The Dale Jr. Download - 385 - Jeremy Mayfield (Part Two): The Rise Before the Fall

Episode Date: June 7, 2022

In part one with Jeremy Mayfield we dove head-first into the former driver's failed drug tests, lengthy court battles, indefinite suspension from NASCAR and the tangled web of alleged conspiracy that shrouds his story. Today, Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Mike Davis speak with Mayfield about the mighty rise before his world came tumbling down. The Kentucky native started as a fabricator before working his way onto the Nashville Fairgrounds Late Model racing scene. Through hard work came opportunity. On the short track scene, Mayfield won races, even ones he wasn't supposed to be entered in. Yes, there's a story there! His short track success led to a rise into the upper-ranks of NASCAR. But at first, Mayfield didn't have the speed. So he had to get "creative" to gain and advantage. But first, he needed to get some soaked tires by NASCAR's technical inspection process. Mayfield reveals the "wink" that paved the way to furthering his young career. Mayfield opens up about negotiations with Cale Yarborough when he signed his first major deal with a NASCAR team. His timeline, though jagged, rose upward to the Kranefuss-Hass team and then to driving for the great Roger Penske. During this time, he was clearly making it know that he was a force to reckon with. An in-team rivalry with Rusty Wallace got to near ridiculous levels. The day he planted his flag in the ground was at Pocono in 2000 when he moved Dale Earnhardt, on the final corner, to win. Jeremy details the controversial tangle and what the Intimidator's reaction was the next time they saw each other. The biggest break for Mayfield came with Dodge and Ray Evernham's No. 19 team. Mayfield won races and raced his way into NASCAR's playoffs in the high-profile ride. But it wasn't without drama either. Internal struggles with Ray Evernham went public. Then, Mayfield made a final mistake. Dale Jr. gets to the bottom of what led to Mayfield's departure, and eventually led to the downfall of his racing career.  DIRTY AIRBefore getting to part-two of the Mayfield story, Dale Jr. & Mike Davis get animated discussing: A wild St. Louis Cup Series race full of its own drama Ross Chastain's post-race "trolling"? Will Denny Hamlin and Chase Elliott exact revenge? Conor Daly and Joey Mullinaro bring it in Speed Street debut.  ASKJR Presented by XfinityFan questions delivered to Dale with X-fi speed by Hannah Newhouse about: NASCAR Crown Jewels. Let's pick it and be done! The Future of the Xfinity Series. Electric? Safety response teams. Where can it improve? Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We are rolling. We're rolling. I like rolling. The following podcast is a production. Listen up. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Back again for another episode, episode 385 of the Dale Jr. download.

We're a co-host Mike. How you doing, Mike? You're doing well, buddy. So you've had a good week? Had a great week. Yeah. That's good. What did you do this weekend?

Soccer games, track meets, and, yeah. It was actually a fun week of not doing a whole week. of not doing a whole lot. Sounds busy. Yeah. We had a family reunion, the Earnhardt's, the Gurys, and the G's, everybody together. It won't. Never has this happened.

This has never happened. We're all three families. And why those three? Well, those three all kind of have in different ways like married, you know, married in, you know, they're kind of woven together, right? Wow, that sounds interesting. You all married in to the families? Well, so... How redneck.

Mike. You're talking about my family. It's really insulting. So my dad married a G. Tony Sr., a Yuri, married a G. That's right. I can lay it out for you, all of it if you want. No, it's fun.

I was joking. You're right. They did marry, what they do, marry sisters, right? They married sisters. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so Uncle Danny, my Uncle Danny, dad's brother,

married Tony Senior's sister. So they all hung out and ended up married. Ended up bringing the families together. So anyways, they're, you know, and then you got Tony Jr. crew chief and me and Tony Senior crew chief and me. And not only did, is there some marriages that link the families, but there's also some, a lot of racing and working together and all that that, like Robert G. Jr., my uncle, my mother's brother, works here at Junior Motorsports. Jimmy, his brother used to as well. So there's just a lot of connection.

But never had they all been in the same place at once unless it was for negative or bad reasons. Like they would gather to argue if I had the racetrack or find each other later at the Waffle House. But anyhow, it was a blast. It was the biggest crowd. I saw pictures. It was the biggest crowd I've ever seen at that house on the lake.

I mean, there were a lot of people. Yeah. The lakehouse is a house my mom used to live at, and so we've just hung on to it. We both keep our pontoons out at the dock, me and you. Yeah. And so it's good for that. But I sat down at a table with Tony Sr. probably for four hours. Me and him just sat there and just had conversation with other people that were coming and going to the table, but sitting with Tony Sr. I hadn't seen him in forever.

I mean, I see him every once in a while, rarely. We never get a chance to talk. So to be able to sit down and just spend that day with him was so awesome. Kids everywhere, so many kids, in and out of the pool. We had bouncy houses, all that stuff. But it was a great time. Anyways, Matthew, Hannah, they're all here today. Going to be an exciting show.

We're at the Bojangles studio. That's right. And the aroma of Cajun Filet Biscuits is in the air. Yeah. I bet everybody listening loves to hear that. That's right. Yeah, and you know what, they even taste better. Yeah.

Yeah. If they smell good, they taste better. It's awesome walking this room every time. Anyways, yeah, we've had an awesome race at St. Louis. St. Louis was pretty wild. I didn't know what to expect, to be honest with it. So that track is kind of, you know, struggled, I guess, is a way to put it. You know, hadn't had a lot of great success over the years.

I don't think we ever thought we'd go there for a cup race, but, you know, you never say never. Things change. Here we are. they had the track looked amazing the infield the facility itself they had an amazing crowd uh it was uh it was all all the ingredients and pieces were there uh when that race went green for a uh a fantastic experience and a fantastic day and all that needed all they needed all that was left was for there to be a good product on the racetrack and um i wasn't 100% sure when they took off and went under went green kind of got strung out there

wasn't a whole lot going on, and then Chastain run over Denny Hamelin. And from that moment on, the race turned, took a different turn. Then you had Denny trying to, you know, just hassle Chastain for the rest of the race, which was very entertaining. And then you had Chase Elliott get run into or whatever happened with him and Chastain, and Chase's crew chief, you know, is on the radio. telling Chase like look you know we get the opportunity to to park him you make it count right and chase tried shoved him down into one he got him pretty good he saved it hit him again in the

middle of one and he i think he might have hit the wall but he saved it whatever um and then he swip at him as he's going by too all all in the same corner yeah and then you're like well you know Chase that was okay wasn't quite what I think the doctor ordered wasn't quite what was what was requested but um because Alan his crew chief don't do he'll play no he don't he's like I want him in the fence

you bet you felt that first person haven't you and yeah I don't think Chase I don't think Chase gave him what he asked for no chase gave but Chase put an effort in there not good enough not good enough And so, minutes later, Ross is passing Chase, and they get together again, and B.J. McLeod's running in the back of chase, and I'm about spinning him out. And then BJ gets out after the race, and he's like, they're messing up.

They're messing up somebody else's race. Man, I know we ain't racing in the top five, but damn, they almost cost me a race car. He don't never get a chance to complain soon. This was his first opportunity in a long time. Yeah. He was exaggerating a good bit. Just for fun. Yeah.

And so I'm wondering in that moment when Ross is feeding it back to Chase if Alan's sitting on the pit box going, if we'd have finished him off the first time, we wouldn't be sitting here doing this. Do they still have Channel 2? Oh, yeah. I would love to hear Alan's Channel 2. Yeah, those moments? Yeah, yeah. Not good enough.

Going to need a hit him harder than that. Tell him, tell him, spotter. Tell him getting, I mean, you know, you can't be like so direct. Alan don't mess around. I would go so far. You would agree this. Ross Chastin hasn't been paid back yet, right? No, he hasn't.

By either. Nope. Denny or Chase. He still got him coming. Yeah, I think so. The teams were left unsatisfied. I agree. So this is the interesting part for me.

And so you get, you know, while all this is happening, we're reading comments on social media because I'm not listening to the radio but we're reading comments on social media about what Ross is saying and what Denny's saying about these dustups, right? So, Ross comes over the radio

and says, I hope NASCAR and boys in the towers proud of their superstars, you know, when Denny's trying to run him into the grass on the back straightaway, right? So Ross has, Ross's reaction to that is, well, I hope NASCAR's proud of their superstars, look how they're acting, right? and so Ross is annoyed by what Denny's doing, right?

As he should be, I mean, Denny's trying to annoy him, right? So it's working. And so, but then Ross gets out after the race and says, oh, I should have learned. I'm terrible. I'm just a terrible driver today. It was so self-deprecating and hard on himself. Over the top, it was weird, right?

It was so weird. I'd never heard. I'm like, well, this is a change. I don't usually hear this from drivers taking What is this responsibility For their actions What is this? I don't think I like it

I don't So it's like the guy who was You know A kid somebody Boy walks into the 7-Eleven And shop lifts and walks out And you catch him red hand And he goes

Ah yeah, I shouldn't have done that I Darn I know I messed up Yep you got me while all the while he's trying to walk off with that piece of candy he picked up he's like man if I profusely apologize maybe I get to keep this candy you think that's wrong that's how you interpreted Ross chestace all right well his his words after the race were bull's oh wow now come on now he was he was taking responsibility he did but then he poured

it on so thick it was like he's almost like don't know, man. I don't know. He was a step away from going, I'm going to wreck myself next week just to pay me back for all my wrong doings. At one point, I almost thought he might be mocking us or something. I don't know. He's trolling us. Like BJ McLeod. Bej and Ross were in on it together. They were trolling us the whole time. I think it got so thick there with his, he was going on and on and just repeating himself at times. Now, can I pose a scenario for you? could he have been sincere? Yes. Okay. So we're giving him at least an out. He could have really felt that way.

I absolutely think. He basically said, I'm not a good driver. It's what he said. He goes, did he not? He's like, I'm paid to pay these. Do I think he believes that? No. No, he does not believe that.

That is not a sincere statement from him because he knows that that is untrue. He said, I should be able to drive in there and not run over people. I mean, like, this is what he was saying, right? Yeah. He's not wrong. No, no, no. So I think that he, so the, the tease this week will be me saying it is all bullshed. At least we all agree on that.

Yeah. I think that he knows that he did wrong. I think that he knows he part, you know, he knows that what he did to Denny was not okay. but I don't think that he has genuine sorrow over it. Because of the way he runs the rest of the race, the way his words over the radio. Nothing over the radio was like egregious or crazy. It's just like you can tell in the moment he's not like super apologetic about it or, you know,

oh, shit, man, I messed up guys, guys tell him I messed up, man. That's right. There's a good point you just made that. So drivers do tell your spotters hey, tell him I'm sorry. this, that, and the other. This happens on the track. You're right. He continues around the racetrack running.

I don't know what he said on the radio. I don't know everything. But when Denny's annoying him later, he's like, boy, what, you know, hope, look at this guy. I hope NASCAR's proud of their superstars. What's this guy doing? And then he gets out and goes, my, I'm so terrible. I'm so sorry.

I should have. It just was so, he was back. You know, it was like Jekyll and Hyde. I don't. Wait a second, though. You are acting as if you drive, all of you drivers. are just rational all the time and not spontaneous in your thoughts

and just all over it. You're all bipolar. Yeah, okay. Well, he was having one of them moments. So I think that he knows he knows what's right or wrong on the racetrack. I don't think that he has that much, I don't think that he shoulders that much guilt

about what happened as he expressed post-race. I think that he poured it on really thick. Maybe he's feeling some guilt. and just, you know, poured it on thick. I think he goes home and goes, yeah, you know, I'm over it in a few hours. I don't, you know. Listen, I like, I want, I want it to continue. All right.

I don't want Ross to get, I don't want Ross to figure it out and get straightened up or whatever the hell is going to happen. Right. I want him to not change a thing. Yeah, because he had developed a persona of just going out there and racing aggressively. Some good words that I heard. So, yeah, I don't want him to wreck anyone specifically. Right.

It's not that I enjoyed him wrecking just Denny or that I want to see him wreck the superstars. I just want him in some controversy. If he's not doing that in that race, I don't know that we love that race that much. Because I'm telling you, when that happened, when that happened on the racetrack, I think everybody's brains flipped to like, ooh, this is interesting. And then we were kind of captivated by all the other. shenanigans that were happening the rest of the day and a lot of them were due to things that were involved in chastain i don't i don't really want him to dial it back

and i saw a great analogy of uh i saw a great analogy of ross chastain and i believe this is pretty close he's he's uh codac number four ernie irving so when ernie got in the 28 we remember ernie a lot from that particular part of his career he kind of clean it up you know he got around some people i guess and got in the car and cleaned it up quite a bit boy but that first year or two in the orange number four uh he had drivers in the drivers meeting standing up going you got to turn you know you got to figure this out man you're reckless that's right like in the front of all the drivers russie wals and those guys are standing up going oh i don't want to name any names here but i'm looking at you you're you're out of hand you know that's who he is

to me. Rhymes was swerving. Right. That's who he is to me. Who, Ernie, we all love, right? Yeah. We can, we, Ross can do these things, be crazy, and we can appreciate it to a point, right? Now, you know. That's, listen, that's a great analogy because when Ernie Irvin stood up in the driver's meeting and apologized, it was sort of like a, wait a second, we had this, don't do that, we had this thing going. It wasn't a bad thing. Don't change. Yeah, we talked smack to You're Ernie, but listen, this is part of the game, man. Don't apologize. That's right.

And we're talking, I'm talking smack here saying his comments at the race are bull. But honestly, I don't want him to change. And I read some comments from Justin Mark post-race where Justin backs his driver. He says, I didn't see Ross Chastain do a darn thing wrong today. I don't want him to change his aggression at all. and when he matches his talent and aggression, he'll be a champion. And he shouldn't do a thing different going forward. I think that's pretty cool to have his owner, especially for us fans that want to see,

like I'm telling you, there was other races. I like that about Justin. Thank you, Justin. Get into his ear. Keep him going. Keep him pushing. We need these guys to be, you know, be physical out on that racetrack. There was another race.

It was the All-Star race. All right, so this is a great example of NASCAR racing with and without Ross Chastain. All right, so if you go back to the All-Star race, none of us really want to do that. But if we go back and think about that race, right, there was a moment early on after the first stage where Ross Chastain had worked his way up into the mix and was getting pretty physical with these guys. And it was getting interesting. They've been a dull, boring first stage. And then Ross was up there banging fenders with people and we're like, all right, now, here we go.

This is what we need. And then they crashed and there was no more Ross. And then that was pretty much the rest of the race. So that's a great sort of, if you pull Ross out of the St. Louis race, what do you have? Yeah. So, I mean, if we can get a couple more Rosses in there. I mean, not just, let's not just try to worry about this one, Ross.

Let's get a few more of them Rosses in there and have a few more. Four guys banging around. All right. Now, let me tell you where the bull was. It wasn't with what Ross said. Okay. I'm about just tired of these drivers acting big and bad and everything. I'm going to wreck them.

I got paying back. I'm not going to tell you a winner. Please. I'm waiting. Denny, chase your own notice. Let's see. Are you really going to pay him back or is it all talk? I swear, all you drivers are sit there and talk, I'm going to pay him back.

I'm going to do this, and it never happens. Matt Kenseth, made it happen. Jimmy Spencer, made it happen. But there are a few drivers out there that will actually say it and eventually do it. So they just don't need to say it. If they're not going to do it, because I don't think that, listen, you're not, I think what you're saying is that I'll talk back. You're not saying go out there and wreck them.

No, but if you're going to sit there and be big and bad in front of the camera and all that they've been playing in front of the crowd, then, you know, very rarely do I see them actually live up to their words. Well, I think that after you've seen what happened to Matt, nobody's going to do that unless they are just, they've lost their mind, right? Which can happen, right? Drivers lose their mind. But they will put that in the back of their mind and have every, they have, they have, they, Denny and Chase, they, right now, they have every intention of backing up what they said. Okay.

It's will you get that opportunity? Will you find yourself entering turn one right on the bumper that one car with an opportunity to spin him out on a silver platter? That's not likely to happen. It's not happening every week, and they got a half a season left. They may never be in that scenario where they can just punt him out of the way. I mean, listen, if you're going to sit there and say it, then yeah, then you know you're not going to be able to get away with it. Now we're all watching.

That's why they very rarely live up to their words, because they know that if they do it, now it's intentional. Then comes a suspension or a fine and all that comes with it. I think you have to wait a while. You have to wait a couple weeks. And then if you run into him and wrecking, NASCAR has this thing where they go, I can't really tell whether that was on purpose or not.

Like what you did to Kyle Bush. They do that with the self-spins. Like, you can absolutely tell a guy just spun his car out on purpose and they go, well, we weren't in there. We weren't, we weren't watching him. It's possible. He didn't tell us he was going to do it. So that's kind of the way they treat these type of things is, like, you know,

don't do it when you, like Denny Hamlin puts out that video this morning where the Days of Thunder. You remember, uh, change my tires? Tom Cruise comes down, pit road and says, change my tires and they're like, what for man? Raises over, buddy. Change my tires. And he goes out there and wrecks Russ Wheeler.

Yes. Well, Denny and his team recreate the video where Denny comes down, pit road, change my tires. And he goes out there and he just annoys Ross. Doesn't wipe him out. I was like, man, I don't remember him wiping him out Russ Wheeler style.

Wait, what's this? And the end of the video is just Denny kind of annoying him like a nap. good social engagement but please i mean yes spares the analogy there not the same not the same it's not what you do i thought it was so sly i thought like i'm not talking about social media i'm not talking about social media but i thought it was so damn sly how he annoyed the crap out of him well it showed me that that denny and and chase are willing to do something yeah listen that's all fine annoy them but the fact is is that when you get out afterwards and say he's got one coming he ain't

going to finish the race when it happens. Yeah, right, right, bra, bra, br, br, brach, brer, and then it's like, okay, well, now we're going to watch, and I bet you at the end of the year, there'll be too much on the line for Denny to go do that. Yeah. You know, like, this was your chance. I don't know. I think there's chances.

We'll be watching. I think we'll see. Alan Gustafsson's watching. You dang right. I think there's, there was, I feel like there was another scenario where Alan asked Chase to handle something and it didn't quite get handled the way I think Alan. was insinuating. And I have to wonder at this point is Alan sitting in a room somewhere with Chase this week going,

hey, look, do you need some advice on how to wreck people? Because I've asked you a couple times now. And so I wouldn't be surprised to see Chase do something down the road, if only to prove himself to his crew chief, right? he has a little bit of a bravado on the line where I think Denny made the comment that I think yeah we're definitely going to have to get him back and it might come down the road when it matters and there will be a scenario where the one car is in the playoffs and it's a cut race elimination race or whatever and it's a late restart and Denny's not a factor in the playoffs anymore

or he's already locked in going to the next round with a win something like that where he makes it even hard he makes it nearly impossible for ross and takes his ruins his season you don't have to wreck a guy to get him back entirely i guess right you want to see him you want to see him crashed no i want to see him back up his words his own words if he said after the race that's uncalled for and i'm going to go mess up his season by nagging him then that's what he's going to do good go do it but if you're going to sit there i'm just saying these drivers talk big in their interviews but they rarely back it up well we'll see see. But that's all I'm saying. I love it, man. What a compelling storyline.

I know. It was fun. Yes. That is fun. Don't stop. Keep it going. When you get, when you got a spotter or a crew chief, especially the crew chief, when they're egging you on to do it, it absolutely influences you to probably do something in that moment. Whereas, you know, if nobody says anything, you run a few laps, like Danny's out there running many laps off the pace, right? And slow. If nobody ever says anything, Denny probably does all he does on Sunday. But if his crew chief is going, hey, when that guy comes, I want him in the fence. I don't care of whatever you got to do.

You're going to take care of this right here right now. If that's happening over the radio, Denny probably does hit him because Denny's been told and Denny wants to do what his crew chief is asking him to do because Denny and him are a brotherhood. They're a marriage, you know. and if his crew chiefs like, hey man, take care of this right now. More than likely Denny does more than what we saw on Sunday. But if the radio stays silent and there's nobody pushing Denny,

Denny does what he wants to do, which is just aggravate the guy. And he cost him many spots throughout the day by just ignoring him getting in his way. And the fact that Ross was nervous to even pass Denny, and the idea or the chance that Denny might spin him out was, good enough for Denny. Then he was in his head. And that's all that Denny cared about was like, man, every time he comes up here, he's going to be off the throttle and like, oh, shit, how do I get around him?

And I'm losing spots. And then he's like, damn, this is easy. I don't even have to touch him. And so, but I think if a crew cheese on the radio, it absolutely encourage you to get truly physical. And then also think about this. You've got a, you know, the NASCAR fan base, you've got people, if you're watching social or reading the comments,

listening to, you know, XM radio, whatever, and your fans are saying, he better take care of this. You know they're watching you every single week. You know that they're waiting on you to stand up and be a man. All those things are

influential in the decisions you make when your opportunity is sitting there in front of you to pay this guy back. Other than when you paid back Kyle Bush at Richmond, did Tony Jr. or Tony Sr. ever put the the the onus on you to go pay somebody back? Nope. I don't think they did there.

I think it was more. No, no, they didn't there. I think they would, I think the fan base influenced that because they were like, ma'am, I want you, put him in every week. Everyone wanted that. Every week that I went to the racetrack, put cobblish in the wall. That's right. Every week.

That's right. It was multiple, multiple people saying it as you're moving around the racetrack throughout the weekend on Friday or Saturday practicing. Put cobblish in the wall. Put him in the wall. of all. No, I remember. That's all that Denny's going to hear for the next several months.

But Chastain in the fence! Yeah. Go win, but wrecked Chastain. That's right. That's right. Yeah, but you never had orders from crew chiefs or anything like that. I don't remember that. Yeah.

I mean, but if Tony Sr. had said to do something, by God, I was going to do it. If Tony Sr. got mad, it was usually at you. Yeah. About something you did. He was going to have your ass after race. That's right. Not another driver's. Well, last thing here, kind of before we transition into part two, we, you guys announced Speed Street last week with Connor Daly,

Joey Molenaro, and I watched the first episode, and there was shenanigans beyond all. It was super fun between Daly's party, where I don't know if you've met Faroochie, but he literally invites him to the party and then tells Faroochie that he doesn't like him at the party. Oh, my. Oh, yeah. It was super, super funny. And obviously they called the Rossi to McLaren News, which was kind of cool.

That's right. It was awesome to see that, you know, first week out, that episode did awesome. So wait, when he tells Faroochi that he doesn't like him, what does Faroochie do? It was actually a respect thing. Like Connor told him, Connor said he showed up at the party and he told him, hey, man, I'm just going to tell you, I don't like you at all. And Faroochie was like, okay, and he was like, but I respect you, you know, and Furucci was like, all right. So my take on this? Did he hang out?

Did he leave? No. He hung out. He said his boys, Ferruci's boys. and Conner's boys, Connor said he was afraid that at one point they were going to get into a tussle. There was alcohol involved in that.

It's good. The podcast is loving it. The first show with our puns good. I love it. You know, I was watching a little bit of the indie race this past weekend in Detroit, and I was looking at driver intros. And just, they throw this shot of Connor

in the back of a, like a corvette or whatever, whatever it is. And he's got that grin, and he waves at the camera. And I'm just thinking, God, even that is hilarious to me. It's always like he's up to something. He's up to something.

It's just funny to me. And that's why I think personally maybe, and who knows between the on-track stuff, but Faroochi and Daly probably are like opposing because they have very similar personalities. Like Faroochie is like always up to something, pulling shenanigans. He's one of my favorite interviews because he's just whiling out. Like we did the pit stop challenge and we gave him the microphone for some reason to track PA. like 250,000 people. And he's telling people to shotgun beers and woo girl and people.

And I was like, all right. Faroochie's a good time too. But it was, it was awesome to see even the response that Speed Street got on Twitter from that first episode. Like, this is just the beginning. It got in the top 25 on Apple Sports Podcast,

which is an amazing launch. As far as us, I know that they didn't launch their own podcast, but with us, it was a heck of a start. And so, yeah, it was, I love Joey.

I love Connor. I think we're going to have a lot of fun with them. All right, time for our guest segment of the day, presented to you by Ally. And Allies joined us earlier this year to support our podcast. They've been a great partner of mine for a couple years now. I had a lot of fun working with them. So we thank them for everything they do.

It's awesome to have great allies in your life, Mike, professionally and personally. And we know many. But they bring to us part two of the Germany-May-Firm. field interview and after listening to part one i mean the whole conversation with germy was pretty interesting obviously you know i just i think i you know obviously i didn't know everything and and we still don't know everything about what happened with jeremy but um i guess kind of what haven't read all of the comments on social media about it um i was just kind of interested on how

what you thought about going into the interview what you thought about going into the interview what you you thought and then after listening to Jeremy and, you know, all the other things that have come to like through social media in the comment section and so forth. What's your, what's your opinion? I didn't really go look at what most people said on social media. I needed a few days to decompress and kind of process everything that we heard. And I will tell you that my theory did change a little bit on Jeremy Mayfield. I think it's, you know, a lot of people, in most stories, you want to look at who was right, who was wrong, who screen. up who did right and I don't think I think it's possible that everybody did something wrong in this

story I don't know that there was a good guy versus bad guy in this I think everybody had flaws it's quite possible nobody's innocent do I think Jeremy Mayfield failed a drug test yes do I think Jeremy Mayfield has taken methamphetamines in his life probably I don't know I have no idea how could we know I don't know it's probable I I can say that. It's just an opinion. Do I think Dr. Black is suspicious? Yeah, I do.

Do I think Brian France is suspicious? Yeah, I do. I think that it's quite possible that he acted illogically based off of a personal vendetta or just anger because, quite honestly, we've seen it. We've seen it ourselves. He almost suspended you for something you said at Talladega. We were like, wait a second. Suspension? What the heck?

When he gets mad about something, it's certainly at that time. it's likely that he has an adverse reaction to it and we'll do it will flex and so I think that this was absolutely a case the one thing I lacked I'll say this the one thing I lacked before the interview last week was I didn't understand or I didn't think there was a motive by NASCAR to really ostracized Jeremy Mayfield yeah and I also thought the timing was suspicious or didn't make sense after the interview I got that answered I got a motive and I the time makes sense to me. The timeline makes sense to me because ending Jeremy Mayfield when he was still a Dodge driver and an Everingham driver meant that other people were going to suffer the

repercussions of that, not just Jeremy. But then when he went independent, oh, well, the dominoes started falling quickly when he went independent. I don't think that that's a coincidence. And then the motive, well, Jeremy Mayfield burned just about every bridge he had along the way. In fact, the biggest one happens in today's part two interview. Like I think that what you hear, if you listen to this interview, this is the rise of Jeremy. But you'll start to see things that he did and fess up to saying, I messed up here. I think he started creating situations where people were ready to end his, they were going to rid themselves of the Mayfield problem. I think there was a Mayfield problem and he ended.

So I just think that I think the new drug policy by NASCAR had many holes in it. I don't think it was right. But I also don't think NASCAR would have ever come out and just said, oh, we messed this part up. Nope, don't think. I just think that everybody had flaws in this one. Yeah, I do too. I don't know that, I don't think that NASCAR was really out to get Jeremy.

I think that they believed without question that Jeremy was guilty of failed drug test and that they were right and that he was wrong. and I think that NASCAR was probably NASCAR was not in the drug policy or drug testing business, right? They were taking advice and direction from those that are or were at the time. And so they're just getting, they're hearing this information from Dr. Black and all these people going, well, it's the experts, this is what they're saying. So this is, we're going to, we're behind this, right?

And so, you know, I don't, I don't think that, I think that there were some people in the industry, like you mentioned, that were absolutely disgusted with Jeremy Mayfield, and just he had done so many things over the more recent times in his cup career toward the end there, that they were, you know, they were over it and angry with him. But I think, you know, I don't know that I'm convinced that NASCAR acted unethically. in handling the initial part of his drug tests and the failed drug test and going to court and trying to fight that,

I think that they believed in their minds that they were right and that Jeremy was wrong. I don't know that we'll ever know about Jeremy and meth and what he did or didn't do. And I don't know that that, I don't know that I can care about that at this point. Right. I do think that once Jeremy lost his livelihood and his ability at a steady income. He had to make some different, difficult decisions, some hard decisions.

And I think some of those hard decisions put him in some questionable company. And I think that those hard decisions and difficult choices he had to make also brought on the raid and all those other things that happened to him. And that he bears some responsibility for making those decisions. and he brought all that on himself when things got tight, right? You know, and I hope that the Jeremy that we saw or we see or we interview, I hope that this germy is beyond all that. You know, but we hear him talking about, well, I don't really know what my next movie is,

or I'm not, I don't, I'm not doing anything consistent professionally, and I'm trying to look for that next opportunity. So I think that hard decisions are still, in his future. And I just hope that after everything he's been through, he won't put himself in these scenarios where he has to make the wrong decision to try to squeak one by

or try to skirt the system or cut a corner to where he brings more negativity and problems into his life. And so I'm into redemption, second chances and all those things, underdogs, which he's made himself an underdog after all this, unlikely to rebound,

that type of deal. You know, and I want to believe that everybody's got good in them, right? Everybody's got that, everybody can turn it around, right? And so I guess, you know, some people can see the flaws in Jeremy and just say,

he's done. I got no time for it. Where I want to believe that he's going to figure out how to exist, right, without creating more and more problems for him down the road. And hopefully his opportunity to come out here and tell his side of it, I don't know what that does for him going forward, if anything at all. It's not the first podcast or interview he's done since 2009,

and all this went down. I mean, he's done many, but hopefully he gets a good response from it, and it gives him some confidence moving forward. I think listeners, you know, reading comments and so forth, felt like we kind of went easy on him. I think that... Oh, do they? Yeah, I think that some people felt like we went a little easy on him.

I think there's... People have to understand that when you bring somebody in the room like that, that you don't want to... You don't want them to feel like they've got to come in here and convince the whole room. You know, there's more than just me and you in here. And whatever me and you were saying, they're going to assume that everyone else in here is on board with that, right?

And so you don't want somebody to come in here and sit down and feel like they've got to convince the whole room of something. And we definitely didn't want to put Jeremy in that scenario right out of the gate and him become either, you know, him get guarded, not want to discuss or open up, or him get defensive, combative, or whatever. which could possibly happen. And at the end of the day, we want to, we want to deliver a good podcast. And if he's having trouble or being comfortable in this room or in this scenario, then it's probably not going to happen.

And so. You get the wrong two people to do it, by the way, if that's what people expect it. We're not interrogators. No. I mean, like, it's not what we, we never claimed to be. But we were curious about the things that I think everybody else is curious about. And so we asked those questions. There's one question I wish we would have asked.

We didn't. I wish we would have just asked him, hey, have you ever done drugs? Have you ever done, you know, that we're not prescribed? I think, though, we know what he was going to say. Of course we know what he was going to say, which gets to the other part where people are like, well, you know he was lying to you. But listen, we're not lie detectors. We're just, we're having a conversation.

Yeah. We don't know. You said it at the front. We don't know. You said it to Jeremy. I don't know if you're really telling the truth. but I don't really care about that part. People need to not miss that.

They need to really hear that. We're not trying to sit there and say, you're lying. U-S-O-B. Now, tell me the real truth here. How could we? But this was a chance to give him a platform to speak his mind. He didn't need to do it. I'm sure he was ready to put this behind him.

Yeah. It's what we asked him. Like, are you trying to still clear your name, or is you just ready for this to be over? I left with a bigger appreciation for Jeremy Mayfield. I really did. I didn't know him, but I thought we got everything that we tended to get out of it, really, frankly. Yeah.

Well, I think it was interesting to when you see a guy wearing a uniform and say, let's look at Jeremy in the middle of his heyday, you know, wearing Ray Everingham's red uniform walking around. You think that guys like that that are in that scenario would, are, they've got it made. they are on they are on they are on they are they are sailing across the sea without a worry in a world and what we've learned and I think what what this is an example of is that that person you saw on TV and in pictures and during interviews is is a flawed person yeah you know and and can in a scenario you know in a bad scenario when things get tight make some difficult bad decisions some decisions he shouldn't make and so you know nobody's like Jeremy said he's like you know

you're one decision away from the bottom you know and it was multiple things that sent him to the bottom but that first decision was the beginning of it right and and I think that that even for someone that was in his situation I mean it's like how could you do that to yourself right and how could you how could you send yourself to the bottom like he did but um it's easier to do than I think a lot of people think. The craziest thing he said, I told you this afterwards, the craziest thing he said is what you're about to hear today. He said something in today's interview that I was like, what? You did what? Yeah. Like I could not believe what he did. And I just leave it at that. That was the one that stunned me. And then also it sort of influenced my new worldview about the

Mayfield case of the fall. Like I think it starts to make sense again. But like I couldn't, And he even said, I did mess up. And it had nothing to do with drug tests. It had everything to do with back in his Everingham days. Yeah, it's going to be a pretty interesting interview. We talk about how he gets his start and then going through his cup career. And some of the, yeah, some of the, we talk about basically all the bridges that get burned. And what, you know, we, in a perfect, in a perfect world, you know, you would probably put the drug issues and all the, everything that.

that led up to today on the back end of that story because that's the that's the timeline but you know you guys we knew you were going to we're going to want that one story first yeah that's right that's right what we're going to do go two hours on it on you know on Pocono and the record of her there is one more thing i think we should just clarify i mean i was talking to ryan mcgee on the phone and mcgee had given me a piece of information that i thought was important we had thought that NASCAR instituted the drug policy based off of stuff that happened in other sports. But McGee was telling me the thing that really kind of triggered that whole drug policy, you know, coming into the sport was because of a race car driver.

Dang it, I've already forgot his name again. Are you sure you got the right name? I don't know. You don't want to make a mistake. You're right. I don't want to make a, that's a good point. There was a race car driver that admitted being under the influence of drugs during a race and actually finishing well.

and that that was sort of a waking up that, like, wait a second, we cannot have this. Which, of course, you can't have that, right? You cannot have that. So that was something that we were just trying to, almost speculating because we couldn't remember in the last week's episode as we had Mayfield at the table. But so there is that. Yeah, I mentioned that NASCAR had started the policy because of what was happening outside of the NASCAR world, but in other sports. and you have new information that it was actually within, you know, within NASCAR.

Yeah. There was some things happening, and so they created the policy then. All right, before we get to Mayfield Part 2, let's take a listen to this. NASCAR said you failed a test going into Richmond. Last week on the Dell Jr. download, a conversation with Jeremy Mayfield.

Well, we're sitting in the trailer, like he said, sweat pouring off all of us, you know, walk up there and the guy hands you a cup. And here, you know, he's got paperwork scattered all over the, all over his desk and everything else. Going to the bathroom and he goes, oh, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. So I turn around, open the door back up and walk back out. Let me see the cup. You need to wash your hands first.

Okay, he's going to wash my hands, you know. I didn't know what it's supposed to do, you know. Go back out. Here you go, here's your cup back. You know, he hands your cup, and then you go pee in the cup, you know. That's wrong. Yeah, it's all wrong, you know, and I found that out after. It's just a mess, what I seen.

The media would go to NASCAR, the media would go back to you, the media would go back to NASCAR. And then in the courts, you were like, I ain't doing road to recover because I didn't do nothing. Right. Right. You had that stance throughout the whole thing, and you lost everything. You died on that hill. Your career died on that hill, and you were hard-headed.

Yeah. When you say hard-headed, I do feel like I was hard-ed in a lot of ways on that, you know. But it's what I believe in. I was taking Adirond. I didn't know Adderall was a bad thing. You know, I didn't know, and I didn't know that we could not take it because there was no list and there wasn't it. They just said when you start taking something, as you remember, I'm sure the meeting we had, then let us know when they tested.

You know, if we got tested. I got a doctor's prescription here. Everything's right. Everything's supposed to be like it is. And all of a sudden, you know, they say I'm positive on a drug test. Well, and I'm hoping that they would say what they should have said is, okay, we don't want you taking Adderon anymore or declared to me or whatever was. Immediately he said, oh, that's not good. The person in your age shouldn't be taking Adderon.

You know, I said, okay, I won't take it anymore. You know, no big deal, none whatsoever. And I said, and I was taking my Claritin D. You know, I'm with it. Just letting you know that. And he said, oh, now we've got a problem. Eventually, NASCAR said you felt a second drug test. You were at that time then trying to go get your own independent test done as well.

You know, it just didn't make sense to me, you know. And then I thought, well, the justice system, I didn't want to fight it, first of all. We went, we went to sit down with them and said, hey, you know, this is. Sit down with NASCAR. and we said we don't want to go through this. You know, we just, just tell us what you want us to do, you know. Well, and Dr. Black was starting on, well, you need to go to road recovery and this, that, and the other. Supposedly, I was, according to Dr. Black, was getting, you know, pumped up for qualifying or whatever he said it was, but stimulated or whatever.

But there was some other issues going on in other sports, and the media was like, well, what about NASCAR? How do you know there's not any problems? You don't have a policy. Boom, here's our policy. We got this new policy. And all the drivers were like, all right, well, none of us taking drugs, right? So, like, no problem. And, but it was all so kind of vague as they were rolling it out.

He raises his hand. Carl's like, what about, you know, what about these over the count of drugs that are on our race cars, right? What about these, you know? And they really weren't clear on what to tell you about that. Right. You know, and I think at that time, we all were, like, skeptical about, like, what you were going through with a day. This testing policy was legit, was genuine? Were they possibly picking up, you know,

Clarity D and Adderall and things like that and not sure whether they were illegal drugs or was it this prescription right? We weren't sure. None of us felt safe. You don't sue NASCAR and get a, you know, attorney out of Charlotte, you know what I mean? And I should have known that to start with,

and I did, I just didn't, I just didn't want to pay an attention, you know? Oh, you think, so you're saying that just, There was somebody at NASCAR got to him? Pretty much. Yeah, I'll go and say that, you know. When they, he said, here they come. It was all blacked out, just AR-15s just, I mean, just coming from everywhere. You know, on the far, you know, dun-da-dun all this stuff, you know.

There's no sheriff, nothing on her suit, just all black, camouflage, black, faces covered. You know, running side by side and they had the big thing that opened, you know, that slammed the door open and pouring all the cereal out of the, you know, out of the boxes and grabbed her and threw her. down she just got out of the shower got her in handcuffs you know face planting to the floor for no reason he's going to kill my dog he was barking so if you don't shut your dog we're going to kill your dog and uh shows me a search warrant so we had a search warrant search of property looking for a stolen piece of scrap metal and like a plate 12 by 12 or 14 by 12 steel plate they want to be open my safe up nowhere on the on the search warrant said we're looking for you know willing to get your safe or search you safe or anything I was looking for a stolen piece of scrap metal so um we walked back in there

open safe up. They said, okay, now you need to go. Go back on front porch. One of the detectives did, and he said, and I need to see you for a second. So I walked over the side. And he had his hand like this, and you can see like plastic on the other end of,

just barely a piece of plastic sitting. He said, you know what I got here in my hand? I said, no. He said, we found meth and you're safe. I said, you didn't find meth in my safe. You had two hours to get to the lab to do the test, but it was seven hours. later and you were you said you were lost you couldn't get there and they took it as if i if i'm

remembering this right they took it as well this is a tactic set by somebody that doesn't want to be tested what is your explanation right so i call my turning he said just sit tight don't do anything just don't do nothing you know because he didn't know what to do you know we're back and forth when they sent somebody out they were determined that they were going to you know do the test that's when we set up the one for 20 minutes later you know the first time we went to court you know Brian Francis was in there, you know, and Helton was there, you know, and all the guys. And I told Mike, it's like, I don't want this. You know, I don't want to do this.

I want to work something out here. I don't want to have to say anything about it because NASCAR wasn't ever bad to me, you know. It's been great to me. Talking about it getting personal, you said on another podcast that you got, during all this, that you got a phone call from Brian's ex. He was going through a divorce. Brian Francis' X, right? Yeah, Brian Francis' ex called you her and her attorney to give you some information

that you thought they thought you'd need to hear. Right, and that's another reason why I stuck it out, you know, because then I found out what was really going on. She started asking me questions. It was like, well, you know, at India, in 05 or 06, whatever it was, did you get black flag for no reason and this, that, and the other? And so I started thinking back, and then she said, well, so-and-so doesn't, didn't like you calling out the owners, basically.

And I didn't really call out, right. You know, I just talked to press one day and it came out on paper that I did, but I didn't call him out, you know. So she started saying all this stuff that her ex-husband, which was Brian, you know, didn't, that I was nothing more than the laborer, none of the drivers were. We're just laborers and his owners are the important part of this whole deal. The laborers can come and go, you know, and he didn't like me calling out, right, basically, you know. That gave you more confidence in the idea that this was personal. Right. I was mad.

You know, I was pissed off and probably done some things, said some things I shouldn't have said, you know, during that period. He didn't want to hear it. You know, it's just going to be, this is what's going to happen. And they're going to, now that you sued us, we're just going to make you kill your credibility and just wear you down to nothing, basically. You know, and that's what happened. I just felt like I was blackballed. I don't know what you're wanting to do or trying to do beyond this, but I think that you can. And like you went to Nashville, had a great experience.

You saw some people you hadn't seen in a long time. Men and Fences is always a great idea. If you've got some people that you think might not be real happy with you, it's always good to try to fix that when you can. It's not necessary, but I bet it felt good that you and Ray are at least on talking terms. Oh, yeah, definitely. And I think when you see, I think you can go in and around the industry and to races and to the, you know, and wherever people.

that you worked with in the past might be and you'll get a great reception right you know I really do yeah and this and it's been like that a lot of places you know so far everywhere I've been has been really good you know we didn't even get into wrecking the intimidator yeah wrecking dad and and all of that stuff well I mean so first off I want to know how you ended up racing late models at Nashville so talk about you know apparently you took because the Saddlers had a car and you took it and raced it and they didn't know you was doing that or something. So give me the whole rundown of how you were a fabricator. Yeah.

So could, like a good fabricator? Not really. Not at the time. I wouldn't bring. Crush panels? Yeah. You know, and a little bit of aluminum welding, that kind of stuff, you know. Because everything was fabricating back then.

Right. And, you know, Saddlers had a small team in Nashville, Tennessee. And they, one or two guys working for them. What I think Ken Reagan drove for them and, you know, several drivers like that. Sterling, Marlin started out there. So I was in Nolnsboro racing my late model there. You had your own car? Yeah, it was pretty much like an outlaw car.

You know, you can run anybody you want to run on it, any motor you want to run it, long as it wasn't aluminum. Dirt pavement? Yeah, Kentucky Motor Speedway. And all the Louisville guys would come down, Frank Kimmel and that whole group he had, you know. And they'd all come down to race there. And I was the only one from the area that had that race late models. So they would come down and we'd race hard every week, you know, and beat and bang and everything.

And then were you winning? Yeah, we were good? Oh yeah, we're doing real good. We won, like, nine out of the last 11 races with them, you know, against all those guys. There's about 20 or 30 of them. Besides you, was there any racing in your family? Yeah, my uncle, not really, not in professional, you know, but my uncle had a late model one time. Right.

My dad raced a little bit, and that's about it. So that's how you got into it? Yeah. Because you grew up around a little bit? Yeah, just grew up around it. And, you know, watching the Daytona 500 every year and we come on and Kelly Arboral and your dad and everybody else, you know, and Darrell Walter, because he was from there. So just basically just won the rates, you know. And Owensboro is a small town that doesn't have a lot going on for it.

You know, so racing there is kind of big, but it's not really that big, you know. But I think it's like the Greens come through there, Michael, you know, everybody can come through there. And we all come through at different times because we really didn't know each other, you know, knew of each other, but it wasn't friends with each other, whatever. And but I think each one of us give the other one, you know, the inspiration of whatever to do it. You know, that could be done, you know. And so we kind of run out of money in like 88, something like that. Didn't run out of money. It just kind of got as far as I could go with late models,

and we didn't spend a lot on it, you know. And I had been racing Nashville a little bit, going there and trying to run anyway. It's pretty expensive to run down there, but we'd go down there and try to run. And a little track called Highland Rim, Tennessee. You ever heard of that one? Yeah, Highland Rim.

Highland Rim. Yeah, I've heard of that one. The Hamilton's. Yeah, the Hamilton's. Okay, okay. So I was racing there actually before I went to Nashville. And met a guy there that owned the engine shop, whatever, and he just happened to call me one day and say,

hey man there's Saddlers are racing they got a little cup team down here and they were looking for a fabricator and thought you might be interested so that was on like a Wednesday well Thursday I drive down there and talked to Sadlers and it was a Mr. Sadler he was an older man

and the trucking company hauled US mail and uh... hauled US mail for the government and he always wore his hat reeled down real far and had his flat bill on and he was telling me you know he talked kind of funny was a great guy but anyway they uh was looking at for a fabricator and they was going to pay me. I forgot like

$200 a week or something like that, $2.40 or something. Oh, yes, but hardly nothing. And so I'm like, well, let me think about it. And it was on Thursday. So I went home and away home from Nashville. I'm thinking about it. And told my mom on Saturday that I was leaving going to Nashville and I left on Sunday and never looked back. So I loaded up my Mast10 truck and with a few parts on it, a little bit of money and went to Nashville. And it's funny because when I went down there, it was they were getting ready to go to Dayton. So I didn't need he or stay. I went on down there and went straight to Daytona for two weeks, you know, like it used to be, you know.

What year was this? Like a 90, something like 90. Who was driving the car? Eddie Beerswell. You remember him? I remember him. And so I go down there. That Eddie Beerswell?

From Texas World Speedway? Or from San Antonio? Oh, wow. Yep. So I go down there and we do that deal, try to. And, you know, I don't know where I'm in the garage area and don't know. You know, I'm amazed really, you know. Yeah.

Our heart's over here. There are a walker's over there. Holy s**. Yeah, and all I know is I just left, you know, I never even, I think it was 19 years old. I never even been on my own, never, you know. I didn't know how to wash my clothes or nothing. You know, I just took off with Nashville. And so I got to know a lot of people, though.

You know, so when I work for Sadlers, well, we'd run like five or six races a year, you know, cup races, try to. We wouldn't make, you know, most of them. But I got to know Larry McClure because we rented his motor sometime and Robert Yates and Rouch, and I'd go pick up the motors and stuff, you don't bring it back. And that's how I kind of got. What are y'all doing in between them cup races? I'm trying to convince them to run Nashville,

run the big track, you know, because that's where... What else was at the shop? They got other cars? Yeah, they had like four or five cars, but... Like what types? They all cup cars. Okay. Yeah, they're all cups.

They weren't running a weekly. No, but I had told them when I went down and I said, I'll come down and work for you, but I want, you know, like I knew, like they really needed me. I said, I'm coming down and work for you, but if you ever get needed a driver, pretty much down the line, that's what I want to do, you know? And so I became good friends with them along the way. They trusted me, you know, they're not.

started, I become like the crew chief slash team manager over about the first six months I was there, you know, and then I started running the whole shop, you know, which the whole shop is nothing there when you're not racing that much, but it's still two or three guys under me, you know, whatever. And all of a sudden, they, they bought so much fuel from Texaco that they would, Texaco would give them breaks on stuff, you know, and they bought fleets of trucks at one time and sat another. Well, he come to me one day and he said, hey, we've got, Texas wants to do a race at Nashville over here at the speedway. You know, it was Texcoe premium diesel, I think, at the time. How can we get a car, you know, late model car?

I'm thinking, huh, I got one. You know, the old one I used to run, but I'm thinking, man, I don't know. So Jeff Green's old car, he ran real good in was for sale. So I talked him into buying that car, and then about the time we bought it, they were like, you think he'll drive it for us? Talking about Jeff, you know, I'm like, well, man, here we go again, you know. Yeah. So I convinced him to let me drive it anyway.

And so I ended up running that one race, and Mr. Sadler, he just, he's just funny guy, you know, but he enjoyed it and liked it. And then the next thing I know we're racing the next week and the next week. And then I ended up, they said put all their stuff on hold as far as their cup stuff. And we race Nashville for a year. In late miles. In late miles. Yeah.

What did the car look like? What kind of car was it? It was aluminum. Remember the Luminos back then? And you had to, at that time, you fabricated your own body like late-mile stocks used to be. But they had to be like the bush cars or whatever, you know, bond-led up. Yeah, steel bodies.

So I went from working in the cup garage on her cup stuff, you know, way underfunded, way, you know, just under-budget and everything else to. now I'm racing Nashville full-time. I got the best deal out there, you know. I'm like, think for it, do that easy. You know, we've got a brand-new car, and we're ready to go. So I took advantage of that, you know, and so we decided to race the whole season in the next year,

and I would go over and test because our shop was about two miles from the racetracks. I'd go over and run, and I met a guy named James Graves. He used to on Nova computers, and he was one of the first guys out. This was 91 or 92 now, and we had telemetry on my car back then, you know. And we had infrared things on the wheel. and everything. So we could see everything going on. And he'd work with a couple of cup teams, but not that many. And Bobby Hamilton was one of them because Bobby's from Nashville.

So meanwhile, we'd go test every week, and he's doing it for free just to get his equipment worked out and set in the other. So I learned a lot. You know, learning what everything does on race cars, you know, and had the opportunity to do that and race along the way. Well, I run one year and got everything going right, and then they're like, hey, let's move up to ARCA. Let's run some ARCA races. I was like, man, I wanted to run another year in Nashville because we're just now getting good, you know?

And so anyway, we bought some ARCA cars. cars or build some of our cars that other stuff we already had you know is what they were wanted to do and I said well if we're going to run full season we need a good short track car they're like well just take it over it was Rob Rosso road course car that they bought for somebody a long time ago sitting out back take the old car there and make you a short track car of that you know I knew Arka you know Arka was pretty much late models on their short track stuff at that time so I thought man I were going to run full season I only have a good short track car you know so but I was good at with them you know as personally and so I said well I just build one I just go

to Ronnie Hutton was a guy built chassis at Nashville, and he's one of built my car. I was running in Nashville. I go to Ronnie and get a chassis, and having bill out the stuff, you know, over a time, you know, it looks like we're buying rear-in, buying some parts, buying some hubs,

and whatever for other cars. Now I'll have me a brand-new car. So I got the chassis done. It was in here, and then he starts billing out stuff, and I started getting everything in. All of a sudden, we got a brand-new look great. Best one car in the shop, you know,

and had all the cup stuff was a good arc of stuff, but it was kind of beat up, you know. And all of a sudden, Earl Saffler had come over, Earl Sadler had come over one morning. He goes, looked at this car, and I mean, it's like, just got it pain and everything. He's like, what car is this? I said, that's our short track car, you know? Man, y'all did a good job when that, talking about that Maroso car.

You know, you did a good job on that car. I said, yeah, thank you. I never did tell him what the situation was. But, so anyway, I got me a new short track car, and I got all my speedway stuff, ready to go in intermediate. We take off more like fifth and points or third in the points, running pretty good, and that's when they run Texas World Speedway at that time. You said that while ago.

Yeah, yeah. And I swear it, you know, run good there in Atlanta and all these places. And now all of a sudden, this is the way they were. He goes, comes over one morning, he goes, hey, we're not going to run any more than short tracks. I was like, man, because Flat Rock was coming up, Toledo, Ohio, all these ones. And we're like top five in the points, you know. And I'm not even going to be able to run my brand of car that I just made it all happen, you know. And I said, really, and he couldn't convince him.

He's just like, we don't need to mess that stuff. We just keep you, you know, run the intermediate big stuff, you know. I was like, and that was far and few between at that time. You know, you win race every week on a big track. So I'm thinking, man, so all of a sudden, it comes time for Flat Rock. I think he'd run the three days. It was like Flat Rock, Michigan, Toledo, Ohio, then Keel Care all in one weekend, three nights of racing, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

So about Thursday, I'm thinking, waiting for him to come over and tell me he'll go ahead and go. And he doesn't. I'm like, I told all the guys, I said, we're going. So we loaded the car up, got everything ready, got in a minivan. I had a credit card from the shop there, and we went racing. We left that, like, late Thursday night. All I could do is just hope that he wouldn't show up by the shop and see where we're going, you know. So we take off racing with all his stuff, you know, and luckily we won, I think we were in somewhere like top three at Toledo.

And then the Saturday night we won at Flat Rock. Thank God, you know, and I said, so I call him up. I said, yeah, I said, hey, we're up here in Michigan, we just won. He goes, you were where? If you got no way to talk, you know, I said, yeah, we're up here in Michigan, we just won the race, you know. Where are you at? I said, Michigan. We're at Flat Rock, Michigan.

We just won. Won what you. I thought we weren't run no more than short track car. you know, races. I said, well, I didn't think you for sure about it. I thought you just talked about not right. But I knew about winning, you know, and he goes, but you're up there? And I said, yeah. He said, man, he said, you won? I said, yeah. He said, well, good job, buddy. Everything was great, you know. But if I hadn't won that weekend and called him, the only thing I was hoping for it, I'd go back and he just didn't come by our weekend,

wouldn't know it, you know, but just stuff like that's the way I end up having to deal with all that. So how did you get from, did they end up going cover? racing with you? Yeah, they, yeah, we went, we run some more, you know, run that, oh, actually, we finished that Arka season out, and I'm thinking, well, I think we finished third in the points, I need one more year, you know, I want to run one more year, because I'm just now, I'm getting to know everything, you know, and they're like, no, we're not running no more at Arka stuff, you know, and so they didn't rent my deal in Nashville, now that they didn't rent my plans on Arka, you know, but I'm thinking, okay, and they said,

we're going to go cuff racing, and I thought, there's no way we can cup race out here, you know, so we didn't have no new cars, nothing, and some of the stuff I ran Arka and a couple cars who was sitting back in the shop and how are you going to turn it down you know going cup racing and i'm like man that's going to you know i'm not ready for it pretty much i was like 20 years old 21 something like that at the time and at that time you worked your way up through that deal you had to get Earnhard approved for you he's going to stay around you know what i'm talking about so but i knew everybody in the garage area because i ran it motors and you know we rented motors and stuff from them so i was like how many races we're running oh we're running like eight or ten

ten races i thought man this going to be too we're going to be lucky to get the one you know we're run Daytona and Talladega and all these big races, you know. So I said, okay, you know, and then we're running Wilkesboro, a couple of short tracks at another. So we started off like that and we go in, and our first race was going to be at Charlotte, I think, and for the World 600, I think. It was the first, you know, the big race we were going to make, and we missed it. We went to Michigan is what it was.

I went to Michigan, missed it, and then went to Charlotte, and I made Charlotte. And I'll never forget sitting out on the line, you know, sitting in my car, first one, you know, we made. And because we missed Nottown High many of them before that, you know, when I was just working for it. but sitting on that line knowing that we just made Charlotte, you know, and racing against Earnhardt and Walter and all them guys were there in, Bobby Albany and Terry and all them guys and Bobby Hamilton, you know,

and all them from Nashville. And so after Charlotte, we was going to Richmond or Wilkesboro 1. I forget which one, you know, actually which one it was, but I'm thinking now we're really going to get the doors bought off. So we took an old BSR car we had, and at Nashville, you got to soak your tires to run good. You know, everybody did it. Now I'm going to a cup race with a big,

BSR car, which was just outdated car, wasn't that wrong with their cars. How am I going to make this race, you know? And you know, because at that point in time, I got to do whatever I got to do to race, you know? And so we decided we just prep our tires a little bit and go, you know, we'll make the race

to Wiltsboro, try to it. It's the only shot. And so we go to Richmond is what it would start with. So I go to Richmond, we got a big super speedway motor in there or something, you know, intermediate motor. And I remember driving around and I'd get in the gas and it just bogged down, you know, it's bawled down. You know, it's bawled.

just wasn't a short track motor. So I had my buddy up in the top of the truck. He's, you know, prepping our tires or tie guy. In the lounge? Up in the top of the truck? Yeah, up in the front. Because we didn't have a lounge. We just had an open area up there.

And I remember coming down to practice and I'm thinking, man, we ain't got a shot, you know. And I'm smelling everything you smell coming out of the back of the truck, you know. I'm thinking, man, we're in trouble. You can smell the tire prep. Yeah, and that timer was probably 50 cars there. You had to make the race. We're way down the hole down here, you know, and I'm thinking, man, you just. It's not going to work, you know, scared of death.

And so I said, anybody checked on the tire guy, you know, and said, he's all right, you know, whatever. So he puts the tires on. And he used to do a real good job of it, and he'd clean them all up and everything. But he puts our tires on, we're rolling through tech, and I'm pushing the car through tech. I'm looking down, I'm thinking, oh, my God. I mean, the good year's coming off of it.

It just didn't look good, you know. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I said, I mean, it was a little bad. You could tell something's running off the tires, you know. He's leaving the trail. Yeah, leaving the trail. And you can still smell it, you know. But I remember coming pushing it like this,

and we're in line going through tech. Here comes Elmo Langley with this some kind of big old red box. And I don't know, it looks like metal detectors, how big it looked, you know. And he's going by smell. NASCAR official. Yeah, NASCAR official. And he's smelling everybody's tires and stuff, you know. And I'm thinking, man, what do I do?

You know, I can't pull out of line. My tires, it's obvious that we've cleaned them with something, you know what I mean? And I'm just praying. I'm done. You know, it's over. And he's going through looking at all the stuff. and all of a sudden he gets to our car and he goes all the way around it and nothing's it didn't do it nothing's beeping i'm like and my heart was going boom boom but like this scene's just

for looks yeah he come to me like this and he goes just goes winked at me you know and i thought i don't know still this day if that was a wink that i could have got you and i didn't or the machine didn't work or because if it worked something's going to happen you know and then he walks right on by so i'm thinking man we're going to get by this so we went out to qualify and i think you know as richman's always second laps of fastest or whatever so we got to qualify so we got to qualifying. My first lap I got in the gas and it just goes, baw. Vobmy just bawled big time. So I made my first lap and I thought, man, I ain't got no choice. I went about

five car lengths on my head into one, spin out, boom, hit the wall. Whoa. Yeah, wreck and hit the wall. Holy s'h. Yeah. So my first lap was good enough if I'd run my second, made it, that would have been on the pole for the national. I ended up like 11th or something like that or 14th or something like that on my first lap. So then it got big. Now, now we take the car back to the garage area. You know, my backup's like an intermediate speedway. I don't even know if I got a backup, you know.

I know the seat wasn't in there or nothing else, you know. So wherever I're now scrambling and everybody's overlooking at the BSR car. And a lot of people were like, man, I like this chat. You know, Ricky Red was one of them. You know, he's overlooking at. Everybody's wouldn't know how we were so fast, you know. And it was a drops in out or something, you know. And so we got it all that done.

Anyway, make an honest story short, we made it through that weekend, you know, made the race. And then went to Wilkesboro. I thought, well, if it worked at Richmond, it would work at Wilksboro, you know, qualified a limit there. and I don't know if it's tires or not but I just know that whatever we had going on we run pretty good you know qualified good anyway

and then after that we think we're running another race and they were like well we're gonna we're not gonna run any more cup races this year you know I'm like I mean just out of nowhere that's the way they do you know I was like oh okay so I thought it was over you know pretty much so I remember vaguely like you having some

really really good moments in that Sadler car right and like you know that was what led to your opportunity with kale. You didn't just like get this random phone call like you done stuff in the Sadler car like the qualifying efforts and so forth because that car was like a you know 30th to 40th place car most weeks when Eddie was driving it right or anybody else but you would you know and that was a sign that like man this guy is special right right and so you get a phone call from kale yeah did he call you oh yeah he called me him him kale himself and he said hey Jeremy or Jeremy I said yes him

this is the kale yard burl and they just told me and they just told me we weren't going to race anymore. It all just happened like just perfect timing, you know. And I was like, yeah, right, you know, Kail who? He's like, you know, he's like, you know, maybe it is, you know, I didn't know. So anyway, after that I went and met with Kail and that was the experience. You had not met Kail before that? No.

And Kale was one of my heroes, you know what? What was it like? What do you mean? It was an experience. Yeah, so I get on the plane. There again, I'm from Kentucky, right? And I never had, went to Nashville, just race. That's all I knew, you know.

and I've told you exactly the way of it's been and had no idea how to negotiate or talk to anybody about anything. I just thought it was, I just want to race, you know. So show up at Kel's shop, flying over there, you know, he gets me a plane ticket, whatever, fly over there. Sitting in his office, and he's worried about like this, and, you know, he keeps his feet up on the desk,

and kale is really a, he don't say a lot, you know, but when he talks, he just says what it's going to be. And he's sitting there telling me, I'm going to get rid of this guy, I'm going to try to bring you on a second and other. And he said, how much money you're going to need. And remember, I started working for Sadler's pretty cheap, you know,

but I was up pretty good at the time, so I said, I'm thinking I knew what I already made, and that's barely getting me by, you know what I mean? So I don't know what I'm going to do coming over here if anything less than that, you know. So I just kind of threw a number out there, and as soon as I said the number, I think it was like, it wasn't much. It was like 50,000 and 20% of the purse of what Sadler's, you know, ended up paying me of 900 weeks, what it was, and something, you know. And Kale just went like that.

I watched his, he's sitting upon this, his face just turned red like this. blood red and I was like he just sat there you know I'm thinking man wonder what what that means you know I didn't know what to say you know and he said boy said uh he said uh you know what I need never had a salary all you guys want these salaries now before you race I ain't never had salary and race I always got percentage of the purse you know is all I got you know and uh thinking man you know my only shot here getting ready to drive for kale Yarborough and he I mean he turned red blood red over it and I was like wow you know I didn't know what thing he said but I tell you what I'll do he said he said I'll pay you that but you're going to be in

in the shop every day working in the shop from eight to five whatever you're going to arrive with the guys and you're going to be one of them you know that's what we're going to do so i left there going well i got nine hundred dollars a week i got 20% of the purse you know pretty good deal you know but didn't even really have no money even move over here you know i thought now how am i going to get back over here oh and i had to move over there too as part of it you know so they end up moving over there finding out of a way or whatever but it turned out good with kale you know we ended up uh worked in the shop with the guys and in this that and the other and just kept working my way up up and then, you know, that goes from there.

Yeah. Different crew chief in there. Who was your crew chief? Tony Furr ended up being it. Tony Furr? Who was the first guy? Now, as you said, I can't remember his name. It was a guy named Ken from Roush, but he had the, my first got there.

It was bad, too. But that's another reason why I learned to speak up a little bit and shouldn't have was when you see something and you know it's, you know, that's blue and that's white, you're going to say, hey, no, wait me, that's blue and that's white. This guy would be like, no, that's red and that's black. you know that's the way we work with each other you know i'm like man this isn't working but wasn't going to say anything because i thought well this is way this is a cup race you know this is way it's supposed to be and and then tony came in and really helped her our program out a lot so

right around the time um so why did uh why did you switch with kranifus so kranifus had john andreddy and you were with tony fur at the 98 car which was kales i think it was 98 yeah and um why did y'all switch because you know kales car you talk about it uh in other pod in another podcast where keel's car was just starting to get pretty good especially to speedway stuff they go win with with john right um tony fir was awesome at at finding holes in the rule book right one of my favorite things about him but um why did you go there why did you switch i just felt like that you know when cranifus came in it was cranfus hauss it was a you know another step up you know pretty much and and just my whole career was like that everything just happened at certain points of it you know

the outfit itself had a little more prestige and upside yeah it did and and it you know it you know they had more money and, you know, to race off of it. Kail really never got the full-blown sponsorship money that a lot of teams had, you know. And so I just seen this opportunity, and I thought, man, if I don't, you know, so I just took that chance and moved on with them. And then John went to Kales, obviously, you know, which was doing great. You know, like you said, they knew how to run good and try to keep up. What do you think it was that made the Speedway car so fast that John ended up winning with at Daytona in July?

I'll trade you one What? Trade you secrets One for one No but they really worked hard on everything Tony was good about getting the car low You remember all those cars looked I mean he had everything cheated up on it Not cheated up just to the limit you know

And we just started getting good at it Because I still in the poll at Talladega with them Before I left By half a second On the first lap Yeah and I remember Tony said just you know if I ask you if it's running hot shut it off you know well Tony ain't never gonna stutter you know I go through turn one or two on the second lap you know I get on

the back stretch and he goes uh buddy uh uh he stuttered you know is it running hot yeah okay I shut it off you know and I thought man that sounded weird that something big must just happen you know so uh we got coasted then and uh I just see the look on his face when I'm coming out of pit road you know that something wasn't right you know and um anyway they took her car and we ended up you know getting credit for the pole and everything and and uh but i remember gary nelson walking up to us and saying right on pit roll right when i got out of the car he looked at tony he said uh he said i'm fixing to go right around the backstretch and looking he says so if you tell me now i'll make it easy on you you know thinking there's something

after yeah and i'm here i'm thinking evidence i know i didn't throw nothing out you know and tony sitting there looking at him real concern he's rubbing his chin like this and he goes he goes you're going you're going to ride around the track and he said yeah i'm going to ride around backstretched he said if I find it you're gonna be in big trouble unless you tell me right now what went on here and Tony said they're real confused I was like tell him Tony you know what what we got to do here you're gonna because at the time I'm scared to this about everything anyway you know know and I remember Tony looking at me real serious he looks up and time does his face like yes he goes he goes Gary said um I believe I'll take my chances you know like that

you know Gary looked at he was mad man I was like you know whatever happened you know but evidently you know I knew we're going to find nothing we didn't I didn't throw nothing out. Sure. But for Fur, that's just the way he did things. You know, he wanted Gary to really think there was something back there. Well, we'll take my chances on that. Yeah.

I think Tony Furr ended up going to the 25 car, crew chief in it at one point. And they ended up sitting on the pole at Daytona, and they found out that they had put soap or something in the spring bucket. And something that would either just, once the car went down and landed in the corner, it'd push it all out. Right. And the car would drop a half. And I think who was driving the car,

I don't think it was Nadeo. I thought it was Nadeu. It's either Nadeu or Vickers. It wasn't Vickers. So then it was Nadeu. And it could have been Nemechek. I don't know why that name pops up in my head. But either way, they sat on the pole like by three or three tiers a half a second.

And they found, they called them. Like they were obviously come in and tech the car and it was super, super low. But I just, I just, when I think of fur, I think of like, so we celebrate creativity in this room. We celebrate guys that can figure out. ways to work around the words in the rule book and they make them write a new rule right right and um and fur was fur would be a great guess where is he yeah where's he these days you know if he would if he'd be willing to to tell the truth like dw coming here and told us all about everything how he was dumping weight out of the frame rail i mean it's stuff all like there's a car that i got a car

in my junkyard they dropped lead out the at the jackpost right you know you watch all these little short tracks nowadays, you know, even at Millbridge and places, and everybody's afraid to do anything, you know, and I'm thinking, you know, what I've seen in the past and what I know you've probably seen too, you know, the higher level you go, the more cheating there is. You know, there's more going on there than it really is. I don't know if you caught cheating, but you call it something. Creativity. Yeah, creativity.

Innovative thinking, yeah. Not to diverge us, but I wanted to ask you all this earlier. Do they do creative things in those? Oh, I don't know. I don't go at the dirt track. Millbridge. Mill bridges and stuff. No, no, pretty much not.

You're running the locks you can do, you know. Is there really not? I think that. I've been thinking of stuff, but I think Brexton, Clint told me the other day that they threw Brexton out for something on his carburetor. Oh, really? Acer plate or something. Yeah.

See? So, okay. So there is something. I mean, that's always the easiest thing for those little things in the motor. Yeah, the motor. Cheat it up a little bit. I'm going to tell you, when you asked him about what John Andretti's car had on it when it won the poll the next year.

You know something. You know some creativity. Oh, of course he does. Yeah. I know. So you're not going to tell us anything? I'll tell you one thing that I heard. I'm not sure, but I heard this.

Was I'm pretty sure at that time you could take, when you show up at the racetrack and they pump your motors, you know, they pump one cylinder or whatever. And they pump that same motor all weekend, or the same cylinder. And if you were going to cheat, this is the way you did is that you'd have a couple motors in the trailer.

Remember we used to change motors out for qualifying motor, all this, that other, just all throughout the weekend. And whatever they pumped on that cylinder, you'd have one motor that's all. opposite in the trailer and you could when you put your race motor in or whatever it is or you could other qualifier you put it in and it may be different than the one that that you pulled out yeah you know bigger cubic inches or wide bore or small stroke or it could be anything it could even have

an air leak in the in may one of the cylinders that's you know like it looks like a compressor you know I've seen that happen too hard about that I know the McClure guys like when sterling and all them were winning they were Pittman I think is the name of the engine builder was Sucking air on the intake. Yeah. And there was all kinds of ways you could do that. I told it on this podcast a couple weeks ago. Yeah, Doug Gates was on.

Yeah. We were talking about the market. You know, the plugs, there's all kinds of little plugs in the intake where you might run, you know, a temp sensor or something like that. But whatever. But when there's not anything there, you got a, you got a, you got to just a button plug in there. And I would, an Allen plug, right, or an Allen. And so I would drill a hole in that thing and then drill a hole through the intake. and I could turn it clockwise to make the hole open up and then turn it to make it shut.

So when they were sniffing, they couldn't, it wouldn't whistle. Right. And then when I was- So Doug told you that? No, I did. Oh, he said that. Oh, you did it. I learned that from Morgan McClure. Yeah, yep.

They were drilling holes through the valves on the head for the valve cover. They were drilling holes through the studs and into the intake. Man. And breathing air, pulling air in that way. And they could turn the nuts on the valve cover to shut the holes. Yep. And you could also do that and have each cylinder drill. You go to the back of the block and have that plug on the back of the block.

Same way and do it. After they sniff it, I guess you could do. I guess you could do that. You could make it. Yeah, you just clocked it. Yeah. That's pretty neat. Yeah.

I never was good enough to be able to jet the carburetor, though, to really take the most, take the biggest advantage of it. I know because we weren't smart enough to know how much air we were pulling in. And then we ended up burning up, burning the piston up. So you end up going to Krenfus and that, how, does that go? Who's your crew chief? You've,

what's your process there? Yeah, we, when I started off, it was Red Dog. Remember Red Dog? Oh, my God. Are you serious? Buddy Barnes?

Yeah, Buddy Barnes? Yeah, Tim Brewerer and. Sounds like a fun bunch. Yeah. I'm telling you, it was fun. And with Red Dog, he got real fun with him.

You know, he's a cool dude. And so when I went over there, I felt really at home, you know what I mean? Because I hung out with them and, you know, all the stuff on. Lake.

Is your kind of people. Yeah, I just felt real comfortable with them. There were some strip clubs visited with that team. I don't tell you. They were too old at that point. Right. That was earlier in their life. I doubt it.

I doubt it. I bet they were. And then you had Cranfus. He was from Germany, you know, and he was a mess, you know, just something all the time of Michael. But I loved it there. You know, I went there and we ran decent. And then Roger came in and bought, you know, half of the, bought horse out.

And Paul Andrews came over as my crew chief, and then the Paul Andrew. The Paul Andrews, yeah. So at this point, did they change the number to 12? Yeah, they changed it to 12. And now the car looks just like Rusty's. Yep, right? And your teammates with Rusty. Yep, teammates with Rusty's a podcast episode on.

Are the cars, the cars, but the cars are not in the same shop. No. Y'all could have been anything but teammates. Right. And it really was a great example in what not to do. Right. It looked like when y'all were on the racetrack, it looked like y'all was identical.

Yep. Like y'all was sharing. engineers and resources absolutely not right absolutely not and and what's crazy was was Rusty was stuck in the 1800 right front and the you know 1200 left front you know Rockingham places like that and we'd moved on we'd got into because we'd already headed that direction of saw springs and big springs in the back and giant sway bars yeah big old sway bars and Rusty was act opposite small sway bar you know 300 325 in the back you know just that that pretty much basic deal you know so we started moving

on because we wanted to do something different than everybody else was doing. So Rusty would come over and we'd run better or qualified good and he said, man, what you got in that, you know, popping his wrist and right, well, you got in the right front of that thing. And I didn't want to tell him, I wanted to tell him, but I didn't want to tell him because I knew what he was going to do, you know, and I said, well, we got a 500 in the 500 right front. You ain't got no 500 in that thing right front.

He'd go overlooking, there's 500 sitting in there, you know. Well, you got in the right rear, you know, and then I'd say, 500 at that time, you know, ain't no way you got a 500 right rear and he's sitting over a pair of 300 or two seventy five three hundred you know and then he'd just get madly and walk off but then we didn't want hear nothing else about it you know and then that started happening all the time well then it started happening where but we still run the same like like we'd go somewhere and he'd have 18 to 12 and i'd have the you know fives all the way around or whatever and we'd run or qualify about the same yeah every time you know and uh he just didn't understand it then you know he would call

roger and say roger you know they're not telling me what they're doing in the car and and you know thought I was lying to him and then it became competitive. You know what I mean? It became personal again. And then me and him started racing each other harder and we weren't anybody else, you know. And because we had one team over here, which was my team, that was his team over there, you know, across the street pretty much, and two owners, two separate owners, two separate ways of doing things, you know.

And we had our own chassis shop, engine shop, and, you know, they had their own. So everything was pretty much different, you know. and I was just, you know, holding on to my deal and he was holding on his deal and we just ended up clashing, you know. When you won at Pocono, you had a big old giant front sway bar. Yeah.

Now at the time, it was... Small. Yeah, small. Today is small. Yep. So, you know, I had all of my success, you know, in the Cup Series with that type of setup. Right.

When we went and won at Atlanta in 2004, I standing in the intro stage and Mark Martin come up to me and he goes, well, you think about your car? And I was like, we ain't on running good. I got a two inch front sway bar. You know, freaking way it's going to turn. I don't know what we're doing. He goes, well, you might be the first guy to win with a two inch sway bar at Atlanta.

I'm like, ain't no way. That thing is ain't going to turn. I don't know what we're doing. But like y'all were kind of the first ones to really start pulling that kind of stuff, you know, going that way. Yeah, dad was the same way. When I was a rookie, we went to Indie. I drove his car, he drove mine in the middle of the test,

and he's like, your car ain't going to work. It don't roll, it don't turn. His car is all over the damn place, left front way in the air, and I'm thinking, man, this thing sucks driving this thing. It's got a tiny front sway bar and just rocking all over the place. And my car was all pinned down, and he was right.

Like that day, that race, 40 lapsed into the run, he drove past me because of my car quit turning. But we ended up figuring it out. So y'all were, I don't know who else might have been doing it, but y'all were one of the teams that brought in that soft, soft, front stuff, big sway bar, and you end up going to Pocono, perfect place for it.

And putting the bumper to dad, nobody did that. Right. So that was a, that's probably your marquee win, would you say? Oh, for sure. You know, one people remember, even today, we still see images on Twitter of dad going by, you flipping the bird or whatever he was done. doing. Right.

You know. We still wonder what that was. Yeah. Still not. It's just really grainy. I can't quite make it out. And that day there, man, was like, first of all,

he and I run like fourth and fifth all day. And you know as well as I do how he would do you. You know, like when you come up through the sport back then in the 90, late 90s and all this stuff, even, you know, a little about mid-90s for me, you know. When I said Earnhardt approved earlier, I meant that because he would, him and Dave Marcus, a couple of them guys would. always mess with you, you know, just trying to mess with you. And if you stood your ground with them, you know, you didn't lose it when he got by here.

You didn't, you know, nothing happened. Then you were accepted, I felt like. You know, I mean, he was like the leader, you know what I mean? And so that day there, we're running fourth and fifth all day long. And it's funny because I'd get him loose. We're playing around, basically, you know, because we had fourth and fifth place car. And, of course, Rusty was dominating. You know, he was running up front and he, you know, running really good.

And we're sitting back there, fourth, and he'd get me loose. I get him loose. And we'd drive for a while and just doing that, make a lapse. you know, then the caution came out. We were good about taking two tires all the time. Like, I was never afraid because my pit crew wasn't as good as Rusty's, and he's always put four on no matter what, you know. So the caution comes out and he's like, what are you going to do, man?

What are you going to do on my radio, you know? And I said, I don't know, what are you going to do? I already kind of knew what we were going to do, because we pitted, you know, kind of early and the caution came out of the end. And I was like, he said, man, put on four. Go forward, put on, put on four, you know, whatever you got to do. Because he was scared death to do, too, you know, Rusty. Y'all could talk to each other.

Yeah, we talked to each other. Bullshit. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so we're talking to each other on the back stretch. And he's like, what are you going to do? So we're talking back and forth. And I said, you know, he's trying to convince me to put on forward. Yeah.

Because he knew if it did that, he'd come out in front of me. So I come down to pit rolling. I didn't have to say nothing already. I already knew what was going to happen. Pulled in the pits. You know, boom, we put rights on it. Boom, we took back off, you know. I'm going down pit road, and it's real quiet, man.

And I don't see nobody else pulling out. Just us and I keep going, man. one more, one more, one more, one more, one. All soon your dad goes, right in front of us like this. I thought, well, it couldn't have been a better one. So now he and I are first and second with two tires, both of us, you know. There's a few cars in between us, then it got to Ricky Road and Jared and them guys that put on four. And Rusty's about 14 with four on, you know.

Jeez. Yeah, oh, he was pissed. Because he thought, sure, everybody's going to put on four, you know. So me and your dad take off, and I knew since we took off, you know, I'm like, if I tried past him, anytime in between. We already been doing this all day, you know, just playing, you know. And so if I passed him any other time, he's going to get me loose. I got a time this just right, you know, and I wanted to get away from Ricky and them guys.

They were coming, you know, get away from everybody behind us. Me and him just sitting there riding, you know, just wanting to. And it's been a great day, you know, everything's going good. Now we're going to finish second, you know. And so it comes down right down to the end. And I would shift more than everybody else did if I wanted to. I had the option I could shift. I forgot what ratio they had.

I got downshift into one, and I could shift again at the tunnel turn if I wanted to. And that was pretty much early before anybody to start doing that too, you know. So I left in, you know, shifting normal, shifting normal, shifting normal. And I knew I had that option, you know, and I tried a couple of times.

So we go down to the one and two, you know, and I'm about a couple of cars behind him, down the backstretch, and we get ready to go on a tunnel turn. I already knew what I was going to do. I was going to, you know, downshift and make a run at it, and that was it. You know, but driving up behind him

and getting him loose wasn't going to happen. You know what I'm talking about. You can do whatever you would try to do in this last lap, last corner. He ain't going to budge, you know. And so we go through the tunnel turn, and I downshift him. I did. It just got to, you know, he pushed off a little bit. I got to run like crazy, you know.

I thought, it's just, you know, still this day, I'm like, I never forget how that thing run down the short shoot, you know. And it took off running, and I'm driving up on him. Part of him, he thought, well, you know, he's going to, he ain't going to budge him. So I just go over and just nudge him make it look like, you know, here I am. You know, I'm right behind you. You're going to win, but I'm right behind you. And as I started getting closer to him, I seen his car,

you rode over looking like you saw it. It was all rolled over like this, and I seen the left rear coming up. So I just stayed right on. My stuff sitting there bouncing, you know, and I just kept driving closer to him. When I did, I seen the back end step out, step out, step out, step out. So I just, you know, he would done the same thing. He didn't take much. He was already loose.

Right, he's already loose. So I stayed right there, and he just goes, boom, like it. And that's just like a godsent thing, man. I'm telling you, I was like, I couldn't believe what just happened from my eyes, you know? Then we take all win the race. And then as soon as I cross start to finish time, I thought, man, what in the hell am I going to say by this? I knew it was coming after that.

You know, I knew this is. This is going to be bad right here. So I come back around and, you know, he's doing the flip-mey-off and set in the other, you know, and he's driving beside him. I knew he's pissed, you know. And it's how dumb I was, you know, but this is the way I was back then. I'm not this way now, I promise. So I go down the front stretch and all the fans, you know, you know, it's all

Earnhardt fans everywhere. Well, I go down the end of the fresh side, I turn around. I'm just going to drive back in front of y'all because they all throwing beer cans and stuff. When I turned around and drove back in front of them again, I mean, the whole front straightaway was covered with bottles and beer bottles. And I thought, man, what am I going to say? You know? And creator Suspenzzo said, just tell him that you just want to rattle his cage a little bit.

That's what he told her in Hart. I mean, told her Bonnie, you know. Perfect, you know. So I get out, you know, I just want to rattle his cage a little bit, all cocky and everything. You know, fans were throwing stuff, booed, everything else. And I had to sneak her way out of there. I had to ride in the back of her rental car and just, you know, huck her down the back of it, like two hours after the race just to make it out of there, you know.

And the whole time I'm thinking, man, I do not want to go. I forgot what we had to go the next week. I don't want to show up there. You know, I don't know if I should call him right. You know, because you know how he is, you know, but what was so cool about it was for him to want everything he's done and done, everything he's done his career. At that point in time, I'm thinking, you know, he's going to be pissed to start with. But when I ran into him at the driver's introduction, walk right into him. We're going in like this to door next week.

Like it, and he's got a big smile on his face. You know, he grabs me in the headlock, you know, how he does that and does this little deal on my head. and I thought man I looked at him I said I thought she was gonna be mad at you man he said I wasn't mad at you man he said that's part of you know just so cool about it

and he goes he goes but it's the one thing that pissed me off he said all that you said after the race what pissed me off I guess you know then he just you know punched around on me and we walked on in but the thing was cool about that

that was Dale Earnhardt you know what I told him that day too I said look it's Dale Earnhardt you know somebody I looked up to us when I was a kid we're at racing you know and I said to my hero and it's the last lap of the last corner and we're racing for the lead, you know.

I know he knows what that feels like somewhere down the line. I said, but I drove up behind him, and I go, and when I got behind him, he lost it. He said, so like that. He said, I didn't lose shit. I did, but, you hit me. He said the other, you know. But, you know, that was just a moment for me, you know.

But what I realized after that was that he was so humble about it and so cool about it. You know, he was intimidated on a racetrack, but yet that showed me right there. He had a huge heart, you know, and he'd worked me up through all those years. you know, got me loose and about spumming and this, that, and the other. But he took it, you know, he dished out, but he could take it, you know. I never even thought the bird was really out of anger, right?

Right. I mean, did you think it was? Like, was he generally pissed? Oh, I mean, I'd say. I think in the moment, for sure. Yeah, it's like any driver, right? You're like, oh, damn, I just got moved. Yeah, yeah, especially the way it happened.

Yeah, I think he's definitely pissed off at me. But the following week, man, he was just, I wouldn't expect him. You know, for him to be so cool about it and done everything he's done, his career and then and they look at me and say that you know we just smile and as a true champion i thought you know what i mean to be able to take it and dish out and take it too you know so at this point are you like you know my ass i'm i'm i'm i'm here right this is working out right right right oh yeah is the friction between you and rusty always there and kind of making things harder than they have to be is it because sink because i feel like i would not want to be rusty's

teammate. I don't know why you wouldn't want to win. I just and and he's like the A driver always going to be the A driver. And you're never going to be right about anything that needs to happen any direction that they need to go in or anything new that might need to happen. And if you're not on his side, you know, you could get moved on. You know, he shipped out. Yep. He was competitive. He was hard-headed. Daddy and him had a rivalry that like they could be friends, boy, but when you you got the racetrack he was hard to be friends with right right right and he just was about you know which too i mean it's fair he was about himself right so i imagine that must have been frustrating at times to to have to deal with that constantly right and it was constant and did y'all

ever have like uh words well what was weird was like you were saying we'd go in to sit in on a meeting you know they're both teams at the same meeting you know roger would be there and me and rest he would just be like normal's gonna be you know what's going on you know what's going on like everything was fine and then we get to the racetrack you know and then it started you know and I was like I was to the point about like you said at that time I thought well heck I'm winning races doing good I mean this is what I needed you know the Penske deal and this that other beat Earnhardt you know and and for that deal with Earnhardt to happen with Rusty because Rusty won the beat Dale Earnhardt you know I mean he wanted he he won everything Dale had you know and you know that you know which everybody

did you know so for me to do that to Earnhardt that really I'm sure some that are down the line he got you know made it worse but Rusty I mean I mean, I think he's a great guy today, you know. Yeah, he is. A super guy. And so, but yeah, we go to racetrack and they just hate each other. I mean, like, Daytona, your dad won the Daytona 500. I'm pushing him all day long, you know?

And at the last lap, come out of the bike stretch, and I was running a second. Pull out past him, Rusty was running like fifth, and it's supposed to come with me. You know, Rusty's going with you. It's on the radio. I yank out like this, and that rusty peaks out, boom, right back in. I'm like, here we go. End up, like, fifth, you know, on the last lap, you know. And then when that started happening,

I started doing, you know, right back to him. You know, I didn't help him. He didn't help me. And then we go to meetings. Hey, Rusty, how you doing that? Man, I'm doing great. How are you doing? You know?

And then it just, you know, the media got a hold of it, you know, made it worse than what it was. But by far, I mean, I wished I had never, I kind of got involved in that. Well, if he's going to do that, we're going to do that. And my whole team got like that. You know, our whole team got real defensive on, we're going to do what we want to do. We don't do what they do what they want to do. We'll leave it like that, you know. And Roger let that go on for about a year.

then he was going to put a stop to it because it was not the best way to do a teammate situation. You know, have two cars just totally competitive like that, just at each other and, you know, each one of you're going to do your own deal, you know. Did Ray call you to talk about hiring you? So the rumor or the thought is, Dodge is coming,

Ray's going to get a team. Dodge is going to give Ray a team, man, boof, give him all this money, and he's just, he's going to be, he's got this amazing opportunity. Like, they're just going to pour money into the sport and he's just going to spend it. Right.

And did he call you and say, hey, we're thinking about hiring you? Yeah, after he'd already started. Right. Yeah, I was after that. And then, you know, Rusty and I were bickering and this, that, and the other. So everybody kind of knew something was going to happen between us. So with the bickering going on between you and Rusty, you knew that your days were numbered. Yeah, pretty much.

At Penskees. Rusty came to him to me one day at the thing in 98, and he said at Pocono. He said, the 12 car is to do nothing but help the two-car win a championship. shit, you know, and I started this deal, and I made this, created this deal, and I can end this deal, is what you're telling me. And I'm leading the points. We were first in the points, and he's telling me this, and he's like, fit.

I'm thinking, you know, at that point in time, you tell a driver who basically didn't really care what Rusty thought about, you know, at that time, you know, I really didn't, you know, I was just racing and I'm going to be a racer, you know. And that motivated me. That just made me want to more, you know. But then after time, I started noticing, well, here we go. I'm going to shift it back, it's shifted back, and shift it back, and all these things were happening.

And then, you know, the teams are fighting. I mean, we're at Vegas, and we're running fourth and fifth, early in the race, like, 20 lapsing in the race, whatever it was. And I get underneath the resting, the caution comes out behind us, you know, everybody's wrecking behind us, and we hadn't been running for many laps. And we go down the bike stretch, and I'm still like this, and he's outside of me, and my spotter's saying, back off, you know, let off, you know, cautioned out, caution, caution, well, I'm looking over, rusty ain't lifting, and I ain't lifting because you race back to the caution. Oh, that's right. You'd race back to the caution. Yeah, so we're staying in the gas. reason fourth and fifth right no reason at all we should be doing this now I knew it he knew it

he's not lifting I'm not left we're on side by side I'm actually going to turn three whoa whoa caution's in turn one cost you turn one go through three and four we're still side beside all the way to the start finish line racing each other well then we go in there we back off of where they blew up going into the turn one they're down there working on the wreck right or getting ready to here come me and rusty still racing we get in the old slide and take both those out we're both sitting in the wall like just back in each other like that you know And I'm like, and you're talking about silent, you know, you're thinking, oh, my God, you know. And I think he was leading to points at that point in time.

And then, and then, yeah, so, you know, that's just the way it was, you know. You were looking to leave, though, then. I mean, you say, he says you, that wasn't going to last forever that, right, with the rusty thing. Like, did you think you would get fired or did you think you were just going to leave in, because you were contending, you went in races? Right, but I was dumb, you know, stupid and didn't have really, nobody telling me. you know, what I should be doing or not doing, you know, just making decisions just based on, you know.

Instinct. You all had a penalty at Talladega with the fuel. It's a big 150 points and $150,000 or something. Did that play any role in, like, turning things south? Probably a little bit. You know, Roger doesn't like anything going on, you know, far as cheating and all that. You know they've been caught doing things fast, whatever.

That just wasn't allowed, you know. And not sure what all went down on the fuel deal. We sit on the pole and they did a fuel sample. fine. After the race, they checked over, you know, fuel whatever, and they said that they found something in it, or didn't find nothing in it, but somebody had told them or something that we were running fuel. And so that turned into a two-week big ordeal, you know, and Rogers involved, and they're doing investigations on everything and all this stuff, NASCAR is. And then, so we go to California, basically shouldn't have been there. If they suspended us,

we wouldn't have been there. But they didn't suspend us because we really weren't clear on what happened. Yeah. Go to California and win the race at California. And then, you know, I'm not saying after that, but it just seemed like that was just another, yeah. Yeah, definitely a mark on us, you know. You wrecked at Indianapolis in practice and had to sit out two weeks with a concussion. Yeah. And they said what, I guess in the report was that you were unconscious when they got to the car.

Yeah. Is that what happened? Oh, yeah. I definitely did that. And that's something else that we can talk to about one day on concussions, because I know exactly what you're talking about there. And, yeah, I woke up, we had a great car, man. Saturday morning practice went out and wrecked and I hit driver's side, you know, straight

into the ending, like 200 mile or whatever. I actually woke up just for a second. I remember this point in his day. I opened my eyes up. It'd be like us talking right now. And then two weeks go by. And when you wake up two weeks, you just remember being on the show. And that's it.

You don't remember nothing happening between the two weeks, you know. And so I wake up like this and my head was duct taped down to a stretcher. You know, and I'm looking all these people looking over me. Didn't know where I was at or nothing. I just went, well, I'm going to go back to sleep. I thought I was dreaming. I shut my house back to sleep, you know, and I remember that plainest day,

and then next thing I know I do it again, I'm into staying making all this noise, you know, the whatever it is. Helicopter. Or the, you know, where they run into MRI. Oh, at the hospital, yeah. So I wake up in there and I hear all this bam, man, bam, man, man, all these noise and stuff,

go back to sleep, you know, and then I remember all of a sudden I woke up in the hospital, you know, in the bed, whatever, where they was all at. I hear people talking. I couldn't say that. You hear people having conversation. Yeah, that's how bad it was. So then I woke up, and when I woke up,

was like, okay, I figured, okay, now I realize I've been in the wreck, da-da-da, real quick, trying to put it together. And I knew it's when bullshit my way out of there somehow because, you know, if it was that bad, you know how it is, they're going to keep you, you know. And I thought that I just went to practice, wreck, went to the hospital, now I need to get back because we've got a happy hour, you know, not realize I've been there all day, you know, didn't even know it.

So everything just started coming to real quick, and then they was going to ask me questions, what happened. I didn't have a clue what happened, but I had to, I was going to make up something. I was like, I'd say something, you know, and I kept trying to ask my wife, you know, what happened? I blow a tire, you know, I didn't know. And then all of a sudden it's just like a light come on. I went, boom, woke up and ate a little bit, and I was fine.

Felt normal, and everything was good, you know, I just didn't remember what all went on, you know. But I remember going back to the racetrack thinking, okay, I got to hurry up because I got the happy hour, you know. And I give back to race right, and it's about dark and everybody's gone. And I just lost the whole day, you know, don't even realize what happened, you know. Yeah. So how did they determine you needed to be out two weeks? Just because I was knocked out. And I only stayed out a week, actually.

It was two weeks total, but they were just afraid. At that time, I think Terry Lobani hit his head and was dizzy. Yeah, he went and rode. He had some problems with the, he had some problem with them rocks. What are they calling things? He thought he had a concussion. Or he had a crash that shook all that stuff up. And it creates the vertigo.

And he went and rode roller coasters all day long to reset all that. man, balance in his brain and that, so the vertigo would quit. Right. But it was, I think,

from an impact, but it was a unique situation. But yeah, so are you, a doctor's like, hey man, so it might have been Dr. Petty,

Jerry Petty or somebody. He's like, hey, man, you're not going to run this week, and you're like, damn, really? Right.

And I felt great. Yeah. You know, I don't, you know. You know, you know, not really.

I just thought, you know, if that's what I need to do, I wanted to do, but it was just weird because I felt good. I thought, man, there's nothing wrong me. I wouldn't get dizzy, but maybe I'm going to, you know?

Yeah. And so I sat out the week, and then Kyle Petty drove my car at the Indy, actually, and then another guy drove it at the road course, but I just didn't understand, you know, and didn't understand. Think about concussions or nothing at that point in time. Do you look back on that moment, is having any kind of effect on your term ending with Penske? Did they look at you as, like, damage goods or anything like that, or was that not even? No, I don't think so. I think they did maybe towards the end, or something would go wrong.

You know how that goes. And they're always saying, well, he hit his head to many times or whatever. But, yeah, Andy was definitely a changing point in my career. I feel like, you know, just because of that, you know. And you know how it is? If you get a wreck and you're knocked out, it don't take long. Everybody's like, oh, he hit his head. You know, word, yeah.

You had a word spreads, you know. So. Rusty alone. Rusty. I don't know about that boy right there. Right. A couple screws. Since that crash. Yeah, ever since that crash.

He ain't been the same. Yep. And that happens all the time, or happened back then all the time, you know. And so then I went. I would, you know, when I started with a raid and I finally won again, because I started out myself, you know, I thought maybe something is wrong, you know, and I don't know, just one of those things that we end up winning again. You got back to that.

Yeah, you got back to good. Did the split from Roger? Was that pretty reasonable? Yeah, it was all right. Yeah. Obviously, I didn't, I wanted to go at that point in time. You were ready to go to race. Yeah, looking back, that's probably one of the dumbest things ever done.

Was go to raise? Or leave Roger, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because they were trying to pull it all into one building. have made it work? I think I could have if I started earlier in what I did, you know, because, you know, he bought Michael out, so now Michael's gone,

and we were all fighting for keeping our stuff like we wanted it, you know, and then I kind of stood up for the team feeling like, you know, and then should have just played the deal with Roger and then been done with it, you know. You should have adapted better, like, to what they're doing. You were saying that you were about to say that they were about

to pull the team, you're saying all the way up until the end with you and Penske, y'all were still in separate shops? Right. Because, okay, then when did he buy Michael out? It was like a year or two later, you know, from when they started, you know. Okay, so even though he bought Michael out, the shops were still different. Right. In different places.

But he was about, he was on the cusp of consolidating all that and bringing it all together. Yeah. And I'm sitting there fighting it all the long way, you know, going, man, you know, we're outrun them. I didn't want to go back in time on our setups and chassis and all that stuff, you know. And looking out for the guys, you know, I had great relationship with my team, you know. And I was like, man, most of them's going to be gone. you know because they were going to get rid of our chassis shop and then it just turned into one thing I imagine the culture differences between those two shops would have been

something I mean like I'd it's believable to to have wanted to defended your team I mean like I don't think that that's that it's not outside the box really well it'd be like you were talking about and we've done this with Rusty's a couple times like when you drove your dad's car and it's all road over you're thinking man I don't want to go back in that direction at that point in time you know and that's kind of way I was the whole time you know it's Casey Atwood was driving the 19 car they're going to they move him and I think he went to seven. Right. And you end up getting put in that car. It took a while to get going. Yeah, it did. And I know that you felt like at one point you were either going to get fired or quit in the first year with Ray.

Yeah. And because I thought, you know, I talked to Ray and it was, you know, I knew Ray was a little different as far as the way he does things, you know, and everything. But how would, we all like, Ray. But what do you mean by that? Well, just, you hear stories, you know, the way he runs the team and, you know, and just strict things that he's done, you know, sat in the other and just didn't know. I knew that I had a pretty good deal over here with Penske. It was pretty open. You know, you could, you know, race like we wanted to race, and Roger was a great guy and everything else. But going with Ray, it was just like, you know, like you're saying, it's a big deal. Dodge is coming board. They got two cars instead of one, and I just didn't know what to expect, you know.

And I think Ray thought that just changing the driver out would be, you know, the fix. In case he was a good driver, you know, that. It wasn't. You know, I got over there and it was like, we're running the big springs, running small bars. You know, the stuff. that we just went through two years ago over here, you know? Yeah. You know, we'd have to look at Ray's set-up sheets with him and Gordon ran. And you look in there and it was like 18 to 12, 1,000 and, you know, 300, 325 in the back of it. You know, I'm like, oh, my God, that's how far behind we were, you know.

And eventually, you know, it got all better. But it took a while. Like the first six months, I was just like, you know, I didn't know what to think because, you know, I really didn't. You know, it's just a big deal growing and wouldn't run a good and didn't know what to do after that, you know. So you end up getting back to Victory Lane. You won at Richmond, which puts you into playoffs that year. I think what year was that, 04? That was the first ever chase, I believe.

The first chase, yeah. I remember that was dramatic. Yeah, you kind of come in. Yeah, it was like a 12th round knockout. It's what it felt like, right? Oh, yeah, definitely. You had to win the race to get in, and you won it. Yep.

And we had to win the race to lead the most laps, you know, whatever it took to do that, you know. And before that, you know, I say, the first six months of the raid was kind of weird. It was, but yet it set us up to be great friends after that. You know what I mean? So we were really getting along great after the first six months there. You know, he started realizing that we need to work on our stuff or motors or everything else. So he just basically everybody put your heads down too off working.

And that led us up to that point there to the chase, you know, where we were going to get in that. But that was a hard thing to, you know, as well as I do if anybody says, hey, man, what are you going to do to get in the chase? You said, well, I've got to lead to most laps and win the race. That's pretty hard to do, you know. And, yeah, so we, all week long I felt good about it. I was like, you know, we're going to do it. We can do it, we can do it, we can do it. Because we were like 14th in the points or whatever.

And that whole weekend was just a weird deal. You know, we started off and just the car worked perfect and everything was going great. We didn't qualify that good, but we had a good car in practice and knew we could, you know, run good. And immediately went to the front and let all the laps and won the race and got in. And, you know, that was just, that's probably really one of my, not my number one win, but that was definitely the number two win right there, you know. Yeah, I remember you getting out of the car in Victor Lane, and I don't know that I think you were much happier that night

than you might have been in Pocono, even though Pocono might be number one on your list. That was pretty amazing. A compliment, just like you say, because of all things you had to do in the moment, making the playoffs. Now you're part of this sort of fraternity that moves forward and continues to have a shot at winning the championship. So, you know, I remember I don't, I've never talked to Ray about, I've since gotten to know Ray pretty good over the last couple years,

and we've done some things together, and he's a neat guy. Certainly, those goes about life his own way. I did not know how he was to drive for, but I was there in the garage, and it felt like this is my opinion, not yours, you don't have to agree with me if you don't want to, but I felt like that he came in with a bunch of, he was very excited, very thrilled about this opportunity to start this brand new team and be the guy for a manufacturer, which was Dodge, gets his thing going, wins some races,

has some success. And then I feel like that he fell out of love with that. Right. And that he, whatever all, you know, owning a business, a restaurant, a race team, all that sounds amazing. Think, you know, man, winning races, you're dreaming about, man, we're going to win a championship,

we can win races, we can do this, we could do that. Sounds awesome. But when you really get down to it and you're managing, all the little problems. It's not as much fun as it really, it's not as much fun as you think. And I think that he got to a point, or I'm just going to assume that he got to a point

to where he kind of was over it, you know, and you could see some of the performance, I guess, in the cars and your own performance on the racetrack, all that kind of started to fade a little bit. And he had other interests going on. Him and Aaron were seeing each other. She had a career that she was trying to get going. he wanted to be a big part of that and was racing with her.

A lot of people were tuning in to see her race. She was a female race car driver with possibly legit talent, so there was a bunch of interests there. So he was having a hard time flying under the radar around all that. Do you think that he sort of had kind of fallen out of love, the idea of being a championship car owner in the Cup Series? I wouldn't say falling out of love, but kind of that. But it just seemed like his interest, for some reason.

You know, I know that when we first started that deal, like when I first went over there, Ray always had in the back of his mind that he would never be a Penske or ever, I mean, or Hendry. Yeah. Motorsports, you know. What do you mean? Well, I couldn't get that because I'm sitting there looking at all of our stuff. We had the best of everything. You know, two big shops, you know, three at the end.

Yeah. Had everything you want, you know. And I never, and he'd always keep in the back of his mind like, well, but Hendry's got this and, you know, Penske's got that. He felt like he was never going to. to measure up. Right. And that's why I felt like, from what I understood, you know, just all the time, you know, and I'm like, I didn't see it that way.

I don't think anybody there sent it that way because we had a good deal going on, you know. And but he always had that, you know, that's just the way Ray is too. He wants to be the best, but he also realizes that what it takes to be the best, you know, to get there. And then, you know, Aaron thing and whatever happened on that deal, I'm not sure if had anything to do with it. But it just seemed like all of a sudden it just went downhill and don't know why, you know, understand why, you know.

Yeah, help me understand it. There were two cars. You and Bill still driving, right? Right. Or no, Bill is now in a third car. Right. A test car. Yeah, Casey went away and then Bill started in that car.

You know, went back to that car after Casey Kane came on. Casey Kane and you are teammates. Bill's showing up running a limited schedule, right? Right. And it's not a full-time. No. And then they're going to give Casey your team and you're going to get the 91 test team. Right.

I'm going to the Bill's deal that he was running. What's happening in the Casey's guys that just got to go away? Yeah, they kind of, I don't know if they went away or just. But that, but you knew this test team was a shell of what a cup, you know, legitimate cup contender needed to be. Right. And you were like, this is BS. Right.

Yeah, pretty much. And, you know, because I watched Bill run bad in it. Bill went from winter races in a nine car running great, you know, and I knew it wasn't Bill Elliott. Yeah. He does a good job, you know. And Casey didn't struggle, but he wasn't, you know, we were running a little bit better than he was at the time. and gaining on it every week.

Who was your crew chief? Well, I had a couple. Kenny Francis was one of them, and we had several over there. We switch up quite a bit, you know, move stuff around. But Kenny was with Bill when he was running good. Kenny came to us, we were running good. And then Tommy Baldwin came apart of Casey's deal. And then Tommy went away and.

Yeah, and then they just switched. They're going to give Kenny to Casey. Right, which was a good combination. They did great together, you know. But it was all of our stuff that on the 19 that we had, you know. Yeah. And so then I went to the 91 or whatever. number was at a time and and didn't run good you know just bad yeah real bad yeah and so then you

make the comments about you know I don't I can't tell you what Ray thinks because I don't seem and all that blows up and well and one reason why that happened was because when my team went away you know okay they're over here with the Casey's deal you know and we're in the same shop but I'm willing to do whatever I got to do to build this team back up or whatever we got to do to make it work, you know, and I just wasn't seeing Ray, you know. Ray used to be on top of all that stuff, you know, he wouldn't let it happen. And if the nine was running bad, he'd be on the nine box. You know, if the 19, he'd be back and forth trying to help both our deals, you know, and all of a sudden I'm with the 91. Now I'm sitting over going, man, you know. I ain't getting no hell. Yeah, where to go,

you know? Yeah. And I kind of knew what a lot of people were thinking, you know, and I kind of knew what was going on. I didn't say nothing, you know, but I knew that if we got new motors coming out and and I'm running old ones and my new one that I should have got it's over here in the ARCA car. You know what I mean? That's right. Go ahead. Because Evernaham Racing was actually fielding that car in ARCA, right?

Right. So Aaron was driving an Evertonham car. Yeah, she was our developmental driver. That's right. So she's getting new motors. Right. And getting a lot more attention than what, you know, as far as the team itself, you know, they were getting a lot of stuff to make sure she

ran good, you know. Yeah. So you help me understand what happens. You're going to get fired in the middle of the year? Yeah, I wasn't planning on it, but here's something else that happened that I was going and tell you the deal. Sure. I made a big mistake.

Something about a picture. Yeah, I made a huge mistake. Now, listen, I know what you're getting. I know the story you're getting rid of the tale, and I want to help you out. So you made this picture of Ray's wife with you. The end of the year. Yeah. Like when they're going to give all our stuff to Casey the next year, right?

So this switch is happening in the off season. Right. All right. Right. Yes. And we go to the banquet in New York. Yep. And I love Mary to death.

You know, Mary was Ray's wife. And we're in a limo. We got cameras out. You know, there's cameras. She's, oh, take one to me. You know, I took a picture of her. And she said, well, you blow that up for me. It's just her?

No, we're all together. We're all together. We're all. Me, Ray, everybody's around each other. All of you're in the picture. Yeah. Yeah. No.

No, she's just in the picture. We're all in the limo. They're all in the limo. Yeah. And she tells me, I take a picture. So I took a picture of her, you know, like that. She said, blow it up for me and give it to Ray during the Christmas party, which was a couple weeks later. So I see, really?

She said, yeah. Was it a good picture? Yeah, great picture. Great picture. Great picture. You took a hell of picture. Yeah, I took a hell picture. Yeah, I took a hell picture.

So I blew it up and did what she said to that, right? Blued up. It was about, I don't know, it was probably about that big. And framed it. And I thought, man, she's going to be excited. He's going to be excited getting this. Well, I didn't know what they knew at that time. She knew it?

Obviously. you know she set your ass set you up yeah i think i think just to get at him but to not to set me up personally but just to i guess make something happen so we go to the christmas party and she's not there and it's only a couple weeks ago before that you know i got my big picture you know and i'm all talking doing a little speeches i walk up on stage and ray and see her right i got something for you in front of everybody in front of everybody and he owns them it's a picture of mary smiling a great picture of her you know and i thought it was weird she wasn't there anyway Did he smile?

Sort of and not really. You know, it just kind of awkward. It was awkward. And I felt awkward after I give it to him. Why did it not ring? Why did it not dawn on you? Because I didn't know that they weren't together. Yeah, but damn.

Why would you give him a picture of his wife? What the hell? That's the weirdest thing to give somebody. Even if she said to do it. She owned my car to time. She was the car owner. Oh, my gosh. I would have still been like, man, I just don't feel comfortable.

I didn't. I really didn't, you know, but. But you could have some questions. questions. It seems like to me, there's a follow-up. It seems like to me that you might have been like okay with this if it pissed him off, right? Part of you was like, you know what?

If this is what I think it is, so be it. Yeah, because I was got to piss too. Yeah, right. You're probably right about that a little bit. So I thought, well, but I still didn't know for sure. Right. You know, I thought it was weird why she wanted to give it to me, but I wasn't afraid to piss him off either. You know, so I went, hey, here's, you know, look at this, you know, and he acted weird.

and then I went to drive for my new team, you know, the new team you had for me. Yeah, the 91 guys, and it didn't work out very good. And then I'm going to back up another couple steps here. I was at Pocono, and Aaron came over early in the deal. And he said, will you help her around Pocono? You know, sure. She comes with my motor home. Aaron, what are you doing?

I said, I'll just tell you, I'll make a laugh right under my head and tell you how I do it, where I downshifting and stuff. And I started telling her, she said, well, really? Going into one of you downshift there or this? I said, well, Ray said to the downshift here way after you got in the corner, you know. I said, well, some people do, you know, but we all kind of knew that they're getting a great guy.

I'm not saying anybody, but he would be involved in some of our conversation about driving me and casing bill and all of us, you know. Some stuff you just leave, like your dad, talking about the setups and all that, you just took it upon, you always took it and that's what went on with it. And I said, well, Aaron, sometimes you've got to, if he says anything,

you got to use your own judgment and just if you feel comfortable shifting in, wherever do it there, you know, she said, what are you saying that I shouldn't listen to Ray? And I said, uh-oh. Yeah, I'm thinking,

but there again, I didn't know what they knew. You know what I mean? So I'm like, well, me and Casey, you know, Bill,

we kind of, you kind of take things in. So I shouldn't listen to Ray? Not all the time. I said, maybe sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, you just make the own,

and I've seen this looking at our face. And I think, but now he's a great one to listen to you. You know, back it up. Well, I didn't realize it when, when,

at that point in time, what was going on. You know what I mean? So then she leaves the motor home, obviously. And when you go back and tell Ray anything like that, you know, especially if you're real close to him closer than I knew they were close. Ray Jeremy said not listening to you. You know, I shouldn't listen to you.

I could imagine that conversation. Yeah, there's no context that makes that appropriate or, you know, well-received. Right, especially if they're closer than I thought they were, you know. And just knowing Ray, you know. So that happened, the pitcher happened, and then the media happened. And at that point in time, I mean... You had pushed a lot of buttons. Yeah.

And put him on the Chicago Tribune, what it was, a full-page picture up, you know? And I hate it. I really do, because I really didn't, I wasn't intended on none of that. I was just kind of upset at the time and didn't, you know, at a certain time, not an errand. But I knew after the fact when it all went down, I was like, well, that's probably one of the things that pissed him off really good, you know? So the last race with Ray at Indy, you got black flagged on, like, what the hell is that? Do you remember all that? We qualified like fourth, and I knew, had a feeling that was going to be in my last race.

I just felt it the way the Dodge guys were and everybody's around me, you know. So we started fourth, we take off and the car's terror. You ever have one of those days where you think you got a good car and you take off and you just straight backwards. We've all had them. So I get in the wall, getting a wreck a little bit, but wasn't that bad. There's enough for a mess defender's side up, and we worked on it all day. And I was bound to the tournament. I wasn't going to run bad that day.

So I just kept running hard, just running hard. We kept working on it, getting better. and we're actually now at the end of the race we're running pretty good you know bandaged stuff and everything else all of a sudden we had pitted in about five laps later out here bringing in or they're going to black flake you thought man something you know hanging off the car or fenders off of or something you know what's going on and uh i started asking questions bringing in they're going to black flag okay so i come down pit row and i come down pit road it was pulling in my pit stall and everybody nobody come over the wall i'm just sitting on

pit row like this by myself real quiet and i thought well if they're not going to say none i'm not going to and I don't know what the deal is, you know. We're just sitting there. Nobody's saying nothing to quiet for like three minutes to see Mike. Everybody's, whoa, won, won, won't go by, and I'm sitting here, not the first crew member's coming over the wall. Then I hear, Ray said this park. Wow, so weird.

Yeah, I said, okay, I just got out of it, walked off, you know, and that was last time I was sitting. You got out of it on pit road. Yeah. Yeah. Got out and walked off, and then I knew right the end, it was over, you know. Oh, but. But that whole black flag deal is a whole other conversation.

You know, now looking back, you know. I guess, you know, that, The next week you go, you go, did you go back to the shop every end? No. No. You never went back. Yeah. And so you and Ray hadn't talked since.

Well, he had, I guess, sent a pressure race out wherever I was fired and just at the other that week, you know. Oh, yeah, because you set, you filed a suit against them or something or. Well, because we just extended my contract. You either get paid or get me back, put me back in the car so I can race or pay me. Right. Was that right? Yeah, right.

When they ended up doing it. Because I was an exclusive driver for the 19 car and they put bill in it. If you got a contract, the only way you're going to get the, through your contract. If we let that go, that's saying that we're okay with it, then it's over, you know, and we just re-sign my contract. And I'm sitting here the rest of the year. What am I going to do, you know? And so we did the judgment thing, wherever they do. And we won. Well, we won on Friday that week, and they're getting ready-qualify, and they stopped the 19 car. You can't qualify, you know, and then until you put your exclusive driver in there or, you know,

you pay him his contract, right? I didn't want my whole contract. I just wanted enough money to get me through the rest of the year, you know, to I found something. So then they have to settle, and that's what happened. Damn. And then Brian was up there and all that stuff, watching the whole thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you feel like all that kind of started the... When you say there was more to the black flag,

I know what I think you're insinuating, but I'll just ask you. Like, what would be more to the black flag? At that time, I didn't know what, you know, I didn't think nothing else about the black flag other than he wanted me to park it that day, you know? Okay, but then what was more to it then? When everything started going downhill, you know, And then you think that there was something with NASCAR then. Sort of, you know, that's what the ex-wife, you know, had that conversation.

Got it. You know, started telling me some things that went on. You got it. I see what you're saying. Yeah. You know, Jimmy Spencer has that same accusation. And he said it on our show. That's why I'm saying it.

Is it, he thought that Brian black flagged him at somewhere, a race in California, I believe, just out of a personal vendetta or whatever. Yeah, they had some sort of disagreement. So you go drive cars for Bill Davis, Gene Haas, and then your own team. Right. And this is just a couple races here and there. Right. And that's when you start to feel like, you know, everybody in the garage is turning their back on you.

It's getting harder and harder for you to kind of remain entrenched in the sport. Right. But I really wouldn't thinking. You know, I thought, okay, I can't find a ride or whatever, but I'm still thinking, okay, if I start my own deal, it'd be cool anyway. You know what I mean? So I do my own deal, you know, and started that and then not realizing. I know this sounds crazy. looking back, I could have done a lot of things different,

promise you looking back. And looking back, we showed up at Daytona, and I had Tony Furr's my crew chief. And I had a pretty cool team, but they were all, I wouldn't say redneck, but they were all kind of cool guys been in sport, older guys, but some of them been in trouble, some of them haven't, you know, cheating or whatever you call it, you know.

And so we get the deal going and running. We go to Daytona, and we got a sponsor between the time I bought the stuff and then bought the cars and stuff, and then we went to Daytona. It was like a couple of week period. And the sponsor was All-Sport, you know, that brand had been in and out-of-sport. There again, totally not thinking,

just head down trying to get her, go to Daytona. So we're in the Gatorade Duel, 125's wherever it was at the time, running, you know, on the edge of getting in. We had to make the rate, you know, finish whatever it is, ninth or whatever. And the whole time we were talking about, you know, there's all-sport on the car and this, that, and the other. and, you know, we made the race, obviously made the Dayton 500,

but not realizing that, again, you know, that's NASCAR's TV time, not mine, you know, not yours, you know, it's their time, and then we took up a lot of their time with a competitive, you know, the all-sport and this, that, and the other, and, you know, I don't know, I feel like I did a lot of things that weren't politically correct again. Yeah. I remember that day in the motion, when you got out of the car and the interview of you making the race and how excited you.

you were and y'all i mean you really had uh put together a deal that um probably a lot of people didn't have a lot of confidence in making the race right and y'all y'all y'all were able to do that which was had to been pretty um because for a new team any kind of team that's that's tight on the budget

you got to make that race right that's such a big paying race and if you don't um it really sets up for a very difficult future going forward yeah and i know i don't we knew that you know and we had a couple weeks to prepare for you know but making the Dayton and 500 had to happen, you know. And we put on two tires and just went forward at the end and made it, you know. But you're right about that. It was a deal with it was to make it or it was going to be it, you know.

Yeah. So how, I guess how far had your team gotten when all the drug tests and everything and all that starts happening? Like, what was the potential for that team? Where do you think you would have ended up? Who knows, you know, probably, you know, shut down somewhere down the line. It was going to be tough. It was a long road ahead of us, and I knew that.

And that was the time where there was 60 cars showing up, and, you know, a bunch of them was going home. There was starting parks. I didn't want to do a starting park deal, you know, and just, I don't know, just trying everything we could, you know, keep it going, keep it working. And we were struggling, you know what I mean, for sure. Man.

You sold all that stuff to some dude. What was his name? I don't even remember. I was going to, the Carter guy out of Georgia. Yeah. Did you sell it to him? He bought some of it, then I'd auctioned the rest of it off, you know. Got rid of it.

I know, it's been a long road. It has. And all that was in a short amount of time. I know what we were talking about, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So when you look back on your career, man, what do you miss? I miss a racing part.

You know, a lot of people ask me at all time, but do you miss it, you know? Yeah. Man, I miss driving a car all the time. I miss the fun times in the garage area, you know, the racing in general. You know what I mean? I don't miss the political part of it because I wouldn't, I don't feel like that. First of all, I wasn't, I was trying to do anything politically incorrect. I just wasn't educated on it, I guess.

know is what I look at it you know and but looking back now I would have done things differently far as that goes have you been to a cup race no I went to one the week after that they kicked me out I was standing on your hauler actually on your um out in the infield your hospitality guys hauler you really yeah they uh they escorted me out they made you leave yeah what year is that 2009 and charlotte you have not been back to a race a cup race since then no exfinity race uh-uh truck race nothing nothing but nothing would you be allowed No. Okay, so you're not. They wouldn't allow me on the facility on the premises.

Why and why? I know. That's what's crazy about it all, you know. Would you go? Would you want to go? I'd go. Yeah, I'd probably go. Yeah, I definitely would, you know.

And like I said, I just want to run the short tracks, you know. If I can just run my, and modify it again, you know, on some of the NASCAR sanctioned tracks or whatever, that'd be cool, you know? So I guess that, let me ask you that. So if the track is sanctioned by NASCAR, you're not allowed to compete at it. No, because you got to. Even if it's not a NASCAR series. If it's not a NASCAR series, I can.

Okay. Yeah. So like the smart tour. Yeah, smart tour I could run. You could run. Okay. Man. That's why I ended up in the, you know, run a lot of dirt races because there's not any sanctioned dirt tracks, you know.

When did we sit down? 11 o'clock. Yeah, something like that. It's like 2 o'clock. Is it 2 now? It's 1.49. You're going to be okay? Yeah, I'm going to.

Somewhere. I might have to pee in the minute. You're the record now. You've got the record on this one. You do have the record. We've had some long ones, and this is, this will be probably the time. I can't wait it's 2 o'clock. That's crazy.

You can get in here and just start talking and it's just fun listening to all the stories. We've enjoyed it. I wish mine was more positive for everybody, you know, but some of it's kind of... You know what? Honestly, I appreciate you coming in here and being willing to talk about it. I mean, it's been all these years. You don't have to tell this story to nobody. Right.

But people do want to hear about it. And I think people do wonder what you're up to. And when I posted, when I share social media is just a tip of the iceberg. It's not the world's opinion. but when I shared that you were coming on, I mean, we've had people ask for you for so long to come on this show. Anytime we're like,

hey, man, who should we get? Your name comes up more often than most anyone else's. So there's going to be a lot of people that are excited about this. I know you've done other podcasts. You've not been completely out of the media

over the last several years, but you don't have to do this. And I appreciate you coming and sharing, telling your side of it. You know, I guess it really at this point, doesn't matter what the real truth is. It's just, you know, everybody's going to have their opinions and feelings about it.

But I think that the fact that you're able to come and be clear and honest and tell your truth and talk about all the old times and stuff that it's nice. Well, I appreciate that. I really do. I've been, you know, like a lot of people, curious what you've been up to, hoping things are going well for you. And it was good to see you at the dirt track the other week. Yep. And that's been a lot of fun, too, by the way.

Going to the track. Yeah, I've had a lot of that, you know, or helping them. You know, his name Spencer Bradshaw. I told you and introduced you to him and that they're great people. And I've had a lot of fun go out there trying to help them. Yeah, that's got to be pretty enjoyable. I mean, if you're in your, I would, I still miss driving, you know. Right.

But so I don't know if it'd be fun for me to go even, it's nice to go see Wyatt race every once in a while. Right. I don't help. I don't know nothing about those carts. But, I mean, I can fix something. It falls off. Right. I don't know how to make you go fast.

I don't either yet. So we're working on that too. So that'd be a little bit. out of my wheelhouse. Yeah, man. Where are you heading? Probably the racetrack. Going to Millbridge tonight.

Yeah, they're racing in the night. Okay, so you'll be at Millbridge or night. So if people wanted to go say hey to you, you're at Millbridge on Wednesdays, pretty much? Yeah, pretty much. Like Tuesdays and sometimes Wednesday, sometimes Saturday. You know, they race all the time, you know. I think I'm racing more now with them guys and I have in my whole career, really,

as far as per week, you know. So you must see a lot of the, you must see a lot of folks from the industry at Millbridge. Yeah, I have. A bunch of people around. Yeah, and it's been pretty cool. because it's kind of, like I said, brought a lot of people, you know, I've missed in the past and everything else. So it's definitely helping me, man.

Really would love to see you back behind the wheel of a race car. Yes. I know. I'd like to be behind a long. Absolutely. I would be, I would probably tune in to an SRX race if I knew you were in the field. Really?

Well, I appreciate that, but I would. I really do. I've watched a lot of it last year, but some of them I skipped. Right. But if I think if you were driving, I'd probably tune in. What if both of them? If we were both in there, you know what I don't think they got to check that anybody right.

Right. I was thinking to say that'd be a pretty cool deal too. Yeah. That would be fun. I was really jealous of Chase when he run Nashville Fairgrounds because I love that racetrack. I do too. That's one of my favorite places, man. Nashville's always been awesome.

Yeah. Been good. Well, man, we're going to try to keep our yard of the ground and keep up with you. Okay. Well, I appreciate it. Anytime you want me on, I'll be on. All right. Good to talk to you.

Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you, buddy. Jeremy Mayfield on the Dale Jr. Well, Mike, that's the Jeremy Mayfield story. So a lot of people have been asking to get Jeremy on here for ever since we've been doing this. And it didn't disappoint. No, he didn't. And again, I know we said this earlier, but I hope he doesn't regret coming on and telling a story.

I think, you know, his opinion matters to both of us. We want our guests to come in here and feel like that they were treated fairly. And I certainly think we did. Listen, he opened up a lot. Again, I mentioned the most crazy thing that he said, just heard it and that was what he did at the Everham Christmas party. I think that that sort of inspires my feeling that he burned that bridge. He didn't just burned a bridge, but he blew it up on the way out. I think that the germy that we saw today and is a completely different person from

the guy that was doing those type of things. And so in his, when he was a driver, I think that he was emboldened and confident and overconfident and felt like he had the power and influence to basically kind of say and do as he liked right and without any repercussions when and and he would go do or say these things right about a car owner or whatever right go at NASCAR or um thinking that it you know it was not a big deal and he's i guess i'm I'm kind of, like, he's surprised that it was this big story in the Chicago Tribune the next morning. Like, hey, like, man, I can't believe that happened. Are you serious?

Of course you knew that was going to happen. Right. You might not have wanted that to happen, but you knew when you were saying it that it was a big deal. And it's pretty interesting. And he kind of wants to frame up the situation at the Christmas party like it was, like, oh, I didn't know. I didn't know what I was doing You know dang well He knew what he was doing

And you said that you called him out on it You said wait a second Yeah That wasn't just a thing You know The wife asked you to take a picture of her You didn't think that was even a little bit Right

You didn't know what was going on And so yeah And so I think with Jeremy's story You had to keep that in mind That was as you're hearing it from him He ain't telling you everything He ain't telling you all of the ingredients.

He may not even remember it all the right that the details. That's a good point. But I know that, you know, in his mind, you know, what he did on that Christmas party isn't that egregious or isn't that serious. And he even would tell you the story in a way that maybe, yeah, I didn't know what I was doing when absolutely he had,

he was in on the joke. Yeah. Right. And so I think you got to kind of keep that in mind as you're hearing the whole story. Yeah. Right. Listen, everybody reserves the right to recognize that you may, you might have been an asshole, you know, along the way. I just had this observation for myself, frankly.

I came across a journal that I wrote in my freshman year of college. We're talking 20 years ago, right? More than that when my freshman year of college. And I'm reading this journal and I'm thinking, there's some things in there that are pretty embarrassing. Like, what an asshole? Why would I say that? I've thought that. What was I thinking?

And I was like, man, I don't want anybody to ever see this. This is embarrassing. And, yes, like, you forget sometimes the kind of like, you know, the imbecile that you were growing up. You make mistakes. Jeremy could have absolutely used a mentor. But I have a suspicion he burned the bridge with the potential mentors, you know, like he probably said something to the, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, whoever it is, certainly his owners. You know, Cranfus probably was the closest thing to a mentor.

mentor and he was kind of a fireball himself, right? So I'm like, I don't, he could have used somebody going, hey, listen, back it down a notch. You're, you're messing up, you know, whatever. Get a little too big for you, Bridget. That's right. And, you know, he burned bridges along the way. But like, you know, we all reserve the right to try to improve our lives and improve ourselves as a person. I hope, and I think he's done that, but he certainly has made a very public, you know, made some public decisions that probably weren't the greatest for him. Thank you, Ally, for your continued support of the show and the entire Dirty Mo Media team. It's time for some Asr Jr.

All right. We are live on YouTube. Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. and you're here for the Asc Junior portion of the show. Brought to you by Xfinity. Xfinity X-Fi is fast and reliable. And I'm a customer and enjoy using it. And I hope you guys will check it out. Xfinity does so much for not only this podcast, but the entire sport of NASCAR. We ought to support them.

And they got Ed Helms. on their commercials now. How about that? That is awesome. I love Ed Helps. So, yeah, we'd like to get him in the studio. Come on, Wixfinity. Help us out.

That's right. Anyways, Hannah has your questions, and she's going to bring them to the table. Let's go, Hannah. All right, this first one here comes from Caleb. Actually, a lot of the folks have kind of been talking about the Xfinity race this weekend at Portland.

It said, Dale, do you think the Xfinity series needs their own crown jewel race? Maybe something along the lines of a standalone, when the Cup series is off 400 miles or so with an extra big payday, could be good for exposure. I think this has a lot to do with the conversation we had where maybe we let the All-Star race, let the Xfinity guys race for a million dollars instead one day. Well, things like that can't really be manufactured, right?

You can't just say this race is now a crown jewel. That either happens naturally from fan engagement and if something, you know, If something's happening to fans love and can't get enough of, then you might say, well, man, this is the crown jewel of the Xfinity series. I hate that slogan. I hate that word. I hate that, I hate, I hate, you hate crown jewel. Well, you have a jewelry phobia.

Well, I do, but it also sounds like we've taken something from a different sport. It's like we've taken something from, you know, horse racing or something, right? like the Triple Crown. What other, is there another sport out there that has something called the Crown Jewel? Like the Crown Jewels? I feel like there's got to be something else. I don't know. I have less of a problem with that and more of a problem with this is our Super Bowl of racing.

Oh, yeah. That's the one I have a problem. Really? You don't like that one? Completely hijacking football. Yeah. Well, I think we used to say that because we didn't think anybody, we didn't think we really had that big of a fan base and we had to kind of give them an idea that this race,

I know it's the first race, but this is the big. race if that makes any sense but uh talking about the Daytona 500 but I hear you now I mean it's kind of redundant to keep on going with it you don't hear it as much anymore I think people agree with you Mike anyways what did I so Portland seemed pretty cool didn't I didn't expect that to be too exciting but uh ended up having some rain and all that so that made it pretty interesting guys practicing qualifying all that in the weather but uh I don't you know I don't I don't I don't know what I'm more worried about what is the Xfinity series in a couple of years. I think that we got to all think about, man, the bigger concern, I think is the identity of the series,

is we've went to the next-gen car, and the truck series is important to NASCAR because it's trucks, right? It manufacturers want to sell trucks. and so the truck series still matters to a Chevrolet or a Toyota, whereas the Xfinity series doesn't have that identity or doesn't have that connection to the manufacturers, I don't think, as it once did. It never really did. It never really was, I mean, it was cool to get the Camaros and stuff

and the bussel cars, you know, back, but it never had that importance, you know, like the trucks did or like the Cup series does in terms of the manufacturer's support, and that's so important. that it finds its identity going forward. What does it become, right? I'm a little worried about that because that's where we're at. You know, that's where this company is.

What is the Xfinity series in five years? And that, that to me is going to be an interesting thing to find out. You know, does it become like NASCAR's venture into electric cars? Does Xfinity go full electric? is like a way for them to vet out all the bugs and problems with that before they take that to the cup level. Are we going to have SUVs? You know?

What's going to happen? Because they're going to change it. It's not going to stay like this, all right? There's no way NASCAR keep their hands off of it. And so we'll see what happens in a couple years. And to kind of continue the, unfortunately, the Crown Jewel conversation, I remember this one coming from social around Coke 600 weekend with Brickyard, now not can being really a crown jewel race because it's non-existent,

has Denny Hamlin that Danny Hamlin therefore completed the crown? Okay. Everybody has an opinion about it, which races are those races. So everybody like Brad Caslowski would say Knight Bristol is one of those, whereas someone else might say that it's not or the Southern 500. is or isn't there you know there's a couple people that don't have the southern 500 on their list so we we need to first determine which are the races uh let's just let's all just put that in concrete and make a choice these are the races who goes first it's Daytona you

Daytona 500 world 600 southern 500 that's it for me I say now that the brickyard's gone right Like that would be just a three. I don't know that the brick yard. What? I mean, are you going to say the Bristol night race? Are you going to make that? Bristol night would be my borderline one. But I don't know.

I think Crown Jewel doesn't need to be four. Right. It could be three. Why do we need four? Then it's easier to. Why do we need 17 people in the chase? No, but if it's 16 people. It's easier to accomplish.

If it's not four. We don't have to have. Everything doesn't have to be important. Listen, to me, to me, if it's not. you want to sit there and have a crown jewel conversation, what makes it is whether or not it could change in time whether the race becomes bad or not. And if Bristol night race is going to be good one year and bad of next year and this, that, and the other, then it wasn't a crown jewel, in my opinion.

You know, the Southern 500, though, sort of stood the test of time. But you're right. There's people that wouldn't even know to consider that a big race today. But if you're taking that into consideration, the Coke 600, this is the first year that it's been good in a hot minute. Then maybe it's not even. Again, I'm just saying, listen, if we go into your world of sprint cars and stuff, you got Chili Bowl, you know. Knoxville Nationals. You got Knoxville Nationals.

And there's just no question. I don't need to know whether the race was good or not. I don't need to know what kind of compound they put on a track. I don't need to know what the rules packages were. We just know that Chili Bowl is big. Knoxville National is big. You know, if you want to get, you know, that's just saying. There doesn't need to be this criteria that I got to contemplate.

every year. Right. If the Daytona race to me is really it for us. Yeah. It really is. Daytona, I don't have to know the result. I don't know I have to know anything to know that it's going to be a big deal.

So, I mean, I know I'm also probably on an island on that idea. But I was going to say maybe we can take that to social eventually on what the crown is like because a lot of folks are chiming in on the chat saying that they're four, if they had to choose four are the 500, the World 600, the Southern 500, and Bristol Knight.

So everyone's been putting those four. Everybody. Y'all have just made the decision. Those are the four. It is made. Let's write it concrete. Done. Good job.

We've got it figured out. Close the book. Close it. No more conversation. So those are the four. And Watkins Glenn. Nope. All right.

Next one here. Kind of changing the pace to the truck race. After watching the Carson host of our accident, what do you think about? having some sort of signal light, similar to what's used in road course races at the back glass to alert safety workers, hazard lights to alert officials that you need help quickly, along with the window net lowered. And I think we can also group in the ideology of potentially having a safety crew that is specific to NASCAR that travels with NASCAR instead of doing localized stuff,

because IndyCar has their own AMR team that goes to every race with them in comparison to NASCAR using localized staff. So this, you know, what I saw at Indy this year, year was really incredible. We had a couple accidents, not Brian Hurtt, but Hurtt's, Colton. Colton Hurtt was crashing turn two, and he comes sliding. He's upside down. I'm thinking, man, he can't get out with the halo and all that. He's stuck in there. You know, that's terrifying. You don't ever want to be stuck in a car. But the corner workers were moving before the car stopped. So they're already pulling out of their little holes in the fence to get the him before he even came to a stop and they were right on top of that car seconds later and um the other

thing i saw as i was walking through the garage that morning to go to my first uh hit on tv they had a uh blank tub uh indycar tub sitting in the garage in the back of the garage and there were about 25 a m r corner workers standing around it and they were individually taking turns pulling a dummy out of the cockpit. And this is like 10 o'clock in the morning before the race starts. And they were like having drills. Like you'd see, you know, firemen having drills going up and down the tower. And I love that.

You know what I mean? I mean, if you're a race car driver, getting ready to go out there and compete, it's super dangerous. And you saw that in the back of the garage happening on race day morning. You're like, man, these people are on it. They're going to be, you know, all that's going to be. fresh on their memory if they're ever put in a scenario where they've got to rescue a driver because they were practicing that morning.

Not that this doesn't happen in NASCAR, I'm not sure. But I loved what I saw at Indy with their AMR crew. And the consistency knowing that they're there every week and it's the same people and their training is top-notch, their ability to get out on the racetrack because they're working with the same tower week after week, they all understand each other's urgency and cadence, and they're communicating during the week back and forth with the race directors, working, tuning, fixing, and adjusting things,

and getting to those drivers in the quickest possible manner. And they're setting the example, in my mind, that all motorsports should strive to be. and so, you know, it's, it's, we got work to do. I think after we saw what we saw, we got a little work to do. And, you know, unfortunate for, unfortunate that we have to go through the experience to realize that, right? But hopefully, you know, I'm sure NASCAR is going to do whatever they can and not have a scenario like that play out again and do a little better job of trying to get their guys out there. to a crash vehicle with an injured driver.

I don't know what else needs to happen as far as flashing lights and all that good stuff. You know, injured drivers, you know, are injured. You know, we can't rely on them to do anything special or unique to give us a signal. Hey, man, I'm in trouble in here, but I'm sure there's some technology and so forth that we could look at to. I think they, you know, the idea in my mind is the corner worker should be. there as quick as possible, injured or not. The guy made contact with anything that, you know, they make you contact is the only box that needs to get checked for them to be on top of that car when it's done crashing, right?

And so I think they just got a little work to do about getting them out there a little quicker. And last one here for this one's Ask Junior. This one comes from Chase Briscuit, which I thought was humorous. It says, with your dad and Johnny Cash, both so perfectly sharing the man in black nickname, did the two ever meet that you can recall? I don't recall that, but very cool. Chase Briscott. I love humorous names like that on social media. That flub of a question was saved by the name.

Yeah. You're right. I wonder if Chase Briscoe heard our commentary from last week. He did respond on social media. He responded on Twitter. Very funny. What did he say? He had a GIF.

It was a Jim Carrey movie. Jim Carrey, dumb, or dumb and dumber. Where he's trying to get his head back in a limo zine. And he can't get his head back in. Awesome. Well, that is it for this week's Ask Junior. All right, y'all. Appreciate y'all supporting our podcast.

Thanks to Xfinity and everything they do for us. And like I said, that Xfinity X5 is fast, reliable, secure. I can say that because I have experienced it. And everybody watching this YouTube, don't forget that Xfinity provides Wi-Fi coverage that delivers a speed that all your devices need, including watching Ask Junior on YouTube. So thank you for doing that, and remember to keep the questions coming on at Xfinity Racing on Twitter.

Thank you to Xfinity. Proud, Premier Partner of NASCAR. Boy, that's a mouthful. Well, Mike, a great show. Ask Junior was good. Some good questions there. Mayfield wraps up. And next week, we got a pretty special episode coming out.

Right, the best of our cheating stories. Hold up, not cheating. creative thinking, innovation stories, the best of innovation. Yeah, we try to compile a really challenge Matthew to dig deep, deep into our archives and bring out some really, really good stories, not just the low-hanging fruit, the obvious stuff, but really dig deep and get those good stories out. And anyway, you know, we love it. We're trying to encourage it.

We're trying to encourage more people to come in here. Yeah. And maybe they'll make the innovation cheating episode part two. That's right. When we do that one. So anyhow, your guys are going to enjoy that a lot. We love trying to bend the rules in NASCAR. And we love encouraging other people to do it, so we're not having the ones suffering the consequences to it.

Yeah. That should be another episode is NASCAR fines. We should just cover fines and why they happen and who they happen to. That'd be awesome. Get that person's comments on it. All right, man. Good stuff. We'll see y'all later.

Have a good week. Check out Dirtymo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.