The Dale Jr. Download - Bonus: Next Level w/ Ken Squier - Chapter 2: Brave Enough To Die

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

Nestled in the hills of Barre, Vermont lies the quarter-mile, high-banked, asphalt speed bowl known only to fans as Thunder Road. 8,000 people gather every Thursday night to witness the best racing the state of Vermont has to offer. The roots of this iconic race track can be traced back to the one and only, Ken Squier.In the third installment of Next Level with Ken Squier, host Andrew Kurland and Squier discuss the origins of Thunder Road, which first took shape when Squier was only in his mid-twenties. Squier discusses the post-war era and shares stories of soldiers returning home, who weren’t going to “fool around or fuss with anything that didn’t have teeth in it.”These are the stories of the heroes and daredevils that made up the early days of short-track racing in Vermont and across the country. To race, you have to be daring, bold, and brave enough to die.  Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. What's up, download fans? This is Alex Tim's. Happy Friday, and we've got another Friday treat for you. Today, chapter two of Andrew Curlin's next-level conversation with Ken Squire. Premiers on the Dale June Download feed. Remember, if you want to listen to these as soon as they come out, you got to go over to the next level, wherever you get your podcast from.

Whatever platform you prefer, it's on there. click subscribe it might say follow but that's the same thing turn on the notifications and just enjoy as soon as they're released trust me you're not going to want to miss these as soon as they come out these conversations are amazing ken squire he's a treasure but you already do that because he's ken squire come on without further ado here is chapter two with ken squire brave enough to die this is a production of dirty mo media And now from high above the scar finish line in Ontario, here is Ken Squire. Into turn three, he fireballs his way into the lead, goes out in front by one, two, three car lengths. Sticks it right in there out of turn number four. He may have shot his arrow a little too early here.

Racing is full of daredevles. Part of it was that brave enough to die, I think. Turnhart retiring. The engine caves in on car. Did you ever race yourself? I loved it. Yeah. But I was too expensive for me. I hate to admit it. But everybody races something.

That's right. Yeah. But there they were right there, on the track, right in front of you, going like hell. Nestled in the hills of Barry, Vermont, lies a quarter mile high-banked racetrack, known as Thunder Road, where 8,000 people. gather on Thursday nights to witness the best racing the state of Vermont has to offer. The roots of this iconic racetrack can be traced back to the one and only Ken Squire where we go next level with him. Hello everybody.

My name is Andrew Curl and welcome to chapter two of next level and it is all about that iconic racetrack known as Thunder Road. How did it get his name? How old was Ken when he? first put this idea into motion. We're going to learn all about that and more. And what's great about this episode is we're going to be bringing in the legendary voice of Dave Moody, who got his start calling races at Thunder Road under the wing of Ken Squire

to share some stories about his experience at that iconic racetrack that so many people in Vermont and so many legendary voices that we hear across the NASCAR Airwaves got their start at. So that is what we are diving into today. The first episode was all about roots. How did Ken fall in love with racing? We learned all about the legendary Chris Economacki and the influence he played on Ken. And now we're going to get into some of the racing.

We actually had the chance to visit Thunder Road before talking to Ken about this. Ashley Squire, his daughter, was able to get us in. We shot some video. We were able to walk on the track, which was really cool. Check out the press. box that Ken called all those iconic races from. And it is such a cool venue that I want to go back. We were not there when there was any racing going on, but I want to go back for the milk bowl,

which is the big race that apparently everyone has to go to. So it's a destination spot for short track fans. And really NASCAR fans are Ken Squire fans to get out to that location. Like I said in the beginning, it's nestled in the hills. We are high. up enough, especially in the grandstands, and this was during the fall time where you could see just out in the horizon, all the different trees changing colors. It was beautiful. I'll be sure to share some photos that we took from that day on social media. But let's get into this conversation because it's a great one and I was fascinated to hear some of the stories Kent had to say about Thunder Road. Let's jump into it. Chapter 2 of Next Level with Ken Squire.

There's only dirt tracks in the area. You have the need to make a paved racetrack, and that's where Thunder Road comes from. And you said it was still here today. How old are you at this time when you're building Thunder Road? I was in high school. Still in high school. Was that a big task to put this paved racetrack together? Well, you bet it was.

But I soldiered on, and we got it done. and another track up in St. John'sbury, Vermont. Thunder Road is in the granite capital of the world, Barry, Vermont. Now, nobody knows that, but you do now. Because they have a great granite seam that went for 30 or 40 miles. So most of the stones that were cut came from Vermont. Funny thing. Where did you get the name Thunder Road from?

Stole it. From who? The movie. Okay. Robert Mitchum. Yeah. Who wrote it, produced it, starred in it. Right?

Have you ever seen it? I have not, but I've heard of it. You've got to go look at it. Okay. Because it's a great, and it's about the southeast. But it plays to what the stock car part of it was. And the name just seemed to me to be. be synonymous with what we were doing.

For our people in Vermont, they had a Thunder Road. It was, and still is, very nice racetrack. What kind of things would you do to promote Thunder Road and promote the racing around here? We're in every week on Thursday night because the workers got paid on Thursday. The people that were down there bringing up the stone. that would be carved into suitable monuments to people. And they loved it. And they would come and bring their families

and sit on the banks and watch these cars. And they developed their own heroes. And Barry Vermont had its own group of race drivers that were, as far as Barry Vermont was concerned, or as good as anything at Indianapolis. That was fun. So before people got a chance to spend their fresh paycheck on a grocery store and anything like that, they would go to

Thursday Night Racing at Thunder Road? Certainly. Well, you could go to Thunder Road on Thursday night. You could do your grocery shopping on Friday night, do what you would do on Saturday night, and be all set for Sunday. Sounds like a good weekend. Yeah, it was a perfect weekend. And sometimes we had to have special events on Sunday.

That was the history of Thunder Road. I wanted to take a quick second before we get back to our conversation with Ken because I don't think he gives himself enough credit on this Thursday night racing concept, getting the paycheck of those workers before they had the chance to go to the grocery store. So Dave Moody, he told me his perspective of the story and I really think he gives Ken the credit he deserves in terms of how genius this marketing concept was. Take a listen. The purpose behind that was Thunder Road is located in Barry, Vermont, the granite capital of the world.

The main industry back in the 60s, and still a very big part of the local economy today, is the granite quarries and the monument industry, basically gravestones and the like. All of the quarries and all of the granite sheds, they call them granite sheds up there where the monuments are made. they all paid their employees on Thursday. And when Ken first built the racetrack, he said, we're going to race on Thursday night so that we get a shot at their money before the grocery store does.

Smart, right? I mean, smart guy. And to this day, they race on Thursday night. And nobody in Central Vermont thinks anything of it. It's Thursday night is race night, and it always has been. It's pretty genius, don't you think? let's get back to the conversation with Ken.

Well, we were at Thunder Road yesterday and walking around the facility, I still can't believe you built that at 25 years old. How much of a task was it? I never thought of it that way. Really? But it was a chore because it hadn't been done around here. Yeah. And that's what we wanted was something.

something that was different. And we got lucky in the fact that we thought so much about Barry Vermont, Granite Capital of the World, and that has its own pride and everything. We got to build this better than better. It came out pretty good. It did. It did. It's a beautiful facility, fantastic backdrop. How did you find a location that was right for a racetrack like that? We worked on that. Yeah? Yeah, those hills just fit in perfectly. And we built the grandstand, the original wooden grandstand was deceased and got into concrete, but all of that was of a plan. And you could go there to see the sunset or you could go there to see a race.

Yeah, or both. Possibly. Yeah. Sometimes you get both. Sometimes you get a lot of rain. Yeah, you got to keep the fans happy, keep the rain out of there. Um, your, your daughter, actually was telling me about some of the events that go on at the track. I think the last race coming up shortly and they got porta potty racing. What is that? Is that something you came up with? I hate to admit it. But everybody races something.

That's right. Yeah. And we had a sponsor. And that goes on every year. The different race divisions, they create their porta potty for the year. and it shows up at the track and there's an unveiling and there's the golden plunger

for that award and then for the contribution of the best race and they line them up side by side yeah history making quite the event yeah that's the next level stuff that we're talking about it's above above everything around us no one has ever seen anything like that

No, there's, you know, Daytona 500 history, there's NASCAR championships, but I think the Port of Potty Racing might take the top of the... And Thunder Road produced good races. Yeah. But it had a feel to it that was kind of local and people loved it. How many years have we been there? Not I, because I've sold it. I've got old and cranky. Started racing there in 1960.

Yeah. Wow. Just a long time. Yeah. So you're 25. when Thunder Road opened, you said it took a long time to get it built. What was it like finding investors to put their money in Thunder Road? There's always people that are interested.

Yeah. Interest and then putting money down is a serious situation. Yeah. But we had some good that understood what we were up to. And Barry, Vermont, we couldn't have found a better place to start that race strike. Because they, that's an Italian town. in the middle of Vermont because those really good workers on stone all came from Italy. So we had a bunch of drivers that related to them and they were good. And with enough time and

enough experience, they got so they could handle cars pretty well. And we would have the dickens of a time. I spoke with Dave Moody, who learned a lot from you and grew up around this area and around Thunder Road. I actually have a clip of him describing the wall at Thunder Road. Here, I'll give it to you to play. This is great. The outside wall starts in turn four. Well, now it goes all the way around the track, but back in the day, it started in turn four and ran all the way to turn one. and rather than being, you know, perpendicular to the racetrack,

it actually tipped back a little bit. So they'd come off turn four. And if you got a little offline, like six inches offline, you'd go up on the wall and you'd either go all the way over or you'd come back down again and sometimes keep right on going without ever losing a spot. There were, there were seasons where we averaged about one and a half rollovers per night. Do you remember that? Was that a problem?

Well, I think that's an exaggeration for him, but he was always that way. Yeah, yeah. Well, he learned well then about the exaggeration part of it. And he lived right near the track. And he loved it and still does. Yeah, it represents so much of what we were and what we have become. Because racing was a rural activity. All those indie stars that were so great, there's always some celebrity.

but they were basically people that work the farms, work the loan, and they would get enough money together and build cars. Guess where it came next? Where to go? Southeast. And same thing. And they came back from World War II, and they weren't going to sit around and play tennis or baseball.

They wanted something with some teeth in it, and stock car racing was it. And that's how they built so many of the great tracks in the southeast woman gray. Mm-hmm. Everywhere you look down there. It's great to see the roots of racing still around today. You know, Thunder Road is still around. You mentioned people came back from the war and didn't want baseball or other sports.

And there was some gravitation to racing. Was that the case before the war is? well or was it something that happened after people came back? Well, I can't tell you because I was too young to really understand, but I think you're on to something there, that they realized there was something more than catching the ball and throwing it somewhere. Part of it was that brave enough to die thing, which fit absolutely in with all those kids coming home from the Pacific and from Europe. and they weren't going to fool around or fuss with anything that didn't have some teeth in it.

And racing was it, and they could build their own cars and do it inexpensively. And you still see it today, all over the country, those little tracks, quarter mile, third mile, half mile. Kind of going fast on a half mile. Where those people got their talent, went to college, if you will, on the dirt, And some of them progressed and progressed and came up to being what Lee Pettie wasn't, 57, 58. Racing is full of daredevils, like you said, brave enough to die. I mean, it seems like it would be somewhat easy to make heroes out of drivers who are willing to put their life on the line. What was it like branding and making some of the heroes, especially locally here at Thunder Road?

Well, that was our job. Yeah. And working on stories about these people, which could be your neighbor. Mm-hmm. And because of their place on the picking order in the community, weren't recognized for too much. But boy, could they drive a car. And you put them together and start 20 of them.

And you've got a show. I want to step back in here before we go back to our conversation with Ken and go back to Dave Moody. And I want to talk about that wall that Ken and I were talking about that was on an angle. It wasn't always a concrete wall. And Dave Moody provides a history of what they used before that. Take a listen. The wall was actually railroad tides sunk into the ground. What they learned very quickly about that was that when you hit railroad tides, you stop really quickly and it hurts a lot.

So fairly, fairly quickly, I think season two, the wall became concedure. And, you know, back then, there were no engineers, you know, there was no laser sighting or anything like that. You just kind of stood back and held your thumb up and said, yeah, that looks about right. Start pouring the concrete. And that's what they did. Let's jump back to the conversation with Ken. Did you ever race yourself? Yeah, badly.

Didn't go well? I loved it. Yeah? But I was too expensive for me. No, it's such a good game and such good people. And most of my friends today, the serious friends that go deeply into my background, came out of racing in Vermont. They're dying off, as we all do.

But they created a whole new atmosphere that people hadn't thought about because it didn't exist. And they'd been the bridges off those cars. And when they raced, they raced as if it was really serious. And they didn't have anything hits to it that wasn't serious. And kids loved it. Well, because kids love race cars. What did your parents think of you racing? They were ambiguous.

And I knew shortly that I had something better that I could do, which is talk. I could blab and make these guys that ran at our racetrack, Hard Luck Hennepard, the Ingersen brothers, those kind of people, really important. Ingerson brothers were lumberjacks over in New Hampshire. They were the regular working people that had found something they could do, and they could add it into the other things that were being done by others and done for them. As I look back, that was a high point in their lives because they could do it.

And they got cagey enough, smart enough, build cars that were durable to stand the gaff and win races. Same thing happened in the southeast, certainly happened out west. That's sort of the history of stock car racing. I think it goes back to about the time that Daytona got built. And heretofore, that was something that other people did. But when they built Daytona, Bill France and company, there was an opportunity to have this two-and-a-half-mile track where they could really go, take the risk if they dared.

and make it meaningful, changed everything. And we're seeing it today. We're into a new generation of it. And they are so different today than even 20 years ago. These are kids that have come out now and have the ability to learn how to drive by hook or by using things that we know nothing about. And they're putting on tremendous raises.

That couldn't have happened back then. So it's all part of the growth and the changing of the way. But it makes it more important ever to me that they're there and they're doing it. It's amazing to see how technical racing is today. It comes down to hundreds of an inch in terms of shaping a body and everything. We've learned so much about racing. Well, we learned how to cheat, too. Yeah. What do you think about that? Is cheating cheating or is it?

No, no, no. I mean, they have to catch them. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the same thing as baseball or football or tennis or anything you want to say. But it's got some vitality to it that the others in my mind don't have. And demand so much that nobody knows about. These families that build cars that would run at the nation's site of excitement, Thunder Road. That's a great challenge, great challenge. Putting that car together, making it stay together, and make it consistently victorious. That's the best story of America there is. Some of that gets lost, but not all. And then the higher level of that is what we see at Daytona and what NASCAR continues to rep.

present, I think that's terrific. We love stories of creativity, as we call it, not cheating. Were there any good ones of people pushing the boundaries at Thunder Road or some of these local tracks that you remember? Nearly every way. What are some examples? Somebody would, well, they would come up with different ideas about how to get around the track.

That's theirs, not mine. we'll leave that subject along. Oh gosh, we were so close, so close to getting an innovation story out of Ken. But you know what? Maybe the mystery of what these drivers did at Thunder Road is almost better. Let our imaginations try and picture what they could have done in terms of innovation, creativity, as we like to call it. But Ken was so excited to share these stories.

We had to take a couple of breaks, change SD cards, adjust lighting and microphones. And while we were sitting, waiting to hit record again, Ken kept the tape rolling. He kept the stories going. And I almost had to be like, wait, Ken, hold on. Let's wait until we get the microphones back up and running the camera going to capture all this.

And we got a lot of the great stuff. Looking forward to the next couple of chapters of next level with Ken Squire. It's all about NASCAR, Big Bill, his visions, Daytona, the petties. Oh yeah, that's all coming up next. Stay tuned because we're just getting started with Next Level with Ken Squire. I'm Andrew Curlin. Thanks for listening. Check out Dirty Mo Media.

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