The Dale Jr. Download - 431 - Chip Ganassi - I Like Winners

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Dale Earnhardt Jr. and co-host Mike Davis sat down this week with one of the most accomplished car owners in motorsports history: Chip Ganassi. After finding his way into the world of auto racing through slot cars and dirt bikes, Chip built his own team and established a championship-winning culture that would deliver victories in every major event in the sport, as well as countless season titles across multiple disciplines. The interview discusses Chip’s upbringing and career behind the wheel at large, which saw him rise from the Formula Ford division to being the most improved driver in CART in 1983. Chip details his horrific crash at Michigan International Speedway in 1984 that made doctors fear for the worse and sidelined him for six months. He explains it was during his recuperation that he figured out his next move, and before the age of 30, he bought into Patrick Racing. In 1990, the team officially became Chip Ganassi Racing, and as they say, the rest is history. Chip’s team has been one of the most dominant forces in American championship car racing over the last 30 years and has grown to have a significant presence in NASCAR and sports car competition as well. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Calling is a production of Dirty Mo Media. There he is. Come on in here, buddy. Have a seat. Hey, everybody. Glad you tuned in. It's time for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. Mike Davis, Dale and Hart Jr.

The Bojangl Studio. You've got a great guest today. Well, how you doing, Rhiz? I'm doing fine right now. This is every week, okay, Bob. Uncle it. You died on that hill. Your career died on that hill and you were hardheaded.

You were a bigger idiot. I didn't even think about it. You thought about it and didn't ask it. That makes me the bigger idiot. I think so. Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dell Jr. Download here with my co-host, Mike Davis, in the Bojangles studio.

And it's time for our guest segment presented to you by Ally, Mike. We have an incredible ally. coming on to the show. I've known this guy for a while, but haven't really got a chance to get to know him like I want. It's going to be an awesome opportunity to do that.

We've talked about it. He's basically won everything. Everything. Name the race. Listen, the only owner in history to have won the Indy 500, Daytona 500, Brickyard 400,

24 hours of Daytona, 12 hours of Seabring, and the 24 hour of Lamont. Yep. Chip Gnassy. I can't imagine there's anybody even close. to all that. He's such an interesting guy, great personality, speaks his mind. He's been through

a lot of different things in this sport that we want to talk to him about, buying into NASCAR, starting his teams, selling part of his teams, eventually selling all of his teams, all of his successes with Scott Dixon and others in IndyCar, EMSA. The other thing, too, that I want to understand is the transition as a driver to an owner. You know, he did that at a very young age, had some crashes, injuries. I want to know about this. So let's get him in the room. Chip Gannasi on the Dell Jr. Download.

This is for you. Excited. It's crazy. Where'd you come from, Chip? Pittsburgh. I was up at 5 o'clock this morning. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I take this stuff seriously. What else is you going to do while you in town? I was supposed to have lunch with Jamie, but he can't, he has something. He has to do it at 1 o'clock. Oh, McMurray? Yeah. Oh, man. He won a couple races for you.

Yes, he did. He just texted me. Did he take? Yeah, he said, ask you what Sinardi said to him the first time he tested Michigan. Oh, oh, that's a good story. That's a good story. Yeah, he got in the car, and he, it was literally his first run. It was like the first run.

And he, we went there to test, and he said, you know, Chip. He said, I got into car. I pull onto the back straight away. I take it to third gear. I think, boy, I'm going really fast. He said, and then I take it to fourth gear. And I think, oh, my gosh, I've never gone this fast in my life. He said, and I have two gears to go.

He said, so I go to the front straight away, and I go to fifth gear. And he said, I'm going blindingly fast. How you say in America? Blindingly fast. He said, and I thought I had one gear. to go, and I started to think how beautiful Italy was in the fall. So, yeah,

that's what he said. He had a lot of great words. I bet. But then he went back, and he went back and won the race. No kidding. We'll get to going fast around in a minute, but you got interested in racing, messing with slot cars? Yeah, yeah, messing with, well, my kid across the street from me had a go-cart,

and our driveways were, you know, straight across from each other. And so I used to, and he was four or five years older than me, so I used to watch, I used to stay on the street and watch for cars, and he would, you know, take his go-carat on our two driveways. And, you know, I just salivated, you know, just watching him. And remember he had a McCulloch engine, you know, it was like nine-and-a-quarter horsepower or something, really fast. like a 70-mile-on-hour go-cart. It was really fast in those days, you know, in the, you know, mid-60s or something,

whenever that was. And, you know, so, yeah, just got started with that. And then my father was in the asphalt paving business. He paved the go-car track, and the guy didn't pay us, or pay him. I was, like, five years old at the time. And, you know, so the go-car, sat the steering wheel was like this big, you know,

and I couldn't reach the pedals. And so, yeah, you know, and then that sort of made it into, to dirt bikes. I started racing dirt bikes after that and then cars, of course, after that. Yeah. So what's the racing scene like up in Pittsburgh?

You know, it's, you know, it has quite a history there. Heidelberg Raceway was there, was in Pittsburgh. It was known for its track. I'm sorry, it's known for its lights. You know, Chris Oconomackie used to tell me, give me all these stories about being at Heidelberg because of the lighting there.

It was supposed to have the best lighting in the country. You know, and... How big a track was it? It was like a third of a mile or something. It wasn't huge. It was really wide. And, of course, they turned it into a shopping center or whatever. But I just...

And the good story about Heidelberg is my parents, on their first date, went to Heidelberg Raceway. As everyone does, right? The next race they attended, they weren't real race fans, because the next race they attended, I was driving in. Oh, wow. Damn, that's, okay, it's a big span. Yeah, big span there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, Pittsburgh's not the racing capital of hardly of anything.

You know, it's not a motorsports center. You know, there was Keystone Raceway there. It was a drag strip. A place called Pittsburgh International Dragway. That was a drag strip. That's about all we had around there. Lernerville right up the road. You know, Lernerville's still there pretty good.

Yeah. And those were probably the big places, you know, the racetracks we have around there. And there's a couple of old, there's a couple of, there's a couple around you know maybe within an hour that you could do on your show the lost lost speedways yeah yeah there's a couple of those up around there yeah so what did you how were you going to find your way out of pittsburg to become a race car driver you know i um i was a i i i just i was always you know i was always trying to you know i wanted to do something like on my own. I wanted to do something

for myself. You know, I, you know, like you, I grew up in the shadow and my father a little bit, you know, and, you know, when you're doing that, you got to, you always want to go do my own thing, you know, and everybody said, you know, you're going to take over your dad's business. You know, I used to tell my dad, if I took over his business and it went that way, they'd say, boy,

the old man really set the kid up, you know. And if it went that way, for whatever reason, they tell you, oh, that kid really screwed it up, screwed it up, no matter, for whatever reason, you know, so it's like kind of a no-win deal, you know, so I always don't want to do my own thing. Was there anything outside of racing? Not really.

I mean, you know, like I, you know, I had, no, I just never, you know, Dale, I never thought, you know, when you're a young kid falling around with go-carts and dirt bikes and things, you never think. You have dreams that you're going to make it or you're going to be in the business one day, but you never, you know, deep down you dream that, but you never would tell people that I'm going to make it. or you'd never tell people I'm going to, you know, I'm going to win the Indy 500 or I'm going to, you know. Yeah. Like my father went also in like in 1963. He went to Indianapolis for an equipment auction and he brought home an 8mm film of the 1963 Indy 500. And we had one of those old Bell and How cameras and used to feed the film through, you know, a little 8 millimeter film. and I must have watched the 1963 Indy 500.

I must have watched it a thousand times. I blasted it on the living room wall, you know, like when I put the screen up, really. And, you know, and Parnelly Jones won it, you know. And later, I, you know, you would, now here you are five years old, and I'm not in a racing family. I'm not in motorsports.

I mean, you know, I remember, I used to watch, you know, Leroy Yarborough on February, so I'd be 20 inches of snow. no outside and I'm watching the Daytona 500 you know and I you had no idea what it was going to come to and then one day I get to Indianapolis and you had to have a veteran sign off on your license when you're a rookie Parnelly signed me off you know damn and then when I was when I was 50 years old I had my Thanksgiving dinner with him you know we're like buds it's amazing it's just amazing something

you did when you're five years old you know to when you were 50 you know and you're You're watching that film, that 8-millimeter film on a race he wins, and then you're having a meal with him. He didn't have a meal with him. What? But I would imagine that you have many opportunities in your life and the way your career has evolved to have these surreal reflection moments of just like, wow.

This is Hollywood script almost, isn't it? Well, you know, I was telling the girls out front here earlier. You know, you just never thought that, you know, motorsports, you know, in the 60s and 70s, You go through this back with your father, your grandfather. You know, like, no one ever thought there would be podcasts or just a market for a podcast or anything. You know, racing used to be just going around the racetrack, and that was it. You know, when the race was over, you went home and see you next week, you know. Yeah.

And then, you know, it's just developed in so many ways. You know, so many people in racing have protected the sport, you know, throughout its growth, you know, and it's just, you know, there's opportunities everywhere in the sport now. that nobody could have dreamt of 20, 30 years ago, you know. What is Floyd Gannasi senior like? Tell us about him. I need to know about that. He was just a working guy.

You know, he, you know, grew up poor as church mice. Is that right? Oh, yeah. He was, and he was in the asphalt paving business, and then he got into the sand and gravel business, you know, and he never went to college. And he, you know, just pulled himself up by his bootstraps. He was like the American dream, you know.

Did y'all have a good relationship? Oh, yeah. Was he a disciplinarian? Let's see, what was he? Could you kind of manipulate situations growing up to get your way? How could you do it? Well, I don't know. The thing I remember is he, you know, while he supported racing a little bit, you know,

he never, he dibble-dabbled in supporting it, but he never really came to a race until I got to Indy because he never, he didn't have anybody there he could interact with. But finally when he got the indie, there were guys there that were like him, you know, like Roger or, you know, Pat Patrick or these guys he could talk to, you know, like they just didn't have that when I, you know, in those lower formulas, you know. How are you racing in the lower formulas? What's getting you there? Who's, who's, yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, so it starts out, you know, I was racing dirt bikes. It was probably the first sanctioned thing I was, I was, doing, you know, and so I was 12 or 13 years old, you know, all the kids had dirt bikes and, you know, like some of the older brothers had driver's licenses and, you know, they had the family station wagon and we had a little trailer with three bikes on it, you know, we'd go to a race and

we'd fake notes from our parents that it was okay to race, you know, and, you know, and, you know, so, you know, started out with that and then I just remember, you know, staying in school, my dad wanted me to stay in school, you know, go to college. You wanted to leave? I wanted to leave. And he said, well, he says, I'll stay in school and I'll help you racing. You know what I mean? That was a good trade.

Yeah, it was a good trade. You know, those days, it was, you know, Formula Ford was like. What school would you go to? Duquesne University. And what would your major? Finance. All right. Yeah.

How'd you do? I was a C student in college. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't going to set the world. I'm fired. I was a good. I was a, I was an A, B student in high school. How far is that from home? Yeah, no, not far at all.

So did you live at school? Yeah, yeah. How did you, for a while and then, yeah. How did you not lose your connection to racing? Like, you're going to college as a commitment. I never, I never, I never, I remember in my senior year, in my senior year, I went into my economics professor.

I said, I'm not going to be in class on Friday. I said, and he said, where are you going? I said, well, I'm going to, I'm going to Phoenix Raceway, and I was driving Scott Brayton's second car. I'm going to Phoenix Raceway, and I'll be here, I'll be back on Monday. He said, well, you know, what are you doing race cars? What are you talking about? You know, like, you want to be a racer?

You want to be a good student? And I said, well, I want to be both, you know. And so anyway, and this guy used to take attendance every day in class. And so I go to Phoenix and I qualify fastest rookie. This was in 1982. I'm sorry, it wasn't with Brayton. It was with Jack Rhodes. It was in the first race of the season.

and like in March of 82, and I was graduating from college there in May, and I qualified fastest rookie at Phoenix. I qualified like Johnny Rutherford and a couple guys. I was all excited, you know, and of course I went a couple laps in the motor pitched or something, you know. But it was funny because I went into class on Monday, and the professor at me, he said, you know,

Jones, Smith, Ganesi, Ganesi, here. And he said, oh, Mr. Ganesi, you're here. He said, I saw you on sports world yesterday, you know, or something, you know, because I was on NBC or the day before. So I was kind of. He watched. Yeah, he watched. He watched. And then I went to Indy that year, and I was the fastest rookie again in 82.

I missed commencement because I was qualifying for indie, you know. So you did, but you did the work, you made it work. Yeah. Did your, did your college friends understand what you were doing? Not really. No, not really. Nobody. It wasn't cool.

It wasn't cool. Yeah. Yeah. I can understand that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know that. Yeah, I was, yeah, nobody thought that, you know, being Dale Earnhardt Jr. was cool either. Yeah, right. They didn't?

No. Dale Earnhardt was not a big deal in school. Really? Not at all. Yeah. NASCAR was it? Yeah, I bet they think different today. That's what we should do.

We should do a show where we go find all of y'all's college friends and just say, hey, how you like me now? Right, yeah. Yeah, or high school even, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you actually went to Bondarott in Phoenix? No, no. It was still in those days, Sears Point. Sears Point, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I did Bonda Ron. Did you? Best thing I ever did. It's terms of just trying to get better at road racing. That was the very probably first thing I did. And it was amazing. I got to Cooper. I don't know if you remember Cooper.

Yeah, Bill Cooper. He was my guy. Oh, shit. Bill Cooper. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, is this like a driving instructor or something? He was, I was, this was 97 for me.

But you were... I was there in 77. So Cooper must have been pretty old. Yeah. Yeah. He's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

Super good guy. Yeah. And then in my class at Vondent was Tommy Lee Jones. You know the actor? Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah. He was in my class.

Holy shit. Like four of us and like we became buds. And because he was doing that movie, the Betsy. Yeah. And he was doing all his own stunt driving in the Betsy. So he was there. Damn, dude. Yeah.

Hey, how many of those drivers this past weekend at Coda could have used a little Cooper in their lives, huh? Yeah, Jesus. Yikes. Yeah. Yeah. He was just a great, great instructor. I mean, I was, those guys had ways of putting things into words that, you know, you could understand. Yeah. And he wasn't intimidating. Like I was, you know, I mean, he didn't tell, he, he didn't shoot over my head, you know, because, I mean, I'm a stock guard guy. I'm coming in here, and he, he could help me understand what I needed to do, man. I was, I go out there. I mean, I would have not been able to be able to keep up with Ron Fellows in that Xfinity race. We ended up beating Ron in 99 and 98. or something, Watkins Lynn,

I'd have never even got close to him had it not been for Cooper's. What is those things like when you go to Bondar? Is it like a class of people or is it one-on-one instruction? It's like he said. You might have a half dozen people or a dozen people in a class

and you all jump in these cars and just run the shit out of them. Yeah, it's just amazing that you could run the shit out of them. For how long? Like a week, a month? Two, three days. Is it camp?

Two, three, four days, something like that, yeah. Sounds amazing. And you get an instructor and he's with you and maybe a couple of people and you and him are on the track together. You race the instructor, and he's pushing you and showing it. Oh, wow.

It was like a top gun. And then he'll hop in and ride with you. Right. And you hop in and ride with him. And then, you know, yeah. It's a lot of fun. It's good, yeah. Yeah.

It's a quick, yeah. So you go do that. That was in 77. Right. You enter Formula Ford. What is the Formula Ford? Yeah, a little four-cylinder, open-wheel car, you know, it was a real popular class in the 70s.

You know, it was, it was, I just, you know, I was racing dirt bikes, and I just remember going, and I come home at the end of the day, and I was all covered with dirt and getting hit in the face of rocks and hands, and you're all chipped up and everything all the time. You had little things on you. I just, I loved when I got into racing cars on asphalt that, like, I didn't get dirty.

I was just glad I, you know, I was just, you know, no rocks hit me in the face or anything. I was just, you know. So, yeah, Formula Ford was a, you know, was a great little class, very, very popular, very competitive. They would say, you know, in those days, if you could drive a Formula Ford, you could drive anything, you know. And it was a good balance, you know, a lot of these different formulas of racing, formula for the Fords were a good balance.

You know, you get to have a good balance of power and tires and brakes, no downforce or downforce, whatever. You know, you have to, all that has to be balanced, you know. And, you know, there's all these different. classes of cars out there and some of them are so bass acords about how they're supposed to you know but the formula ford had you know like little skinny tires and 130 horsepower and you know no down force and you had to really you know you had to really learn to drive to try that thing so you're traveling oh yeah yeah you know all around you know in those days you know Pennsylvania Ohio

New York is it like uh is is is that is uh racing in a formula Ford at that time is it's Is it geographically kind of busted up in... Right. There's like four or five regions in the country, and, you know, I won the region, like, in 1980, and then you go to the runoffs in Atlanta, where they bring all the top guys in from around the country, and you had the runoffs, you know, the...

What kind of driver were you? I was like a student. I was a student of it, you know what I mean? Like, I thought about it, you know. I'd like to think I was kind of cerebral about it, you know? Like, I thought about it. Yeah. You know, like I wanted to be good.

I wanted to be smooth. Who did you pattern yourself after? Good question. You know, early on, you know, like I raced against, I mean, like, when I was getting out of Formula Ford into Super V, Michael Andretti was getting into it. And, you know, so I was friends with he and Mario, you know, and Mario was the guy then, you know, because he could drive everything, do everything. You know, that's kind of the guy you liked, you wanted to be like, you know, you could, you know, and coming out of dirt bikes. into cars, you know, so I had a little bit of, you know, you know, feel for motors.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I kind of, yeah, probably Mario was the guy. What did you drive after the Formula Ford? So from Formula Ford to Super V, which today would be like Indy Lights or NXT, whatever you call it, Indy Next. And so it was like Indy Lights in those days.

It was Super V. And that was, I don't know, I think 280 horsepower or something, you know, and you had some, you had some wings on that car. You had a little bit of aerodynamic. You learned about aerodynamics, and you learned about, you know, what it took to, you know, understand aerodynamics. You know, you were at all the IndyCar races,

and so you met the guys, you were, you know. It was like... They were companion events to the IndyCar races? Yes, much like, you know, X-Finity or whatever. And so how, so it's, you know, you finished six in the standings behind Al Jr. And a few other guys in 81, right? Yeah, I didn't do like the last two or three races.

You had a crash at Michigan. Yeah. Those cars around Michigan, how fast? It's got wide open, right? You were just wide open. How fast? 150, 180. No, 160, 150, 160.

How'd you wreck? How'd a wreck? Some guys crashed in front of me, Greg Atwell, and somebody else, and I went over top of them, you know. You got hurt? No, no, it didn't get hurt there. You just missed races because the cars tore up? Car was tore up. I was out of money.

Yeah, car was tore up. It was 1981. I was out of money. I was out. I was out. And nothing. And that's when I met. So Scott Brayton was a guy

raced with in Formula Ford's, and he'd been in Indy Cars, and his dad was an IndyCar driver. And they had a spare car that they weren't going to qualify or whatever. And he said, why don't you come to Phoenix at the end of the year? I was out of money.

I was out of everything. I was out of racing, basically. And he said, once you come down to Phoenix and try to qualify our, it was a PC6, Penske, PC6. This was in the fall of 81. And so I went down there

and my first time driving an Indy car, you know, that things had like... Ever. Yeah, first time ever, ever drove an Indy car was Phoenix, Arizona, in 1988. The Fall of 81. And, you know, going, there was no...

You know, you went from 280 horsepower to like 800 horsepower. And a car basically weighed about another hundred pounds or something. I mean, it was, you know, It was just a massive jump. There was no, there was nothing in between in those days. You know, like there, and guy, the only thing that was comparable was a sprint car,

but that was a different, you know, that didn't teach anything about how to drive an indie car in those days. And so it was a real disconnect in the sport then, you know, in the ladder system, if you will. And so anyway, got in the, got in their car. And I ran into, this guy comes up to me and he said, He said, you chipper Ganesi. I said, yes, sir. He said, where are you from? I said, I'm from Pittsburgh.

And he said, no, you're not. Where are you from? I said, sir? He said, you're from Mnessen, which is a little town outside of Pittsburgh. And I said, oh, yes, I'm from Mnesson. And he looked at me, he said, I'm from Mnesson. And I said, oh, what's your name? And he said, I'm Ralph Selvino.

I'm with STP. Damn. And, you know, he was, that was Andy's guy, you know, Ralph. and he took me under his wing and introduced me to the petties and he said, you know, I'm going to help you, you know, and I said, okay. And, you know, somebody, you know, if you said,

okay, what you say? Somebody said, they're going to help you. Yeah. Okay, you know, yeah, okay. But I didn't think anything of it. Right. You know, so the winner sort of comes along and a guy named Gordon Smiley

was driving for a guy named Jack Rhodes at the time in 1981. and he left Jack Rhodes team and went to drive for a guy named Lindsay Hopkins and left this opening in Jack Roads team. And he called up Ralph Salvino, and Ralph said, you should get Chip Ganassi to drive for it. And they didn't have a trailer. I remember, I had a duly and a chaperal.

I said, you can have my trailer. I got a duly and a chaperole, so I threw that into the deal, and we went racing, you know. Dang, just like that. In 1982, yeah. Wait a second, though. Back up for a second. How did you do at Phoenix? So, yeah. So in qualifying with Brayton's car, I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah, your first one.

That's when I fell out in qualifying. Yeah, the engine blew up and qualifying. Oh, oh, so you didn't even qualify for the race. Not even qualified for the race. But your first laps at speed were... Holy shit. Your first laps at speed. Was it practice? Yeah, well, of course, it was practice. I just remember coming out of turn four and nailing that thing for the first time in the minute, just nailed you in the seat. And you're going, Jesus. You know, and you get out of it. to turn one. You go into turn one

in those days about 170 miles an hour, you know. Holy crap. And you're just, man, you're just off the gas on the brake and you're just, oh my God, you know, yeah, it was pretty pretty interesting to say the least. Yeah, it took you a while to get used to it, but it was great.

You know, that was, you know, you know, it's like if you can drive around a short track, you can, you know, you can drive anywhere, yeah. In 82, you ran five races? Yeah, yeah. So how do you determine? With roads. Yeah, and what are you doing between those? Yeah, I was just putzing around, you know, at the race shop

and, you know, working for my dad and, you know, just trying to figure something out. A little bit everything, yeah. How did it have those races go? I thought pretty good, you know, like in Cleveland, we were second in Cleveland. No, no, we wouldn't know that was 83. 82, yeah. I mean, it was like, it was just so hard to break into

it in those days because, you know, you had all these guys, you know, Foite, Rutherford, Johncock, Mario. Yeah. You know, all these guys that had been around forever, and there was nobody pushing their way in, you know. How good was your car? It was okay.

It was Mario's car from 81. Oh. So it was a wildcat. It was a wildcat chassis, Causeworth Motor, and it was the car that he'd won with in 81. You know, did he remember that? That was a year, did he win,

or did he or Bobby Unser win that year? That's right, yeah. But it was that car. So it was, you know, the car had a pretty good setup on it. You know, and we had some experience with the cars. You went to Indy for the first time in that 82 season. Yes.

What was that like? Just incredible. I graduated from college. I turned 23 and I went to the Indy 500 all in a 10-day period. Damn it. So I missed commencement. Like I said, I miss commencement. So.

And, I mean, I guess at that age, you're too young to get too damn nervous about it. Right. You're just, you're just nothing. You were bulletproof. You're bulletproof. Damn it. So do you have? have to go out there and get, did you have to do that rookie deal where you go out there and

run? Oh yeah, you had to get somebody to sign off on your life. That's what in partly. He signed off on my license. It says you went, you went 197 in qualifying? 197.7, I can tell you exactly, yeah. Because that was, because I'd never held it, I never held it flat through one and two, ever, ever, up until qualifying. And I just said, you knew you had to. I knew I had to, and I was going to hold it flat, and it was like three miles an hour. You know, it's like, it's just, it's like that. It's just, it's like that. was like three miles on. Explain that, though.

There's a formal rookie. Is it? Oh, yeah, rookie orientation. An orientation. But you can, can you also not get approved and obviously, you know, sent packing? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. If you just don't have it, do you have to hit a particular speed or time?

Yeah, they, you know, they give you like two or three different segments. They'll say, go do, go do, you know, 10 laps at 170 or something. You say, okay, that's piece of cake, you know, piece of cake. Then they'll say, go do. 10 laps at 180, you know. And then they say, go do 10 laps at 190, you know. So then you're kind of... I got it.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. You finished 15th in that race? Were you happy about that, I imagine? Well, yeah, I had a little engine problem near the very end. I think I missed a gear or something actually on one of the restarts. It was like I zinged the motor.

And I was like, I got the gear and I kept going, but then the motor pitched a little soon after that, yeah. So moving on to the 83 season, you had top five finishes in the last three races. Yeah. Yeah, I was with Patrick. Sounds remarkable. You know, they said I was the most improved driver in 1983. I won the most improved driver award. And I always said, I don't know if that said more about 82 or more about 83.

Was I so bad that I had all that room for improvement. But yeah, I mean, the last couple I remember, you know, we raced at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas, you know, right next to Caesar's Palace Hotel they had a race trip there. and it was, you know, one, and then a week later we went to Laguna Saka. And one race, it was Mario, Tio Fabi than me. Then the next week it was Fabi Mario than me. Those two guys just, yeah. Yeah, three Italians.

There you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the podium. But it feels like you're coming into your own, though, at this point. Like, you must be starting to get really comfortable here. Yeah, I was getting comfortable. I was, you know. You just ran a handful of races.

I know. Yeah, but I'd just run a handful of races. I hadn't done a full season yet. Right. You know, yeah. I think that's pretty fascinating that, you know, you would have top three finishes so quickly. Yeah, yeah.

Was anybody else like, hey, man, damn, damn, damn, where'd you come from? I mean, you know, Ralph and those guys were, you know, encouraging me. And, you know, and I remember in those days coming down here to Daytona. And, you know, they, you know, I was, you know, hanging out with the Petties and Tim Richmond and those guys. and, you know, just getting to know these guys. And, you know, they just were introducing me around, and I was getting to meet people. So while all of this has happened,

and you're also mingling with NASCAR people. People, yes. Through STP. Through STP, pretty much. But that, is that, you know, is that, it's just coincidental at the time, right? Completely coincidental. But would that be?

Was that like the seed? Yes. Of course. That was the seed that, you know, a little water on it, a little more water, a little more water, you know, just over the years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get an eighth place finish at Indy in 83, 1984, start off slow, career best finish at Cleveland in second place. Right. Let's get to the crash at Indy.

Michigan. Or Michigan, I'm sorry. Michigan. What happened? I was having a, you know, the car was fast. I was running like in the top four, five, six or something in the race. And I came in for the first stop and they lit me on fire. And that was one of those years they came out with a new.

a new buck, you know, in the fuel, you know, the fuel, you know, inlet on the car. There was a new system or something, and guys were having trouble getting the fuel thing straight. And, you know, like half the pit stops, you know, fuel will come shooting out of the thing, you know, and just lit us on fire. Anyway, lit me on fire. And a couple guys, you know, I still see a couple guys today run around that got burns from that day, I remember. And so I'd lost a lap or something. And I was down a lap, and I unlapped myself on the track.

I was fucking fast, you know. And, I mean, I unlapped myself on the track. I was really coming back. I was coming back, this is good, you know. And we were running these little tiny shocks on the back, I remember. We had these new conies in those days, and they were little tiny things. And so it was bumpy. And we were bottoming the shocks.

You know, I was bottoming the rear shocks and didn't know it. I mean, I kind of figured because it would just get loose all of a sudden, just wham, you know. And that's kind of what happened there. You know, I just lost it coming off a two one time. You know, it kind of flattens out there. Yeah. Coming off two.

And, you know, I just got a little, you know, it was going a little too fast. You know, right before, you know. Yeah. Had you ever been in a wreck like that before? I crashed to Phoenix one time in testing. You know, I remember I crashed in Phoenix one time. I, you know, like I, I remember, I remember turning down into turn one, and I hooked the, I hooked the left front tire on the apron.

You know, that was when the apron was, um, it's a big transition. It was a big transition to the apron. It wasn't a smooth transition. It was a litter of an edge there. You know, and I, you know, it just started to bring the rear end around. I thought, oh, I'm going to spin, so I'm thinking, okay, this is my going to be my, I remember vividly thinking to myself, man, this is going to be my first Indy car crash, just bring my both feet to the middle, put the clutch in.

When it comes around, I'll just catch it and do a 180 and keep going, you know. And, I mean, the next thing I know, I'm at the exit of turn two, and the whole right side is blown off the car, you know. And I'm just like, what just happened? Like it happened so fast. Right. You slow it down in your head, but then all of a sudden you realize it was going way faster than you thought it was, you know. Do you remember Tumbling through the infield?

So, yeah, at Michigan, I don't remember any of that. You know, like I was just showing somebody that video the other. day. And when you watch it? It means nothing. Nothing. It means nothing. Wow.

Could be anybody. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No, it doesn't mean a thing. Well, then what's your first memory then of the, after that event? After that event, I remember waking up, I was at the University of Michigan Medical

Center in Ann Arbor. They flew me out of there in the helicopter in Ann Arbor. And I remember sitting there and I was in an oxygen tent and they had tubes down my throat. You woke up with all that? I woke up with that. You know, and this was like on Monday. I was in a coma overnight. found out later.

Yeah. And I remember the doctor saying, you know, Chip's going to have problems. My parents are sitting there. And they said, Chip's going to have problems. He's never going to be able to drive a car again. He's going to have problems with his, I remember him saying he's going to have problems with his long-term memory. And I'm thinking, and I can't talk.

Right. So I'm thinking, long-term memory. What's a long-term memory? Like something we learned a long-time. So, like, what's two plus two? two plus two is four, you know. Yeah. You're checking yourself out.

I'm checking myself out. He said, he's going to have trouble driving. I'm thinking, I'm moving my fingers like this, and I'm moving my toes, you know, thinking, like, all right, you know. And so I'd hit my head on, like, what happens is, and you probably know this from your driving, you know, when you have an accident like that and you hit your head, like if you hit your head on the left side, let's say, the damage you get is on the right because your brain, is like suspended in liquid.

Tethered, yeah. And it kind of goes over. And the snapback is what gets you. You know, when you get a concussion or whatever, it's the snapback that gets you. So, yeah, so I had short-term memory loss. So people would come in and visit me, and I was fine. You know, I'd say, hey, you know, like if you came in,

I'd say, hey, Dale, hey, Mike, how are you doing? You know, what's going on? Everything, okay. How's the podcast? You know, and you say, yeah, good. You're okay, yeah, I'm fine, man, okay. And you say, okay, we're going to go down and get something to eat. We'll be back in 15 minutes.

And I said, okay, great. See, have a good time, you know, try some of soup, you know. Yeah. You get out and you come back in 15 minutes. I go, hey, deal, Mike, how are you guys doing? No shit. Oh, yeah. I was like, whoa.

So that lasted for about 10 days, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And that eventually got better. Yeah, that eventually got better. So they said, they thought, you know, when they got to you at the car, your own responsive and they had to get you, your heart started. Like, you were.

I was out like a light. You were headed. Yeah, they stuck a tube down my throat. And, yeah, Steve Olvey. Save your life. saved my life. Saved your life. Save my life.

No question. Do you ever see him after that? I just saw him. Ironically, I just saw him about a month ago at the Motorsports Hall of Fame in Daytona. They inducted he and Trammell into the Hall of Fame.

So I went down there for that to make sure I was there to see those guys. That's cool. There are many people that you have. There are many people you run into in life that you could say that guy saved my life.

Yeah. Like, that's a big thing. That is a big thing. That's a big thing. Have you ever had more than a conference, Have you ever had more than a casual conversation with him about it? Oh, yeah. Oh, plenty of times.

Oh, yeah, yeah. What do you tell somebody? First of all, you just say thank you. I mean, you start with a big thank you, you know what I mean? You know, and then you ask him about it. You ask him kind of what happened because I guess I didn't realize this, but when you're unconscious and you're belted in the car and you're unconscious, you know, you're not moving.

You're belted in tight. and your head, if you drop your head, it closes your windpipe. You know, so you're unconscious, and your windpipe closed, so you get no oxygen, you know. So that's a big thing, you know, that's different from like a regular car accident.

Okay. Like if you're in a car accident and you just have a lap belt on, you know, you might, you know, you don't know where your head is, but when you're belted in, your shoulders are back like that, when you are unconscious,

your head drops, you know. So, yeah. And that's why they thought you were dead. They think, because this is, no, I mean, honestly, Well, they put me in the helicopter. Oh, we thought you were dead. And he told my father, like he told my father, he said, like, we put Chip in the helicopter.

And, like, we don't have the facilities here to take care of him. We put him in the helicopter. And he said at the time, he didn't tell my father this at the time. This was after the fact. He said, we weren't sure he was going to make it to the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. In all seriousness, they really were that concern.

That's fascinating, man. And so, you know, the issues with the short-term memory in that was, you know, 10 days. But any, you know, how long did it take you to really get to where you felt like you're, you know, when did you drive a car? Probably six months. So that was in July. The accident was in July. And I drove again in, at Phoenix, the last race of the year. I went back in.

How did your, what was the conversation like with your parents about you wanting to go back racing? Yeah, just, you know, they didn't understand it. But, you know, you know, it's like you want to leave on your own terms. You don't want to leave on because of, you don't leave on your own terms. Yeah, I left on my own. We know that all too well. Yeah, right. Right.

I get that, yeah. So I went back and, you know, I drove, like, in 85, I just drove for Foyt at the Speedway. Yeah. And then I started to drive over for a machinist union. And then I started driving some sports cars and stuff. And, you know. What did you think about that? About sports cars?

Yeah, I liked it. You know, it was kind of, you know, I was good at it. We won a couple of races and, you know, I was good at it. It was kind of like where my roots, like road racing. I had road racing roots. So that kind of came easy, you know, came very easily. And, you know, when you get in a good car, you know, you're ready to go. And, you know, if you're a good drive, you're getting a good car.

You're going to win. Yeah, yeah, it was a good car. I got in, yeah. So in 1987, you ran the 24 hours of Ma. Yeah. You ran the 24 hours of Daytona in 86. 85 and 86. 85 and 86.

You were with John Paul Jr. That dude's got a story. Oh, man. He's got some story, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah, I just remember at Daytona, waking me up in the middle of the night. You drove the 24 hours there, you know, like,

and in those days, you know, there weren't energy drinks and sports. You know, we had coffee. You know, we had coffee in those days. And I remember, and you used to turn down into turn one there at Daytona, there was a thing that would flash up your stuff. straightaway speed. And, like, as you turned into turn one, there was a, there was a border, and it just flashed up your straightaway speed.

And I remember, like, they woke me up at four in the morning. It was time for me to drive. I was going to drive, like, four to seven when the sun comes up. And I remember my girlfriend, come waking me up. Come on, come, come, come. Get up. Time to go. Here's a cup of coffee, you know, and I have my suit on, you know, and I put a dry t-shirt on.

I pull my suit up and get out to the pit lane. And I vividly remember. two things. I remember one, I remember going out of the pits and like the first time going, I get up on the banking, you know, come off the infield and I get up on the banking and I remember I could smell like somebody cooking hamburgers in the middle of the night, you know, like just you see somebody's grill, you know, you could smell that grease on the grill. And I came around like, and then the second, The second lap, I remember, I'd look up and the speed flashes up. I was driving that Buick March.

It was Phil Conti's car. R.C. Kolo was the sponsor. The thing was fast. It was a turbo Buick. And I remember the speed flashing up, 202, 202. And I vividly remember, like thinking to myself, I was in a dead sleep like 15 minutes ago. Yeah.

And here I am going 202 miles an hour, you know. This is exactly the same thing that I would think every morning we'd have those 8 a.m. practices. Like at Atlanta. They're like, hey, man, get in the car. You're going to go practice 195 miles an hour. I was sleeping. You guys have sheet marks on your face as y'all was driving. Right.

That is the damn truth. Oh, I remember. I remember. Yeah, it's the little things. It's crazy. Crazy. Crazy. So while you were injured, you went back to work.

the family business a little bit, and that was a bit of a wake-up call that racing is where I belong. Yes, exactly. And you invested in a race team in 87. Yes. What team did you invest in? So Patrick was, he was kind of getting out of racing, and I was going to get in. So, you know, I wanted, I wanted to stay in racing, basically. And I had a half million bucks saved up, and my dad lent me a half million bucks. And so I bought the team. And, you know, that was at the end of 87. And then the, the, The deal was Patrick would run it in 88. We would share the management of it in 89. Then he'd be gone in 90 because I was like 28 years old at the time, 29, 20, 28, 29 years old.

So, you know, there weren't any 28 or 29-year-old car owners running around in those days. So, yeah, so in 88, we had Emerson Fittipaldi as a driver. Marlboro was a sponsor. You know, it was pretty good, you know, just, and finished second at Indy, second. in the championship, 89, one indie, won the championship. When was the last time you drove a race car? Yeah, a real race car would be Lamont, you know. But, you know, after I pussed around in like some, you know,

demonstrations or some things like that. But in a race situation, it would be Lamont. In 87? In 87. How did you come to terms with making that choice that you're not going to drive anymore? You're going to be in order. You're young. It's tough.

Yeah. It's the toughest thing ever. do it? Well, because there were just opportunities that I wasn't getting. You know, like there were, there were guys coming into the sport at the time. Michael And Reddy was coming along, and Alonzer Jr. And, you know, they were just like they were really new young guys coming in. And they were getting opportunities that weren't there for me, you know, because I didn't have, you know, the record or the name or whatever, for whatever reason, or the sponsorship. But you'd move to EMPSA and sports cars and you had success. and there was so many other avenues.

Yeah, I mean, but just the driving. I was being pooled like I was, I was mentally in my head. You know, I was being pooled. Do I do the family business thing? Do I go in racing?

Do I, you know, do I use my education? What do I, you know, I was all mixed up there. But is this you, is this you and yourself, self-reflections or are people trying to sway you in one direction or another? All the above. All of the above.

All of the. above. And so is anybody advocating for you to stay driving? Nobody. Nobody. Except me. Except you. Okay. That's fair. Even me. Even I was just like, you know, yeah, I wasn't, you know, I could just see the writing on the wall. Like, like I always felt like you had to make a, you know, deal when you drive, you know, you got to make a commitment. You don't only make a commitment for yourself, but you're making a commitment to, you know, another, you know, 50 people probably, you know, that are, counting on you to do what you say you're going to do. You know, like whether it's, you know,

crew chiefs, engineers, sponsors, people. You know, like, and I felt like I had to make, like, another three to five year commitment, you know, like a three to five year push if you're going to stay, I'm going to stay driving. Okay, I'm going to make a big push here for three to five years. You know, I mean, and you got to, and I just couldn't look people straight in the eye and tell them

that's what I wanted to do, you know, when we were so, I get that. That's pretty unusual. So I understand that. I do. But you then make an even more, in my opinion, because I'm on this side of it too, an even more difficult commitment as an owner. You're now more responsible for all of the employees' livelihoods and financing this team and however you find the sponsorships and all that's now your responsibility, which as a driver is at some point. But you don't, and I'm going to tell you something you probably know, and that is,

you don't realize, I mean, here you are, I'm looking at your team out there in the garage and I'm saying to myself, you know, you don't realize how much you pick up about the business from your dad, and that's what I did. I picked up the business from my dad and didn't even know it. Yeah.

You know, working for him, I was like picking up how you know, how you treat people or how you, you know, when to be a disciplinarian and when to be their buddy, you know, that kind of thing. You just learn that. And you don't even know,

you're learning it when you're around that situation. Does that make sense? It's very good, yeah. You know what I mean? Like you, I'm sure you, you know, you have an example. I'm sure of something you learned. You didn't even know you were learning it, you know, but you just picked it up because of your family.

Yeah. You know, what they were doing. You just picked it up, yeah. I think both of you probably had some intuitive stuff that you didn't ever know you have. Whether you picked it up or whether you were almost instinctually just, you all have it. I mean, like, I think that business owners got to have it, don't they? I mean, just some, whether it's common sense. grow up in it.

I mean, you're a finance major. I mean, like, so that can't hurt. I could argue with you that the best college I had was hanging out with my father, you know. I don't doubt that at all. But let me ask you this. When you did make the decision to get into team ownership, it sounds like you're making that decision because you want to be in racing. Right.

Not because of the business model being so renowned for being able to make money. No, right. What was the business model like at the table? like at the time. I mean, like, what, just so I know what the expectations

would have been for you. It was, it was three to four million dollars a year to run the team. They were on the whole team. Okay. That was a front line indie car team in those days. Yeah,

but there was a frontline indie car. They didn't run at the front. That was having a driver that got paid, you know, close to a million dollars in those days all in, you know, like,

and, and, you know, like, the business model was, uh, in year one, the business model was, make sure we're here in year two.

Right. You know, like, I mean, you know, you were never thinking, again, you know, did I want to be successful? Sure. Did I want to win races? Sure. Did I think I could do it? Sure. Did I tell anybody that?

No. You know, like it's like, again, you go back to when you're five years old, you know, you're going to be a race car driver. Well, sure you are, you know, but you don't, you know, you don't think it's ever really a. That's interesting because that's consistent with what I think most people are like in racing is that they're not getting into it because it's going to make them money. You're just hoping to break even. And, of course, you've got goals that you want to win races and championships.

It's just to stay alive. Yeah, it's the same today. Exactly. It's the same today. Make sure we're around next year. It literally is the same. Yeah. I know.

Yeah. Well, it worked out really well in 89. Y'all won the N.500 in the championship. So tell me how that early success influenced you. Are you sitting there going, well, damn, you know? Not bad, huh? Yeah. Not bad, yeah.

You know what it showed? You know what it showed me? You know what it showed me? It gave me a real respect for good people and people know what they're doing. Get good people around you. You know, you look a lot better than get good people around you. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, I'm not interested in running a school for anybody.

You know, just get the good guys and you're done. You're there. And like, it's, yeah, it's, it's, uh, I learned, you know, I sat back and I watched and I'm thinking, you know, because everybody has, you know, in racing, everybody can look at, you know, I can look out there in the shop, but I can count your cars and count the people and everybody knows what everybody else has. You see it on the weekend, you know, you see your group, it's right next to them. You look at their car. It's right there.

You can see, see the cars. You can see the tools. You can see the people. Everybody, and everybody has all the shit today. You know, everybody has it all. Yeah. The only difference is the people. So you win the, you win Indy in the championship in 89,

you end up changing the name of the team to Chip Canassie racing in 90. You signed Eddie Cheever. Yeah. And you bring Target. Yeah. But your first win is 94. Yeah. What happened?

Yeah, just, you know, it was, you know, Achiever, I'll tell you a funny story about him. I like Eddie. We're friends. I was dating a girl, and we flew over to Mid Ohio. And my friend's helicopter one day to a test, Eddie was over there testing, and I was trying to impress this new girlfriend of mine. And I said, come on, let's go over to the racetrack, and we'll get a test squad on there today.

You know, it's the middle of summer. And we go over, and Eddie's driving around and I said, come on, let's go down here. We went to the bottom of the straight-of-end those mounds. They just put those mounds in at Mid-Ohio. Truman just redid the track, and he put the mounds in. And we go down, we were sitting on the mound, and, you know, I'm sitting there with her, and we're watching Eddie go around. which are just the two of us, nobody in sight, you know.

And she had a great line. And this girl had never been to a race in her life, never been to a racetrack, never did. She said, I had just to have a question. I said, yeah, sure, what's up? She said, well, how come one time when he comes by, he's on that side of the track, and then the next time he comes by, he's on this side of the track.

And I go, God damn it, I want to fire him. That's what I knew. Like, so she just saw him. for the first time, what I was trying to figure out, you know, like, why is this guy not, you know, like, Eddie was a great guy. I love him, but he was like, you know, the fastest he was going to go all weekend was the second he got off the trip. His first lap was his fastest lap all weekend. Then he just slowed down, you know, the whole rest of the time. Changes, change that, change this.

Slow down, slow down, slow down, slow down. All I, not all I remember, but mostly what I remember about Eddie was running daddy down in an apron to Daytona in the I-Rock race. You remember that way? What happened? He blocked Dad. Davis was running an I-Rock race. He blocks Dad down into the apron.

Dad spin sideways down. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then they got after, they, Daddy spun him out after the race, and then they had a little conversation. Nice.

Love it. A little Earnhardt Kieverer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eddie was a great guy. I mean, in, yeah. He, I was, he, in one race, he crashed out

three generations of Andretti's in one race. He's the only guy ever to do that. I love Eddie. He's a great guy. Three generations. Oh, yeah, you got Marco, Michael, and Mario. He crashed them all out of a race

at one time or another. 96 through 99, you end up winning four consecutive championships with Vassar, Alex Zanardi, Juan Pablo. Yeah. Those were some days. Yeah. Back to back, you go back to Indy

for the 500 after the 96 RRL cart split to become the first win for that deal. Want to you. What kind of race car driver was Juan? I mean, I've always enjoyed being around him. Yeah, yeah. Such a unique kind of guy. He was in his younger, you know, when he was 20 to, probably 20 to 30, you know,

there was nobody faster. Yeah. I mean, if you just, you know, if you just got the car close, he made up for the rest. I mean, you know, you'd say, what's the car, how's the car, how's the car, okay? What do you need? And I'd say, it's okay, it's okay. I'd say, what? So he was, you know, the engineer would just, you know, put a setup on the car and he just drove it, man.

I mean, the guy was just fast and, you know, fearless and fast. And, you know, he had some great, great, blindingly fast races. And he was a quick learner at tracks. He won Michigan the first time out, you know. He and Michael had a. big battle with the end of the Michigan 500. He'd never seen the place and he won the race. And, you know, he was just incredible.

Just incredible as a driver. You ended up bringing him to NASCAR. Yeah. And that actually was one of the few times when that transition actually works. Right, right. And how do you think he feels about his NASCAR career? Yeah, I think he's okay with it. You know, like we, to be quite honest,

know, that was one of our greatest years as a team. You know, for the, like, we weren't putting, were our cars good? Our cars were good. Were they great now? Yeah. And so we were, you know, there were better cars out there in those days than he, than I was given him to drive.

I always felt, like, amazed that we had an F-1, you know, talent that was now a part of our world, and he fully committed. Like, he was fully into it. You know, what was interesting about him was. you know, he didn't grow up in Europe. A lot of those Formula One guys grew up in Europe. So they, like, it's home for them. That's what they grew up thinking about being, wanting to be, you know.

He was from South America and Miami, you know what I mean? And he just, he didn't have that draw to Europe, you know, that he wanted to be in Europe, Europe, Europe, Europe all the time. You know what I mean? He just wanted to be home at night. Remember when I talked to him the first time, he said, oh, man, I'd love to do NASCAR. He goes, I can go home on Sunday nights. He says, I never get home in this Formula One, I never get home. And he was starting to have kids.

And, you know, like he said, I'd love to do it, man. I'll come do it. He goes, let's go. What's the fan base like, for Juan? So, like, you know, Rick would always give me a hard time about my fan base, and I know Juan's got some passionate fans. Yeah. As an owner, does that play into anything,

or do you feel any effects of that in terms of, like, trying to please a very passionate group of people that are pulling for this driver you've got I'll just tell you this I'll just tell you this okay how many years ago was that with Montoya was you know that was 2000 right so that's what 23 years ago right and and and and and you know so he drove with us in Indy cars and then NASCAR whatever okay I I built a house in Naples Florida finish it up last year. Get a cleaning lady there. Cleaning lady is from Columbia.

I go to, someone who introduced me to her, it's their cleaning lady. They said, hey, you got to hire this lady for your house. You know, I said, okay, great. I go meet her. She said, Ganesi. I said, yes. She said, Montoya. I said, yeah. She goes, oh, big fan. And I said, okay, great, you know, so it was like

we hit it off right away. That's amazing. You know, so, yeah, I mean, so you tell me, you know, 23 years later, it's still, you know, it still fires, You know. Hey, so go back, why start a NASCAR team, by the way? What led to that? Yeah, well, I, I, every year, you know, I don't know why this is,

but every year that you're in IndyCar racing, since I've been in it every year, you know, you get that question, everybody, you know, you're racing, you're going along, and everybody, all of a sudden somebody looks at it and they go, Chip, how's IndyCar racing doing? You know. Ah. And I'm like, fine. You know, fine. Why do you ask?

Well, you know, it's, you don't know. And so there was a lot of turmoil in those days. There were some public divorces, right? Right. There was the split and there was this and there was that. And when you, when you, when you, you know, and I just thought to myself, you know, I had this commitment to all these people and, you know, and I liked going to races. I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed the aspect of being there, being in the pits, being with the team, being on I enjoy that team atmosphere, that team player kind of thing. And, you know, there was some question as to what the future of IndyCar racing was going to be right around 2000 there. And so, and I realized all the same people in those days that were putting the money into IndyCar racing were the same guys, especially like the car, the factories, you know, the Chevroletes, the Fords. Toyota, those guys, they were all, they were all the same guys. You know, I'd see him here and say, hey, you know, help me on Indycars. What do you don't know? I can't come to IndyCar race and I'm going to NASCAR next week.

You know, and I'll be like, what are you going over there? Well, we do this with that team. We do this. We do that. We do that. We do that. And so I just thought, you know, it's the same people supplying the fuel, if you will, to the sport, you know, meaning the money, you know, is the same people supplying that

fuel to NASCAR that we're supplying it in IndyCar racing. And so I thought, man. man, you know, like, I could, I can do that, you know, and I knew some people in it, you know. What was the biggest hurdle then? Did you feel like you had to start a shop in North Carolina as opposed to India? I mean, like, you knew that you had to do that stuff, right? No, I never thought about doing it in India or anything. So then is it to find a partner?

Is that the first step? Find it. I mean, not necessarily find a partner, but I found a good one. But, you know, is this find an entry point. Okay. You know, find some insertion point, if you will, like how to, you know and I my first my first my first experience was really with Ricky Rudd I I flew into Statesville one day and he drove me all around we were just talking about the business

and he was trying to get out of it at the time he was he was kind of up to here with it for whatever reason and and um you know so I remember talking to him first and then and then I had known Felix over the years like before that we did some stuff with I was with I was in the movie smoking and the bandit three. And it was being filmed here in Monroe, North Carolina, and it was myself, Richard Childress, Neil Bonnet, and Stan Barrett. And Stan hired us to beat a stuntman,

and we were driving police cars, you know, dressed as the cops with the glasses and the sticks and the boots. And I got a great side story there, I'll tell you in a minute. But so, and I rented Felix's plane to get to the race that weekend, which was in Elkhart Lake,

Wisconsin or something. I remember I rented his plane. So I knew Felix. You knew people and everything. So I called him up with that. I say, Felix, I'm thinking about getting into NASCAR. You know, what do you think? He goes, hey, he goes, buy my team. And I said, what? It was Sabco. Yeah, yeah, it was Sabco. You know, it was right over here in, on the other side of the freeway on exit 30s. Oh, is over in the business parking. Where we're front row, where front row is now. Most of where, yeah, most of the teams were there. Oh, wow. Right. That was, Felix built that building you know where front row is me and dad or you know dad lived on the lake about mile and a half from that that complex okay yeah yeah just across from the best buy now

okay but so he just casually says yeah we sat down and I said you know I said hey I'd like to get involved and you know da da da da I mean it took us 10 minutes we made a deal I literally took us 10 minutes and you know he had Coors as a sponsor he had yeah so what does he give you a price and you're like, oh, that's a good price. I mean, you know, I said, No, no, no, we, I talked to him in this, you know, I forget he gave me a number, you know. How much percentage did you buy?

I bought 80%. 80% of the team. Oh, wow. Yeah, about 80% of the team. Yeah, about 80% of the team. Damn it. And did he try to say, because like, man, I mean, when you're selling a stock car team, it's pennies on a dollar, man, for like physical.

Yeah, but he had a building. He had a nice building. Yeah, he had some buildings. The building and the land's worth something, but not all. All these stuff in here, shit. You can't sell this to nobody? Right, right, right. So he had sponsors.

He had a building. He actually had two buildings, two buildings over there. He had the buildings, had the land, had a suite at Charlotte, had, you know, had a motorhome, had, you know, there was some hard assets there that you could come up to about, you know, maybe $5 million, $6 million worth of stuff. So what did you pay him for 80%? I think I paid $6 or $7 million. That's a pretty deal, actually. Yeah, yeah. But wait, wait, wait, going back to Dale's first question, because this is fascinating.

We're now in the negotiating room. I'm getting a little insight into the two power players, Chip Ganassi and Felix Abbottis. Are you guys, are you guys like writing numbers on paper and sling across the table? No, no, we're not slam back to. We're just scribbling, though. You know, and I remember he wanted, you know, I remember what he wanted more, you know, for his team. And I remember saying, okay, I'll tell you what I said, you keep 20 percent. Take 20 percent off.

You keep 20 percent, you know. Yeah. I pay you the same number. you just keep some... Yeah. Now you're stuck in this marriage with me. Right. Exactly.

Exactly. I like that. Do you guys have your people in the room with you? Is it just you too? No, no, no. It's just us. Oh, what an awesome situation is it. It was great.

I love it. Yeah, we had a great time together. We had a hell of... And I couldn't have come in with anybody. I mean, you know, it worked that well because... Philly's didn't know anything about racing. It so worked that well. Yeah, he was good at finding the money,

and I was good at racing. So it worked that well, yeah. What was the side store at the band? Yeah, right. Oh, the side story is, and you asked Richard this, he'll tell you. So, you know, when you're doing these films, a lot of downtime. You know, we're out there dressed as cops with the hats and the glasses and the sticks and the guns and the boots. Myself, Childress, Neil Bonnet, Stan Barrett.

And we're in front of some shopping center, strip center over in Monroe, Louis, or Monroe, North Carolina. And Childress and I are standing there. like the second or third day, you know, and we're sitting, or you're staying around. When next shot's at 4 o'clock and it's 1.30. You know, we're like, you know, 89 degrees and you're outside and, you know. Why are you doing this? Well, I'm just doing it because Stan Barrett was a friend and, you know, we're having fun, you know.

We're all, four of us are all laughing and having fun and giggling. So I said to Rich, I said, come on, let's have some fun here. Let's do it. We got a black and white police car. We're dressed as cops. Let's have some fun, you know? So the shots going on over that way about two, three hundred yards, and we're over here. And I said, come on to have some fun.

So we hop in the black and white car, flip the lights on. And we pull over some lady driving a Corvette, and she has a number three license plate on the front of her car. We pull her over, and I walk up and I tap on the window with a stick, you know. I said, ma'am, I said, excuse me, can you roll your window down? I said, yes, sir. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I said, I said, ma'am, can you see you're in the middle of a, we're trying to shoot a film here. I said, you're in the middle of the set.

I said, you can see all these trucks around. You can see there's a set going on. You dropped, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And Childress says, he goes, you a Dale Earnhardt fan? She said, well, well, no. I mean, yes. I mean, no, my son is. My son is.

And I said, okay, I said, well, he said, okay, he said, well, okay, that's good. And we said, okay, you can just keep driving now, man. Go right ahead. That's so funny. Yeah, so we were like pulling people over, you know, being cops, yeah. Probably a law against that, by the way. They're probably a law against that now. He's probably frown on that.

Ask Richard that story when you see him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the story about the New York City Grand Prix? You wanted to put a race in downtown, right? Yeah, racing around the base of the World Trade Center. So I was partners with IMG at the time. We had the Grand Prix of the Meadowlands. So that's right across the river there.

So we ran the Meadowlands race for two or three years there. And we wanted to move it into. The whole idea of getting involved with that race was to move it into the city. There was a guy Bud Stanner there that ran their motorsports. Great guy passed away about a year ago. He was Mark McCormick's motorsports guy. We had 27 meetings in New York with Mayor Dinkins. My gosh.

Mayor Dinkin's office, we had 27 meetings. And we had Marlboro. as a sponsor. And I remember those guys kept, like we were, I remember one day vividly being on top of the World Trade Center. And the guy saying, you know, you got to be careful, you know, we have these things here.

You don't want to have an event. And I kept thinking, we want to have an event here. You know, he said, no, you don't know what I'm talking about. I mean like an event. I go, what do you mean an event? He goes, well, like a terrorist act or something. I go, well, we're not going to have one of those. Oh, wow. And I remember we're talking about that. Like they, and then

And yeah, we had the approval. We had the sponsorship. We had the approval from the city. And then in the 1159 of the 12th hour, you know, IMG said, we're not doing this. We're, you know, it's just too much work. It was too expensive to put a race on that was going to be a two-day show. It was going to be like 10 times more than any to put any other race on, you know, with the police and this and this and that, all these things you had to do.

With all of that information, what is your, like, what's your opinion of the Chicago street course race that NASCAR is going to do this year? You know, I haven't really been following it that much. I mean, I know they're going to have one, and I wish them well. I think it's a, you know, it's a good market, you know, that can happen. I mean. What do you think? It'll be NASCAR's first street race. Yeah.

As a guy who understands street racing. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, bad mouth. anybody's ideas or anything like that. I mean, I think it's, you know, I just think there's so much good racing that goes on in NASCAR at some great tracks. I don't think they have to go. I don't know that they, I don't know that that puts on a good race, you know, like I. What is the, what is the, and I got, by the way, I got in trouble the other day for saying

the Formula One doesn't put on good races, you know, like, yeah, I said. Got in trouble with who? Well, you know, people on Twitter and everything, you know, like, I mean, I, like, I just think, like, all I'm saying is, like, they're on track. racing. The product itself. I'm not talking about the people, the mechanics, the shows, the sponsors, this. I'm just talking about the racing itself on track is not great racing. It's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it, you know, and and I can't be shocking to people. Right. We all

see the same race. We all see the same race. What is the opinion? What is, where do you like, you know, some people have different, some people like different types of racing, right? No question. Where does street racing rank in the IndyCar world for you? Like what is your opinion and appreciation for street car street racing versus a true traditional purpose built road course? Go back to what I was saying earlier about Formula Fords. If you have a car that has the right balance of power and tires and downforce and stick and all that stuff, you have the right balance of a car you can put on a good road race, okay, or a good street race.

Yep. Okay. Again, if you have the wrong balance, you know, like, I think, you know, when you get into a street race where there's walls, okay, you can't have a finish like you had at Cota the other. You know, or how many finishes did they have there? You know, you can't have all those. They're still having finishes.

You know, because the track will be blocked. Yeah. You know, so I'm a little bit concerned about that. You know, but again, I mean, hey, you know, like over the, one thing I've learned about, one thing I've learned about NASCAR was I question a lot, I question a lot of things they've done over 20 years. You know what I mean? The fact of the matter is, not too many of them I could go look back and say that was a bad decision. You know what I mean? A couple here and there, you know, but, I mean, but for the most part, good.

So if they bring some new people in or they bring some new fans, hey, great, I don't, I don't know how you. you measure that or what it's going. I mean, I measure it by how many people want to get involved in the sport. That's my little, you know. That's your eye test. That's my eye test. Yeah. Yeah.

How many people want to be involved? So, I mean, yeah. I'm excited about it. I, you know, I don't know what I'm going to see. Yeah. But it'll be, everything's cool the first time. Sure. You know?

I agree. And I also appreciate your opinion about, you know, there's a lot of great racetracks and a lot of great places we can be going, but we'll see how it goes. Yeah. It just seems. like a ton of work to put it together. Oh, yeah. That will ultimately, just like in...

That'll determine, I think, it's survival. Those races are, you know, because I promoted a couple of races here and there, and I mean, those street races are expensive to put on. Yeah. You know, you build the track and then you take it down, and you build it and you take it down. Just like this dirt track at Bristol, I don't know why Marcus wants to spend all that money to put dirt on this thing.

I mean, and it was a very cool the first time. it's going to continue to be cool but less cool each time, right? Eventually, the pendulum swings, right, toward now this shit ain't worth it. Right. You know, you think about all the great races at Bristol and, you know, like, that ain't one of them. Yeah. I mean, the dirt truck goes in one of them, I don't think now. I mean, maybe I'm wrong.

It's a novelty. I don't get it's a novelty. See the car is racing on dirt, but otherwise it's not the race, it's not as good as what we'll see there later this year in August. Yeah, yeah, right. Maybe just making money that we don't account for. Maybe it's just a good business to see. Yeah. And he didn't need to tell us that.

You know, again, I go back to what I said earlier too. It's like, isn't it great that that's even in the discussion? Yeah. That there's put the dirt on asphalt. Remember, like I said, 20, 30 years ago, we were just going around in circles. Happy to be going around circles and see you next week, you know. And now we've got all this other stuff. I want to ask you about the merge with the EI.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So what made you want to do that? How did that come about? Who called you? Who'd you call? Yeah. You know, Max Siegel, you know. I think they were in a situation where, you know, as I look back on it now, they were in a situation where you had, you know, Max and Teresa. And they weren't, they weren't operators of racing teams. You know what I mean? They didn't, they weren't operators of a team. I mean, they could come up with the money or whatever. But they weren't. they didn't know how to run a race team, I don't think, at the time. And that was right at the crash, you know, when there was like a financial crisis and a crash. And, you know, and, you know, somehow Steve LaLetta, who was with me at the time, he got a whole, he was talking to Max Siegel. And Max said, you know, why don't you guys take over running our car? We have these contracts with Bass Pro and with Martin.

And want to you guys just take that over and give us a little something for running that. and we'll take care of Martin Martin had a huge contract at the time to drive and and I said I can't I can't take that on you know and they said no we'll take care of that I said okay and they said we'll give you the sponsor and you know you just run the car and I was happy to do that because I just lost Wrigley's I think I think I had Rigglies at the time and Rigglies was going away so I needed to patch fill in the car you know and to keep all my guys going and that's kind of what happened And, you know, I didn't realize at the time I was getting in the middle of a, you know, like a family feud or something there. All of a sudden, I'm going, what the hell is.

Oh, nine. Yeah. The feud was over. I didn't know that, you know, I didn't know that. Was there a few? But, like, yeah, what, was there more feuding than were even away of half? Yeah, because I don't know. I mean, you know, it's like, there was all these questions and everything all the time.

I was going like, well, what about this and what about that? You know, like, I just didn't want to be involved in any of that. I just wanted to go racing. You want to be like, I'm not in. You ended up. in a Jerry Springer episode and you had no idea. I had no idea. And, you know, that was pretty much it.

You know, like I didn't, you know, we were just trying to, like, again, that was one of those periods where, hey, I was either going to have to lay off, you know, 150 guys or something or 100 guys or I was going to, you know, and that was the savior of that. Did you have to not, listen, I'm asking this question because I sincerely want to know. I don't want people to assume that I'm trying to dig here. No, no, go ahead. Dig whatever you want. How often did you interact with Teresa?

I'll tell you. I've talked to you guys more in the last 15 minutes than I've talked to her the entire time. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had lunch with her a couple times, and that's about it. Yeah. But did you need that?

Did you need to be able to have a relationship or even conversations, meaningful conversations with her for that operation to have succeeded? No. Was Max Siegel enough? Was the people around there? Max was enough. Max was enough, yeah, yeah. Max was enough. And I, you know, ten conversations with him and that was about it.

Was there a conversation with you guys on how to rebrand the race team and the name of it? Because didn't you guys change it to Earnhardt Gannasi racing? Yeah, I think that was just a, you know, I wasn't so hung up on having my name. Didn't care? I didn't care. I just wanted to be, I wanted to make sure I was there. I knew I was running it, so it didn't matter to me. You know, it was my team and, you know, it was my team, my people.

Yeah. So I didn't, it didn't bother me to put, you know, put the Earnhardt name on front of it. Yeah. Did it help? Did it contribute to anything competitively? I don't know. I didn't hurt. Didn't hurt.

Like what did they bring to the table? I mean, I'm trying to remember, honestly, Martin Truex was in the middle of a. There were some people that came, you know, at the time. Like, like, there was a kind of a split there of the people. I'm trying to remember. Steve Mill was one, remember? Steve Mill went to Ganescent. There's a handful of guys

that came over from DEI and then... Bono. Bono. Bono. Yeah. He was amazing. Yeah, good guy. Yeah, good guy.

He did. One in Indy for you. Yeah. So in 2021, you sell to Justin. So you knew Justin. Y'all had a great... Won a race. One at Midd Ohio.

Yeah. You had a great relationship. Yeah. you had some frustrations. You had made some comments about being NASCAR was mad about some protocols. You broke during the pandemic or something on Pit Road and said a little thing. And which I, you know, which I want to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just want to say like you weren't ever scared. You were never, you know, muzzled in how you felt about things. If you felt like this is silly, I don't like this. Why are we doing it this way? Why did this happen? you were always willing to sort of do that. And I think that sounds a little bit like a race car driver would talk. You know, I know you're a successful owner and a smart businessman,

but every once in a while, you talk like a driver. Right. Like Denny. Yeah. So, yeah. But I wonder, you know, it's more than likely coincidental that the frustrations from that and you selling the team are anywhere linked, but why would you sell?

Why would you leave? You know, good question. It's not like the team was for sale. It wasn't for sale. And I'll tell you what it came down to, Dale, at the end. I'm sitting there, and he calls me up on there, and he said, hey, I'd like to buy your team. And, you know, I was going to buy my business that day or something, you know,

and I'm kind of like, this is a wacky call, you know, like what? And I start thinking about it. And he said, how about, you know, how about we? He said, how much you want for it? I said, well, I got this much money. I said, well, that's not going to do it, you know. Think about it.

Go away and come back. Come back with some more money. And, and, and, and I started thinking about it. And then I remember thinking to myself, you know, I had had that team for 20 years. And, and, you know, up and down and up and down and up and down. And, you know, and I just remember thinking to myself, you know, in 20 years, no one's ever called and said they wanted to buy it. And I thought, man, I should look at this, you know?

Like, I should look at it, you know. Yeah. I got to look at it. If somebody wanted to buy it, I'm thinking, you know, I could, I remember my father had a business and he sold it. And a guy from a guy from Goldman Sachs in New York, I remember sitting in my dad's living room one night. And the guy said, Floyd, you can sell your business today for this amount of money. or you can wait 10 years and sell it for the same amount of money. And we can work for the next 10 years and sell it for the same amount of money.

And he goes, well, you're going to feel good about that? And he said, no. And I remember, I remember I'm saying, I'm thinking, if you ever have to sell, there's not always a buyer out there. Right. You know what I mean? Eager to take it. So, you know, and especially if these days with charters, you know,

and things, you get into a, you get into like a musical chairs kind of thing, you know, like you don't want, you know, you might say, you know, well, your charter's worth this and yours is worth that and his is worth this. I'm going to take his, you know, because his is, you're, your, you're, S-O-L, you know. And so, you know, I just thought, why didn't you? A new, in other words, with these charters, it creates a new market. Yeah. Why didn't you stay like part owner? Why did you leave entirely? We didn't want you to leave all, we didn't want you to just turn, you know, walk out the door and leave entirely.

didn't leave entirely. You know, I'm still in racing. I know, but not NASCAR. I could be here in a second. You know what I mean? I'll come. I'll come with you. You know, I'll come with you. You know, I don't know, like I don't, I don't, I wouldn't say I'd never come back or anything like that. Or I'm not, I'm not saying I'm gone forever or whatever. I mean, I, you know, I think, I think. I figured you were like, damn, I'm, I'm lucky to get out of that. Foo. Right. Right. That crosses your mind. It sounds like he saw the exit ramp and he's like taking it right now. No, no, I mean, like I still have the IndyCar team.

We still have, you know, it's MSA team. We've got a We've got a Weck team now in Europe. All of that stuff. I know, but it feels like I don't know shit about how to run those teams. Yes, you do. You do and you don't know. I know, but it seems like you, you know, your background and your DNA is in IndyCar and emsa. and you do have 20 years plus of NASCAR.

I want some big NASCAR, raised. I'm pretty happy what I did in NASCAR. You did. I got no complaints. I agree. But it wasn't your first love, okay? Yeah, but I loved it. It was good to me, and I think I was good.

I think I brought some good things to NASCAR. You did. Of course you did. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I'm not, yeah, I don't like that you left. Yeah, what we're trying to say is we miss you. I'm happy to come back. I mean, just somebody give us the right opportunity.

I'd come back. Okay. Okay, hypothetically, you bring it up. We'll just call this a hypothetical. Dale's looking for charters. We're just waiting for the price to come back to reasonable. How long should Dale Jr. wait, especially if y'all are going to be business partners, because I think that's what we're trying to say here.

You're going to go in and buy a cut team. You've got to wait until the deal you can't refuse. Right. Right. We know the numbers that are being thrown around right now. What should Dale do? I think there's numbers that are thrown around and then I think there's the real numbers. Yeah.

Yeah. So we should wait for the real numbers. Sure. Yeah. Do you think? Remember, like a charter, a charter's great, okay? It guarantees you, you know, two, three million, whatever it is now, you know, guarantees you call it $3 million or whatever of income or whatever.

Well, yeah, but you still got to come up with another 18 or something. You still got to come up with that. Still got to run the team. You got to wait until somebody can't come up with the 18, and then you'd be surprised what their charter's going to sell for, you know. 100%. So, well, this bubble burst and come back to reality after the, TV deal? I mean, like, when do you think that that...

Well, I don't think there's any question that if you look on a calendar on a time thing of years, you know, certainly if you look at the time of a TV deal, you know, at the beginning of a TV deal, the charters go like this, and then as you come to near the end of the TV deal, the charter goes like that. I'm not saying it's going to go like this. It just... Yeah. You know, maybe dip a little bit. I don't think that, you know, and again, it's just a matter of who knows what, you know, what NASCAR wants to hand out in terms of, you know, the handout into the teams at the end of the day.

Yeah, that's the ultimate, you know. I cannot wait to find out what they all determine, you know. Yeah. It's fascinating to it. It's fascinating. It's fascinating. How they, you know, it's, it's, and they're, you know, no question. question, you know, like with Bill

Jr., it was a, and still today is a benevolent dictatorship. And I like that. I don't have any problem with that. I like, I get along great with those guys. Yeah, you know, because is it fair to say these drivers, when they start getting Mouty and opinionated, we just

are reinforced for the fact that if they were running the asylum here, that it would just, they drive it into the ground? Well, I think this. Yeah, I mean, there's always that, there's always that argument that they are. But I mean, look, the flip side of that is you don't want a bunch of guys run around that

have no passion about things either. Yeah, there you know, you don't want the other end of the spectrum, the other end of the pendulum going the other way, you know. What do you think about, you know, when you watch Justin and what he's done, you know, what are your emotions about that? So. Couldn't be happier. Couldn't be happier.

But is it, is there, is there a part of you that sees what they're doing and kind of wishes that you were along for the ride? In a small way I am, you know. In a small way I am. I'm along for the ride. I just don't have any of the risk. Yeah. I got you.

I mean, I'm along for the ride. There's, you know, yeah. You are part of that story. I couldn't be happier for him. That's right. He reminds me of me when I met Felix. It's a very similar story. Yeah, it is.

Yeah. He reminds me of me. He's a driver. He tried to, you know, he tried to sort of create that sort of the same career path for him and had to make a transition. Right. Yeah. All right. So when you and Dale go into partnership together here for a cup team, who's your driver?

Who are we going to go after? Who's, who's the driver? going to wheel our car. Boy, you know, like, you look, I was just looking at that the other day, you know, like a couple, you know, you look down the list of, of, of drivers, and, you know, like, you look at Reddick the other day, you know, he won his first Bush race with us, you know,

whatever it is, Xfinery race, he won him with us, you know? Yeah. And Bowman, he had his first win with us. Like a lot of guys had their first wins with us. You know, now those guys are, you know, Kyle, of course, you know, Larson, of course. You know, you see those guys that had their, you know, and, you know, sure, would I have loved to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, you know, carry those guys along throughout their entire career? Absolutely.

But, you know, I don't, you know, I'm not, I don't have the wherewithal that, you know, Rick or Roger, those guys have, you know. How do you, so let's talk about the bandwidth of, of you and of Chip Ganassie racing. So, you know, you did have the NASCAR operation, but your IndyCar operation, your MSSA sports car stuff, how do you keep all that running so smoothly? How do you keep all of that happening at such a splendid success rate? You know what it is. Staying up there is tough. Getting there is tough, but damn, once you get it. get there, the ebb and flow, the thing I have problems with is our ebb and flow, like the ups

and downs. We will have, we had an amazing year last year. This year, we can't get shit going on. Right. You know, and we've done, that's happened. Our cars will, they'll lose a step. We'll have a year where we're a fifth place team. Then we'll go back and be, you know, run top three the next year. And so, but you, you know, have always had. No, we've had up and down years. Yeah. We've had up and down years. It's passion and it's people. That's all it is. You know, if everybody out there had the same passion that you and I did, they'd be fine, right? How do you keep good people? Because it gets competitive.

It gets competitive. The sport cannibalizes each other. These race teams go poached, don't they? Yeah, they do. They do. You know, we've all had it happen. I mean, I put everybody under contracts. I don't know any other way to do it.

I don't know, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. There's all, you know. That's right. I've now just triggered a memory. I remember there was a crew chief. I don't honestly remember who it was, but there was a crew chief that I think you had

that you and Rick were talking about trying to do some swap and you're trying to do this. And I don't even remember if it was for you or if it was somebody else. It was maybe the Junior Motors. I can't remember what it was. But like, yeah, it's like, you know, one year a crew chief all of a sudden, you know, hits five wins because this driver is just out of this world. I mean, like Kyle Larson, for instance. Yeah.

You know, Kyle Larson was a gannasi guy for all these years. Yeah. So it's like at the end of the day, you know when all of a sudden, you know you've got the hot girl at the prom and everybody's sitting there looking. Yeah, and then everybody starts shooting out. You know what I mean? Whether they're, you know, they either start picking your team apart or picking the, you know, spitting in the driver's ear. You know, everybody has that happen. I've had that happen plenty of times.

So Scott Dixon. Yeah. What kind of, I mean, we had him in here a couple of weeks ago. And it's like what? It's like Mario Andretti walking into the room when he was, you know, at the top of his game. Right. Guy's incredible. Yeah.

How lucky do you feel to be able to work with drivers like that? The luckiest. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know. How do you? That guy is that you couldn't, if you went to Hollywood, you couldn't, you couldn't write the script. Right.

People wouldn't believe you if you wrote that script, you know, about how he got started. You know, he had that consortium of people helping him. and helping him go. And, like, you know, yeah. How do you keep a guy like that around? I always, you know, I think, you know, I think the drivers that I've had good relationships with will tell you, I don't, I'm not one of these team owners that calls your drivers up all the time every day. How you doing? How you doing?

What are you doing? What are you doing? You know, like, I don't do that. I mean, I let them, you know, I used to say I let them Monday through Friday. They can do whatever they want to do. Just give me your time, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday or whatever. or whatever, you know, like when you're at the racetrack, just give me your time and your 100% effort.

You know, I'm like, I want them to be themselves off the track. I want them to have a little bit of, I don't want them to be like a robot. Yeah. You know what I mean? I want them to have some personality, and I want them to have a, have a personality or have a, you know, they don't always have to be like a Madison Avenue machine, you know. What kind of So, yeah, so like with Dixon,

are you going back to him? Well, no, I just kind of was wondering like, do you, what do you do with your drivers outside of, be at the racetrack? What do I do with them? Yeah. I give them good shit to drive. I know, but like,

okay, that's what I do. That's my thing, okay? I'm going to give you a good car to drive. That's what I work hard at. And, you know, because I wanted to always have a team that, like, I wanted my team to be, like a team that I would want it to drive for.

You know what I mean? Like, I wanted it to be what every driver would want it to have. Do you allow yourself to be close to them in a relationship? That's what I guess I'm trying to get to. Yes and no, you know, like I, yes and no. Like, I remember with Jamie McMurray, you know, we would talk about fitness, you know, and I said to him, and one of his, one of the deals I did with him, I bought him a whole gym for his house.

You know? And he's like, man, I can't believe he did that. You know, and like, here he is years later. He's like, Mr. bicycling, you know, Mr. Triathlon. Incredible shape. Running. It's an incredible shape now. I remember when I bought him his first, you know, weights in his house, you know,

to get him into fitness and things, you know what I mean? So, yeah, we laugh about that every once in a while. But, like, I mean, listen, the glaring, the glaring example on why not to get too close would be what you had to deal with with Alex, just a year ago, right? Yeah. Alex Polo. You guys, you were being poached, were you not? Yeah.

Okay, so what happens when you're being poached like that? You know what I do? I tell the guys on the team. I go, you know what? I don't want anybody on the team to flinch one bit about the car preparation. You just make sure we put a car out there that can win the race, and I don't want anybody to have any hiccups or question the driver's talent. And if, you know, I mean, if drivers don't appreciate that,

hey, fine, that's okay. Go somewhere else if it's that great, you know. Listen, I would have lost it. I lost the bet. I'm okay, but as long as we have a deal, you're going to live by the deal. Right. Like, I didn't know why it got so complicated in the fact that there was a deal in place. I don't know how another entity can go make an announcement when there was a deal in place.

Right. Right. You could probably, you know, yeah, you could go after him for interference of the contract. Sure. Sure. Yeah. How did you, I would have lost the bet that that would have ended well as well as it did. And yet it did.

How did that happen? You guys are still racing together and everything's good. You know, when you have a contract like that, it's real simple. Either someone's going to either, either, you know, either the, either the driver's going to drive the car or somebody's going to pay you a lot of money. One of the two. My question, right. Okay. My question is, is like, to Mike's point, like, I'm surprised that that worked out.

How did you not allow the relationship between you and the driver become? problematic because I just didn't I I I told them how I felt and I didn't let it and I mean you know it's as hard as it is to do like I don't I don't I don't negotiate in the newspaper if you will I don't you know I don't I don't you know that's a Monday through Friday thing not a Friday Saturday Sunday you just kept it real with him when y'all were in the room together in the room hey man I just want to win the race you know and I want to win the race and you know there's a little bit attention with him and the other drivers because they didn't want to, you know, they were a little nervous about giving him information or, you know, Honda was a little nervous about giving information

out or whatever, you know, so. Right. You know, but they all worked out in the end. And, you know, he won the last race at Laguna Seca, going away. Go and won the last race, like, off and gone. And, you know, you just don't do that if you're not, if you're not committed. I mean, the guy's a great race car driver. I don't take anything away from. You have had some, when I think about all of the drivers that have that have driven for you in all the series you have had just as wide a range of personalities

as they get. I mean, we've met Alex. We've now met Scott. But then we're going back, we had Sterling on the show this year. And I was, you know, listen. We were leading to points when Sterling got hurt. Everybody forgets that. No, no, I don't forget it. We were leading to points. I was working for Jimmy Spencer that year.

So you had Jimmy Spencer Sterling in the same barn, man. That was crazy. I love Sterling Marlin. Yeah. I love Sterling Marlin. But I never in my life would have thought Sterling Marlin would ever in his life be a contender or a threat to win a championship. He was like four or five races to go. He was in position.

That was his to lose before he got hurt driving your car. In the twilight of his career, I mean, literally. And when he was hurt, it wasn't like he was even hurt. You know, he had a broken neck. but he looked normal, talk normal, walk normal. He didn't look sick at all. He was fine.

He just had a crack in his neck that they wouldn't let him drive. Yeah. And I mean, I don't blame him for not driving. I'm just saying. Of course not. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like he was.

Well, the thing, I mean, listen, we could talk about struggling. My question I wanted to know is that do you find yourself having to, you know, almost like Taylor make your relationships with each of these drivers because they're so different, like Juan Pablo, and then, you know, McMurray, who's just easy to get along with, but then you got all the, yeah, right.

Or do you stick by, this is how I'm treating everybody? They're all going to be this, this is how we're going to do it. I'm going to have a very disciplined owner-driver relationship. No, no, no, no. Okay. Look, here's what I tell them. I go, look, I'm not, I told you earlier. I'm not the kind of guy that calls up every day.

Hey, yeah, how you're doing, I don't, you know. Like, and I just tell me, look, this is a real business. It's not, I don't have 200. car dealerships. I don't have, you know, I don't make the chassis. I don't build engines. I don't do this. This is my only business. This is it. Racing is it. It's got to work for me. Okay. So you have your personality. Be your personality. You know, be that way. Just give me your time Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or whenever and do the stuff you got to do in between, you know. And we'll be fine. We'll get along fine. I want to win. I just want to be at the front. I want

to put myself in a position to win. Obviously, you can't win a race, but you just want to put yourself a position to win. How do you do that? How do you run a race team as your sole source of income? Because I don't know that it's, I mean, I guess Joe Gibbs does that to an extent for sure. But that racing is a very challenging business model. Yeah. It's literally almost impossible to make it a profitable business. Almost. Yeah, almost. And to your point, you know, Rick and those guys, they have these other businesses and other lives, you know, going on that can help them in times when things aren't going well. But you've done this so long, and it's been your only source of income.

You know, what is the secret? You know what it's like. You've got to make tough decisions every once in a while. Yeah. You got to make tough decisions, and you've got to tell people, you go look them in the eye and tell them. You know, like I got chastised a couple times for laying people off, you know. or when that thing happened with the solar company. Oh, yeah, DC Solar.

DC Solar, thank you. Yeah, DC Solar. You know, I had to lay off an entire nationwide. Their X-Finity team, you know, I had to lay the whole team off like that. That was a tough decision, but that's what you got to do, you know what I mean? We had a good team. I had good guys.

That car ran at the front all the time. Oh, it did. You know? And I had to, it blew up one day. You know, and I'm still paying for that. Yeah. Yeah. So.

You're still paying for that emotionally? Well, and financially. And financially. Sure. Sure. Sure. You know, yeah. I mean, that, that, that, that, that, D.C. store thing just got put to bed 60 days ago.

Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. I mean, you, you've survived, you survived situations like that. It cost you a bunch of money. You've went through, you know. Hey, I lost, I lost a bunch of money with Frank.

Kiti trying to bring him to NASCAR. Yeah. That cost me a boat. Really? That's right. Dario coming to NASCAR. Remember he got hurt? Remember he broke his hand or foot or something at Talladega there?

Yeah. Yeah. How did you put yourself in a bad situation there? You know, he was, he was, I'm trying to remember. I mean, I mean, he was on the team, and he was driving for Michael. And, you know, he was kind of burnout driving for Michael, I think. wanted to do something else. I said, hey, why don't you give NASCAR a try, you know?

And I thought I had this sponsorship or I could come up with it, you know, and I didn't do it. Ah. But you made the dice, and I came up craps. You know, I crapped out. So you made the commitment to running before you had the dollars, and when the dollars didn't show up, you had to run him. Right. And so he goes and ends up, you know, kind of flaming out. Right.

Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. So, and you survived national. To make it up for him. And then I brought him back as an Indy car driver, and we won the championship in a couple times, so it worked out well.

He's a good dude. Yeah. You should have him on the show. I should. We should. Yeah. That's a great idea. You know, can you bring up something?

I'm sorry, this is something else I would just would love to ask since you're here at our table. But listen, when we talk about sponsorships, your story and Target story are synonymous. I don't know if there is a longer-tenured sponsorship relationship. Yeah, like 26 years or something. Yeah. It was an amazing run. It was great. Thank you.

How did it? do you do that? How do you do it? And I don't know about like, you know, giving up trade secrets. I know you may say relationships, but listen, from the start to the, you brought them to NASCAR. And then when you, you had this amazing relationship with the same sponsor. How does one do that? I tell our people all the time. I go, when the sponsors call up on the phone, here's your two answers you have. Okay and yes. That's only two answers you're allowed to have when they, you know. And just take care of them. I don't know. I don't know any other way. But when CEOs change or retire.

I went through a couple of them, and then I finally got the one that didn't like it, you know. Is that what happened? Yeah, that's what happened, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter what happens all up until that point. You just get the wrong person or, you know, the wrong budgets and all that. It just kind of goes away, right?

But you have had some... And then you know, we have people like PNC come along and, you know, and they picked the ball up and run them with it with Dixon. And, you know, people like the American Legion come along. and, you know, so it's great, yeah. Is this sport still too reliant on the corporate dollars and the corporate sponsorships? I mean, I guess the charter system was kind of an attempt

to try to balance that out a little bit. But like, do you have to have it out? Yeah, I don't know about balancing out, but it'll smooth it out. I got it. Smooth out the, instead of this, you might have that, you know, like, you know. But is it, as long as we're this reliant, is anything going to really change? I mean, like the business model in itself,

I mean, we got to have the corporate dollars, right? Is there any other way to do it? Not that I know of. I mean, you know, not that I know of. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a business that I think you've got to have some passion for it because the risk is that much and the reward is this much. You know what I mean?

So it's a high risk, low reward business. And that's the model that has to, you know, that should change. You know, whether it could or will, who knows, I'm not, you know. Well, gosh, where does we go? I want to keep him here. I want him, I want to go ahead and start laying out the blueprint to the new cup team we're starting. Yeah, I got, there's only, I got two. Go ahead.

I got, there's only two. So I didn't, I'm not 100% sure I ever want to be a cup owner. Why not? I don't know. I'm not 100% sure. Sometimes it sounds awesome. Sometimes it sounds like a lot of responsibility. But my point, I didn't want to, I'm not.

trying to make an I'm not trying to go there but uh my point is is there's two things that are dreams of mine uh that I'd like to do one of them is to field a car for the Daytona 500 as an owner right I want to I want to be an owner with a car in the Daytona 500 once in my life right that would probably be that that's a box that I want to check rather than just becoming an owner right long term and I'd have I have the same dream as to be an owner that fields a car in the N8500. It's unwritten, well. He said, come on.

You talked about being a kid and having dreams and wondering whether, you know, never, never, never imagine them becoming reality. Right. But I'd love to know the emotion of putting a car on the grid for those two races as an owner. You've done. Yeah. I mean, and winning them and winning it. I can't even imagine winning them.

but tell me as an owner, you've done both, and you've won both. Yeah. So tell me what kind of satisfaction comes with that. And I know there's a lot of responsibility, but there's got to be, I am so proud. The proudest moment for me is when we push our cars out to the grid. Right. That is an amazing moment. I stood on that grid at Indy.

It is insane, the feeling down there. Okay. So first of all, when you look at, you look at, what it takes to put a car in the Daytona 500 or the Indianapolis 500, okay? It takes this much to put a car in those races. It only takes another 30 to 40% to go the rest of the year. Yeah. You know what I mean?

By the time, you know, you need a... You know what I mean? You need a building. You need the trucks. Oh, yeah. You need the hotel room. I'll never forget this. Roger Penske, when I was, I was like, before I went to you,

indie my rookie year. Somebody knew, my dad knew somebody that knew Roger and he was going to put him on the phone with me and, you know, I was going to, I was, because we were trying to decide at the time whether to buy this team, Jack Rhodes, the team I was with, they were, they were trying to buy, they didn't know whether to buy a Wildcat chassis that was an 81 wildcat. He could have bought a Gurney Eagle, which was $85,000 for a chassis. Without a motor, it was 85,000. Complete car. That was that Gurney Eagle. Remember that thing with the one that Mike Mosley drove, the Pepsi Challenge?

Remember that car with the little nose and the big tail on it? Remember that thing? I want to Google it here. Yeah. Or you could buy a Penske PC7 that was $75,000. So it was $10,000 less. And I remember, or a wildcat, which was $75,000 or something. And I remember, so I was going to get Roger Penske on the phone.

He's going to tell me something. And he told me something I'd never forget. This will resonate with you instantly. He said, you know, Chip, he said, whether you buy my PC7 or you buy that Gurney Eagle or you buy the Wildcat, he said, the hotel room costs exactly the same. Yeah. And, you know, you think about what he said there, okay? Think about that. That's a big statement because, you know what?

That building out there, the lights on in the shop, the lights are on. They don't know what kind of car is under there, okay? The lights are on, right? Those people walking around that you're paying out there to work on those cars, they cost the same whether you're running the X-FINITY car, you're running a cup car. Sure. I mean, you've got so many of your costs that are exactly the same.

And then you have so much sunk costs to do the Daytona 500 or the Indianapolis 500. You might as well do it for a whole year. What are you going to do? You're going to get a bunch of people to come down for one race? You're going to get anybody any good that's going to come for one race and work with you? I mean, you're not going to get anybody good for one race. You've got to make a commitment to them, you know. Yeah.

So, you know, I mean, it's not that, you know, you should be in the big show. You're Dale F. Jr. Okay. You should be in the big show. Yeah. Okay. Come on.

We're trying. Okay. Trying to get people to come off of that idea of what that charter's worth. You'll get there. You'll get there. Just keep, you watch. They're in the fantasy world right now. When they come to you faster than you think.

Don't worry. It'll come to you faster than you think. It's funny, man. We had some opportunities in the past that were. insane to imagine now, you know, what we passed on. But just just get your foundation put together underneath all that. And when it comes time, you know, the, you know, you get so many of your things, it's exactly the same amount of time.

Sure. In the, you know, you got to devote to the pit lane. It's the same amount of time, you know, on the track, you know. I mean, it's maybe the races are a little bit longer. Okay, great. You know, you do more stops, you know, okay, whatever. So it's, yeah, you know, I mean, I encourage you to do it. I encourage Jimmy, you know, I talked to Jimmy about car ownership, Jimmy Johnson, you know, like, and I said, man, you should get into it.

You should do it, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll, it's more, it's, it's, it's. Me and him are on the Zoom calls nearly close to teaming up before he chose to go to the legacy deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were, I was like, let's do it together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wish I'd have known that. I'd have told you to do it. We were going to call it junior Johnson racing. That's kidding.

That's good. That's good. That's good. I talked to junior one. You know, it's ironically, I talked to him way back when I was thinking of it. Really? Because he was, yeah, he was the deal. Yeah, he was the deal. Yeah, he was the deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, man, we appreciate you coming today. It's been fun. What an honor to be here. It's an honor to be here. It's honor for us to have you.

Come on. It is. Man, we know you could have been anywhere, but you mean so much to motorsports. You mean a lot to NASCAR. I'm glad to hear that your door is always open that you might end up walking back through it. You never know. You never know.

You never know. Congratulations on a legendary career. I know you got more to do and you got more to win and your position. I'm really lucky. I'm lucky and I got good people around me. That's all it takes. It's really, really incredible what you've been able to do. And you've affected so many people's lives, so many people from mechanics on the shop floor,

drivers, engineers, sponsors. You've influenced all of motorsports and such a policy. positive way. Thank you. And so it's such an honor to be able to talk to you and thanks for giving us some time today. Anytime, man. Thanks. Appreciate it, Mike. Chip Canassi on the Dale Jr. Download. Man, I'm really excited to have Ally help us bring the guest segment every week. It's one of my favorite parts of the

download. We get to talk to so many different people in racing, outside of racing. But everybody that comes in here, I want them to have had a good time. I want them to want to come back. I want them to feel like an ally to Dirty Mo Media. Thank you, Ally, for your continued support of the download and the entire Dirtymo Media team. Check out Dirtymo Media.

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