The Dale Jr. Download - 400 - Dale Jr. Reacts to Bristol Night Race; Tony Glover Shares Some “Innovation”

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

Everyone in stock car racing dreams of being on a Daytona 500-winning team, but how about three wins in five years? For Tony Glover, that dream became reality in the early 1990s, and on this week’s episode of The Dale Jr. Download, he joins Dale Earnhardt Jr. and co-host Mike Davis to discuss the pieces of the puzzle that made it possible.Glover has been a part of racing his entire life. He attended his first race at three weeks old. Tony recalls his earliest memory in racing, which consisted of his father Gene flying out of Cleveland Speedway in Tennessee. The trauma of seeing his father’s crash did little to deter his love for the sport though, and by his teenage years, Tony was cleaning parts and turning wrenches.After spending many years on the road crew chiefing for his father’s late model program, which yielded the 1979 NASCAR Sportsman National Championship, Tony accepted a position at Petty Enterprises. Tony explains that the year he spent in Level Cross, North Carolina was the equivalent of a four-year college education. But, when his grandmother became ill in ‘83, he decided to move closer to home to spend time with her. As fate would have it, Larry McClure and Tim Morgan had just bought out G.C. Spencer and established their Morgan-McClure outfit in nearby Abingdon, Virginia and Tony was hired to work as part of the pit crew. Tony shares the story of how he became a crew chief for the team when Spencer, who had stayed on in the chiefing role, quit suddenly during the teching process at an event at Nashville Fairgrounds. This bumped Tony into the position and he remained there for the duration of his time with the outfit. They discuss the revolving roster of drivers Morgan-McClure had during the ‘80s, which included Lennie Pond, Tommy Ellis, Joe Ruttman and Rick Wilson. Tony explains that when Rick departed for RahMoc after ‘89, his choice to fill the seat was the hard charging Ernie Irvan. And while Phil Parsons would start the ‘90 season in the cockpit, after a few failed outings Irvan would eventually get the seat and help put Morgan-McClure on the map.The Irvan-Glover combination was quite successful, bringing home seven Cup wins including the ‘91 Daytona 500, but would only last a few seasons as Irvan would depart for Robert Yates in ‘93. His replacement was a driver Tony was well acquainted with from his years in the late model scene: fellow Tennessean Sterling Marlin. The new pairing won in their first outing, the ‘94 Daytona 500. When they followed up with a back-to-back triumph in the Great American Race in ‘95, they had the entire NASCAR garage looking in their direction. Dale and Tony get into some of the innovation on the plate-track cars in the Morgan-McClure stable. Tony talks about the revolutionary X-pipe exhaust system that was brought to them by Boyd Butler, better known as Dr. Gas. The story of how they kept the technical advantage a secret is incredible, including a non-disclosure agreement and wrapping the car in blankets in the garage. Ultimately a crash photo on the cover of Stock Car Racing Magazine leaked the guarded secret to the world.In ‘97, the desire to move up in rank and a little white lie from his wife convinced Tony to move on from Morgan-McClure and take a management position at SABCO Racing. Tony shares experiences from his years there.After a dismal season in 2011, Tony was released from the team and sought out a position at NASCAR through Mike Helton. In 2013, he became the overseeing technical director of NASCAR’s many touring series, a role he continues to fill today.  DIRTY AIR:·        NASCAR’s big weeked at Bristol ·        NextGen parts failures·        Dirty Mo Fan Experience recap·        Chris Buescher’s big win ASKJR presented by Xfinity:·        Impressions about the 2023 NASCAR Cup schedule·        Downtown Chicago’s worries about upcoming street race·        SAFER barriers at North Wilkesboro·        Brandon Jones to JRM Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

My name is Rod and I like to party. It's Bristol, baby. I'm Rico and I like to party. It's Bristol, baby. Hey, everybody's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dell Jr. Download. This is episode 400. Mike Davis, my co-host, how's it going, buddy?

Going great, going great. Right here in the Bojangles studio. What's so funny? Just the excitement over 400. I love it. I'm excited about it. Yeah, we love it. I mean,

I thought we'd make it this far. Hey, if Joe and Lugano can celebrate 500 starts, by God, we can celebrate 400 podcasts. I think it's a bigger accomplishment than Ligano's 500 stars, frankly. 500 is not that big of a deal. Goodness gracious, the king has 1,100 stars. Now, when you get up there, then you can start bragging about it. No, it's right. First off, let's go into some dirty air.

Let's do it. Dirty air. You got it. Dirty air is brought to you by filter time. There's no better way to deal with dirty air than with a filter subscription service that takes care of the hassle and takes that out of buying air filters for your home. They're delivered right to your door. So every time they show up, you know when to change them.

Go to filtertime.com and subscribe now. But this is our dirty air. So let's go. I actually subscribe and send air filters to myself. Would you believe that? I do believe that, actually. I mean, I want to know what the experience is like. Yeah, yeah.

I wonder if Blake put a coozy in. your box like is starting to throw some coosies in there i was a little ambitious with the hats uh they will not fit in the boxes but coosies will so you might find a coozy in your box when you open up your next shipment um any you know Bristol was a uh great weekend a lot of great racing but no right that's there was uh there was some problems right out of the gate um watching the truck race. The big complaint, I think, about the truck race was that the PJ1 or application of the PJ1 had all the trucks running right on the bottom. They never moved off of the bottom of the racetrack. And they never slowed down. So the trucks ran their fastest laps on, you know, on old

tires late in the race as the track got more and more fast with the tent falling. We saw the same thing happening in Xfinity race where Noah wins the race on 90-some lap tires. We saw the same thing in the cup race. Brad Kislaski was leading the race on 100-lap tires driving away. Nobody could catch him until the right front tire went down. But the tire is too fast. So the tire's too good. The tire's too durable.

Good Year, you know, Good Year needs to make the tire where it wears out, where it slows down. that's it that's pretty much as simple as it gets what they have done is uh i think with you know with the PJ1 and the abrasiveness of the concrete surface there's some concern maybe for them to make sure that the tire is durable um and we know that uh you know they can't take a gamble right they can't take a risk on that and show up with a tire that fails or a tire that wears out uh before before, you know, they get to the end of the fuel run. Basically, if that happens, they're going to have, they're going to get crucified like they were at Indy

when we had all that issues with the tires at Indy years ago. That really set a precedent, or that changed things for good year. When that Indianapolis race happened, there was no grace given. And there was no, you know, there was, if that were to happen again, you know that would probably be even uglier in this day and time the criticism and the public shaming of good deer would be bad

so they can't take a chance on that right we ask them all the time man we need the tires to wear out more we need them to slow down what we when we say tire fall off what we mean is the lap time getting slower and slower throughout a run we would love to have as much fall off as possible You know, you would go to some tracks and see seconds of falloff, like at Old Atlanta or at Darlington. And then you'll go to some tracks and not have any, because either the surface or the tire is just way too durable. So I think, number one, they need to change the tire to make the tire wear out, at least make the left sides of where out.

at least make the left sides wear out something. So the cars slow down, the cars start to handle poorly. They're not all running the same speed from the very beginning of the run to the end because that really, really, really hurts passing. If your car can run the same lap time on lap 1 as it can lap 80, it kills the product. And if we didn't have, you know, unfortunately, like these tire issues that we had in the cup race, they're air pressure related,

camber and castor setting related. That's not a good year problem. It's not a good year problem. That's a crew chief problem. Yep. Those things and the rack issues, that saved the race. Had we not had those problems,

as ugly as they were, as they, you know, they, they, too, are a point of criticism. If those hadn't happened, that would have been a difficult race to sell. And so, you know, if you do fix the racks and we don't have rack opinion issues and the teams come back and understand a little bit better on what settings won't blow the right front tire, then we've got a problem.

Then we got a race where everybody's running the same speed. No one can get around each other because they're all the same. The truck race was probably the most glaring in that fact that they all ran the same speed. They all ran the bottom. They all ran the same line. They all ran the same, you know, there wasn't much going on. The Xfinity cars widened the track out a little bit, as they did in the past there. Around the middle of stage two, the track opened up, and they went to the middle and then the top.

That kind of made that race a little bit more interesting. And, you know, just the inexperience and mistakes that the Xfinity guys will make and tend to make, you know, save those events and make them compelling, right? Yeah. Sam Mayer going through out on the front straightaway. That's a yellow. All those type of things that happen that sort of, you know, put a pause to the action

and bunch to feel back up. That's going to happen in the Xfinity race just due to the drivers that are competing. But in the cup race, they don't make mistakes. And they don't do inexperience, you know, they don't do things on inexperience and ignorance. And so, you know, if we don't have those problems with the tires and the racks, we're going to have a pretty damn boring race.

Hard to follow there, too. If you're just going to go green for a long time. Right. Yeah. But I think that a lot of pressure needs to be put on Good Year to try to really truly understand how they can be a better asset in that situation. They brought a tire that was great. durable, great tire, but it doesn't put on a good race.

Plain and simple. Is that the short track problem this car's having? Do you think that that's contributing largely to it? Well, you know, at Bristol, at Martinsville, the cars are way too fast. There's way too much grip. So the cars can go way too fast through the corner. And a lot of that has to do with the tire and the size of the tire. So we've made the tires bigger.

We put a bigger contact patch on the ground. On all four corners, you've added more rubber to the road. And anytime you put more surface on, you know, tire surface on the racetrack, you're going to have more grip ability to really go faster in any situation, any scenario. And so this is something that can't really be changed. But in my mind, going to a wider, bigger tire was a massive mistake. with every but to you can't go back right can go back now yeah they guess not it's all yeah we've got the you know everybody's paid for the wheels that good year's paid for the engineering and

development there's the brakes and all that stuff that would have to change it's not going back but to go to this sense short sidewall you know typically a road course you know you know emsa style setup for an oval race car was a bad choice in my mind. I would have never, when we went to good year to see the tires being made before they ever were on the racetrack, I thought, why would you want to do this? You know, why would you want to make more, why would you want to put a

better, more tire? We're trying to figure out how to get the guys off throttle, lifting, you know, sliding around, struggling, fighting with these cars, and we're going to make them, give them more tire and better, you know, give them more grip. It just seemed to be a contrast to what really was trying to be achieved in terms of a racing product on the racetrack. So, yes, while the racing has been way better, much more entertaining at a mile and a half. The drivers swear that they can't pass.

But we go to watch races at Kansas, they're passing. You know, I joke about Ligano saying, you know, he'll tell me, man, we can't pass in this car. I'm like, well, your car can't pass. I see other guys' cars that are passing, but your car's not being good enough to pass this year. Well, that's really, I mean. No, I got you. It's the truth.

You know, his cars haven't been what I typically, you know, what we typically have seen from him in terms of performance. Right. But I see other guys passing, you know, driving up through the field and so forth. But the racing is really, that's kind of the challenge, man. The racing has really been pretty good at a mile and a half. Yeah, great. Right.

Oh, yeah. Not good at the speedways, super speedways. Although, you know, NASCAR or the tracks might argue that what they see at Atlanta and so forth is great. The short track stuff, though, is terrifying. How we're going to go back to Martinsville, and it's going to be the same race we saw there earlier this year. I don't know anything that would tell me different. possibly the playoffs situations

and the urgency to finish well maybe you know there's a there's a bigger urgency but at least I'm hoping that's the case at least I'm hoping that contributes to a better race you're right it may not be well nothing tells me that we change anything that would make the race look different

and that worries me selfishly we were making this big push for you know more short tracks more short tracks but you can't make that argument when the product on those race tracks is not good right So I think that, you know, we need to really lean on the good year. I've been an advocate for good year, but I also have been critical of them in the past.

And I've actually had personal service agreements with them. They are our, they are the tire manufacturer for our, for our sport. And so they don't have, you know, we, we have to appreciate them, take care of them to an extent. but at the same time we need to expect them to do things a certain way, right? Hold them responsible to their part of this sport. I mean, yeah, nobody would argue that. I don't think they would. Yeah.

So I think that they could help us in this short, you know, as far as the short track program and making things a little more, a little better as far as the product. The other side of it, obviously, I think, is the car, you know, the down force created underneath the car and all those things. there's a lot of things that I think that the drivers probably have some great opinions on that would help the short track product. But that track, you know, when you, if you go to a short track, if you go to Bristol, going slower through the corner is going to make for a better race, right?

Lifting, sliding, braking a little bit, all those things are going to give drivers opportunities to challenge each other. And I think that adding PJ1, wow. it does make that bottom groove dominant, it makes the track faster. It makes the car have more grip. So you can then, therefore, with more grip, go faster. It works for but against, you know,

in terms of what type of race we're going to see. I could not wait for them to get up off the bottom of the racetrack because I knew that, you know, they would, you know, up in the top groove as the rubber builds up, they kind of slide around up there and there's some, there's some, there's some new options and ways to race and pass. But when they're glued to the bottom and in the glue of the PJ1,

it's frustrating to watch. But I know that they're just trying to recreate the old Bristol. I don't think you're ever going to do that until you put that thing back to, you know, 32, 36 degree banking. That's right. You change the banking in it. And you change the surface. Get rid of the variable winking.

Yep. Yeah. Which was designed to be able to create multiple grooves or multiple. lines and now we're back to a one line situation yeah it's it's funny because there's this sort of there's a disconnect between what a driver feels like is a fun race and what a fan feels like is a great race to watch we would go to atlanta old Atlanta and i loved it we were going to run the bottom the middle the top you're moving all over the place sliding around out of control i mean it really challenged you as a driver but man watching a race was a completely different experience

Fans did not like it. Fans did not come. And now we've reconfigured the track to for the, you know, pretty much save its existence, right? When they remodeled Bristol with the Varyal Banking, I remember a very vivid point in the very first race, first or second race there. Me and Casey Kane and Edwards, Carl Edwards. We're all running first, second, third. All, and you could, you know, to borrow a cliche, you could have thrown a blanket over the top of us.

Literally, we were all three using different lines and nearly three wide for the lead. And I thought this, they have taken Bristol and it is ten times better. I didn't even know if that was possible because it was pretty badass. Yeah. And the more we understood about that track, the more we figured out how to run the top, and that became more and more dominant as guys found how to make their cars really fast up there. And fans disagreed with what they were seeing, right? A driver might enjoy it, but a fan watching didn't like what they were watching, right?

And one of the best, most sought-after tickets in our sport became less than, and just became just another race. Which was the ultimate wake-up call for our sport because if Bristol all of a sudden wasn't sailing out, and I remember that pivotal moment when all of a sudden there were empty seats, that was like, oh, we got a major problem. And I think probably started all of these major changes,

not just at Bristol, but at other racetracks, and then also the car. I mean, like, it was a big wake-up call. Yeah. They had a great crowd this weekend. They did have a great crowd. I think that that crowd enjoyed what they saw. I think they did.

I think that they'll come back. But I don't think that that should, even though those things, even though those boxes were checked in terms of, yes, it was fun. Yes, I would like to see this again. Yes, I'm coming back. I still think that there's a couple things that can be pushed and encouraged to be better so that we continue to have to excel, right, at that venue. It feels like you're saying that there were some things that sort of masks the bigger problem. and that while that's a good thing that we had an entertaining race,

the undercurrent is a problem that's brewing that's not been addressed, and that could have longer-term effects. I don't know about the truck lap time, but I know that the cup car was almost a second faster than Xfinity car. And we used to go there, and sometimes the Xfinity car would be quicker,

or they run pretty much relatively the same speed. That's right. They shouldn't be that big of a discrepancy between the two, but that tells you with that independent rear suspension, the bigger tire, that cup car can fly, right, through the middle of the corner. And I think that that means that's not a good thing. That's not going to make a better short track race, right?

When you're quicker and quicker and quicker through the middle of the corner. You want to slow that thing down. You want to make those guys lift, break, slide. You want to have them white knuckle trying to get a hold of the that racetrack around there, so maybe we needed to figure out ways to, maybe there has to be a different short track package. I mean, they had that frustrating race at Martinsville, and then they went back and tested, right, and they tested and tried to change some things, some variables on the car to try to figure out

if this would improve the race there. But I don't know that they made, I don't know if they moved the needle. Kyle Busch had some engine trouble, and that was fascinating to watch all of the things that led up to him being knocked out of the playoffs. so there were a couple cars that got back on the racetrack, two of them being Toyota's, Ty Gibbs and Bubba Wallace. They get back on the track after some issues with their racks and steering, and as they're making laps, we're all sitting in the booth going,

man, are they really going to make laps and pass him? Like, this is another Toyota, like we were having this conversation right ahead. Sure enough, Bob Wallace and his team felt like that the owner's points and anything that they could gain out of being on the track was worth more than any anything that might happen to Kyle, but the Ty Gibbs car conveniently pulled off the racetrack four laps short of passing him.

There was just some interesting things happening. And then the 22 car of Lagano, you know, is out there on the racetrack and who was it that needed the spots? Cendrick. That's right. So Cendrick needs the passing, right, to be able to get a point.

And, yeah, with a few laps left in the race, all of a sudden, oh, the 22 cars on pit road. There's a problem. Got to dress it. Got to fix it. We were in commercial, I believe, under caution. And he gave two laps up to Cendrick under that caution. And we're sitting there going, well, that was convenient. Like, don't look, you know, let's get, we're in commercial.

Okay, come on down pit road real quick. Yeah. Nobody will know. Yeah. Did y'all bring it up when you came back? No, I mean, I don't know what the, I don't know what the protocol is there, right? So here's the thing. So in my mind, I mean, I think I know what they're doing.

But there's this sort of code that maybe I break from time to time, but there's this code in broadcasting and in journalism, I think, you know, and in media, you don't, you can speculate, but you can. You can speculate, but you can't say something as fact unless you really know it's fact. That's fair, yeah. Right? And so if I really don't know that the 22 car isn't broken, then I can't say, oh, it's broken unless I really, you know. Or do I know if Ty Gibbs really had a problem and had to come down pit road, four-lap short of passing Kyle Busch? I don't. But I can only assume, right?

And so that's as far as you can take it in the booth. You know, I don't really know exactly what the code, what the rule is, and it's really gray and murky. But I know this. Like my, I follow Burton, Steve and Rick, and they will never, them three, will never make a statement unless they know that it is true. So they won't speculate? They will speculate. They will say, hey, this could be this. but they won't say it is unless they know it's true.

And so I sometimes feel like that maybe it's a bit unprofessional, but sometimes I might bend that or break that code because I think I can kind of get away with it or just, you know, or I feel strongly enough in my belief that I'm going to gamble on that, you know, on that notion. But I really don't know, right, in the moment I really am not I'm not down there in the pits looking at this car going yep I see the broken part or nope it's not broken he pulled in because he was told to right so it's interesting because I don't I'm sitting there and I'm watching them I'm waiting on them to see what they do I'm waiting on Rick and them I'm watching them seeing what they're going to say who's going to jump out there and how far they know they don't they don't never they don't never go anywhere unless they know it's fact and I think that's probably for the best for sure.

There's certainly a burden of responsibility that you guys have, whereas in the ultimate sweet experience, there was a guy that yelled out, bullsh-sh-shit. So there's a little bit of that in me happening in the moment, and I have to be careful, right, not to be just completely obvious about it, but because I might be wrong, for one,

but also I don't want to, infuse this sort of loosey-goose unprofessional attitude or vibe into the broadcast our broadcast is should be considered like elite top shelf we do it the bet we do it better than anybody else and and if you got a guy in there going oh man I don't know that's BS you know I don't know if that's we're all even if we're all thinking it I don't know if that's what we really need to have on our broadcast. Now, you can elude, you can speculate, and it's interesting to see... You can point out the coincidence in the matter. Which we did. I feel like we did.

We let... One of the things that LaTartre told me that was interesting is said, man, you, you don't have to be the one to make the statement. You bring up the possibility of it and allow the fan, a person at home to make their own assumption. Which is what happens, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's something I have to try to think about as well. We talked about the tires. We talked about the rack opinion. That, you know, the rack opinion thing

for me, listen, if I'm Harvick and I'm any of those guys, Truex, I'm mad. I'm making T-shirts. I'm doing whatever, right? Truex has got that new cool t-shirt out, which I think I'd love to get one. What's it called? It's like I think it's Kevin Harvick. It's Happy's

What did I say? Truex. I'm sorry. It's Happy's crappy parts for less. Yeah, Happy's happy's crappy ass parts for less. Yeah. So I would love one of those shirts. That's an actual t-shirt. Yeah.

Yeah. He just put it up. Oh yeah. Yeah. We got to get to you. I can respect the game. Yeah. As much as I would be absolutely absolutely furious if I were

if I were them. The thing is, and the reason why they can be furious is because they can, they look at these parts. that they're putting on these cars and they can see 100% Rodney Childers and all these guys can look at something and go, if I could, if I can just, if you give me five minutes, I can fix this thing where it won't break, but they can't touch it. They can't modify it. They can't infuse any kind of improvement that is outside. You know, they buy these parts from a provider and they are not allowed to alter them. even for, you know, to make them safer or stronger, right, or more durable.

But they can look at it and see, oh, man, that's not good. That's a cheap piece. I can fix that easily. And that's the frustration for them, right? I think it's warranted too. Absolutely. But for me, as a viewer or a guest broadcaster, there's a part of me, that wants the, won't, there's a part of me that wants every car that goes to the racetrack

to be pushed to its limit. And obviously this is probably a little extreme and they don't need to be breaking the racks in multiple cars. But I, I always felt like that at some point we made the cars so bulletproof. You never questioned an engine, you never questioned there might, you know, an engine failure was freaking rare. Like to get one or even two a season is really rare. Like we talk about it. Kyle Bush, he had two engine failures.

And man, that's not happened to him in years. Boy, in the 80s, man, you were that in night. Oh, my God, yes. They were breaking all the time. All the time. Yes. Who was it? I think it was Kyle Petty, where he had, like,

when we were talking to him, he had like 12 races and blown 11 motors at some point. something stupid. Yeah, I think when dad raced for Budmore in 1982, 83, I think he had double-digit engine failures. So I don't think we need to get back to there. Good. But remember, man, remember the old saying, oh, $2 part took us out?

Yeah, remember that? That's right. Yeah. Two dollar part. That's right. Cost us a win. Yeah. You don't have that anymore, ever.

and when the last gen car, like the car that we were racing last year, was so durable. It was beyond everything, like the brakes, the engine, all the stuff was built to be well, last well beyond anything it was going to experience on the racetrack, right?

And the next-gen car is in a lot of people's opinion and mine as well, an even tougher car. It's over everything about it says it is unbreakable. Aside from this cheap rack that apparently we have which they'll fix

that. NASCAR will not go back to Bristol and have this happen again. They'll fix it. But part of me wants the car to have that some flaws. Yeah, be fragile. Some vulnerability. Vulnerability.

Absolutely perfect word. I want the drivers to need to nurse it, take care of it. Yeah. The same way I want them to have to do that with tires. That's right. I was just thinking it. We got a car that is eventually, you know, after a few more bugs get worked out of it, will be unbreakable.

And then you've got a tire that don't wear. I mean, that's just not going in the right direction, I guess. I don't know. There's a balance there. But I think the fact that I was sitting there watching a race going, man, these cars might not get to the end. Who's going to break? Who's tire?

Who's rack? You know, who's going to be next? That made me, I would watch that again. Yeah. I was entertained by the unexpected or unknown. It's like we're playing this video game with the damage control off. You know what I'm saying? Like you race it different, right?

You don't have to take care. You don't have to nurture it. You don't have to protect it and get it to the end. You just run that some to the law. And then it's, you know, you can just keep on digging. When dad used to race for Bud Moore, Bud would tell him, like, man, you know, you're breaking our motors. You're running them too hard. Yeah.

So it was this sort of mentality, like, you know, if you run 100% all day, it's going to blow the engine. Could you imagine? telling a driver or a driver having to get in the car going, well, I can't run hard all day, or the mother's going to break, or going to break a valve spring. Just tell Ross Chastain that and watch what happens. We're going to get it to the last 20 laps,

and then we're going to go right. Right. You know. Save it for the end. Save it for the end. What the hell are you talking about? Well, the racing should be, the racing should be brutal enough.

that it really tests the cars as much as the drivers. And there was a glimpse of that in the Bristol race. But it's absolutely something that needs to be addressed. We don't need – that's taking a little too far, I think, when the part was failing so often. Chris Busher wins the race, Christopher Busher. I want Chris Busher to make a Christopher Busher T-shirt. Wouldn't that be cool?

I'm surprised it hadn't already happened. Why are they not on that? That should have happened weeks ago. I thought of a new t-shirt we could make for our Dirty Mo Line. All right. So during the Xfinity race, Justin Allgaier comes over the radio and says, Dirty Air sucks. That's right.

I thought, man, that'd be a good T-shirt. We'll be on it. Dirty Air sucks. Yeah. Because it does. I think every race fan, any form of motorsports can appreciate that. That would be even a good filter time shirt, wouldn't it? It would.

Yeah. Dirty Air. sucks. Yeah. That's good. Hey, man. Marketing machines. That's right.

My wife had a good line the other day that I thought, I don't know if it makes a good t-shirt, but you know what your love language is, Mike? Do I know mine specifically? There's five of them. I'm trying to remember. Well, no, no. When your wife, what's one thing that? One of the things is affection, one of the things is time spent with somebody.

Like, those are the love language. My wife says my love. love language is hugs and beer. That's also a T-shirt. That's a good T-shirt. My love language is hugs and beer. That's good. I like that.

You want to make a happen? Let's just make it happen. Dirty air sucks, and my love language is hugs and beer. Yeah. Hey, speaking to Amy, she got to go on a ride-along this weekend, and that sounded great. We got the video right here. Really? Let's watch it.

Look, Mike. We get loose. off turn too she throws an arm bar at you and that's probably my favorite she's breathing watch my hands you'll know when we get loose whoa yeah

wow she had a little concern you had a little concern you had the saw on it did you I'm done I'm done she's not happy did you almost wreck we just got loose that feels like almost wreck

Yeah, she looked on her face. She's like, okay, I'm dead. She went from having a thrill of her life to not having fun. Her face changes. That is hilarious. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, just, I got down into PJ1 and it's not activated or whatever the hell. The PJ1's not grippy right away, Mike.

The cars have to run in it for a little bit and it sort of heats up and then it gets grippy. So it's really, it's hard like a plastic. and then the more they run on it, it softens and goose. Okay. I got you. So it wasn't grippy. No. And so I drove, I was running the top during, everybody wanted to run against the wall.

So I'm running a high line around Bristol, right? And that time I came down off the center of the corner, came down to the, off the exit, and the left side's gotten that PJ1, and it goes, just turned sideways, and we slid out to the wall right at the flagstand. We kind of just stood in a dirt track off the corner. I'm glad you saved it. I really am. And save me not even be the right word because you don't think you almost wrecked. I'm going to tell you something.

Let's just think for a second. Had you hit the wall with your wife in the car, are we even remotely aware of the attention that would have got in terms of, I mean, that would have been news. Yeah, I guess. That would have been big news. Yeah. If you'd have wrecked with your wife in the car.

Oh, that would be interesting. Oh, my God. We'd have to brought her in here to tell her side of it. Listen, I'm kind of curious about what her, feedback was after that like when she got out of the car does anybody know was she like get me out of this thing he's a maniac i forget what she said but she said something that maybe all laughed at we were like oh my god but Alex got a ride in a couple laps yeah i was right after her i want yeah did you think about not doing it because he didn't know i didn't know i didn't know we got there was a big

bug splitter right on the windshield and i'm like oh that's i hope that's a bug splatter i hope that's not someone before me that threw up in there but yeah so what did you think it was i couldn't even like begin to describe it because I've never experienced something like that before but first I didn't know what to do with my hands I was like do I just hold them to me or like what but uh when we were going around like you try to like take it in because it's I know it's like three laps five laps so it's bristol but like my mouth was open the whole time I was like but I wasn't breathing I was like holding my breath and I was like I could not do this for 500 laps after five laps so I was like I'm going to throw up after this but it was awesome I couldn't it was amazing the G forces that you feel when you

really go plant into that turn. Yeah. And the grip. And it does something to your body, doesn't it? It does. Yeah. Like, you're trying to, like, you kind of do that thing, like, on a roller coaster where you try to move your head a little bit, but you can't.

Like, it's just, like, pinned down. And then, like, how fast you go down the straightaway, then all of a sudden you just jolt on the brake and then you're back on. And I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. And you're just stuck there. I'm like, it was wild. And there's nothing scarier than being in the passenger seat of a race car. Like, I've given ride-alongs and been in a ride-along before.

and being on that outside closest to the retaining wall, like, I don't care who you are. That is scary. There were a few moments where I was like, we're hitting the wall at a turn two. Like, I'm next, I'm right there. I'm like, we're in the wall right now. But no, had it good.

Does you love hearing people's reaction with the person they've done that? Like that would be awesome to be able to provide them. So that was cool. I'm glad you did that. Yeah, thank you, yeah. That was awesome. That's one of the funnest things that we do

is really, you know, giving somebody a bit, I mean, that is, that is as close as I can get them to, you know, understanding what it must be like, because the, you know, when you're watching a race happen, you're like, why didn't you do that? Oh, yeah. Or what a dumb move that was. No, no talent, SOB, can't drive. Yeah.

And you put somebody in there just for even three laps and they go, oh, no way, okay. Now, I can't imagine 500 of these. plus the 40 cars on the track, and they don't, they go from thinking, man, half these guys are hacks to, man, these guys are all crazy, and they're really, you know, they're all really good,

you know, at what they do to have to be able to go out there and perform. I'll give you a specific example of that. You remember there was a string of races at Bristol where you were having problems on pit road. Like you might either speed or miss, you know, there was something that would have penalized. Usually there was a speeding on pit road, thing. And in my head, I might kind of make a few jokes possibly. I never called you a hack.

Yeah. You know, when you gave me that right experience at Bristol and we went three, five laps, whatever it was, I became so disoriented. I didn't know what was the front stretch or the back stretch. And that was just in a just a few laps. It changed my entire perspective. And I felt like I needed to apologize to you. My legs were shaking the whole time after that. Right. It's like you get out of the car. Yeah, when you get out of the car, it's almost like, yeah, I need a few moments to kind of collect myself, right? And that was just a handful of lap. So that is, it changes your whole perspective, which I think is why you do that. Like you like, you know, when we can kind of relate to those situations. So you mentioned Dirty Mo Media had another sweet

experience. How'd that go? It was amazing. We had a bachelor party going on. Those guys were a trip. We had a wedding proposal that I did not see coming at all because who could have. And it was funny because after the bachelor, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, found out there was a bachelor party. And I said, anybody else wants to get married in here? You know, this is the time to do it. And I was joking. I'm not saying this is why the proposal happened.

The guy had it planned. But 10 minutes later, he's on his knee asking his, you know, girlfriend, fiancee to marry him. And it's, I was like, dude, I was totally kidding about that whole thing. But, you know, he was, that was amazing. There was just a lot of good people. There was a lot of return customers. And I think that at the end of the night, they were, they were, they experienced a good

race, Dale, you talked about it. It may have been for the wrong reasons, but there was a lot of drama that was built up for whatever, you know, different scenarios, leaders blowing tires, wrecking out, whatever it is. And then at the end of the day, man, I think a lot of memories were made, and we're going to go try to do them again next year, these ultimate sweet experiences. You know what kind of tracks you're going to do, Matt? I was actually going to ask you if you've had any ideas. I mean, listen, they got to have, they got to meet some criteria. One is they've got to, I'd like to do one in different regions so that, you know, various people can have opportunities to join us. So that means West Coast, middle of the country, and East Coast.

I think that, you know, the quality of the race matters. And I also think they need to have a good suite. And we know some that don't. So I don't know. I mean, we did put out a poll. And I think a lot of fans, I mean, like, for instance, you know what got a lot of votes for next year? Wilkesboro. Well, Wilkesboro don't have any suites, do they?

Yeah. Yeah. They do? that are not condemned right now. Well, then comes the process of getting credentials to. You remember that there was things. Was that a condescending remark? No, it was a fact.

There were, there were, only the press box was not. That sounded condescending. Hey, Morgan Overstreet just chimed in and she's got a great idea. Why don't you just rent a motor coach? Mike. Can your sweet experience happen in a coach? It could, yeah. It's not a bad idea.

Like a hospitality setting. Why Morgan gets paid the big bucks. That's actually a good idea. Let's do a, maybe we do Wilkesboro. We do a motor coach and it's just a handful of people. What about a Sonoma one? We can take our dirty moat people on a wine tour. Sonoma.

I don't know. What do you think? And I'll buy a ticket for that. Is that a good one? Is a sweet at a road course even, does it feel ultimate? Does it? Yeah. It does?

I would imagine. If you're drinking, you don't care. No, no. I know what a sweet experience is. at Sonoma feels like. I went to some hospitalities at that racetrack. Yeah, they have the really cool ones that aren't actually sweets, but they're like the nice tent setups that are up on the hill,

when you go up into one, up underneath the overpass or whatever. They've got all those really nice, like sweet platforms where they set it up. It's usually nice weather. Sonoma, that's an idea then. So North Westboro is going to have their suites repaired and back. Oh, see, I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay.

So they were condemned. I didn't mean condemned. Conding was the wrong word. Right, right. They were removed. They were just off limits. They were removed. Well, there were some that were there that they were, could not have people.

All right. But they still were there. But you're right. They did remove some as well. Yeah, and they're going to put them back. Okay. But that might be enough, big enough for you. You know what I'd like to do?

You need a certain amount of people to make this thing Bible. I don't. It could be 10 people for all I care. I mean, as long as it's a memorable experience and that we, you know, that the people leave fulfilled. That is really all I care about. I'm not looking for numbers in terms of that. I mean, different experiences are going to require. Look, we're going to do a motor home and it's not like we're going to go do 60 people in it. I don't know. I sort of want to go to more than just NASCAR races. Like I wouldn't mind doing the Indy 500 next year. That'd be cool. You think it would?

I'd think it'd really cool, yeah. Hannah, do you endorse that? The $8,500? Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Anyone that hasn't been, just a ticket is worth the price of admission, let alone doing a sweet experience. Like the Indy 500 is an unmatched event. Maybe we should have a conversation with Douglas Bowles. Should. Doug's a bomb. Yeah.

All right. What color would you say my beard is? Well, that's a transition that I didn't see coming. Besides gray. It's gray on the sides. It's sort of... I would do dirty blonde maybe. Yeah.

It looks like the Bojangles seasoned fries. What was the question? What color is his beard? So I always... Dylan has... a red beard, right? My fiance, and now everyone's always like, oh, it's starting to salt and pepper. And I'm like, no, it's starting to salt and paprika. You know, now that he says it, I honestly don't, like, it has different colors at different

places. Well, I have this avatar that I've been using for all my social media handles. Yeah. And everybody says it looks like Truex because there's not enough gray in the beard. And so he's, Ryan's adding some gray, but now I'm like, well, maybe I need to make the beard not black because I don't have a black. Turn it around again. Let's see this. I'll help you out here. He's added some gray.

That's not the same color. He's added gray, but black would be the wrong colored base for your beard. Right. That's what I'm asking you to do. Yeah. It's go brown, right? Yeah. Something like that.

Man, I'm really excited about this guest for today's show. Tony Glover is well liked in the garage, well respected. Has had a lot of success and has a lot of history, and we're going to learn all about that. And thankful for Ally helping us bring our guest segment to you. you every single week. Ally's been a great partner for us here and they're doing some great things in the industry. Ally does it right and especially with this guest segment. Let's get started, Mike. Let's do it, man. Hey, what's up? How you doing, man? I hope these headphones makes it louder. Yeah. I'm not going to say I don't hear very well. I'm going to say I don't hear

it all. You would be no different than all the rest of the folks that have been in the sport. We all lose our hearing eventually, right? I mean, that's what happens. Yes. Well, we all have selective hearing to begin with. So then the rest of it drops. So Tony Glover, man, how you doing? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I can't tell you how big of an honor it is to be on here. Oh, shoot, man, you're crazy. We're glad to have you, man. It's cool to be able to sit down and spend some time with you this morning. Tell me what you're up to these days. Well, actually, I work for NASCAR. I'm a technical director for all the touring series, which includes Arca Menard series, Arka Eastern West, the Wheeler Modified Tour, the Pentees Tour, the Pentee series in Canada.

So you're busy. Yeah. Yeah. I do about four or 45 a year. Wow. And how do you enjoy doing that? I mean, after you've been in racing your whole life, traveling, running and running, you'd think that at some point you'd want to get off the road.

No, I love it, man. It's, you know, I can't think of how the world will be the day. I don't go to the racetrack. So I don't look at it as having to go. I look at it as getting to go. Getting to go. I love that. I have kind of been interested to talk to you a little bit about how you got you start.

The Glover last name has some history to it, even beyond your own career as a crew chief and all the things you've done. So tell us about how you got your start and racing. What was the thing that introduced you? to stock cars? Well, actually, I went to my first race at three weeks old. My mom and dad said anyway. What do you remember about that? I don't remember.

I don't remember nothing about that, but I can tell you, the first thing I ever remember about racing, we were at a track in, I think, Cleveland, Tennessee, and I was about, I think, about five or six years old, and I remember me. It was just me, my mom and my dad went, and I kind of was a little bit scared, nervous, and my dad said, oh, don't worry, I won't race. And actually, I laid down and took a nap, and when I woke up, he was flipping out of the racetrack. Oh, my gosh.

Now, wait, Cleveland, Tennessee, dirt track? Yeah, yeah, I used to go to that track. Right outside of Chattanooga. Yeah, right outside of Chattanooga. That's right. Yep, I used to go there. Where your dad raced? Did anybody else in your family?

Nope, just my dad. Why did he start racing? My dad, he just loved it. He had probably the biggest burning desire to race of anybody I know. I mean, he absolutely loved it. Yeah. And so you grew up in a, you know, you grew up in a household with trophies and cars

and there was something always going on in racing, and that's you just, that's how you got introduced to it. Yeah. And my dad was my hero when I was young, and he was winning a lot of races, and I got, you know, go to the track and sit in the stands with my mother and, you know, watch all that. And then when, you know, when I got old enough to be able to go into pits, like at 13, I started doing that and, you know, like I say, my dad was my hero. Who put you to work?

Yeah, actually he did. Yeah, I started when I was 13 years old. Yeah. What was your responsibilities? Well, my first responsibility was cleaning a shop and then cleaning parts. And then finally I got promoted up to the nut and bolt man. I got to put a wrench on all the boats to make sure they were tied. Yeah.

And so his car was number 71? Yeah. Talk about his success. Talk about what he accomplished. Well, he won a bunch of dirt modified races. Dirt modified. Yeah. Dirt modifies with wings.

And at home, they called them supermodifieds. And then they had some cars they called skeeders, which was like the most powerful. It was like a sprint car, but it had nobody on it, just a wing and like a go-cart, basically. Wow. Good hands. And he drove that for a while. And he had a really good career. And then about the time I got started, he got started, he got to.

to run in late models and he had always drove for other people and then when when he started running late models after his second or third year I think when like I say when I got 13 he kind of started his own team and I was with him until he retired and so he retired win in 19 he run one race in 1982 basically why did he retire because we were winning races and just two years off a championship and it could barely make a living it was a We didn't have no sponsor. But he said he had this burning desire. Yeah.

How did he hang it up? He just got to the point where he couldn't do it anymore. He couldn't even, he, wasn't interesting to him to drop down a notch and go back to weekly racing somewhere. Really the week, that was a really pivotal time in late models because. It was moving to a national series. Yeah, because the late models become the Xfinity series. The Bush series at the time.

And everything was switching. and he said, you know, he said, we got three cars, we got all this equipment. And I was trying to drive, wanting to drive, and I got to drive one race. And he said, take all this stuff. And he said, go learn, you know, go race. That's what you got to do. But we're winning races, and we can't hardly make a living. So I don't think you're going to learn to drive, you know.

So when did you run your very first race? Well, I only run my first one and my last one the same day. Where was that at? That was Kingsport Speedway. With his car. Yeah. How'd that go? It went good for him.

He won the race. And I run about 90 laps and broke a gear. Oh, okay. And it didn't matter because about five more was all I was going to be able to make it anyway because I was here and my head was over there. War your head out. Yeah. What number did you run?

I run 71. 71. He was in the race as well? Yeah. Okay. There were 271. 271. So are you, you know, with this change,

in his life. Is this like, are you, I mean, imagine you're, like, sad about this, right? Oh, my God. I mean, I'm like heartbroken. And, you know, he retired. And at that point in time, I'd started, I'd built his last couple of cars from scratch. And so I'd started a little car building deal. I was actually, yeah, late models.

I was getting the frames and the stuff from Mike Loughlin and putting them together in my shop. up and a few of them actually turnkeyed build them you don't set them up and took them to the track for anybody we'd know um probably not no nobody that ever made it famous and and um that didn't last last last couple of years my dad raced and during his championship season every time we'd be in conjunction with cup yeah he richard petty would come by and talk to him and uh i always just kept working on the car and richard jokingly one day told my dad he said when you quit he said I'm going to hire that boy and a year after my dad retired

Richard called me and I went to level cross and went to work okay so um do you remember when Dale Jarrett ran in the back of your dad's car at Charlotte yeah we talked about that on the show remember when Dale Jarrett broke his ankle yeah do you remember that oh yeah that was a hell of a hit oh my god destroyed them cars destroyed both of them couldn't believe it and that and that was really the start of us going down because that speedway car was what he called our money car. You know, every time we race to speedways, we could get a lot more money, and we could get scuffed tires from people and didn't have a lot of expense.

So that was really our bread and butter as far as making money like three or four times a year. So that hurt. Yeah. That was a, did he get injured in that crash? No. No. But the funny thing about that, and you'll get a kick out of this, Robert G., we got that car from Laughlin to frame and roll cage. and Robert G assembled at Turnkey.

Really? Yes, sir. Yeah, that's my granddaddy. Yeah. How did that happen? Like, had you guys been doing business with them? No, we actually had went to Charlotte, I think in 74, and we had a new car, and the water pump failed, and it cut the radiator hose into. Basically, we had to have some more to try to fix it, and somebody come by and said, Robert G can fix that thing.

And we got a hold of Robert G., and we drug it over to his shop, and me and him stayed up all night long and fixed it, and we went back and raced. And we become friends after that. And at the start of 79 or at the middle of 78, we got a sponsor. And they wanted to get a new speedway car. Who was a sponsor? Well, it was Bob Jones. It was Machine Tool Corporation. And that's when the mining industry was like knocking it out of the park.

And then by, I don't know, by two months into 79, that all took a crap. And basically he had to quit sponsoring us. But no, anyway, Robert G. built that car, and it was a really, really nice car. So you get hired by Richard Petty. Yeah. You, do you, I mean, had you ever been over there to their shop? Never been there. So I know you knew him and you're at the racetrack and all that.

Was it really as intimidating as it might seem to be going over there to work? Not really. I think at that point in time in my life, I think I was too naive to even be intimidated. I didn't, I mean, I didn't, wasn't intimidate really by very much of nothing. So what year was this? That would have been at the end. That would have been December, I think I started December of 82. And I actually went to be a tire changer for Richard.

And during the winter, I worked in a fab shop building a car with Kyle, and me and Kyle become good friends. And by the time the season started, I was on Kyle's team. Okay. And Kyle's just getting going. Yeah. Well, you said 92, right? 82.

82. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. 82. So, yeah. Kyle had run, I think he'd run one year. One year.

Right. Which was astonishing to hear Kyle talk about it because he, you know, his very first race was in the Archer Cart, Daytona, like 80 or something. Yeah. And, but his first cup year, I guess he might have ran, I mess, maybe that was 78 or 79, but he ran, he ran that old mercury that Richard quit messing with. And then he ran the Buick. Yeah. And he kind of got going. Like in 81, he kind of, he told me about.

almost won Dover. Yeah, he runs second at Dover, I think, and he drove Haas Ellington's car a little bit. Yeah. To have had no driving experience before that. Like, he's out in the cups. The funny thing about Richard is, is like, he's like, you ain't going to mess around. No. Don't mess around him late models and running short tracks.

Get on in this cup car. Richard didn't want him to learn no bad habits. This is what you're going to be racing. Get in it and go. That's what I did. That's the way you're going to do it. That's wild. Had you ever left Kingsport up until this point?

I mean, to live away. No one would ever say Little Warren and Cup racing right out of the gate today, right? No. I don't even think you'd be allowed to. Yeah, you couldn't go through the approval process. That's right. But that's what Kyle Petty did. Yeah.

You know, I know even when at Ganassi, when we brought Montoya in, you know, he had to go through the same approval process that everybody else did, even though he was an ND-500 winner and a Formula One winner. Yeah. So you're on Kyle's car. Kyle's a character I've gotten to know him much much better since we started working together on the broadcast but he's

I can't I'm trying I can't imagine what he must have been like back then when he was young what was it he was really a cool guy to be around you know and actually in 83 unless Patty went me and Kyle a room together

we were roommates for the whole entire season I got you so we become really really close and I think a lot of not only Kyle the whole petty family and and I'm gonna be honest with you I spent one year in level cross and I tell everybody that's my that's my college education I got a four-year degree in one year and level cross yeah so outside of working with Kyle like being around Dale Inman and guys like that was how how what kind of impression did they leave on you well they left they left a big one actually Actually, Dale wasn't there when I was there.

He had left, but he wasn't there in person, but there was a lot of Dale still there. A lot of Dale's ways and a lot of everything else. And Robin Pemberton worked there then. Had Steve Mill left? Steve Mill had left. He had left like a year or two before that. And Mike Beam was over, Mike Beam was over Kyle's car. He was the crew chief, and I worked on that team.

and Mike left a pretty lasting impression on me. I think he helped, and I don't even think he knows this, but he helped me want to be a better person and kind of want to be like him. Yeah. So you only hung around there for a year? Mm-hmm. Then what happened?

Well, at the end of the year, at the end of the year, Richard was leaving to go drive for Mike Kerb. So I think we had 40-some-odd people at the time. Most of them were married, and we're going to cut back to one team. And Kyle talked to me about it, and actually he said, you know, there's a possibility you might get to be Richard's crew chief when he moves. It's down to like three people, and you might get to be one of them. And actually, Buddy Parrott wound up and got it. But anyway, my grandmother that had raised me from the time I was 13 had gotten really sick at the end of 82.

And I kind of thought, you know what? I need to go back and spend a little bit of time with her. And about that time Morgan McClure was getting started. And they had run a couple of races with Mark Martin. And actually I interviewed with Junior Johnson and talked to him about working for him. And then I interviewed with G.C. Spencer about going to work for Morgan McClure. And I thought, I told him, I said, you know what? I'm going to do this for one year.

I did everything for one year back then. And I said, I'm going to go do this deal for one year at Morgan's. at Morgan McClure. G.C. Spentcher was running the deal? He was actually the crew chief when I went to work there. He was an old driver. Yep. And didn't he have his own team?

He had his own team, and Larry McClure was sponsoring GC. And Larry McClure, being the smart guy that he is, he said, you know what? Instead of the sponsoring, my might as well own it. Right. So he bought GC out and hired G.C. to come work for you. Okay. That's interesting. Wow. So that's, is that the start of Morgan McClure then? It was when he bought G.

G.C. Spencer's team? That's it? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. How about that? And so what was your role at Morgan's? I started at Morgan McClure as first of all I was going to get to be over to pit crew and I was going to get to call the race and G.C. Spencer was the crew chief. And we run a few races and G.C. didn't, we run a few races with Lenny Pond and then we got Tom Yells and we were working like crazy and G.C. got aggravated one time and he's

He said, you can have it. I'm done. And so he quit for a while, and then he come, and they made me crew chief. And then he come back a year or so later, but I was still the crew chief. What do you do when he quit? Where'd he go? No word. And then he came back?

Yeah. Like he could just come on back? Yeah. Why was he done? Why did he say he was done? What was going on? That's so weird. I don't know.

He just got mad and just got mad one day and decided to quit. What would make him mad? Because we were at, we were at Nashville Speed. way and you remember at Nashville how you had to push the car here and push it there and we were pushing it down and going across the scales and the rear end was popping and we decided to

go back and change the gear and we were like just barely got on the line and he said we get back you can have it I'm done I'm not racing like this you know I can't I can't be pushed like this so so he quit and any like I say he come back and he didn't he stayed

another year or so after that so what kind of driver was Lenny Pond you know I race against him? Yeah, Lenny. I raced Lenny at a, sorry, I raced Lenny at East Carolina or Speedway in a late-mile stock car in 1994. Yeah, Lenny. It's like his last race he ran.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't, Larry McClure from the very beginning was a very competitive person. And he wanted a, he wanted a driver that he thought was driving the wheels off of it. Yeah. Well, why do you let Mark go? I don't, you might have to ask him.

I think G.C. talked him into that, and this is a funny story. You know how Mark, he's like wired for sound. Oh, yeah. And they run him at Darlington the year before I went there with no water and didn't give him a single drink of water all day long. And G.C. said Mark was out of shape and he fell out of the seat. And he said he was scared because when you went by for qualifying, his knees would be knocking.

Well, anybody that knows Mark, I mean, he's sitting in there wound for sound and ready to go. G.C. is something else. Yeah, they let him go. and they got Lenny Pond. He had a sponsor. He brought a Jim Testa with him. And Larry was not a very patient man when it come to drivers. He had some for a long time, and he had some for a very short time.

And so anyway, he got him, or when he got rid of Lenny, we got Tommy Ellis. And I kind of knew him. He was like a fireball that my dad had raced against. And he kind of fit Larry's style. Yeah. How come you don't think Tommy made it in the Cup? I don't think we were quite good enough then at the time and quite ready. You know, we're building the team and we're trying to learn.

And Larry's trying to let me learn. Yeah. And just had a few conflicts of interest. But I think Tommy really could have made it in Cup if he could stuck with it. He was talented. He ain't kidding. Was he, you know, he has had a reputation as a fireball and a hot head or short-temper kind of guy. Was he impatient with some of the program,

or was he pretty understanding about where y'all were? He understood what we were, and he understood where he was, but he was a very competitive person, and he wanted to win and run up front. And actually, we had a couple of pretty good runs with him, just didn't get the finish we needed. But then his days were done at Morgan McClure. Who came next?

Rutman. Rutman. So Rutman was an interesting, I always felt like that he would get, he could take a car and get more out of it. There's not a lot of guys that could do that. There's a good race car drivers, I think like myself or a lot of guys, if your car can run fifth, I'll run fifth. But there was a couple guys that could take that fifth place car and run third or run second.

And I think Rutman was one of those. But he had this weird personality. I'll tell you one thing that changed the way I think about Rutman. and we were at, I might have told this story before, but we were at Pocono and it rained and they pulled the cars down pit road and the cars is all lined up out there. That's probably 1994. You know, dad's a four, five, six-time champion. He's, you know, he demands a level of respect.

They told me to go out there and pull the cover off the car. So I got a suit on. I'm like 15, 16 years old, right? And I'm doing whatever they'll tell me to do. I'm not wanting them to tell me to do stuff, right? I remember them days. Yeah, and so I run out there, and I'm getting a cover off the car, and Rutman comes walking out on pit road and walking by the car,

and I don't know if he knew who I was, but he looks at the side of Daddy's car, and it's got some donuts on it. And he looks at it and looks at it and goes, that guy right there looks like he ran into everybody out there, and it said something like that. And I was like, what a shtole. But anytime I hear of Rutman, that's what I think about. Yeah.

But Joe Rubbin wasn't a asshole, though. I don't know, was he? Was he a asshole? I don't like to call people that. Joe was, Joe didn't have the personality of a lot of people that I dealt with in my life. I mean, he was different. Yeah. But he was a good race car driver.

Very good. Yeah. You know, his dad was, his family had incredible racing history and success. He gets in that two car after dad. after dad left in 81 and almost won Richmond. Remember he spun down to front straight away? He got flats or something. I think that was the race that Marcus won.

And that was the caution that brought out the yellow. So, I mean, he was a good driver. He had it won. Had it won. Right. So he's driving y'all's car. Y'all had some pretty good runs with Rutman. Yeah.

Yeah. And what happened? Well, again, I guess a conflict of interest. And he had been offered to Bernstein ride for the following year. Ah, really? Yeah. And he thought that was a way better equipment than what we had, and he chose to take that.

And that wasn't the prettiest ending of anything in my career. Him and Larry kind of butted heads at the end, and there were some hurt feelings and, you know, some remarks made back and forth that really weren't the best. Yeah. Then Rick Wilson comes in. Rick, Rick comes into the car, and that's when y'all kind of started running up front. Yeah, that's when we got, Rick came in, and he brought an Osmobile deal with him.

Okay. So we got factory support and way more equipment and way better stuff than we had had. When did y'all get, who's building the motors? At that point in time, different people. We were getting them from prototype. We were getting off of a Mike Friar. We got a motor from Petty. Earlier before that, we got a lot of motors from Junior.

When Tommy drove for us, we had Hoins and Eans and Richmond build them. We just had a lot of different people building them. And then I guess, I don't know if it was 88 or 89, probably 89, Larry hired Jack Russell, who had worked for Fort, and he was building motors for Buddy Baker. And so he started our first engine program. and then very shortly after that Larry hired Rump Pittman. Yeah, that name is one we're going to talk about a little bit here.

So Rick, when Rick comes onto the scene with his own car, he qualifies in the top 10, you know, shows some real good speed. They go to Taldega and other racetracks, and he would haul us, and it was a family car. And so there was this, he was a prospect, and right around the time he joined y'all's team. Yeah. This is like his first real break. And he had some, you know, almost could or shoulda kind of runs where, you know, y'all had a couple second place finishes and so forth.

But what kind of race car driver was Rick. Rick was – Rick fit more like what Larry was like – what Larry liked. He was a hard charger. You know, we led some races. You know, I remember at Charlotte one time in the World 600, we had almost a lap lead with 40 to go and blew a right front tire. That was the year when it was a big tire debacle, and everybody in the field ran Hoosiers, but Marcus was the only guy on Good Year's.

And we actually had that race won and blew a tire and knocked the wall down. And we should have won the Firecracker two years in a row. We were running second and blew a right front tire out with like three to go and hit the wall and was going to win that. And then I think the next year we run second to Beal. and about like that. And we had a faster car than him. We just probably waited a little bit too late to make the move.

But Rick was really a good hard charger, and our team was getting better. We were getting our pit crew better and getting ready to, you know, I think to go to the next level. And again, he got another offer and he thought it was a better offer and decided to move. He had a great experience. Yeah, a great experience. And they, you know, they wanted to race together. And Rick actually at that point in time When he went to drive for Raymock,

they offered me a lot of money to come and do that deal. With him. Go with him. Yeah, and Rick really wanted me to go with him. But at that point in time, I was not ready to leave the team that I loved. And so I decided to stick around. And I'm glad I stuck around a few more years. Well, let me ask you about that.

Because earlier you said that you planned to only go there a year and you only went anywhere for a year. And I was curious why that is. And then what changed with Larry? What changed it was in 84. was I met Christy and actually at Michigan. She was from my hometown and she was at a race with her uncle, Scott, who later started to help me.

And anyway, I met her and it was like game on from day one. And we wound up, married in 85 and had two beautiful children after that. And I didn't want to move her and I didn't want to move my girls. I didn't want to leave my dad. you know, I had a lot of reasons that kept me at Morgan McClure for a long time. Plus, I love Morgan McClure. I love that team. Yeah.

Rick goes to Raymont. Yep. And then who's the next guy y'all hired? The next guy would get is Phil Parsons. And so this was, we've had Phil on the show. Yeah. Phil will tell you that, you know, he was excited about that opportunity, but he had some surgery, cataract.

That's right. That's right. And that there was, you know, that sent. rumors throughout the garage that he had some eyesight issues and so he and he was he only lasted handful of races three races which he would he would eventually and he had just come out of the 55 card won his first race at taledega he talked about how he had pretty good pretty good seasons there and so this is like a big step for him what do you remember about that whole time and that experience that brief time that Phil was there. I remember we had just come from having Rick

Wilson. I mean a hard charge and gas guy that all the guys on the team loved, you know, fit in well with the team. And we got Phil and Phil was a little bit, I guess maybe more laid back a little bit. And we went to Daytona and I was excited about working for Phil really to be quite honest with you. We went to Daytona and I think we run third or 4th and the 125, and we could not get our car driving good. We could not get it tight enough. And we had always, with Rick, thought we had good handling cars at Daytona. That was kind of one thing that made us run good. We had our cars driving good. And we just could not get it tight enough. And in the race, we wound up and got in a wreck that really wasn't a field's fault.

We go to Richmond, and we wrecked in practice, a brand new car, and we wrecked in a race a brand new car and we went to Rock and Amman didn't run very good like I said Larry was not a very patient man when it come to drivers and he called me in the office and said don't go home after work today Phil's coming up and we're going to talk and he said when he gets here I'm going to make a change wow did he know that he was going to hire Ernie he didn't so did you have a sense of any of this stuff going on no I just know I know him and runt would ride back and forth to the race together and I know they talked about coming home from Richmond, how bad we run, and then went to Rockingham, or we wrecked two cars, and went to Rockingham, and I think we finished like 14th, but, you know,

not where we wanted to be. And I think Larry just decided that, you know, he wasn't going to spend a lot of time on that path. He was ready to make a move. And I hated it because I really was looking forward to working with Phil, and I think we would have got to where we wanted to go. Yeah. But I guess everything happens for a reason.

And then when he hired, when he let Phil go, I said, and we had talked about, I wanted to get Ernie when Rick left. That was my pick. And we couldn't make that happen with sponsors and everything else. So we wound up with Phil. And again, I think that would have worked if we could have stayed the course. But we got Ernie and we decided to take him to Atlanta for a test. And we took him down there and they had been, they'd already been testing for like two days. And the morning we got there was raining, and they finally got to track dry enough that we could go out.

And when he did, he was about a half-second quicker than anybody had run the previous two days. And then it started raining again. And I said, man, bring that thing on in here. And I'm like tickled to death. And Larry said, all right, the ride's yours. And so we go back to Atlanta and we run third. We have to start by points, and we had to start. It rained out qualifying.

We had to start, I don't know, 30-fifth or something, and the whole race went green almost the whole way, and we wound up and run third. And I'm like, this cat can drive. You had your wheelman at that point. Did you? Do you remember the race or do you remember anything that stood out about Ernie before he came to drive for y'all?

They're a race. Yeah, actually, during Hugo, he drove, that year he was driving D.K.'s car and it probably it probably wasn't you know the best car or the best funded car on the race track i'll say and i think the week before he had run like fifth at wilksboro and then he got in it during hugo i remember i remember ernie telling me the story that he had changed right rear spring in the car and put a stiffer right rear in it and the crew chief wasn't their own count of hugo and then when bob johnson got there the next day and found out i think he found out during the race that he had changed the right rear spring i mean he bowed

blew a gasket, but they wound up and run fifth. And so both those two races, I'm like, wow, if this guy gets a shot, he can do something. And later on in New Year at Richmond, we wound up at the same hotel and was standing outside Saturday afternoon. And he said, you want a beer? And I'm like, yeah, we'll have a beer. And we, I don't know, we sat there and talk for like 30 minutes. And I'm like, this is who I want to drive our race car.

This guy's, this is my kind of guy. Yeah. He was wild. and rough, but had kind of a no fear attitude. You're talking about a guy on the gas. Yes, sir. He was on it. If you wanted your car dynoed, all you had to do was bolt him in it.

And you knew how fast it was going to go. That was it. There wasn't nobody in the garage area going to get in and go no faster. I don't remember that run at North Woodsboro, but I remember at Bristol, they left him out on tires. and who led the field. I forgot about that and blew a tire. Blue a little right front.

And I was like, damn. Because, I mean, that car run 30th on, you know, 25th, 30th on a good week. And he was out there. And they, that car never ran the same again, you know, without him in it. But that was a eye-opener right there when he took D.K.'s car and ran so good. So he gets in the car and right out of the gate, y'all are where you want to be. things are going well.

He ran the Oldsmobile the rest of the year, right? We run the Oldsmobile until, I'm going to say, after Michigan, the second Michigan, Chevrolet wanted earning, and so they hired us to help win the manufacturer championship that year. So we switched cars like right before Bristol, and we won the race at Bristol in the Chevrolet, and that was enough cushioned. It wound up being enough cushion at the end of the year that if they hadn't had done that, If we'd have still been Osmobile, they wouldn't have won the Manufactured Championship. That's interesting.

So Ernie also, as good as he was, he had some flaws and had to clean it up a little bit. You know, the couple wrecks at Daytona and Talladega and the meeting, the driver's meeting where he gets up in front of everybody. I mean, I know you guys had his back the whole time. But what was it kind of like watching him go through that process and change as a driver? Well, it was interesting, and not only that, but he had some personal things going on at the time. So we had a lot of, we had a lot of different stuff going on, but from day one, I mean, I truly believed 100% in Ernie. And I think he believed in, you know, in our team at the time. And we had, we didn't win as many races as we should have.

We, you know, we crashed some. We had a shot at winning. We blew up some. when we had a shot at winning, and we didn't do the job on pit road sometimes. So, you know, we could have won a lot more races with Ernie. And I kind of wish we, you know, I kind of feel bad about that. I feel like we left some stuff on the table. So when does Ernie come tell y'all that he's going to take a new ride?

Well, actually, what had happened was me and Steve Mill were kidding each other one day at, I think, at Michigan. And I'd went up with Steve and told Ernie that I was leaving, and we made a joke out of it. And me and Ernie had made a deal that we were going to be together. We won a championship. I mean, we're going to stick around until we win a championship together. And so anyway, me and Steve Meele done that and played a, you know, playing a trick with Ernie. And Davy and Ernie had got into it. Davy had wrecked us at Michigan.

And then we went to, after that, we went to Indy to do that first tire test. test at Indy and we about we almost got in a fight at Indy to be honest with you what do you mean what happened why were they about to fight well because Davey wrecked us in the race at Michigan yeah and so when you show up to tire test at Indy you just walk into the garage and just going to well I mean there's still some hard feelings yeah and Ernie didn't let nothing go right you know did he smart off at him or what how did it start how did the conversation well I mean you know that's he I don't know I think he told Davey if he run into him again he's going to whoop him

want to whoop him yeah yeah and then then you know how that goes back and forth but anyway he didn't he didn't ernie didn't like davy at that point in time and and I had known davy my you know my old life basically and I was kind of hoping they would patch stuff up and we're at Loudon and we're sitting on the bench after practice and we're talking and I was sitting there talking to Davy and our and Ernie walked up and they almost they almost talked they almost thought but they're still drivers yeah they're still drivers you know so anyway we all know what happened with davy the following the following week and ernie oh man that was a week later yeah i think and ernie i called ernie after i found out about it and i said man

you need to go to that funeral you really need to go to that funeral and he's like i don't like funerals because he had had one of his buddies Tim Wilson or no Tim Williamson get killed at Riverside and so he hated funerals and he's like I don't want to go and I said Ernie you need to you really need

you know you really just need to do that that's the right thing to do and he said I'll go if you'll go with me he said I'll fly take my plane and come up there and get you and I said alright well the next morning I'm running behind on the car so the next morning I called him I said Ernie I can't go I just I got too much work to do

and so Ernie goes to the funeral and comes back and I guess after the funeral or the next day or whenever I guess Ford Motor Company approached him and Robert Yates approached him and Larry was in the middle of a contract him and Ernie was in the middle of an extension. He still had one more year remaining on his contract and we were going to resign him. and so they had been going back and forth for about a month on it and I'm getting all antsy and I'm like let's get this deal done guys let's get it put to bed and they had agreed on everything and then we get a phone call I get a phone call from Ernie I think he called Larry first and then I get a phone call from Ernie and he said you remember when you told me you was leave another day as a joke and I said yeah and he's like I'm leaving and it ain't no joke I'm going to drive the 28 and that's what I said

you talk about I just lost my mother I was going through a divorce I think I just got divorced like two weeks before that and then Ernie tells me he's leaving and I'm like my whole world shattered

so anyway he agreed to stay the balance of the year and he said I'll sit out next year if they don't let me out of my contract I'll sit out and go run indie cars or something and so we went I don't know we run a couple more races and it was just that you could cut the tension with a knife. You know, I mean, it was just not a good situation.

And we went to Bristol and wound up and got in a wreck and a race and wound up and overheated and blew the motor up. And Larry said, that's it. I'm going to let him go now. And he did. And so we plugged around for the rest of the year with different drivers and, you know, finished the year. And obviously we went, our performance went way down when he left for the balance of the year.

You seemed heard about that. Did you, when you say there's tension, did you and Ernie ever make amends on that? Or did you guys ever express, you know, or at least come to peace at it? Or did that take a while? No, I think we were okay. I mean, I wasn't okay with it.

I mean, you know, somebody had just taken my driver. Hell, no, I wasn't happy about it. But, you know, me and him had made a pact. And you've been through that with people. You know what it's like. And when that got split up, I was, I mean, My feelings were hurt, and I was mad. But I'm not good with grudges.

But anyway, me and Ernie kind of made peace, and we talked, but I still wanted to, you know, he was my number one target to beat from MN on. And, you know, we went to Daytona the next year, and we took Sterling and beat Ernie in the 500, and Ernie actually come and congratulated me. That's nice. And when Ernie got hurt in Michigan, I went to the hospital, and I sit there with Kim that night. even though he wasn't driving our car. Yeah.

That happened not too long after. And I would imagine that probably hurt you as well. I mean, he should have died. Yeah. Goodness. So I don't remember all. I don't remember him getting cut loose early. Yeah.

But I think there were seven, I don't know, maybe seven races to go in the season. And we finished out with, golly. We got Purvis for a short stint. We got Joe Nemichick for a couple of races. and then we got Jimmy Hensley for the last race in Atlanta. Yeah. You end up hiring Sterling Marlin. How did that all come about?

Who wanted to hire Sterling? Well, that's a long story. My dad used to race against Sterling. And my first year in cup was Sterling's first year in Cup. And I think in Riverside, California, we talked in a Burger King or something one morning. And I found out he was a big UT fan. fan and I was a big UT fan so we for the next 10 years or eight years or however how long it was that's all we talked about was you know how the vows were doing and and we become pretty good buddies and so we had that side of the mix going and then

start on it actually drove for house and runt pitman was the crew chief and runt thought an awful lot of him and runt's whole big deal was winning restrictor plate races he loved plate racing larry mcclure loved plate racing I love plate racing I love play late racing. That was our strong suit. And Starlin was really, really good at it. Even though he had won a race, he took a lot of different cars and run second. And he run second to us, I don't know, three or four different times in

the four car, and we more, I think everybody in agrees, me, Larry, and Runt, we all wanted Sterling for a driver. Runt Pittman was kind of well respected for building great motors, especially the motors that ran over at Daytona and Talladega. Yeah.

What were some of the things that set him apart? What were some of the reasons why? What made his motors excel? Well, he was just a very, very good engine guy. And like I say, they worked really hard at it. I mean, we probably put, I shouldn't say more, but we put a lot of effort into Speedway race and probably enough that it hurt our other programs a little bit

by putting too much into it. But we got rewarded for it. But Runt was an old-school guy, And he knew every aspect about building an engine. And like I say, he worked hard at it. And Runt wasn't afraid to push it to the limit. You know, like I think at the time, I think, you know, some of the other engine builders that maybe that your dad had worked with and stuff, they would, they might get a 90% out of, they might run the motor at 90%. Well, Runt run, run his stuff on kill.

Yeah. You know, I mean, that's, you could ask him what kind of tune up you got today. Runny said she's on kill. y'all also spent a lot of time on exhausts and i mean all kinds of you know hours on a engine or on a chassis dino building different configurations and y'all's cars would sometimes sound different than other cars yeah uh just specifically at Daytona and talladega trying to find an extra horsepower or another pound of torque yeah yeah that uh in 95 we went to Daytona with that and that's a that's kind of a that's kind of an odd story um larry and

run would take any idea than anybody had. And I think this is what helped our programs. If somebody told them something would make two horsepower, send it in your wood. I know it. We'll try it. And this guy told them, he said, I've got an exhaust system that will make your plate motors run better, or make all your motors run better. And we're ready to go to Daytona.

I mean, we are basically ready to go to Daytona. And so the guy, he flies it in, and they put the piece of it. on the dino rig up the tailpipes put them on the dino and we got to be ready to go the next night i always went to when i got to work in the morning during plate season i went to the dino room and i looked at the dino sheets from what they had run the night before because they the engine room worked a lot at night and so i would go in there and see what they had done and i went in there and seen a number i hadn't seen before and larry mcclure walked he he typically got there about nine o'clock or ten o'clock and he gets her at seven-thirty that morning he says come here and i

I'm like, what do you got, Larry? And he said, you've got to see these dino sheets. And I'd always kid them and say, is that a Miller lot run or is that a jack and coke run? Because the jack and coke run has got a little bit more power. And he said, this is legit. We've got to have it. Well, at that point in time, like I either, I've had a lot to do with making the tailpipes, among with other people. And so this is, we got to be loaded this night, that night, which meant I had to make two sets of

tailpipes. So I fly under the car, tack up a set of tailpipes, and I slide it out to Mark, and he wells them all together, and I'm making another set for the other car. And so we barely fired it up that night when we got the car down, just barely fired it up. And when we get to Daytona, the first time we fired it up down there, nobody's really ever heard how it sounded. Right. And it was, even us. That's amazing. Yeah. You know, and we fired that thing up, And I mean, man, everybody was like, you know, we'll know what was going on. It made major news. I mean, I remember as a race fan, the sound of y'all's motors was news because it was so fast as well.

But it sounded so different. Yeah. And like I say, it's really a tribute to Larry and Rutting him because they would try anything. But this Boyd Butler was the guy's name from Dr. Gas. Yeah. And if you'll go on the website today, you'll still see, you'll still see it. because I showed somebody last year. You'll still see that owner about the four car and the sound.

Did, and so y'all ran it? Did everybody get it? No, we cut a deal with him that nobody could get it for one year. And so actually, the whole week we was at Daytona, every time we changed motors, we had blankets around the tailpipes. And I remember Andy Petrie and Steve Meal, everybody was trying to get under there and look. And, oh, man, tell me what this is. And I'm like, nope.

Yeah. So anyway... If you were to see it from the exterior, could you tell what it was? Not really. Right. We had it boxed in. Right. So what was so unique about the pipe that made the difference?

It was. They just, both of the tailpipes come together and they had like a little half moon cut out. And it just made it, it just made it work better. It was about five horsepower. Do you know how that guy figured this out? I don't have a clue. He just called said he had something. He said, bring it on.

We'll try. Y'all had never ran. an ex pipe. It had always been that two, right? It would always been one out each side. Yeah, but wasn't it joined in the center by? Yeah. It was joining as joined by a balanced tube.

Right. But was that? Well, this configuration come back and it went over and they touched each other. It's what they still run today. Right. A lot of people. Interesting. And that's what made it sound different to?

Yeah. And so you were able to keep that because that was just for stricter plate races, right? We tried at other places, but I didn't. It didn't work. I wasn't all that big of a fan of it other places. I mean, it wasn't no big deal. I just kind of, you know, Daytona Talladega was enough. But Larry made a deal with him that nobody else got it for a year.

And then the next year, I rock got it. And they had a car get upside down at Daytona, and it was on the cover of Stock Car Magazine. Goodness gracious. And so then everybody got it. Yeah. that's how I mean nobody was on to that until then that is amazing

that's so unheard of to be able to keep that secret that long well that was one good thing about about Morgan McClure being in Abingdon, Virginia we were the only team within you know a 200 miles and so our guys couldn't go to the bar

at night and talk to you know talk to everybody else until they got to the track yeah you know but and we didn't have people leaving to go to work across the street either yeah i'm gonna be uh i'm gonna just ask the question so i heard that some of y'all's plate motors were pulling air never totally untrue really i will say this i like i say i went in the injured room a lot yeah and i was in there after when when they run the motors i'd go in there in the morning a crew chief did i call the race there was no there was no levers no

nothing to push jerk this turn that knob none of this and to my knowledge and i can i can say this till the day i die runt was an innovator he was a very smart man and he would put it on kill i don't know if runt wanted to cheat all that much or not now larry if it had been totally up to him we would have cheated on everything because he loved that yeah but no we did not well y'all inspired me because i was um i thought that i heard that y'all had drilled out of the valve cover studs into the intake. Nope. And so I had a freeze cap or something in the back of the back of my intake,

and I had a hole drilled in it, and I could turn that hole and line it up with a little system where it would bleed. What car would you be talking about? A little late mall stop. Yeah, no. It'd whistle like hell. Dale was kicked out of three racetracks for that whole thing. You can hardly do it because it was loud when it was pulling out of a little whistle.

I'm going to be honest with you, after the Morgan, clear days there were some times that I was with teams that we did some stuff with the carburetors that made them idle like stupid crazy like they were sucking air but and I in all truth and I'll swear this on anything we never cheated on the motors if they did I didn't know about it and I think I would have known about it I believe you I know they didn't idle 5,000 RPM yeah what is that all about why would they why the carburetors you're talking about what is what were what were they doing well they just they had some they had some deals on carburetors that that would trick the restrictor plate oh and but but they idle like they idle like wow high yeah like you know and we never want to

race like that we sit on some poles like that yeah but we never want to race like that hey explain this to me though you go you got to get your car inspected every week how does how do you guys keep your secrets even when nascar officials can keep eyes on them and i know you weren't for naskar so But my point is, is that, yeah, you guys being in Virginia at the time, there's not conversations going at the bars. But again, I'm so blown away the fact that you guys kept that secret that there are other people that do get to the privilege of seeing what you have under that car, right? And so how do you keep that from becoming a leap?

NASCAR's always been pretty good about their officials, not telling what everybody else has got. They've always did a pretty good job at that. and you know like I say we we kind of kept everything to ourselves we didn't you know we didn't hang out with a lot of the teams yeah plus I think I mean you know not that you know when you bring something new it don't it ain't something where the official looks at it goes oh that's different you know they just not that they don't know what they're looking at but sometimes they don't know what they're looking at you know and I'm going to be honest with you there was a lot of like

the one the in 95 when we had to Dr. Gas we could could have run, we might could have run two four barrels and got away with it because every, all people cared about on that car was, was the exhaust system. We could have done anything else we wanted to and nobody would ever notice. But we had, we had, in plate racing, we had a lot of success, and we had really, really, really good motors. But so did Robert Yates and Rick Hendricks and, you know, Childers and everybody else. But we got on getting the back of the car down a little bit earlier than everybody else. and we, and I'm going to say this, we lucked up on a setup, basically.

How? Just trying stuff. We tested a lot, and we hit a setup that drove good and was a little bit faster. And so we wound up and run that for a long time. And I always said in plate racing, you had to have a really good driver, you had to have a really good car that drove good, and you had to have a good motor. And for about a six years time, in my lifetime, we had really,

really good motors. We had a car drove good, and we had good cars, and we had really good plate drivers. Yeah. So Petrie brought us a deck lid where do you know it's backer still in it? You remember that you heard about the deck lid that Petri made? Yeah. Where it had the hydraulics in it. Have, is there anything, so we'd like to talk about innovation. Is there anything in your career that you created, you modified, that might have been pushing the rules a little bit? Is there anything out there? Yeah, we had a, the 95 car I'm talking about, we had an inspection deck lid that got through one station that wouldn't pass the next station, and we had a, but they never checked this station ever again,

and then we had another deck lid that was legal for this station. so we would physically go through inspection, get turned down, go to the garage area, take one decklet off, walk to the hauler, do a little sandins, do a little spray paint, do a little painting, spend a couple hours, take the illegal deck lid off, another deck lid that was illegal, and put it on and then we're good to go. So we had some stuff like that. So the fact that the stations were separated, you would intentionally, you would put the deck lid on that would pass station A but fail B. Then you'd swap deck lids that was going to pass B. Yeah. Because you didn't have to go back through A again. You didn't have to go back through A again.

You know, and just little stuff like Ed and then like we were the first team to start, when they first put side skirts on them, they were the width of the frame reel. Okay. Yeah. And we was the first team to bring them all. way out to the edge of the body. Yeah. And I've got pictures of cars we had then that, you know, it'll show the other cars that the side skirts are inboard and ours are all way out.

And that was about two-tenths. Yeah, that's a lot because you put basically flatten the whole side down in the car. Now you got side force that guys didn't even talk about the side force back now. I remember when I ran in the Xfinity series, the year before me they had round sides and then my, with the rocker, with the side skirts underneath, way underneath, and then the year, the first year I race, we had the flat sides. That's how recent that that happened, at least in the Infinity Series. I remember a time in your career when y'all were really dominating, you know,

that deal goes in cycles, you know, but y'all were dominating all the plate races. And I remember hearing you talk about somebody's car, and I don't remember if it was up or down, you're like, yeah, that car's going to qualify okay, but it won't race good. because of the fuel sale. Yeah. I know you talked about where people's fuel sales were as to how you could draft with them or how they would run in the race.

Yeah. What did you think they had happened upon that made their plate program so good? The same thing that we did five years earlier. They had a hell of a plate racer. They had good motors and they had good cars. Yeah. And it drove good.

We had Richie Gilmore too. Yeah. He always, he had him, he had a, he had, he had something, about intakes. Remember when they were doing, remember, I can't remember exactly all the details, but Ritchie was building motors for Hendrick.

Back around when Derek Copeland won the Daytona 500, they got into a little bit of trouble with some intakes. And I think they kept the same sort of idea and method, but built it. But made it legal. In a way that it would be legal. But they'd found something. down there with intakes and and and I think that that that helped them even when I came

alone. It's funny you mentioned about like going to station A you know the under a lot of times so Tony Jr. was really good at that too understanding how not having to build a intentionally illegal car but having understanding how the inspection process would open up opportunities. We would do some something just as simple as this. So we go out to pit road to qualify and we they're going to go through and put a angle finder on the on the spoiler and set the spoiler. Everybody's spoiler got set about five cars away from being launched to qualify. And so Tony Jr. the official comes over and puts the angle finder on the, they start on the right and they move across the spoiler to the left, right? And so Tony

Junior's I'm looking it's supposed to be 45 degrees right and it's 50 and so immediately like I watched Tony Jr. go through this process with this official and official walks away and I said Tony Jr. why in the hell was a spoiler at 50 degrees like with 45 is the rule and he said well if I start really high they're going to let me work it down if it's close to 45 they won't let me loosen it up and adjust it and he said if I can start it for it 50 and they'll let me unloosened the adjustments and bring the spoiler back down, I'm gonna set it at 45 on this, on the far right edge.

And as I work across and set each station or each mark or each area at 45, by time I'm done over here on the left side of the car, the right side's down to 40. Yeah. Right? Because as you work the whole spoiler down, it gets lower and lower, right? Because they're all kind of working and fighting against each other. And I was like, no, that's, you know.

and just little things like that that a lot of people don't think about or a lot of people who would finding finding that's innovation man and if you do that five times yeah it makes a difference it does yeah i was telling somebody the other day we're we're trying to we're trying to figure out who's you know we're hiring bummy uh who's the crew chief for josh barry uh he's he's moving up to be our technical director we're got to find a crew chief for josh and i'm like josh i want to find you the crew chief that has a list of all the little things, right, that don't matter by themselves. But when you add all of them together and he's going to do it to every car, that stuff adds up. You know, you want to have that guy that says, you know, somebody might look at that one

thing and go, oh, man, that's probably not going to matter. But if you had a hundred of them, everything matters. Everything adds up. How do you find that out about candidates, though? It's tough. I mean, you have to go on your gut sometimes. You know, you can do a lot of research by asking about people that have worked with this guy, right? Was he a guy that push the envelope? What he really – you know, you want a guy that, you know, you're rolling the car up to the tech shit, and you're pretty damn nervous that's going to fail. You know, you don't want to roll a car up there, but you're like, oh, no, we're not in no trouble.

We're going to get through here easy. No, I want a damn thing. I want you to be worried. Hey, some of the best innovators, as we've had stories being taught at this table, is it like it's one thing. thing to have the idea, it's the other thing to be able to go through the inspection process and not give it up, but just by the way you act. And so I'm curious on some of those things that you were mentioning is that you were proud of, you know, whether it was, you know, the deck, did, did, did it affect you or were you able to play the poker game well enough?

No, we were, we, we were able to play the poker game. Yeah. Y'all did, was there an intent to why y'all painted y'all's chassis flat black? Yeah, we could get away with a lot more. We could, you can't see nothing. Can't see nothing. And I'll be honest with you, and I loved it. I mean, I started that. And we actually, it's funny, you say that the four cars, they were actually, and Larry had to do this to the bottom of them. The bottom of them were painted with a gun, and they were really shiny. Everything else was semi-flat with a rattle can.

No kidding. Yeah. A rattle can. With a rattle can. The whole top of chassis. All the whole bar. Yes, sir. Unreal.

Yeah. I have a connection to satin-black chassis because Robert G's all his chassises, all the dirt car. and stuff for sat and blacking. But when I, I didn't really notice that or think about that back in the mid-90s when y'all were doing that with the Kodak car. But a boy came, Scott Legacy came with this car to the Xfinity series and everybody had to have gray chassis. Everybody.

I thought it was almost a rule to have it. And we had a red, we had a red short-track car chassis. But he, but Legacy showed up with this car and it was black and you couldn't see shit. You'd look in there and be like, I can't. I can't even, everything just blurs together. He was, Legacy was running for, for that team? He drove it.

He drove it. I just remember that was the last flat. Then they, I think, because of that car, they might have made it a rule. Now you have to have a gray dog chassis. Yeah, that car, that particular car I'm talking about was the reason they made that rule. And it also had tinted windows.

Every window in it was tinted. And it really looked good. I mean, a black, I mean, a black windows with a yellow car. Yeah. I mean, it looked really, it really stood out. But you could,

you could stand there and look inside of it and you couldn't, I mean, you couldn't see nothing. And then the drivers got to complaining that they couldn't see through it.

So they made us get rid of the windows. And then eventually they made us get rid of the black. What were some things that you could do to the interior sheet metal or the car to, you know, with that black, with the black paint,

what were some of the things you were able to get aggressive with? You could, with the floor boards, So moving the floorboard was a big deal. Yeah. Right? Getting it lower?

Yeah. Or? Yeah. There was just a lot of things you could mess with. Yeah. You know, and they just couldn't see it. Yeah. Man.

Help me understand what led to you leaving Morgan. Well, that's a long story too. But basically, like I said, I'd worked there for 13 years. And I love that team. I still do. You know, the Larry. McClure was like a dad to me. They're coming point in my life that I wanted to, I was a crew chief, okay, and I'm getting, we've won

races, we're doing good, everything's good, and I'm like, this crew chief deal ain't going to last forever, you know, it's going to flame out before it long where I'm going to flame out. So I've got to, what's the next thing I can do? What's the next chapter? I don't have the money to be an owner unless somebody will, you know, let me be part owner. Maybe I could be a team manager. And so anyway, people had tried to hire me and I wouldn't leave and didn't want to leave. And Felix had been talking to me.

And he had offered me to be the crew chief, but on one car, but be the team manager over all the cars. And to share a bonus program with all the cars. So I got to thinking, you know, 20 years from now, which one of these is going to be the best? Also, I got to thinking, we're the only race team around here. If something happens to this race team or something happens to me or our relationship or if we start performing bad, I'm not going to have a job. I'm eventually going to have to move. And so my contract was up at the end of that year. And I don't know, I think around Charlotte time, Felix, I talked to me again.

And I'd come home from work one day the week before. And my wife had a lot of friends in Charlotte. And I come on one day and she didn't tell me this until after we moved. But I come on one day and she's crying. And I'm like, what's up? She's like, well, I've heard that they're getting, the reason you hadn't, they hadn't give you another contract. They've talked to somebody in Charlotte about taking your job.

And I'm like, really? She's like, yep. And I said, well, that's interesting. So I go to Charlotte and Felix is on me again. He said, man, just come down here and talk to me. And so he called me. true though that somebody was they were talking to somebody no okay so anyway felix said come down here and talk to me and i said okay so me and christie they flew up

iron goddess we went down there and we basically made a deal at night and so i went back and told larry and that was hard that was the hardest thing i've ever done as far as leaving a team because again i love those guys same thing you went through when you when you left when you live de i mean it's it's hard that's hard to do but at some point in life you got to say all right this is what's best for me at the next level and like now if i were still at the for car if i i would have had to move to charlotte whenever they shut down so eventually it was going to have to happen and so i went to work for felix and i don't know i'd been there about i don't know three months and i come i come on from work one day and my wife she's laughing

And I said, what's so funny? And she said, well, I got to tell you something. She said, do you remember that day you came home? And I was crying and told them that one of my girlfriends had told me that somebody from Charlotte's going to take your job. And I'm like, yeah. She said, I lied. Oh, man. I said, what do you mean you lied?

She said, because I knew you were too chicken to go on your own. And I wanted to go. So I had to persuade you into going. She's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She persuaded you. Who-doed you? Yeah, she ho-doed.

You could have been happy about that. No, I mean, I wouldn't have done it on my own, I don't think. I don't think that I didn't want to move her away from her family or my girls away from her grandparents. I didn't want to leave my dad. And so it took something to inspire me to do it. Once I'd done it, I was glad I'd done it. Did you laugh when she said? Oh, yeah.

What was Larry McClure's, you said it was a difficult conversation, and I have no doubt that it was. That would have been hard. He was family for you, right? What was his reaction, though? Well, he wasn't very happy. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. He wasn't very happy that that happened, and rightfully so. But me and him, we had a good conversation at night.

As a matter of fact, they was a few tears, and I thought for a while going to be a few punches, but we worked through it, and, you know, I think we're still good friends and have a lot of respect for him. How long did you work at Ganesis? I started there a long time. Yeah. I went to work there in nine. At the end of 96, so 97 would have been the first season. And then Chip took over in 2002.

No, 2001, I'm sorry. And I stayed there through 2011. It says you and Robbie didn't work well together. You and Robbie Gordon? No. How come? I don't know. I'm not going to blame one particular person.

I had one way of doing things, and he had one way of doing things. and, you know, he wanted things Heliarch, TIG welded, and we built, you know, we basically built the frames, wire welded, and just stuff like that was really what he called? That's the hill he died on there? Yeah, he was really particular, and he was headstrong about a lot of stuff,

and, you know, I'd just come from a team winning races. And he's coming from Indy. He didn't even NASCAR, he didn't even stock car guy. And he wanted. You'd think he'd come in and be like, okay, how's this done? Tell me what's going on. No, no, he had a lot of other. the ideas and and probably I was later on in life we could have worked together from my side but at that

point in time I was probably a little bit too bullheaded too and I didn't want some you know some guy coming in from Indy car racing going to tell me how to win stock car races when we'd been doing it so Felix saw right away that that wasn't going to work and matter of fact when we went back to run Bristol I still had my house in Kingsport and I spent the night there and after Bristol the first bristol race I called Felix and I said bad I know we got a three year deal but I ain't coming back I can't come back and he said you come back and I'm making a change okay and so basically he just uh Joe Nemechek and Robbie just swap deals and I had to give them my two best cars but we got we got Joe and and and today me and Robbie can talk today sure but we couldn't end that's interesting

So, y'all eventually hired Morgan, or not Morgan, but Sterling back. Was that something that you, because you knew him as a driver? Yeah, we had had him as a driver, and I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. I mean, Sterling's one of my best friends in the whole wide world, and he's like my brother. But when I left, that was, you know, that was, I thought, the end of me and him being together. At Morgan's. by Morgan McCleur. And actually, Jerry Swatt's a truck driver, he had been talking to Felix about, man, why don't we get startled?

Why don't we get startled? And so he actually had Jerry go say something to startle about it. And we go to Michigan and me and Felix leave the racetrack and we go outside to a rest area and meet Starlin. And they put the deal together right there. Yeah. So before Sterling, though, you worked with Kenny Irwin. Yep. and Kenny was killed at New Hampshire in a practice crash,

and you described that as probably the worst day of your professional career. Absolutely. Yeah. I guess, you know, I've gotten a chance to hang around Kenny just a little bit. We were both before he became a cup driver, we were both at Andy Hillingberg's driving school the same day. Really? We'd been invited to go over there.

And Jeff Gordon was kind of a bit of a mentor for Kenny, I guess, at some point. At least as Kenny was sort of looking into NASCAR or stock cars, he was getting some advice from Jeff, because Jeff had kind of came through the same path. And so anyways, I got told to go over to Andy Hillenberg's, I'm going to drive his cars for a couple days at a school. They had some regular, you know, they had some school people there, some fans and whatnot, doing whatever.

but it was me, Kenny Irwin, and one or two other drivers, professional drivers. And I was only 16 or 17. I was driving a street stock car and a legends car. So I got to spend a little bit of time with him there, and then he comes on into a sport and is trying to get his career going. You know, I guess just how did you, how do you handle that situation? How do you personally keep going? you know those are when we when we deal with loss in at the track you know when we go to the

racetrack and there's a tragedy there's a there's a real there's an open door to to never coming back you know there's a there's a there's a real thought to I don't ever want to be here again right or or I might go do something else or this is just not something I want to be a part of anymore and I don't know that you had those feelings but I think it would have been completely understandable had you made a change, right? How did you kind of not only keep coming back, but how did you get your program, get everybody together and try to wrap everybody's brain around what you just went through? Well, I was the crew chief and the team leader.

Right. So it was my responsibility to get everybody back together if they wanted to still be a part of it. Obviously, again, that was the worst day I've ever gone through in my professional career, bar none. I mean, I was a huge Kenny Irwin fan, very huge. And I got everybody together, and we talked through it. And really the best medicine for a racer, you have to be at a, it's like a drucky, is you have to be at a racetrack. I mean, when you went through your tragedy, you had to go to Rockingham, right? Yeah.

You had to get back to the racetrack. Yeah. You know, and when you mentioned walking away, that would be like suicide to me because I don't have any other life other than racing. And so, you know, other than my family, everything I have is at the racetrack. Yeah. All my friends, you know, everything I want to do, my passion, everything is at the racetrack. So I have to be at the racetrack to be a functioning person. How did you deal with your?

responsibility as a team leader how did you deal with any kind of you know feeling any responsibility and what happened that day or him driving that car that's your car right yeah um i know that i know that you're human being i know that you're not insulated from you know from feeling sadness guilt sorrow all the things um so now how do you personally work through that it took a lot of support to be honest with you from from my wife and kids and my dad. You know, they helped me, I was a tough guy at work. They helped me through it when I needed them.

And they helped me get through that. And I'm going to be honest with you. There was never a day when I thought, I'm not going to do this anymore. But I'm going to tell you this, there was, there were a few weeks after that that I could go to the racetrack and I could not watch my car go into the corner. When it went by on the straightway, I had to focus on that. I couldn't look. I remember going to Indian testing

and everybody gets out you know everybody gets out near the near the wall and stands and watches her car come by I could watch him come at me but when he went off in turn one I kept looking at turn four who in the industry was who in the industry put their arm around you

Mike Helton no kidding yeah I don't surprise me Tony what about 10 ERWen won you over so well we don't know I personally don't know much about him.

Yeah. But the people that were around him are such big advocates for him, both as a talent and as a person, but what was it about him? You know, I don't know. That's a good question, but there'll be people and I know you'll think of them.

There will be people that you're like, man, if I want to go somewhere tonight, who do I want to hang out with? Okay. He was that guy that you wanted, hey, you want to go do this? Yeah, let's go do that. Well, somebody else had. ask you, you want to go? No, I don't feel like it tonight.

He was just a guy that he just wanted to go hang out with. That's pretty interesting, man. I mean, Mike Hilton's a pretty influential person in my life, too. Yes, sir. It's, it's, it's, there's own, you know, I used to compare him to dad in a way that he would change the room when he walked into it. And there's only a few people that have that type of ability. And he is the kind of guy, too, that has. He can be that he, the person he was for you in that moment, he's that person for so many people at the same time.

I don't know how he has, you know, I got enough going on in my own life that I don't even, I don't even know how he finds the time to be that for other people. But it's pretty, it's pretty apparent that he is a special individual. So what do you think was the heyday for you when you were Gannasi? What was peak? Well, I guess a couple of different stints. I know we'd won in 99 we won Loudoun with Joe. And in 2000, we didn't have a very good year, obviously losing Kenny, but we didn't perform on the racetrack like we wanted to.

And then Chip come on and brought Andy Graves with him. And me and Andy were team managers. And that was like a big inspiration for me, because I was looking for all this technology to come in. You know, all I'd heard about Chip Canassie racing was being engineer driven, you know, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to really learn a lot here, and we're going to learn how to be better racers and build better cars and all this stuff. And immediately, me and Andy hit it off, like, really, really good.

And he did his deal, I did my deal, and, you know, he had responsibilities, and I had responsibilities, and it worked really good. But Chip brought a lot more resources in. We were able to build a lot more new cars. You know, with the support of Dodge, that was a big deal. And, you know, getting motors from Ernie, from Ernie Elliott. Just everything was like, wow, this is really good. And I know the first time we went and tested,

we had taken a Ford that we had built as a test car at Sabco and we converted it into a Dodge. and went and tested with a Ford motor at Charlotte. And Starlin's like, wow, this is going to be fun. We actually, I think we won the 125 with Starlin that year and really going to ask his first race. So, no, that was a good period in 01 and 2002. I think we won five races those two years.

And in 01, we finished third and points. And actually, in 01, if they had to chase in 01, Stirling would have won a championship. And because he got the most points during the chase round. And in 2002, obviously he led the points for the whole year, or for three-fourths of yearly broke his neck. So those two years were good. That's right.

Yeah, so he broke his neck and a crash at Kansas. Yeah. How, I mean, he had to miss a couple races. And, I mean, this must have been a severe injury. Like, because, I mean, Dad, you know, I've heard of drivers racing hurt. He's sitting there for the first time in his life with a real shot at winning a championship.

Was there any talk of how could he race this car? There's a lot of talk from his side. He was willing to go to Talladegh. He's like, put me in a car. I'm going to race. I'm not giving this up. And NASCAR wouldn't really, you know. They knew too much about his injury.

Yeah, it was too severe. Really? And he wound up sitting out. to all rest of the year. And he had a halo on for a long time. So it was bad. But then y'all won a race with McMurray as a backup driver, right? So let me ask you this.

This, I want to, in that year, y'all are winning a bunch of races. We go to, I've always wanted to note this, and I don't know anything else with the other than what I'm going to ask you. You remember the drivers meeting at Martinsville where Matt. where Mike Hilton stood up there and said something about trash control? Who had traction control? I don't know. Why did they talk about traction control?

I don't know. We were accused of it because of Gannasi being. Technology and Indy car. But again. Did they think it was y'all? They were some people thought we had traction control. But to be honest. So much so that Mike Hilton would stand.

This was unheard of. This is unheard of for the sanction body to even mention. a specific around, you know, around any kind of rule breaking. Yeah. Well, again, we've talked about breaking rules, cheat, and being in rules, I call it having to feed my kids and my family. But, again, there's things in racing that you know not to mess with. And there's nobody in their right mind dumb enough to run traction control.

Yeah. If your race team here got caught with traction control, it'd be the end of your race team. Probably would, yeah. Yeah, it'd probably be, yeah. What did Mike Helton say in the meeting? He said, we don't, we don't, I think it was basically like we don't know who's got it. We're not saying, we don't really know if they had a part or a piece or something. I don't know what the hell they had, they had the thing.

And they're like, if anybody has this, you are in big damn trouble. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that is unheard of. Yeah. And so you're all looking around going. Yeah.

Well, I mean, they were winning the most races. So I, everybody just assumed in that moment it kind of implicated them unfairly in a way. Because like I say, NASCAR never stood up in a driver's meeting and went, hey, here's this piece. And if somebody has this, we know who you are kind of thing, right? We know. And that was, you know, that was the weirdest thing because it's never happened since. I don't remember it ever happened before. And they were the most successful team.

And so basically, if you walked in there not having any idea about that, you walked out of that driver's meeting going, damn, Ganesi's got traction control. Goodness gracious. And I bet that was what y'all heard for the rest of the year. Oh, yeah. And how frustrating was that? It was pretty frustrating, to be honest with you, knowing that you didn't have it. Yeah.

So you had that going on. and then Sterling is sitting in a great position and gets hurt. But a little bit of a highlight, like Mike mentioned, is Mick Murray comes out and wins the race and sub at Charlotte. Big damn deal. And Jamie in my mind at this point is like this hot prospect, right? You guys feel like y'all have a – you know, you got Sterling who's sort of on the back end of his career,

and here's a great little driver that's going to keep this thing going. And he did. What was the relationship with McMurray? He wasn't on contract at that point, was he? Was that like maybe to the Finch deal or something? No. Actually, we had hired McMurray to drive the next year at Richmond. He had been tabbed.

Oh, that's right. He had been tabbed as a driver to drive the 42 the next year. And then Stirling gets hurt, and Spencer was driving our car then. And I try to talk Chip into putting Spencer in it so we could win the owner's championship. And I'm not a businessman. And Chip's like, how stupid would I look if I hire a guy and he's good enough to drive my car next year, but he ain't good enough to finish a year this year. I'm going to look like a fool in front of that sponsor.

And I'm like, never thought about it that way. He said to me that. That's why you're not an owner. What was it like with Spencer? Mike had some experiences with him. Mike and him work together for a while. What was it like having him? It was that year.

That was my first year in the sport working on the Finch side. But because of working with Finch and Spencer, I remember being over in the cup garage a lot with you guys. I love Spencer. I knew him before. I was the one to actually kind of talk to Chip into hiring him. I thought he would fit in perfect.

And I enjoyed working with Spencer a lot. But that didn't end up lasting even to the end of the year. No, they made it to the end. the year. But I just seem to remember. So was it because I mean like eventually that ended up where Jimmy and Chip were in a

court battle almost, weren't they? I remember there were lawyers hired or something. I don't remember that, but I do know Spencer run the last, he run all the races because he had a really good car at Homestead and got in wreck. That's right. That's right. That's right. That target program also that had sort of

come over from the IndyCar deal, right? Or his relationship with that. So I've always imagined that you tell me i just always felt like ship had a lot of pressure on that target car to perform um but uh you know but then oh man the sterling was on a rail that year yeah he was incredible yeah and then he got hurt so how did things end for you you know it chips at chips well actually in uh in oh one and oh two we run good and then we got really creative and really uh reinvented the wheel and we went down a path that tour we wasn't very good anymore

and it took a long time to ever get back and it took all the way and then Andy Andy left and Steve Milcom on board who I got along great with and enjoyed working with and it took us a while to get back on track and then in 2009 we started getting back better again

and then I think Juan made to chase that year and in 2010 we got McMurray back and we wound up that you're winning four races and sitting on seven poles. So we had a heck of a good year. And in 2011, we wrecked, we blew up, or we got caught speeding on pit road, or wrecked each other on multiple occasions and had a horrible year. And Chip is not a very patient guy either.

And so myself and Steve got, we were not re-signed. Where'd you go? I went to NASCAR. It just took me a while to get there. immediately when I left Ganassi or when I wasn't working there anymore, I'd realize, and I talked to Mike Helton before a little bit, I realized that, you know what, I've been in Cup for 30 years. I've raced my whole life, but I've spent 30 years in the Cup garage.

It's time to do something different. I want to go to work for NASCAR. And so I was in the process of talking with Mike and trying to put something together. And a friend of mine, Mike Hiltman, he had a little cup team. number 33 car, circle sport, I think was it. And he called and he said, man, are you doing anything right now? I'm like, no, I'm waiting on his job to open up. He said, can you come help me for a little bit?

And I'm like, yeah, I'll be glad to. And I went and I had a wonderful time working with him and his son and a little family deal. And we basically was a starting park and we raced a little bit. But, you know, I got to finish that year. And then Christy got terminally ill. And I was talking with Mike and I said, I'm not doing anything. I'm not going to travel until she passes or gets better.

And so that took a little while. And then basically once she passed away, I called Mike and said, I'm ready to do something. And he said, we'll have something figured out here within the next little bit. And so you mentioned all, you know, you're traveling over 40 weeks a year. for various different series, what technically do you do, like when you get to the racetrack? What's your role? Well, basically, I'm the technical director for all the touring. And each series, whether it be the Arkmanards series or the Ark Aest or the Wheel of Modified Tour or the Pentee series in Canada,

they each have a technical director. And so I go to most of all the Arkmanards races. And I go to at least half of all the rest of the other races. And I just go there and basically I'm there to help the technical director. And, you know, from the archside, help Ron Drager with anything they need or grayling or anybody like that. I just try to help. And then I'm the one out of that group that represents that's at the R&D Center. I got you.

So I help with rules. You know, when we dino motors, I'm at R&D Center. just anything related to the technical aspect of the touring series through the R&D Center, I'm involved in. How long have you been doing that? This is going on my 10th year. What? Yeah.

You've been doing this 10 years? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Where does the time go? I told you, I take one-year deals, but most of them less for a long time. Oh, gosh. 10-1-year deals, right? Yeah.

That's what you did? Well, what's next? This is it. This is it. Yeah. I don't think he's slowing down. I think he's just, I don't. I don't think he wants to.

Yeah, 65 years old? Yep. Feeling like you're how old? No, well, I don't know, to be quite honest with you. I mean, I don't feel like what I think 65-year-old people should feel. I mean, but I stay active and I stay on the go. I'd like to, I made a commitment 10 years ago to Mike Elton that I would do it for 15 years, just that more or less as a joke.

And so we talked about it at Talldega a month or two ago, and I said, well, you remember that 15-year deal? He said, yeah, you're about a decade into it, aren't you? And I'm like, yeah. But, you know, for sure, I've got five more years. I'd like to make it 10. And to be quite honest with you, if I quit today, I don't know what I would do. Yeah.

Do you ever get to the cup races? I watch every, I don't think they can run a cup race on Sunday if I'm not traveling and I'm not on the couch watching it. Yeah. I watch every one of them. I don't go to any of them because, you know, if it's a conjunction race, I'll be there until we complete our event and I leave. Yeah.

So you were over at Bristol? I was at Bristol Thursday for the Arka race, and then I run back home and jumped on a plane Friday and went to Riverhead for the modified race. How about that? He's getting after it. I wanted to tell you something about Tony because I don't think Tony will tell it about himself.

So, you know, when we announced that he was going to be on the show, Fatback called me, he goes, I've got to tell you something about Tony Glover. And he goes, because he ain't going to say it. But Tony Glover is everybody's friend. And that's like that's what you are to the, you know, an entire sport. Well, he goes, you know, there was a time, I guess,

with Fat Back's back was hurt, and he couldn't move around. And he said, Tony, who was his neighbor, would drive him everywhere, would be his chauffeur, basically, just because he's a good guy. And even, I believe, you took them to the hospital. To the hospital. When his wife was pregnant, is that it? Or was it for Frat Backs? No, to the hospital.

Yeah. He told me, he said, man, my back's bad. I don't think I can drive her. I said, just give me a call. And he called me one Friday morning. He called me Pop, Pop. He said, Pop, Pop, it's time to go. I said, I'll be there in 15 minutes when I get out of the shower.

I think that that speaks to who we have at this table. Is it the kind of guy that would, you know, when people say give the shirt off your back, I think you're probably one of a few people to actually do it, right? And that says something about you. Well, I've been in this sport for a long time, and I don't think I have very many enemies, and I'm pretty proud of that. Yeah. I'd say that that's absolutely true.

And everybody that I ever talked to or anytime your name ever came up, it was always in a positive light. And people just seemed to really, you know how you mentioned Kenny was one of those guys that you just wanted to be around? I think that's who you are too. Well, I appreciate that. Everything I ever heard about you was always people bragging, people talking about how great a guy you are and how much fun you are to be around. And you're good at your job. you had some great success. People not only appreciated you as a friend and a person,

they respected you for your ability. And I think you absolutely ought to be proud. But I love the fact that you're still out there, still digging. Because, man, I'm telling you, when, you know, all of your generation is my generation's heroes, right? You and all the people that I, everybody that I saw in the garage when I was young, those are my heroes and you don't want to, and you want them to live forever, right? Yeah.

You want them. And the fact that there's a few of you still out there making some things happen and keeping things going in the right direction, particularly at the grassroots level, like, you know, how important that is. Yeah. So we can't thank you enough. Well, this is my golf game. Yeah. You know, like I say, I don't have to go to races I get to go.

Yeah. And I'm going to be honest with you, none of this would have ever been possible without the people that inspired me, like you said, your generation. I mean, I had some guys inspire me when I was a young man and helped me along and brought me along to get me to where I, you know, to where I wanted to go. And I'll never forget those guys. Yeah.

Well, we appreciate you, Tony, for coming in here this morning and giving us some time. Tony Glover on the Dale Jr. download. You know, Mike, whether I've been in the garage, right, as a driver or in the studio as a member of the media, the biggest lesson I've learned over the years is that we are all better off with an ally. A friend, a partner. My favorite part of the download has always been the opportunity it gives me to connect

with such a wide range of people. They love racing as much as I do, and it means so much to me that when we leave the guest segment, I leave it with a feeling that I can call each and every guest on the download a true ally. Thank you, Ally, for your continued support of the show and the entire Dirty Mo Media team. Well, that'd be said. We are live on YouTube for Asking here. All right.

Hey, everybody. Good to see you, everybody. Thanks for tuning in for the Ask Junior portion of the show. You guys have been sending in your questions to Xfinity Racing on Twitter. Let's get through these questions. This first one here comes from Brent Jordan. He says, the biggest surprise or disappointment when you saw the 2023 NASCAR schedule. Let's see

Delta Xfinity cars go to Sonoma now Yeah they do yeah Isn't that crazy? That is crazy That would be fun actually I think that would be fun race to run Milwaukee's back on the truck schedule also Yeah I was surprised by that

In a good way You know I'm not sure exactly where I land On this Chicago street course I think it's absolutely something we need to try And I'm anxious to see how that goes I think this car is is built for stuff like that so it's probably going to be entertaining and and challenging for the drivers it would be nice to see them in a new in a new you know environment that they are unfamiliar with so I think that'll go

well did you guys know that the very one I think the very first automotive race in the United States was held in Chicago that's right and that they will actually race on a part of the same road or there's a little bit of a stretch of the proposed street course that is actually what they ran on. The OG course. Yeah. That's pretty cool. So they ran like 10, 30 miles up north, turned around and then came back south and finished

this race back in 120 years ago, whatever it was. and but yeah they're they went right down the same road that we're going to actually have our and i don't even know that when naskar created this whole thing that they even knew that yeah and that's such a coincidence that's wild um but i'm that hopefully they lean into that you know that connection uh to to to this race but i don't know you know obviously north wowsborough was a great thing but i kind of was in the middle of all that um and uh Everything else was pretty straightforward, no? I think it's pretty, yeah, there's still the one-off weekend for Cup.

The Road America, you know. Yeah, that's sad. A lot of people are sad about that. I mean, I was taking it or leave it. I'll be honest with you. I wasn't all of that enamored with Cup racing there. The Xfinity race there, I like, because it's been done for so long. It kind of feels normal to be going there, and we're still going to go there with the Xfinity series.

But the cup race was kind of so new that I didn't feel like I lost anything, you know, when they changed that. Did you see this is just continuing on Chicago Street Course that there's a Chicago Art Museum that's putting up a fight because they're scared that the motors are going to shake the paintings and the art? Yeah, so, you know, that's a thing. That's a legit thing. I mean, you're laughing about it, but that's, I would be concerned if I had, I was. I guess if you're the art guy, you're concerned. You're like, hey, man, what's that's a lot of money that I'm sure is probably at risk. You know, you'd be buying a lot of bubble wrap the weekend of the Chicago Street Course race.

Well, yeah. That Monet gets rattled a little bit. You know, I laughed when I heard about that, and I might even said something on Twitter about it. But this is the part about the Chicago Street Course that is sort of bugging me a little bit. It's like a lot of people in that, Chicago aren't, are not, like, happy or excited about it. They're like... It's not getting a lot of local support.

Right. I don't know anyone from Chicago that's excited about the streetways. Everyone else is, but Chicago is not. They're kind of like, well, I don't know, man, is this going to be a good thing or not? They're not really, like, embracing it, at least that, you know, the media that you read about is always, there's just, it's just a sort of stream of concern, right? And I don't, you know, I don't know to think about that. That kind of takes the wind out of the sales for me. This next one, just continuing on the conversation,

kind of of actually North Wilkesboro comes from Tyler Bachman. He said, do you think they'll add safer barriers to North Wilkesboro? Oh, yeah. If so, how do you think that will affect? Because that's going to take some track surface away from the racetrack. Yeah, I think it'll be okay because I've been in conversations with the powers to be that they have the control about that very thing when they add safer barrier to bristol for example it altered that racetrack in a bad way when they added safer barrier to darlington and especially

in turns three and four it it changed the racetrack in a negative way anytime you know you anytime you run on a racetrack for years and then they they add the safer barrier and that takes away several feet of racetrack. You have to change what you're doing. You don't like that. Now we've gotten to the point to where we run. We've ran so long with the safer barrier at Darlington. You don't even think about it.

And you don't see it as a negative. But right when it happened, the first few four or five races, you're like, man, I really wish I could get that extra couple of feet up against the wall to be able to position the car for the exit or whatever. every time they every everywhere that they added the safer area you had to adjust your line or you had to change something about what you did and

that was not a not something you like to do but with the north wiltsboro so the the way that you run that race track especially coming off a turn two you don't use the whole track like you're not sliding a lot of times when you're coming

out of a corner man you're sliding out to the wall and you're using every bit of racetrack and throttle and all that and you really you know, you really never get in that position on the corner exit of turn two at North Wiltsboro. So I think if they add the safer barrier around this particular racetrack, it might narrow up the exit of turn four in a bad way, but the track kind of opens back up down the hill into turn one.

I think you'll be okay all the way into one through turn two. You won't really feel like you're getting crowded or shallowed up off of two. You're not going to feel like you're missing all that extra, you know, foot of race. track down the back straightaway but I think it will narrow up the exit of four as you come up out of the hole right before the flag stand that's going to be a little shallow there but I'm I'm you know I'm I'm betting that since most of the people that are going to race there have never been on this track to begin with they're not going to even know or care it's not going to bother them one bit it's it's it's sort of when you get used to doing something in a certain way and now there's this this

you know, this hurdle or object in the way and having to adjust what you're doing your line and all. That was always tough at all these tracks when the safer barrier started coming into play. But I think it'll be no problem. A lot of people tuning in on YouTube are complimenting your Marty Houston shirt. Yeah, it's Andy's brother, Tommy's son.

I don't know if I've worn this one or not. I couldn't decide. I couldn't remember whether I've worn this shirt on the show or not. but I got a big long rack of all these throwback shirts and just kind of thumb through them and pull one out. Play a roulette on which one. And then last question here comes from MLJ Fire Dragon 747. That sounds like a high school hotmail address.

That's Alex. Yeah, it's Alex. It says, what do you think of that Brandon Jones kid, especially being the new guy for the number nine car? I'm excited about it, to be honest with you. I know that there was a lot of positive comments on social media about it, but also some people questioning the move. But then he goes out there and almost gets around Noah to win the race this past weekend at Bristol

to kind of prove that was so fitting for me standing there watching that race going, our current driver and then right behind him putting the pressure on is our new driver. This couldn't be any better having made the announcement that week than to see them two duking it out at the end of that race. and part of me wanted to see Brandon get a little aggressive with Noah but at the same time you know that's not really Brandon style Steve LaTard appreciated that he ran him clean

and but it was fitting because you know I know there was some great there was some great feedback on social media about it but also people but people are going to have opinions about everything and to see him go out there and and run right on the bumper that nine car I'm like man this is all So when I, you know, when I think about making a change or when there's a change to be made, say you've got a crew chief that's retiring or, you know, you've got a great relationship with this person and they're a great crew chief.

You know, for example, Steve's a good example of this. All right. So Steve's going to go do TV. If I would have done anything to keep Steve as my crew chief, right, but he was going to do TV. and so I told Steve, I said, hey man, you've got to help me find the guy that comes in and replaces you and we've got to make an upgrade, right? And it was weird to say that to his face, right? Because in my mind, he was exactly what I needed and he was the perfect person for that position. But I was going to say, look, anytime we have a void or in a hold of field, you've got to try to improve on the higher, right?

and you've got to feel like that you're, you know, you've got to feel like that you're trying to, you know, bring something in there that can improve or be better. And also, when it comes to drivers, you've got to feel like that you can take that driver and make him better. We've seen Brandon racing the Xfinity Series for years, and everybody might think that they know what Brandon is,

who Brandon is, where his ability lies, right? where they could probably handicap him and say this is what you're going to get with this guy. But we got to feel like, or I've got to feel like, that there's more that he hasn't realized or he hasn't tapped into. He's going to have all of the things that he learned from RCR and from Gibbs, and then he's going to come here and get new tools. And what are those new tools going to do, right? How are those new tools, the things that we're going to be able to provide to him that he's never had before,

how are those things going to make him a better race car driver? and how can we make sure that that happens. And so I think he's a great little driver, and I think he can even be better. And so that's our objective. That's our goal and our objective is to find that other five or that's 2% that he hasn't found yet. And, you know, when I was racing in the eight car,

the Bud 8 car, right, there was a lot of me that I hadn't tapped into yet. There was more that I could do, that I could be, that I could become. and you know I was only half the race car driver that I developed into going to Hendrick and understanding how they do things and learning all kinds of new ways of approaching stuff it really changes you when you get in a new culture different culture not that one's better than the other but they're different they're so different everything that the way gives does things is going to be completely different than the way we do them and that's going to expose

brand and some new thought processes and some and hopefully it's going to show up on the track. Perfect. Well, that is it for this week's Xfinity Ask Jr. Yeah, I appreciate all the great questions. If you haven't tried Xfinity X-Fi, it's great stuff. I've been a customer for a couple years now, had no issues. I haven't even, you know, I haven't even looked in a couple of months at my security cameras on our vacation house, man, but just be able to pull up the app and look right away and know that because your internet's working is the reason why you can see everything going on at that house is a great feeling. It's pretty impressive that it's just up all the time. I've never had any issues whatsoever. I expected a little bit of drop here and there,

having to go re-having to run down there and reboot the router and get everything going again, but it's not giving me any issues. Anyways, thanks, Xfinity for everything they do for us, everything they do for NASCAR. They're a great supporter of the entire industry. Thanks to all y'all support for everything y'all do to make this, you know, make Dirty Mo click. And we'll see you next week. Have a great week. All right, man. That's a great show, Mike.

400 in the books. 400 in the books. Here's to another 400. That's right. That's right. Congratulations on that and everybody in the team that we have here. And, man, fun show. I love Tony Glover.

Tony's great. Glad to have him on. We've got a few more shows before we wrap up this season. And pretty excited about all the guests we got coming on. But anyways, everybody, hope you enjoyed this one. Have a great week, and we'll talk to you next week on the Dale Junior Download. Check out Dirtymo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.