The Dale Jr. Download - 535 - Casey Atwood: The Career I Don't Talk About

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with a driver from NASCAR’s past, Tennessee’s own Casey Atwood. After rapidly making a name for himself in the late model stock division at Nashville Fairgrounds, Atwood made a big splash in the NASCAR Xfinity Series, becoming one of the youngest winners in history. Casey explains that while his family grew up watching racing, he would become the first driver in his lineage after convincing his father to buy him a go-kart. The father-son team would start out at the Nashville Fairgrounds before entering the World Karting Association ranks and finding championship success.Upon graduating from the karting world, Casey entered into the four-cylinder ranks at Highland Rim Speedway in Greenbrier, TN. It was there he forged a friendship with Bobby Hamilton, a relationship that would help pave his entryway into NASCAR. A successful season in late model stock competition propelled his name into the NASCAR garage, and after turning heads in 1999 by becoming the youngest winner in Xfinity Series history at the time, Casey was sure he would have a spot in the sport for many years to come. Unfortunately though, a career gamble on a new team and a year of rookie struggles in the Cup Series would leave Casey Atwood in the “what could have been” category of NASCAR’s past drivers.21+ and present in NC. First online real money wager only. $10 Deposit req. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com/sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 877-718-5543 or visit morethanagame.nc.gov Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download. It's Wednesday, our ally guest segment here in the Bojangles studio. And Casey Atwood is our guest. It's been a long time, man. I have not heard from this guy in forever. I don't think anybody has. Let's see what he's been up to. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. Hey, everybody, Dale Jr., Dale Jr., back again. Hey, everybody's Dale Jr. back, back, back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download. Boog James Studio Hey everybody's Casey Atwood

How often do you get asked about your Cup career? I don't do You don't do? I don't do interviews I don't have to talk about it now So I don't Yeah

And so why'd you come here to do this? Because it was you So we are in the Bo Jangle studio And don't forget Now through May 5th Two free bird dogs. Go to bowjangles.com. Or you can go on the app

at participating stores using the promo code Dale Jr., D-A-L-E-J-R. And you get two free bird dogs. I mean, that's a free meal. Let's do that. All right, that sounds like an easy yes. Get them while they're hot.

On the Bojangles app or online. Talked about our guest, Casey Atwood. we were digging trying to find some information on this guy and what he's been doing and there's not a bunch out there there just isn't he's been laying in the weeds off the radar we're going to find out why so ally we got to thank them for bringing the guest segment every week they have been so supportive of this show everything in NASCAR they are involved we thank Ally for everything they

do here at Dirty Moe Media and across the board for NASCAR. Let's see what Casey Atwood has been doing since he has been away from NASCAR racing. Let's get him in the room. Long time. You got that man. How are you? Yeah, you too. What's CA 17? Your hat? I run a late model and a friend of mine made, we've made this logo and she made me some hats. So you're still racing? A little bit, yeah. I heard about that. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. When I, when you got called to come on the show, I thought it would be a little tougher to get you here because you're still away out there in Nashville. Yeah. What's you going to do while you're in town? Nothing. I'm going heading back right after this. How'd you get here? I drove up.

No shit. Yeah. Damn, dude. Who'd you bring with you? Nobody. You drove all the way here. Yeah. Well, thank you. No problem. How's your family? Everybody's good. I have a, 18 year old girl that's graduating this year and a 16 year old. No kidding. Yeah. You still married? Yeah. Married to your high school sweetheart. Yep. Or your childhood sweetheart. Yep. How close do you live to your hometown where you were born? Oh, still right there. Still right there, yeah. No kidding. Yeah, about, I don't know, 20 minutes from the track down there. Really? No kidding. Well, listen, man, um, Let's dive into it.

You were born back in 1980. Seems like you're younger than that, like born, you know, later. But 80s, I'm born in 74. Yeah. So, I mean, you, you know, when you come into the series, I felt like I was much older than you, but it ain't but six years. Yeah, I was, my first race was 98. So I was 17.

Yeah. So when you get, you know, you weren't born into a racing family. and how did you learn about racing? So I always watched racing on Sundays, and we had a group of people that we kind of watched the races with, and we rode yard carts. They had like a little track in the backyard, and we'd go over there and watch the race,

and then we'd go out and play around with the little yard carts. But nobody ever raced in my family. How it happened was they had a buddy that got a racing, cart and uh we went and watched him one time and i was like dad i got to have one yeah and he got me one and we played around in parking lots for a while like school parking lots just driving around and and then uh eventually let me race so when you first get behind the wheel i mean did it come naturally or yeah it did we uh we raced there locally at the fairer The playgrounds on the, you know, they had the little track at the paragraph.

A quarter mile in the infield. And they had the X. Yeah. They used to have the. Figure eight races. Figure eight races. And they'd run a circane through there. And then I started there and then we started running WK series, traveling, running road courses.

Road courses. Yeah. Really? Yeah. So how did that go? I mean, is that you and your dad? Yeah. It was just me and my dad traveling.

And what did you, I mean, who knew anything about the, cart right tire treatment setting up the car uh just you and him handled it and learned as you went yeah pretty much uh he was good he was pretty good at tires and setting up the cart and he got it pretty quick and uh we were competitive right out right out gate um how did you do in wkha how competitive were you well we won a couple championships we yeah back then it was uh purple plate we had you know i was you know 10 or 11 12 so we was run restrictor plates and the next class up was gold plate. We won a couple of championships.

Yeah. And so how do you, so eventually you're going to get into, you know, four cylinders, who builds that car, whose car is that? We bought one first from a guy. It was a pinto. Yeah. Four cylinder pinto. And then my dad had one built.

and it was a lot of most of people ran mustangs the four cylinder mustangs and he built uh i think it was like a baretta yeah with an opal motor and uh and uh that's when we met i didn't race for a while we just we'd go for the open practices and i just practiced a lot messing with it that's when we met bobby at what track highland rim okay where's highland rim at it's like the 30 minutes north of the fairground okay And is it still in business? Yeah. Okay.

And so Bobby Hamilton's just hanging out of there, or what's going on? I was trying to, I knew this was coming up, and I was trying, I think we just met him at the track. Yeah. Because he would always. Was Hamilton, was his son racing there? Yes. So that's probably why he was there? Yeah, he was always at the track.

Little Bobby drove the four-sunder class also at the time. I got you. And I think we just met him there because I was always there testing. and just before you know it, our cars were at his shop. Like, we kept them there at his shop in Mount Juliet, and he helped us every since. So what's his shop like back then? He's got a pretty good little long piece of property,

and he's got a shop. It's like an old house with a big garage on the end of it that caught fire or something. And then he had his big shop out back. So he had a house, a shop, and another shop. And we kept ours in that old house that had a shop on the end of it. And then you had the big shop out back. And the big shop's where he run his trucks out of or what?

No, no, this is way before that. Way before that. So little Bobby, Jr. was kind of coming up at the same time. I remember going to Nashville Fairgrounds when you were racing there. And Bobby Jr. was racing there in his car before he got into the Xfinity Series. But Bobby Sr., Bobby Hamilton, Sr., incredible dude. Yeah. And I got a pretty cool little story with him that we told on the show before.

But why did he want to, why do you think that he wanted to help you what was in it for him? Why do you and him, why do you have that connection? What was the basis of that? Nothing was in it for him. I think he just liked me. Maybe he saw something in me. Yeah. But man, he helped a lot.

I mean, he would race on Sunday, and he would be at the track with us on Monday, and he'd be up under that thing, working. Because he could do anything. He could, you know, build cars, build the shocks, build the motors. He could do it all, and he could, hell of a driver, too. So he helped us. He brought me along quicker and helped me help me with the track

and how to drive it. And he was just a big help to me. So you ran Highland Rim in the four-cylinder, and then you moved up to late model stocks and you're 15 years old. Are you still, are you racing late model stocks at Highland Rim? Yeah, so we only ran those four-slander cars not even half a season. And then Bobby was like, hey, I know this guy's got this old late model, and it's not pretty, but it runs pretty good, and we ended up buying it.

Yeah. And we just went to late models immediately. We stopped running the four-solenders. and I ran, I think, 13 races at the end of that year in that late model at Highland Rim, and I think we won seven. Damn! Yeah. And it was the old, it was the old late model with the stock clips.

No shit, yeah, the stock front clip. Yeah, and I remember wrecking that thing in practice one time. And I, like, nosed it in, inside wall. And Bobby found, like, a 69 Camaro front clip somewhere and put it on my car on jack stands. Yep. And we went back out and it was like it never happened. Damn.

Yeah. I remember in 94, the first late model stock car that I drove had a stock front clip on it. And I was looking at that going, how the hell is that going to work? I mean, all the same points is a tube clip, but you're looking at it and you're thinking, I can't, this can't be fast, right?

But I guess, You know, why did you move from Highland Rim to the Fairgrounds? Because when I run into you, you're running to Fairgrounds every week. What happened? What was the transition there about? Oh, we just wanted to go racing there. Was it the prestige of the fairgrounds or the sides of the track? Yeah, we had been going down there for years watching.

I remember watching Jeff Green when he was down there running every week. Yeah. So that's where we wanted to go. So we went to, actually, actually, Actually, me and Bobby bought a car from Townsend at the same time. He bought one and I bought one. So we just kind of moved our, you know, we already was keeping our stuff there, so he was helping us out with that.

So we just made the move. So that's just where we wanted to race. Yep. And when you get to the fairgrounds, I mean, I love that racetrack. Yeah. You know, just an incredible, incredibly cool facility. And for a late model stock car, man, it's fast. Yeah.

You're in the throttle quite a bit. you're still really young. I mean, this is 96 when you go to the fairgrounds. You're probably 15, 16 years old. I think you were 16 when I saw you for the first time there. I mean, you hadn't been racing. I think I was 15 because it was NASCAR sanctioned, and I had to get a fake birth certificate.

So that's what happened? Yeah. How did you do that? That got it somewhere. I don't know. But I remember my fake birthday was January. January something 1980 just so I needed a few more months

to be able to race there That's hilarious Yeah So when you go to fairgrounds You'd been watching races there So I mean you weren't like you walked into the place For the first time with your race car Was like, wow, this is huge

But like I remember going around that place For the first time and just falling in love With it immediately and I think you probably had the same Same experience Yeah And we did a lot of, like I said earlier, we did a lot of tests. And I would take off school on whatever the practice day was. I think it was Thursdays or something.

And we just go make tons of laps. I got tons of laps around there before I raced. It seemed like. Right. I was a little bit more ready than I should have been. You get into the racing there. You got Joe Buford and who was a fellow that drove that 10 car, passed away. Andy Kirby.

Andy Kirby. So you had some really tough competition. I mean, back then they were getting 28, 32 cars a week. And when we would show up, I mean, the fields were huge. Yeah. But you were winning races running good. I mean, your name, your success at the fairgrounds at 15, 16 years old, your reputation was traveling into conversations down here, you know, in the NASCAR work.

and Bobby Hamilton was a big influence on that hey Casey Atwood's this kid he's doing crazy things up here he's a natural right you were getting you were getting that buildup right that we would all you know recognize when you came into the cup series it started in that little blue late model car at the fairgrounds yeah um your car is painted up with the 43 on it SDP colors yeah you're 16 years old so I know you probably don't realize then you're just having fun yeah this is all great looking back on it now um what what do you think about all of that I mean obviously I know you love Bobby Hamilton and the connection and the influence on he had on you was amazing no question um driving the 43 and driving that history that that has that you now understand right the success

you were having at such a young age and the expectation is starting to be placed on you. What are your feelings about all of that today? I don't know that I was really, like you said, I don't think I was thinking about it a whole lot back then. I think the car was painted up like that because of Bobby, and he was helping us. I never really thought anything else was going to.

I thought that was as far as I was going to go. Really? You know, race. I mean, we didn't have the money to go right anywhere else. So I thought I'd just be race in Nashville. playgrounds forever yeah but the rec the car is so recognizable and i think that that that had that had a big influence i think that helped you a lot yeah i may have i never really thought about that at the time well i mean when i show up and i drive into the racetrack and unload my car my eyes immediately go to that yeah your car right

and and then when you run good or and i hear the name and i'm like recognize the name or or some or bobby Hamilton might come over and go, you need to watch that kid, he's good. You know, I mean, those things were big influences on your career. What is your feeling about the fairgrounds today? The track has gone through a lot of changes since then, and we have a lot of conversations in this room about it. And I've been there. I've been downtown in the meetings with the local government.

with Marcus Smith and his team trying to figure out really what the possibilities are around the future of the racetrack. You live there, right? And so you have probably a better understanding of what the real true potential is for the fairgrounds.

And just when I think that it's over and there's not any hope, something happens or there's always sort of this little glimmer of possibility that still exists. or I call Marcus and he'll say, you know, we got a meeting coming up or we got an opportunity to push us further along, and it's not, you know, still alive.

What do you think living up there? I just think the city doesn't want it. And there's just, it's been that way for a long time. They've just going back and forth between the people that live around there. None of them want it there. Too loud. and you know there's a group of racing people of course they everybody's fighting for it but unless something happens with Marcus and the people at Bristol I don't really know what's going to

happen it doesn't look good yeah thought that they had I thought that the track was grandfathered in and protected in a sense in terms of weekly racing right yeah the the fair board allows uh Bob Sargent and folks to come in and there's a schedule, right? A very nice, concise amount of time that people can come there and race, and that was protected. And so it's interesting to me, I guess it's not as ironclad of an agreement as I thought where, you know, there is a true concern over the future of the facility physically. Like it could, you know, if the wrong thing were to happen, it could go away entirely.

Yeah, that's the way I understand it too. It's supposed to be grandfathered in for Saturday Night Race and the fair and stuff like that on that property. But have you been there? How long has it been since you've been there? Probably about 12 months. Yeah, they have a big high-rise behind the track and soccer stadium and just keeps getting closer and closer to that track. Yeah. And I don't know.

I hope that something happens and they can do something with it, but I don't know. You're racing a late model a little bit now. Where do you race? No, I ran a late model from probably 2012 until a few years ago. Why'd you quit? I just had my own car, and I was running just whenever I felt like it. What kind of car was it? It was a...

Well, at first I bought a... Supposed to be a Hamkey car from... So the left-hander. Hamkey. Yeah, but it's offset. Oh, off the. Yeah, three-length offset. Pro-Lake model.

We went to Arkansas and met this guy, me and my buddy, Brandon, bought this car, and got there and didn't really want it because it wasn't what the pictures looked like. Yep. And stuff. But we didn't drove that far, so we bought it and got it back and tore it all the way apart. It had, like, steel interior, like millions of tack whales holding this thing in. So we cut it all out and rebuild this. this thing and I do all the fab on it myself.

I do the interior, the dash, the duck work, and I've never done any of that before. Didn't even know I could do it. Yep. So that was, I liked doing that almost as much as driving. Oh, yeah. I loved it. But that was the car we started with,

and then we had the guys at Day Enterprises in Nashville building me a new chassis. Okay. And it was, I wanted a straight rail truck arm car. I didn't want the three link. Yeah. stuff. I wanted to be more like I was used to. Yeah.

Because I didn't like the way those three-linked cars drove. It was like, at Nashville, I was like, you go in and everything feels normal and then you get in the gas and your hands are straight. It's like rear steering the whole time. I didn't like it. So I had them build me

this truck arm car and it drove the same damn way. So it's something with the left, too much left side weight. We never really figured out how to get that feel. because I want to turn the wheel off the corner. I don't want it to be straight or this way. Right.

But anyway, I would just run that when we had time, and I'm cheap as hell too, so I didn't like spending my own money. Right, right, yeah. So what are you racing these days? Well, I wasn't doing anything the last couple of years, but I just ran the Legend Car Spring Nationals at the fairgrounds last weekend.

How'd that come about? A buddy of mine has three or four cars. Who? His name's Kevin. Actually, Wayne Grubb drives one of his cars. You remember him? Oh, yeah. So Wayne lives in Bowling Green now.

And they've been running together for a few years. On the little track at the fairgrounds. Yeah. I've seen some YouTube videos of Wayne racing that thing and winning. Yeah, he runs good. Yeah. And so they call you up just out of the boot? Yeah.

I'd know them. So I'd go down there and watch them. I got you. We're buddies. They're like, hey, we got one. You'll race. Yeah, he bought a new one. From around here, I think.

And I said, hey, man, don't you come down and run the spring nationals? I was like, how many races was that? The spring nationals? It was three races. I got knocked out of the first one. Got missed the corner. I was on the outside of them, and we jumped tires. They ended up on the big track.

So I just pulled in And then The second race I finished fifth And the third race I finished fifth You try to go to a To a series where those people Do that every week? And they'll whip your ass

Yeah, I get my ass with kicked in the cars tour And I go run in But I'm getting it I'll eventually get it So you're gonna keep messing with it? Yeah, I'm gonna run some more this year What was it like to see? Wayne again?

Hang out with him Oh, it's good We've been friends for a while He actually went to, when he got done racing, he moved to Kentucky and went to work for Brucco. Okay. Where I had raced up before. What's he done for them? I think he was, I think Car Chief.

Okay, shoot. He did all the setups. Damn. I think he stayed back at the shop at first, did all the setups. That's crazy. He's smart as hell. He does some of the best fab work you'll see good at setups. No kidding.

Yeah. So I remember when they were, I remember when him and his brother were racing late model stocks at South Boston and then they would go to Martinsville and run the Big 300 race and their cars were freaking beautiful man and then they get in the Xfinity series and like hit the ground like running top five both of them right in their own stuff

before I think Kevin got in the Brewco car I believe right? Yeah and what did Rain do? Wayne just ran his own his dad stuff. Wayne ran the 83 link belt car as his own car Yeah. That's crazy, man.

I always wondered, you know, I thought both of them boys, you know, I thought Wayne, especially, Kevin got another, Kevin got an opportunity, right? You know, in someone else's car, right? Wayne, I don't think ever got out of his own family equipment. Yeah. I thought he had the talent, right, to do it. Yeah, I think so. And I always kind of wondered what he'd been up to. So, and when I saw that YouTube video, him racing now, I like that.

like seeing that. I like knowing that like you and him and all these guys that I remember that, you know, have moved on, right, got, you know, carried on with their lives and, and settled down. I love that y'all still piddle, you know, or go to a local track or a local short track and still compete. Yeah. Because sometimes, man, it's weird to me, like, guys will quit entirely. Like, how do you stop? Yeah, I don't, yeah, it's like, uh, I don't know how they do that either. Yeah. I mean, I know money's one object, and yes, you would take a year off or a couple years off and not do it.

Yeah, whatever. And then get back into it. But it's always there. It's always there. It's always there if you want to. Yes. I've always wondered, because everybody that sits down here, especially like the older guys, I'm like, so you retired and you just never drove again?

You just quit? You don't want to do it one more time. I mean, you could just go anywhere, right, and race a car somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, so I love that you're still competing. Man, I remember going to the fairgrounds and watching you race and racing with you in the late model stuff. We had a big race there one year, and we recently told this story where there was the All-American 400 or some mess. The big all-pro cars were running, and they had a late model stock race.

with it and my car burnt to the ground and turned three and four i remember yeah we're running we're pretty happy i ran okay the first weirdest thing man gonna make this show about me for a second we go down there jeff green uh helped me and went down there and test one day and we go uh we're never ran there before right so we show up jeff green's practicing for a day we end up running the feature and run side by side across the line with buford uh it and run second. He won the race. And I'm like, holy shit, we're coming back here. Like, we run good.

I'm like, pumped. Like, I race at Myrtle Beach and drive my ass off to run forth. And we came to Nashville and run so good that first race. I was like, we're coming back. And we never ran that good again. And then we showed up with a different car for this race.

And there's a big race. It was a, you know, they had a couple heat races and locked in like the top 20 and all that had 80 cars, I think. Some of the guys I race with at the beach that never traveled were there racing. But anyways, my car burnt to the ground. Bobby Hamilton offered me

some car y'all had been messing with, but it was a Ford. And you ran a Chevrolet bodied car. And this Ford had a spool in the back that nobody ran spools into the late mall stocks, at least we, I don't think it was probably, it might have been a couple cars running into fairgrounds, but most people didn't.

and it had a big 500 carburetor on it so you could run the 350 on your Chevrolet and then Joe Buford and those guys could run that big ass 500. Yeah. And I mean, I'd known those rules. That was a common rule across all the tracks in the southeast for the late mall stocks. But I get in that car and I think a qualified eighth

and running in the race and got up in toward the front when the car broke. The transmission fell out of it. But I could not believe how much fast. that car was. And it was that, I mean, it was, the car was great. And we got lucky by, you know, sticking the right setup underneath it with Bobby and his guys help.

But the carburetor, I could not believe how much an advantage that was. Yeah, that was. And y'all didn't run that car. That was my car. Yeah. It was, yeah. Well, tell me the history. We never raced it.

Why? I don't know. We, uh. You, they, the word I got that day was, y'all messed with it, practiced it, and didn't like it as much as the other car. Yeah. I think we had just got it and we're just kind of just starting to mess with it. That car was an Earl Owens chassis, the same guy that built Buford's car.

Okay. So he built that car. We got it pretty much turnkey except for motor. He built it, hung the body, all that. And I think all we did was test it and never raced it. never did after either. I never raced. No, because Bobby sold it on the pit road at the end of that race.

Sold it for $40,000. Yeah. Turnkey. Well, yeah, just like it sat. Yeah. It needed a transmission. But, uh... Chase Montgomery, I think, bought that car.

Really? After that. What'd he do with it? I don't know. Nothing. Never saw it again. Bobby might have ended back up with that car. I remember at some point he had bought a couple late models and put seats in the right side for some reason.

I don't remember why. He was giving rides. somebody. He bought a couple of late. I think he might have ended up with that car and cut it up, put a seat in the right side or something. That's crazy. I love the history of something like that.

I'm glad to finally know who he even built that car because I ran that car and every once in a while I'll see somebody make a custom die cast of it. There's one, I think, sitting in that booth over there. But, uh, and fans will bring them to us. But I really could not believe how good, how good that car ran and how fast it was. I remember it driving good.

I mean, I don't know why we didn't run it. I don't know if it just wasn't quite as comfortable as the other car. I'll tell you this. The Ford having the 500 carburetor might have been fine at a place like, you know, Myrtle Beach or Highland Rim, but at the fairgrounds, that was an unfair advantage. I'm here to tell you, no wonder Buford was so good. Well, except for all the Chevrolet guys,

took their back carburetor bolts out and sucked a bunch of air so they kind of evened them back out. Is that right? That's funny. Yeah, we'd loosen, we'd have them, everybody did it. I mean, except for y'all.

Y'all might not have done it when y'all came. But there was. I would have if I knew about it. There was hardly any tech. There's never been much tech around there at Nashville. Yeah. We would just loosen the back carburetor bolts up

and suck all the air in. Then they did finally catch on to that, so we just started putting bolts that were too long, and it was bottom out and it was still sucking air. Yeah. But that's how we would kind of even up to the fords. Yeah, okay. What other tricks did you have?

Any other cool tricks? I had 11-inch wheels one time. Damn? That made a bigger difference. Bigger difference in the motor. Really? Yeah. Because it makes the contact patch a little bit bigger.

Yeah. It is, we didn't race it. I got caught after qualifying. How? Was it that visual? that obvious? Not really. Right?

But they never checked them before. Right. And right after qualifying, they come over there and measure my damn wheels. Damn, somebody must have told on you. Yeah, obviously. But, yeah, that made up.

Out of anything we've ever tried, that was probably the biggest difference, feel-wise. It felt like I just handled way better. Wow. Yeah. I bet. I need to try that.

Yeah. I still mess with my late model. I got, I should have did this way sooner, but I was worried about getting my ass kick, so I was real hesitant to go back. But we got this Cars Tour deal now. I'm sure you've been paying attention.

Yeah. And so I get in there and run every once in a while, and they're tough. It's tough. I go to Florence and race non-cars tour races, but, and I love running there. I used to race there in the 90s when I'd come see y'all at the fairgrounds. I was running Florence on Friday nights.

And so it's kind of cool to go back to, and race and I'm glad I'm doing it. I don't know how much longer I can do it and feel like I got a decent shot at a good run. I don't know how old you are when you're too old, but I'm going to keep messing with it. Yeah, it's tough. You go to it,

you go anywhere that people do it all time, and it's just like, man. You're only going to be that good if you do it every week. Yeah. That's the one thing I've learned. Yeah, they just have, you know, way more time with the car. The drivers do it all the time. They're comfortable in them. So the next thing I remember happening for you was getting this opportunity to drive a bush car at the fairgrounds.

You come out there. I mean, it's your track. You know the place really well. It's White 28. Yeah. Who on that car? Larry, Lock on me. It was LAR Motorsports and Dennis Adcock.

Dennis ended up being a truck official after that. And I think he had worked for Ray and Jeff at some point, way back in the 90s. But I actually ran Rockingham first. Okay. How'd that go? Rockingham, I think I qualified 13th in my first ever race at Rockingham. And finished somewhere around, I think 15th or something. But I remember I beat Mark Martin.

And he was in that Wind Dixie car. I think she started right behind me. So that was pretty scary. Yeah. My first race and have him behind me. You go to fairgrounds, you set on the pole. Yeah. You know, and a lot of people took notice.

it is a home track for you, but then you go out there in the race and you ran up front and finished second. I remember I was run third in that race. And for me, at my age, I was a little bit older, six years older than you, and a short track like the fairgrounds

or any short track, we'd go to South Boston and all these places, Hickory was the worst, man. I was going to crash at Hickory. You know, I just didn't have the racecraft for 250 laps or 300 laps or whatever. right? I did not have it. And I was

impressed by how fast you ran and qualifying. What really, I think, was the best thing about it was how you put together an entire race at such a young age. I mean, I think you're still 16 at that point, 16 or 17.

90, yeah, 17. Yeah. And so you're still super young and you didn't know what you didn't know. but you kept the fenders on it, ran clean, and ended up almost winning the race. Coming out of that,

you know, you get done, you get out of car. I know you're young and you really don't realize what you did, but did you have any understanding of what kind of an accomplishment that was? Yeah, yeah, I did.

I didn't know I was going to run that fast in that qualifying. You know, I come in and just everybody swarms the car. Hey, you might win the poll here so and I don't really even know what I'm doing there you know I'm just a kid and I got this opportunity

to run this push car I did okay in my first race and then and we come to the Nashville and it was just I don't know it's incredible to be able to run up front like that and I think we led like over a hundred laps yeah and really had the best car all day

I feel like you know that team wasn't really used to running like that, so we didn't have our pit crew. I'd go back to 13th every time we pit. So I was able to come back up to a second. They actually had a caution at the end of that race, and it ended under caution. Oh.

Yeah, so if they went back to Green, I think I would have had a shot at it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. But that was the race. I feel like that was the race to put you on the map. you know yeah what'd you do next i ran that car that night at a 28 car a few more times that year and uh had some more success i i think we ran good at loudon in that car uh

and then the brucco guys yeah so asked me to drive on were they talking did they come to you quickly right after marshville was it a while after that do you remember are they talking to your dad or you know because i mean you're a kid still yeah they don't talk to me at first. They talked to him at first. It seemed like it was a little, it wasn't right after that race. It was, well, we ran some more races and then, eventually they did come to me and asked me, they had, they were starting on the second car. And they had the sponsor, Castro sponsor.

So I got out of the 28 car after I signed with them and they put me in. the 63 car, Hensley's. Really? For the last six or seven races. How'd that go? Yeah. Well, I had some good runs in that car. Yeah.

I got the pole and homestead in it. Damn. Yeah. Yeah, that was a, that car, back at that time, that car was starting to lose a bit of its dominance. I mean, there was a time when that 63 was Chuck Bound and those guys, that car dominated the series. was almost hard to beat. But I forgot you even got to drive for those guys. That thing would not go in qualifying.

Like I remember Atlanta, I ran Atlanta and Charlotte, and it just wouldn't go, qualifying. But when the race started, that thing got wound up. I think I drove up to the top ten before the first stop in both of those races. And then got the pole at Homestead. but I did, I come off a two on my first lap and smacked a wall and it knocked a little, bent the spoiler, like two inches of spoiler bent. Yeah.

Second lap I got the pole. It wasn't that good, but something with that, something like that spoiler down on it. And I went for that second lap. Lost some drag. But I don't think we ran that well in the race. Yeah. So you go to Bruko with the castor car. So, I mean, one of the coolest-looking sponsors in all of motorsports is Castrol.

Yeah. The colors. John Forrest. It's neat. And so I was pretty envious of that deal. And the way that car looked is a cool little cool-looking race car. But so you get teamed up with those guys at Brucho and end up winning at Milwaukee in 99. Is that your first win?

Yeah. So I broke my first. shoulder blade in practice that day and come back to the racetrack and um who runs second was it jeff green yeah i run third in that race and um i remember how i remember being uh i remember sort of that being a big that was another key moment in your life where you know that you had you'd had this you know really crazy good run at nashville and that 28 car they bring you into you're in this You're in a real deal race team. You know, you're in a real deal ride as a full-time driver with Bruko.

They're a great race team, you know. But they're out-budgeted by some of these people, right? There's a lot of cup drivers in the series coming in and out every week. I mean, there's some strong competition. I looked at Brewco as like a B-plus team, in my opinion. I know that we outsourced them and out-funded them in that AC Elko car. Yeah. And so I thought that was really impressive.

Not only were you able to show that you had what it took to do it, but you lifted that team a little bit, right? You might not have noticed that or recognize that as much, but I felt like they got better, right, as you started to learn your racecraft. What do you remember about that day? I mean, Milwaukee's a pretty historic racetrack. Pretty cool to get your first win there.

What was that like? We were just fast that whole weekend. I think we got the pole that race also and just led most of the race. I think we got back a little bit on our last stop or something, and we had to battle Jeff Green pretty tough there for the win. I was behind him trying everything I could do to get by him there at the end of that race

and ended up touching him a little bit and getting by him. but it was just an incredible feeling. You know, I was, at that point, I thought, you know, I'd won that race. I was 18, and I thought that might have sealed it up that I could have a long career, you know. So I felt the same way. So that's interesting, you said that.

When I was your age or when I first get into the, even get into the Xfinity Series, in my mind, I'm like, what do I got to do to be here forever? Yeah. I didn't really sit there and go, man, I'm going to be a champion. I'm going to win 100 races. My thought was, if I can win one, I think I can have a career here. Yeah, that's how you feel, yeah.

Yeah. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. So you win that race. Man, you were quiet. You know, I mean, you were approachable and but you weren't a, you weren't, like, you know, you had you had LaJoy and you had Bucshot and all those guys and and all of them were they were been aggressive in and out of the car but you were kind of reserved very very measured

in your and how you engaged with the media and so forth is that the way you remember it do you feel like that was did you feel like you know you got to earn your place I was super shy. Why? I don't know. And kind of felt like I didn't belong there, kind of. Like all these guys are a lot older. You didn't have a racing history in your family.

You're sort of this like you kind of couldn't break through the new kid. Yeah. Kind of like, you know, these guys been there along. They're older. They got more experience. I don't belong there. They don't want to talk to me. they don't care about talking to me you know but uh just and it gives i guess it gives off the

wrong impression sometimes like i'm feel like i'm better or something but it wasn't that it was just almost like nervous to be around those guys yeah how did you deal with that just the best i could you know you just become friends friends with the ones you're you meet and you're close to who'd you pick up buddies with i actually knew randy the joy before I even got there. So he was one that I could always go to and was always nice to me and gave me time. Other than him, as a driver,

just my teammates and people on my crew. Who were some of your teammates? Kevin was my teammate in the Bush series, so we became buddies. Other than that, I just kind of stayed to myself. So after 1999 You're in the

Bruko car Before you go to drive for Rays Did you get other opportunities Or anybody else call you? Yeah I met with After Sometime in the middle

In the 99 We're still racing Richard Childress had me over to his shop And And asked me to drive The two AC Delco car Because you were getting out Of the A.C. Delco car

and then he was getting that sponsor. Really? And then he asked me to drive that car, yeah. The car of Harvick would drive? Yeah. Holy crap. And why didn't you do it? I turned it down.

Damn! Because you had the Ray thing happening? No. You didn't want to leave Brucko? Well, I mean, I think it... How do you turn that down? I think more than anything that it freaked me out to be meeting with Richard Childress.

You went to welcome to the shop? Yeah. Yeah, he flew me over there. Holy shit. On a jet, and then he flew me back on the King Air when I didn't take it. Did you go with your dad? Yeah, he went with me. And I don't know why I didn't take it.

I was comfortable where I was. Yeah, yeah. That group that I was with at, Bruko, came with me from the 28 car. Okay. Jason Rackleff was one of them. Damn. Yeah. Okay.

He was on that 28 car. Was he? As a car chief, mechanic. I think he was a tire changer, too. That's wild. Yeah. So Jason Rackleff was on that 28 car from Nashville in 98. All that whole group came with me at Bruko.

And I liked it. I was comfortable with him. We were winning at the time when I got that offer. And I didn't take it. Damn, man. I wonder what your career would have been like had it went in that route. Holy cow

I worked out for them yeah yeah but you never know what might have happened for you yeah um so you end up having some pretty good success in this 27 car

and and I think you know you're like a year and a half maybe a year and a quarter into that deal before you get tab to drive for Ray um so it was quick yeah maybe

a little over a year and a half into that deal right and so uh again and like you're, this kind of reminds me a bit of William Byron, like William, William bounced through like legends, late models, trucks, Exfinity, like his, bam, bam, bam, bam,

he's in the cup series. This is really similar for you. You've raced your first cup race at what age? 2000. 20? So I'd have been 20. Yeah. And so, you know,

I feel like just four years ago, you started in late model racing. and now you're in a cup car or moving into a cup team. That's one of the most anticipated teams to have come along in some time. Ray Everingham's starting up this program. The Dodge stuff and all of that, the red cars.

He's left Hendrick. So you probably had no idea how difficult that was going to be in terms of just getting the cars to be competitive, right? You're thinking, the same thing. I'm probably thinking at the time, while Ray Everingham's going to start a team, they'll be hot right off the ground. They got all kinds of support from Dodd. They're going to hit the ground and be super competitive.

But it was a little bit of, it was more work than that. Wouldn't you say? Yeah. And I didn't want to go to Cup. Why not? I didn't feel like I was ready. Who was pushing you to do it? Did you feel like it was your choice?

Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was a good opportunity to go and learn from Ray with what he had done with Jeff. And when he pitched it to me, he pitched it like, you got a couple years here. You know, we're going to, no pressure. You're going to just bring you along, develop you.

And I'm not really expecting a lot this first year. So I was like, okay, you know, if I get some time and I'm able to develop, and I'm not expected to go out there and win right off the bat, I'll give it a shot. Yeah. And so, is that how it all went down? I mean, do you not feel, you mean, you bring that up because I'm assuming that you felt like that that might have been the intention out of the gate, but then as the season starts rolling on, expectations ramp up, just like going, you know, you tell yourself, man, I'm going to go to

racetrack, I'm going to have fun. I ain't going to pay attention to the lap chart. I ain't going to get competitive. I'm just going to enjoy it. That's the way I approach it these days or I try. But we all get there. We all want to be fast. And so I think maybe at some point early in the season, did

the pressure start to build? Expectations start to build. Hey man, you know, let's strive for more. I expect more out of you. What was the deal? Eventually, yes. I think one thing that happened that started putting pressure on us is Sterling was running good in that 40 car. Okay.

And we wasn't, you know, for a while. And I think that started putting pressure on both of our teams that, hey, obviously this car can run decent because he's doing it. Yep. And we eventually got there. Yeah. But it, you know, it took a little longer than his. How do you think that the 40th team was able to figure it out? I think they were ahead of us on the soft spring, big bar stuff, and arrow.

Yeah. We weren't doing that yet when I first got there. You know, we was running the big spring, small bar. And at that time, Ray had been out of racing since the middle of 99. So he missed the end of 99 and 2009. thousand he wasn't around because he had quit hendrick and they were starting his team so i just think we was behind on that stuff for a minute there and plus i think you know ray's the owner yeah when you're the owner you can't crew chief the car you can't you know they put you know

you had crew chiefs right both cars had crew chiefs and i think when when ray when a guy like ray starts a team you're thinking I think both of us probably are thinking at that point you know his influence he's gonna have mechanical and physical influence on setups and all those things and that's not

reality if he's running the team right he don't have time for that a lot going on he can't sit there and worry about is this right rear spring the one is this one we need to put in there he's not doing that anymore right and so what he had been great at wasn't always going to be there available right to you.

Yeah. And so, you know, and I think that was probably challenging as well for Ray even, right? Because he probably wanted to. Yeah, he wanted to be hands-on. Yeah, he's a car guy. Yes. He wants to be in that, under that car, doing something to it. But he had a lot going on.

And he would, he liked to be on the box during the race. Yeah. He called a lot of my races. back then even though he wasn't the crew chief. He would call a lot of them. But, yeah, he probably didn't have the time to really get into the car like he wanted. Your teammate's Bill Elliott, the guy that's accomplished everything in the sport. What kind of teammate is Bill Elliott?

He's good. He was always really nice to me. I got along with him great. And, you know, we both kind of struggling along there at first. And we both kind of picked it up at the same time. at some point in that season, I think it was like right before Indy, NASCAR gave us some kickout on the nose.

I guess they had done some wind tunnel testing, and they gave us some kick out on the nose, and we both go, I think we might have qualified one and two at Indy. And we were leading one and two for the first fuel stop. And we're finally, you know, is like finally we're getting it. Yeah. You know, we're both running better.

And then I think we go back a little bit after the first stop. And I'm right behind Dale Jarrett trying to come back up through there to get to Bill, because I think he's still up there. And I'm right behind him right on his ass coming up off of one of those turns, and he scrapes the wall and I hit him. And it busts my radiator. It knocks me out of the M-Race. But, yeah, we both, he was really helpful with driving the car.

And we both kind of came on really strong there at the end of that season together and started running good. Yeah, I think I remember that. You started to make ground and create momentum. Bill's doing really well in his car as well. I've got to ask you, you know, know, having been tabbed, having been tabbed to drive for Ray Everingham for his new team and Ray's history with Jeff Gordon and what he was able to do with Jeff, did you hear the comparisons or, you know, did you feel this sort of pressure that people

who were looking at you to be like that next Jeff Gordon? Because that was true. That was really what was happening. Yeah. You know, whether you were, whether that was affecting you, Personally or not, expectations outside expectations can bother you. And we both probably experienced that at some degree. And in that moment, you know, everybody thought that you, Ray was the master.

And he was, you know, he was, he was this, he was this expert. He was picking this guy that he thought would be the Jeff Gordon for his team. Right. Did you have that pressure? Yeah. You know, they told you, you mentioned that they told you at the start of the year. No worries. Just get in there and get comfortable.

We don't have high expectations. Let this play out. Yeah. Well, he would, he would, I remember when I first met him, when he met with him and he asked me to drive for him. That was like when he told me about, you know, you got to, it was a three-year deal. He's like, I don't expect you to go out there and win. Yeah. for a couple years.

And I remember him mentioned, you know, Jeff didn't really come on to his third year. Right. And, you know, that's when he really got it. So I think that's where he was putting that timeline on me. Right. As, you know, by that third year, you need to be getting it. Did you feel like the pressure changed in the first year or what happened? I didn't feel anything.

Everything was going fine. You know, we were learning, we were getting better. And then it happened just like that. Like what? After... Homestead? No, after Talladega. The first year?

Yeah, he said... After Talladega, he said, taking you out. At the end of the year? Yeah. So, do you get a phone call, or... Like, how'd that happen? He calls my dad and tells me to be at the shop. Well, I'd run Talladega, and I came back with the team,

and then I was told to come to the shop that Monday morning after Talladega. And you, y'all go in office with Ray? I go by myself. By yourself? Yeah. And what do you say? Just taking you out. That's about all I remember.

Damn. Yeah. Do you remember leaving? Yeah. Do you remember getting in your car and driving out of there? Yeah. What did you feel? Devastated.

Yeah. Everything had always came easy. I won quick and everything. Yeah. All the way up. Even almost in cup eventually at the end of that year. Yeah. So I didn't know what was going to happen, you know.

Right. I never experienced it before. So you're in North Carolina and you're far from home and now you're, this is like the first rejection you've probably ever had in your life? Yeah. Yeah. So, and you've got a bunch of months to figure, you know, you got a lot of time to, you still got the rest of the year.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, he says, you know, he's keeping me, he's letting me finish the year, but I'm out after that. Do you tell you what you were going to do? No. So you left, and do you remember? remember much about the next several weeks about like learning what your future was or trying to figure that out or what opportunities there might have been because I mean your your stock's

still pretty good you know at that point yeah I think we go to homestead and test right after he told me I think we test that week because Phoenix is coming up yeah we test homestead and at the last few minutes of the practice we finally throw the soft spring big bar stuff in and I pick up like three quarters of a second and we go to then we go to Phoenix and I'm like hiding in the trailer you know I don't want to come out and talk because I just got let go

is it public knowledge do you think or are you just anymore I don't remember if it is written until they until it might have I don't know it might have done it later when they announced. Is your team aware? Yeah. Your crew chief aware? Yeah. Yeah, I told him. He might already knew, but I told him. But I don't remember if it was public or not. And you're still 20, 21 years old? Yeah. And by yourself, pretty much. Pretty much, yeah. Where's your dad? Oh, he's probably there. He's probably around you.

How do you help you navigate that? Uh, he wasn't happy. He was probably, he was probably more mad than I was. Yeah. But, uh, my point, by the that Homestead test story. We race tell you a guy. I get let go. We go test Homestead, put the setup in there I really liked, and we go to Phoenix and get set on the pole. Yeah. And we're leading that thing by four or five seconds

and end up cutting a tire and going a lap down and coming back to 14th. So it's like I get let go and then I start running good. They're figuring it out. And I start running good. It's like, damn. Y'all went to Homestead at the end of the year and nearly won. Yeah.

Bill and you both had really, really fast race cars. Yeah, so we go, same deal. We tested there. We finally getting this soft spring deal figured out. I really like it. And we, he has this plan that he's good at working the race out in his head before it ever happens. Ray is. So he says, we're going to take two tires at the end of this race.

And so we put two tires on it in the last practice. I've never done that before. We put right sides on it and practice to see what it would do so we know what adjustment to make at the end of that race the next day. So we do it. It plays out perfect. I come out leading and I take off. And we have like five second lead,

15 to go like I'm I'm winning they're not catching me I'm winning and then a caution comes out and uh bill ends up uh driving up close to me up off of going into three and gets me wiggles me yeah gets by me and then his left front tire or something you know let go on the last lap right or his did i think so right or did he win that race he bill won he won't i'm thinking about a different the next year homestead i think yeah he yeah he he wiggles me he he he He didn't touch me, but... Yeah, yeah. He just got your air out.

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After the season, I'm pretty sure. After we, I don't know how that happened. if we started picking it up and he decided he wanted to keep me around or maybe there was a year on your deal that he couldn't didn't want to buy you out of yeah well i think he was going to just take me out and pay me yeah but so they ended up putting that deal together with the seven and that's what i ended up doing and i've heard you say that you wished that ray had just let you go at this point. So you could go elsewhere maybe

and see what other opportunities there were. Going to the seven car ended up being, in hindsight, not the best thing for you. What do you think you had in opportunities? Was anybody calling? Well, I think we didn't announce that Jeremy was going to get in the car until Atlanta. Yeah.

I believe. And then I feel like he put that deal together pretty quick. didn't really have that opportunity to look around go look around so what did you think about drive for that you know for seven and uh jim smith well i mean i liked all those guys but you know i was you know i was struggle i was basically in the same cars that michael waltrop and mike wallace drove we just put dodge nose and tail on them yeah and uh yeah we struggled and we didn't we didn't even we mean we flashed a couple of times here and there if we was going to one of my favorite tracks or something, but it was a struggle.

How did you manage that emotionally? Dylan was, you know, just, no, this ain't going anywhere. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's just. This ain't, you're not going to turn this team into frontrunner. No, no. I wanted to be back in that other car, you know, the one I was just in, because we were just really getting it.

So you're out there watching that car do what you thought it could do with you in it? Yeah. Well, they struggled the next year, too. Oh? with Jeremy that first year I think they finished 26 in points I finished 26 my first year Was that some

Was that a bit of redemption Because I mean I do that too You know Like if you get You know if you get out of a car Somebody else gets in it You don't want them to do better And you were doing

Yeah Right and so Jeremy gets in there And the car really didn't change Did that make Well they were actually running Worse than we were At the end of that season Yeah

Because we really You know we finally got a team built I got a crew chief that I was really getting along good with at Ray. Have you talked to Ray about any of this since? No. Not that I remember. We've hung out several times.

Like, man, I should have left me in there. You'd give him a hard time about it. Yeah. Well, I definitely think he should have left me in there. You know, I just needed more than one year, you know. That's how I feel, and I didn't think I should have been taken out of it. And I think he kind of felt that way too after the... Once it all, net it out.

After, I mean, they make your damn decision after the season. After, you know, maybe it wouldn't happen. Do you think, so you end up... You do end up moving over to the R&D car that Ray had. Yeah, we had, you know, of course after 2002, that didn't work out. I wasn't really doing anything. in 2003. So you're sitting in Charlotte or back in Nashville?

I lived in Nashville. You went back all? Okay. And so do you think living in Nashville had any influence over your success or lack of success? Well, I've said that looking back, I wish I'd have moved here. Yeah. You know, after I got away from it and I was like, what things could I have done? Yeah.

Yeah. And one of them is being here and being at the shop. and I don't know if that would have done anything. Sure. It wouldn't hurt. No. But I was taken out from what I understand for a performance. Yeah.

But it wouldn't hurt nothing. I think I definitely should have. Yeah. Came here. It was tough, though, to leave what you're comfortable with. I mean, listen, I mean, you know, Chase Elliott, he's the same way. He ain't leaving Georgia. Yeah.

That's just the way it is. If you want Chase Elliott, you're going to have to understand. He's going to live where he wants. And he made that choice. He made it work. But you end up leaving the Cup series and going back into the Xfinity series, trying for Fitz Bradshaw. Well, at first I ran, Ray had brought me back to run Pocono in 03 and a test team.

Had that Mountain Dew Live Wire paint scheme. Yep, number 91. Yeah. And we were running like 7th at Pocono. And I think I broke a Vow Spring in that race. And then I drove for him again in 05. He had that six car, that six bush car. Yeah, the ragu and all that.

Yeah, I drove that thing a few times. Yeah. So you're, that's interesting because you would think that the, You know, when he makes the change in the middle of the first year with you in the cup, that that would have soured that relationship. But, you know, y'all, it didn't. Yeah, no. And you could have been bitter, right, and said, hey, if this guy, I'm not messing, you know, he's dead to me.

Yeah. Well, you know, of course I'm mad. Yeah. But I'm also very understanding about what he's dealing with running these teams and things not going well. Sometimes, I guess people think, you know, I've got to change something. Yeah. And even though I'm the one that it didn't work for me, I'm still, I still understand this stuff. Yeah.

You know, why somebody would do that. And a couple, I mean, I got a couple of opinions of why, because I really don't know why. I got let go. One of them, I think, I think it could have been Dodge won't Jeremy. Yeah. I don't know. could have been Dodge putting pressure on Ray

and had to make a change and I just bad luck for me I don't know Bill Elliott wasn't going to get changed it was one yeah but I I got the feeling sometimes

because we still hung out after that I got the feeling sometimes I think he really didn't want to yeah it's just something else might have been pushing it yeah well I think that he was probably right the three years

you know having given that grace period of three years would have probably been the best alternative you know the best outcome for you yeah you know had you been really given that runway that he thought you needed you know that was probably you would have probably gotten the results you were looking for yeah I needed time I needed more time to develop how to become a cup driver how to be better off the track yeah all this stuff and just didn't get the time that it that it took when you go back into the Finney Series and you get back into their

racing full-time. You did this in 2004. You would end up, you know, kind of bouncing around and doing different things. You ran full-time for Fitzbradshaw. You mentioned racing for Ray and his car, a couple races in 2005. You were a backup driver

for Joe Gibbs in 06 when J.J. Yale had some conflicts in the cup car. You returned to Bruke Co. in 06 as well. You didn't race in 07, back to Baker curb racing in 08. Yeah, I'm just bouncing. You're trying to make it work. I'm just bouncing around doing whatever somebody needs.

What one of those opportunities do you think was the best? My favorite through there is just testing that Joe Gibbs car. Yeah. I mean, damn. I mean, I've always believed in myself. in my driving ability but after a while you're like damn man

I'm not doing good here and then I jump in that Gibbs car it was when the JJ and who was it Denny they were trying to run both schedules

and when the bush cars were somewhere else I would go test I would go practice it and qualified if I needed to I mean I'm just top of the board every time I drive it It's the best stuff I've ever drove. Engines were great.

And I just always wished I could have. One of them might have not made it back. Yeah, you could have got to race it. I could have got to race it. I mean, I feel like I could have really won some races in that car. Yeah. So you end up sort of, you had a crash at Phoenix got you hurt. Yeah.

What happened? Knocked me out. Got knocked out there. Had you ever been knocked out before? No. Have you ever had your head, you know, bell wrong? Yeah. I've saw stars a few times.

Yeah. And you get out and just, you know, you shake it off and act like nothing happened and going about your way. But, uh... Where, whose car were you driving? On the, when I got knocked out. Yeah. This was a, uh...

This was actually a guy from Brucho's car that he just bought and was having, we kept it at Day Enterprise. were told you built that late model earlier we're keeping it there and it was basically just starting parking and they let me race some and this was one

they let me race was running Phoenix and I get clipped they were wrecking in front of me is what I remember and I he would come down a track and I have a full throttle trying to miss him

and he'd nick me and turned me up head on there off a four and knocked me out I remember I don't remember anything really but on TV they got a clip of it on YouTube and they they're showing me and not getting out then they go to

commercial and they come back I'm still not out so I guess I'll you know knocked out pretty good while there what's the first thing you remember I remember I remember waking up and getting in the ambulance and they're asking

me what happened and I made something up. I don't know why I made it up. I don't remember. I mean, I just remember making a story up of what happened. It wasn't even close to what really happened. And I don't, I don't, you don't really know what's going on. I don't know why I told him that story. Sure.

You just need your reaction. Yeah. And then I remember getting there to the infill care center and about to get out. And he's like, oh yeah, now I remember. And I told him another story. I told him another story. Yeah. It was just weird feeling.

Yeah. So you go, I mean, you're all. the way on the other side of the, you're all the way on the other side of the country with a concussion, right, knocked yourself out. Yeah. Your career's not going well. Did you have a, did you have a bit of an honest conversation with yourself on the way home from that or in the days afterwards of, you know, what am I doing?

What do I need to be doing? Am I happy? I mean, does this ever happen at any point during all of this ride switching and bouncing around? Yeah, I mean, I was still trying to bounce around and get something going the whole time. Were you having? No. Yeah. No.

Did you have to make a decision at all at one point and say, you know what, I'm done chasing after these little deals? I'm done waiting on these. I'm not, you know. Yeah, I pretty much, I mean, I was always open to if something else came along that was, that was decent. I would probably look at it, but I wasn't trying. Yeah. I wasn't out there looking. When do you think you came to terms with the reality of your career as a top three-tier, you know, tier NASCAR driver being over?

probably right after that wreck probably I think that. I'm done. No, I mean, I didn't really think I was done but I wasn't going to really put a lot of effort in trying to find something. Yeah, so you went home. If somebody would have called, I probably would have been,

yeah, I'll do that. So you went home? Yeah. And did anybody call? No. What'd you, I think? She didn't care. I think she didn't want me out there getting hurt anyway.

And are you having kids at this point, right? Oh, yeah, I'd already had. Yeah. I already had Kaylee was born in 05. So how are they influencing your life and your decisions at that point? Yeah, you know, I like being home and going to taking them to school and going to games. And it probably influenced some of, you know, not going to the track and pursuing trying to find something. else.

Yeah. So there's a break here after 2009 to 2012. You didn't drive nothing. I don't remember driving anything through that period. Nothing. Until I decided to go get a late model. You ran a car of Sterling's at Nashville in a late model race during 2012. Yeah, well, that was the...

It was like a one race deal? Yeah, it was the promoter then wanted me to come around. So you got a phone call, promoter says, come to Nashville, Fairgrounds and I want you to race. Yeah. And I was friends with him. I've known him forever, too. So he, I think we, like, borrowed a car from Sterling or something. Was it easy?

Because Tony wanted me to run that race. Yeah. How to go? I don't remember how that race went. It must not been too good. Yeah. But I don't remember how that particular race went. But I remember I only ran it once.

And then I started trying to get my own stuff. You got to itch again. Yeah. So I'm just trying to imagine. I mean, you haven't drove a race car in three years. You're driving the kids of school, doing all the activities, being a husband, wife's got you at home full time. Just imagine in my situation, they would probably be really, really happy with that.

And when I walked up one day and said, hey, somebody called and wants me to go drive his race car. My wife, just like she did when I told her I was going to run some car store races, went, how you going to fit that in the schedule? You know? Well, you probably got a lot more going on than I do. Well, I still know that they love you being home. Yeah. And it's not like, you know, it's not the,

maybe it was a little easier decision for you, but. Yeah, plus I don't have to go anywhere. It's right next door. It's right next door. So you, but you get the itch to drive again, and that's what got you back into short tracks and grassroots racing. Yeah. I run that car, Sterling's car.

And then right after that, I believe that story where I went and bought that late model and we rebuilt it. Yeah. I don't know if we ran again that year or not. Might have been the next year after we got that car done. Yeah. How often do you get asked about your cup career? Oh, I don't do. You don't do?

I don't do interviews. I know. We dug up trying to figure out some information. about you the last thing that come up was an article from 2014 was Marty Smith. Yeah. Yeah. I don't do it. Why? Because I don't like talking about it really.

Why? Because it didn't go right. It didn't go right. Yeah. So I don't have to talk about it now, so I don't. Yeah. And so why did you come here to do this? Because it was you. I appreciate that. I'm glad you did, man. I got to tell you,

I you know there's a lot of things about my career that didn't go the way I wanted I never won a championship I was Dillon Hart's son everybody thought

damn if you don't win a championship that's pretty bad you know and there's a lot of people that'll tell you that as quick as they can and so I can kind of relate a little bit

to having some disappointments I could have done things differently yeah I could apply myself I went to race at Hendricks and damn, man, I learned what a champion does, right, to be good. Yeah.

I didn't know that. Driving that bud car all those years, I thought, I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do. But I wasn't. Yeah. And so I can relate to the motion that you have. But I'll tell you, man, I think that the industry as a whole really had a lot of good opinions about you. I remember going to Nashville and seeing you as young as you were competing and racing as well as you were against guys that had been doing it their whole lives and racing at that racetrack and those type of cars forever. And you just picked it right up and went right to it.

And you came in to NASCAR with a lot of fanfare and a lot of high expectations. you'd done great things in the 27 car for Bucco, but you came into a new team, you know? Yeah. And like I was saying earlier, I don't know that you even realized how hard it would be to get that team off the ground, no matter who was driving the cars.

You know, Denny Hamlin ain't going to jump in 2311 cars right at the get-go, right? He ain't going to do that. Yeah. His career is too important. He's not, he's set it himself. He's not going to drive those cars until they get as good or better than the stuff he's in now.

He's not getting out of a winning race car to drive a brand new 2311 car. And so you had a lot of stuff stacked up against you, a lot of challenges. Yeah. And I will say too, man, one of the things that I thought you did well was you kept to yourself. The frustrations of driving, you know, the seven car being relegated down to that team. and taken out of such a great opportunity that you felt was starting to really start to bear some fruit, you managed that well,

as frustrated as you might have been, as mad as you might have been. Yeah, yeah. You never took any of that public. No. You know what? Ray Everingham sat at this table and complimented you on not only how talented you were,

he regrets a lot of the things that happened and that you didn't really. get to see it through, but he still calls you a friend today. Yeah. Yeah, I kept it. I mean, I'm not one, I'm not, it's not like me to go to the media embass anybody or I just,

I just don't like doing that. Yeah, but even even when, you know, you get, you know, drivers get out, stomp their foot, slam a helmet. Yeah. You know, you never did any of it. No. You know, is that, is, is, is, you're a racer. I know you're competitive. Yeah. You have that in, you. you but you were even at a young age able to have a lot of self-control I think which uh which was

pretty impressive I feel like that uh we got a I feel like I have a connection to you because we kind of both came up into the Xfinity series around the same time and uh I love to know that you're still out there racing it doesn't matter what you're racing um it took me a long time to be okay it It took me a long time to have the balls to go drive my late model again. Yeah. I should have did that stuff so long ago. I wasted a bunch of time just thinking, man, I don't want to get my ass kicked by some kid, you know, that's doing this every week. And they do.

Yeah, that's the way it goes. Yeah. But it took me a while to be okay with that. Yeah. But I hope you're having fun. Yeah. You know, even though maybe things didn't go as well for either one of us as we hoped, right, we didn't achieve all the things we wanted at the upper levels.

I hope that you're able to enjoy just racing when you do, right? Yeah. Yeah, I enjoy being, I enjoy driving. It's all I know, really. So I like being, I like driving anything. Trying to figure out how to make it go faster. That's fun, working on the car. At 43 years old, it seems like that you don't really make a plan.

but what is where do you want to be in five years you got kids that are getting old enough to start making their own lives yeah it's got to be pretty frightening yeah it's a rough time right now because you know they're getting older and one of them's about to go to college and I don't want them to go you know

I want to stay around the house for a while but what's that like I'm going I'm a dad of a three and a five year old I'm on the opposite end Yeah, you're just getting going. Yeah. So you're, but here you are with kids leaving the nest. Yeah. Well, I thought Kaylee's going to go to college around the house.

She'll still be there for a while. Yeah, so hopefully I got a few four or five more years with her. Are they building their own relationships and, you know, when they start spending time more time with their friends, boyfriends and all those things and choosing you less. How do you manage that? You know, they're at home all the time. It's the weirdest thing because, you know,

we were always out the house, out the house. We were out doing stuff. But Kaylee and Emma are, they're pretty focused on school, and they both do great in school, and they're always home, they're not out doing parties. So I think I've gotten really, really lucky.

They're always with us. Yeah. I don't have to do a lot of worrying. What's the secret to being a great father, especially a girl dad? I don't know, man. It's just try to tell them stories and make them scared to do stuff they're not supposed to do. How do you do that? That's what I need to learn.

I got one that's out of control, man. She's my old three-year-old's crazy. Yeah. The second one is it was your. your second child a little wilder in the first? No. No? No, she's, golly.

No. We got to, I got to be careful what I say. Yeah, it's, I don't know, I don't, when you're in it, it's hard to think of, you know, what you're doing right or doing wrong, but we've done, obviously done good with those because they're, they're good girls and they don't go out and do parties. You get a lot of credit to your wife and, and how they, and, and how they. how the girls behave how they make oh yeah is it is it as a girl dad is it best just kind of stay out of the way most times oh yeah yeah dude has they uh emotional you know my oldest one i can make her cry like that yeah you know just if i just say something wrong yeah she cried yeah so you got to be careful around them and uh and uh yeah it's just uh it's tough raising girls but i

wouldn't have any other way. You know, I always wanted boys, of course. But after having a couple girls, I don't want a boys no more. I felt the same way. I was thinking, oh, man, I got to have son, you know. And, you know, want a boy playing sports or even maybe racing or whatever, right? And then two's plenty. I didn't want a bigger family than that.

So when we ended up just having two girls, you know, I with the first girl. so I don't know what it was like for you growing up but there wasn't a lot of there wasn't a lot of emotion in the house with dad and all them he was tough and very you know very driven by his career and all that so when I got married and had a wife and then had a little girl I was like man this is awesome you know everybody in here thinks I'm no everybody in here loves me right

and you know it's like more more love in the house So we had a second girl. It was like, well, it's just going to multiply all the, you know, the love. I'm outnumbered, but, you know, having another boy then became a bit intimidating or scary because my wife won't let these girls get, my wife won't screw this up. These girls are going to be great. I don't, you know, but having a boy, it would fall on me a little bit more, right? Yeah.

And, boy, I don't know whether I have what it takes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I feel the same way that Because Laura got to stay home with the girls She didn't work So she got to raise them And I'm so happy that she was able to stay home with them And she did a great job

It made it easy on me I didn't have to do a lot I feel the same way I think if you have a boy though man You're like If he if he screws up It's you That's you doing it

Yeah, I never thought about that way That's true I don't know. There's be some positives to it as well. How much of the sport do you pay attention today? I don't watch it. Yeah. No, I don't watch it that much.

I do a racing pot. We pick six drivers, and at the end of the year, you know, we win some money. I just look at the results. I mean, I see what's going on, but I don't really watch the races. Even Xfinity. Yeah. Yeah, I watch your old stomping grounds. Yeah, I'll watch it.

You think you'd jump in one today and do anything if you got the chance? Oh. Never think about that? I think if it was at the right track, I think I could. What was your track? What was the right track for you? Flat tracks. Okay.

Indy. That's so weird because you grew race in the fairgrounds. You'd think you'd say Bristol or somewhere. I don't know why it worked out that way. It's just what I ran. I think of it. I think Sterling would take any car to Bristol and be fast. Remember he drive that Tennessee

car and stuff like that? Yeah. He just show up for a one-off and running a top five and I'm like which goes in a Nashville? Yeah, I don't know why it worked out that way. Loudoun, Milwaukee, the old homestead, Phoenix. Ran good at them every time. Yeah. Flat tracks. I don't know why.

But yeah, if I could run Loudon or something that I liked more comfortable with, I don't see why I couldn't get in there and be competitive. Figure it out. Yeah. Honestly Yeah Xfinity cars haven't changed

a ton They have a lot less grip Yeah today Tires Tires feel a lot harder

But otherwise Well man I know you came a long way To be here And I told you This but I'm super thankful

Thanks for Coming to be on the show And I hope you enjoyed Your conversation here today. A lot of fans are going to be excited to hear what you've been up to, that you're

still competing in racing is awesome, and I hope you'll continue to do that. And yeah, man, I've always kind of just wondered what you've been up to. I always thought a lot of you, and you were quiet, we never really did get to build a friendship, but I always did. I was the same way with you, man. I'd go up on the driver's intro stage, and I'm like, no, these big people want to talk to me. Yeah, that's the way I felt. That's the way I felt, too. And so I would just stay away. And I'd probably like, look this damn kid over here,

ain't talking to nobody. But it was because I was nervous. I know. I had the same feelings, even though, yeah, things were so different for me from a outside perspective, I was feeling the exact same feelings you had on the inside,

especially when you get in a cup garage with all those guys. But, man, it's been nice talking to you and catching up. You too. Thanks for having me over. Yes, sir. I appreciate you. Casey Atwood on the Dale Junior download.

All right, so quick reaction to Casey Atwood on the show. You know, Casey was reserved and we got up from the table and he said something that I wish we would have gotten into the mic. But he gets up from the table and he says, he says something that made me want to compliment him. He said, oh, he said, my dad used to always say hello to him. He said, you know, your dad, we'd say hey to me, we'd see me in the garage area and stuff. And now we didn't have any long conversations,

but he always acknowledged me. And I was like, Casey, back then a lot of people had a lot of respect and excitement for you. They thought you were talented and going to be, this great, you know, project and product. And then he went to, well, yeah, I just, you know, let a lot of people run over me, run through me, didn't stick up for myself. I think he means on and off the racetrack.

And he's like, you know, I still, he looked at the table and he said, I still don't, I still ain't sticking up for myself today. where he feels like he just came in here and sat down and and got up from his table and got up from that conversation and didn't feel like that he you know stood up for himself. I hate that he feels that way. You can tell if you watch the video of any of this,

you can see it in his face. And he said it as much. Man, he doesn't love talking about his cup career because it didn't work out the way wanted to and I feel terrible for him that he has a hard time discussing something that was such a big part of his life and I hope that maybe he walks away feeling a little bit better about that you know the dude came out of nowhere from nothing you know he didn't have a family in racing he didn't have a famous father or a successful family member that would chaperone him right into the

right into the sport now he did have bobby hamilton he was very lucky to make that connection and that was beneficial to him and everybody who's in motorsports has somebody like that that has helped them through but he he came up through the exfinity ranks and when he was with brucco he was doing great things and running competitively winning races. And, you know, got tabbed to drive for Ray in this great opportunity, and it just didn't work out. And there's a long list of drivers who go into these situations that look great and they don't work out.

And he's not alone, right? He's not on an island in that respect. I'm glad that he's still racing, still turning a wheel. And he's 43 years old and looks great and looks like he continued doing it for several years if he wants. And I hope he will. And I hope that when he goes home and he sees his family and he's proud of that part of his life.

I'm sure he is. And I hope that that helps him. him. Anyhow, man, I can't believe dude drove all the way here to do this show. It's crazy. It's really cool. That's wild, Andrew. Yeah. I'm so thankful for him to do that. I wouldn't have

I would have not been comfortable or I would have personally would have been, if I would have we got it from the table and I said, man, you're not going to do nothing else. You've got so many people you know in this area. You could go to lunch. You could go to dinner. You could see friends. say hello.

And he said, man, I didn't want to bother him. Casey that would. I mean, you know, I'll be honest. He's different than I thought. I really had no relationship with this guy. We hardly talked. And he's right. I almost kind of had this impression of him that he might have been a tinge on the

confident side. Maybe arrogant is just too strong of the word. He did stay off to the side. He did have this sort of brow, this stern look on his face that was difficult. He was not really approachable, even as young as he was.

But he's different than I thought. You know, he's a bit softer and a bit, you know, a bit shy. Well, I hope people are happy to have heard from him and what he's up to. And I hope you'll let him

know if you see Casey or have any way to ever reach out, let him know. Hey man, we're glad to hear from you, Casey Atwood. We're glad to know what you're up to, and I really enjoyed watching you as a competitor. Thank you, Ally, for bringing us this guest segment every week. Thank you for supporting the Dale Jr. download, no matter what you're saving for in life, whether it's a trip to Mooresville, North Carolina, to be on the podcast, or you're buying a new car race tickets. A new home. It doesn't matter. We're all better off with an ally.

We have a new ally today in Casey Atwood. So it's time for the white flag. As you know with the white flag, I'm going to tell you all of the things going on with Dirty Mo Media. On Monday, the tear down with Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi. Action is detrimental with Denny Hamlin. Doorbubber Clear. All those shows every Monday. Yesterday, our dirty air show hit the ground running.

with Tyler Reddick, the winner from Talladega. And then today, Speed Street with Connor Daley and Chase Holden. Tomorrow, Dirty Modo with Steela Tart. They're going to preview Dover on that show. And then DJD reloaded also coming out tomorrow. Carla and the crew, what are they going to talk about this week? It's been an amazing run for them. Hope you've enjoyed everything we've done here at Dale Jr. Download.

And I've enjoyed being at the table this week. and that Marlon Yoder interview was such a good interview and we were able to back it up with Casey Atwood. We've got a lot of great guests coming down the pipe. We've got a great summer ahead of us. We're going to be doing some fun things, having some guests that we've never been able to get into the room. Guests that can't come to Moorsville.

think about that. Who could that be? We're going to have some fun this summer. Look forward to it. We'll see you next week. Take it easy. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.