The Dale Jr. Download - 586 - Luke Kuechly: The Decision To Walk Away

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with former Carolina Panthers linebacker Luke Kuechly to learn about his storied career in the NFL, battles with concussions, and how he turned into of the best defensive players in the league. After showing glimmers of brilliance during his time at St. Xavier High School, Luke selected Boston College thanks to their strong academic program and Jesuit leadership. Due to a number of injuries to other players on the Eagles roster, Luke became a starting linebacker in his freshman year. He would receive the ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year award before moving to middle linebacker in his sophomore season, a move that Luke credits with opening many doors in the rest of his playing career. Luke and Dale discuss the responsibility the middle linebacker holds on the roster, as he is usually the player with the in-helmet headset relaying the play to the rest of the defensive squad.Luke also explains his process for preparing for professional games, which includes watching film and trying to absorb the other teams’ signaling system for plays in an effort to get a leg up on defensive strategy. He admits that while he had a promising freshman season in college, it wasn’t until his sophomore year that he thought the NFL would be a possibility for him. The guys chat about what the NFL combine was like for Luke and his experience on draft day when he received a call at his parents’ home to inform him that he was being selected as ninth pick for the Carolina Panthers. They also dive into Luke stepping away from playing professionally at an early age due to the effects of a series of concussions, and what events led to that difficult decision. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Welcome back for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download is the guest segment today, brought you by Ally, and we've got a cool guest. Luke Kinkley is here, NFL player. He's since retired. Let's see what Luke's been up to. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media.

All right. Ready? Ready, camera one. Hey, everybody, is Dale Jr. The ally guest segment. Luke Kinkley is here. NFL player. He's since retired.

Let's see what Luke's been up to. Starts now. All right, we're back in the Dirty Mo Media Studio, and Luke Keekeley is just outside of the door, getting ready to come in here, and I can't wait to talk to this guy. Seems like a really, really great, great guy, right? And if you followed the NFL or watched any of the Panthers,

you'll probably agree that Luke seemed like a quality individual. And I am curious for a lot of reasons to be able to talk to him. him. Obviously, you know, he's had the issues with concussions in his career. How much will he be willing to share? I see a lot of similarities in our experiences there. And so that'll be fun for me to have that conversation with him. He's also done a ton in the community here at Charlotte. He's an icon, one of the, you know, the Panthers fan favorites when he was playing, and just incredible on the field. And so I rarely get the opportunity to talk to people that impacted my community as much as

Luke has. So that'll be a lot of fun as well. Just curious to hear what his experience was like going through college. We had Greg Olson on the show in the past, and we talked about the combine and some of the unique experiences that players are exposed to. And we'll see if Luke has any funny stories or anything unique that has. happen to him. Again, just want to thank Ally for the guest segment. Every single week, they do such a great job supporting us here at Dirtymo Media and doing a lot of things throughout NASCAR and the

industry. And Allies brought us a heck of a guest today. So it should be a great conversation. Let's not wait any longer and bring Luke into the room. When did we meet? We met somewhere. We met at training camp. I don't remember what year that was at Wofford and came and spoke to the team in that auditorium. I want to tell you, man, that was like the most awkward thing I've ever done in my life. I think about that all the time. Every time I see Cam Newton, I think about that day because I remember standing in that room up there trying to talk to you guys.

And Cam, I mean, all y'all are intimidating is shit. And all you all you are just standing there going, who is this guy? I know, like, I'm trying to tell y'all stuff that maybe I've learned or I think has helped me. And I'm like, these guys know all this shit. I don't feel like I'm telling them anything they don't know. But there were some rookies in the room

that probably needed to hear it. Yeah, well, that hard part sometimes. is the guys that need to hear it aren't listening. And the guys that the guys, and the rest of the guys just, they love hearing it from somebody else that is in the same kind of situation as we are. That was the most intimidating thing. I mean, I'm not a big fan of talking to crowds or getting in front of a big group of people, but I do it quite a bit sometimes.

But talking to an NFL roster, this is before cut down. So, I mean, there was like 83 or so guys in that room. and that are in the middle of training camp and the grind of all that. That was intimidating as hell. But what was fun was, I'm standing there, I'm trying to read Cam and a couple of guys are sitting near him. They're kind of, they're like in this little group. And I'm trying to read them whether they're digging this or not or they're liking what's

going on. I couldn't really tell. And then when everybody got up, they'd come over and said, hey, and it was, you could tell was, you know, good dude, happy I was there, you know, glad I came or whatever, you know, I felt like I was, that made me feel a little bit better. But, and it was, it was something, man, I'll never forget that day. I couldn't believe that I got asked to come over there and do that. And I was like, hell yeah, I'll do that. And then when I got there, I was like, what hell hell if I got myself into you, man? You get there and you're like, do I want to do this?

Right, yeah. Because everybody in there is like freaking 6-5 and jacked and. Well, the hard part for you is that the first, the guy that sits in the first, row is Cam. Yes. And he's gigantic. Yeah. And he had his huge hat with his hair and he's just until you see him, you don't realize how big he is. It changes his room when he walks into it. Oh yeah. Yeah, he's one of those guys. Yeah. But man, that was fun. I, um, so you're 33 years old. All right. Um, you're a, uh, where you live locally? I live in Charlotte. Yeah. Just right in South Park. So where were you born? Cincinnati, Ohio. Why do you still live here?

Why did you not go back home? I think, so I got done playing in 2019. I worked with the team in 2020. I wasn't ready to be done with the Carolina Panthers. So I was like, hey, I need another year. And then I took a year completely off. And I said, hey, you know what? I love to hunt.

I love to fish. Fall is the best time to do that. I haven't had a fall off since I was in fourth grade. I'm just going to do it here. It's easy. And then that would have been 21. So 22, I started doing the radio with the Panthers. and I started coaching a grade school football team with Olson. And it just, I just love it here.

All my networks here, all my people are here. It's easy to get back and forth to Cincinnati. And I just think Charlotte's a beautiful place. Yeah. So Boston College is where you went to college, right? So how do you, I want to know about your decision to choose Boston College. What goes into, what was that process like for you? So my thought process going to college is like, all right, I'm going to get an opportunity to go play college football. I'm going to kind of, you have an ability to pick a little bit. But also, I wanted to go to a school that I couldn't get into without football. Like I was a fine student.

I wasn't good. I wasn't a bad student. I wasn't a good student. I was kind of right in the middle. I would have never gotten in the Boston College. I looked at Stanford. I looked at Virginia. I looked at Duke.

Those are my final four. None of those schools, they would have looked at my resume and thrown in the trash. So I was like, hey, this is going to be a good. good opportunity. So that was number one. That's how I got to that four. The second thing that was really big was I went to a Jesuit high school. I went to Catholic school growing up, Jesuit high school. Boston College is a Jesuit school as well. What does that mean? It's an order of priests, Jesuit priests. So within Catholicism, there's different types of priests. And I went to a Jesuit high school, Jesuit college. So the same kind of,

I don't know if culture is the right word, but that kind of stuff was at Boston College as well. and I really liked it at St. Xavier, my high school. Another one of the biggest things was, when I was being recruited, there were kids from my high school at Boston College. So the head coach of the time, Tom O'Brien, was a St. Xavier alum. He went to Boston College, started pooling kids at a Boston call, or at a St. Xavier, to go to Boston College. So there was, I don't know, we've had a kid there for probably, you know,

25 years in a row. I think this might be the first year. In 25 years, we haven't had a kid from my high school play football Boston College. And the kids, Alex Albright was three years older than me, and then a guy, Nick Larkin, was on his way out when I was getting recruited. Both team captains, both had successful careers at Boston College. And I talked to Alex, the guy that was two, three years older than me. And I was like, hey, what do you think? And nothing but good things to say.

And he said, look, if you come here, I promise, I'll take care of you. And I was like, great. And his parents did the same thing. So it was kind of a combination of really good academic school. the Jesuit aspect was really important. And then we had kids from my high school that went on to Boston College and had tons of success.

Those were the three big factors to me for reasons why I went to Boston College. When you're going to enroll in college, how realistic is the NFL dream at that point? In my mind, zero. Zero? Zero. I mean, it's in the back of your mind. But I remember showing up to Boston College

and everyone was big, which is normal. And then in the summer, when we showed up, we showed up at the end of June. So we had one summer session to do classroom work. You get ahead in school. You could take two or three classes. That way school is easier during the year. And we'd work out in the mornings before all the older guys. Like we worked out early, early, and then as you got older, you got later times. And I remember we finished our workout. We were downstairs all the freshmen, took showers, did our thing and I had to go back upstairs to the weight room. And I walked into the wait room and I was like, oh my gosh, these guys are so powerful and strong and the speed at which the bar

moved. They were squatting. I remember this today. I walked in the wait room. The guy in the first rack was a defensive lineman named Thomas Claiborne. Big, strong, black guy, athletic, like bendy, had really good hip mobility, and they were chain squatting. So they had these big massive 25 pound chains. They had like three or four of them each side. And he had a bunch of weight on the bar. And he was so explosive out of the hole.

And I was like, I was like, I walked downstairs and my boys, I'm like, dude, we are in trouble. We are in trouble. We're not anywhere near what these guys can do. Yeah. And so what's that? I mean, talk about that process of, of changing and improving and working hard and how natural is that?

I think it's either, you know, sink or swim to a certain extent. So I didn't have a chance to redshirt. I would have loved, that was my plan going in. Like, hey, I'm going to redshirt. You know what a redshirt is, right? Yes. Yeah. So I was like, hey, I'm going to go in.

We're going to pry red shirt. We get a chance to kind of get our feet wet and feel it out. But I get to school in going in at our linebacker position, Mark Hurslick was a linebacker stud. He came back for a senior year. If he would have stayed, he would have been a first round pick for sure. Spring ball comes around. His back and his leg start bugging him, cancer.

Ewing's sarcoma cancer in his leg. So he obviously misses the year. He's fine. He ended up playing 10 years in the league. He's fine. Mike McLaughlin was our starting Mike Backer. He was coming off in Achilles. They had another guy that they wanted to play Mike Backer.

during training camp and get used to it. And then Will Thompson was another guy. And then we had another guy that was ahead of me. So there was like seven or eight guys ahead of me. So Max's out, hers looks out. The guy they wanted to play inside backer wasn't playing very well in training camp. The other guy Will Thompson goes in.

This is like a week or two in the training camp. Hurt your shoulder. And then two weeks before the season starts, one of the guys fails a drug test. So I remember being in training camp with they had like two practices kind of like the young guys in like the jv and then the older guys and it was an inside run drill it's all inside tackle to tackle run plays it's super physical downhill power football and we were doing our version of it and they were doing their version and I remember sitting there

I see will Thompson walk off to the side I'm like that sucks and then I just remember they called my name and had me come over and they're like all right get in there and I got my teeth kicked in. It sucked. And it's like you just kind of like figure it out and you get bigger and stronger as you get old. I mean, I went in there. I was 18 years old. Yeah. Playing against guys that are 22, 23. You just, you get your teeth kicked in and you figure out how bad you want to do it. And then once you say, hey, I don't care, I'm going to find a way to get better than you're all right. Yeah. I know that you were regarded as a three star athlete, right? And so where, help me, this is as a fan of NCAA 25.

Me and my friends are in a big online dynasty. And so when you're when you read your you're young, impressionable and when you read someone's opinion of you, right?

Your weaknesses, your strengths. I don't know if you've really paid much attention in that stuff, but when you get sort of ranked as a three star, what is your reaction? I thought, you know, hey, it's cool like I'm on these websites I've got you know I'm being recruited you think it's awesome and then you also understand I understood why I wasn't any more than a three you know I was I started getting

recruited after my junior year I weighed I played linebacker way 203 pounds um I wasn't super fast and we didn't that was so being a three star I was like this is great because you look around and when I was a lot of guys, I mean, it's different now, but when I was coming out, you start kind of getting recruited as end of your freshman year, into your sophomore year, and some of these guys are grown men by the time they're 7, 16 years old, and they're 6, 3, 2, 30, you know, grown men versus me. I was just like a little skinny high school kid that played outside backer, and I wasn't the best kid on my team. We, my junior year, we were probably one or two team in the nation. And off that team, there was like,

20 guys that played college football. And I was just a little skinny junior, the underclassman that found his way onto the field. And everyone that came to look at guys were looking at everybody else. So it was cool for me. I thought it was great. Yeah. I was wondering that, you know, considering the career you had and how dynamic you were as an NFL player, you know, I guess there are there a lot of three-star, two-star, one-star guys that turn out to be completely the opposite of what people expected or characterized them as coming out of high school, right? We kind of have those in racing where, you know, you've got guys that you don't think have all

the tools or all the instincts or intuition and they develop and become incredible, given the right opportunity and the right connection. You were named ACC defensive rookie of the year. You moved to middle linebacker in your sophomore year. what goes into that decision that obviously was a big you know probably insignificant in the moment maybe but uh ended up being incredible for you going forward best thing for me so nothing my nothing that i said went into it it was it was they came to me and said hey we need you to slide inside and play inside backer and i remember the first time they told me that i was like i don't know

like i'm comfortable at will i like being out here i mean i'll try it for training or for spring ball and they were like like I'm glad you said that you're going to try it because you don't really have a choice like you're going to move in here and then we have somebody else that can play that will spot for you I was like all right great so I moved in and the first couple weeks of you know spring ball's like like it looks different like what you look at your reeds how everything comes to the line scrimmage is very different but then as time went on I was like this is this is where I need to be yeah and I think it was probably the best thing for me that they moved me inside my linebacker coach in college was fantastic. He was awesome and he was just like,

hey, you're going to move there. And he's like, I promise you're going to like it. He's like, just trust me. I said, all right, great. So I moved in and I just kind of said, hey, you know what, I trust my coach. He knows what's best for me in this team. I'm just going to try my best at this spot for spring ball and kind of see where it puts me. And then I'm a Mike backer. I'm not a Will. I'm not a Sam. If I played Will. Tell me the difference. So a Sam backer is a bigger, heavier guy, taller, longer, like a hybrid between a defensive

end and a linebacker. So I wasn't, number one, I'm not big enough. The Willbacker was like Thomas Davis, like rangy, athletic, fast, can cover guys in space, can match up on tight ends, backs out of the backfield. And that was never my strength being in space. I hate space. Space scares me. I don't want anything to do with it. So them moving me in was super helpful for me in college and then getting to the NFL. Like Will linebackers, I would have gotten dusted at Will. That's just not where I need to be. What is the mic responsible for?

He sets the front, communicator, getting everybody lined up. That's something that fascinates me. So when I'm watching a football game and I see the linebackers kind of feel general, the guy that's kind of telling everybody what their responsibility is or giving, you know, audibles or anything like that on the field, you know, that one player is designated with that role, right? And it's everybody's, everybody on the defense is understanding that that's, that's going to be the man in charge when you're on the field. Am I correct? Yeah, so the mic backer is typically a guy, especially in the NFL, that has a communication device in his helmet. Same thing that basically the quarterback of the defense. Yeah. And so tell me some of the things that you're, you know, I mean,

I mean, it's probably hard to put it into concise sentence. But tell me what, like, as soon as you're breaking the huddle or as soon as you're starting to get set up on the line or walking to position, what is the things that are going through your mind? Yeah, so play ends, previous play ends, and then right away, headset starts turning on. So the coach is talking to me about, you know, the previous play. Is it a head coach?

It can be whoever it wants to be. So like Andy Reid, Andy Reid probably talks of Patrick Mahomes. Damn. That's cool. Linebacker coach talked to me. So de-coordinator calls the play, linebacker coach, here's the play, relays it to me. So I get that in my helmet. The headset cuts off at 15 seconds on the play clock.

Really? And that's a league rule. League rule. How clear is the information? It's like this. Most of the time, it's pretty daggone good. Yeah. It's kind of FME, if that makes sense.

So it's not as clear as this, but it's kind of, FME. But he can talk to you, Clear's day, talks on his little headset. So they break the huddle. I have the play call on my here. I got to relay it to so usually what I would do is T.D. Thomas would always be right next to me. First guy tell us Thomas. Then I tell the big guys in front

of us and then Thomas and I in combination tell the guys behind us. So usually how we were set up, we had four D linemen, we had Thomas and I and then a nickel back and then four DVs. So between Thomas and I we kind of tell everybody. They break the huddle depending on a lot of what we did is where is the tight end.

Wherever the tight end is dictates where our big guys line up in front of us. Once our big guys are lined up in front of us, if it's a pressure, if we got a blitz coming, we got to designate which side the blitz is. So it could be a tight end side blitz. It could be a non-tight-in side blitz. It could be a field blitz. It could be to the nickel. So all that stuff.

And then... So if I could ask, so you're giving the per... you're giving the individual that's going to be required, you know, responsible for the blitz, his information. Yeah, so like an example would be, like we had a defense called Toby Snake 9. Toby was the front. So that's talking to the defensive line. Toby is how those guys line up.

Snake is the pressure. So that designates who's coming and who's blitzing. It also designates and determines what the defensive linemen do when the ball gets snapped, where they move, where they go to, and then nine is the coverage. So everybody just takes a piece of that and does what they need with it. So the big guys, hey, Toby Snake 9, he's like, all right, if it's an overfront, I'm lined up to the left, the blitz is coming off the left side, boom, I'm an inside charge, I'm a double pirate. Yeah.

Like, boom, they got that. And then the guys in the back end, Thomas and I, we tell, like, it's like, it'd be like close left. That's how we align the front to the tight end. You close the front. It's just the terminology of these. Sure. to the tight end, and then we'd say, Liz is the pressure side. He's coming off that side, and then you've got to have a guy come down and cover where the

blitzer was. So if the blitzers lined up on a receiver, we need somebody to come down and cover that receiver. So it would be like Toby Snake 9, close left Liz with a lukeal. And the safety now comes down and sits over the top of that new receiver. Yeah. And all this information is just verbally communicated to the team around you. all the while the offense is lining up for the play that they're going to run.

How, I mean, are all of the teams, all the teams speaking their own individual language? Oh, yeah. Right. So, and so if you call that play, even, you know, the offense may hear some of the verbiage. They don't know what you're talking about. But as the game goes on, are you picking up on some of the things they're using verbiage-wise? But they also, is it become a bit of a gamesmanship in terms of like, all right, we saw, we heard what you said, we saw what you did.

Now that's in memory going forward and the game plan against that. Yeah. So what I used to do, I'm sure they did it, they did it with us, but you get the tape that we watch, it's called the All-22 tape. It's a high end zone. So obviously from the end zone and then a high sideline. So from that, I can get signals. Yeah.

So like if a quarterback's like signal in a route and I see it, I'm like, I'll write that down during the game or during the week for prep. Yep. And then also if I see the quarterback get close to the line of scrimmage and change a play, then I can go to the TV copy. And then I sometimes I can pick it up on the mic. So the centers and the officials wear microphones that that's how you can hear stuff on the field. So boom, if I see a signal, I'll write it down and then you got to confirm it two or three times and make sure. sure it's right. But then if I hear, if I get, if I see the quarterback at the line of scrimmage and I see him make an adjustment, I'll look at the TV copy and I'll write that down.

So then when the game comes around and he's making adjustments, I'll get up there as close as I can and listen. And then I can hear like, hey, is it a familiar word? But a lot of stuff in the NFL is like Roger, like Rip Liz, Larry Roger, Lou Rose, Lake and, and, and, and stuff like that so it's right and left. Or it's like you could, some people get smart and they'll go like tiger and animal. Yeah. So tiger is, R is to the right animal, be to the left. Or we had some, we had a guy go, this is a good one, salt and pepper.

So if Thomas and I were both in the A gap in a pressure look, they did salt and pepper. So the first time they did it, they went pepper and they went. so they went the opposite direction. And then I was like, okay, maybe it's opposite. So we get back in there again. He says pepper again, and now he goes to the right. I'm like, I'm confused. So I come to the sideline and my Titi, I don't know what's going on.

They're saying salt and pepper. They're sliding the wrong way. What, like, what do you think it is? He's like, hey, he's like, salt. What color is salt? I was like, I don't know, salt's white. He's like, what color is pepper? So pepper's black.

So he's like, that's how they were. dictating where they were sliding the offensive line. So if I was, if I'm playing offensive line and I'm the center and this is this is Thomas and this is me and I want to slide here. I just say salt. Yeah. Because I'm the white guy. Yeah. And then if they want to go to Thomas, it's pepper. Yeah. So like you start, the more that stuff you can pick up, the easier it is because if I understand like, all right, if they're going split protection, which means like like if it's, you know, there's five offense alignment and they go to the right, split protection means center guard tackle. And then

then on the other side would be guard tackle. So that's split pro. And then, you know, once I know that, if I understand based on that, say this is like a like a, like a, a, a, a rake call. On rake, it's split protection. If I understand that, now I can go to the sideline and be like, hey, on our next pressure, our next inside pressure, if they rake it, we're going to, our, our answer is we're going to wrap a guy to the backside, we're going to get an unblocked player, or we're going to get a big guy on a running back. So that's what we tried to do is I'm going to get in there, I'm going to gather as much information pre-game during the week of prep as I can. And then when the game rolls around, I'm still always trying to pick up new stuff that's

going to help us in big situations. Was that unique as a player to study the film that much? I mean, is every player on the team? I know there's a lot of meetings. Everybody's in those conversations, but you're doing a lot of extra work yourself. Do you see players have different sort of approaches, I guess, to preparing for a game and some be successful even without all of that, like, intel? Oh, yeah.

I think there's, I think some guys, they just watch a little bit, get a feel for what they're doing, and then they're great players. But I couldn't do that. I wasn't a good enough athlete to just go out there and, like, play. Like, I needed to have an advantage, and I needed to have a feel for, what was going on and it honestly more than anything it calms me down like yeah over preparing you feel more confident yeah and i would get into the game and it gave me more stuff to think about which was helpful for me why is that i i liked to talk on the field and i like to think on the field because

if not i was just talking and communicating help call me down it kind of took me away from not worrying. It just kept my mind active. And if I was in the game and I just had a line up and not talk and play, I would have really struggled. It just calmed me down. And Thomas was great with that and we were a good combo. Yeah. So going back to your college career, man, I want to know when you said the NFL dream was kind of not genuinely in the picture when you started your college career, but at what point do you start to, you know, I imagine that, you know, I never felt, I never felt like, man, I could do this until I got out there in one in the Cup series. You know, when I was racing in the lower series, the Xfinity Series, which is kind of like our

college, I never thought I could make it in Cup until I got there and won there, right? So how does that happen for you? is I'm sure people are pumping you full of all great comments and man you can do this you got what it takes you know if you just keep going down this path you're going you're going to get a chance but when it when did it finally start to make sense to you when did it feel like it was a real possibility um so I ended up playing a lot my freshman year had a great season and then going into my sophomore year they moved me to inside backer so I was like man like see what I'm how this goes and I had another good season and I was like you know what like I got a chance

because you kind of look around and you see guys that you played against and that you had success playing against and then they go get drafted so like my rookie my freshman year we played at Clemson and C.J. Spiller was a running back stud. Awesome. Stud. And I remember I like I got him on the ground a couple of times. I mean a couple times he just ran away from me and made me a miss. and, you know, everything. But, and then he gets drafted, you know, in the first round by, I forget who it was, but Buffalo, maybe. Buffalo, yeah.

I think he was a top 10 pick. Yeah. And I just mean being like, okay, like, all right, that's what plays in the NFL. And then your sophomore year, kind of same thing. You start having some more success. And then going into my junior year, I was like, hey, this is like, this is real. Like, I need to put everything I got into this and see where it puts me, you know, it's, But it was a lot like you, though, where, like, you got to prove to yourself that you can do it.

And everybody, you know, tells you can do it, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, but you're like, I mean, yeah, like, that's what you're going to tell me. But I got to prove to myself that I can do it. And I think that just comes by, like you said, you've got to go do it. And until you do it, you don't really know. Yeah. When you're watching, so, you know, you mentioned in your rookie year watching all of the players in front of you on the depth chart

have all these injuries and issues I imagine my question is during your career especially during your college career especially when you start to really think you might get a chance to play in the NFL did you ever

have injury concerns and I imagine no because you're young and naive and you think you're invincible but I wonder like as a player how what can you do your playing style and the position you play is aggressive right and how can you protect yourself your knees you're just the shoulders and everything that gets beat up all the time how can you if you can at all adjust your playing style to to last and to be there for every game, right?

Yeah, I think there's two things that pop into my head immediately, and one of them is how well you train? How will you treat the off-season? Because, you know, if you wait until, you know, July to start getting in shape for the season, you're, that's how, that's how I would gotten hurt by not being strong and powerful and explosive and at top speed. So I took, I took off-season training very seriously. It was like my job. Like you wake up. My whole number one goal for the day is to have a great training session and make sure that I'm eating correctly, recovering. And then boom, I got to make sure I can do it again the next day.

So I think that's a huge thing that was very beneficial to me. And I was very fortunate, especially when I got in the NFL, I worked out with Greg every offseason. And it was literally the best thing. He took me under his wing. He showed me this is how we're going to speed train. This is going to be our split. This is how we're going to strength train and how we're going to link our field work with our weight room. And I think that was a huge reason for success for me and staying as healthy as I did was

I took the training super seriously in the offseason. It was important to me. It was part of my job. And quite frankly, loved it. So I think, I think that's number one. I think number two is playing at full speed. You got to play full speed. If you play cautious, you can get yourself in trouble.

You can get yourself hurt. I mean, sure, the same thing with you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm the aggressor. Yeah, yeah. I'm the aggressor. Yeah. When we race at these restrict plate racetracks, Dayton and Talladega, I always had really good success there.

And when I ran my best, I raced without, you know, any fear or concern or any time I tried to, like, be careful. I ended up wrecking and finding myself in terrible situations. And if I just made choices and instinctually just did what I was supposed to do and be selfish a bit, you know, race hard, play hard. I had more success that way. I asked that question because there are the, let's just focus strictly on the lower body. Okay. Like knees and things like that. And so I've been a fan of the NFL for most of my life and injuries have always been a part of the game.

But as players learned how to train, exactly like you talked about, they got faster, they got better, they got stronger. The hits became harder. The cuts and everything that you're asking your body to do. Everything gets better, stronger, muscles and all those things. One thing that doesn't get stronger are tendons and ligaments and all that those. So, and not, you know, so you have the, there was sort of this evolution of the body itself being, being, putting itself through situations that parts of the body,

aren't built to do. And then you have to worry about the actual quality of the field, you know, cleats and all these different things play a role in trying to be able to, you know, make sure you get to the end of the year, right? Unscathed. And I remember, I guess, I don't know, for me as a fan, it felt like as time has went on, and I'm talking since like 1980, like for many, many decades, lower leg injuries seem to sort of trend upward

and seem to be more of a possibility, right, for a player. I don't know if that's how you felt or how you see it, but you can train hard and put yourself in great position, but there's also all those variables that are out of your control, right? I mean, I'm a fan of Washington, have been my whole life, and we had a little spell there, where we had a bad field. And, you know, the webbing in the sod and all those things, catching cleats.

And I'm thinking, man, as a player, that must have been difficult, frustrating. But you don't have much of a choice in controlling some of those variables. They're out of your control. So how do you manage that? I think so lower body injuries, I think a lot of it, is training. I think when you look at, you know, guys that come in the training camp, there's always tons of injuries right at the beginning of the training camp.

Because when guys don't train and don't load their body and train to a certain degree, when they get leaned on or when they finally hit something full speed and they put their foot in the ground, their body's not used to it. So you have to train in the offseason and load those joints and do unpredictable things and make your neuro pathways strong just like your body. Like if I curl a million pounds and I'm super strong, but then I put my arm in a weird position or it gets out wide and it's in an unusual area, I'm not strong.

So I think the same thing happens. When you look at injuries in the NFL at the start of training camp, that's the highest they really ever are. And a lot of it is not full contact take to the ground. Lower body injuries happen a lot in training camp. And then I think moving on to the second. part of the question, I just think you can't think about it. You know, I want to play, I want to practice, I want to play every game on grass, on nice grass. And that's what I want to do. I think it's the,

it's the best for your body. But unfortunately, NFL, it's just not the situation. So you just got to, you got to go play. You just have to. What are some of the tougher, and I don't mean more unpredictable, dangerous. I'm not asking that question. But like, you know, you know, you know, you're turf and some of, what is, what are some of the tougher, harder surfaces in the league to play on? Oh, man. Like is there, can you, could, in terms of contact to the ground, can you really tell a difference? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Right? And so, and so, you know, they, they have crazy technology in terms of things they put underneath a turf field. and they do that with basketball courts and all kinds of things. But, you know, what are some of the fields where you're like, holy crap, this is hard? This is hard. I guess is it, I know I'm running in circles, but like Green Bay on a cold, cold, frozen day.

Okay, so that's a good, green bay is a very interesting field because they heat it. Oh, yeah. They heat it. So then it's not hard. It gets a little bit soft. So then you've got to change your cleats in order to wear that. What do you do? I wear.

So there's molded cleats, which are just plastic bottoms. And then there's a same cleat that has a different plate on the bottom that has screwing cleats. So you change the length? I hate screwing cleats and never wore them. So when you play in Green Bay, you have to just get a really good feel of like, I need to keep my legs underneath me. I need to make sure that when I'm cutting, like, I'm really, I'm really, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, thoughtful about where I put my foot. So that's a, it's a softer field. It looks beautiful for most the game. It's good. But then as the game goes on, it starts to get a little slick. So it's just

something. Why did you not like screw-in cleats? They're not comfortable. Why? I just, the soul itself is too firm. The plate feels different. How it does it affects the soul? It does a little bit, but how you put your foot in the ground, I mean, there's seven points of contact on a screw-in. and there's... I assume that, you know, because every field's so different, you would have such, you know, different links. I guess in molded cleats, you can get different links, no? No, molded, they all come out the same.

So I wore the same model cleat my whole career. And, you know, you think about it, but most these fields are in great shape, but it's like, all right, you know, we're going to go plan a field that's Bermuda. And then next week, we're going to plan a field that's rye. as the season progresses, Bermuda dies, then they overseed and it's rye.

And then next week you might go play, you know, an indoor turf field in New Orleans. And then the following week, you're going to go play outside at MetLife in New York. And they're all different. Yeah. They're all different, especially, you know, the turf, there's a million turf manufacturers

and the fill and the rubber and the sand and the length of the turf. It's all very different. But to tell you the truth, once the ball gets snapped, you forget about it. You just playing ball. And it's hard. The turf is certainly harder than grass.

Gotcha. Did you, what's the coldest game you played him? We played, so when the Vikings tore down their old stadium and they were building the new one, they had to play outside for a year or two at the University of Minnesota. And we played there, it was, I don't know when it was, December, end of November. And it was like, it was like one degree. Yeah. It was cold.

It was cold, cold, cold. That sucked. Do you rather, are you, when you're in that situation, or you'd rather be on the field because you're not? No, it's way warmer on the bench. Really? The benches, all the benches, so when you look at. Stick your leg in those heaters?

Yeah, so once, it'll probably start happening soon. Once the Panthers put those white benches out there, those big ones, they can heat those. Yeah. And so they're heated, and they're, like, heated, like they are warm. Yeah. And then when it gets really cold, you go get a jacket.

and you put a beanie on and you are great you're great you're like it's like sitting by a campfire and then you get on the field and you're like damn it's freaking cold yes it's freaking cold yeah so when you're do you when you know you're going to play a game like that like how do you make an effort to get outside sooner no no no no so stay in a locker room longer so the only thing I would change is what I would wear so on a typical game I just wore socks and my pants and my pants pants in like a dry fit like short sleep dry fit when you play those cold games i'm going to put tights on i'm going to wear like like tights um one pair of socks and then i'm going to i'm going to switch from like a dry fit cut off to like a thermal like a thermal cut off with like a little

turtlene and then the key is is vaseline and they had this stuff called warm skin so it was like uh everybody knows what vaseline is but you take this warm skin and it came in like a little jar yeah i don't know what was in it, but it was like, think kind of icy hot. I mean, sure you've used that. Sure. And we would take it, and I saw the older guys do this, they put it in like a little paper Gatorade cup and mix it up and then just cover your whole torso. Really? Whole torso. And then you put that thermal over the top. And then it's like, it's like blubber. It just keeps you warm. But then, I mean, you can't really put it on your arms. But like, you know, you could get it to like here. Yeah.

And then you go out in the wind and just like suck the, it just suck the life out of and you're like, I better put some more on. But once you had it on your shirt underneath, it like, it doesn't make you like warm. It's like wearing a wetsuit. Yeah, but it's better than not wearing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The wind's the worst part. If you can avoid the wind, you're usually okay. Yeah. It's like hunting's the same way. This may be my favorite time of the NASCAR season. It's when the on-track drama starts to ramp up and each driver fights harder and harder.

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yourself, but the combine feels, you know, like you're stripped away, you're vulnerable. It's like livestock. Yes, yes, right? Yeah, yeah, you're stripped away from any kind of like personal protections and comforts. And you're placed down in that arena and you're supposed to get it done. And you've got the competition of all the other players that are there from all the other schools. You don't know, know these guys, right? And so there's, you know, you're trying to shine and, but have a great experience.

It's the combine, right? You're, I think if you're a champion, I imagine you go in there going, what a hell of an opportunity for me, right? Yeah. This is my chance, right? And so how was your experience? What shocked you? What was, what was something to happen you didn't expect? So it's, it was.

You hear about the interviews, some of them going kind of sideways and being weird and. So the combine is, so the last, I don't, they might have switched it up, but when we got, when I was there, the, the on-field stuff was the last day, the last day you're there. So you're there for, you know, three or four days. Yeah. So for me, it was, um, interviews, I wasn't super concerned. I was nervous for them. But I was like, as long as I go in there and just answer the questions, I'm good, I'm clean. I haven't, nothing, I haven't gotten in trouble. You know, I'm, like, the, like, They can't really do anything to me there. I was worried about how much I was going to weigh, and I was worried about how fast I was going to run. You wanted to weigh more. It wanted the way more. So you get there, they do medical,

and the medicals all beforehand, and I had some stuff in my knees and my elbow when I was at college. So I tore the UCL in my left elbow, my junior year of college, and that's like the Tommy John ones. But since I'm not a thrower, and I'm not left-handed, I don't have to get it fixed. So I tore that.

Never got it fixed. Never, and yeah, just kind of, you don't need it. So you go, this is like the first two days, and then I think we benched on, like, day three or whatever. So you go see these doctors, and they're like, they're, like, messing with it, and you can't tell them it hurts, but, like, they're moving it. They know exactly how to get it, and you're like, does that hurt? I'm like, no, but, like, yeah.

And so then you leave and you're like, damn, like, my elbow kind of hurts. and now I got to go bench. Oh. And then the same thing, like, they were looking at my knees. But I had, and then I remember I woke up the next day. I'm like, man, my knee is like sore now because they were jerking it around. Jeez. So you got that going on in your head.

But the number one thing was like weigh-ins. So you go in and I remember we went as a whole linebacker group. I was just like 20 years old trying to figure it out. I was like, I need a way over 240. But there was no scale. So I didn't, excuse me, I didn't know how much I. I was gonna weigh because I couldn't weigh that morning. So then I get there and it's probably 10.30 in the morning.

They put us in like a room. It's probably like this big and there's like 40 of us in there. And so I'm just sitting there and I'm like, this sucks. I have a water bottle and I'm chugging, chugging water. Like I don't know how much I weigh, but I'm gonna drink as much water as I can. And the whole place is filled with empty water bottles from like the group before weighing in.

And I'm standing there. and I'm looking around and there's like a couple of these dudes are just absolutely like diesel rockets. And they brought bands and they're doing curls and tricep extensions and like band pool parts and like getting a pump before they go up on stage. And I'm just sitting in the corner. I'm like, well, this is not going great. So they make you, you're just in your underwear. Yeah. In a pair of compression shorts.

You walk up on this stage and it's like a three-sided stage. And it's, you know, you walk up from here and then there's. stand, stand, stands. All the coaches and the NFL scouts are there, and you walk up on the stage, and they're like linebacker number 31, Luke Keekley, Boston College. And you have to walk up there

and stand on the scale, and then they yell it out. And I remember getting on the scale and just slowly watching it tick up, tick up, tick up, tick up, and I was like, yes. And it got to like 239, 240, 242 and a half.

And I was like, thank God, I weighed over 240. Yeah. Because that was kind of the cut. off. Really? So that, I mean, it was awesome. Like, you, you grow up and I always loved watching the combine, but the only thing you really ever get to see is the on-field stuff. So for me, I was so excited to go, I wanted the way in, I wanted the bench, I wanted to go talk to all the teams, I wanted to go do the medical stuff. So you bench, and then that night you go, you have meetings. So you have, there's

like formal meetings, and then there's informal meetings. So the formal meetings are, you get like a card and teams request to meet with you. And they're every, they start every 15 minutes. So one ends at, you know, 8 o'clock at night. The next one starts at 8.15. So you just go and it's in a huge atrium in a hotel. So imagine this is the atrium. There's like couches and stuff in the middle.

And then it's all surrounded by hotel rooms. So like rooms, rooms, rooms. Each team has their own room. So you have this card and you go into a meeting room. and they're all set up differently. They're just in like little normal hotel rooms. Some teams have all the beds taken out in a camera set up to film. Some teams, it's just like three coaches in the GM.

Some teams, like the Baltimore Ravens, they had kind of like 15 people on there. And I remember before the combine, I went through every team I wrote down, head coach, defensive coordinator, linebacker coach, and GM. And then before I would go to the meeting, I'd be like, all right, we're going to go see the Carolina Panthers, head coach is Ron Rivera, the defense coordinator, Sean McDermott, the lineback coach is Warren Beuling, and the GM is Marty Herney.

Boom. So then I go in there and I kind of like knew who everybody was. I walked into the Baltimore Ravens room, and there was like 20 people. Damn. And I walked in and I was so nervous, so nervous. And for whatever reason, I wore like a pair of khakis. and a collared shirt. And I was back when I wore glasses

and I had like an afro, like long curly hair. And I walked in there and I was like the only guy in the whole room with everyone I just had sweats on. And I walked in and John Harbaugh is like, hey, I'm John Harbaugh.

This is so and so, so and so. Here's our GM. And then he introduced everybody in the room. And then he looked back at me. He's like, who's that? Oh, shit. And I was like, I was like, I'm sorry, Coach. I'm kind of nervous.

I don't really know. He's like, that's fine. And they get you up there. And they're all very similar in the sense of, I think they want to see you. They want to know what your personality is. They want to know how much football you know. And I think they just want to feel your, like, what kind of presence do you have? But it was, so those are the formulas.

And the informals, they have this area called the train station. It's a huge open banquet room. and each team has a table. So if you're the Carolina Panthers, I walk in there and somebody comes and grabs you. So like you literally walk into the train station, each team has like a runner, and they come and grab you,

they sit you down, and the coach can talk to you as long as they want. So he's like, all right, hey, so in this situation, this is a formation where should you align in your cover three defense? And you kind of got to like there and explain to them why.

and those are more of them of just another set of eyes to get on you. Say I'm talking with you. Somebody might come up to me, tap me on the shoulder and they'd be like, hey, we're with the Seattle Seahawks. When you get done talking with these guys, like we're over there on that table.

Yeah. So then you go from them, you get done with that, and you run over to their table. And it's just like constant like this. And then you look at your clock and like, dang, it's like 11 o'clock. I got to get up tomorrow at 7 in the morning and go run.

So then you just have to excuse yourself out of there. But the medical stuff was fascinating. They are very thorough. They do a great job. And like you walk into a room, they like present you. Somebody presents you. So you walk into the room very similar to when you get weighed in. And they're like, hey, Lou Keekely, linebacker number so-and-so at a Boston college.

Here are his injuries in high school. They put, or I'm sorry, college, they put all your stuff up on like. a board x-rays MRIs so these all these doctors can see it yeah and it's fascinating to me and it's super efficient like you get up there like hey you know he had a PRP injection in both knees he tore his UCL you know he's got flat feet and he's 100% better he's going to bench and he's going to be a full participant in the on-field session of the combine and you're like and anybody have questions a couple guys are raised raise their hand, they can come up and talk to you and, you know, put their hands on you if they

need to and check things out. But they're very efficient. It was a fantastic experience. Damn. Well, that's pretty cool, man. I, you know, I kind of always wondered, you know, we do just see the on-field side of it, and it looks like a kind of a tense, high-pressure situation, especially, you know, when players are running the 40-yard dash, there's a bunch of press and media around numbers and who does what and who's active in the own field and who's chosen not to be. Who's going to do their pro day? And that's where you'll get to see what they can do.

And I've always wondered like when somebody says, hey, I'm not going to, I'm not going to participate in the combine, but I'm going to do this pro day. It sounds like when I hear that, I don't want to do it here. I'm going to go over here where I'm insulated or I'm in an environment that I feel I can control for a better outcome. Is that the way it is or is, why would, you know, why would a player want to have you, you know, the scout come seem at as pro day and avoid the Combine Homefield stuff? I think some of it could be how, how did their training go? You know, say I started training in June and beginning, like really early January. Combines went middle of February. So I had a

good, at a really good time that just get ready to go. But like think about, I think Alabama won the national championship that year. So I was done playing football at Thanksgiving and I had been training at Boston College offseason training. No hits kind of getting recovered. And then I go to Florida for, you know, six, eight weeks. And I'm like every, all day, every day train. Versus like Donta High Tower was a linebacker for Alabama. I don't remember if he ran at the combine, But think about he gets done New Year's bowl game and, you know, early, mid, like the first or second week in January. He's played, you know, 14, 15 games. He's beat up.

He gets to the combine. And he's like, I'm just not ready to run. Like, I am just not ready. Yeah. And so, like, I get that. I think there's certain guys that are injured that don't aren't at full speed. And then also I think it's a little bit of a beat down. You don't get, you know, you don't get.

your normal training cycle once you get to the con because it's on whatever it is day three or day four you're not eating normal you're not sleeping normal you're not doing your normal training mobility all that stuff so I think maybe some guys just aren't comfortable running in that situation and putting something bad on tape but I was just so excited like I'm ready like what did you want to run I run at the run in the four-fives what did you run I ran four five so actually I had to run three times usually run twice. I ran like 4-5-0, and then on the second one that I ran,

we had probably five or six groups run in front of us. So when you put your feet at the starting line at the combine, it's not like it's flat. Like there's kind of like holes. You know, like in like a Little League baseball field, the batters box, there's like the holes. So there's like that. These people that ran before you've kind of created these.

Yeah, just slowly over time. So then I remember I kind of offset a little bit my first time and ran clean. The second time, I remember running, and my first step, I stepped in like a hole. So I got off, off my midline. And I got off my midline, remember I went to the right and then I almost ran into the tracker

and then had to convert it back up. So my second time was substantially slower. And I knew, I was like, dang, that was bad. And I remember one of the guys that was working the combine came up to me, he's like, hey, we need you to run a third, a third 40. And I was like, I, I know.

Was that because the discrepancy in time? Huge discrepancy. Yeah, they're like, what's going on? It was like 4-5-0 versus like 4-5-8 or whatever, 4-5, whatever it was. 4-5, 4-5, and then 4-8-5. Oh, yeah. Or whatever it was.

And they're like, that's like, you need to run again. So then the second time I ran, I didn't run as fast as I did the first time, but I was in the four-fives and they're like, okay. Yeah, fine. Yeah. That was for them. I think that was, look.

When you, when you uh when you're going how at what point do you know you're getting picked by the panthers so i took i took a visit to the panthers so they were the first the highest team that picked or like that visit that i visited so i visited like Carolina Cincinnati Tennessee Buffalo I think that I think that might have been it so I didn't know until that night so I was at home watching with my family you really don't know Don't know. No.

You have no idea. They have no clue. No. I mean, I think the first, probably two or three, I bet the first three picks, no. That year was Andrew Luck. Yeah. Then your boys drafted RG3. And then the third overall pick, I think it was either Matt, Killeel or Trent Richardson.

They know, those teams know that, hey, one and two are both going to be quarterbacks. We got that. So I'm sure they could tell them. But the time it gets to nine, I kind of don't know anymore. Yeah. So I remember sitting in the basin with my family. picks one Why did you not want to be there?

I was just tired of like being on the road I mean you're traveling you're going to you know different things Do you regret not being able to No I was thrilled experience you were good I was thrilled to be at the house

Yeah I can understand And I remember sitting there watching Seven was Mark Barron For Tampa Bay Buccaneers Eight What do you think that experience is like For your family

Because like we So when we watch draft and you see the reaction, everybody's at home, you know, the ones that are at home, they've got all of their intermediate family around. And we know, and we can imagine the player is excited, right? He's going to play. He realizes his dream. But like, what do you feel like? I often, anytime I'm doing anything in racing, I'm more. curious as to how this feels for the person standing next to me or the other guy, another person on my team or my wife or right. Like I'm always like, hey, what did you think about that? Yeah. Like I know what I felt and I know what I thought about it, but how did you enjoy that or did you enjoy that or would you come back or, you know?

So, you know, I'm kind of curious as to what was the, like, how early did they get there? When did everybody show up that day? Oh, man. Was it that a couple hours before? Is it like, I think it was, it was probably like an hour before. And so what's it is, are people like trying to like have, is it awkward small talk because, you know, you don't know what's about to happen? It's a big night.

I think I was, I think I was anxious and if I get anxious, I can get short with people. So I was like, guys, like, I'm sorry. Like, I just don't want to talk to anybody right now. You said that. Yeah, and I just remember. And I think when I got drafted, I think my parents were like, like, wow, like, this, it's actually, it actually happened. They were, I think they were, they felt they were living in a damn dream.

Yeah, like, what is like, what is going on? Like, we're just in our basement and it's just Luke and these are all of our friends and our son just got drafted into the NFL. Yeah, they called my name on whatever we were watching, but I remember I got a phone call right before Miami got, Miami drafted Tanna Hill. Yeah. And it was the GM, Marty Herney. And he's like, hey, Luke, this is Marty.

hearing you with the Carolina Panthers. You're on a little bit of a delay right now. The Miami Dolphins are going to draft Ryan Tannahill and then we're going to draft you with the ninth pick. And I was like, what? And everyone's like, who are you talking to? Yeah. And I'm like, the Panthers just said they were going to draft me. Yeah. And then like 30 seconds later, the pick came in and they drafted me and it was just and then it's like chaos. Like phones blowing up. Oh, yeah. Like people want to come to the house. and do media and then I get a call back from the team that says, hey, we got a 630 flight tomorrow morning.

You have no idea of this is part of it. Yeah, and you're just, it's like fire hose, like, yes. And once it happens that you're like, I don't know what time it was, probably like 8, 39 o'clock or whatever it was. And I'm just like, it's like, oh. Yeah, I'm ready to go to bed. I'm ready to just go to bed because you get,

I decided to go out or leave school in January. and then from January into February, into March, into April, you're just in like a constant state of, I don't know where I'm going to be. I've done everything I can. You're going to go live, likely, get drafted and go live in another part of the world. That you've never been to. You don't know a soul down there.

And then you get drafted and you're like, oh my gosh. Like it happened. I'm excited. But then now your emotions change from like, oh, I got drafted. I'm living my dream, blah, blah, blah, to like, well, like, now I have to go play in the NFL. Yeah. So what was, so when you, you talked about the moment of walking into the weight room in Boston College and having that sort of realization of, you know, what you were up against,

compare that to the NFL. You're, you know, when you had some sort of an injury, but I was in the pool. Oh, at the stadium? Yeah. Okay. And so I've been in that space, right, that you, you know, that you guys work in. And I seen some players walking around in there. And I wonder, like, what was the wake-up call?

Like, when you, where were you when you first sort of kind of had a similar experience that you had at Boston College where you were like, holy shit. They, you know, we always hear it all. time as fans like the game's different it's faster or whatever right everybody in the NFL's like you know not everybody in college is NFL you know and so like what was that moment for you like i remember coming in and being in a locker room this is like my first few days that i was there and i didn't know a ton of guys in the panthers like i knew some of the names um there was a couple there's like probably three of them the first one was when i met steve smith Yeah. He's a dynamic personality.

I was like, whoa. And the most interesting part, like, Steve is a great player. I grew up watching him, Triple Crown, like, whatever, all of that stuff. It was interesting to me when I walked in, I was like, he is substantially older than I am. And that was like, whoa, like, this is not all my buddies and there's no 18-year-old kids. Oh, yeah. It's like these guys are grown men, and it's their job. and like they're here to play.

So I think that was one of them. We had a guy named Bruce Campbell. He was an offensive line, and he played left tackle, right tackle. He was 6, 7, 315, 20 pounds, and just absolutely jacked. Like, no fat, nothing. His arms were super long. He had gigantic hands. And then he was walking through.

through the locker room with the shirt off going down to the training room. I was like, I've never seen anybody like that in my whole life. And then John Beeson was a locker across from me just like carved out of granite. And then Stu walks in, Jonathan Stewart. Have you met him before? No, but I've seen him around. He's just gigantic. I'm like, there's Steve Smith.

And then I saw these three dudes that I've never seen anyone like that in my entire life, ever. like this is different and then you get out onto the field and we had an offensive tackle named Jeff Otta he was at a Pittsburgh he was a monster he could run he was big and I remember they ran a run play this was an OTAs they ran a run play to my right and in college I would just run away for so like if this is like the offensive tackle I'm lining up and like on his inside shoulder and they run the ball this way so usually like in in college it's like this like I just run away from him Jeff Othal, the ball got snapped, and he was like here. Before I even, like, took a step.

And I remember I looked, I saw this color flash in front of me. And I was like, that's weird. And I went to run. And he was just like a wall, like a refrigerator, just standing in front of me. And I was like, that's not going to happen. I'm not going to get over there. And then I got hit by Mike Robinson. He played quarterback at Penn State, big,

thick physical kid guy he does quarterback yeah quarterback in high school you remember him no he he does he works for NFL network now he's fantastic he played fullback for the seattle seahawks and we played then my rookie year i remember it was a pass play i dropped to my right i'm looking no one's in the way like i don't have anybody no receivers are here and then russell starts to run out to my right and i'm like i'm gonna kill him i start running directly at him and he's running like at a like a slight angle. I'm like, I'm going to kill him. At the last second, like, Russ is running like this way. I'm running like this. At the last second, Russ turns like that and I'm running at Russ, and he puts his foot in the ground. I put my foot in the ground, and I flash here, and I just see Mike Robinson,

like running at my face. And he hit me so hard that, like, you didn't even feel, I didn't even feel it. I just got smoked. I remember I just first thing I remember was being on the ground and I looked up and it was him and he just looked at me and just smiled. He's like, you're all right? I was like, I'm all right, man. Yes, if you're okay.

But it's just the speed and the power and how physical guys were was my rookie year. I got my butt kicked. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, you did play quite a bit similar to your, you know, your college

career you kind of got thrust into playing early in your NFL career. I mean, was that, I guess, you know, you're anxious to get out there and prove yourself, but at the same time, you know, we see a lot of times they like to, you know, you know, within a quarterback position, they kind of like to groom some of the rookies. Some of them don't get the choice, but how comfortable were you, I guess, being out on the field as a starter like overwhelmed at all? Oh yeah. Yeah? And you're talking about everything coming at you so fast

I would compare, if I compare this to going to a race track, there's a track called Bristol high banked half-mile track. We run 15 second laps around there. Every time I go there and race, it takes me about 40 laps for my mind to sort of catch up with what I'm seeing. it's just like a VCR tape on fast forward up until a certain point it just starts to slow down and make sense. So when does that start to happen for you? I think it probably took me, I don't know, five or six games, seven games my rookie year. First game I got my teeth kicked in. Second game, I played better, but everything was happening very fast.

And you don't feel like you're in control. are you what position you're playing at that point i mean in terms of information yeah who's in charge of the so my my first game i played outside linebacker okay and i played an only certain i didn't play the whole game i only played certain packages right john bison was the mike backer he had the green dots communication device and i probably played my first like three games i probably played like 20 games or 20 snaps a game and i think a lot of it was i didn't know what to look at yeah like if you don't know where to put your eyes and you don't know what to look at pre-snap, when the ball gets snapped, it's in your lap like that.

Versus as I started to figure it out, it's like, all right, hey, in this formation, I'm going to put my eyes right here. That's going to be my best indicator that dictates where I need to be on this play. Yeah. So once that happened, it just took time. But I just felt like my first couple games, stuff was in my lap. It was fast. I was very uncomfortable.

I wasn't making plays. I wasn't in control. And it just was, it was very difficult. How, so if you're only getting minimal opportunities on the field and you're having, you know, you go out there, you're in a play, nothing happens, you know, substantially, or you feel like you're not, you know, don't end up where you're supposed to be. And then you're back off the field for a handful of plays. I watch games where, um, knowing that. depth chart of the Washington

commanders and seeing guys get scarce opportunities and, you know, a guy will get on the field at wide receiver and drop a pass, right? And you're like, you know, I wanted him to catch that ball because I want him to, you know, he's not going to get on the field for another, you know, quarter and he's going to go sit on a bench and think about that, right?

Yeah. You know, so how do you, how, as a player, do you work through some of those, some of those moments? and, you know, what is the interaction you're getting from your teammates? I mean, is it all pats on the back? You're going to figure it out. You're doing great.

Or is anybody getting in your face, like chewing your ass, coaches? I think a lot of it, to answer the last part of that question, I think a lot of it has to do with how hard do you practice. do people feel like you're you're doing everything you can to put yourself in position to be successful and then how much does it matter to you and how hard do you play on Sunday? If I'm playing really hard, I prepare during the week, my practice habits are fantastic, I'm really good in the meetings and it's just, I'm just struggling. I think most guys have all been there before and they're like they're going to address like

the number one thing I think that's important to do is when there's a mistake, we have to address it because either, you know, it's cliche, you either teaching it and coaching it or you're allowing it. So like, hey, if I'm supposed to be in this gap and I'm in this gap, I expect to be correct to be like, hey, look, why were you in the B gap? Like, you know, I, I don't know. Or it could be, hey, I got, you know, I thought I was in the B gap based on where this guy went. Like, if there's a thought process that goes into why you do it, I think people are more lenient, but it's also, we need you to be in the A gap. this is how to do it.

This is why we did it in practice. We repped it like this. This is where your eyes should be. We expect you to be their next play. And like, I don't need you to yell at me. Like, I want to do it more than you do. Like, I want to be really good. Like, I don't want to just be like a dude that, you know, well, like, we need Luke to play

linebacker today. And like, maybe he'll be in there. Like, no, like, I want to be on the team and I want to contribute. And I want to be a really good football player. So guys were really good early on with me of, like, being patient and helping. and helping me and talking to me on the field. I just had great guys around me as a young player that walked me through, like,

I know you're struggling. I know it's really difficult for you right now. You got to keep going, and also, you need to be more physical. You're not very physical right now. Really? Okay? Yeah. You need to play better with your hands, right?

You need to be firmer when you tackle. You need to get your legs going more. So, like, I wasn't, when I got in the NFL, I didn't understand the physicality of the game. I wasn't tackling guys great. I just didn't know how to be that physical, and I didn't know how to hit bigger backs, and so they just challenge you.

Like, hey, I know he's big, but guess what? Everybody's like that. So either you're going to figure it out or you're not, and then when you only get certain amount of reps during games, it's frustrating because I'm a flow guy. Like, I need to get in the flow. But I think you have, to maximize every opportunity that you get, whether it's on the field during the game, in practice,

in the meeting rooms, like you need to approach every snap practice meeting room game as if it's the most important one. So like if I'm watching tape and it's, you know, like, hey, Luke, put yourself in position as a weak side backer on this play. Here's our play. Toby Snake 9. What do you got to be? All right, boom. We're going to set the front to the tight end. The pressure's coming off the edge. We got a rotation call to the blitz. I'm off number three. Like, That's how it should be every time. So that way you steal a rep. Then you steal a rep at practice.

And then maybe you go watch tape on your own. You steal another one. So then when the game comes in, you might only get 20 snaps, but you better know what you're doing on those 20 snaps because you might not get any more, but the only way to get on the field more is to show them that you belong on the field. Yeah. When you started having success immediately as an NFL player,

you know, leading league and tackles and things like that, I mean, are those, I don't want to ask you if that surprised you, but. Yeah, it did. So, I mean, looking back on it now, right, does it still feel remarkable in terms of, you know, you talk about not being the athletic player that some of the guys were, you talk about some of the limitations. that you feel you had but you were able to go out there and perform better than anyone else

in many instances throughout your career. How were you able to do that? And now removed from it, I guess in the moment while it's happening, everything's a blur, you're just working your ass off, but now that you can take a look back and go, holy shit, I can't, you know, I would imagine you're you're quite amazed oh yeah right I think there's certain things I wanted to be

really good I loved football I loved the game I always felt like I saw it pretty well it was super it was the most important thing to me in the world but I think my situation in Carolina was perfect Perfect. The defensive system that we ran was perfect. My linebacker coach was great. The defense coordinator, Sean McDermott up in Buffalo, he built that defense to let linebackers run. And then you look around our team.

Thomas Davis was fantastic for me in my development as a linebacker, as a person, as an NFL player, how to practice, how to be tough, how to be physical, how to compete. And he never had to let. teach me to do it. It was he did it all by, like, he led by example. And it was kind of like the expectation,

match my, match my energy, max my competitiveness, match everything here. And he had such a good way about himself that allowed you to want to, to, I like, I want to be there right next to you. Yeah. So scheme, system, Ron Rivera, the best. loved him. He was so good for me. Greg Olson was great for me. Just an older, him and Ryan Khalil, so they were really good in the sense of, you know, I was 21 years old. I was down there by

myself, and they were like, just like older brothers. So I had great system, great coaches. Thomas was fantastic for me on a lot of levels. Ryan and Greg were great. I played at a time that maximize my skill set. I just think that I wanted to be really good at football and I was competitive and all that. But my situation in like my the group around me in Carolina,

John Beeson was the same way. Just awesome. Like he got hurt in the, was it the Atlanta game? My rookie year was like week three or four or something. And he played, then they moved me to inside backer. And Beas was there every day.

Hey Luke, look, this is how I look at this. Hey, great job. Hey, you did it differently than I do, but I understand why you did that. Like, that's a great way to do it. Hey, when we play the New Orleans Saints this week, they've got, you know, Jari Evans and Knicks on the inside. This is how they like playing. When we go play Tampa Bay, they have Davin Joseph, this big guard like, hey, he's really weak on this side. If you want to attack him in wide zone, do it this way. So I had some stuff in my favor just I just wanted to be good, but the people around me, like, I just, it was literally as perfect of a situation as I could have ended up in, and I was very fortunate to have a lot of those guys

with me. Yeah. You talk about how, you know, your love for football is immense. And so, you know, at such a young age, having to make a decision, may make the tough decision that you shouldn't be playing football anymore. How hard was that? Because, and I kind of want to, I had my own experiences with head injuries as a race car driver, and I knew the doctor that I was with in Pittsburgh was telling people that they needed to stop. And I was like, I want you to tell me to stop, because I'm not going to stop unless you tell

me I have to stop. Yeah. And I don't want to, I don't want to choose that. I want some, I'd rather you be the one. That would be easier, right, to do it that way. But you had to make that choice, right? Or you had to live with that choice. I don't know, maybe he made it for you.

I don't know. But at a very young age where you would have still had, you know, a handful of years left, you had to choose that something that you had done your entire life, it was no longer going to be part of your existence. I want to know how you managed going through that and how difficult that was. I think it was a very difficult decision because, like you said, I loved everything about football. I love the offseason. I love training camp.

I love OTAs. I love being around the guys flying the games. I love playing football. I love to practice. I get to wake up every day and put sweats on and go hang out with. with 120 of my boys and play football and lift weights and hang out. But I knew I got hit a few times, you know, the previous couple years. I got hit a couple times that year.

I had some other stuff that was bugging me. And I just remember after one game late in that season, I was like, man, like, I just can't do it anymore. Like, I can't play how I want to. I can't be as physical as I want to because stuff was starting to happen. and I just remember I got home that night, and I'm like, I can't do it. And this was maybe with a game, it was with one game left. And it was so hard, but it was easy because I knew, like, this is just the right thing to do.

Yeah. Was there some comfort, if that's a word, in making that choice yourself? Did you make this choice all on your? Yeah, I did it by my, I did it. I didn't really tell anybody. And, yeah, I think there was comfort in knowing that. As badly as I wanted the doctor to shut me down, I was actually, I ended up going and finishing one more year,

and that was better. I didn't know it at the time, but that was the best outcome in terms of my ability and my own sanity, right, to move beyond what I thought I was going to be every year. Yeah, and I think for me, I knew, I just couldn't mentally, I couldn't do it anymore. I was like, I was like, I just can't. Yeah.

And once you know you're like, once you make the decision in your heart that like I can't do it anymore, I can't go fake it. Yeah. And it's not fair, number one, to like myself and my family for me to go through that. And then number two, it's not fair to the team that expects me to play at level 10 when I'm only going to play at level six. Right. I'm not doing that. It's not fair to my teammates that are relying on me to, I need to go stuff this guy in the B gap. Like, I need to shove him in there.

I need to punch him on me, put my face on his chin and stuff him in that gap. Thomas is relying on me to do that, so then he's going to feel hard inside. If I'm not able to do that, it's not good for Thomas. It's not good for any of the guys in our team. And then ultimately, it's not good for our fans for me to go out there and play at 70% because I'm scared that I'm going to get hurt. It's just not good for anybody. The knowledge that you and your teammates have for the game

and the understanding of exactly what's happening on the field, there would be no way for you to mask your effort. No. An effort is like very effort and physicality in the NFL is like, I can see it from my way. Like you don't, like something's wrong. Yeah. And if it's, you know, it's just.

And they would, you would, they would have called you out on you. You would have, you know, Thomas would have been like, ma'am, all right. You're all right? Yeah, you're not going to. No. Yeah. You're not going to do this? Yeah, it's just like, no, I'm not good.

There was one particular game where you had a very emotional reaction to your being concussed. And I was curious, sometimes when we, sometimes when we go through that experience, those are uncontrolled. But sometimes, sometimes it's. the you are the only person in that entire arena that knows exactly what just happened and that something's wrong again, right? And I'm curious as to what that experience, what was going on? Was that an uncontrolled reaction? Yeah.

Really? So I got hit. So that would have been, what year was that? So I got hit in 15 in the Super Bowl year. That was the first concussion I ever got ever. Ever. Ever. So that's interesting because in racing,

Like I had, I got, I was diagnosed in 12 with a real bad crash in Kansas at a, at a, at a test. And I had, I didn't know what a concussion was until that moment. And I hit really freaking hard. One of the guys on the crew was like, he's like, 10 minutes later, he's like, you're all right, man, you're staring right through me. he's like you can't even hear me I'm like I'm fine and then we went and ate and I'm sitting there getting ready to eat

and I almost threw up we just we're just sitting down to not even order our food yet and I was like I'm going to vomit like instantly just got super nauseous and so you know go through the whole next several weeks and I learned a ton of stuff

I wish I'd never had to learn but I got to thinking I'm like well damn man I had a I remember in 1998 wrecking at Daytona and, you know, 15 years before this and being dizzy and sick for three days and, holy shit, you know. And then I started, you know, thinking about all these other moments. And I'm like, damn, I have had more than I, you know, this wasn't my first concussion.

Yeah. And you play football, such a, you know, contact, you don't, when you have that first experience in 2015, team, you didn't never go, oh, I remember when I was playing high school. I think I was very fortunate that that was the first one I got and then going to that start of your question, that was in 2016 against the Saints. We played Thursday night football and I got hit and I just was like, I don't, like, I have no idea why I'm like this. Yeah. Like, I don't know what.

You feel bad. You're elite. you're an athlete, you know your body better than normally most people do, right? And you know when you're even a tenth off or it's percent. I don't know what, like, I don't know what's going on. What is this? Yeah. And you're just like, I just, it's not, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's funny to look back on it now. I remember we were sitting on the field and, uh, I was just like, like crying and on the first one. Uh, no, set, this, second one. This, this, this, this, This was the one when you had that emotional reaction.

Yeah, and I remember sitting on the field and I was like trying to figure out what was going on with me. And our trainer, Ryan Vermilion was talking to me and I was like having a meltdown. And Thomas, and Harvey looks at Thomas like, you need to talk to him. So Thomas, I remember Thomas put his forehead on my forehead and started talking to me. And it like, man, I love you. You're going to be okay. We're right here for you. like we got you and I remember it like calm me down a little bit and they're trying to get me

they're trying to get me to stand up and like I was still like I don't know like what's going like I knew what was going on but I was like I don't know why I'm like crying and then I remember RV signals into his like headset or whatever and he's like hey I think you I think you guys are going to need to bring the the cart out like the cart to bring the golf cart on the field to get me off the field and that was like you're going to need to bring the golf cart on the field and that was like one thing I always told myself like you're never going to get no one's ever going to take you off on a cart like you will walk off the field like from a little kid you were going to walk I don't care what's wrong with you if you can get off the field you're getting off the field and I remember he

said bring the cart bring the card out and I was just like oh no I was like no this is awful but you know what it it obviously it obviously sucks you know it's unfortunate part but I feel like the NFL has done a really good job of doing everything they can from rules to the protocol to these to the new stuff they have the guys have the have with the ability on the field the doctors that we had in Carolina Ryan Vermillion and all our doctors are fantastic it's just you play football you're going to get hurt yeah it's just part of it and if you don't want to get hurt then don't play yeah you know I was um I was going to I was seeing a guy in Pittsburgh, Michael, Michael Collins, Mickey Collins.

Mickey Collins, yeah. And so I'm sure you've met Mickey and worked with Mickey in the past. And I'd known, I knew he was my guy, right? I call him in the middle of the night, whatever I had to ask him. And I had been, in my mind, healed from this issue I had in 2012. And I started having some vision issues. I hadn't wrecked in months, a couple months. And it wasn't really a bad wreck.

And then I started having some vision issues, and I went to see the guy. I just happened to find myself in front of some of the Carolina Panthers guys. Yeah. And he's like, it's a concussion. I was like, there's no way, man, I haven't wrecked. You know, I thought, you know, a concussion was, bam, concussion. Not like something that would creep into my life months down the road.

and he's like, no, man, I think this is what's going on. And they sent me back to Mickey. And so, you know, you would rehab, get yourself well, right? Get back on the field, play, have another incident, kind of similar to my own. But you did finish those final couple of years very productive, like still playing very, very well. I wonder, I love the decision, right? When you've had enough or you know you, you've got to make a choice because there's a whole other life beyond what you've known.

I love the choice. How hard did you, how difficult was it to deal with wondering that everyone else could get on the wagon? Right? You're going to make this decision. You're going to do something with the rest of your life, but you've got a family, friends. No one can, no one, maybe there's a couple people in your inner circle that really, really know what's going on when you're bad, when you're sick. But no one else does.

None of your buddies are in the room with the doctor. They're not listening to what he's trying to diagnose and hearing these things. And then you also have this massive fan base, not only the Carolina Panthers fan base, but you're iconic. You as a player are a massive critical component to the success of this defense. How hard was it to have to let that down? Right?

I was, I wrote a book, right, about my shit because I felt like I had to give them an account of all of the things that happened so anyone that read it would go, oh, I see why he quit. Yeah. Because before they're like, what's he doing?

He's weak. he's a quitter or his wife is making him quit you know there's stupid all these all these bad narratives out there and you feel like you're letting down a giant group of people right so did you experience that i don't honestly not at all really i think i had i not i didn't think i had i had fantastic support from the team my buddies um obviously my family and even the fans too i think i think largely understood what was going on. And that was why it was so important for me to do it right after the season before, you know, I think it would have been very different if, you know, I got the training camp and then, you know, I don't know if it would have been a different

situation or not. But I think for me it was, I know I'm not going to do it. There's no sense of dragging this on. I'm going to be as very, as honest, I'm going to tell them exactly what's going on why I'm making the decision. I had fantastic support from all the people that were important to me and if people didn't like it, then that was just going to have to be life, you know? Yeah. Do you, I guess maybe because yours, your experiences played out publicly, right? And so there was no freaking question that maybe this was a great decision in terms of the public opinion. when you watch the game today, right, and I'm not asking you to give your personal opinion on Tua or anything,

but, you know, when, how does that, how do you, I get, that, that, that, like you feel it. Yeah. That messes with me. Yeah. Right. When I see, uh, what Tua's been going through, um, particularly, um, you know, with, with the more, I don't want to say the word graphic, but the more, it's, you know, it's a very hard. hard thing to watch when somebody goes through that.

What is your reaction? You're a player. Yeah. You have access, you know, right? I liked, in my world, right, I like trying to direct guys that I thought needed some help to the right person. Yeah. But at the same time, right, you've been through that and you don't love all the people

trying to get in the middle of your mess, right? trying to tell you what they think you need to be doing. So it's a bit of a, it's tough. It's even tough to comment on it. Like I find myself hesitant to even comment on to his situation because it's not my situation. He'll be in front of the right people. They'll handle it.

He has to buy into that 100%. And the more noise is the, you know, get all the, you know, nobody needs to create any noise around him. So, but you're in that element. You're in that world. and how difficult is it for you to sort of see players go through those things and not know exactly how to best serve them? I think the hardest thing is, you know, I don't know what he's going to do moving forward. Sure.

But the hardest part is knowing, like, he can't play right now. Yeah. And all he wants to do is play football. Like, he strikes me as the type of guy that I love football. I love being around my guys. I love competing. I love getting better. I love solving problems as a quarterback.

and you can't do that right now, you know, and he can't tough it out. And that to me is the most unfortunate part that I feel for him is, you know, I'm sure you just wanted the race. I just wanted to play linebacker. He just wants to go play quarterback, and he can't do it right now. And so that's where I feel for him in that area. But like you said, it's like he's got great people down there. they're going to take care of them. They're going to do everything they can to make sure that he is 100% ready to go.

And they're going to make the best decision, not for the Miami Dolphins of the NFL, but for Tua. Yeah. So that's how I feel. They're going to do whatever's best for him, but kind of bringing it full circle is like all these guys want to do is play football. Yeah. Like you take all this stuff away.

There are certain guys in this league, and I'm sure in racing that, hey, if we're not going going to pay you, some of you guys will still do it because it's just awesome. Yeah. You know? So, you know, that's a great message, I think, is, I guess, you know, Tua or any player in that situation, especially in this day and age, is not going to, he will be insulated and saved from himself in a sense because of all the people around him. I mean, the Miami Dolphins and his agent. Yeah, his agent. Yeah.

Right. And so people like myself, you know, that are fans that are watching from the sideline, often maybe forget just how protected the players are. And nobody, you know, nobody in his world and the Miami Dolphins in the NFL want to see him risk, you know, injury unnecessarily. Exactly. Yeah. There was another thing, and we kind of went through this during the same period of time. And so maybe the rehab for you might have been similar as it was to me. The other day I saw Giants, wide receiver, Malik neighbors. He ripped up Washington when they played a couple weeks ago, facing a little backlash for being spotted at a Travis Scott concert.

He's in concussion diagnosis. And I laughed because I went to see, again, Mickey Collins. He's, you know, as you know, Mickey Collins is kind of one of the guys. He's a lot of people in all around the league in NFL, NHL, they all often are sent to see Mickey. And he's done amazing things for athletes and every man. If you walk into his front office, you'll see kids and everyone. Everyone. Everyone.

Every man, woman, anybody that ever has an issue, I don't care who they are. They don't need to be an athlete. They go see him. and one of his, I remember in 2012, he was like, I need you to go get in some really complex environments. And I was like, okay, like what? And I'm out of the car. I feel like that my team is looking at me going,

I don't say nothing wrong with you. Why are you out of the car? Why aren't you in the car? You look fine. And I'm like, well, I'm not fine. And I'm going to sit on the sideline for a while. And so I hid. I didn't want them know that I was having,

any fun or going anywhere and doing anything that I what that maybe I shouldn't they didn't think I needed to be doing but Mickey's like go to some complex environments and I had an opportunity to go see one of my favorite bands and he's like that's perfect yeah go to the go this concert and he's like man your brain needs to like be really pushed and tested and he's like go to the grocery store and all these different things and I was like I told him I was like I went in the grocery store and I had to get out of there man yeah it's terrible vestibular that's a vestibular that's a vestibular concussion. Yes.

Yeah. He's like, it's terrible. I was like, I got it. I couldn't. He's like, go back in.

He's like, go back in. He's like, go back in, make it feel bad. And then come back out and then calm down. And then go back in and make it feel bad. He's like,

keep doing it until it stops, feeling bad. Yeah. And so I just laughed because Malik was at this concert and I'm thinking, I bet that's actually the best thing for him if it's,

you know, the particular type of concussion he has, which I'm sure it's probably similar. Yeah. But, you know, it's interesting when, probably even eight or ten years before me and you went through that process, they wanted you

to stay off, do not watch TV, do not look at a cell phone, don't look at a screen, get in a dark room, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep. And in a matter of a decade, the entire philosophy around it flipped 180 degrees to go out and go do and retrain and rehab. exert, right? As soon as you go to Mickey, you get on a bike or a treadmill, and they make you feel sick. And they want you to, right?

They want to push your body and figure out where your brain's hurt. And, you know, I was really, I was kind of wondering, I still have a lot of the materials and, that they sent me home with, you know, over a decade or two ago. And I was wondering, I guess, how similar your rehab might have been. I remember being, he gave me this kind of like a little kid's toy that plugged into a wall and it was like a disco light but with light, with color lights in it. And I'd get in, I had a golf simulator in my garage and it was pitch dark in there

unless you turn a light on to play golf. And so I'd get in that room and turn that thing on and walk, heel to toe, heel to toe, back and forth, touch the wall, turn around, do it again over and over and over. And it was like trying to trick my brain into not be. being able to see a horizon and really confuse my brain, but also make me try to be balanced. And I was kind of curious as to what your homework was like. Yeah, a lot of it was, like, retrained.

You have to just had a traumatic event, and it needs to find a way to rehab and get back to even. Yeah. And so, like, for me, the vestibular, that's like, you know, stuff going on. And if you walk through an airport, that's like a vestibular overload. because there's people going this way, people going that way, people crossing. There's lights, there's sounds, there's restaurants, there's noises. And I just, yeah, I think it helps you understand where you're at.

Like, am I better? All right, let's put myself in this environment that will be very challenging for the situation that I'm in. Yeah. And then, you know, the first one in 2015, I saw Mickey. And he, I remember he had a TV screen. And he was putting certain things on the screen. And I was like, that's not bothering me. That's not bothering me.

That's not bothering me. And then he put like, it's like a guy had a GoPro on and was, that's why I say the airport walking through the airport. And he was walking on like moving walkways and up escalators. And it was like the point of view of him. And I remember he put it on. And I was like, I don't like that. Yeah.

I don't like that. He's like, awesome. He's like, that's great. Now we know how to fix this. Yeah. And I went and saw Mickey and I don't know, it was week probably two after I got it. And I went and saw Mickey. And it was nice because you, you're like, you told me what's like going on.

Like, oh, like, relax. Yeah. And then I was like, this is what we're going to do. And you're like, great. So then you went and did it. And it was all just like, like, it's stupid stuff. Oh, yeah. Like, look at a, mundane.

Look at a fan and like follow a fan blade around. Oh, yeah. Or like, I'm going to throw you tennis balls. Yeah. And you just have to like catch the tennis balls. Yeah. I don't even remember like get on a treadmill and walk on a treadmill at an incline and watch like, you know, on some of the treadmills they have like walk the Grand Canyon. Yeah. Do that. And he's like, just do it until you don't feel good. And then once you don't feel good, just take a break.

And then you do all that stuff. And then you're like, huh, like, I'm starting to feel better. And that it's just, like, I remember I went to a restaurant. This was like a week after I had it and it was loud and bright. And I'm like, I was getting pissed. Yes. I was like, this place sucks. Yeah.

And I was with some people and like, are you okay? I'm like, no, this place is terrible. Like, I don't want to be here. And then you're like, oh, like, I know what's going on. Yep. And you're like, okay, well, like, this place doesn't suck. This place isn't bad. I just need to, like, you go home.

Yeah. And so it's just stuff like that. And the knowledge and the understanding and the awareness that I gained was super helpful. And it's just, it's very different than you can't, if I break my arm and I take an extra, they're like, boom, you got to break. We're going to plate it. we're going to put some screws in it we're going to zip it up and then in like a couple weeks you can play versus you get a concussion it's not like they can take a picture of it it's how do you

present how do you feel what bothers it is this making it better is this making it worse and you know like you obviously know Mickey really well too it he's just great yeah he is he's an amazing guy I had one instance where I was kind of you know I wasn't getting better and and uh and I called Mickey in the middle of the night and I said hey man I'm really bummed out I'm like you know months into doing all I'm getting up every morning and I'm doing hour or two of these exercises that are really silly and I feel foolish and I've been here before we've done this and it fixed it but this isn't fixing and I was like tell me you fix this everything you know exactly all my problems tell me you fixed it and he's like I fixed it hundreds of times this is going to fix

it fix itself and I don't know how it was of you but I woke up one day and it was just better. And I knew immediately as soon as I opened my eyes. And it was like the wires just got back together, you know? And it was amazing. I woke up and it was like Christmas morning. I called him immediately. I'm like, I've had a breakthrough, right?

I'm not 100%. But damn, this is way better than the last four months. And then got well, raced. retired, got a great job in broadcasting. I was with my broadcast partners. We went to Martinsville just to watch the race. It wasn't our time in the season just yet to start working, but we were there just to watch.

Got up close to the cars of practicing and going around the corner, and I'm watching them go by. It's kind of like watching a tennis ball or tennis match. And I'm like, I don't feel so good. And I actually went and hid for a second because I didn't want somebody to come up to me and start a conversation and I wasn't looking or feeling too good I wasn't sure how evident it was and but I called I got somewhere finally and I called Mickey I said Mickey I had a little problem they what are you talking about so I told him and he goes man a major league baseball player

called me the other day and was standing on a dock and he said the current of the water is going one way and a boat sailed by and he almost fell off the dock and he's been good for for years and he called me freaking out and I was and he was like I'm going to ask him the same thing I asked you, when's the last time you stood in the corner that close to the racetrack and saw cars go by? And I said since I was probably five, I hadn't ever really walked up to the edge of the track and watched the cars go by that close since I was a little boy. He's like, you've got to go up there and do it again.

And you've got to retrain your brain to see those things and accept those things. And I did. And it, you know, it became something that I could actually go up and do now without an issue. and so it's kind of remarkable the way that our brains work. They're fascinating. Yeah. And to your, I think you said it. Like we ended up learning a lot of things about ourselves that we probably wish we hadn't

had to learn, but it was nice knowing and getting that education. I think it makes me more confident with myself from here on out, right, that I'm going to figure this out and I can, you know, it sucks having to move on from. from racing and I'm still having a little bit of hard time with that because I can still kind of unlike football like I can pedal with racing at a grassroots level and feel like I'm in this little safe space and can do one or two races a year. Yeah. Whereas in football you don't get that choice.

You can't kind of go back. I can smoke. Right. And so talk about what you chose to do to fill the competitive void and keep yourself busy. So I love football, love, I love the teaching side of it, and I love to be outside. I love to hunt, love to fish. So kind of what kind of hunting? I love to bow hunt.

Me too. That's my favorite thing. Yeah. I have a place in Ohio and it's only bow. They have one week of muzzle. It's the best. Yeah, but yeah. It's the best.

White tail and elk out west. Those are my two, those are my favorite things. I do the radio for the Panthers, so I'm still around the game. Yeah. I'm still around the Panthers, which I love. That was helpful. Love the team. Yeah, it's great.

I'm around all my buddies. I fly with the team, the games. I fly home. I stay at the hotel. So I'm still, I've still buddies on the team. So I'm able to kind of like adjacent, like I'm, I'm staff now. So like I can't, I'm not like a player, but you have to kind of navigate that a little bit. But I'm still around it.

I can go to the meeting rooms again, see all the guys. Like I'm there on Sundays for the games. and then I coach a 7th and 8th grade football team with Greg and Jonathan Stewart and a couple other guys and Greg's dad and Todd Blackledge came with us this year. Charlotte Christian. Okay, yeah. That's a big deal. Oh, it's so.

It is like... Charlotte Christian is a big deal. Yeah, I tell you what, we play on Thursday this week. We game plan and we talk all the time and I still get a little bit like nervous before games and it's fun. And I don't, you know, I think at some point it's, you have to come to grips. I'm trying to still do the same thing.

It's like, you can't play football anymore. Like, you're just not going to. And that environment is so unique in the NFL and sports in general. We literally there was, we had 53 guys, 10 practice squad guys. You'd have a couple guys in I are. You'd have your coaches, your weight staff, your equipment guys, your trainers. And they're all just dudes. Like, all dudes.

all have tons of fun, really relaxed. Like, it's a blast. Like, that's just a very difficult environment to recreate. And then for me, it's like, all right, where's, like, what's the next thing? What is it? I don't know. I'm not sure yet. You're still working on it.

Still working on it. Yeah. But I have stuff that I'm doing that I really enjoy. And. Well, the broad, you enjoy the radio. The radio is fun. I just need a little bit, like. I enjoy broadcasting.

Like, I, too, I didn't want to stop going to the race. track. Yeah. But I didn't want to go to the racetrack without a job. Yes. You don't want to be, you don't want to be the guy that's just there. Yes. It sucks. Hey, what's he doing here? I don't know. He's just, he's just here again because I don't know. Like, you don't want to be that guy. No. You want to be like, hey, what's Luke doing here? Oh, he's doing the radio. He's on the field talking to a couple coaches that he played with and he's going to go upstairs and he'll probably, he'll probably mention something about it in the broadcast. Yeah. Like, you don't, like, I'm sure it's same thing with you guys. You don't want to ever be that guy. Yeah. That's just around and, you know.

I broadcast and I worked with NBC for six years and I'm going to start broadcasting again next year. But even just, I mean, like I need to kind of go and be around it. But if I'm not broadcasting that race, man, it is, it's hard to go and watch it. Yeah. And not be able to do it. I don't, I was, I went through that phase for a couple years. where I've been doing the radio for my third year. The first, like, year, I didn't go on the field before the game. Yeah. I was like, like, I'm not, I'm not ready to do that. Like, it's going to make me, it's going to just bum me out.

I had a weird deal where I was freaking awesome with being retired my first year. I was so glad to be out of the grind and out of the, I loved being out from under the pressure of it and, like, the pressure I put on myself, like to be fast every week. and I was so glad to just like get a break. But each year it's gotten worse. And I don't know where that ends or where that goes. Worse is terms of missing it.

And like wishing I was, I know I don't want to do it. I know I don't because I get in the car and I run a race and I go, yeah, I don't want to do this every week. But damn, I forget. And two weeks later I'm sitting there going, damn, I want to. Because it's fun. I really miss being that guy. Yeah. And I think that's it.

you miss. That was my identity. That was your identity. It's who you were since you were a little kid. And it's just kind of like gone. Yeah. You know, it's strange. But I think it's good though because I think it proves to us how much we loved doing it.

I think if you were sitting down, you're like, I don't miss it at all. Like I'm glad I'm not doing it anymore. Like I think it's kind of like, dang, man, you wasted a lot of your life doing something that you really didn't love that much. Do you pour some of, I try to divert that energy into broadcasting. Yeah. Right? I want to watch this broadcast as a fan and react as a fan. Yeah.

I love what I'm seeing. I want to be doing. I love what they're doing. And how have you enjoyed, I guess, being a part of the radio team? Oh, it's great. Right? And it's team. Like, you miss being on a team.

Yeah. So I love that. The group we work with is awesome. but I try to think about it as, you know, you want to broadcast it or talk about it from the perspective, too, of the players of, like, how much fun it is. And I don't know, I just, you want to, I want to teach people. And that's one thing I missed the most. I loved when young guys came in and we could, like, teach them stuff. Like, hey, this is where we should line up.

This is why we line up there. This is what you should look at. This is why it's important to look there. Is that not filling that bucket with the high school team? I think it certainly is. It's just, just, I'm still just like still proud a little bit. Still proud a little. I think the team aspect of it, I just miss being around a bunch of dudes that all are like the same.

I don't know where you're going to find that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it might, I mean, it just might not ever be that way again. Which I think is fine. Yeah. I think it's fine. And I think you're better off having, haven't had the experience.

of doing that than not doing it. And so then you miss it, but I'd rather miss it than never have known what it felt like, you know? Yeah, that's a good way I put it. That's the way I think about like, that makes me think of my dad because that's, you know, whenever I start missing my dad, I think what a lucky guy was to even experience him

and know him, right? And so that's very helpful and probably similar in, you know, because it's lost, you know, you lost something that's very dear to you in terms of your career and my career. but you then you've worked I wanted to ask you and you went to Capitol Hill yeah a congressional briefing bringing awareness to traumatic brain injuries I um I got a lot that I want to know about this so I'll try to be quick how do you get requested to do that is that something you pitched so there's there's a couple companies that I work with in that space that are involved with not a

sports, but military and just general health and wellness. One of them is a company called Q Collar. They, a couple of NASCAR guys wore them. There's a bunch of guys around sports and the military wear them. It's a, it's a device that you put around your neck that helps with, you know, sub-concussive blows and repetitive impacts, head impacts. So that's one side of it. The other side of it is I got a buddy named Jeff Byers that I played football with in Carolina. He owns a supplement company called Momentus. And they do a lot in the supplement space with military and sports in the area of, you know, the same thing. Concussions, head impacts, repetitive impacts, subconcussive blows, all that stuff. And Jeff was like, hey, I'm going up to Capitol Hill. We're going to present to some

people up there. Would you like to come? I said, yeah, 100%. Did you know what that looked like? He told me what it looked like. And basically went up there. We were in a room, probably a big and there were some different people from Washington up there and Jeff's like, hey, this is what I want you to talk about. I got up there and said, hey, look, you're on a mic, a podium? Yeah, a little podium. Hey, I'm Lou Keekeley. I played in the NFL for eight years. This is why this is important to me. This is what I've learned over the past, you know, 12 years since, you know, I've been out of the NFL. This is what I learned in the NFL. This is where I think these two companies do a really good job and are trying to help people. And at the end of the day, all we want to do is help people.

And that's kind of what I tell people is I want guys specifically in football to be able to play the game as long as they want to without this being a reason why they have to stop playing. There's a million. You're going to get cut. You're old. You make too much money. They don't, and you're not playing well. You have a different orthopedic injury. A young guy comes in and takes your job.

Like that's all, you know, that's just ball, right? But if you can find ways to find and cross something off the list that gives guys another opportunity to play just a little. little bit longer than I'm all for it. So yeah, all right. Well, I, I was kind of curious as to what it must have been like to go to Capitol Hill. I was like, whoa, there's like security and. Must have been cool.

Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. It was a great experience. I love that you're, I love that you're comfortable talking about your experience with concussions. I love that you're actively out trying to help other people. And I know, I know that you've probably, you know,

steered some people to get the right help and the right rehab that have been through similar instances. And I'm thankful that you come to spend some time with it today. Absolutely. I've, you know, I've admired you, man, the way you played and approached your, you know, the game of football, but the person you were, the person you've been for the community of Charlotte, the fact that you're, you know, you're still here and actively a member of the community and trying to make things better.

I'm just thankful that, you know, that you've, you know, you've, you've come to terms with, you know, where you are in your life and still kind of looking for what that big thing is, that big next chapter. And I hope you figure it out, man, and find it. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having it. It was great. I appreciate Luke Kinkley on the Dale Jr. Download. All right. So that's the Luke Kikley interview.

I want to thank Ally for the guest segment every single week. They brought us a great ally this week with Luke. He was awesome. covered a lot. We had a lot of notes and some things we really didn't get a chance to get to, but that was two hours. And I hate keeping people beyond about an hour and a half. But he was gracious with his time.

And I really did enjoy talking to him about his concussion experiences. And I know, look, man, that's a dark moment in his life. Probably not something that he eagerly looks forward to talking about. but he was gracious with his story. And so I was thankful for that. I'd love learning about some of the more unique moments in an athlete's career, the Combine or what he felt like when he first saw these three-star recruit, right? I mean, those must be some pretty cool moments, kind of like when you first see yourself.

on the cover of a magazine or something like that. It just, you know, it's, as a humble guy, it's not something you probably talk about very often, but he was really gracious. So I was thankful for that. Incredible dude, as I mentioned, has been very big for the Charlotte community over the course of the last several decades

and continues to invest time and effort into the community around him. And I hope he does for a very long time. And it was just really neat. Good, good, too, to break away, I think, from the racing stuff from time to time. And so I was thankful. But I do remember we talked about it right at the top end of the show. I got asked to go talk to the Panthers at training camp,

and we walk into this room, and it's an amphitheater, small sort of amphitheater, and the players are just right there in front of you in stadium seating. And you can see everybody in their giant, giant. people. And I was trying to share with them about avoiding some of the trappings of the internet or social media. There was a lot of conversation around a lot of things, but one in particular moment I was trying to like talk to them about going back at people on social media trolls, right? And, you know, how that can be, you know, you feel like you're doing the right thing or you're standing up for yourself, but it can be perceived different ways from everyone on the outside

and how, you know, do you go after somebody with a couple followers and no profile pick just because you're mad and you believe them, you believe them to be wrong. It's even worth it, right? Just let it go. It's something that I still deal with today. But I remember having that conversation with them and saying like, man, it's just best to not even fool with it. You know, you're just bringing attention to something that doesn't have any attention other than yours.

And I'm standing there and I'm thinking, do they already know this? They probably already know this. I wonder if this is profound or not at all profound and am I wasting their time. But, you know, it was, I've never been in a room as intimidating as 85 NFL players in the middle of training camp. So, I don't know, fun. Thank you, Ally. no matter what you're saving for, whether it be race tickets, a car or a new home,

we're all better off with an ally. All right, it's time for the white flag dropping this past Sunday after the race at the Roval, the tear down with Jeff Gluck and Doramanchi, they react to everything that they saw and experienced over the weekend. Action is detrimental with Denny Hamlin. Denny doing his show right around the time that he learned of Alex Bowman's disqualification. He gives us the feedback on that and everything he experienced driving in the race on Sunday at the Roval.

Doorbopper Clear Gang, they got their show out much. Monday. They had a couple of special guests. Bob Pockers and Lee Diffey. Yeah, I was thankful that I talked to Lee and I knew he was going to be on the show. I didn't know Bob was dropping in, but that's pretty awesome. A unique episode of Doorbop Clear you won't want to miss. And then yesterday, Dirty Air with TJ, we recap the Roval. And today's Speed Street with Connor Daly and Chase Holden drops out. Tomorrow, DJD Relo with Asch Jr. and Moore. And Dirty Mo Doe, they're going to give you the best for this upcoming race at Las Vegas.

And remember to leave us a five-star Apple review, we promise that we'll read them on the show, and this is one from T.Marsh 75. The Kenny and Kenney Show, a podcast we didn't even know we needed, but waited a long time for. Excited to have them as part of the Dirty Mo Media family. I still think it needs to be named Stacking Kenny.

I'm telling you. All right. Everybody, have a great week, and tune in tomorrow. DJD Reloaded and Dirty Mo Doe. goodbye. See you. Check out Dirtymoe media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.