The Dale Jr. Download - Called to The Hauler - DJD Classics w/ Mike Helton

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Perhaps no one in the world of NASCAR to never don a helmet carries more presence than Mike Helton. From his humble beginnings at Atlanta Motor Speedway to becoming the sport's first President from outside the France family, hear from Helton himself on his meteoric rise to the top of NASCAR during its heyday. Helton shares new stories about Dale Sr., including how they developed such a great friendship. Dale Jr. and Helton recount their memories from the tragic day Dale Sr. lost his life, and how the sport has changed since.  And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMediaReal fans wear Dirty Mo. Hit the link and join the crew.👇https://shop.dirtymomedia.com/FanDuel: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirty Bum Media. Let's rewind a DJD classic. Enjoy. All right, so Mike Helton's here. Been looking forward to you coming on the show. You said that you've watched and listened to a few episodes, so you kind of know what this is all about. Does anything make you nervous?

No, I kind of worry about saying you. You do worry about things? Well, I want to tell you something, man. I called a buddy of yours yesterday, and he said this. about you. He takes over the room when he enters, demands respect without asking for it. That's Clint Boyer. And that's the way a lot of people feel about you. I'm trying, I hope that in this interview we'll be able to capture why that is. I know that fans know who you are, but hopefully they'll learn something new. You can be an incredible friend, but you can also, the funny thing I think is,

is that when you need to chew somebody's ass, you can get that done too. And there's been a time, there was one time, maybe there were multiple times, but I know one time when you had to get after me pretty hard. We were at Bristol Motor Speedway. I had a pretty good car, but for some reason I got shuffled out of the side, outside the top 10th, and I was sitting around 10th or 12th. We had a car exploded brake rotor on the racetrack and threw brake parts all over the place. and there's about 15 laps to go

and we're running under caution. Typically, sometimes at this particular situation happens, NASCAR, red flagged the race, and I was wanting them to do that. But they didn't. And we're riding under caution, and I don't see the brake stuff.

I'm like looking at the track. Everything's great. Why are we under caution? I'm raising hell. Like, really, F-bombing, G-B-this. And this is in the Bud days, got Tony Sr. on the radio. I think he was encouraging me a little bit as well.

And somebody comes on, I think our spotter comes over and says, they want you and Tony to come to the truck after the race. And I stopped talking immediately. I was like, oh, no, what happened? And so that's when I learned first off that Mike Hilton and the guys in the booth listened to the drivers, right? Right. And so I was saying, oh, man, they heard me.

And so anyways, you know, the race. gets going. I think that might have been the same race where I ran over Robbie Gordon, and he ran over me on pit road, but I'm not sure. But anyways, we got a couple spots, maybe finished eighth or something. And we go up in the NASCAR holder. And me and Tony Sr. still feel like we're in the right. We're going up in there, and on the way over to the hauler, me and Tony Sr.

are going to tell him this. We're going to tell him that. We're going to, and so we're going in there thinking that we're going to tell Helton our side of it, and he's going to go, well, you're right. If you put it like that, guys, then you're... We should have red flagged the rate. So we go in there and sit down. So we're sitting there and it's probably five minutes go by

because Mike's got to come down from the booth. And I've never really been in this situation before. I don't know who's coming in there. I know Mike's probably coming in there, but I don't know who's coming with him. And we're sitting in the front of this lounge, which you really never go into unless you're called. Like, you don't go in there unless you're told to go in there.

So we're sitting in this lounge. And me and Tony Senior are thinking, thinking, thinking, And finally, as soon as Hilton's head come through the door jam, Tony Sr. and me and both go, we start pleading our case. And Mike Hilton said, both of y'all hush. Y'all aren't going to talk. I'm going to talk. And he, I mean, you were so mad.

Do you remember this, right? Oh, yeah. You were so angry. And I was, and when I realized how mad you were, I was so disappointed in myself. for disappointing and angering him, right? And if you know Mike Helton and you, and if you're lucky enough to be friends with Mike Helton,

like that's your reaction. I was thinking, oh, man, I've realized now what I've done, you know. And so he's, from that moment on, I remember, all right, they're always listening. And don't do anything that's going to piss them off. Don't do anything. Like, you got a friend up there. You got a guy that you look up to, a guy through respect. don't do anything out there or say anything.

And I tried. I probably pissed you off a few times after that. But probably not that much. Probably not that much. Oh, so that was the most mad you've ever been at Dale? Hopefully. I want to know what he remembers about that. I really wasn't that mad at Dale.

I just, I think it was a moment to learn that we'll run the race. You run your race car. We'll run the race. If we believe we need to do something, we'll do it. We're not, I mean, we're human so we can make mistakes. I didn't think we made a mistake that night or I wouldn't have got that mad. But the way he unloaded on the radio and everything, I said, well, this is a good time for learning. It's a learning experience.

And I'd learn before that, I knew you're a good student. You absorb a lot and you take it and you make it work. Even sometimes if you don't agree with it, you figure it out. It's good for you to learn it. And so, but there was two or three things that happened that night that really got everybody upside down, including me. And so Tony. They had nothing to do with us. Right.

Tony, Dale Jr. just happened to be. It took Tony Sr. a long time to get over there. He was mad at me for a long time. Really? I'm not sure that he is yet. Really? Yeah.

Oh, man. I didn't know that. I mean, you know, I never, beyond that moment, like Tony Sr. is pretty, you know, wears his heart on his sleeve. if he don't think you're a driver, if you don't think you can drive a car, he'll tell you. You're no driving son of a gun. And it's hard to convince him otherwise. Yeah, I mean, he don't got time to fool around.

And I always thought he had a lot of respect for you. I never heard him say a word about you after that, but maybe y'all had some conversations that gave you that impression. Do you still, when's the last time that you've had to do that with a driver? When's the last time that you've had to sit down and straighten out a driver? I don't, it's probably been three or four years. Maybe five. Yeah.

That's, that's on O'Donnell. That's his job now. Yeah. But I think the, if wasn't in my last one, pretty close to my last one, was Tony Stewart toward the end of his career. Yeah. But we've had several. Yeah. With Tony.

With Tony. Yes. So he's not as good as student as you are. But he, but it was a similar situation. where he thought he had it all figured out. And once I explained it to him, and it took some doing to get it explained, and he understood it,

but I think that was the last round where we had, where our voices escalated. Yeah. Do you remember the first time you ever were tasked to sort of handle a situation like that? Do you remember, because you've been in a sport forever, how far back does that job description go for you? Yeah.

It was an early race in Martinsville. could be my first or second year. So what year you think was this? This would be 93 or 94. Okay, yeah. So you had to handle it? Yeah. Do you remember who it was?

You've been chewing drivers' asses for decades. This was actually a crew member. Oh, was it? Oh, man, I'm sure that you have one, you have an opportunity for that almost every week, I would imagine. Yeah, but this was a crew member that didn't act right at the end of the race. Yeah. You know, that's the thing, is that like that speech that he used, not to call it a speech, but a speech that he used on you, I would imagine that it wasn't the first,

time wasn't the last time to have to explain to the drivers that they don't have the best ideas on how to run a sport. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that can't be a unique situation. Well, in that conversation in the Hall at Bristol, he's like, we had break parts all over the racetrack. We had, we had a reason that the caution was so lengthy. And we're going to, we're going to clean all that up.

We're going to do what we need to do for the show. You are the least of our worries, where you're going to finish and how good your car is and what you think needs to, you know, and as soon as he started chewing our ass, I was like, oh, my God, man, I can't wait that we get out of here. Oh, I'm never going to do this again, you know. That's the type of emotion we've always been led to believe that comes with a talking to from Mr. Helton. Yeah. That, that he brings that aura in that presence. Is that how, was that, do you know that you had that effect on them? No, I learned it from Bill Jr. Oh, really?

Yeah, Bill Jr. was a pretty stern leader when it came to making sure that the athletes in the sport understood, you know, how it all fits together. And I remember walking in a couple of haulers with Bill Jr. early in my NASCAR side, this would have been like in 93. And I felt sorry for the driver for the ones on the other end. Oh, really? Yeah, and there was one in particular. Tony Glover, and he works for us now. So he gets a kid. We talk about this every now and then.

And we walk into the trailer, and there's a whole host of people in there, but Tony happened to be one of them, and he was the crew chief of the car that day. And he was sitting on the end of the sofa, and Bill Jr. and I walk in, and Tony says, now let me try to explain. Bill said, just shut up and get out of here. This ain't about you. So he ran Tony out. And Tony probably didn't check up.

He said, no, you're right. I'm out. He's gone. Tony, Tony quieted down and went on out. And so we got that conversation over with. But Bill was, you know, he was a stern leader. It was his sport. And he was going to, you know, he worked hard to make everybody do well in it.

But he was going to do his job teaching people how it all worked out. Did you guys ever have to have that conversation like that with that temperament? with Dale Earnhardt? He and Bill got into it a couple of times, and Dale and I got into it a couple of times, but not, it wasn't a heavy temperament. It was just, it was a strong disagreement. And I think, you know, I know he and Bill had,

and then I think I ended up in a similar relationship where you could have a strong conversation and just lay all the cards out on the table, say exactly what you're thinking, and get it over with because the beauty of those deals, even the reputation of being a bad guy inside the trailer and everything, when you left all that and you went on down the road, you were going to do something during the week

where you're going to be staring at each other laughing and shaking hands and being buddies again. But, you know, I don't think, I don't, I think Bill Jr. and Dale probably got into more of them because Bill was to Dale, senior, kind of like Dale Jr. was to me. Bill Senior and I were more like brothers. And so we would argue like brothers.

But Bill was a father figure. Right. And so it comes a little different that way. Yeah. Yeah, I think that gave Dad the comfort to be able to go into that holler and tell his side and stand his ground, lay it out. Dirty Mo Media and Junior Motorsports are proud to partner with Vigistics. If you sell discount appliances or merchandise, you need to get in touch with them.

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Unlike the other guys, when you partner with Registics, you can trust that they'll do what they'll say they'll do. For reliable inventory and fair and consistent pricing, visitrogistics.com. That's R-E-G-I-T-I-X.com. You talk about Bill being the guy that controlled the sport or was, you know, sort of demanded respect and kept everybody in line. And you've been that guy. you're the only guy that can walk into or get up at the podium of the driver's meeting. Drivers meeting sometimes get out of hand. A couple questions get asked.

Everybody starts chattering, a lot of conversation, a lot of talking, and there's lost control. And Mike would always stand up, walk over to the podium. Everybody stops chattering and he restores order and tells everybody, look, this is how it's going to be. That's what's going to happen. Carry on with the driver's meeting. and you're the only guy in the room that could do that. There was nobody else in the room that had that ability. I think Jim has it now when he gets up there and talks.

Everybody listens. You talked about Bill Jr. had that ability. You're not going to be here forever. Who's the guy? Is there a guy? Who's the guy that has that? Yeah, Steve O'Donnell's earning that. He is?

Yeah, he's, I walked into this thing. When I came from running racetracks over the NASCAR side, I thought I was pretty smart. I thought I knew the sport. I knew a lot of people in it. Run a lot of racetracks and garage areas. But man, when you come over on this side of the fence, it's different as night and day. So it took me a while to get my legs underneath me.

And O'Donnell, Steve has got a pretty good handle on it right now. Even after Saturday nights, Brace, you know, he led a couple of conversations in the hauler afterwards. Did he? From guys off a pit road. We don't know what you're saying. Speaking of. No, we actually have a lot of questions about that. But I think Steve's earning his stripes.

Yeah. And he's doing it as in his own style and his own way. And in fairness, I think today's culture is different than it was back when you and I go around maybe or hang out. And Steve's managing that really well. And how drivers, how you have to deal with them, what do you mean it's different? and how you, like, discipline? Or just the relationship you build with them.

You know, being stern or being mean, not everybody does it the same way. I learned from Bill Jr. And kind of followed his route. But in today's world, I think the culture is more of, all right, let me try to get you to understand it one more time before I get mad at you. Gotcha.

type thing where I just got mad and just got it over with, and I was fine after it was over with. Yeah. So I was talking about Jim France. He's, you know, he's sort of taken over the reins, if you will. How important is it to have a France family member plugged into, you know, the everyday workings of the sport and obviously at the racetrack? Jim's been around forever, but he's sort of taking the reins visually. I can't say I know what he's doing behind the scenes

but from being at the racetrack and being at the driver's meetings and so forth, it's awesome. And he gets up to the podium. He talks with, he's genuine. You believe what he's saying. And what is, but he's, like I said, he's been around forever.

What is his future? What, do y'all talk? Do you all discuss? Like, what is the potential for his future going forward in the sport? Yeah. I think Jim will, will, has taken the responsibility that he had to take.

And he will manage that responsibility for as long as it takes to get the right next leader of that caliber. I know he and Lisa are very close. He and Ben Kennedy are very close. If Ben were 10, 15 years older, maybe 10 or 15 more years experience, you know, that's certainly as sharp as Ben is. and the different things he's done in the sport. But Jim is, he was always our best kept secret because no one would see him,

but he knows this sport inside and that. I mean, he's the son of the founder. He's been at it in his entire life in some form or fashion, whether it's a kid sitting at a dinner table, listen to his mother and dad, talk about the business, or being involved in it at every level you could possibly be involved from driving a race,

car riding a motorcycle, racing motorcycles, and running the companies. And what we've got right now is Bill's brother, who has a lot of the same characteristics of Bill, certainly has the mind that can see around corners and see how pieces of puzzles go together. And is a studious of the sport as anybody I've seen. And that works for. for us. That helps us a lot putting pieces together right now. But he's going to stay in that role for as long as he feels like he has to, and he's fully committed to it. I'm proud of the way he stepped in, and he's running hard on both sides of the fence. And right now, like in Bill Jr.'s day, we had a guy that was running both the racetrack side of the business and the sporting side of the

business. Well, we're back into that right now. Gotcha. Jim's a CEO or the chairman of the board of ISC, and he's the chairman of of NASCAR. And so that helps the sport. That will make the sport stronger, better, quicker. The hope is, I assume that Ben Kennedy is a big player in the growth of the sport, and his future is, you know, maybe not pre-planned, but it's the hope that he eventually does feel that role for the France family. Is that true? Well, it's up to him. But he has great interest in it. He's a smart. is a whip. He takes on something and he masters it and then he goes on to something else to learn

from. He's a great student of all that. And just a humble, non-assuming individual. But he's, but he loves the business. He wishes he could still be a driver. But since he's not, then he's jumped in with both feet and tackles everything that he gets handed to him with with great style and learns from it. And the big thing is, is that he wants to be in the business. Yeah. He's working his way up, similar to Brian. I mean, a lot of people don't remember, or a lot of fans, today's fans, don't know

Brian's history and that he had so many different jobs. Every, I mean, it seemed like he worked in every department at some point. I can see Ben sort of going through that same route. And maybe there's some lessons learned from Brian, versus Ben, whereas a lot of fans today don't know that about Brian and didn't have that respect for Brian when he was given the reins of the sport, didn't have the respect for the history that he had and the time that he, the dues he paid, if you will. And I think with Ben, there's a great opportunity here, if he is the guy, for fans to know him now and know his

progression. And when he is in that position one day, have that respect that, what, we had for Jim or for Bill Jr. For you. That's my hope. Getting back to your relationship with dad, we obviously want to talk on that. When was the first time that you and dad, do you remember meeting dad? I met him in the infield of Bristol in the Rod Austerlund car. So that was a book.

1970, 1979, 1980. Yeah. Yeah. So I had heard of him. and I watched him race from a grandstand at caroines or someplace. I came to send down here somewhere before that. But when he got in a cup car and he came to Bristol, I went inside and I had helped some of the folks out at Darlington

a couple races before that and had met Judy Tucker. And Judy Tucker was Dale Earnhardt's membership. club guru. Yeah. She did all the work for Dale and the Wrangler organization and all that stuff. And so I had a chance to meet Dale, and it was an easy conversation to have. It wasn't anything that it just seemed like we clicked. But he way back then.

Yeah. He had his mission, you know, at that moment. But then after that moment when we'd hang out in Bristol or now, Nashville because I was still living in Bristol back then. You were working in radio? Yep, the W-O-P-I radio in Bristol, but I'd work part-time at the racetrack, which a lot of racetracks back then only used part-time. You know, you'd literally go in and clean it up two weeks before the next race and get

it ready and throw some paint where you had to and cut the grass. And then I, but I remember going to Nashville and hanging out and hitting, and your dad would stay with Ed Clark in Nashville. Ed had an apartment down there, but he lived in Bristol too, and we'd hang out. And so just kind of watching him progress in the sport was my first attachment to somebody that I didn't have or that I didn't learn from from just being a fan of the sport, like a Richard Petty or a Cail Yarber or Bobby Allison. and your dad was one of the first guys that I watched kind of, you know, work his way up into being who he turned out to be. And that was a fun deal.

So way back then, you guys got to connected. I mean, you go through decades of being around each other and racing around each other. Eventually, you went over to Atlanta Motor Speedway as a GM, right? That was before Talladega. Yes. you're the GM of Atlanta Motor Speedway. You're working in radio. You get a call to come over to be a part of NASCAR.

And what is being the GM of Atlanta Motor Speedway in, I guess, the 1980s? What does that entail? Well, you did. It was like running a farm. You did a lot of everything. So I was in Bristol and Tom Roberts, TRPR. Oh, wow. He's the PR guy in Atlanta, and he's going back to Nashville.

He wants to go back to Nashville. and Joni. And we were at the race in Bristol and he said, I'm going to go. And back then the track was owned by Walt Nix and LG DeWitt. L.G. owned Rockingham, but he owned half of Atlanta with Walt Nix. And I met Walt at the Bristol race. And he said, well, come on down. We got an IndyCar race in a couple of weeks. So I drove down there and hung out. And so I started off in the PR business at Atlanta. And then I worked my way up to being general manager, but even still, it didn't matter. If you were PR or ticket sales or general manager the place, you know, you were general manager on race weekend, but the rest of the time,

you were painting and cutting grass and making sure fences were right and all that other stuff because it was a small staff. But it was a lot of fun. Yeah. And you have a place in Atlanta now. Yes. Did you, is that, did you have that first? I mean, when, so what's the connection to Atlanta? Is Is it from that job as a general manager? I met Linda my wife in Atlanta. Okay. And so she's got a lot of family in that area. I liked Atlanta.

But the piece of real estate we got down there, I didn't buy it until like 1998. But I knew of it when I was running the racetrack. It was a cattle farm. And I always enjoyed just driving by it because I just like the, I just like the looks of the big cattle farm. and then I left and went to Talladega. I left Talladega and went to NASCAR. When you went to Talladega, you took over GM right away? Right.

And so what's the difference between the, you know, GM? Is it the same job, same responsibilities? Is there, is it, is Talladega sort of a more, is there more prominence in that racetrack because, you know, Bill Seniors investment in it and building it and the history it has with the sport. Because you hear a lot of guys that, you know, there's been sort of a trail of many people that work their way up through the sport go through Talladega, right? There's a lot of history of people doing that. And so did you know, I guess when you get the opportunity and you get

to call to go to Talladega, you're like, hey, I must be doing something right. No, I didn't look at it that way. I just thought it was a great opportunity because I loved Talladega. I mean, when I lived in Bristol, I'd love going to races in Talladega. I thought that was the greatest place in motorsports outside of Bristol to go run races. And so when I got the opportunity, but backing up just a little bit. So in the 80s, most all the racetracks were individually owned. So Atlanta was Walt and LG and Rockingham was LG and Bruton Smith owned Charlotte.

but somebody, the Sawyers owned Richmond, so they were all individually operated. Daytona built Talladega. So they were connected. And they were also connected on the NASCAR side because of the family. Right. So as the sports started growing and you were looking at, and I think most people that go through Daytona, Talladega do that because there's, that was the

well let me see how to say it said in those days the France family made a living off of racing yeah that's all they had you know Roger had Michigan and Walt was selling airplanes and LG was selling peaches and everybody else

had some other business and the racetrack was not necessarily a hobby but it wasn't its primary source of income the France family depended on racing NASCAR had a work right, Daytona had a work right, Talladega had a work right. And so I think when there's,

when you're looking at your next career step, if you had the opportunity to go to work for the France family, you did that because you wanted to stay in the business. And you got the best opportunity. And I was lucky enough to, to, to, from Atlanta, it's actually Jim Hunter and Les Richter that said, hey, you know, there's, there might be an opening in Talladega. You won't take a look at it. And I said, Yeah. Right. So now you're in the family. That's my point.

Like you're sitting there thinking, man, this is, I must be doing something right. And there must be more, somebody sees a bigger future for me in this sport than what I'm seeing. So you go to Talladega managing that racetrack. So is it different as you're working, almost working with for NASCAR versus Atlanta? What are some of the things you're seeing at Talladega as a GM that led you to eventually working in the NASCAR? in the NASCAR family. Well, in Talladega, you're right. You're closely aligned with the NASCAR component.

Right. Just through Bill and the NASCAR employees. And because you shared, you just shared resources. You know, Bill Jr. was driving the ship on both sides. And so he was a common denominator. I talked to him as much as Les Richter would. But my specific issue is about Talladega. but when NASCAR came to town, you felt like you were part of that entire family.

So you spent a lot of time talking to them, working with them, you know, in that era when we switched from having to go to garage sign in and sign in to the hard credentials that made life easier for everybody. ISE and Daytona and Talladega kind of worked for NASCAR on that because we were the, Bill Jr. didn't have to ask for our permission to do it, sort of speak. you know, he could do it through there so we could use those as test steps, sort of speaking. And in that era, there was a lot of good stuff going on. You know, Winston had shown up.

Cable television was predominantly being pushed through the rural communities. They were looking for content. We had great content, still do. But so we were doing things. We were in Atlanta, we would probably build 12, 1,500 seats a year. By the time I got to Talladega, we were building 3,500 seats a year. About what year is this? This would be in 86.

Okay. All right. And so, you know, the sports growing. You know, a sellout in Atlanta, when I was there, it was maybe 22,000 people. And about 18,000 of those we'd sell on race day. Wow. You really had to keep your fingers crossed. for good weather because it was, you'd sell, you'd sell a handful of tickets to people coming back

and they wanted the same seats. But, but in that early 80s, it was, you were, you spent a lot of time managing how to sell tickets and pick up cash out of ticket booths and have the ticket boost structures. And you spent a lot of time operating a track with that element to it that, that we don't do as much today, but the technology is so much better. Yeah. But we relied very heavily on walkup back been to sell place. I don't really, yeah. But is, in your time as general manager at Atlanta and Talladega, what's the most epic race that you recall that stands out that you just,

to this day as a general manager, what is your, what is the one that comes to mind? That's a good question. I don't, uh, actually I was in Atlanta watching the race in Talladega when Bill Elliott made up two laps. Yeah. So it, I wasn't running Talladega then, but I was running Atlanta and I was in Talladega watching that race. And that's one that I just, it comes to my way.

mind when you talk about Atlanta at Talladega. And then later on there was some great races in Atlanta. And I was running Talladega and come over to watch the race with when Alan Kowicki won the championship. But I was running Talladega watching a race in Atlanta. 92. Wow, yeah. I mean, because the reason I ask is I would imagine if the explosion of fans and the reason

to build on grandstand seats, the racing on the track and the stuff had been amazing. And it was, man, I mean, you think about some races and some of the competitors back in those late 80s, early 90s, man. They put it all out on the line, both of those places. Atlanta, especially when it had that oval. Yeah. You know, that old configuration was fantastic. Well, that's what's great about walking through the Hall of Fame

and you see the age of the cars, like all these little models sitting here. And these are real race cars. Hell yeah. And you walk through the Hall of Fame and you see the difference between a K-2 and a modern-day race car. It's phenomenal to the thing. think that the pioneers of this sport drove those cars under the circumstances they drove them. We were doing an event for Richard Childers last week and had the three Monte Carlo there,

the black three Monte Carlo. And when you stand there and look at it, you wonder how in the world they drove those things for 500 miles at 200 mile an hour in Daytona, Talladega. It's pretty remarkable. So you're working at Talladega as a GM? What's what happens next? How do you, what's the next step for you? Bill calls up and says, hey, do you, Les Rector is going to go to California and help Roger open up California Speedway. And I need a vice president of competition.

And I said, okay. Now is it? You know, every time Bill said, I need you to do something. Right. I didn't question it because I knew it was going to come out. All right. So what's vice president of competition doing? Well, at that point, we were,

there was a very small group, and we did all the sanction agreements, We made the schedules. We organized everything. And then, like at that time, Gary Nelson was the series director of Winston, I mean, the Winston Cup series. But the vice president competition would be the relationship

and the liaison with the racetracks, the memberships and manage all of that paperwork that goes behind the scenes. But then on race weekends, the vice president competition would be the senior competition person today at Scott Miller at the race track. So Scott Miller, he's kind of the talking head when something goes down. He's the guy that gets put in front of the camera for NASCAR to give their sort of side of things.

And that was you coming out of Talladegh? Is that when your and dad's friendship really started to, because he could spend more time, y'all were around each other more? He's obviously, you're working more hands-on with the drivers as opposed to being in Talladega all the time. You know, how did you guys get to become such great friends? because you're not the enemy, but, you know, you're kind of wanting, you're both wanting the same thing. You're both trying to fight for the same thing. You want a healthy sport, but he's a driver and you're the official.

How do you guys become such great friends? I think you, well, your dad's unique personality drove most of that. So over the course of time at racetracks, the thing about Dale Senior, he would go into the ticket office or the administration office every racetrack, every race weekend, and say hi to everybody. Really? He would. Yeah. Every employee at every racetrack would see Dale Sr. on race weekend.

And that's kind of the relationship he had with the industry. Now, if he called up and said, hey, I need three extra parking tickets or something like that, the relationship worked both ways. but he knew he'd come into NASCAR during Daytona. He'd come into the office building and walk to every floor, every desk. Really? And say hello. And so that was his unique personality that did that. But along the way at the racetracks, he and I figured out with Richard Childers

and with Bill Jr. connections that we had a lot in common. We liked hanging out and all that. So when I end up on the NASCAR side, now, you know, he says welcome to the dark side type thing. Yeah. And it gets, he's, and we have the conversation at dinner one night with Bill Jr. and Dale and some other folks that, you know, we're going to argue about stuff. But, you know, two or three days from now just won't seem that important.

But, you know, let's argue and be fair with each other. And so as time went on, my phone would ring six o'clock in the morning. and I knew it was either going to be Bill Jr. or Dale Sr. One of the two of them because they were, but if it's something that your dad didn't like on Sunday, first thing Monday morning phone would ring for even, you know, before I had the first cup of coffee. But he worked through all those things just to get them out of the way so he could go back and be himself with whoever he wanted to be with himself. You know, he was just that unique type of character. So, but the other thing I think that bonded us a lot was Bill Jr. enjoyed your dad's company a lot.

And Richard Childers is too. And relied on Dale's input for what the garage area may or may not need and relied a lot on Richard's input along with Budmore and some of those individuals. but Richard was a key player. But Bill Jr. would put together trips. And so it'd be me and Linda, Bill Jr., Betty Jane, Dale, Teresa, Richard, and Judy. And we'd go to Europe. We went to Monte Carlo. We went to London and Paris and we went to Tokyo on the way to Suzuki.

Yeah. And I mean, just had a really good time socially and mesh together and everything. And so that's where I think we bonded to the point to where we could have a brother talk. And if he didn't like it, he was going to take us to task publicly on a TV camera. He would? Oh, yeah. He'd take us to task over the radio in his car. Did that drive you crazy?

I mean, when anybody goes to task publicly, when you have, he had already developed that channel in to do it privately. Did that ever, what did that mean when he would do it publicly? Well, it still stings. I mean, when you hear it being said and understand there's thousands of other people hearing it, it stings a little bit more, but you work through it. You get through it. Did you ever take it personal? I couldn't help but take it personal.

Right. He would take that personal. You know, if we'd change something back in, we were changing spoilers or whatever, you know, almost every week. If it was a change on the Monte Carlo where he thought it fits or helped somebody else out, he'd take that personal. You just don't want me to win any more races, do you? And part of that was joking, but you also knew part of it had to come from somewhere. I was going to ask what, you know, I didn't expect you to tell me what the disagreements would be, but I think you kind of hit it.

If it was a competition thing, that's where drivers feel it the most, I guess. I would assume that that's what Dale Earnhardt would take exception to most of the time, right? Well, yeah, but I think that might have been an easier topic. on the, I think the other things that Dale Senior kind of led in our industry is he smartened up other drivers and car owners on how to participate in the sport, the marketing part of it. Oh, wow. You know, the Chase Authentics. That was your dad that put that group together, but he didn't do it on his own.

He knew Jeff Gordon and Rusty Wallace and Dale Jared and those guys needed to be part of it. You know, and so he kind of, he won't ever get the great. amount of credit for it. But he was, that's how big a thinker he was. He was a student of everything. And he understood how to make bigness out of it. So you talk about collaboration, you know, y'all going on trips, dad coming up in the hauler and talking to Bill or Bill leaning on dad,

Bill leaning on Richard Childers. That's sort of, like today, we have tons of collaboration in the sport. got driver councils and competition councils and owners and the owners have formed their association. And it felt like when I was a driver, I always thought, you know, I thought the drivers council was a great idea. But initially we were going to organize ourselves. Me and Denny and Jeff Gordon got together and were going to organize the drivers. And then NASCAR said, well, we'll just have a driver's counsel, you know, and okay, that's a great idea for the drivers to get together and we'll try to help you guys sort of, you know, tell you what we need. As I got out of sport,

I don't feel that way anymore. I've changed the way I think, and I don't think that all the collaboration is helpful, and it slows and drags the sport down. It felt like it was better when it was one or two guys, a couple trusted drivers, a couple trusted owners, and there was a stern, Bill Jr. or Mike Hilton style guy at the top of the heap telling everybody this is how it's going to be. You say the sports changed, the culture's changed,

and things are different. Do you feel like the collaboration that we have with the driver's councils and all that is the future? Is that the way, is the sport going to be run or kind of controlled by this, you know, many different layers between the competition committee, the owners and the drivers and obviously the industry. I know the Drivers Council sort of influx now.

I don't even know if that's got a future at all going forward, but it just seems like the collaboration has really ramped way up. And how do you see that today? And do you think that it's, do you guys enjoy working with the teams that closely? Do y'all enjoy working with the competition that closely? because I thought it was always better when Bill Jr. was at the top going, here's what we're doing. Everybody fall in line. Now it's like everybody has an opinion or they're entitled to it and voicing it. Well, there are a lot of opinions. And the cycle

of building these collaborative elements was probably necessary when we did it. And they'll serve a purpose. But I think in the meantime, what you're going to see is is confidence in a gym France from the owner's side, a confidence with a group of drivers with Steve O'Donnell to be a good relationship to call, pick up the phone and said, hey, you know. And those are real important elements for the integrity of the sport and for making the right decision. At the end of all these dialogues, and you're right, it seems like we take too long to turn the boat around sometimes. But I think what the spirit of that is, is in the past, all of this dialogue would be held internally by just a few NASCAR folks. Right. And we'd say, well, this is,

you know, this is what we know from over here. This is what we know from over there. And we'd make the decision and everybody that didn't like the decision would say, well, where did that come from? And they wouldn't understand all the back work, back channel work on it. The good thing I think with the councils and all that collaboration now is that everybody understands all the thinking that's going into it from our side. We share all the thinking. At the end of it, I think what we're getting better at doing is sharing our thinking, narrowing it down to a quick decision and then NASCAR will make the decision because I don't think you get

any group or all the groups together, you're going to have a universal decision. But I think, I think there's confidence in the decisions that NASCAR starts making now because they understand more about NASCAR's thinking, if it makes sense. But the influence from a driver, the influence from a car owner, the influence from a track operator, those are still important. and are the ones that that happen between all the council meetings. You know, those, and Steve's building relationships with drivers that he will call. Individuals. Yes.

And say, what do you think about this? That's pretty cool. One of the, you know, obviously dad would probably, I'm just going to assume dad would be at top of the list. But back in, you know, say, let's just say 90s, early 90s. Aside from him, who are the drivers that you guys that would come up in that holler and actually get y'all's ear on different topics and what the drivers wanted or needed or what they were talking about besides dad? Well, Rusty was a good voice.

Dale Jarrett, both Labonte's, Terry and particularly, but Terry did it in an interesting, unique quality. How so? Just quietly. Yeah. But if Terry walked in a trailer and said, hey, I need to talk to you about something, you knew you better shut up and said, I don't listen. because he would do it.

See, you should have just gone in there Bristol quietly like Terry did it. You would have got a lot more to say. Well, we've had some interesting conversations with Terry in Bristol. That's right. We were the ones that were called on the carpet. But the, you know, but in the era with your dad, he inherited that ability. Takes time. Yeah, but I think the key drivers or all the drivers in the garage area, he said, well, Dale, what do you think?

And if he said, no, I don't mess with it, then it never came up. But if he said, yeah, you know, I'm not too sure, but let's go together and talk about it. So he'd bring Rusty and Dale Jerry with him, you know, but sometimes he'd come in and just on his own. And you just, we paid attention to everybody that come in there. But when Dale walked on the truck, you didn't know if he was just going to sit there and shoot the bull with you or tell you about a deer he just killed or where he was going next to do something or if he was going to have a racing topic. And so it kind of all blended together. It was a social visit that could turn into a business competition. And then eventually one day you gave, you called up me and a couple of the drivers and said that you wanted to get together.

and talk about some ideas. That was sort of the beginnings of what the driver's council is today. If my memory serves correct, it was me and Harvick and Jeff Burton and Jeff Gordon, I believe. And I think Jimmy came to Warner. Jimmy came to Warner to. And we would actually meet up at my western town. Oh, yeah. I remember this.

Well, for one, this was an excuse for Mike to see it. Mike had never seen it. And it was also great to have Harvick and Burton and those guys to come see it. They would never, you know. She was like, never hang out of them. We were never inviting each other over. So, but we did.

We talked about double file restarts. Mike says, you know, hey, what do you guys think about, you know, putting the lap guys in the back and having double file restarts, everybody, you know, and figuring out a way to, you know, make that work. And there was a good handful of things that we sort of hammered out. And I know you, NASCAR already. had the idea and the plan in place and moving forward. But that's kind of how dad, you know, you had dad and those drivers sort of doing it the way

they did it. And then it transitioned into us meeting up with Mike. How did that, how did the idea to get us together come about? How fruitful was that for NASCAR? And is that really kind of what started the driver council? You know, yeah. it started a lot of the councils actually, but the drivers were a key component

when we were going to change up procedures in the race. You know, whether, I remember when pit road speed came up. You know, it was something you had to vent through. But I think what in that era where we would get together, that group would get together. We had a narrow list of things that we were getting ready, maybe to pull the trigger on, but I said, hang on a second.

Let's talk about it with a group of drivers that we have confidence in to tell us what they're thinking before we would finalize it, if that made sense. Because a lot of times just sitting around there talking about things, you all would give us ideas that we hadn't thought about. And then we tweak it a little bit after that. But that was kind of the start of today's version of the collaboration with the different groups, the drivers, the teams and tracks and everything. And with Jim coming in and sort of taking over a bigger role, Lisa, obviously, you know, taking over a bigger role as well and creating relationships,

I'd heard over the past this year that they went on a trip with some drivers. There was two or three different trips where the industry took drivers to different places to hang out and just build relationships. That's going on now. Yeah. We haven't done that in a while. And kind of, Jim and Lisa kind of wanted to start back up to get to know both the veterans, if you will. But then the younger guard in separate environments.

So we've had a few of those. Yeah. And that's just creating relationships with the guys in the industry. It's getting to know them, but giving them a chance to get to know us. Right. You know, to get to know Steve Phelps and get to know, you know, Chase Elliott knows Steve O'Donnell pretty well. But to get to know Steve Phelps, to get to know Jim France, to get to know Lisa Kennedy in a casual social environment, that's what built the relationship between me and your dad. And the France family has always been really conscious of it's the relationships in our business that keep us glued together.

Yeah. Did NASCAR sort of lose its way? Because you put in so much emphasis in the relationship building. I wondered, is that a response to maybe getting away from that a bit? I don't know that I would call it losing our way, but I think it's certainly something that said, well, this worked before. Why don't we do it again? Right.

There's times when I feel like NASCAR takes unfair criticism. And then there's sometimes that I feel like NASCAR probably takes fair criticism that even you guys would determine it's fair criticism. I mean, like, what comes to mind when you think of unfair or? versus fair criticism NASCAR's taken over the years? Well, I don't know. It's kind of hard to separate those. But you're right.

There's both. I mean, I think sometimes the industry or a component of the industry jumps to a conclusion without knowing everything behind the decision. Of course. But sometimes the feedback or the public outcry is, oh, shucks. You know, we might have, we might have. we might have done that wrong. Let's back up and start over again.

So it goes both ways. So getting back to your all's relationship with dad, vacationing with dad, y'all used to have this trip in, I don't know if it was always in Key West, but in the middle of year, right around Daytona, there was fishing trips. Between, you know, everybody had boats at the time, like Bill Jr. had a boat. Dad would have a boat. But a lot of, I think even, I don't remember if Rusty have a boat. No, but we'd find one.

He'd find one to put him on. So that was another one of those deals where it was, well, it was industry. It was all, it was Bill Jr., all you guys, and some drivers. And y'all were going to, in the middle of the season, go fish. And team owners. And team owner, yeah. So Richard and all those guys. So, and y'all don't do that anymore, unfortunately, because now that I have a house in the keys,

y'all decided not to keep that tradition going. When we started that, we were doing in Bahamas. Really? Ors Arbor Bahamas. Really? Yeah. And so what, would you,

I imagine y'all talked about, you know, ideas and things y'all wanted to do or what, you know, where the drivers were at, where the owners were at, but who was, who was the best fisherman? Who was a good fisherman on there?

It was generally come down to Bill and Dale. Really? Yeah. And was it competitive, I imagine. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's got some competitive that we'd have to be sure when the way in came in

that they weren't sinkers and lead and stuff inside. They were tinkering with the rules, even then. Putting weight in the fish? Oh, my God. Crazy. Yeah, it was competitive. Yeah. That's so funny.

They had that a couple times in Key West. It was a lot of fun. And I wish you guys still did that. That's when you need to crank back up. We may talk about that. And the other thing is Steve Phelps and Jim, and we're talking about, you know, now we've got a group like yourself, Jeff Gordon, Jeff Burton, Bobby Labani,

Jamie McMurray that are looking through a different lens. Yeah. Like you were talking earlier, you look at it differently now. And I think that'd be a good one to put that group back together and go to the keys with. I don't know that we get anything accomplished. Well, for you guys,

I don't know that accomplishing things is really the goal of that trip, right? I mean... Well, I mean, if we... You'd always sit around and something would come out. I mean, at the end of the day, when everybody was kind of cleaned up and through the competitive part,

and you sat around back and you start talking about something, and it'd be entered. You'd get some input. Yeah. Hey, I got a question for you, because we had put out a question on our social media, and you're talking about all this general managers and stuff like this growing up. And if you had never – if you talked about you started in radio, but if you had never gotten into racing, like, was radio your career path?

Certainly with my strength. What would have been? What do you do if you're not racing? Well, you know, I think – I don't know to answer the question because it just kind of flowed and I kind of just got into it, not by design, but just got on the wagon at the right time. But I probably ended up at a car dealership. Okay. What Dale says you studied math?

Is that right? So you were a math guy. Numbers came easy, so when I had to sign up for a major in college, I signed up from math. Boy, and I'm looking for easy majors. I don't think math. That doesn't jump off the page. That was back in the early 70s. I think freshmen and high school are studying the way we studied in college.

change that much. Leah, do you want to give us a few of what people think that Mike Helton would have been? I mean, just like in everything else, the race fans have the best ideas on what you, so you just listen to them. They will tell you, right? Yeah, we had a lot of responses to dig through. 294 people actually responded to this. So I went through and pulled some of the best ones.

We had a lot of people say like a high school principal. We did have some people say run a car dealer. which is funny that you said that. Las Vegas pit boss, mafia boss, an empire, a prison warden. We had a few people say

that you might be a funeral director or an undertaker, which is a lot of, dark and twisty. Mike Helton, attorney at law, the one that you call when you have a fender bender.

I can see that one. He'd be a Tom Selleck stand-in or possible Tom Selleck look-like contestant. That's not bad. Tom Sillik's a little guy, isn't he? I just, yeah, I feel bad for Tom Selleck.

A mustache model. We had a lot of those. Oh, man. Some interesting input there. Any of them close? Well, unfortunately, we don't have to worry about that. I guess we don't. No, no, you're right about that.

You're right. Before we get down the road, I wanted to ask you about the Gen 7 car. I don't know if that's really the name of it or not. I know there's a lot of the names being thrown around, but there's a lot of excitement, anticipation about this car. And obviously, everybody's got opinions on what this thing needs to accomplish. What are some of the most important things that it accomplishes on your side of the box, you know, on your side of the fence?

What are some of the things that are key to you? I think it's the key, there's a lot of things that's important about this car, but some of the key components is it being relative to the production car. Production car because how reliance on the OEM is very important. 100% agree with that. How close is the current model? How much further are we going to go with that? I mean, do we got a long way to go?

Are we close? I think we're close. When it comes to the skin of the chassis coming off and resembling Camaro. then we're close, but we could get better. We could get better on the sides. We could get better on the tail of the car. We can get closer to it. And I think that's one of the things.

The other part is to plan for the future now that we're building a new chassis from the ground up. And we did what's gen 5, but everybody refers to his car tomorrow. Some people don't like it. It served us well when we needed to be because those were tough years with the automobile manufacturers in

08 and 09. So it served its purpose. But this is not that car. This is a very well-thought-out chassis that could produce a lot of efficiencies in motorsports so that teams don't have to manufacture so many parts themselves and put race cars back together efficiently. but make room for what might happen next, not in the short term,

but if the automobile industry and the racing industry go down the road with some type of electrification, the chassis should have room for that. In the motor compartment, whatever evolution we go to in the next generation of power plants for the cars, transmissions,

paddle ships, whatever, we have the opportunity with a clean sheet of paper to build a chassis that can accommodate that easily without having to tear a car apart. So some flexibility. Wow. Flexibility, relevancy.

I got you. What we're seeing today with the current package of the car, the less horsepower than we had the year before, more down force, is this all sort of a test and tune process? This, the new model car is coming in two, three years. Is this a bit of a learning process of eventually what we want out of that Gen Gen 7 car with power and downforce aerodynamics and so forth, is I think a lot of people,

a lot of fans maybe don't see the connection between what we're doing today with our cars and that new car coming down the road. Is that what you guys are doing is trying to connect the dots to get to where y'all want to be from a down force and power standpoint in this new car? Yes. And that's a soft yes, because what Steve and his group have come up with that we're racing with in 2019 is horsepower and aerodynamic that we could accomplish quickly on the current vehicle. And so the idea was to take that to where the future vehicle would be similar. Yeah.

But see what this, before we made the commitment, see what this package would be like. A lot around the 550 horsepower is in conversations with the engine builders and the automobile manufacturers is most of their performance vehicles are 550 horsepower vehicles. The architecture in our industry today is way more efficient at 550 horsepower than it is at 750 horsepower than it is at 750. 50 horsepower. I know. I get the fact, and I'm a NASCAR fan first and foremost, that why can't it be a thousand horsepower? Why can't motorsports be an uncontrolled number of horsepower? And it could, but it will put too big of an economic burden on the sport to go down that road. So this is one of the things that NASCAR has to make decisions on is to we have to have relevant packages that are the, best efficiencies we can have in our sport so that individuals that want to be a team owner

can afford to be a team owner. And that's tough right now. But a lot of these steps that we're taking gets us closer to that line where people can be team owners in our sport, whether it's in a truck series, Expendity, ARCA, K&N, or Cup. And a lot of these decisions that we're making, and particularly that go into the Gen 7, are economic decisions that that, that, that, that, that Marshall Carlson will be sure that there's still a Hendrick Motorsports. The Dillans will be sure there's an RCR. Yeah, I think the, the big difference, the big changes that we've had from last year to this year with the car between the downforce and the power were much easier for me to accept and

and be on board with knowing there was an objective with the Gen 7 car, knowing that this was all to be able to produce a better car a couple years from now, a new version that we will all be happy about. And we had to learn these things. We had to do these things to get there. And so I'm glad to hear that that's the case. Getting back to Dad real quick, there's one thing that I wanted to talk to you about. It's a bit of a difficult subject to discuss, but,

typically when people come on this show and they have any kind of connection such as you do with my dad and the day we lost dad, we've never sat down and really went through that. We're not going to do that right now. That's for us to do another day. But a lot of the world and industry fans alike were introduced to Mike Hilton the day you had to get up on that podium and deliver that news that we had lost dad.

If you can, tell me when you have that information, y'all are great friends. Did you realize, I guess, in that moment, what you had to do, what you were about to do? And, I mean, obviously, I imagine that might have been the hardest thing you've ever had to do. Can you kind of help me understand, I guess, what you went through to go through that process and even maybe what the hours were like after that, what all that, you know, I think you might have been living in Daytona at the time.

So it wasn't like you had to get up and go home like we did or the rest of the industry. You drove down the road to the house at some point in the day, but you got to go up there and deliver that news. How did you do that? I mean, to me, to me, that was the toughest thing to do for anyone that whole day. was to go up there and tell everyone what had happened. I don't know how you did it, and how did you? Not sure how I did it, but the sequence of events got us to the point where, okay,

we, you know, a lot of folks had already assumed what had happened, but we had to authenticate it by making an announcement. So we're back from the hospital into the garage area there, and Bill Jr., if you remember, going through cancer, and so he was on his toes, sort of speak, but he didn't have the energy that he didn't want to do it. And Brian and Paul Brooks and myself and Bill Jr. And others were sitting and saying, you know,

we've got to go make the announcement. And so Bill just kind of pointed to me and said, you go do it. And I said, well, what do I say? I said, well, you know, we just lost the greatest driver we've ever had. What am I supposed to say? And I think it was Brian or Paul Brooks both at the same time, stepped him and said, just say that.

You know, just say we lost him. And I still think that the realness of all that hadn't. sunk in. I still thought that there was part of me that thought, well, I'm going to wake up here before I have to go do this. And I never got the chance to wake up. I just had to go do it. And walked in and said what I said. And I don't know that it was scripted or it just came out the way it came out. And then, you know, we went from there and did the best we could to figure out what next. Yeah, do you remember the rest of the day? Yeah.

So at the hospital, Teresa and Taylor were staying on the boat, the intimidator down at the chart house. And so when we knew the final results of things, then I told Richard and Judy, and I told Teresa, I said, if you don't want to stay on the boat, you can come stay with me and Linda. Because your dad had stayed down there during the 24-hour race. Yeah. And she'd call her up, and so she knew that connection anyway. So we sent a car with her and Taylor down to the boat, and then they went to the house.

And I had, I left my car at the racetrack, and there was two other people with me. I think it might have been Michael and Richard. Maybe it wasn't Richard. I think Richard and Judy came in a little bit literal. So we all kind of just gathered at my house that afternoon. Taylor and Teresa stayed overnight. Somebody else did too, but I can't remember exactly.

It wasn't Michael and Elizabeth or Richard and Judy, but we kind of operated out there. And it just all kind of flowed. There wasn't any plan or design or anything. That evening just kind of unfolded because obviously there was a lot moving every step of the way. And staying close to Teresa and Taylor was important in Richard and Judy. And I remember we got to the house and I got a phone call from the track security guy. And he said, do you know,

where Teresa Earnhardt is. I said, yeah, she's here with me. Why? The president of the United States wants to call her. And that was George Bush. Yeah. And so he ended up calling the house and talking to Teresa that night. And there's the strange little things that you kind of remember.

And I'll never get into all the other details that I remember. But we didn't sleep much. And you guys didn't sleep much at night. and it was... I don't remember nothing about it. After leaving the hospital, I remember going to the bus and talking to Tony Senior and Tony Jr.

And I don't remember nothing after that. I don't remember how we got home or what I did that night or where I was at. Did you... I mean, you're... For me, I had to, you know, I had a lot of emotions about going back to the racetrack and Rockingham was the next race.

We had a great win with a... Steve Park and it was a interesting, very emotional, positive day with the pre-race. Everybody was walking around with their three hats on. What was your emotions, I guess, going forward? Like, you know, in the industry, I mean, you guys had to have a plan for the sport and had to make decisions for the sport and the betterment of the sport. But personally, did you have doubts about your future? Did you think, man, what are we going to do?

Did you have doubts about the future of the sport? I mean, how did you guys as an industry pull the pieces together going forward? Yeah, and I don't know that, you know, Bill was sick, and I worried a lot about him because of his relationship with your dad. but the mechanics of it all, you know, between Daytona and Rocky NAM, the service, and it, from an industry perspective, and personally, too, I thought it was almost kind of a relief to go back to the racetrack. Yeah. It didn't feel right, and that may not be exactly what you wanted to do, but there was some relief to getting back. It was like putting the pieces back together and keeping going, but at the same time, being, very understanding of what happened.

And I don't think I ever worried about the future of the sport. And I never questioned my job in the sport at that point. I think we were more focused on finding an answer to how these things happened, you know, because if you remember in 2000, it was Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin and Tony Roper in very similar situations. And so we had a series of things going on, which is what established the R&D Center over here at Concord Regional Airport is a focused effort on finding out why this is happening in our sport and stop it. And then we were working with Tony George in the Indianapolis Group and building the safer barriers. And we were in the middle of developing all of those things. And so while we were finding the answer,

because the world wanted to say, hey, what happened here? Yeah. We lost one of the greatest drivers in the history of motorsports. So what? What the heck did you happen? So we had an obligation to figure that out.

We had to go through that. And that took us to August, I think it was, before we were able to get in front of everybody and say, here's what we found. And we used experts from all over the world to get those answers. And in the meantime, it was, how do we stop this from happening again?

You know, we can't go back and we don't have a time machine. So the best tribute is to be sure it doesn't happen again. And so we turned the WIC way up and everybody in the world wanted to play a role in it. That was the most concerted effort around making race cars safer that ever happened and still exists today because of that. And when I think about that, that day, I always land on the fact that, that, you know, hopefully we've done good from that. Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's saved countless lives with the innovation and the safety that we have in our cars today. You talk about Terry Labani, being a man in a few words, I've probably had about 30 total with Terry LeBani, and I would say about 75% of those are about safety and what I had in my car and what he thought I should change. And all that, I think the whole sport was in a mode of trying to improve and trying to be better and sort of eliminate those issues. Well, I wanted to, you know, that, to me, that, I know that you would not want that to be a defining moment in your life, but it is.

It was you going up there to that podium to deliver that news. I can't think of anyone else that I would have wanted to do that. And, you know, you've always protected that. Our family, you always protected me as a friend. You're a friend of many people in the garage, many drivers. And, you know, we appreciate you and appreciate everything you've done. I know you're going to be around for a long time and be a big part of the sport. you're around longer than I ever thought you'd be.

That's for sure. But I appreciate you coming on the show. And I hope you enjoyed it. I did. It's fun to be here. Thank you. Yes, sir. And I hope you'll come back.

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