The Dale Jr. Download - 444 - Bill Davis - An Eye For Talent

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

Dale Earnhardt Jr. and co-host Mike Davis sit down with the man behind the famed #22 Caterpillar NASCAR Cup ride, Bill Davis. After helping Mark Martin as he came through the American Speed Association ranks, Bill went on to form a long-running race team that fielded cars in all of NASCAR’s top-three divisions. On the back of his successful Arkansas-based trucking company, Bill first entered the Xfinity Series ranks on a limited basis with Martin behind the wheel. Their quick success proved he had what it took as an owner, and despite Martin having to focus on his Cup racing endeavors, he convinced Bill to move to North Carolina and pursue a full-time chauffeur.Bill explains that the driver he sought out came in the form of Jeff Gordon, who was making the transition from the sprint car world as a promising prospect. He also gives insight to how Gordon’s 1993 departure from the team led to a young Bobby Labonte inquiring about the ride, and how he came to end up fielding the well-known #22 Maxwell House car that was forever associated with Junior Johnson. Download listeners will get a master course in what it is to own a large-scale operation in NASCAR, as Bill details the ebb and flow of his organization and why it came to an end after the 2008 season Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is a production of Dirtymo Media. There he is. Come on in here, buddy. Have a seat. Hey, everybody. Glad you tuned in. It's time for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. Mike Davis, Dellenhart Jr.

The Bojangl Studio. Got a great guest today. Well, how you doing, Rhiz? I'm doing fine right now. This is every week, okay, Bob. live. You died on that hill. Your career died on that hill and you were

heartheaded. I was a bigger idiot. I didn't even think about it. You thought about it and didn't ask it. That makes me the bigger idiot. I think so. Hey everybody, welcome back for another episode. It is Wednesday, May the 3rd, and it is time for our allied guest segment, Mike. Mike Davis, my co-hosts is here in a Bojangal studio. Mike, are you ready? man I'm looking forward to this. Bill Davis comes up a lot because he's had so many drivers racing for him over the years. So his name comes up a lot when we've had it. We're like, hey, we need him on.

Well, we want to thank Ally for supporting our program here at Dirtymo Media. They do so much in the NASCAR world. And we're thankful for them, thankful for partners like Ally that want to do so much in the industry. But they bring us our guest segment every single week. I admittedly have not spent a ton of time talking. to Bill Davis in my life. He's well respected, and I had plenty of years where we were in the same place at the same time, but I just did not get to know him.

So I'm thankful for Ally for bringing us this opportunity to be able to sit down with Bill, talk it out. There's so much that happened in his career as an owner, and a lot of highs and some lows. We're going to talk about it all. Let's get him in the room. Yeah, have a seat, put on some headphones, got you some water right there. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. Yeah.

Where are you been? I've been in Arkansas. You've been, you've been M-I-A. Well, we went home. Yeah. Went back to the truck and company, cattle ranch, and just happy as it wouldn't be.

Yeah. You've owned a truck and company your whole life pretty much. This will be our 49th year. Yeah. So what's the truck company do? It haulsed produce out of California and pharmaceuticals back.

Yeah. Is it growing bigger now than it was then? It's about the same. It's worth for what it's kept in the same. How many trucks you got, do you know? 50 to 60. We never wanted to be great big. Yeah.

You know, we want to be in a little bit of control. The stuff that we haul is the farmer's circles, that's real intense. It's worth a lot of money. Yeah. You've got to have tremendous control over. Be smart about it. I don't think a big truck would do a very good job with it. I got you.

A huge large truck. How long were you into Catabahs? About 24, 25 years. What's that all about? Oh, it's good. We raise Brangis, have two sales a year, sell about 300, 350 bulls, 100, registered females, and, gosh, I guess, 600 commercial heifers. Yeah, man. So it's a pretty good size business.

Where is that located? Baseful. Okay. We're actually a little ways out of town, a little town called Concord. Okay. And everything's there. So you're spending all of your time in Arkansas?

Yeah. Pretty much. We've got to play seven of the Blue Ridge at Lake Toxway, just out of Asheville by Vard. And in fact, we came over there a day before yesterday, brought the coach and got set up. Okay. You drive it?

Mm-hmm. So that explains, guess how you got your starting racing with Mark Martin in the ASA series being out there in Arkansas. How did you meet Mark? Our fathers were very good friends. Mark's, I guess, probably five years younger than I am or so. And when he started racing on the local dirt track, two dirt tracks, my dad and I went along and, you know, tried to help. Yeah.

We were what free help's worth. For nothing? It's not word nothing. No. This seems to be consistent with just about everybody. You know, you've got to volunteer. You've got to do something. Certainly we've heard about these grassroots people just trying to get out there at the racetrack and help people.

When you talk about helping, you're like, you know, just going and, you know, torquing tires and physically getting the car on and off the trailer and just piddling like that. Right. And so you helped him around 1978. He wins the championship in ASA 78, 79980. You were around most of that? Yeah. Yeah. Not as much as later when he came down south.

Yeah. We came down in 81 and ran those five races. So you were part of that deal. Did you when you... Part is just help. Right. Unpaid help, by the way. Right.

You're just volunteer. I'm so waiting for that check. I'm sure it's in the mail. You're just a volunteer help. So people see you as an owner and a businessman, but at this point in your life, when you're going to the racetrack with Mark, you're physically just a mechanic,

you know, it's a helper, right? Oh, yeah. Even when we were a cup racing, I still worked on the cars. Okay. Did engine work, not engine work,

but put them in and out and change gears, whatever. So, Mark moved to North Liberty, Indiana, began working out at Dillon's shop, who was a chassis builder back then.

You started traveling up there to help out. you talked about when Mark got into his first opportunity at cup racing he had a car that they built in 1981 and come down and run then he eventually signs with jd stacey to drive the two car my dad left that team in 81 and jd was fielding cars with mark i think he had joe rutman in the car time or two um tim richmond would drive it um you stepped away from racing at that time you're not Even were you not going to the dirt track in Arkansas or nowhere? No, they were really a place for us.

You know, we followed racing, of course, and my dad and Julian Mark's dad would come to his races. Yeah. But pretty much took those, what, three years off, I guess. And did, is it in you, did you have any idea at that time around 1982, 83 that you were going to get involved as much as you did? No, I never knew I didn't. Right. That was never even a dream.

It was going to be a hobby. No, we, you know, when Mark got the chance to come back down there with the Lawmaster deal with David Levin-Doll, who had been his brother-in-law, to run the full schedule in the 31 car, I think it was. Yeah, that Ford in the Bush series. Only one. Yeah.

We, Larry Shaw, the chassis builder from Bethel, that helped Mark early on, we built an ASA All-Pro car. I don't know if you'll remember, but they had a deal where the All-Pro series was down south ASA, and they combined for, I think it was seven races. So Mark wanted to run those seven. He said, you need to be the car owner. Okay. That's good to me.

So Larry built the car, we built the car, and ran those races, and ran well, ran real well. Is you need to be the car owner in a way of saying you need to pay for stuff? That's kind of how that works. Okay, got it. Especially with Mark. Yeah. Okay, okay. Like I said, that chick's still the mail.

So, do you remember what this car look like? The ASA car, oh, it was the ugliest brown car you've ever seen. A brown car? Classically ugly. Yeah. Is that the one? What was the stripes to sponsor? ASI. The Roofing Company of America. It was a Ford, wasn't it? Yeah. That was a rough-looking car.

Oh, it was terrible. It was brown, wasn't it brown? No, very. Yeah. It looks like a UPS truck. Yeah, it's like a UPS truck. It was about as crude. Yellow and orange or something, stripes as far as a sponsor on it, and it was unique. If you've got a hell of a memory, you see a picture right. I remember it's dumb as shit. I don't know why.

I don't know why I don't, I can't remember, you know, I have to think hard about like my, you know, my mother's birthday and things like that. But I can remember silly stuff like that. That's a bad memory. Yeah. So you built this car over the phone. So you're calling Mark, who's up there working Dillans and y'all are, he's telling y'all what to do and how to get this thing ready. Well, actually, yeah, he was, he was down here driving. Oh, he was out here racing and, yeah.

driving the I guess that was the only year he won, ran the full Bush schedule. Yep. 81. Okay. And we ran those races. In 87, actually. I mean, 87. Yeah.

You helped Mark enter the Bush and National ranks again in 88, 13 races with a Carolina Ford dealers. That's kind of the very first time that you become an owner. in one of the top three series in NASCAR. Right. And y'all would have that 06 car. So why number 06? He was driving the 6 car for Jack. And so 06 seemed natural.

You would eventually change it to 1. Why 1? He came available. All right. A lot cool number than 06. Everybody thinks 1 is the number to have. Well, he thinks better than 06. 06 is unique for sure.

How do you get the Carolina Ford dealers deal? Mark had met a guy named Danny Buppus, Bronxboro. Danny was a big rice fan and car dealer and he was on the board of the whatever they called into the Carolina Ford dealers And so that's a I want to somebody was asking me the other day

About sponsors How do I get sponsors? How do I get sponsors? Tell me how to find a sponsor And so that's the that's it That's the way for everybody out there listening You better be networking Mark Martin introducing Bill to this man boom they got a partnership

I'm sure it was barely enough money to get you the racetrack but hey that's how deals happen that's how partnerships come together is you've got to be willing to network and that means stand there and have a conversation with somebody

to create that relationship anybody comes by anybody because you never know you never know and if you can interest them in what you're doing and they want to get into what you're doing to help you that's how that happens That's how those partnerships become.

That's certainly how that deal worked. Exactly. So in 1989, you switched the number to number one. You move the team to High Point, North Carolina. Where was it? Arkansas. So y'all racing in Arkansas, you kind of, I guess like everybody would say back then, man, you got to be here if you want to race and be good.

You got to come where all the help is, where all the parts are. Yeah. You know, NASCAR was really a up, getting ready to start the big upswing. And Mark realized that, and he said, you can do this. You know, you're smart enough. You work hard enough. You can do this. I can't believe Mark talked to you into this.

Yeah, no kidding. I can't. He's a responsible for all of it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, he convinced us to come down here and try to do what we could get done. It worked out. Obviously, Mark was right.

NASCAR was on an upswing. But what were the signs? What made that believable for you? Like, did you, I mean, clearly you would have had to believe it too. But Mark says, this is about to take off, right? Oh, yeah, sure. I'm old school enough. You think you're old school.

I'm, you were kindergarten or you were in diapers when I was. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, you just, you know, sponsors started coming around. The TV packages started coming together. It was, people were talking about it, noticing it. It was time. And also, how, was it evident by this time? I mean, listen, I love hearing Mark Martin ASA stories because it sounds like he just ruled

the world in ASA. Oh, he killed him. But, like, how much was it known that Mark Martin was a special driver, like, really talented? You know, I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, obviously, I prejudiced. I always do was. And I knew how hard he worked.

I mean, he had a school that his father told him, if you're going to race, you're going to work. You know, we're not going to do all this for you. And he would, he'd got out of school, I guess, at noon or some kind of a program. and he'd come work, I mean, how long it took all night, you know, to get it ready and very, very dedicated to the sport. And Mark, I mean, he just lived and bereaved race cars. I mean, he understood his father did a really good thing for him. He sent him up to Larry Phillips, named you're very familiar with Springfield, Missouri.

And Larry taught him how to build A-frames and how to set the cars up and geometry of the front ends. That was a doctorate in racing because Larry was, for those cars at that time, he was good as came along. And he was a great teacher. And you made reference to that first car we ran those five cup races with. You know, Mark built that in Indiana. Yeah. I mean, on the floor.

We got down there, and it was so radically. That was the first year they downsized the cars. Yep. The first to what, 105-inch wheelbase, I think. and, you know, it was way different. Had a lot of lead in it, a lot of lead. Yeah. He loves talking about the setups and Mark's eager to share all that stuff on social media,

which I think he's a great follow on Twitter because of that. And in his podcast and so forth, he talks about how he brought a lot of the ideas that he had learned in his ASA car and some of the setup stuff that worked and you would see that car outperform. He'd sit on the pole. at Nashville and so forth and do things. They really surprised people. Yeah. Two poles out of five races. Yeah.

Against the best in sport. Yeah. Now we all know he ended up, you know, having to go back home, get back into ASA. But in 1991, you know, Mark is back in the sport, back successful. But he steps away from your team. Y'all are running a partial schedule with the Ford Dealer's car. And he wants to concentrate on his cup effort. And he's championship ready, getting close and having real opportunities of winning the championship over at Roush.

And he encourages you to go full time. And this is around the time when you get lined up with Jeff Gordon. And who encouraged you to look at Jeff? You know, I suppose we've been watching him on Thursday Night Thunder. That was a great show. Excuse me, a lot of people did, but I think Lee Morris and the Ford guys brought him to the attention. Did Ford have him under a contract? No, but they were there manufactured contracts for drivers back then?

Not really. I don't think so. So you were kind of in the Ford camp, you know, they got their arm around Jeff Gordon. They're going to groom him right. And then, you know, without a contract, he's able to bolt whenever he decides to do that. Yeah, and I would assume that, you know, and Jack had a lot. a lot of influence with Ford. Always did, Jack Rouse.

Jack Rouse, yeah. And Mark, of course. I imagine they encouraged Ford's, ford. Towards pairing the two of us up. Right. And so, you know, looking back on that, did you, you know, when Jeff gets in the car,

he'd ran that 67 Outback Steakhouse Pontiac at Rockingham and running a race or two. And I remember the story of him going to Buckbeckers driving school at Rockingham and all that. qualified really well. Rockingham got in a crash early, hit the back gate, going into turn three.

I remember all of this ripping the right foot fender off. But it was apparent to me, even in that moment, like, dang, man, I don't know that that's a great car, and he qualified really well with it. And when he gets into your car, do you recognize the talent that Jeff Gordon has?

Oh, yeah. You know, he's driving on Sunday Night Thunder. He's driving sprint cars on asphalt. They're wild machines. How did he adapt to your car right away? Well, he knocked a lot of snouts and clips off. I'll promise you that. He did that in the Cup Series 2, the first year with Rick.

It was brutal. But he always had speed, and he was always getting there. He just had to learn that the cars had to be tighter, and, you know, they weren't going to turn and swing, like a, driving loose like he could, those cars up there. But, yeah, he was always. special. I mean, there's no question about that. What was the relationship with, you know, early, you know, working with Jeff?

I mean, he's young guy, mustache. Pretty impressive. Lovely mustache. Yeah, pretty impressible. I mean, he's, I remember when dad introduced me to him at North Wiltsboro in 94, you know, he was following dad around. Dad was taking around the racetrack showing him with track or something. It was his rookie year.

I don't think the Xfinity Series had raced there. And so, you know, he was so, he seemed impressionable, whereas, you know, he would grow to be his old man sort of running, running HMS and a champion in the sport. But back then, when he's working with you, he's this young kid, needing direction. Yeah, and he was, he was very directable. I mean, you know, he and I had a great relationship. I mean, he knew what we had accomplished and it was a, he realized, recognized, it was a great opportunity for him.

I mean, you know, and Mark was extremely helpful. But I will. I mean, you brought up first, but your dad was extremely when we, you know, he was still running the eight car in the Buceries back then with Tony and Tony Duna. And he'd always come over after practice. I called him kid, of course.

But he'd put him a kid. out there. You know, I know wouldn't take it your dad said I really appreciate it. He said, you know, kid, you're with a really good team now. You've got to list those guys.

You can build your foundation here. I always thought that was very generous. Why do you think he did that? Did you have a relationship with Dale Earnhardt at all up until that point? No, I mean, just... To get that kind of endorsement seems like, you know, that's quite the gesture, actually.

Well, we weren't running for points, so we'd part back in the back with the other cup guys, or the other guys not running parts. Got it. With Davey and Harry Gant and Dale Jarrett. You know, there's guys running all the schedule, the full schedule, and then us. Yeah. So we, and we own stuff back and forth. You know, yeah, we've got different.

Yeah, I'm curious real quick. I'm going to back up just for a second. Would you have found your way into full-time ownership, had Mark Martin not encouraged it or suggested it for you? Oh, heck no. So you really, Mark saying you should do this is the only reason you ended up in full-time. I mean, because that's quite the, you know,

that's quite the milestone in terms of your career and all that you brought to the sport. Mark Martin recommending full-time, that's all it took? Yeah. I say, you know, obviously we loved racing, you know, had enough luck in that starting off with Mark that we thought we'd go. could do it, I guess, and wanted to do it.

So you wanted to. But that probably put us over the edge. Got it. That's what I want. And so then Jeff Gordon has now come along. I mean, what a development. I know. A couple of years into the deal.

And you just, you know, you knew or you were connected with the right people that had credibility and respect. And obviously, we didn't know who Jeff Gordon was or would become. But you're now, in my mind at that particular time, you were sort of this steward or this, you know, shepherding in this raw, young talent, everybody was super excited about. And he was in a really, really great position with your team. You had a great young team that was very fast and capable. And this was like the perfect opportunity for a rookie rock star. Baby Ruth comes on board in 1993.

I mean, baby freaking Ruth is a major, you know, iconic brand. And, you know, back then, you know, the sponsorships in the Xfinity series were typically, you know, automotive-related, local, smaller, you know, smaller packages. But what's this baby Ruth deal? Explain this to me. Is this a regional deal? Is it a national baby Ruth? Oh, who was the national deal?

How did that come about? A guy that had worked, golly, I don't know if I remember his name. Well, a sponsor-type guy, you know. got him interested and got him interested in Jeff and there for us. Yeah. Bob Long. It's another key point that we may be getting around to mention, but for the baby Ruth year, the second year, Jeff, we had Ray.

Okay. Ray had been working. So, Ray was, am I right to say that Ray had been working with IROC and Dave Marcus, and he had been in and around. He was a modified racer, quit driving. Yep. quit driving, got a little banged up one day, ended it, you know, stopped driving and then started working on cars.

He ends up coming down here. And where is he working when you got in touch with him? He went to work for Allen. At the seven car. Yeah, he had come down to that Rocky Ham test with Jeff. In that 67 Outback car? Mm-hmm. Because Andy Petrie, Hugh Connerty owned that car,

owned a bunch of Hooters. And Andy Petrie, I think, was this bro-in-law or there was a relationship there. And Andy got ready to come down and help with it. I'm not sure. I guess they wouldn't know each other through I rock. I never really thought about that. So Ray came down and did that. Wanted to come down.

You know, like we all did. And went to work for Alan Quickey. Okay. So he's working for Alan Quickey. And then you call him, convince him to come help with Jeff? He's got his eye on Jeff, probably. Oh, yeah, he knew. Yeah.

He knew. Yeah, I don't want any question there. Right. Well, actually, what happened, he and Alan didn't he make through speed weeks. Oh. Is he the crew chief? Or is he sort of a car chief? Paul was probably still the crew chief.

I don't know what Ray's title would have been. But they just didn't. Oil and water? It wasn't going to work. You're talking about Ray and Alan Quicki or Ray and Paul Andrews? Probably all three. Okay. I'm never really talking.

to Paul about it, but I know what the other two thought. Okay. You know, it's just one of those those things. It wasn't going to work. Okay. And they were totally opposite people. And what really happened is, you can hear this story a lot of ways, but here's the truth. Ray came through the garage, maybe Thursday, Friday, tell us goodbye.

He's going home, going back to New Jersey, going back, modified. I went, what are you talking about? He said, I'm going to talk about. He said, I'm out of here. I'm not going to work well. I clicked a little bit. I said, well, don't get into a hurry. Keep your room.

And I went to work on Ford, and they gave us a little bit of money. Gail gave us the rest out of the trucking company, and we hired him. And that was the baby Ruth season. Damn. One poles, it was a record. One three races, 11 polls. So raise the crew chief on that baby Ruth car. you were going to take both those guys to cut.

What happened? Got a better offer. So I've heard, you know, over the years, I mean, this wasn't, this, this was a very frustrating result, you know, for you. You, you had a plan. It felt like that, I guess, in conversation with Jeff and Ray, that everybody was on the same page. Obviously, I understand, you know, Jeff gets this incredible opportunity with Rick and Rick's, you

know, established and been in a sport for a really long time. Who knows what else was thrown at those guys through Chevrolet and everything else. But that took a wind out of yourselves. You had a plan and a path, and now that path is not there anymore. Yeah, and we were hurt. We really liked Jeff and felt like it was kind of mutual, you know. and we'd spend all we could spend to get both of us where we were.

And, you know, that's the point that he's made, too. I mean, Jeff put himself on the map, but he also put us on that too. Yeah. Now, it was a two-way street there. You got to get that to him. But, yeah, it was unfortunate. So in the moment, you're hurt.

Have you and Jeff had conversations about this in the years since? Oh, I don't know. We've ever talked about it. But we have really just the last few years we've talked to Utah. That's good. That's really good. Does that help? Is that helpful?

Yeah, I'm over. I mean, it's a long time to say bad. That's ancient history. Yeah, I reckon so. Could have gone the other way and been better. But, hey, we rebounded in pretty good shape anyway. So you did rebound. Bobby Labani comes to you and says, hey, I hear what's going on with Jeff.

and this is where I want to be. So what are you thinking when Bob Vivani calls you up? I'm thrilled. We were good friends. We were in Thomasville. Hagen's shop was just right down the road from ours. So this is unique. I want to recognize that Thomasville, so other race teams are there.

People think that Mooresville, everybody was here. Back then, it was a little bit more spread out. You know, there was people in Mooresville, people in Harrisburg, Concord. There were shops, and, you know, we had Hudson. Pagan down that way. In Thomasville, you had a few shops. You had the petties and, yeah. And so.

The petties were up there. Junior Johnson was. Junior was in the Northland. Yeah. So how do you know, Bobby? We just met in the garage, of course, in the year, the baby roof year. We ran for the points.

He's also competing in the Xfinity series or the Bush series back in. We were racing against y'all. Yeah, we're in the top three in four. three points all year and part beside each other either that side or that side so he comes to drive for you in the bush series no no no cup racing okay so he called you he's is is he cup racing by that point he isn't he's looking for his first cup ride yeah and you're going cup racing you had already decided even with jeff leaving you're going we're going to stay the course you're

going with you how are you uh so baby ruth's not the sponsor anymore they're gone Where did baby Ruth go? They had a change in their sports management as so often happened. That's a frustrating thing to happen. Oh, because they made it work. It was working for them. Yeah. It really was.

You get that new CEO or some new marketing. Well, she came in. Nice lady, but she was all about the NBA. Yeah, they moved their money to saw her. So they took their money to basketball. Yeah. That happens. We've had that happen with our own partners, man.

You'll be cruising down the road, four or five, ten-year relationship and getting new management. and they want to do something different. But so Bobby comes and Bobby and you have the Maxwell House deal. So this is, I think I know what I'm about to hear. Junior Johnson has a two-car team. He had Maxwell House as a partner and he gets a McDonald's deal. Is it possible that Junior Johnson sent the Maxwell House deal to you?

Totally. Isn't that? That's one thing. thing that I've learned about Junior Johnson in probably the last five years that I did not know about that man. He had his finger on everything going on in the sport between manufacturers, sponsors. He was so well connected. He was.

This guy. He respected. Yeah. Wore a t-shirt and overalls every day up in Wilkes County, knew more about what was going on in corporate America, you know, in NASCAR than anyone. Oh, yeah. And brought R.G rules to the sport. Yeah. And so it's interesting, too, how he was managed or how, I guess the relationship between him and NASCAR, how unique and volatile it would become at times considering how connected and helpful he was to a lot of people.

So, does he enter, are you talking to junior? Does junior call you and say, hey, man, I got a thing, I need you to, how does that happen? Oh gosh, I don't know it's been a long time ago, but basically, you know, he had Maxwell House, the 22 car in Sterling. Yes. And as you said, McDonald's came along, and he wanted to go back to his 27 number. And he had such a relationship again with the Maxwell House people. They wanted to stay in the sport, but they couldn't step up or wouldn't spend what McDonald's was going to. They were in a match, yeah. So he said, here's an opportunity for you.

And he laid it out for them. And, of course, we were just, oh, yeah, please. Incredible. But a lot of it was, Junior had a great relationship with the Vonny's. You know, Terry had driven the Budweiser car for him. That's true. And Bob, senior, works at Junior's building transmissions in gears. Damn, all right.

For several years. So that was a pretty close-knit deal. And Jr. You'd watch Bobby come along and race Bush. I have to imagine, though, you've got to give yourself a little credit here, which I know you probably won't. But I bet that Junior also saw something in you and your team, and y'all's stability, y'all's success, y'all's growth, your ambition,

and thought that he's not going to put Maxwell, this person that, you know, this Maxwell House brand that he has a great relationship with in a bad position. He knew that he was putting them in a position to succeed with good people. I appreciate that, and I think that's, you know, the truth to that. We worked awful hard. It's fascinating. Nobody really hears. Nobody talks or credits junior as much as I think they should about, you know, like you said, I mean, bringing the R.J. Reynolds deal.

We've heard many times at this table, you know, he was influential in the middle of the conversations when dad left Osterlin and go to, you know, JD Stacey buys a team and dad's like trying to get out of that deal. Yeah. And he talks to, Jr. talks to Richard Childers and tells him. Richard to stop driving. Yeah. To hire a driver, this is your chance. Dale's got a sponsor. The best day of Richard's life.

Yeah, he didn't think so. I bet it. He thinks so now, but at the moment, he's probably like, are you sure? You know, I don't know if I want to quit. Hey, if you like to surround yourself with lots of NASCAR diecast like we do here on the Dale's Union Download, you're probably always looking for a great deal that will help you round out that collection. Luckily, we know the folks at Lionel Racing, the official diecast of NASCAR,

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collecting for different reasons and this is a great way to continue that. You would finish second to Jeff in the rookie of the year chase then you switch. So you have Fords in your first year in cup

and you've been with Ford for a long time, right? You're going to switch. to Pontiac. Was that a relatively seamless transition? Yeah. Ford just, they had some big teams. They weren't going to do a lot for us. They weren't going to help us grow.

And Rusty and Roger made the decision to go to Ford. They'd recruited Ford. They were Pontiac, so they're going away. And it's like, that's just going to make it worse for us. And Pontiac approached us. They did. brought a, well, for where we're at in the sport and everything, a great deal. Yeah.

I always want to ask you about this, and maybe there's nothing to it. I always felt like the Pontiac car struggled. Like, I don't know if it was, I mean, Arrow. You would look at that thing, especially, say, looking at your cars and looking at, you know, Bobby when he would go to Gibbs, Tony Stewart, you would look at those cars and think, damn, then things look like they ought to have a lot of arrow advantage or they ought to be great, right? The Pontiac was shaped in such a way that it looked like it could perform really well.

But throughout most of its existence, the Pontiac, I mean, aside from the year Rusty won the championship driving a Pontiac, I mean, the Pontiac, to me always seemed to be just one car that could never really get where it needed to be with the other, you know, the big two of Ford and Chevrolet. Yeah, I'd agree with that. What was, and it was arrow. I don't know. Yeah, I think it was probably arrow. Yeah.

You know, it's a big, very, it was the same. Yeah. As you know, but, yeah, they were, I had some, I guess that one year of your rusty and Penske won, what, nine or ten races? Yeah. That won't even the championship year. No. Yeah.

Of course, you know, that was Roger Pansky and Rusty Wallet. Sure. They're supposed to do that. Yeah. So, Penske's going. to Ford, Pontiac comes to offer you a deal. Does Pontiac, I just don't remember this, did they have other teams that they have in the fold, or did you feel like you might be the, you know, the priority?

I don't know if that's the right word, but at least get the attention that you deserve and the support you need to compete. Well, I had Chuck Ryder and Michael in the 30-car. Bahrir. Biharie. Yep. who else would have been there were a couple of the teams

but they weren't they weren't as spread out of which of the war and that was attractive yeah and so you know you Bobby drives for you in 93

and 94 you drove a Ford 93 of Pontiac in 94 Bobby's gonna go to Joe Gibbs how do you learn about this oh Bobby's totally up front Did you tell you at mid-season?

We talked about it all along. Oh, way through the deal. Joe's coming in with Pontiac. Or did he have Chevrolet? I don't remember. Yeah. I guess in 95 maybe. I bet they were Chevalachers.

They had the lines with Rick. Okay. It would be Chevalers. All right. So what are you going to do? How do you, who's going to do your race car driver? Well, again, Maxwell House had a change in upper-tier management. And the two guys that were our champions,

I think one was the president and the other. I don't remember his title, but they were great guys. But they were retiring. It was just bad set of number. Yeah. And Bobby and I had a continuing contract. And, you know, he talks to other teams, and that didn't sound like that great opportunity to me.

But then the Gibbs deal came up. and shoot. He had to go. Well, I mean, I said go. You told him to go. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What are you doing?

We're involving our good friends. What are you doing for partnership, sponsors and stuff for next year? We're just scrambling, digging. We didn't get, it was, you know, the next sponsor was NBN, the credit card bank. Yep. And we got that deal done in Atlanta. The last race of the year or the first Atlanta? Last.

Okay. So right before the end, right at the end of the last. You know, 95 or 94, 94 season, 94. Bobby and I agreed to part several weeks before. Gotcha. And I couldn't stand the way Bobby getting that kind of deal. We weren't there yet. You hire Randy LaJoy.

Mm-hmm. Yep. And Randy, I'd race against Randy in 98, 99, won a couple championships in the Bush Series in 96 and 97, I believe, for base motorsports. but Randy comes in driving your car he gets fired after Michigan Jimmy Hensley drives a car for five races while in Dallingback

drove a car at Watkins Glen runs second likes we should have won while he's a hell of a road course race What happened? There was about four laps to go when they threw a caution for debris Mark was

I bet we were two seconds ahead of Mark Yeah. And they didn't even send the trucks out. They tightened them up. We all pitted and we came out. I think we came out third. Oh, you're saying they didn't send the trucks out. They didn't go pick up any debris.

You questioned there's no debris. Oh, man. No, so I've ever been in that car. Yeah. And I've had my moments. So after Hensley drove the car in Michigan, he was replaced by Ward Burton. So 95 was a year of y'all sort of fine. in yourself. You got NBNA as a sponsor and you're rotating through drivers.

Was that, I mean, I imagine that wasn't preferable to be in that position, but do you think, you know, finally when you get a hold of Ward is, do you recognize right away that Ward somebody is going to stick around, that you're, you've got, you're excited about Ward? Yeah, and he was excited to be there. Yeah. And head speed. Yeah. What was the problem with, I mean, Hensley always seen.

to be that kind of stop gap, fill-in substitute driver. He's up in age in that point in his life. Not a guy you're looking to build a long-term future with, I imagine. Randy didn't work out for whatever reason. Do you have, I mean, what was the, what, do you recall what the struggles were with Randy? He was pretty bullheaded. Was it, at that time, maybe he was a great team player. and sponsor really didn't like him.

Yeah, I got you. It was just a lot of things. Just a bad fit. They won a good future. When you get Ward, Ward wins the first race at Rockingham. And I wonder what your emotions were about that, because, I mean, obviously you're thrilled to win a race, right? Absolutely.

Cars competitive. Who's the crew chief? Do you recall? who the crew chief was at that point in time. Ooh, give me a minute here. 1995. I think it still would have been Chris Hussey. Chris Hussey.

Sure it was. Of course it was Chris. You had been, I wonder where you are mentally about, you know, drivers and loyalty, right? You've had a couple situations where that didn't work out in your favor. You got to go out and win your first race. You just nabbed Ward. We've seen Ward drive at Hardy's car at 31. in a limited schedule in the cup series,

sat on a pole at Charlotte and do some pretty cool things. There was the tire war going on back then as well that muddied the waters. But when you get war, and he wins a race, are you, my reaction would be, God dang, I got to get this guy under contract. Like, I need to avoid going down the same path again.

where I show the world what a great driver this guy is and he goes and drives for somebody else instead of staying with me. I mean, did you have any of that kind of reaction to that win at Rockingham? Well, I mean, we had a contract and, you know, Ward was all in at that time. Yeah. You know, we were the team. Y'all were the team. He wanted to be with.

Yeah. Yeah. And we had a lot of speed, a lot of places. And 96 through 98, y'all continued to improve, continue to grow. And then you restart the Bushro National team. One of my favorite paint schemes of all time, the Amico car. Oh, yeah. Man, what a beautiful race car.

And you nabbed a really, really, really incredible person. Good, solid race car driver, but a really, really good guy, Dave Blaney. Huge guy. Yeah. One of my favorite people. Mine too. I was lucky enough to be racing in the Xfinity series with Dave at that time. this is silly

I love the Amico car because when I race late models everybody was racing everybody was running unicale or high-octane track gas or whatever it was but the best stuff to put in a late-mile stock car at the time was Amico 93.

That sounds good. It did the best on the dino even better than any high-octane unicale or racing fuel. And so when the Amico car comes out, you know, and I'm racing against that car. It was just hard not to like it because of what I knew about the fuel. And Dave was so quiet. Dave was this established superstar in dirt, world. And so, you know, in a way, I was like, man, this is incredible. This guy is going to try to

now carve out this career in a stock car. And I get to be out there. You know, I was just, I really admired him and boy he's so hard to talk to he's so quiet back then at least he still is yeah and yeah he is kind of shy um i remember y'all having some really really solid runs in that car um Atlanta was a great track uh but it was so fun to go to the racetrack beautiful race car uh always good time to be out there on the racetrack with him i remember that very fondly um me too yeah so you're back you know your team is growing in this point in time. 1998, 99,

going into the 2000 season, y'all expand to two cars. You bring Dave up into the cup ranks with the 93 car, Amicoe sponsorship. So you're fielding a car for Ward and a car for Dave. Are you financially,

you seem like the kind of person that's financially putting every dime into this thing. You had to have been. Everything. Yeah. Because we were never sponsored up. You know, we were always just a tick behind, you know, when, you know, the children's and those people were getting $8 million.

We were getting $4.4.5 or $5. Yeah. And then when they moved to 12, well, then we got to eight. Yeah. You know, we were just always, always. How did the Amico deal come about? A guy named Lee Dore. We had known him for a while.

He was a sponsor, a Hunter Cap guy. And he was a huge Dave Bailey fan. And he just put it all together. Yeah. Ward would return to Victor Lane in 2000 at Darling. And that was y'all's final win with Pontiac. Blaney would finish third in a rookie years. You ran R&D cars at times.

The 23 car was Scott Wimmer. You had a lot of history of running R&D cars. Was that a motive of your own, or was this team-driven? They wanted to, you know, they wanted to try things. Probably some of all. Yeah. A little bit of manufacturer. You know, we did a lot of tests with those things.

Yeah. In 2001, y'all switched to Dodge, running the Intrepid. And Ward would win at Darlington that year. What led to that, by the way? Because I remember when Dodge came into the sports. That was a big deal. Like I remember that being a huge deal to get that OEM. Yeah.

And you were, you were right there when they entered the sport, right? And how did that materialize for you guys? And there were three teams, the Petty's Ray and. Everham and you guys. Yeah. Yeah. It, they approached us. Thought we looked like a likely candidate, I guess.

the Pontiac deal was okay, but it wasn't great. It's what it was. It was the best way at the time. And they came in and offered more. And the problem with the Dodge Steel, their engineering wasn't very deep. They didn't have, well, they hadn't raced. Right. You know, it wasn't like.

You know, they had guys who had been car designers and not knocking them. They were good guys. There was a couple that were extremely bright, but it just didn't work. Well, you, I mean, you ran Dodge for a really long time. You ended up running Dodge till 2006. But there was some issues, a lawsuit that Dodge brings about because of y'all's development of the Toyota program. We had a separate company. Yeah.

Separate building, separate staff, development. the truck. For Toyota to come run. So truck is entering NASCAR at the truck series level. Yes. And this business that you have completely separate of your cup organization

is part of helping develop that particular truck. Yeah, it was a separate engine deal. Terry L.G was doing the cup stuff. Yep. John Diceger, who'd been with Leo Jackson for years, was doing

Toyota stuff. Yeah. And complete separate. And that was, you didn't think that was a big deal, but when, so Dodge hears about this and they get upset? Yeah, they just felt like it was a conflict. And I guess it was. They prevailed in court. So why was, why weren't you all able to have a conversation about it and say, hey, man?

Oh, yeah, we tried. I mean, we stayed their position. But why would I mean you have a relationship with Dodge Why wouldn't Dodge You know Not let this go to You know a court

Yeah Yeah That's a great question Yeah Certainly could have been settled a lot easier Right Yeah And you wanted to

But it just didn't go that route You weren't allowed that You weren't afforded that opportunity I'm curious was there a misunderstanding Was this all about the truck series Or did they think that you were working with development of a cup car because if I remember correctly,

Toyota came in as a truck only, yeah, truck only. Well, I'm sure they were looking at big picture. Well, I assume that too. That's why I guess I'm wondering, like, was this really about the truck series or did they think that there was something bigger going on? It was just about Toyota coming. Wow.

So, man. In my opinion. Yeah, right, right, right. So y'all win the Daytona 500 in 2002. when was the first inkling that Dodge is becoming aware of this Toyota thing? That's in the middle of 2003. I mean, you're kind of still on a high from winning one of the biggest races in the sport. Ward certainly went in the biggest race of his career.

You're still a two-car team with Hutz Strickland, Hills Brothers. That goes away. Kenny Wallace comes with Stacker 2. you got Scott Wimmer driving some races you ended up shutting down your full-time second car in the middle of 2003 or 4-2003 you go away from having two cars you're back to one with Ward

and so I suppose sometime in the middle of 2003 they discover that there's this separate business that's developing the truck for Toyota they get angry And you, are you, you're required to pay Chrysler $6.5 million? I thought it was five. Five, well, still. It was a whole lot of money.

That's a damn lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't fun. Why did they need $5 million of your dollars? Yeah, right. Good question. I need a lot worse than they did.

So you were able to, I mean, how do you even do that? Do you have, is that like something you paid over time? Because you continue to raise. anything, I'm just curious because $5 million would shut me down. Actually, Toyota stepped up and helped us. Oh, I'll be down. So.

I mean, we were responsible for it, but they. Yeah, they helped you out. Financed it. Okay. But even while you're still running Dodge? Why did you keep racing the Dodge to 2006? So Toyota got ready to go cup race. You were waiting on that.

And Dodge was okay with you, continuing to run their car? It didn't matter. Were you not getting any support from them anyways, right? Were you getting support from them when this lawsuit comes about? What they had available. I mean, you know, like they'd cast the engine blocks and ship them in there and they'd crack in the floor. We'd get Caterpillar to build the engine blocks.

Really? Yeah, that's problematic, I would assume. Was it, I mean, Dodge pulled its manufacturing support in 2003 in October. You ran Dodgers until 06. you covered up the Dodge logos on the cars, but that was due to the ruling of the district court in Detroit. They ruled in favor of Chrysler, and so you had to cover the decals up on the car.

I don't even remember this. This would be massively, you know, in today's world with Twitter and everything out, it would be completely dramatized. Yeah, I don't know what it really. Totally was. It kind of flew under the radar to an extent, you know, for something to being so controversial and such a disruption, I suppose, for you and Chrysler and everybody else involved.

Y'all settle out of court in 06. Actually, we went to court. Yeah. And got whacked. Right. Oh. Oh, yeah. So that wasn't a settlement.

That was a judgment. A court ruling. Okay. Got it. That sucks. Interesting. Were you having to go to court? I mean, were you going?

That's a third month in Detroit. Good heavens. So when the Dodge deal comes about, you know, Ray's team seemed to be the focus. Yeah. I mean, that thing was set up to succeed. There's red cars, Dodge all down the sides of them. How was the, you know, when Dodge comes in, when a manufacturer like that comes in, I guess, how do they decide like, okay, you know, here's the pie.

And there's going to be three teams, you know, this team and this team and this team. Was it understood that there would be an ABC? Or? I don't know if it was understood completely. I mean, I do know that they had, how do I word this, indications that Jeff was going to come with. Jeff Gordon? Okay.

As a partner or as a driver? Driver. And that didn't work out. So that probably made a big difference. That must have been. But they were committed by then. Yeah. And, I mean, of course, Ray's Ray.

He did a great job putting together a hell of a team. Yeah. That team, I thought, was going to be a hell of a dynasty. You know, it's surprising to me, I guess, that the Dodge deal didn't really pan out. Yeah, that's what had to Ray was Dodge. Yeah. Yeah. They weren't.

They just weren't there. Yeah. So what is the, what does a manufacturer like Dodge lack? what was their shortcoming? It just takes a ton of money. Well, money and experience and understanding of the sport and the way things go. But Toyota, I mean, Toyota comes in. They're not experienced, and they had a very structured sort of progress

through the truck series, Exfinity Cup. I mean, it wasn't like, bam, we're a cup team. No. Maybe their process is better. And they had a ton of money. they were willing to put into it. Well, and they were racers, you know, indie cars, and they had TRD, and they had engineering,

and they were smart enough to come in and listen to how things work down here. Yeah. You know, rather than, oh, we'll show y'all. Yeah. Huh. I remember Dodges, you know, when I remember the Dodge, I draw, this has no, this has no effect on cup racing at all. but man, when I was race,

so I'm racing a late mall stock car back in the 90s, and damn, a Dodge, man, made power. Dodge was always looked at as an engine that, even back in the hemi days, right? It had a reputation for being a monster engine. You had to work your ass off to get the Ford and Chevrolete v8 to do what you wanted it to do, but the Mopar power was readily available,

all on the table. That's the way In light model sucks. Well, and everything, right? When they ran hemies in the 70s with petties and they had to choke them chargers down to make them, you know, give Kale and those other guys the Ford's a chance.

When they come into the sport in, you know, in the 2000s, I felt like there was a similar sort of excitement around what they might be able to do, right? Oh, I think it was a great expectation. Yeah. Coming back to the sport? I just don't understand how it didn't work. It just did work.

I don't know. Maybe they didn't have the right team. Do you think that the rumblings and rumors of them ever coming back would ever materialize? You just don't know? I can't imagine it would. You don't think so, yeah. Because people talk about it. Oh, you hear it all time.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're always talking about they're trying to get new OEMs in. You hear, I mean, there's only so many to go get. You just assume that's one of them. I think that I would imagine, you know, But they've already done this once, and I don't have a ton of confidence in them coming back to do it. I sure would.

I'd be awfully surprised. Me too. Ward is going to leave the team. When does Ward leave in 2004? Ward leaves and Wimmer's going to drive full-time. Wimmer wins at Dover running your little Xfinity car. Wimmer's running second, got some wins. A lot of people were high and excited.

on him, young guy. And Ward's moving on. Y'all are struggling with Ward throughout the last several years in the Dodge. You know, we've had Ward on the show. He had nothing but great things to say about his experience driving for you and, you know, just chalks up the performance

there in the last several years to personnel hell and, you know, difficulties just trying to get speed and power on the track, a lot of changes in the team. But, well, a big problem with Ford was confidence. He had no confidence in whoever's working on the car. Really? The first time he had a bad day, none for that guy. He can't build shocks.

Yeah. Ronnie Crooks. I'm sorry, he built shock. Yeah. Yeah, he just, he's. You, you. Y'all ran together a long time. You know, so, I mean, those, those issues with Ward were manageable, right?

But I guess they progressed and became more and more difficult to handle over time. Was the decision for Ward to leave a mutual one? And so you're fine because you got Scott Wimmer, right? You think this kid's. Oh, had a ton of particular. You got what it takes, yeah. So Scott comes and drives a car. you're now, you know, you sold all your Xfinity team to Keith Coleman.

Is that right? I'm kind of trying to understand what's going on with you around 2005, six, seven, where you're racing Xfinity, you're racing Cup. You've got trucks now. You're buying truck equipment and teams. What's your mindset? Like, what's your focus and ambition? I mean, I remember when gold, like most people's, it's Cup Series.

Yeah. Was some of the manufacturer stuff with Toyota driving these decisions as well? What's making you? Like, because, you know, you would sometimes, like, grow, add another Cup team, add an extended team, and then you would shrink it back down to, like, get back to focusing on one thing. Well, we didn't string down necessarily by choice, you know, sponsors. You were doing whatever you could. If you could sponsor a car and put it out on a lot,

track you were doing it. Yeah, we had the people, we had the shop, with equipment, sure. Interesting. We built an axle race cars. You did. So you had Mike Skinner driving a truck for you at one point. One of the more recognizable moments for you as a truck owner was Johnny Benson driving a 23 truck.

Y'all won a lot of races. Rick Ram was your crew chief at the time for some of that. Johnny Benson had had a relatively uneventful career. career, you know, to that point. You gave, I think, Johnny an opportunity to really showcase what he was capable of. Well, what I can say about the took series with Skitter and with Johnny. That was the first time that Bill Davis Racing had manufacturer support, sponsorship, and the drivers all in one pile.

That was the only time. Right. And each one of those teams is a combination. You know this way better than I did. You've got to have the cars, the engines, the. crew chief, the driver, the bit crew. And we had that. Yeah.

And I think that really the truck series was our opportunity. Of course, that's not cup racing, but still, there's a lot of good trucks. Show what we could do, what we're capable. Yeah. You know, you finally do switch to Toyota in 2007. At that point, is the relationship with Toyota one that you're excited about? Is this, are you? Oh, yeah.

Toyota's wonderful, man. There was never a bad moment with Toyota. They were so, so, so very good to us. And they were racers. They understood racing. They struggled, though, coming in to perform, almost so that I felt like NASCAR, not intentionally, but NASCAR did them no favors.

When they came in the Truck Series, the Xfinity Series, ladder, NASCAR made them earn their performance in terms of the ability to develop arrow and power under the hood. Yeah, I would say a lot of that. You know, NASCAR had some long-term relationships with the other manufacturers. Right. Yeah, you couldn't allow.

And here's these guys coming in. Yeah, yeah. Not come in and just kick ass. I don't even know how to really word that without. I don't, this isn't a slight at NASCAR at all. and I think that they did the right thing. It's a business decision. If Toyota was willing to earn it, right, pay their dues, if you will.

And they were. And they were. They would eventually prevail and have success, which that seemed to be the way it worked for them through trucks, Accentity and Cuck. There was some moments of growing pains, learning the roads. Sure.

In the first, so is this true, Blaney was the only Toyota racer in the top 35 in owner points in 07? He finished third at Talladee, the best finish of any Toyota in 2007. I mean, those are crazy. to think now, looking at Toyota's success on the race track. I don't know that I've realized that. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. I believe it, though. Toyota's first polling cup was at New Hampshire with Blaney. If these statistics are correct. In 2008, some struggles missed the race at Talladega. Caterpillar announced they would be leaving. Caterpillar had been with you for how long by then. I mean, that was a decade or so.

80 years ago. Yeah. So that must have been a difficult waltz. I mean, we've talked about it already in the show. Sponsorships, partnerships, they were everything to a company like yours. Oh, yeah. I mean, they're obviously important to everybody,

but that you literally took every dime you made and got from these partnerships back into the team to make it work. Recently, Chip was on here. Yeah. And he made the comment, and I thought, boy, that really says it all. you know his race teams are what he had he won a millionaire billionaire right 200 car dealerships and let's not knock on those guys sure happy for them but his race seems they had to make their living well so that ours yeah and that's why there's so much his consistency ups and downs you know we

and gal and i were just we made a good living in arkansas the small truck of county yeah we didn't have huge dollars to spin racing. That's such a great point. I'm sorry to interrupt, Dale, but tell me if I'm wrong about this. I'm hearing all this. If I'm you, at some point

through this whole thing, I start to feel like I'm getting used by drivers and by sponsors. Like, you know, it always seems like, again, I may be wrong on this. I don't need you to correct me if I am. It's almost like some drivers. They stay for a couple years. They do this thing, but they're all,

they're quick to bolt. They're quick to find some problems that are not going to be just exclusive to your race team. Every race team's got the same thing. Everybody's got this stuff. But it seems like that they're always looking for greener pastures and they're using you as a doorstep. Am I wrong? Oh, no, you're right. Did you feel that way?

Did you feel that way? Probably to a degree. Certainly it was if I did. But that was their history. He and John Bigford did. What was keeping you then from, is it that that's keeping? the Bill Davis racing enterprise that it is from going up, because you said you're always that step behind financially.

You know, as soon as a team gets $4 million, or as soon as you get $4 million, they're getting eight. Like, let's just use the Hendricks and the Penskees. Yeah. Is it, what's causing that, what's preventing? Because it seems like with the Toyota thing, that's your, that's actually after almost two decades of this,

now you've finally reached the same level of financial support as these other teams, maybe even in the truck series. But the fact is, now you're there. And yet, something always seems to happen, whether it's a sponsor leaves or a driver's now going to go bolt or a driver's now going to go bolt or drivers. That's what I'm picking up. Is that right? I mean, yeah, there's some truth to that, I guess. You know, the sponsors, most of those are.

decision I understood. Caterpillar, for instance, they were, you know, they were, they're very loyal to Ward. Loyal to Ward, that's right. But that was Ward Demo. He'd get right in there and make friends with a sponsor. He's good. He's good with that, yeah. Oh, yeah.

And then try to take him to Rick, try to take him to Childress. And that was a constant distraction. You get tired of that. Absolutely. You get tired of it. That's human nature to get, that's where I feel like. like you're getting used a little bit, and it would be okay to feel that way.

And I know that this business is cutthroat. You know that. But like, man, it's almost like you went through a decade and a half of that. Yeah, well, we're pretty hard-headed. We're determined we weren't going to give up, I guess. Well, that's to your, yeah, I think that that's honestly the, resiliency comes to mind when it comes to Bill Davis racing. Like, you know, I, you know, when you, you,

You weren't these, you know, like, you weren't this independent single car operation. You, you were beyond that. But then it said these continuous, like, driverly. Well, I don't even remember where Ward went after Bill Davis racing. Like, did he go to, was it like Haas? He went to Haas, and then he went to the four car. And they didn't last long. Warden didn't have a career.

Had a great thing going with you. Yeah, he didn't have a career after he left our place. Right. So the resiliency and the efforts and stick-to-itiveness, hard-headedness, paid off. You win the championship in the truck series with Johnny in 08. Beat Ron Hornady, one of the best ever for the championship. It's your only championship. Where does that rank in your – I'm certainly that Daytona 500 is a very special moment for you.

What are some of the highlights? You know, the Southern 500 is big. Yeah. That's a tough one. Everybody wants to want something. Daytona, obviously. Especially with the people that never won the Daytona 500. But then the Truck Championship, yeah.

Did you know that you were, did you know that you didn't have a plan forward at the time that you're winning this championship because you would sell a majority ownership of your teams in December of 08? Yeah, we sold out completely Well, it was just, it was there The door shut on us You know, we That was a recession as you remember

Oh, that's right Yeah Oh yeah, this country went upside down As we're doing right now as we speak And that just took That's when Teams were laying off 200 people 100 people, 150 people

And now It doesn't seem like it was that long ago Yeah It was a while back Oh yeah Yeah And it's kind of continued in that teams are smaller and there's not as much money there.

You know, different spots for every week. I mean, you all go through it here. Everybody does. There's not any, you know, I guess Shell's probably the, and they're not quite the full season. FedEx, simpler. That's a good point. So, you know, the challenge has just got to be too much.

You had had enough. Were you eager to, you know, dust yourself off and move on back to Arkansas. Yeah, we'd had a run. We had a wonderful experience. Yeah. For two people that didn't have any money and just had a dream to come down here

and do what we did, you know, you've got to be satisfied. You look at the people that never won a race. Yeah. Never won a poll. And had sponsorship and continued sponsorships and, you know.

Yeah. I mean, Michael Steele with Chuck Ryder is a great example. Yeah. Had pins oil for years and years and years. So did you just literally just sell it all and move? No, I mean, tears shed, no sadness? I mean, I'm sure. Well, yeah, so like, I mean, the Daytona.

You feel like a failure. I mean. The Daytona 500 rolls around in February and you're not there. I'll say this. Turned on the Daytona 500. And they started, golly. And I had about 15 or 20 laps of, oh, I'm pitiful me, you know. Then it was, that's all right.

I don't have to fight the traffic to get out of there. Started thinking about all the positives. And I didn't want to do this when I was 70 years old. Yeah, okay. I mean, I see some of those guys back in the day creaking around the garage. I thought, Godly. Pept they wish they were home on an easy cheer. That looks like that hurts, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So in 2013, a former employee was charged with embezzling $300,000 from the company. How does that happen? She was a, well, she came to work. She worked at the Petty's, came to work for us, just a receptionist. And then when the other company started, the Toyota Company started, she moved over there in a pretty high man.

level position. She approved the checks and approved the credit cards. She paid, this is my favorite, if there's a good part of the story, other than send her to prison, I like that part pretty well. But she paid an Indian tuner on one of the Toyota trucks per diem for a year after he died. Good Lord. That's how she got caught. Oh, damn.

Whoa. John Diceyer was standing in. You know John Diceinger. I don't think so. Oh, man, fabulous engine builder. I'm sure if I saw his name. Oh, fabulous engine builder. He'd been with Andy and Leo and that old bunch.

Yeah. But he walked in and looked at her desk one day, and there was a stack of a predium voucher. She had actually write the checks. She took them to the CFO over in the cut building. And Joe Blow. He looked. back of the day, that's this week.

I've been dead a year. So that's how she got this. Oh my gosh. He's been dead a year. Yeah. Wait, so that happened, you know, she gets, this is something she was caught for in the act. Oh, yeah.

Right? And then it took till 13 to get to go through the process, the legal process of charging her and finding her guilty. Yeah, the prosecutor attorney in Winston-Salem to do it. Wow. And we had to just keep. pounding on them. Yeah.

And we think I know, we just want to hurry get hers here. Yeah. Justice, right? So where you left all of this, all of your NASCAR stuff, right? And you gave it to somebody else, sold it to someone else, whatever. Move back to Arkansas. You haven't never, have you had any involvement in anything racing since? Not even on a lower grassroots level.

No. Nothing. That wouldn't appeal to me now. Why? I don't know. I mean, I loved racing, and it was really good. You love racing? Yeah, but you know, we did.

You started helping Mark around, you're going to a dirt track. We did it for a long, long time. You wouldn't find any joy and sending a car to the dirt track down the road and winning? I don't guess so. I've never considered it. You never tried it. Has anybody called you? Who do you keep in touch with?

Oh, boy. Sure. Because, see, I think that the, I think there's a chance as long as there's people talking to him about racing, right? Like, I think that there's a chance. Nope. He's shaking his head, no. But you still keep in touch with people. A few.

I always tell the story that you walk out of that gate at Homestead, which was the last race of the year. And evidently, yourself, phone number falls out of everybody's phone. You don't hear from anybody. Yeah. I mean, I've stayed friends with Ross Shattie, Scott. the field of green salivar here down oh yeah oh ross yeah he's good that's so funny you had with the yellow pickup truck yeah oh yeah lovely in it finally got rid of that thing did he oh boy all right but then james fitch course we've always been we've been friends for 35 years

talked to him probably weekly go see him that's good he comes to see us he wants to tell you about his son i'm sure like he you know he's a son's racing so just wasn't over that are correct. He did just win. Yes, he did. And won it. You know, you bring up Finch, I got to ask you, when you're talking about all that manufacturer back and forth with Dodge, I literally in my head, I didn't bring it up because I didn't think it fits into the conversation. But now that you mentioned Finch, I'm thinking my first year with Finch, my only year with Finch was in 2002, he would put

a different manufacturer sticker on his car, depending on where he, he ran a Pontiac, Pontiac of Daytona and a Chevrolet the next week at Rockingham. And I always wonder, how does he get away with that? I don't know. He would be it. And maybe it was because he didn't take any of their money. That's exactly why. Is that it?

Yeah, if you don't have any manufacturer's support, you have no loyalty. You just do whatever's best for you and whatever's most reasonable financially. One of my favorite stories is James, of course, there's so many. They'd take five shows. he went to meet with shirflay one time about some support you know body part to any parts or whatever he said man bd he always calls me bd i came out of that meeting i felt like i needed a little mimson money oh that's funny but you know he interestingly um this is what i thought was so peculiar about him is that that year he was i mean he was known for ripping up a check that you know that maybe

a manufacturer, you know, if he won a race, he's like, don't give them, don't wear their hats, don't wear a Chevrolet hat, don't wear this, that, and the other. But then Gannasi had that Dodge deal, think in 2002, yeah, with Sterling and Jimmy, they were running those intrepids. And then he and James Finch went into partnership, and Finch was running Dodges the next year. And I was like, there's something about that. I was like, man, I kind of liked Finch the Rebel that didn't care. And now he's kind of like in the Dodge Camp.

And I don't even know if that lasted that long. No, he got over it. Yeah, that went way quick too. Yeah. I always liked Dale's line. When James was sitting there and said, James, when was he figured out you just didn't give a shit? And James, well, Dale, I don't know.

I was sitting there saying, never. You never cared. Right. I was talking about people that you, you know, you remember and you've been connected to in racing. I was talking to Shane Meal the other day, and he wanted me to tell you, he appreciated opportunities driving your car. He said you were always a lot of fun to work with.

You had a, you know, you had a reputation as a man who brought in the young talent showcasing, you know, Wimmer, Blaney, obviously Jeff Gordon. Bobby Santos. Yeah, I mean, you've, you've had a lot. You've really deserves a shot. You've been that kind of person who,

has an eye for talent, young talent, willing to, you know, willing to go through the learning pains and growing pains of getting through the bit clips and ball joints to see that driver realize the potential they have. And I think that's probably one of your best, that's probably one of your best accomplishments or what, you know, your greatest impact, if you will, on NASCAR was the people that you introduced to the sport through your organization. Drivers, crew chiefs,

owners, crew chiefs that would become owners, mechanics, engineers. Well, it's a great, great people. Yeah. It's all about people. It's very similar to what we do here at junior motor sports, to be honest with you. You know, we, you know, we also live,

we succeed, and we struggle based off of that outside support monetarily that we get from partners. and we aren't, you know, our performance does ebb and flow in a very inconsistent matter. You know, we had an incredible year last year, and we're struggling a little bit this year to get the cars these guys need. And it's literally just the speed of the cars and, you know, giving their drivers what they need to win. And so I related a little bit, I think, to what it was like for you all those years. it's year to year especially in the Xfinity Series

and you know that you race in the Xfinity Series you know life is year to year you win a championship in a truck series and in December you're going to Arkansas and leaving it all behind

it can happen that fast what are what are some of the things I think that you know that you miss about the sport well I'm in this competition I mean I still love to race

I mean it's nothing like getting up running a race and we had some great friends we had some I mean there's you know he made the comment stay in touch with people

I mean Heidi Stoddard Frankie Heidi's one of my absolute favorite people on Earth yeah we had dinner with him a couple months ago where is Frankie Stoddard

by the way to I mean that was he was with you a long time right I think he's about in retirement you know we think these people are just going to live forever I know

he got a medallion and sold out and sold out and sold I didn't get those medallions. I was a little too early. I had a lot more to sell.

I bet you wish you had to hang on to it for a while. Yeah. I should have bought him. I guess what do you think your legacy is? What are you most proud of? What do you feel like your impact was? That was a racer. It's just a hardworking, honest guy.

Didn't take advantage of people. I never stole the driver or crew teeth. Maybe I never had the opportunity, but it didn't happen. Just maybe I was a fair guy. Yeah, I think that's the way people look at you. I really do. I'm glad you came over here today. I'm glad you gave some time to talk to you, Bill.

I've not had the chance to ever really sit down with you. I've admired you all these years. Thank a lot of you. It was amazing to watch you, what you became. I was able to, you know, even as a younger, younger boy, I was aware of you coming into the sport in this new team with Mark Martin and then Jeff Gordon becoming dominant in the Xfinity Series

and then becoming a cup owner. It was fun to watch and the sport misses you. You know, you're talked about a lot more than I bet you believe you are. The sport remembers you, recognizes all. the contributions you gave to the sport, all the people that you shepherds in and gave opportunity to that are still with us today. And yeah, if you ever want to come be our guest at the racetrack and remember what it feels like to sit on a pit box and watch your car go around, you're always welcome to come be ours. Well, I appreciate that. You bet you. And you know, I've had the honor

of the pleasure of watching you from a little boy, real little guy, grow up, that night in New York at the banquet with Kenny and Ann. Yeah. Went down the Yankees dug out and ended up a coyote ugly. That was a fun night. That was a big night. Did we miss a story here? Oh, it's a real good story.

Is there a Dale Jr. story about? Well, Dale Jr. and Kenny Schrader. I mean, yeah. It goes on. Yeah, and the rest of the story we can't talk about. But I've really admired the young men you've come, how you've handled yourself, the job you've done. Your father would be really proud of you.

Thank you, Bill. appreciate it. It's been a great conversation. I enjoyed it. I have too. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Bill Davis on the Dale Jr. Download. Man, I'm really excited to have Ally help us bring the guest segment every week. It's one of my favorite parts of the download. We get to talk to so many different people in racing, outside of racing. But everybody that comes in here, I want them to have had a good time. I want them to want to come back. I want them to feel like an ally to Dirty Mo Media.

Thank you, Ally, for your continued support of the download and the entire Dirtymoe media team. Check out Dirtymoe Media. Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.