The Dale Jr. Download - 551 - Paul Andrews: Processing The Loss Of Alan Kulwicki

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with longtime NASCAR crew chief Paul Andrews to learn more about his journey from being a vacuum repairman to a Cup championship-winning team leader. After being raised by his grandparents in Louisiana, Paul found his way to St. Louis where he reconnected with his mother and took a job working at his stepfather’s motel as a maintenance person. When he was working on a vacuum cleaner one day, he went to the local O.K. Vacuum store where he connected with Rusty Wallace, his father Russ, and Uncle Gary, and soon after took a job with the company. Along with this new role of employment came the opportunity to work in Rusty’s race shop after hours, and Paul began traveling with Rusty as he found his footing in the short-track late model and NASCAR worlds.Once Wallace went full-time NASCAR Cup racing in 1984, Paul again found himself in Louisiana, this time running Rusty’s sportsman late model program. Paul temporarily retired from the sport in 1986, but it wasn’t long before he took a call from up-and-comer Alan Kulwicki, establishing one of the hardest-working duos in the Cup garage. The team would overcome the odds and bring home the 1992 Cup season championship. After Alan’s untimely passing in a 1993 plane crash, the team was bought out by Geoff Bodine, and Paul would spend a couple of years honoring his late friend before moving on to other endeavors with Kranefuss-Penske, Dale Earnhardt Inc., Petty Enterprises, and Michael Waltrip Racing. Today, Paul can be found taking it easy, managing his various properties and moonlighting from time to time as a crew chief for JR Motorsports’ late model stock program, working with Dale Jr. when he gets behind the wheel for short track competition.  Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download, the ally guest segment. And we have Paul Andrews coming in the show. Paul won his Cup championship with Alec Wiki. And he's had a story career. Let's bring him in the room. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Everybody is Dale Jr. Dale Jr. back again. For another episode of the Dale Jr. Download, the ally guest segment today. Paul Andrews coming in.

Oh, crew chief. Helped Alan Quickey win his first championship. It's a tough moment for everybody in NASCAR. You were supposed to be on the plane. How real is that? That's about as real as it gets. Sorry. It's about as real as it gets.

All right, everybody, we're back again in the Bojangles studio this week, and it's Wednesday for the Ally guest segment. We want to thank Ally for bringing us the guest segment every single week. supporters of what we're doing around here at Dirty Mo Media and the Dale Jr. Download. And Paul Andrews is going to be on the show. And how did Paul Andrews get into rotation here? So we needed a little help on the late model team. I'm running a couple races this year, maybe a little bit more than normal. And so we also have some other, you know, two car races happening where we got other drivers coming to run our cars. And we needed a little extra help.

So Paul Andrews came across the table. His name was brought up in conversation and he accepted the role. So I've been able to go to the racetrack with Paul. He's awesome. It's really cool to be able to have an experience driving a car that he's working on with everything that he's accomplished in the sport and he's put so much of his life into it. So that's how, you know, I was like, got to know more about this guy. And then when we started digging into his history, what you learned about how he got connected to motorsports, how he how he got routed into the pipeline of eventually becoming a crew chief in the CUP series. It's fascinating.

I mean, it's just really, really neat. And some unique characters and individuals that are well known in our sport gave him these opportunities. And so looking forward to bringing him to the table. Let's go ahead and get it started. Paul Andrews on the Dale Jr. Download. So what's going on? Nothing. Just right now.

Just working at home was actually last night up last night working on a, emergency project had a property, so I had to go do that. Yeah, just take care of things, trying to get my motor home back to Roadworthy. Yeah. So I can make a couple trips of that.

You're a motorhome from your full-time crew chief days. Exactly right, yeah. Man. So I've got rid of it, you know, many years ago, but I didn't. So now you're married to it. Yeah, it's not worth anything to sell. And so you might as well just try to fix it.

Where are you going to go? I don't know. Sturgis is on my list. really hard, but I don't think I'll make it this year. You know, and then a few other mountain trips, and I've got some good friends in Louisiana. We'll go back there and visit them and just go see a few things, you know, so we'll see.

So I'm excited to talk to you, man. I don't know you very well. Yeah. Right? And but I know who you are, and I've seen you, you know, in this sport for decades way back when I was much younger. and I know your career and I know your life, but I don't know you. Right.

And interestingly enough, our late model team needed somebody to come in that we trusted that could help a couple weekends a year. And you're in this certain position in your life where you're available to do that. And so we've actually got to go race a time or two. and you've been helping us quite a bit on some of the other races that we're running with when we run two cars, right? Right. That's been really neat for us and neat for me, and it's kind of every once in a while in life you get these things where you find that opportunity to finally have a chance to get to know somebody who they are, right? And so obviously this show does a good job of that as well. I've had a lot of people come in here

and we'll sit down and talk and get to ask them all the things they ever wanted to ask them. Right. So that's what we're going to do today. Your history and racing before you became a Cup Crew Chief is really fascinating.

I had zero idea of where you came from. And so your dad was a maintenance man or he was working in the maintenance department at a motel or hotel in, where at? Well, that was in St. Louis. Yep.

Yeah, so stepdad, by the way, but from a split family, you know, so it was kind of a weird deal, you know, in general. But I was in the maintenance department at the motel, my stepdad ran. He ran the Holt. Yeah, he ran. He's a manager at the hotel. Wow. And, you know, that was fairly common back then.

You know, it wasn't like it's a, it was a. Holiday Inn or something like that. Nothing crazy. Yeah. But anyway, I wanted, Anita, we had a vacuum that was broke,

and I wanted to, um, uh, needed to fix it. So I, that was, that was a guy to fix it. I think I was,

there's, I was the head of the maintenance department. I was the only one there, right? So, yeah. So anyway, went to the,

looked up, uh, got the yellow pages out. Looked up, uh, you know, vacuum cleaner repair and, and then an okay vacuum was right around the corner.

Kind of sort of not very far away. And this is, you know, St. Louis. So I went to a vacuum cleaner store. I had the thing in a thousand pieces. That's just what I did, you know, took it all apart and figuring what was wrong.

Went there to the vacuum cleaner store. Said, hey, I need some parts for this. So we got talking and stuff, you know, it's kind of crazy. But, you know, I said, I need some parts for this. And so he gave me the parts. He said, so how do you need that, you know? And they said, well, I don't know, this is that. And this is, you know, this is bad or whatever.

But anyway, so he said, and we got talking. And before I left there, he'd offered me a job. Really? Yeah. Who is this? This is Gary Wallace. And it's Rusty's uncle. Okay.

And, you know, Russell's dad, which is Russell's dad. So bottom line is I went to work there. And, you know, because I wasn't getting on with my mother and my stepbed, which we had never, we'd been apart. So that's kind of why it's a long story. We had been apart, and I tried to rekindle that relationship. They didn't raise me. Either one of them raised me, so I really didn't know them. They're almost strangers, you know.

So anyway, I was left North Louisiana. Why were you in that situation? So my parents split. I was born in Maine, raised in Louisiana. And, you know, the bottom line is my mother took me, and now she was from Louisiana, them, took me to and dropped me off at her mother's, mother and dads, my grandparents, and that's who raised me. Where'd she go?

She went on. You know, so it went on with her life. You know, my parents met in Louisiana. There's an Air Force base there, and that's how they met. And then, once my dad was from Maine, and they left, I don't really know all the details. I just kind of look at how it all happened, you know. Look at the facts, you might say. So anyway, they, like I said, don't me off.

Where was your dad? He was in Maine. Have you ever talked to? I didn't meet him until I was 26 years old. 26. Yeah. And so how are y'all's relationship at that point? It was, you know, different, you know, getting strangers.

Did you fix it, though? Yeah, yeah, no, we were fine. You know, it's just that, you know. Did you ask? I'm sorry. That's fine. Did you ask them like, hey man, you know, do you regret any of that? No.

Never, y'all never had that conversation. Never had that conversation? Yeah. And I always look at it like there wasn't really a reason to have a conversation. That's what it is, you know. And I'm always, maybe that's part of the reason. You know, I always look at life like, you know, this has happened. Now we got to deal with it, you know.

And that's just, that's kind of what I did, you know. But anyway, it was funny. You know, he had met. He was remarried. My mother remarried. I think my mother might have been remarried a couple times maybe, but I don't even know that for sure. But you went all the way up there to sort of figure out how to have a relationship with her.

Right. And that wasn't really going well. Wasn't going great, no. And so you end up walking into that repair shop that happened to be connected to the Wallace family. Right. And they offer you a job because you're so knowledgeable about this piece of equipment. Yeah, not even that, just because I didn't know much about equipment. I was just a mechanical guy, you know.

You know, my grandfather, you know, we didn't have money when I raised. My grandfather tore everything apart and fixing himself. And that's just how I thought it was supposed to be done. Right. You know, obviously a big generation gap, you know, right there. But that's how I was raised, you know. Had you ever thought about motorsports at all? I loved racing.

I love mechanics. I love hot rods. And in Louisiana, that's kind of what we had. Drag racing was really big in Louisiana. So I'd go to drag races. But again, we were broke, so I couldn't do much, you know. And I had a piece of junk car and it was I tore all up

You know And tried to modify it the best I could But you know It was uh It was uh you know I was just a car nut you know I mean And uh mechanical guy And that's It really didn't have no clue of what oval track racing

Really didn't I knew I'd seen dirt cars and stuff You know in high school and stuff But never really never been to dirt race Never been to any type of oval track race And uh So when I met with With Rusty in and in the Wallace family.

It really is that Gary's the uncle, Hesel went off my job, and then, you know, Russell was just, Russie's dad, they, they took care of me, you know, I'd say, you know, Russell, lonely money. Yeah. Sorry.

But anyway, you know, it was a neat deal, you know, we, yeah, I hadn't been in, didn't know what overtrak racing was, didn't know what, you know, stock of racing was, so luckily, I mean, not luckily, but at the time, they were this okay vacuum was in the transition of moving to a bit larger store so rusty and i got together and rusty's worked there too and rusty and i moved i mean we made one million

trips from one store to the other store moving stuff and setting up the warehouse was a giant warehouse we set up pallet racking and we moved stuff so we got to know each other right we were together you know eight 10 hours a day you know because we worked for long hours in that deal and then shortly after I'd been there. He said, hey, come help me at night, you know, and that's kind of what I did. And that's kind of what started the whole thing. Yeah.

So you began helping Rusty on his race cars. This is what year, roughly. Late 70s. Graduated high school in 76, oh, 78-ish. Yeah, 78-ish. That's interesting. With everything going on in your life, you're diligent to get finished school yep yeah finish high school no college you know

question yep good grades bad grades okay okay yeah yeah just you know didn't focus didn't didn't concentrate yeah yeah oh yeah yeah you coming I mean I mean just hearing all the parameters going on in your life you could have just easily not finished yeah absolutely yeah but you did right um when you decided that you were going to go work at the vacuum shop and you tell your stepdad. That didn't go well, I imagine? No, it didn't go well at all, no.

Did you live in their home? Yeah, lived in their home. I lived in the basement. It's an apartment, but, you know, in St. Louis, everybody's in the basement. Yeah, I lived in the basement. And, yeah, I didn't go well at all. I think I don't even know how much longer I lived there after we, after we, after result.

I lived in the shop after they kind of, we got in a big fight and they kicked me out, you know, and literally slept in the shop, you know, you know. At rusty shop. Yep. did he uh did he have a cot in there or something I'm trying to picture it in my mind yeah it's like a uh above the office

a little mezzanine above the office you know yeah it's funny you know and just I mean it wasn't great it wasn't for a year you know it's just you know a few weeks or whatever until I got uh I think we the shop was in Valley Park

Missouri and it's kind of a low rent district you might say but a lot of industry and uh so found a room to rent there and uh you know that was my go and got me a place to stay. Yeah. Got your own place? Got my own place.

Yeah. I think I worked at the vacuum cleaner store for a year before, um, before Rusty hired me, uh, uh, full time, you know?

When Rusty had hired you, did he have full time guys on his, is it, it's a race team. It's a race team, yeah. But he didn't have a full time guy. You're the first one. I'm the guy.

I was the employee the whole time. Four boy chassis is what he called it. It built, uh, we built chassis. What? Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Built chassis. built a lot of dirt cars. And racing is really big in St. Louis. So we want to go to asphalt racing, right? But anyway, yeah, Buffalo chassis. We'd come in. I don't a lot of drag car work, really. Saturday, Rusty would get these guys lined up.

You'd tell you what, Rusty's a talented fabricator. Don't let him fool you. But we'd get these guys lined up, draggersers lined up. We'd put these six-point cages in. We'd have them lined up at the door Saturday morning, bright and early. And Bright and early is not much for Rusty being bright and early. But we'd be having them on. up and I'd start prepping them, rusty Benboro cages, and we'd start welding them in, and

we'd put six point cages in all day long Saturday. Really? And we'd do a lot of, like I said, a lot of dragover, a lot of fabrication. We'd buy front clips and then build the chassis, you know, just like, I think it's stock our products, front clips, and just crazy stuff like that. And just, you know, that was the poor boy chassis part of it, you know, and it was fun. We had a blast. Didn't know it at the time, you know, but it worked hard.

We worked a lot of hours, especially. when I lived there. Right. You know, never stopped working, right? Just go to sleep. And, you know, so, but that was, that was, you know, that was pretty interesting for sure. Like I said, we worked hard, raced hard. We ran three races, three tracks a weekend, Friday night.

This is one, I know I was still an okay vacuum for a while during this. But we went to Springfield, Missouri, which is 200 miles south, race against Larry Phillips, and Mark might have come there some. Yeah. And then went 200 miles further south to Fort Smith, Arkansas. That was Mark's Martin's home track. And then come all the way home to Lake Hill Speedway and race Sunday night. So same car.

Awesome. One car. And when y'all competed against Mark and Larry Phillips and those guys, I mean, how successful was Rusty? He was very successful, yeah. Really. You know, I don't remember how many races won, but definitely run races. won races there. But yeah, he was good.

Who's teaching who about chassis? I think Larry was big on that teaching. Because we went to Larry's a lot. Rusty was smart on chassis, you know. Very smart. But I think Larry had a lot of influence in that. You know, we were down there a lot. I think we got a Dilling car eventually once for our S.A. stuff coming along.

But I think we, man, that's all fuzzy, you know. I think we've built a lot of our own cars, really, you know, on the late model side. You know, I don't think we had, well, I don't remember going to a chassis shop and buying a chassis. Yeah. Do you think you gain most of your knowledge just out of pure experience? Yeah, absolutely. It wasn't like one single individual? No, I don't think so.

I would think just a lot of experience. How much do you think Rusty knew in those early years? For at the time, I think you knew a lot. You know, I think him and Mark were pretty close. Yeah. You know, and I think Mark influenced him a lot, you know, and they would talk and Rusty, to the day he stopped driving, would tell you what he had in his car if you're a stranger, you know.

Yeah. But he'd also want to know what you had in your car, you know. And so, you know, he talked a lot and, you know, educated himself that way. But, yeah, that was a big influence for sure. I don't know. I think Larry and Mark both were influenced on him on the setup stuff. Yeah. It's mentioned here that Rusty loaned you to Larry for the weekend.

Well, that was like for a few weeks. Oh, really? So, yeah. So Rusty got a chance to drive. There's a series, it's a pretty popular series back then to drive somebody's car on the West Coast during the winter, right? was Stockton and remember the track that had reverse banking Stockton, California. I think it was. And all those little pretty fast, cool tracks out there, you know.

And there's a series, and you could run, win the whole series and make some really good money, especially back then. Well, he got a ride because I think we were talking about doing it ourselves. Then he got the opportunity to drive for somebody. The people who had had had a towing again, that's going way back. But he drove their car. well if he's working if he's driving and I'm not there we're not making any money so he's got to figure out a way to get me get my payroll so yeah he pimped me out there

to larry phillips yeah we had a blast of larry we ran actually the same series we you know we were there the whole time every race drove up and we were in colorado i remember driving up up in the mountains up there and the truck wouldn't hardly run you know so it's funny but yeah we had a blast out there it wasn't uh one of the larry's better races out there because he's won that he's won that he's one of the lary's better races out there's that whole series a couple times. But anyway, we did that deal, and I was the, I was a nighttime driver. They woke me up at, you know, 11 o'clock, midnight or something like that,

and I had to take it to daylight. Once the sun started coming up, my eyes started closing. But I did that. Me and one other guy that was out there with him for that whole time. I think it was like a month. It was a lot of races, for sure. It was a blast. You know, you're a real race fan when you get the DAC-ass car of your favorite driver.

It's like the official jersey of our sport. It's the ultimate racing collectible that symbolizes a special trackside memory or a milestone moment in the sport you love. Now, thanks to Lionel Racing, the official diecast of NASCAR, it's easier than ever to build your die cast collection. Fans can find Lionel Racing Diacast at official merchandise trailers at the track, at race team shops in person and online, and at a host of official online retailers. 164-scale die-cast collectors can find cars and haulers at Walmart, Target, Meyer stores nationwide. 164-scale die-cast collectors can even find

cars and haulers at Walmart, Target, Meyer stores everywhere nationwide. Plus, Lionel operates its own stores at Concord Mills Mall in North Carolina and at Opry Mills Mall in Nashville. And you can always get your diecast directly from our friends at Lionel by visiting lionelracing.com. Lionel Racing is easy to find on social too. Check them out at Facebook, X, Instagram, and TikTok to see the latest die cast releases.

In 79, y'all chased the USAC stock car tour rookie of the year that year. Right. Second points to Rutman in 80. Right. Also, Rusty's getting opportunities racing for Penske and the cup car in... Atlanta.

In 80, yeah. Yeah, it was it in 80? I think so Okay Yeah Did you Did you go along? Oh yeah

Absolutely You know I was there You know I wasn't You know I was a mechanic And

Tex Pyle was a crew chief There I was a mechanic And just in general You know Even the short period of time I was there You know

Tech's taught me a lot You know You know It's just a weekend thing You know You know You just show up But it's a long weekend

You know Back then especially But I was there Every step in You know Just trying to learn And take it all in And help them

Of course you know so damn cool being in Atlanta for a cup race. That was amazing. Right after everything you've experienced. Amazing, yeah. I drove that car around Daytona in like 2007 or something just messing around for television. That, that impala? Yeah.

Really? No kidding. Yeah. That thing's awesome. Yeah. But Rusty and you continue to compete with the ASA car, the fiberglass, left-hand chassis chassis, the ARCO, ASA, Grand American, All-Pro. it sounds like you guys are pretty busy.

Yeah, we ran hard. You know, a lot of races, we literally get the Speedway scene out and try to find a racetrack between these two or whatever it was, you know, and try to find a place to race. And he'd try to, he'd call a promoter to get show money and stuff like that. You know, all the stuff that we used to do back then. We'd go to them up to Wisconsin for, you know, run the whole one-week series,

where they run all run every night, you know, do that stuff, then go run an ASA race or go run an ARCO race before or after, you know, just we'd go up there a lot, you know, and we did all that stuff. It was a, it's crazy. You did all this. You won Winchester 482, ASA championship in 83, but eventually Rusty goes to race in the Cup Series. Yep.

So what does that happen? What does that mean for you when Rusty makes that decision? So Rusty was, you know, very unsure what was going to happen. nervous of course you know like you should be so he wanted we had a guy that was helping him out in Louisiana called

Nikki Prejohn Southland Fire and Safety and you know Ricky wanted to you know Rusty wanted to continue to run his late model and so Nicky wanted to have everything there so basically we packed up shop and moved everything there took all rusty stuff

and I think Nikki and Rusty had a car together and then you know I think Rusty had a The car sat down there, you know, but packed everything, everything we had. We had a box truck, ramp truck, you know, had everything in it. And we loaded the thing down. I think I made three trips there. And then the last one was with my wife, my wife and my one-year-old son.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That was pretty cool. That was a trip from hell there. He cried the whole way there. I was in the truck and my wife was in the car and we would literally stop and she flashlights and I'd pull over and I'd take him listen to him scream and she'd take him listen to him to scream we'd swap out and that was bad trip but anyway man there's some things when you're a parent

and the child is that young and there's really nothing you can do about those moments but other just kind of weather the storm I can't imagine doing it in a situation like that yeah that was a blast It's crazy. So Rusty, you work out a Nicky Frizan's shot? Preijon. Prejohn, is that how you pronounce it? Yep, Prejohn. And it's a sportsman car.

Yeah. So running in the Bush series? Well, no, we had that. We did do that. But it was primarily for the late models, you know, the standard late models that Rusty'd always run. Really? Really?

We had dabbled in before Rusty, you know, we dabbled in the Bush car, you know, at the time. Cup car when Rusty drove trying to make the Daytona 500 and all that yeah Ramada Inn the kangaroo car that was all us

yeah really that was all right there flipped that car down the back straight away yeah damn that was a big deal there it was uh it's ruggest bell

that's for sure you know but uh of course we didn't make the race but uh that was all right there and then when we were down there and Nikki I think we tried to make a couple of bush races and again that's pretty fuzzy

but yeah I know we had a We had one down there and might have been the same car. I don't know. But it was crazy. We got in a wall at Daytona, the Bush car, I think it was. And they had a frame machine there. We straightened the right side frame out and fix it all up, beat it all back out. Damn.

But yeah, we built a car. This is like still in St. Louis, a bush car, a brand new bush car from Loughlin. So it was pretty cool. We did a lot of different stuff out of there. You ended up leaving the first. race team in 86 and getting into real estate. Yep. So.

Try to get back with my mother again because. Really? Because I had. Why? So what's driving all this? I don't know. It's crazy. You know, just try, you know, never completely cut her off.

You know what I mean? Right. And so we tried to rebuild that relationship again. They're in Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Tulsa, Oklahoma, as a matter of fact. So we tried to rebuild that relationship. relationship and just, you know, I was married.

I had a two-year-old. I had, well, I had a second son by then. We had our younger son, Troy. He was born in Baton Rouge right there, you know, right there in Louisiana. So, which is kind of crazy. I was raised in Louisiana. Then I have a son born there. Yeah.

But pure coincidence. And then, so we tried to rebuild that relationship. You know, obviously I had two little grandkids that she wanted to see and be around. And so that's, I guess that's probably what was driving it. was leaving racing tough yeah i don't know how tough it was still left right you know uh that's really all i'd done i worked on come out of high school no no real jobs you know went to the you know did the vacuum cleaner store but worked for rusty you know for nine years i think it was you know so that was real tough how was your wife uh how was her how was she feeling about moving to

she's very supportive really yeah i couldn't you know she's been very supportive the whole whole or our whole life together, you know. But yeah, it's, you know, my mother didn't really, my mother's around when we got married. It was at the wedding, you know, but just instantly was beating her up, you know, verbally. And, you know, we just, I don't know, it just didn't have a high, how, how it didn't have a, you know, good outlook with her really. So, and that continued when we got. to Oklahoma too. Okay.

So it just, you know, and we were successful there, about a house, you know, lived with them for a little bit. That was a deal. And, of course, we, you know, did that again. But, you know, it just was just a tough situation. We're just too much like oil and water, you know. What was working in real estate like? It was way different, completely different, you know.

What did you know about it? I mean, how did you just start from the ground up? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. you go to one of those courses where you kind of, you know, get educated a little bit and then went to work for somebody, you know, a real estate company, and you're working for nothing until you sell a house, right? So in the meantime, I had to eat. And I had those two little kids needed to eat, so I worked on race cars at night.

Who's? Raymond Patterson. And he was a stock car, a chassis builder. And, you know, like IMCA modified. type cars, you know what I mean? He did that. So I told him I needed some part-time work. I only worked through today. So I'll come in at night. And so I worked a couple of Saturdays when I could, you know, with him. And then next thing, you know, he handed me the keys and just left me a list. You know, I think it's, I don't know, it wasn't there, you know, wasn't him around him

a week where he handed the keys and said, here's the list. Go at go at it. You know, and so that's what I did. You know, I'd worked at midnight every night. And, you know, go back to real estate the next day and just take care of the kids and fend off the people trying to repress my cars and all that stuff. Give me another week. Give me another week, you know. But yeah, just withdraw that stuff. It was a rough life, but we, you know, we made it successful. Made it very successful.

And like I said, bought a house, everything's good on our end. Of course, we didn't get along with my mother. Kind of broke away from that a little bit, you know. And so next thing you know, which is probably your next question. and actually, you know, Alan called me up. And that's how all this started here. You're very emotional about all this. Yeah.

You know, I used to think it's just a, I'm just the way it is, you know, but it has been like that all my life. And I went to, I watched somebody give a speech, and he's very emotional. He said, I'm sorry about this. This has kind of just started since I got a concussion. You know, I've had a concussion. it's like, I don't know if that's part of it or not, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

up until this point at least has been such a rubber band. But when Alan called you, you know, you've built this sort of foundation that you talked about in Oklahoma. Right. And do you know who Allen is? Of course you know who Allen. He's raced against Allen, right? So when he calls you and tells you what he wants to do, he's got his team already pretty much, you know, they're gathering some steam.

He's been racing the Quincy's car a couple years and got his team in a good direction. You go out there and see the shop. Yep. So he called me up and it was, you know, before I even went there, you know, obviously, you know, I had to discuss with Evelyn, my wife, and get her on board and I was, didn't know if I was on board, really, you know. It was like things were finally moving, looking good, you know.

So, yeah, so that's what we did. He called me up. We talked. by the way he had rusty is one who told him to call me right but uh yeah we uh went there seen the shop um just giving a tour hung out with him the whole weekend i think i left i think i got there on a friday afternoon or friday morning something like that and and i left monday morning so it was there a whole time um we talked and went out had dinner went to a bar you know that

type of stuff everything we did uh had a good time um stayed at his house or his apartment say to his apartment but yeah that was you know it seemed like something I wanted to do you know it definitely going to be a learning curve but I knew you know

like you said he had a decent background of what you know two years experience of this whole thing and him and I came from very similar backgrounds so that was you know felt like we would get along very well together you know and we did so yeah fours all over

I went apartment shopping on Sunday and found a apartment and found a place to live and then I think we moved right after the first year. Yeah. So you end up, when y'all got together early in 88, I mean, y'all, he goes out and he wins his first race at Phoenix. Right. And from that moment on, you know, Allen had been around for a couple years. My perception, I feel like public, popular perception was that Alex was a good race car driver, but he became great when you came and become part of it. You know, I think, well, it was definitely there when it happened.

You had a big influence. They had a big part of it, you know. So, you know, Alan, one thing about Alan is you had to, you couldn't BS him, you know. He had been there too. You know, he's, he's done all his own stuff. He couldn't say that you can do this and not be able to do it. Somewhere along with, you're going to get tested. And that was the biggest problem with people coming to work for Allen.

They would BS him and he would see through it. Yeah, exactly, right? So, yeah, we built a group of people like that, you know, together. And, you know, he did the hiring, you know, but if I had somebody that we liked, we would try to talk about it. and but built out that like-minded people, you know, and that's what, you know, help.

It's always, it's always about the people, right? You know, so it's, yeah, it was, you know, we did everything we could. We, we were always trying to, you know, think about outside the box, you know, we had three Lake stock cars, you know, so yeah, stuff like that. No one ran anything like that.

Yeah, not very many, a few bush cars. And so, you know, our background's three-linked. three links you know that's rear suspension for a lot of people don't know but uh anyway we did that we did all kinds of stuff we had front clip stuff that we tried back back then there was banjo cars and which is rear steers and hopkins has come along uh somewhere in the middle all that uh because he actually worked for lawflin back in the day and then uh they then there's hopkins cars and hopkins and so we were all over all that stuff you know yeah uh ronie hopkins um you know i always I don't watch your shows all the time,

but whenever I see you, I try to watch quite a few. I always hear people talk about Ronnie Hopkins. Well, Ronnie Hopkins helped Alan also, you know. But he was, uh, he took and was at the shop and would help him with, you know, his,

give him his sales pitch on his suspension products. And, uh, yeah, he was very instrumental on, you know, moving everybody forward, you know, in general,

just in the whole industry. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, we would, uh, we would go through all that stuff.

you know, you'd cut a front clip off a car in a heartbeat sometimes, just to go try something different, you know. So that was, all that stuff is going on. Like I said, the three-linked stuff, we were swapping that out. We'd go test. We could test whenever you wanted, basically. It wasn't a real test rules and test a lot. And this is a group of 10 or 12 people, you know.

So this is, this is, we're doing a lot with a little. And that's everybody dug in, really, you know. Yeah. That was the one thing that I thought was interesting about, You guys developing that team into a winning team, but also a championship team, knowing that you did that on one of the most, one of the strictest budgets. Yeah. Because, you know, the Hooters money was a savior to Allen when he needed a partner, but by no means did it measure up to the Budweiser's and the Good Wrenches in the series, right? And y'all are able even, I mean, I remember at Dover, you wrecked three cars, I think, that weekend.

Yeah. And I'm thinking, how in the hell does a team like that recover from a weekend like that in the middle of the, you know, season grind trying to win a championship? But you did. Right. You know, and y'all, how do you think, when you look back on that, how did y'all, how did you manage the financials of it? and how was Allen instrumental in that as well? Because, I mean, you couldn't overspend.

Right. Alan wouldn't survive and he knew it. So everything went through Allen, you know. He ran the team as far as a financial standpoint. He didn't have a bookkeeper. He had a secretary. And, I mean, if you look at checks, I still get somebody, I send me a picture of a check of his name signed out.

He signed the checks. Whenever I buy something, you know, if I had to, if it's something big, we obviously talked about it. If it was little, I had to. I had to I actually had to start a process where I would approve the receipts like when we got it in and then you know I put my initials on it and just we kind of started all kinds of processes like that but you know to help him but yeah he ran it all you know he likes setting up his own cars too you know he was set he set up most of his cars he was right there doing the whole time that's just what

you did back then you know and again small budget not not everybody did well yeah that's what That's what we did back then. Not everybody was doing it, y'all's late. No, you're right. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, but that's kind of the life. That's how we were brought up as a group, you know. How sustainable you think was that for Allen?

Well, it already changed in 93 after we won the championship. We had to make huge changes on how we did things, you know, give me more responsibility. And, you know, so it would already, it was, it already has changed. His responsibilities and commitments were taking him in new directions. Right. You know, Alan's passing was a tough moment for everybody in NASCAR. That was a really difficult stretch with everything going on with Allison family. Right.

And I know this is a very emotional thing for you, and I don't want to make this difficult. but you know what I guess in in researching this in our notes you were supposed to be on the plane like how go ahead right how real is that that's about it's about as real as it gets sorry it's about as real as it gets you know we were um we were um we We were, you know, we were, like Dornetton was the last race. We'd ran. Pitsops were okay. They weren't great.

And I think that was a year where we went to two impacts. I think instead of three, because we used to have three impacts, which is pretty cool. But, yeah, we decided as a group. So I guess what started was Alan had to do this appearance in Knoxville. And Bristol's not very far away, right? So we decided, and that was our plane. That was part of one of the perks was, you know, to fly out of the races. You know, that was a Hooters plane.

Hooters owned it. That was part of their compensation package for the, you know, for 93. And so we decided as a group, as a pit crew group, to go ahead and just hang back. We were going to get there late anyway and do pit stop practice. We had one guy coming from Virginia, Joe, who came from Virginia, and he couldn't get there early enough. for us to pit practice and make the plane. So, yeah, we, I said, it's about as real as it gets, so, yeah, we decided to. Yeah.

Do you, do you, since that's happened, have you had you talked to anyone about your, your memories of that? Probably so, you know, that was, you know, we drove, of course, and no cell phones back then. I think we might have had one or something like that show. So we drove the racetrack or drove the Bristol, drove the motel. And as soon as we got to the motel, there's a message from Tom Roberts, which is our PR guy back then. And Sputter, I think at the time maybe. But anyway, Tom Roberts, hey, call me up.

Something's happening. And everybody had the same message, you know, because he called the motel and knew where we were staying. And that's how we got the news. that something had happened. The sad part about it was, it's not really sad, it's all sad. Nobody would say that

everybody perished in the plane. You know, nobody would ever say that. You just said there's been an accident, there's been a plane crash, you know, and Alan's, you know, Alan's plane went down, okay? Is everybody okay? You know, nobody would say.

So finally it was, I don't know, midnight, 1 o'clock, you know, when they finally told us, you know, maybe even later than that, So it was a, that was a tough deal. Yeah. I hate that it's so emotional for you. I mean, you know, everybody handles this differently.

My sister with my dad, she's, I mean, my sister is similar to you in the same way of how she feels about dad's passing. And I don't know, no, I didn't know that this was as emotional as it was for you. And it makes me wonder how you were able to pull it together, right? Not just for the next day or but the next year and the year after that. And you even stayed with the team. I mean, how painful that must have been. But, I mean, because I'm sure that you could have done other things. Yeah.

You know, it wasn't, it was tough. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. But we all felt like we had a job to do. Was there this sort of, um, When dad passed away, D.E.I. motored along on this idea that we were doing it because it's what he wanted. Right. Or we were doing it for him or we're seeing out his vision, right?

Is that sort of some of the emotion y'all carried yourself on for a while? I think so. And there's a couple of guys that just, you know, they couldn't handle it. They had to leave. It was just, you know, different people handle things differently, you know. So I get it. Yeah. So, you know, the people that stayed.

A lot of people stayed. You know, we felt like we were doing this for Alan. and there's memory and for ourselves too to prove that we were you know a good team a good quality team you know and we could still do it so I think all that played in it you know yeah so I had Jeff

but I don't hear not too long ago he purchases the race team right right Jeff's got a storied career has had good success just a unique individual my dad had a lot of running

with him so I have a certain I have kind of a skewed right of the right right him but I don't not like the guy right right is a good guy you know when you learn that so you're I mean I imagine a lot of this is out of your hands oh yeah right absolutely and you have no control over about what you know what might happen or where you get your next paycheck from or who signs it so how you know how did you feel about that news when you heard Jeff might be interested. So we were involved. I was especially, you know, and a lot of the team was kind of kept the speed, you might

say, and I was probably a little closer to it than the rest of them, you know. But we were kind of involved and were stepping away, you know, and try to, you know, again, just try to keep the whole group together and, for one, and then try to be involved in who's going to who's going to purchase team. Yeah, I had nothing to do with it. Yeah. But at least I knew what was going on, you know. So we were all for, Jeff.

And for the candidates that are out there, he seemed to be the best one. And at the time, he was winning in races, he's good. You know, had a long-term future, he thought, you know, a long-term plan, you might say. But, yeah, it was, I think we're all for it. Yeah. So one thing I want to add real fast, sure. This may be tough.

But after I was, after I was, I'll get there after Alan's passing you know we're working in the shop this the whole time we're there and Alan had a way of walking up behind you

and you you just know he was there but anyway that you can feel his presence and that feeling really never left really

really in that shop that didn't say that. It felt like he was still watching us. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, you know, it's neat with Jeff. He come along there. He drove at the, you know, entered the 93 season. I was able to get out of the Budmore car.

And, you know, we've seen success right away. You know, I don't think we want to race then. Yeah. But was my working on plans for next year. ran really well, started building some cars, started rebuilding some cars, you know, with some older cars and starting to get rid of some stuff too, you know. So we had one car called a morphidite that always was our experimental car that Alan always wanted to do something with.

So anyway, got rid of that thing. But yeah, I guess, you know, just try to update their fleet and make it better and that, you know, started getting ready for next year. So around that time, Hoosier was back. Yeah. And Jeff would tell us that he played a significant role in developing the tire that they would run. Absolutely. Tons testing.

Yep. I guess they had other drivers doing the testing. And Jeff was like, nah, that's not working. I'll do it. Right. It would pay off because you'd take that tire and you'd win races with it. Right. Now, I'm not sure if you were there when this.

happens but Jeff the Hoosier deal goes away right right what Jeff put in his book was that he had went to Jim for or Bill France in the in the and the in the leaders in NASCAR and said you know he felt like that he had Hoosier in a good place right right well when when Goodyear got their house in order and NASCAR realized that they were back stable again, they would recommit to Goodyear and Hoosier would have to leave. And so when that basically put you guys back on

Goodyear tires unwillingly, but to continue to race in the NASCAR Cup series, that's what you'd have to put on your race car. And Jeff swears that they did everything they could to screw him over in terms of physically giving him bad tires, and I was curious you were there. You were working right on top of it. You know, I had the guy who wrote his book,

or helped him write the book, you know, asked me those questions. I was like, you know, I don't know. I can't say that. You know, I can't say I've seen that. Yeah. I didn't know he went to NASCAR about, you know, that. I do believe that.

I was pretty sure he did that. It's just, it's hard for me to, it's hard to be agree with that one because I just see how things are done. I don't quite buy that one I'll be quite honest but you know they definitely didn't treat us great

that's for sure you know that part's true it was tough on us yeah you were not yeah you were not the friend no that they won't you know because you'd went to the other side right exactly right and and

and beat them with it you know right yeah that was an interesting there was a couple times there when Hoosier would come into the sport and I couldn't understand that dad would uh you know other teams every team would be on who's your tires right and only dad and dave marcus would be out there running on good years that were three seconds slower yeah you knew yeah you were going to have a bad day yeah that first was the first year to came was it was 89 or something yeah and so but dad and and and i know why marcus did it he he you know i know why marcus

did it but but i'm thinking dad dang you know what is what is the purpose of sticking to your guns here and being so loyal right um when everyone else in the fields has jumped off the the good year boat and um move fast forward to this particular session of of tire wars um so good year did hold some grudges right yeah absolutely what would what could they have done to make like limit your test time not call you to, you know. Yeah, we definitely didn't get to do any good to your tire test, that's for sure, you know. But, yeah, it was, yeah, I don't know. Actually, I don't agree with Jeff's theory on that.

It's hard to say, but, you know, it's a little hard on us on NASCAR. You know, of course, you can probably get your tires late, you know, stuff like that. But it's just part of the deal. Why did you eventually make the decision to leave the team? I felt like Jeff was heading the wrong direction. I didn't really want to, you. I just thought there was kind of heading right in the wrong direction of things he's doing.

And, you know, I think that was that year he sold the team or partners and somebody else. I knew he was in trouble. Yeah. A sponsor wasn't what he needed. And I thought it might be time to, you know, make a move.

And the Crane of his guys were wanting me to come over. You know, Michael Cranfus, I knew him for a forward relationship when he ran forward. And so I knew him. And then didn't really know Jeremy, but, you know, got to, know him a little bit and thought he's up and coming and thought it'd be a good move how'd that experience go that's good you know we as it was it was started off the company started off

as craniffis hoss carl hoss is a partner with michael crannivus and then eventually went to penske kranovus and uh penske bought out uh carl hoss's portion and it was good we won races with jeremy uh right you know that's that first year um there's a lot of rule changes going on we were able to capitalize on that part of it really fast kicked her butt poking oh really good and i had a lot of good things going on really you know we were still building you know but we had a lot of things going on then the Penske thing come in that kind of almost interrupted our process you might say and we had to fight a little bit for what we wanted chassis we built our own chassis they wanted us to use Penske chassis you want to use our chassis, you just stuff like that.

You know, you had a little internal fights, you know, you might say, are disagreements, and you had to work through that. But it worked out really well. You know, we had good cars. Almost won the Daytona 500 that your dad won. Led that race. Had fast cars, Rusty and Jerry both. Just to get to that point where that car was kind of a battle in itself, you know,

because I think we were able to test then. We had to, I felt pretty sure. strongly about our car being good and we just needed to work on it a little bit and cut the sides off of it and took it I think we put new sides on it to go to Daytona I got in big trouble about that why because they wanted to take me want me to take rusty's backup and just I was familiar with our car and felt like we could fix our car and and we did you know well I got in big trouble about that but that's okay but yeah I did that and just didn't want to take away from anybody else and felt like we were right there you know and and that car is fast we almost

one Daytona. It was pretty cool. Yeah, the Pocono wins, the famous moment where he puts, you know, gets the bumper to dad. Yeah. And turn three and four.

And which not many people got away with. Yeah, I know. But Jeremy was certainly a guy that was willing to do it. How did that deal shake out? So toward the end of that, actually let me go.

They fired me. What happened? So Jeremy was, I think I complained to Michael about how Jeremy's attitude was. He was kind of getting ready to go in a different direction, I think. Jeremy was just mentally, and I think he had a girlfriend, you know, he was already married, you know. So just, I don't know, I thought that was interrupting.

I told Michael, you know, this is the comment he made, I made a comment for the race. And I mentioned that to Michael. The next thing you know, they're telling me to get out. So it's fine You know I consider it out a blessing sometimes You know It was good though

You know It was a good time while we were there And I was mad about that one And I was furious You know Because it definitely caught me off guard And yeah I was just furious about it

But then your dad called me up How quickly? Hours Really? Yeah Yeah So So, Ty, I called you a horse.

And he said, hey, Dale wants to talk to you. I said, all right. Well, I'm, you know, obviously, I mean, literally, it was ours. Yeah. So I said, I can't right now. He said, no, you got to get over here. You got to get over here now. Why couldn't you?

I don't remember what I was doing. But I was doing something. I cleared out my stuff. I had to get everything out of there because they were going to take it if I didn't. So I got everything out, cleared everything out, which I called them off guard. But I took all my notes. and like I said I was furious had to get stuff gathered up

so anyway I was had out gone done and I was doing something I don't remember what it was I felt like it was pretty important obviously next day I know Dale calls me up so no you gotta get over here now I gotta leave you got to get over here right now so all right I've headed that way so he had called yeah he finally called me

after I told Ty give me a little bit and so what happened they hired me up you walked over there Yeah. And who's in the room? Ty and Dale. And they said what?

Come on. Yeah. That was it. Did he tell you what you're going to make or nothing? Probably. Maybe Ty did. I don't remember. That wasn't really important to me at the time. You know, I felt like it'd be fair.

I think when we got down to it, it had a good bonus structure. And that was, you know, I'm good with that. You know, I felt like I'm going to win races, you know. So I was, yeah, I was. I mean, didn't care what happened. Yeah. It's just come to work, you know. Come to work.

Go be Parks, crew chief. Yeah. Steve was, you know, up and coming and hard racer. Yep. Buckled in, dialed in. Yep, exactly right. You know, he'd come off that wreck in Atlanta, you know, but he was back from that. And it was good.

And just they weren't really going anywhere. And then I think they had already let the crew chief go, I think. It was there before. So anyway, yeah. come in and I think our first race was the open and I don't think we won it but um ran good you know just like you know I think I I don't think I I showed up at the track to crew chief of the car I don't think I ever seen the car until we got to but I may be wrong on that but I never even got to touch it you know really um so how did you enjoy uh working at the I loved it really

It was good. You know, got along with good with everybody. You know, was able to help build, you know, build it. Of course, you were coming along short after that, or was that, were you Bush racing in or were you cup racing? Bush racing in 99, cup racing in 2000. Okay, so you were already cup racing, right. So, yeah, that was because 2000s is when I went there, wasn't it, I think?

Yeah. So, yeah, I thought that was really good. It's hard to get along with both Tonys, you know, just because they were guarded. You know what I mean? And they're good. I get it. They're guarded and focused and, you know,

they're on their own deal, you know, which is fine, you know. So I felt like that we, you know, was able to do a lot with, you know, that short period of time we were there, you know, before everything blew all up. Yeah. So, I don't remember.

What would end up happening with your role at DEI? So, again, years kind of get fuzzy but anyway um you know park was there we won races one of those two races and then um and park got hurt and then uh then we brought kenny in uh that was my suggestion to bring kinney in and that worked out really well uh kenny wallis yep and then uh park was coming back you know we you know we all did the testing you know went to charlotte yeah you know did all stuff and thought he was good you know and still thought it was you know good um thought that was right But, you know, things didn't go good when we got back.

When he got back, Park got back, and then got people beating on my door, you know, trying to get me to come to work for them. And then told him at the total tie at the end of the year, I was going to leave, you know. And then, you know, this is three-quarters way through the season, you know. And then things started going downhill some more, and they thought it's time me to go ahead and go. So that's what I did. Where were you going to get? Roush.

Yeah. Went to Roush. worked for Jeff Burton. And then, you know, that didn't go very well either. Why not? I don't know. It's a strange place. You don't say.

Yeah. It was strange. I'd always heard that. Yeah, it was tough to work there. You know, they would tell you, they'd tell you everything, but I don't think they ever did. You know, it was just, it was a tough place to work. Jeff was probably on his downhill slide of his career. Probably didn't help none, you know.

And I was super excited about it, you know, come in and I wanted to lighten their cars up, and I did. And that ended up being a big fiasco. They didn't want to do that. So they put the weight back on me. I did things that I thought, well, it was better and proved it was better and made them lighter. But, oh, we don't want to do that. It's just crazy stuff like that. You know, it's a, yeah, it was a tough deal.

I was miserable at the end of that. Wow. And I said, man, just take me away. way you know let me go you know just i don't i'm this is not working uh get me out of this i've had enough you know and you know and you know they did you know eventually you know it took a few more races you know but it was uh it's a tough deal you know you'd go work for uh casea kane in the xfinity series and then eventually move over to petty enterprise in 2005 and this is uh working for Kyle Petty and bobby lobani and you mentioned default right so 2007 you're um

You're changing a light bulb on a ladder. Well, yeah, adding a little fixtures what I was doing, yeah. In the shop. In the shop, my shop, yeah. Your home shop. Mm-hmm. So what's going on? So, yeah, the Tim and his, Tim had his Bush North car, my son, Tim, Bush North car.

And he was, him and his buddy just push it outside and do a little bondo work on it. Or he was going to, you know, just a little budget deal, you know, just painting those. So they were pushed the car outside. All right. So while this car is outside, I need another light here. And at the time there were those big mercury halon lights, but no ladder, I mean, no lift, just a ladder, climbed up the ladder, which I'd done a hundred times, you know. I'd run electricity from one end or another at that shop, you know, on that ladder.

Well, I guess it was just a wrong angle or whatever, and I'm pushing up with a drill, which is obviously pushing down on the ladder to drill a hole to put a junction box there. And then the ladder went down. and I know I remember nothing. I mean, that moment, I vaguely remember that day. It's crazy because I was let go from pennies. And I was pretty upset about that, you know, that had happened because I didn't feel like I deserved it.

We were the best running Dodge at the time, better than Abraham's group, but it wasn't good enough. Which, okay, I get it. So anyway, the penny guys that came over, they were at the Winstown that night, or that day right whatever uh and they come over to see me because this my shop is literally around the corner from aerodine wind tunnel so they uh that's what i remember that's the last thing i remember that day that was a damn three o'clock or something like that yeah and this happened at six or seven eight something like that you know so yeah it's a this a this is a bad fall concussion uh

shattered my heel, my left heel and Kess messed up my ankle joint of course. And then compression fracture, my L3 compression fracture. So yeah, I was a mess. Geez. How tall is this ladder? Holy smokes.

That's 18 feet. Yeah. Yeah, 18, 20 feet up in the area. And the doctor said I jumped because the ladder was going down. And then and I said I jumped because the ladders was here and I landed over here

you know so it's like and it's not funny but Tim said to him and his buddy had just stopped the DAs you know just stopped ground in for a second and uh and I landed pretty much right next to the garage door the garage doors closed and everything

because I hated the dust but anyway they said they heard this big commotion and they walked in the door and I had a little what is it a little shear there and I was kind of like halfway land or anything this year and i looked up at him and said this is bad just go ahead and call

911 and i remember nothing you told him that and you don't remember them that yeah yeah i remember waking up in the hospital not waking up i thought they said never never never passed out uh he said i i remember in the hospital big guy setting my ankle in for a cast and that's what i remember to it's like that's what that's the point i remember it's like because he's killing me I said, this is killing. What are you doing? I was just raising the hell, you know. So, yeah, that's what I remember waking up to.

And so, yeah, it was quite the experience. And later on, it's out of job, of course, and I'm on crutches going around trying to get jobs. And I think what made that worse, when was this? This is late. I was in the recovery process. And we, I went to, I went to the, oh, I'd, I had a motorcycle, I was moving it into basement.

And I was already on 25% weight on my ankle and a half boot, you know, moving right along, you know. Well, I moved this, I wanted to stand this motorcycle up and just move it back two feet. Well, I slipped on me, and I put a lot of pressure on my foot right then. And it hurt. And I was like, hmm, so anyway, I didn't think nothing about it. So I went to Atlanta, which is going to be my last race to go, trying to get a job, you know, and to go see people and talk to people. I was talking to several different people at the time, you know.

So anyway, I went to Atlanta and it's like, man, as soon as that, usually when the race would start, I would, you know, head home, you know, drive home. So anyway, got in the car. My wife usually was with me at the time. Did the Atlanta deal. I said, get in the car. I said, hey, let's get out here right now. So I went home.

She said, what's wrong. So I told her what I did. He's ready to kill me, of course. So anyway, called up the doctor and said, hey, here's what I did. Come in here, kind of like Dale. Come in here right now. I mean, this is a busy doctor, you know. And so come in here right now, I want to see you.

I'm at this location in Charlotte. It's all right. I mean, this is like an hour or two, you know. Just get in here, I'll see you, you know. He knew exactly what happened. He took a needle, has no beds out of her, and she shoved it in my ankle. I pulled fluid out and it's all clear.

So I was infected. So then I had to go back in there again. It had screws and plates and all the stuff. They had to go back in there again, pull all that crap out. And what's called a, it was infected, staff infection. So they had to put a line in my arm to the top of my heart to drop an antibiotics in on a daily basis and just basically open it up all again, start all over again, and here I am. trying to get a job.

Yeah. This is the end of the season. I don't remember when Atlanta was, but it wasn't the last race. But, you know, toward the end of the season, I'm trying to get a job. And, you know, Daytona's looking around the corner here. I'm getting cut up again. That was devastating for me, really. You know, it was a tough deal.

I bet. Man, 2008, you'd go work for Michael Walter. Yep. Get an opportunity to go there. I mean, this is kind of your last opportunity in the Cupside. Right. When that ends, are you, you know, where are you mentally and emotionally? This is, you know, 15, well, 14, 13 years ago.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm tore up. You're, when did you finally get, come to terms with the idea that your, that your life as a cup crew chief was, had come to an end? Yeah. You know, it's somewhere in that time period. You know, I kind of thought to my. deal is gonna be my last opportunity to try to get this back on the get this train back on

the right track you know so you know and I'd been working with an arka team with Tim my son trying to get him some rides here and there so I've been doing little stuff with them and you know so the Michael deal didn't go good for whatever reason and I don't know it's just that's this what happened so I took and did some part-time market stuff And next thing, you know, I turned it into a full-time market stuff. Yeah. What was your, how did you enjoy that experience? That was fun.

Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. You know, he was able to, you know, just able to take cars and the school part about that, you could take old cup cars and buy them for very little money and tune them up and kind of archaize them and go race them and have a less, you know. And the neat thing about that is the drivers, you know, the young drivers get to work with, which at the time I'd had, you know, I'd toward the end, I'd had older drivers, you know, and, you know, all on the backside of their career. So it was nice to work with the young guys,

and I didn't realize how much I liked that until the Arkadil came around, you know, so I got to do that, and that was a lot of fun. We won a lot of races. We won one championship with them, and I think it all just kind of came together, you know, it wasn't really, that's what I'm what we would do, you know, just I did it out of necessity. And then next thing you know, here's an opportunity for this and an opportunity for that. And, uh, and, and then, hey, why, won't you take our Archer team and move it from Georgia to North Carolina and, uh, at the same time, we got an affiliation with Penske. So, okay, well, I know the Penske guys, you know, and it just all worked out well, you know,

so, uh, it's able to still be around cup cars and, and that schedule was low, short enough, you know, 20 racers or so where you could still do other things to. still trying to help Tim race. That had kind of went by the wayside shortly after that, you know. But, yeah, it's not really what I intended to do, but that's just kind of the opportunity was there. But it was a blast. We had a good time.

I think we did that for 10 or so years, right? Yeah. You still do some one-off gigs from time to time. Yeah. You know, what decides what that is. It's just opportunities just come up. You know, somebody will call me up and say, hey, Bruce Cook called me up

when it was after Kevin Harvick sold KHAI Bruce was there working for the new guys which I forget the name but anyway hey Kevin wants to run a couple of races when you come crew chiefing you know and so Kevin's crew chief for two races at

Martin'sville which is pretty cool at the time when he wrecked him and the three wrecked he parked in his pits Dylan boys. Yeah yeah that was a blast you know stuff like that some one-off stuff with Tim with

Archie St. Larry, you know, just some one-off stuff. It kind of, it's probably a lot of the focus was toward Tim on the one-off stuff. Whenever I could do that, you know, I'd always try to work something in where I can get him an opportunity, you know.

The, with, who is it, get some of the names. But anyway, just trying to just make that happen. Rick Ware, we did a few things with Rick and it's got a fun. Yeah. So as I said earlier in the show,

you've been helping us on our Junior Murgisport Slate Model team a little bit. We went and raced together at Jacksonville. Jacksonville, yeah. Had a really good time. Plenty of race car, I'd say. Driver probably got a little too aggressive in some moments in the race. But I guess we're going to run some more this year. William Byron we announced is going to go race at Carraway, so I assume you're going to be helping us on.

That's her next one, right? Yeah. So you're excited about the opportunity to work with William. I don't know that you've ever worked closely with William before. Not closely, no. He drove at KBM when I was there, and I just talked to him just briefly, you know. But yeah, we're really excited about that. I know how the guys at KBM liked him.

Of course, he'd been there before, you know, obviously. But that was a thing I'm looking forward to that. We, uh, it took Sammy Smith and Wilkesboro got rained out of that. I think that was going to be a good day. Still, we're going to go back to that. So that'll be fun. Yeah. I got a couple races coming.

Yeah. So, um, you know, what are you, what, what are you, what, what do you want out of life from here on out? What do you, what would you love to do? What would you love to accomplish? I think I've done it right now, you know, spend some time my grandkids, take them on some trips, go to the beach, you know, take care of a few things I got. you know, got a couple of properties, so just take care of that stuff and just to chill out for a while, you know, so it's been, been wide open for a long time, you know,

so it should be fun. Yeah, I'm looking forward to your, you enjoying all that, man. Yeah, I like the racing, you know, when you guys called up, Brian called up, is a good opportunity. It gives me a little bit of racing that I like doing. I mean, I've been doing it all my life, you know, I'm knowing nothing else, really, you know. So I'm excited about that. I have a good time with that, too.

Yeah, I'm kind of doing it. it for the exact same reasons. I don't want to quit, but I just kind of want to enjoy it at the right amounts. Right. Right. And the right portions. Right.

And I think we were talking about this on the show yesterday. I think my Xfinity stuff, I'm probably winding down to not doing that much at all anymore. But this little late model car is just so fun and easy to, to go for one weekend, and it's good, not too hard on my family. Right. And it's not too big of an ask from everybody at home to go out and get a fix, right? Right. Right.

I appreciate that you're excited and willing to be a part of that with us, and I've enjoyed the opportunity that it's presented for me to get to know you better. And I'm thankful for you coming on the show today and talking to us. I've always wanted to talk to you about you're so well regarded and respected at what you accomplished in the cup level, and particularly with helping Allen win his championship. But I also had no idea about your connection to Rusty and how getting employed at the vacuum repair shop really was the catalyst to everything. Yeah, he really was. That you experienced in motorsports.

It's pretty fascinating. Yep. Well, I appreciate it, Paul. Thank you for coming and join us today. Thank you. I appreciate it too. It's good to be here. Yes, sir.

Paul Andrews on the Dell Jr. Download. All right, so that was a fun interview, a great interview, but very tough at times with Paul Andrews. I just, you know, taking aback a bit on how difficult that all was for him to share. And even some of the, you know, I. I don't know. I mean, the guy just seemed to have a lot of emotion going on, even as we're wrapping up the show, you know, he's just kind of having a hard time managing, I guess, all the thoughts going on in his head, in his mind.

And I just hate, I hate that he feels so much weight. I hate he's carrying so much. yeah because I like Paul I think Paul's such a nice guy I think uh you know if you listen to the interview you're you got to feel the same way easy going um but uh just a lot a lot on his shoulders and um I'm not sure that um you know I just wish that I could help him I don't know I wish that um he could talk to somebody or sit down and sort of get all this off his chest.

And maybe this show helps a little bit. I don't know, but I don't know. I don't know that it will. I think he, I think he's got some tough things to sort through. Or he just decides, like a lot of hardheaded guys from his generation to carry it on. But I have enjoyed getting to know him. I've really enjoyed being at the racetrack with him.

When we were at Jacksonville, it was just thinking, sitting there looking out the windshield of that car going, I can't believe it, Paul Andrews helping us today, working on my car. So anyways, hope you enjoyed that interview. Pretty fascinating to learn about how Paul got connected to motorsports and working with Rusty Wallace all those years. I had no clue that was part of his life. I want to thank Ally for bringing us the guest segment every week. They're such great supporters of everything we do here at Dirty Mo Media and the Dell Jr. Download. And they brought us another ally this afternoon.

No matter what you're saving for, whether it's race tickets, a car, or a new home. We're all better off with an ally. All right. It's time for the white flag. Dropping last Sunday night, the tear down with Jeff Glock and George Bianchi. Dropping Monday, action is detrimental with Denny Hamlin. And door bumper clear. Make sure you go listen to those.

Yesterday, our dirty air show. and dropping today, Speed Street with Connor Daly and Chase Holden. Tomorrow, DJD reloaded and Dirty Mo Doe with Steve LaTarton, Tampa, Tams is back. And don't forget, Windale Jr.'s ride launched yesterday. The 14-year program is trying to raffle off a brand new, 2024 Chevy Corvette Stingray, $25 per ticket. The program runs until September 30th or until tickets are sold out. Thank you, Chevrolet, and the Dale Jr. Foundation is cut.

covering all the taxes on this nice Corvette. Junior Motorsports announced Monday that William Byron will be piloting the number 24 Hendrick Cars.com late model entry in the Cars Tour event at Carraway Speedway on Wednesday, July the 3rd. So you'll want to watch that race live at Carraway or on flow on July the 3rd. Also, the Denny Hamlin Bracket Challenge, round four kicks off at New Hampshire. Follow your bracket at Dirty Movers. Media.com slash bracket challenge. Final four.

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool, Andrew. What else we got? Well, you know, I don't know if you saw, but last week we had a clip go pretty viral. Really? And it was about you saying that craft beers.

Oh, no. Yeah. I guess y'all like it when we go viral. Oh, that's what I live for, man. Yeah, you just broke some bad news today. No, it's a good thing. We had plenty of people comment and tweet at us, and one stuck out that I had to read, right? and this is something I think we're going to try and do more.

Had to run it up the flag stand. Not the flagpole, flag stand. Nice. Anyway, this guy replied to one of our tweets, the tweet about the craft beer and said, I was about to go on a date with a girl. We texted about where to go. And the only thing I added was,

please go somewhere where there's Bush Light. I cannot stand craft beer. He never heard from again. Just crickets. So is that acceptable? Like, is that a red flag or a green flag? Like, what are we looking at here? First date?

Yeah. Like, is that, is that, is that, worthy enough to say I won't want a date. That's too much. Yeah. You're doing too much. It was an unnecessary red flag. She's not the one. If she doesn't accept the beer you drink, then that's fine, but you don't dump that

on her before the date. Oh, that's like a third date news type of thing. You could break that into conversation during the first date. You don't lead in text conversation, like looking forward to this date, don't take my ass somewhere where there's not

a push light available. By the way, there better be bush light there or else I will be upset. She's going to go, I would be, if she was like, I don't like sushi or take me here because I like this, I'm like, damn, we ain't even got to the date yet and I'm already getting like parameters. I think that's, I don't have a problem with that. Like, you know, hey, like, where do you prefer, like, where do you prefer to go? You got that sorted out. So that's a bad example. I'm just saying, And like, you know, she's going to be like, it, they better have sweeten tea. I don't like unsweetened tea.

You know. So don't be difficult, right? Don't be difficult. Play along. I don't think that's being difficult. You're lying. I think. You're only trying to argue to argue.

I swear, I'm not. I don't think that's that big of an ask. I don't think that's that. I think the girl is out of line for not calling. Now, that might not be the reason she didn't call back fully, but. That is a reasonable. fault to have, but it's not what you share before the first

date. You wait. You do it there, maybe. You get a little groundwork laid. You got some trust. You're liking her. She's liking you. And then it's like, hey, what do you like? These are the things I like. These are things I don't like. You do that in person. What do I

have? You have a fiancé and you're married. I got nothing. We didn't scare them off with like bullying details about our first date. This is how it has to go. It's probably, I didn't surprise her with anything crazy until well after. Never mind. I'm just going to ask you to you guys.

Any would have been like totally turned off by something. Really? Yes. Any girl would. Yeah, it's my problem. I'd have to think that that would be like a, okay, that's weird. Just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, but apparently this is. I think on both sides we could have come to an agreement.

You know, he likes Bush Light, let him like Bush Light. But wait, wait to say it. You know, you don't need speaking of it. Have you ever had a natural light? I have. Would you have natural light before bushlight? No, I'd go bush light before natural light. I'd go bush before natural.

Okay. That's just me. Yeah. All right. Just curious. Hey, to end the program on a really awkward note. How else would we want it? I brought these pickles.

Hell yeah, dude. I'm holding in my hand. That's so rock and roll. I'm holding in my hand. I'm holding in my hand. Oh, it's show a tell. No question. the most delicious

pickle in the entire country. I'm not going to go world, but I'll just say there's not a better pickle than this one right here. Oh, yeah. It's, uh, he's going to edit this out. Oh, yeah, exactly.

No, no, no, no, no, I'm keeping this in. It's from a place called Butler's Orchard. Um, garlic and sea salt-dilled pickles. Butler's Orchard. These people haven't, they haven't, gave me a dime to pitch these pickles.

But they are so freaking good. I just love to share great stuff that people might enjoy. You can't order them. You have to go to the orchard. Wow. And the orchard, where is Butler's orchard? I think it's in, well, you can look it up. I think it's in Pennsylvania, Maryland, somewhere up in there.

How'd you get them? A buddy of mine brought some down, and I loved them, and every time he goes back up to visit family, up there, they get me another case. So you got a pickle guy. Yeah. They are so good. Let's see. It is, it looks like it's in, what's MD? What state is that? Maryland. Maryland.

Butler's Orchard. It's a doctor. These, the garlic and sea salt pickles, deal pickles, insane. All right. I'll have to try one. Unreal. Not spicy. Very good. There are some jalapinos in the bottle, but don't be alarmed. They don't scare me. No. So good. All right, that's the show. Hope you enjoyed it.

We'll see you next week. Check out Dirtymo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.