The Dale Jr. Download - 519 - Waddell Wilson: NASCAR's Pioneer Of Speed

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Dale Earnhardt Jr. invites NASCAR Hall of Fame engine builder and crew chief Waddell Wilson to the Bojangles Studio for a conversation about his storied career. Waddell details his journey from his home of Bakersville, North Carolina to the Nashville Auto Diesel College, which he learned about from a recruiter at his high school. Upon graduation, his journey took him to Florida, where he actually took a chance on racing himself at Miami-area strongholds like Hialeah, Palmetto and Hollywood. Eventually, a demolished racecar would extinguish his hopes of making a living behind the wheel and he headed back home in search of work.Waddell explains that at the suggestion of a friend he went to inquire about a job at the famed Holman-Moody race team, which at the time was Ford’s manufacturing arm in NASCAR. After a chance meeting with owner John Holman, Waddell was thrown into the most challenging area of the shop: the engine room. He passed an initiation of sorts and over time developed into one of NASCAR’s greatest engine building minds. Waddell went on to build engines for and work with some of NASCAR’s greatest drivers, and he fills listeners in on the characters inside the helmet like Fireball Roberts, Bobby Allison and Buddy Baker. Finally, Dale gets to pick Waddell’s brain about the legendary “Gray Ghost” Oldsmobile that helped Ranier Racing and Buddy Baker be a dominant force at superspeedways in 1979 and ‘80.FanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download guest segment here this Wednesday, brought to you by Ally. Ally is a great partner here at the Dale Junior Download. We're very thankful for them bringing us this guest segment. Widel Wilson is our guest today. He is a Hall of Fame engine builder in NASCAR. Just built some of the most incredible motors. Looking forward to getting him in here.

But first, quick word from our sponsors. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. This season, I'm not. The Dale Jr. download. And she was a single mom for that whole 20 weeks in a row. And she had to clean up the piss. And she had to make all the meals while I'm off chasing race cars and chasing a dream. I don't think Hendrick Motorsports has made a profit in 10 years.

The leverage is that right now, we don't have a charter agreement that guarantees that the teams have to show up. Andy and I had our own channel between the two of us when he was. crew chief for you dad. And y'all would talk amongst ourselves. We'd talk amongst ourselves. Yep. Bulls. Yeah, that's the truth.

I was a crew chief on the 24 and built a set of shocks for the three-clock. Unreal. All right. So, I'm excited to have Waddell come in here. He's out there in the lobby waiting. But I'm looking forward to getting him in here and asking him some questions. This guy is a Hall of Fame engine builder. What would be a crew chief?

I want to know, you know, exactly. You know, when I think about Waddell, I think about motors. I think about some of the best engines we've ever seen come through the sport. Motors that have accomplished some incredible things. I think about the gray ghost and how fast that car was. And Kell Yarborough running 200 mile an hour flipping upside down at Daytona. But I don't think about crew chief. He was a crew chief for many drivers and won races.

But how much did he know about shocks and springs and setups? I want to ask him about that and a lot of other things too. And so we're going to get him in here and get started. I want to thank Ally for being able to bring these guest segments to you every single week. Allies, you know, been a great supporter of Dirtymoe Media and the Dell Jr. Download and the industry as a whole sponsoring Alex Bowman and races as well and just being a great partner for NASCAR, just being such a great ally. They do it right.

Well, let's get him in here. Wadale Wilson. with Del Jr. Downloor. All right, Waddell. Thanks for coming today, man. It's good to see you. Well, thanks for invites. You came over by yourself.

Oh, yes. Where are you from? Denver. Denver, North Carolina? On the other side of the lake. Yeah. How long have you lived over there? Oh, several years, yes.

87 years old. Older and dirt. That is old, man. I'm turning 50 this year, and I feel like that's a big deal, but good Lord, man. Well, you know, it's hard to believe. I've survived and all I put myself through in my life. And, you know, I look around and all the people I used to work with are gone. Yes.

That is exactly what I want to talk about on top of the show here. When I look at your age and how well you move around, how sharp your mind is, and think about the industry you worked in and all the harmful things that you put yourself around and through, right? all the chemicals and things that y'all were around and exposed to that you didn't know at a time, right? Where just like drivers, like racers having asbestos in the floorboard back in the day, not knowing the dangers of that, but you're in great shape. And your mind is sharp. Your memory's great. You're moving pretty good.

Well, I've had both knees replaced, both shoulders replaced. you know, warm out. All the years I changed tires. I changed. I was always the front tire change. Except one year and I changed, I was Jackman on the Ransans car. Right.

And so you were in really, really good shape back then in those days. You know, carrying those big heavy jacks around and all that stuff, you must have taken really, really good care of yourself. Well, you know, I was very athletic in school. And, you know, I tried to always eat right. and didn't get to do much exercise other than changing tires. And, you know, I know some of the places we'd go change so many tires on a Monday morning and I'd have to throw myself out of bed, I'd be so sore.

So when you talk about being athletic in school, had you had your own choice to make, would you have been an athlete in college and maybe pro sports? No, I wasn't there really that good, you know, to look into being that kind of a player, you know, what sports did you compete against them? Well, I played baseball and baseball and football, and in college I played basketball. What basketball? What did you enjoy the most? Well, basketball.

Yeah. What position did you play? Guard. And you played in college. Yes. Yeah. What college? Nice for Lotton D.A College.

Really? Were y'all good? Did y'all win games? Oh, we won very good. No. Yeah. So you're from Bakersville, North Carolina. Right.

Right. And you grew up and fell in love with racing at a young age. Right. How were you exposed? I mean, racing, as we know it, it was different back then, right? Like in the 40s and 50s, they were driving stock, stock, stock cars right off the showroom. Right. So how do you fall in love with racing back in the 40s and 50s?

Well, you listen to the races on the radio. They had it on the radio. Oh, yes. And then the next thing is I always love fast cars. Yeah. So kids at school fixing their cars up, that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. Hot rods and Model T's.

or whatever. What were y'all doing? What were y'all messing with? Well, changing mufflers and things like that. C carburetors and... Did you take the muffler slam off? Oh, we'd change the muffler and put illegal mufflers on. And get it in the depth of how we told me we gave you a ticket for it.

So what kind of work did you do on cars when you were young in school? Were you building motors back then? No. No. Didn't get nothing like that. I'd tire the transmission up in my old forward and then I'd have to get on and change all that. So, you know, I was mechanically inclined because I couldn't afford nobody to pay anyone to do it. So I had to do it myself.

Yeah. Did you have any odd jobs? Did you work jobs when you were killed? At times I'd work the service station on the weekends. What'd you do in a service station? I did pump gas. Yeah. I did that too.

One of the last, well, it wasn't a full service station. I think one side had self-served, but one of the last stations here on exit 36-77 was an Exxon station owned by a guy named Ramey, and I worked a summer over there pumping gas and eating at the Waffle House out back. So you go,

what was the Nashville? You went to Nashville? Right, to the... Yeah, to Otto and Diesel. that's a bit of a drive from Bakersville, North Carolina. Oh, I didn't, you know, went over in state. I know, but. I know, but how did you know about it?

How did you, why did you want to? They were some kind of came through the school. A guy came to the school. A guy came to the school. And you're like, man, that sounds awesome. I'm going. There's other automotive diesel colleges closer. No?

Not that I'm aware of. Not back then. So went to Nashville. Nashville, what was that like? Well, it was good. You know, I enjoyed it, you know, learned a lot from it. Yeah. Was it a big country town back then?

I mean, it's not the city it is today back when you were going to college there, but was it a music town back then? Yeah, they had the Grand Ole Opry. I remember some of the boys that went to college there, they parked hardest for the Grand Ole Opry. Yeah. Hey, that's pretty cool. So how long did you spend time in Nashville at the school?

Well, I graduated. A couple years? Yeah. I don't remember the length of the time it was. But so you lived there. Yes. Oh, yes. What was that like being away from home?

Well, you know, that was different, but it was okay. It was very adjustable. Yeah. You end up going down to Florida and got work in Orlando. Am I right? That was the first place to work. Right. What happened?

What were you doing at there? I worked there. There's a company. You know, they had the stationary engines, worked on them, and then they went out of business, and then I found out there was a opening in Miami for central truck lines, so I took that job down there. Working on diesel trucks?

Yeah, I was a diesel mechanic, and then I ended up to work for Cummings Diesel. Are you by yourself? Oh, yeah. You got a girlfriend? Nope. No. Not at that time.

So did you miss your family? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Who's at home? Who's in North Carolina? line at this time. My own father and my brother. You got a brother.

Yeah. Is he older? Younger? Younger. And so during the time you're in Southern Florida, you began racing yourself. Right. You're driving. So are you doing this with your buddies at work?

No. Some of the guys that were hung out of the service station, we put an old car together. Okay. And, you know, it all happened on a Saturday night. You know, we went to the races and I said, well, I could do that. They said, okay. So they built me a race car. And I didn't win the first time, but I did win later.

Yeah. So you drove cars. Oh, yeah. Love that. I always thought I was better driving than I was a mechanic. Nobody ever talks about you driving a race car. I guess you tell that story some. But when I think about you, I think he's view as an engine builder.

And I didn't know you had any experience behind the wheel. So you raced at Halea Pilemmetto and Hollywood all around in that Florida. area, same tracks that Red Farmer and Allison Brothers ended up making famous. Jelopee, street stocks, sportsmen cars. You had modest success? What eventually pulls you out of the driver's seat? Well, I was able to win some races, believe it or not. But what happened?

I tore my own race call to pieces, and then I just said, you know, I give up on it. Do you remember the crash? Oh, yes. What happened? Well, it had an inverted start, and this guy, I was on the front row pole, so we, they inverted, put us the back, and we was working away up through the field, and this one guy going down the back there, we passed him, and he didn't like that idea, so he pushed me into the wall and turned me up on my side.

Dang. What kind of car was it? It was a 36 Ford Coupe. Yep. And so damaged the car beyond repair? Well, it totaled it pretty much. Yeah, it was dirt. You were out of money?

Yeah, that took your money. Racing was a tough business back then financially. Oh, yes. So you moved back to North Carolina eventually. So you crashed the car. You're not going to fix it. You're frustrated about that. You're working at Cummings?

Right, Cummings-Daysson. Why do you decide to move home? I just decided to come back home, you know. Was it you missing your family? Well, there's some work opportunities there? I just decided to go back home, you know. What do boys in Florida tell you? They tell you not to leave?

Well, I've seen them after that. They'd come to some of the racetracks where I was finally, you know, working on the race cars. You all stayed in touch? Yeah, some of it. Yeah. So you end up coming back to North Carolina. You worked at a Ford dealership. Right.

You lost your job. Well, what happened? They changed the people that owned a place. You know, they sold out to these people. people. Well, they didn't like me and I didn't like them. Why? I don't know. It was a odd situation. Boy, I just grabbed up my tools. Were you the lead engine guy? Were you the...

No, it's just a line mechanic. You're a line mechanic. Yeah. So in the dealership, when I worked in the service department, you had an engine guy, you had the front-in alignment guy, you had the quick-loop guy, that was me. You had another guy, you had a couple general mechanics that could do just about anything, fix a door, you know, fix a door handle or a broke mirror or whatever. Back in those days, when you were working in the dealership,

did they have specialty? No, they just give you a job. You figured it out. That's awesome. And the cars were so much easier to work on back then. I bet it was a lot of fun. It was, you know, it was pretty easy to fix them, you know. Do you remember if you worked on commission or not?

Yeah, that's what I did. You did. I'm doing good at that. Was it competitive with the other line mechanics? Oh, yeah. Yeah, dang. We weren't that competitive because everybody had a, everybody knew that, you know, the engine guy's going to get the engine job, the alignment guy's going to get the

alignment job. So we didn't all work against each other or work, we weren't trying to work, get work from each other. But I imagine back in the day, man, it was pretty competitive. So how did you end up getting, out of the out of the, so you got fired out of the dealership. Well, really didn't get fired to be honest with you.

And what happened? These new guys come in? They didn't like me. They just said they weren't keeping you. And I said, I'm out of here. Oh, you left. I was wanting to get out anyway. So anyway, I come to Charlotte.

Wait, wait. How far is Bakerfield from Charlotte? I don't know, 100 so miles something. Not sure. Why did you come to Charlotte? Well, I knew that that'd be a good place to look for work. Why? Charlotte's business.

a big city? A lot going on. A lot going on. I need a couple of people there in Charlotte that I can stay with while I found me a job. Were you thinking racing? No, I had no clue of that one.

What happened the first couple of days, I'm looking for diesel work because I worked at Cummings Diesel in Miami and I like building diesel engines. So anyway, for two days, I couldn't find nothing. So anyway, a friend of mine on the Tuesday night, he said, why don't you go ask home when Moody?

I think, yeah, that's a joke. So I'm going to Home of the Moody, one of those if he's hiring anybody, and the general manager who met me at the door, and he asked me if he could help me. And I told him, I was looking for employment.

He said, well, we're not hiring nobody. We don't need no help. Very sarcastic. Yeah. So anyway. Sounds about like somebody in racing. Yeah. Well, next to me.

Anyway, so I'm going out the door, not disappointed because I'd say, so I figured I get it and run into John Holman. He said, kind of happy. Did you know who he was when you saw him? Uh, not really. I had a vague idea that that was John Holman. But anyway, he said, well, step in my office.

Just like that. Yeah. And so I worked in an office. He goes behind, sits down his desk, and he's opening mailman, and I'm telling what I've done in racing, built me engines and drove the car and did all this. And finally, I didn't think he was paying any attention to what I said. So finally I said, well, I graduated from nice flot on diesel cars. he looked up at me the first time and he said, be here at 8 o'clock in the morning.

What was it about the college experience that mattered? I don't know. Just that triggered him. Let me ask you a question. All of your, everything you learned about working on diesel motors, was any of that helpful in your future as a successful engine builder in motor sport? No. Right.

So where did you learn, where do you credit learning? the craft of building a V8, you know, small block. Well, really, never had nobody to teach me or showing me anything. You just had a field for it, really. Yeah. So you go work at home Moody in 1963? Three, yeah. Building motors right away.

Well, he'd stuck me in injury. Well, let me tell you the rest of that story. Yeah. And there's a guy named Hard Rock come to the Hall of Fame several years back, and he came to him and said, I need to tell the rest of your story. He said, when you come to work there and they put you in the engine room, they put you in their room to get rid of you.

And I know when I went in there. Put you in the engine room to get rid of you? Yeah, because they're the ones of people from Virginia, not know North Carolina people in that engine room. Really? That's what I found out later. They said they give you the hardest job they could give you and figure you're going to goof up and they're going to get you out of the door.

Yeah. And Lee Terry was over the engine room. And I'd go to lunch or break, whatever, and they'd check it out. And he finally said, you know, he must be something special. I ain't a thing we can find wrong that he's doing him. We might as well just leave him alone. So, you know, after that, you know, first thing, no Lorenzo knew about it. And he wanted my engines and it went from there.

So right out of the gate, your first, what was your first true responsibility at Holman and Moody? Well, just build an complete engine. Yes. They hire you and like here, here's the motor building. All right? And so do you remember, can you remember the very first engine you built where it went? No. Who drove it?

Where's your motor going into what car? Well, you know, we just line them up and they come and pick them up. Okay. So y'all, how many people were building motors? They were six. They were six. And then 65, we built 500 some engines. And you would have team owners and drivers come over.

you know, and pick their motor up. It'd be assigned to someone. Yeah, right. And so all these, so it was like an, it was like an assembly, like an engine, true engine shop. But, uh, each person built the only engine. You didn't part, do parts of it. Right.

You build a motor and somebody came and got it, took it to the racetrack and raced it, and then they brought it back and you'd be, you'd be, you'd be doing. That was it. That was about it. You'd go to the racetrack? Oh, yeah. Did you go and work on the car where your motor was? Oh, yes.

You were responsible for tuning it? As always, you know, start with on the rindler's car, I was Jackman. And then after that, I was a front tire-trier. Okay. And so you worked for Holman Moody, building motors. You also pitted cars and their cars. And so you were seven days a week working on a Holman-Moodie race car. And a normal day back then.

It was eight in the morning or ten at night. Yeah. Because I'm trying to understand. was home the holman moody organization to me is just a little confusing because they had a lot of different cars they owned some cars and then other people would buy cars from them and go race them um you say they had six engine builders uh building motors every week multiple you know you had your homo moody had their own in-house cars running their motors plus they had other motors and other motors and other the cars out in the field. All the Ford cars, engines and cars come out at Holman Moody. So back in those days, for people listening, back in those days, Holman Moody was the, was basically Ford's manufacturing arm.

Right. So if you were a Ford and you needed Ford factory support, that's where you got it from Holman Moody. Oh, yes. Yeah. In the NASCAR stock car industry. It was really a unique. situation because then,

because as you know, factory of support has always been a part of racing, but Holman Moody and that type of organization doesn't truly exist today. Now it's team owners and it's a little different. So that's something that I, it

wasn't around when I was younger. It's interesting to hear you describe it and what it must have been like to work there. So Holman Moody is massively respected in our world. Oh, they were the company back then.

Holman Moody was well known for parts and engines and, you know, and it was Ford factory backed all the way. Yes, I want to, I'm getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but I want to know, like, why does Holman Moody come to an end? Well, that's a good question. You know, the last time we run a race choir there was in, with Bobby Allison in 71. and that was a Coke car, the number 12, that was so successful. And then the year by before that, we run David Pierce from the championship 68 and 69,

won the championship two years in a row. And then at the end of, you know, Bobby's run there in 71, you know, they shut it down. They won no more team, no more race car running out at home of the movie. And then Holman, you know, said, you know, just build engines. So anyway, Glenn Wood come to me to build his engines. So did you see this coming? Was this like a, you would walk into work one day and they're like, hey, we're not doing this anymore? Was this fast?

Was it long time coming? Well, it was a shock because, you know, we were very successful, Bobby Allison winning all over the races. We won. And, you know, this end of the year, he and Moody got into it. They had a little disagreement. Holman fired Moody. But they are not a partnership? Oh, yes.

definitely but they didn't they didn't get along from day one sad to say yeah well all right that makes more sense then um they're they're celebrated even today after all these years and i just you know not heard that there was a disagreement but it's just so interesting to to look back and have somebody that was right there in the middle of it um imagine like how maybe that possibly could have been you know continued on I do want to step back. You worked on Fireball Roberts car. All right?

One time. One time. One year, yeah. One year, right? What was Fireball Roberts like? He was amazing guy. The media loved him. Yes.

And I'd always come to him to get a story out of him. And at the end, they didn't have no place to hide when they come to the racetrack. So they hung fireball, get up on the workbench and sit there and watch us work on his race car. Yeah. And we'd been on their own pit ball. And I remember back then, you know, they didn't. He didn't have nothing special when they'd get in that race car, and he'd get in that with dungrys on, a pear penny loafers,

a t-shirt, a three-quarter helmet, and his sunglasses, and that was it. I tell him he climbed that race car. So the year that he gets hurt and killed at Charlotte, you were on Fred's car. Fred Lorenzo, right. But I do want to ask you, you know, that's fireball driving a home of Moody car. And although you're not working on that car in that particular race, that had to be pretty tragic, right, to see all that play out.

Yeah, at the end of 63, that's whenever home or Lorenzen coming, moody and want me to be on Lorenzo's car. Yeah. But then being at the racetrack that day, whenever Fireball got on fire on the backstress, that was the most horrible scene I've ever seen until this day. Really? That was horrible. And, you know, he's one guy that I really had a lot of respect for.

He was a great guy to work for, and he was good for the public relations, whatever it was he could do. Yeah. He was a amazing man. Yeah, that was a very tragic day. And, you know, Ned Jarrett's told the story many times, and I just have to wonder what that must have been like to be in the Holman Moody camp going through that and having a fireball so severely injured. and eventually he would pass away due to those burns. But, you know, that losing fireball was the company, did the company feel that when he was burned

and when that accident happened, did that, you know, when you come to work the next day, the next week, was that conversation dominating the engine room? you know what what was the emotions like for everybody at home of moody well it was a sad time there's no doubt about it because i still remember like it was yesterday and it was a horrible thing and they brought the car and put it in the back of the shop you know and covered it up yeah and it's set there for a while but i mean that was that was just the heartbreak to everybody yeah and then they have then to see it happen on the backstretched charlotte that's that was unbelievable how bad it

Yeah. Well, you know, you got to win races with Fireball. You end up going and working on Fred's car for a year. Talk about you went to Fred with a USAC stock car racing in Indianapolis Raceway Park, the road course. Right. It's 64. What is, is USAC stock car? and NASCAR competitive in this area?

Well, that was very, very unusual. The first time that I remember we'd done something like that. You know, we always run down here, and I remember the start of the season, Richard Petty has won at one Daytona, and then the next six races or seven, we won on the runs, and then went to that road towards up there in Indy,

and we end up winning that race, I'll never forget. Yeah. And he come picked us up at the end of one pit road and took us down pit road, and I'll never figure. That was a security size of my life. It wasn't nothing to hold onto on that race car.

Yeah. And he was going very fast. So riding on the race car after a win, you know, there's so many images of teams climbing all over those old, you know, Oldsmobile 4-42s and Monte Carlo's in the late 70s and riding a Ventral Lane. So you say in my notes here that you almost fell off the car that day. Did you ever get back on a race car? That was enough. That was enough. That's flitting up, fear in me.

So when Buddy Baker wins the 1980 Daytona 500 and he rides everybody to Victor Lane, you didn't get on the car that year? I'd had a hard time. Yeah, I know. It'll look like a bunch of a hand. That's car I'll find you these days. You climb on the car. I thought that was the coolest thing ever to watch everybody ride the car,

Richard Petty in 79. Everybody riding the car into Victor League. Oh, yeah. How hot were the, you see them old guys as sponsors and like who was the guy? The Gatorade guy. Or no. Who's the SDP guy? Granitelli.

You see these guys in these like slacks hop on these hot ass race cars at the end of the race. And I'm like, how in the hell is that not burning their ass when they're riding on the hood of that sum of a gun on the way to Victory Lane? Because you know it's hotter now. The roof or the hood of that car. I wish I don't know what it was like to ride on one of them old cars in the 70s of Victory Lane. But they stopped doing that. That was a scary moment.

when homie moody shuts down i mean everybody that worked there they didn't should they just stop taking cars to the racetrack they continue they just they continue building motors though right and they you know they let bobby go and moody's home and fired moody and that was the end of that but they kept building motors

well that's whenever glen wood and leonard come to me and want to know if i'd build any of them so in 72 you know i built engines for the Wood brothers And then I remember That's forward mercury It was mercury

Yeah Had the 429 Baws 429 engines And I hated that end Why? That's just what they wanted to run Why'd you hate it? It took a half a day

To just stretch the rod bolts in the thing What is stretching a rod bolt? That's to get the right length And right to work together How do you stretch a rod bolt? Well you can stretch it But you know There's a trick to it

Tell me Well you put a little oil on To start with Make sure how freaking to it. Yeah. And then you torque it down and you've got a mic that you check to start with and then you stretch it and then you stretch, put the mic back on again and make sure

you've got the right stretch in it and the right foot pounds of torque in it. Yeah. And so it takes a day. Half a day. Half a day. I hated that engine. I still do. So if you didn't stretch it, if you didn't stretch it.

Well, it's a good, there's a good, you know, reason for a loss. You lose your engine. You know, the bolts would break, whatever. You, you had to go by whatever, you know, NASCAR or not NASCAR, or not NASCAR, Ford, you give you the specs and how they want it done, and that's what you built it to. Man. So you hated working on that motor because it took so long to work on it.

Oh, they was very successful. I mean, AJ Dobitz started where they won in California and Ontario, then they come to Daytona, won the Daytona 500. Were you in Daytona? For the 500 when AJ won driving to Woodbuthers car? Nope. You built the motor? I know, but I didn't, I wasn't on the pit crew or anything.

So you wouldn't. So you wouldn't. You were just sitting at home or working on the motors at home. Yeah. Dang, you'd think he'd go down there and be in Daytona for the 500. It just seems crazy. Speed weeks. No, I just, you know, built that.

Who's tuning on your motor at the racetrack? Leonard, I guess. Leonard. I don't know. Yeah. Did you like working with Leonard? Because me and Leonard are pretty close. and I always just thought the world to him.

I thought the world, Leonard, and we, you know, we swap carburetors once in a while. He'd come get one to me and said, I've got killed. And, you know, he was a great guy. Yeah. Very good what he was doing. And Glenn, you know, he's a great manager of the whole thing.

He owned it. But I enjoyed working with those guys. Pearson drove at the latter part of the season. Yeah, you like, you kind of, they came to you, did they not come to you and ask you about Pearson Drive? in that car? Well, the funny thing about it, AJ was going to go to the Indic then. He had to get out of that car.

And Glenn come and ask me, who would you put in that race car? He was one guy, David Pearson, put him in that race car and put him in Leonard together. And I said, you have a win your combination. He can win races. Because I've done work with him two years in 68 and 69. We won the championship two years a row. And we won a hundred run a hundred races that year. It was two years.

Man. And that would develop an incredible dynasty with the Wood Brothers and David Pearson. In 73, this is interesting to me. You end up going to L.G. DeWitt to work on Benny Parsons' cars. Right. And now, they win a championship.

Yeah, that first year, they won the championship, yeah. Yeah. They finished on a lead lap one time. Well, they won one right? They won Bristol. Did they? Yeah. So he wins one race, and that was his only lead-lap finish, I think.

I remember Victor Lane because I was up there on Bobby's car, and they wanted to know why I didn't come over. Benny did, why didn't come over to Victor Lane. I didn't feel in place to do that. But anyway, I don't know. I just had my job to do there, and I stayed there with it. So what was it like working? LG DeWitt. Now, I don't want to discredit this team, but this is a, this is their good team.

They ran well, very reliable. That's how Benny wins the championship. That's how Benny was ever, you know, able to find himself going to Victor Lane was mainly like, you know, outlasting people, right? Just the car never broke. Rarely did they have any mechanical failures. but he wasn't going to go out there and beat the Wood Brothers or outrun Richard Petty you're you're coming off of two championships with Pearson went in 10 some races with Bobby Allison and you're going to go

what drew you over to the 72 car with Benny well they talked to me coming there with them and I'd say you know but it was a young the team had not you know really accomplished anything Were you curious about what they could become or how much you could help? Well, I felt that, you know, I could help just so much, naturally. You know, I could be like take care of the engines for you. That's where I can go to race track and tune the engine. Yeah.

I can change tires if you need a tire changer or a jack man. And the crew chief on that car. Who was the crew chief eventually, though? Travis Carter. Was Travis Carter? Was Travis Carter the crew chief in 73? Yeah. He was?

For as my best I remember he was, yeah. And he was with it again whenever we, you know, won the Daytona 500, he was with it. Yeah, that's 1975. I wanted to talk about that. Great story that you often share about an engine. So Benny Parsons comes up to you at Riverside in California with a set of heads from some drag racer

and wants you to put them in a motor. Is that, am I getting, getting a start? me when he came to him in and showed me of them and I said that's drag race pistons it was pistons what it was oh sorry what did I say and what did I say he is I think is what you said but anyway it was a set of pistons yeah and this guy said he said he swear is it they can win Daytona with it I said that's quarter mile of pistons they don't run 500 miles yeah he said yeah we got to build it I said okay and money was short Delgy and Benny went to Daytona to get an advance on the season and money.

So anyway, we get to the shop. I build the engine, and I'm thinking, well, where's parts, you know, I get parts to build another, we don't have no money to buy it. So you build the motor with the, with the pistons Benny wants? Right. He gave, you know, and now you're going to build a spare.

And anyway, go build a spar. Well, the year before, that's when we had all those failures of engines, because they downsize and the aftermarket didn't, hadn't caught up with rods and cranks and pistons and everything else. So anyway, I go through all the junk and find enough parts to put an engine together with, just to be an engine. And it's got normal pistons, despair. Well, yeah, it's got used stuff in it.

I did have some new bearings and rings going, and that's it. But it don't have drag race pistons in it. No, it has old pistons that been run. Gotcha. So anyway, I put that engine together, and we go to Daytona. and Benny said, well, we'll leave this engine in the new one and run a couple lapsed and then we'll take it out and run the 500. Okay, two laps later, that thing blowed up.

The one with the drag race pistons? Yeah. I told him it was a quarter mile pissing. He wouldn't believe me. It blew up. Anyway, so we got this old slave engine. I wouldn't give you $200 for the thing. Put it in the car and we practice, we qualified, we run the 25th or whatever.

I think we had to fall out of it because we wouldn't have started 30-something in the race, 31st, 32nd in the race. So he comes down halfway through the race, and he's in the top five running with him. I think, how's that engine hanging together? Yeah. Anyway, come down there next to the end, and the Wood Brothers is leading the race with, anyway,

with David Pearson. And something happened, he ran in on a slow car and spun out. Down the back straight. Yeah, so we ended up in leading the race, and I'm thinking, what size is that? engine because to start where they

go down to 364 and then they went to 358 and I had no clue what I put together. Right. So anyway, we come back and he wins a race and I'll never forget, LG

the way it was so excited about that. He couldn't even enjoy it. It was way beyond his wildest imagination and Benny I thought he's going to squeeze me inside down because he was, it was way beyond him thinking about going down and winning that. And then all I can think of before the race over what size is that engine could it could have the wrong crank in it

so anyway we go through victory lane and then they go to the tire down and then they page me i don't want to go to tire down anyway i said okay i'll go and i tore it down and it was okay but thank goodness i scared the death of that when was your last season with de wit was that that was pretty much after that, you know. It was a 200-mile round trip to the shop, right? You did that for multiple years. Yeah, I got tired of doing that. And Roger Penske wanted to come to work for him.

And he met him at Charlotte Motor Speedway or the airport. And we made it, worked a deal out and I'd go to work for him. What were you going to do for him? Build engines. For his indie car stuff? No, no, no. For NASCAR? because he had a team with Bobby Allison, right?

Right. But DeWitt found out about this. Well, I went to the shop and told him about it. He sits on a set of pistons. Two hours later had me convinced that I couldn't leave in the middle of the season, which wasn't the right thing to do, which I knew that. And he convinced me to stay with him to the end of the year.

And I did. I stayed with him. I hate to call Roger until him I wasn't going to be able to go to work for him. Wow. So you never went to work for Roger Pinsky, ever. We're still friends today. I know when I got inducted in the Hall of Fame, he was the first one to congratulate me.

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and you get free domestic shipping when you use this promo code, download 24. That's free shipping with the promo code download 24 at Lionelracing.com. 1978, you go work for Harry Reneer. Right. This is, I love this car, and this car has an incredible history in our sport.

you were hired to build engines for the Rainier team. They were a new young team. Lenny Pons the driver. Right. And Lenny is a dang trip. So I did a little studying on Lenny about what kind of driver he was. And the guy, I don't know, Lenny to me, and you know, you can have whatever opinion. you want but lennie to me could not get out of his own way

out of the car like he he he he was a good racer um but created a lot of unnecessary problems for himself when trying and how he dealt with people right how he managed situations right um and so um he but he had a very loyal fan base from virginia he did you know that really believed in his ability What was working with Lenny like? He's a fascinating character from the late 70s, early 80s. Well, I never had no problem with Lenny.

You know, he and I got along fine. I remember being at Talladega with him, and I told Harry Renier, I said, he's not running the lines. He needs to run with that race car, you know. He said, well, you tell him. I said, well, I never told the driver how to drive a race car in my life. he said well you need to tell him

so I'd tell him I'd say we'll draft this and pull him behind that one and he ends up winning the race which is hard to believe but that that was a fast race car he was very capable winning the race to start with so we won the race with him man but he gets

he gets removed from the car and they bring Buddy Baker in in 1979 right what did you know about Buddy I mean Buddy had been around forever but Baker's father been around forever so you knew Buddy but had you worked for a buddy or with buddy?

No, and that's the first time I never had any of deal with Buddy at all. I just remember he loved Dayton and Talladega, and so did I. Yeah. He would mash the gas. He would do that. Yeah. He was unreal at those two racetracks. Yeah.

So, um, you all end up, uh, working together in your building the motors, but eventually Reneer wants to make you the crew chief. Yeah, I did really. I never wanted to be, wasn't interested in being a crew chief, but he come to me and he said, you're going to be the engine building,

you're going to be the cruise chief, general manager, and you got the whole nine yards. Why didn't you want to be the crew chief? Well, the biggest reason I didn't have to argue with myself, how much tape to put on the front of it. You know, the mechanics would always want to put too much on there and ruin the engine, run it hot. And then the too low gears,

they'd want to put gears in it that didn't work. Yeah. So, you know, I said, well, I won't have to argue with myself. Yeah. What about Shocks and Springs? I asked you that because I've always thought of you as one of the most prolific engine builders in the industry. You're in the Hall of Fame because of all of the success that you had building engines. And not a lot of people, myself included, connect you to crew chiefing, solely crew chiefing. You got, you know, as a crew chief, you're responsible for everything. Right. Especially back in those days, you were the guy that was going to choose the springs, the shocks, the sway bar, the track bar, all those things, the wedge and nose weight. How did you develop the ability to not only put an amazing engine in that car,

but also get that thing to handle the corner? Well, it'd come easy. But let me explain. When I worked at home with Moody and be on the race car, and you know, with the guys, they did this two of them and I'd be the third one, I took care of the engine, but I changed springs and sway bars and didn't do, pull strings down in cars, just like the rest of them did. You know, there's only so much you can do an engine, so there's all that other work to do.

And I was well aware of everything that was going on. I didn't, you know, setting up a race car, that wasn't a problem with me to set it up. Yeah. So that knowledge started from back in the 60s, you know, when you, you, you, you, you, just had developed because, to your point, you know, when you're going to the racetrack and working on a pit crew and so forth and you're at the racetrack, you know, getting the car through practice and getting it through the week. I mean, practice in the late 70s started on Tuesday.

And a lot of these races, it did. They'd open the track up. The track would be green from eight to five, run as long as you won't. That makes, I mean, that blows people's minds today to think that, you know, you'd be over at Sharmer Speedway for the, you know, for the Sunday or. race practicing all day on Wednesday and Thursday and just track could be open running lapses as many as you wanted to. So you developed a mind for setting the car up, making the car handle.

Oh, yeah. And so you didn't want to be the crew Jeep, but you eventually are nab to do that with Harry Reneer and the gray ghost in 1979. Did you find that your concerns about taking that role as the crew chief? Did you find that to be more comfortable than you thought? No, whenever Harry came to him and he said, you're going to have it all. And I thought for me, I don't want nothing. That's like I said to me and go.

I said, well, I won't have to argue myself. Yeah, I'll do it. So, you know, at the end of the 79 season, there was only three of us in the race shop. What happened everybody? Well, this one went that way, and the other went that way, and then I let two or three of them go because they had a painting those cars in the shop that those STP cars and all that paint all over everything

and I finally had enough of that what they was doing there with the company products and everything so I released them I got you so anyway there was three of us when the season started for that 80 getting ready for the Daytona 500 yeah and I remember taking that race car and I said well I don't have no body man I got it machinist that's the world's best, James Luter, and Keith Russell, he's my helper. And so I built the engine.

I remember I put it together three different times. I didn't like it. I'd take it apart. And I remember going through the holidays and thinking, I'm the only one that's working, but I know what I'm up against when I get the Daytona. All right. So why did you take them? Why would you ever take a motor apart?

Did I do see something I didn't like? I'd taste the assembly. Then go back again. What the rings didn't have the wrong. rings. You know, it's just, I can't remember exactly what it was. Help me understand. Like sometimes I've heard you talk about a motor not sealing.

That's right. What is that? Well, that's whenever you're compression of the sealed and not blowing by the rings. Yep. That's some sealing. And there was a combination there of, you know, of Dike, we had what we call them, which I like using. And if you could get to seal them, you certainly didn't pick up some horse power.

Really? So there's a lot of little things you had to work on, but you had to get it to work to make horsepower you're looking for. Yeah. And y'all would basically take the head, the stock head, and completely rebuild it, you know. Oh, yeah. Gawley. I mean, the stuff that y'all are able to do, to, you know, within the rulebook,

to manipulate those heads to create the compression and head of everything, timing like you wanted it, is fascinating as hell. You don't have that creativity anymore. Well, the big thing, you know, another thing you talk about heads over there and take manifold and then there was the carburetor which was a major deal a lot of people didn't like massac carburetors but I love messing carburetor yeah and they was a lot like

Canadian and with Bobby else and when them raises and what was here that 70, 809 or anyway with Bobby else in that Coke car you know he was just in 71 yeah thank you there you go that was so much of that was in the carburetor

I'd heard that story so they you know they put a plate on the car a restricted plate, and they didn't make a rule on the minimum size of the carburetor. And you basically learned to be able to channel that carburetor to flow better for that spacer plate. Because without it, basically, all that air and fuel is smashing into that carburetor spaceer plate. Reversion. And turn it around, right? Oh, yeah.

And so you figured out a way on a flow bench to get that carburetor, work as well as if that plate wasn't even there. I found that the flow angle was 6 to 8 degrees. And I worked on that and put those sleeves in there and saying the sleeve was micro inch and 116th. And then, you know, it didn't say no minimum. Right. So it was in the rules.

You can make it as small as you want. You can make it. NASCAR never thought anybody would make it smaller because that would be detrimental to power and speed. That's why I can't understand. Why didn't other people come? up with that. So when you, who see, you know, when anybody, when NASCAR looks at your carburetor,

did they go, hey, okay. Well, somebody, we won both Charlotte races that year. I remember, and I mean, I remember all the races, but anyway, we learned Charlotte. We come from two laps down one in Charlotte with Bobby, and then we go to Rockingham. And that morning, the Gazette was in charge, Bill and Joe. And they come to him and took my carburetor. I said, wait a minute, why are you taking my carbure? We're just taking it.

Somebody told him that's where I was making horseback. So anyway, I called John Holman and told him that they took McCarverner. He said, what am I, is that carbure legal? And another thing, John Homer, the 10 years I worked for him, he put that old big finger in my chest and he said, if you ever get caught cheating, I'll fire you. You're good enough to run, wearing races, race, is I cheating. And I didn't cheat.

Sure. because I didn't want to look over my shoulders. Yeah. And then anyway, they took the carburetor, and he said, well, Holman then said, if they don't give it back to you, bring that thing in the house. So load the car up. Yeah. You're at Rockingham to race.

I go around and they have to get the carburet back, no. So we're pulling it up on the back to Holland. Where are you going home? He said, well, let's talk about it. The talking's done. Give him a carburetor and we're going to the house. And they came in the carburetor back, and I'll never forget we didn't win that race. And that hurts today.

Did you load up and go home? No, we didn't go home because they gave me the carburetor back. I'll say, okay, so you carburetor's back, cars back on the ground, cars in the garage, you go out and you didn't win the race. Nope. Something happened. Yeah, we ended up with the wrong left rear spring in it. I got you.

Okay. Never forget that. Damn. And that bothers you. Oh, yeah. That's one we gave away. Oh, my God. All these years later.

So, let's talk about the 19th. Daytona 500, the Grey Ghost. This is my favorite paint scheme of all time. I've actually ran the Grey Ghost in some throwback races a few times now. I've ran it as many times as they let me. And so I just believe it's a beautiful combination, color combination, good-looking race car. And, of course, it was maybe the fastest car I've ever heard about on a racetrack. dominated. You had to put

Dayglow duct tape on the front or decal on the front just because it would run up on the rest of the competition so fast they couldn't see it coming. They were afraid they don't run over them. Yeah. So what was unique about

that car? What made the Grey Ghost so much better than everyone else out there? I want to say in 1980 the Daytona 500, eight of the top 10 starters had Oldsmobiles. Right.

Everybody had the same parts and pieces. What were you doing to make your car so fast? You know, there's a lot of things I've done. I still till to this day, can't understand why they couldn't pick that point just like that carburetor. I mean, that was a simple fix for that carburetor. Yep.

But anyway, we're at the shop and I'm thinking, what am I going to do to get that car? You know, we've got to go to Daytona. We've got to be the best. and I took it I didn't have no body man so I took it to the guy that used to work at home and Moody and I put a long template on it

and that's another trick I had and nobody picked up on that long template was where the cow pressure was at. And I told him, I said that long template has got to fit like a glove and then I'd pull strings down the side of it and this is what I want. I don't want no big bubbles on the fenders

and all that. You wanted to, so the front fenders, they would roll and beat those things out with a ball peen hammer and a body hammer and make these big bubbles to be able to have clearance. But that was detrimental to drag and all of the other things that you're trying to fight. You know, that's the worst thing you could do. Yeah, that would slow the car down. So you're taking all of that out.

Everybody else is bringing that to the racetrack thinking they're doing the right thing, right? So they don't want no tire rubs. They got the clearance. But you're streamlining the side of your car. When you look at pictures of this car at Daytona, at Taledega, in 1979, 1980, you can see how much straighter and flatter the top,

you know, the 12 o'clock on your right front fender or your left front fender, how much flatter and smoother it is than a lot of the other cars you're competing against. But I know going back and forth at lunchtime, I'd go over and check on it, and I'd pull a strings down there. It'd say, not one of one, cut it off. And I wore them out working on that race car. I won it one way and not a row over the way.

So finally I got the thing. And I took it the shop, then we assembled it and put it together. And two days later, I get a bill. $10,000 bill fed car. I'm still mad at myself for paying it. But anyway, I said, well, that'll get me fired. So we go to Daytona and went a load the old race car and she was fast. And like you say, they were surpassed it's running up on people.

And they wanted to paint the front of the dayload and quit scurrected. hearing everybody. Yeah. But I remember it was the blackest black I could come up with and that and the silver on it was a 66 Corvette and then we put the stripes down the side of the orange and yellow and red. And that really set it off. Those mobile people took a fit over that car.

Why? It doesn't see nothing like it looked at it. They liked it. But anyway, anyway, I'll never forget the car was very fast during practice and all. and Sunday morning before the 500, Dick Beatty was in charge of the garage, and he pays me to the office. What have I done now?

Because Bill Frantz, I'd come in of a day of a morning, he'd come over to me and he'd say, whatever, you're stinking up the show. I said, Billy, I'm not doing anything wrong. I could tell every night they had to cover off that race car. That's what I wanted to ask you. You say in a lot of interviews that you put the cover on the car specific way, and you could tell the next morning,

Oh, yeah. We'd mark it. So how were you marking it? Well, it's different ways. Yeah. But you knew NASCAR was looking at your car. Oh, yeah. And at night, when y'all leave the garage and garage clothes, you go back to hotel, you knew NASCAR was taking a look.

Oh, yeah. But that's okay. Yeah. That was probably common back then, not a big deal? Well, I think it was. Yeah, I mean, as long as you eat cheating, you got nothing to worry about, right? Right. That's it.

I wasn't done nothing wrong. But anyway, Dick Mayn call in, and they'd run everybody out of the little garage his inn. He said, sit down over, I want to tell you something. He said, ain't nobody here wants to run against that race car today. I said, Dick, there's nothing wrong with that race car. It's illegal as they come in. He said, yeah, it's illegal. I wish everybody got through inspection where you can just see how legally want.

No, I don't want them to see, you know, because they're pulling the front ends down, and that's killing the cow pressure. If you put it back up there and then when it comes back on the wheel, the cow pressure is up. It's unbelievable how much you could get out. And I remember having 80s square jets in that carburetor, which is pretty unusual. But all eight spark plugs look the same in that car.

So people were pulling the noses down. It just killed. And I remember watching some of them go through inspection, they'd push on the template and everything to try to get it. You know, it's a two-inch block I think they had to end up clear. Yeah. But then that one, that one needs to help it laid right on top of it. So when, so the cow pressure is, you know, you, you mentioned a cow pressure.

And when the bud guys were really successful with the bud car, we won all those races at Daytona and Talladega with myself and Michael, we, we, the speed was getting a, everything into the carburetor and through the intake is good as fast as possible, right? Putting as much air in air and fuel air in there as you can. And that starts in the cow, all right? And so the shape of the cow and how the cow interacts with the airbox and then how the air box allows. How can you make that air convenient as possible to get into that carburetor? So we had a single individual that would come to our tests

that worked on nothing but cows. All winter, he built cows, cow after cow after cow. And we'd go to Daytona in 2002, 2003, and go through 15 cows during three days of testing. You needed it every day because you were going to try everything you could. You had 15 different cows, and then each of those cows would have three or four different types of guts. You know, and so, you know, and that's where you found the cow that was going to lead the best, the cow that was going to run the best in the draft, and then how did you take the best of those two worlds

and merge them together for the best cow you could possibly have. And so that's honestly one of the biggest secrets, I think, that gave us a bunch of success. And you picked up on that way back in 1980, or I'm sure before that even, Oh, yeah, before that. Yeah, that was something. See, at home on me, we were making those, stamping out those hair cleaners. Yeah. And they were two different ones of them.

And I was in the middle of working on them and perfecting them. And I had a jump on everybody as far as those cow pieces. Yeah. So what was, so outside of trying to get the nose down, you know, if you help, so you're telling me keeping the hood flat. Is that right? Yeah, you only raise it up as much as you can at the temperature of the latch. Yeah.

And then when you raise it up, you know, that lets more cow pressure go in. Okay. You know, here's big, how much it does you help? Yeah. And so just, you know, the one thing, though, this, the one thing when I think about the 1980-day total 500 is that I think about 79. You had the same car, you had the same speed in 79. and they had that rain delay that hurt a lot of guys.

Fowled some plugs, Daryl's car had some issues all day long, but y'all end up breaking 40-some laps into the Daytona 500, and everybody said that the gray ghost was the strongest car back in 79. I remember buddy getting out and being so dejected, so disappointed. And so when he's out there racing, that car during the 1980 Daytona 500.

How much pressure was on you or how much, how nervous were you? You talked about being nervous in that 1979 Daytona 500 about that 200 motor staying together. What was the pressure like for you as you're getting toward the end of that Daytona 500 in 1980?

Everything's gone right. You've won everything. The car is second to none. There's not anything close to it in speed and Baker's out there leading the race and in command. What were your nerves coming down to the finish? Well, it came down, we needed one can of gas, and I needed to get it full because it took, like, you know,

so many seconds to dump a can of gas, and I knew how long it took, like it took six to seven seconds to dump a can. And I knew buddy to have zero patience, and he had been told me, he said, I've been trying to win this race for 19 years, and I haven't won it yet. and Bobby Allison drafting us and with Budmore Ford so we come down and I told him

I need to get a can of gas in there buddy waved on me and so when he come in Buck we answer the gas man he hooked up immediately actually before the car start best I remember I put my arm in the windshield and get a hold with top of his uniform like I'm on

to hold him yeah and hopefully he will listen and not go but I got the bike 2004 and I can hear him railed the engine up and he's going to dump the clutch on it well he did and buck began to stay to it and come flying down by me and anyway we go back on the racetrack and buck said well i think i got most of it and chris connemack and i was trying to interview me we'll find out what happened if we're going to make it yeah so when he come on the racetrack we had a six-second lead on bobby alson and then he stretched it out six seven eight seconds and i'd say buddy you know

you're running away faster than you need to. And he said, come on a radio and he says, I can't hear you. And he just helped that thing. I know. So he comes down there and the caution come out the last lap of the race

and he didn't even pay no attention to that caution. Damn. Stayed through all up. He came down there and won the race. But it was one of the greatest wins, you know, I ever had risk. Because of what went into it that winter and all I went through.

And then we get in Victor Lane. and Harry Reneer was staying there beside me, and I had never told him about that bill. Yeah. And one of the guys walked up to me and said, well, you just competed the fastest 500 mile ever, 188 point whatever it was. Yep.

And it said, and he's won the most money, $103,000. I said, no, Harry, you've won 93, you owe 10 fat race car. I know this was probably not a big deal back then, but you knew in 1980 that the downsized cars were coming. Well, we take that same car to Talladega, and he'd come down to the end of race again, and your dad were drafting on us. And my tire man, he says,

you've got to change four. I said, I don't want to change, but I mean, we got in a scramble about that. And finally I give in, because I figure if I don't change four and something goes wrong, it's my fault. So I call a four-tire stop. Earnhardt, your dad, come in and changes too.

Well, he's going in, turn. one and we're coming out of turn four. Long way, 20-some seconds back. And there was only 20-some laps to go. Yeah. And he runs him down and the crowd gets into it that day. I don't think he's pulling

a few dad more than us. They just want to see a race. And he come down then and I thought Earnhardt was going to wreck him in the dog later. He ain't going to let him win this race if he can have it. So anyway, we ended up winning the race. And And we went through Victor Lane, and I'll never forget, we come in the garage, and your dad

had those mobilities like we did, and they had them sitting there, so we pulled our car in him beside it. And the inspector said, I forget who now was, it wasn't Dick Beatty, somebody else that's over the garage, said, we're going to find out how you're lowering that race car. I'm going to lower the race car. I've heard everything. So anyway, I'm looking at Earnhardt's car there, and Arison, I told him, I said, Ray Hill was in charge.

I told Ray, I said, these cars are identical, right? I said, okay, look at my right front fender. It ain't even burnt the paint off of it. Look at that one. It's an a handheld. Now who's dropping the car? Yeah. He looked at me and looked at it and he never said a word he just left.

Yeah. I remember the year before that, one of the most spectacular crashes in, in, at least in that era, the late 70s, the gray ghost got, gets lose through the tri-oval leading the race at Talladega. And it was a spectacular wreck sliding down the front straight away. Yeah, backwards. Yes. Did y'all lose the right rear tire in that deal? No, it was a trick rear-in.

It got put in the car. What? So, would the locker come apart in it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I do that, but I remember that's what happened to it. Yeah. So a trick rear-in broke?

I don't know if it broke, but he didn't do what he was supposed to this. He's a handful. Yeah. I remember he turned to slap around, and he's looking at all the field coming right at him. And when he goes off the pavement, off the grass, and the exhaust was shoveled all that dirt, come up in and packed it into the intake manifold, I remember. Oh, no. They destroyed the race car.

So you had to rebuild that one. Yep. But I wanted, you know, I mentioned it a second ago, y'all had to downsize cars in 81. You're going to go to the notchback, small, you know, Buicks and Pontiacs and all that stuff. So the big giant tanks, the 442s and all that stuff go away. Right.

You know, what was that transition like? Because I know when the drivers get to Daytona, they were complaining about how the cars handled and all that. There was a big fuss during the clash about, the cars being hard to drive and the drivers were worried. It was a non-issue once a Daytona 500 to come around. But, you know, we have these big shifts in our industry, such as the next-gen car coming around.

This would be comparable. We'd been running these big boats, the 79 Monte Carlo's and big old mercuries and stuff, and we're going to go to the smaller cars. For you, you know, that must have been a big challenging office. season trying to figure out, you know, how to be fast when you went back to Daytona. Well, when we first, you know, we was running nose mobiles, so we ended up getting cheap metal for nosemobiles. When we go to Daytona to test with Bobby, and he's going around practicing, and Harry

Reindeer is standing there beside me. I said, that car won't run a lick. He said, well, it ain't up to speed. And I said, they don't ever get up to speed. Listen to it. It's like a flag flapping in the wind. Yeah. It listed all the noise that's making.

It's working against itself. And it didn't run. So I sent a guy outside to get, you know, a letter on the route of what cars was legal for the year. And he came back and got a Pontiac Grand Prix, Panac Lamontz. I said, what's a Lamontz? So we go to the dealership. We don't have a car, but we can show you a picture of it. There it was a fastback.

That's it. To all the guys to shop, get sheet metal and build out in Pontiac, Lamontz. And we did. And then when we showed up, well, we went through Talladeo, which is a big man. mistake and they called Daytona told us we'd had that at Le Mans and they told us with you went to tell they get a test yes yeah yep and it was they called Daytona and told them how much faster it was it wasn't your advice as they told it right but we get down there at Daytona and unload that thing and and uh all here comes all these guys get them a big town car and go out and bring bill france back in

there see I'm the only ones got on the Pontiac Lamontz down there yep And Bill come over to me, Bill Gassaway and Bill France. And Bill France said, how did you come up with this? I said, well, it's a legal race car. And I showed it to, you know, the media was all around me, and they had already seen him what was going on too. So anyway, and the bulletin is fine by Bill Gassaway. And Bill France looked at that, and he said, you didn't look at that.

I mean, he chewed on him right there for everybody. Really? that you didn't check these cars out before you approved them. So what was their problem? Was the car too small? Well, it was a fastback and nobody didn't want to run against that. The rear windshield. Yeah, yeah.

It was a good car. So anyway, they, Bill, Bill France said, well, have you got another car? And I said, this is all I got, Bill. He said, okay. So we sat there today. They were going to, they were going to, he was going to, he was going to, to make you get another, if you had another car, he's going to make you run the other car. Yeah, and I told him I didn't have another.

But his rulebook said that your car was fine. Legals that could be. Then we just outsmarted him. Anyway, they finally found a car in Georgia. They wasn't one in the state of Florida and brought it down there and made templates out. Well, if we'd have had that template that they made for it and build a race car by it, would have been a lot quicker. It was all in our favor.

So anyway, we got through inspection. and we got a couple laps on the racetrack. That's all we got. So when you brought Pontiac Lamontes to Daytona in 1981 for the Daytona 500, they had to go find a Pontiac and create templates for it. Oh, yeah. A Lamont. They had to go get a stock car, a stock went off to showroom,

and go make templates because they didn't have any. Right. Oh, wow. Yeah, well, they finally brought them in there, and we got through inspection, and we got a couple laps. It didn't qualify. Well, it was worse thing done. we sat on the pole so that irked them

and it handled good in traffic it was a good car yeah so that and this car would uh the car would dominate and then they would start cutting spiroiler yeah they'd take a spoiler away from the same a race we go to as long

then we finally had just give up on it eventually you lost enough spoiler where bobby goes that's enough i'm doing i'm got my hands full in the corner now All right. So I've had this question ever since. You go in 1983, so the Lamaz is parked. Now the Lamas, you know, you had built this car in 81 and brought it to Daytona and had all the success and they start messing with the spoiler. You park your car.

Tim Richmond also runs Lamonts a little bit. Right. And so, and I think one gets sold down the line to J.D. McDuffey. I mean, this, you know, other people get Lamans. It's not the only guy that ever had one. But you, in 83, take Cali Yarborough down to Daytona with that fast. Well, the year before in 82, you know, at Talladega with Benny Parsons, you know, we're the first one.

Yeah, we're the first one to ever break 200 mile there. With the Lamonts then. Yeah. So when did you park the Lamonts? With Benny in the middle of 82 season? Well, at the end of that season, we parked it in. That's when we got a chivalry. You know, and with Cal, we come with Chevroles.

Yeah. And so you bring that Chevrolet that Monte Carlo to Daytona, and Cal goes out there and sets a qualifying lap of 200 plus, but he flips. All right. Very, everybody knows about this. A very famous photo, right? And a really crazy moment. Kail's got the pole, but the car is destroyed.

there's people in the garage and around you telling you to fix it. And I've heard this story before where you're, you know, we know now that you go and get a Lamas out of a, you know, that was a show car. But was the Monte Carlo fixable? Because that thing landed on the roof. I mean, it's bit the hoop bar down. I mean, how much work would it have took to get this thing back on the racetrack? Well, you know, leading up to that. when we flip that thing.

You know, Kale and I never worked together before. We'd been friends since the whole Moody Day is when he was trying to get John Homan and give him a ride. Yep. And we run around together. We'd go to the lake and water ski together and his kids and my kids.

So anyway, we're down there, and like I said, I'd never worked with him. I'd always been Bobby Allison, Buddy Baker, and Kail, you know, all of them got, not Kail. But if I run two or three laps and you always knew what you had. I wasn't used to somebody sandbagging. Yeah.

So 45 flat was 200 mile an hour, and he's out there running, Kelly at 45, 70s and 80s. And I think, what is wrong with this race car? Because the year before, we had first time broke 200 miles in there, and then we wanted to do it at Daytona for the first time.

And so in passing, you know, Saturday afternoon, we qualified on Sunday. And Kel said, the car is okay. it ain't nothing wrong. He said, let me tell you something. He said, I had never been in nothing this fast.

He said, he got enough horsepower down the backstretch. He said, it hits them ripples, and then it spins the tires. But he says, it goes into turn three, and it's like you hold a needle in me trying to thread it. And he's running 45, 70s, and 80s. And I think, you know, what are you going to do, qualify? But anyway, we get ready to qualify, and I put it down at 20 degrees of sport. He might as well throw it away because it's a notchback car.

so he had a lift to start with. And then he can go out there and Kwapa, he bends it down some more. Yeah. So the first lap, yeah. The first lap he run up, 4470 something, and they gave me a tape on it, and I misplaced it, lost it.

But anyway, the second lap, he's going down the backstretch, and in the wind tunnel, they told us that that card run, 203 with a horseback I had in the air endemic city was. So he'd say, that guy, time and it d'ernibals around the train.

He said, you think that's something. He said, three clip now and then we went into turn three you know she actually flew yeah so dick bade had picked me up on pit road and we went up out of the car and it's back on his wheels and that guy was standing up side and said he jumped out of him and just one know they break 200 mile on there and so we're getting the in the field care center keels in there they've got his top of his uniform down checking him out and he looked up at me and he said he's like a whip pup he said well you done everything right but one thing you didn't put the controls in so I could fly it

Yeah. Anyway, well, I come back in the garage, and the first one to get to me is Bill France. He come to me and said, well, now if you'll fix that race car, you can work on it 24 hours a day up until Thursday, and you'll have to start to 125, run a couple laps, and bring it back in, work on it some more. And then, you know, here was Harry Renier's jet sitting out there

and came at farm jet sitting out there, and Shilad got in touch with him, but then said anything you needed from D.C. I'll have it down there in the morning for you. And Kale had me hire three of these guys when he was with Em, C. Anderson. And so they come to him and they said, we ain't going to work on that race car.

Three hours from now, we're going to be a happy hour. We ain't going to work. Going to the bar. Yeah, going to the bar. I said, yeah, okay. So anyway, I was really aggravated with it. And Leonard Wood, I'll never forget, he come to him. And he said, what else?

You're not going to fix that race car? You've been on the pole four years. years in a row with different drivers and different cars and this is a big of your fifted and you've got to fix that race it's actually tears coming out of his eyes he couldn't believe i wouldn't fix that race car and the funniest thing junior johnson walked by it and his friend told me what he said he looked at that car and he said anything go that fast ought to turn over yeah yeah junior what a character he was yeah but we didn't fix it and i've hated that was it fixable Well, I don't know how much it would have took,

but, you know, no matter what we could have fixed it. You know how it is. You could put your mind to it. You could make it work. That would have been insane. But them three boys, I mean, I've always hated that I let them talk me in and not fix that race car. The boys that wanted to go to the bar.

Yeah. So your Pontiac Lamas that you set to the side, and it's a show car, it's over at the Hardee's across the street. Y'all bring it into the garage unload it. Going to make the best of it. Yep, that's all we done. We just qualified to $195. Yep, so it's down a little bit.

But what I was going to say a minute ago, if we'd have been on the pole by 103, 2.03, we'd have been on a pole by 5 mile an hour. The car is on the pole was 198. Damn. So the 195 mile an hour run Was the next lapse the Lamonts would make? Yep. Was that okay?

Was that doable? Well, it was just put it out there and make a lap. That's what happened. But 195 ain't too bad. If that's the case, if that's the case, if you're just like, hey, go out there and run see what it to do. And so you all got to work on it and make it a little faster. Yeah, you know, it was amazing.

Kiel, I mean, he was one of the greatest drivers I ever worked with. He didn't know nothing by a race car. good ones. And he didn't, he didn't care nothing about a race car. He just let me in it. They'd always tell me and say that if you don't want me to use it, don't give it to me. Yeah. And if, and, you know, he was amazing to work with. There was one thing that I wanted to ask you, uh, dating back to the Holman Moody's days. So, you know, we, you built a motor that, uh, Mario Andrade wanted Daytona 500 with. Yeah, they know, there's a story behind that. What happened there?

Go ahead. Well, I wanted to ask you. So, you know, when you look at your accomplishments and the wins, the number of wins, the statistics, all of that is amazing. But it's the individuals, too, that sometimes don't get told in the story. Like when in the Daytona 500 with AJ Foyt. You won it with A.J. Foyt and Mario. Mario, to this day, says, that they held him up on pit road the last stop because they wanted fred's car to win the race

and that he was out there doing he's out there running a great race leading and carrying on and then they had one last pit stop to make and they held him up on pit road a little bit and he had to go back out there and chase fred down and win well to start with you know he's down there like three weeks or something and um mario car was the same as lorenzo's car they both fire lanes. And Mario was going to the Holman and said

Lorenza's got a lot better engine I've got. My engine won't run. And they changed engines and they didn't do it no better. So anyway, Holman come to me and said, you got to build

Mario's engine too. So back to the shop I go, I build the two engines. And I remember driving the tractor trailer down there through the night and got there the next morning. So I went to Mario and told

him his engine number. And then I went and told Lorenzen his engine number because that, you know, always building an engine for Lorenzen, and all he'd all come to me. Well, my none, but... So, anyway, Mario told me this. Four or five years ago, they inducted him in the Southern Motorsports Hall of Fame. And he said, come over you.

I don't tell you the rest of your story. He said, when I went to get that engine, I gave him the number of... They didn't want to give it to me. And they tried every way in the world to give me another engine. But he said, nope, you give me that engine. He said, when I put that engine in that race car, he had picked up 400 RPMs. He said I knew how he covered in. But I don't remember behold him on that last stuff.

I know him, the two of them kept going at it all. And we all, you know, Lorenzo had a real good pit crew. And we could get Lorenzo out way before Mario. He's down to makeshiel pit crew. Right. They wasn't good at all. What did you think about, you know, we look at that moment in our sport today and go, wow, it's pretty badass that Mario Andretti won the Daytona 500.

In that moment back then, was Mario and his, was he the icon that we seemed as today? Was that such a fascinating, incredible moment that he would win the Daytona 500? Or was the fact that maybe AJ had won it, made it normalized in a way? Was it a big, was it pretty crazy and impressive that Mario came and won? Well, I didn't think nothing about it. I knew that he was very capable of doing it, and he had a car to do it with, and he was faster than Lorenzen,

but he was driving that car sideways through the corners. He held on to it all day. Everybody's waiting for him to wreck, I think. So anyway, and we'd get beat him out of the pits, because Wrenz had a real good pit crew. And then he'd run us down and pass us, and that went on. The two of them raced each other all day,

and they finally ended up lapping the field. two of them ended up a lap by themselves. Yeah. But then when I go to go down there and talking to them, and boys on the lens of pet crew said, well, you give them a better engine you give us. You couldn't win for losing. Yeah.

I think it's interesting because I can understand maybe by trying to put myself in the moment that Mario went in the Daytona 500 would make sense, to your point, the car, the driver, everything coming together. But it's one of those things that's actually grown in we're more and more impressed with it

over as time has gone on. That's a rare thing. Because usually things that are incredible, they lose some of that impact over time as we get further removed from from when they happen. But Mario's Daytona 500 win,

that story has grown and grown and value, I think, for the industry over the years. So I wanted to ask you, there's three things that you say are the three most important ingredients to being fast, right? That's horsepower, arrow, and rolling resistance. And I think everybody understands horsepower. power. Everybody attributes you to being an incredible engine builder. Arrow, everybody can understand that. And we've talked about it here, making the side sleeker and different things you can do to improve the cars aerodynamically.

But rolling resistance, you know, talk to me about things that you paid attention to, things that you tried to avoid in improving a car's rolling resistance. Well, you know, the fluids you use. the grease you put in the wheel bearings. You know, there's a lot of things like that. And then the transmission, there's so many things you can do. At one time, you know, we'd take one gear set out of it. Yeah.

Things like that. If you didn't need reverse or first. Well, I wouldn't ever do reverse. Really? Because the guy got in a place. He couldn't get out. He didn't have no reverse. They'd want to do it.

The mechanic said, no, we're not going to risk. What did you take out? Do I? What's gear did you take out? Well, sometimes you can take out third gear. Yeah. It depends on the ratio as you're able to get a hold of. Yeah.

But anything is rolling, you know, rotating mask, you know, if you can down it. And you can cut the ring and pinion down. You can do things like that. Make it lighter. You know, and then at one time we got into real light drive shafts, which would become a, you know, it was kind of a dangerous thing that messed with drive shafts. But we do things like that. There's just so many things that you...

What about pinion angle and things like that? Oh, yeah, that was critical. What was important about the pinion angle? So penning angle to me is very confusing. Like, I don't know shit about pinion angle. I don't know why I want it one way or the other. Well, the one thing about it, you can't line up the transmission and the rear end of the dead because that drive shaft is going to throw itself out.

Okay. It won't stay in there. It needs to have some. It's got to have some. Yes, you've got to have angles. Okay. So, you know, that was critical to get the right angle to it. Gosh, you think your common sense would tell you that everything in a straight line would be best.

Yeah, but he'd throw itself out. I've seen it people do that on the dino. Yeah. Have the drive shaft straight. And it just not worried about. Trying to tell him you can't do that. Yep. It ended up in the toolbox.

Oh, sht. But there's a lot of things doing that, you know, the seals you'd use on the wheelbairns. I mean, they're just small. things that end up you know in time makes a big difference yeah y'all work i mean can you can you is it is it is it is it crazy to you to think back about all of the work that y'all did for speed and and and not just building not just the preparation leading up to getting to the racetrack but man you go to the racetrack you had a practice engine qualifying engine you had a race engine you had different oils to your point you were you qualify with this oil, race with this oil.

All of that work, just to be able to go out there and know, you know, well, I've done everything I could do, right, to make this car as fast as possible. But golly. I mean, I know NASCAR would eventually come in and change all these rules to sort of eliminate all of that effort and say, hey, man, how about we all just run the same motor from the time we get here to the time we go home? How about, you know, we take away a lot of this unnecessary work because you guys were, it's crazy.

You know, I was, I came into the sport just as that stuff was sort of phasing out, the qualifying motors, practice motors, the different oils, weights and everything, everybody was running for different, different applications. I mean, I imagine that felt normal to you, but when you think back at it now, gosh, it just seemed like it was a ton of work. Speed weeks. How many times do you? where you change the motors when you're down

Daytona? Oh, it's several times Speedwick. You know, them drivers always complaining, you know, that and's got a better engine than this one. And he was talking about Mario, well, he became friends when I worked on his 24-hour car. You know, with those G-mark-3s and fours, you know,

and he, talking about him as a person, he was one of the nicest people I ever worked with. What about changing motors during a race? They kind of stopped that in 79. I told France myself, I said, that's the most ridiculous saying, do you realize how many people's getting hurt doing this and burning their hands? Yes.

And how many seconds it take the change engine, then they finally stopped it. Yeah. They got it down to like 12 minutes. Oh, yeah. Well, they practiced it. Yeah. Junior Johnson had it figured out the quickest of anybody. He did.

Bud Moore was complaining that the forwards couldn't change them in less than 30 minutes because you had to take the headers had to come off or couldn't come off or something that you had to pull the car out before you could take the headers off or something. or the motor out before. There was something about the way the Fords were built that slowed down the process of changing the engine in 1979 and they couldn't even compete. Right. But I mean, if you blew a motor in 1979, you changed it during the race.

Oh, yeah. That's crazy. That was double crazy. Yeah. So we talk about creativity. I understand you're a big proponent against cheating. You didn't want to do anything that would get yourself in trouble. But in 1970, there were a ton of cars.

that were running nitrous. Everybody had a bottle. Even dad, when he ran that car for, when he ran that eight car for Ed and degree in Charlotte, there was a bottle on that car. You don't have to tell us you didn't run it. But like back then, take us back, take us into the mind of a mechanic

or take us into the garage area back then in the sport when, you know, you might look, around the garage and go, well, hell, half these cars probably got a bottle hooked up. And some of them that we would later find out left the bottles in there. I mean, like D.K.'s car, the erected Darlington, had a bottle in the old cage that he didn't even know was there because he bought a son of a gun from somebody else and never even thought the bottle would be there even to hook it up. He would probably smart enough to even use it. But the fact that bottles nitrogen kind of had this little spell,

in the 70s where it was just like everybody was trying to do it, trying to conceal it. That must have been fascinating, I guess, as a, you know, as a mechanic and an engine guy back then to have all that going on around you. Well, you know, I remember that area

that that was going on and I was not going to do that. The next thing is, you know, that is as Blake cheating as you can get. Yeah. And, you know, it's just way out and left field and they've got to get caught doing it. I know, and everybody did.

Was it as easy as just hooking a bottle up and mashing a button? Surely you had to change particulars around the jets and things in the motor so that the motor didn't literally, you know, didn't run too, I don't know what it might do. I guess it would probably run it lean, wouldn't it? Well, you know, you'd think it had mixer. You know, I never did bring it in the shop. Sure. I never wanted to mess with. I was afraid I ever messed with it.

I love it. And I wouldn't do it. I never had a hold of it. Not it won't any one time. And I wouldn't do it? I got accused of it, but I never done it. Wouldn't you think you'd have to adjust the motor a lot to make it work? Well, you'd have to, yeah, you got it because that's going to run the cellular temperature up.

You're going to have to put more fuel to it. There's something, I'm assuming. Gotcha. You know. Man, I can't imagine. And then when they put plates When they put plates on the cars Dave Marcus, I think Dave Marcus and his team

No, Dave Marcus' team So there was a year where both AJ and DW got busted for nitrous or something on their cars They sat on the front row at Daytona, 77 or eight. All right. Might have been 77. But the 71 K&K Dodge that Marcus was driving with Hyde, I think, had something in the grill work, duck work that was sealing off the radiator.

So it was basically like kind of taping up his grill. But it was in the radiator. So there was a ton of creativity in the garage. And hell, I don't know, somewhere in here we got, I got a deck lid from Harry Gant's car that was electronic. Spoiler could run up and down. Oh, yeah, they've done all that. Yeah.

You know, I just, I know that you've shared a lot about how you try to do everything the right way, but certainly in the garage you saw some crazy things going on around you. Oh, yeah. With guys trying to make things work. Well, I just spent my time doing it the right way and gain all I could that way. And once they got caught, they was really behind. Yeah, I hear you. Well, I always wondered about that.

I mean, you know, Nitrous, nitrous never made its way back into NASCAR after the late 70s. I remember one time trying to figure out an advantage in my little late model cart, Myrtle Beach, and I was on the phone with a guy about nitrous and daddy walked into the office and heard me talking about it and told me if I ever brought it into his shop, he would never let me drive another lap. Good for him. Yeah, he was pretty upset with me to even think about doing that.

But I want to tell you, man, I've been looking forward to this conversation. conversation with you for a long time. Hall of Famer, well deserved. You've been celebrated. I was studying you over the last several days and even last night. And I know that a lot of people have asked you to come on their show and do their podcast. And that's got to feel great.

I hope it does make you feel great that people want to hear you and talk to you in this time and this age of the sport. seven Daytona 500 wins, three championships, many, many victories as an engine builder, many victories as a crew chief in this sport, 123 pole positions. You got to work, as I mentioned, with some of the most famous drivers in not only NASCAR, but motorsports in general. So, you know, when you look back over your career, you know, what is your, what are the emotions at 87 years old.

You know, what are the feelings? Well, literally, all I can say is I gave it all I had. I didn't keep nothing in reserve, you know, and I tried to do it as honest I could. Thanks to John Holman teaching me that, which I didn't want to cheat anyway, but I didn't. And that's why you're talking about nitres. I stayed away from that.

I didn't want to do that. But, you know, I tried to do it right, and I thank the Lord for the ability he gave me. Yeah. Well, you're a hell of an engine builder and a hell of a mechanic. A lot of people that we talk to say so many kind of things about you and think the world of you and you got a lot of fans here in this studio and at Dirty Mo Media.

We're just thankful to have you here today. Thank you, Waddell. Thank you so much for having me, Little Lee. Thank you. Wadill Wilson on the Dellsian Download. Man, it's a great conversation to be able to talk to Wadell today. I got to say, well, he told me once we got wrapped up here, a lot of times, this is interesting, this happens all the time, people get up from this table, and we continue to talk, right?

And they'll say things that you wish were said at the table. And Waddell told me, he's like, when he went to work at Holman Moody, they paid him a dollar 50 an hour. And when he, when him and his wife were having kids and building their family, somebody thought he should get a raise so they gave him a nickel. Nickel and our raise. Pretty incredible to think back how things were and it was just a different time. But Waddell has done a lot of things here recently. A lot of shows, a lot of podcasts, Hall of Famer, he's well respected.

You're going to hear some of these same stories. And maybe you already have if you listen to Stapleton's Pod or anybody else. else but we needed to get him in here and celebrate him one of the greatest engine builders that sports ever known and a super easy guy to talk to and still in amazing shape and mentally and physically at 87 years old i hope we're all that fortunate to be as sharp as he is um so just just great to talk to him check the box for me personally here um he's going on our list for for a long time. So hope you all enjoyed it.

I've got to say thanks again to Ally. Ally has been a great supporter of the Dale Jr. Download and Dirty Mo Media here. They're always doing it right with Ally bringing us this guest segment, no matter what you're saving for, whether it's race tickets. Maybe you're wanting to buy a car or it's a new home you're after. We're all better with an ally. Let's get to the White Flag.

All right, it's time for the White Flag. Check out our Dirty Air Show from yesterday, recapping that incredible race from Atlanta. already. Our Tuesday show is always a fun listen. I enjoy coming in here and telling that Tuesday show stories because we get to talk about the race and then all the things going on in our life. It's completely different from the guest segment that we're going to do on Wednesdays. Of course, the new spinoff podcast for the Dale Jr. Download. DJD. Reloaded. I had a blast coming in there and crashing the show last week. You never know what's going to

happen on that show. We always want to hear. from the fans as well, so bring the best reactions and opinions to the DJD reloaded. It's 704-584-9703. Make sure you voice your opinion. Call us up. You'll hear yourself. If you give us a good opinion, you might hear yourself on the DJD reloaded every Thursday. I'm going to be off next week for spring break, taking the kids to the beach. Going to leave you in great hands, though.

Guess what? ESPN's Ryan McGee is going to be stepping in. For our Tuesday Dirty Air Show, man, I've tried and tried to get a guest host on the Dale Jr. Download. It is finally happening. I've been looking forward to this. And Ryan McGee, are you kidding me? Man, we got lucky there. I'm looking forward to hearing his thoughts on everything going on in the sport, and hopefully you enjoy that.

And then for the Wednesday show, Big Demand for the business of motorsports. This week's guest for Kelly's business of motorsports is CEO of World Racing Group, Brian Carter. This group runs the World Outlaws. What does that, you know, mean for the World Outlaws to have high limits coming on to the scene? Can't wait to hear what he has to say. Kelly's super pumped, especially because Kelly, she's grooming her very own world outlaws sprint car racer. I don't know, high limits, maybe both. Who knows?

Wyatt Miller, her son is, he's in that dirt, sin. You know, he's in, he's, he's on the path. He's trying to get there. So this is very, uh, interesting for Kelly. Can't wait to hear how that show goes. So that should be a lot of fun. Next week, I'll be tuning in. Maybe I'll call in.

I don't know. Maybe I'll call in from my speed break and see what's going on. We'll see y'all. Have a great one. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.