The Dale Jr. Download - 515 - Jeff Gordon on Driver Personality, Charter Negotiations & What's Next For HMS

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

In an effort to learn more about the current charter negotiations between Cup team owners and the NASCAR organization, Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with Vice Chairman of Hendrick Motorsports Jeff Gordon. If a guest makes a repeat appearance on the Dale Jr. Download, it’s likely because they are such a monumental subject that it's impossible to cover with just one interview. That can certainly be said about Jeff, who first appeared on the show in December 2018 as he was working at Fox Sports as a commentator following his storied racing career. Since then, he has moved into an integral role at the Hendrick Motorsports organization, and provides listeners with great insight into the current talks between the Race Team Alliance and the NASCAR brass.Dale also inquires about Jeff’s thoughts on the NextGen car in Cup competition, to which Jeff details the challenges teams face in the race shop and how consistency is crucial to on-track success. The story of transitioning from the broadcast booth to an executive role at HMS is covered, which began all the way back in 2000 when Jeff signed a lifetime contract with Rick Hendrick. Dale fields a few questions from fans for Jeff, and they chat about how post-racing life has affected their at home environments with their families.  Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Welcome back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download, our guest segment on Wednesday with Jeff Gordon in the Bojangles studio. Let's get to it. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. The Rainbow Four-time Champion. 93 wins. Two-time guest on the Dale Jr. Download. Ladies and gentlemen, Jeff Gordon.

Episode 514, it's going to be awesome to have Jeff back in the studio. we last had him here when we were in the booth on a couch. It has been a while. So this segment with Jeff Gordon obviously brought to you by Ally. Ally, do it right. They do it right. Ally has a really great connection with Jeff, obviously, sponsoring Alex Bowman's car at Hendon Motorsports.

And I'm just looking forward to sort of catching up with Jeff on his kind of a new role at HMS. He's taken over the reins, if you will. I think that Rick is trusting Jeff with the future, the runway, the vision, whatever you want to call it. Can't wait to get Jeff's take on that. And also the charter agreement. We're going to talk about what's the holdup. Where is the leverage that the teams have? We're going to see if Jeff can shed some light on that and his perspective as a team owner on where that goes from here.

I'm looking forward to it. Again, I want to thank Ally for the guest segment here. Always bringing great support to Dirty Mo Media. Let's get Jeff in the room. Good to see you. Yeah, what's up? So thanks for coming. Yeah, man.

Good to see you. Always. And I mean, I love your show, so it's been a while. It has. Last time you were here, we were in that booth where they're running the show from. But we were packed in there somehow. I was going to say, that doesn't look big enough. That's it.

Yeah, we were on a couch in there. hanging out talking. Well, man, so you've got the season getting ready to start up. I guess how's the offseason been for HMS this year? Yeah, it's been good. I mean, obviously, you know, if you look at 2003, we had two of our teams that were super competitive, made it to the final four and competed for a championship and won races, and then we had, you know, some struggles with Alex and the 48 team and with Chase and the nine team. So I think, I think, you know, a lot of folks has just been on, you know, how do we get those guys to kick off the season strong and get the momentum back? Obviously, being healthy was the most important piece of it.

And so I feel really good about where they're both at as the, you know, both drivers. But it's just connecting all the pieces. I mean, Blake was new, right, with the 48 team and with Alex. And so that takes a little bit of time to gel. And so I'm really excited about them for this year. They came out of the gate really kind of strong. right for Alex got hurt he's sitting there battling up in the front of the points he had a really good like 10 races yeah right and so people talk I always thought that like

momentum wasn't real um that you know you just show up in race and where you finish is where you finish um you obviously morale is important and winning helps morale and attitudes but i never was sure about momentum but when you see from our perspective you watch a guy start the year like that get hurt, miss some races, or the season kind of gets knocked off the tracks, and they were never the same team the rest of the year. Yeah. I think this car really drives a lot of that. I think that this car, the details about the setups, how it works, you know, for each driver, as well as just every week you're learning as a driver and as a team, and I think when you lose that, I think that's where the momentum gets lost. It's just that amount of time. I think it even shocked us, right? I think we thought,

okay, get these guys back in there and pick up where they left off. And I think everybody was shocked that it, you know, that's the world we're living in today. Right. Chase is the most popular driver, a big asset to NASCAR. I think he rebounds this year. I know you guys are feeling great, but, you know, you're positive about his season coming up. But do you see any day? difference in Chase post injury, like having to miss some time in the car, right? Yeah. I thought

that would only make him better. He would come back and go, I have a better appreciation for my opportunity. I have a better appreciation for being here in this sport and the opportunity to drive great race cars. Do you see that? What do you think has changed in Chase in the last 12 months?

I just put myself in those shoes of how would I have reacted. I think On one hand, I probably said, man, be nice to have a few more weeks off during the season. On the other hand, you know, I think it's 40-year-old Jeff. Yeah. Right. On the other hand, it's, hey, you know, like I miss my team.

I miss that camaraderie and going out there and working at the result. Yeah. And so, no, I think he's very driven. I think also people have really not, they've underestimated what they accomplished in the playoffs, right? because he wasn't in as a driver, so a lot of people weren't paying attention. If you look at his points that were scored and the consistency that they had in the playoffs, I think that they did far better than a lot of people think. So hopefully, carry some of that momentum over into the start of this season.

And I'm such a big fan of Alan Gustafsons. He was my crew chief when I ended my career, and he's just super talented, works really hard. And they, you know, I think both of those teams had some challenges as far as engineering, you know, lose, you know, Greg is, you know, the crew chief and his ability and what he was capable of, you know, as an engineer. And so it's about these days, it's about that primary race engineer and then what's feeding that. Yes. And both the nine and the 48, you know, have been able, have really needed to backfill that. And I think that's what I'm excited about is some of that's that's taking place over the offseason.

Yeah. One of the things in the news is the deal between NASCAR and RTA or the teams. The new charter agreement, all right. Me and you talked about this a couple months ago. You know, I wanted you to come on the show, help us understand. You know, people ask me, you know, what's going on, what's the deal, what is the height, what's to hang up? How do you feel about it? Where's your charter?

I don't even have, I don't have the details. There are so, I will say this, like for everybody listening, there's so many details on y'all's side of it and NASCAR's side of it. I've had the chance to sit down with Phelps and all of NASCAR and try to understand their point of view. Curious as to where the teams feel like they are. This, you know, obviously there's not a deal. The time ran out. There was a timeline to get one done.

It's not done. We're going into the Daytona 500 without a deal. that is going to be part of the headlines, especially when we're all in Daytona together. The media is going to be asking questions, so it will be mixed among the happenings of Speedweek. And so, you know, first off, I kind of want to know, the teams are fighting for whatever opportunity in this deal they can have, right?

What they feel is fair. But you're also embarking on a new season, and you definitely want the best for the sport at the same time, right? You've got a Netflix deal out there that's killing it. You've got the Daytona 500 staring you down with an opportunity to have a big audience. But you do have this happening in the background. And how do you and how does the RTA balance the headlines and not letting this take away from some of the momentum that's being created around the sport?

Yeah, I think the last thing any of us want, right, is this to be a topic or a hot topic. leading into our biggest event, the Daytona 500, kicking off the season. And I think it's why there was a negotiating committee that was formed two years ago and started conversations with NASCAR and a group that they put together. And it's, I mean, there's been a lot of healthy dialogue. It's just nothing has really moved things forward. And a lot of it was because we're waiting to see what the new TV deal was going to be. So because that was delayed, then a lot of the discussions and negotiations that were, you know, taking place were also delayed.

So it's kind of what's putting us here in this moment at this time. You know, I'll start off by saying, and you've experienced this and I've experienced in so many others, I mean, what NASCAR's built over 75 years has been incredible. And I've been able to benefit from it tremendously as well as so as Rick Hendrick and Hendrick, sports and, you know, their branding. But at the same time, you know, how do we make the sport move forward? How do, you know, everybody that's involved from NASCAR, the tracks, as well as the teams, you know, find a way to be sustainable and build the sport back up. I mean, you and I, I think, got to experience some of the best times this sports ever had, right? I mean, you came in, you're a huge rock star and and you know we're able to experience what it was like to to see grandstands

packed you know full and opportunities coming in every direction from sponsors and commercials and all that clearly that that has changed and and I just feel like personally as well as I think you know the the the teams and these discussions with NASCAR is how do we need to make a change to get this thing going back in the right direction. I think the new TV contract is a good one. You know, did it live up to, if you look at other leagues and maybe what we thought the potential was, that's debatable, but it's done and it's very solid.

And so these discussions are not just about splitting revenues, right? It's about how do we look at the business model of a race team and build enterprise value, be more collaborative with NASCAR and how we come up with ideas that grow the sport, bring new fans. We're still very heavy on relying on sponsor income. And so I think that's why things have not moved forward is because there's probably three, four major key things that the teams have been very consistent on talking to NASCAR about what we think is going to not only help the team.

teams, you know, be profitable. We don't make money, right? I mean, it's, it's one of this. I don't think Hendrick Motorsports has made a profit in 10 years. And, and then you say, well, why do you do it? Well, it's, it's because Rick Hendrick loves the sport. He loves cars, and it's been good branding, you know, and but if we didn't have all the B2B, right, and we're one of the few teams out there very fortunate to be able to have the B-to-B to tie Hendrick Automotive Group and Hendrick Motorsports together and bring these sponsors in. I don't know where that would put us if we didn't have that. And there's a lot of teams out there. And that's where this negotiating committee has come along is we've got to look and think about all the teams. It's not just

about Hendrik, right? It's not just about the big teams. It's every team. And what's going, and there's a lot of teams struggling. And so, you know, NASCAR's aware of it. And we've, We've shared our, you know, books and everything, all the details we possibly can. And they have, listen, they've got to run the sport too. And they have, you know, certain criteria that they've got to meet. So, you know, there's been good dialogue. It's just been frustrating that we haven't been able to move things, which is why we're where we're at.

And we'll kind of see where that takes us moving forward. So what can you be specific on some of the hurdles? What are some of the things that the teams and NASCAR are arguing over? Yeah, I mean, I think certainly starts with revenue, you know, and just trying to figure out what the right proper splits are, the old charter versus a new one. You hear about evergreen, we don't say permanent anymore, but evergreen charters, right?

I just look at other leagues, right, and that's who we're competing with, right? We're competing with other major sports, as well as look at what the F1 has done. if you look at the way they've been structured and the impact they've made and their popularity and how they've turned the corner and ramped it back up, especially here in America, they're truly sharing in the revenues and they're sharing in the ideas and philosophies and looking at, you know, how do we grow, you know, together. The Netflix thing was a big deal that changed the game for them.

I mean, I know when I go to get my hair cut and the girl that cuts my hair is like, man, I've been watching that F1 Netflix show. and I've really gotten into F1. I'm like, wow, right? And I think you've heard a lot of that. I think the Netflix show that NASCAR, you know, just I think it was great. I love it. I'm getting, you know, a lot of people reacting to outside of the U.S. as well.

So it's good. But we've got to do more things like that. And even that's been a big challenge, right? Because the teams are focused on what can we do for our sponsors, as you know. I mean, you're, listen, you're way into it. You and Kelly on the Xfinity side, so you know this. I know we're trying to maybe educate some other folks that maybe don't get it. But, you know, that's where the teams focus is because that's where the revenue comes in for us.

I think that what we need to do is get to a place where we're focused on not only taking care of our sponsors and winning races, but how do we collectively grow the sport and have a broader reach. you know, go more international, have more Netflix-type shows. And right now, I just don't think that the way that the business model is put together is conducive of us putting that kind of energy into those other things, as much as it is, go win races. Yeah. And so it feels like to me that the sport, it's a bit of impasse.

So there's, you know, NASCAR and the team owners are just kind of sit. on their hands everybody's put their argument forward right and now now it's like who's going to flinch how long can this go what is what are you what are you willing to do how far is this willing to go I mean I just don't believe that I don't know really truly where the leverage is for the team owners I think like a team owner I imagine myself being in that situation what would I do yeah NASCAR is always had that mentality of we're here, we're going to be here long after you're gone. You know, Bill France would bring you in the trailer and say, you're not going to mess up my show.

And we'll show you the door if you don't want to change the way you're doing things, right? And so I grew up, and you were around back then, so I had that mentality in my head that that's the way NASCAR is. And they're going to run this that way. And they're going to approach everything with that same mentality that they've had for 50 years. years. Maybe they've evolved. Maybe they've changed a little bit. But I just have a hard time understanding like where can you really create leverage as a team owner to help your argument? Yeah, I mean, that's what we're going to find out, you know, over the next several months. If you go back to when the charter was created, right, why was the charter created? I mean,

I think it was created to have a little bit more consistency in knowing what you were going to to get if you showed up to the racetrack right there was kind of a a base amount uh from from the tv revenue that you're splitting with nascar and then and then you go race for for for the rest um and then through this last what 10 years of the on the current charter um i think that sponsors have have kind of declined as far as that revenue and costs have have gone up and we're seeing inflation all those things. So I think, you know, if you look at what are the good things about the charter, well, if you have a charter, you've got to show up at every race, right? And you've got to compete at a high level. And so the charter, I think, has served a good purpose. I think it's also put us, you know,

in a place where there's more of a seat at the table and discussing, you know, how the formats of the races and where we go race and, you know, the rules and things like that. But I think that there's so much more that we can be doing. I think it's, if we want to have the sport stay like it is and, you know, continue on the path that we're on, then, you know, all the teams will get together and say, okay, Nasker, let's just sign what the deal is on the table. I believe, and I think a lot of other teams believe this, that the investment that the teams are making right now in the sport, and not just to go fast, but to try to build our businesses into a business that's sustainable, then something's got to change. And I think if something doesn't change, I don't

think that we're going to see the sport get back to where it once was. And so what is the leverage? Well, I mean, the leverage is that right now, right, we don't have a charter agreement that guarantees that the teams have to show up at the racetracks. And, you know, I think that right now we just want to, I think we're going to get a deal done. I mean, I think the dialogue and the conversations have been good. It's just, you know, what are we going to have to go through in order to get there? and, you know, I don't want to get too much into, you know, the rest of details because I'm optimistic. Yeah. I'm just also because I've been, I'm a part of this negotiating committee.

Right. And I'm just also very, very frustrated that, you know, we haven't been able. We tried to get this thing done, you know, over the last two years before the TV deal was put in place. And I think we had enough structure in there that shows the benefits on. both sides for NASCAR, the tracks, and the teams. Yeah. That if we get closer to what we're asking for, then we have something that is not only where the teams are going to invest more in the sport, that I think it also makes us true

partners, you know, in this, as well as true partners with our TV partners. Yeah. So how organized, you know, the RTA has been around for a good while now, how well organized in this critical moment is the RTA. How like-minded are all of the the individuals who own these charters? Very. I mean, I think it's just one of the things where, you know, when RTA was created, it was, you know, why was this created? Is this a union? It's nothing like that. It's just really about sharing information and dialogue back and forth because, again, you know, most teams are struggling, right? And so that you have dialogue with, you know, how are you operating your business?

You know, what's happening in the sponsor market? You know, what are your costs to go to the racetrack and, you know, all these different aspects of things that we can, you know, talk about and, you know, share different ideas and philosophies. And so I think right now there's just a lot of communication that's happening between all the team owners. And because of it, you know, of that, I think it has brought us closer together that, hey, we're all dealing with more of the same challenges than we even thought before. And I think over the last two years, I think that communication's only gotten stronger. Yeah. Thoughts on the next gen car. To me, it's a great race car. I don't have to buy the parts. I don't have to build the cars and I don't take them to the

racetrack, but I love what I see on the racetrack. And so, you know, That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's a little bit. Have you driven one? I, I haven't, I haven't driven one. So never, no. So, so, I was supposed to go to two tests. I was going to go to a rain test at Martinsville. That's the only track I feel like I can still drive. But, uh, but I'm not, I'm not driven in. Yeah. So, you know, but you're in terms of, you know, finances, financials and all of those things, you know, Denny will come on his show and say, it's more expensive than they said it was going to be. It's like we're driving Ferraris out there. Um, um, you can't touch. Um, you can't touch. Um, you can't touch. Um, you. Um, um, you can't touch. Um, um, um, um, Don't wreck, you know, the car because everything's crash damage and everything, just skyrocketing. So, you know, how, you know, you, but this is a great race car, right? And it's just getting right. It's grown on me. I think it's a cool race car. You know, you have to look at a couple different ways, right?

I mean, if you just look at the car in general, just don't put any other factors in there. There's a lot of cool things about this car, right? Independent rear suspension, big brakes, the way the air is moving underneath the car with the floor and the diffuser. you know, sequential shifting, I think, is, and we'll probably go paddle shifting, you know, in the near future. You know, I think that when I talk to the drivers, it's pretty edgy, right, with the lower, smaller sidewall, the tires, and not a lot of side force in the car. But I think there's a lot of great quality. It looks good, too. I love the way the car looks.

When you talk to the mechanics, right, that build the cars, they went first. from building cars that you could have a lot of creativity in. You could, you know, design parts and pieces and bolt them on the car and make a difference. And so that's, that factor's kind of gone away. So we've kind of gone down this road where we're almost more of an assembly line and, you know, the way the manufacturing, you know, takes place. But I think, again, that's all grown on us. How has that affected the way you do business?

So, well, yeah, it's affected it a lot, right? I mean, now we bring in all these parts and pieces. We scan every piece. You know, we put it in an inventory. And, you know, then when it's time to build a car, it's like, okay, go grab that part, this part, and bolt it on. And, you know, just as simple as trying to look at upper control arm and geometry, right? I mean, these guys pretty much just bolted on. It's the same almost every, you know, weekend.

It's not a very small box to get too creative. Right. Now, on the cost side, the biggest challenge on the cost side was just for us. I mean, some of the newer teams, if they came in and only had to buy next gen, it probably makes a lot more sense for them. I just remember the day where I saw flatbeds of trucks and us loading up brake calibers and rotors and transmissions, just endless number of parts on these huge flatbeds and just the millions and millions of dollars. that just went out the door that, you know, you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, you didn't, we didn't even realize how much, you know, we had invested in the car prior to next gen.

So I don't know. It's going to take years for us to ever make up for that if we ever can, right? Of that switchover. But I will say positives are, I think the car's, you know, being competitive. It's put on a good race. I think there's a pretty good balance between manufacturers. I think the drivers get more comfortable with pushing it and, you know, and I think some of the changes on the short track should be, you know, slightly better.

And from a cost standpoint, I think we are starting to see some benefits there. You know, and so that's good. We're still in the whole making up for, you know, the switchover. But I do think as long as the single source suppliers don't continue to increase, prices with inflation, I think that we'll get to a good place with this car, you know, as far as controlling some of the costs on the cars. Yeah. For teams like the Xfinity Series, the Truck Series, weekly racers, all of those parts that

came out of those buildings all flooded down into those places, right? All the transmission cases and all that stuff. But the people that make those parts, Moog and all those people make a ball joints, things like, they stop. Yeah. They don't need to make them anymore. There's not the market that used to be. when the cup series stopped using these parts.

So there's going to be this long sort of effect, cause and effect to that big switchover and the cup car going away from that traditional, you know, break and suspension system that we've ran for 50 years. Yeah, and I don't think, you know, if let's say the next step is moving next-gen parts to X-Fendi, I don't know that those teams can afford it.

I mean, they are expensive. We just do less of them, you know, less cars. They used to have 15. Yeah, we don't design as many cars. I think, you know, homologation is a good thing. I think there were some ways to do that with the old car. But we're in it. And listen, this is, again, why we are invested in these types of decisions, right?

And we want to, Hendrik Motorsports celebrating 40 years this year. I want to see us celebrate the next 40. Yeah. And that's why I think that team owners are this adamant at what we feel like we need. to be here for the next 40 or next 80 years. You got into the broadcast booth when you retired from driving race cars in your broadcasting career was somewhat brief. In terms of you...

Well, when you look at Darrow Walshap and some of these other guys, Benny Parsons, you did a great job, right? You were in massive asset to the sport jumping out of the car right into the booth. And one of the biggest names, a champion, it was perfect. And so, you know, DW is, sort of in this transition of slowing down and retiring, and you were necessary. And so it was really good.

But you've since decided to get into running, you know, running Hendrick Motorsports. Rick understands the runway and needs to have a plan and a future for that business. And you make a massive change. It appear to be a massive change from the outside, but talk to me about that, right? how were you ready to step away from the booth? There's a bit of information that you shared with us about the timeline of that happening. Rick wanted you to come.

And you're like, I'm not quite ready. Was there some hesitation of whether you even wanted that responsibility in that role? Because once you sign up for it, you're in it. That's the one thing about the charters. Like you don't buy them to sell them on a profit five years from now. You're going to have those charters forever. If you're Hendrick Motorsports.

And so, yeah. And so the, and if you agreed to do this with Rick, you're, you know, you've, you've, you've, agreed to take this on. This is your life, right? This is what you are going to be for the rest of your life. I imagine that that was, while awesome, exciting, also you had to contemplate whether you truly wanted to be, that's who Jeff Gordon was going to be. Yeah.

You know, a car owner in managing, you know, a four car operation. Man, I better be real careful how I. I handle this question because I know Mr. Hendricks is going to see this, but no. So, yeah, we talked about this before, right? When I first stepped out of the car, I mean, you have to go even further back, right? Way back. I think it was 2000 when I signed my lifetime contract with Hendrick Motorsports. When you signed a lifetime contract with Hendrick Motorsports, you know, I hear that, right?

And I think my mind goes to, you know, these players that will sign these long deals, football players do it quite a bit, knowing damn well they're not going to play those last four or five years of that deal, you know, and it's, it looks good on paper, it's a big splash for the media, but when you signed a lifetime contract, what in the hell did that even mean? Because you're still in the middle of your driving career at that time, right? Your little, did you really believe that your entire life was going to be locked into Hendrick Motorsports from that moment on? I did.

Really? I did, you know, I just, I mean, Rick has meant so much to me, you know, personally and professionally. And because so, so again, I go back to this was a time when Ray Evernham got the Dodge opportunity and he was on his way there. And great opportunity, you know, hated to see him go. But at the same time, you know, it kind of made me have to think and evaluate my life and my career and where things at for me. And I knew in my heart, I didn't want to leave Hendrick Motorsports. You know, to me, they gave me this amazing opportunity. That's the best organization.

We've won championships and races. Why would I go anywhere else? But at the same time, Ray Everingham, it was a great crew chief and a guy that I trusted in and had so much success with that, you know, how do you break that up? And I just remember going to Rick's house and just having a conversation with him about it. And I think he thought when I came there, I was coming to tell him I'm going with Ray. Oh, how? Which was not the case at all. So when it finally got to the point where we said, hey, I said, I don't want to go anywhere.

I want to be here. And he's like, well, we want you to be here too. And I don't know if it happened at that time or if it happened right after that. It was, well, let's just make sure that we put that together. We're together forever. And so that's what not only was it a lifetime contract, but it gave me equity in Hendrick Motorsports. And to me, that's what paved the runway for my future Hendrik Motorsports of one day when I'm not driving. I'm going to have a role here.

What is the role? How is it defined? Don't know. It wasn't put in there. But, you know, so as I got closer to retirement, that's when more of those conversations start happening. It really happened when I hurt my back. I hurt my back in the car, you know, or along the way, just.

just racing and I started having pain my back and I thought my career was going to be over a little bit earlier than I expected and I started having the conversations with Rick of all right you know let's talk about this and so you know from a branding standpoint I felt like I built a brand for so many years that I felt like that was also important even to my role at Hendrick motorsports is maintaining that and so that's when the conversation talked about staying relevant moving into the TV booth and and pursuing it, you know, with the TV, you know, the networks. And so ended up getting the deal with Fox and Rick said, okay, you know, that's great. I think it's a good idea. And, you know, we still have a lot of

things, you know, that need to happen here before probably ready for you to move into a bigger role. And so go do a three-year deal. And that's what I did. I did a three-year deal. And as I got to the end of the three years, I was enjoying it. I mean, I did. I love being a part of the sport in that way, calling a live broadcast. There's adrenaline. It's exciting. And you've put it well, you're like, you're like top five every weekend. It's like you don't leave there disappointed, but you're also not going to Victor Lane. And yet, you know, but you're also growing with it and trying to find new ways to kind of add value. And Fox was great to work with too. And so I kind of said to Rick, hey, I think I'd like to do three more years. And, and,

He said, okay, but that's got to be it. I think we're ready. Like, really want you to come in here. Marshall Carlson, you know, was doing more with Hendonautomotive group, more on the manufacturing side and some of the GM defense things that we're doing. And so the timing really was perfect at the end of that six years to move into this role. Now, even then it wasn't clearly defined. Right.

And, but here's the thing. I you know the relationship I have with Rick is that he he's always lived up to his word and I always live up to my word and we're just really honest we have a great relationship where we could just share things and talk about it and you know it wasn't about money it was about what is my future within Hendrick Motorsports and how does he see that and view that and he wanted to hear the same for me and and I just this this sport and Hendrick Motorsports has given me every everything. And so not only do I want to give back, but I love the company and I love the sport. And so this is the way, I think the best way for me to be able to, you know, have a long future in, again, creating value for Hendrick Motorsports and for, you know, our folks. I mean, it's just, like he says, it's all about the people. And I'm just, I'm invested in the people now more than I ever have. And I'm, I am enjoying it. It's got some challenges. Talk about those challenges. I mean, it's just, you know, you're in a lot of different meetings where a lot of things are being thrown at you.

And it's just something every day, which is the fun part. The fun part is there's no day that's the same, right? The hours aren't necessarily set. It's just what's being thrown at you, whether it's a driver getting injured, you know, trying to land a new sponsor, or, you know, planning 40th anniversary celebrations or events, negotiating with NASCAR and the things that we're doing with the teams and making sure that we're continued to stay competitive winning races and championships. I'm less on the competition side. I'll be honest.

That's so surprising to me. Yeah, I just feel like... Having been a driver. I mean, I like working with the drivers to find ways to help them build their own brand, help, you know, connect to the sponsors and, you know, more the business side of things, licensing and merchandising and those types of opportunities. And for some reason, it seems to be more of my interest is the business side. But, you know, I haven't driven this car.

The competitions change so much, the way that they tied to the engineering and all the data. And so while I listen and like to be knowledgeable about it, add when I can. To me, it's, it's more about, you know, the chemistry and the work ethic and, and, you know, how you share information and how, you know, you just get the most out of, of yourself as a team and as a driver. That's more where I think I'm focused. And that's what Rick, you know, what I love about Rick is Rick was always just, what tools do you need to go faster? Not just me as a driver, but as a team, right? You know this. You were there. He's just always trying to figure out what can we do to stay competitive, stay on top of our game, what people

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you talked about working with the drivers. One of the questions from a guy Michael Schumann, he says, why do you think that monotone drivers are good for the sport in HMS? and he's being a bit, he's needling you a little bit. But you had a comment, right? This was right around the time when Denny was sort of getting himself in trouble with his podcast. And you came out and you said, yeah, I don't really want my guys doing those type of things. We don't need that.

It's a bit of distraction. We want to be a smooth operation over here. And I need my drivers walking a certain line. There's been, when I went there, you know, it was, you know, tuck you in your shirt, wear slacks, wear a button down. There was a style. there was an image. Penske has it as well, an expectation that's been there forever, right?

And you were part of that as a driver, and now part of it is running the business. What is your, what is okay for your drivers? What are you, you know, when we got this Netflix deal? Yeah, you know, you see the drivers out there, some of them sharing a lot of their lives. I'm certain that you want your guys in that, you know, in that sort of environment, right?

and helping your sponsors, helping the sport and all that thing. But I know that, you know, you've got a lot of opinions on this. Well, I mean, listen, there's no book, right? You don't get a Hendrick book. And it says, here's, you know, the guardrails. I think we love to see guys have personality and show it. I mean, I go back through my career and it came through opportunities. I mean, the things that, you know, I did with Pepsi.

Yeah. Because they presented something. And it's like, if you have the, the, kind of comfort level to go try some of those things and put yourself out there and maybe you'd be a little bit more criticized if it doesn't go well, but put yourself out there when those right opportunities come along. I think that's great. I love that. I want that. But also got to be professional, you know, and the way we do things is definitely at a high professional level to get the most out of the race team and the race car and just knowing how hard everybody works right at it so to me

that's a fine line between you know showing your personality being professional and then doing things that that are you know kind of create conflict yeah and against the grain yeah so so i just i just think that that depends on who your sponsor is uh my question depends on who your owner is so i want to ask you this. So Jimmy, right, is driving for HMS forever. You and I know Jimmy. We know Jimmy Jam. We know the alter ego. We know what kind of guy this guy is when he's, you know, out and about and away from the track. Fun, goofy, hilarious, daredevil, all of those things, right? But when he was, and I know that he was focused in a champion, right, and doing what he needed to do to win races and be his best. But there seemed to be from somewhere, whether it was him, Lowe's, or HMS, there was a muffling of his personality.

Yeah, right? And was you now, in the position you're in, was that a, you think that was more of a personal choice for Jimmy? I thought it was. I mean, I didn't think that it was ever, again, I think it depends on your sponsor and kind of what those expectations are. I mean, yeah, there's, I think there's higher expectations at Hendrick today because of all the success, because the way things have evolved higher expectations now well I mean I mean as far as I mean the damn expectations were pretty damn high not just your performance yeah I just think the the level of professionalism when there was a five and a seven-time champion in the in the competition meeting four man four when there was

I'm gonna give you one more thank you when there were when there were that many championships in the competition meetings I couldn't imagine the expectations being higher today but you you were there I mean you know and in I You tell me, like, you had Mountain Dew, right, as a sponsor. I mean, how did you feel? Well, I, you know, I always sort of, I probably, you know, not, I probably didn't do myself a lot of favors all the time. I mean, I was going to be an idiot every once in a while and say the wrong thing, you know, and I wasn't quite as smart about, you know, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut today. Yeah, but did anybody criticize you for that?

I never had, you know, I never, I don't know that, no, Rick or no one ever set me down and said, man, cut that out, right? Stop that. More, you know, nothing like Denny's probably experienced. I'm curious, you know, was there, one of the, one of the questions was from John Smith, the most frustrated you ever were with me when we were teammates. So, I mean, maybe that's a moment where I was, you know, you guys were on, on this, on this, on this plan and I'm over here acting a fool. Yeah. I mean, I don't ever remember you acting a fool.

Like, to me, having you there was, was awesome because, first of all, the sponsor, like, amount of sponsor engagement and interest and fans was just unreal, right? Unlike anything that I had ever experienced or Jimmy had ever experienced. And you and I had, you know, known each other. And I mean, our friendship, you know, was, we weren't like hanging out buddies all the time. But when we did, we got along great and had a good time. So I was excited, you know, about it. And I knew your relationship with Rick as well was solid. So I thought that was super cool.

I never had anything like that that I remember as far as anything you ever said. And the only time I ever had frustration with you was a time where I can't blame you, right, which is Martinsville. Oh, when I won. When you were. Well, I didn't. I mean, if I passed you. to win the race, that's one thing. So what?

You just did. You ran out of laps. So what, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You didn't do anything wrong. That's why I'm so frustrated. No, if you remember that day, and I think that we were in the championship battle. And so I'm pretty sure that I kept lining up in the outside.

This is before the choose rule, right? So I'm in the outside lane on, it seemed like every restart. I think I was starting like fourth or something like that, about every restart. and you are usually the one row behind me or next to me. I can't remember. And I remember, like, there was some conversation on the radio. Hey, Junior, you know, he'll help you out if you get a run and you'll get down in front of them if you get that run. I'm like, okay, cool.

And all day long, right, it was like, okay, I'd get in there, get in there, get in there. And then the last restart when it was time to go for everybody, it was like, whom. And I couldn't get down. I remember I fell, you know, a few spots back. And then you went up and got the lead, and then I'm running you down. You know, it caught you with like two laps to go. And you win the race. And I was like devastated because we didn't win.

And I thought we had a car that could win. And we didn't move on, you know, in the championship. But I never would blame you for going and winning a trophy, especially that trophy. The one time I get a market medal trophy. So that's the only time I could ever remember being frustrated with you. Yeah. And you're beating us on all the super spores. I know.

I remember some. There is some in-car audio from mainly Daytona or Talladego where you're like, what the hell is this eight car doing? What are those little sheds out there? You know, just really annoyed. Because I would bump draft in the corners way before it was like something you did. I remember. You were pretty aggressive.

I was. You were aggressive. And you had a fast race car. I raced in practice. And that annoyed the shit out of all of y'all. Well, I could sit here and say that that was very Earnhardt, their own way. I'm glad he said that. You know, I talked about those fan questions

and wanted to get to a couple more of those. We had Bill Davis on the show that you drove for at one point. Think about your career if you don't go to Hendon Motorsports. Think about your career if you stay with Bill Davis. How many wins? How many championships? I would say a few handful wins. I don't think any championships.

And that's no knock to Bill, you know, but now knowing what I know. Right. And knowing the commitment and the investment and what it takes to win a championship, you know, I think even if we had stayed together, I don't think we would have taken things that far. Yeah. Love Bill. You know, love working. He was such a great guy and worked really hard and put together a great team. I just don't think it was ever going to be able to evolve to a Hendrick Penske level. and so yeah it's hard to say but I mean I know that they they won races you know so I feel like we could have won races together for sure so you are you know you get integrated into

the current evolution of Hendon motorsports now you know and you've been in this position sort of managing the company and growing in your own role at the same time Jimmy comes back from his little, you know, trip to IndyCar and wants to get involved in NASCAR, wants to get back involved in NASCAR. I had conversations with Jimmy, Zoom calls. I know Jimmy went and talked to everybody. I imagine, and I have to assume that you and him and Rick were in a room at some point to talk about, you know, his interests in what his vision was or plan was. I just felt like that at some point the announcement was going to be made

that he was going to be part of y'all's current future, you know, part of the runway. Were there ever any conversations with Jimmy doing anything with HMS like he's doing now with his race team? Or was that never on the table? Did he just come to you? He told me, like, I'm going to go

everybody and just try to gather information and get advice. And that's, he told me when he was going to go speak with Rick or Hendrick Motorsports or anybody, that that's what he was there for. It's really just to get information and advice and take that and move forward. That's the way I took it. I mean, I sat down with them to talk about. I know Rick did as well. But to me, it was more just about understanding the business side and the ownership side and what opportunities might be out there. he and I certainly I don't know what if he and Rick spoke about but I know he and I never really spoke about that being at Hendrick Motorsports. You know and again I go back to if that were going to happen would that have happened earlier in a contract, you know, and before he was leaving Hendrick and having some of those conversations. I would have loved to have kept Jimmy closer to Hendrick Motorsports.

You know, I mean, he, when you have a guy that's had that much history at a place, he can only add value. Yeah. And, you know, but that was not really anything that we really talked about, you know, was more about, you know, kind of what path he was on, what he was thinking, what, you know, and what he was looking at doing and kind of what was next for him. And so, I mean, I'm an open book, especially with a guy like Jimmy, you know, that you have a friendship and a relationship like that.

I'm like, man, I'll tell you, everything I got going on, I'll tell you what's going on with the race teams and you know you make your decision you know from from there yeah pretty interesting uh see him get back involved and i didn't think he would come back in any real shape or form but now he's you know back behind the wheel of a car it's got to give you got to have thoughts about that you know but having competed with him having been such close teammates for so many years i know y'all race the shit out of each other but yeah there was a mutual respect oh there's nobody ever respected right of course And, you know, with him back behind the wheel, taking his team to Toyota, he's making moves.

He's, and having had some conversations with him. He's very eager to make this thing better. And he's trying to do that while he also spends a large amount of his time overseas. And now he's going to be racing in this, you know, this other, you know, he's racing all kinds of other cars, other things. So, you know, do you think that, you know, we see Jimmy around for a long time? Is he in it for the long haul? Where do you see Jimmy's future as an owner? I think, I mean, I think, you know, he's partnered with somebody really solid in Moray Gallagher.

I think that, you know, that team, again, setting themselves up for a long future. So I think he's found a good place there. I'm bummed that it wasn't able to continue with Chevrolet because, you know, obviously you know how I feel about Chevrolet. And I know how great a relationship he had with Chevrolet, but you do have to make tough business decisions, you know, and there just wasn't a big opportunity there with the way that the key partnerships and the alignment of the teams that are currently with Chevrolet and what that future looks like. Apparently, that just wasn't a good enough opportunity there.

So hard to blame them. But I am surprised he's driving. I'll be honest. You know, like, I, again, I admire what he did in IndyCar. I'm like, man, who, I went and did one sports car race and got my butt kicked. And it was the hardest I ever had to work in a race car in a long time. And it made me think a lot about Jimmy, you know, and that commitment that he made to go run IndyCar. And, you know, whether you could say it was successful or not successful, just taking that step, right?

and committed to it is what I admired so much about it. And then same thing, you know, with NASCAR or whatever else. I mean, first of all, I mean, Jimmy is one of the most versatile race car drivers I've ever, you know, raced against. So I not only seen him how he adapted to his stock car changing conditions in the stock car or setups or whatever it may be, but seeing him hop in other cars too. You know, we went over to Spain and we did this rally car, the race of champions event. And it was, okay, at that time it was, you had a two-wheel racer, you know, like that came from motorcycles.

Then you had a pavement racer and a dirt racer was kind of the way that it set up. So we had Colin Edwards, motorcycle guy. He won every race, by the way. He was awesome in four wheels. He was in the little buggy, even though they weren't on two wheels. He was in the buggy. He won every race. I think I won maybe, you know, half the races I was in.

And Jimmy had to go up against a full-blown rally drivers in a rally car. car. And, you know, he had the biggest challenge and he took it on, you know, so he's not afraid to pursue something like that. And he was competitive, very competitive. So, you know, just goes to show you, I think his mindset is talent, his abilities. So on one hand, I'm surprised he's going to run in the Cup series, especially with the next gen car, right, and how different this car is. But at the same time, I'm not, because I've seen him take on these big challenges throughout his whole life. and find success. He was fast at Charlotte last year.

I don't know if you remember. I think that was at the 600 October race. He was super fast. I know he got an accident or something, but prior to that, he was making some of the best lap times. So he still has the speed. Yeah. Anthony wants to know.

So, you know, Hendrick Motorsports is involved in this effort to take Larson to the ND500, Garage 56. Are these just like things that are just like, you know, are these just these singular opportunities that y'all go, that looks good, what's the plan, let's do it? Okay, that's done. Here comes another one. No, we're not going to do that one. Okay, this looks good. We'll do this.

Or is there a real vision for Hendonk Motorsports to diversify and be involved in other forms of motorsports? Yeah. I would say it started with opportunities, certainly great. garage 56 when it first came along you know Jim France and Rick talking about it and and then that thing comes to reality and even though along the way right I mean I think Rick was a bit apprehensive and hesitant of I don't know if I'm going to be going to LaMau and you know what how are we going to make this car as competitive against GT cars and then along the way I think he saw not just Chad you know and Greg and in the folks that were involved

He just saw our people rally behind this and the effort they started making and the testing, the progression of the car and the reality of going to LaMaw. And then he got to LaMaw and I've never seen him more proud, right, of an effort that had Hendrick Motorsports on it and our folks, you know, and representing our country. Yeah. And the car was loud and fast. And, you know, the pit stop, you know, where we won the pit stop competition in our class. I mean, I just saw them beam in front. And I think what that did was opened up some doors and opportunities of, okay, we did this.

This is a huge challenge. What's next? Now, at that time, I kind of already knew the Indy 500 thing was coming in. And I'll give Larson a lot of credit on that. When he came to Hendrick, he said, man, there's ever an opportunity to run the Indy 500. I'd love to do it in my prime, not when I'm retired. Yeah. And so, you know, I took that to Rick and we started talking about it.

And I don't think until the Lamaw thing started gaining momentum, did that ever even become a reality? I think he was like, yeah, right. I don't think I'm ever going to do that. And then all of a sudden it was, okay, you know, let's pursue it. And then we partnered, you know, with McLaren on it. But I think now because of those two things, we are looking at more diversification. I mean, I think the manufacture, we had to with Next Gym, by the way, right? NextGen goes away.

We're not building our chassis anymore. We're not hanging bodies. You know, we're not building as many components for the car. What do we do? Not only with the equipment that we had to do this, but the people. Yeah. And try to keep jobs at, you know, and keep them at Hendrick. And that's where I give Marshall Carlson and his group a ton of credit for really pursuing the GM defense.

manufacturing capabilities and in contracts. And man, that's just been evolving and growing. So now, you know, you see where we've diversified into that. You know, we've seen General Motors bring their tech center close to our campus, you know, the things with Garage 56 and IndyCar. And then you know Rick's love for Corvette, right? I mean, he just, that's his favorite car. He's collected a bunch of them.

And I think that, you know, if there was ever an opportunity to get closer to Corvette and, you know, continue to evolve with Chevrolet and General Motors in the racing area, then, you know, we would love to continue to see that happen. Wow. There's some opportunity there because there's sort of this sort of, you know, the Corvette program in Emson and so forth is sort of in this transition. and Rick has had some experience as an owner in the EMSA series years ago. He had that black and silver prototype. Isaac wants to know, speaking of the ND500, was there ever a real legitimate conversation about you running the double? Unfortunately, no.

I mean, I definitely had a conversation about it, but I didn't think it was ever realistic. I don't know. I'm different than guys like Larson. You know, to me it was I can do this one thing pretty good. good? I don't think I can do these two things really good. You know, he hops in a sprint car and goes races at Knoxville, wins the Knoxville Nationals and shows up the next day at Indianapolis on the road course and is leading the race and, you know, could have won that race. I didn't ever think that

that was what I was good at. You know, I thought that I was best at focusing my energy and efforts into one team, one car. And while I could have fun going doing the other things, I didn't think I could be competitive in all the other things. Same thing with the Rolex 24 hour. You know, I didn't, I tried it one time and I was like, man, I'm giving it a half effort. I don't have, I can't commit to it. And when I retired, I said, I'm committing to this and got the opportunity of Wayne Taylor Racing and, you know, was able to be competitive in the wed and contribute to the team

and you focus on all the driver changes. I put a ton of effort into driving that car and understanding the car and the team aspect of it. and not saying that we won because of me because I put the minimum effort of the other three guys, but it was amazing to go win that event. But I also know how much I put into it, and I think you get out of it what you put into it. And so that's just my thing. So even though I got asked to do India a couple times over the years, I didn't ever think that it was realistic for me.

You mentioned Larson being a guy that can jump in just about anything day after day and change his styles and be competitive, you're very close to him in proximity and watching him work. You know who AJ Floyd is and Mario Andretti and you raced against Tony Stewart. Where do you rank Kyle Larson in the ecosystem? I mean, is he maybe the best ever to ever drive a race car? You know, I mean, that's a big statement.

But he's in this conversation and he's here. We're in the prime of his career watching maybe one of the greatest, at least in the top five greatest race car drivers in the history of motorsports. It's probably something that's going to be debated throughout his entire career and then long after because, you know, anytime you can jump, this is why Mario Andretti, so, you know, guard, you know, as the one of the best, is because he could get into everything and win, right? And, I mean, he did it on a whole other level, Formula one, Indy car, Sprint cars,

whatever else he got into NASCAR, right? And sports cars, I mean, everything he won in. And I think that's the true sign of the best. And I think Larson has shown that he can do the same thing. You know, he's won the Rolex 24 hours. You know, he's won in NASCAR, one in sprint cars. I don't know if he'll ever get a chance to drive an F1 car, but he's going to get a chance to go to Indy with a solid, you know,

very strong effort. and already I've seen him adapt to it very quickly. So not necessarily surprising. I mean, Jimmy's the best I've ever raced with, right? And that's how I evaluated is people in the same equipment as me on the same track, and you go race with them. And, you know, Jimmy was the best. So I got to race with Larson, but we weren't in the same equipment.

And, you know, now I see how much effort he puts into it, and I respect what he does and how he does it. But I don't know how you rank a driver without, you know, you being out there competing with him. But he's certainly one of the best that I've ever seen. You didn't go to Phoenix for the test. I couldn't make it to Phoenix, unfortunately. What did you learn that we didn't hear about from that test? Well, I mean, he definitely had a moment.

Oh, really? Yes. Yeah, which I think, you know, they said was a good thing. I think he was on a longer run later in the test and the car started getting loose. I think in the Indy cars, what I'm hearing a lot about is you have these weight checkers and adjustments and things you can make within the car. And that you've got to stay on top of it quickly. And so I think he felt the car was starting to get a little bit free. And I don't know if he made enough adjustments in the car to tighten the car up.

And then the car didn't come all the way around on them, but got out there. Wow. And he saved it, but he pulled in. But I think, yeah, no kidding. I've seen him not pull it. But so, you know, I think that it was good for him. And again, this is stuff that I've been impressed with him. He's asked for things like this.

Like, not only did he ask, you know, hey, if the opportunity for Indy has ever come up, but once it did, he said, I would love to drive the car somewhere other than Indy, where I can feel the car. I can understand, you know, what loose is or what tight is. and some of these things. I still think the learning curve is going to be super steep with traffic and the speeds that you're carrying at Indianapolis and trimming the car for qualifying.

But yeah, I think it was from everything I heard it was a good test. Yeah. Is Leo racing? No. Leo's taking a break? I know he ran a little bit, right? Both he and Ella, you know, both she's on the track, but she's on foot. All right.

Yeah, she does track and field. You know, he's just a pretty typical 13-year-old boy. He wants to be, you know, Fortnite and, you know, gaming and YouTube and all that kind of stuff. What kind of dad is Jeff Gordon? I think sometimes I'm a little bit too disciplined. Expectations are high. Yeah, I mean, you know. I have those days.

Yeah. You know, where you're like, man, I got to dial it back. I'm asking too much. they're just five years, you know, three and five years old, my kids are really young, and I sort of, you know, they'll do things that impress you. And your expectations rise because of those milestones they're meeting, right? Yeah. And then you're like, wait, why did you not do that?

It seems like that would make perfect sense to make this decision. I'm a very proud, very loving dad, want to be there for everything that they have going on, you know, anything, any activity they're in, I'm there. you know that's probably the only thing I take off work for is is you know being together as a family otherwise I love to work but but but I think yeah what comes along with that is definitely my upbringing expectations my my parents had when you see the potential right and you're like man kids are so smart if they just apply themselves you know and and so I I love being a dad but it's tough, right?

Because, you know, where their brains are at at their age versus where yours is at, and it's, yeah, you got to make sure that you connect to them on their level. And luckily, my wife is amazing. I know I've heard you say this too with Amy. I mean, moms are the best. And Ingrid's a great mom and a great wife. And so, you know, we're a great team. How has your, how is the home environment visually and physically changed since you've,

so as I got away from my racing career, the trophies moved into different rooms and they went into storage. Now there's a couple, right? Yeah. But like, you know, my kids' exposure to my life and my history is not maybe as robust or obvious, right, as I would like it to be. I want them to certainly be curious and no but maybe they you know i just have to be patient right but with your kids like i'm they they they probably witnessed a lot more of your career and your your racing career but now as that's gone away right and you're moving further away from that the physical world around them changes right there's less dad the driver less you know memories of those years um does that is that something you even think about does that yeah I mean you know obviously they were coming to the

racetrack about every weekend right when they were younger and and I I think that probably pushed me to drive a little bit longer too you know so they could see some so they could see more of an actually remember some of it Leo doesn't remember as much as Ella does and you know I I tried a few times year to take them both to the racetrack either one at a time or together you know just to I want them to understand what I do today, but at the same time, they'll get fans coming up and talking about, you know, following me as a driver. One of the funniest things happened recently is I was with my daughter, we were in New York,

and we were walking down the street and somebody recognized me. And she was shocked, right? She's like, how did that person recognize you? She's like, that never happens on the street in New York. And I think actually that day there was a couple people. And so, you know, it's cute in a way because, I mean, it's good to know that people still, you know, recognize you. But it was nice to make that connection for her because, you know, in her mind, racing days are long over. And I'm a guy that goes into an office pretty much every day and not as much of a on TV personality.

So, and we were actually, we were in Dubai over the holidays. We went to, on a big trip, we went to Africa, we went to Maldives, and my wife likes to take big trips, right? Sounds like it. Yeah. And, but we ended coming through Dubai, and there's this amazing mall that's there in Dubai. I mean, some of the construction and what they built there blows your mind. And she was shocked because they had one of my old Pepsi jackets. in this this this like vintage store and and so she's like look at this oh my god so you know

those are when I get the cool dad points when things like that happen because it doesn't happen you know as often which I'm fine with I like I had an amazing career had a lot of interaction with fans and and got to live that part of my life and and I'm totally comfortable and content on what I'm doing you know today and the level of celebrity you know that I have I do wish that you know that there was more racing that it could have done when they were older because yeah I would have loved to have seen how they interacted with it and appreciated it don't you start with you don't you get started oh man listen I was talking to some of the girls at the uh out in the lobby before I came in here and and they were asked are do you

ever do any racing and I said not in a circle I said I spent my whole life since I was five years old going around in circles I said if I'm going to do it anything it's going to be you know taking taking a car sports car or something out on a on a road course i'm fascinated by that but i wanted to say like um i had one of those moments where the fan recognized you on the streets in the new york city we took a we took ila and the girls to meet to see santa this year and santa said my name and illa goes how does sanna know your name that's awesome yeah because i'm on the naughty list yeah me and a man i mean we were stuttering boy Trying to figure out the right answer for that one.

I bug you about this from time to time, man, about driving. And it's really not, I mean, of course, I would love to watch you race a car anywhere. You know, when we were racing against each other, I didn't appreciate, you know, I didn't appreciate the competitors and their greatness and their, you know, some of the champions like yourself and what icons they were and how important they invite. valuable they were to the sport, but now that I'm kind of out of it, and all these guys are, you know, you, me, and all these other guys are kind of moved on from that full-time grind that we were in. I'm, you know, I've had a hard time, like, just, I have a hard time making that

decision to say, that was it. Never again will I be in competition. And so I have to, I asked that question a lot of all the guys that come in here when they retired and how they manage that and you seem to you seem to not have any interest. Well, that's because I'm in a competitive environment every single day, you know, with the business side of it, I guess. But I mean, I just, you know, I'll watch a race. You know, you're in that booth. I'll watch a race and I'll go, you know, I'm not, I don't want to get out in a cup car.

I don't. I don't want to run the Daytona 500 ever again. I don't have any interest. in driving competitively in the next gen. It's just too hard. It's elite. Yeah. I realize.

The amount of effort you've got to put into prep and all that. I realize that when I race in that Exfinity car, I'm like, I'm lucky I'm okay at this because these guys are really good. You do a great job, man. I can't believe that I've been able to do as well as I have because they're that good, right? And trying to come in there and do it once a year is ridiculous. That's a silly assumption. Yeah.

Racing my little late model car, they kick my ass. ran forth this weekend driving my tail off. I saw where you were race, I was wondering. All I saw was you passing cars. Yeah, that's a good thing. We did move forward. But it was, you know, but I can't just stop. Yeah.

And I don't know, you know, when I did stop, I thought I was done, right? When I retired from Cup, I was like, okay, I'm done. And then the more I watched, the more I felt this draw to it, you know, and I don't know how you got away. How did you escape? I mean, I thought doing TV was a nice transition, being involved with Hendrick Motorsports, even when I was doing TV.

The second half of the year, I was still very, very involved. When you're watching those races from the booth, though, you weren't. Yeah, I, and first of all, let me just say this, you know, so before I don't want to forget saying this that I agree with you. Like, I didn't understand and appreciate guys like you and iconic faces and names and how much that meant to the sport, right? right, and how many we had exit the sport in a pretty rapid period of time. And so, you know, having you in the booth, having you out on the racetrack, I think, is still critical to our fan base and also setting the right example for other guys coming up. You know, for me, I guess it was if I don't feel like I can be competitive. But you can.

Why do you think you can't be competitive? That's funny too because you bought that Porsche You and Ray take it to Indy Y'all don't know what you're doing Ray I talked to Ray about it He's like yeah I had to crunch and learn Everything I could but I know when y'all got there Y'all were not you were in left field on the setup

Y'all didn't have the thing dialed in You finally got it a little better the next day And you walk away from that going Yep I can't do it anymore These guys are better it's too hard That's not it You were driving the wrong car that day Maybe that's the case.

But I mean, what I learned about that was people were testing. I didn't know anybody tested before you get there. And, you know, these guys are racing all season long. And so I just, I respect the competitors. I do, you know, I respect that they're working hard at it. Your own urge and the lure that it was for all these years. I love driving cars. Don't get me wrong.

Like, I love going to the racetrack. I don't get enough of. that. I just don't really need to do it in the competitive environment. I'd rather just push myself. You know, I'll look at the clock, but I'll look at the clock to say, okay, I ran this lap time. How do I go a little faster? How do I go a little faster? I don't want to look at the clock of everybody else. You don't want to look at a lineup and go, I'm 15th. I need to be kidding. Yeah, because I know what's going to happen is I'm going to go. Take over. All right, here we go, right, just like what happened in Indianapolis, both me and Ray, the same thing. I saw it in him.

He was like, we're about to get carried away. We went into it. Hi, hi, how it was fun, you know. Hey, let's have a beer at the end of the day to, boom, it was full on back into like how, you know, I'm like getting together with other drivers and sharing data and, you know, and I realized I was out of shape and just all these things. And I just was like, man, I really don't want to do this often. I just, I enjoyed doing it that weekend and I enjoy going to the racetrack and driving some cars. And different cars, right? Just feeling different things and different tracks. You do like that. I actually want to go to Nurembergree.

I want to run, you know, Nerbergring one day. You drove that dirt car, that sprint car. The midget, yeah. You drove that midget. That was fun. Yeah, and I'm sitting there thinking, man, I hope he gets the bug. When I saw it social media, I was like, damn, and I hope he can't get out of that thing. And you just hop out and you're like, that's fun, okay.

Never. Because in my mind, I go, okay, like if I had to go slide somebody to make, you the position. Am I going to clear? Am I going to jump the cushion? You know, like I just start thinking about too many other things probably. Yeah, that's fascinating. Me and you a long time ago, me, you, I think Harvick, Burton, there's a couple of us, got together. Helton came to us and said, hey, let's all get together. We sat down in a, we sat down with a couple beers and me and you and a couple of the drivers in Hilton in my western town. Yep.

And contemplated like double file restarts, not racing back to the flag. All these weird, you know, all these different things, right? There were about, I don't know, half a dozen different changes to racing procedure and stuff that we contemplated. And he bounced off of us and got our opinion. That was a great thing. We did that two or three times and then it kind of just went away. But it was good. I loved it.

Yeah, it was great progress. First of all, you hosted us in the best location we could have asked for. It was private and, you know, it's a cool environment. And I think it creates. Yeah, and it created a good conversation. And like, like, hey, this isn't going to leave this room, right? We can just have these conversations be candid, right? But also, and honest and, you know, because it was the betterment of the series or the sport, right?

And I think there's some of that that takes place today, but maybe that was the early, you know, kind of beginnings of some things. But, yeah, I do wish more things like that, you know, happen because, you know, communication is everything, is everything in a business. It's everything in the sport. And so, yeah, I enjoyed, I mean, we had fun. We talked about a lot. I mean, we kind of BSed around a little bit.

And then, and I think, I mean, my can. Elton, right? I mean, he was perfect. That guy has just been amazing for NASCAR and, you know, I miss him in that role. He had such a presence and he listened, you know, and that was super cool. And I, and I've ticked him off a few times too, so I really appreciate it when I get invited some things like that. But, but no, yeah, that was a good time. I mean, you ought to crank those back up. Oh, I? You're the one, you hosted it. Well, I'll host it. Okay. Yeah. Well, the Western. still ready. Let's do it. Let's get some drivers and Phelps or O'Donnell, a couple of them guys and I'm in. Pack a cooler. Tell me what the date is and I'll make it happen.

I do. The last thing I wanted to talk to you about before we let you go is being inducted into the Hall of Fame. It's been been several years and one of the things that I always enjoy when I got inducted, we went to this dinner that happens the night before where the Hall of Famers all get together and you have dinner with the new inductees. And it's a very intimate space and everybody can have these fun conversations. And I told Amy and she agreed, she said, I was thinking the same thing when you said it. I said, Amy, for the rest of our lives, these two events, this dinner and then the ceremony, the next night, will be on our calendar.

there's no skipping this or not coming and i just wanted to know like after all these years of sort of being inducted into the hall of fame being recently named you know NASCAR 75th one of the greatest 75 drivers you were in the you were in the 50s and now the 75 and um you know what's i mean to me the hall of fame is the top like of anything that you can accomplish in this sport at least NASCAR the Hall of Fame is sort of the peak achievement you know

how do you enjoy being celebrated all these years later when you look back on your career what is it like to walk around a Hall of Famer and to be recognized as such because you're still at the racetrack every

day you're still working and fused into the sports. So how are you enjoying that? Yeah, no, it's it's it's so cool. I mean, I'm so appreciative. Again, I talk about in my my Hall of Fame speech, I talk about timing. I feel like just my timing as a race car driver, my timing as a race car driver in NASCAR could not have been any any better. And I say that talking about this because the Hall of Fame was created, right? And in the legends that, they built a sport. We're inducted and built this hall and made this hall so special and so unique. And it makes it, you know, for me, so proud, right, of what I accomplished in my career.

And it's like, it's just the ultimate kind of icing on the cake of a career if you can make it into the Hall of Fame. And, you know, I think it only gets better, like, you know, inducting Jimmy Johnson, a seven-time champion into it and yourself. And just, you know, now you start to see the names that are in there and you just go, wow, you know, I can't believe that I'm a part of this because it's such a special class, elite class to be a part of. So every year, and I agree, that Thursday, is Thursday night dinner? That's a, like, I don't want to miss that ever, right? I'm the same way I'm like put that on my calendar. It's just so cool to go in there, you know, when they bring you up on the stage in your jacket.

And you, as they're introducing everybody. And this year was cool. I was the first one to get introduced. But then I just got to watch everybody else walk up there. And it's just like every one of them is just heroes of mine. Yeah. Guys, you know, and I didn't get to race against all them. I got to race with a decent amount of them.

Now we're adding some more guys that I race, you know, against. Like Matt and you and. Jimmy and, you know, it's just, and Tony, and it's just to me, like, it's even more meaningful at this point in my life and my career. And I think it gets more so every year. I agree. And so, you know, I'm super proud of being in that hall. Yeah, speaking of the Hall of Fame and the NASCAR banquet, so the NASCAR banquet may

very well continue to be in Nashville, but I think there is a moment here where, you know, there's some conversation around should it go somewhere else. If you were at charge, right, does the banquet stay in Nashville, go back to Vegas, or do you take it to the Hall of Fame? I'm of the opinion, and I don't want to sway yours, but I'm of the opinion that with the Hall of Fame, meaning as much as it means to both of us, you just talked about that.

So, well, why wouldn't we want to celebrate one of the most, important nights of the season annually in that building and yes you know it's great when the sport can be in Vegas and celebrating its champion in other cities and and under the lights and under the magnifying glass or the spotlight of a big city like New York at the Waldorf Astoria those are some amazing events that I was able to go to as a young young guy but I think and you know moving it to Charlotte is an investment in ourselves, that Hall of Fame and the importance of the Hall of Fame and trying to grow, you know, make Charlotte that destination for our fans, make that our place where we do all of

our celebrating. Your opinion on that? Well, first of all, I think you have probably one of the best pulses on the sport in this sense, right, of its history, its connection to the fans. And so I might probably rely on you a little bit more on this one. I mean, I certainly look back and think of how special it was to be in New York, you know, and to feel like it's hard to make an impact in a big city, right? And I feel like NASCAR made a pretty significant impact, you know, all the opportunities that were happening in there. And when you're celebrating as a champion, I don't know that, you know, there would be anything like that again in our sport. You know, I thought Vegas. I mean, again, you're trying to make an impact.

You're trying to take the sport to new people and new levels. And I think it served its purpose. I love that. I think Nashville has a great vibe. And I think we're there too late, though. Like, I think it's, you know, it's, I think that time of year, it seems like Nashville doesn't just have as much of. It's not in season.

Yeah. It's not in season. And it does have a season, which I, you know, found out about. I went there this past summer during the NASCAR. Oh yeah. And it's a whole different level. It's a fun town. So I do like the connection to Nashville.

But to your point, with the Hall of Fame being here with, you know, everything that North Carolina means to NASCAR and NASCAR means to North Carolina, I certainly wouldn't be against it. Yeah. I think New York's a great argument, man. I really didn't think about it that way because they were. was a bunch of equity built up in all those years ago, to Waldorf. There was all the, you know, this was a long time ago,

but having gone there so many years in a row, like Schrader and those guys, Petrie, they had a routine. They had the places they were going to eat dinner at, the bars they were going to have beers at, plus you're all, you're right next door to any media, any major media you want to be doing during the week leading up to the banquet to celebrate our stars. so I could see it having a great impact or a big boost for our sport to go back to New York City.

I was thinking I had more fun in Vegas. Vegas was a lot of fun because, man, you'd be in the casino, you'd be in the hotel, have the banquet, grab something to eat, go gamble or go drink some beers or go to the club, and never have to leave a building, right? If you do it all in the same building, then go to a room when you're tired and ready to go to sleep. Yeah, I mean, I was just out in Vegas for the Super Bowl, and it's such a great town for events, right? And it just doesn't get any better. So it is a fun town.

But there's also tons of things going on, right? You're battling. Yeah, you're competing a bit. Yeah, competing a lot. You went to the Super Bowl, wore your 49ers gear. They came close. This is the first time I've ever gone to a Super Bowl geared out. Like, I normally, I go there, you know, and I'm in a suite and dress appropriate or whatever,

maybe a little bit of a hint of a hat or something like that. But this year I was like, I'm going all out, man. I'm not going to let Boyer out do me that she. He still outdid everybody. And he did as he normally does on all levels. But I went this year with my daughter, I took Ella, who's, you know, she's going to be 17, by the way, in June, which blows my mind. And she wanted to go.

She said, hit the 49ers go because she watches football with me from time to time and is a 49er fan as well. And so I committed, I had buyer's remorse the next day after I bought the tickets. But we went, we had a blast. I mean, the whole weekend was awesome. The game was a great game. The only downside was just the fact that they, they didn't get it done at the end. I've never been to the Super Bowl, but I went to the ND 500. What? No. How have you never been to the Super Bowl? Never been. That's unbelievable. And I really? Yeah. I mean, just because I would thought, one, I would have thought that, well, you're a Cowboys fan, is that right? No, who?

No, Washington. I'm just trying to think. So if they had gone to a Super Bowl, would you have gone? Actually, did they go? Actually, I actually did go to a Super Bowl recently. It might have been the last time. That's bad when you don't even remember. Well, New England was playing.

New England was playing. I was there nationwide for a couple days. Well, that's what I was going to say. I figured one of your sponsors along the way. We ended up at the game, and I was in a suite with NBC, and I only really got to watch like two quarters, like middle of the game. And then we kind of left early because Blaney was with us and he was in the stands with some other people that were on my team, my brand team. And he had the flu.

Oh, no. And so we left early because he was starting to wipe out. Oh, no. Yeah. And so usually people wipe out with a different kind of flu from the super. If Washington ever goes back, I wouldn't miss it. Yeah. But I got to ask you, like I've been to the.

the Indy 500, that is the only other event maybe comparable to the Daytona 500 or anything we do in NASCAR. And seeing the spectacle, the tradition, the pageantry and all of the things will lead up to the race, it's insane. And I know you've seen it. The Super Bowl, you know, where does it rank? Is it hard to comprehend or hard to articulate the moment and how big that is? you've been to a lot of big events in your life

and you obviously are going to automatically compare all of those to your experience in NASCAR. So where does that Super Bowl rank? So I rank events and experiences off of the energy, right? Like what do I feel the people that are there are bringing? Yes. And how is it making me feel? And first of all, a stadium, right, you can't beat it.

even the clash, right, for NASCAR. What I love about the clash is the energy. You know, you're able to have music playing where everybody gets into it and they're dancing. And while the racing, you know, is on this tiny little bullring and I don't know if it's the best racing, the atmosphere is great. And so to me, a Super Bowl, it's just hard to beat it because you're just, you're in that stadium and you've got the rivalry happening between the two teams. You know, you've got avid fans for their team. You got celebrities, you know. What was the halftime like?

Half time was good. I'll tell my quick halftime story here real quick. So I'm in seats. Very happy in my seats. I'm on the NFC side with mainly my Niner fans. Is there a side? There's an ASC and an NFC side? Well, when you buy tickets, they definitely tell you.

So even though there were people mixing. the route, but I think there were more Niner fans on our side. And so Boyer, who was on the opposite side and was in a suite, of course, right, with all his celebrity friends. So he's calling me, he's like, you got to come over here. You got to come over here. And I'm like, man, I love my seats. I'm happy. Like, teams doing good. I don't know. And he's like, listen, halftime's coming, and it's facing me. It's not facing you. I was like, how do you know that? He's like, trust me. I know. So I'm like, I tell Ella, you know, I said, well, what do you think? And she's like, I don't know.

I think we should stay here. And I said, I agree. I don't want. I said, and now it's the clock's ticking and we're getting closer, you know, to the end of the half. And he, and so Boyer calls back. He goes, you got to get over here. You know, Gwen's here and Blake's here. And Post Malone is here.

And my daughter here is Post Malone. Now you're going. And she's like, let's go. And so we take off on this mad dash to get around to that side. We're going so fast, we blow right by the entrance to get to where he's at. Now he's calling me, where are you at, where are you at? I back up. We get in there.

I'm sweating, like, running. And we've missed like the first two minutes of the halftime show starting. And so, but we're there, and it was great. And it was cool and fun people. And she got to meet Post Malone. and Gwen and Blake and, you know, there's, and it was a great environment. And, of course, Boyer's always the life of the party no matter what. And so, you know, my daughter's very happy, but I missed half the halftime show.

So I had to watch it on TV when I came home to see what it was all about. But it was cool, you know, I mean, you know, I like Usher and Ludacris. And it's, you know, all the halftime shows always usually translate well over across TV when you're watching at home. I mean, the camera puts you right in there. Yeah. And I was wondering, like, when you're at the game. It doesn't have, yeah, it doesn't have the same impact, in my opinion. Although me and my wife were talking about this, about, because we've been to a handful of Super Bowls, and our favorite one was Prince.

Yeah. Because he started singing in Purple Rain, and it was raining. It was an open stadium, and it was raining. And it just, besides whether you're a Prince fan or not, just, I don't know, it just seemed like, You know, it was a big, big moment of him performing and that music and that song. And just felt like, you know, again, the energy just felt like everybody was really into it. Well, man, I don't know if we, I don't know if there's something we didn't cover that you wanted to mention while you were here. But I feel like we did a good job of covering some tracks and appreciate you giving us some time.

You got a busy week coming up with the Daytona 500. When are you leaving? I appreciate you, number one. And I have a feeling that I feel like I'm. late for meeting. I'm going to be in trouble here. But I've enjoyed the time, man, and I appreciate, you know, you getting into things that we don't normally get to talk about, which is cool and your passion for the sport.

Yeah, since it's Valentine's Day, I'm going to stay home for Valentine's Day and leave the next morning. So I'll go down for the duels, and then I'll be there, you know, for the rest of the week. Big week. I mean, you know, we, you know, we just have a lot of folks and guests. that come in that we get to entertain and they're excited about it. And listen, as far as events go, I'll put the Daytona 500 up against anything. I just, I love it.

I love the pageantry. I love the energy and the excitement. It still gives me the same chills. Even though I'm not driving, I still get the same chills as if I was before that green flag drops. Yeah, because you know what's about to happen. Man, I'll be there Saturday, hopefully taking one of our junior sports drivers to Victor Lane.

appreciate you. You can stick around Sunday and see if we can take one of our Hendrick driver. By the way, we've not won it since you won it in 14. So we've got some work together. Yeah, I think you've got the speed to do it, though. I hope so. Thanks for coming.

Jeff Gordon on the Dell Jr. Download. It's a great time talking to Jeff. I feel like we learned a lot. I think he might have held back a little bit on some things. But you could tell, man, that this is a critical moment for the team owners in NASCAR to find some resolution. and the new charter agreement and certainly excited to

see Hendrick Motorsports and how they may perform coming into this new season and still no plans to get Jeff behind the wheel of a car at least to race an oval anytime soon. I'm going to keep hammering on him. But thanks again, Ally,

no matter what you're saving for, whether it's race tickets to the next race, a new car, even a new home. We're all better off with an ally. All right, it's time for White Flag. Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi. are in Daytona this week, recapping all of the action at the racetrack.

They will be live right after the duels tomorrow. So check in with them after the duels tomorrow for another episode of the Teardown. Denny Hamlin's podcast dropped Monday, so make sure you check that out. He shared his bold predictions ahead of the 2024 season and also what his expectations are for himself this year. Another episode of Speed Street drops today, and Dirty Mo Doe with Steve LaTart already.

in full swing. They handicapped the field for the 500 Monday. They'll be back Friday to give us a full preview of the Daytona 500. And finally, we've got a new Dale Jr. Download spinoff podcast. It's called DJD Reloaded. I love this show. I checked out our first episodes this past week. We've already heard some great things from the fans.

It's a show where the fans get to engage. We loved hearing what Cord LaJoy had to say after I predicted he would make the playoffs with a win this year. And everybody came up with some great. great new alter egos for Christopher Bell. We're going to fire it up again this Thursday, so make sure we get to hear from you. Give us your best reactions, your best opinions. Call this number 704-584-9703. All right, that's it.

That's my week here on the Dell Jr. download. A lot of fun. Can't wait to come in next week and react to the Daytona 500. Man, it's going to be fun tuning in to all of the action this weekend. I'll be in Daytona for Saturday for the Xfinity race. hoping to see Junior Motorsports to take the win. So until then, we'll see you. Check out

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