The Dale Jr. Download - BJ McLeod Was Once Labeled the Next Jeff Gordon

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with one of the hardest-working members of the NASCAR garage this week, longtime racer and car owner BJ McLeod. After finding his roots in the Florida super late model scene, BJ took lessons he learned early on in his family’s fertilizer and orange harvesting company to successfully assemble a fleet of NASCAR entries. BJ’s racing start came through years of go-kart barnstorming up and down the East Coast with his father, before acquiring special permission to enter the late model ranks at the tender age of 12. Through mentoring from legends Pete Orr and Gary Balough, BJ became a terror at Florida strongholds like New Smyrna and Orlando Speedworld. He’d win the coveted World Series of Asphalt in 2010, and it was time for the next challenge. That next challenge came in the form of the world of NASCAR. BJ put together rides in the Trucks Series before taking on the O’Reilly Series with his own team. When the opportunity to purchase a charter and go Cup racing came about, BJ partnered with fellow racer and businessman Matt Tifft to roll the dice. He would make the financial decision to sell the charter to Spire Motorsports, but still aspired to embark on a Cup racing career, which he independently financed from his other businesses like the Pigeon Forge Racing Coaster. Today, BJ remains one of the hardest-working owners and drivers in racing, akin to 1992 NASCAR Champion Alan Kulwicki. His conversation with Dale covers his humble beginnings, championship years in late models, and fulfilling his unique dream of being a driver/owner in NASCAR. Arby’s Meat & 3 box is available for a limited time at participating locations while supplies last. Prices may vary. Get your Meat & 3 box at an Arby's near you today. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. You're Dale Jr. Should I say it? It's Dale Jr. podcast, I've got to say it. Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. The guest segment here, and we got a great one coming in today. Somebody I wanted to have on the show for quite a while.

B.J. McLeod, this guy, he's like an independent on the NASCAR circuit. He's had quite a story coming into the truck series. spot rides here and there, finally developed an Xfinity team that he owned himself into a full-time program, buys a portion of a cup charter, and goes cup racing. Sells it years later, makes millions of dollars. But he's still out there trying to compete today. Where did this guy come from? What is his racing history?

What is his level of success? Can he drive a race car? Has he won races? I don't know that we all understand the answers to those questions. I certainly didn't. But the more I hear about B.J. McLeod, the more intrigued I am, this guy, he doesn't look like the typical cup racer. He doesn't dress like the typical NASCAR racer.

He doesn't try to. He's authentically himself. And I want to know more about him. And I'm sure you do as well. There are some fans out there, I'm sure, that are very versed on his story. but there's a lot who aren't and we're going to learn today. Where did this guy come from? How did he get his start?

And what's he up to these days? What's the future for BJ McLeod and live fast racing? So let's get started. Let's get him in the room. Thanks for being here at the Arby's Studio. It's going to be a great show. Don't forget about the Arby's meat in three box. You get more meal for your money at Arby's.

We have the meets and we got a great show for you today. Let's get going. So Burton, Darwin, McLeod, Jr. Yeah. And so born in Florida, 1983 in November, what did your family do? What did your dad do? What'd your mom do in Florida? What were there?

So, you know, go all the way back. My dad actually borrowed, he worked at a mechanic shop, saved up $250 in 19, I think, early 70s, late 60s. and had a friend loaned on another $750, and he bought a spreader truck and started spreading fertilizer and orange grows in central Florida. So he started his business with that and, you know, met my mom. And they built it into, you know, they had some over-the-road trucks. They got up to, I think the most every habit is about 10. But the bulk of their business was picking and hauling, picking the orange is off the tree, put them in the tubs, load them in the trailers and carry them to the plant.

So they got up to picking and hauling about two to two and a half million boxes of oranges a year. And that's the business they had when I was born. So I, you know, I spent a lot of time. I was very fortunate that my parents owned a small business. And I got, as long as I can remember, I've been intrigued and wanted to be in the middle of anything that moves or, you know, it doesn't matter what it is. So I remember being four or five years old and being at the shop while mom is handwriting 300, paychecks. Like, I mean, I can, I remember that like it was yesterday and, and watching my dad work, you know, leave before daylight and come back well after dark and, and making, you know,

making a living. And it was, it was a lot of fun to be raised in that. And, you know, the, the racing side of it is my dad only borrowed the money for the spreader truck because he wanted enough money to work on his street car because he street raced. So it was, it was pretty cool to hear the stories of him. They used to, they used to grudge race and do all that stuff. He started that. He probably started that in 60 or 61 somewhere in that area and, you know, and street raced all the way up into the early 70s. So it was, he was just really trying to make money so he could race. Yeah. You initially quit school in the seventh grade and you did homeschooling. Like you didn't just drop out. No, no. I did, like I said, it, you know, before 10 years old,

I remember going to the theme parks and being born and raised, Central Florida, you just frequently go to Universal and Disney. If you're, you know, if you're fortunate enough to, and luckily my family was, you know, very good to me. And, you know, I had those opportunities. So I remember going around those theme parks thinking, man, I want home one of these. I had no idea that they cost billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah. So it's just funny to think about that stuff. And, you know, being at being at the shop and seeing everything and seeing people make money.

And I was, you know, stuck in school all day. And honestly, you know, I was a straight A student. I was in the Honor Society, all that stuff. Really? Yeah, all the way up, you know, until I quit, which is only seventh grade. But still, it's like, it just truthfully, if you assert yourself, it wasn't that hard. So it's like, I've, you know, I told my parents, I was like, I want to make money. Like, I'm, there's stuff I want.

You got to think, though, I started, I drove my first super late at 12 years old. I tested at Arbondale Speedway. And, you know, I already had 300 go-kart wins plus. I had 20 some championships plus WK titles. Like my parents, they really, I was racing three different classes a day, three days a weekend. Wow. Where? So it would start.

Literally, my parents would pick me up at school at, like, let's say noon on a Friday. My dad would drive through the night to get me to South Carolina or North Carolina to race behind the speedway, Columbia, South Carolina, Palmetto, South Carolina, just, you know, all these places. and he would drive through the night. We'd race on Saturday, run at least three classes. Then he would load up and drive me back to Florida, and we'd race three classes at Arbondale on Sunday, and they'd give me back to school on Monday.

That's literally the dedication that my parents had when I was a kid. Tons of success. Yeah, well, it's just my dad, I remember going, first time they took me to the little speedway behind Charlotte. I got up here with these guys in WCA, and in purple plate, blue plate when I was, you know, that age, it's a lot of drafting and a lot of pushing and bumping and you got to be pretty aggressive and take holes

just like we see on Sunday now you can't you got to be aggressive right and I got used up pretty bad and was way too timid and dad told me he's like if you ever drive like that again we will never be back. He's like and they loaded me up and took me to a dirt track him and one of his best friends and they knew the dirt racing in Florida was a little bit

rougher than the asphalt racing so they took me there and they said you don't finish find somebody and run over them like start something and I was like I didn't want to do none of that, right? But my dad was trying to teach me how to be tough and to, you know, make things happen. And sure enough, I went out there and, you know, I remember they told me they'd get me a beer if I'd wrecked somebody. And I was like, I don't want a beer anyway.

But the funny part was I went out there and wreck someone and they were happy with me, right? Yeah. And it's like, you know, but we went back to Charlotte. And I just have always, I'm a very, I drive how I want to get drove kind of guy. And, you know, I, the thing was when we went back to Charlotte, I finished third or fourth, something like that. And this is WK. I mean, this is really hard races to run good in. And I just remember making my way and not getting used up like I was before. And I did it in a clean way, but I was still aggressive.

It made it known that I wasn't going to be pushed around. And that was something that, you know, my mom and dad, especially my dad, if we weren't going to be competitive, he would not go. He would quit. it was always every single week I had to earn my way. Like he never, like he was, he was, you know, he had my back in the things that mattered, but it was simple performer, don't go. Like it was, he wasn't going to waste his time because he loved to drive too. Like he would, he'd drag race.

If I wasn't going to be serious, he'd just go drag race, right? So, you know, it just, I felt like, you know, I had to fight for that. And then honestly, I watched, you know, as I got older 14, 15, and I'm winning in super Lates and I think the year I was 14, we won 23 races in Super Lates and finished top two 50, top, it was top two 53 or 52 times between running Friday, Saturday at Orlando, New Samarana, Sunday sometimes at Braden, which is now the Freedom Factory, like just running all over the place. So, you know, I got, I had a lot of success and, and, you know, I just, I remember seeing an interview sometime around that time with your dad about, you know, R.C. and being at, you know, at

children and stuff and how with all of his success and everything he had accomplished and knowing that he had nothing to truly worry about it was he felt like every week he got in the car he had to prove that he belonged there right and it's like when i saw that i just every time i get in the car i remember it right it just it just stuck with me when i seen that interview because you know someone with that level of success that still shows that level of commitment and especially this is 98 or 99 i mean it's you know he's up there in age right and and he still thinks like that and It was something that I'll never forget. Yeah.

Talk about racing super late. So who's helping you and, you know, you won a lot of races, had a lot of success racing, the short tracks in Florida. But who was supportive of your program outside of your parents? Yeah. So really, the first person I remember was Pidor. They hired him. He was, you know, he ran a couple of Bush Series races back then. but they hired him to kind of show me the ropes when, you know, my dad, my dad had a friend

Randy Warren that you know, literally practiced with me the first couple of times. And then once we figured out that I was going to be able to drive and go to do it, that's when he went and found Pete Orr. And he's like, hey, Pete was winning a lot around there at that time, him and David Russell. And he said, he's like, I need you to help BJ get up to speed. And Pete Orr was my first driver coach. And I was 13 years old when we got together. And then another one that sticks out as Gary Ballou. Yeah. It was,

he's a character. It was really cool to get to work with him. And the things I learned from that guy with defensive driving and the way you restart different things, it was a lot of fun. So, you know, I had those guys to really kind of shape the beginning. And, you know,

I think the biggest thing is getting to race against, you know, David Rogers and Wayne Anderson and Dick Anderson and Mike Garvey and the list just keeps going, right? Like the Central Florida Super Late Model Racers. And then, you know, Southern All-Stars in 1999 and those guys, it just, it just, I got to race with some really tough, hard, old school racers. And I was a kid, right? Like, I was 15 when I ran Southern All-Stars and 14, the first time I race Gary Ballou, right? So it was, it was really cool to learn that stuff that young and be in that atmosphere and see the, see the level of commitment from those guys.

Yeah. We had Gary come on the show. and his book, Hot Shoe, is a really good read talking about his life. I mean, I'm sure did you get an opportunity to ever ask him about his past and all the challenges? Oh, yeah. Just unbelievable what that guy put himself through. Yes. And he's still around to tell us the stories today.

You won the track championship in your rookie year at Orlando? So in 97, you go run some ASA stuff, Jennerstown, Southern National. Youngest driver to qualify and compete in the ASA ranks. One, your first late model race at Orlando Speed World, youngest driver in the country to win in late models. You mentioned the All-Star Series in 98. In 1999, you were heralded as being a potential next Gordon

in the Daytona Beach News Journal. But I had never heard your name or really knew who you were until you got into the Xfinity series, right? And I had no idea that you had done all of this. And I don't think that a lot of people do. Like when we're on our broadcast and you're in a race or you're around and we're going to mention you and talk about you,

people will say, yeah, this guy won a lot of races in Florida, racing late models. But nobody ever really goes into detail about it. And I think a lot of our current younger fans know you mainly from your experience in racing in Cup and Xfinity as a car owner as well. but you legit like won some badass big late model races against really really tough competition you're not often out there boasting or talking about that but you did it like that was you you you did all those things

it's such a contradiction almost of that person and the person you are today You're living up, you're in a whole different arena these days, and it's tougher. But you don't seem to mind your plight. You don't seem to mind your objective and your goals, and you don't understand what those are, and they're measured and calculated. But talk about, like, you know, what it, first off, I guess, take me through the, how much you enjoyed racing,

at that level in super late models, having success. What did you believe was your dream at that time? What was your path? Where did your vision? Where did your vision have you going? Yeah.

I mean, if you go back to the beginning of super late, I mean, my entire life, so five years old, I actually want to be an Indy car driver. Yeah. Then I've turned eight and started growing. And that 10, I was 5-8 and 185 pounds.

And I was like, you know what? I'm going to let's go to NASCAR route, right? So I just felt like I fit more in NASCAR. And especially back then, you know, most of the guys were big guys, right? So I, you know, I really dreamed of being a NASCAR from, you know, before 10 years old, right? Probably around 7 or 8. But, you know, I was always wanting to go there, had no idea at that age what it takes to make it to this level. Really just focused on what my parents, you know, had me.

which, you know, was go-karts then and switched to super late models. And, you know, I started winning in superlates and everybody's telling me that, you know, I can make it, I can do this, I can be a NASCAR. And I kind of thought that you just get there, right? Like you just keep winning and eventually you'll be there. And, you know, I kept winning and I never, never made it to NASCAR, right? And there was a point where, you know, I had a couple interviews. I come up here a couple different times for different stuff.

Like what? So I got, I actually tried out for the Herzog ride when Jimmy was moving Hendrick. And they did like a combine type deal where, you know, you went to Concord and drove the car, drove the ASA car. And then if you did well enough there, you were going to get to race it. And, you know, I went up and there was like nine different drivers. I remember the car I got in, already had the back bumper smash. Somebody put it in the vents.

And, you know, I remember parking on Pit Road after the test. I did 705 laps straight. And I still remember I varied two laps, I varied two tents. And I never been on Concord. But two laps, I varied two tents. and the other 73 laps of varied 400s. And I hadn't been an ASA car and, you know, probably three years at that point. But anyway, I remember parking on Pitt Road and Howie Letto walked up and he's like, put the

one in that down. And he's like, how'd you like to race Nashville? And I was like, I'd love to race Nashville, right? So they took me to Nashville and, you know, we were third quick in practice. And it's weird how you remember this stuff, right? Like, that's 20 years, 20 plus years ago. So anyway, third crack in practice, went out to do a mock run. somebody spun and then I parked

just to just to slow down to miss them and I got ran over Travis Kittleson actually hit me running like 80 or 90 mile an hour destroyed the car and we had we had a bad backup and bottom line I finished 18th or something in the race had a meeting with Herzogs after the race

they wanted me to come test the actual bush car back then I think it was at Kentucky they were doing a test and then there was some kind of misalignment when we left that's really you know an odd situation because I was getting told by, you know, like their agent, they had, they had their own, like, agent people that worked with them. They were communicating with me, and then I had an agent as well. And, you know, they were going back and forth. And it was like, they wanted to offer me the ride that Bodon actually ended up taking. Todd took it. Or, yeah, it was Todd took it. And, you know, they offered, they told me, even told me a money amount, you know, amount of years. Like, they were getting a contract. And, and the last conversation I had was it was like something.

about I had to fire my agent and sign with, with, you know, this group. And I don't, it wasn't, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what was going on. I don't really know. I just know what I was told, right? And I was told I had to sign with, with these other agents. And I just, you know, the way I was raised and the things I did, I just, you know, I was, I wasn't, I just wasn't going to fire my agent. Bottom line, like it had nothing to do with the money. I had drove the car for free. I could make money to eat. Like, I had no worries about that. Truthfully, my entire life, I just know I'll make money. So it was more about I'm not going to step on the guy that got me an introduction because I had been winning in super late models until this agent come to me.

It was Jay Schultes. Until he come to me, I didn't ever get a chance. And he got me literally come to me. And in a month I had an interview inside of Herzog's building, right? So, you know, I went and I just told him, I said, you know, I would, I said, I don't mind if it's about a percentage thing. You guys can take your percentage. He'll take his percentage.

I'm going to keep him, but I'm not signing with y'all with the agency. And I never got a phone call back. And it really just all ended right there as far as that one goes. And to this day, I am thankful I made that decision. I have zero regret, even knowing that, you know, Todd won, I think a race or two in that car. And could have changed the whole landscape of me being, you know, 42 years old with zero wins. And really, I think I got two top tens to, who knows, if I got in that car, I may have ended up being a successful truck driver, you know, getting several wins.

I don't want to go back and redo it. I'm 100% happy with the decision I made. So, you know, anyway, after that, ended up coming up and talking to Germain at one point, I think, in 2005 or 06, and really just couldn't ever put the money together to get a deal. For their truck? Yeah, for their truck. Yeah, when I think they had just started, it was Toyota. I remember that. And just couldn't put the deal together.

So same time, you know, 0304, 040. I had been working in my parents' business since I was 12, did homeschooling, finished that, actually enrolled back in high school, got a real diploma, not the GED, the equivalency test or whatever. I actually got a real diploma. So I finished all that. And, you know, I was sitting there working for my parents. I did everything. I changed semi-tyres.

I changed microjets in the Orange Grove, like literally the irrigation in Orange Grove, that it has one microjet under every tree. And you're talking thousands of trees. I would go out there and spend weeks changing microjets, right? Like I've done that, changed semi-tires. I have rebuilt Detroit semi-engines. I've done everything you could do. And I am, you know, I'm 18, 19 years old at this point. Hurricanes come through Central Florida, tear it up.

Really, we had Hurricane Charlie was the worst. And it destroyed like a whole line of about 20 miles through Central Florida. So I, you know, I'd already met Jessica at this point. my wife now, you know, my parents had, and I had started a little, you know, excavating company where we just went and bought, we, you know, I had a couple tracos and excavators and front-end loaders and bulldozers, things like that. We just, you know, kind of got one of each to just start going that route. Well, when the hurricanes come and tour everything up, there were so many demolition jobs. And at this time, you know, Jessica, she called me one day and she's like,

do you want to do get a demolition license and see if you can go get some work? And I was like, How much is it? And she said, 50 bucks. And I was like, yeah, I said, let's do it. I said, I'll talk to mom and dad, rent the equipment from them and we'll go do it. So that was the first thing her and I did together. And we grossed half a million dollars in six months. And I was 19 years old. And it's like, I, you know, I just remember going after it and working. And I took about probably five or six months off that can go to the racetrack. It was really bad down there at that time. And, you know, I remember my first race back. And it was like, I could pay for it. Like, I didn't have to have mom and dad pay for it.

So it was pretty cool and I remember that. And at that point, I just hadn't, I hadn't ever had anything develop and anything up here that wasn't a lot of money. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to win super late model races. Like I have so much, I always will have so much respect for everyone that races at the regional level in every class.

Like it doesn't, if you go to the racetrack and race on a Saturday night and work on your car and unload it and bust your ass to go win, like you got my respect right so it's you know i i was happy to stay there and win and and just go for it and you know i think um you know we we won probably another 40 or 50 races from 2004 to 2010 and when i was sitting there on the front stretch um you know with the take i remember this like it was yesterday i was taking pictures for one in the world series and that was a dream of mine like it's really hard to do right and it's and it's and it was a dream and

it's like wow this is this is like it was so cool for about five seconds. And then my mind takes over that I'm, you know, I just like being driven and trying to make stuff happen. And I'm looking around and I'm like, I can't feed my family with winning this race. Like I can't, you know, I can't further my life from,

from accomplishing this in my opinion. Like it was just, it was so cool. And it's still the coolest thing I've ever done, like performance wise on the track. The World Series is the best to me. Winning that at New Smyrna, the best thing I've done, right, as a driver.

But it's still, you know, it was, I just saw it as, okay, well, we accomplish this. Now we need to accomplish something that we can't. Right. And that's, you know, my car owner asked me that night at that point, he said, hey, what would you do if you could do anything the rest of the year? And I said, right now I would sell early models. I would round up enough money to go run one truck race. And he's like, if that's what you want to do, do it. So I literally, like the next month got a meeting with Mike Leman Singer, Mike

and junior and went and talked to them about building a truck because as much as I'd won, I just didn't believe in myself to go when, you know, in a top tier truck because I just know how hard this stuff is. And I was like, I want to go race a truck that I own that's more affordable, get some seat time and then try to do that, right? And I talked to my Coleman Senior and he's like, if you'll work here every day. At Jermaine? Yeah, Jermaine. Yeah, it was a Jermaine. They hired you? No, I would do it for free. You work there for free. Yeah, worked there for free. And And they built my truck. So we paid for material, right?

They supplied to labor and built me a Craftsman Series truck for October Martinsville that year. It was 2010. And I worked every day with everybody there, seven to whenever. I tore down. I took Todd's trucks apart, did to tear down on them. And then I'd work on my truck whenever they had time to work on it. And, you know, it was really fun because, I mean, I did everything, sweat floors,

clean bathroom. I did everything you could do in that shop. And at this time, you know, I did have a successful. business. Like we were, Jessica and I, you know, we're, we've been, you know, we're, what, six, seven, eight years into it at this point. And, and I wanted to go do this. Like, I wanted to. Because it's something I never accomplished that I wanted to. Yeah. So that's, you know, that was my way in. And the, the Hillman family, the entire family and the Jermaine family were the ones that got me going up here. Like, without them, I'm not here, bottom line. Like,

there was nobody else to go, you know, make this happen in my opinion. hang in. It was the only relationships I had. And, you know, they, you know, I remember Steve and Jermaine and Jack Jermaine. I actually driver coached Zach. Back in, I think he ran K&N from 10 to 12 or something like that. You know, I, I driver coached him. And I just did what I could to get in here and network and, you know, build the right relationships to be able to move forward in sport. Hey, this is Dellenhart Jr. And for all the latest Dale Jr. download gear, including the I'm old drink some beer t-shirt. been talking about here around the office, head over to shop.dirtymomedia.com for all the latest

merch. So before we transition from your life in Florida and then you moved up into this area eventually to do more racing at the top, you know, the top three skill levels of truck and Xfinity and so forth, I want to talk about your style. Yeah. So, um, um, you know, um, you know, When you, when I think I first saw you walking down pit road in your suit at an Xfinity race or a rally race, or maybe you're a truck racing, you stand out. Yeah. You don't look like the other drivers. Not anymore.

What do you mean, not anymore? I think if I got here in the early 90s, I might have been, you know, I might have fit in a little bit more. But it's not hard to pick me out now. Right. Have you, so your affliction, black, hat backwards, skull. Has that always been you? Yes.

So, like, give me top three concerts. You know, I've only been the one in my life. Give me the top three go-to. So to go-to? Definitely corn. I went to Metallica. That was my first one, right? That tracks.

Yeah, but corn for sure. Jonathan's been in this room. Yeah, I like. He hasn't been on the show, but he's come toward the shop once. Well, so in my life, I have never like, I don't know what you'd call it. Like, I was never been starstruck, right? And I saw him at Vegas. I was racing the cup race.

Yeah. I saw him walking through the garage at Vegas. And I'm like, I'm going to get a picture. Right. Like, I ran up to him. I'm like, dude, can I get a picture with you? He didn't even know I was driving a cup car, right? But it was like, yeah, man.

I'm like, dude, I've listened to music. Your music has helped me when I was broke or, you know, whenever things are hard. Like, it just, it just motivates you, right? So their songs are very motivating. Yeah, absolutely. So him and then I've really taken a like and I've always liked Hellstorm Lizzie Hell but I at least recently like I'm like I really want to go to one of our shows like I'm definitely you know I've just I've just started thinking about it. When you were racing super late models back home when you were young is this your style? Oh yes this is my style when I was 12 and so but did you sort of tame it down when you came north or came yeah when you went up north?

No. Yeah. That's that was the advantage to not dealing with whatever. went on back in 01 with the Herzog thing. I remember they made me wear polo shirts and all this. I was dressed up and I did it and I would be thankful to do that. To be clear right now, if someone said, hey, we want to take a chance on a 42 year old. We want you to drive for us.

Yeah, you do it. We need you to wear polo shirts when you, you know, this, that, and another. I'll do it. I do it in a heartbeat to win. Yeah. I'm not doing it to run 30th. I'm going to dress how I want. Yes.

Right. Well, there ain't many people walking around the garage that are that are dressed like you. and maybe there would be more if they could. But I always thought that you stood out, which I have similar taste in music, but it does make you unique. And I think that you appreciate that. You wear that as a badge of honor, I think.

Yeah, I think what I like to do, because especially now I'm in the position that I can. And I honestly didn't worry when I should have. and now I don't have to worry, right? But it's like, I want to do it for everyone to say, hey, you know, we, you know, you have your time, but you're at work, right? Like you, you know, I'm just going to say Ryan Blaney, right? He's at work on a Sunday. You got to do what your partners need you to do.

That's right. But he's still Ryan Blaney, right? Like, he's still different. He's still, you know, got to worry about him. He does. It's like that's a great. That's a great comparison. And that's what I want everyone at home to know, like, no matter what corporate job you got or what, you know, manager position or whatever, right?

You go, you go cover your tattoos up if you have to, right? Like, that's life. Sure. But when you leave, be yourself, right? And then when you ever chance you got, make sure everybody knows who you really are. That's awesome. Like that's what I do. So you came up, did you move here when you decided, obviously, that you wanted to go truck racing and leave behind the, you know, the late model stock or the super late model stuff that you were doing?

Did you move up here? So we got a, first thing we did was get a condo. And I had exit 25. over there, like close to the lake. And that lasted about two weeks because I've grown up on, the smallest land I've been on five acres, right? And I've never had somebody stomping around above me. So I was like, I'm out on this.

So we found a town home because I'm like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I don't want nobody walking around above me. So I switched to a town home pretty quick. I think it lasted two months on the condo. And switched to a town home. But I still, my driver's license is Florida, my primary homes. Florida. Yeah, we just, we just spend.

you know, extra time we spend in Florida when we're working, we're up here. So, I mean, we're up here a lot. But, but,

what all remains of your family business, the excavating business, your dad's business, the place you grew up, the shops, all the things, what all remains back in?

So we actually, everything, excavating business went away whenever, um, Jessica and I left, uh, you know,

I started focused on the race and deal in 2010. Um, the picking and hauling, they kept that going for a couple more years. then kind of shut that down and, and mom and dad really just relaxed. And, and, you know, they, honestly, my dad loved to drive a truck. Are they still in the same area? Yeah. So mom, mom actually stays up with him here with me now. Dad passed away a year ago. So it's like, I'm just kind of got her close to me that way. He can keep an eye on her. He passed away recently.

Yeah, and the last March. Yeah. Yeah. That was tough, man. Like I, that's not, not this is something you got to learn. Was it was, was, how old was he? He was 79. And, and, you know, it's, it's really odd because, you know, he was very, very active mobile. Like, I was just about to say he loved to drive a semi, right? Like, he's had a CDL, his whole, I never lost the CDL. So, you know, they would drive trucks back then and, and, you know, in between, after they got rid of the picking and hauling business, they would drive a truck and, and come to my races. Like, that's, they helped us with the business when we, when we started the, you know, the Xfinity series at that time, they, they drove the truck. Like, my dad, my dad drove the truck for, for the

truck deal, the Canaan deal every now and then. And then some for the for the Xfinity deal. So it was, you know, they were just a part. I tried to have them around as much as I could. And that was a lot of fun. And, you know, I think in 2020, I had a chance to buy the shop that, you know, I grew up in that the race team was, my super late team was run out of. And the problem with my dad is if I bought it, he just stayed there and been working all the time.

And I wanted them to come up here because, Jessica, I've been fortunate. We've got property up here and we got, you know, an extra place. to and and I wanted him to come up and spend more time with me like during the race season. So it, uh, you know, it's kind of like we sold that so we don't have that race shop anymore. Um, we still have our, our, my original home, the one I was, I was raised in. Yeah. We have it. It's not going anywhere.

We have, we have family land. Um, it's not mine. And it's my aunt and uncles and my mom and dads. Um, we have that. And they actually acquired that. And I think their grandparents got it or their great grandparents for like seven son and acre in 1850. in central Florida, right? So it's pretty wild to have that. And that stuff's not going anywhere.

Like that, that'll be, that'll be in the family forever. So, you know, that was, that was all good. And then, you know, it's, it was, I'm really fortunate that I was able to, you know, have things go the way they did. End up starting a cup team and, you know, things working out and being in a position to have my parents up here during race season. And they would stay in a house, stay in a house up here on the property. We bought, we bought Hutt Strickland's old place. Who? Hutt Strickland's old place. Yes. So we got it and it has a, you know, a couple of extra houses on it.

And they would come up there and stay. And we had a lot of fun. And, you know, like I said, it's, you know, it sucks losing, losing them. But it's, you know, you just got to look at what we did together and what all, you know, he did. You know, for me, it's just unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. It's something that all of us know we're going to have to go through at some point.

and none of us can really get prepared for losing a parent, and we have to kind of make the best of it, you know, and to your point, like, move forward. I want to kind of go back to getting your feet wet in the truck series. Was the, you know, what was so challenging about that? You know, compared to coming out of super late models, you'd had to, you'd mastered, you know, You could be competitive.

Anytime anybody, myself included, gets in one of the top three levels of NASCAR. Trucks didn't exist for me back in the 90s. But, you know, it was humbling and tough. And you're like, man, I think I'm in a pretty decent car here. I can't do the things that these other guys are doing with it. Like you'd watch, you know, Jeff Burton and Mark Martin on restarts, the initial start of the race. It was, I'd be, I'd start like 15th.

and watch Mark Martin and Jeff Burton at the initial start of a race at Michigan and just be in awe of how they could just knife through the field like it was nothing. Yep. And that is why I have never stopped trying because I have so much respect and I'm just mind-blown every time I get in one of these races, right?

Like it's just, it is unbelievable what the people that are lucky enough to get to do this every single week, what they're capable of. And in that time, you're right. Mark Martin legend, you know, Jeff Burton, like same. It's just these people, they're so good at what they do. And I think, you know, for me, I remember practice, the first truck race I ever ran, I pull up to, you know, luckily, you know, I was with, I was basically like a fifth

terrain truck, right? Like it was a Chevrolet, but it was, it was, you know, it was set up out of their shop. They had clearance to do it. And it was a really good truck. And, you know, I remember they were very well organized. They had me first to go out to practice. So back thing, you didn't have to wait to get in line. Just whoever wanted to go went, right?

So they have me first, and I pull up there, and I'm like, man, all right, this is good. I got a clean track and run out there and just, you know, try to get a little hole. And Ron Hornaday pulls up behind me and Todd Bodine pulls up next to him. And I'm like, no way. Like, this is not good. So I tried to get away from them. Couldn't get away from them. They passed me and ran off from me about half a straightaway in probably three laps.

Like, I mean, it was so, it wasn't mind-blowing because I, expected it. But it's like so, you know, it's like a very, you know, big, like just jolt that you're like, wow, this is, this is real. Right. Yeah. And it just took me a little bit to get up to speed and, you know, figure it out. Because there's no ride around and warm up your tires and, you know, do the late model stuff, right? Like it's, it's literally catch fourth gear and sink it off in the one, right? Or, you know, three coming on, coming off turn two. So it's like, it just, uh, it was really an awesome feeling that I'll never forget getting, uh, getting to see them to and pull out there and made great progression over the weekend and ended up finished and

finished 17th no 17th lead lap so I was pretty happy with that. I would be yeah you just clean car and we were trying to take that truck to Phoenix to do the approval process right I had to go to Phoenix and it's like I couldn't wreck it so I was like you know restarts at martinsville with you know 20 to go and there were several of them I'm like all right just take care of it so without thinking about taking care of the truck no doubt I finished top done. Right. So yeah. We were in position to do that. But it was, you know, just had to be way too conservative. And, you know, it was a lot of fun getting to, getting to do that. Yeah. You made your Xfinity series debut in 2015 with Rick Ware. I saw Rick this weekend

at Nashville. Had some break problems. You ran a lot even in trucks with SS Greenlight, MBM, different teams. You made your cups. series debut in 2015. So to recap, truck series debut in 2010, ran some truck races part-time, a couple of Xfinity starts, and then right into the Cup series Circle Sport at New Hampshire. And then you set out for a full-time Xfinity series campaign in 16, driving with your own team. Where a lot of guys come in.

and if they're fortunate, get these little spot starts. But they're always like thinking, I'm going to keep trying to get these opportunities and I'm going to land hopefully in a good ride. You want to drive for yourself. Like what triggered that? You know, I think we were, you know, I've thought about that a lot to answer it myself.

And it's like, you know, I really believe that it was more about making sure the business was going to succeed. And I was the best one to take care of the business. Just making sure that I was in the car and getting the most out of whatever equipment we had, right? And then taking care of it, number one, to keep paying payroll and make sure we didn't go out of business.

And at the same time, you know, proven that it was a solid team to come, you know, get experienced driving for, right? And, you know, a good budget for where we're at now in the series. So, you know, I never, I always wanted to go drive a competitive car. And I mean, looking back, it's like, I could have done it, you know, 15 or 20 times at least, you know, money-wise, like walked up and said, because the thing is you can't just take money and buy ride in this, in this, you know, these top three levels. Like, you have to, you have, people have to want you there too, right? Like, it's not, it's, yes, it takes money. But you have to have relationships with the teams and the owners and the people that work there. Like, there's, there's a lot of that. And I have that. I have a network in every single race team in this, in this, you know, in this sport. worked, right? So, you know, I think that it was more, I just got so focused on making sure that the business was successful that I really stopped thinking about me as the driver and focused on that. And I, you know, I did the cup deal in 2015 because I was rushing. I didn't want to not get to

drive one with more horsepower, right? Because I knew they were doing the horsepower, right? Because I knew they were doing the horsepower, you had to drop. And I was like, I'm like, man, I just want to drive. Like, I had to test for Furnisher Row. at Pikes Peak in 2000, I think it was 2010. And I got to drive the 1,000 horsepower motor, close to 1,000, right? And it was like, it was just incredible, right? It was one of the funest things I ever did. And then, you know, with seeing how the trend was going where the horsepower is getting

less and less, I was like, I want to make sure I get at least one cup start. And, you know, another thing was you and Tony and Jeff and everybody was there in 15, right? And it's like, you know, Tony had already announced, you know, it was going to retire. And, you know, you just, there was like a shift in, you know, people, legends, people that I'd watched growing up. And I was like, I just want to get on the track with it one time. Right. And it was like, that was another thing behind the start in 2015. Even though I knew I was going to run last or next to last, whatever.

I was like, I just want to get out there and go do it, right? And see what it's like. So, you know, we actually had a decent. We were okay that day for what we had. and had a lot of fun. But, you know, I think, you know, to start the Xfinity team in 2016, Jessica and I borrowed money. Like, we weren't, it wasn't just our money, right?

So, you know, we, I just felt like I had such an obligation to make sure that that all went correctly that I didn't, I would never spend a penny on me driving for someone else, even though I had cash flow. And at times I could have easily wrote, you know, $100,000 check to, to drive somewhere. I just, I didn't ever. Being in business, as long as I've been in business, there's always good times, there's always bad times. And I wanted to make sure I never got in a position that I couldn't service the loan that I had or, you know, take care of the people that took care of me because they all took a chance

on Jessica and I in the racing business, which you know as well as I do. It's very wild to take those chances. You talked about buying Hutt's old shop and you did all this in September of 2021. and you started you started McLeod Acres McLeod? Yeah. We named it McLeod Acres. There's a huge indoor RC track.

Yeah. What is that? So I love RC cars. I love anything racing. There was already one there? No. No, he had a party barn. And it was a really cool party barn.

I had booths everywhere, dance floor, disco booths like a DJ booth. Like, I mean, he had to set up. You'd never think that about Hutt. No, but the party I've been told they had out there are insane. And I was trying to figure out what to do with it.

And I was, you know, actually the guy that was helping me at the time, we were standing in it. And I was like, you know, we both loved RC cars. And, you know, he was kind of the caretaker for the property. And I was like, you know, I built an outdoor track. And I actually built it next to my house, which did not make Jessica happy because it was a clay track in the dirt. Whenever things weren't quite right, we'd go on the house. So, you know, I invited people over.

you know, like Justin Haley come over some. And, you know, there's several people that come over and race, you know, the RC cars with us on the clay track outside. But it rain would ever now and then mess up our plans. And I was like, you know what? If we put a bit of a racetrack in here, we don't have to worry about the rain. So that's literally when the idea was born. And I told Jeff was the guy helping me at the time.

I was like, what do you think about RC track in here? He's like, dude, if you do that, it'd be awesome. And I was like, go crank up the tractor. And I'm not kidding. You cranked up the tractor. I jumped in it. And I drove right through the building, started ripping stuff out. Wow.

That's how the RC track was born at our property. Is it a clay indoor track? No, concrete. Concrete. We do. Bank. Flat? No, flat.

Flat. Slick. It's, you know, it's not super slick, but it's, you know, it's about a five and a half second lap track, which is pretty, pretty comparable. Like any of your, you know, R.C. meets or anything. You need a professional track. So we did that. And we set up 10 workstations.

everybody's got their own individual place to work all the tools. And it's pretty cool. Yeah. I was in RC cars there quite a while. We had a, when I was racing with Tony Senior and Tony Jr. We had a bunch of RSC cars that we were messing with, gas powered stuff. You know, I know that you know Leonard Wood built some pretty special cars and had a couple of them. But we did quarter scales for a while.

Yeah. I haven't got the quarter scale is something I haven't got to yet. Yeah. I'm definitely. I like the quarter scale stuff because it's, slow and you drive it and it's got you know this everything's just larger so it kind of you can kind of watch the car function handle you know and you can change things and watch it like do what you want it it's to do and it drives and it runs it a bit of a slower pace so you kind of like feel like

you're really more of driving it than trying to like you the sum of the like 10th and 12 scale stuff is like just driving a missile on the ground the smallest thing I want to drive is 8th scale and I prefer fifth. Like I'm the same, those guys that drive the little 10th scale, which I have some 10th scale stuff, but, you know,

it's, I put 8th scale bodies on them, so it's a little bit easier to work with. Some of the 10th and even smaller 12th scale stuff, it's like the talent they have driving those things as fast as they go.

Like it's just not for normal. It's just not for normal people. And I'm a normal, I'm a normal person. It's like, I just want to have fun. It doesn't entertain me because you're basically

just trying not to destroy it. Yes. And it's just so, they're going. so fast. I set it up to where the one thing I'd learn about RC cars is there too much money whenever you get serious, right? And I made it to where like if you want to come drive one of my RC cars, you literally just come and drive it, right? Like it's all, every station has its own car. You just pick it up, put batteries in it, go play. I have my own part shop. I have every single

part made for tracks of slash. That's going to be the best part of the show. It's for learning this about you. It's fun. And it's not expensive. It's a very low cost. thing to do. You rebranded your race team to Live Fast Motorsports in 2021. Before we get to the cup side of you purchasing the charter with Matt Tith, one of the things I wanted to talk about was when you were running your Xfinity program, you know, our cars, we'll crack a quarter panel or chip a cord, you know, chip a fender or whatever. and our guys are pretty particular.

There are teams like yours would take those panels and get enough handful of races out of them. I actually walked into the lobby one day as you were coming out with a quarter panel or a couple parts in your hands. And I had no idea that you were even over here. Did you know I owed your money? No. I didn't think you did.

I was like, I went to Bummi that manages our program and he's like, oh, yeah, BJ comes by every now and then, picks up a couple of things. And so what my mind immediately went to was. Like, you know, I see you show up to the track, unload your race cars. You're maybe driving one, maybe you're not, but you've got one or two, three cars in the field,

and they go out there and they race and they go home. And that's all that I'd see. and when I now know in the moment that your boots on the ground going around and getting, you know, bargain parts and things like that, and you were literally itemizing the entire process of your race team. I felt like that was really profound because the, there's not, there's a lot of people that want to be here. there's a lot of guys that want to race cars in this series or in NASCAR in general. There ain't many people that want to do that much work to be there.

I was really, really impressed just with your... Because it didn't seem like you had to do it. Like you created a business that was successful. You left it in Florida. You had... Your family had a business. But here you are. you know, nickel and dimming and and shuffling this to make this, to add this, to put this here.

You're like itemizing and like literally going to get a quarter panel that one of your cars needs or can use. I was really, really impressed by that. Why was that, why, you know, and you seem like you were enjoying it. Absolutely. That grind of, you know, I would compare it to like the Dave Marcus of NASCAR. Like Dave was a talented race car driver, but he probably enjoyed running his own race team out of his own shot more than he ever did driving for anybody else. He had other rides with Ray Mock and drove for K&K Dodge for a while and different teams,

drove for Penske for a while. but I bet he probably enjoyed being able to drive, build, run, and operate his own race car more than anything. Bobby Allison did that often. He'd get disgruntled and not enjoy working for a race team, driving for an owner, and he'd go home. I'll go race my own car. And there's the independence, like the J.D. McD. Macduffies, the Jimmy Means.

And nobody gets to see how hard those guys are working, because the camera's not on them. the camera's on Dale Earnhardt, Darrell Waltrow. But I was, my best friend Brad Means, his dad Jimmy was an independent. And I would hang out with Brad and I'd hang out in their hauler and I'd see what they had. And I'd hang out in Dad's hauler and see what he had. And it was a very stark difference. And you seemed to enjoy that challenge of making payroll, running the business,

keeping it in the green and figuring out how to put the best race car you could on the racetrack doing all of those things. Talk about that process. Because I think that process is what leads you to your cup team. Oh, there's no doubt. Without it, we would have never had a cup team.

And it goes back to Alan Quickey, you know, 92, 93, wins championship. And I watched Alan. I mean, I was a huge fan kid, right, fan. And I watched him do that. And I felt like, you know, he wasn't turning every wrench, but he knew how to, right?

And it's like, it's his own team. And he went and won a Cup Series championship, right? And it's like, I had that in my head. And then I was actually never a fan of Dale Singer until probably about 98 or 99. And I was, you know, I was a Jeff Gordon kid whenever I was, you know, in that time. And I really started to pay that. attention to Del Singer, you know, maybe 97, right? Like, basically when I started super late models, it's when I really started watching him and seeing what he was doing. And really the way he

did, you know, owning a car and driving for a really good team and winning, I was like, wow, like that's, that's, and this is me as a kid. I'm 15, probably 14. And I'm thinking about that. I'm like, if I could ever get there, own cars, because then it's like, it keeps the business side of me intrigued, right? And then drive and have a chance to win, that's like, to me, the best case scenario for what I want. There's, there's drivers that want to go drive and win and go home, right? Yes. I'm not that guy. Like, I want to think about business from, you know, whenever I get up, whatever time that is, to honestly, I enjoy it until I go to bed. I won't let, you know, business conversation or, or things we're working on change mine and Jessica's

relationship because we do a lot of it together. But it's, you know, it's something that I enjoy. If I'm myself, I would prefer to be thinking about a business or something to do to make money than anything else. It's just what I like. So I, you know, I thought at that time, I was like, wow, I just, you know, hopefully I could end up owning a team and driving for someone else. And ultimately achieved that. It just didn't get the wins on track that I wanted. But, you know, ultimately, I did drive for myself, helped get that team going. And once, you know, B.J.M. McClaude Motors was going good and Xfinity. And, you know, we had drivers in every car and bills are paid. And honestly, we were kind of comfortable.

Johnny Davis said, hey, you want to drive my car? And I was like, I'd love to. And it was just one weekend. And then I drove like 70-some races for him, right? And it's like most fun I've had was getting the drive for him and then watch my cars, race my cars. Oh, man. And have just a small sample of what Dale Singer did. Yeah.

Right? Like it just, it was, to me, it was the best time in my career getting to do that. And Johnny Davis is another one. Like you, there is nobody that could out. work that guy, right? Like he wasn't a driver at this level, but team owner wise, you couldn't, you couldn't beat his work ethic, right? And it's like getting a drive for him and run on scuff tires and share a pick crew and finish 19th in the Xfinity series. We had a run of like 18 top 20s, right, in 2018 or 19. And, you know, to do that was a win for me. Like, I didn't have a trophy,

but it was like, this is kind of, this is exactly what I was trying to do. Yeah. Right. So that was, you know, the, all of that was all what laid the groundwork to think about a cup team, you know, and I, I'm not one that I never would ever take lightly what the Cup series means. And, and I know how hard it is. Like, I've been here, you know, a decade plus in Cup. And it's, you know, I know whenever we had the opportunity, when COVID came and, and everything was, you know, just everything was all over the place. you know, we were going to start racing like, you know, three or four times a week, you know, to try to make up races. And I had a really good relationship with Rick Ware. And he had, you know, he had, I don't know how many charters he owned at that time. But it was like, you just knit with him. He's always pulling something cool off. So I, all I remember is he told me he's like, hey, you know, if I, you know, if I, you know, if I rented the equipment, would you want to, you know, do your own thing for a little bit? And I was like, yeah. I said, we'll, we'll do it. We got an infrastructure. We bought our shop. The one we just. We just. We just. We just. We just.

just sold and moved over here closer to you. We bought that in 2017. And I was like, we got the shop. We got the equipment. I had three or four feather light haulers. Like, we build up pretty well. And I was like, okay. So we'll go try a couple open races and, you know,

make sure that it's something that we want to do that grind. Because, I mean, the cup grind is something else that it's very hard to understand until you're there. And I, you know, I told Rick, I was like, yeah, if you'll help us, we'll go do it. So we went to, I believe Darlington was our first ever race with actually BJ McClaught Motorsports at that time in the Cup Series. And we went and ran the race and had an okay day for us. I mean, you don't know wrong. We're six laps down.

I don't remember. But it was, you know, for what we could do and where the Cup series is at at that time, it was an okay day. So we did that. We ran, I don't know, a handful of races that the rest of 2020 as an open team. and I just knew that, you know, Jessica and I actually tossed around the idea of trying to buy a charter in 2016. I actually have a text on my phone that I went back and looked at after we bought the charter that was sent out to, you know, try to inquire about buying a charter then. And it just didn't work and, you know, didn't, you know, work. It didn't come together.

So, you know, I thought it was funny when we actually bought the charter in 2020. I thought it was funny to look back at that and see that we were trying back then. How did Matt Tiff come into the conversation? So, Matt, we started driver development in the super late model series. After I won the World Series in 2010 and I wanted to go try trucks, we had all this infrastructure. And we sold, I think, two of the late models, but I probably had at that time. I owned two or three myself.

And the guy I drove four, had three. So we sold a couple to buy the truck. We kept the rest. And we started a driver development team. So Matt Tift was the second driver I ever had for the driver development team. Oh, damn. And his dad actually, you know, it's, he was one of them that helped us start the Xfinity program. you know, when we needed, we needed help getting that going.

And, you know, I was, I was, I was friends with Matt since 2010. And, I mean, he's, he's, I think, 13 at the time. And, you know, we, you know, fast forward to 2020. And we're talking about this charter thing. And, you know, he's, I don't know, he's probably 20 something. I don't know. I can't remember. But anyway, the point is we were friends the whole time.

And I was close to his family. And we, and him and his dad and I had done business together. already. And I, you know, Matt, unfortunately, had a seizure. I think it was the end of 2019 at Martinsville. I believe that was when he had a seizure. And it derailed his driving career, right? And, you know, he's still trying to figure out what direction he wanted to go and what he was going to do. And didn't know when he'd be able to drive again. Like, all this stuff's just, I mean, that and COVID and everything is just up in the air. And I was at a movie theater with Matt and Dover. And I told him when we walked out, I was like, dude, we should just buy a charter together.

I'll turn and look and set it just like that. And he's like, yeah, that sounds like it'd be cool. And I was like, all right. So anyway, we kind of tabled it, right? And then, you know, fast forward, all that happens. 2020, we go try the open deal for a little bit. And I was like, okay, this is something I want to go after. I don't know that we'll ever be able to make anything of it.

But I want to give it a shot, right? And that's when I really started trying to do the get a charter was right after that. and that's how he was a part of it because I had a relationship with his dad already and Matt was looking for a business to be a part of because, you know, his driving career just got derailed. You bought half of a charter. Y'all attempted 28 cup events. You know, the, y'all would end up selling the charter to Spire in 2023. Looked like just a brilliant decision.

not only just to buy the charter, but then to flip it. Where, you know, when you own the charter, are you, you know, you're watching values change and you're hearing all the conversations around what's going on. Where's there hesitation to sell it? Not only because the values are going up, but also, you know, you're where you've, it's your foundation. It's, it's everything your cup team's built on. Yeah. Well, so it comes back to, you know, if you go back to borrowing money to start the Xenity team, right, to the point of having an asset that's worth the money we saw, right? It's, it was never hesitation. Like, we needed to solidify that we had won the owners, you know, the, the owner's business side, you know, it was making that transaction made sure that we were always successful in racing as a business, right? And that's,

That was the part that made it, you know, we never hesitated to sell it once the values were there. Genuinely, Matt and I's, you know, Joe Falk, Jessica, everybody's intention when we bought the charter, we totally believe in 100 million plus at some point. We did and always have. And I, you know, I actually think it's here right now. But we believed it was a 10 to 20 year, you know, run to get there. Right. Like we genuinely thought we were going to struggle and fight and do everything we had done in Accentity. and work to be here for two decades and then sell for nine figures.

Like we genuinely believe that was a real business plan. And, you know, I think when we fire off in 2021 and we had an average finish to 28th and we're out running five cars every week. And honestly, that's pretty good for me. Like that was for our own team and the Cup Series. Like, you're doing well. I mean, we're out qualifying some really good teams every week. Like, I mean, it just, it was really fun the first year.

And then, you know, we were super excited. for the next gen car and still a huge fan of the next gen car. But bottom line is it made it to where this, we just, it brought the attention to the sport that progressed the sport so quick in a short amount of time that the charters went from being what they were worth when we bought them to this massive amount of money in 24 months, right? And when that all happened coupled with, we actually struggled to get up to the speed with more with the next gen car than we did with the 106 car.

because I had a decades and a half worth of, you know, friends with the next, with the Gen 6 car, it was easier for us to be fast. The next gen car, my friends didn't even know what was going to be quick. Like everybody, everybody was, you know, just like I saw Denny do an interview and he's like, the circle was so big and he's right. Like it was, it was, the circle was huge that first year of, of, you know, disparity between the cars because everybody's trying new stuff. And in the cars are changing at the same time, like just working out bugs.

So, you know, that made 2022 not much fun, honestly. We didn't run as well as I wanted. In 2023, we spent more money. We actually spent millions more than we have ever spent. And we run worse average-wise, right? And that's something I'm not about. Like, if I don't show pretty, I could sit here for 20 years with one spot of progression every year, and I can live with that. Yeah.

Right. But when we worked harder, spent more money and went backwards, I'm out. Like, I had zero hesitancy. on getting rid of it whenever. Fortunately, the business plan did work out, even though the on track side didn't, right? So there was zero hesitation. The driver in me, the person that loves going to the racetrack every week

and seeing our NASCAR family, like, that was hard. I was wondering, that was kind of my next question is like, you know, when you sell the charter, you're selling your opportunity to be in the field. And that definitely changed how many races you would attempt, right? but you also said I want to race but I'm going to only race now that I have the opportunity

I'm going to I'm going to race in better cars and we saw that you qualified really well for the Daytona 500 this year and was running really well in the race till you had an issue and that was heartbreaking

it's so gut-wrenching you know what that race means and it's like it's for me it's just would you arguably say that was, would you argue that that might be the best competitive car you've been in? Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, we didn't qualify for the race.

We had our best qualifying effort, right? But, you know, I fire off in the duel and I'm running 30% throttle and I have zero interest or zero problem passing people, which we're all saving fuel, but I'm just saying you're still, so when I went up and lead in 2024, I thought I had a good car, I was almost 100% throttle, right? Like it still wasn't that good of a car. Now, you know, to go to February this year, and I'm literally looked down at Dash and I'm 30% throttle for the majority of the duel. And I'm just moving around and it's comfortable and easy to drive.

And I'm like, man, like, this is some good, like, we've definitely made some good progressions. And then go to Atlanta the next week. And, you know, we fired off a little too free, definitely on the right rear too much. And just kind of struggled to the first stop. we go to the first stop and made just made killer adjustments come out and drove from last to 23rd or 22nd. And it was not hard. Like I'm telling you, like, I'm driving the car and I'm like, this is like comfortable. Like I'm never comfortable.

My NASCAR career, I have less than a handful of times that I'm in a car and I'm not scared half the death that I'm going to be out of control. Right. So it's like it's, it was funny to be at that level, you know, racing with the cup guys and being up in the mix. and it actually was more comfortable. It was easier than what I normally do. So we have developed our equipment very well and the information we get and the things we have and that is for sure progressed.

But obviously falling out of the 500, something you can't get over. Man, you just never go when you're going to have a chance to run that race. And we got gifted into it. And then we lost the opportunity and that's hard. Yeah. When you sold the charter,

I wasn't sure what to expect that of you. I wasn't sure if the team would exist, what would your next objective be. And so that's the question, I guess, is like where, live fast continues. You've had, you know, multiple drivers drive the car since the charter cell. Catherine Legs ran a lot of races.

Y'all had a great run at Indy last year. And she's done a fantastic job. So what present, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, when you, when you're sitting there in January, do you know what the game plan is? Do you have the year mapped out? Or does your year sort of materialize over the course of the season? So it kind of changes every year. It's, it's, it's, it's, so 2020 when we, when we, when we sold the charter in 2023, yes, January 1st, I knew everything I was going to do. I wasn't going to, you know, you know, put anybody else in the car. I was going to drive it myself. see where we're at without a charter and without some of the connection we had you know see what we can do and you know our second race we go lead right which I know it's fuel mileage and there's savings

and everything but you still have to be in a cup series to be able to lead the laps right so we you know we had a great 24 in my opinion and the plan the whole time was to just see where we were as an open team and we're you know how are we going to how are we going to as a sports progressing

can we stay with the field right because it was hard when we had the charter. So 24 was just about that. With the goal, let me ask you, you're also racing without the guaranteed money from the charter. Oh yeah. Like that's a big difference. It's huge. Yeah. It takes, we lose money every time we go to the track. Well, how do you make, how do you, how do you, how do you pay your bills? Build businesses to pay for it. Okay. That's, that's the play. What businesses are you building? We, uh, we did the Pigeon Forge racing coaster was our first one. So we actually own an Alpine coaster in Pigeon Forge right now. We're part owners. We have partners over there.

But basically when we sold the charter in 2023, Jessica and I said we were going to take a couple months off. And we took off exactly about six days of not thinking about something and realizing we didn't have to. And we were down there. We got a lake house in Florida. And we were down there and we're sitting on the back porch. And her and I are both like, she's like, we got to find the next business. And I'm like, I agree.

Like, this is just boring. So I, we started talking. I knew I had a friend in Pigeon Forge. He's been there for 30, 40 years. And his son drove for me in Xfinity in 2017, Blake Jones. So Teddy Jones is his dad. So I've, Jessica and I, Jessica drugged me over to Pigeon Forge in December of 2020, really to have any interest in going over there, but didn't know anything about it.

And I went over there and I was like, man, this place is awesome. Like it just Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg, Severeval. It is an unbelievable fun. Great area. Yeah, it's just, it's like the Vegas of the East Coast without gambling, right? Like you just, anything you want to do is there. And it's fun, it's family-oriented and just a really good time. So she got me over there.

Well, then I got addicted to it and bought a cabin and a little bit of property over there. And we started going more regularly. Then we started seeing Teddy again because, you know, he was in that area and just basically sell the charter, try to figure out where could we take some capital and start something that's different. And this goes back to what I said earlier about being in central Florida with the theme parks and realizing that I can never afford to do one of those. but really having a passion for seeing people get off a ride and be happy. Like you either see somebody puking or they're happy. Like that's the two things you're going to get. You never see somebody mad and upset, right?

And that's what I told Jessica. I was like, we can afford to own something in Pigeon Forge. Like let's call Teddy and figure out something to own that makes people happy. Yeah. Right? And I called Teddy. The only person I had probably 40 people call me,

want me to start businesses and do stuff with them and whatever after we sold the charter. And Teddy's the only one that Jessica and I called. And I was like, hey, Jessica and I, you know, we've got a little bit of capital to work with. I was like, we really want to own something fun in Pigeon Forge that people get off and they're smiling, right? And I was like, I don't know if that's a go-cart track, if that's a put-putt golf, if that's, you know, a coaster. I said, I'd really like it to be a coaster, but I don't know, you know, I don't know if we can pull that off. And he's like, yeah, he's like, I built one three years ago. And he's like, I could build us another one.

And I was like, okay, well, let's, let's work towards that. So he called me in two weeks with a plan. And we just happened to be in town. And he come over and this is no joke, drew out like his idea of the track on a napkin. Okay. He had another napkin with like budget numbers. And he had another napkin with what he thought that it might produce. And we, we, we, I told, he's like, what do you think?

And I was like, I said, my instant answer is yes. But I've learned in business. I always wait 24 hours. Like I don't, I'll never make a big decision, which honestly, six to seven figures are higher without, you know, sleeping on it. I like to know how it feels when I wake up because that'll give me the true feel of where I'm going to head, whether it's going to be successful or not, because I'll be able to measure my determination and my drive behind it when I wake up the next day, right? So woke up, I said, I'm going to call you about 9 o'clock, but I said, you know, I feel like it's going to be a yes. And I called him about 7.30 to next morning. And I said, if you'll do it, we're in.

And so we built the Pigeon Forge racing coaster. It's been open June 19th. It'll be a year. And it's successful thanks to all the great people that come over to Pigeon Forge and enjoy the area and come ride our coaster. It's doing well. And it's been a lot of fun. And now I get to say I can't own the theme park, but I own one ride. Yeah.

It's in Pigeons? Yeah. So one of the things. We're looking at it right here. Yeah, absolutely. One of my stipulations for doing it was I would not settle for not being on the parkway. Like, I'm a tourist, okay, I was. I have owned property.

The highway, the main road. I don't know at what point I don't become a tourist because I've owned property over there for five years now. So I'm kind of ready to drop the tourist name. But like I told them from the beginning, I'm like, Jessica and I are visitors over here. Like we know what people want because we are those people, right? And I just, for me, the traffic gets really bad over there because there's so many people enjoy it. I was like, I don't want anything if it's not on the parkway. Like I, and the parkways, you know, it spans from Severeville through Pigeon Forge all the way to Gatlinburg.

And I was like, we got to find a spot on the parkway. So that's what took a little bit of time. And that's when he called me. He said, hey, I've got a person that I think will sell if you're willing to move forward. And we can, we can buy this property, take down this attraction. that's here now and build a coaster. And that's what we did. So we're right on the parkway as you're leaving.

If you're headed towards Gatlinburg, as you're leaving Pigeon Forge, we're the last attraction on the right on the parkway. What are you doing in the winter? Yeah, so they ride. It's more of a challenge, man. You have it cold plunged. It's cold.

Yeah. But operational 24 hours or 365 days a year. Yes. Yes. We're open 365 days a year. And it's all lit up neat and cool at night. If it's, yeah, the night, so that's really cool. So there's two, like, my favorite thing, being a NASCAR driver, obviously I get my speed fix with everything we do, right?

So for me, the coaster itself is more about the view and just enjoying a good time with whoever you're over there with, right? So it's not about the speed. The view we have is incredible. You have a 360-degree view. It's, you see mountains, you see the parkway. And you have to do it during a day and at night because the view during the day is so much different than the view. night, right? And it's just a lot of fun to visit it and go over there and ride it at night, see the lights, and then ride it during the day and see the mountains, right? So it's, it's been

a lot of fun to be a part of that. And, you know, that was the first thing we did when we sold the charter. That's the first thing we jumped into. Really? Yeah. So will you build more of those? So Teddy and I and other partners, we've talked about doing a couple of different towns. and I think that it's in the future. I don't have nothing set in stone now, but I just love that the thing is, like it's so hard to do anything that's affordable. Like the economy's taken off and inflation and everything,

and it's like you can- It's expensive to build things. Yeah, and it's expensive to go enjoy them, right? And it's like we've got, you know, right now, you come over there, four people ride for $100 and get extra rides for less money. it's like it for for what it is and enjoyment you get out of it in the pictures and and the experience it's a lot for $25 a person right and it's like you know you can't go to a movie theater and spend less than $25 a person anymore like it's if you get a drink snack

and a ticket and I just I really love that business model and I I definitely let me tell you this I'm going to own another one there's no doubt it's just a matter of when what timing like when it's right but will you ever own another charter I you know I would own part of one. Okay. Like I don't want to buy it's part better than a full because because the Cups series unfortunately is a billionaire sport now. It is. Not a millionaires. Right. And I'm not a billionaire. Yeah. We we, uh, we just simply can't afford it. Right. Like it's, it's, um, to, to run every week and own a charter and do it correctly, I feel like for my personal where I'm at in life and the things I've done, I don't want to be there unless I can try to compete. And then truthfully, that's only top 20, right? Like,

once you're in a top 20 in cup, I believe the next week you could win. Right? Like it's that it's that close now, right? So, you know, I, I just know that Jessica and I aren't wealthy enough to, to be competitive. And I, but you'll run an open car part time. Yes. And that makes me, that makes more financial sense. It does. It's, it's because, so number one, I, you know, when you get fortunate enough to have something go right like we did and you're in a position to say, what do I want to do with, you know, however many years I got left. Like you just don't know.

Lice a gift, right? So I want to race, man. And I love NASCAR. I just love, I love the people. I love the sport. I love the things that go back and forth and everything we try to figure out.

And it's just a fun way of life for me. Like that's where I'm at. So I want to be in it, whatever I can afford to do. And to me, the cup car at the speedways and thankfully Atlanta is the way it is. I know I love the old Atlanta too. But right now I kind of need it this way for me.

I got a couple extra races to go to. So it's like those races, we can go and we can stay on the lead lap. And you just never know. And it's a lot of fun to do that. So, you know, that's why we keep after that. And I, you know, the infrastructure is there to, you know, we just bought the new building over here close to you guys. We actually bought the building next to it. I don't think anybody even knows that.

It's like we've got enough square footage now that, you know, we could absolutely be a part of a charter. one single cup team again. It's just I don't want to do it unless it's the right partner. I know what it takes and I don't want to go back and do it the way I did it. Or even struggling the way we do now to run as an open team, we qualify third from last and have to accept that. Right. Like it's not going to get better.

Like we as an open team, we are going to qualify around that area every time. But our racing can get better and it is shown over time we're getting better. And the biggest thing is, I have a passion for working with other drivers and still trying to be a driver. I do truly enjoy that and getting to work with Catherine last year. And the original plan, like you said, after we did the Pitchard Rasing coaster, we're like, okay, what do we do for racing to stay a part of that and not eat in the capital that we have? And it's like, okay, let's work on the driver development stuff.

Let's work on people that have partners that want to work with us and find a hole. And it's like, we talked about trucks and we talked about Xfinity again. And I was like, we already have millions in cup. We didn't sell any of the cup stuff. We sold the charter. So we didn't, we have everything. We have, we, we've got enough equipment right now to run two Xfinity teams, a truck team, and a cup team. Like, we, we still have all that.

So I, you know, I told Jessica, I was like, I just feel like me, the driver understands the delta right now between an Xfinity car and a cup car. And even the truck series, the Xfinity series and the cup series, right? Like it's just, you know, the cup series is just over here. Like in, and used to, you get out of an Xfinity car and you kind of feel comfortable in a cup car. Like I used to, I used to do those weekends, run Xfinity, then run Cup, you know, do it. And I did trucks too. I did all three, a lot of weekends.

But it's, you know, it would always make you better and always make you just, it just was always an advantage for a long time with the cup car, now with the next gen car, I get out the Xfinity car and I was like, man, it takes me 20 laps to figure out how to fill the steering again in the next gen car. Like it just so radically different. And I felt like, you know, the problem with the Cups series is as successful as it got so quick and all the attention and everything. There's no, like, feeder ride in the Cups series anymore. In my opinion, it's like everybody, every, every, you know, car out there is like a contending car.

And it's a, you know, it's a very highly sought after ride. And there's really no seats. Like, there's just, it just filled up. Like, used to you had, you know, Alex Bowman ran. what, 150, 200 races before he got his shot. And it's like he was in cars that were in the Cup Series. There's no place for him now if you go back 10 years and start over. Like it just, that's not there.

So I feel like, you know, because the open spots are there, we're in a position with infrastructure and the friends I have and a networking I have up here. The experience I have as a cup owner, I feel like we're in a great position to help a successful Xfinity driver or Riley's driver or a Craftsman Truck Series driver get some seat time in a next-gen car and be presentable. No, we're not going to run better than 30th.

Like that honestly, like on speed, like, yes, we've had some great finishes. Okay, we've had some top 20s. Catherine did a phenomenal job later in the year and she got comfortable with the car. But the truth is, all those races, we were 28th to 30th on speed, even though we got a phenomenal 22nd place finish or I think even top 20 once or twice. So it's like, I want to be realistic and say that, you know, we're at. best we're going to be a 30 at the 28th place open team when we're competing against these charter guys but i feel like it's a better move for someone that's going to take over a top tier cup team that you know knows they're going to win on sunday or they're on a path to win on sunday

i feel like if you get in our car and you go get your feet wet and feel what it's like to to have to be competitive in this series and because it's an eye opener for everybody we see that we see that with every, you know, O'Reilly's champion that jumps over in Cup and, and they're literally 30th on the board, 33rd on the board, laps down. Like, I mean, it's just, it's, it's that much of a gap. So I feel like we're in a position. If you jump in our car and go run 30th and get used to it without the pressure of knowing that, you know, you're driving for top tier team and while am I going to, am I going to mess in my name?

If I get in this car and I don't run good. Right. Our car doesn't present that pressure. So it lets you learn the nuances of the Cup series without, having that pressure on you and just really, you know, work on your craft before you get in that winning car. Yeah, I'm sure. And I think, you know, we're just in a unique spot to be able to do that.

And that was the plan after we sold was to prove that we could do that. We did that last year with Catherine. And Catherine, she's coming in. She hadn't been on an oval. You know, it's like we're not talking about somebody that's winning in O'Reilly's or trucks. We're talking about somebody that's, you know, got an awesome career and done incredible stuff. But she has no experience over here.

Like, very, very limited. And, you know, we, Phoenix, there was a, there was a, you know, unmistakable hiccup that happened during the race. And I, you know, I called Justin and talked to him and just, you know, told him that we didn't want to have those things happen and felt bad about it. And, you know, he was really cool. But the point is get past that. One, one lapse in judgment on, you know, on her part, she owned it. She didn't run. She said, hey, I know I messed up.

And she took care of it. And she talked to the drivers. And then the next race, she killed. it. It's like she goes out there and does awesome and it's like that's, you know, that's what we're here for. And, and, you know, if she has partners that wants to work with us, we're, we're thrilled to work with her because she did a phenomenal job coming back from, from Phoenix. I would agree. Man, the story is amazing. I've, I've enjoyed, you know, getting to know you over the past couple of years and just watching you and how you've operated, but always

wanted to sit down and talk to you about the Florida years and all the success that you had. And I just don't think a lot of people really appreciate your, your, the duty, the dues you paid, right? And I think a lot of people do appreciate your savvy business ethic and how you've been able to, you know, make a living at the top three levels of NASCAR. as a driver and an owner. But I think it would be fun for people to hear the full story. And the fact that you're creative, you know, to go outside of the box, to create, you know, financial opportunities for yourself to continue to do what you do, man. It's impressive.

I just don't feel like a lot of people have that work ethic. They have the want to be there. But, you know, the boots on the ground part is tough for a lot of folks. Well, I really appreciate you. saying that. It means an awful lot coming from you. And the work ethic side is 100% because of my parents. Like, they instilled it in me when I was a kid and I just don't quit. Like I'm, and I'm willing to do anything. I'll tell you. You just go for it. There was one moment that I wish would have came to fruition. We were at Atlanta. You'll remember this. Michael Annette's driving our car.

Michael had broken his leg. Michael wasn't feeling good all weekend. Literally, like literally 30 minutes, not even 30 minutes before the race is starting, Michael has decided that he can't drive the car. He doesn't feel good. And I got a call from my sister in LW and I'm standing in the booth with my tie on to call the race.

I remember this. And they're like, can you drive it? They're freaking out. Like, who can drive it? Can you drive it? I'm like, I'm in the booth. Like, I can't leave the booth. What am I going to tell my bosses?

You know, they're going to think anytime a damn car, you know, door opens up, I'm just going to jump out of my booth and go drive a race car. Like I have to, I had to think in the moment like, yeah, I can't do this. Someone else has to do this. I'm, I've signed up for this. And because I didn't want to lose my job as a broadcaster. And we were like, who can do it? And I pitched your name and they went looking for you.

Couldn't find you. Yeah. So actually, you know, what's funny enough. Or did we find you? You did. And you couldn't fit? I think that was the end of it. I was willing, so I was willing to drive the car without a liner.

Like I would have drove that car that day sitting on the carbon. Yeah. 100%. If that was, so you see the movie, you see the movie. I would have done it though. I know. I know you would have.

And I would have, David Green is the one that takes care of all of us. I would have choked him if I had to get in that car. Yeah. Like I love him to death. But it's like he would have done. not wanted me to do it because he wouldn't want me to get hurt, but I would have signed any waiver, anything with NASCAR to not get sued whatever I could have done to get in that car.

I would have said yes. So it's funny because they come and got me. I remember sending my bus driver to go get the sued and get all my stuff and I was getting changed. And then I walked out there and Austin was starting to get fitted for it. And when I walked up, Pemberton told me that they were just worried about, you know, me not being able to ride, not having a liner. Yeah.

Because you're going to have to take the line around. Yeah, so I could have drove it without the liner. And I did. So it's crazy enough, John West got hurt in 2014 at Pocono in Arcacar for Venturini. They airlifted him out. And, you know, he's going to the hospital. And I'm a sleep in the lounge and Billy runs in there. And he's like, hey, well, you start and park John West's car.

And I'm like, dude, do you know the difference in size between the two of us? And he's like, oh, don't worry about it. We'll take the liner. And I was like, well, if he's got a liner, just pull it out and I'll drive it. So I drove that car at Pocono. I wouldn't have wanted you to race without a liner. But I'm telling you, no disrespect. No disrespect to Austin Dillon.

He did us a solid, but I badly wanted to see you getting that car. And what a great freaking chance to put you in a decent race car. Yes. And on the old Atlanta. Yeah, man, I can tell you right now, first lap I'd have been, I'm against the wall, through one and two wide open, get as many spots as I could have. Just because you do that stuff back then. And I knew would that car just get me to the green.

Like, that's where it would have been game on. I'd love to see that that day. I'm a big fan of yours. I appreciate your personality and the hard work you've done and the person you are and to what you said. Be yourself. You definitely are who you are. And you wear that on your, you know, you wear that proudly. And you've kind of earned everyone's respect by going that route, right?

There's a lot of dudes out there that I've raced with. And sometimes you're just not really sure if the person. they are pretending to be is who they really are. But there's no, there's no guessing with you. No question. Yeah. I appreciate you giving us some time today. I think a lot of people are going to love this show, getting to know you better. You got a lot of people out there pulling for you, man. And can't wait to see what you do next, B.J. Absolutely. Thank you to everyone for all the support. It means the world to us. And I haven't got a trophy on track, but the amount of respect that I've got throughout the garage means more than any win ever could. So just thank you for that and

everything you've said. And invite me in here. It's been, it's been, it's been a trophy on track. It's a blast. I appreciate it. BJ McLeod on the Dale Jr. Download. So BJ McLeod, everybody knows what he's been doing over the last, you know,

decade. And he has earned a lot of respect as a guy who has raced within his budget and, you know, made his way all the way into the Cup series, you know,

doing, with this unique process. And it's just pretty impressive. And I'm telling you, I mean, that dude was beating the ground, going into these side doors of all these race teams to get a spindle or a set of brake rotors or a body panel, whatever, to like save a couple hundred bucks here and there, you know, tallying all that up week after week, day after day after day, just to get his cars up and down the road

and to the racetrack and knowing that they're racing to have that kind of surprise top 15 or top 20 finish. He was racing a whole different game. A whole different, you know, he wasn't racing against Junior Motorsports or Gibbs or he was racing a whole other scenario

in circumstances. It's really impressive. I always admired the underdog. or the independent for what they have to deal with. And he doesn't even look at himself as a underdog. He has a whole different set of rules, and he races at a different standard and his achievements, and a good day for him has a different set of goals than most.

And he adheres to those. you know, he isn't having grand illusions of of, you know, entering a cup race and finishing into top three. And so, I really admire it. And,

but at the same time, he's very successful in Florida in the super late models, and I don't know that many people really know what that means or what that was, right? Yeah, he won a couple races at his local track. I had a little bit more than that, quite a bit more than that. And so the dude can drive a race car and we just don't really get to see how good he might be because he's not in quality equipment at the truck, Xfinity, or a couple level.

But, man, it's just fun talking to him. and he's he looks at the world really where everything on the table is everything's on the table everything's a possibility you know he'll go outside of his

racing mind and create opportunities through unique businesses or or or and create capital and create you know fund racing and just you know I don't know man a lot of guys myself included, you know, you kind of,

you look at your racing career and you're like, I just got to climb the ladder. How do I climb the ladder? I just drive cars. I just go drive a car and drive a car well. A lot of people don't have to go outside themselves or outside their racing world to create opportunity. And, yeah, he does anything and everything, whatever it takes.

Just an interesting guy. appreciate him give us some time today I was already a fan of B.J. McLeod but man it ain't no bull's a bull's man he's not a front he is just authentically him you got to appreciate that

and I'm glad we got him on the show today thanks for everybody for joining us here in the Arby studio don't forget about Arby's new meat and three box. We talk about it every week, but you get more meal for your money at Arby's, especially in this meat and three box.

Arby's, we have the meets and we have the great shows here at the Dale Jr. Download, and we'll see you again tomorrow. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.