The Dale Jr. Download - Bonus: Next Level w/ Ken Squier - Chapter 3: Mountain of a Man

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

Bill France Sr. set out penniless with a dream to start a sport where the automobile was the star. His dream allowed names like Petty and Earnhardt to take center stage on the high banks of new, more daring tracks like the monster of Daytona International Speedway. How do you sell a dream this grand? You need people to buy into your vision as much or more than you. This is where Ken Squier comes into play. In Chapter Three of Next Level with Andrew Kurland, the two talk about Bill France Sr.'s early visions for modern-day NASCAR. They discuss the rise of the Petty name and what the earliest motorsports broadcasts looked like. It takes brave people with bold dreams to make big things happen, and Squier's stories tell just that.  Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirtymoe Media. What's up, Dale Jr. Download fans, this is Alex Timms. We have another off-season Friday bonus drop here on the Dale Jr. Download feed, as today is Chapter 3 of Andrew Curlin's next-level conversation with Ken Squire, Mountain of a Man. If you want to listen to these as soon as they come out, go to next level wherever you listen to podcasts, click subscribe, and make sure the podcast notifications are on so you know. the minute a new episode of Next Level drops. So now, enjoy chapter three of Next Level's conversation with Ken Squire, Mountain of a Man.

This is a production of Dirty Mo Media. It is a two-car jouse. And now moves in to appropriate the lead. Into turn three, he fireballs his way into the lead. Goes out in front by one, two, three car lengths here. It is a game of improvisation being played in very best right now. There you see the Marcus car coming in on the hook. Marcus hopes have evaporated today.

And every one of them had a champion and a villain. They were there. They were theirs. And that may indeed impair his health for this great. And she looked down at this mountain of a guy and said, well, are we still having fun? having fun. Bill Fran Sr. set out penniless, with a dream to start a sport where the automobile was the

star. His dream allowed names like Petty and Earnhard to take center stage on the high banks of new, more daring tracks, like the monster of a two-and-a-half-mile-supers-speedway known only as Daytona. How do you sell Dream this grand? You need people to buy into your vision as much, if not more than you. And that's where Ken Squire comes into play. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another chapter of this next level conversation with Ken Squire. My name's Andrew Curlin.

We've got a good one today. We're talking about Big Bill, his big dream, building Daytona, the first Daytona 500, and so much more. We're getting into the think of it now. The creation of NASCAR is underway, and that is what we talk about in this. episode in particular. As I mentioned that in the beginning, it takes people to buy into your dream in order for the dream to come true, especially as big of a dream as Bill France had. Ken Squire saw that dream and he ran with it and he did what he could to make it as big of a dream as Bill France had set out for it to be. We're going to hear from David Hobbs and I had a fantastic

conversation with him. We talked for about 30 minutes and most of the conversation was about that 1979 Daytona 500. And for those who don't know, Ken and David Hobbs worked together in the booth for a number of years. And we're going to hear more great stories from him in a later episode. But we're going to start throwing in some of his anecdotes because David Hobbs was with Ken in those early days. Before we got those flag-to-flag races, how did they broadcast NASCAR? It's a crazy answer. I can't wait for you to hear what he has to say.

We're going to talk about the Petty's young Richard Petty. What was he like? When we sat down with the Dirty Mo team before heading out to Vermont, we went over a list of topics of conversation that we wanted to bring up with Ken, stories that we wanted to hear from him himself. And Big Bill's Dream was at the top of my list. And, you know, we teased it in some of the trailers. You know, you hear me asking the question,

what were his visions for the sport? This is the episode that you get to finally. hear Ken's answer and hear the stories from himself. So enough of hearing me talk about the interview. Let's go to chapter three of next level with Ken Squire. You mentioned Daytona coming about in a two and a half mile track in Daytona Beach, Florida. Was that ever heard of or anything like that before? Well, there were some big tracks. Yeah. Question about it. But that for a lot of time represented the money class that had the money to build sports cars and that kind of thing. But when you got down to the meat and potatoes that were grown off that gland,

that was where Bill France just had this incredible sense of what America was really about. And he presented to them what they really were. And it was certainly not the intellectual hop of the order, but it was the people of this country all over, all those short tracks. And every one of them had a champion and a villain. And they were all home-cooked. They were there. They were theirs. And you could play Little League baseball.

You could play any sport. But here was something that really represented what America was because of the automobile. Right, yeah. And that 1958 race, and Bill France was such a genius and gets not any near the credit he deserves. He knew that. He came from up around Washington, D.C., was headed to Florida, stopped off in Daytona Beach, ended up with a filling station down there. And he built this entire thing penniless when he started.

It's just the most incredible story. And it's all encapsulated in that first Daytona 500. Well, you got down to the end of it. And there was Johnny Beauchamp from the Midwest. He was a real deal. They announced that he was the winner. Wait a minute. There are some, the conjecture in that someone else has won this race.

So ladies and gentlemen, we're going to hold and not announce the winner until we're certain. Oh, my gosh. And they got pictures from every direction, and Lee Petty won it. And he did win it. But there were three cars side by side, flat out coming to the line. One, nobody thought any of them would last that long, that there was a very good chance at the Daytona 500, that it would be the Daytona race minus X amount of cars. Yeah.

And they drove them so well. And they were aware that they were really on call here to be good. Nobody would have believed that that race would finish that way. And so Bill Holder held up everything. And they found that photo because they didn't have a, well, why would you need a Photo finish? Yeah, a photo finish. And there it was.

And that was the best we had. And Lee got credit, Bochamp got second, another car was up on the outside two lapsed out. That we could register with. And they were late model cars now, new cars. Oh, all of that played into this sport, evolving into what we have today. It's all found in that picture. Yeah, I find it unbelievable that after 500 miles comes down to a matter of feet, inches.

And it still does. It still does. It still does. Yeah. And the thing is now, these kids today are so good. They're so well trained. They have the desire to go out and learn how to make this stuff work. And it works.

It does. And the sport worked in general. You mentioned Bill France, Senior, penniless with a dream to start NASCAR. What do you remember in conversations with him about his early visions for what he wanted the sport to be? You see them. Yeah. I mean, he created what he thought he saw. And he captured the imagination about public.

Many people don't give him any near the value. that he is, was, still is, because those cars running together that well, that long, over an established distance, history. And this guy, this great big guy who had a good fence about people and hired people that were so good, the minute he found somebody he liked and thought could add and contribute to bringing this level of racing up. They were on the team. He was quite a man. How did you first get connected with him? There was a guy named Dob Saul, S-A-L-L. He was a sprint car driver, and he ran in the 30s, and he was pretty good. And he had the gift of Gab. France heard about him, and he made him the Northeast representative for NASCAR. And God knows that the sport had grown in so many directions. Every part of the country needed another fellow.

And if you check on it, you'll find them from California to New England. And I got recommended by Bob Saul. And I went down for two days, 57 in there. And here I am to know and proud of it. And the people that were at Daytona fighting and scratching and trying to make it go and make it work for themselves are the same people as today. They really work at it, they really care about it, and they care so much.

Nobody gets that. I mean, now because there's so much factory, and that's all right, but that desperate feeling that they had when we evolved from where we were, it's a testimony to Bill France. He not only understood it, but he took it,

and he made America Yeah. Take heed. And that's kind of what I'm interested in because he sold you on his dream, but you had to sell the dream to people on the more national level at CBS. And it took a while to get it on television and get it to become where it is today. How difficult was that battle of trying to sell NASCAR to other people who didn't quite understand it quite like you or Bill France did? I don't know that I could really explain that, but it was there. It was in the air. And because it evolved with the motor car and so much of our society is based upon what kind of a car you have. and the character of the people that were involved.

And France worked so hard to put that stuff together. Made it work. And when he got it all combined, then he went out and built another track in Tel-Dadega. And NASCAR grew because it was like a baseball semi-professional thing. But these guys meant it. I mean, they were so intent, and they cared so much. They carried the weight for Bill.

What did broadcasting NASCAR look like before the first flag-to-flag race, or in the 70s, the years of building it up to that 1979, 500? Go back and look at the end of the Depression, and those guys running those cars on little tracks indoors, Chicago, all over the country. And that sense of trying to be successful at something that was risky, real risky. And being able to do it, that was the United States of America. No question about it.

Never did they talk about that with France, but he understood it. and he worked so hard for so long. Made a lot of mistakes, but we all do. I want to cut in real quick before we get back to Ken because the next question I ask is referencing that conversation I had with David Hobbs regarding how did they broadcast races before the first live flag-to-flag event?

Take a listen. And Kevin and I used to do a lot of NASCAR races, but we do them at night. because we use studios to do voiceover. These were edited races, which are terribly difficult to call because, you know, the in and out is predestined.

You can't change it. You can't fudge it. So you've got to be exactly spot on. Yeah. So we're always running over or you have to do it again. And we did all these things about one o'clock in the morning

when nobody else wanted the studio. So we were definitely, definitely the high and leg to the dog, as it were. And then eventually Ken's dream came true because when talents came down there in 76 I guess he gave the go ahead and said yeah

that's not bad you know yeah we'll do that and as I was already working for them I obviously became one of the talents upstairs I spoke with David Hobbs a few weeks ago who obviously you said

you guys have been through a lot together he says he remembers going to New York City at 1 a.m. to record pre-recorded races, voiceovers. Do you remember doing that? Oh, yeah. Was that difficult? No. Really? No, because something was going to happen with them. Yeah. And people would get to see it. And that, I think, as much as anything, drove it hard. because the American public needed something more than baseball. There's a quote from Marty Smith, and he says that passion is undefeated. And I think you can apply that to anything.

Yes, you can. Especially, as you mentioned, these guys coming back passionate about the racing. It's no different than the drivers we see today. How would you describe that passion back then? It's just their sense of something they can do. The Wood Brothers, so good at developing cars, what were called stock cars, that could really stand together. When they ran that race, the Daytona 500, and had those three cars come across the line together, that was a turning point because the American public got caught.

Right? And slapped in to look at this thing again. Because Lee Petty was as tougher race driver as there was. But there was something about him. And oh yes, there was another Petty coming along that was really important. They cared that much. And Richard Petty, all of his life, has been only that. one of the great lines was after

I can't think which accident it was I think it was at Daytona Mrs. Pity said you need to retire and he who greatly respected his wife said when it's time I'll finish up so

down he goes back and he keeps racing and he's so good and he's so good with people because he understands those people that came up and stood in the lane and waited to get his autograph that cared about him. And he kind of has always been that way, that he felt for the American public that cared about this, that he should give something more. In fact, he even took time out to make a new autograph for himself that would give him an extra two or three seconds to spend with a person

when they walked up so he could look them in the eyes. Wow. I mean, that's so crazy. But that's what he believed. They were willing to invest their nickel in what he believed in. And he could do at least that for them. He's a great story.

I think it was Darlington where he really got smacked up and he got crashed a lot. And Linda Petty went in to see him still at the track and it might have been they told. I can't remember which track. And he had said, I'm going to do this until it isn't fun anymore. And she goes in, and he's laying here on this cot, and they put cotton swabs over his eyes so that he didn't get hurt by the sunlight.

And they're going to take him out and down to the hospital. And she really loved him and cared about what he cared about. and she looked down at this mountain of a guy and said, well, are we still having fun? Doesn't that sound like misses somebody? Before we hit record, you were telling me a little bit about Richard Petty. What do you remember about young Richard Petty walking around in the NASCAR garages? Yes, no, and ask my daddy.

That was Richard, who had great respect for his kinfolk. He demonstrated that all of his, and still does. I mean, he doesn't stop. He's there with a purpose. And he's certainly one of the greatest ambassadors that racing has ever had because of what his family is given. And he doesn't have any problem with that. He hurts as much as any way.

hurts when they lose somebody in their family. But he understands that if you do that, the result may be this. And it's still worth doing. If you could get that sense into most people that whatever they did was worth something more. Merchard Petty is one of my heroes and for that reason. Did you think anyone else would join him in the category of seven championships? Well, you undeniably Earnhardt, and that's another family, racing family.

Right, yeah. And he was what they were and so good at it. And as he grew and developed and learned more about society, he changed and became even more aware. And that was a heartbreaking loss. Well, there you have it, chapter three of next level with Ken Squire. I know we teased on the front half of this, a lot of the Big Bill stories, but I want to go back to some of the petty stories that we finished this episode off of because I feel like that was a story that just floored me when I listened to it,

especially listening back to it a few more times. And I love the way how he described in that hospital bed story, how he described Petty as looking down on this mountain of a man. And that's just quintessential Ken Squire. I feel like right there is he is so poetic, so careful with the words he uses. People just don't talk like that anymore, especially when telling stories. I think that's what makes Ken Squire such a treasure. And again, another fantastic example of getting some great stories out of NASCAR's greatest storyteller himself.

And we'll be back with more stories next week in chapter four of Next Level with Ken Squire. A little preview. We'll be talking about the first flag to flag broadcast, which was not the race you think. It was not the 1979 Daytona 500. We'll give you a week. Let's see if you can figure out what race it was. But Ken was there on Pit Road, and we actually play a clip from that race for him, and he actually gets to relive that day.

Some amazing Kale Yarbrough stories. Unbelievable stuff. This, when I walked away from the three hours of recording over the course of those two days, the Yarborough story stuck with me. We're going to hear the famous quote, common men doing uncommon deeds. Ken unpacks that quote, talks about the racers back then, comparing them to today.

The stories. Like I said, if you thought the stories were good in this episode, buckle up for the next couple of episodes. We're dropping them every Monday next level with Ken Squire. I've been Andrew Curlin. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back with Chapter 4 next week. On YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Dirty Mo!