The Dale Jr. Download - Brad Means: Reliving My Childhood with Dale Jr

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr. turns back the hands of time as he sits down with his childhood friend and longtime race car fabricator Brad Means. The two first met on the NASCAR Cup circuit in the mid-1980s, as Brad was traveling with his father Jimmy Means, who was a mainstay in stock car racing. Dale explains that he developed an admiration for Jimmy at an early age due to his hard work and determination as an underdog, independent runner in the Cup Series. After meeting through their fathers, Brad and Dale began hanging out on a weekly basis at the track, spending time watching the races, hanging out in the drivers’ lounge, and running go-karts. Brad also set out to become a racer, following in his father’s footsteps into the world of NASCAR racing. Brad's dad Jimmy recognized an extraordinary ability in Brad and recommended that he pursue his talent of fabricating and hanging bodies, as there were many jobs available for skilled crafters in the garage at the time. This led Brad to work at many legendary teams like Richard Childress Racing, Robert Yates, and Roush. Brad spent many years on the move before settling in with ThorSport, where he currently hangs NASCAR Truck bodies and serves as a truck chief for Ty Majeski. The two also discuss how the Truck Series is the "final frontier of innovation" in the sport, and share their favorite "creativity" stories from over the years. Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Dale Jr. Download merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You almost got some trouble one time at Bristol. What happened? You did hijack like a, like a gator from somebody. Oh? We're taking it. So we've made a little half hot lap on the bottom there. Holy shit. Yeah.

We did what? Yeah. You got on it and said my dad's Donald Hart. We're taking this. The following is a production of Dirty Mode Media. All right, everybody's time to get this going. Brad means my best friend or one of my great friends. I got several best friends.

I don't want to say, I don't want to insult my. my buddy T.J. Majors, who's here on Tuesdays. But Brad Means is one of my best friends, has been for all of my life. And his dad, Jimmy, was an independent in the NASCAR circuit back in the 70s and 80s, and then became a car owner for many, many years through the Cup Series and the Xfinity series up until recently. He's finally retired, I suppose. But we'll learn more about that.

But Brad grew up, his father, a struggling independent, trying to, to get from one track to the next, and we were best friends. And my dad obviously has had a decorated career, and that was a very, very fun time in my life running around the racetracks as a young teenager with Brad and the shenanigans that we get ourselves into. So we're going to try to see if he remembers any of those things and just kind of, you know, maybe get introduced to what, you know, some of the dynamics might have been like for him. I know what my life was like as the son of Dale Earnhardt, but his experience as the son of a

very determined yet challenged, struggling, independent was completely different. And it should be fun learning about that. So let's bring him on in the room. So then hit phones on. So Brad Means on the Dale Jr. download. Brad Means is my friend. We have known each other since we were very little. Your dad, Jimmy Means, was an independent on the NASCAR circuit as a driver from the 70s all through the early 90s, I suppose. 93. And then he became a car owner. You have been a mechanic, mostly body man in this sport, working in various roles as you continue to do today for Thor Sport, as it says on your t-shirt. and we're going to get into all of that.

But thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. When you got a call about coming on the show, what did you think? I couldn't wait. All right. Couldn't wait. So have you been leaning on you because I'm hoping that you've... Have some good stories.

Yeah, we have plenty of stories, right? We could talk forever. Did you put them in notes? You have it in your head? All my head. All right. Yeah, tons of notes. Yeah.

My memories are pretty vivid, actually. from childhood things we did, places we went, you know, people we hung out with, times, drivers, all the stuff, you know, that we did. So, to get right into the stories that I think we're going to end up telling, one of my favorites was when we hid Davey Allison's jacket. At No Hooks, Pro. Yeah. This is me and Brad at the racetrack all through our childhood.

This is what we did. At the time, right, the driver's lounges, the driver's lounge is if they're our playground because we were out of the way. places to go not get in trouble right and back then they would actually shower in the driver's lounge right and that building i think still there yep it's not as i kind of looked last year see if it might be you know in there's like alcapone's vault yeah it was not but uh so the baby comes in takes his havelin jacket off and uh hangs it up and go gets in the shower and we're like what we do so you go over there grab his jacket take that the return duck for the AC unit and hide his

jacket in the duct and leave with the jacket in there. So I'd like to find, it would be awesome if somebody has found that jacket. Really? We left. Yeah, we left it. Yeah, we ran because we were scared. I thought we sat in there until he came back out. We were scared. Oh my God. Well, I was scared. You might have stayed. I was scared. It was nuts to be able to go around those guys all the time. Yeah. And they like knew who we were, obviously, knew who you were more so. But I mean, they didn't, they weren't bothered by us. No. We were not a pest. I'm sure we were a pest, but they, Yeah. We're necessary evil for our dads to be there, right?

So they tolerated that. Yeah. So there's, and like going to Bristol's driver's lounge, you know, so loud, they'd be hanging out in there and Bobby Allison stepping on your shoes with his boots. And, like, just, it's so awesome to think the number of Hall of Fame drivers, people that we've been in contact with our lives in our lives. It's like, it's normal. It's normal, right? It's every week.

And the people that are still around today that you can, that you see at the racetrack and they say, hey to you and shake your hand and that's pretty that's pretty amazing to me they they've never forgot us or you know obviously you know you're a big time media superstar but they don't ever forget the people in the sport they remember us as those little boys right yeah we're old where did we meet riverside california yep what was going on uh i was uh actually on my dad's car cover standing out of the way and uh i'm pretty confident because we were only like 10 uh spent a minute for that right uh then my dad got me and took me to your dad's trailer is you and Kelly over there with the old stacker style

not the up top of the stacker style opposite side of the garage we hung out all weekend you know I'd heard stories back and forth from our dads about hey we have sons you know yeah and that's the first opportunity to uh be around each other you went to more races than I did I got to go to quite a few but you went you went all the local stuff right yeah and um yeah I'd heard a little bit about it, there was you, Brad means, Jimmy means son. And I don't know how this happened. But so I don't remember, I don't remember Riverside. I remember I thought it was Wilkesboro.

But maybe we met, what year was Riverside? Do you remember what year was? 86. 86. Yeah. So I remember being in, in the infield at, Wilkesboro and I was in Dad's trailer. It was a Friday or a Thursday.

We were there for practice. We show up. It's 9.30 or something in the morning. There's no pit wall or nothing. And we're just, there's the haulers and the cars are parked at the back of the haulers at an angle and you'd get in the car back out and pull out on the racetrack of practice. And it's still about two hours for practice is going to start. And Dad's car and hauler were on the very end toward the exit.

a pit road and the next hauler beside us was your dad's and i don't know how i became a fan of your dad's but and this is something that has stuck with me in all sports is i love an underdog and i don't know what that's about but or why i do that but i love like that um that young underfunded team that gets into, you know, the NCAA basketball bracket and tries to go all the way, right? And I love those upsets and the story behind it. Yeah, just cool. And so for whatever reason, like, you know, I had dad as a guy to pull for, right? And there were other drivers, but I became a big fan of your dad's for some reason. And it wasn't just him and other independents. It was just him. Right. And I even, I liked your dad so much that when I started,

racing myself in the street stocks. I painted my streetstock exactly like your dad's because he had this red Eureka vacuum cleaner car with a black hood. And I thought, man, race cars with black hoods are cool, right? Right. And I

so I mimicked that, but dad knew that I liked your dad, Jimmy, and we're sitting there and this was really unique, kind of out of dad, a character for dad. He'd come over and he goes, hey, you want to meet Jimmy? He's right here. And your dad's working. Right.

His guts out. Right. Right. And like my dad goes to racetrack and there's six, seven guys working on the car and he just standing there folding his arms watching, right, and joking with everybody. Your dad's like, fucking doing everything. Yeah. And changing foul springs, whatever takes, right?

And so he says, hey, Jimmy, this is my son, Dale Jr. He's a big fan of yours. And I was really, and your dad, I think even in that moment said, I have some Brad, same age. And I, in my mind, thought that we were put together there. But, and so maybe what I think was Wilkesboro actually is what happened at Riverside. It's been a minute. Yeah, I know, yeah. But I remember I thought that was so neat for my dad because I didn't talk about it a ton.

So I thought it was so neat for my dad to recognize that I was a fan of Jimmy's and that he thought it'd be cool for me to meet him instead of just because dads don't do that. Right. Right. Our dads didn't. Not at all. Your dad wouldn't go, hey, I know you like this. You want to go see him? No.

No. You want to go meet them? Yeah. Nah, no. Our dad's the same. Same cloth, same style. Rough. Like, I mean, just, yeah.

Tough. No communication. Right. No communication. Yeah. And so from that moment on, like, we became friends. And every single time that I went to a race, my very immediate thought, as soon as I got on the property, was, is Brad here?

And where is Brad here? that. And there were other people as well. We had other friends. Scott Williams was one, Scotty. He was Doug Williams' son. Doug Williams was a crew chief. Worked on Bud Moore's team for Evers and mechanic, became a crew chief for Cali Yarborough and other teams. Mike Wickham was Bob Whitcomb, the car owner's son. Bob Whitcomb's car won the Daytona 500 with Derek Cope. And Mike was our age as well, and we ran around with him when he would come. He didn't come quite as often. But he was always a lot of Heidi Bowdine, Brett's daughter, was a friend of ours. And if I saw Heidi today, she's the kind of person to be just thrilled to see you.

Jason Jarrett. Jason Jarrett. It was like we had a whole pack of us. It was. Jason Dale's son. Am I missing anybody? Who else was it? Justin Labani a little bit.

Yeah, Justin was a little younger. Yeah, so, but that was the core group of people, you know. It was like the rat pack Running around It was like Playing in the water At Daytona and Lake Lloyd It's being

It's amazing Like I guess it's growing up In our era Like you go at home You just go ride your bike all day And come back when it's dark We do that at racetracks Yeah

I mean it was kind of the same thing Just don't get Just don't die Yeah Our dads we would I try to explain that to people I'm like man We would

When I got to the racetrack I felt like when I was at home, I had to be, I had to, I mean, I could go and do as I pleased, and I could go out of the house and down to the pot to pier, and I could fool around, but if I went up to my buddy's house, I had to tell dad or tell Teresa, if I left the house and went for any reason, I needed to let them know, but when we went to the racetrack, I went with my dad, you went with your dad,

and as soon as we got on the property, you just, they were, they, they were focused on what their role was that day and you could just do. Right. Man. And when we go to Talladega, dude, we'd walk out to the museum, you know, 13, 14 years old. We'd just, we'd just go out to the museum. Probably not that safe thinking back, looking about that. It wasn't, it didn't feel that dangerous.

And we walked over to the dirt track and watched the dirt races. not tell our dads where we're at or just go right just and i just i we'd go to bristol and walk all over the place you know and be out of the we'll be out of our dad's haulers in everybody else's haulers messing you know in in in the way right and not but not we didn't make anybody mad that was the oddest thing that we didn't nobody cared at that point it would you wouldn't it would now be way different now but like that was a cool thing for me it just blows my mind that we just we just made that place our playground and

we never got ourselves in trouble no ever no I don't remember ever getting a you know what the hell are you all thinking you almost got some trouble one time at Bristol what happened you did hijack like a a like a gator from somebody oh you just like we're taking it so we've made a little little half hot lap on the bottom there brought it back yeah Bristol

what year proud of B 87 holy yeah we did what yeah you got on it and said my dad's Dillon Hart were taking this. And what did we do? We just rode it around, rode right back. Around the track?

No, just like in the pit behind the, but yeah, no, not on the track, no. We probably got escorted out of there for that. But yeah, just kind of, you know. And then we got, what happened? Nothing. We brought it back. We brought it back. We brought back.

They were not saying anything to you. All right. I don't know how old were. I mean, I couldn't have been that old. 12? 12. Jesus. My dad would,

for that he would. For that he would. If he'd known. Right. God almighty. I was like you were like the talkative outgoing one and I was like to I don't see myself as that so I was no I felt compared to me back then yeah you were we were but you're more prevalent in that space than what I was yeah yeah you were very reserved compared to me but one of my favorite things that we did at Bristol was me and you and Scotty Scotty was the orchestrator of a lot of our our plans and I don't remember I think that think he might have had had had been somebody that came up with this but I could see you doing this as well this wasn't really something that I would do but we we were walking around in the

pits usually we were off usually we were in the driver's lounge or eating goof eating candy out of everybody's haulers trickle snickers bars out of his briefcase right usually we were just eating junk food and just messing around and trying to trying to get a good vantage point for practice or whatever we wanted to always be able to see perfectly But this particular day, we wanted to work. And we, one of us came up with this plan to put together a somewhat serious business of wax. That was way more Scotty than me. Of waxing the cars.

The super waxes, yeah. Super waxes. All right. What I remember about this is we're walking around on Friday-ish, maybe Thursday, Friday. we ended up one of the guys on the team asked us if we would wax the car and it might have been scotties team trapp audit yeah there's a drop art at number 66 Pontiac Kell Yarbril's deal it might have been your dad's car I don't know but um wasn't my dad that's for sure um they wouldn't ask us to do that but they were like y'all busy yourselves why don't you all do this we're like okay

just wipe something yeah right and so we wax that car we got done and But that wasn't like we hadn't done it before, but we got done and we're like, hey, why don't we go up down the pits and ask these other teams if we could wax their cars? And we didn't really think anybody would let us, right? Couple of 12, 13, 14-year-old kids. No, don't touch the car.

You know? And so I remember we waxed a couple more cars. These guys, you know, we asked some of the back markers maybe and waxed a few cars. And then we got this idea. We were like, hey, this is, this was right around the time when the bumper cam came out. And we were like, what if we made a sticker?

And we asked somebody if we can wax their car and put this sticker on the bumper. And maybe it'll be on TV. I think it was on ESPN back then. Right. It would have been at that time. So we go over, we get a white sticker, like a sticky note with, and we wrote, we drew on their super, waxers. And we put our names in, I think, pen. Right. And nothing, like sharpier. It was just

like ink pen. And we colored it in and made it best we could. And then we went over to Rusty Wallace's car. And we asked Barry Dodson. And we said, hey, can we wax y'all's car? Car sitting on Jack stands, probably an hour or two break between practices. And they were like, yeah. We're like, we got this sticker. If we wax your car, can we put the sticker on your car? And they were like, where you want to put it? We're like, right here on the bumper. We just want the nose cam maybe to catch it. And they were like, yeah, we couldn't believe it.

Right. So you and I and Scotty waxed the 27 Codiac Pontiac. We stuck this little sticker on the back bumper. And I feel like that I remember, I'd have to go back and watch it. But I feel like I remember us seeing that sticker. Maybe not legibly. Right. Just notice the.

the space that occupied during the race. Yeah, that's our sticker, right? There it is. Yeah, you knew it was there. Yeah. And think back, those cars were street stocks. We couldn't hurt them. Like, you could not.

There's no way if we could have physically hurt them by cleaning them. Unlike today's cars, right? Yeah. You get thrown out of tech for, you know, like moving something 12,000s or whatever. But you couldn't hurt those cars back then. All the pictures of the guys, like laying with the deck lids between practices. Like it was a bed. You couldn't hurt them.

So that was to our benefit back then. So that was one of my favorite stories or favorite memories. And I don't think from that moment on or before that, we'd ever did anything more productive. But probably not. Yeah. More mischief. You know what I mean?

Just hanging out. Yeah. We used to, this is going to not make a lot of sense to a lot of people, but we used to go into those driver's lounges. And now this is when we were like 10, 11, 12 years old. We used to go into the driver's lounge and we'd move the furniture around. to create us a racetrack

and we would race we would walk race remember that? Yes It was dumb as shit and we would walk we would walk around with like our hands like this

out like this is our grill our bumper our bumper and this is our arms were our fenders and we'd walk around and be and we'd run in each other

and bend our cars up you can't be bigger dorks and we were super dorky like it's nuts and we would have these races walk races. You couldn't run. You couldn't.

And it really, we weren't trying to like win or lose. It was just we were trying to crash. Yeah. It's insane what you try to race. And that was also kind of a Scotty. Right. That was the idea.

He led that. He led that one for sure. Scotty was the, Scotty was always going to come up with something fun to do. I think Whitcomb was more mature than us. Yeah. I think he was more out to be in trouble more so than us. Now, he was the one with, hey, I got a rental car.

Right. Like, when we turned 16 and got a driver's license, we still couldn't go anywhere because we'd go to these races and we were at the mercy of where our dads were going to go. Right. We didn't have our own rental car, right? We couldn't borrow theirs. No way. No.

He did. His dad would be like, yeah, take the rental car, whatever y'all want to do. You know that feeling you get when you're watching drivers fight it out on the racetrack, giving it everything they've got for the checker flag? Well, you can capture that. feeling forever with cars from Lionel Racing, the official diecast of NASCAR. The ultimate way to celebrate the biggest moments in racing. These diecast aren't toys, they're authentic, high-quality replicas of your favorite rides

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And don't forget, you can find a wide selection of die cast at the Lionel stores in Concord Meals near Charlotte Murder Speedway and Opry Meals in Nashville. one of the other, you know, we talked about this story on the show before. I don't remember you being there. But some of these moments, it's so singular. And in this particular instance, it happened on top of the purulator hauler. And it was Mike Wickham's dad's laptop. Steve Peterson's. Well, yeah.

It was Mike Wickham's dad's hauler, his team, Derek Cope, Steve Peterson, who would become a top official in NASCAR was an engineer for this team and he had a laptop and nobody had laptops back then. A laptop was like a new. It was probably 10 grand at that time. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. And they had all this data and they were using this laptop to try to learn all they could about this car. And it's probably one of the first few laptops of me and you'd ever seen. Yeah, I've never seen one. Right. And we're just trying, the practices started. And again, when we, when the track was going to be hot, we rarely missed a lap. A lap. If practice began, you and me and whoever else was with us, we had already planned ahead of time where we were going to watch that practice from.

And this particular practice, we jump on top of the hauler in the middle of the garage at Michigan where you can't see you, anyways, to jump up there and watch. And that laptop's sitting there on the corner, up against the railing on this little table. And I bumped the damn thing somehow. I don't know how, but I've knocked it off the top of that truck and it landed. I'm just so glad you did it, not me. God, that's all I was like. I feel the way my, the way my heart sunk and the anxiety and feeling that I, I feel it every time I think about this.

I can still, I can, I know what that feeling would feel like. Yeah. Because we're the same type of. Even though it's years ago and the, the laptop's long gone and it don't matter. Yeah, that was definitely. I felt like a. And you know what? I don't remember my ass getting beat for it,

which it was a beatable ass beating. Right, that was definitely, yeah. I should have gotten an asswomen for that one. But I knocked that damn laptop off and didn't even realize I'd done it. And I think you or Mike Wickham looked over the rail and was like, holy shit. Yeah. Dude. And I look over the rail and I see it on the ground down there and I'm like, that thing didn't survive.

Oh, no, it was like glad. Yeah. What happened after that? That's all I remember. It was like it was overdone for that. You got more trouble for not bringing change back for go carts and you probably did for that. I know. We would go to these towns.

And for example, one was Talladega. And a lot of these little racing towns, towns near these racetracks had pay to ride go carts. And they would fill up. All the people in the industry and hotels and stuff, they didn't have nowhere to go. Nothing to do. So a lot of times you'd go to these little go cart tracks. like next to the hotel at Talladega and you'd see some of the crew chiefs, crew members,

and everybody's being goofy and having fun. Getting thrown out. Right. Getting thrown out. Being wild, bumping. But we knew where all these were. And we knew weeks ahead of time, man, we get in Talladega.

Y'all away. It's going to be fun. And so we would spend the afternoon at the racetrack getting up the nerve to ask our dads for the money. For the money. because we didn't have any money. Right.

That's the best times of my life was every weekend going the racetrack. Obviously back then, right, we had so many races, like you're talking about going to more races. We had so many races close to home, like two Wilkesboro's, two Martensfields, two Rockingham's, two Bristol, two rocking hams. You know, so there's so many races. Like, I was sick a lot on Friday from school so I could go, you know, ride a lot. It was like the best way to grow up. Yeah. It was not easy, right?

It's like, you know, dad's struggling and, like, trying to make races and, like, not finishing and blowing up. It was, like, not the – so that was a thing, you know, seeing him, like, works so hard, right? And not – unfortunately, I wasn't born when he had success, short track race in Alabama and Nashville and that stuff back then, you know. So, I hate that I didn't see that, right? He was a weekly series champion in 75. Four, Nashville, from Nashville. Nashville. But he also –

Huntsville, too. Huntsville, Alabama. At one point he led point. points for at all three at Birmingham, Huntsville, and Nashville. Yeah. I had that helmet. You gave me that helmet for your 40th birthday, I believe. It was in this room at one point, but I've got it back home where he's, it's his championship,

Winston Racing Series helmet that you get. That was an honor back then. It was every to have that. Some drivers would start wearing the racing because it was new, right? Yeah. It was like a badge of honor. Right. It was their own trophy.

Yeah. But to be able to see, you know, as far as not be able to see those times and like struggle, you know, I remember like Bristol was always a tough one for some reason, either to make it because the field was shorter. We had like a lot of problems. We didn't not make the race or like blown right front tires or have, you know, like blow motors. It's always, you went there all the time. So maybe that's maybe why you realize there's more, you had more struggles because you went there the most, right?

As far as your, the times you went. I can remember going and we blew up and we had the red flag or something, get across the racetrack. And I think it was one of the races were Sterling's and the 44 people. airline's car backs in the fence all the green smoke you know with his asphalt right uh and we're driving home and after the end of the race we listen to the race and they would uh the commentators would vote on good his he'd headick award right and it was 500 bucks and i can remember my mom and dad sitting there and dad hoping that he got it oh for you know because he didn't finish and broke his motor you know that's those things are like crazy to think about how the advancement of the sport like 500

something. Now it's got to be five million. It's the way the growth of it's insane. Yeah. But those like I learned a lot, you know, how hard dad worked and I work my guts out steel because I'll learn that for my dad, you know, so it's, I don't have any other way to be, you know, but it's, I remember we were coming back from, we moved to North Carolina from Huntsville, when my dad's straight truck, which he's got back now. I think I'll send you pictures, right. Coming back from Nashville, the Winchewoppers quit. we have to get home could go to get ready

for the next race because the weeks were shorter as far as the prep week was shorter. That race is over Sunday you had to be back to track Thursday morning at the latest.

Right. So pulling her overpass mom and dad opened the vent windows up they get some coat hangers tie the coat hangers to the winchel wipers and hook it in the truck

and go down the road running the windshield wipers so get home. Like so many stories of those era guys just to get home like taking the motor out of the tow truck

I think my dad told you that story before taking the motor out put it in and go down the road and like just to get home. Yeah. The things they did to make it and survive and just to want to race, you know. And I think that never goes away, right? Sure.

If you want to race, it never goes away, like ever. I still want to race, right? It never goes away, right? I, um, speaking about, you know, your dad's struggles as an independent, I remember we went to, uh, Jimmy had the, Jimmy gets the sponsorship with Alka-Seltzer. You designed that car for him. So Alka Zeltzer, somebody, somebody down in the background designed a car, and it was too busy.

It's too busy and ugly. You sat down, drew it out. Tell that story there. So, yeah, we, so I would always ask, dad had people that try to get them sponsors. And then back then there wasn't like we didn't have the technology that we have today, obviously. I mean, I'm sure existed, but not like most stuff was hand drawn. Like from real artist. Yeah, I mean, not a 12-year-old.

But we got pretty good at drawn cars. We did that as obvious. And you did. Right. So he had up the several, look, the proofs that were all super busy. He said, I don't want to show up. Let me try something. So it was simple, right?

You can't. It's just a box. I just drew the box basically as a car. Yeah. And they gave it to them and they liked it. So that was what they picked. So that was pretty neat as a 12-year-old. So then after that, anything that anybody did for sponsorship, I would always draw the cars.

I drew so, I drew so many cars, like different sponsorship proposals, get all my color pencils out and draw it all 3D, you know, like, you know, we, you had to make it look good, right? Yeah. I did, like, cellular one. I think actually cellular one ended up being with Jeff Bodine later and had my paint scheme. Damn. Yeah, that was really good at getting people, other people sponsors. He'd, like, introduce them to people, right, introduce them to the sport of sorts.

Yes. And then somebody else would get them, right? Because they were bigger name, more, you know, more, more glamour, you know, so. I remember when you got the Alka-Seltzer deal and, uh, what, what, you were, went to um i remember going to wilkesboro a qualified 16th and i remember you feeling so excited about um how well he had qualified and something happened in the race and um there was just there's another one we want to talk about here in a minute but i remember that being the the race starts he lost a few spots but something ended up breaking on the car motor blew up whatever

you probably remember what it was not for that I don't for that. Yeah, but I remember, I remember the, I guess not the challenge, but the dynamic, I guess, between me and you where you, you know, my dad had this really great opportunity and would have, would go out there and was probably going to win. Going to win. And your dad was going to survive, right, and just try to make it make sense. and I remember there being moments when you know he would come to the racetrack and have a little extra speed you know

for example that day in Wilkesboro we qualified in the top 20 that was pretty remarkable yeah and then you would get your hopes up and I'm thinking in my head I'm like man I mean I love it if you had a good day right you know and you would get so excited and then when something goes south in the race

I remember the heartbreak it's like you still hang like Even, like, you know, Dad hasn't took a car to the racetrack in the last couple years, but, you know, they could go, like, in the last probably five years they raced, like, the speedways, right? Yeah. They could, with Joy Gase, they'd add, like, some, like, top five finishes or, you know, really good finishes.

Yeah, with the Xfinity team. Yeah. And, like, you hang your hat on those, right? So those moments, like, keep you going, right? Yeah. Because that's why you do it. So, like, is, you'd be competitive. And I'm sure, like, those moments, even today, right?

In my career, what I do, you still live to, like, make that different. and be better and perform. So I know that was for like from my dad back then. It's like, yeah, it's why we're doing it. We can't. We can compete. We can do it. You know, it keeps you like driving.

Maybe when you should, I mean, keep you pushing forward. Maybe you should quit, but it's not, you're not made that way. Yeah. The one race, I think that is, uh, it's a tough one to talk about. But in, uh, when, I guess when Tim Richmond was going through his struggle with AIDS, um, in between, I think. Tim getting out of the car and Benny Parsons eventually taking the car on and finishing out that deal before Kenny Schrader comes in. There's an open invitation by Rick Hendrick for your dad to drive the 25 Folgers car at Charlotte Emergency Speedway.

Now they renumbered the car number 52 because that was your dad's number. When you heard about this opportunity, this is again in 1987. When you heard about this opportunity, what did you think? it's the greatest thing ever, right? It's an opportunity for my dad to make it, right? That was an elite car at that time, right? And to think about Rick offering that to dad at that time. It was pretty phenomenal.

Of all the people. Right, of all the people. So obviously Rick saw something in a race somewhere that, you know. Your dad, weeks before, had ran at Richmond in the Eureka car and drove past my dad to take the lead and led a handful of laps. ended up running about 7th or 8th in that race. And it was probably, arguably, the best day that... Probably performance-wise, right?

Actual performance, right. Yeah. Your dad literally had a car that was capable of winning that afternoon. And I think that that moment, you know, show was the... That was probably what Rick saw. Saw and said, well, we got a chance here. Who do we put in there? What are you going to do, right?

What are they going to do? But here's a guy that, man, Mike. really have the ability to do it. Let's go do something fun. And he won't tear my car up on his own, right? Because you have to. You have to take care of equipment, right? So the coolest thing, I told you this many times before, is like, I think two weeks

before that, before they called Dad, we went to walk on my pottery and I bought a folder's model. And I built a model because we was drawing cars models. What's what we did, right? And I cut the numbers in half and made it a 52. Before this deal ever, before it even? Two weeks before. So it hadn't even been.

No, no, it's just my, I just did it. And that was, so that, that was cool because it was the same number. Yeah. Their fault. You had, not my dad's font, but their font. You manifested this. Yes. I think it's pretty real in the world, you know.

I do too. But, uh, yeah. Uh, it was a pretty neat experience for my dad. You remember going there when, uh, when, uh, so the track opened, I think, on Wednesday for practice. Do you remember where you there? I wasn't for that part. You missed school.

Yeah. Um, what's the first thing you remember about that weekend? For me, the best thing that I remember, or first thing, my memory is getting, so my sister didn't go to a lot of races. She was more like, it's not really wasn't her thing. But I remember walking across the introduction stage on my dad, her and I both, walking across that and getting cheers, right? Because he was in like a good car and starting up front. So that was a neat. Qualified fourth.

Fifth. So your dad goes out there and qualifies the car fifth. and me and you are going to watch this race. You're going to watch it with me in this condo. The new condos in Charlotte Mary Speedway had been built over in turn one. Perfect. Perfect. We see a hold down.

Yeah, perfect. We're going to sit up there and 600-mile race. So, like, we're going to sit up there and watch your dad. Just see what happens, right? It's a long day. Hell yeah, man. See how this goes. It should be fun.

and where the race takes off and your dad being a independent conservative, very conservative. And so he loses a few spots, right? Just riding a little bit, right, taking her easy. Long day. But that sort of conservative style would end up creating a situation that was unavoidable. And I remember dad got caught up in the way. this wreck too. Going down into turn one, I don't remember who did it. It was Derek Coat. Derek Coat. What do you do? Run into the side of my daddy? I think so. Yeah. So Derek runs

in the side of dad. He'll, Derek will come through that door in a minute to argue, argue with us. But it was him. It was a hell of a wreck. Yeah. It was about 20 damn car. It's probably about, 12, 15 cars. Your dad is in it. Destroyed, both ends. Just bad. So they later use that car as a Jaws a life demonstration car for the rats or at a track somewhere. That's how about it heard it. and it was like maybe 10 laps in it was yeah maybe no more than 20 right no more than 20 I'm where's me and you were sitting up in this condo Teresa Kelly the rest of our family aunts uncles other people is about 15 people in there but me and you were sitting up there at the front on the couch right at the window foreheads to the glass right and I remember us crying

like real tears like you know it's like the I had just sat there and watched my own dad. I mean, dad's going to repair his car. Right. He had a, he knocked a toe out on his car, and he ran like the rest of the day. It's going to be fine. It's just a bad day, right?

Just a bad day for him. But your dad's one shot ended that way, and I could not make sense of that. So I can't, like, you know, I'm not really talked to dad a whole lot about it after the fact, but I can't imagine what it feels like, right, to get one shot and that's it. How long you think about,

maybe I get another one or another, There's another, you know, maybe what's how that, how you process that? Because that was only one, right? How do you deal with only one? You know, it's. They never got another chance. Right. I talked to him on our show about that and his response about like, hey, I had to go back to my team, right?

I had to just go back to doing what I'm doing. And I thought I didn't, it's hard to say these things to him without, I don't want to insult him or disrespect him. But he's, you know, he had, he had this taste of what, what, what. good drives like. Right. Right. And he knows what he can get out of his own stuff and it ain't that. Right.

No matter how hard he works. Right. And that's what, but that's where he's got to go back. Right. It's hard. I mean, I can't.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I just felt like, man, what, if there was a, you know,

if you believe in manifesting and you believe or, you know, if you believe in like things happen for a reason or whatever, right? Like, what was the reason for that? Right. How do you make sense of it? What is the real?

I still don't really know today, like why that had to go down that way. Me either. You know, I mean, it's, it's awesome, sad at the same time. I know. Man, we cried, and I don't remember much about the rest of the day. It was pretty. Yeah, I remember riding home and just being, like, heartbroken. I remember I remember the whole ride home.

Yep. Complete silence. I mean, what do you say? Right. There's nothing to say, you know. God. It's, but it's the best way to grow up. up. I mean, my first memories are going to a race. Like, I went to, like, that's my first

memories ever in life. Like, and you're my oldest friend. I've known you longer than anybody in my life other than a family member. Yeah. That's crazy to think, right? We're like, I'm going to be 49 in a couple weeks. That's insane. We're not 10 anymore. You know, it's like time goes by so fast. I don't feel old, though. I don't act old. I don't think. I've, like, I have super high energy. Yeah. I go from when I can to a can't every day. Do you remember going back to going to back to the Talladega dirt track, I do remember getting my ass busted by dad once, and I think this was with you,

and I don't know if you remember this, but dad and a lot of the shit that we have memories of happened around 87, but dad and Bill Elliott duked it out in the All-Star race, and there was a, me and you are walking around Talladega and all over the racetrack. And there was, I kept seeing these shirts. And it was just a white t-shirt.

And it had blue and yellow and red and gold. Yeah. Marks. Like somebody ran. The smeared one. Smeared marks. Tire marks. Tire marks and all kinds of them.

And it said, guess who ran into me today is all it says? Something like that. And it could, you could, you could say, well, it's, it's not a knock on one or the other. Right. Right. Because it had the smears and the colors of both dad and Bill Elliott's car. And so my, my processing of it was, look, I looked at those shirts and I went, oh, man, that's neat.

I want one of them. You know, because, right. I liked dad's aggressive nature. Right. I liked it. Yeah. And, dude, I wanted my dad to push everybody out of the way, right? and so I liked the shirt and I got one we went I got the shirt on the way over to the dirt track

me and you walked over to the dirt track or got a hitched ride I don't remember but we're going to go to the dirt track and watch the races and we end up over there at the dirt track I've I somehow had 20 bucks to get one of them t-shirts and I put that t-shirt on get to the racetrack and there's some airbrushing. Somebody airbrushing shirts. And I'm like, hey, I want to get the three airbrushed on my shirt. And so I go, I take the shirt off, give it to the guy. He pay him five bucks and he airbrushes dad's number three on it.

Now I'm like, in my mind, I'm thinking, now I've made the shirt. Right. Dad's car. Right. And guess who ran into me is Bill Elliott. Right. Right. And we get done around on the dirt track and go back over to our dads.

When my dad saw that shirt, he is, he went through the roof. And that shirt came off and it disappeared. And he didn't see it the way I saw it. Right. I was like, no, this is your, I'm wearing your shirt. Guess who ran into me, Bill Elliott. But he was mad as hell. He's like, get that, my son's not going to wear that.

It wasn't a sports image shirt either. No, he was mad because, yeah, he's mad because it was a knockoff that he wasn't getting any money for. but he was he also as much as he wanted to start that on the racetrack he didn't believe in the game he didn't believe in like rubbing anybody's nose in it off the track yeah he didn't like that part of it right he didn't like that back and forth or being like yeah we just do it on the track just do it leave it there leave it there yeah when he would always get interviewed after he run over somebody oh that's just good hard racing man it's like he's almost

insulted that you would insult that you would He'd insinuate he was doing anything dirty. Yeah. That's just racing. I didn't know. It's like he was oblivious to it. It's what happened, right? Yeah.

So I think I told you a story before, too, Talladega. Back, we used to park the family parking by the family grandstand. Yes. Right. Where we would park there and hang out. And the garage area was, you know, where it is, where it used to be off four. You'd off a four. So back then, we were too young to have a license.

there wasn't like minors, there wasn't what we have today, right? So we would, I'd sneak in the racetrack, dad'd take me to the garage sign in because you used to get an out, infield pass, get in,

get a garage pass. Those rectangular pastel color things, right? So I'd go to the back door, Bruce Rooney with this big cigar, give me a garage pass. I'd sign my name on it, and I have my own garage pass. He'd just give me one, right?

And I'm, we weren't together at this moment. We're walking through, I'm walking through the garage and some security goals. with like a big ego, right? What it was what his job was. Stop me.

Wouldn't let me in the garage. And I told him, he's let me share a pass. I was going to pull my pass out. Where's your ID at? So I don't have an ID. I know this is you. So it's my dad's racing. I have a pass.

That's my name. Yada, yada, yada. He's giving me an attitude. I'm like 12, you know. And he makes a big deal out of it. It makes me sign the back in my pass. So my signature matches what was on the front. So I go on my way

And then 30 minutes later I'm I've left the garage And I'm coming back again With this guy Same guy Gives me a hard time again About this time

Your dad's walking From the family parking In his you know Good Wrench suit gargoyles And I'm like Dale Help me out This guy is

Waring me out Give me a hard time Tell him that my dad's over there I stay out of the way like I don't cause any problems. Your dad chewed that guy up and down. He cussed him. He said, if this boy comes and gets me,

says you're giving him a hard time, you're leaving this racetrack. So he waved the rest of the weekend. He was so nice to me after that. But I was like, we knew where to be in trouble, where not to be. First, cars, out of trouble. Yeah.

There's so many memories of Talladega, too, like you said back then. I remember we were that dad blew a motor or changing the motor. of your blue motor to go the race in August writes like 167 degrees

and I was a shifter guy right if I was there right to 916th whatever pull a shifter out and I'm in there like just

sweating my ever living it's hotter than crap and I'm just like I sweat a lot anyway but for a kid

I'm 12th in there like that and like Ken Squire actually like looks in there talks to me asking me what I'm doing and that that weekend

I forget whose car they used for it, but they were talking about how hot it was, and they fried an egg on a floorboard. Yeah. That was a weekend. That was one of my shifter, you know, shifter moves there, changing shifters out for the,

when I changed the motor. Yep. But that was kind of, you know, get out of the way, you can't mess that up, kind of, right? Sure.

So we got to, that was fun doing that. I remember when, when we were at Talladega, we did this at Bristol, too, but I remember at Talladega, we would be all over the race track when the race started. You couldn't really get,

you couldn't really get a, you couldn't really get a great fan point so we were kind of you know all over the place looking for what's you know just what's going on but when there was a crash or if a car got crashed we immediately went to the garage because we wanted to see the car when it would get towed back in there we just would stand around those cars the race is going on right 500 mile talladega race it's happening grandstands are packed the garage was eerily empty empty right there and a freaking soul in there and everybody's haulers are there and all of the leftover

it's a ghost town back then at that time yeah but all the spark plugs cans of brake clean and glass cleaner and just shi-land everywhere all over the old wooden work benches and when a car would crash or multiple cars maybe the record would drag them in there and unhook it and oftentimes the crews weren't like hovering or busy around the cars they're destroyed they're out of the race the crews tearing down the pit same guys that pit the car taking the pits down, put a hooler.

And so me and you would go and just stand right over the top of these destroyed race cars and just be in awe of the damage and how bent, right? Yeah, we'd be like, whoa, look at the cross members wave, you know, eight inches back. Well, look at the left front tires touching the crush pedal. There's touching the firewall. We just would be in awe of how badly they would get destroyed. and so I loved that to me was so much fun as the race was going on

being able to see some of the carnage but I remember one time one me and you recognized that the teams were leaving all this laying around and we're walking around through there one of the things we used to

do. And it's probably detrimental to our own health, but that Goodrich Service Breaks Parts Cleaner would melt styrofoam. And we, there would be styrofoam coffee cups everywhere, tipped over, laying in the trash. And we would get those cans of that GM Goodrich break clean. And just waste them, right. And waste them. Just spraying, spray in, we'd set a damn styrofoam cup on that wooden table in the garage area. Race is happening. whatever, you know, it goes to town garage. And we'd just spray that brake clean and it'd just shoot a hole right through that styrofoam cup. And we would be like, holy shit.

You know, and then it dawned on us. We were like, why are we wasting all this shit? There's brand new, brand new, unopened cans of brake clean, glass cleaner. There's boxes and boxes of auto light and champion spark plugs laying everywhere. So do you know my dad was actually the champion spark plug carrier? Really? So your dad was AC, I think, at the time, right? Yeah.

So every champion spark plug at that time was on my dad's truck. Really? Yep. Earl Parker, senior, was in Shelby, which is near my dad's shop. And so my dad carried all the champion spark plugs to the racetrack. Yeah. So we had spark plugs. We're good on those.

We did. We'd not have so much of that. We got a cardboard box and walked through the garage and we put everything that was worth in this box and took it and put it on your dad's truck. And we thought we were doing something cool. your dad was like yeah we weren't like we weren't making a dent

in the shit he needed to go racing I'm sure he still used it he was usable right yeah right but he wasn't like he was kind of like yeah don't do that again right but uh

because we were in a sense sort of stealing but no the teams they left it yeah they weren't going to leave that shit and um wow I love thinking about that story um I don't I mean

in my mind we're like Robin Hood but uh you know but it wasn't really like that but you know I always enjoyed you know being able to go to the racetrack and

and and then one day that came to an end we got older right yeah I want to start racing you want to start racing so it's got you get kind of you grow up a little bit right school and things and you can't it was like a light switch though yeah

oh I remember one time like this wasn't you were always working Like you, you didn't mind working on your dad's cars and doing shit for them. So like you just talking about doing that, changing that shifter out. So this getting kind of weird for you. But I remember when I got a uniform. Right. Chee-Chi's was it, the company?

Chee-Chi's was the company that made these uniforms. And Dad's like, don't take you over to Chee-Chi's and get you measured. I'm like, what? Really? Right. And they made me a good wrench uniform. I remember. I remember the first weekend you had it.

Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I was like, well, then it was like, well, I can't fuck around. no more. Right. I'm not going to wear this. I'm not going to wear this uniform and be goofing off. Right. You know, and so I didn't think about that. I was just like, oh, hell yeah, uniform. And then when I put it on, I was like, oh, it's a job now. That's the, I can't, where are y'all going? But my buddies are running around. I'm like, what are y'all doing? I got to stand over here and watch this stack of tires, you know, make sure. Those shirts were so, like wearing a piece of

burlap. There's like a robot shirt, right? It's like, extra stuff. That was a company, though. They made all of them. They made all the high-level team stuff. So somehow or another, I let that sunbitch get out of my damn grasp. And a fan brought it to an autograph session, pants, shirt, wow. Everything with my name on the collar.

That's awesome. For me to sign. And I was like, God, dang, I'd give you anything for this. But I signed it. Wow. And let them, I mean, they weren't probably going to get it to me, even if I bought it. But, yeah, that old uniform is still out there. It's not theirs.

I mean, it is, but I mean, right. It is. I know. But I was like, how did that get out of my closet? How did that? I must have sold that some bitch to buy eggs to egg somebody's car or something. I don't know. Tollet paper somebody's house.

But yeah, I put that uniform on man and I was like, now I got a. It's different, right? When you have to, I mean, it's kind of. I'm running gas during the race and doing shit like that. That's fun, though. It was fun. Experience-wise to, like, so my dad wouldn't let me really work. I was like the, in charge of garbage cans.

I was not, I couldn't, when he raced, he would not let me work on his car because he don't have me to do anything that can get him hurt and me be responsible for it. So I didn't touch any of, what did you do at the shop? The sweep a lot, like, sort of bolt sweep, dump a lot of trash cans, sand stuff in the body shop with hippie. You know, nothing that could hurt anybody. What are some of the cost cutting measures that you and your dad had to do that other teams didn't? So dad was like big time, like back then, right, junkyard parts, like take, steering boxes, steering columns. You could use a GM column, GM steering box, and use them. I guess you erased them. Yeah.

Matter of fact, I remember dad had like, he had like a 70s trailer of stuff in it and an 80s trailer of stuff in it, like parts and pieces. Where are those at? They're gone now.

But they had like, you know, the angles of history were in there, right? But like steering columns with a key still in the ignition, you mean? Yeah. So you'd gut it off

for your collapsible. Yep. For your steering column. You just needed a shaft out of it. It was near the shaft, right? yeah. And steering box. boxes, anything he could salvage or make or reuse, he would like get those parts and like save money to do that, right?

And I remember going to Hendrick Motorsports when it was the one building beside the chassis dino, and that was Hendrick, right? A little tiny building. I think they may have, they used to take the, dad was on the Unicow deal. I think he may have taken Unicow to the Superflow place and they may have swapped it, you know, to use the Unicow stuff. Because it may, because it worked, right? Yeah. It wasn't like, yeah. But it works.

I remember he would take, so they would bring him those 35 gallon cans, right, of bolts. I remember he'd bring him back six at a time of nuts and bolts and we just dump them in the floor. And you'd sort them. That's, you know, so. Use bolts. Use bolts, right? Some of them are brand new. Yeah.

I just didn't pick them up, right? Just put them in that, just throw them that bucket. Things like that, you know. Obviously, Rick's been super great. It was super great to dad for engine parks later on, you know. And he had relationships with other. teams over like over time and they helped him out with used parts and a lot of times he could outrun people with their used parts you know engine stuff especially that was the biggest thing

with the Alka-Seltzer deal for him it was the most money he ever had it was half enough to really do it and he spent too much money with other engine builders uh trying to get better motors or engines right uh and they weren't that good he'd have been better off using his resources and connections to get parts and build them himself because he's always a really good engine builder like Like, that was the biggest detriment, I think, probably his probably his biggest regret over, like, only one chance in the folder's car is not spending the money that he did get for that deal in the best places. Yeah. Interesting. You end up starting to drive.

You started racing go carts. I race go carts very rarely. My dad wouldn't let me go without him. So I painted it the first year morning I raced it. Yeah. Because he was not doing when we get hurt, right? They want me to race. Yeah.

Kind of like similar to you, I believe, you know, with that. You got a mini stock after that? I don't remember that. I didn't. I got limited. That's my first car I ever had. Really? Yeah.

I wanted to buy a mini stock and it wouldn't let me. I have no parts for that. We're not going to build that. Oh. We have no parts for that. Right. So I got like standard boxes. You got a limited late model?

Yep. Limited late model. And is that the car that you were driving when I was helping I was running mess with? So you get a limited, is a late model stock car, really. Right. It was the same car. Yeah. And you're running Tri County?

Tri County. So I went over there to watch you one night. and you're like, I don't have a spotter. And I'm like, oh, I can do it. And I get up on top of your hauler, and we're down in one and two. Green flag comes out. You're starting on the outside pole. And the green flag comes out and coming, you know, I don't know if y'all ran a lap or two or whatever,

but coming up off of going down into term one, you were clear by about a couple feet. And I cleared you. Yeah. And the guy on the inside did not want to let you go on. Yeah, he drove on down in there. He took me out and the guy in front of me out, actually. I remember I'll never forget it. You never forget certain things, right?

I never forget him hit me, climbing over the A post, over the windshield. I remember the drive shaft turning as he went over the top of me and took out the guy on the outside of me. It was nuts. I mean, it's like, you know, it's like, where are you going, guy? Yeah, it's, but. But he destroyed the car. Yep. Yeah.

And I felt terrible about that. And you gave me a free hood. Yep. I never spotted since. I've been asked the spot since, and I'm not going to do it. That's too much of, too much responsibility. It's a lot of pressure. It is.

It's fun. though. It's fun right in the right situation. We were going to kick their ass that night. Yeah, we were. Actually, we had a good car. Yeah. Hey, TJ, you know that I got my own Chevy dealership down in Tallahassee, Florida. We're part of the Hendrick Automotive Group. Yes, I have heard of Darren Hart Jr. Chevrolet. I bet you'd be surprised on what type of Chevrolet vehicles we specialize in. If I had a guess, I'm going to say it would probably be Chevy trucks.

Well, we definitely sell plenty of those, but actually we're really big in commercial vehicles. We actually sell a lot of. crane trucks, or the number one seller actually in crane trucks. Okay, I definitely did not see that coming. Yeah, pretty neat, huh? So for any of our listeners shopping for commercial vehicles, here's some things you need to know about us at Delinhart

Jr. Chevrolet. We have hundreds of trucks in stock so you can find what you need fast. And we have people there that can help you with custom orders. So if you want to build the exact vehicle you need, we can do it. We offer complimentary delivery anywhere in the continental U.S.

Plus, Hendrick Automotive Group is the nation's top-rated dealer group for online reputation. Visit Dale Jr. Chevy.com and click commercial to explore the wide range of available commercial vehicles. Our team at Dellenhart Jr. Chevrolet will give you a world-class experience. Chevrolet, together, let's drive. So what was the place where, where did you get your first real job outside of working for your, you know, working with your dad and so forth? I actually, my first real job out of spite, I went to Bobby Wilman race cars and Falston. He built a bunch of trucks and bush cars and stuff way back in the day. And I just like, I think I made six bucks an hour.

Like cutting tubing and like this basic, basic, basic fab stuff. And then dad got that bush deal to come to a shop, that team Lear, 77 car. Yes. Back to a shop. And I came back. And then I've been a gypsy in my life, you know, learned a lot. But I went to RCR 98 from the first tour of RCR with a, The three truck with Jay Sauder.

Start putting truck bodies on? Truck bodies way back then, yeah. So you went to RCR, then where? Went back to my dad's. My dad's like, hey, we'll get this bush car. Remember I told you? The test, my dad needed to me to come back, help him. Yep.

So he realized, hey, he's pretty good. So you worked at your dad's again for a while then? Yeah. Until they shut that down in 2000. Ran some late mall races here and there, the UA tour back then, you know? Yeah. And had, you know, just kind of trying to,

still trying to make it, but it's not really going to happen, really. So just keep going. And then I went to PPI. Dad's deal shut down. It was a good deal. It was actually a really good gig. Yeah.

Won a race. Yeah, won a race for like a little budget team. And they sponsor money left. Had to get a real job, not at home. So I went to PPI with Ricky Craven. Really? Yeah. I was there for two years.

Putting bodies on at 32 tied car? Yep. Damn. I built the first one at one. His first win at Martrville. Yeah. So then I was driving there. And I was tired of driving an hour

and 10 minutes to work. So I'm going to move. I need to move where I'm going to work. So I need to move where all the jobs are. So I got a job at Yates with Elliot Sattler's deal. It was ruds to end the year, then Elliot's the next couple years. But I worked with Robert and Doug. There's no finer people on the planet than those two.

Doug's awesome. Yeah. So I learned a lot. It was awesome. Still doing, always doing bodies. Always doing bodies. Yep. And so after Yates, where'd you end up?

With Robbie Gordon's for a couple years? at the old Robbie Gordon experiment. I started his Bush team at night. 55 car? 55, yeah. Through the loom. I did those at night while I was working at Yates. I think he's like, hey, I'm starting this cup car.

I need you come. When you come running the whole thing? I'm like, I like this hard stuff, right? So I go running the bush car. He's at RCR. He's going to leave to do his own deal because Robbie's going to, you know, he can do things better than everybody. He's pretty, he's pretty intense guy, right? He is.

Great guy. I mean, he was like intense, you know. We started this cup team with Jim Beam. And that was a rough go for a couple of reasons. And I'd worked, I think, like we couldn't keep people. I worked my guts out. I think the last month I was there, I worked at least one day to like four in the morning. And one day I worked like 28 hours or something trying to get stuff.

I was just like, I'm not going to quit. I mean, I'm not going to not try. We're going to do it. So just whatever it took, we did it. Sleep there, do whatever. And I think I fell asleep on the in the bathroom and woke up. My legs were numb after being there for 27 hours. And I went home a couple days later.

We'd go to Wendy's for lunch. And Robbie had these red t-shirts. That was your work shirt, red t-shirt. Go to Wendy's and everybody is wearing red t-shirts. And my son, who's like five at the time, he goes, Daddy, do they live at Robbies with you two? Because I was never home. So I was like, I didn't even travel while I was never home. So I was like, I have to find something.

something else to do. So then a real regular hour deal. So I went to Rauch for a little for a like very short period of time. So it was a great deal. It was great. It was like, working on what? Bush cars. Who's? All of them. Yeah. Like it was that was when I had like six of them, right? Mark Biffle and all of them. Oh yeah. Carl, all of them. That's when, uh, I don't know how I knew about it. Uh, I need to make a little bit more money at the time based upon things or whatever. I don't know how I got Ty Norris's number. I got Ty Norris's number. I sat down, I meet with Ty,

Berkdale, behind the little pro shop there at the golf range. Sit down with him, have a great conversation. And we go back to work. I'm going to Michael Waters. So I did that, and I was, like, all in on that for, like, two years. Hey, so they brought people in, you know, far as management changes, struggles, like, you know, Cal came, Kaufman came, all new people come, and, like, with new people come,

Have to come new people, right? You have to, I need my people, you're not my people. So you got let go? I got let go. Oh, yeah. Where'd you go? I was, so that's what started my gypsy tour a little bit. Because at that point was there was no jobs.

That was at the, when the 08, when everything kind of like contracted. Like you couldn't get a job. Couldn't get a job. So I started doing bodies on the side for people, like East Car, Bush, whatever it was. I did. Right. So that's how I got back to doing eventually trucks and just did whatever I could do, you know. So I did that off and on for several years, and I ended up going to Thor Sport and doing that for a couple tours.

For Matt's first two championships, I was there and just did that back and forth from here to there, which... You drove. I drove. I drove. Back then, I drove. You drove to work. You lived in North Carolina and drove to Ohio. Yeah, every week.

And every week. Yep. And you'd work all week and then drive back home. Yeah. And you were married. And see my kids and stuff. So it was tough, right? Very tough.

So then I went to, we have two stents between there. Where? I went to Gibbs. Gibbs? And who? After Gibbs were? RCR. Back to R.C.

Yeah. Now with RCR, you built the first three car to go to Victory Lane. Yep. Since Dillen Hart. Yep. So the car, Austin, Dylan, won his first race with? Yes, sir. You put the body on that car.

Yeah, we had a team, but we did it. Yep. Yeah. You obviously, after RCR, where'd you go? Back to Thor? Yeah. I've basically been there since then on and off. You've been at Thor.

I did a little DGR stamp there because the truck's going to be home. How long you've been at Thor? I'm in my third year now. Third year. Yeah. They've got to be getting nervous. No, I moved. I moved.

I moved Ohio. I moved Ohio. Right. I commuted for two years again. Right. Did anybody try to talk to you into sort of settling down and just sticking with something? I think maybe you have. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's talk about innovation. Me and you have been around this sport a long time. And one of my favorite things that you, you're aware of and you know about is the, I think it's 19, 89 or so, Junior Johnson put both of his forwards on the front row at Daytona. I believe it was Sterling Marlin, maybe Jeff and I, or Billy Elliott in the 11, Sterling in the 22. And you, I think it's probably 92. 92, really, I think. Yeah. Well, still, same story, right.

somehow or another, they had some trick trailing arms. And how did they get that? How did they, how do you know what you know? What do you know? So dad had contacts at juniors to get cars. Yeah. He'd get, you know, wreck cars and several of different places. And that's, he would get cars from there.

And he got one of the cars from there. And they literally had just touched the pain up when he got it to kind of try to hide where the goods were. They had like a false floor for the lines under the seat to go to the truck, you know, like they had hydraulic throw-up barons

in the truck arm to move the spring cup up and down. Damn. So like they, he'd got one of those cars with the false floor and it were they pulled the lines out and touch the paint up

trying to like hide it. But, you know, dad's pretty, uh, dad's pretty innovative. Also, you know, now say we're not cheating to win,

we're cheating to eat, right? So that was how you made, that's how you made the race to make money. Yeah. Cheating to eat. Yep. Yeah.

That's a Jimmy Means original right there. I like that one. So what were they doing? Just travel. Rear travel, right? You go faster. So they had a way for the car to pass tech and then a hydraulic system in the, in the bottom, in the buckets on the trailer. Yeah.

And so I also know that they had to take those trailing arms off the car to race. Yes. So they actually changed those. Back then you could load up after Qualifying. Yep. At Daytona. You could put the car back in the trailer. They changed truck arms in the.

in the trailer. I can't imagine how hard that was. How hard. That's difficult. Impossible. You had to earn that. Right. So that had a...

So they didn't race these. No, they did not race it. That's how they put them both on the front road. Yeah, they were going to probably race them. I think probably got ratted out. Oh. So they changed them on part four. They got busted.

So it's in that one video, I think, Stapleton's video. Dad's declared he had, had a hydraulic spoiler on it. And I think the race LaJoy got busted at Bill Davis. for they had hydraulic deck pins to raise the decklet up and down. Yep. In the inspection process, they caught, somehow they caught that car like one car ahead of dad in the inspection process. And they skipped my dad for some reason.

And he took it off. He was, like, it's 50 grand. I'm over, right? Yeah. And got it swapped back out. Talk about the truck series being the last frontier for innovation. And I know you came out yourself. Well, still it's hand, like the, we still have to make the bodies, right?

Still handheld templates, there's no Hawkeye, scan. It's kind of, as far as racetrack scan. Still standard templates. Still standard templates. Yeah, standard templates. We've made more of them in the past two years with, you know, our renovation, but they police a lot more stuff, but like it's inches, not thousands, right? Yeah.

What you can do. So you can actually, if you know what you're doing. Besides the hydraulic spoiler or deck lid or whatever that your dad had, what are some of the other things you remember from the past, maybe not even that your dad did. Well, we did, I don't know if he mentioned the winched. You tell you the winch story? No.

So we'd built, we'd bought, we went to Junie Don Levy shop and bought a banjo front steer car, which is rare. It had all rear steer stuff at that time. It'll make a speedway car out of it. We bring it back and we build it. We assemble it like in three days, I think, for the go test. I think it's this car. And it wasn't very good.

So we come back and that's actually not that car. That car was no good. So we sold it to Quaker Steaking Loop. But we had a Bush car. He sold it to who? Quaker Steaking Loeb for like a display because it was horrible. It wouldn't drop for nothing. But later we had a bush car.

We did not run it. We got scared. But we put a winch at a false battery box in front of the battery box. and there was a winch mounted in there. Damn. And there was pulleys through the chassis.

Through the tubing. Through the tubing. And it went over the rearnhausen and the line went through the vent line for the rearnhausen. To the rearnhousel. Yeah.

And you can sit there on the plate, flip a switch and just crank the rear end down. Yeah. Holy shit. We did test it. It's like six tenths faster. Yeah, I bet. Because it just hold it down, right?

Right. So that was kind of, you know, you heard all those stories from back in the day, but. the car before they were shocks to do that or before the rules about the shocks came in to play. Goodness gracious. Your son has gotten to, is your son showing interesting? Oh, he works with us.

He works with you. Yeah, he works in marketing to PR. Oh. Yeah, because he's not a ninja like I am. Right. So he just, that's more of his, like he gets, that's more his, he started a year ago. How do you help him understand the work ethic that it's going to need? Or does he have it?

He has it, but it's harder, right? Generationally, I think it's nobody, like our generation, like, it's just what you did, right? It's not, like, you can make your own way of sorts, right, with through work ethic. Sure. But it's, there's opportunities for him to do things, but he's been there, I think, a year and a half with us. Yeah. And so he does a really good job. He's suited for it really well, so I hope he continues to like it.

Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel? Visit shop.org.org. We're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a t-shirt. Again, check it out at shop.durdymobedia.com. Do you remember your first trip to Victory Lane? Yep. Where was it?

North Wilkesboro, with you and your dad. Yeah. So that was the coolest thing ever for me to go back to RCR and build that car. Because that meant a lot to me. You restored that car? No, I'm saying. I'm sorry. To be at RCR and build the first three.

car to win a race or be a part of that. Oh, yeah. That's pretty... You connect that. For my childhood, right, that's the coolest thing ever to carry the big fake check down. I hate the pictures because I can... You're wearing my dad's hat, Charlotte Hornet's sweatshirt. Yeah, pictures from that day before that.

Yeah. I was sitting on trailers and shit watching. Right. But you can't see me in the corner because I'm hiding because it's not my... I didn't win, right? So, like, later, I didn't go to other Victory lanes where I built the cars because I didn't want to go unless I won. I wanted...

I was like I wanted to win, right? So that was like, or my dad or whatever. So, like, I didn't go for a very long time to Victory Lane if I was a part of winning in a race because I didn't, it was kind of, that was a special memory for me. Yeah. Just go with you and your dad and your sister. Yeah. Especially there, right?

That was so many memories there too, right? Yeah. You know, like leaving. I remember we left there that one time, stay at the lake house with you. And we left with cars on the racetrack practicing in your dad's blazer. Like, we're just, we're out when he was time from the leave. He was leaving, right? That was the coolest memory.

Dad driving. Yes. And you were like, oh, man, practice still going. He was happy with his car. Yeah. Loaded up. We drove to Morsel on gravel roads and run like a, I mean, it was like awesome. We were about out of hill.

Like it was hauling the mail to get to the house. That was fun. You got any other memories of us as kids at the racetrack that we haven't touched on? We did get in a fight one time. Wilkeshire, remember that? Uh-uh. Yeah, we got a little scuffle over something. I think we'd spent so much time together.

We kind of had to aggravated each other. Yeah. And we kind of gotten like a little pushing, shoving match a little bit. You hit me in our head with a roll of paper, a roll of paper towels. Oh, geez. Just smack me with it. Yeah. Well, how old were we?

Same 12, 13. Oh, Jesus. You know what I mean? Just like. Did we get over? Yeah. Quick? Yeah.

In that couple hours? Yeah. You just kind of, you know, just kind of get all spun out and like, I pissed you off. Right. you pissed me off and you just, you know, like, just whatever. That's what friends do, right? Yeah. I would imagine over enough time.

But yeah, that's kind of, that's one. And, you know, growing up and like going to, I remember, like, racing later, I remember I came up here one weekend to help you on your late model. And we're going to go, we're just hanging out. You come help me. I was in between Hooters races, I had to tie some time off. And you're working on a car than a Martin, too, I think. in the Deerhead shop.

And come in there and working on your car. It's piddling. He was done, I think, you know. And with Wesley. Yep. And your dad comes in. Carried, he'd wrecked at Hickre and tore his car all to hell. And it was in the other part of the shop, sorry.

And your dad comes out there's, hey, I need some help over here. So go over there, work on Carrey's car. It's tore all. We need torches, right? To work on it. Because Carrie could run like third or be like, or tear it all the hell. It seemed like back then. Dr. Roof off.

Right. So we go over there. We're working. We've been there like, you know, six hours working on it. And so we're working. And he goes, where are you going to charge me? Your dad goes to me. I'm saying, nothing.

I'm here anyway helping the junior. And he goes, what are you going to charge me? And he goes, I said, nothing. Dale, I'm already here. I'm here helping with what we hang out and do stuff. And he goes, boy, you tell me what you're going to charge me. You're getting your truck and you go home. So I thought, okay, 20 bucks a day or whatever it is.

He's okay, right back to digging. Just like, that was a cool thing for me. It's like I could call, I think, what is it, 6,62, 8,000 with DEI. Yeah. I could call and ask for your dad and say, who's calling? And I tell him, he'd answer the phone. Damn. As a kid, right?

Yeah. Because obviously, that was your hero. Oh, yeah. It was my hero, too, outside of my father, right? So be able to have, like, a shared hero person. Yeah. It's like a living, like, it was like John Wayne in real life. Oh, yeah.

It's hard to believe we got to do all that. It's like. It's nuts. Yeah. It's hard to believe that our lives have encompassed or involved all these different little layers. Like we were, you know, being the kids that ran around the track and had our little group of buddies and then having our own separate sort of experiences as drivers and then, you know. Careers, different career paths that have felt like their own life. You know, we've like had multiple lives, multiple chapters. And we've been able to stay friends and stay in, you know, some people you just drift apart.

Yeah. Some people you don't stay in touch with. I think for us, right, there's so many common things, right, that never go away and you still do what you're doing. So you can't, you're still involved, right? So even though you don't see each other every day or lifestyles are different or change or have changed or locations have changed, you're still. You still have that. You're still friends, right? So, like, last year when I went to Florence, right?

I shouldn't went, whatever. It was, like, the coolest experience ever. You went to Florence to race in a late model stock. I attempted. The first day, I thought I had it. I thought I had it. This day, not so much. Like, it was like, it was fun, though, man.

So that was, like, as a kid, that was my dream, right? As to, like, we ran those cars, same times, different places, right? All of us. And, like, I love those things. There was so much. Back then to me, that was, like, that was awesome. And like a bush car of 1998, that was like the peak racing level. Looking at short track racing, because they ran those tracks, right?

You'd go to Orange County, South Boston, and bush cars ran there. So that was like, that's elite back then to me. So I mean, so much to go back and get in one, you know, and drive one because it's what you do. You never don't want to do. It's not as a double negative or whatever, but you never don't want to do it if you've done it. Yeah. I think you've, I'm sure you battle that, right? Yeah.

Full-time retired, but you still. Like, it's still, itch to scratch. Oh, yeah. I don't know how, I don't know how I'm going to, I don't, I've got to figure this out because it's coming soon. But I don't know how I'm. There's not coming soon. I guess, I know, but I mean, at some point I'm going to go, godly, man, it's actually not as much fun as this trouble. I don't think it's worse.

It's a lot of trouble. You're not going to get there, though. You're not. I'm going to the track and sweating your ass off and getting, and being annoyed because the thing won't turn in the middle is, That's the part of it. Going to eventually not be something I want to do. I think it will, though. Yeah, I don't know.

Because it's, like, it's the best. It's fun. It's fun. It's so much fun. Yeah. I'm enjoying it. I never, I mean, I enjoy what's going on and I enjoy this life, but I've, I will never forget what it felt like. And the freedom that we had as kids to be able to run all around them racetracks when we were just, you know, 12, 13 years old.

No care, right? No, like everything was great. Right. The world's going to be ours, right? We would, when we would hang out with Jason Jarrett, we'd sit in Ned Jarrett's bus. They all had Bush vans and comfort coach vans. We would sit in those vans with air conditioner running, joking and telling stories and laughing. Ned make you a sandwich if you ask him to.

Laughing so damn hard. Yeah. Just like the. Side's hurt. Yeah. And Ned coming by to get something, you know, get some. Change a shirt. Yeah, change a shirt or something, yeah.

And just being around people and that being so normal. And going, borrowing the money from dad. Borrow. Borrow. Getting the money from our dads to go. They knew we were going to go do it. Right. Go to the go-kart track and pay.

And we would, we'd get in line and pay $5 a race over and over and over. We'd get off and run back to the line and get back in and just run until we run out of money. Right. and then go home. Covered in dirt and shit. All the grime and oil coming out of the exhaust of those. We'd be running in the shit. You'd squint in your eyes because there's getting so much damn just all the deposit.

You bring goggles. You got smart. You bring bubble goggles. Yeah. All the deposits and coming out of the exhaust pipe of those old go-card engines that people rode over and over and over. It just covered you. It was the best time. It was.

It's so much fun. I don't think we ever did get kicked out. Did we? No, we didn't. No. We were too little. We couldn't inflict enough damage to get thrown out. Right.

The big guys would. We wouldn't. Yeah. I remember how serious Scotty used to take it. Like every race was a real race. Right. It was time. You had, yeah.

I know, like, I mean, we wanted to win, but Scotty was, like, taking it like it was a real race. Right. Well, man, I've enjoyed this. I think that we have all kinds of people that come into this room. There's not many people that can come in here with the perspective that you had and the experiences that you've had we get some of the retired drivers and sometimes some non-racing guys there's not a whole lot of people though left that were so tight of in my inner circle that haven't come through here and talked and I've wanted to get you in here to sit down and

just bull-h for for a long time so I'm glad we were able to make it work yes sir me too yeah it's been fun, man. Awesome. You, yeah, I think the line that you said where you're, you're my oldest friend, I probably think that that's true for both of us. And it was, it was an interesting experience, I think, to be one of us on the survival side and the other on the side of a guy that some people say it might have been the greatest one to ever do it.

Fact. And I love, one thing that I love is that the, the challenges that that dynamic created never cost us or caused any issues with me and you, or we just never, never did. Because I think I shared admiration for each other's dads. Oh, man, yeah, it melted it together. It did. It did, melt it together. I'm proud of you, man.

Thank you. You've been a great friend to me. Thank you. And I'm excited for, uh, I'm excited you're finally sort of calm down. Yeah. You're done. I'm too old to change. You're done pushing your toolbox around.

Yeah. I'm too old to change. I was buying a new one. I ain't pushing one. I ain't moving one. I'm too old to change. I've got to settle down sometime. Yeah.

Well, you seem like you're pretty comfortable and confident. Yes, sir. Thanks so much, buddy. Thank you. Brad Means on the Dell Jr. Downlood. All right.

So, great conversation with my old buddy Brad Means. Car chief for Thor Sport, but actually, man, he's the guy that hangs all those awesome bodies. on those trucks where you can still do some pretty creative stuff. But I think it's fun from time to time to bring some my old buddies in here and kind of relive our childhood. I have, I'm not as good at remembering all of those things, never have been. Brad's the kind of guy that we'll get on.

If me and him have a conversation, at some point in that conversation, he's going to bring up a you remember when we did bubba-b-b-b-ber he just has all that stuff uh memorized and and and uh but i i thought it'd be fun to talk about some of the the way it used to be and and some of the old fun we used to have and i couldn't imagine going to a racetrack today and letting my daughter just go wherever she wanted to even if i had a son that i felt like you know understood the ins and outs of a of a NASCAR um garage and infield, I wouldn't allow them to just go wherever they want it, either one. But our dads didn't give a shit, you know.

I mean, maybe, I know that's probably misrepresenting it a little bit, but it just blows me away. But we had, we had so much fun. Man, we would borrow money, beg our dads for like $20, just a little bit of money to go. and we would go out into the infield or outside the track to the souvenir row and buy models and die casts or the little matchbox cars. But we would buy models. And then when we got back to the hotels that night, we spent all night just sitting there building models. Like we didn't have any paint.

We just had a little model glue. and we would build these models and just to crush them or throw them down the stairs or, you know. But we'd sit there all night building models. We would steal washers from the hauler and take them out and lay them on the train tracks. At Darlington, the hotel was right on the right out in front of the hotel, dividing the four lane, was a train track. Still like that day over in Darlington where the teams stay. And we would, the train ran around midnight, one o'clock in the morning every night. And we'd sit up and right around 10 o'clock or dark, we'd sneak out.

We felt like we were sneaking, you know, sneak out, run across the two lane, crouched down, lay some washers out on the train tracks, big old washers. And then we'd go back into the hotel room, building our models. All of a sudden we hear that train running. And then we'd run out there after the train was gone to get our washers that had been flattened on the tracks. Because it'd take a washer man or a quarter or a nickel or a dime or flatten it. Flat as hell. And, man, we put some damn washers on them train tracks we probably shouldn't have. They were so big. It's a wonder it didn't derail the train. But we just did. You know, we had fun.

We're messing around with the crew members at the pool and them throwing us in the pool and being, you know, being kids. But so many great memories from back in the day. And he's the only one, I mean, I still am in contact with Mike Wickham from time of time. And Brad and me still talk quite regularly. And so it's awesome to bring him on. I hope you all enjoyed listening to some of his stories. And his, the other thing I thought that was interesting,

and he jumped right into it, got into it, was talking about the challenges of his dad's career and his experience watching his dad be an independent and scrape everything together and how his experience as a son of a competitor was different than mine. And that we only had one argument. You know,

is I think kind of telling because had I not been a big of a fan of his dad's, I feel like that my own dad's success and how that might have fueled my ego and my opinion of my dad might have made things difficult for me and Brad to be friends. But since I was a fan of his dad and really pulled for his dad to succeed, we both sort of found some real common ground that helped us be buddies but they remain friends today I swear I'll never forget how hard we cried

when he wrecked at Charlotte that was a tough tough day and anyways I hope y'all enjoyed it and we're going to get right to the white flag all right let's go through the gamut of Dale Jr. Download and Dirtymo Media content that's come out this week

and why you ought to listen to it if you ain't. The Teardown was live after the race Sunday on Twitter and YouTube, and Jeff Gluck had a big rant for the team owners and NASCAR about saving money and the run-what-you-brung idea that was apparently floated around the sport for the All-Star race. And then Denny Hamlin came in there on the back end of that as well on Monday and gave his rebuttal.

why the teams felt the way they felt the decision they made. Do you agree or disagree? Who do you agree with? Door bubble clear also dropped on Monday. They had Kyle Bush joining the show. I text Kyle thanking him for coming in and seeing us as any time we can get a guest like that on the show. It's amazing.

He had some really great comments around the All-Star race that you don't want to miss and several other things, I'm sure. Dropping today along with this show is Speed Street with Connor Daily where he's going to share with us everything that the teams are doing to gear up for the Nd500 later in the month of May. And also Herman Schrader, another episode

coming out today. And then tomorrow, bless your heart with my lovely wife, Amy, having a ton of fun with that. What's the drink of the week? I don't know. Hopefully it's a good one. We're thankful for how everybody's embraced the show.

Bless your heart and how great everybody's been with Amy. starting this sort of new challenge in her life as a bit more of a public figure putting herself out there. And I'm happy with how that it's going. Also, something brand new that came out and is premiering this week on Discovery. The Red Bull Soapbox Race. I was asked by the folks at Red Bull as they put together a TV show, they asked me if I would come on board as an analyst to help introduce this to a wider audience here in the States. So Mike Bagley joined me.

We had a blast talking about all of these exciting and creative designs and watching them sometimes crash in spectacular fashion as they go down the course. The Red Bull Soapbox Race, only available on Discovery. So hopefully you'll support that. Tell us what you think. And maybe we'll do another season. next year.

A lot of things going on. The Cars Tour races this weekend at Ace on Saturday on Flows. You want to tune in for that. And that season continues and the rest of the racing world is going to move on to Texas. Hope you enjoy the show and we'll see you tomorrow. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.