The Dale Jr. Download - 506 - Jamie McMurray - Happy With What I Have

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Dale Earnhardt Jr. is joined by longtime NASCAR Cup racer and fellow broadcaster Jamie McMurray on this episode of the Dale Jr. Download. After finding his way into the racing world through the go-kart ranks in his hometown of Joplin, Missouri, Jamie began garnering attention as he found success racing late models at local tracks like Lebanon I-44, Bolivar Speedway, and I-70 Motorsports Park. Jamie explains that one of the interested parties was longtime NASCAR Truck team owner Mike Mittler, and after pairing up with him in 1999 he began a meteoric rise up the NASCAR ladder. Jamie speaks about the pressure he felt when he was called up to the Cup Series by Ganassi Racing to fill in for an injured Sterling Marlin in 2002. It was during this stint that Jamie made history by winning his first Cup event in just his second attempt, at the UAM-GM Quality 500 at Charlotte Motor Speedway, an upset victory that shocked the sport. Dale and Jamie compare notes on transitioning from race driver to commentator and what fulfillment they find in the broadcast booth. They also reflect on their time as full-time drivers and how stepping away from the grind can give a new perspective on the sport.DraftKings State-Specific Problem Gambling Information:In Massachusetts, call [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org, In New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369). In Tennessee and Kansas, Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). In West Virginia, Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.1800gambler.net. All games regulated by the West Virginia Lottery. Please play responsibly. In partnership with Hollywood Casino at Charles Town Races. In Connecticut, Help is available for problem gambling call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Licensee partner Golden Nugget Lake Charles (LA). 21+, age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. See DKNG.co/autoracing for eligibility, terms and responsible gaming resources. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. Eligibility and deposit restrictions apply Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. There he is. Come on in here, buddy. Have a seat. Hey, everybody. Glad you tuned in. It's time for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. Mike Davis, Del and Hart Jr.

The Bojangl Studio. Got a great guest today. Well, how you doing, Rhiz? I'm doing fine right now. This is every week, okay, Bob? Uncle it. You died on that hill. Your career died on that hill and you were hardheaded.

You were a bigger idiot. I didn't even think about it. You thought about it and didn't ask it. That makes me the bigger idiot. I think so. Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Dell Jr. Download. We're in the Bojangles studio. And today is our allied guest segment.

So I want to thank Ally for doing everything they do. to bring us this guest segment every week. Jamie McMurray will be our guest. And as I mentioned in the Bojangles Studio, and for now, through November 22nd, you can get a free regular-sized dirty rice by using the code Dale, that's D-A-L-E, for a free dirty rice for any order on bojangles.com,

online, right? Or in their app, you can use their app at participating stores. So go get your free regular size, dirty rice. I mentioned an ally. They helped us bring this guest segment every week. People have been asking for Jamie McMurray. I'm looking across this table.

No Jamie McMurray. Almost. No Jamie McMurray die casts. Did you think that one car, right? That one trip me up. Yeah. But we want to thank Lionel for all the ones that we do have. Still, no sundrop, late model stock diecast.

But I see a race version 200 win, Richard Petty. uh, Pontiac in front of me. Got some tire marks on it. I assume that's his 200th win. But, uh, that's a great job there, Linal. I'm also loving this 1977 old wheel cutlass. Number two, Mike Kerr.

That's a 1980 championship car for my dad. Some good cars on the, on the table here for Lionel. Thank you, Lionel. Yeah, absolutely. But, um, yeah, Ally is bringing this guest segment to us every week. And Jamie's been asked, uh, our fans have been asking us, when are we going to have Jamie on? When are you going to have Jamie on?

And so I was getting some criticism on Reddit about something that I did. I don't know if it was podcasting or broadcasting, but in that criticism that I was reading, I saw somebody say, hey, Jamie McMurray. And I said, I'm going to get Jamie on the show. So here he is. He's coming today. That's cool. We get to talk to him.

And Jamie and I race together. We'll talk about that a little bit. There's a banner in this shop with his name on it, Junior Motorsports. We'll talk about that for a minute. A little funny story there. Obviously, he's a retired driver, so I got to ask him as he got to itch. That's right. That's right.

Does he want to get back out there? Is it unfair that I'm always asking him that? No, I think it's fascinating. Everybody's different, right? It is so fascinating. It is. I think he does a fantastic job, by the way, in his career after racing. He's really good at TV.

I agree, and we're going to tell him all about that. So let's get him in the room. James Murray on the Dale Jr. Download. That's the last time I saw Mike. Was Mike preaching? All right. Mike was on fire. Mike's a deep.

I was at there. Revival that day. Yeah. That's a deacon. Aren't you to deacon? That's a long story, but it goes way back. Not even the same church. Have you been a deacon?

Mike used to do Sunday school for the adults. No, wait a second. Why is that so surprising? Well, I don't know. I guess because I just didn't know. that. Yeah. So if y'all, you know, if he needs to fill in, if y'all, if you're at church and they're like, they're like, hey, we need somebody to fill in. You go, Mike. Mike's our guy. Mike. First guy. First of the list, right? You've got experience? You would be the first guy I would

think of it. Yeah. So Jamie Murray, man, thanks for coming. Yeah, thanks for having me. I, I have listened to, I would guess most of these shows for the last five years. I've never watched one. I'm kidding. So I run every day and I listen to podcasts. Oh, man. Partly for work, you know, partly for just entertainment. So I've enjoyed getting to, you know, listen to whether it's Sterling, who, you know, I've raced with or Kinteth who've been buddies with forever, or, you know, someone like

a Donnie Allison that I know them, but I don't know their story. And so I've enjoyed just kind of, you know, a little bit of all of that. Yeah, well, we're thankful to have you on. I know there's a bunch of people have been asking us to put you on, get you here, to talk to you about what you've been up to. Did you do research on me? So, no, I did, but it's a balance. Okay. So, like, there's, I lean, as, you know, we're both in the same profession, right?

Right. And so one of the things that has served me really well was to lean into my curiosity, right, in everything. and when I can, right? But if you know something really well, at times it's normalized to you. Right. Right. And you're not as curious or up on the wheel about it, right? But I know I raced you.

I know where you've been. I know what you've been up to. I don't know a whole lot about your life before we met. Yeah. And so I won't research. We get notes. I'll read through it, like where you were born, where you started racing, where you had success, who your heroes were.

But outside of that, I mean, I'm going to learn it with the listener. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Because it makes, I'm eager, right? Yeah. Right now. It's a balance between. The only reason I ask that is because I remember when you had Finch or Chip or somebody on and you text me and you're like, hey, like, you know, do you have a good story, right?

Because everybody likes hearing those. And so I was just, that's what I was curious. Yeah. sometimes when I got a friend that's like you're a friend. Yeah. We've been buddies for a long time. And so when there's a when there's that kind of connection, it's a, you do it. Yeah, we both do it.

But when we're getting ready for our shows and stuff, we'll reach out to people for help. But I'm excited to talk to you because you have basically, you're doing the same thing I'm doing. You're getting, you know, you're ended your driving career and you're trying to pave this route in the broadcasting side of. it and it's um you have gotten really really great critique from fans i read it all the time um and so what you're doing's working and and we want to get to get get to where you want to go in a minute but first off um i kind of want to know you know your dad was involved in racing yep sold parts uh but he was in drag racing yeah right and so he he did a little bit of of everything everything. He did a little bit of like dirt, pavement, circle track, a lot of drag racing,

and a little bit of go-karting. And that's essentially, you know, how I got started. My dad, I always joke around is like the Sanford and son of the used race car business. He loves buying and selling cars. And so when I was a kid, I never really had the same go-kart for more in about two weeks because my dad would sell it, trade. It was always something different. But that's, you know, that's how I got started in racing was just, it was, you know, essentially my dad loved racing, and when I became old enough, that's what we did together as a family. So what kind of carts are we talking about? Are we road racing? Yeah, basically, there was a track in my hometown of Joplin, Missouri, four state raceway that

was 25 seconds to go around, and it was a pavement road course track. And so really everything I did was sprint racing, road course, shorter tracks until I was 12 or 13. And then, you know, I had the opportunity to race Charlotte Roadcourse back in the day, Rockingham, Daytona. In the laydown carts? In a laydown cart, which I would never let my kid do now. I mean, how fast did you go at Daytona? Yeah, I mean, I would say as a junior, you go 70 to 80. So, well, yeah, I mean, it's fast because you're laying down, but it's just, I don't want to say

that it's boring, but you're just wide open around most of the track because the carts have have a lot of grip. But, you know, as a kid that grew up in Joplin, Missouri, just getting to go to Daytona, it was, it was pretty unbelievable. We did it every Christmas. That's when they race there. And it's been full circle for me because I've been there with my kid the last three or four years for Christmas. So the same thing that my dad and I did, I'm still, I'm getting to do with my kid. Okay. So you're racing with him. Yes. All right. We'll get to that. Okay. You recently ran, I won't say recently, but it was like a handful of years ago, ran, A go-kart race at some, I feel like it was somewhere out west or either in Florida.

I watched it on TV. You were still cup racing, I think. Right toward the end. You went and ran some purpose-built course, road course. Well, it would have been probably 2012 or 13. Yeah, it was in Vegas, actually. Right. It was this weekend, or next weekend.

It's every year they had this biggest goal. biggest go-kart race in the world probably. And people come from Europe. They come from all around to race this. And they, for years, had it at the Rio Hotel. It would be, they had the parking lot. They would, you know, had all these plastic barriers they bring in. And it was a lot of fun.

It's hard. So you'd done this before? I did it twice. Yeah. In your life. In your life? Yep. I did it once in 2008.

Was that like a goal? How does this happen? Well, so I grew up racing carts, and then in mid-90s, I stopped racing carts because I started racing cars. And I got back into carts in around 2007 or eight. How? Doing what? I don't even know why I don't even know why I chose to go back and do it again. My dad never stopped.

My dad continued to cart race even when I moved on to another thing. My dad was still doing it, and so I'm assuming I was just in conversation with him and just was like, get a card again. and I went out to Charlotte and they would let you on Wednesdays. You could go out and ride and I think Rodney Childers was out there. I don't remember. There was a few guys from the NASCAR community out there. And we'd all go out and just kind of ride on Wednesdays. And I was like, you know, you go out and you do it and you're like, I want to race.

And so I would find a, this is before kids. I would find the off weekends. I would find a race that I could go run. I went to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania one year and raced on the off weekend. And then the reason I did Vegas is because it was after the year was over. the season would be over with and you could go out there and it was it was the race that that everybody talked about how'd you doing those races the first year I went out there um I I finished second which was which was really pretty awesome yeah I got beat by a 14 year old um and I remember being in practice and I'm

is a shifter cart not only if you've ever driven a shifter car it's a lot more work than than a regular cart because you're driving with one hand and then kind of shifting with the other so it takes a lot of physical strength in general to race a cart, but when you have to take one hand off the wheel and shift, it takes a lot more strength. And so I'm out, I'm running, and I'm just gassed, right? I think I'm in good shape, but I'm not in carting shape. And this cart passes me. And I remember having this this thought, I'm like, man, that's a little guy. Like, you know, I'm like, he's like, he's not very tall. I'm like, and I'm not tall. So for me to say that, that's a lot. And so, but you can't, you know, you can't really tell. They have a dark visor on their helmet. And we pulled off the track and,

And, you know, I'm kind of sizing him up because he passed me. And so I'm like, I want to figure out who this is. So I know when the race starts, like, who's who? And I'm like, boy, he's not very tall. And he took his helmet off. And I'm like, well, damn, he's like 10. I'm like, oh, my Lord. And so, you know, I friended him over the weekend because we were racing together.

But I think he was 14 at the time. And he ended up winning. So, but it was fun. I mean, man, go-karting is just, it's as much fun racing-wise as you can have. Yeah, I think. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Did you ever run ovals in your go car? I did a little bit. It was mainly dirt. There was no pavement. Actually, the track the Chili Bulls run on. So I grew up 90 miles from where the chili bowl is run. And you know this because I think your nephew might have went and run the shootout, the Talsa's shootout. So I ran the Tulsa shootout back in the 90s when it was just started and it was a dirt oval.

And it was in the winter and we would go run that every year. Yeah. I didn't like dirt racing. Really? No. I mean, I don't. I know that we've known each other for a long time. I don't know if you know my OCD.

I like things really clean. Yes, I do. And I don't like dirt. So I'm never into it. That makes sense, I guess. Even on, I mean, just like, just dirt in general, like getting on you or your card or you just. I just, like, I just was never really into dirt racing. Yeah.

I mean, it was, it was as much about the pit area as it was racing on the track. Everything was dirty. It's just a different environment. Not the most hygienic place that you've ever seen. It was not the cleanest area I had been to now. So talk about your, you had a ton of success racing go-carts early on. Hundreds of races and- 10,000 races if I was Denny Hamlin, right?

Championships and everything's going great. What presented the opportunity to get into a full-bodied car? Well, I always wanted to race, right? I mean like probably very similar to you know to kids that are out there racing right now. I'm like in NASCAR, I feel like, you know, I've thought about this a lot because my kid's going to have much different opportunities than what was presented to me. And I think about you, you know, growing up with who your dad was. And it's it's such a different environment to be this kid from Missouri that has no tie to NASCAR and doesn't come from a family with with a tremendous. us amount of money like you know you're like well how's that what's that path you know i don't know

what that path's going to be i was really fortunate that i kind of joked around earlier you know talking about my dad like bar you know buying and selling my dad was a good salesman always on the phone always always always working a deal and you know the when i became old enough to to to move on from carts i remember my dad somehow coming up with this i mca modified which was which was a dirt car and we converted it. We put a sway bar on the front of it and put a windshield in it, and we made it an asphalt modified because they raced those not far from us. And I remember in the wintertime,

going to this guy's house out in the middle of nowhere in Missouri to a barn, and there was an engine in the corner, and my dad had bought this engine, and we take this home, and we put this whole car together, and we end up racing it the following year at a track in Lebanon, Missouri. It was called I-44 Speedway, and had some success and I bring up that track because the guy that owned that track was

was really who helped get my career going from my parents. The guy that owned that track, their name was, it was the Willard family. His name was Bill Willard. And there was a guy that raced there, not in Modifieds, but in late models named Larry Phillips. You're going to recognize that name, right? Like just incredible short track racer. And he would literally win every night. Like they would make him start dead last, and it wasn't if he would win.

The bet in the stands would be how many laps until he could get to the lead. It was just, it was unbelievable, like how fast he was. So they always would try to bring people in to outrun him. And in hopes that if they could find somebody that would outrun him, that more people would show up to the races, right? Yeah. So I had a little bit of success. I won some modified races. I was young.

And I remember the Willard family calling. and they're like, hey, we, we didn't have the money to run a late model. It was just, that wasn't in the cards. And I knew that. And I didn't really know what the next step was going to be, but Mr. Willard called, called my dad, or maybe he called me. I don't remember exactly how it went down. And they're like, would you like to drive a car for us next year?

And of course, you're like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, this is the next step. So I moved from Joplin, where I grew up, like, it's like 100 miles or something, I'm like up to up to lebanon, Missouri. And I kind of went full time. Like I was, I was working on this building late models, you know, building this car or servicing this car every week. And then racing it on the weekends. And I was really fortunate.

I was able to, you know, be really competitive that year. And I mean, for me, I remember, I remember I made $286 a week. That's what they paid me. And it was more money than I'd ever made. And I'm like, I'm getting a race and I'm making all this money. and I had an apartment. I just, I had, like, life was complete for me at that time. And so that was really kind of the step that got me to, you know, keep moving on.

So what was your career like? What kind of racing did you do? Where did you race between, you know, that moment in your truck opportunities? So I ran late models, and it's kind of foggy to me. I don't remember the exact timeline, but I ran late models for a couple of years locally in Lebanon, Bolivar, Missouri. for the Willard family. And then Bill's son David became more invested in the racing part of it.

And he was like, hey, I'd like to go. It was called Art Go at the time. I don't know, I don't even think it's around anymore. I think they turned into like ASA or some type of a NASCAR touring series. But Art Go was like the late model touring series in the Midwest. Like Kinseth was running that. Joe Shear was a part of it. Steve Carlson.

and there were some really big names. And it toured. And it was really like they came to Missouri, but there was one race in Missouri. There was like a couple of races in Illinois. And it was like a lot of races in Wisconsin. And I thought I was pretty good. And then I went and I met all these guys.

And I realized I wasn't as good as I thought. They were all really good. And they were getting to run on tracks they'd all run on before. I would show up to, you know, whether it was Rockford or lacrosse, you know, I would show up these places. And you'd get like an hour of practice. you go qualify and you have to race them and that was a big challenge but i did like a year of of art go at the time and there was a guy named mike mittler who that name's going to be

recognizable because that's who's truck team i drove for first he reached out to my dad because he knew that i had been racing against larry phillips and that i'd had a little bit of success uh racing against him and he was like hey i'd like for jamie to drive my truck and i don't remember how old i was but i just remember my dad had told him he's like look he's said, I really want Jamie to get to go do that. But I don't think he's ready. I just, I don't want him to go there until, you know, until he can, until I think he's mentally there, you know, it's ready to be a part of that.

But there's a guy from, they wanted me to run I-70 because I had raced there a little bit. And he's like, but there's a local guy named Rick Beebe that would do a really good job for you. And so Mittler told my dad, he's like, listen, he's like, I really appreciate you not just passing Jamie off onto me. and, you know, helping me find somebody to run my truck at this track, whenever you think he's ready, call me.

And he's like, we'll give you an opportunity. So it's about a year later. What I was doing with the Willards, we had done the local thing, we had done the Art Go Racing. That was kind of running out. I was kind of at the end of that, and my dad called Mike Miller, and Mike's like, yeah, you know, I'll give him a shot.

And so I moved from Lebanon, Missouri to St. Louis, Missouri and I started working for Mike Midler and working on his trucks. Yeah, he had a shop. It was awesome. It was this, I think it was a quick trip like the gas station, like an old one. And they had like gutted it and it was not anything fancy, but Mike built the engines. So there was a dino room. And when I got there, he had recently like in the years just before I got there, he had bought Ricky Rudd's old cup program like a bunch. He went to like an auction. And so there was like milk crates of like brakes and oil lines and just just a lot of stuff right and when we built something we just went over to like the find it that was the parts bin right like find something that'll work and

you would go kind of bolt it on um and they had a brand new truck when i got there and it was just a chassis and i and i remember mike was like we're going to put that together and he's like that's going to be your project and so i i i had grown up working in in in race car shops and so i mean i could do I really like fabricating and I'm I'm pretty good at it like I can I can make most things and so I was like all right we're gonna I've never built a truck I've built some late models we're just going to figure it out and so um over the course of like the next year driving for Mike we built this brand new truck and um I bring up that brand new truck because I had really just about bolted every single piece on it hung the body on it like I'd done it all and we went to Kentucky and we were

We were pretty fast. It was like one of the first years that they, that Kentucky was around. We were pretty quick in practice. And I don't remember who, but somebody blew an oil line and I hit this oil. And as I was spinning in practice, I'm like, God, don't hit anything. I'm like, because I don't know how much work it was to put this thing together. And I don't want to put it back together. And I just did this amazing feat of not hitting the wall.

And I get stopped. And I'm like, dang right. I'm like, not going to have to fix this thing. Where's victory lane? I think that I think we're, I think, yeah, I think we're going to be good. and they hooked a tow truck to a tow truck up to it and they towed it all the way back to the garage and we get in the garage and I don't know what made the guy running the tow truck want to back up but he chose to like he thought he was going to back the truck like into the garage stall

and when he did he knocked the hood both fenders the great I'm like and I was standing there when it happened and I'm like I might kill this guy yeah I'm like I'm so mad yeah so anyway that was kind of my next step with was doing the truck stuff the thrill of the racetrack like you're in the driver's seat with Draft King's Sportsbook. Bet on your favorite racers and feel the rush of every pass, pit stop, and victory like never before. Right now new customers can turn five bucks into 200 instantly in bonus bets. Bet five on anything to score big no matter what goes down on the track.

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21-plus age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. See dkng.com slash auto racing for eligibility terms and responsible gaming resources. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance, eligibility, and deposit restrictions apply. One of the things that I was looking at is I remember this. I remember you coming in to NASCAR. And I remember thinking about, I remember thinking about it back then about how quick you went through the ranks to the Cup series. It probably didn't feel quick.

Nope, not at all. Probably felt like it took forever, right? Because you're like grinding through every second, right, trying to make sure you're doing what you need to do. But in front of everyone else, it's like, man, you got the Bush opportunity in a very quick part. And then that turned into a cup opportunity really quickly. Because you got in that bush car for Bruko, and that's the first car you drove in the Bush series, right? Ran really good.

Was that the Williams Travel Center? Yeah, two years. Yeah. And I raced you one particular time at Richmond. Oh, yeah. Dirtied me. I remember. What?

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. OCD, if you dirty him, he remembers it. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I had the Gossamer car. The what? The Gossamer car.

What's that? The Looney Tunes. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And my car was freaking ridiculous, right? Yeah.

And we had a mid-race restart. He's running really good, running second. And we got the green flag, and we go down into one and two. And, I mean, he's on my door for, like, three laps. And I finally had to back up. And he leads. And I'm like, like, I thought I was just going to go on by him and drive away, right? The car had been that good all night.

And I'm like, damn. I had to back up. and kind of like a regroup and then try to pass him again, not knowing whether I was really going to get it done or not. So I think it's really funny that you think that happened fast because my first year of Bush for Brucho was the year your dad was killed at Daytona, and I felt like everyone at Brucho thought I was scared after that. And I say that because you remember all the headrests that came out, like, shortly after that and seatbelts and Hans device.

Like, all this stuff came out. And I wanted all of it. And it wasn't because I was scared. I just wanted to be safe, right? And I was kind of adamant. And I wanted it in every car, not just, you know, at one time we're like, oh, we'll just put it in the super speedway car. We won't worry about short. I'm like, no, I want this in every car, right?

And I wasn't having the success. And I remember they were like, I just remember they're like, he must be scared. And I'm like, man, I'm like, my career is going to be over before it ever starts, you know. Fortunately, I did just well enough as that year went on to kind of get to stay there for another year. And then the following year, I had a little bit more success. It was so much, I don't want to say harder because I don't think that's fair to guys in the Xfinity series now. all, man, when they had 20 cup guys in all those bush races, it just was different. Yeah.

I mean, you could run, you could run 30th and maybe be the best normal bush guy. Yeah. Like Jeff Green would always run up front, but man, it was different then. Yeah, we go to Charlotte. There'd be 17 or 20 cup guys, and there'd be two regulars in the top 20. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, it was wild.

Yeah, and it's another thing that was like, I didn't think it was ever fair is that all the cup guys got. gotten better cars. Like, they got to get in all the, like, cut-backed cars on top of them being better drivers,

you know? Yeah, that conversation comes around every year, and that was my opinion, is like, so Kyle Bush, right,

he's an amazing race car one of the best, right? One, most of his races driving the Gibbs cars, which are great race cars. And that year

where he drove his own cars, he looked regular. Normal. Normal. That's right. And it really drove home the fact for me, like, if they want to take the limits and the restrictions away, great. But all these guys need to start their own teams. Totally.

Yeah, absolutely. Even if they do have that access, like we do with Hendrick, like start your own team, run it all out of your own shop. Right. It's a lot different. It is different. It's a lot different, yeah, for sure. Help me recollect something from that time, because I have a bit of a vantage point being that my first year was 02, and I was with James Finch's team.

And I remember you coming in. I remember you running that Williams travel car, but then at some point you're at Gannasi or you're also running for Finch. I also remember there being some sort of turmoil between Finch and Jimmy Spencer that ultimately led him, and obviously Chip Gannasi.

What do you remember and how did you end up? Because you were running that Finch car the next year, I believe. So I ran for Bruko in 01, 2002. And then when I left Bruko, that's when I went to Ganassi in 03. So that would be the first year that I ran for Finch would be 03. Because then there was an affiliation between Chip and James Finch. I believe there's some. Well, I think that initially it was that Jimmy drove for Finch and Ganassi.

Remember he was in the target car. I'm kind of remembering with you. Yeah. But they also became partners in some land. And they were friends, right? I mean, like that's, I think, more than anything, they were just, they were friends. Yeah. And then when they cut Jimmy loose, they being Chip and Finch, you were now an employee of

Chip Ganassi racing. And so therefore, you probably just kind of naturally ended up running that yellow transportation car a couple times. Is that right? I ran it a lot. I think I ran. I remember you winning in it. I remember I probably ran 25 first races a year.

It was that. first four or five years of my cup career. I ran every companion race is what I remember. But that was normal. Everybody did. That was the same type of schedule. Jeff Gordon didn't do it. Like there was, when I first came in, and you would remember this, like it wasn't cool to go run Bush.

Like Jeff Gordon's not running Bush. Like he ran like one every four or five years or something. So, but when you were new, it was experience. And the cars, I feel like they related more than what clearly know what they would now. but at the time, I mean, that's just what everybody did. And then it was almost like, I think, I don't know if it would have been Kyle Busch, maybe Kevin Harvick. Some of those guys then made it cool to, like, go back and run Bush and do both of them.

Yeah, I remember Jeff coming and running five races in the Pepsi car in 99, and I was like, hell, yes! Oh, I know. I was so damn pumped up. And he came down there and he's like, these things drive like shit. I'm not doing this. I'm not going to do this. After this five races is up, I'm going back to my cup car.

That's so good. all. He won Phoenix, but didn't want to drive him more after that. So you, you know, you get into the, you get, at Ganassi, you're supposed to go drive this 42 car full time, but then Sterling gets hurt. Sterling's leading the points. Like, Sterling's got a legit shop in the twilight of his career. It went into championship. And we talked about it on the show here where he broke his neck in Kansas. They put you in the car, your first race Talladega. I don't remember much about that or maybe you don't either, but the second race at Charlotte, you win. Yeah, so what I remember about all of that is that I was supposed to run my first race,

not for Ganesi, but for Melling Racing. And Chad Canouse was the crew chief. Stacey Compton. And I don't know if you remember, they sat on the pole at every, because they have like this truck arm mechanism. It was way cheated up. And I was so excited. I'm like, I can't wait to drive that thing at Talladega, because I know we're going to be on the pole. I'm like, I don't think I've ever had a poll in the Bush series. I'm going to have a pole in the damn cup series, my first race because I'm getting in that car. So I was supposed to drive that car and Havelin, I believe, was going to sponsored. It's a little foggy.

And Sterling gets hurt. And Andy Graves called me in his office. And he's like, listen, he said, you know, we think if you're good enough to drive our car next year, we want you to drive the 40 car. I believe it was a week-to-week basis at the time. I don't think we were sharing how hurt Sterling really was. And I just was like, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like it's incredible opportunity, but I was also really nervous. I got to be honest.

I had a motorhome for the first time in Talladega, that first cup race. And I had a girlfriend staying with me in that motorhome. If you've ever stayed in a motorhome, you know the walls are pretty thin. And there's just not a lot of room. And I spent, I bet, 75% of the weekend in the Port-a-John next to my motorhome. because I was so nervous. Like I just, I mean, like my nerves were, I just, I wasn't scared. I just wanted to do well.

And I knew that I was in a good car. And the thing is for me, when I was at Bruko, even though Casey Atwood had won a couple of races in that car, the expectations weren't, we're going to win every single weekend, right? It was like good cars, we have pretty good engines, but you weren't, you weren't like, you have to win. When I went and got in Sterling's car, he was leading the points at the, or he might, had just fallen out of the lead, but like he'd won some races, right? And, and they, it was legitimately like getting in one of the best cars. And, and that was nerve-wracking to me. And so

we ran Talladega. I had never made a green flag pit stop in my life. And that race ran caution-free. So we ran the entire race. The entire race, caution-free. There wasn't caution. And I ran, I mean, the car was super fast. I ran really well and ran out of gas. on like, I think one, I don't know if it's the last stop or next to last of it, but ran out of gas and I don't remember where I finished. And I remember everybody was pretty excited. And I told them, I was like, hey, I just want you to know, I'm like, we're going to Charlotte next week. If I had to pick my worst track, that's it. Like there's no, I'm like, I'm pretty intimidated by it. I struggle there. It's just not a good track for me. And Glover, I loved Tony Glover.

He just had these, he had these little mannerisms and things he would say. And it just, just he would make you feel at home and he's like little buddy it'd be all right he's like you know he said we got a really good set up for that track you know sirling dominated it in the spring i don't remember it was but he's like little buddy it'd be just fine don't worry and i was like okay you know so we go to charlotte and i had never driven a cup car on a it only been at speedway right it's super speedway and i remember leaving the pits in qualifying trim on friday and i exit turn two and you're in like second year and i started like rolling them the throttle and the throttle pedal felt about this long and I got about this much of it down I was like

this thing is fast I'm like I've never and I'm like I'm not even wide open yet and I shifted to third and I'm like oh my god I still have a whole other gear to go and my eyes were the size of the tires I get to fourth gear and I miss turn three bouncing up the track and and and I make it to mock run right they sent me out in qualifying trim the first time come in they cool it down and glove comes down to the window because it was an interesting dynamic because Lee McCall was a crew chief, but Glover kind of made the calls. They kind of worked it together. And he's like, hey, we're going to cool it down, you know, blah, blah, go make you another run. I go out and I'm, I think I was 40th on the sheet of those. And I remember it rained out qualifying. It rained. And I remember

Glover after practice is like, little buddy, I think you might have been honest with me before we got to Charlotte. He's like, I kind of struggle here on. I'm like, yeah, Glove, I'm like, I told it's a really hard track from him. And I think it was him or somebody in the team was like, you can't drive through the bump and turn three. And in my mind, I'm like, what bump? I don't even know what the hell they're talking about. Like, there's a bump. Like I, I, I, and so they took me on top of the truck and they, they pointed to turn three and there was like a little patch, and they're like, you're hitting that. You got, you can't hit that bump. You got to stay out later. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, okay. Like, I don't, I don't even know that I've ever seen that bump on

the racetrack. And that's, I definitely didn't see it in that. cup car because I was going 4,000 miles an hour. So it rains out, it rains out qualifying. The next day we go in and the way the schedule was then, I don't know why, but we did like practice for the bush car or maybe we just started the bush race. And I left the pits and I'm like, this thing's a turd. I'm like, this has no power. And I got to turn three and I'm like, oh, I see the bump right there. And I went around it. And I don't remember where I started in the bush race, but I was running third. Like maybe one of my best bush races ever and I'm like I'm pretty fast all of a sudden right and I think I blew up in the bush race but I'm like oh my god I can see that bump now because things slowed down for me right like

I went from 4,000 miles an hour to kind of normal speed and all of a sudden I could see things well we started the cup race the next day and I'm like I'm pretty fast because I'm driving around this bump and and our cars fast and I don't remember how we cycled to the front but all of a sudden it just kind of all clicked for me and I and I you know I had never won't I'd never want a truck race. I'd never won a bush race. And I'm I just remember I'm leading the the cup race and we had to do like another green flag pit stop. And and I'm like, oh my God, like it's just all surreal. Like all this, this moment that's getting ready to happen. I'm like, I can't believe it. And I will never forget crossing the start finish line and Glover coming on

the radio. And he's like, all right, little buddy, next one back to start finish line is a winner. and I'm like, oh my God, just don't mess it up. And Bobby Labani had started to catch me, but I'm like, he's not going to pass me. I know he's not going to pass me. And when that race was over, I'd never got to do a burnout. And I'd watch all these people do burnouts. And I'm like, I cannot wait to get to do a burnout.

And not only a burnout, a burnout at Charlotte on the front stretch. And it was this magical night because there was no wind. And so I started doing this burnout and I couldn't see. And I've got this picture at home, like the smoke just kind of stayed there. And it was just like, for me, you know, there's few things that you remember in life, like throughout, or throughout your life. But there's some things that are just, like, crystal clear. And that's one of those for me. Do you ever rewatch those races? It was the last time you would watch that race?

Tell the truth. So, because I do TV, they replace some of those moments for me. Not, not, and they do it, not telling me they're going to do it to get, like, that reaction from you. So I have seen those. And, like, Bobby and I maybe did a hub. together and they replayed that moment. And it's kind of fun now to like look back with him and see all that. But it's funny because like what I remember out of my eyes isn't sometimes what I see on the TV. You know like it, I'm like, well, that's not how I remember it.

And I know that that's actually how it happened, but that's not always how I saw it out of my eyes. Yeah. I watch a lot of old races. I watched the, I watched the 98 Vegas race where he run second to Jimmy Spencer. Yeah. I watched half of it and I didn't get all the way through it for something. Yes, Bush.

Okay. I watch a lot of the races that I was in to try to remember, like, I know I run second. I remember running second, but I don't remember how the race went. Totally, yeah. Well, I watched 2004 Martinsville was on a couple. Yes. A week ago. I watched it.

I'm like, oh, my God. And it's funny because I watched it, and I watched it more to see how they opened the show. Like Darrell was on the racetrack, and he's like, this is concrete. and it's Porsche and it's rubber and it's and and I I just like I probably remember watching that live and like it was super like state of the art TV and like it didn't even fit on my whole TV screen when I said now I'm like I'm lucky it's in color right now but yeah I like you know to go back and see some of those moments yeah so that you know that wins shocked the sport you know everybody's knows who Jamie McMurray is now

Um, your, you know, it kind of, I don't know how you felt. I'm sure it was probably not quite as, uh, anchoring as, as it, as it seemed to everyone else, but it, like, it rooted you in a sport. You're, you're a winner. I always felt like, man, if you can get one win, you can, you can make that a career, right? And so I, I, that was how I was thinking. I was like, man, if I can just win once, I'd get to do this the rest of my life. And so you have, you know, you've got that established.

What was the experience like at Gannasi's the first time around? That's a unique scenario for you because you go to Gannas, you know, you're Gannasi's young prospect, right? And you get developed there and you don't have a great relationship. You leave, but then come back. Not a lot of people, not once the driver gets out of a team, whether he chose to leave or whether the owner decided to go in another direction, and they rarely get back together.

But it says a lot about y'all's relationship and y'all's belief in one another. So talk about that first step. 2003 was, like, awesome for me. We went to Rockingham, the second race. I think I led a lot of it. And Kinseth might have beat me? I don't remember the exact scenario,

but finished in the top five, the second race at Rockingham. You won the Bush race. Yeah, yeah. At that time, at that time for sure, yeah, like four in a row. Yeah. Before Rocky Neum closed, that was a great track. But 2003 overall, we didn't win a race, but like the brickyard, gosh, I was leading that on the, and I lost that race because they had a caution,

and the lap down cars got to line up in front of the leaders in the same line. Do you remember it was the dumbest thing ever that we did back then? I lost the lead on a restart there. We, and the Southern 500 had a chance to win that. Terry Labani won it. And at not, I don't want to say it was all my pit crew, but we just had bad pit stops. Like we would, man, we'd come in leading and go out fifth a lot of races.

But we were really fast. And the thing that Gannasi had back then, everyone I remember when I won Charlotte, they're like, oh, they have traction control. That was, remember that was a, everybody had traction control. Like everybody had track control. Right. They didn't have traction control, right?

What they had, they knew how to cheat body. up. Like, they knew how to put a body on, and we have, like, door wedge and all these things that now you look at, like, for me, I look at a car now, and I'm, I don't know what the hell I'm looking at, but I think I do. They had all that back then. And I remember we went to the wind tunnel after the 2003 brickyard 400, and I would make the number up, but we had 30% more down force than Tony Stewart and whoever the other car was they took, and we had 90 less horsepower. The chassis down on them, We had 90 less horsepower, but we had so much more down for us. And so I just was wide open more than everybody else.

Our car, like we go to Fontana, super fast to Fontana, which you would think so horsepower track, but it was so slick that you couldn't get a hold of it. So 2003 was pretty awesome. 2004 was pretty good. We ran well a lot of races. Never won again, but I think I had the most top tens or top fives of anybody. And it just seems so easy back then. You know, like we'd get in the car and it was just, it was easy, though, those two years.

years. But that success was also the reason I left Gannasi because I was having this success and I had Joe Gibbs, Roush, Roger Penske, had all these people calling me saying, we want you to come drive our car. And that was a time in NASCAR when there was a lot of money, right? A lot of small. Everyone had fully funded cars. And the one thing about driving for Chip when I first went there is I didn't get paid a lot, right? I mean, and I don't fault him at all for that, but because he took a chance.

I mean, I was just glad for the opportunity, but the numbers that people were throwing around, I'm like, okay, turn it down. I don't know. I'm going to talk to all these people, right? And I think that I went back and kind of told Chip what they were going to pay me. And I remember him being like, well, you should definitely do that.

He's like, that's a great opportunity. But we had a little bit of a falling out at the end because I signed a contract to go to Rauch a year before my contract was up. So I had a whole other year left at Ganesi. I remember that. Yeah. So like I, it was weird. I don't know why I did that. I have no idea why I did that.

Did you tell Chip you were going to do it before you signed it? Or did you sign it and then go ask for forgiveness? I don't remember. What I remember about a lot of that, though, and actually I drove by the building coming in here. Rod Moskowitz, most of my agent at the time, and their office was just right up here on the corner. And I remember,

I got everything worked out. I had talked to Gibbs, but at the time, Roush, I mean, they won like, they won like every race that year. And all their drivers won. And I'm like, well,

and they were offering the most money. And I was like, well, this seems like a no-brainer. But I had this little bit of a relationship because I was driving Rusty's Bush car at the time. So, And I would...

Deerflame. And Top Flight. That's right. That's right. My highlights match the logs on there on fire. I remember... I mean, like, because I had that relationship with Rusty, I would like go to Rusty's motorhome before the races and Roger and Kathy Pinsky would be in there and Kathy Pinski would be making

like ham sandwiches. And I'm like, I just remember I'm like, I have officially made it. Kathy Pinsky is making me a ham sandwich before I get in a car to go race. And everybody was just kind of friends, right? So I had this little bit of like kind of a personal relationship with, with Rusty and kind of with Rogers through him. And when I pulled into Rod's office, I'd already agreed I'm going to Rausch. You want to sign this deal?

My phone rings. And I don't know the number, but I answer it. And it's like, Jamie, this is Roger Pinsky. And I'm like, yeah, hey, Roger. And he's like, I'd like for you to come drive the two car. And I'm like, oh my God. I was like, I'm just getting ready to walk in here and sign this deal. And I didn't even know this was an option.

And I'm like, that might be a better opportunity. I don't know. But I just kind of made a decision there. And I was like, Roger, I'm so sorry. I was like, but I'm sitting in the parking lot of essentially my attorney. And I'm going in to sign this deal. And I was like, I'm sorry, I can't do it. So I signed that deal to go to Roush.

And that's in like, I don't remember the exact timeline, but it's in like August or October of a year that I still have another whole year. Well, if you fast forward to November, if you remember Kurt, gets a DWI in Phoenix. Right? Yeah, it gets, and they take him out of the car. And they didn't like him at Roush. There was, there was, at that time, it just, they just didn't like, it was bad. It was really bad. And so they're like, we're going to take him out of the car and they're like, we want to put you in there sooner. And so I'm like going to Gannasi and like, hey, can you let me have my deal? And shift's like, I'm letting you out your deal. We got a deal. But the one, if anything that I learned from any car owner. What I learned from Chip is you never react fast, right? You

you see what the offers are and you just kind of sit back and wait. And he was the most patient guy ever, whether it was with, you know, sponsorships. Like if a sponsor left, I would be like freaking out. And he's like, let's just see what happens. You know, he was just really, like, you'd never want to play poker with him. Because he just, just very calm. Everything will work out. And most of the time it did. But I remember, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to get out my deal. And he's like, I'm not letting you out your deal. He's like, we have an agreement. And you left. And you're staying and I remember at some point I'm just super immature but I'm like I don't even like you know I'm like like tell and chip that you know I don't even like you chip and and and and

he's like laughing right like literally it's like yeah whatever right well then it gets kind of complicated because because roush wants to fire kurt well Roger Pinsky wants to hire Kurt but he can't hire Kurt until like I go to Rausch so then I don't remember how it worked out but essentially Penske ends up paying Chip so that I can get out of my deal to go to Rauch so that they can then hire

Kurt to come. It was really really complicated and it's I mean you'd never hear that now but at the time it was unbelievable so I got to go there a year early holy smokes I guess of all that story by the way it's a little surprising that you and Chip have such a good relationship being that you said I don't even

like you well he knew he knew So here's the deal. When I was with Gannasi the first time through, I didn't have a good relationship with him. He was an owner and I just, there was no relationship. It was, I mean, we just, we didn't, we didn't talk on the phone. Like it just, it just, there wasn't really a relationship there. When I went back, he became like one of my best friends. Yeah.

Because when I went back, they didn't have a sponsor sold and we worked together to get that car funded. And, and then we won the dates. So we win these races. Like we all of a sudden became, I mean, Chip became one of my better friends, and I would still consider him one of my better friends. But a lot of that is because when we came back together, we kind of needed each other. You needed each other. Yeah.

I did not know Chip at all, really, until recently, like in the last couple of handful of years. And I don't know him, but when I do see him, he's super cool. We had him come in here and sit down and do a show with us. and I don't know if he's changed as a person, but the guy that I've gotten to know in the last handful of years is a really nice, neat, unique person. He's done a lot. He has done a lot in racing in general,

and, you know, he just, I mean, I know him on such a more of a personal level, right, than what you would in your little interaction with him. But I would just say, you know, Chip is the person you think you know is who he is. He's super genuine. And just, you know, I really enjoyed getting to drive for him. What I would tell you, if I were to say, you know, Chip was the kind of car owner that when you won, he might call and say good job or

congratulate, or he might not call. But if you screwed up or if the car blew up or if the pick crew didn't get a good job, he would be the first person to call you, probably on Sunday night, and be like, hey, we're going to fix it. And don't worry about it. We believe in you. He always, as a driver, made me feel wanted. And that is, without a doubt, the number one thing that any car owner can do. Yeah. Good point. During the past few months, our friends at Lionel Racing have been busy making the new late model diecast tools important to Lionel that fans can get diecast cars that accurately represent what's running. on the racetrack. And that's also important to race teams, drivers, and to me personally.

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promo code late model 23, you'll get free shipping. So check out the 2023 late model diecast on offer at lionelracing.com and be sure to use late model 23 to get free shipping on your purchase. So how did you become good at Super Speedway racing? So I asked that question because a lot of people, you know, there's a lot of people out there think that it's just luck. But I always say when when, when, when, when, I was racing and now,

um, always the same guys up at the front of the race. The same guys get lucky a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you were one of those. It was me, Denny,

you, Kurt Busch. There was like this little six pack or eight pack of drivers that I knew we're going to be at the, you know, trying to make the right move in those last 10 laps. I don't know would be my just direct answer to you. But what I remember and I talked about this

a second to go with Bruko is that at Bruko you really weren't thought of as a contender every week. But I knew early on that anyone could win those races. Like, you know, all the cars were, not the all the cars were the same, but it just seemed like I had a lot better chance when I got to a super speedway than I did at a mile and a half or than at a short track. And it, I don't know, that all kind of clicked for me in the Bush series. And I think the one thing that I was good at is I wasn't selfish. I didn't care if I led. So when they would start these races, I feel like some guys all are like, I just want to get to the front lead. I don't know that throughout my career, whether it was at maybe at Roush, I got to have the fastest car sometimes.

but I don't know even at Gannasi that I ever got to have like the fastest car so I knew my best opportunity to get to the front was to push a fast car and so my mindset at all those was to find somebody fast and just commit to them and and that's what I would do

and so like you saying to me like you thought that I would do well right everyone wants to help that guy you know and so if you take like five or six guys that are in this pool that they're going to do well, and you take the other 35 guys, they're all willing to help those five. And so when you made a decision or a move,

got help. They would go with you, right? I mean, and I think the other thing that played in my favor is I got along with everybody. Yeah. Because I remember Kurt Busch, just, he was furious at Elliott Sadler years ago because at the end of one of the races,

I pulled out and Elliot had a decision to help me or to help Kurt Busch, and he helped me. And Kurt's like, we're both with Ford, why would you not help me? And I don't remember Elliot's answer, but in my mind, I'm like, I know why. He liked me more. You know, like, and that's kind of how that works. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So you, I know you know this, but there's a banner in this building with your name on it. You race in the Xfinity Series for us. I need, we were, I don't remember exactly what the scenario that we had, we were between drivers or whatever and we needed some help. We went to a bunch of drivers. I remember that year.

Tony Yuri Sr. got mad at somebody. Yeah. That didn't narrow it down at all, by the way. Right. But yeah, we went through a bunch of drivers. I think you ran Atlanta or something, right? Yes. We had a, Elliot ran a race for us, and there was like a little, we had a lot of fun.

We got to get our buddies and go racing. But a funny story about that, not so funny in the moment, but Jamie wins the race, right? I'm on, I'm at the house, or I'm somewhere watching it on TV. I left. So that, but so like I feel like, because you called me or something after that. I don't know what was going. Man, I'm sorry. And I was like, well, I'm not, I wasn't like in Victory Lane going, where the hell's

day? That's not true. Oh, I did say that? Yes. Oh, I don't remember that. I'm looking at the TV. I'm like, hell, yeah. I don't know why I left.

I don't really remember, but I left for whatever reason. And we had like a morning to 9 to 10 or 9 to 11 practice and then we were done the rest of the day. And I went home for a reason, but I'm not sure what. but he wins the race and I'm watching on TV and I'm like, hell, this is a, it's a freaking amazing dude. He's freaking won. And we've been putting all these guys, all our buddies in the car for like a couple weeks.

And Elliot was at Dover and he reacted. I was so disappointed because I was like, man, I wanted to win with all of y'all. And Turex wrecked it, just wrecked our, wrecked at Bristol, I think. But you win and I'm like, hell yeah.

And he gets out of the car and he looks at Tony Singer and he goes, you saw him mouth it i heard him i saw him mouth it and i don't remember that i went i don't remember that i don't remember that all i remember about that weekend was in practice we pulled out and and and that old atlanta was so slick and and and i ran like three laps and i'm like i'm going to spin out and i came in and and and i told paus i was like i need a big change and he's like like what and i'm like five percent of wedge and he and he and i'm like five percent of wedge and he and he and I just remember he's like, you know, looked at me like, you're an idiot. And I'm like, I just need a lot.

And I don't remember if we put 5% in or I got out, they scaled, they put a bunch in. And I went out and I was pretty fast. And I remember I was like, we need that much again. And I just remember he's like, you know, no way. And then we ended up winning the race. And I just like, that was a fun moment. I really enjoyed because I ran a few races for you. And I got to work with Pops and Tony Jr.

And that was fun for me because of the, you know, you'd worked with them. And I'd seen them over all these years. And it was super relaxed. Their characters. Totally characters, yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. Crazy that he just left Tony Jr.'s wedding the other night.

Like, Tony Jr. just got married. Really? Yeah, he's, he, they've been, him and his wife's been in a relationship forever, but they finally decided to make it official. But yeah. One would think, Dale, one would think that being as good as you were at plate racing and as good as you were, Jamie,

that you guys would either race each other or be working together. Did y'all ever have those opportunities that stick out, whether you were racing each other or working with each other at the end? I ran second to you at the Daytona 500 once when you won with Chip. But I just remember always knowing that, I mean, he was just always in the top five.

When it was come down to it and it was, you know, everybody that was going to be there was there. He was there. There he was. Yeah. And, you know, I don't remember us. I'm sure there were some moments where we were duped it out. Yeah, I don't remember that either.

But there weren't anything to really stand out. The Daytona 500 sticks out. Yeah, that's, yeah. I was, everybody talks about, in my timeline, people talk about, you know, my career, my races and stuff like that. And they were talking about that one. And they're like, man, another lap, because I had these new tires. I remember, yeah.

Well, so there was two green white checkers, like, though, I think. And there was one that I was like, I come in and got tires, and I was like 29th or something. And if the race goes green, I run 15th. Right. And the wreck happened that gave me that opportunity to get up through there. So I remember that it's funny, the three green white checkers, that was the very first race that they did that. Yeah. They're like, we're going to do three green white checkers.

And I remember, they said that in the driver's meeting. And I looked over and I told Bono, I'm like, that's a dumbest thing they could ever do. I'm like, we're just going to crash, crash, crash. And that's the only reason I won the day two to five owners is because we had three of them. Yeah, that was great. I worked with Bono. Bono and you worked together in your second stand at Ganassi. I worked with Bono in 1997 in a couple of my first Bush races.

And he worked with DEI for a long time. That's where he ends up when DEI emerges with Ganassi. Great guy. Totally. Did you enjoy working with him? I really did. And he, you know, he was so intense. Really?

I felt like he was, yeah, I mean, always, and I liked that he had that modified and that like his passion was, you know, like when he had time off, he didn't go to the lake. Like he went to his shop and he worked on this modified. And there was, you know, Gary worked on the team as well, was the car chief. And Gary would work on the model. They had this modified together. Actually, I think they owned it together. And so that whole team, you know, it kind of reminds me of like what priest has going on right now where those guys when they're not doing. Cup stuff they're at preces shop working on oh yeah so yeah i really enjoyed uh enjoyed

enjoyed working with him and he he did a he was really good at calling races you know like the the doing two tires the brickyard 400 to get the win that was that was his call to to do that my teammate won did four obviously it didn't didn't work out i photo was was was good at at you know prior to having all this the simulation and and you know analytics that they have on pit calls now. He was, you know, a real crew chief at the time and did it based on a little bit of gut and then kind of the history of what he knew. Yeah. You wind your career down. How did that happen? How does your career, like it's all, I'm always kind of fascinated by the decisions that are made, the conversations, the hard conversations that are had. What, what, I remember being with you at Pocono

and I walked up to you and I said, neither one of us were having a really good afternoon. It was like a Friday or Saturday practice. And I said, man, I think I'm about, I think this next year is it. And you were like, really? And I was like, yeah, I believe this is, I believe I'm about to be done. And you were like, hmm. And I mean, you were kind of taken aback by that conversation.

I'll never forget that conversation we were having. And you were trying to contemplate yourself. you're like, I really don't think I'm even thinking about it. And I think you went maybe another year or two. So like, how does that process happen for you? Well, not 100% my decision. I was in Canada on a fishing trip with no cell service. Is it none?

Zero. I was doing an appearance for Cessna. We'd go on this salmon fishing trip. We did it the last four or five years. And my agent, Rod, called me. and he left me a voicemail, which I was able to listen to, and he's like, hey, I really need you to call me. I'm like, all right. So I finally got to where I get some service. And I'm like, hey, what's up? And he's like, well, he's like, the rumor is Kurt Busch is going to Ganassi and he's taking monster with him and blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, my God, this is just, I'm like, I'm like, I'm understanding this correctly. I don't, I can't process it. and if you think back there was Target had left DC Solar deal had blown up Chip Chip had been through some like I mean some tough times and it I think he'd put a lot of his own money into the team and so I just remember I finally got to where I could talk to Chip and I'm like what's going on and he's like you know Kurt's you know I don't know how much money it was but bringing this monster money over and he's like I just I got to do what's right for the company right and and and and and he's like you know and and he's like you know He was, so I say that in that, I don't know that I was, I don't know that I ever would have

just said I'm done. I think I would have rode it out as long as I could, right? Because I didn't know any different. Now, I say that because in hindsight, it just couldn't have went any better for me. and I think that anyone that raced like that for so long that when it's first over, you feel like your life's over, right? Like, you're like, I don't know any different. Like, all I know is I'm going to Daytona testing.

I'm doing sponsor appearances. I'm just, you just don't know any different life. And I was really fortunate because I've watched friends over the past five. years, 10 years that have stopped driving be unhappy and not fulfilled. And I've watched him struggle trying to find the next thing. TV gave me that thing, right, like where I still got to be involved. So to back up, it wasn't 100% my decision, but I have learned in life to always be happy with what you have and not try to wish that you could always have like the next thing or that something else, you know, can work out.

And getting to do TV, it has let me still be involved. And I'm telling you, if, I wouldn't say there's no amount of money, because there probably is a certain amount of money. But I wouldn't go back and do it. Yeah. I just, I can't, the commitment, the stress, the everything that goes along with doing that every single weekend, I don't want to do that again. Yeah.

Yeah. Like I think when I would agree with you, I wouldn't want to do it again either. We didn't know any better when we were doing it now that we know better. You don't know any better. Yeah. My son, who is 12 now, he'll be 13 soon, he asked me, he goes back and watches races on YouTube or interviews with me. And every once in a while he'll come out and he'll ask me a question.

I'm like, I'm not sure where you got this question at or like where you're heading, right? Yeah. But just the other day, we were driving along in the car. Our whole family is cruising. And he's like, he's like, hey, dad, if you could go back in your career, what's something you'd do different? And before I could say anything, my wife turns around, looks at him and she goes, he'd have fun. And I was like, I looked at her and I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, well, from what I remember the last like 10 years, it wasn't fun. She's like, I just remember you were stressed about sponsors leaving or am I going to have a job or whatever? am I going to do? And I had, I'm like, you're right. And it is fun initially when you, like we talked about when you first come along. And it's fun when you're doing well, but man, a lot of it in fun. Yeah. The 90, the other 90% of the time, it's, it's terrible. It's terrible. You make it terrible, right? When you watch a race, everyone, you're calling a race, and you see the leader, you're like, I miss that, right? You're like, oh, it looks like, so. like Ryan Blaine this weekend, that long run.

Driving his car, passing people on the outside. I'm like, God, damn, right. I'm like, I want to do that, right? But then I watched him catch, I won't call anyone out. I watched him catch somebody, and they let him, got, he had to have got lap four times. And I'm like, I remember that guy too. And that is no fun at all. And there was a lot more of those days than there was the other one.

You're right, yeah. Like, and that's what I always look at. When I think I want to come back, I just watch a race and I watch somebody get lap four times. I'm like, I'm good. You know what? To that point, guys, Blaney even in his post-race interview, couldn't help but not just rest in the victory of the moment, but also relished on the fact that the summer's been awful.

It was brutal. Right, right. I mean, like, you could even see the agony from him, and maybe it was in a bit of a release, but at the same time, you kind of see exactly what you guys are talking about. It's not been a fun ride. That's a good point. I was standing on the back straightaway,

and this happens almost every week, but this particular week at Martinsville, I'm standing on the back straightaway watching the driver, ride around in the trucks for the intro. They are miserable. I hated it. Is that right? Yes.

Well, they look at, I mean, if they're not, they damn sure look like they're pretty miserable. And I'm looking at that going, yeah. I don't miss that. Yeah, that better you than me. Why did y'all hate that so bad? It's the same day every week. It isn't that we hated the act of riding around in that truck? It was every, I mean, honestly, like to Jamie's point, you're going to win

let's just say if you're great, you're going to win 20% of the time, right? So 80% of the time you're mad, you're frustrated because you didn't win. And everything is an obstacle to getting in the car and winning. Everything. An interview, riding in the pace truck,

intros, you know, responsibilities. Hey, Matt Kenseth told me, because he did the 42 car, right, when Larson was out, it was during COVID. it and there was no one at the track. And he told me he's like, Jamie, I would have race until I was 200.

And he said if it was like this or week. He's like, it's unbelievable. He goes, you don't even get to talk to the team. He's like, you show up, you sit in your rental car, you put your suit on in your rental car and he's like, you go race. He's like, it's unbelievable. You don't even have to talk to your team. You don't even talk to your team.

It sounds amazing. That's funny. Yeah. So you mentioned racing with your son. What is that? that is the greatest and most stressful thing I've ever done. It's really rewarding to watch kids work hard and something pay off. I assume you assume as a parent that your kid knows a lot more than they do.

Just little things. I'm like, why would you do that? And he's like, well, I didn't know. And I'm like, well, how do you not know that? And he's like, well, I'm 10. I'm like, okay, that's fair. Got you on that one. But I mean, I have used his racing as a life lesson.

And I say that because I remember the very first race he won. We had spent, I can't tell you how many hours at GoPro or track house, just riding laps, right? Run and laps, run, laps, run, left, run, and he finally won a race. And we get in the car, and I'm like, man, buddy, I am so proud of you. I'm like, you know, slapping him on the leg. I'm like, God, it's unbelievable. You know, I'm so happy you won. And Carter's really quiet.

He's very to himself a lot. And I'm like, what are you thinking about? He's like, well, he said, I feel really bad for Driver X. And I'm like, why is that, buddy? And he goes, well, he said, Dad, he was so slow. He's like, he got lapped. And they black flagged him in the race that he'd won. And I'm like, I said, well, Carter, let me tell you something.

I said, you know, all those days we spent. out here practicing trying to get better. I'm like, that pays off. And I said, that little boy hasn't spent all those time out here. And I said, so what you got to realize is in life, if you want to be good at something, you have to work really hard at it. And if you work really hard, whether it's a sport or whether it's school, whatever it is, the harder you work, the more successful you're going to be. And I said, and so for me, that's what racing is about right now is having fun and join it and trying to teach some lessons to the kid. You did run a race or two for Spire after you finally quit, right?

You finished. Yeah, you finished 8th at Daytona. Is that the final one? And you said to me, it's harder than I remember. I was wondering, I had sort of had this, you know, and I was having the same experience a little bit trying to run some Xfinity races. And the Xfinity races, while it's fun to run good, you go, you expect to run good, you put too much pressure on yourself, and you're, you know, you do have those miserable

moments that you remember. It reminds me of all the reasons why I loved it, but also why I don't do it full time, right? And I wonder in those brief moments that you did run a race or two after your career was, you know, done full time, was that. helpful? Was it helpful to like, 100% help you walk away? 100%. Yeah. I kind of joked around about the story of running a cup car for the first time and going down the backstretch and feeling the acceleration. When I went back, and I don't remember if it was the first or second year run the Daytona 500, when I went back, I remember leaving the pits,

getting about halfway down the backstretch all by myself, like just going out to run some laps, make sure the splitter's not going to hit the ground. And I'm probably only going to 160. And I was like, man, I'm going really fast right now. Like, this seems, this feels really fast. And I know that when I raced, I don't think it ever felt fast. I mean, like, maybe at Bristol or somewhere you're like, ooh, going pretty quick today. But for the most part, like a date so untow and it didn't feel fast.

You just left the pits and you kind of did your thing. And I was like, I don't know, I don't know if I'm able to do this. Like I, in my mind, I'm like, I don't know if I can do this. And then you run a few laps and I got around a couple of cars. And I'm like, okay, I'm more comfortable now. Now, I would say the scary part of all that is that when I got in the draft and I got around people, I was a little scared. I didn't care.

And I don't know if that's good or bad. And I say that in that I was pushing people and I was loose. I'm like, good God, about spun out. I don't care because I want to win. And that kind of scared me in a way because I think to be successful, it has to be that way. But I'm like, I have a pretty good career. And I'm not hurt right now. And I've had moments, Dale, that outside of the car where I'm standing up somewhere and I kind of get like lightheaded and I get scared because I'm like, is that from a concussion or does Mike go through that and never had a concussion?

Like, I don't know. You're analyzing yourself. I'm like, I'm doctor all of a sudden, right? Yeah. And so like in those moments like you think about when you're in the car, you're like, I don't think I want another one of these. So I'm good. Yeah. Do you know if you've ever had any problems?

I've definitely had a concussion. I mean, there's multiple times. As a matter of fact, I wrecked at Dover late in my career. Danica's rear and plug fell out and oil went all over the racetrack in like the first lap of practice at Dover. And, you know, you're running almost not wide open, but you're just like sling throttle. And I hit her oil coming off.

Actually, she spun out, hit the wall. Tony Stewart hit it. He spun out hit the wall. And I hit the wall where there was no safer barrier. And I remember hitting the wall and I'm like, I don't know where I am. and my car stopped, but I hit the wall, like, kind of flush. So my car, it didn't look that tore up. And I was like, I'm not real sure where I am.

And I got out of my car, and I was like, boy, my arm really hurts. And I took my suit down and I had this, like, massive knot. I had this massive knot on my arm about the size of a softball because my elbow would hit the side of the seat. And I was like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't know if that's broken. I don't know what's going on. But I remember in my head, because that's when they started doing those concussion protocols. I remember in my head, I'm like, I'm going to lay low in that infield care center.

And I'm not going to look at anybody. And they didn't really know. They thought that I was just kind of part of the wreck. They didn't really know how to wrecked. And the doctor came over, and I never looked him in the eye because I was kind of cross-eyed. I'm pretty sure. And he's like, you're okay? I'm like, oh, I'm fine.

You know, and I just kind of kept looking down. I was like, I got to get out of here. And he's like, all right. And that was before they did all stuff. And so I left. And when I got on the golf card, I remember my PR guy looked at me. And he's like, are you okay? and I'm like, I don't know.

And because he knew. He knew me, right? And I walked over, I remember, and they were unloading the backup car because practice was still going on. And I walked up in the trailer, and Matt McCall is my crew chief. And he's like, you're all right? And I'm like, yeah. But I remember in my mind, I was like, I don't want to get in that car right now.

I know that. Like, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I imagine there's moments for every driver in their career where they, you know, without the knowledge of what we,

we didn't have the knowledge back then, you know, and I talk about it all the time when I had my first couple of concussions, man, you'd laugh. Yeah. I raked at Daytona 98 and got dizzy and chuckled and said, man, I'm messed up.

You know, it was funny for some reason, which is silly, you know. Well, before kids. Yeah. For a wife. Yeah.

Right. Life's different. Yeah. You thought, oh, someday. I'll be fine. I'm good. This will be two or three days at most. Yeah, I'm going to go drinking, as a matter of fact, on Tuesday.

Damn right. I mean, like that's what I needed, yeah. Yeah, a couple beers off to go fine. Here's what I find interesting, though, is it like when you would come back and do those one-off races here and there? Like, I think that that's a very real moment of feeling, as you call it, scared in the draft. But there's, I think it's interesting that you went to Daytona to do those races, whereas Dale, you wouldn't be caught dead going back to do a restrictor plate track. Well, that's a different. Like, he's, I went, my career ended because of concussions.

And so, like, I'm not going to go somewhere where that, the 80% chance of crashing. That's my point. Yeah. Right. So he chooses to go there. But he's not dealing with concussions as he's closing his career. Yeah. And that was the opportunities that, like, if they would have said, do you want to do the Daytona 500 or do you want to do Martin'sville?

I would have chose Martinsville. Really? Oh, yeah. Or, like, a road course. Right. Yeah. Saper. It feels safer.

I just enjoy that more than, I got you. Like, I didn't, I don't know. I mean, like, I mean, it would have, you know, the thing that's enticing about the Daytona 500 is that is the Daytona 500, right? I mean, like, and being able to win, that's a huge deal versus winning, you know, at any other track, really. It doesn't, it doesn't have the same, same meaning. I think that's a good point, though. You didn't actually get to, like, go pick and choose. I wasn't like, hey, I want to go run that race.

Yeah, okay, fair enough. Right, right, right. That's just kind of how the situation fell. Yeah. And in all fairness, when I flipped at Talladega, my last year, I remember in the race, I'm like, I'm never, ever going to get in a super speedway car again. I'm like, I said it the whole race. My little zero chance.

Don't all you guys go through that. I mean, like at the restrictor plate tracks, it seems like once you've, you know, now gone through one of those nasty wrecks. And if you do it long enough, you get in it, right? Because Dale, I remember the one time you were like, this is, this is not even cool. I don't enjoy this. No, yeah. Restrictor plate racing changed a lot, though. 100%.

I felt like in 2001, 2004, 2007, I could control my destiny. More. Yeah. As time went on, I lost less control. It was more about, you know, there was just more, there was more potential for crashing. Just continuously. Well, you could reckon the lead now is a difference. Like, I don't feel like that was, that wasn't as common.

I knew where to go to be safe before. Now I'm not sure where you go to be safe. Yeah, nowhere to say. Nowhere to go, right. Nowhere. How, you're 47, all right. Still in great shape, obviously, which we were talking about for a second. But you started biking, running, marathons, and doing all kinds of wild crazy things.

Crazy. Just crazy. Yeah. I mean, you know, you went head first into your health. You did. and you're in amazing shape. So do you ever think, man, I'd do X if the opportunity presented itself? Like, you, like, that one-off somewhere in a bush car or a truck or do you miss?

Like, for me, it was like, man, I'd really love, I had to go back and drive late models again because I just got to, I wanted to experience it because it was like 30 years ago. you know and I'm like that it was pretty fun but I was so scared and nervous I really didn't have fun so I wanted to go back and try it to see if it was really as fun as I thought it should be yeah and he's scared and nervous but I'm still scared and I appreciate your honesty and all that because I I've listened to some of those comments and I think most people at the late model races is like well he's not going to be nervous but we're all scared of yeah I want to be embarrassed we're all scared of that yeah no matter what yeah and yes I would I would totally go back and do that but probably not for the reason you think.

I would go back and do it for my son because... So he could see you? Yeah. I'm going to tell you, man, that is probably the 50 to 60% of the reason why I run the Xfinity races. And I really was doing it for myself until I took my girls. And then I was like, oh, man, you know, I got to keep doing this because she doesn't figure... She doesn't remember. Yeah.

She doesn't get it. She doesn't know why I'm out there. because she thought she's like, okay, hey, dad, yeah, race car, dad. And then the race starts and she's looking at Amy going, well, where's dad? Well, he's in the car? Well, where's he at? You know, she doesn't know there are people in there, right? I know.

And so she's now five and she gets it. Yeah. And so I'm like, oh, got to run another one. I got to run another one, right? Well, I had a team call me a few months ago about a really good team. Dang. About running the Daytona 500 again. And I was like,

I'm like, and my son's like, you gotta do it, dad. And I'm like, Carter, like, somebody to your question, I'm like, I want him to call for the roval or for like, for like, I don't know, just the Coke 600 even, right? Something like that because I would like to go do it, but I'm like, I don't want to do a super speedway again. I'm like, I think that time has passed. Yeah, no, I don't blame you, man.

My vision scares me a little bit too. Yeah. Like I see you have glasses on and I wear glasses quite a bit now because I can't see up close or far away. And I contemplate like, you could I see? Don't wear contacts? I've never tried. Me neither. So your far away vision is not correctable? I don't know. I just, they gave me progressive glasses. And I didn't even know. I didn't know I need them until we were driving down the interstate. And my wife, like, we're driving to Charleston. And she's like, oh, we're 122 miles away. And I said, well, how do you know that? And she's like, well, the sign says it. And I'm like,

what sign? She's like that. And like, about 10 seconds later, I'm like, oh, I'm like, I'm like, Like, we are. And so I went and got my eyes checked and sure enough. It sucks. I can't see anything past the gauge. I can't see anything from the windshield end. So like outside looks great. I can see a quarter laying on the track. Which is way better. But like looking at my little A post mirror, it's blurry. I could see there's a car, but it's just blurry. You couldn't see it back behind you? Do you wear your glasses? Nope.

See, and so your glasses are for up close? Up close. Like for me. Can you see through those glasses distance? Like when you look a- So my corrective is just in the reader's side. So you just look at the top. Yeah. Yeah.

So at the top, it's pretty much straight on. It's a little blurry, but I can see pretty good. And so, but when I take the glasses off to race, I like, they're like, hey, what's the gauges? Who cares? It's not red, right? Not a clue. I feel like I just want to give you both eye exams right now. Just to see.

I'm like, I spent 20 years never looking at them. now you're asking me to read them. I would get in cars. I mean, I've been racing, I've been racing cars for six months, the same car, right? And still not know which one was the water gauge. Where's the water gauge at?

They ask you for the water gauge. Which one? Which one is that? That's good. They put the freaking oil in the water side of the side. They look the same. And they're about the same tip. Yes, they are.

Have you driven a new car? No. I'd like to do that. That's what I was wondering. Like, you know, do you think it would help you with your TV deal, right? I don't know. I don't know. So what I did last year so that I could comprehend this.

I went over to Penske and I'm buddies with Paul Wolf. And I was like, just give me a just, let's just talk. Let's just walk around. Let me ask questions. And so he filled me in, you know, on a little bit of stuff. But I'd like to drive it just so you could just say you're done it, you know. Yeah. I know I called RCR or not RCR, I'm sorry, I called Hendrick.

one year and I said hey if y'all got any testing need and done I'd like to do it and they had the chili bowl was a conflict with a Daytona test coming up so I got to go and drive the car and they're like we're not going to draft or nothing I was like perfect you know I just that's what I want to do too right I'll run single car runs yes I'll probably get bored but I'll be learning all day yeah and then near the end of the test they're like get after in the pack and I was like, uh, and somebody pushed me and I was like,

oh hell no, I'm out of here. Yeah, I got in the back and I just sit there about three car leagues off of them. I was like, y'all, it's not stable.

And this is the very, this is before the first 500 with them, right? They don't know yet. Don't drive good. Right. And, and then I drove one at

Greenville Pickens, which was there. Yeah. That was hard. You can't even give any gas, right? Yeah. But I'm with you.

I would like to, now that they sort of have them under control, you know, I think going to do a test somewhere would be fun. One thing like you ask about if I think that would help with TV, I don't think it would hurt. I think the one thing that, like I listen to everyone I work with in TV because it's really easy for a driver or a past crew chief to get in the weeds of something that's so deep that most people don't understand. And so I think as much as I would like to have some of that knowledge,

I don't think people would care if I knew this super deep knowledge of something. Because though like, you know, Matt Kent is sitting at home and be like, oh yeah, he knows exactly what he's saying. Sometimes I feel like we get in the weeds on stuff and people don't care. That's also probably a really good grasp on what your role is with Fox, right? I mean, like if you were, you know, a color analyst, that's a different role. Totally. than what you do, what you do your job so well.

So I could understand that. Yeah, totally. What is your ambitions as an analyst? What do you mean? People want to see you in the booth. What is your opportunities and how do you control what chances you get? Yeah, I have told, you know, Fox, I mean, since I started. Because initially when I came to Fox, I thought it was towards end of Daryl's career.

like, well, maybe when Darrell retires, they'll let me go do that with Jeff. And that didn't work out. They just, they didn't see me as the right fit there. Because initially, I think when Darrell left, it was Jeff by himself for like a year. Right. And then they, Clint came along and did his role. And then Jeff left. And yeah, I don't, they just, I don't think they view me as that guy. Um, I enjoy going to the track and doing the races. It's, um, it's thrilling, right? Like you sweat in the booth. Like you watch that and you feel like you're a part of it. And I enjoy that.

I think that fulfills an itch that all drivers want to scratch. Yeah. Do you enjoy the studio work? I do. You know, they just to, I think, give me something, a different challenge. They've let me host a couple shows, which is. Terrifying. I'll tell you what.

I'll tell you what. I've only done two. the first one I couldn't have prepared anymore I mean I just I had I had more prep into this one hour show than you can imagine and I rehearsed

you know did the whole rehearsal and then they bring in it was with Brad and Andy Petrie oh man and and the camera like I'm staring at the camera and I hear five four and no lie my tongue was stuck to the roof of my eye And I was like, I don't think I'm going to be able to talk.

And I'm not really nervous on TV. Like when I did Hub last night, I come out, I laugh, we have fun. Like, I'm not nervous at all. That's a different job. Yeah, it's totally different. It's fun, though. I like the. It's a rush.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, like, I went home and I was like, God, I want to go do that again. Not that I want to make a career of hosting. I just like the challenge of trying to do something different. Yeah. That sounds like you when they put you on the play-by-play or like in the Rick Allen role. Yeah. It's terrifying.

It's hard. It's hard. It's hard because, like, as an analyst or when you're in the booth, if you run out of something to say, you look at him. You're like, go ahead. They're like, go ahead. They're going to have something to say, right? When it's you, though, like, I remember Brad and Andy stared at me and I was like, I'm not

real sure where I want to go with this. It's hard. It helped me, you know, it helped me realize. So when I went to MEC, I was like, I want to get hired. to be an analyst, but I want y'all to know, like, I would love to learn how to do play-by-play. Right. And it's super naive, right? And then I go in there, and they're like, okay, here's your play-by-play, and I did it.

How many years had you been doing TV then? I don't know. Or first year? Three. Oh, so you've done a little, you'd been doing it for a while. Two or three, maybe. And I was like, okay, that was terrifying and scary as hell. And Rick's really damn good.

And I didn't really appreciate Rick for as good as he was. and now I don't really care to do play by play anymore. I think maybe down the road, like 15, 20 more years down the road, maybe. Right. But like, and then I'll be too old for all of it. But, like, it just really made, like, every week now, I'm much more appreciative of Rick and how important he is and how good he is. I, getting to host that show, I learned more about how TV's made in one show

than I did in my five previous years. because when I look at a rundown, typically as an analyst, I just see where it says JM. I'm like, right there, that's my talking point. I don't care how they get there. I don't care how they do after me. That there. That's what I'm talking about.

But I really am, like, I go in the control room and I try to learn like, well, how's this work? Because I want to know, because I want to be a part of helping make things better or not getting frustrated. I'm like, well, why would we do that? Well, if I go in to the control room and I learn why we're doing that, or as I read that run down how they get to a certain point and why we're talking about this in the A's, it's because we're going to follow up in the E's with something that's going to tie.

I want to learn all that. I embrace all that. So I like them, let me do some different stuff so I can learn it. How about the, you know, just in general competition or direction of the sport, how involved are you in that emotionally? Jeff Burton, for example, right? He physically puts himself in places to have dialogue with drivers. He's a part of their counsel.

He's a liaison between drivers and NASCAR. He implants himself in these positions that he doesn't have to be. He doesn't have to do that to be a great analyst, but he wants to have an influence, right? Where are you? Like I'm, I just like being an analyst. You know, I've gotten an emotion and opinion about things about where we're headed and whatever, and I'm wrong and right or whatever.

But, you know, the sport is evolving, changing. We've got a new TV thing coming, all kinds, RTA and all that. Where is your... I know what you're asking. Yeah. I get it. I know exactly where you're going. And I think there's a balance there.

And I say that because it's easy to get in the weeds on deep subjects like rules and spoilers and things that most people don't give a crap about, I would say. I try to listen to all the people I work with and what they think is going to be interesting. And I try to balance like, okay, I'm with you, but you don't really know what you're saying there. But I know what you're trying to get to, right? So I don't really care what the rules are. I mean, and I don't mean that, that I don't care because I want the racing to be as great as it can. I think some people get really caught up in, we've got to fix this.

I don't think you have to fix everything because if every race is great, they're not great. They're just races. I think it's okay that we don't have a barn burner every single weekend. I think that makes us appreciate when we get to have that one. So I try to watch a lot of social media because you learn a lot about drivers through social media.

I run into, I bet six or eight drivers a week at the go-cart track and they come up, talk to me just not about racing, but just like, oh, you know, like it was my 25th birthday

the other day I was over it, you know, and they just tell me a story and I'm like, let me put that in my memory bank. And when I talk about him, I can say, what is his birthday this weekend.

So I just try to tell stories because I think people value, your opinion on what drivers are thinking. Like as we head into this weekend, I heard Kyle Larson give an interview this week, and the first thing out of Kyle Larson's mouth was, well, the 12 car is going to be the one to beat when we get to Phoenix.

And I'm like, man, I wouldn't have said that. Like, I wouldn't want Ryan Blaney to know that I think Kyle Larson might be the guy to beat this weekend. But so, like, I just think you, for me, I like to listen to guys what they say and then try to say, try to explain to a fan why they said that or what they might be thinking.

Yeah. Yeah. Is there been something that's happened this year, though, that you did find yourself maybe not knowingly, but became super passionate about when it comes to the sport, the racing, whether it be the new car, whether it be the drivers, whether it would be anything like that. Not even from your TV role, but from a fan of the sport. Well, I mean, I would say, and Martin Zills on my mind because I just watched that race, and I wish they could get rid of shifting at Marksville. And I say it just because I watched Harvick's N-car, and I'm like, I know he's faster. and the guy in front of him, but like you listen to him downshift and he like mats the gas. Like I'm like, Martinsville, and I don't, I get annoyed and people are like, back in the day,

but the thing is, like back in the day, you didn't used to be able to give it wide open throttle off the corner and you could barely hit somebody and move them up and you could get underneath them. And it's, and it's not bad. It's just different. But I think that that would be more exciting to watch if it, if the rules were a little bit different than what they are right now. I think there are some things that we can make better. I say we that NASCAR can make better.

But one thing that I always try to keep in mind is that with the next-gen car, the goal with the next-gen car was to make mile and a half races better. Well, they've won. By God, they're incredible. Almost all of them are really good. But the short tracks are terrible, right? And so we've got to work on that. They're going to have to figure out how to make that better.

But to me, you just got to remember. And there's always repercussions for everything that they change. And I think it's really hard for sometimes people just to shout off. Well, they got to change the rules. Well, okay, give me the solution then. You can't just say we got to change things. All right. Well, what was your feeling after this past weekend then?

I mean, both Xfinity race and the Cup race. Well, the Xfinity race was a joke, I thought at the end. I'll go back to my son and his racing. I have made it very clear to my son. I'm like, listen, if you can pass somebody, get inside of him, race them, race them clean. And there's going to be some contact. But going into the last corner and knocking somebody out of the way is not how you want a race. I'm like, you've already lost your race.

And you've got to figure out how to pass them and do it with some. Like, it's a race. It's not a wreck, okay? And when I watched the Xfinity race last night or on Saturday, like, it just, and I think there's a time and place to move someone. And I would go back to, you know, I think the one thing that people lose sight of at local levels or in carding is that when you see somebody get wrecked on Sunday, it's normally because there's been three months leading up to it that that guy's been like it's going to come

and I'm going to get you when it stings right and I'm okay with that I think there's a time and a place for it but people like what happened in the Xfinity race it was just like I just I mean I that's just too much for me yeah it's too much it was chaos yeah um and it's become uh normalized in a way you know for those moments like when we go back to martin martin'sville nothing was learned. We'll go back to Martinsville next year and that will happen again. Right. And you'll expect it and it'll be and nothing will be learned. But so I said this last night on race hub. I told my son when I was watching the cup race and Ryan Blaney's going to win and Denny Hamlin's only chance is if a caution comes out. I told Carter I said, buddy, about 20 to go, Denny Hamlin's

going to hook somebody. He's going to bring a caution out because his whole season's going to ride on. He's got to have a caution. And Denny didn't, do it. And when it was over, I said this last nine hub, I'm like, I think all local levels of late models, the Xfinity series, the truck series, all those drivers should watch because Sunday, the best showed you how you're supposed to do it. Sometimes it doesn't play into your favor, right? And you just don't take things into your own hand and create a caution just to benefit you. I thought Denny Hamlin, it's a super polarizing guy, right? Like you either like him or you don't. It doesn't seem like there's any middle.

But when he got out of his car on Sunday and immediately said, I just wasn't good enough today. And Ryan Blaney was. And we had a great, I'm like, how do you not like that? Because it wasn't like he said that on Wednesday. He said that 10 minutes after getting out of his car. I'm like, I think it just shows how much he's matured. And he sets an example of how we should all act when we get out.

Yeah. Boy, that's saying something. He has. Man, I appreciate you coming. Yeah. It's been fun. I hope that you, you know, there's always sort of this part of me that hates to see things come to an end, and I hope that you haven't raced your last race, and maybe you could care less about running another race.

But I think people would love to see you go compete if the opportunity and a good opportunity, right, presents itself. but you know you don't give me the opinion that you got any itch to scratch which is which is great but I kind of was curious and and feel like I got a pretty good answer on that question well I don't want to mislead you the right opportunity comes along I'm interested in doing something but I see some guys that go out there right now I'm like I'm not interested in doing that I think if it could be fun I'm all in on something like that. I understand.

Well, man, you're doing an amazing job as an analyst. Well, I appreciate it. I look for feedback. I'm curious as to how people feel about the job I do, and I often run into comments, positive comments about your work. And there's a lot of people that are excited about what that means for your future. And so keep on kicking butt there.

So one thing I would say before we leave here is I really appreciate you saying that. It means the world to me when I read comments like that as well. And it means the world to me because I work really hard and I try really hard to do a good job. So when people say you did a good job and you put this effort in, and I bring that up, Dale, because the one thing that I really appreciate about you

is I know how hard TV is. And it's very clear people that work hard and people that don't. And I know that you do. And so when I watch you on TV, I'm appreciative because I'm like, I know that guy's putting the work in. Man, I appreciate you saying that. Yeah. Sometimes I wish I, you know, sometimes I wish I could put more into it.

But you know how that is. We got families and all kinds of other things going on. You got it's a balance of getting all that right. People are going to be glad to hear from you, man. And we see you all the time on TV. You're no stranger. And we're thankful for that banner. Yeah, that's cool.

I'm glad to get to you a part. of it. You were a part of it. Don't expect him to hang around for Victory Lane though. I mean, we're thankful, but he's going to be at the house, just to be clear. You're a part of our DNA and a reason why we're continuing to compete today and have success. So we appreciate that. When we needed somebody to come in and help us get to the next week, you did that. So thank you, man. Have a great, have a great time, and hope you have a great week and enjoy this weekend. the final one and then we'll take us a little break. And yeah, we all get to go at it again next year.

All right. I appreciate having me on. You bet. Jamie McMurray on the Dale Jr. Download. Man, I'm really excited to have Ally help us bring the guest segment every week. It's one of my favorite parts of the download. We get to talk to so many different people in racing, outside of racing. But everybody that comes in here, I want them to have had a good time.

I want them to want to come back. I want them to feel like an ally to Dirty Mo Media. Thank you, Ally, for your continued support of the download and the entire Dirtymo Media team. Check out Dirtymoe Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.