The Dale Jr. Download - Carl Edwards on Returning, Reconciling, and Why He Retired in the First Place

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr. welcomes the highly requested Carl Edwards on the show to discuss why he retired after 2016, settling old scores between the two of them, his new job at Prime Sports, and much more. After nine seasons without Carl behind the wheel, he opens up to Dale about the true reasons behind his departure, and how he knew it in his soul it was his time to leave. Dale learns about Carl’s introduction to motorsports, and what advice Carl’s cousin Ken Schrader gave him upon signing his first contract with Roush. Later, Dale Jr. and Edwards look back at their rocky relationship with each other as drivers, where Edwards reveals the text message from Dale that pissed him off the most. Carl reflects on his 2011 Championship run that famously ended in a tie-breaker against Tony Stewart, and the back-and-forth war of words in the media that happened before our very eyes. Carl reflects on his time at Roush Fenway Racing & Joe Gibbs Racing, and shares what kind of teammate he really was behind closed doors. Finally, Carl opens up about why he suddenly walked away from the sport following 2016’s Championship race, and how he has managed his retirement from the sport. The two also talk about what Carl has been up to these days, which includes stories of reconnected family time, to sailing through Europe without a cellphone. One of the most anticipated guests is finally here, and it was well worth the wait. Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Door Bumper Clear merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Let's talk about homestead. This is a tough one for you, I'm sure. Yeah. So what I'm sitting here thinking about, my hands are sweating when you're saying all this because I don't know how honest I want to be about all this, but I think I'm just going to tell you how it is. So there's a couple things here, and there are really big deals to me to say. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media.

Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. it's the guest segment, and we've got Carl Edwards coming on the show. Y'all requested him. We've been begging him to come on, and we finally got it worked out. Carl's going to be a teammate of mine at Amazon as we're coming up on the five-race stretch during the summer, and he's getting himself ready for that job as a broadcaster, getting himself reintroduced to the NASCAR industry after years away.

We're going to learn what he's been up to. We're going to learn all about his career and why he stepped away to begin with. So I got a lot of questions there. This is going to be a good one I can tell. Let's get started. All right, so the Dale Jr. Download here on a Wednesday guest segment, and one of our most requested by far has been Carl Edwards,

and we are lucky to have the chance to have Carl here today. I want to say thank you, Carl, for giving us some time. Where are you at? I'm here in Columbia, Missouri at my buddy Brent's office. It's nice of him to loan me his setup. I hope it all works the whole time. So, yeah, thanks for having me on. This is so cool, man.

Man, it's been awesome to see you here over the past couple of years. You've kind of reemerged and reconnected in a sense with the industry. And it's been good to sort of see what you've been up to. And I want to learn a little bit today. There's a lot that I have to get into. And I guess one of the things that I'd like to. like to ask you off the top is what's the biggest misconception about what you've been up to since you left the sport man um i don't i don't know i i guess um i'd have to know what how people

really see it before i could address it um what do you think what do you i mean help me then did you do you i'm going to ask you a couple questions yeah go for it do you have a bunker No, I don't have a bunker. Do you, do you, all right, I see where you're getting here. Do you do any long, do you do any prepping? I don't think, I don't think an inordinate amount. I mean, I do have groceries in my cupboard, but, um,

okay, so that's the last question. But yeah, I'm not, uh, and by the way, if I were, I would never tell anybody. So, you know, that's the first rule. Do you have a five gallon bucket of dry food on a shelf that has a shelf life of 25 years? have one of those one of those i do too it's not it's not going to get me far but i think a lot of us got those around 2020 i yeah i think a lot of people

you know really were i guess you know probably number one surprised by your sudden decision uh to leave the sport and then mix that with your intense privacy. Yeah. And so that, you know, it only left everyone to kind of assume, like, well, what's,

what's going on with this guy? And I've learned that you learned how to sail. Yeah. Like, did you know anything about sailing before you retired from racing? No. And I still don't know much about sailing. I left racing, and we can talk more about that to whatever degree. you want. But I fell in love with this idea of the ocean. I don't know where that came from,

but I mean, I grew up in central Missouri. I didn't see the ocean until I was maybe 21. And so we had all this free time. And I was like, all right, Kate, we're going to learn to sail. And she said, fine. So we went to this sailing school. And I'm serious, the first lunch break, we went up to the hotel room and we almost got divorced. It was the biggest argument ever. because I was like, this is my dream. We got the time. Let's go on a boat. She said, this is crazy.

I hate it. The boats leaned over. It's awful. And so Kate led us buy a motorboat that was safer because there wasn't sailing involved and I didn't know anything about it. And so we bought this boat over in Europe. And my son and me and two guys, we came across the Atlantic. It was one of the most amazing.

You bought the boat in Europe? Yes, yeah. You scoured the earth for this specific style of boat? Right, because Kate said, look, we can't you can't kill the family here right she said i get it you got this crazy idea but she said i'm gonna we're gonna be somewhat comfortable and we're not gonna die so if you can take care of that then then we'll do it and so turned out i'm i'm decent with engines i thought all right sailboats not the thing but i know how to at least work on an engine and so we bought a steve dashu design

boats like the jeep wrangler of boats right it's a is it is it a catamaran or what type of bow and This is a, they called a trawler. So it's all aluminum, you know, looks like a sailboat without a mast. It's got hydraulic stabilizers. Real safe, real simple. There was the best one was over on an island called Guernsey in the English Channel, flew over there, looked at it, said, Kate, what do you think? She said, fine. And I think she was thinking this wasn't actually going to go through. Like, you know, it was just this crazy idea. So, but we went ahead and bought it. And then the coolest part is you got to get it back here. And so. And so. So one of the neatest things in my life. I was going to go over with these two guys I'd never met that became great friends. And it was just going to be three of us. And my son, you know, you met Mike. He kept saying, Dad, this is so neat. I'm so excited about the boat.

I mean, he's a young man. He's just thinking, this is going to be so cool. But I was like, man, do you think I could take Mike? Kate was like, you're crazy. You're going to get on a boat. You're going to go across. I said, I don't know. Like, this would be really cool, I think.

And fortunately the captain He's a wild man. I didn't know this at the time, but he's like every racer that that we knew growing up just though a guy ran away from home He's a boat captain travels the earth But I didn't know that I thought he's this like real professional guy and so we asked him Kate said if he says it's good Mikey can go and and so we flew over there got on this boat First day It was after like 30 hours of travel and And get there.

Oh, it was 30 hours of traveled there. Yeah, just to get there, right? Because to get to the island of Guernsey took a bit. So I got a six or seven-year-old. I think Mike was six. But he's pumped. And so we're traveling. You know, we're on airplane, airplane, airplane, bus, whatever, we get to this boat.

And I'm like, man, I got to do a workout. So I go out on the dock and I'm like, I'm going to just do some burpees or something. I've been sitting for two days. And first thing, my phone falls out. falls through the cracks in the dock into the ocean. I was like, oh, I was like, damn, that's my connection to all, everything's going on in my life.

And my son looks at me and goes, oh, this is great. And I was like, man, that's sarcasm. Where do, he's not sarcastic. Why would you say that? And he said, well, dad, maybe now you'll spend some time with me. I was like, damn. And so that was the start right there for the next 30 days of,

of time completely alone with him, with these two guys. we went from the English Channel, coast of Spain, down to Madiera, some islands, and then across the whole Atlantic. It was one of the coolest experiences in my life. And so from there, we took that same boat. We traveled around Bahamas. We went back across to Europe the next year. And just you by yourself, or did you have some help sort of? So my question is, I would love to do this. but my, well, listen, like my fear is not knowing how to navigate, right? And not knowing, even like into, not so much, you know, being able to get from point A to B,

but like navigating ports, knowing the etiquette, knowing where to put the boat, how to take the boat. There's, you know, you can sail out into the harbor here at Charleston where we have this beach house. and there's all kinds of treacherous sandbars and all kinds. You got to know the lay of the land. So how did you figure all that out? You just go. Just go do it. And there's so many helpful people.

And what I've learned. And so to fast forward, we had that motorboat. We did all sorts of stuff. And I realized that all the stuff I love about being out on the boat with, because it's an adventure. All those things you just said, they're hard to do. And you've got to figure them out. So there's a real challenge.

There's an adventure. You meet the most interesting people. It's just like the racing world. It's all the people who aren't normal. They're all the people who want something different, who want to go do their own thing. Yeah. And then there's just this wonder of the environment, you know.

I didn't grow up in the ocean. So to answer your question, yeah, I don't know any of that stuff. We just kind of started going. And you're only moving 10 miles an hour. You can stop most anywhere you want. and it's just turned into this passion. So now we're just about finished with a sailboat. This will be our second boat.

And our next adventure, we're going to try to go do all this over again with a sail because it's truly magic. And if you're interested in it, I mean, go with me anytime. It's so much fun. How soon did you go alone? Like how, I know not,

you might have had your fan, but how soon did you ditch the captain and, Pretty quickly, we went, we went to the Bahamas. After we got back to the United States, we as a family went over to the Bahamas and poked around. And there were a couple like real close calls where, you know, I didn't understand what I was doing. First Anchorage we went into, I was looking at the depth sounder and it was saying like one meter, point nine meters, point eight. And it got to zero. I was like, yeah, thing must not be calibrated because if I was at zero and then boom, we'd bump the rocks on the bottom.

It's like, oh my gosh, it is calibrated. And so a guy came and saved us, Brian Bosley. He saw what was happening, and he guided me through the reef. And he was actually at the Hall of Fame event, sitting a couple tables away from you. Oh, yeah. But yeah, you just, it's so special. It's like a really, it's a huge part of my life right now. And I'm so excited to get to go do more of it.

Yeah, so I guess that's the new challenge for you is you've got this. thing that you love to do, but you're going to have to part it out with other responsibilities as you dive back into the motorsports side of it. Your connection to motorsports, you're the first cousin once removed of Kenny Schrader. Yes. Yeah. Fortunately. You hung out at his shop when you were young. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to convince him to give you an opportunity. And that is how I guess we could jump right into this story. That's how I met your dad, which was a hell of a thing. And I wonder if you'll remember this story the way I do.

We've been racing. This is toward the end of both of our careers. And I don't know that we really each knew it at the time, but I was being a bit of an to you on the text message. Oh, I'd forgotten about that, yeah. Yeah. We were racing at Charlotte in the playoffs, and I was doing everything I could to keep you behind me,

and I'm kind of reading off of my notes here. And I was air-blocking you a lot, and finally we get down into turn one, and you just put the bumper to me. And I ended up getting up in the fence, and my day spiraled, and I hit the wall a few more times before the race was over with,

and I was pretty mad about it. And I ended up not advancing deep into the playoffs that year, but you were in the thick of the playoffs, battle as we get to Phoenix rain came past halfway and cut the race short oh man I've forgotten all this yes I coincidentally would steal a wind from Harvick because I cycled in front of him during a pit cycle you would be eliminated from the championship that night you were standing on pit road like come on it's Phoenix let's get this race going this rain's not going to last forever it's Phoenix everybody

where are y'all going why are we leaving we all we went home maybe a day or two later, we were all texting in the driver's group text, and I said that I was glad that you were eliminated because of how I felt you'd fenced me at Charlotte a few weeks earlier, and I was really rude and obnoxious. Fast forward to the next or the last weekend of the season at Homestead, and I see you at the driver's meeting. Me and you had coincidentally arrived a bit early, and I saw you, and I thought, I'm going to go have a chat and try to see if we can have a truce. And I think you were into that as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I sat down and right before we even got to start our conversation, you said, hey, I want you to meet my dad. And I had never met him in

my life. And I said, oh, nice to meet you. And he goes, we've met before. And I said, we have. And he said, yeah. He said, there's this story that I've told many times about the week that I spent with in Schrader when I was 15 years old or 16 years old. I went dirt racing with him, had to blast, drank a lot of beer, looked at a lot of Playboy magazines, and we were at this one strip club, and they wouldn't let me in. So I sat in the back of the pickup truck while Schrader and everybody went inside to the strip club, and one of the guys that was with us said, hey, I'll sit out here with you. don't want you to be by yourself.

You know, don't know the neighborhood really that well. I'll sit here. And I sat in the back of this pickup truck and drank beer with this guy. And I'm a kid back then, and this guy was probably our age today. That was your dad. And I didn't know that. We're sitting there at homestead at a driver's meeting. He's like, that was me.

And you know what? It was neat. Is all that bull-s and frustration about the racing and bumping and being text messages and all that stuff, just washed away. Yeah. Because the, I guess it was kind of like this unique situation where it was kind of, it was all put into perspective,

like what's really important. And I don't know how you felt about that, but I will never forget that sort of circumstantial sort of way that we would kind of come together there homestead and get to the end of that. How do you remember all that? I'm glad that you told that story. Because you forget all the details of those things.

And I didn't put them all together that way. You know, I remembered, you know, for me that I remember it all in different compartments. I remember Phoenix. You know, I remember Phoenix thinking, I mean, we got to finish this race. This is everything right now. This is the most important thing in the way. world. I remember going home and I remember that night with that text message because I don't know what was I was just having a great night. Kate and I were doing great. I remember we were watching

Game of Thrones at this time. So we're watching Game of Thrones every night. I remember I had like a glass of wine which I don't ever drink wine and I'm like man I'm having the best night of my life and the phone starts a dingin and I look up and I'm like damn Dale that is some harsh stuff. I remember you said something like there's nothing better there's nothing made me happier seeing Carl standing there with that umbrella no one or something like that is poetically mean as hell like that was good damn it and i remember i just i didn't know what to say so i just said something like f you dale or something like that and i put the phone down and i was like i can't wait to see that guy next time i was pissed and um yeah and and and and but i don't i didn't

remember i'd separated it because i remember that moment in the driver's meeting uh And how cool it was for my dad to connect with you that way. And I had, in my memory, I'd forgotten that all those things were, I guess, connected or something. But so cool. It warms my heart to think that that's special to you. You know, because especially now, at our age now, you kind of see this arc, you know, I do, of life and all these things. And, you know, now I see it like God puts all these things together. at the right time and and yeah you know when my dad was sitting in the back of the pickup truck with

you you know i was at that age where i wanted to race more than anything and i'd hear these stories about dad going with schrader and i remember him talking about little dale you know and i i couldn't you know you were just you're you're you're a person and and to come full circle but to know you as a racer and and a man and a father and for now to us to be able to talk about this it's it's just crazy to think of this arc, you know, and yeah, that's cool. You know, the one thing that I think about is when I realized that that was your dad, because I had raced you my whole career, not knowing that I knew your dad, not knowing that he had been the great, cool-ass person in the moment that said,

I'll sit with you out here. I won't go in where all the other guys are going. Everybody's so fired up and excited to go. I'm going to not do that and sit with you. you. That was such a nice thing. I'm so frustrated is not the right word, but I wish I would have known that was your dad while we race. Like, how would our, how might our relationship been different from the beginning of your racing career all through all those years in cup we raced together? And I had no clue that I had that experience with your, it would have

really, I think, created a bond between us that might have completely changed the way we interacted in our careers. I agree with that. And I can't believe you're bringing this up today. You know, I just had this conversation with this group of men this week. I went down to Austin. I've been just blessed to be around some really great men the last couple of years who've helped me get some perspective. And I think the question you just asked is, something now that I'm asking myself all the time it's what are people's stories you know and you do a good job of this you tell people's stories so that we can understand where people are coming from and and you know I think I might have told you one time kind of how I used to see you

know when I when I first understood who you were you were the silver spoon you got everything you got the famous name you got you were everything I wished I had and And I didn't understand you as a person. And then, and I think for me, and I was wrong. And so for me, how many people am I going through my life that I could, that I could understand them, I could have a bond with them, I could have a relationship with them, but I don't take the time. And I think that's a mistake.

I tried to talk about that a little bit at the Hall of Fame. I didn't take the time to understand who you are, you know, how we, you know, share these common experiences, how we appreciate the same things maybe. And I think that that's a shame. And so now it's like I can't catch up quick enough trying to be a little more graceful, to try to be a little more curious about other people and their stories. I'm glad that you're kind of going in this bit of, you know, you're having this sort of realization. Yeah. And I think that's a great, it's a great, the fortunate thing for any of us to be. to be sort of faced with that.

Well, I was going to add something before we move on from it. Maybe you were, but I just want to say that you're giving me a gift today, you know, and it's to see my dad as my age saying, hey, I'll sit out in that truck, because I know my dad loves hanging out with the guys as much as anybody. So for you to give me that gift to tell me about my father, you know, putting you under his wing. It lets me see my dad in the way that I should have been seeing him for a long time. And it's really helpful to me. So thank you for that. Yeah. Hey, my pleasure, man. We must have set out there. It might have been 15 minutes. It felt like two hours. Yeah.

And we had a blast. And we sat in the bed of this truck and watched all these weird, you know, random happenings that happened in the parking lot of a strip club, right? I don't know, a couple of guys looking in the back of a Lincoln, you know, trunk of a Lincoln, who knows what was going on over there. But, you know, I felt completely safe. And I was very thankful for that. And I didn't want to ruin Schrader and his guys and what they were trying to do, right?

And so your dad kind of saved everything right there in that moment. I sat down the other night, and I just sort of had this brain. dump where I just put all these notes down on this on this pad and I've got another sheet in front of me that my team helps me put together that kind of is a little more chronological but I really was wondering about just kind of going through this the way my brain do it's notes it's so cool I don't it's neat that you put so much effort into this and I asked my wife today I said hey what should I do on this podcast she said just let Dale just lead you along let let him you know just

answer his question she's like he's good at this and I was like man he He really is. I'm thankful for the compliment. There's a lot to you that I think a lot of people are curious about, and we all have our own assumptions. And I wanted to kind of dive into the, I just wanted to say this. You had some of the most ridiculously close losses in NASCAR history in terms of winning championships.

And I know you mentioned some things about this in your post race. I think about the tie I was Stuart. And I have often wondered how anybody could walk away from a year-long quest, knowing how you are as a driver and how hard you prepared, how hard you worked, you gave. when it comes to giving 110%

I don't know that anyone did it any better than you you prepared and lived ate breathe

racing every minute of the day when you were in that cup career and to do all of that you have you did it as good as you could do it

and you tied and you had to sort of accept these completely abnormal circumstances. This is not a common occurrence. That one alone, I have to wonder how you process that. Okay, there's a couple parts to that.

So the first part is that I found a journal that I started, in maybe 2000 or something. And there's an entry I made, you know, and I was running at my local dirt track. I was just, I mean, just hard as I could go trying to get people to hire me to drive race cars. I mean, if you had a race car, I had been calling you and talking to you. I was asking everybody in the world.

And I was so fortunate to realize. I wrote in this journal, as I realized that my happiness, like truly, like whether I wake up in the morning happy or really, upset is 100% based on whether racing's going well or not. And I realized I had to be careful because I was completely building my life. It was live or die. Like if I win, I'm good. If I lose, I die. I mean, that's how I saw. It was so powerful. And so throughout my career, I was always battling that. And I think that's why you saw a lot of, you know, what I would call bad behavior out of me because I could not accept not achieving. It was a really, it was just very

hard for me. And so very fortunately, I kind of realized, you know, like all of us have to do in this game, you're going to lose a lot. Things are not going to go your way. And so I started really basing my self-worth, my happiness, my contentment on on performance. And now I was, it was almost like a mantra I had to say to myself like look I'm gonna so some days later in my career I get out I'd run 12 you know the feeling you're like nobody in the world could have run 12 with that car that was a 20th place car and I feel good but nobody's clapping but like I could feel good and then there's some days you win the race you're like anybody could have won with that car and so I had to be careful so I tried to recalibrate and that that race with Tony came at a time where I felt like I had

I had started to kind of master that approach of just giving 100% and not letting the outcome be everything. And so that really tested that theory, though, because that race, that whole thing with Tony, you know, I read Tony's book, you know, before I got in the Cup series. You know, I studied Tony Stewart. He's the guy that I watched a lot of the tape and all. that. And so to get to race him was fun. But when we got to that, the five or six races ago, and it was clear he was coming. And Tony went full offense in the media. And I was at this point

in my life where I was just trying to do a better job. I was trying to be able to go to bed at night and truly be me, right? Because not to go too far off, but I don't know if you remember that meeting we had in the trailer at Michigan after we got into it once. And you look straight at me. And you said, hey, man, I just want you to know, I think this nice guy thing is a facade. And I thought, first of all, exactly what is a facade? Okay, I think I know what that means. And damn, what if he's right? And so I had been thinking about that for a while.

And so, you know, something I'd been working on for myself is trying to really just be me, period, do things the way I wanted to do them and not try to put on a show. And once Tony started that, man, I wanted so bad. to say things and do things, but I talk to Kate about it. She's like the little angel on my shoulder. She's the most amazing person. And I said, man, I'm just going to, I'm going to do this the way I want to do it. I want to not say anything negative to Tony. I want to beat him, be the champion, shake his hand afterwards, and that's that.

That's what I won. It's so bad. I wanted to show that I could do it that way. And so it was really hard for me. And yeah, and Tony was awesome. He made it way more interesting. And he even grabbed me one time after one of the press conferences. He's like, dude, you know I'm messing around with you.

I know, dude. I know you are. I know. But then we got down to that final race. And yeah, it didn't go at all the way I wanted. But it was so much fun. I mean, to be able to race like that and everything's on the line and to race against Tony Stewart that way.

and that race, I don't know, you'd go back and watch it, but Darien Grub and him took the only gamble they had, which was to short pit us. I remember asking Bob, I was like, why are they pitting? And he's like, don't worry about it. And because the rain wasn't going to hit us, but it did. It just hit enough.

And they ran the caution laps just enough that he could just make it to the end. And, oh, he got us. So I told Kate the next day, we went down to Miami for the, I think it was for the, the Xfinity or nationwide banquet. And it was the next day.

And I said, man, that's upsetting. Like, I'm really upset or I was, but I actually feel okay. I feel like we did our, we did it. We performed. We did a darn good job. And it didn't turn out our way. And if I got to, if I'm going to be what I want to be, I got to say that my performance was good and I got to move on.

And so, yeah, that was a real test for me. You brought up the Michigan meeting in the hall or was that the next. nationwide. So I don't remember getting called to the hauler. But so I do, I wanted to, I was going to ask about that, Michigan Nationwide Way. So I don't remember the year. I think it was 05 or 06. You're leading, you're leading the race.

As far as I remember, you pretty much had good control of the race. The junior motorsports team, my team has a car in the field and Robbie Gordon's driving it. We were kind of between drivers. and Robbie's having a great day and I was driving for DEI and Tony Sr. And I was doing okay back there as well. I can't remember exactly who led or who was doing, who should have won the race.

Do you remember? I remember, all I remember was it was off a turn two. Yeah. And it was one of those like, you push me. I thought, oh, he's just going to touch me. I was like, no, he's sending me. And it was, and I remember thinking, Like, damn, that was serious.

Yeah. And in my mind, I don't remember how it exactly went, but I remember coming to pit road, tore up car, you won the race. And I was like, put some tires on it. And they're like, don't you dare do it? And I said, just put some tires on it. And I went out there and I ran India. And I remember that it was ugly.

And I think I went to Victory Lane and, you know, said, I just being mad. Really pissed. Yeah. You actually had pretty good self-control in Victory Lane. if I have to give you that. I have to give you that. It doesn't feel like. Felt a little out of control.

And then, but I think you very well, you said something like when you came up in front of me, I had to think, would this guy lift for me? And in fact, at Atlanta, which I believe might have been your best shot for a championship, at least up to that point. Oh, yeah. I was behind you. You came up. remember making a decision and I regret it.

I made decision that screw it. He's coming up and I'm going to stay right here and I'm going to let him suffer his consequences. And looking back, that was really, really, that wasn't giving you one inch and I shouldn't have done that. And you said, I asked myself if this guy would do it for me and in fact, he would not. And so that was that. And I thought, damn. Oh, man.

I never, I don't know if I ever personally connected the two that now that you bring it up. Oh, you did. straight to my face. Oh my God. Yeah. Like I don't, there's a lot about that either. I don't remember. I remember coming off to and we were all like at, we were all like given 11 tents.

Like we're all just driving a shit out of our cars. And I wrecked you. I got in the back of you and pushed you and I could have turned you loose. I didn't. Yeah. Who knows how it might have ended up. 88 might win. Junior Motorsport gets its first win.

You could have won. I don't think I would have won the race otherwise. And it was just an ugly deal all the way around for me and you. And I didn't do myself any favors. But it wasn't a race that I absolutely had to win. It wasn't like it was a situation where we were getting eliminated in the playoffs or anything. But I don't remember getting called to the holler. I thought it was that week.

I thought they called us to the holler the next morning. Oh, wow. Well, it's probably because I went out there like a crazy person and ran into the after the race was over. But yeah, I remember that conversation pretty well. You said a couple things to me. You know, one being the facade thing earlier. But yeah, it really, I guess at that point in my career, I was 100% take.

I was about 1% give, if any. And so, I mean, that's just, yeah, that was interesting, for sure. I thought, I do remember at some point later that weekend, you came up to me in the bus lot and said, hey, I won't apologize for coming into Victory Lane. I didn't remember that. Yeah. You were like, hey, look, a lot of things went down that I don't like. But there are some things that I did that I'm not proud of.

I want to let you know that I'm not happy about doing those things. And so I do want to folks to know that you did that and you had, you know, there was some self-awareness for sure. Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel? Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com. We're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a T-shirt.

Again, check it out at shop.dirtymodea.com. I got to ask you about the the Kenseth flinch on Pitt Road at Martinsville. What was going on that had you two so frustrated with each other? It's sad because I don't even remember. You know, it's one of those things. It's like when you're arguing with somebody

and you can't remember even what you were arguing about. But in my mind, I felt like Matt had just not given, not given, not given. I look back and I mean, I tried to say it at the Hall of Fame. I came to Roush racing with the greatest group of drivers. I mean, you could not have a better group of drivers to teach you how to cup race. You know, I stepped into the 99 car after Jeff Burton and those guys had built that team. I mean, I got given everything on a silver platter.

and I didn't take the time to appreciate it. I just went straight to this is what I deserve, and we're going to go get more of it. And so Matt is an extremely, I mean, you know Matt as well as anybody. He is so smart. He's so wise. And he doesn't mince any words. He doesn't cut any slack.

He's going to give you exactly what you give. And so he knew how to push my buttons right to the edge. He was, I mean, like a black belt at screwing with me. Okay. Really? Oh, he was good. don't remember all the things that he did, but he didn't do anything over the line. He just got me boiling inside. And after that race, I guess it was in Martinsville. I remember walking in the

hauler. Bob Osborne's going to kill me for saying this. But I was so pissed. I was like, freaking Matt again. I don't know what he did or didn't do, but I was mad. And I said, damn, I don't know what to do. And Bob said, I'd punch him in the face. And I thought, Oh, that's a great idea. And so I walked down and I, and sure enough, you know, there it is. You know, the Lord puts Matt right there where I'm going to hop over the wall and he's doing an interview and I thought, now's a good time and I thought I'm going to punch him in the face.

And then I was so stupid. And then I realized like, I don't really want to punch this guy in the face. That's dumb. And it was awful. And so I walked away from that and it was. Imagine if the social media had been around back then. That was a viral moment that was. It was so...

It never got the chance to go viral. So stupid. Bob Osborne's like, hey, man, I was joking around. That was the dumbest thing you could have done. He's like, what are you doing? He's like, Matt, your teammate. You're an idiot.

And so, yeah, Matt is so, so amazing. He brushed that off. He showed me so much grace. Man, what a guy. And so that was a lesson for me. I remember one of my sponsors from Office Depot called and said, like the biggest like insecure bully jerk ever like do not act that way I was like oh my gosh

yeah that was my goodness and so yeah it was it was ugly and I felt I felt I'm embarrassed about that that was bad well oh come on man we all we all have those moments it's the heat of the moment god day I don't think anybody's gonna be that hard on you about it well then you harder on your heart too harder on his shelf about it all right what were uh Who was your favorite teammate in your career? Hmm. That's a tough one. I was, it's hard for me to, because I felt, I was at different stages, but when I came in, you know, Mark Martin as a teammate was mind, mind-boggling.

I mean, just that, you know, when he sat in a media and talked, it was like I was listening to like, I mean, like, the man, like God, you know, so. That was cool. He taught me some things for sure. And I think, though, as I went, I learned that teammates were not just about, you know, the talk and how you interacted, you know, personally. It was about what they're willing to give. And I learned. And I mean from like, you know how it is, like professional standpoint. Like who's going to share with you?

Who's going to help you? you know, which driver and crew chief is going to actually like, you know, understand your problems and tell you what they learned in testing or practice. And for me, they're, you know, Matt, solid all the time. I was a better driver. My car was always better because of Matt. When I went to Joe Gibbs racing, you know, it was, you know, Kyle, Denny, all those guys, they put the BS aside. And it was like, hey, we're going to make all these cars better. And, you know, that was huge. So I guess, you know, personally, like as friends, it's really hard to pick somebody.

But as an actual, you know, performance teammate trying to win races, man, I had so many good ones. I don't even, I couldn't select one. It was now looking back, I realized, like being a single car team or something, I mean, there's no way any of this success would have happened. Is it possible for you to point out any teammates that you had difficulty connecting with or ones that you just, you weren't able to ever really have a line of communication develop? That you maybe even, you wanted, you know, you wanted more or wanted the, you know, better relationship that just never materialized?

I'd say Denny, really. Denny's somebody that, Denny's so good. It blew my mind the things he could do in the car. And I always wanted to be, like, I wanted to talk to Denny more. I wanted to understand how he thought. And I mean, I just could never, I could never get Denny to, and I probably didn't try enough, but I wanted to know what goes through his mind. How is he so good at all these different types of racing all the time?

Because if you go to Martinsville, he's unbelievable. Super Speedway is unbelievable. Road courses, you know, the mile and a half. I see every, every skill set Denny had, and I watched him. He was always getting better. Like it was never, it was very interesting. So I wish I could, I wish I could pick Denny's brain. I would have more, you know.

That's, I think that if I was, if I was to have your experience, I'd probably say the same thing because I agree with you on Denny. I think he's incredible and extremely smart and talented, but he's not always that will. to share why he does certain things. I went to him as a broadcaster. He has this unique line that a lot of people have started to develop and mimic at Darlington entering turn one. He would enter turn one in the second groove. I remember this, yeah, yeah. And run the second groove on exit. And they don't do it quite as much now since they repaved it, but it was really awesome. And I was like, hey, I see you run this new line. No one else is doing it. it really. Tell me about it. And he refused, like to explain it to me, walk me through it

it because he didn't want anyone else to really start doing it. But he's very, and it's interesting now that he's doing these podcasts where he is having to explain himself more, right? Because he's not been the kind of guy that always really would want to explain the things he does and why he does him. I always, I wanted to talk to you about Roush. versus Gibbs and your experience at Rausch. My opinion from the outside looking in, having never stepped in the building, never really spent a ton of time around Jack

or been around the business at Rauch that much, the rumor or the perspective was that they underpaid, they would typically lock in a guy like yourself that was dying to become a race car driver into a long contract on very minimal pay from like, you know, okay,

you're going to race a truck, you're going to race Xfinity, if you get to cup, here's the plan, if everything works well. Yeah. And then, and you would end up, you know,

probably getting everything you wanted. Yep. But you would be gross, you would be underpaid and compared to other individuals in the sport at the same level. And, you know, they were smart. They were smart and savvy.

That was the reputation outside the building. What was the truth in your experience with Rauch? Thanks for asking this. That's interesting. It's not true for me at all. And so, well, okay, and it might have been. So here, let me tell you the rush. This is short version.

First contract they sent. I remember it was 82 pages. Okay. And so I'm sitting at Mike Mittler's shop. I've got the phone call. Change my life. And they say, hey, we want you to drive this truck. And I was like, oh, I'm in.

And then they sent an 82 page contract. And Jeff Smith, who's one of my good friends, he worked with me after he left Raus. and he helped me through some contracts. So Jeff Smith has probably done more deals in NASCAR than, you know, maybe anybody. I'm not sure. 82 pages. And I'm not an attorney, but my dad who was, you know, sitting in the truck at the strip club, he got bored working on cars.

He went back to law school. So my dad was an attorney at this time. And I said, dad, I got all these questions. And you know how these contracts are. I mean, it's things I never even, I didn't understand any of these, you know, what's forced major? And I don't even know. So I said, all right, Dad, I got all these questions.

And he said, I can explain all this, but we need to call Schrader, okay? Because he's lived this world. And so I set out this contract. I got all my questions, about, I don't know, 20 of them, let's say. And I got a time for Kenny. And he said, okay, fine, what do you got? I said, I got this contract. It's got 82 pages.

And I got a lot of questions. And I said, okay, okay, you got a minute? He's like, yeah. And I said, okay, first question. I'm like, paragraph three, two. He said, stop right there. He said, I think I can solve your problem. I said, okay.

And he said, how about you take that contract and then you take all the other ones you have that are going to pay you money to drive a race car? You just set them on the table. You just pick the one you think is best and sign it right now. I was like, the hell are you talking about it? He said, I only got one. He's like, I know, sign it right now. Don't even think about it.

So I sign this 82 page thing. Best advice ever. And so that kind of answers your question like, yes, I think when you start at Roush, I think they presented something that could be taken as, hey, this is a heck of a binding thing. But what happened for me is after a year, we ran the truck, we did well, we got the Super Chip sponsorship. We got to the point where, you know, Burton was stepping out of the 99. Things were going to change. And from that point on, Jack, Jeff Smith, oh, second year I drove for him, Jeff said, hey, I know it says in the contract you're going to make this.

we're going to add X amount. You're doing great. We're just adding money. I thought, that's crazy. Yeah. And then from then on, I'm telling you, if anything, I was overpaid, and if anything, they were more generous than they should. And I'm not, that's not blowing smoke.

It's unbelievable. And so I felt like Jack, definite, hard man. I mean, he's hard. Hard as nails. Help me. Could you dive into that a little bit? Because Jack, I want to say this. I want to celebrate Jack.

Yes. Incredible man, done a lot of amazing things in this sport, but I don't know him. Okay. I think I do, okay? And I'm, you know, we're bouncing around a bunch of things, but there's a current here, which is, for me, I was raised by a complex man, my dad, right? And if anything, my dad, when all else, you know, I don't know much about your dad, but he may be, maybe similar.

Like, we're going to get straight to the point. You're going to do the thing. That's what it is. And period. Like, we're going. And so it was pretty harsh, I'd say, in a number of ways. And I learned that that's fine. I could do fine in that environment.

And so when I got to Roush, I mean, Jack is hard. I mean, he would say it how it is. I mean, I remember I screwed up at Talladega one time, ruined everything. and he called me in for a meeting. I thought we were going to talk about how we get back on track. He called me into a meeting just to tell me, Carl, I don't think you understand how bad you screwed this up. He went down a list, right?

But for me, that was fine because Jack was there to win. He had grown up basically dirt floor poor, fought his way through every single thing, and that's who he is. He doesn't look at the world like, how are we going to feel good about where we're at? He says, hey, how are we going to fight to get where we want to go? And so I know it rubbed people the wrong way. I remember people at the shop, they'd be, you know, just griping and moaning about something.

And I thought, you guys, we're racing fast race cars and that paycheck comes every two weeks. I mean, we're perfect, like quit complaining. And so I think he'd just rub people the wrong way because how hardcore he is. Is that answering your question? Oh, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so I felt like at the end of the day, leaving Roush, for me, was as simple as we just, I mean, I've never really talked about this, but it's just that the cars, we couldn't get them to turn in the center of the corner. I mean, we just could not get the cars to do what we needed to do. And we did that for a long time. And I thought, you know, I just wanted to try something different. So then we moved to Gibbs.

What was the difference like in the culture? So a completely different culture. And it's interesting how two cultures that different can both be so successful. You know, Jack Rausch, like I said, fought clawed through not just a sport, but the actual technical aspects of it. So anybody who's been around Jack knows that he can build the shop, He can build the car. He can drive the car.

He can build the airplanes. He can fly the airplanes. He can tune the carburetor. He can build the pistons. I mean, he can take a camshaft out of a piece of metal. He can do anything. And that's how he's built. He's going to master every single piece.

And he had his hand in every single thing. And have you never seen Jack in a meeting screaming about lug nuts and stuff? I mean, it's awesome. This guy knows what's up. Then you moved to Joe Gibbs Racing. And it blew my mind. Completely different. I remember coach.

came to one of our first meetings and we're going around the table. He would come and sit. Everybody sits around drivers, engineers, crew chiefs. I can't remember if engineers were there. Definitely the head engineering guys at the shop. And he goes around and says like basically, you know, you, why didn't you win? You, why didn't you win? And then he'd just say, okay, cool, you didn't win because of this.

I don't know anything about that. I remember one time he said something like, I don't know anything about tires. I don't get it. I don't know. you tell me what I need to do so that you can make these tires work the way you need them to work. And so he gave up all the control and put it in the hands of others and then let them kind of run the ship. And he just facilitated it where Jack could really run everything himself. And he was like the central computer, the actual mechanical brain behind everything.

and totally different. You know, I was always thinking that when you went to Gibbs, this might help you understand how much I appreciated your, or respected your ability as a driver. When you went to Gibbs, I thought, holy, man, I just, I had such a mid-opinion of Roush at the time, and I thought that you were getting, so much more out of those cars than people realized. And when you were going to go get in the Gibbs car

and the way Kyle and those guys had been running, I thought, holy shit, you know, this is, this is going to be hard to beat. You know, you definitely had some, some high moments racing for Gibbs and some good success. You know, did the Gibbs experience, you know, go as well as you'd hoped, had, you know, are there, I know there's one particular moment I want to talk to you about in terms of homestead that I know that you knew would come up in this conversation, but excluding that night, you know, how do you look at your time with Joe Gibbs racing? It was, it was a big change. It was, it was, it was definitely a, a, uh, a, uh, definitely a, a, a, uh, a, uh, definitely a, a, a, a, a,

great experience for me. You know, back to Matt Kenseth and those guys. A lot of people don't know, you know, we talked about teammates earlier. A lot of people don't know that, you know, Gibbs and I had talked at points through my career. And there'd been some times where I'd really looked over there and he had recruited me real hard. And when we finally came up with the deal to do this, he said, hey, there's one last thing.

He said, I'm going to have a meeting with. the drivers because this is a big deal and you know the drivers are steering the ship here and if if they don't want you here then we're not going to do it and if they do um we are going to do it and you know we talked a little bit about my history of matt and i'd had some history with kyle and i thought oh my gosh please let these guys have some forgiveness in their hearts and it was a big deal that that coach said you wouldn't believe it he said matt said absolutely you know car will be a good addition here. And that, that right there, I don't know if I ever told Matt this, but that made me feel welcome and it really made me feel when I walked in the shop that there was, there was no baggage.

It was good. Now that first year, it was a change. It was hard. And Mandarian is brilliant. But me coming in and working through everything, we didn't have, you know, together, we didn't have the success that I think either one of us thought we were going to have and that was hard. You know, we wanted to do better that first year. You know, we, we had success. It was good. But it was like I was still fine in my way and he and I were trying to communicate. And so then the next year, we made a change. And Dave Rogers and I got to work and I kind of started feeling my way and understanding all the tools that I had there, getting better, getting in off a pit road, you know, better relationships. ship with teammates, working with Toyota. That first year, I spent a lot of time in the Sim. And I felt

like that second year, we really took off. And so to answer your question, I'd say it started off. It was a little harder than I thought. By the second year at the end of it, when we got to that race Homestead, I felt like, man, we can go forward here. We're going to win, let's say, average a five or six races a year for a long time. I felt really good. And that was really cool feeling. Let's talk about Homestead. So this is a tough one for you, I'm sure, and it's not a very comfortable conversation for me either, because I had been vocal critic of NASCAR's for quite some time for the probably past, at least probably the past decade, maybe a little longer. around the questionable cautions and that they had been throwing over the years.

And now I got to interrupt you. Even though they mostly helped you, is that? Is that really help? I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you. No, they might have. I'm messing with you. I probably shouldn't have said that.

No, it's fine. Say whatever you want. I, even if they did, I probably didn't see them that way. but none of us do. I know. You know, I remember, for whatever reason, I'm watching you race and you're leading. You're leading the race and you've got a clear, comfortable lead,

and the laps are clicking away. And then I'm not in the race, and my memory's a little fuzzy on exactly everything going on, but for whatever reason I'm not out there. And I just remember this, I'm in my bus, I believe, I remember the sound of the cars slowing down, and I thought, fuck, there's a yellow.

And I look out the window, and here comes this car down across the apron with a flat tire. And I thought, I can't believe they threw a yellow that was Carl's championship. He's trying to win a championship here and had it.

And they threw the yellow. And then from that moment forward, I mean, it was just chaos. And the next thing I know, I look out the window of the bus, and Jimmy Johnson is going into turn three with the lead on the final lap, and I thought Jimmy Johnson is going to win seven championships and tie my dad and Richard Petty.

There was just a lot going on that night, but I don't know that I would believe you if you said that that didn't have some adverse effect on you. you had raced your whole life trusting that the green flag would drop and the checkered flag would end it and that there would be nothing in between that that wasn't pure

and between the tie with Tony there was no shenanigans going on there but between how difficult that must have been to sort of get past, right? This questionable yellow, you had given everything you had to this sport, you'd been a good shepherd, you'd been an outstanding citizen in the industry, you'd done everything right.

I felt like I was sitting there watching this break you entirely. The way that, you know, that's the wreck that you had into term one was vicious. I don't know of another crash that I've seen you go through that was more vicious, just a bam, bam, bam, bam, a bang, bang, bang. And the way you reacted when you got out of the car, I saw in you, you know, your reaction to go to the pit box and say whatever you said, hey, go win the championship or whatever it was. Just the way you instant. You reacted, it was almost like you didn't know what to do with yourself. You were so dumbfounded by just what had transpired in the past 30 minutes that you had, you didn't know what was

the best thing to do in that moment. I just was so, I still today, don't know that I'll ever experience watching somebody go through something. And I felt like it just took, it took all the passion that you had for this away. And I wonder if you feel that same way, that, you know, I know you can gain it back, and I know, look, you're coming back, you're going to broadcast, you want to reconnect with a sport, you felt like you walked away from it, you felt like you turned your back on it, that's what you said. But, I mean, dude, you had every right if that's what you did.

Because, I mean, I felt like that you didn't deserve that. And I don't know how that you, I don't, I don't know how that must have felt for you. All right. Man, you teed that one up. So what I'm sitting here thinking about, my hands are sweating when you're saying all this, because I don't know how honest I want to be about all this, but I think I'm just going to tell you how it is. So, um, there's a couple things here and they're, they're really big deals to me to say.

So first of all, I don't deserve anything. And I've learned this that, you know, we were at church the other day, and anybody knows me well knows I'm not a, I'm historically an atheist at best. But I've come to realize at 45 years old that if I try to write down a list all the things that God didn't give me, that I did myself, there's an empty sheet of paper in front of me. So when I start there and I say, hey, everything's, then it's just a gift. And what do you do with a gift? If I send you a gift, your only job to do is enjoy it. And so for me, I was wrestling with some things like this at the time. I was seeing them.

I was living them. I was living that it wasn't my plan. It wasn't what you just described. It wasn't that I worked so hard my whole life and I deserve to win this thing. and it was taken away from me. What I realize is that there was a bigger plan than mine and that all that stuff played out just perfectly, and I was just along for the ride.

And so when I got out of that car, I was feeling something that was a lot bigger than me, and I wasn't sure how to deal with it, but it was the strangest feeling deal. I knew that whole weekend, and I was not a believer at that time, But I knew that whole weekend. My wife will tell you there were so many crazy things that happened.

My motorhome broke down at least once or twice on the way the racetrack. I didn't have a motor home. Had all sorts of issues going on at home that were very strange. Danica and I almost wrecked in practice. We had the fastest car and it was this crazy thing. In the middle of the race, either we had a bad pit stop towards the end or I screwed something up. And I came out and I almost gave up. I remember pulling out, we even behind the pace car thinking, I did it, I gave up my whole

everything I ever worked for it. I'll never forget Dave Rogers coming on the radio and saying, we got them right where we want them. And we went and we passed every single one of the guys I had to beat. And there was something about that caution. It was like the final thing to say, damn it, you're not supposed to win this thing. This is not supposed to happen. And I know NASCAR.

car was throwing those cautions to make it more exciting. That's a fact. And I specifically talked to people about it. And that's that. And we're all in this sport to entertain. And they were trying their hardest at the time. But my point in saying all of that is that it was an outstanding set of circumstances. It was very odd. But now I realize it was the best thing in the world, you know, for me. And I was able to get the message that I did not belong in a race car. That's not what I was supposed to be doing with my life. And looking back, I'm so thankful for it. I mean, it changed my life at that moment in a way that I could never have understood how great it was. So I know that's a roundabout answer. It might be too much to swallow, but that's the way I see it.

Yeah, I think it's just, I find it just hard to believe. Which part's hard to believe? Sorry. So you didn't have a choice but to experience it. It's what happened. Yep, yep. In the moment. Yeah. And I could understand, and anyone could understand, how that would break your spirit.

Yeah. If you just, we're just talking about your passion and love for racing. and I could, I would give you that. I would say, hey, yes. Be a broken man for a while. Yep. But to have, but to think I don't belong in a race car anymore or my life isn't, I'm ready to put this part of my life away. Yep.

I just. Let me bridge the gap for you. Okay. So you're exactly right. I wanted to win that championship. It's everything. I mean, you know, you know, it's everything I'd work for.

That's it. That's the prize you want more than anything in the world. And yes, I believe that was snatched. Okay. So that's part of it. Yes. The, the, and that was very,

very difficult, okay? So I had to look and say, okay, let's just go to the next year. Let's go to 2017. Right. Let me just be real smart. Let me just think this through. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go and I am going to continue. I'm going to put everything in my life second in the back seat. And I'm going to go starting at Daytona and I'm going to drive the hell out of this race car like I've been doing for 13, 14 years. And I'm going to run this thing all the way of the end and give everything I got another year of my life. all the stuff that you, you know, the head injury stuff started to really be a factor for me, you know, because I didn't think about that. And now I'm like, man, I'm not just giving up my time now. There's all sorts of things that I might be given up in the future. And then I'm going to get

to Homestead at the end of 2017. I'm going to do everything just right. And they're going to throw a caution with five to go. And we're going to put all this on a restart. And I thought, damn, I don't know if spending a whole year of my life and all the things you give up and possibly give up for, you know, one restart, like, I don't know. That's part. Yes, that's a big deal. You have to weigh that. And so, so yeah, I guess really disappointing, but it actually helped me to say, hey, you know, this is the reality. This is the reality. This is. is how it could go and is it worth it to you, you know? Yeah. Did you, had you dealt with some head injuries at any point in your career? Well, yeah, I'd taken all, I mean, I'd taken a bunch of hits and,

you know, you know how it is. They always say, oh, you're good, you're fine. And, um, but I don't know that anybody can tell you what the, the end result of all that is. And, and, you know, you talking about it publicly, it's the first time I ever thought, what, what's going on here? What's happening and started to look around and realize, oh, I actually need to be careful with this. And, you know, there's a cost to these things. So, yeah, I never, you know, I feel like I'm good. Yeah. I feel like I'm very fortunate. You did it? Did I answer the question about, you did. You did. Not. No, no. That's, that's good. It's just, I think that me personally, inside.

Like I had this same really, really deep obsession love affair with racing like you did and driving and wanting to drive and just, I love the hell out of everything about it, right?

And it's hard for me to it's still hard for me today to like understand their it's hard for me to ever imagine. there being a day where it's just not any part of what I do. Yeah. And so I think that's what I'm trying to get to.

Is your example or your situation where you said, yep, I can, I'm just going to stop right here. It's going to be cold turkey. I'm going to go do this. And it's, and I'm leaving. I'm out. And you did it. And here you are in front of me today. Content, happy.

you've gotten, you've gotten core memories that you've created with your family that you wouldn't trade for anything. And I don't, I didn't realize that that's possible, right? Is racing, or racing was always going to be part of,

but I tell my wife, she's like, you know, um, how many, she, she, she doesn't mind, uh,

me doing some stuff, but, you know, she wants me to balance with family and so. And I'm, like, I have to tell them, like, Amy, we're racers, we race. We're going to always race. You know, it's what we do. And it's, I know that that's bull-h-uh. Yeah. What do you mean? It's bull-s-what do you mean? Well, I mean, I know that I don't, I know racing is a

privilege and it's a gift. It's not a mandatory, oh, I've got a race, you know, we've got to do some racing. I know that I can live without it. I know that, you know, but I don't want to believe it. that you were able to just stop. Man, I... I get. I get. And so... And I can't imagine

that was very easy. But... No. You... And I want to know, too, like, I mean, that first year, that first two years,

that first three years, like, how did you calm down? How did you... How did you connect to your family, to fatherhood? And how did that replace the value that you got from racing? Do you remember when we were at the test at Phoenix when I went to help Suarez? After I quit, you came over and you asked you said,

how the hell did you do that? Do you remember that? Uh-uh. So for me, I'm glad. glad you're asking these questions. I feel like I don't, I feel like I'm just sitting here talking to you. I forget there's a lot of people watching that, I'm like, oh gosh. When I wanted to go racing, I want it, it didn't make any sense. I knew in my soul when I was about 15 years old, I wanted it so bad. It just, it just like crawled inside of me. And I would have dreams where I was in this dirt car and

I could hear everything and see it and smell it. And I wanted to race more than anything. And everybody looked at me like I was crazy. They're like, you can't, you're not a race car driver. You can't, I mean, this is crazy. You know, you got a good deal going on at school here. You need to be an engineer. I remember Schrader told me, he's like, be a dentist or something.

He's like, race, it's crazy. You know, and it was inside of me. It was something that I knew in my soul was right for me, okay? And then it was like an epiphany after 2016, the constellation of everything. I knew the same way. It was the same intensity of feeling. I tried to fight it. I went down to Key West.

I said, Kate, I'm losing my mind. I got to go get this straight. I went down by myself, got a hotel room sat in this on, out on the beach, in this hammock, tried to think through everything. And I made a deal. I was like, nope, it doesn't seem right. It's not right. If I do it, you know, I know I don't want to race because I'm worried about not being around my family.

I'm worried about getting hurt. I'm worried about losing, you know, doing everything and losing it on a final caution. And I thought, that's stupid. You're a racer. You're going to go do this. You can do it well. You can change the way you do it. You're going to, you know, you won't run the Super Speedway races.

That'll solve that. You spend more time with your family. You know, that'll solve that. You know, and screw their cautions. You can beat them anyway. And, you know, and then I got halfway home to Missouri. and I could not stop this feeling, and I turned right, went in, told coach, hey, I'm done.

And so what I'm trying to say is, it was the same intensity of feeling that I know what's right for me, for my life, as when I was 15 years old and everybody said you're crazy, you can't race. When I decided to stop, you know, 20 years later, it was the same thing. It was like, I know I need to stop.

And I don't, I got to forget what everybody thinks about it. I got to forget what the world says is right. It's done. And so it's crazy. And so yeah, so the first year or two, pretty weird, man. I remember Kate tried to turn the race on it was Atlanta, 2017. And she's like, let's watch the race. And I watched about a lap and a half. I was like, man, my head's spinning. I can't, I can't even imagine I'm not in that car. And so shut it off. And I was really a little bit lost. I would go places. and, you know, go into a room where the year before I'd walked in the room and everybody said, oh, it's Carl, man, I watched the race, how's everything going?

You know, what you got next? And I always felt real comfortable because it was like, well, we're getting ready for Darlington. And we're getting ready. And I mean, people for years would be like, how's your season going? I'm like, I'm not racing anymore. And then they looked like, the hell are you talking about you're not racing? Right. And it was so strange.

And I felt embarrassed about telling people, well, really, I'm trying to be a good dad. I'm trying to be a good husband. I mean, they would look at me like, I mean, okay. I remember somebody real high up in the sport called me about six months through the first year and said, hey, you're done me on vacation? Like when you're done playing? You're coming back? And I get it.

But for me, one of those first, it was like a month or two in, I was laying in bed with Kate. My son woke up and I heard him running down the hallway. And he jumped into bed with. with me he jumped in my side of the bed and that's the first time that it ever happened uh because i was the guy that kind of showed up and laughed and um kate was the parent you know and uh it i thought holy crap and said kate just said this which had been missing and uh that that that was pretty shocking to me so um yeah it's been a hell of a good thing since i stepped that's the greatest that's the greatest moment

every morning when they come climb into bed. And they'll get to an age where they just stop doing that. Yeah, I know. But before that, it was always, you know, I go to bed and I say, hey, Kate, it's a night race. You've got to keep everybody quiet. Don't let anybody wake me up. Do not bother me.

It was so different. Oh, yeah. And we all got a, this is part of life, but for me, it was time. So, yeah. I'm sure you had people reached out to UC and if you wanted to do one-offs. Yeah. And probably pretty decent cars. Yeah, yeah.

And you said no. Yes. And yes, I said no because I know two things will happen. Here's what's going to happen. If I, I'm, why you laugh at me? Because I know what you're going to say. I'm like, I'm going to go do that. It's like the Larson thing.

It's like, hey, you want to come practice at Wilkesboro? I'm like, I'm not going to go there and go slow. I can't do that. I'm just going to. Whoa, you're not going to do it. I'm not doing it because, and so, because. You're going to be a broadcaster. Don't you want to know how the car drives?

Exactly. Oh, I got all sorts of reasons to do it. Trust me. I know I can talk myself into it. But, well, that one's maybe a little more nuanced. But to go race again, I know I'm going to give it 100%. I'm going to go right back. And then it's like, well, if I do poorly, well, that sucks.

But if I do well, it's like, well, let's run another one. And let's win the championship. Let's wind it all back up. Oh, really. And then it's like, If I'm real serious about it, if I do worry about hitting my head, I'm going to hit it more often because I'm going to suck and I'm going to have to be trying harder. And it's like, is this really like, what am I doing here? Why? Why do it? It's got to make sense. And so, yeah, that's that, you know.

I'm hardheaded, no pun intended. I've noticed. And I stopped, I stopped running full time because I was thinking the same thing as you. I was like, well, I'd had some obvious. injuries and I thought, I just can't do this every week. I've got to be smarter and I just can't do it every single week. Now, maybe I could do it a couple times a year. Like that made sense to me, right? Yeah, you know, that's less risky. And so I ran one here, one there, and I finally stopped racing Xfinity. It's fun as hell, even doing just one. And you'd be surprised, Carl, if I put you in a junior murder sports car and you went to Bristol, you'd probably run top 10, no problem, have a blast. But I bet you, you would get about halfway in the race and you would say,

I know why I don't do this anymore. Really? You think you'd probably, you're thinking you'd get in there and go, this is badass, I want to do it every single week. But I bet the opposite happens. I bet you go, I remember this. It's fun as shit. I am glad I got the chance to experience the sounds, the smells, the adrenaline, the competition. But I'm actually confirming my decision to not do it. Thanks for saying that. And I think that's what you'd experience. Because I struggle with it, because I got this thing, you know, these like dissonant things in my head where it's like, I do.

I saw that you run, I think it was Bristol. And I, because there was something where you were, uh, yelling on the radio or something. Yeah. It was pretty funny. I remember thinking, it was cool because I thought, man, he's into this. Like he's having fun. He's competing. He's balancing all these things.

And I thought, man, that actually sounds like fun. But then I can't get this other thought where it's like, I remember the last year I was racing. I was at Pocono and we had rain delay or something. And I, I think it was the last year. And I remember calling Kate at home and being like, what the hell am I doing here? I don't I don't get it. What, what? Like, it didn't.

I was like, this isn't any fun. I don't understand. I could already tell you what the car is going to do in the race. It's like it's a, it was, there was something missing. So I can't tell which one's real, right? Is it, it's fun or am I wore out from it? And so thanks for kind of saying that and predicting that for me. Well, I feel like that you haven't entirely closed the door on.

a one-off somewhere at some point. And I think that you're in good enough health and mind and body to actually do that. And if the right opportunity comes along, you'll know it. Yes. And, but I think tester practicing that car is harmless. Like, especially, again, if you're going to be a broadcaster to be able to get behind the wheel of the car and come out of there and go, oh, wow, this thing's different than what I experienced. And this is why.

and I think you could justify doing it. But that dude, that would be so much pressure to drive that five car. I know. Holy smokes. Well, yeah. Yeah. I think other cars are so different now. It'd be definitely be interesting.

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Visit Dell Jr. Chevy.com and click commercial to explore the wide range of available commercial vehicles. The Dallan Hart Jr. Chevrolet team is ready to provide a world-class experience for your commercial needs. Chevrolet, together, let's drive. Did you ever regret starting the backflip? No. Did you ever have one that almost went wrong? So you say, did you ever, I just recently regretted starting the backflip because I felt pressure to do one at the Hall of Fame. And I really did.

That day, I mean, my brother was like, do the damn backflip. I mean, everybody was, and Kate was like, don't do the backflip. So that day was hard. The only one I really almost really screwed up was I left my helmet on when I was driving the planters peanut car. Oh, boy. Planners, peanuts at Michigan. And I thought, oh, I'll leave the helmet on and I'll do it. and it screwed me up.

But yeah, never anything, you know. I always thought that was so risky. That's funny. I mean, no one else is doing backflips. I know. It's fucking looks hard to do. No, it's easy. You just start up there and just jump as hard as you can,

pull your knees to your chest. And it was easy. But now it feels hard. I don't do them. I was real nervous about it at the Hall of Fame. When's the last time you did a backflip? I did it in my buddy's pool. John Marshall's pool down in Alabama.

I don't count. And I like, well, it was off the side, so I imagined the water was the ground, and I made it, but I pulled something in my, and I was like, damn, I'm actually getting old. And so, yeah, that's tough. I want to finish our conversation on the broadcasting. If I heard correctly, your reintroduction to the reintroduction to the, industry in NASCAR and your whole family that you that has been missing you was when you were invited to Darlington for the 75 greatest drivers and you were really surprised by the reception

you got yeah which I don't know why because everybody misses you everybody remembers you finally Carl and we were all excited that you came and but you you were like holy bully. Everybody is happy to see me. You were like, so taking a back. Well, you were sitting right there with me. You were sitting there when they... I know it. And they started clapping. I was like, unbelievable. And you hit me on shoulder. You're like, yeah, man. And I, that was the first time it occurred to me. Like, I just, up to that point, I felt real nervous. Yeah. Well, I don't know why. That's surprising to me. But from that moment forward, you've sort of, you've found a way to re weave, weave this sport back into your identity, you know,

and where you had basically kind of locked it away in this closet for years, now you're willing to open that closet back up and take a peek inside. And so, you know, are you, I know you must be excited about the broadcasting. You've had a couple opportunities to be in some booths and be around, that industry and that side of things, that perspective. And so, you know, kind of give me, give me kind of the, the 40,000 foot view of what your, what do you think your new chapter in NASCAR is going to be about? Well, I don't know.

And that's, that's one of the neatest parts. It feels like it's an adventure. But what I, what I do know is that all the pieces just lined up perfectly. here, you know, sitting here talking to you. That's one of the pieces, you know, that call that I made to you about, about doing this with Amazon, you know, Amazon Prime, I wasn't, I know that you and Steve are leading the charge and I want to make sure that, you know, everybody, I was really calling you to say, hey, you want me to be a part of this or not. And the first thing you said, I don't know if you remember, is basically like, hey, we want to do this as a team. We want this to, we want to build each other up.

We want to be a family. And it's exactly what I was hoping. I mean, you took the words that I was hoping, you would say, and you just said them. And so that was a part of this. You know, my family getting to be at the track with me and share all this at an age where my kids are old enough to understand really what's going on to be around all these great people. That's a big part. You know, they're pumped.

That day at Darlington. NASCAR welcoming me back like that. The Hall of Fame, you know, these honors that I could have never imagined. It's all just perfect timing. And, you know, for me, it's obvious that I'm supposed to come back and be a part of this. And I don't know what it'll turn into, but it feels good. I'm excited. It's going to be fun.

And it feels, you know, like I tried to say during that speech, like I'm coming home to a family that I hadn't seen for a long time. And I just, I couldn't be more excited about it. What do you think would be probably the toughest part of the role? I would, and I'm wanting to steer you toward how do you think you'll be able to be critical? Okay. You're the second person, Jordan Bianchi asked me that yesterday. I know. Yeah. That's where I pull it. That's where I pulled this from. Okay. And it kind of, it actually, um, it's, it's, tough. That's not the part I was worried about. I'm worried about, and I'm probably wrong, I'm worried about just not being up to speed technically with the cars. But, you know, Corey and Steve and all you guys,

you're so good at that. So I hadn't really thought much about being critical. I guess I'm going to have to really think about that. I'm going to try real hard, though, to remember that the fans, the fans are what make this sport go around. And if we can't tell the fans what we really think, and what we really believe is going on, then we're doing them a disservice. And my hope is that, especially with Amazon Prime, we got the time to not just like do a throwaway,

oh, I think this guy did this and that driver did this. We got the time to say, hey, you know what, I got this opinion, but what does that driver, what do they think about it? What do they have to say about it? I hope we get that time. Now, you're probably laughing at me right now.

But, man, it's harder than that. But, I mean, how do you deal with that? How do you say something that's critical? How have you reconciled that? My bosses at NBC that I worked with, I was very lucky to have some great people around me and shepherding me through that whole process. But they basically said if you can say it to their face,

like if you wanted to be critical about a driver, just say what you might say to them in person. Right. I thought you did this wrong, or I thought you could have chosen this route, or I thought this was a decision that spiraled their day, Why, you know, I don't understand that choice you made. And so, and I've been able to kind of walk that line.

But again, I think to your point about the fans, the fans sort of have an idea already of what the truth is. Right. You can't fool them. Right. You know, what's great about the pre-race and the post-race shows, and even in the booth to an extent. the pre-race and the post-race shows are kind of some of my favorite parts of the broadcast

because that's when we talk topics. We talk about the sport and we talk about the good, the bad, the right, the wrong. And it's good to debate. It's fun even when that turns into a bit of a debate. It's not all that fun when everyone on the panel is saying the same thing, right? Yep. One of the things that I wanted to, there's a lot that we're not going to be able to get to today that I wanted to talk to you about.

And there's just a lot. You got a lot of layers, buddy. But I'm sure that working with you over the next year or a couple of years here, we're going to have a chance to do more of these. But I wanted to give you an opportunity to celebrate your wife because in your Hall of Fame speech, you touched on how impactful she's been,

how supportive she's been. and I found myself feeling some similar gratitude because I, too, met an incredible woman that helped me grow and change as a person, do things and grow that I wouldn't have been able to achieve things that I wouldn't have been able to achieve inside myself, right? By myself. Yeah. I wanted to commend you in fatherhood because I got to meet your son at the Hall of Fame, and he's just an incredible gentleman. In just the brief moments that I was able to hear him speak and be around him, I could tell that he's been in a really great situation between you and your wife and how you've, the job y'all have done.

But I wanted to also mention something that happened at Darlington on the stage during the 75th. greatest driver's ceremony. We is sitting there between me and you and beside you with Sterling Marlin. Sterling Marlins been suffering over the last several years with some physical issues and they are very debilitating and he is he was having a rather difficult challenging time during that afternoon while we were sitting on the stage. I think Sterling is a very proud man as you know and he had a very hard time trying to to get someone's attention or even speak up that he needed some help. And you were the one person in that moment that recognized that he was in some serious need of some assistance.

You completely disconnected from this big moment that we were all going through as being celebrated and went 110% focused towards Sterling and getting Stirlin. Sterlin off the stage and getting Sterling to his people so he could get to where he needed to go and get comfortable. And I was really, and no one, you didn't do that for anyone. You didn't, you weren't, no one was watching. You did it for Sterling. And that was such a really good thing. I just really was, it hit me in my heart. It made me happy that you were there to do that for him. I don't think that I would have acted as quickly and as swiftly as you. And so I'm glad that you were there in that moment to get Sterling to where he needed to go. And with all that said,

after your hall of after hearing you in your hall of fame speech I just wanted to say that you've been on quite a journey and it seems to have made a massive impact on you as an individual and I'm grateful that you're coming back to the sport

I'm looking forward to spending some time with you and racing and going back to the racetrack and bench racing and I'm looking forward to getting to know version, this new version, this new Carl Edwards that, you know, maybe you've been this guy for years down there inside somewhere, but, you know, when we're racers, we're all egotistical maniacs. And we really, like you say, don't get to really know the true person. But over the past couple of months, it's been fun sort of getting this new reveal. And it's

impressive and I'm thankful to be able to get to talk to you today and I look forward to be able to get to work with you over the next couple of years and get to know you even better, bud. Man, that's a, thanks for saying that. And I'm deeply grateful that you brought up Kate. And so if it's okay, I would like to end talking about Kate. And so here's the simple thing that's going on in my mind. my life. I've realized that I spent my whole life looking around for all these things in the world,

right? Like fame and success and money and, you know, respect and sex and and whatever it is that, you know, says, hey, this is, this is the stuff that is going to fill me up. And, um, and with Kate, in particular, you know, she's one of those check marks. She's a, she's, I got a wife and she's beautiful and she's nice and she's a doctor and cool, check, right? And that's, and when I realize it's changed my whole life is that I've been looking out here. And, you know, if I win in 2016, I'm good. If I lose, I'm bad. If I, all these things and, and those things are meant to be loved. They're all gifts, they're all important things, they're good to be seen the right way, but they weren't meant to fill me up, to make me whole, to be the actual person that, uh, that, you know,

God wants me to be. And so I've realized that there's only one place where, where I get filled up with unconditional love, forgiveness. And once I'm full, as John Marsh would say, you know, I can give away now what I have. And so understanding Kate, in particular, that Kate, her differences, my differences, all the things we argued about for all the years. And she gave me permission to talk publicly that we really struggled. Those differences, those were exactly right for me. She's softened me as a person. She's made me a better person and being able to not require her to fill me up, to realize that I'm supposed to do the opposite. I'm supposed to love her unconditionally, forgive her for everything, be the best I can be.

It's been one of the biggest realizations in my life, and she has put up with so much crap, Dale. I mean, dude, you think I was difficult at Michigan out in Victory Lane? I'm a difficult human. And so Kate is unbelievable. I love her more every single day. And for you to give me just the chance to cue that up so that I could just tell everybody that, man she's like once again she's the best thing in my life and uh and loving her and learning how to love her and and and not be needy uh in the wrong way with hers has been really special so

ah man yeah i could go on and on i've been on a heck of an adventure man i um the last few years a lot stuff's happen um some people have shown me some things um we got to talk more about it i can tell you about some trips i took and some people i've seen doing real good in the world um there's out there helping their neighbors, doing the right thing no matter what, and they've inspired me, man. And so thanks for just being so kind to me. Thanks for having me on here. Thanks for pestering me all the years and putting up with me saying no. And yeah, I just can't wait to get to the track, have some fun with people, and share it with my family. So yeah, it's cool. Well, I wanted to give you a chance to speak on Kate because I can relate. Yeah. And I want to, and I know.

that, you know, I know how I feel about Amy and I too have can relate to a lot of things you're saying about your experiences over the years and I know how important that that can be. But thank you for being transparent. Thank you for being willing to talk about anything and everything. And I think that'll serve you going forward as you reenter this sort of universe of NASCAR. I think that'll serve you, you know, sharing your experiences, what you've learned, how you've grown. And people are excited to have you back. I know that.

So I hear about it all the time. And again, man, looking forward to seeing it to track, looking forward to working with you, getting prepared for this coming summer stretch. And thanks again for being on the show. No, it's awesome. Thanks, Dale. I'll see you soon, man.

Carl Edwards on the Dale Jr. Download. All right, so Carl Edwards on the Dale Jr. Download. That was everything that I thought it would be and maybe more. Andrew, you were here listening in? What's your takeaway as you're the first reaction? I don't know. I was pretty floored, especially when you guys started talking about his departure in 2016 and all the different factors that went into it. And even you just really trying to dig and understand. what exactly it was that made him retire, you know, because like you said, he went cold turkey and just learning about how you can pull that off, I thought it was really fascinating. It was a mystery, and I don't know why it's emotional for me, because there's this part of me

that there's a part of me that is terrified of having to completely leave. racing. And there's a day where I won't get to do even just a tiny bit of it, right? And so to talk to Carl and other drivers about how they leave and how they stop and how they go on and do things completely different, I don't, it's hard for me to wrap my brain around, but he was really transparent, really. thoughtful in his answers, emotional. I got, I mean, I was feeling, I was feeling some,

some tough moments there. And a lot of things that he talked about, I was, you know, making, it was making me reflect on my own experiences that were tough. And, and I really, I was surprised that he, he remembered us being in a hall, NASCAR hauler, NASCAR called us into the hauler, I suppose, at some point when we were not getting along. And I said that I thought his nice guy deal was a joke, was a fake, you know, or a facade.

And I did feel like that at one point. But I think the Carl Edwards that we're seeing today is a guy that's bearing his soul. you know, I think that this is a guy who is finally realizing how much value he has in his relationship with his wife and is, he's finally realizing the value that he has in fatherhood. And he's done something that I think a lot of, he's done something that even I want to achieve. And that is, he's found a way to live solely through those things. He lives for his marriage, for his kids, for being a father. And everything, he's found a way that, he's found a way that everything else is second. And I'm not sure that I am 100% there.

Like racing still holds. such a huge value to me that it, that, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I learned, I learned a lot, I guess, listening to Carl and, um, and seeing him act on those, those, you know, those decisions. Pretty incredible. Um, what did you learn? You said you learned a lot, like, what are some the things? And I, you touched on some takeaways, but, well, I think that I learned that it's doable. I've always had this fear of no racing. Imagine, I don't know if you can do this at this very young stage in your life, but imagine something that you just don't think you can live without.

And imagine having to choose at some point that that's never going to be a part of your life anymore. And for me, it's been racing. Like I can't imagine not doing something in racing, having my toe in the water at all times. And, you know, I wanted to be selfish and be up to my neck in this sport. And I was, I was, I got it, I did it all for myself, and I was doing this for me as much as I wanted. And now I've had to compromise, you know,

becoming a husband, becoming a father, other business relationships and responsibilities, and I've had to back out of this swimming pool. And I'm still selfish. You know, I want to keep my toe in there at all times. I want to stay in the shallow end at least or whatever, right, as a broadcaster, as a team owner, as a driver in my little late model car. And I can't imagine just waking up one day and going,

all right, we're not doing any of that anymore. We're just not going to do none of it. I can't imagine that. But he made it, he did it. It's possible. And he did it and didn't go, he did it and he wasn't miserable. Like, I don't know.

I feel maybe, maybe I might, I might not articulate this the right way, but I don't know how happy I would be for my wife, for my family, without some racing, some racing in my life. I don't know how, I don't know what I would be able to provide them, you know, without racing, being somewhere in there. I don't know what person I would be,

what kind of scared, scared to imagine, like what kind of miserable I would be. Yeah. You know, but he does. It's your identity. Yeah. He did it. it's not, it's not, apparently it's not your identity.

It's what you do. It's not who you are. It's what you do. And I'm got to, I'm still working on that. Like forever, for the longest time, for the longest time, it was who I thought I was. Yeah. You know, I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking too much about it, but no, I understand that.

Maybe I'm over, I'm overthinking it a little bit. But it's fascinating what he did. Yeah. And he's, and he's, it's going to be fun to really. get to know him on a personal level in this broadcast. You're going to be a teammate. Your teammates with him. Yes.

That's cool. Yeah. Going to get to know him on a personal level. He's going to be part of the family. We're all going to get in, get in there, and get to know each other. So we'll see how it goes. But I thought that was a great interview. He was awesome.

Fans are going to love it. I'll be surprised if anybody votes know that this wasn't a good race. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.