it.

I'm not doing that. I would have probably done the same thing. I got you. Instead of sitting there and do this little dance with the car for five minutes in the middle of Pitt Road in front of everyone. I would have just said, y'all figure this out. This is the toe link. It's annoying that they'd be.

break and the cars go ape shi-h-h-or-you-can't drive them, that's annoying. And as a driver, it's a sign of frustration. And in my opinion, like, if I'm Kyle Bush and I get out of my, I'm getting out of my car basically to say, this is a NASCAR problem. This car is now a NASCAR problem because this damn tow link can't put up with much. Yeah. It can't handle, you know, what our old cars could handle. you know, you could bend a tie rod and knock the toe out,

but this toe link just snaps. It doesn't bend or twist or deform in such a way where the car is still controllable and drivable and where you could get to the garage. The other thing that you mentioned, Hannah, about Kyle's deal, I think that there is a bunch going on that we don't know about in terms of the discussions about his potential new salary. how much interest there is, how long term that might be,

what position gives is in to be able to even give him this deal without a full-time sponsor. Where is that conversation at with the partners they're talking to, the potential partners? We don't know any of that. That might be going really smooth. That might be going terribly bad. That might be very frustrating for Kyle.

It might be part of what we've seen in his attitude over the past couple weeks. He's been very, very, kind of short and annoyed. He's no patience, right? Giving these little sound bites. He gives a sound bite. He goes, you know, they ask him, you know, what happens? He goes, wait, bye. Right?

And then he goes, and then everybody writes about that. And then he goes, you know, makes his shirt and says clickbait. It's like, wait, man, you can't have both ways. He's like, you said something quite profound. And you can't say that that's clickbait. You create you, the one that said it. You are the clickbait. You are the one that made it clickbait.

You're the bait. You are why we click. So I don't get it. But that was funny. That was hilarious. Right. Is that, yeah. So anyhow.

So there was even more from Darlington. Sorry, Matthew. Matthew, you've been patient. Matthew, you have been so patient. And I want to give you your opportunity to talk. I just wanted to ask a question. That's all. Hearing you say that, I want to know.

So you think he wasn't lying. It had nothing to do with, hold on. It had nothing to do with September. him pulling to the same spot going through the cones and getting a fine. None of that was... He left it in the same spot. I'm just asking. I don't think so.

I don't think that any of that was on his mind. It was coincidental. Okay. And I believe that he is not that... With everything happening in his world, I don't think that he... I don't think that was at the front of his mind. Like, man, you know what?

I'm going to get their ass for that shit last year. Right. Now, he's got a whole lot more... going on in his life and that was the last thing. I don't think that was even entered his mind. Me neither. So some of the other stuff too also, you know, lots of drama came out of Darlington, including that of the Byron Lugano starting with essentially what Byron did first, supposedly, to Joey, and then Joey returning that favor on the last lap for the win. I mean, do you feel like that aggression is justified? I mean, well, I think that, you know, that kind of finish gets people talking

contact and aggression it's always a good thing it's great for business right or wrong whether you agree with what happened or not I think the more of that the better a lot of people are drawing comparisons with what Joey did and dad

a lot of people are going well how can you be outraged when this was celebrated at one point right you know I think the little bit there's there's some differences between Joey's style and dad's mics so dad didn't really dad wasn't particular about what lap it was

he might run over your ass a lap 50 or one or one as you learned at Marlville that's right at Bristol at time or Bristol yeah you know but and Joey you know he could you know he he gets out and you know

smiles and and I think if Joey would get out and say hey man I'm here kick ass I'm sorry sorry it was you William but whoever is, you know, whatever it takes. You were next in line. Yeah, you were next. You were between me and the trophy.

And on it, right? Right. Outright freaking own it. Because it's who he is. This isn't, he can't get out of this car at the end of that race and go, whoops, my bad. Ah, I misjudged that. Oopsies.

We've seen that so many times from him that he needs to just own it and say, hey, I'm an aggressive racer. And when I, if we're coming in on the last, slap the checker flag is in the trophies right there by god whatever it takes you better come to expect it right and so i think that he could do that a little bit but he's 31 years old i can't believe how young he is when i see the age of of the winning driver because i get an email from from uh about with stats and stuff to prepare for my job but you know cobblish and dene hamilton all these guys are getting up there and it's like joey's not getting older i mean

I feel like to me Joey's been in this game for 15 years. Forever. Forever. But he's just 31 years old. And if you look at dad, when he was 31 years old, he was just starting his rampage through the garage. I mean, he literally didn't get into the cup racing until his late 20s. And so Joey is still young, raw, aggressive. There's going to be more of this if he's ever in that situation again, which he will be.

And so, you know, I feel like that this is just what we need to expect. It's how he's going to drive. And the argument against it is that we saw Kurt Bush and Ricky Craven kind of basically give us the best case scenario of racing it out in the most aggressive way at Darlington years ago. There's this iconic, almost one of, maybe celebrated as one of the best finishes in the history of the sport. And so that goes up against, that's absolutely 180 degrees from what Joey did. Joey just went in there and popped him, sent him into the fence and went on. And so I wish that we could have gotten that type of a result. But Joey talks about coming off a turn or two, getting squeezed into the fence.

And if you watch that part of the lap, I know that William gave him, William didn't just disregard him blatantly and fence him off of two. Right. William was racing hard. It ended up squeezing Ligano a little bit. It's good racing. Yeah. Right. But the problem, I guess, put your, so let's all climb in Joey's car, all right?

We're all now driving Joey's car. You've got its helmet on. You've been in this sport for how many years. You've been pushed around. You got let go by Gibbs. You get run over by Harvick and a few other guys getting taught a lesson over, you throughout, you know, throughout your career. And you're kind of trying to shake off this sliced bread moniker that somebody gave to you.

That wasn't a self-opposed nickname. He was basically heralded as this next great thing, right? So you got all that. You're trying to shed all that, right? And you've raised, you've become a champion, you've made it, you put your career back together at Penske. And here you are coming off turn two. and you got this

young driver with talent, multi-time winner this year, squeeze you into the wall, off two, right? There's a switch that flips in your brain and nothing matters except being able to get back to that driver and prove to him that

you aren't going to get squeezed into the fence. And next time, you know, if you're going to race me, you're not going to squeeze my ass into the wall. And especially when that driver's younger, that really pisses you off. When it's another veteran, somebody that you came in with,

you get out, you might take that a little bit better. And you're still mad, but you're going to get out and go, dude, you know, we came in together, we were at the same age. You understand the etiquette and the respect and everything you've been here,

just like me. I don't want that. I don't want you racing me that way. but when it's a young guy, a switch flips in your head and you're like, it's now your job, your responsibility to go send that kid a message.

It doesn't make what he did right, but it kind of explains to me why he was, why he over did it, right? Why he didn't go in there and just edge him out of the way or racing the same, you know,

racing the way we saw Kurt Bush and Craven, right? He just pounded him into the fence. I think it was because he's like, if that's what it's going to be, I'm going to end this right now. To your original point, if he would have just said that, then I almost would be able to give him grace on that. But it's not what he said. I raised him the way he chose to race me. False. That is not how it happened.

That was not how he raised you. So this is the thing. So Joey, the switch flips when he gets squeezed off the two. He goes down in the corner and he sends the young kid into the wall and gives him. him sends him a message, right? Joey needs to get out of the car and say exactly that. Hey, squeeze me in the wall. I ain't going to get race like that.

If he's going to brace me going forward, he's going to have to do a little bit better job or he's going to get the same thing in return every time. Next time he's in that situation, he's going to have to remember that I'm going to take him out next time he squeezes me. Something like that. You know, it's like, okay,

he's shown his hand, this is who he is. That's what you expect. But don't sit there and make us believe that those two incidents were the same. They were not. same. Absolutely. And William Byron should punt him into the next century in Kansas.

And he might. You know, I think William Byron next time he gets around him is, it'll be interesting. We never seen William be put in his situation. What kind of driver is William Byron? I know True X ain't going to appreciate this, but when Truex gets roughed up, he chooses to race to pass the guy cleanly the next time he's around him, right? and I'll say, hey, Martin, why didn't you rough him up? I wanted to prove to him that I don't need to rough him up, right?

I don't race that way. I race clean, right? And so, now, you know, Martin did get a little rough here a couple weeks ago with Chastain. Right. It was so fun to watch. Yeah. I love it. So I guess I'm curious, like, William, what kind of, you know, Williams, he's this sort of all-American, happy-go-lucky persona.

What will he do next time he's in that position? I'm sure he's getting tons of advice from Jeff Gordon and everybody over at Hendrick about, hey, man, next time you're around that car, this is what you do? What are they telling him? What is he going to do? What is he going to choose when he's in that moment? Jeff said it. Jeff said he owes him one.

Yeah. So I think it'll be worth watching to see, okay, this is who William is. We're going to see a new side of him. because I don't think I've ever seen William really be in a situation where he's felt wronged or guys run him over and he's had to sort of stand his ground. If he doesn't do something, I don't know what that is, but if he doesn't do something, that's a sign to every other driver in the garage that Williams is a pushover. Am I right?

Yeah, that's what you... Hey man, he got punted sitting in the wall and he did nothing about it. Right. You know, so I don't know. It's a tough situation that Williams in because I hate to be forced into a situation. I hated, personally, to be forced to do something to prove that, hey, I'm not a pushover. Because, damn, the last thing you want to do is go run over a guy in a different race, just to prove your point. It's extra work.

It's just extra work that you really just don't feel like fooling with, but you got to. It reminds me of Richmond back in 2004 when Kyle sent you. 2008. 2008. You're right. 2008. He wrecks me. He sent you and then you sent him back. I had the next good opportunity I got and I waited for it and it was at the next Richmond race. And I was right on his bumper and I'm like, hmm, it's now or never.

I mean, this is, if I don't do it and choose this moment, which is the perfect moment, then I've passed. And then I've passed. I don't get a chance to try to wreck him later. And so even if we're in another situation, if you pass on that first, perfect chance, that's, you're a pushover. So I almost felt like I had to wreck him in that moment, getting down into turn one. And I feel like that William's going to have that same decision or the same choice to be made at some point in the future with Joey.

So I will say, man, I know that the 24 hits the wall and did the toe link break on the right rear because he dropped like eight spots in a lap. I don't know. And he gets out of the car. Well, he gets out of the car, and he says, man, he didn't even let us finish. So I think it did break his car. That's another problem. That is a problem of the many problems I have with this whole way this all played out, right?

If a guy squeezes you in the wall and you're still fast enough to be able to get back to him, you cannot end his race. Like, Joey had no right to end the 24's day. Joey's blatant disregard for allowing him. his competitor to finish is a bit of is a point of frustration for me and when you could you know when byron gets out of the car and says you know guy all right i get it i think barren's i think what i was getting from byron he wasn't saying these words was all right i understand getting into me i understand being frustrated or giving you know moving me out of the way byron has been aggressive

before with his car. I mean, I think at Nashville, he moved Nassie to get by him to win the race of the night before. So I think what, when Byron said, he didn't even let us finish. That is so, I felt that. I felt that. Because you, you know, if you're going to be aggressive and you're going to have some contact, keep it at that. and don't take it, don't put me out of the race.

Don't spin me out or like at least let me get second, third, whatever. If you're going to knock me out of the way, at least let me get a decent result out of this. I think that was something that bothered me. And I seen that somewhere else earlier this year. There was a bit of a back and forth between drivers where they got together on the last corner. And you want to see, okay, there was contact. You got one guy wins. and then the other guy ends up like 18.

Oh, it was a freaking dirt Bristol. Bristol, that's right. Yeah, so Brisco goes down in the corner. He just has no chance, right? And he admitted he's like I was going to spin out. I was spinning out. If Tyler wasn't there, I was wrecked. But he wrecks himself, Tyler.

Tyler is able to come across the finish line, but Briscoe ends up 18th or 22nd or something. And, God, that's frustrating. They're both going down in the last corner side, you know, first and second and you okay get aggressive beat slide bang do whatever but damn at least get across the finish line

so that to me is a problem and I think William has every that gives William every right to go settle to score however he wants I think going forward to Joe Legano it's not if this is

who you are it is who you are on it when you get out of car on it say whatever's between me and the the checker flag is a problem. Right. Right. And that's how I'm going to handle it.

Yeah, a lot to unpack with Byron and Ligonah. Just from Darlington as a whole. But we've got F1 to still cover. We're going to cover that a little bit later. You got the chance to go to the Kentucky Derby this past weekend, you know, hung out with Rutledge, which was super cool. The Johnsons were there. How was that experience as a whole?

It was a lot of fun. So usually for these type of deals with the Derby and the Indy 500 or so forth, I'm in there a day ahead of time because Rupp went through all the rehearsal for the show on Saturday. And that helps me sort of prepare. I missed rehearsals, so I didn't get there until Sunday morning, so I had no idea really what we were doing and where we were going or what was happening. So that was a little unnerving. Rutt's really great about, you know, hey, man, he'll sit down with you and say,

hey, this is how this hits going to go, and we're going to go up in the spires, and this is what they expect us to do and what we're trying to understand. You know, they wanted me, they asked me to wear this helmet cam, which I really didn't want to wear. Yeah. Yeah, that was not fun, but, and that's kind of Ruts deal. Right. And so I was a little, I didn't enjoy that, but. I didn't enjoy watching it.

Oh. I don't like it when they use you that way. Yeah, I don't like being used that way either. But, you know, I was trying to be a company man and just, you know, instead of, you know, I show up on Sunday. I didn't do the rehearsal. I kind of came in last minute. I was trying not to be a problem, right? And so anyways, we, you know, we did our work and kind of bounced around around the track.

It was wild and crazy. It's a hell of a, it's a chaotic scene, especially down in the infield. It's just people everywhere. And just, just. I mean, there's lines and lines of people's trying to take bets, trying to get drinks, trying to use the bathroom. It's chaos in the infield. And so, yeah, we did, we had fun, and it was a pretty, I felt like it was a pretty good deal.

So I felt like, for whatever reason, the couple years ago that I did the Derby seemed to go smoother. and I think it was just because I was there to prepare and go through the rehearsal and all that. But Sunday was just a blur, man. We were bouncing from one spot to the next. We ended up, I was really nervous because they told us beforehand that we were probably going to interview Jack and Drake. Jack Harlow. I like a lot of Drake's music, so it's going to be pretty cool to interview him. And I, they kept saying over the 24th.

four hour period leading up to the moment where we actually interview them that, man, it might happen, might not happen. We can't get them to confirm. We don't know whether it's going to work. We don't know that it's going to happen. It might happen. It might happen. It's off.

It's off. It's off. We're not doing it. We're doing it. It's off. We're doing it. This happened like, you know, 30 times. To the point to where right before we were doing it, right before we're getting ready to do it,

basically we're standing there. So we were supposed to have Jack in the speaking. easy. So he wasn't there. So we did the speak easy bit, just me and rut. And okay, that's no problem. They were there shooting a music video. They're on their own agenda.

We're like way down the list of priorities for them. And so we end up going to where they were in the infield and just standing there waiting. And my producer and the people that are with us are like, we're just going to wait. until they'll allow us to interview them. And so I was like, well, have they agreed to this? No, they haven't agreed to do an interview. Oh, my gosh. So we just stood there.

And you don't even know what's going to happen. I don't know if it's going to happen or not. Good grief. We've got, we're going to, we have one more hit left over at the, over at the victory area, victory lane or whatever, you know, where the horse and all goes after the race, and we're going to make our pick. We're right before the race starts everybody and all the talent makes a pick. So we had that in our hands.

heads and we knew exactly what we were going to do but in between right before that we're standing there we're standing there waiting like hey okay I guess we're going to wait and see if they'll let us interview them our our producer is like walking up into their into their shoot for their music video like hey we'd like to get this done and so we walk in there and eventually it happened and uh you know I can only imagine right there stop right there I can only imagine all the places you wish you were except that place right there because you walking into somebody else's work. Yeah. It's not something I would imagine you're comfortable with. Yeah, it felt like we were kind of

bothering their process and what they were trying to accomplish and what they were there to do. And I was like, look, man, this isn't that, we don't have to do this. This can not happen and I'm okay with it. Right. And let's just go. This is a hill we die on right here. Yeah. Let's just go do the things that we know we got to do and get the hell out of here. But anyways, it got, we did it. It went good. Did it?

Because, like, it seems so awkward. Of course it was awkward. He was hammered. Yeah, I guess. Drake was hammered. Well, he wasn't the only one at the Kentucky Derby that was drunk in that moment. I mean, this is the only one on live television, though, I think was doing it. So, okay.

I thought he handled it pretty well. I couldn't tell he was that drunk. I thought you and Rut handled it well. Like, that, Rut actually showed. how good he is, in my opinion. So when we walked out of there, when we walked out of there, while we're doing the interview,

we're at Kentucky Derby interviewing, you know, Jack and Drake, it's a, and like I say, it was clunky and awkward and very kind of uncomfortable to try to get ourselves into that situation, right? So I was, I was not in a space mentally that this,

that I could have, you know, I was, I was not in a good place. and uh rut on the other hand was lighting up in his element he was where he

he was he was this is exactly what he wanted to be doing he loves chaos yes yeah and so I was standing there watching him going back and forth with Drake and he's he's right in there I was like blown away and so I'm watching

and we get done we walk out of there and we walk on we're walking down through the infield and we stopped for a minute to wait on some people. And I grabbed rut and I said, hey, I said, that thing back there, I was like, I got to tell you, man, I don't know that many people that could have handled that and done it as well as you did. But also, you were, you were, you were coming to life. Like, not only, he wasn't sitting there, like, trying to patch this together and just get it over with it. Right.

He was into it. He wanted it to continue. Right. He was loving the banter, right? And, you know, he gets a hard time because of his suit or, you know, his sort of his approach to his work. I'll be honest with you. We walked around that infield all day long. I saw six or seven other suits.

just like his. Like other people wearing the same exact thing. That probably upsetting. No. Oh, no. He was, because, I mean, like, he's outlandish. He's going for that award almost. It validated his choice.

Well, yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. All right. So, I mean, there's no, there's no secret. We got some, we got some people on social media that are apparently part of the industry that weren't very happy with our clown-clowny sort of attitude.

and so that the you know meeting someone with the same suit on in the infield validated his approach and what he brought to the day all right so he's sitting there going I'm not out of place you're out of place we are I'm with my people right right I belong here look he's he's got he's got suit it's got suit everywhere we went somebody had the same damn jacket on green suit same one that's funny and uh he was i was like i was like rutt you know you go to a nascar race you ain't never going to see nobody wearing a plaid suit and here you are this is where you belong yeah and but we walked out of that interview and i really i did tell red i said i'm gonna be honest with you you he's got aspirations uh uh to be a

to be bigger. He's got places that he wants to go in his life in the entertainment industry that he shared with me. And I said, look, I said, you're absolutely made for that. And if you can go in into a situation like that and handle it as well as you did, but not only handle it that well, but also enjoy and be eager to do it. And he just was right at home in that moment. He was composed.

He kept his poise. It was the best. And that's something that I don't think most people. can do. No. And live television. Live TV. With somebody that's intoxicated and is throwing, you know, throwing stuff to,

no predictability whatsoever. And he was composed. He was right there with it. Yeah. You did too, by the way. But the only reason why I felt like I got through it was because of rut. But I understand that. And that's true, by the way.

That's true. I think that you by yourself, it would not have gone as well. It would have been awkward, terrible. Because I'm awkward. You asked a question of Drake. You were like, do y'all have a favorite horse or do you have a, you know, somebody? And of course, because it was. you know, Drake trying to make it as awkward as possible,

there was that like a half second to a second where he just looked and he didn't answer. And I'm like, oh, no, this. And then he got, and then he started laughing with Jack. And, you know, and I'm like, what just, like, everything about that was tense to me. Like, it was awkward and tense and you didn't know what was going to happen next.

But it all came out well. And then, you know, yeah, I bet you were ready to get out of there, though. It's tough. It's not exactly true, Mike, because. Okay. I was excited to meet Drake. Okay. Was there interactions with Drake beyond the interview itself?

Did you actually have a, no? So, all right, so to be fair, to help people understand, all my life, when we would go to the Daytona 500, I'll use this an example. You would know this because you were all in the middle of this. We would, we'd be at the Daytona 500 where they would always be celebrities. and they would come then NASCAR would send somebody by or run them by you and go hey this person's going to kind of be moving through the bus lot you know and there's this opportunity if Dale would like to see them or say hey and I would always say uh-uh mm-hmm that's right and it ain't it was like I was I was too nervous and scared to meet celebrities right and so I was thrilled to be able to interview and do that piece with Jack and Drake, but like to have a genuine,

like a normal conversation with them, I was going to be heading the other direction. It makes sense. Yeah. So as soon as it was over with, I got out of there. Now, Rutt's still sitting there talking.

Like, yeah, babbap-dip-de-da. They're talking about music and all this stuff and going on and on. But I don't know, man. Jack was really cool. He actually, me and Jack did have a little,

a short, very brief conversation out. of the interview. Super cool. Happy to have us there. I didn't get a chance to talk to Drake outside of the interview. I was happy with just the opportunity to do what we did. The race was amazing.

The race was great. So we get out of there. We go do our pick and we finish our work. And then I run across the racetrack and go to where Amy is. My wife took a friend, Jill. They're both upstairs on a balcony with Jimmy Johnson and Shanney. and so I joined them for the race I couldn't really see the race

it's very crowded right so you just kind of everybody runs to the rail so now if you aren't you kind of see in bits and pieces so I didn't exactly see how that race played out Amy had put a little money on some horses so we were just kind of paying attention to where they were

and I found out about you know the upset and all that after the fact and then saw some replays and, man, what an incredible, what an incredible finish. But Jimmy was great. We had a lot of fun with him, and me and Rudd are going to go work the Indy 500, a little bit closer to my element, motor sports, so that would be fun.

And I'll be there early a couple days ahead of time so I can really get into the groove and do the rehearsals and all that stuff so that I work on race days, spot on and ready to go. It was a nice job by you guys. Good stuff. Yeah. did not have you, rut, Jack Harlow, and Drake on my Twitter timeline. That was not on my bingo card for Sunday.

I was like, what is happening? All right, I'm super excited to have Ally as a partner on this show, and they're going to help bring our guest segment to you guys every week. Allies are important in your life, Mike. And, you know, whether it's in your personal life or your career, it's great to have allies. and we've got a great one coming into the studio today. Rick Mears, Racing Legend, Rick Mears,

four-time winner, the Indy-500, Mike. Not only that, I mean, he won his fourth Indy-5-90-91 and then retired after the 92 season, which, you know, I know a string of crashes happen, but, like, how long could he be gone? I can't wait to ask him about that stuff. Yeah, it's going to be fun to talk about his life and everything in it,

and leading up to the Indy-500 later on this month, it's great to be able to celebrate open-wheel and bring a little bit of that flare to the room. so let's get Rick Mears to the table on the Dale Jr. Download. The headlines this week are of the consequences of speed, and it has been indeed a very difficult week. This is Rick Mears in a monumental track. How do you like this?

Rick Mears, 9-19 on the time, 224.2.21 miles. There's a bad fuel spill. Then there's fire. It's hard to see because the fuel is alcohol, but it's prime. burning just the same. Mears evacuates the car. Come and take a lot. You want to let go, let go.

Lift running of this great speed classic. Rick Mears has won the aisle race. Oh man. There he is. Rick Mears, I can't believe it. I think I can say this because I'm getting up there myself, but I don't want to make, I don't want to aid you, but I was reading notes.

And so I grew up like a lot of people with you racing, right? And when I was a bit younger, and to look at the date of which you won your last race, 1991, it just doesn't seem like it's been that long ago. Does it feel that way? No, it doesn't really. I remember after I had retired from the driving part of it, and sometime down the road somebody asked me something about, you know, how long it's been since I've been in the car.

and I said, I don't know, you know, four or five years. And then I got to adding it up, and it was more like 12. You know, it just time flies. It does. It really does. It doesn't. It doesn't. Anyhow, we got the Indy 500 coming up later this month,

and so we're really lucky to have you here today to be able to celebrate an incredible month and everything that leads up to that race. I grew up in the NASCAR world, and as such a big fan of NASCAR and stock cars, I thought my entire life, no matter what anybody said, nothing was better or bigger or more important than the Daytona 500. And then I went to the Indy 500 for the first time. It blows away anything and everything I've ever witnessed personally in motorsports,

much less the sports world. The tradition throughout the morning, there's these key moments where you really feel it. and the amount of people, I don't really even, it's hard to try to explain to somebody what it's like being down in the pits or even out on the grid. You can't even see the cars. I mean, I know they're really low to the ground,

but there's so many people out there right moments before the cars crank and the drivers climb in and all that. And then you got everybody, you know, the grand stands down both sides. It's just such an insane visual. it far exceeds the Daytona 500 or anything else that I've ever witnessed in motorsports. And I just kind of want to know what that, you know, you grew up in that arena. You've seen it time and time again. Has it always felt that way?

And what is it like going today when you go to the Indy 500? No, it's always felt that way. And it's still today. You know, it feels the same way. It's just, you know, like I said, I'm a race nut. I enjoyed all of it. And it didn't matter, you know, cup cars, indie cars, sprints, may just watching, you know, if there was something on, I'd watch it, or if I had an

opportunity to go. But my path just, well, my path was really different coming out of the off-road, you know, and getting into the IndyCar the way we did. And I'd never planned on doing any of it. Never dreamed of going, I never dreamed of making a living racing. That was way out of my league, especially IndyCar. You know, there was no, I never thought about an IndyCar until about six months before I actually got in one. Again, that was way out of my league. No kidding. Yeah.

You know, I didn't have family that had run there. Right. It was just not on my radar because it was out of my league. You thought it was too far out of reach beyond? Yeah, we were just, the racing was just a hobby and, you know, fun. Dad raced in the Midwest, you know, just local dirt track and jolopies, modifies, little everything around Wichita, Kansas area. and then we moved to California when I was about five,

and he ran some races out there, and he was trying to get a lot. Why did y'all move? I think just opportunity, I guess. I don't even know the real detail on it, but I think just opportunity, wanting to get out of Kansas area, and I think we had some relatives that had gone to California. How old were you then?

I was about five. Okay. I remember hardly nothing of Wichita. For sure. So basically I grew up in California. That was home. Dad was trying to start a business and, you know. What was the business?

Just the construction. He bought a little skip loader, scraper, dump truck, and started working, you know. And, you know, daylight to dark seven days a week. And he was racing too, just the local tracks, short tracks. And finally, I think the last race he ran, he, he was quick. He was quick and just wrong place, wrong time, you know. But I think he won the day. set fast time, won the 100-lap main event, and won 60 bucks to split with his owner.

So, funny, he says, you know, if I hit the wall and break an arm, you know, can't operate the tractor, I can't put food on the table, he said, it's not worth it. And he got totally out of it. We got away from racing altogether. And then my brother and I kind of ended up working our way back into it and then eventually dragging him back into it just, but just fun stuff that we were doing for family recreation. What kind of cars did you first start driving? Actually, start on motorcycles.

Oh, really? Where did you go to do this? How did you get your first bike? Just right around. Mom and dad had a couple bikes when we were really little. You know, my brother would jump on with my dad and I'd jump on with my mom and we'd go for rides up in the hills on pavement, you know, just pavement rides. Okay. And we were really little.

And then, you know, there was always a motorcycle around. And then finally when I was, you know, my brother started racing go-carts. And I think I was about eight at the time, and I ran a couple go-kart races. What type of go-karts and tracks? Just really it was kind of a mixture of everything. There was no set class. It was just a little local deal. Okay.

And, you know, the old MacSix and McCullough, you know, engines, Mac 1, Macs, Macsix. Then there was a couple of water-cooled boat motor. You know, there was a little everything. but only ran it a couple times and then got out of it but we started Dad bought me a little 50 C C2 Tatsu

you know motorcycle and we'd start riding out in the foothills and it was fairly close to the house we could kind of take the back roads out of town and go out and play around in the foothills and that's all we did just it was just for fun and

and eventually I started pressing them to race the motorcycles so I was wanting to do some of the TTIs racing, one of the local tracks there. And they kept saying no, saying no, and then eventually, you know, dad matter of fact, I got a ticket,

I was on a motorcycle, I had my permit, and I just got my permit, and I was out, I saw a fire truck go by one night, and I was out in the driveway working on the bike, and so I jumped on a bike and followed it, just see where the fire was. You got to. Yeah, right. And when it got to where the fire was, there was a

policeman standing there directing traffic, And I was just idling along in the traffic, right? And when I got two avi motioned me over and gave me a ticket for two loud of pipes. Bag up. Oh, wow. So, you know, I thought, first of all, I just kind of took off. I mean, I just got in my permit. I just kind of disappeared from the house.

And then I get a ticket, and I figured Dad's going to kill me, you know. That's the end of the career. Yeah. And, you know, they hadn't let me. They said no to the racing at that point all the way up to then. And so finally I got back to the house and what am I going to do here? here, you know, and walked in to see what he was going to do, told him I got a ticket, and he sits there, he kind of looks at me for a little bit, and he says, you still want to race?

And I said, well, yeah. He said, all right, go ahead. And I think he thought, I think he thought, you know, I'm getting to that age, maybe he gets me off the street. Yeah. And it lets me go play a little bit like that. I'll do less of it on the street, you know. And that's the only thing I could think of that the reason he did it. But so he ended up, you know, took mom's little 160 street bike and Honda and stripped it down and made a TT bike out of it and started racing. And it just snowballed from there. So how was the success?

It was good, you know, just local stuff. We ran well. Won some races and just, you know, kind of in the hunt. But, and I started, you know, there was one guy I chased. I ran second to him so many times. and I couldn't figure out why. And I was doing everything I could do to this Honda, this 160. And he was riding a 200 bull taco, a two-stroke.

And so finally I got an opportunity to buy an old, an old-old 200-bolt-taco. And the frame was cracked. I mean, it was an oldie. And got it run, and the first time I wrote it down the street, I thought, no, no wonder I haven't beat him, you know, compared to back then the four-strokes versus a two-stroke. And so I started racing that a little bit. But then at one point, we also started playing with the dune buggies over at the coast.

Dad had built a little cabin over at Morrill Bay. And we'd go over there every weekend and work on that place. And it was real close to some dunes. And the dune buggy stuff was starting up. Had no flathead forward in a Model A frame, you know, slid all the way to the back, you know, direct to the transmission rear end, no drive line, just solid mount rear in. get the weight back and just went out and played and then the Volkswagen stuff started happening.

At that time I was racing different things. I was running desert TT, you know, motocross, 250 class, you know, different 125 class. And I started to get some opportunities. A guy had me come out and did a test ride on a speedway bike. And then one of the... What was that like? That was fun. You know, on the gas and sideways, you know, that's all you do. How old were you then? I was probably about, I must have been about 16. Goodness gracious. Did you have a speedway bike?

16, 70, no. No, I did that ride on it. And then around that same time, I was working at a, my first job was working at a Honda motorcycle shop. And I was still in school. And down the street there was a BSA shop. And the guy that owned the BSA shop had a production road race bike. That's when the three-cylinder BSAs came out,

rocket, 750s or whatever they were, they were called. And he had one of those set up for the production class. And he wanted to know if I'd do a test right over at Willow Springs. So I went over and did a test on that, and it all worked out well. But mom saw that progression, and this was her idea, which I didn't know at the time, but she was seeing where it was going. and she was always afraid I was going to get hurt on a bike. So we had moved into the Volkswagen's.

That's when they were starting up in the dunes. And my dad had bought one of those Myers-Manks glass-bodied for a Volkswagen dune bugging. We had built that and were playing over in the sand. And so mom, it was her idea trying to get me off, but she wanted me in something with a roll cage and a seatbelt. So dad had heard about these buggies racing at Ascot Park, sprint buggies they called them. And they basically raced at Ascot in the infield part of the half mile and went into the infield

and ran like the motorcycle TT track with a jump in it. So he said, let's go down and watch those run. So we drove to L.A. went down and watched him run. And on the way back, and again, I didn't know it was mom's idea at the time. But on the way back, dad says, hey, what do you think about racing one of those? And so, that'd be great. I didn't think it ever happened. And so, you know, it was about 16.

And all of this happened in a very short period of time. So I said, well, we'll make you a deal. You give up price of motorcycles and we'll build one. Because we had the Volkswagen stuff. We'd gone down in the pits, and a guy named Don Gooth, he was the hot shot at the time and went into championships. And he was running a Funco bandito chassis. So we went down and looked at all the stuff.

and all we had news to get the frame and we had a lot of the Volkswagen stuff to build one. He said, give up racing bikes, we'll build one. He said, as long as I don't have to quit riding them, you know, I still wanted to go out and ride in the desert. I just loved the bikes. And but I quit racing him, and we built the buggy, and it just took off from there.

First of all, your dad sounds amazing. Yes. I mean, you know, most dads react to the ticket way differently, right? Well, I expect him to. Right. Your mom sounds sensible, and thank goodness you have her. Without her, you probably do some crazy things, right? Crazy than what you're doing.

So you didn't want to give up the bikes. Your dad gives you this offer, again, what an amazing dad, right? Yeah, that's the way to handle that. Well, he was a racer himself, you know, but he had gotten out of it. And this kind of let him kind of get back into it, too. He was just enjoying the whole deal. Safety inspired him, though. Right, yeah.

Safety, like you on the street, safety on the racetracks, you know, safety has influenced his decisions with you. Yes. And so I guess I'm curious, if you were winning on the bikes, how quickly did you start winning with the Volkswagen and everything else? Really fairly quick. You know, we didn't start out with the big engine. You know, obviously we had to, we didn't have the big 2180 to put in the thing at Ascot.

So, you know, because dad was financing the whole thing. We didn't know anything about sponsors. We were just having, it was stuff we did on the weekend for fun. So we went down there and I basically learned how to drive the thing. you know, my first car. And they used a turning brake in it. And I didn't realize at first, so I learned how to drive my first race car

with a turning brake. What I didn't know for a while, I used the turning brake a lot different than they did. I used it more as a locked rear end. I didn't use it to turn the car. I used it to keep the, you know, the power distributed between the tires.

Because it was all rear engine weight, and the front end was just kind of hanging around, you know. So you really drove it with, you know, the power to which wheel. And so I used it more like a diff than a turning brake. And I didn't know it until I started driving other guys' cars. And the first thing I'd do when I'd get in, I'd say, you know, how's turn break? Oh, the car steers fine.

You don't even need it. I go, wait a minute. I mean you don't need it. That's the only way they get around here, you know. And I started realizing we'd learned how to drive it different. But we won the championship back to that, the first full year. We won the championship. You know, I drove the first half a year with the 1600 against these big engines,

but it taught us how to get everything out of the car. And then when we ended getting a big engine, then we were up front right away. So we won a championship, and then for winning in the championship, we won a high jumper single-seat desert chassis from the high jumper company. And so we built that and started running Baja, you know, the desert stuff. I meant 400, Baja and Barstow on all those. I've always been fascinated by those races, you know, for somebody on this side of the country that had never really witnessed it or experienced it, it just seems, I don't know,

it just a long time ago, I was with Robbie Gordon, we were racing at Phoenix, and we had, the race was a night race on Saturday night. So Saturday morning, he said, Robbie said, hey, I got this, he had his Hummer that he raced in bought in uh oh yeah yeah i know what you're talking about yeah so he's raised he's got this hummer right and he's like hey you want to go for a ride i'll take you for a ride and i said stupid leeks said yeah and so he pulls up that morning and i jumped in it and we took off driving out of the track i'm like you know it doesn't have i don't know if this thing's got insurance or tag or anything but he takes off down the highway and we go down the highway a couple miles and we turn we just

turned into the desert and he gets on the gas and we're driving across this desert and feels like we're probably going 100, 120 mile an hour. And I don't know what we're running up on. You can't see. Yeah, you can outrun your eyes in those things. You can't see the next ditch or creek, ravine or whatever, right? And so, you know, you're just getting started and you're going to go run these events for the very first time. And I know you're in that world.

You're out there growing up around it. It's not foreign to you. But what is the mentality when you're out there racing, one of those races across the desert, as far as not really truly knowing what's coming next? Well, that's the thing. And I've got to say that, you know, I've driven a little bit of everything over my lifetime, and that is one of the most demanding forms of racing I've ever done. And I learned so much.

Everything you do, you learn things that apply to whatever you go to next. And there's a lot of relative things. but the desert you know you've got a like the Mint 400 you've got one lap it's 100 miles long and you run four laps or in Baja you've got an 800 mile lap

or a thousand miles straight shot down to the end you never get to practice a corner no right you know it's learning to read the corner as you approach it first off the motor cycle's taught me not to make mistakes because I don't like pain you know that's a good reason So they taught me to get to the end.

Yeah. You know, crash-wise. And then the desert taught me to get to the end mechanically. You know, you get outrun the car in a heartbeat. You know, it took a discipline to somebody go by you. And if I felt like I was running out of pace, you always listen to the car. A car tells you if you're hurting it. And I think, you know, a guy go by me and I think, you know, I can run him back down.

But no, you know, I've got 500 miles to go. here. You know, I can run the shocks off the thing and the tires off of it in about five miles if I want to. So the discipline to find the pace is, you know, slow enough to finish but fast enough to win. And that's the hard part in the desert. And because you go through, but it's so funny, I've told people this, you'd be out there and maybe be on a nice graded road, kind of a high-speed deal. And you learn to read, first of all, your terrain, you're always watching the mountain ranges so you know if the runoff's coming across diagonally or whatever, you know, for a series of ditches and that kind of thing.

But then also, you know, like on a road like that, you start, as you can see the corner, you watch the berm as the berm transitions, you know, if it starts early, and it's fairly soon in the corner, you know, it's a fairly high-speed long corner. You know, and the later it starts and goes away, the tighter it is. Or if you start seeing washboard, it's under braking. It's a tighter corner. Wow. So you read all these.

things as you're approaching it. And then you try to figure out how fast you can get through it and, you know, make it out the other side. It makes a lot sense to me. Well, but what's funny about it is you'll get one of those every once in a while that you just, you know, toss the thing in and you come out the other side and just right up on the berm, you just bury, I mean, you got everything out of that corner you could get, you know, and you go, yeah, there's nobody around. Nobody saw that, you know. You're out there all by yourself. Yep. And, but it just, I loved doing it. It was a lot of fun, but trying to get the most out of a corner,

the one and only time you go through it, you know. Right. And that's... What happened, I mean, imagine this happened to you, where you break in the middle of the desert? Oh, yeah. What do you end up, I mean... Well, see, back then, when I was running, there was no helicopters, there was no radios.

You're there by yourself. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you just... You'd go through a checkpoint. Your guys would know, they'd move on down to the next one, and they knew about how long it was going to be. So if I broke a quarter of the way into that stint, you know, I'm sitting there waiting and thinking, okay, now they've got to wait until the time comes that I should be there. And then they'll give me another 15 or 20 minutes in case I had a flat and fixed it myself and got going again before they ever start moving. And then once I don't show up, then they'll start backtracking off the course, going slow to try to find where I'm at.

And I could be almost all the way back at the other end. Right. You know, so there's times you, you know, you sit out there forever. In the middle of the desert. When one of those guys goes by you and you're keeping discipline, do you say to yourself, I'll see him in a ditch here in a few miles? Well, that's how I learned it quickly early on because that happened fairly soon. You know, five miles down the road, he was upside down.

Right. You know, or a corner torn off the thing and thought, okay, I did the right thing. Right. go. And that's how you learn the stuff. You know, it's all. You ran to Baja 1,000, how many times? No, the 1,000, I only ran, when I was running 1,000, it was right in a period of time that they didn't run the full stint all the way down. Yeah. They were doing a long loop. And I think I ran it twice. I don't believe I finished either one of them. The last time I ran Baja was 76. I drove Parnelli's truck. And my dad rode with me.

In the race. In the race. What was that like? It was great. It was great. And we won it. We won our class. We were in class two.

It was a two-seater. We're considered a two-seater, like the two-seat buggies, same class. If any second overall, I think a single-seat beat us overall by a little bit. But, you know, that truck was so fast. We'd get in some of those long sand washes. And I could talk about out running your eyes. You know, I remember telling us. and dad we had pre-run a lap and after this long wash you ran for quite a ways and there was all

different trails and paths down through there you know and i remember looking at this mountain range where the mountain range came down and i marked it when we got to this turnout where we got up and out of it just mentally marked it with the mountain range that's what you did you always mentally marked the the real danger spots you can't memorize it right and if you pre-run it but you mentally mark the real spots that can catch you out and little things that remind you that you're getting there to them. But the longest course I ever memorized was a 38-mile loop in Barstow. And it's because we ran it so many times. And I could sit down and close my eyes and leave the starting line and run that whole course in my head. And I don't have that good of memory. It's just because

we did it so many times, is the reason. So you don't memorize those things. But, um, It just, oh, that running that truck was, you know, I remember that I told Dad when we got down to the end, we pulled out, I said, Dad, see that? I said, Mark that, you know, and so when we started getting close, you can tell me, he said, hell, I can't see anything when you're going down through there. What are you talking about giving you a heads up? Yeah. But I think that that's the most terrifying part of it is riding shotgun. You're not in control. Yeah, yeah, that's terrible.

It's terror, yeah. I rode with Parnelli one time pre-running. That's the way I was with Robbie. I mean, Robbie's crazy as it is. Yeah. He's trying to, Dan, just to scare the hell out of me. He's trying to impress me or scare me one of the two. Right.

And I figured he was over his skis a little bit. So I was with Parnelly, when I was riding with him, I just had to keep sitting there saying, he's one of the best in the world. He's one of the best in the world. That's what I can do. You've got to put my trust in him. This way I go. This is it.

The hell of the story. All this forms of racing. Who are the most? nuts, like just crazy people. It's got to be the Baja racers, right? Even more so than motorcycles. Yeah, it's all relative. Yeah, it's all relative. You know, whoever's nuts in this class is probably nuts in the other also. You know, they're, they're, but they're, they're all different. I mean, it's, you know, obviously like when I, when I got into Indy cars and, you know, now that's, you know, you can hurt yourself.

big time. The desert, they're built to be bulletproof, you know, so safety-wise, they're pretty good, but you do, you still have so many more opportunities to get in trouble. Exactly. You know? Yeah. But it's all, but that's the whole thing. It's, that's, that is part of how you win the race, is putting all that together. And, you know, I could run, like at Lab at Barstow, you know, in 38 miles and maybe run the, and maybe run the race. the whole race and if I did my job I could count on one time how many mistakes I made. Right. And usually those weren't mistakes to crash.

It was just like I overshot a corner a little bit or something like that. It's a discipline of not making a mistake but running it on the limit without stepping over, which is what indie cars are, cup cars are. You know, it's one thing to run close to the, you know, the top speed that everybody's running. the difficult parts getting that last one or two percent. That's where it becomes difficult. And being able to run closer to that over the length of the race without stepping over it.

I always looked at it like, you know, the Indycars, everything I drove, I tried to be smooth, you know, and no mistakes. And the way I looked at, if the limits here and you're an erratic driver, you're like this, so your average is this far below the limit. And if you're smoother and now as erratic and you're more like this,

your average close to the limit is much better. And that's just kind of the way I always looked at it. And Indycars, that's what I've always said, you know, when you start talking about Andretti's and Foyts and Parnelli and Hunters and Rutherford and all these guys, to me what really made those drivers was back in their era when they were sitting in a bomb, you know, and 70 gallons of gas wrapped around them.

And if you made a mistake, it was going to be a big one. Those guys had to learn how to get the most out of it and run and as close to that limit is closer to the limit than the other guys without stepping over it. And that's what created those guys, you know. And as we've gotten the car safer and safer, now guys can kind of, they can just go out and overrun it. you know and and there's not the consequence so it's worth the backup car what you know

I remember somebody saying we were having a bad year and the Indy cars one year and guys were crashing right and left and young guys you know coming in and I remember somebody from Indy cars saying what are we going to do to keep these kids from crashing I said take the padding out of the car you know I mean it's something that simple to I mean obviously you wouldn't do that and couldn't do it but but make them feel the consequence exactly and and fear is what kept me in line. You know, I've always, they talk about fear, you know, if it scares you, you shouldn't be there. To a point, yes.

But I've always felt you need a healthy fear. That fear is what I call a healthy fear. That fear is what kept me from making mistakes because I don't like pain, you know. Plus, I didn't like the guys having to rebuild the thing and the cost and all that. But you need a little healthy fear. I've never believed you've got a crash to find the limit. I've never believed that I'll argue that from day one

I ran my whole life trying to find the limit without crashing and we were fairly successful at it you know you can find that limit without stepping over it and so I've never to me that was more of an excuse for for crashing I mean I crashed

sure I made my mistakes but, you know, I felt you didn't have to crash to find the limit. So help me understand how you went from running out through the desert and racing buggies and all that stuff to getting a chance to race a USAC car for Simpson in 76. How did that relationship come about? That all started. Simpson was probably one of the first companies. He and Parnelli, see, backing up a little bit, and I didn't do any of it for any of that reason.

We were just, I loved driving things. And if an opportunity came by, I could lead in the championship in whatever I'm in at the time. And somebody said, hey, what do you want, you want to try one of these? I'd miss a race. Yeah. And go try it. Just because I wanted to get in everything I could. I just loved driving it.

So looking back at it, you know, with hindsight, I branched out in a lot of different directions. And the racing community is like this. Well, that name kept popping up in different areas. My name did. from doing different things. And that was part of, you know, I went to Pike's Peak, and I met Hunters at Pike's Peak, Parnelli in the desert.

You know, so. You were getting a reputation. Yeah, and I had no idea. Right. You know, just give me the steering wheel. I just want to go play, you know, and that's all it was about. But Simpson was one of the first companies that you ever gave me anything, sponsor-wise.

you know, a fire suit and a helmet and was running the buggies. The ascot and I first got into it. And a fellow by name is Steve Richards, he worked for Simpson and he took care of all the off-road stuff for Bill. And he had been wanting to introduce me to Bill

and I never had met him. And finally we were to see him a show one year. In between all of this, this is, you know, in about a two-year period, he got out with the buggies and then got into Formula V and the Super V. Oh, really? And Pikes Peak, sprint buggies, all kind of at the same time in about a three, four years span.

And then got to test a 5,000 car. And that was with Simpson. But I was at the Seema Show one year, and Steve Richards and I were walking around the Seema Show. And he said, hey, Bill's here. I want you to meet him. So we were going over to meet Bill, and we were walking up, and Bill kind of had his back to us. and pretty soon he turns out and he sees us walking up. And as we're getting there, he says,

I know, don't tell me another one of those damn off-road racers. What a jerk, you know. And so we were introduced and then back to business. And another guy, Simpson's kind of head guy at the time was Fred Crow. And when I'd go to Simpson's place in L.A., like going to Ascot or whatever, need something, We'd go in there, and Fred Croix always dealt with him. Well, I went in there and talked to Fred one day, and this was after the Seema show, and Bill walked through.

I was in a waiting room, Bill walked too, and he just looked over at me, hey, out the door he went. And those were the only two times I'd seen him. And one day I was testing my Super V at Willow Springs, and we were trying to qualify to go to the runoffs in Atlanta, and the V and the Super V. the LCCA and I was over there testing and there was car testing down at the far end and it was Bill with this Berta 5,000 car he was getting ready to run the first race

at Long Beach and I'm working on my car and I hear somebody say Hey mirrors, what are you doing? I looked up and it was Bill and that's the first time I'd see him other than those two times and he, hey how you doing? You know it's like we'd known each other for 30 years.

Once you come down and look at this car so we walked down to Pet Lane and he showed me this car introduced me to the designer of it and everything. And then we went back to our testing. And I don't know, a couple weeks later, however long it was a month, I get a phone call and it was from Bill. And he says, what are you doing next wind to see?

And I said, I'm working. I was operating equipment for my dad running backhoe. And he said, can you get off work? And I said, I don't know. You know, what do you need? He said, I want you to test my 5,000 car at Willow. Yeah, I can get off work. So I went over to Will and met him over there and we did a two-day test in the 5,000 car.

And by the end of the test, I'd run a couple seconds a lap quicker than he had in it. And he said, I want to sign you up. I'd never had a contract with anybody in my life on anything, you know. And I want to sign you up to a couple of 5,000 races and or Indy car. Okay, you know, did a deal. And so I ran a couple of SCCA races in the 5,000 car. But nothing really had happened with the IndyCar and stuff. How did those races go?

Not bad. I crashed the first one. I remember the second one exactly. We were running decent, you know. The first one I crashed at Riverside had been out there in practice. We were qualified up front and went out for the start of the race. When you come out of nine and you went up over the rise at the start finish line. Yep.

I started on the front row. And I went over that rise, the thing just went backwards, and I'm looking at everybody coming out. Oh, no. This is taking the green, right? Everybody missed me, and we were basically out of it, and we got to look, and they had raised her lord the rear links. I was still fighting understere in the thing.

The rear links were it hooked onto the back of the chassis. And what had done had gotten that link close to the headers, because I was scratching my head thinking, I've been through here, I don't know how many times. What the hell did I do wrong, you know? And so I was beating myself up about it. And I got a call a couple days later from Billy. He said, we found what happened.

And when I went forward with that rise, then the car raised, the headers came up and hit underneath those links and lifted the rear wheels off the ground, basically. Unloaded the thing. And that's why I went backwards. And so I never minded if I know what happened. Sure. You know. And anyway, so did a couple of those, and I was still playing with it.

with the V and Super V. And then Bill decided he was going to sell one of his Indy cars. He wanted to sell it. And he worked on USAC to get my foot in the door there to run at Ontario in that car. And a fellow by the name of our Sue Guy was buying the car from him. And it was like a four or five-year-old Greenie Eagle, Hoffie. And so he talked him in to let me run. And he told Sue Guy, he said,

I'll sell you the car under one condition if you let Mears drive it at Ontario. Well, that was Bill being smart. He didn't know about this punk kid out of the desert, putting him in his expensive race car and maybe wadden it up the first turn or whatever. So this way, he was selling, he said, you let Mears drive it,

and then after the race, if you guys are happy, you go down the road together, and if not, you go your separate ways. So that's how that first race came about. Bill got it all done, and then qualified. I had mid-pack, finished eighth, I think it was. And we were both happy, so we went down the road together.

So your first race, are you aware of the names that are in the field? Oh, yeah. Yeah, are you, you know, starstruck or taken aback, I guess, by being around that competition? Sure, yeah. I mean, but really my first race in anything I did, the first motorcycle race, the first buggy race. First race in anything I did was almost the easiest

because there was no expectations on myself. Yeah. You know, I'm just going to go out there and do my thing and have fun. Yeah. You know, and then the pressure starts after that. You know, okay, I finished eighth. Next one I got to go eighth or better. You know, it's just like driving the car every time you go through the corner.

How do I get, you know, you're logging everything as you go through and how do I get to what corrections do I make to get through this corner better next time. Do you realize that you're at the point in your life, do you realize, like, how far you came? Not really. It just seemed like that's the way it's supposed to go. When I look back at it now, the time frame, the period, I mean, the learning curve went like this. You know, when I look at it now, it's like, wow, you know, but at the time, I didn't realize it. I mean, you're racing in one of the most elite forms of North American motorsport.

But the thing I learned, the first lap, when we came around and got the green, and going down the front straightaway, took the green, and I remember it vividly looking up through the field, and I could see, Voight, andzer, all these guys up ahead of me. And I remember thinking, you know what, they put their pants on one leg at a time just like I do. You know, we're people. It's a matter of doing the right job, getting the right opportunities, but, you know, there's, it's not like we're Superman, you know.

So you've been a journeyman then at this point going into all these different types of racing, and now you've got this opportunity with Simpson. At what point do you say I want to stay? Like this is where I want to, like, you know, make my mark. I never really looked at it like that. It's just, you know, I just went with what was in front of me. And when I look back at the good 2020 hindsight, If I look back at my career, I can see what I did that helped make it happen,

but I wasn't doing it for that reason. I didn't know it. And one of the things that I did, because I remember is I was going into different things. When I got in the V, the Formula V, I was, you know, you always want to look at the next thing. That's just normal. So when I was in the V, I was looking at the Super V. When I was looking at the Super V, I was looking at the Formula Atlantic, you know? Yeah.

And those guys wouldn't talk to me. this, who's this kid out of the desert? You know, they wouldn't, well, I ended up getting the Super V, and then I jumped Atlantic and all those guys with it, you know, the 5,000 car, and then, you know, jumped to whatever next to the Indy car. But I remember seeing guys running the same thing year after year after year after year. And when I looked back, and maybe they never got an opportunity. But by jumping around, it kept my name moving around.

But also, I know over the years I've had, you know, dads come up. What do I have to do to get my boy in the IndyCar, you know, or somebody come up, what have to do to get to IndyCar? And the first thing I say, well, wrong. If that's all you're worried about, you probably won't get there. Because when I look back at what happened to me, whatever I got in, I had 100% focus on it. Because I wasn't looking at getting here or there.

So all my focus went into that. That created the results. And then those results created the next opportunity. And I can look back and see how that happened all the way along the line. That's so interesting because it runs counter to what most people recommend, like dream big, you know, always be like that's not what you did. No. And that's why you think you're successful. Well, companies, I'm sure, used to have a heart attack with me because, you know, corporations and it's all about setting goals.

and all that. He has no goals. No goals. I don't believe in goals, you know. First of all, I don't like disappointment. So why do I want to set a goal and not make it? Right. So here's your expectation.

I figured if I put my best foot forward and did the job right, the next thing would happen. You know, that creates the next opportunity. So I have to ask you when you went to Ontario for the first time, is that the biggest track you'd ever raced on? It had to have been the largest, longest straightaway. So, I mean, is that when I first went around to Talladega, I was going down. in the back straightaway, the very first time looking at the turn, thinking, how does the car not fly out of there? Yeah.

How does that work? Right. And then, of course, you know, immediately after the first lap, you're like, holy cow, this is the sensation of grip and all the things are nothing like I'd ever experienced. Yeah. But, and notable is the shape of the track. I don't know if Indy's on your radar at that point or if even Indy 500 is a big deal to you at this point in your life. but the Ontario was built with Indian mind, you know, and shaped the same. So when you went out onto the racetrack in this car for the first time

and went down the back straightaway going through the gears, what's in your mind? Well, you know, I mean, back then, a kid, you just, you know, you can't have enough horsepower, right? Yeah. I mean, that's just what you want. So just that sensation, and I remember when I first got in the car with that offy, they said, just be careful when the boost comes up, you know. What happens? What does that feel like? Well, it's like somebody hitting you in the back with a hammer, you know, I think takes off.

But it'll light the tires up. That's why you see it, you know, back then you'd see a lot of guys crashing on starts, you know, because they'd cold tires. And, I mean, there were days in the early cars with the big single turbo snail. You know, in tight corners, when we first started running road races, in the tight corners, you'd come into a corner and I want the power to start coming on over here. I'd have to put the throttle down back here. and then as I'm coming off as the boost was building I'm starting to come back

on the throttle to keep the tire hooked up so I'm actually lifting chasing the boost until you get to a point to where the tires are hooked up and then you go back down with it so you just different you know you had to learn that lag and all that but no Ontario it just

you know the first couple of straightaways I don't remember really thinking about it a lot it was all about that corner coming what about the draft The draft, you know, it wasn't as big a problem back then. The cars weren't as efficient. You know, you still had it. You'd lose the front end.

I mean, I've said for years that Arrow is the biggest, the worst thing that ever happened to motorsports, you know. And I've been arguing, doing away with it for 30 years, you know, go the opposite direction for sure. But because we've fought it ever since I've been in, you know, in the business, in the Indy cars. Because they've always had wings when I started. But you just learned to, you know, you learn to deal with it just like anything.

You know, the first time it takes the air off your car and you're heading for the fence, say, okay, I've got to do something different there. Yeah. And you just deal with it. So you finished eighth at Ontario, ninth at Texas World. That must have been fun, going around Texas World, wide open. Yes, and rough. Yeah.

I remember coming off a turn four, there was a ripple in the thing. I remember coming off before you'd get to the real ripply part. and the steering wheel would start growing in your hands. Start getting bigger and your vision would go away and you couldn't even see the apex of the wall until you got through that spot, you know. The tunnel. Yeah.

There's even a bigger ripple there now. Yeah, there's a big dump. You went to Phoenix and run ninth, which is probably a bit more challenging, smaller track, lifting off the throttle and so forth. You know, it says here, Simpson is the kind of the one that mentioned your name to Roger Pinsky. Is that how that connection was made?

I'm not 100% percent. Sure. My first words with Roger, the first time he and I ever spoke, was the first year I went to Indy with that eagle, and we didn't qualify. I'd made two attempts, and I was about a half a mile an hour short of making the show. And I'm sitting on the wall in the pit lane scratching my head trying to figure out what I could do different. What was missing?

Well, I didn't know at the time, you know, but it was a four-year-old car, basically. and if I remember correctly, I felt like we had a decent balance, you know, so I probably just needed to trim more, but I, you know, I was such a rookie. I didn't want to stick the thing in the fence. For sure. But I felt like we were getting about everything out of it we could, but I was just short. So I remember sitting there just thinking, what am I going to do different, you know?

And I had one more attempt left. And I heard somebody say, hey, Mears, I looked up and it was Roger walking down. on pit lane. He said, how are you doing? I said, I don't know. I said, I'm just, you know, a little bumpy here trying to figure out what to do next. He says, well, just don't stick in the fence. Fence, that'd be the worst thing you could do. And off he went, you know, and I thought, sounds good to me. I like that idea. That's great advice. And then the next time we spoke was on that bike ride. So, you know, like between he and Simpson and all that, to be honest, I wasn't there, I don't know. What bike ride? I sure. All the detail. The Colorado 500.

and Wally Dahlumbach, he lived in Basalt, Colorado. And they had started putting on a ride there, like a three-day ride up in the Rockies, dirt bikes. And I got invited to it, and it was Parnelli, Unzers, Gurney, you know, all racing guys. Yeah. Some from the race teams, sponsors, you know, there was 33 or 34 of us on the ride, and Roger was there on the ride. which you can't really picture Roger on a dirt bike. I don't know for a fact,

but after being with Roger all these years and kind of watching how he works and everything, I don't know how much of it was kind of, first he probably wanted to go on a ride, but then also it was an opportunity to watch me away from the track, maybe just to kind of see, you know, I don't know that for a fact, but just, you know, after the years of being with him.

But anyway, we'd ride, you know, up through the Rockies on a set trail deal into another town the next night, and they'd have a hotel ready for us, and we'd get in there and spend the night at that town and hang out, and then get up the next morning and go on another day's ride to another town. It was a three-day ride. I'd call it to Colorado 500. And you could ride fast, you could ride easy, you know, whatever pace you wanted to run. But one morning we were getting the bikes ready to go. go. And I had Teddy Yip, which was the second Indy car I drove, he was getting out of the business,

so I didn't have a ride. And I was knocking on doors, trying to find something, and didn't really have anything going. And Roger and I were parked pretty close to each other, getting the bikes ready to go for that day's ride, and we got to talking. And pretty soon he says, I hear you think about driving for so-and-so. I think it was Fletcher that I was talking to at the time over in Phoenix, out of Phoenix. And I said, no, that had kind of gone cold and fell through. He said, no, not really. I hear you're thinking about hiring so-and-so. No, not really.

So we talked a little more, and we're getting ready to go, and he turns around, he says, I've got something in mind, give me a call before we make a deal with anybody else. And, God, about fell over. Right. It was as big a story. Because, again, he was like I felt about IndyCar, you know, that was way out of my league. Well, now he was way out of my league, as far as I was concerned. And so, needless to say, I followed a little.

him pretty close the rest of the ride. If he fell down, I'd pick him up, dust him out, straighten his handlebars for him, or whatever. And that's where it all started. And we got together at the farmhouse at Michigan after that. I would have not been able to wait. Like, I'd have been able to say, hey, let's just hammer it out right now. What's you talking? What's, what's you're thinking? How did you button it up? How did you button it up, suppress it? Well, I figured he, you know, he's been in the business a lot longer than I have. He probably knows a lot more about it than I do. So I'm not going to, you know. I knew I could, I very possibly could do something stupid and blow it.

Right. So I'll just let him handle it. He sort of set the table by saying if you talk to anybody else before he signed, you should have just said, hey, I'm about to sign with, you know, whoever and see what he does, right? Yeah. Don't play Roger Penske. That's probably the moral. That's probably the smarter way to do.

Don't sit there and try to play games with Roger Penske. Yeah. I mean, I knew he had a lot more on the ball than I did. How long after that ride did you guys sign? I don't remember exactly. I mean, it was 76 was the first year. You know, I drove the Indy car. 77 was the part-time year.

So this would have been at the end of 77. Okay. And because I signed with him for the part-time deal for 78. And I think it was probably 77, excuse me, 77 at not long after that. It seemed like the Michigan race. He said, let's, you know, he said, meet me at the farmhouse. I think it was after the race or one of the, I can't remember what day it was

of the weekend and he said like at 8 o'clock, whatever. He still swears I showed up about two hours early and it may have been right because I remember who ever answered the door still had a robe on so. So maybe I was a little early, but anyway we sat down and he said,

here's what I've got. He said, you know, I'll guarantee you at least six races. All three 500s, you'll run a third car because Mario will be at the, because I got the opportunity with him because Mario was, you know, chasing a world championship in Formula One at that time. So he was going to miss some races.

And so Roger was wanting somebody to fill in for him. Nice. In the off time. Again, timing, you know, and right place, right time. So he said, I'll guarantee you he'll run third car in the three-five-hundreds for sure. And then I'll guarantee you at least three other races, either in third or Mario's car if he's gone, whatever. And so I played hard to get for about five seconds. And, you know, I knew a part-time deal with him would be better than a full-time deal for most.

When you walked out of that house and got in your car and left, man, I mean, what are your emotions? Oh. Who did you call? Who did you go call first? Oh, God, I can't remember. Yeah. A long time ago. Yeah. No, it was just.

This is the break. Yeah. No, absolutely. But, you know, to me it was still just like it was another step. You know, I just kept as things stepped in front of me, you know, I thought, let's go have fun with it. You know, and it was just an opportunity. You went to Milwaukee in your fourth race with Roger and won? Now you're winning.

Now you're a winner. Yeah. Well, now when I look back at it, you know, Roger said, I'll guarantee you six races. Well, he ended up running 10. and now looking back at it, what was going on as we started, you know, having results. So as we were having results, he decided to start adding more races. Yeah, sure. That was a plan.

Yeah, which is the way it worked out. Winning your first race? Do you understand in the moment? Like what? Yeah, but I didn't feel like I wanted either because Al ran out of gas before I had a chance to pass him. Talk about what happened in that race on that last lap. Yeah, you know, he just started running out of fuel. and I was doing my typical

I took the desert to all my racing I spend the first half to get to the second half second half to get to the front if we aren't there and you know number one goal is take the checker flag because if you don't do that you can't do anything so that was always the game plan and you'd shorten that time frame

on the length of the race you just set it for the length of the race but that's the way I did there you know we ran I always started out I wanted to know where the track was at, where the cars at, what the conditions were, and keep an eye on the competitor and see who was, who was I going to have to gear up to have the shootout with? That was always the game plan. And so then we were getting down to the end, and now we'd worked our way to the front, and Al was leading it at the time, and I started reeling

him in, and I'd just gotten to him, and I felt like we had enough to get by him. It was just a matter, you know, picking the spot. and just about the time I was getting ready to try to get by him he ran out of fuel and so we cruised on to the finish and then but then I ran out of fuel coming off of four and luckily we had enough lead on Rutherford he I crossed the line just before he got to me you know so he almost won the race but I remember I remember I felt like I didn't win the race you know because I didn't get to pass Al yeah and And I remember I ran into Foyt not long after that, and I was telling him about that.

He just started cracking up laughing at me. I said, I just didn't really feel like I won the race. And he started laughing about it. He said, blame me. He said, it'll happen the other way more often than not. Oh. You know, everything comes around, take them any way you can get them, because you'll lose the next one by that same thing or whatever.

Yeah. And he was true, or he was right. So, but no, I mean, I was obviously excited about it, you know, first win and everything else. But what was your relationship with your competitors? It was good. Yeah, it's good. Get along with everybody?

Yeah, pretty much. They're racers, so they're all kind of like-minded back then. I mean, because the landscape's a little different today. Right. And not everybody likes each other. Even in, I'm talking in any form, right, NASCAR or whatever, they're kind of all butt heads and everybody's a little bit different and unique. But trying to put ourselves back in that era where, you know,

Foyt was regular competitor and you guys were walking and mingling in the garage. I mean, what was that like? It was good. It really was. I mean, the IndyCar, I think the IndyCar side has always been fairly good about that, you know, and gotten along fairly well. And as far as like myself and teammates, which is one of the reasons I fit in there, you know, with Roger was, you know, he always had, he always ran the team aspect and the true team aspect. teamwork started coming around a lot

afterward with a lot of other teams that started talking teamwork but they didn't utilize teamwork he's always utilized teamwork if I've got three horses why do I only want one good horse you know I want all three of them to be good but where I fit in was my brother and I growing up we raced against each other in the buggies at ascot

in the desert and everything else and we knew if we could help each other you know to the next level and get an advantage over everybody else, all we had to do is race each other. That would be a lot of fun. Yeah. So, you know, we'd go home at night or after practice or whatever

and sit down and pick each other's brain. You know, what are you doing over here? What do you doing over there? What did that change do to the car? How'd that work, you know? So we were working the team concept unknowingly. And so when I signed on with Roger, I fit right in in that respect, you know.

And, you know, now I had teammates that weren't really, you know, Bobby Onzer, he was, He was old school, and I understood that, you know. He was more of a one-car team guy. Yeah. And he was a competitor. If I'm not 5% ahead, if I don't have a 5% advantage, I'm 10% behind, you know. That's the way he looked at everything.

Wow. So I've compared that to my dad or Darrell Walchip and a couple of guys. So in NASCAR, it was mostly single car teams, owners had one car, one focus. and when they started, when two cars, teams started to filter into the sport in the 80s, the drivers pushed back against it. A lot of them hated it. Didn't know why I needed a teammate. That was a distraction that was going to take away from my effort.

You couldn't no way put two cars, two good cars on the racetrack. Why would you want to do this, right? And they hated the other driver. They resented the other driver before they even knew him. D.W had problems with that when he was teammates with Neil. Dad certainly made it known that he wasn't a big fan of having Skinner as a teammate or having a second car, Richards. And so there was a little bit of that even, you know, and we see in Formula One, I mean,

the teammates are quite competitive. Right. There's some that do work well together, but generally that's a guy trying to, there's an A guy, and a B guy, the B guy wants to be the A guy and all that. So you experienced some of that with Al or with Bobby or some of your teammates. Yeah. Majority of all of them are great. You know, Sneva, when I first started, a teammate,

and Mario, you know, they both helped me out. And, you know, Bobby Unzer helped me out. I'd met him at Pikes Peak. And when I first started driving the first Indy car, he would take me around the tracks, run me around the pace car and point things out until I got any equipment that I was competitive with him. Change a little.

Then it all went out the window. Then it was lying, cheating, and stealing. You know, I mean, he would do things and not tell us. But I understood, He and I got along great. I had my own ego and my own pride. I didn't want to ask him anything. I want to figure it out myself.

And then if I beat him, I've earned it. And that's just the way I looked at it. So I didn't care if he'd dealing me anything or not. But I sure kept my eyes and ears open. And I wanted to learn everything I could. And he used to, we'd go to a function. And if you'd get on stage, yeah, I taught that mirrors everything he knows, you know. And I'd get up afterward and say, well, yeah, he, you know,

He wasn't lying. He really taught me a lot. But I said he actually taught me more than he knows. He taught me out of sort through the BS. He taught me how to read between the lines. He taught me all kinds of things he doesn't even know he taught me. But I learned all of it just by watching him. And you could learn to read him.

I mean, a little example, we were at Elkhart, and I was wanting to get a little more power down off the corner. And I said, guys, I think I need a little lighter rear spring. Just get a little more power down. And so they came out. All we've got is one step left, you know, 50 pound change. I said, let's try it. Put it on, went out, and it was better.

You know, I got a little better grip. And I came in, and Bobby was always the first one on the side of the car, right? And so they said, well, how was it? And I said, it's good. Keep it. I want to keep it. And he just went nuts. You know, oh, they're in a man alive that can feel a 50-pound spring chain.

There is no way, you know. And I thought, oh, good, I'm going his direction. You know, he was pretty easy to read. And that's the way I did it with Dimmie, because we got along great, and I didn't care whether he did whatever, you know, because I wanted to beat him on my own anyway. I was going to ask you a quick question, a little bit unrelated.

We did the show Lost Speedways, and we tried to tell the story of the 1979 Indycar cart split. It sort of goes back to the off-y, as best as we could tell. But you're just starting out, and now you're with Roger Penske. So I'm curious on your version. of how that sort of transpired and how it affected you at a very early point of your career? It really, you know, I never got into that kind of thing.

It was giving me the steering wheel and, you know, I was in the garage trying to figure out and help. I enjoyed the setup of the car. I've been lazy all my life. The better that thing works, the less I'm going to have to. And I enjoyed that end of it working on the car. And so all the political end of it, now the racing, all that stuff that was right. Rogers Division, and I really didn't get too involved with it. I know one thing that it did do, it helped create the test in Formula One.

I mean, for me to take the opportunity, because it was right around 80, I guess, 1980, and that was right after the split. And when I was approached from Bernie Ucklestone to do a test in the Brabham car, first of all my ego and my you know I wanted to see if those guys put their pants on one leg at a time also or if they're a head taller like a lot of Mac

you know which is one reason I didn't do it I didn't like the attitudes and and yeah I got into racing to have fun not to fight and be political and all that but but when that opportunity came up my thinking was first I want to see if I could drive one I want to see if it's another race car like all the ones I've felt so far. They all speak a little different language.

You have to listen to them and learn the language. And so I wanted that opportunity to see if I could be competitive if I decided I wanted to. But also, at that point in time, we weren't 100% sure about cart yet if it was really going to take off or not. So it was kind of like this gives me an opportunity to have my foot in the door somewhere else just in case something goes upside down. you know so that was kind of part of my thinking on doing that test and the test was over a you know we did a test in france first and then like five months later another test at riverside well by the time we came because we came to terms on everything with the contract you had a contract with bernie yeah yeah we came to terms it's just a matter of me making a decision whether i wanted to do

or not and and um and by the time i did the last test and got toward the end of that year I can see cart was taken off. You know, it was going. And so then it's like, okay, where am I going to have the most fun? That's why I do this. R-Series, I get to do Oval, Roadcourse, Speedway, Short Track, Street Circuit. That's road course only. I liked a 7-Eleven every corner, staying in America, you know, in that respect.

But I didn't like the backstabbing, you know, the media. the politics, you know. So I'm going to have more fun. And I was still fairly new with Penske, and I loved the organization, and wasn't really willing to give that up yet. But also that's where I was going to have the most fun. Yeah, the money was good in Formula One.

But the main thing is I got to drive the car, and I got to satisfy my own curiosity that, yes, it's a race car. I was within a half a second of Nelson on his home track at Paul Ricard, and I was in make no mistake mode. Right, you were conservative. And I was still learning to think. So I knew there was more left. Then we went to Riverside and I was a couple seconds a lap quicker and he was there.

He didn't like turn 9 in a high-speed corner. So yes, we could be competitive if I want to do it. So now it's all the peripheral things that I've got to decide on. Yeah. And I just decided I was going to have a lot more fun here. And I've got zero regrets about doing it. Well, Roger Penske was behind cart being so successful, right? Yes.

I mean, that was his thing. And so that certainly has to make that a little easier. Sure. Sure. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Yeah. But still in the early on, when that deal came up with the F-1 car, it was still fairly early in the thing.

Sure. Now, I knew with Roger being involved in the guys that were involved, you know, there wasn't much of a doubt it wouldn't go, but there was still a little question mark, you know. And you left yourself an exit ramp, so to speak. It was just, exactly. And Roger was great about it when I went to him and said, hey, you know, I got a call from Bernie

and wants me to test this to have one car. And Roger says, it's typical of Roger. He said, you know, that's a decision you've got to make. He said, I'm not going to keep you from it, you know, go try it, just a call you're going to have to make. And he had no problem with me going to. and doing the test. So when you won your first Indy 500,

what was that experience like? I mean, pulling into, you know, pulling into India and going out there and, you know, after having failed to qualify just years before, just a few years before, going back there and winning the race, the biggest race in North American motorsports, arguably the world, you know,

how are you, are you feel like you're at the top of the mountain? No, I just felt like we won another race. I know. Did you know it? It wasn't even a goal. Another race. Yeah.

No, see, I had to learn that. That came. I had to learn on that. Down the road, yeah. Because, you know, I won it my second attempt. First attempt, we're on the front row. Yeah. You know, and it was an, and I always tried to keep that place as just another race on another track for my own.

I don't see how that's possible. But that's, well, that's the hard part. Yeah. you know, I went to opposite. I always toned myself down, not pump myself up. But how do you do that at that spectacle? Visually, it seems like it. Well, that's why I left my helmet unbuckle the first race.

I was doing that. You were being so nonchalant about it that you left your helmet on buckle for the race. Yeah, basically what happened was, you know, we qualified on the front row, right? So after qualifying, all the way up to race time, it was all about, is the rookie going to make a mistake on the front row? Is the rookie going to blow it? Is the rookie going to do this? So I made up my mind, I was not going to make a mistake at the start of the race, right? So, and again, I don't like, you know, not that I don't like it,

but I like to stay out of all the hoopla and everything. And I wanted to stay relaxed. I've got 500 miles to get excited, you know. Why do I need to be excited in turn one? That's when you make mistakes. So I stayed in the hotel room as long as I could. then went out to the garage, stayed in the garage as long as I could before time to get in the car, right? So I was trying to stay calm, cool, and collected.

Well, in all my calmness, I was late getting in the car. So now I was almost late, so now I had to hurry to get to the car and get in it, right? So now I'm running behind. So I'm throwing everything on it, and I buckled the helmet and gave a tug and jumped in the car and got all buckled in and took off. And we come around and get the green and going down the back shoot after taking the green, the window on the helmet starts going up like this. I go, oh my gosh. You got to be kidding me.

I reached out and grabbed my helmet and pulled it back down. And every time I'd turn loose the helmet, there's almost a vacuum from the windscreen. They're going over the top. Just pushing it up? It's a lift on the helmet. Yeah. So it was lifting the helmet.

So the window kept going up. So it was unbuckled. And so now here I am my first race with Roger. And I don't want to make this call. call into the team and say, hey, I forgot to buckle my helmet. And so I put it off for a few laps. So after running three or four laps, whatever it was, you know, running with one hand holding the helmet down,

I thought this is nuts. I'm going to take me and somebody with me, you know, if I don't do something. So I finally got up the nerve to call in and say, hey, guys, my helmet's unbuckle. I need to make a stop. And fortunately, we got a yellow at the same time. Oh, wow. And so that allowed us to come in and get the helmet buckled up and take back off again.

But that was all part of the being relaxed. So this is how the 1979 Indy500 started. No, this was the 78th, my first year. Okay, okay, your first year. Yeah. All right. Well, racing blind, that's new. That's a new tactic, right?

It wasn't fun. But you go win the next one. Yeah. And we all know that that's not something. It's just another race, and you're keeping it, keeping it low key and all that stuff. You remember to buckle your helmet this time, I assume. Yes.

How did that week go or that race go for you? It was good. Let me get back to the learning part, the first part of the question, I happened to learn that, what it felt like went in that. Again, I never dreamed of being there, and I didn't have family that ran there.

I didn't know what indie meant. I had to learn what indie meant. When did that happen? Well, it was a progress. Yeah. you know and with time you know the first one it was kind of like I knew it was the biggest race right and and very excited about it but it was still another race it wasn't the Super Bowl to me yet and but with time when you start after you're there for a few years and you're going to the

parade downtown and you see what it means to the city and you know and and you start learning all of that kind of thing, the history, taking a look at the history and how many years it's been there and all that. I knew nothing about all that. Right. That makes sense now. So I had to learn that and with time it grew, you know, more and more all the time. You had a pretty incredible career won a lot of races and then, I mean, as you're winning, you won 4 in 5 hundreds. By time you get to 3, 4, you know that there's only a couple guys that have won four, right? You're not only a winner, you're not only having success at this premier level, you're doing things that only select few guys have ever done.

And I know you mentioned your ego a few times, so I'm sure that thing is getting big. But at what point were you able to sort of get a little reflective and really take some stock and pride? and how far, you know, what you had done, what you accomplished, how you had singled yourself out amongst your peers? I never really did that.

I mean, see, to me, when I look back at it, kind of not doing that as what helped drive me. You know, it's like, it's like showing off. You know, when you show off is when you stub your toe. And to me, it's like I could line up. I've never had a lot of confidence in the car. I mean, and to me it was a good thing. I could line up and run the same race 10 times against the same people and win all 10 of them.

And when I'd go into the 11th sitting on the line getting ready to go, I could look at that group and somebody's going to kick my butt. Yeah. You know, and it was, I never understood how somebody I said, well, I was going to win that race or I'm going to win this one. Yeah. You know, I've never agreed with that. That's a personality trait. Yeah. Yeah.

So because it was always about how do I get the next one. Yeah. You know, so I didn't, and to me, records, I never did anything for records or for a dollar. I never knew if a race paid a dollar or a million until after it was over. You know, that just wasn't why I was there. And it's like I remember some of the early contract. I remember when incentives first came into our sport in the contracts, you know, a bonus for this or a bonus for that. Well, when I started, there wasn't any of that.

in the contracts. And when that first started coming up, I said, Roger, I don't need the bonuses in there. I said, I think we ought to just do this. I said, you know, what I've been doing is working. And if I start looking at things like that, I'm liable to do things I wouldn't normally do and create problems and make mistakes.

I just, to me, if I run any harder for a bonus that you give me, you ought to fire me. because I should already be doing it. That's just the way I've always looked at it. When I hear somebody say, oh, it's contract time. They're standing up in the seat. Well, if that was my driver, they'd be gone.

You know, because they should have been standing up in the seat the first race, not a contract time. But that's just the way always looked at it. So I've just never let myself kind of get into that mode. And I always felt like records were something I'll look at later. I didn't do anything for a record. Every time at Indy, I'd never, okay, this is going to be for the second one, or this is going to be for the third or whatever.

It was always about another race. Yeah. You had a practice crash in 1984 at San Air. I didn't even heard of that place, but it's a 0.8 mile tri-over racetrack. I've seen video the crash. You injured your legs, both legs, terribly. What do you remember from that moment? I remember, you know, most of it, there's bits and pieces.

I mean, I remember everything going right up to watching the guardrail coming at me. You know, and then the next thing I remember was somebody saying, Mears, you know who I am? I kept hearing that, and then pretty soon I came around, and it was Roger leaning over me. You know, I was on a stretcher in the infield. Oh. And lean over me asking me if I knew who he was.

But, and then I just kind of remember bits and pieces after that for a while, just because of all the trauma. but everything they're leading up to the accident and actually hitting, I remember all of it clearly. Yeah. So busted your legs up real bad. And I know that even after that, you had other wrecks that re-injured, I mean, the wreck in 84 at San Air, I don't even know how you had bones to break beyond that.

Yeah. But like, so as you're re-injuring your feet, you know, post-1984, I mean, how difficult is this getting on you to not only the pain of the injuries, but also the rehabilitation and the long-term quality of life effects this is going to have or could have? All those things have to be weighing on you a little bit. Yes and no. You know, I mean, it is what it is. and the spilled milk deal never does any good, worrying about stuff. And the main thing, you know,

the biggest question you always got after something like that was how did you get back in the car? Yeah. You know, how do you deal with that? As long as I know what happened, it was zero problem. You know, I've never lost a car that I didn't know something happened. When I hear somebody say,

I just don't know what happened, that would scare me to death. anytime I've lost a car or crashed a car I either got in too deep I yanked the wheel I picked a throttle up too soon too hard whatever I did I know that's what created it and made it you know start its journey so that's how you learn

and if I did something like that and caused the crash okay I'm not going to do that again or I felt the car do something I felt it drop I felt this, I felt that, I felt a gust of wind, I felt there was always something that created the problem that started the crash. And as long as I knew what that was, if the car dropped, you know, get back to the guys, get to look in everything, and we find what broke, or if it was a tire, or whatever the case may have been. And as long as I knew what it was, I had zero problem getting back in the car.

that crash there was my fault. It was just me getting over-anxious. We'd just taken the lead in the points championship. I think the race before, and we'd done a test there, and it was a new track, first time to run there. We had a little advantage going into the race, and I'm one of these.

I need to see it on the watch. You know, I want to see a lap time myself. And so I was trying to get a clean lap, and there was a little three-corner bull ring and hard to get a clear lap. and I had to run at two cars in front of me and I could see ahead of them once I cleared these guys I could get a clean lap down

so just as I caught I think it was Ray Hall and just as I caught him he was behind another car and I caught him and I jumped out, had a run I jumped out and just as I jumped out he started out not knowing I had he started out around the car in front of him and so now I'm having to stay off his

his left rear with my right front as close as I can because I see a car warming up down low, down to the other end and straightaway. And so I'm just putting all this together and how the timing is going to work out of catching that guy and where we're at coming across to line in, you know, fall in line to get by him. And it was stupid on my part. I mean, it was practice. But I could see it working out to where we were going to clear. We were going to get by the slow car in time to keep it going and clear.

clear these guys so I could get a lap in. And just as we get to the, going by the lapped car, you know, because I'm having to watch his right rear, because I'm having to stay right on it. And just out of the, you know, outside watching the car go by. You know, you're on a freeway. You pass somebody. You judge it by how fast you're going by. Yeah, you know when you're clear.

Yeah. And as he's going by peripherally, I'm going, okay, it's going to, it's going to work. and then all of a sudden I felt a hit in the left rear and turned and straight into the guardrail. And what I found out later was that he stood on the throttle just as we got to him. And as he was going out of sight, it started slowing down like that. So it was a timing, all of it comes.

But at the end of the day, it was dumb on my part. You know, it was my mistake. You had the leg injuries and all that, but are successful in winning races all the way up until the moment you decided to retire. I mean, you went to $8,500 a year before. What was behind the decision for you? I remember this, so in my mind it felt like that you had, like,

this guy's walking away while he's still competitive, while he's still relevant. What was behind that decision? How easy was that decision or how hard was it? It was difficult. It was definitely difficult. But it was desire was going away. Yeah. It was the reason.

and I'd always told myself I'd seen in all kinds of sports people go too long and I just didn't want to do that I didn't want to go too long but even more than so I'd already thought about it in that respect I mean way before I ever thought about retirement

that was just kind of a plan you know but I also knew that eventually the desire was going to go away just like anything any of my hobbies or anything I've ever done, you know. I knew one day I was going to wake up and say, you know what, I'm just not having the fun that I used to have here. I knew that day would come, and I tried to be halfway sensible with my money

and not get the size boat I really wanted when I wanted it and not charter the plane or buy the plane that I wanted when I wanted it or the motor home, you know, because I wanted to make sure when that day came, came I could do it and not have to keep doing it to make ends meet. And to me, as soon as the desire dropped off, the performance was going to go with it. I knew that. So I just kept Hebs, the very first time that I thought about the desire, I think it was at Indy, or one of the races may not have been Indy, but I always took it to the room with me.

You know, I took it to the hotel. I took it home with me, and, you know, I'd come back the next day and say, all right, guys, last night I was saying about it, we need to take a look at trying this. this, this or this. You know, that was just what I did. And I remember walking in the garage one day, the next day's practice, walked in the garage and said, all right, guys, where are we at? What are we doing?

And it dawned on me. I hadn't even thought about it overnight. Ah, first sign. That was the first sign to me of the desire was starting to taper off. So I just started keeping tabs on that, that desire. And I just kept noticing little things here, little things there. And, you know, maybe not catching something quite as quick as I would have, you know, before or whatever. Nothing that was ever a problem.

Yeah. Nothing ever, you know, close to being a problem. But just things that I noticed. And I just felt like it was a desire starting to do it. When you made the decision, did you ever have second thoughts about that? Well, one time when we came up. out with the beast, the pushrod motor? When I saw the, no, I didn't do that much with it, but when I saw the performance of it,

I thought, oh damn, you know, this would be a time to run. But it lasted about that long. You know, I really got no regrets. Yeah. I mean, it's fair to say, though, that you had some pretty gnarly crashes in 92. the one at Indy is still hard to watch even today. I mean, that had to somewhat expedite this desire, right? The upside down one?

Yeah. Yeah. No, it did. I mean, you know, people thought that those were why I did. I got out. It would be a fair assumption, right? Myself included, yeah. Right.

But that wasn't. Now, if I'm honest, yes, it probably sped it up a little bit. But I was already thinking about it before that. it was already starting to cross my mind, you know. But actually, one of the things that happened in that wreck is one of the things that I fell back on when I made the final decision. And when I had that crash, and, you know, things spun around, I hit the wall, flips upside down, and, you know, and I feel something else,

and then something gets my attention. I look at them, I'm seeing sparks, and damn, I'm upside down. and you know, I can't breathe, can't get my breath, there's fluid running in. I'd already had a pit fire. So I was having to breathe shallow because I can't stop. It's going down straightaway. It's not slowing down because there's no rubber on the ground. And I'm waiting for it to ignite so I can hold my breath.

First, the pit fire I had, I didn't have a breath when it ignited. And that was the scariest part not being able to breathe and not having a breath. So I made sure I was breathing shallow that I was ready to take a breath if it ignited. And so I'm waiting for it to ignite while it's coming to a stop. And I remember right after I hit upside down, this thought went through my head. I don't need that. You know, that thought just, excuse my language,

but it just crossed, right? Real quick. I've crashed before. I've never thought that before. Yeah. Right? I mean, I didn't think about that way then, but it no sooner went through my mind and it was gone.

And I never even thought about that thought again. Came to stop, got out of the car, whatever. Okay, then the, the, When I, the last race that I had, I was going to have to have surgery on my wrist from one of those, it was the upside down or the one after. So I was going to miss some races, and that's when I started thinking about the retirement again. And I remember that it's the first time I thought about that thought happening. You know what?

I've never had that thought when I crashed a car. And another thing, the last race, I parked a car that was still running. I'd never done that before in my life. So those were just indicators that the desire was gone. or going. And so when I fell back on all of that, and then finally I woke up one morning and thought you it it, if you're thinking about it, it's pastime. You know, so just time to go.

When did you tell Roger? I don't remember exactly. It was not long before the Christmas party, because I hadn't told anybody. My wife and my brother were the only two that I'd ever mentioned it to until I mentioned it to Roger, because I didn't want anybody else influencing the decision. It had to be something I had to be comfortable with. The hardest part of the decision was feeling like I was letting the team down

because we'd had all four wins with this team. Right. And I know how much everybody wanted to get the fifth one. And that's, that I probably struggled with more than any of it because I felt like I was letting them down. And I went back and forth and back and forth and back and forth on that. And then finally I thought, okay, you know, again, you idiot, you know, it's a little it, you know, if the desire's not there, you're not going to win the next one anyway, more than

likely, because you aren't going to be doing the job you need to do. And plus, if you aren't doing the job you need to do, it's not fair to the team, it's not fair to the sponsors, it's not fair to anybody else. So, and if I'm not going to be competitive, it's not going to be any fun. So you just weigh all that stuff up. That sort of removes any idea then to, you know, just run the Indy 500. I mean, the beast would have been sort of, sort of invited. I mean, that would have been, I get it. When I mentioned it to Roger when I first told him

that that's what I was saying about doing, you know, getting out of his seat, that was the first words out of his mouth. You just want to run the three-five-hundreds, you know, the speedways. And I said no. You know, I said, the desire is not there to do it. That's why I'm making this decision.

If I'm going to run one, I might as well run them all and make the money. But then also, I've never understood how somebody could come and run indie only. To me, if I'm going to be competitive, I've got to be current. You know, I've got to do it every day. Exactly. You can't go in there. That's why I never got a pilot's license.

It's too elite to think you could show up and enjoy it. You're not going to enjoy it because you won't be competitive. Right, exactly. You're going to be way behind all day, every lap. No way. Yeah. That's difficult. And I can understand. I mean, I can understand doing it for fun. Yes. You know, I understand.

But it might more and likely be more miserable experience than you anticipate just because everything's not going to happen like you Like you're dreaming it in your brain, right? What have you been doing with yourself lately? What do you do these days? As little as possible. No, I just, you know, I still go to some of the races.

They're letting me kind of picking shoes. Where's home? Home is Florida. What part of Florida? Jupiter. Nice. And then about 18 years ago, I built the place here over in Denver. Okay.

So I base out of here during the season and travel with the guys. Okay. But over the years it's been it's been basically whatever What's your hobbies? Oh, I jump around. I golf for a while, which I haven't done that in quite a while either. Play with the RC stuff. I've done that often since I was a kid, you know,

the planes, the cars, the trucks, the whatever. Fishing, motorcycles, you know, got into the Harley thing for a few years, enjoyed building them and tinkering on them and, you know, trying to come up with a look. you like and yeah you know got a couple old 55 Ford truck and 52 Chevy pickup and a couple hot rods just just tinker around yeah jet ski the boat did you say you go to the races though still yeah yeah still go to some of them yeah okay yeah this last three years I've been three or maybe four years now I've been kind of dropping a race or two off more each year what is today's

Indy car climate like the drivers and the differences between when you were racing. But what is your impressions on where Indy car is today? Indy car is, I think, in a really good place right now. I think they've done a great job. I think the new rules with the less down force. I mean, like I said, I've argued from the time I was driving when I was driving. We kept going what I felt was the wrong way. More down force, higher corner speeds, which brings the lap times up.

Now they slow the lap times down with. you know, less power or whatever, but you crash in the corner. So it's corner speed. It's where, you know, you need to, you know, plus I lose my tools. You know, the more downforce there is, the less tools I have to work with. You know, you've got to be able to move your feet more and the wheel more and use your head more and, you know, that kind of thing.

So I think now they are definitely on the right track, you know. I forget how many pounds we took out of these cars. And as far as I'm concerned, they could go even more, you know, in my respect, but it creates more opportunity. I hate to say it like that, but you've got to create some opportunity for a stake. 100%. That's what creates change.

And bumps in a break. Every time when I was driving somebody, we got to get rid of that bump. I said, no, leave that bump alone. It's up to me to work on the shocks, working my pattern, whatever, to gain an advantage. You take the bump out, I lose a tool.

you know and with any of that kind of stuff driver aids you know yeah you know back in the old h pattern shifter if we shift 5,000 times in a race on a road course I miss three and they miss 10 I've gained an advantage and so you know the more of that kind of thing you know the more tools you lose I think but but I think you know the car and the way they're going now is I mean the the competition level, you know, we used to go crazy about, you know, 10, 12, 14 cars within a second on an oval. Now we're getting 17, 18 cars within a second on a road course. I mean, it's tight. It's really, really tight. I think it's the best, one of the best times to get into the deal because you can, everybody's playing with the same blocks. So now you buy the blocks. You know,

you get a driver, you get an engineer, and the learning curve is figuring out how to stack the blocks. You know, these other guys that have been there longer have figured a little better way. But at least you've got the blocks to figure out. It's not like you're building your own engines, you're building your own chassis, you're building all that stuff. So I think this is really in a good direction. Everybody always wants to go back to the, you know, building your own chassis, have a different name, different look, different whatever.

That went away with composites. you know, before composites, you know, a lot of us could bend a little sheet metal. We could do a little welding, you know, think outside the box a little bit. But not too many of us had an autoclave in our garage or knew how to work one. So because of cost and everything, and that's why even having more than one, like when we had Lola in March and all those, it was always a bit of a crap shoot. you know, you develop all year to build a chassis, and if your chassis has, if the march has an edge over the Lola,

you know, this is America. We all go one direction, right? What's best? So you buy the march. Well, now Lola didn't sell anything. They've got to continue development for another year to try to get that advantage and hopefully be the one they choose next year.

And if you do that a couple years in a row, it's going to be hard to stay in business. So it's been kind of self-weeding in that respect. And so I think the single chassis deal, like I was going to say, it's not getting any easier because it's getting so competitive now. But as far as getting the equipment, getting in, getting involved, and being reasonably competitive early on, you know, it's probably the best it's ever been.

Yeah. And the competition level is as good as it's ever been. I feel like you could lay that same conversation right over the top of where NASCAR, is now with, you know, going to composite bodies, same chassis, everybody buying everything. So it's interesting to similarities. But, man, we want to thank you for coming. I've enjoyed this conversation. Same here.

Yeah. Same here. People know you is the king of the oval, the oval master. I want to read a couple quotes. Don Miller from Piskie says that you were the most calm racer he's ever met. You could fall asleep on pit road. I know another driver that you used to say that about. Cool is a cucumber.

Paul Page said you were a student of the Indianapolis surface. You'd study the peculiar winds and understand what it would do to you coming off the wall. Bill Simpson said that he could sit in your eyes that he knew Rick Mear was going to be one of the greats. Nobody had your intensity or your focus. It's been a, you know, I grew up watching you race and I've gotten to know the Mears family a little bit through Casey and so forth. And it's an iconic name. And we're lucky that you carve out a little bit of time. and your schedule to come over here and visit with us today and talk to us.

I know our listeners are going to be thrilled to hear you and everything you had to say. So we're glad to know that you're local. Close by. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for having me. And I was already grown up, but I watched you race a lot too. Well, I appreciate it. But I always admired the job you've done in the car and out of the car.

Yes, sir. I mean, just like this program that I've watched and stuff in the past, the homework you do and the study of the history and everything. You guys do a great job. Thank you very much, Rick. Just an honor. I hope you have a great month. See you in Indy.

All right. See you there. I'll be down there and I'll come say hello. Yeah, I do. I will. Rick Mears on the Dell Jr. Download. You know, Mike, whether I've been in the garage, right, as a driver or in the studio as a member of the media, the biggest lesson I've learned over the years is that we are all better off

with an ally. A friend, a partner. My favorite part of the download has always been the opportunity it gives me to connect with such a wide range of people. They love racing as much as I do, and it means so much to me that when we leave the guest segment, I leave it with a feeling that I can call each and every guest on the download a true ally. Thank you, Ally, for your continued support of the show and the entire Dirty Mo Media team.

It's finally time for our favorite part of the show. Junior. It's going to be brought to you by Xfinity as usual. Really happy for everything Xfinity's done for us and everything they do for the sports. You guys have sent your questions to the ad Xfinity Racing handle on Twitter. And so Hannah's got some of the questions ready and she's going to put them together and pick her favorites. Yeah, and we are already live up here on YouTube. So I feel like we have to kick it off right away. We talked about it at the top of the show. We want to recruit the fans here. So we give them enough time here that we would like to rename the open segment and we're opening it up to the fans right for their suggestions yeah so

we're we're going to kind of change the open segment up a little bit Hannah's going to toss us topics and we're going to go over them and but it'll be all you know I mean the topics and conversation really won't change much but we just really have been having a hard time coming up with a name for the open segment I'm kind of okay with open segment Mike uh Matthew maybe not in love with it so I think our best bet is to allow our our listeners to name the open segment. Someone already said wide open. Wide open.

And I kind of, I mean, it's the leader of the pack right now. So send them in. Yep. You don't have to do it today. Maybe by the next week's show, we'll have landed on something that we liked, but it's going to come from you guys,

which is probably the best. Yeah. The way it should happen. Perfect. Well, that segues us into the next one here. Of course, a lot of talk about, you know, we talked about Darlington. We talked about the Kentucky Derby.

A couple fans have chimed in and asked, What is your takeaway from F1 and all the hype that came with Miami and just your overall thoughts on it? Boy, I have hesitated to say this, but I can't get into it. I'm with you. I can't. I like the celebrities. Yeah. I'm not incapable of enjoying F1 because I used to watch it when Mika Hockening and Michael Schumacher and those guys were going at it.

I mean, it was pretty awesome back then. But for some reason, I have had a hard time. I've had a hard time finding my interests or my connection to F1. And so I really, really, really didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it. The only thing that I was really watching was some social media stuff. Jeff Gluck was there and several other guys and girls that, you know, I follow. on social media, so I was seeing some of their experiences and so forth, but I have no idea really how the race win or what people thought of the track or the experience and what it

means for F1 or the Miami Grand Prix going forward. I'm paying attention in terms of globally, like the sport getting more involved in the U.S., more races here and so forth, but I really, and I like Daniel. I follow him or want him to do well. If there's a guy that I pull for, it's Ricardo, but it's tough for me to really get into like the championship battle and the, and the, you know, what's going on there. But, um, so I'm kind of struggling as an F1 fan. Yeah, there was a lot going on to. Like, did you guys see the merchandise pricing that they had? Well, I'm sure it was ridiculous. Yeah, like a basic hat that just had Mercedes on it, I think was like $95 and windbreakers were upward of $400. And what? It was wild. Someone did the pricing and you could

buy a hat, a windbreaker, and I think a water box. and they were like, that'll get you a three-day pass into the Indy 500, great access, this, that, all for a windbreaker at the F1 race. It was crazy. But speaking actually of IndyCar, Michael Kelly said, hey, Dale, how excited are you that High Rock is going to be a sponsor on an IndyCar? Oh, I'm pumped about that. You know, Sugarlands has, Sugarlands is sort of the parent company for High Rock,

and they have a relationship in IndyCar and so with Ray Hall and so forth. And this is just, you know, part of that connection. and it was already there. It's not like a new thing. But I'm excited to have High Rock on the race car. And that might not be the last race car you're going to see High Rock on. So we'll, you know. Yeah.

So, you know, we're just trying to grow with a brand. High Rock Buc is doing really well. I know that my partners are excited at Sugarlands with the sales and the attention that it's gained across the country. And so we have a lot of, we really kind of initially got our product in the total wines. So if you have a total wine in your area, it's more than likely going to be able to, you know, you're going to be able to find it there.

But we're getting into other, you know, other places as well. And they're like here in North Carolina, we have the ABC stores and that's where you would find it. There's three in this, in Moorsville. And there's high rock at those stores. So it's gaining a, gaining some footprint. So I'm excited about that. A couple people saying they're going to stop into their local one on the way home. It's in Iowa now, it looks like, people are excited about.

Very good. Happy to hear that. I've actually always wondered to this too. This one comes from Ben Riddle. But what is the strangest thing that you've ever been asked to autograph? Because I feel like people come up with just about anything. We talked about that on this show. A prosthetic limb is probably the strangest thing.

I mean, skin. And people ask you to autograph their arm or their, you know, their shoulder. And for me, that's, that's uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable. I was at an autograph session the other week, and a guy came up and he's like, I want you autograph my arm, I'm going to get it tattooed. And I'm like, oh, this is such a terrible decision. I don't want to be a part of this.

And I was like, look, best case scenario for me, is so he he and this has happened a handful of times before and there the person is always usually insistent that you that you sign their arm right or their whatever part of their body this is right that you sign it because my opinion is like let's do let's do you know if i sign skin it writes you can't write well on skin with a sharpie it doesn't look anything like my autograph and it's the worst case or worst example of my autograph. So I try to get a clean piece of paper and sign it and say take this to your artist. If you're really, really sure that this is what you want to do, I at least insist that you have a good looking signature, right? So I try to give it to them on a

blank piece of paper. And most of the time, they refuse that. They want you to actually be the one that has signed that arm and not take a piece of paper, right? To them, it means it doesn't mean the same, that they take a piece of paper with the signature and have to. And how to that. have their artist. Does that make sense? It makes 100% sense and yet it's just even furthermore why it's a bad decision. It's a bad decision. All the way around. I'm hopeful going forward that I'm never asked that again because I don't really like, I don't think it's a great choice. But sign of a prosthetic limb, I do it and I don't mind doing

it. I think initially though it's just the, there's a bit of a shock at first in, in some someone handing that to you. But, I mean, once you get beyond that initial being taken aback, it's fine. It's easier to sign than skin. Well, I think, look, man, I don't know what it's like to have a prosthetic limb. And so you sympathize with that person. That's their, that's theirs. That's part of their body.

They live with this thing every day. So this thing is absolutely normal to them, right? And this is, there's no, you know, once you get beyond that sort of initial reaction to it, you're like, I can see why you would want, I could see why you would maybe want this to have an autograph on it. You know, it's different than a tattoo on a physical part of your body. And there, this prosthetic will typically have other things like decals or stickers or some other, you know, some sort of form of self-expression on it.

So it's not so crazy. But it's just kind of strange, I've never, when do you ever hold a prosthetic limb, right? When does anybody ever handed you one, right? This is not something that happens to any of us normally. And so initially that, oh, I'm holding your leg. That moment. So that person took it off and was like, hey, what you sign this? It wasn't like a, hey, can you sign this?

Like, they physically took it off and went. Yeah, I think they think it's more convenient that they hand it to you and take it off where you can sign it how you want or whatever. But, yeah. So that happened. I'll never forget. It was the Indianapolis. I think it was my very first time racing.

at Indy. And I was in my bus and there was a bunch of people outside and I went out there to sign autographs. They were waiting for autographs and somebody took their leg off and handed to me. And I was like, oh, I mean, you know, die cast, die cast, shirt, shirt, shirt, leg. And so, I mean, but once you get over that shock of or surprise, I guess, it makes sense. Oh, man. All right. This next one comes from Ted Farmer. He wants to know, what the latest is on North Wilkesboro. Well, I don't, there is no update that I, what are you shaking here for? I just texted you one.

Well, I'm looking at the text message. I'm looking at the text chain and nothing's in there. What? Are you starting a different text chain? No, it's me, me, you and Mike. Okay, well, I was in the one where it was me, you and Hannah. And now, so you got three different, he has three different texts going on. I've got like 12.

And in the middle of the show, I've got to bounce between. Shame on you. Shame on you for not knowing. Which text threads. Okay. I found it. I found it. I found it in that one, the other one. Okay. Okay. So now official today, the very first event back in August will be the smart modifies. Smart modifies and 602s and mini-stocks. Oh, all in the same trip. Yeah. Two days in a row.

So smart modifies, there'll be 50 lappers each night, 602 mods and the mini stocks. Or on August 2nd and 3rd. Later in August, the CRA super late models are going to run. The CRA street stocks are going to run. Must see sprints and a big Cars Tour event. The Cars Tour event is August 19th and 20th? Yes, it is. 19th and 20th.

So talked to Barry yesterday, and they're kind of starting to make these things official. and I know it really matters to you. And you said on the show how successful these events are. Oh, well, I won't be able to run then. So I thought that the Cars Tour Late Mile Stock Race was going to be on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So you're saying that they changed it says it on their site that it's going to be 19th and 20. Yeah, we can get it changed. I won't be able to run that one.

Come on, Dale, just get it changed. Wait, it changed once already. Well, anyhow, there's, so you, instead of me, me, you know, running through this confusion again, this text message you sent me. Where can they find information about what's happening at North Wiltsboro? As far as dates, races, laps, cars. North Wilkesboro Speedway site, they have the schedule up now. What's the website?

North Wilkesboro Speedway.com. All right. You can also go to Racetrack Revival. Yes. They have all that, too. There's schedules, tickets, the whole shebang is all on there. Awesome. All right.

So I know that they are working on the racetrack, physically working on it. I heard a rumor that they may put some sealer down on the surface as well. So that'll be interesting. They've got to get some tires. I don't know where they're going to do that. There is a massive tire shortage right now. So don't know where these tires are going to come from to be able to make all these races happen in August, but they're going to figure something out.

All right. And track walks also, by the way, open at North Wilkesboro next week if people want to go check that out. So last one here is from Pat Fan. Kev. It says, what would your biggest rich strike moment be in a sense where the odds were stacked against you and you came out on top could be a race or anything else in life? Oh. Deep one. Mm-hmm. I don't know.

See, if it's rich strike, it's got to be a win, right? Because, like, I remember races where he should have been out of it, but he came back and overcame a lot of adversities. But, man, of all your wins. I'm going to say maybe the closest one that might come to it is the the Winston All-Star race You know, we were running third, not the best, we weren't the fastest.

We were running over our, I was over my head trying to stay in it, you know, run third, I was overdriving the car, smacked the wall, obviously overdriving it, I hit the fence.

And I thought, and dad even mentioned it in Victor Lane, that when we hit the wall, we were hurting our car. And I think actually, if I had to guess, it actually made the car

faster because it, it bent the rear in housing and skewed the car. Like we run skew now, we want to run skew. The more skew the better. Well, it bent the car in a good way. And it got faster. After we hit the wall, it actually went quicker. And it became, you know, instead of driving over my head to run third,

it was, you know, I was able to get up there and be really fast. But that would be the one that would come to mind. I would say, I would make an argument that if it's truly, a rich strike type of moment. You can't do that if you're running a DEI or a Hendrick car. So you would have to even go back to his late model wins when he was probably not on anybody's radar. You weren't winning, you know, at a big clip, right? So like that would probably, you know, where your odds are more than, you know, five to one. I mean, lucky strike, a rich strike was an 80 to one, right? So that was just like, you know. I don't know that I've ever had that. Right. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it was so

unprecedented. Well, I mean, could you say maybe a couple of those Talladega, one of the Talladega wins, we had like 17 pit stops to repair damage, maybe, you know, at the, at the, at a moment in that race early on, people wrote us off. Yeah, because it looked like it was a big roll of duct tape. We lost the draft. We got a lap down. Yeah.

That's true. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. I know that fans have remarked over time about how that, you know, I'll say, man, I won that race, and they'll go, and you made 17 pit stops. I'm like, I don't even know the number. It was a lot, right.

It was a lot. So that stuck in many people's heads as a race where we overcame. This is typically where fans know more about Dale than Dale knows about Dale. So, like, is anybody mentioning events or races that we should be considering? Yeah, the Talladega one has come up a couple times. Someone said, yeah, the 2003 Talladega Spring Race. Someone also just said another one. I just missed it.

There's a lot of people chime in here. I love this Martinsville race from whatever year that was where he came back to finish fourth. And you talk about a car that looked like it belonged in a junkyard. I mean, it didn't even have a fender on it, which has probably helped it cool the brakes or something. I don't know. He came from multiple laps down at Martinsville to go finish fourth. I love that race. Hey, by the way, Dale, they are going to run late model stocks the next week.

week on a Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday. So you might have not a cars tour race. It's not cars tour, but they do say late model stocks the next week. So interesting. Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to see. Well, that is it for this week's Ask Junior. All right. Well, I appreciate everybody sending us such great questions. We had a really, really good show today. Our wide open segment was really good and me and Mike got into some we talk about the Darlington finish and and then Kyle Busch parking us car on pit road and a couple of other things but we really appreciate everything y'all do for us appreciate all the questions thanks to Xfinity for sponsoring the ass junior part of the show make sure you check out there Xfinity x-Fi

internet it's it's it's really fast Mike really really fast How fast is it? Oh, how fast? Okay, that's true. Sorry. A little slow. That's true, Dale. I never know if we're supposed to do this for live.

We're live. We have to do it regardless. So what does it matter? We're live or not live. Don't worry. I just pulled us off YouTube. I was waiting for that to happen for us to do this. We just do it.

We're just doing it. Okay. I'm just telling you the reason why I didn't go. This is great. All right, here you go. that's true you can keep your team connected with Wi-Fi coverage

that delivers the speed your devices need so your crew can stay in the fast lane on race day remember everyone to send your ask junior questions to add Xfinity racing on Twitter all right before we hit the road make sure we thank Xfinity Xfinity the Prow premiere partner of NASCAR man that's a good show Mike

except for that one part we nailed it way to go yeah all right well the rest of it was good all right well appreciate I appreciate everybody tuning in. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope you're having a good week.

You got a lot left. This weekend, I'm off. I work that derby. I'm taking a weekend off. I'm heading to my college to give a speech. That's right, right now. I'm leaving now. All right, yeah, you're doing, are you nervous?

No. All right. Bulls. I'm not. He's lying. I haven't even written my speech. Now you're like Rick Mears. Rick Mears lied?

No. Rick Mears did not understand the weight of the moment. Ever. Maybe that's it. I don't have goals in this speech tomorrow, and I'm going to encourage the students to not have goals either. Wait, is the speech tomorrow? It's tomorrow morning. Oh.

Oh, I thought you were leaving to give it now today. No, it's quite... But you're leaving early to me... I'm leaving because it's tomorrow morning. That's why you're not nervous yet. Is he going to forget to, like, put the tasso? That's why he's not nervous yet because it's not happening right now. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm course you're looking forward to it. I'm going back to my... I'm nervous for you. I'm terrified for you. Really? Yes, I'm terrified. Listen, I mean, I'm just going to get up there and just... Have you watched Marty Smith?

You got a lot to live up to. No, I haven't watched Marty Smith. You should. You have to. I have not watched Marty Smith give a commencement speech. You sure? I'm 100% sure. I feel like you have.

Where would he have done it at? His college? Yeah, Radford? I'm sure he was amazing. No, I would not go watch Marty Smith because I'm not going to go sit there and compare what... That would be an awful, awful thing. I'm not going to try to be Marty Smith.

Why wouldn't you? I would support him, but I'm not going to go try to meet that standard. He would be amazing. Yeah. He'd fire him up. God, they'd leave. Ain't that what you're going to do? They would leave the stage and go right into the workforce.

What are you planning to do? I got America. What are you planning to do? Put them to sleep? I don't. Maybe they do. We'll see. No, what is your goal?

I don't have goals. I'm like Rick Mears. It worked out well for him. Well, I know what? We're going to have. I know the conversation we're going to have on wide open next week. How did it go, Mike? We'll see.

We'll see. All right, everybody. I hope you're, I hope you have a great weekend, but no goals, okay? No goals. We'll see you. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.