The Dale Jr. Download - Carson Hocevar: I’d Rather Fail at 100% Than Ride Around Safe

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with one of the most polarizing figures in the NASCAR Cup garage, Carson Hocevar, on this week’s episode of the Dale Jr. Download. Carson has become known for his unique approach to Cup stardom, be it weird hats or streaming on iRacing during rain delays. He fills Dale in on what drives this approach, specifically how he managed to get an iRacing rig onto the Spire Motorsports hauler, and how he has even gone into the garage after hours to sim race. Dale and Carson discuss social media content and their respective styles of creation. Carson recently came into hot water for comments he made on a stream surrounding the NASCAR trip to Mexico City. The guys discuss Carson’s growth from the incident and how this is part of the process of growing up in the spotlight.Carson talks about his path to the Cup Series, which began at home in Michigan in the quarter midget division. He explains that through help from former NASCAR driver Johnny Benson, he found his way into the late model world, and eventually landed a ride with Niece Motorsports in the Truck Series. Dale and Carson discuss his time at Spire Motorsports and how he seems to be helping the team elevate to the next level, as he has found himself running at the front this season in contention for wins. The interview also covers some of Carson’s on-track incidents, learning to rein in his aggression, and his social life amongst other race drivers Arby’s: Arby’s Cheesesteak is Here! Use code DALE to redeem $0 Delivery on any order in the Arby’s app.FanDuel: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York.Shop Merch: Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Dale Jr. Download merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuffYouTube: And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You know, I wasn't trying to, you know, ideally wreck him. Yeah. But my plan was to hit him in every fucking corner. Yeah. I thought he was trying to get away from me and he was going to slide and we're going to go to slide. And I just, that whole night, I mean, I remember, like, any time I see the video, I'm just embarrassed of it. Following is a production of Dirtymo Media. All right, so let's get started.

We got a great show today for the Dale Jr. Download guest edition. and Carson Hosevar is going to be the guest to come in here. I remember seeing Carson's name on the running order in an ir racing event one day, and I remember going, who is that? You know, that sounds familiar. And people telling me, yeah, a little late model racer, getting into some truck races. I remember just seems like yesterday. And here he is now a full-time cup driver, and it's been a rocky road.

He is very fast. He has absolute raw talent, the best kind of driver that you kind of love to get under your wing or into your building. Their projects, they have real, real speed. But there's a little work to do. And you want to be, you know,

you're hopeful that when you get that person in your team that you can support them and build around them and help them develop and into the perfect race car driver. So he's in that process right now. We're going to talk about some of those rocky moments. We're going to talk about, we're going to learn together really where he came from and what he did and how much support he had getting here. I'm not sure exactly where this kid came from outside of the truck series.

So it should be a lot of fun. I've spent some time around him, had conversations with him in the past. He's all smiles, and he has a positive outlook, and he's enjoying life. So let's get him in the room and get started. What's you got? What's that? This is the only superstition I got on race days is I got to go get the biggest sugary drink ever. It's a frappuccino.

I got you. Carson Hosevar. How's it going? Good, man. Yeah, pretty good. I appreciate it. What is, bride, the don't. How do you say that?

The dente. Dente? What is the dente? It's, so they have the presidente, like, margarita. Yeah. And so, like, you know, they wanted a, you know, marketing campaign and everything. So the Dente is, you know, just short for Presente. But it's, they've been telling me it's like their number one, like, marketing campaign that they've done.

Like, normally, like, you know, they do something, and it spikes and tapers down. Yeah. And, you know, it's just stayed flat. That's your Chili's people. That's by Chili's folks. Auto Group, Ziegler. Yeah, Ziegler Auto Group. What's that?

They do, they do, you know, car dealerships and everything. and they are from portage. Like literally his kid graduated the same, you know, years me, high school. We sat right next to each other. But I was from, I was online school. So he went back to his dad and was just like, hey, there's this kid.

Like, no one knew where the fuck he was, basically. And, you know, he drives race cars. And he knew him. And, you know, years later, they, you know, Jeff Dickerson was just like, hey, do you want to sign this kid? He's from your hometown. And so he jumped on.

And we've been together for the last two years. Coincidence. Yeah, super crazy. Very crazy. Where do we begin? A lot here. I was wondering where you're going to start. Yeah.

Well, I want to know whose idea it was to put the Simrig in the top of the hauler. That was mine. That was mine. How do you ask, who do you ask to do that? So I went to Luke. Um, your crew chief? Yeah, my crew chief, Lambert. And I was just like, hey man, like, I have like, you know, multiple rigs at my house.

How many rigs do you have? Uh, so I have two at my house and I have two in Michigan at home. And, and I was home for holidays. Like, I'm getting ready to come back NASCAR world. And I was just like, hey, like, I'm just literally looking at this rig in my basement. And I'm just like, I can put this in the hauler. Like, we have brand new haulers, brand new everything. I was like, hey, we'll have space for this.

And where is this space? So it's literally, so we didn't plan on taking backup cars in my hauler because you kind of split it. So the space is where the backup car would be. Like they kind of wanted, you know, when rain delays, they want the, you know, pick your guys to get out and get up and not just lay in the hallway. You know, if they're trying to bring guests or sponsors. They could get upstairs. They could get upstairs. So we have couches and stuff upstairs.

Wow. So I have a little nook at the very front of the second level where the, where the, where the, Briggs sits and they've loved it. The first time I had it was Daytona 500 practice and I was almost late because I was up there. Right. But they've, they've loved it just because I'm up there running and I remember I was running, I was running Atlanta races, you know, Super Speedways. Like, I mean, you know, I race. And like, that's probably the closest they got is the Super Speedways, you know, just because you get to race and do everything. And then, you know, we ran second. We were, you know, we ran really well at the spring Atlanta but we were making every move possible and um you know they accredited the sim rig

because they're like man you probably did like 300 miles up there and then got back out and ran so you're streaming too up there yeah yeah i'll notice that you streamed uh and so yeah it gets lonely up there so i i start like because you're just like eventually you're just racing and like i'm doing it at noon on a saturday so a lot of my buddies aren't aren't i racing so i'll just turn it on a lot of drivers aren't at the track though You just go ahead and go since you got the rig there. I just go. I'm there.

I go to, I love racetracks. I don't, I don't know what to do. I got a RV finally, or I borrow IV. We rent, rent, whatever. But I mean, there's a lot of times, so I'll just, you know, I can't sleep, so I'll just go walk the racetrack in the middle of the night and go sneak into the hauler and race all night

and, you know, be on the SIM rig. So, like, there's times where. You have snuck into the garage in the middle of the night. night and gotten to your Sim rig? I mean, sneak in is light. Yeah. Most of the time, I just, you know, the gate guy's like, you know, I'm wearing my own shirt most of the time.

Okay. They're just like, what in the, you know, how are you doing here? And I'm just like, hey man, like, you know, my face is right there. Can I, can I go run? And I'm trying to explain to him. And he's just like, yeah, man, whatever you want to do. Or vice versa, where they got the gate, like, actually locked. And I'm inside because I've been running all night.

And like, it's, you know, late at night. I'm like, all right, I need to go. and all the gates are shut so I got to call somebody and just be like, hey, I'm still in the garage. So I'll be in there a lot. Yeah.

When you're streaming, so I've seen who does the, who? You'll stream, and you'll stream from home too. Mm-hmm. And somebody cuts that stuff up. Who's cutting it up?

Brandon Pearl. Who is he? He plays, you know, he plays I racing all the time and runs a bunch of races with us. Yeah. So I got connected with him

and, And it was after Daytona, like, you know, he had like 4,000 people during the, he'll watch it. And he kind of somewhat manages your Twitch with you. Yeah, yeah, kind of. You know, he'll watch all my streams and, you know, he'll just text me clips. And I'm just like, you know, he'll have it all edited and stuff. And I'll cut some things out there. I'm like, I don't know if we should post that or I don't know, you know.

And I'll spice some, you know, I'll just cut some of his work together and send it out. And he started to do that some of the race stuff. Like every now and again, I was done with Pocono. He's like, LOL, sorry, but I edited this and that was funny,

and it's like my radio and stuff. Yeah. I already put it out. But I do all my own social. You do all your own social. Every post that is out there, it's me.

Yeah. Every post. All right. You can tell if it's not me ever because I don't use caps and I don't grammar check. And I think it's cool. All right.

Well, I like that you do it. And I don't, I think, you know, I, you know, there's some things that,

are going to get posted that are like business related, race related, job related, and I'm not going to post it any differently than the person that ends up posting it. Yeah. But I too do all of my own social media as well. I kind of enjoy it. Do you have TikTok? I do. Yeah, I don't.

I have one, but I don't know how to use it. All I do is just repost some stuff. Like it's kind of a mix of like Instagram and reels. Yeah. Like sometimes I put pictures with. video when like I want to like be all like sappy or like motivational and stuff and then like every now and again I'm just like ah this might be funny yeah I don't use TikTok that much I use i like instagram and I seem to have a basic basic understanding of what people want to what people

expect out of your profile on X versus Instagram I don't know that I have the content or create the content personally right yeah I could have a team we have dirty my media they could create all kinds cool shit for TikTok, but me personally walking around town and just living my life, I'm not... You don't know what they want to see on TikTok. I don't know what I would put on there. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of the same. What would I... So, like,

I don't use... So like, I post stuff. What could I tick talk? I mean, right? I mean, honestly, you're Dale Jr., you could just post your fucking morning routine. There was, that was a trend for a minute. Was your morning routine? Morning routine. Yeah. It was all like obnoxious. Like, somebody woke up at like 350 a.m. and they're like doing like ice baths and like working out and like they're making breakfast and they're like wiping banana peel that was a trend you could have tick talk that would have been

funny so you just need to know what the trends are you just need to know what the trends are but like there's a lot of times where like I don't like want to follow the trends like sometimes if I like genuinely think they're funny yeah but I follow that on Instagram what I'm having a hard time with is like on Instagram um you know if I if we if we if something happens like we we win a race Xenity race or something. Like I'll get a collection of photos and post a little photo dump on Instagram. Great day at the track. Yeah.

Pretty simple, right? Or there might be a reel or something of the kids being goofy on the beach or whatever, right? Yeah. And so that seems to really make sense to me. But I don't know what to put on TikTok because none of that stuff feels like it belongs on TikTok. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. TikTok's, it's kind of just it's weird.

TikTok feels like it's this. weird competition. Yeah. Of like who's got, who's got talent? Well, that's, you know what I mean?

It's kind of like a job of, for a while it was like a job audition to like go like acting and stuff because like that's what it seemed. It's more like a. Well, then everybody's kind of like copied. America's who's got talent and everybody's on there. It kind of copied every, well, it didn't help that everybody like copied TikTok,

like Instagram copied TikTok, Twitter kind of copied it. Well, I think TikTok copied Instagram. That's true. Well, so they were only videos. and then they started adding photos and then Instagram. They all do kind of do. They all just kind of just like, oh, you're doing this. We'll do this.

Twitch, when we had the pandemic, I bought all the shit. So, you know, I got a, I love my sim rig. And I've had the same SIM rig since probably 2020. And it's fine. T.J. has one of those square tube aluminum ones, which I like a lot because it has, there's a lot of accessories that are specific to that type of a build. Mine's a tube rig, so I can't really clamp and bolt things to it and add fun shit. But I still love it.

And when we were in the pandemic, I had another, I bought a, I figured out how to send my video signal and audio out of my rig through a network in my home into another PC. so I could actually stream. Oh, you had like a streaming PC. Yeah, had a streaming PC, and I did it just like you're doing it, but I wasn't doing it all from the same box, because I didn't want anything to, like, drag my eye racing experience down, right? And so... Yeah, I'm not technical.

I would have thrown my PC out the window the second I think stopped working, or, like, I just, like, plugging stuff in. I know. But I, so a long time ago, probably about five, or six years ago, I had some micro-studders in the corners on some of the racetracks. And ever since, when you see those, you can't un-seal. It's over. You can't un-see them.

You can't un-see them. And so every time you get in a race or getting to practice or whatever, you're kind of like, you're kind of looking for them, even though you're not, you're still kind of playing and having fun, but you're still like, are we good? Are we smooth as wing-beat? Because it's got to be glass, you know? Yeah. And so I put, that's why I ran everything through the network and push the audio and the video

through the network into this second PC. And I had a monitor for that PC over here. I had it all set up, had the lights, had all the shit, had the microphone. I mean, I spent all this money. And probably streamed, I streamed all those Fox races we did. Yeah. And it was pretty fun. I really enjoyed it, you know.

And then Kyle Larson made his big mistake. And all of us were like, holy shit. Yeah, yeah. you know, let's, I'm not, you know, everybody got, I, I wasn't really worried about making a mistake. It was more like, now this is taboo. Yeah, like, oh, shit to do it. And if you were there, if you go and start streaming, everybody would be like, oh, don't do what he did, you know, you're going to hear all that shit. Yeah. And so I was like, all right, freaking, uh, it's not worth the risk. I tore all my shit down. So the other week, you had a little bit of a,

you know, a little bit of a comment about Mexico City. You're, uh, you made your own very well-written social media post, which I thought, look, I read it. I'm like, he wrote this. I can tell he wrote it. And which I then appreciate the, I appreciate the sediment because I know it came straight from you. It wasn't like somebody was sitting there with you going,

okay, that's what we're going to say. And so, but does it make you, I guess, what I think you might be doing is like learning the, ropes, you know, you're not going to, I don't want you to stop streaming. I don't want you to stop being who you are. I think the fact that you have a SIM rig in the truck is awesome because I would have never asked my guys to let me do that, even though I've wanted to, you know, because, you know, oh, you don't want your crew chief to think you're not serious, but it's like, you know, what SIM rigs and what I racing and SIM racing are today are different than 10 years ago.

Nobody took it seriously, right man. Everybody laughed at me when I said, you know, I racing was a nice tool for a driver. But do you think that, you know, the streaming, the racing, the conflicts on track and all those things are just part of your maturity, maturation? Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing for me is like, you know, I wouldn't, you know, if I didn't enjoy streaming and I didn't enjoy racing, if I didn't enjoy everything, I wouldn't do it. Like, there's not like anybody just like, oh, we need to stream.

Sure. Or, you know, and, you know, the first thing that, you know, obviously I made that mistake of saying that stuff. And I was just like, you know, for me, I was just like, yeah, okay, I'll take a break. But I was like, you know, there's a bunch of people that were just like, oh, so you're just done, right? Like, even my buddy who, um, does clips for me, he's just like, well, man, like, I thought we had to, yeah, we had a good thing going here. Like, your socials are like doubled sense. And, you know, and I was just like, and I just give me two weeks, you know, three weeks.

You know, just, you know, let me have some time to, you know, reflect on it and we'll get going again. That's right. And, but yeah, I think the biggest thing is like I, you know, I felt like for me, you know, I've been a fan of everybody growing up. I was the number one fan of you, but like. That's weird. Yeah, it's a little weird. Yeah. Yeah.

But, like, for me, you know, I want to race and be exactly. exactly what I wanted you to race like and be like, you know, I'm sure you didn't want me to race like, you know, I was hoping maybe hits a bit. But like, I, you know, just, I wanted to be a fan of me, right? Like, I wanted, like, I wanted to be the person I am today and, you know, look back and just be like, you know, the kid, you know, I would be a fan of me watching if that makes sense. Right. Like, I don't want to, you know, number one, other than two for me is I touched on this when Carl Edwards asked me and I was just like, you know, I feel like, you know, I didn't want to take my lumps and just, you know, miss out on these, you know, opportunities young or whatever. You know, every race is an opportunity and when you're at the end of it, you're always going to wish you had one more or one more opportunity or look back of just like, man, it would have nice to have this or this.

And, you know, ever since I got in a cup car, I was just like, or even a race car was just, you know, I'm never going to lose an opportunity because I was nervous or, you know, was just like, oh, just, you know, they want me to ride around today. You know, that's what they want me to do. You know, first time I got in a cup car, it was like, you're going to run 30th. You're you have to learn how to get out of the way. You're going to have to, uh, and I was just like, well, shit, this is all you all think of me. Like, that was the most easiest I was ever going into a race.

I had more pressure driving your expedit car than that cup car. Yeah. Because it was just like, well, shit. Like, I was, like, I thought I was supposed to win in this. this and this like they're telling me as long as I'm three laps down I did a good job yeah and um you know I've just kind of just taken that with me of just you know I'm never I don't I much rather lose out going a hundred percent or you know my best and it not being good enough you know I feel like I'm going to make it now but you know that's how it was and I've just kind of carried that through of just like every

race is an opportunity you never know when the last one is and when you're done no matter if it's 20 years from now, you're always going to look back and just be like, man, I think I could have won this one if I tried harder or just knew this then. So I just try and speed up that timeline. Yeah, I look back on my career and definitely know that I should have worked harder, right? And I think everybody's going to do that. Everybody's going to look back and go, oh, I could have done more, you know. Definitely look back on my career, mainly not in the hinder cures. You had to work. They made you work. Yeah. They let me off the hook in the bud years. Like the URIs were mean, tough, awesome, badass. They're my family. I love them to death. But I honestly wish Tony Senior was even more

harsh on me because like on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, he should have been on my ass to be over there, right? But I was like, I'm going to fuck off. I'm going to play video games. I'm going to do this, and do that and not train or not study. That wasn't even a thing back then. We didn't meet. and have competition meetings and shit. But we should have been. But I wish I would have applied myself a little better in the first half of my career because I had really, really good cars. And I wonder what might have been of those, you know,

if I had worked as hard in the bud years as I did in the Hendrik years, right? But at the same time, I also wish that I would have had more fun. because there were some days where I was like, no, I'm not going to go. My buddies asked me to go to the concert. My buddies, you know, the guys are doing this or friends are doing that or the teams doing this. And I'm like, I'm just going to lay around, you know.

Yeah, you missed out. Yeah. And so there's, I guess, like, you know, to your point about, I guess, staying on the gas, metaphorically. Metaphorically. Yeah, I mean, that's a good way to look at it. Because you're right, you know,

you're going to get down this road one day. you can't do it again. You don't get to go back and try that all over again. And so let's talk about the Dell truck. All right, go ahead. Earlier this spring, you bought a 1997 Silverado single cab. Painted up like the number three, Good Ranch, Skinner, Earnhardt. Yeah.

And it's your daily driver. Did you drive it today? I didn't drive it today. The one damn day. So, hold on. So it's in Michigan. Oh, why is it doing? What the hell?

Well, so hold on. So we were on the plane. Wasn't it here? It was here. So we were flying and we ran good somewhere. I mean, I think we ran, it might have been right after, it must have been Nashville. We ran second Michigan's next week. And I'm sitting on the plane and Jeff Dickerson just looks at me and goes, hey man,

you're going up early for Michigan, right? You're racing Berlin and this and that. He goes, all right. You know, you'll get theail truck on Wednesday. I was like, what the hell you talk about? yeah we're sending a show car up for Ziegler and everything uh i'm throwing the dail truck in there we got a good like we just ran second we ran good dail truck's gonna be there you're gonna drive it around all week i'm saying like hold on man like seriously and so it went up there and you know we we ran

good so like it was like oh okay perfect um but uh he shipped the dale truck he shipped the dale truck you didn't drive it up there didn't drive it up there because they because i had to do an appearance but like we we somewhat joked about me and Jeff just riding yeah riding you know Buno Moss and you know shotgun and whatever just rolling and you know going down there and go through the mountains stuff and it's fun and we talked about driving it back and the starter broke on it oh and or the starter gauge broke on it and so it was up there had to get worked on and I was just like all right hold on my buddy Tim Horvath is up there he he wraps all my stuff he's going to nail this and so it's getting rewrapped right now

to be more accurate. Because there's some, like, stickers. Like, there's some... Inaccuracies. Yeah. Like, there's some logos that, like, the Good Wrench is too small. And it was driving me nuts. And when you drive it every day, you notice the nooks and crannies of, this is wrong.

Do you have the new wrap? I have the layout of it. And he's drawn out every sticker. So it's going to be the 97 car is what he's... That's what you're going for. Going for since the 97 truck. And that's the same year that, you know, your dad flipped and then got back in. So, like, there's a cool story for there.

So that's what we're going to do. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing the detail. Because I'm the same way. Like, we, this number two car, look, that 1980 championship car. Like, I had to remake a lot of those decals. The contingency stuff didn't exist anymore. And I had to remake a lot of that stuff.

And it's like, and I'm looking at the photos of the car. And I'm like, you're comparing it. Moving things like eighth and quarter of an inch trying to make sure. everything's like where it's supposed to be. Well, he spent, he spent about two weeks so far, drawing out all these logos and us going back and forth, so it's been fun. That'll be cool.

I'll text it to you when he's done. So why did you, where did you find it? Facebook Marketplace. So I've been looking for, I was looking for an old truck, or just something, and just something fun to drive. I get tired of looking at iPads and stuff on my dash and everything, and I just want something like that's old school.

You wanted something nostalgic. Something that I could just ride and it's nice and smooth and I could go for rides because I love I just love driving and stuff. So like I was just like I just need something nice and we were at Phoenix and we qualified third and I was just looking on Facebook marketplace. I always just scroll and just see what's funny or what's cool on there. And I find this truck and I send it to all my buddies and they're like, you should buy it. I was just like, no, like no, I'm not buying this thing. Like I was like, I love to but it's a lot of money. I don't spend, I don't like to spend money.

Now I'm good. And they're like, no, you really should. So I was like, fine. I'll send it to my business guy, Philip Smalley. I'll send it to him. And I'll just get shot down and I can just put the end to it. And I don't know if he was just pumped that we qualify third. Yeah.

And he just said, hell, yes. And I was just like, seriously? He's like, yes, you should buy this. Like you should love it or you will love it. And I was like, for real? Yeah. I was like, so we, why? I was sitting there.

in the grandstands of the Xfinity race, and before the Xfinity race was over, we already wired them up. You want to get shot down, you should just get a wife. It's probably true. She would have told you absolutely not. That's why I'm enjoying,

I'm enjoying my race cars right now. I'm enjoying my race cars. Boy, you don't get to choose when that happens. Yeah, so I'm taking advantage. And that happens that you're along for the ride. I hear you. Hey, T.J., you know that I got my own Chevy dealership down in Tallahassee, Florida.

We're part of the Hendrick Automotive Group. Yes, I have heard of Darren Hart Jr. Chevrolet. I bet you'd be surprised on what type of Chevrolet vehicles we specialize in. If I had a guess, I'm going to say it would probably be Chevy trucks. Well, we definitely sell plenty of those, but actually we're really big in commercial vehicles. We actually sell a lot of crane trucks, or the number one seller, actually, in crane trucks. Okay, I definitely did not see that coming. Yeah, pretty neat, huh?

So for any of our listeners shopping for commercial vehicles, here are some things you need to know about us at Delenhart Junior Chevrolet. We have hundreds of trucks in stock so you can find what you need fast. And we have people there that can help you with custom orders. So if you want to build the exact vehicle you need, we can do it. We offer complimentary delivery anywhere in the continental US. Plus, Hendrick Automotive Group is the nation's top rated dealer group for online reputation. Visit Dale Jr. Chevy.com and click commercial to explore the wide range. of available commercial vehicles. Our team at Dellenhart Jr.

Chevrolet will give you a world-class experience. Chevrolet, together, let's drive. Had you seen the Earnhardt documentary? I have. What did you think about that? Did you know all of that stuff? No. About Dad?

No, I mean, I've watched every documentary out there. I mean, I remember I had the, my mom found a little DVD which, you know, thing. and we thought we lost it. And it had the four, it was the Dale. Yes, that's the one. But then I was watching too the, when you did way back in the day. Yes, back in the day. So those, literally, anytime we did a road trip, that's why I played.

Really? So it was those. I just watched this on repeat all the time. So when I met Amy, I was like, hey, man, you don't want to tell you about my dad, but I'm not going to sit here and just ramble. We'll watch this Dale documentary, and that's what I made her watch. and because I thought that was the best sort of you know partially I was just like when you guys were coming out with it and I was just like isn't this like the fourth one right or whatever

like I was like I was like I'm excited to see it obviously but I'm just like man what what more could be added I know we were we were very hesitant because in my opinion Dale was it yeah Dale doc was it that came out in 07 I was like that's the document that that that The nothing that I would... But that's the gospel right there. Yeah, exactly. And, but they, I was like, if y'all can't beat this, I told them, I said, go watch Dale. I was like, if y'all come back and say, we can beat that.

Yeah, you'll do it. We'll do it. You're a race fan at heart. You mentioned love going to racetracks. You ran, you run a little pro and super late model car around Berlin and other places. You know, you kind of grew up a massive fan. you've got die-cast cars in your home and back where you grew up. You know, what is, I guess what is the, I love that, that you're, you know, you're a,

I don't know if traditionalist is the right word, but you're a core racer and fan of all things, motorsports, I would assume, but most likely more so NASCAR. What is it like, I guess, to grow up with all of those things at your fingertips and being such a massive fan of it? And now living out that dream of driving those cars on Sunday. Like are you, is it so, is it surreal? Yeah. Has it kind of, is there moments where you're like, you know, you kind of, you kind of understand how heavy this is and how big this is? I don't know if I've had...

Or is it good to be oblivious? Yeah, I don't... I've never understood why it wasn't like a shell shock, like a bigger deal. I think... I mean, what helped was, you know, by the time I got here, you know, kind of, you know, all those drivers kind of phased out or, you know, like, Kyle Bush or, like, he raced late models and Chase Elliott was running late models just before me and, you know, Blaney was running late models and, like, all these guys that now I'm racing with, like, I kind of saw

them grew up too or watch them can in race and everything so i think it was more just like or maybe i was just delusion of just like from like five years old i was just like yeah i'm gonna be an ask you're gonna do so like it was just like you know anytime it was like a next thing like it was just that that weird kind of confidence of just like yeah yeah like yeah like i i think the the the most surreal moments is like you know like for me was making it in my like not signing like making it for me

wasn't signing my contract it wasn't doing anything like it was like a specific time in races like you know running you know filling in for the 42 car at Bristol and running fifth in the night race you know running as good as we did my first day at St. Louis

but then it was just like yeah I remember you know lining up you know scuffing my tires at Watkins Glen and you know your green white checker number two lining up on the front row. I remember rolling down the, you know, just after the bus stop. And like, it was like I just like, everything just like got quiet. And I was just like, you know, I just kind of like looked around and like I never like

look around. You're just always in the race. Yeah. And I remember just like looking around just going like got like like this like, you know, for me like if it didn't map like if this wasn't what it all meant out to be like I was going like I would walk away. like it didn't like it didn't matter you know if like if i could not prove to myself you know whether you know and we've done good enough that like i'm playing i'm playing good stay and it's been

unbelievable but like you know you know if i signed a deal and i just felt fish out of water and everything i was just like i'm not i will never collect a paycheck at this at this thing like it like it's got to be life for me like it's got to be racing how i wanted to race how i was a kid You know, because, you know, there's times where I'd be watching guys and just feeling like they're, they're there to collect a paycheck or they don't, you know, care to be one spot better. You know, they're, you know, they're not, you don't see the passion out of them. And I was just like, I don't, I, it is against everything in my life to do that. So I was like, I'll never get there. So you, I remember my, I had a couple of these.

This is like the moment, but I remember one moment that sticks out to me. as I was at 1997 I ran like a limited schedule in the Xfinity series and I was one of those races was St. Louis and I pulled out of the garage to practice. Everybody's lining up waiting on the official to send us onto the track. And I'm like the 25th or 27th car. I'm way back there. But Terry Labani was running that particular race. And he also wasn't very high in points. So he's out there with me. And I'm sitting on pit road and there's Terry fucking Labani.

And I was like, you know, of course I grew up with my dad and idolized the shit out of him, right? And if I was even in the same room with him, it was like I was a fan, you know, just like everybody else. But man, it was really cool to pull out on the racetrack and look and know that Terry Labani was sitting in that car. Yeah, it's like, holy. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Dickerson always reminds me

he'll text me like when we were on good he's just like hey you know you're on custom custom player you played the video game today congratulations you know so like that's kind of like where I've always thought of it it was just like you know for my whole life basically

I've you know if I'm playing the video game playing with the die cast watching the race like I'm always thinking of just like what would I do you know seven years old of just like yeah I wouldn't have made that move or this and that. And, you know, I remember, you know, I'd race quarter midgets and, you know, I'd win, like, two races or whatever in my class and, you know, it gets kids and, you know, my age and stuff.

And my dad sponsored, you know, Mark Shook and Ben Raber at, like, a local division at Calamazoo Speedway, because he thought, you know, that's back when, you know, local sponsors gave, you know, here, there, and everything. And, you know, he thought I was just going to be a local hero where you could, you know, You have a day job, but you also race, and you can make some money. And, like, he thought that's us. Like, he's like, man, my kid wants to do this and everything. And he, and, you know, I just remember, you know, I'd get to the racetrack after running my races.

And I asked him how he did. And he's just like, yeah, we ran fourth today. And I was just like, God, I would love to just say that. Like, because I was like, man, I know your fourth means a lot more than, like, me winning, like, three races. Like, that's just how I was thought of it. And when I was a kid was just like, yeah, I won. three races a day where most kids are just like, I'm, you know, the best are just like, I kicked their ass today. I'm just like, man, I'm just, I ain't shit. Like, I want to be able

to say my fourth mattered that much. Yeah. And just see how much it mattered to him. What was your path through racing? What all the car, what classes did you go through? So I ran quarter midgets with Dale Raver and, you know, Ben Rayber, who passed away when I was young. He was the one that, you know, I'd walk around. I was the kid at Calamazoo Speedway that everybody knew. Like my mom let me go and I'd run around and everything. And, you know, he just one day was just like, hey, you know, your kid loves racing that much. You need to go to, you need to, you know, try quarter midgets. So I did quarter midgets and my dad met one of his best friends, Barry Landau, and he told him everything. And Barry knew Eric Jones's dad. So Eric,

and, you know, was a few years ahead of me. And, you know, his best friends were kind of my friends at the racetrack. But I was like the seven-year-old to the 14-year-olds. You know, he kind of got out at 12 and I got in at 7. And, you know, I was just the young kid that they happened to, you know, didn't think was stupid, basically. Or just, like, goofy or whatever. And maybe I was. But, you know, ran quarter midgets for multiple years and did that forever.

and, you know, my dad, you know, through sponsoring some cars, knew they got built some car, Johnny Benson built some cars. And, you know, my dad was just like, hey, man, I really want you to, like, help my kid out, do everything. So Johnny Benson? Yeah, Johnny Benson. Damn. And Johnny's just like, yeah, whatever, man.

Sure. You know, every kid's next Jeff Gordon. Cool. I'll sell you a car. Like, that's about it. So we went to Hickory. I was 11 years old and went tested. and I don't know what he saw because I thought I did terrible.

I was completely lost. You know, ran an outlaw late model on pavement for a while. But he's just, you know, after testing, he's just like, hey, we're at Hickory. At Hickory? At Hickory? We went to Hickory and he said, number one, we're going to learn to race Berlin, but we need to test during the winter and we need to teach it. Yeah.

And he's like, it was here a Rockingham. Yeah, right? And I was just like, I can't. Like, really? That's like those, it looked like dirt wedge cars.

Yeah, they're wedge-bodied cars and everything. They're 900 horse. Yeah. And so we, every week I drive down in North Carolina and we test, got approved to somehow race at 12 years old and raced all year, won a heat race, didn't do any, uh,

Berlin. So everything was just like, he's like, you're not going to, you're not racing anywhere else until you learn Berlin. And so I raised. Why Berlin? He said you can race, race it anywhere.

If you can race Berlin, you can race anywhere. And it didn't take me until like a year or two ago to understand why. But Berlin changes so much. Like one, like, is so different. It is a different track every time you go. And it's not that the track's so hard. It just gives you so many different types of Berlin. You know, someday it's cool and the track's gripped up and you run the bottom.

Some days you run the top. Some days you start running sliders. lines. Some days you run this and that. And we've won the last two races by running this unique line that this local legend, Tim DeVos, was running when I was there and we'd laugh at him. We'd sit there and just be like, you know, he'd quick time every time, but he'd just burn the shit up. You just run in the fifth lane. And we just sit there and laugh at him. And now I'm just like, he was ahead of his time. Like, now that's the line I run. And we've won the last few races. But anyway, so I ran Wedge Body Outlaw Late Models of 12, and they went template racing,

or they had template body late models more traditional, and we're just like, all right, we're going to go, you know, go try that now. Like, I'm running okay in the wedge bodies, but, like, templates really where we need to go because then we could start traveling. So he shipped me off to a guy named Mike Burrzzly and KBR and Don DeWitt and Zach Dundsen, who still, who runs my whole late model program now. Oh. And that's how he stuck with him.

And so we ran Berlin and did okay. And the wedge body late models, that's really where I was a lot. Like I was like, okay, I might not be absolutely horrendous here. Because the outlaw late models, like, I have moments of like running like fourth. And then other days I'm spinning out, running backwards and just hit shit. Yeah. And the wedge body, you know, we were like quick time. leading points, you know, never finished worse than like fifth, and won a race at 13. And then

Mike Helton calls my dad and says, hey, you're all done. And they're like, what do you mean? So Berlin switched to NASCAR sake shift the next year. And because I was 12, they're like, hey, we have this kid and, you know, we're going to wait a year. And they're like, no, no, he's grandfathered in if he's already raced there. You're good. Well, then we won. And they're like, no, no, no, that's not how this works. So it was actually probably like the best thing for me that halfway through a year we're leading points that I was just like, well, shoot, like now I get to go travel. So we went traveling, ran Jigs for a while and ran okay. And next year we were, we won the Trek championship. Next year we saw. Where? Berlin. We went back to Berlin and won the track championship at 14,

legal age now. Yeah. 15. I was terrible. We were junk. we were like it looked like my racing crew is over why why did you not run good terrible like um we were we were if I had this right I it was just I don't it was just like I think our cars weren't great and we were just getting lost and you know I'm 15 thinking I know exactly the what what changed was we went to snowball derby we went to the snowball derby we went to the snowball derby and it was a reality check and we were we ran the snowfall lake and we were good and I wrecked in qualifying and

it was just like self-destruct mode and you know I we had figured out that like I had no idea what kind of feel I wanted for a race car you know I'm still new to traveling and I was just like I'm so used to Berlin

of just like you just adapt and you just learn and you know as they're trying to fix the race car I'm trying to fix myself driving and you just you know we're just spinning backwards and we have these weird shocks on now and it was just not good um so we kind of got going again after that and got rolling uh late when i was 15 and uh the team owner was just like hey we're gonna we're buy some market cars and i was just like okay like cool and he's like well you're gonna you're gonna drive them and

you know you know bring some money and we're we're gonna go racing and by then we're you know we looked at Ventrini and I'm just like, I got about race, race and a half. You know, because we're kind of looking at it. Eric Jones, it was funny because Eric Jones was racing when I was running pros, he was racing supers for this team. Yeah. And so it's just kind of funny like how like he was connected, but we're trying to follow the Eric Jones path of how he made it. And, you know, he went to Ventrini, went to Toyota and I remember looking and, you know,

a long time ago. And Philip Smalley, who's my agent now, I remember he had. he sent me that Toyota form like in 2015. I didn't even know it. But I was just like, you know, we don't have any money or for that. And so we ran Arka cars. You know, I remember we were racing in the shop and a bunch of guys that had worked, you know, at Berlin used to crew ASA. So they go over the wall. So we were literally practicing pit stops before our first Arka race. I ran like one race that year. And then when I was 16, I ran, we ran a bunch of races. And we were good. We probably should have won one or two.

But every time we come to Out Pit Road, we come out ninth or something. Like, it was a lot of fun. And, you know, I got to run nine races on probably what it cost me to run two. And you're forgotten. And what moved the needle was, for me at least, was so I ran when I was 16, Jordan Anderson's truck at Eldora. And we ran, I never ran really dirt before. Really?

a few times. Yeah. So I, so when I met with going back in time, Johnny Benson was going to go run late models, and I was working with Tim and Brian Kloss and some. They kind of saw me and everything when I was running corner midgets. And they were like,

hey, you know, we have this kind of development program, you know, go from like micro midgets, sprint cars, you know, and go racing.

I was just like, well, I want to go to NASCAR racing. And they're like, well, no, like, you got to,

you're going to go this route. Like, you got to be all in on this. And I was just like, well, it'd be a lot easier. Like, I don't feel comfortable on dirt. I'm going to go this route. So I went late mall racing and everything. So it was funny that my first race was, you know, just on dirt.

And Wally Rogers was crew chief in it. And we ran third in my heat and running fifth during the race and not the radio out of it. But we were running good. And I was just like, well, that was cool. You know, like, I remember watching every race from Eldora for last, you know, for three months before. hand when I knew I was racing it and um Jordan was just like hey do you do you want to run Phoenix and so

we put all the money we could together to run Phoenix and I went to the shop a few weeks early working in the shop you know not doing anything just pretending to pretend to work on it basically you know they're like hey move this and I was just like okay sure you know you know I'd show up every day and you know I'd basically lived down here my mom would do work in a lot or in a laptop you know we'd drive Michigan or Carolina almost every day and you know I'd show up and, you know, I'd met with every truck team you could, and, you know, it's a normal deal, you know. You seem like you could be good, but, you know, it's expensive sport, need a lot of money. And what really helped was that it was in the same shop as niece.

And so we went to Phoenix. We qualified, like, 13th. And I didn't cut the trial. Otherwise, if I cut the dog later, I would have qualified, like, six. Yeah. And, you know, we didn't race as good at all, but just qualifying. I think we outqualified the niece truck that they were going to put full-time. I think it was Mjetsky.

We out-qualified him. And so, me and my dad, I mean, this is very long story short, because, I mean, there's so many times where, you know, me and my dad and my mom would go at it all the time of just like, you know, we're, you know, if we went bad, if the race went bad, my dad would go in on Monday and see all the money he spent, realize how hard he's working. They own a little coin and jewelry store And they work nonstop You know everybody You know for how many times I would land in North Carolina Everybody just thought I had a jet

Yeah And it was my mom You know my dad's never had a vehicle A new vehicle Since starting racing He's never had anything And you know he has a duly That was our old race hauler truck

That the check engine light Just turned on and everything But he You know would go in So I mean this is a lot of you know blowups. And so, you know, we're sitting there talking and, you know, we're getting ready to try and put every, every dollar they got, you know, just, you know, all but getting close to selling the house type of money to go do this Jordan Anderson, six race deal, like 17 years old,

like, hey, I got to try, get in the door. I just got to race. And I remember in December, my dad calls me and he's just like, hey, you know, niece motorsports called. I was like, oh, that's cool you know that's nice well you know his first team to ever call me yeah um you know it's too bad it's too expensive and he's just like no like that they figure it out we'll go racing like with what we got it's fine and i was just like well shit like wait wait wait you still on the phone with me like are we going north carolina where we going yeah and so i you know showed up there was cody eiffel that called me and um the next year covid hit and we took the same budget same budget or six race race and ran the whole year the next year.

Damn. And made the playoffs. Brett Moffitt was the full-time guy. I had Cody Eiffa, the GM, and Moffitt and then weren't Clyden. He was out. And that allowed Phil Gould to move to my spot or moved to my – like I got the A program, per se. Like I got Phil Gould, who's really good. And, you know, right away, it was like second, third, fourth, and made the playoffs, made it to final eight.

next year it was just like hey you know we still got to bring some money so we pulled everything we had you know every favor to family members everything we got um it was like hey like you know things are getting more expensive now that COVID's kind of done and um and you know this point where I'm now got a taste of running good so now I'm running into more stuff and you know I'm driving harder and it's just like I got to win like I have to win that the house is legitimately on the line. Like, I have to win. It doesn't matter what I do.

Like, I've gotten close a few times I got to. And, yeah, so we did that. Year three, somehow we convinced them to, they sold a sponsor on me, and they hired me to be a race car driver, and that's where I went racing, and then that year we won a bunch of races, and, you know, got to run your ex-fifty car some, and, you know, through Spire, and then all of a sudden now I'm driving it. So Spire, Spire.

fire at some point during the Nice deal is, you know, kind of, kind of signs you to their development program, if you will. Yeah, I mean, kind of. How does this fire relationship develop? So we, we were working on sponsors on my end, right? And with Nissan, a full sponsor, we were just like, well, we have a few sponsors that isn't family, it kind of is, but like, it was just like, hey, like, you know, if this sponsor goes, way like I might have to bring money or at least the next step I got to I got to start building on

something and I was just really big on just like man like I felt like I was running good and then we took a month off and then the playoffs hit and we didn't run good so I was just like like what can I do to make sure we make it to the final four and actually win some races so I was just like I got find an expedit card somewhere and philip smally was kind of helping navigate that a little bit and you know he has a great relationship with spire and you know there was talks of doing it with like BJ with like you know kind of just like an RCR car wrapped and everything and it was going to be Chevy or something but um then it was just like getting Jeff and TJ to you know kind of do this makeshift car for for you with you guys and everything and but like

there was not really like I didn't even like know Jeff like I didn't even know Jeff I wasn't signed I wasn't on their prospects I mean I maybe was but I didn't know it um I knew TJ a little bit because he showed up one day at the blizzard race that was racing at Pensacola that year, and he's just like, hey man, it's great. Great, you're going to drive our car. And I was just like, sorry, who are you? He's just like, I'm DJ. I was like, oh, okay, nice to meet you.

We drove 36 to 5th. But, you know, me and Jeff are like father's son now, but at the time, I mean, I never met him. Yeah. So you have been part of the Spire deal as it's turned into a legitimate content. I mentioned this on the broadcast a couple times that I don't know that we really appreciate how far this team's come and I mean it was just a couple years ago they were having to run it like a business and now it's in a situation where you legitimately show up to the racetrack committed to win they weren't that wasn't the race team that Spire was No, I mean, it wasn't even really was when I signed. Right. Like I had a bunch of people like, I mean, this is when we were having blowups about money.

But, like, I mean, I had people really, really close to me and my family just be like, congrats, career suicide. Good job. Yeah. You know, I had people in, you know, in my inner circle, you know, really close to me that, you know, aren't in that inner circle anymore. But just like, they were just like, are you fucking sure about this? Yeah. Like, you're winning truck races and you're going to do this? and I was just like

I don't know I mean I've always wanted to drive a cup car and I was like I didn't get in winning stuff in trucks and I was like if I really believe in myself I can make this stuff winning or I can make this stuff better and I can like

you know I've never had you know Arc car truck late models whatever like it never was like winning before I got there so I was just like I've done it before like you know and not just be like oh I'm going to make this winning but I was just like let's just see where it goes

yeah right Like, I just got to get in the door. I got to get to Sunday and see where it goes. And if I was wrong, I was wrong, at least on Sunday, you know. So what's that experience? What's that been like to see this thing develop? It's been, I mean, it's been really fun. But it's been crazy.

I mean, all the same people on my car. Our car is all the same car. When it was 33rd and owner's points the year before, Dan, Peter Suspenzo, CJ, all them. I talked to Peter at Mexico, and he was like, I was like, man, how is this team changed? And he's like, it's not, it's the same people. It's exactly the same. The only people that changed was my spotter, Tyler Green,

me, my driver, and Luke Lambert. Y'all got better engines, and Dickerson gave you the green light to go out there and race. Yeah, pretty much. Like, they, I mean, you're, I remember sitting in our company dinner before the year, and, you know, just the sponsor was just like, So what do you expect, TJ? And he goes, we're going to hit a lot of shit.

We're going to tear a lot of shit up. But he's like, I think we're going to be fast. We're going to see what happens. And year one, we only had one DNF, and it was because of tire fell off. And year two, it's been, you know, year one, it was, you know, just, you know, we started with just like, hey, me and Luke were just like, hey, we've, we've ran. I think that was probably the best thing for us was I got to race with Luke in a cup car. So before my rookie year, we had. The only experience we had was Cupcar, you know, like a cup car going into our rookie year together, and we had ran fifth, we'd ran good, so it's not like, you know, I feel like rookie years can get really muddy or teams, new deals can get muddy when, you know, there's the doubt.

But like for us, it was just like, well, at Spire, I ran good my first time with like four day notice. With me and Luke, we ran good with like two weeks notice. So it's just like, well, all the pieces are. Like, I'm good with you and you're good with me and we're good in this shop or everyone getting this shop before. And it's a lot nicer shop and nicer cars. So it's just like, if we're not fast, it's not any of us. It's just, we just got to get our cars better.

So that was where, you know, year one, we just made it super building. Just like, let's keep our nose clean, not tear anything up. Yeah. Just go out in the next week, try to help our metric. and we'll be better spot points. People would say that you don't have that ability to compartmentalize and say, hey, we're just going to go out there and accomplish this minimal goal,

not go up here and risk this. Yeah, you won. We did that. That's why we weren't really seen a whole lot. Because we were doing that. Our goal was like 25th. Let's just stay on the lead lap. Okay, we click.

20, 15. And now, you know, this year it's just been like, okay, we're going to, like, we have to run up front and get stage points. Like, that's our goal. Like, because last year we was like, okay, we're looking at points. And it's like, okay, we're 18. But like it's next 100 to the next guy. Right. It's because he's got 100 stage points.

We have nothing. So this year we have 100 stage points and we got a lot of bad finishes, you know, some self-inflicted, some mechanical, some freak deals. but yeah they I mean it was ever since end of the 500 we had a fuel pump issue that we ran 40th all day it was just like you know Jeff just kind of looked at me it's just like you have the green light you know let's see what you got yeah and you know I was always the one that super speedways right around the back our cars weren't any good I felt like to to that I was just going to cause the big one the second I got pushed and I was just like I don't want to be up there and you know they always give me a hard time that I'm scared and everything.

everything. And so Atlanta, I was just like, kind of, fuck you guys. I'm taking every run. I'm going to go be aggressive. And I'm going to race my ass off from one to the end. And at lap 10, my spotter keyed up, we get your point. You can calm down now. Like you've proved your point that you can race at these super speedways. But yeah, I mean, that's been kind of our intensity level, I feel like, has been the same everywhere. It's just whether like car or me can handle it on the right day. But I think that's we're trying to operate in that level now because if you're expected to win races, like, you know, I don't feel like the moment's going to be too big because we're already, our intensity's here. You know, I feel like guys get that winning opportunity and now they have

to raise their intensity up. Now they're uncomfortable and then that's when they, you know, kind of bust their ass. Yeah. So this year you've had some moments with some other drivers, some conflicts, some disagreements. Stenhouse and you have been, you know, in a little bit of a pillow fight for the past couple of weeks. And I got to ask you, I mean, the Nashville race aside, Mexico City, like what is going on where you go punting in the... So I was, so I saw him in front of me, and he was kind of like pushing up. And so I was trying to Do you remember hitting him earlier in the race and nearly spinning him out in the same corner? So hold on.

So hold on. This is where you just cut all this part because now it's just going to be excuses the whole time. But so this is what I, so remember when Riley like hooked around and the 47 was really close? And then like he like putted right and then I almost hit him. I thought he's, I thought his car was dead. Like I thought he hit the 35 so he was putting over. And so he turned left. I was like, oh, fuck.

And so I locked up the brakes. Well, you know, we ran a. bunch of laps and I'm just trying to get comfortable and the straightaways are so long that you know our cars are kind of slow with the horsepower with the elevation and everything and I noticed he was catching the guys in front I was like oh I'm going to earn some back here I'm pushing down straightaway so I was kind of staying close and everything and I'm just the biggest brain fate ever I just got in the corner and I was just like oh there's a corner here and so I went to the brakes I locked up did you just get distracted I just got I just kind of got zoned out zone down

I was just like, you know, just, just banging gears. Just like, oh, now it's like five to go. And I'm just like, oh, caution's not going to come out. Just, yep, yep, yep, yep, you know, this feels normal. Oh, fuck. And for a minute, my guys thought I, like, passed out because my car just goes straight. And I am legitimately in there holding the wheel straight, either getting ready to turn right to go to the garage. Right there, not actually.

But I was just literally just sitting there and I'm watching him. I don't even turn the wheel. I just literally just like stop and I'm just literally watching him spin. And I'm just like, please for the love of God, save this thing. Please for the love of God save this thing. Just just something. Like even if you lose a spot, just save it. And I just watch him spin around.

I'm just like, okay. Do I just wait for him to go? We're not. Do I just get wrecked now? Do I like, I'm like, what do I? So I just stay. My car just stayed there for a while and they thought I legitimately like had like a medical emergency of just like I passed out from the heat and whatever, but I was just like, no, I was just

sitting there watching, you know. Do you think you're an aggressive driver? I mean, yeah, I don't know if I think. I just, I know. Are you? I am. You are 100%. So this isn't, so I mean, that, not that you're going to run over Stenhouse every, you know, every couple of weeks, but like, you would say that that's racing aggressively and physical contact as part of your, you know, repertoire or send your tool belt. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so when somebody says to you, whether it's a broadcaster or another race car driver, man, he's got a lot, he's got to clean it up or he's got to do this or he's got to do that. Are you, is your thought process? No, man, that's who I am. And that's how I'm a, that's how I'm a race.

Now, now, I hear you saying, I made a mistake, that moment at Mexico. Mm-hmm. But let's go to Nashville, turn three. Are you saying, no, man, I mean, I think that's kind of how I'm going to do things sometimes. Yeah, I mean, I think there's just multiple ways to skint the cat on it of just like how I thought, like, there's a car directly in front of him. He's probably going to, I show my nose real early. He's probably going to want clean air. He's going to run the middle.

And he did. And I'm going to take that hole. Yeah. or I'm at least make him go higher. And he didn't. And I was just like, no, you're not coming down here. I got you. And then, you know, just like, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, kind of just like force this to happen.

You know, that's just kind of the instinct of just for my, I guess that's more who I am is just like when you start doing something, I'm just going to just take that last second of just like, no, hold on. Yeah. Like, hold on. Like, I'm coming in. I'm on my way. Yeah. I'm going to get there.

your spires get a call inside and you're about points two seconds and uh and sometimes that you know leads to you know people trying to cut over or whatever and um you know there's plenty instances where I'm just like oh that's too too much or not but I felt like that one was

kind of racing of I think he thought I was going to cut him a break and I was just like well shit why couldn't I get one or two you know like why can't I just then why can't we just race side by side in that corner So when you, if I go back to Phoenix in the truck where you just went berserk. No, stupid. So is, let me ask, now that I, well, I didn't know the, now that I know the front end of the story of, you know, the family risking all of the, you know, the finances, was that night more of you, more about you going, I got to do this to, because I got to make it. This is the only way I'm going to make it. I don't win this championship or if I don't succeed tonight,

I'm not sure I get to do this, you know. It was kind of that, but it wasn't like I'm going to make it. It was me of just going, this might be my only and last time to win a championship. Right. I don't know if I'm going to win a cup championship. I don't get a shot in Xfinity. You know, like this is, you know, this is it. I just signed with Spire.

You know, like at that time, I was just like, Like, we win a championship or, you know, any time to see him. Sure. So it's just like, yeah, like I got to go get this thing. And, you know, I wasn't trying to, you know, ideally wreck him. Yeah. But my plan was to hit him in every fucking corner. Yeah.

Like, I hit him three times because I was just like, I just got to stay. I can't let him get two cars in between. I got to, like, if there's a restart, I got to be, I got to be, he's got to be next to me. I was like, the only goal I have is to keep. keep him as slow as possible. Yeah. And just make sure he could not keep. So I remember getting into him twice and everything.

And, you know, I was just trying to get there. And what cost me was him actually passing a truck. I thought he wasn't passing a truck. And, or that he was actually going to make the corner. I thought he was trying to get away from me and he was going to slide and we're going to slide. And I just backed him right in the fence. And, yeah, that whole night.

I mean, I remember, like, any time I see the video, I'm just embarrassed. I mean, oh, my God. We all have those. There's plenty. But, like, I legitimately. It won't be the last one. I mean, everybody has, I've had, I've had, there's a wreck where, and we've talked about it a lot on here, and I even hate to bring it up, but I wreck Vickers on the back straightaway at Daytona.

And, I mean, I am embarrassed when I see it because the whole field gets taken out. Yeah. I'm still mad that Vickers blocked me. As mad right now is it happening in that. moment, but the rest of the chaos and calamity that followed is something that you, you know, you can't do much about. Yeah. I, I, somebody, I think, uh, I, I never, I never really get into the whole Twitter thing

or what people say and whatever, but you don't. Um, no, no. I, I care more like, what my family thinks of me, what my sponsors and team, but like, the rest is just kind of noise, like, you know, good, bad and different. I just hope they're talking and making noise. I just know that's part of the gig. That is. It's a good way to look at it.

But the only thing that kind of rubbed me the wrong way that I was just like, like I was just like ready to like, you know, get on there and start tweeting was, um, people thought I was faking, you know, like I saw the in-car cameras like, I'm going to put on an act to you. You know, when I was banging stairwheel and I completely, if I knew that in-car camera was there, I would turn it around. Or I would have thrown it up. Yeah. Like, I completely, like, I was legitimately, because, you know, I just came from, you know, just being the guy who just ran into shit and was just big ass, dumb ass that was wearing hats. But the hats thing got me, some sponsors and noticed.

And then when I started running good, I was like, all right, I could drop this. Sorry, I got this. Like, I don't know how it happened, but that's how it happened. And, but, like, I was, they put me on TV. I was like, I have to. I have to be on TV. I got to sell them. I don't know how to sell me, but this is working.

Yeah. But, you know, I just signed a cup. Like, everything was going good, and I was just like, all right, well, like, I kind of had that peptoe. I was like, this is my last shot to probably win anything NASCAR championship. I want to win something. And I was like, the last thing I want to do is hurt myself going forward. And I'll do whatever it takes to win this championship.

But, you know, I also don't want to, like, you know, ruin everything that, like, I had just, you know, kind of re-birthed, like, myself and my image a little bit. And, like, all I remember is just like,

oh, like, this guy's tweeting and this guy's, like, like, honestly, I was just like, Dale's getting, not, you know,

like, like, you know, I just, I remember that convo, you know, first time I really, like, met you in person. And I was just like,

I was just like, man, like, he's, like all these people that like I look up to like yeah like like believed I I turned a corner here yeah and now I'm just like now I'm like now I just made them look stupid one yeah one step forward two steps back and I'm just like and and one of my biggest regrets is just like um you know I needed it in the moment was just like now I look back at it

I was like yeah it was really stupid and everything but like I think what's what's you know what's the worst of it or the crime of it even more is just like I gave up I just quit I was so out of it and so mentally out of it, I gave up. That night. That night. We were supposed to pit, and I completely missed pit, right? Yeah. We were leading points.

We were going to win championship still. You know, you just wrecked the guy that had only shot to beat you. And I gave up. I completely quit. I just mentally was out of it. I just, like, if I could have just got out of the truck right there and just said, I've fucked up. And Al, niece, it took me, it took him eight months to come over

and get over it. Yeah. And, you know, it was just, and then I had to go race the cup car. Yeah. So I had to go walk back into the cup garage. And I've never been just more, I was so embarrassed that next day. You don't think about, you know, when you're in that car and in that moment, driving down into that turn, you don't think about how many people were paying attention,

you know, and then you don't think about, you know, what, what are not so much the repercussions, but you're going to face the music, right? You've got to get out and there'll be a camera. There'll be a microphone. There'll be questions. They'll be media. They might not find you that night, but they'll find you next week. And then, even on top of that, when you go back next year, you might not even be in that

freaking race, but they're going to be playing those replays. Well, they do? They still do. Yeah. Guess what might happen this weekend. This might happen. And you're like, I hate being. And, you know, and I think sometimes, too, that deters.

A driver like you and even me, it did me. Like, when I got in a mix-up with another guy and then they kept playing it on the media all week, I'm like, I'm never doing that again because this sucks. Yeah. Even though I need to be aggressive, even though I need to be that selfish. Like the best race car drivers are the ones that are selfish. That's why Joe Lugano, great guy out of the car, is good on the racetrack because when he races, he's a jerk. Yeah.

You know, he really is. and but you know if he's driving my car I'd love it but I couldn't do it because I didn't love what came with it you don't want to you know and Joey doesn't give you Joe's like I don't care I'm going to win races and championships and if you think I'm a

I don't care and so you know there's a tough balance to do to go through what you went through and know what to change and what not to change what to what to fix what to polish but not what to take out, right? And, you know, I think about Chastain. So, Ross, I don't know if you draw any parallels,

but Ross comes in. Ross has done some similar things in terms of busting his ass driving. I studied Ross for JD. Because I was, you know, we were at Nice. And my first time at Martinsville, I got on the front row, spawned me out. First corner.

Yeah. Just backed me right in the fence, got back up to fifth. spun me out again, and I left that racetrack saying, I will never, I will never, I'm not going to be the, like, guy that just gets beat around. Yeah. Especially when I have Ross in the shop that I'm just like, he annihilates everybody. Yeah.

They never give it back to him. Yeah. They don't do anything. Yeah. He did it this weekend. So Ross busted his ass, right? He had no, no real true financial backing similar to you. He drives for JD Motorsports.

literally driving anything he can drive. He drove Spire cars. Spire cars, premiums, yeah. And I mean, I remember Dirty Mo Media sponsored him at Darlington. We gave him $12,000, and they got to put new tires on a couple times, and they rode around in 30th and 33rd all night.

And Mike and all of our team listened on the radio and we're like, holy shit, we got like a whole new appreciation for like what that team's having to do. Yeah, for how hard they're... Right. Like they grind. They're not choosing to do that.

It's the only avenue they have. And so, you know, Ross comes up through, and he's a bulldog. You know, he's a killer. And so, you know, you push him around. He's coming back. And we experienced that race in the Xfinity Series when he's driving to JD because he would run 10th to 15th with that red car. And we'd be back there sometimes, and he'd beat the shit out of us.

And he's like that in the Cup series. but in the time that he's been in the Cup series, he's found some things that he needed to take out, but he's found some things he needed to leave in, right? And so we still get what we got this weekend, which we love. Now, I know Joey's not happy, and neither is in-house, but as a broadcaster and as a fan of NASCAR, I kind of like that there's a guy out there that's like, oh, yeah, fuck you.

Yeah. You know, I like that. I need a guy. have to. You got to have a couple guys like that. Yeah. I mean, the more the better. And so, I mean, there's a, do you look at, I guess you just, you just answered it.

You kind of look at Ross a little bit and understand like, yeah, of course I want to polish and get better and be a more all-around racer and get, you know, race craft, start the race, qualify well, race well, finish well. But I don't want to lose who's what's genuinely me. Yeah. And there are some things that are genuinely you that are going to be abrasive, that are going to rub people the wrong way, or not always be the thing that everybody loves, right? And hell, they'll earn heart-dealt with that. Yeah. All the greats had days where they left the track, and everybody was like, fuck that guy. Yeah.

You know? And so, you know, do you, I guess, I guess my question is, is, I've seen some of your social media comments or personal comments to the media when you go through this thin house deal. More recently, you've basically took in the stance of this is what you get. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm 22 now, right? I've raced for a long time. I think the biggest thing for me is like I realize that like there's certain things you just can't change. Like you're instinctly, you know, when I race, I don't half the time know what I'm doing. It's just autopilot.

You know, when I'm, you know, when I ran Chicago last week, we were qualifying and we qualified third, but we actually should have qualified like a 10th off SVG. I actually, the only corner I remember and like thought of just like I had a thought of how I'm going to approach this corner, I, I lost four and a half tens. I completely fucked up. So like, you know, a lot of times I go into the debrief after qualifying and, you know, when we qualify good, I'm just like, I don't know. or just like I think it was good. Yeah. I don't remember what I did. You know, or I, or I'm just like that I, I, I suck.

Like I'm the worst race car driver of all time. I completely f***ed that up. And they're like, P2, good job. I'm just like, oh, shit. Because like, the only thing that like, that clicks me out of that is just like when I fuck up, you know, or just like when I'm just, ah, that's not very good. You know, I'm never just like click out of that like autopilot flow state. I'm just like, oh, that's badass.

Yeah. If I do, I'm just like, I got to go back in. Like, I go back. But, you know, when you, you know, I think that's why for me, you know, it takes, it's taking me a long time to, you know, kind of adapt that because I'm trying to, like, change what I'm doing when I'm not thinking about it. You know, I'm not, it's not aware. Like, we, you know, we have code words of just, like, when they think I'm, like,

going to get ready to see red. Yeah. You know, they, they tell me. Like, we have co-words for everything now. Yeah. of just like, just to just click me out. Yeah, even for your emotional state. Yeah, it's just literally just that, like, you know, we, you know, I had a

a stint where I was just like being unproductive on the radio. And so they, you know, the code word was bubble goggles because they were going to make me wear these f***le goggles and look like a d'clock on the way home if I, if I was any more upprotective or just like was mouthing off to. Yeah. And after a few weeks, I kind of fixed it because they would just like, I'm just like, okay, yeah, you got it, man. Like, perfect. And, you know, anytime you hear Superman, that's when I'm getting ready to tease somebody up or just go drive bonsai this thing four wide or six wide because I just got, you know, I'm just, you know, just got used up or something happened.

So Tyler Green will just be like, Superman, relax, Superman. All get here, man. And, yeah, so we have a bunch of code words there that just kind of triggers. For that. Yeah. When you're racing at Charlotte at the 600 and having such a good night or you go to Nashville and you run second, do you feel like you're overachieving or are you feeling like that's what your team's

supposed to do? So how do, you know, I think the, the, me watching Spire go run second at Nashville, legit and then run as well as you did in the 600 as well. I mean, that was amazing. I'm like, they're overachieving. You're talented. I know you can drive a race car. But this team is doing shit

that I've never seen them do before. But inside the building, what's the attitude? I mean, ultimately, like, I feel like for our group, it's, for them, I think it's, like, they're like, holy fucking shit. But for me, I'm just like,

I mean, I'm the arrogant race car driver that's just like a, right? you know that's right you know like this is what I'm supposed to you know you know Nashville I'm running second and I'm just like I should have won you know like I would I don't know what I could have done I don't think there's anything I could have done like you know I've rewatch that race 17 000 times I don't know there's not a single thing I I gained a bunch of time on pit road that it actually jumped a six to second and that's how we finished second yep um you know I won pit entry I won pit exit and I run rolling time

and my crew won I mean we maximized everything compared to everybody we were around but Jeff started to have to get on me like he walked down and he's just like hey man can you take a look at that car you know

think how many times he's won a championship or he's won a championship before but just like he races for like Roger Penske you ever heard of him guy behind you here Dennyham when he's won't you know a ton races race for Joe Gibbs. You ever heard of him?

This is who you race for, you know? My dumb ass, you know, is just how he puts it. It's just like, you know, for him, like, that's how he just, like, clicks me out of just like, I know you want to be, like, the best, but he's just like, and he's just said verbatim, it's just like, dude, there's going to be a time where this ain't fun, where I'm going to have to expect you to win races, and I'm going to expect you to win championships or expect you to do this. He goes, right now, he's like, we have more 30th place finishes than anything. He's just like, just have fun.

Enjoy it. Like, get out, fucking smile. And I'm just like, fuck you, Jeff. Like, I want to win. But, like, that's our relationship. It's just like, is, you know, he is there, you know, when I qualify whatever, he's just like unacceptable. Can't believe you qualified fourth.

Yeah. You're going to rip that contract up right there. Like, he just has that smart-ass way to just be like, dude, you are doing, like, we are doing things that, like, I don't even think he would have ever imagined. He was a ton. I got to work with him on the radio once as a spotter, and he was a ton of fun. Kept the whole race, kept the whole team in a great attitude. That's how the, that's how the shop is. You know, they're all, they're all there because of him, really.

Like, they're all still there. They hire new people because of him. Like, just everything, you know, they, you know, I've only raced for him on the cup side, but, you know, just everybody that walks in. you know, they're his, you know, his, his, they're, he is their favorite owner

that they've ever raised for. So for him, and I think my group, I think they're all thinking they're overachieving. And for me, you know, I don't look at it like,

oh, I'm just, you know, I don't look at it either. Like, I ran second today because I've just put this thing on my fucking back

and Fred Flintstone this thing and put my shirt through the foreboard. Like, I'm just like, you know, I did, I did my job to get this race car good

from, start of 24 to now, and this is what we're doing. Yeah. That's kind of how I look at. Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel? Visit shop.durtymomedia.com. We're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show.

We'll put it on a t-shirt. Again, check it out at shop.dirtymowmedia.com. You live down here, majority of a year, nine, nine months, say, out of the year. You go back home? I go back home as much as I can. in the winter. You know, like Chicago, like there's a good opportunity. I could spend a day at home after, so I spent the day there.

When did you move down here? So I moved down here when I was 18. Okay. So how, you've been down here four years? I've been out here four years. In the same place? I lived, well, I lived in a hotel for six months. Lived in a hotel.

Lived in a hotel. What was that way? It was nice because it was first time moving away from mom. By yourself? by myself. In a hotel by yourself? Hotel by yourself. Where?

In Moorsville. In Moorsville. Exit 33. Yeah. The home to suites just lived right there. Okay. Six months. And, you know, I had a car that was getting ready to blow up.

It was my mom's Denali. Just rolling around. Yeah. And Mooresville, North Carolina. And my apartment wasn't going to be done for six months. That's where I lived. And I was going to be there. at the shop every day.

Your apartment? I had an apartment that I moved in Hawthorne Waterstone. You're there now? I have a house. You got a house now. I rent a house. You're renting. Rent a house.

Why are you renting? Because I bought a piece of property and I'm going to build. If I was able to own something, I wanted to build it. Where roughly is the property? Troutman is where my land is. Your land is by Troutman? I'm clearing it. I'm going to build a barnumium.

I want to build like 8,000 square foot shop. and townhouse on it and just move all my buddies in if I can. Kyle Busch, you got that one for sale out by my place. That one is too expensive. And I think if he found out I was... Sound like you're going to build the same thing. Well, I think if he found out I was buying it, the price would get a lot more to. He's trying to unload it.

So, I mean, it is way too expensive for me. If I was here like five, like maybe I can get away with it. But I would love to buy that one, but I'm just like, nah, it would just be so much more. meaningful if I build it. Who do you hang out with? Just a bunch of my high race buddies. Not anyone in the industry. Not any other racers. Nope. You have no other racer buddies.

Nope. None. There's not one guy that races truck, Exfinity, or Cup that you would call a friend. Nope. Not one. I've only hung out one time with any other driver. It was SVG and Bubba at his property one time. SVG and who? Bubba walls. One time.

So, but you don't? We don't, like, hang out. Like, it was just one time. Who do you see at the racetrack that says hi to you the most? I don't know. No drivers. No. When you go up on the platform and ride around on the...

Whoever I didn't run into last week. Like this week, I got on the podium and it was Bowman made a joke about how I was getting on the slow boat. Because they were all torn up and they're starting in the back and I was Qualifying Third. Slowboat. I just, I went to the float that had the least amount of drivers on it. And I was just like, all right, hi. Why did you go to the float that had the least amount of drivers? I was the last one.

I was last one there. But I just, I just know that I don't really talk to anybody. Why? Do you want to be friends with drivers or is it intentional? I mean, it's not like intentional or unintentional. It's just how it worked out. You know, like I don't go out. I don't drink.

Yeah. When you were racing short tracks, did you have friends that you? you raced with? No. No, not really. I mean, like, I had guys. You're incapable of making friends with people you race against. I just have, I just want to hang out with my crew guys.

When you raced in the truck series, did you have any kind of, like, not look, I'm not saying you got to go play golf with people. I'm just saying, did you have somebody that, like, when you were on a driver's intro stage, you more than likely went over and talked to them. Maybe Zane in trucks? Zane? Maybe. But he was going to Spire.

So like that was, but that was like, there you go. But like that was like twice, three times. I don't, I don't, I don't, I've never, I've never hung out with a driver

my whole time here. Yeah. I've never like hung out and just like, other than that one time. Yeah. You know, like, I don't go to the intro stage

and go, what's up man? Yeah. How's the kid? Like I, every now and again, like all just like, Noah,

he, they have their little group and they play video games. Like Connor Zillich and Jesse Love and all of that. I have, I have my buddies that. I have, I have my buddies that.

I play video games with on iraicing. I remember when I saw you the first time on eye racing. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember, like, somebody. I remember it well, so I'm curious. Where, what we were doing? We were running Atlanta in, like, it was maybe the archa car, the gen 4, and it was

right around when you had to put the steering ratio all the way up at old Atlanta. And I remember, like, you somehow, like, somehow we, you had, you PM me and just like, hey, like, how do I be fast at this? And so we got in Discord. for a second. I was just like, hey, you just turned the steering ratio up. And so you didn't. You ran the next race and you ran good. So, yeah, I just all. We don't turn the steering way ratio up anymore. Does that not help you keep the right front tire on?

I think it does, but it wasn't as like. It was a big deal back in. But yeah, just a bunch of my buddies, like some, like all my buddies come to come in to, you know, like Rockingham and all them. That's who I hang out with like, it's like Jordan Worth, Kevin McAdam, Sean Butler, Tyler, Neil, Lucas, Paul. Like we all run. I know those names. Oh yeah. So they, they basically, I told them, my house is open anytime they want to come.

So they're always rolling around. Nice. So yeah, that's why I hang out with almost every day. So that's cool because when I, when I look around in this building, there are multiple people that I met initially through Sim racing still in my life today. Like I will say I'll give you a hard time for not being friends with any of the other drivers But the sim racing community

Really had a massive impact Positive impact on my life And like a lot of my good good friends Are from that You know that community that I've known for now 20, 25 years So those friends that you just mentioned Will be your buddies for life

Yeah I just I think it's good for I mean a lot of my crew guys think it's great Like they think that's why we run good and we're as aggressive as we are just because like I'm not in the- Plus it keeps you out of trouble. Yeah, well, I'm just not in the motorhome life. Well, yeah, and if you weren't sim racing, you know, you might be at the, you know, you might be in big owls or something, you know.

I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't like what it turns people into. And, um, I'm just like, if I, if I have to rely on that to have a good time, I don't, I don't really need to be there. So, you know, I mean, I will drink, but like it, like, it's not like I we'll just never take a sip. Sure. I just, you know,

I just don't find that as, I don't find that as a good time. You're young. You got plenty of time. Right. Get in all that. All right, man. I've had fun talking to you.

No, I appreciate it. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. This is, you know, we've known each other for a while, and I've always enjoyed,

I've always enjoyed being around you because of your, you know, you're kind of unapologetic, but at the same time, you know you're trying to figure it out. You know you're trying to work through the maze of becoming a you know the total package and the driver that you want to be

you know and and I appreciate the I appreciate the honesty and transparency and in and allowed us to even talk to you about it man I mean sometimes these guys they get into these you know these incidents and and mistakes and and and and they don't want to they don't want to have any self-discovery or or or you know, nationalize themselves very much. But I appreciate you coming on the show and open it up to us a little bit. The, you know, the future of the sport will be, you know, the future of our sport will be in your hands, you and Connor Zillich and all these guys that are coming up through.

And it's going to be fun watching all that. I appreciate it. Develop over the next 10, 20 years. It's been fun so far. And, yeah, that's the biggest thing. It's just like, I mean, we deal with it. sponsors and everything too. It's just like I told them from the start is like, you know, it's sustainable

for me to be, you get, you get what you get here, you know, like, if you want me to switch, you're going to, we're just going to waste each other's times because you're going to figure out really quickly. I'm, I can't, I don't have a good poker face. I can't play the part. Yeah. Well, I think it's going to be fun watching you continue through the series over the next several years and you're, you know, not only you, but Spire and what Spire has become and could become in the future. and I think you play a massive role in that.

I know I don't want to short change McDowell because he's a talented driver and he brings a ton to the table, but for Spire to continue to, like, elevate their game, they got to have drivers like you and McDowell. And so it's, I think that they're, you know, I like, you know, again, I like McDowell and I think he brings a lot to the table,

but I think your upside as a prospect is exciting for Spire and drives that whole building, right, to like, hey, let's keep making these cars better because damn, you know, this kid could really take us to the promised land. Yeah. I mean, I never thought I would be, you know, I see all the rumors of, you know, I got to go here, go here to a bigger team and whatever, but like, for me, I'm just like, you know, I have a team that they kind of threw me the keys, you know, halfway through year one,

you know, per se. And, you know, they want to build this whole. company and shop and, you know, all these people and everything Jeff Dickerson in his life is risks from going on, you know, sleeping on couches to now doing what he did. Yeah. And still risking it all right of, you know, who he puts in this building. For him to want to build that around me is, you know, that there's so much value in that for me from confident side, but also too, just being able to, you know, make our cars go fast and dictate the directions it goes. Yeah. Just a couple of years ago, I was talking to Coyla Joy, and

we were talking about his career and I was like man spire's going to be that race team where it's hard today you know having to manage your expectations and say man 25th's a great day for us yeah it's hard to do that but you might I told him I said if you keep on digging and stick this out you're going to find yourself instead of looking over there and going man I'd love to be driving that car you're going to be in that car still with spire and um it's It's amazing to see that actually playing out where people look at your car and go, damn, I think. But that thing, that thing driving pretty good. Yeah, I mean, our relationship, obviously, Jeff is like, you know, Mr. H's step kid, right?

And, you know, how close they are. You know, it's, you know, for Hendrick Engine Shop and everything helping us out. But, like, you know, it's just crazy. Like, you know, there was a while up there that, you know, Michigan, it was just like, we were, we were, we were leaving. the 24 was second the five was third and um I think of 48 crash but the next one uh the nine was running good like it was just kind of just like us four up there and I was just like man it's pretty special right like mr. age came over to my car and Jeff and him are laughing and you know we're sitting there talking and and and for me it's just like you know it's just super cool like

like there's never been just like a man I wish I was in this car I wish you know I wish I could start this. It's, you know, for me, it's just always been, like, I just can't wait for everybody to want, you know, even the Hendrick guys sometimes are just like, how f*** is that thing passing us? Yeah. Where the fucking top dog of the group? Yeah.

And they're all nice about it, obviously. Sure. Everything, you know, they've been super complimentary, you know, all the way top down, you know, checking house and, you know, all the crew chiefs and everything. But, like, for me, I'm just like that, that's, that's very fulfilling. Absolutely. Yeah, I can definitely see that. I think that that'll continue. And that's the trick is to you can bounce off of anybody's cars, but don't bounce off of Ricks. That was Ross's mistake. That was Ross's mistake. That was Jeff. Jeff was very important. Jeff has told me that multiple times. He's just like, hey, I don't care what you do. You're not touching what these cars. But I was like, hold on. He's just like, hold on. They're not going to touch you either. I was just like, hold on. They're not going to touch you either. I was just like, I was like, all right. I was like, Jeff, I'll never make you make that phone call.

So, you know, we take care of each other. Yeah, pretty good. I bet. All right, man. Thank you, Carson. I appreciate it. Carson Hosevar on the Hill Jr. Download. All right, so that's a great conversation with Carson Hosevar.

One of the drivers in the Cup series today. And polarizing figures, been, you know, been polarizing, I think, since he got into the truck series. And appreciate him coming on and talking to us and being willing to really. you know, reflect a little bit on some of the not-so-finer moments. And, you know, it'll be interesting, I guess, to see just kind of how he evolves as a driver. And we made mention of, you know, Ross Chastain, and I see some parallels there in terms of Ross as an aggressive guy. And we like that about Ross.

And it's still in there, right? But Ross has found ways to like, hey, you know, not, he's found ways to, not, you not make things more difficult for him when it's not necessary. And so, you know, I think, I think Hosevar will do the same thing over the course of time. Maybe it might take him longer because he's much younger than Ross Chastain was when Ross got his opportunity to finally get into a great cup ride. And so, you know, I think Hosevar's got more mistakes to make. And I think he would probably agree.

And I think there'll be more days where we go, damn, dude, what to hell? And that's okay. And, you know, the process will sort itself out, and he will hopefully, you know, clean up the things that need to be clean up and leave the good parts that or the more compelling, you know, parts that do make him polarizing at times. Because I think it's great, you know, for a broadcaster or a fan of the sport, which is my perspective today, I think it's great to have people that are in the field, that are going to push those buttons.

And, you know, I look at the drivers and the field of drivers in the Cup Series today as a cast. You know, for any kind of a movie or any kind of a show or whatever it may be, that cast has to be correct and you need all types of personalities. And so he's one of those guys that's going to fill in that bucket of the, you know, kind of the wild card. the one that may be unpredictable,

the guy you've got to be careful around. We need those guys in the field. And he can still be that guy and be fast, win races, win championships. And so we'll see how all that plays out. But he's part of the future. It's a lot of incredible names on that list, talented drivers that are coming up through the truck series,

the Xfinity series, now in the Cubs series, that are going to be part of this sport for the next couple of decades. decades. And so, yeah, it'll be fun to see all that play out. Thanks for, thank him for coming through and telling us a little bit about his upbringing and kind of who he is at the core and what his path here was all about. And let's get to the white flag. White flag. All right. So the tear down was available on Twitter and YouTube live after the race on Sunday. And appreciate Jeff Gluck and Jordan for giving us all that. great insight post Chicago. And then Action is Detimental with Denny Hamlin came out as well.

Denny came home and gave us his take on the Bowman Bubba Incident and everything else that he experienced throughout the weekend at Chicago. TJ and I released our Tuesday show. Dirty Air, Door Bumper Clear is available as well. They had Eric Jones as their guest this week. And Herm and Schrader, Speed Street, all the usual great kids. content tomorrow. Bless Your Heart with my wife.

And then finally, last but not least, the final episode of the six-episode series, Becoming Earnhardt, comes out Sunday. The look at the 1980 championship season. You can go back and listen to the first season, 1979, and now this new six-episode 1980 season.

The team's been hard at work, and it's beautiful stuff, man. I'm really proud of it. Appreciate everybody listening this week, and we'll see you tomorrow for Bless Your Heart right here in the Dirtymoe Media Studio. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.