The Dale Jr. Download - Dario Franchitti: Why He Almost Lost His Love For Racing

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with one of the most accomplished open-wheel racers in history, three-time Indianapolis 500 winner Dario Franchitti. After elevating through the karting ranks of Scotland and taking on the lower formula divisions in Europe, Dario set his sights on the US racing scene, specifically the Championship Auto Racing Teams series. Once stateside, Dario explains his journey wasn’t easy, and he initially struggled until joining Barry Green’s organization. Dario would have a breakout year in 2007, winning his first Indianapolis 500 and the IndyCar Series championship, but through all the success, he felt his motivation waning, and he was ready for the next challenge. The next challenge came in an unlikely form: NASCAR. Through a deal with Chip Ganassi, Dario would plunge into the world of stock car racing with both feet, taking on the Cup grid in 2008 full-time. The endeavor would be ill-fated, and before long, Dario was back behind the wheel of an IndyCar, where he began a dynasty championship run. This incredible in-depth interview dives deep into the heartbreak of losing loved ones in motorsports, the severity of head injuries, and the difficulty of walking away from competitive racing. Watch on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You had this massive crash and suffered another concussion, a lot of fractures, two spinal fractures. You had to eventually hear from your doctors that you didn't need to be driving. You had that taken from you. You had someone telling you what you were going to do for the first time in your life. I was alive, so I was okay. Honestly, I was so happy to be alive. The sky was blue or the grass was greener. The following is a production of Dirtymoe Media.

You're Dale Jr. Should I say it? It's Dale Jr. podcast. I got to say it. Hey, everybody. It's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. And we got a great guest for you today as we are in the Arby's studio. And I want to mention before we get going the Arby's new meat in three box right here it is,

get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meats. I want to thank them for being able to bring us a great guest, Dario Frankeedy. was supposed to be in the studio, supposed to come in here. There was a storm up north. He's in New York City and could not get here, but asked if he could do it remotely. So, hey, we've put in the effort to prepare for Dario, excited about what he's going to do this weekend at St. Pete in the Truck Series, and I can't wait to talk to him about how that deal

come together. He's also a champion, Daytona 500 winner. He actually had some unfortunate experiences with head injuries similar to mine that I'm aware of and want to dive into all of that. We're going to get into it. Let's bring him on. Dario Frankeety on the Dale Jr. Download. All right, so Dario Frankiti on the Dale Jr. download, he is coming remote because of the

weather up north. We're supposed to be in the studio today, which we miss not having you here, Dario, but thankful that you're able to tune in and talk to us, how you doing? Doing well. Thank you. What does it they say? A longtime listener, first time caller? Yeah, that's perfect.

So yeah, how is the weather up there? Well, the sun is shining right now, but we had a couple of interesting days and it just kept snowing and snowing. And yeah, so that was a bit of a shock. So sorry, I can't be in the studio, but it's good to chat anyway. It is.

You're going to race in the truck series at St. Pete this weekend is the weather going to affect your ability to get in there and do all the things you need to do? No, no, we're all good. I'm going to get down there tomorrow morning, just in case. Have you had the chance to get in a sim or how's your preparation being? I got in the sim.

And you and I are similar ages. I don't know how you get on with the sim. Not very good. No, I suck. Yeah. You know, static sim, I'm okay, but I suck. I went into the Toyota Sim up in, I think it's Salisbury. I did two laps of Sebring where we were testing the truck later that week.

I stopped. I said, okay, let's try St. Pete. I did one lap of St. Pete, and I got out and went to lunch. It didn't go well. It was not a good time. Tell us what St. Pete is like. I'm not very familiar. What kind of racetrack is that?

So half of its airfield. You've got the front stretch, this big, wide breaking zone into turn one. And then it gets into the city streets of St. Pete. And it's tight, it's narrow, particularly turns four, and then on for most of the rest of the lap. So I actually just feed the truck down through those walls and sort of try and get it inch perfect is going to be, I think, really a challenge,

especially my lack of familiarity with it. You know, how close is that right front fender? How close is that to the wall? And the problem is when you get it too close, you're going to bounce off it and then you've got to try and avoid the wall on the exit. So yeah, it's, it'll be, I think it'll be a good race. I think it's particularly up there in a term one.

I think you're going to see some action. Yeah, 52 years old, four-time winner of the IndyCar Championship, three-time Indy 500 winner. What has your, you retired at the end of, let's see, 2013 or 14? Yeah, 13, yeah. And so what have you driven in the past, you know, decade? So I guess you and I obviously went through. a similar thing, I think, with the concussions and the head injuries.

And so I stopped racing everything at the end of 13. The doctor said, no, no more. And so I would go to places like Goodwood and I'd demonstrate these old cars and actually some new ones too up the hill at the festival of speed. And I really enjoyed the act to drive in something again. 2019 showed up and I decided I said I want to go racing again

and so I talked to the doctors I did a good sales job on the doctors managed to convince them that I should do that Ellie my wife said yeah yeah whatever you want to do my mother wasn't quite so happy

shall we say but anyway so I started racing old cars you know the 60s Ferraris Shelby Cobra's Gt 40 you know Jimmy and I shared and my brother Marino shared a Gt40 at Spa. And then I started to get into sort of slightly more modern stuff again, you know, the last couple of years.

So it's been kind of a gradual thing. I was quite happy being retired those first couple of years. Yeah. And then, you know, I don't know if you experienced the same thing, but when I was competing, it was so much about the result and trying to get the result and everything that went into that and the pressure. whether that was from me or from outside trying to make it happen, that actually the driving, the car wasn't the, it wasn't the fun bit.

And with all this stuff I did since retirement, I realized I love driving cars. I love driving racing cars. I love the act of trying to make a vehicle go quickly around the circuit. So hence the fact we find ourselves here. Yeah, I was very comfortable and happy with my decision to quit. and obviously probably similar to you, the injuries and everything that I experienced to get better and all that was fresh, right? And you're like, all right, yep, I'm good to put this behind me.

And as I got further away from that decision, I started feeling more homesick to it. You know, more, I missed it more and more. It didn't get easier. It got harder. And I was starting to look at my age and going, man, I still got a little. I could do. Surely I could go play here. I can go play there. But you have to be selective when you say. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the chances of me getting in anything on an oval or non-existent. It's just not, it's never going to happen. You know, I'd love to try an indie car again. But the physical demands of that, probably, you know, even just to go somewhat quickly, you've got to be so fit.

and I wouldn't want to get in that and do a half-ass job. But for us, it's interesting. I've been thinking a lot about this because people are asking, why are you doing this? But for racing drivers, we don't have a, whatever you're disciplined, we don't have a seniors tour, tennis, golf. Exactly right. Right?

And I think those guys can go out and have some fun and less pressure and you see them all joking around. And we don't have that. So we have to kind of create our own opportunities to go and have fun. you know, again, going back to the historic side of things, Goodwood is so much fun to do that, so much fun to race there. And you've got guys like, your guys is my age, guys younger than me, but then you've got guys like Steve Soper,

who's one of the great touring car drivers of the world. Steve's in his mid-70s now. He still goes out there and he's still as hard to beat. So you've got to, as I say, you've got to make your own opportunities to go out and drive race cars. Yeah. So how did you find your interest in race cars? racing. I know your family was involved in it. Your dad, George, was an amateur racer. What is your

first memories? My first memories were sitting, twofold, sitting in front of the TV watching the 1978 Formula One World Championship that Mario Andretti won, sitting with my dad watching that. Those are still my favorite Formula One cars to this day, that era. And then going to the track with him. And I was actually talking to him about it yesterday, just going to the track and watching him do it and getting in the car and just sitting and, you know, pretending to drive it. And it all sort of stemmed from there. And I had this little go-cart that actually he found again. And him and my mum had it restored. He restored it. Yeah, for my 40th birthday. So it all started there. And I started racing when I was 10. And, um,

Actually, I raced motorbikes for a minute before that, but I really sucked at that. I was terrible. And then I got in a go-kart. I won my first race, and it felt like home from the first moment. You know, what was your experience like once you got in go-carts? I mean, you know, where are you living? Where are you competing? We were living in Scotland.

My first races were in Scotland, but pretty quickly, I guess my dad has. some sort of pretty big ambitions there because straight away we headed south and to get the more competition you had to go to England and we would every weekend we'd head off straight after school on a Friday sometimes before school finished that caused some some issues and then we you know he would we'd go down there him and some of his buddies would would mechanic on the cart and you know I'd race over the weekend see how the result went and then we'd we'd turn around and we go home and he'd I'd go to, we'd park, park up whatever time in the Monday morning, early hours. And then he would, he'd go to work. And I'd go to, I'd go to school that next day,

despite trying to find every excuse I could to get out of it. Yeah. And that was it until I was, until I was 16. And then I was going to go race cars the following season. So my dad said, right, you're going to go learn a bit about this. So I went with, The team was a team called David Leslie Racing. And two of the guys that were on the same journey as me, David Colford and Alan McNish, they drove for the same team in earlier years. Anyway, I went there and I would clean the car.

I'd put the wheels on it. A couple of times, I left the wheels slack. I was not the best mechanic. But that was my way of learning. And then I went racing cars in the following season, which was 1991. How did that go? That was good. I won the championship, which thank God I did

because my parents had remortgaged the house and it basically spent everything they had on that first season. Won the championship at the end of the season. My dad was like, you know, that's it. That's, I don't, I can't do anymore. And fortunately for me, Jackie Stewart had a team with his son Paul, called Paul Stewart Racing. And they had watched, they were racing

and other formulas over the same weekends and bigger classes, Jackie had seen me race and said, well, we should probably test that kid. And they said, where's he from? He said, he's from Scotland. How can he be from Scotland when his name's Dario Frankeety? So at one point, Jackie was going to change my name. Anyway, Jackie, he really was.

So Jackie shows up, Jackie said, I'll find the money, you drive the car and I'll teach you. And that was three years with Paul Stewart racing, where, you know, I, every day was a school day with Jackie. Every day, still a school day with Jackie. He's just incredible. And he taught me so much. And I say it a lot.

But without him, my parents, absolutely. And without Jackie as well, I'm not sitting here today. Definitely not. Would you say that your, you know, obviously your goals and ambitions are F1 at this point? and I think, you know, take us through the process of sort of understanding where, how you would eventually get steered toward the US. Yeah, definitely. My goal was Formula One.

You know, I'd watch the Indy 500 and I would read the magazine in the UK called Autosport. And it was our internet back then. That's how you found out what was going on in the sport. And I would read about F1, about IndyCar. But F1 was really it. And when I did Formula 3, Formula 3 is sort of the two steps below F1. And I was, I did have one season. And it didn't go well.

I think I finished fourth in the championship. But I won the first race and then my teammate proceeded to win 14 races or something. I think you'll be no Jan Magnuson. Yes. Yeah, absolutely blew my doors off. So at the end of that season, it was looking. I was looking at another year of Formula 3, and I really didn't want to do it. Didn't enjoy the cars, didn't, it just wasn't great.

So I went, Mercedes asked me to come to test the DTM car, which at the time, they were F1 cars with bodies on them. So I tested this thing, and it blew my mind. The car blew my mind. I just loved everything about it. And I thought Mercedes at the time they were supplying engines to McLaren, I thought, this might be a good way to make this happen. So I signed the deal to go to Mercedes and I did DTM for a couple of years. Absolutely loved it.

I loved driving the cars. Met some great people, got to test the McLaren F1 car. That would eventually lead to an offer to become the test driver at McLaren, but I'd already committed to do IndyCar. So basically, at the end of the two years of DTM, the championship shut down because they were spending so much money on it. It was ridiculous. And I was at the Mercedes end of year party.

And I sat next to a man called Paul Morgan. And Paul was one of the partners in Ilmore. And they built the Formula One engines, the IndyCar engines. They built the NASCAR truck engines and the Chevy Indycar engines. Anyway, Paul said, what are you going to do next year? I said, oh, I'd love to go to America. You know, the F1 thing's not looking like it's going to open up. Jan Magnuson came over and raced a couple of races in an indie car he said

and he came back and said you've got to do this it's amazing so I said to Paul I'd love to do that he said well let me work on it and January of 97 he phoned he said right Carl Hogan's going to call you he's going to invite you to test the car if you test the car and it goes well you're you're in for the season and that's it was as simple as that's how I got to to the US. Just a great man, just wanted to help me out. And he put all the pieces in place for me to come to America.

Yeah, apparently Jackie Stewart was still influential, sending a letter of recommendation to Carl, supporting the idea. What did you know about, well, I guess, you know, this is one of the things I always enjoy. When I go, even today, when I get a chance to get into the IndyCar ecosystem,

system, the diversity of personalities. You know, you have drivers from all over the world with different ideals on racing and how racing is supposed to happen. And it's so much fun trying to. So in NASCAR, we do come from different disciplines in terms of dirt or sprint cars and short track stock cars. But the code of conduct on the track is relatively known. And everyone considers to follow a similar code in IndyCar.

Guys come from all over the world and codes are different. You know, what a block is, what defending your position is. All those things are differently interpreted by each driver. And I see that play out in IndyCar all the time. What was your, you know, expectation coming over to the United States about racing, about what life would be like, right? I mean, because it's a massive shift to make that change. You're basically going to the other side of the world

and completely uprooting everything that you're familiar with and everything you know. Absolutely right. And I came from that cutthroat European sort of school. I mean, it really was. It was a school. I mean, I had a great education from Jackie, but my teammate, DTM is a man called Bern Schneider.

And he was the god of DTM. You know, he won all this stuff. And when I went to the team, his team, he put his arm around me, he said, right, if you want to learn, I'll teach you. And I was his wingman for two years, and he taught me everything. It taught me how to be a good teammate,

taught me just at the next stage of my education. But the biggest thing for me was I'd never been on an oval. So I show up at Homestead for my first spring training, the first sort of indie car group test. And I walk out to the wall, and I stand at the wall, and Gilles de Ferren's going past, and he was in the Valvaline car at the time.

Derek Walker's valvlin car, and I knew Jeal very well from my Paul Stuart racing days. So this thing goes past, and it was the old homestead, the old four-corner homestead. It goes past, I thought, okay, no big deal. He goes past again, I was like,

I've got this, that's, no big deal. The next lap he goes past, and he's at full pelt. He was bedding in his brakes before that. I didn't realize it. When he went past, I went white, and I thought, holy smokes, what have I?

what have I got myself into? And that was the biggest difficulty, I think, was learning ovals. But then one of the things, I don't know if it's the same in NASCAR, but when kids come up, guys like Rick Mears would say, I got

an invitation to come and sit with Rick Mears and talk about oval driving. And he's like, anytime you need to help, you come and see me. I mean, that didn't happen in Europe, unless you were with, you know, with a team with Jackie, for instance. So that people like him doing that for me, that was a big, big help. Hey, everybody.

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you land the ride running full season in 1997. Your best finish of the year was ninth at Service Paradise. So, I mean, it wasn't a, it wasn't like an automatic success story out of the gate. I crashed a law. I crashed a lot The team were a little disorganized

Shall we say It was just Yeah The good thing was we were quick Second half of the year We were quick I was on Poland, Toronto And I sort of

By mid-season There was offers from From Rahal There was offers to stay at Hogan There was I guess there was a potential Penske seat Which I never got to the bottom Of if it was actually true or not

There was actually a Penskees seat seat. But then there was the team Green seat. And I sort of met all the different owners. But at the time, the Chip Ganassi team, the target team were smoking everybody. It was an Ardi and Vassar. They had Honda,

Rainard, Firestone. That was their combination. And Barry Green had Honda, Raynard, Firestone. And I was shocked, first of all, after a pretty average first season that these guys wanted me to drive the car. But I got a really good feeling from Barry

the people who worked for him. And so I signed the deal at Laguna Seca. And I never looked back. That was one of the best deals I think I ever did. It was a little awkward because as I left his hotel room from signing the deal, I get an elevator, it goes to the ground floor, the doors open. And Parker Johnstone, who was the guy driving the car that year,

was standing there. Hey, buddy. Oh, crap. Yep. You would get in that car and immediately start to show success, getting a runner-up finish at the Long Beach race in 98, and then picking up the first series win at Road America. The first Scottish champ car winner since Jim Clark,

which is pretty awesome. Jim Clark was a badass. Yes, he was. You got wins at Vancouver, Houston, third in the season points. You signed an extension. Well, I imagine after that first year you had even more interest. Yeah, there was definitely interest, but it was one of those situations I liked where it was. It was very clear.

But you had interest outside of IndyCar. Oh, yeah. Well, that was sort of, there was some F1 interest, yeah. And that came more sort of towards the 2000 season. But a lot between then and then, Dale, a lot went on, 99th season. And, you know, I thought, was an ardi going off to F1, I thought, here we go. We can, we got this, you know, they've got a good chance at this championship. And then this guy called on Pablo Montoya showed up.

And he really ruined my plans. So, you know, 99 was a great season. And, you know, Monty and I were wheel to wheel all season. And we had a crack in race to the title. But then, you know, unfortunately, the last race, Greg Moore, my great friend dies. And honestly, at that point, I sort of thought, oh, do I really want to do this anymore?

My love of racing, really? Yeah, man. It really went down. And then the next time I got in the car, I had a huge accident at Homestead. And I broke the pelvis. My head hit, actually, the helmet hit the wall. And the damage I did there, I still have

issues today from that from that accident in 2000 So what type of issues You know just all this sort of the The stuff that goes with a big brain injury The stuff that maybe you So that was one of your first head injuries Oh my God So yeah

Yeah You know not similar But I you know when I lost my dad I was you know Trying to figure out what I wanted to do But my I wanted to, I needed to be at the racetrack because that's where all the people I knew were and I didn't want to be alone, you know.

And so I didn't experience what you did losing a friend. And so tell me, I guess, about the, tell me about the processing of emotion. You know, you've fallen out of love with racing and now you've got to figure out whether you want to continue and how do you get that love back, that passion back? first of all I think by the way the way you handled that with losing your dad I was I was in the US by that point and I was in awe was absolutely in awe of of what you did and how you did it and the pressures you were under and it was it was something to watch from a distance something so impressive so hats off to you man appreciate it so with Greg it was um yeah I just you know the first time that I'd really happen

happened, you know, to death in the sport. And it was my, it was my best friend. And I just thought, I don't, not sure I want to do it. I don't think I've got the love for it anymore. I think a telling sign is I have one indie car in my, my garage at home. And it's the car from the race before he died. That was the last, that was honestly the last time it was just properly fun. It was absolutely just for the love of driving, right? It was, life was different after, after he died. Then the next, so Barry Green, this conversation with Barry Green went something like,

Barry, I don't know if I can do this. I need to go, and I need to go think about this if I want to do it. And at the time, those cars were really dangerous. I mean, they were, they were, you know, were getting hurt a lot, all that sort of stuff. And so I went away and I went away for a few, few months. And Barry said, just, when you're ready, just come back. And then we had a conversation is like, look, spring training's coming here. You need to get in the car if you're going to do it.

So I got in the car. I had the suspension failure. Literally the next time I got in the car, suspension failure, hit the wall, broke my pelvis, smashed my head in. And from that point, I did the race about three weeks later with a broken pelvis, which I don't recommend. My gosh. Oh man, when they dropped the thing off, the jacks and it hit the floor. Not good. Yeah. Yeah, that hurt.

So, and honestly, deal for a long time, I lost the love of the sport. And I did it because I didn't know anything else to do. I wonder with that injury and everything you could have, you could have, how comfortable would have you been to have said, let me take a step back here. Let me, I need some time, you know, to heal.

You know, and that gives your time, maybe you're, you know, personally taking some time off the heel, but you're also giving yourself some time to get your mental, you know, emotions, get it figured out, really what you want to do. I mean, how, were you, if you leave that seat, do you have it when you come back? That's a difficult question, right? And that's why, you know, drivers get in with all bits hanging off. You know, I drove for the broken back in 2003 because I didn't want, you know, I was out of the car for a few race. I didn't want somebody else taking my ride.

So in hindsight, and what we know now and what we've gone through with some of the head injury stuff and how it's treated now, it's a lot different than it was 25 years ago. So I probably should have done that, but I didn't. I just kept charging on. And it took a long time. It probably took five or six years to sort of feel somewhat like my old self. Yeah. And then the sort of the success started coming again.

and the fun of driving came a bit back and actually just the joy in life was coming back too so that was kind of it just took time. Yeah, I imagine you didn't know it at the time but I bet the head injury, you know, that it's hard to explain to people that have never went through this but you mentioned it, you know, you didn't feel like yourself, you know, and maybe that was, that's also playing.

with your anxieties, emotions and all those things unknowingly, right? You don't even realize it's affecting you. I've talked to drivers. You know, I've went through, we both went through head injuries, but I've also talked to other drivers that drove through those type of injuries,

and they'll be like, yeah, I was six months, I wasn't who I know I am, you know. And, you know, with having such a severe injury in 2000, and I imagine that that might have been playing a role, I guess, in your physical or your mental state. Oh, massively. Massively. And I said to my brother, I thought years later,

because at the time you don't want to sort of admit all this stuff, I said to my own. I said, it changed my personality. Yeah. I became a lot more serious. And yeah, it's just part of sort of the stuff you've got to deal with. but because you've not got a broken arm or a broken leg or look, he knows. You look normal.

I know, I would tell, so I would, I look completely fine, but I would stand up and turn and to walk out a door and I would have to grab the table or I felt it, right? Any kind of a pivot or of movement of the axis of the head, I felt, I knew that something was wrong and I would say to my friend, man, did you see anything? I felt this, I felt, did you see me kind of lose my balance? And they're like, yeah, no, you look normal, didn't see anything.

And I'm like, it's so frustrating because everybody's looking at you and they're like, you should be in the car. You look perfectly fine. You should, why aren't you in the car? Why are you not in the car? Why are you out a month, two months, whatever, you know? Come on, come on, man, toughen up. Let's go.

Yeah. So you, you know, success starts coming back and then you want to race stock cars. You know, how did that happen? Who talked to you into that? What did you experience or see that made you go, I got to get into that. I'd need to try that. That was Ganesi's fault. That was Chip's fault.

So I actually, at the end of 06, we nearly did a deal for me to go there in 07. I'm glad we didn't because I won my first 500. championship for the Andretti Green team as it was at the time. But Chip and I went some ways down the road on doing that. And then Monty and Montoya came in and did the deal. But I'll tell you my thinking. It was so obviously every driver, they want to win the 500. So I finally win the 500.

I'm up front. I'm looking good for the championship. But the 500 was such a big deal. I thought I've achieved my goals. And I could feel my motivation just starting to just tail off a bit. And I thought I need the new challenge. What is that new challenge? And then Chip started talking again about doing stock cars, about doing NASCAR.

And I did it. I signed it. I'd been to one NASCAR race, I think. I went with Richard Childress to Texas. that was the only experience. I'd never driven a NASCAR vehicle, all that stuff. I did this deal, completely ignorant

of what it took. I didn't really talk to any of you guys and I should have reached out to you to Jimmy. To Jimmy, yeah. Just test a bloody car. You know, my great friend Scott Borsetta, I didn't know him

in 2007 and he always says, I wish we'd known each other because I'd have taken you to the fairgrounds in Nashville, I'd have put you in one of my trucks, we got you some reps, help you understand what you were doing. And, yeah, I mean, I can look back and see at the time it was crap, because there was those COT things. Oh, yeah.

You know, probably the most un-indy-car-like thing. But it was a culture shock. It was hard. It was, you know, everything I'd learned actually put me further back than zero just from a starting point. And, you know, it was quite shocking. Why would you want to risk? So you had won your a championship.

Why would you, you know, I'm trying to understand, like you're risking your financial stability, right? Was that ever, that never was a motivating factor for you to like continue on this path of financial success that you were having by winning a championship, by being a championship driver? I got off for a pretty good deal as well. Coming to stock car racing. But again, that's the, I think, the difficulty

from the position I was in. I should have gone and done, I guess it was nationwide at the time. It'd become from the Bush series to Nationman. I probably should have gone and done that for a year or two. Was there anything behind your health in this decision? no a lot of people say I had two big flips that year actually within six days of each other

but it wasn't anything to do with that I just I've got to be 100% in my motivation's got to be right there and I could feel it tail and off deal and I just thought I need to try something different whether that was going to be sports cars or NASCAR so I wish I'd done it differently but I'm not I'm not upset at all in the fact I did it or how it ended up because it put me in such a better

place when all the various things came together for going back to IndyCar. Well, you made an ARCA race debut in 07. You ran the last four races in the nationwide series at the back in 07. You signed this multi-year contract with Gannasi for 08, beginning there. You win the 24 hours of Daytona with Juan and Scott Pruy. and Mimo, you ran 10th in the opener in the Arka Race at Daytona, and you replaced Davis-Dremie in the cup car driving number 40. Attempting 14 races, your best finish came in Martinsville,

the most non-indic car type race track on the circuit. 24th? Yeah, 22nd, actually. It's 22nd. But, you know, the car tomorrow was here, probably the most difficult or unfun race car that NASCAR has ever had. And you struggled. Ultimately, this car would shut down in July, and you had more nationwide series races in 2008. Sixth in Las Vegas, fifth at Watkins Glen.

And then you broke your ankle at Talldega. that was that that was the end of the stock car story yeah you know I'd gone to you know when the when the when the cup team shut down I was sort of doing a race by race thing

in the nationwide car and I got on so much better with that car you know qualified on pole at the glen in the in the nationwide car Jimmy was in that race a bunch of proper proper drivers so I was I was proud of that but then I went to Bristol and I think I qualified

on the front row and I ran up front all night. I was like, I'm getting the hang of this day. But then it all changed. I was, I tested at Richmond, I think, and I was going to do the Richmond race, but then I went to Detroit to the IndyCar race and

I was going there to, actually to watch my brother racing sports cars. I had no interest in going back to IndyCar. And I'm done. I really, I was like, I've done it. And then I remember standing watching Scott Dix and go through turn one and two in Detroit. And I just thought, oh, I want to drive one of them again.

I'd been lying to myself, basically. And I, yeah, so I completely by chance, I sat down with Mike Hull from Gannasi, next to managing director there. And we sat on the tail lift of one of the trucks. And he said, what's going on? And I said, you know, I thought I didn't want to race Indy car anymore, but I saw the cars. I felt, oh, I really want to do it, but all the good stuff's gone, Mike, and I don't want to drive at the back of the field. I'm not going to get in a bad car. And he said, well, not so fast.

Dan Weldon's just told us this morning that he's leaving. So we've got an open seat. Oh, wow. Yeah. Let me go talk to Chip. So Chip and I negotiated my contract standing behind Dixon's timing stand in Pit Lane. And six o'clock the next morning. We had a assigned deal. Wow. And that was it. So, you know, you've got this opportunity to return and, and race, you know, you're racing for Chip, the same guy that you'd been messing with the stock cars for. Tell us what kind of guy he is. I mean, I think I, I've absolutely enjoyed every moment I've ever spent around Chip Canassie, fun dude, good, you know, hard, at the heart, at his heart, he's a racer, understands what it, what it, what it,

takes to go fast. But I would be curious just to your opinion and your experiences. To me, Chip NASCAR team owner was different than Chip IndyCar team owner. He, in NASCAR, he was trying to build

the organization. And IndyCar, he was the organization to beat. Him and Roger had this sort of, and have had for decades this competition. But Chip to me, as this talk team owner first of all he puts the right people in position

to do the job he gives you the tools to do the job whether that's the financial tools whether that's the technical stuff whether that's the people and then he expects you to go do it and he wants results but he's very loyal

you've seen a lot of people in the team I've been there for 25 plus years And, you know, I've, I work with a team as an advisor on the IndyCar side. And he, you know, as you said, he's a racer. He wants to win. You know, he always says every start of every season. And every race, what sorts are two goals? Win the Indy 500, win the championship.

He's there to win. And, you know, but he doesn't suffer fools gladly. He's got no time for BS. And, but as a, as a person, as a human, if you're in trouble, ships the guy you want on your side. And that's for those drivers, for anybody in his organization, for his friends, for people, he kind of half-nose in the paddock. He's that guy who'll get stuff done if you're in trouble and whatever that may look like and medical trouble, whatever he's, he's, there's a soft, there's a soft center to that hard

shell. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've always I hate that I never got a chance to like, I don't know, race with him, but we miss him in the NASCAR ecosystem. You know, you got back in the car and you got back to your winning ways. 2011, you had four wins. You'd win the championship. But that was a difficult moment as well for the series and for motor sports in general. Las Vegas when we lost Dan Weldon. I had gotten to know Dan a little bit through the nationwide or the National Guard

relationship. We both were sponsored by them at one point. And I got to spend some time with him a little bit at Indy. And that was just a terrifying experience, I think, for everybody in such a horrible, horrible crash. How, you know, how was that, how did that affect? That's, you know, we're getting toward, you know, just a few years later when you would decide yourself to step out of the car. Motorsports is inherently dangerous and there's no way to entirely eradicate that from no matter what discipline it is.

There's always going to be some dangers. How did that crash and Dan losing his life there affect you personally? Yeah, you know, that had been this since we had those conversations. in Detroit, there'd been this great period of success, the three championships on the bounds, with Chip, and, you know, it had, I'd gone into that, that situation as Scott Dixon's teammate,

thinking, I just don't want to embarrass myself because I knew Scott, Scott was at the top of his game, man. Yeah, he'd won the 08 championship. I like to tell him he'd won that because I was in NASCAR at the time, but I'm not going to tell you what he says but he so the fact I was able to win those three championships with him and in the same equipment

and we came close trust me it could have been either of us but I was able to get the job done it was one of those wonderful periods in life and we would say and Chip would say enjoy it because these things don't last forever and you know we went into that that 2011 final in Vegas we should never have been racing there

which was a conversation we'd had before we showed up with indie cars are just they're not suited to that track but I was I was a lot more what's the word mature world weary I'd seen a lot more in life

when Dan had his accident you know I'd known Dan since he was six years old. And, you know, we were, we had, we were very close at one point. We had a couple of, what's the words, couple of discussions when we kind of fell out for a minute, a few years before. But we were in a really good place. We were back to being friends, which I loved. And the, you know, I've got this funny feeling here. It's just the, that whole situation was so unnecessary. And, yeah interestingly I didn't think of stepping out of the car though

again I was in a much different place in my life and I was a lot maybe mentally tougher than I had been when Greg died and I was able to just get back and and get on with it and put it out of my mind but it's um yeah that's it's that was shocking and we all We all fell about one. As a casual fan of IndyCar, I don't understand all the intricacies and don't get into the weeds of the series and enough to know as much as you, but about where the cars should and shouldn't race. There's, you know, there was debate. There was that opinion that you shared about Vegas that a lot of people have.

There was, again, some tough moments at Pocono, another equally dangerous place for Indy cars to be racing. There's some great memories of IndyCar racing at places like Texas World Speedway in Michigan. You know, where is the line? Is there a line? Is it an absolute definitive sort of broad? break between where you can take these cars and where you can't, how would you maybe explain that to somebody like me of like, what's where,

where's the threshold of, we don't need to, this is the type of track we shouldn't be at. Our cars aren't designed to be racing here. And what tracks are, you know, because fans, when I ever,

you know, having dipped my toe in the indie car world a little bit through the work with NBC and so forth, I would ever mention Michigan and they would go, oh gosh, yes, let's go back to Michigan. All the fans really miss, you know, the 80s and 90s in Michigan. But the cars are different these days. And, you know, so where's your take on all that? I think it's the cars, but also the regulations, you know, the horsepower against the drag is, I think is a, that's kind of the part of the equation too and the tires and the way that will work.

But the problem of Vegas for me is you could just run round wide open. I remember putting 400 pounds of crossweight on the left front of the car to try and free it up. And it made no difference. At that point there was a sort of a mandated minimum amount of downforce. It was all wrong. But Pocono, for me, Pocono, I wish we could race there. it was terrifying

I mean it was scary but wow it was something special turn one was wide open oh I can't imagine I mean it doesn't sound like a something I would want any part of you'd come down there and you'd kind of position yourself in the car

to sort of take these G forces and the problem was you'd so long to think about it down that front straight yeah here we go here we go but then you know not to make light of it But then we lost Justin Wilson at Pokron. That accident could have happened anywhere.

That's not a, you know, just with the time, it was just such dreadful timing. But then Robert Wiccans, that was shocking. But I believe, I was thinking about this the other night, I believe that Robert Wiccans would have been a, would have been an IndyCar champion and a 500 winner. That guy was special when he rocked up an IndyCar. I knew him from DTM.

But man, his talent is. something special and even though he's in there with hand controls and stuff and he's still going yeah but up there up there man the brain is is is is just he's so tough he reminds me in ardi in that that way and just that he doesn't doesn't know when he's beating he's just a machine yeah and um i wish i'd got to see him uh fulfill his his potential yeah so i mean if in if you if you were you know if indy car were to go back to to to michigan it could work with the right package.

Yeah, because I think fans are curious your opinion on that. You know, we talked about it earlier in the show. You know, your eventual decision to retire. There was a new car

that came into the series. The DeLard DW12 in 2012. Was that a car that you struggled with? Didn't enjoy? Why? I would say, you know, I had I didn't like COT, didn't like it, never felt good in it, didn't think it suited my skills. That was a period in the sport where I just didn't feel like, I feel like I was racing with a hand tie behind my back, driving the car.

That's two of us. So the DW12, I struggled with a little bit, the weight distribution was very odd. I remember the first test we did, Tony Kahn and I did it. And this was shortly after Dan died. And we went to Indy and ran it. and we went into the trailer together to debrief. He was doing it for Chevy. I was doing it for Honda.

And we were both white. It was just, it was so bad. The weight distribution, the arrow, it was all a bit wrong. But they made it very quickly. They made that car a good car to race. It was certainly a lot safer than the old car. So that was good. But it raced well.

It didn't look very nice to start with with all those. pods and stuff. I've got a good memory from that from winning the 2012 500 in the DW12. But the biggest problem I had was I was a right foot

breaker on road courses and this thing had two big pedals and a hand clutch and IndyCar wouldn't allow us to modify the pedals so I could right foot break. The most bizarre decision, it was IndyCar, the officials at the time. So I'd destroy two

cars trying to learn to left foot break. Goodness. And eventually Chip had to go to Indy car and say, you're going to have to do something here because it's costing me a lot of money. So they'd let me right foot break. But I struggled a little bit with that car with the

Honda at the time had a single turbo as well. So the turbo lag and all that stuff. I could qualify it like mad. I qualifying things were good, but I struggled sometimes in the races to to be competitive through the whole tire run

as the balance of the car shifted. And that was a, again, that was sort of that 2013 season, I could feel that motivation going away, that competitiveness. Yeah, that just wasn't feeling as competitive. And I looked around the Gannasi group. And a lot of, it's the same people I look at today when I'm in the trucks and I looked at them

and I thought, I don't want to be the weak link in this chain. I don't want to do that. I'm not going to hang on past when I can be competitive. I was 40. I just turned 40. I was looking for other things, Dale. I'd gone to see Porsche about driving at LaMalle. I'd done a handshake deal with them to drive for them in the future at LaMalle. So I was already sort of looking to step back a bit from IndyCar because, again, I just didn't feel I was as good as I had been two years before. And that was a worry.

You had this massive crash and suffered another concussion, a lot of fractures, two spinal fractures. You know, I can imagine what the process was like trying to rehab from all of that. But you had to eventually hear from your doctors that you didn't need to be driving, at least for the foreseeable future, how difficult. You said earlier that, you know, you were okay with that decision for a while, a couple years. but I imagine initially, you know, having not being able to make that choice yourself, you know, you had these other plans, I want to go run 24 hours and do other things. You had that taken from you. You had someone telling you what you were going to do for the first time in your life.

I was, I was alive, so I was okay. Honestly, I was, I was so happy to be alive. Yeah. I don't mean to be all sort of. No, I get it. Yeah, but the sky was bluer, the grass was greener. You know, I limped about for, you know, my right leg was shortened up two inches, so they had to put a bunch of metal in my right ankle to get it, fix all that,

dealt with a back injury. The brain was the hardest bit, though, and that, again, that took a long time. But I was okay. I remember the conversation. I remember early on because it was. Dr. Trammell and Dr. Olvey. Trammell for the bones, Ovi for the brain. That was, you know,

these guys, same guys, my whole career, who whenever I busted myself up, we're always there. And the conversation always went like, right, this is what's wrong. And there was a race to get me back into the car as quickly as possible. How could we do it? How could I beat the timeline that they'd given me? And they were always on board with, you know, helping me to push myself as hard as I wanted.

And then I don't remember. much about that period of time just because there was so much damage. But I remember the tone of their voice, the look in their eye. And it was, I knew something was different. And then sure enough, I went to Miami and did the, I did some scans. And I did, remember the impact test? Yeah. And I scored something like 2% on the reaction test. Oh man. Yeah. And they were like, and that was it. And so there was no, I didn't have any, honestly, I was fine. I was quite okay with all the decisions that had to be made.

I struggled telling Chip. I vaguely remember a conversation. I was in Scotland by then, and I remember calling him. And I think he was struggling more than I was. but literally on that I think it was on that conversation we agreed that I was going to come and be an advisor for the team

on that day and here I am 18 years later yeah you know still 18 years I've been working my chip should I say but you know 13 years since I stopped still doing that

so you I bet you know everybody's everybody's experience with those type of injuries is different, but we both make a decision not to drive anymore. We both make a decision, hey, I'm at this point of my life,

our age and all those things. It's just a good time to sort of pivot and think about prioritizing other things. And we both did that. And then we both started dabbling, playing, piddling, race here, race there, you know, scratching the itch. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I went and ran a couple of Xenity races. I'd do one a year, and I would get about halfway through those races.

I would perform way better than I expected to, but I would get about halfway through the race and go, all right, I'm good. I've learned that I still love this, and I've also learned that, yeah, I don't need to do it every week. You know, I just needed the reassurance that I was in a, I had made the right decision, you know, and then I'd go six months and go, damn, I want to do it again. I need to do it. And then I'd get back in halfway through the race. I'd go, yeah, I'm good. I'm all right. You know, is that the experience you had yourself?

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I don't need to do it every week. I don't need to be in it. You know, it's that thing. You probably went through the same. You know, is this a comeback? This is not a comeback. This is just getting the opportunity, you know, my,

having this idea and then our crazy friend, Jimmy, helping me make it all happen. But it's just about, yeah, it's just about doing it from me. It's just about going out and having fun. And as you say, scratching that edge, getting involved. And I've loved the conversations with Jeremy and my crew chief just getting involved and setting up for the weekend, all those things. But I'm okay that I'm not doing it the week after.

Right. Yeah. Oh, I bet. So tell me, I guess, how this did come about. So was it as simple as a little conversation with Jimmy? Had you been telling Jimmy, you know, hey man, you know, your car owner now, you know. You know Jimmy as well as I do. Yeah. So I had seen that they announced that trucks were going to race at St. Pete on Saturday.

And Dixon and I have always talked about the MX5 race. At St. Pete, we're like, we should do the MX5 race. That would be so much fun. And now he's talking. about he wants to do it at Daytona but he's slightly insane. Yeah, that's amazing. Right, but I's like, okay, I want to do something. I see Pete's

a track of love. Can I you know, well, that would be fun. That would be fun to do that. And so Jimmy and I at the time Jimmy and Shanney and the girls were in London and we we'd meet up a lot

and we were sitting having a glass of red. And I said to him, did you see the truck thing? That looks fun. I wonder if I should look at trying to do that. And Jimmy's like, we had a bit of a conversation back and forwards. And I literally think it was the next morning. Jimmy calls and says, hey, man, I found your truck.

What? He said, I found your truck. I said, oh, is it a good truck? He said, well, it's a team called TriCon. and I'm like with Tricon that won the championship and just you know on the Charlotte Roval smashed everybody's doors in and yeah then

oh okay so it's a good truck yeah it's like yeah it's a good truck and I'm going to drive it in San Diego I said okay well we need to get a sponsor he's like yeah we'll work on that you know with Legacy and Legacy Motor Club and all that he said well we'll work on it you work on it I'll work on it so the next thing he calls me he says hey Dollar Tree are on board.

Sweet. He's like, yeah, they love the idea. He said, I'm going to come on the box and I'm going to advise you from the box like you used to do with me and IndyCar. I'm like, oh, here we go. So Dollar Tree came on, Pye Barker came on board and Scott Borsetto with Borsetta Bourb and came on board. So all this thing happened. And then, yeah, I mean, honestly, Jimmy has been the driving force behind it. He's getting such a kick out of, uh, out of, uh, out of a. of me getting back in

the car. You know, we were, we've raced at Goodwood together, we won in Astor Martin DB4GT, which Jimmy put a rather sizable dent in it, but and then he, then we went to spa the 26 hours of spa in a 4GT40,

which, you know, so we've, we've done some great racing together recently, and he could see that I wanted to wanted to do something, and he's, uh, He's helped me make it happen. So I think I have to thank him. We'll see after Saturday. Yeah, I would.

You know, that's Jimmy. He got me into road biking. He got me on snow skis. Like he's that kind of guy that's like, oh, you've never tried this? Well, you've got to try this. And I've got a guy. I'll fix it up. Don't worry.

It's all here. He just puts it all out in front of you. And they're like, here you go. You're on first class operation every time. Let's go. Yes. But you've experienced what I've experienced. I think fans think of Jimmy as very buttoned up.

Very, you know, he's so sort of structured and polished. You and I know different. We know that when he gets this twitch in his eye and that can mean you're about to get in a competitive situation with him and you're going to finish second. Or you're going to go skiing with him or something and he skis like a lunatic. He's, you know, and he's, you know, I think he's one of those,

we're so lucky to have him as a friend. Oh, yeah. He's nuts. He invited me and some other great friends on a trip and to Europe. And we actually ended up at dinner with your wife, which was incredible. And I swear, I've never been to London or never been to Europe. up, I've been to Germany, but I've never really spent much time there. And, I mean, we were in the top-in places.

It was just like a hotel everywhere we went to eat. First class out of the park. And I felt like I was on another planet, like a really cool planet. But it was so insane. My, Amy told me to tell Ellie, I guess, to tell her hello. But we had it. Right back out, yeah. Ellie had fun.

She told me all about it. Yeah. I was so, I was so jealous. I was to fish out of water, man. I was so out of my element. But you just, when you're in those moments with Jimmy,

you just trust, he knows where he's going. He knows what you're, he's not going to put you in a bad spot. But I was like, man, I have no idea where I'm at. And you went to Scotland,

didn't you? We did. We did go to Scotland, which was, that was a little more, that was a little more my speed. Like we were out in the wilderness drinking beer and riding

out in the woods riding these bikes down down this long creek and out in the middle of nowhere. It was so awesome. And the old place, the old inn where we stayed, the hotel we stayed in was just very

vintage and like I've been there for 500 years or more. It probably had. Yeah, right? And so we went into this town we stayed at and you know this, but I'm saying it's for the listeners. We stayed in this little town, maybe 300 people live there.

And we went to the local tavern and hung out with all the locals. And I mean, that right there is right in my wheelhouse. I want to do that kind of stuff right there. You and me both. Yeah. When we went to London, I mean, it is like being in New York City. But in Europe, it was wide open people everywhere and fancy, fancy, fancy dinners and all this stuff. But it was still cool to do it.

But, yeah. So I have a question for you. You mentioned, Amy, what's going on with Daytona? I heard it another day a little. What? Well, yeah, we were just sitting in the bed after the 500, and we were just going over the weekend and talking about just there's not so much the result that we had that day, but more the emotions of being there and how heavy it is.

And it's good. We have fun, but it's super emotional to just not only my connection to the racetrack, but to trying to run the Daytona 500, doing this once a year. we were just in our feelings and she was like you should just do it next year and I was like the hell like I you know I didn't I thought she was I thought you know I've been racing a late model stock car which is local regional short track um it's where I started so I kind of made this big arc to get the cup and I went out the same way I came in and I'm all the way back to square one and I love going and playing and doing that and I get my ass kick

but I still, it's fun. And, but she was like, you just drive the cup car next year. I'm like, you have no idea how hard that is. And to your point, like getting in shape and being in the mental shape and knowing where the corners of the car is. And I don't, I don't drive those cars. And I don't, they got sequential, sequential shifters now. They got all these whole interiors completely foreign to me. And so, but she was just wishful thinking, but I know better than to get into that mess.

But Jimmy's done it. You know, Jimmy's had fun doing it. But I don't know. Yeah. We went down there to watch him. Scott Dixon and I went down. Elie and the girls came down.

We were all there supporting Jimmy. He had a great strategy to get in the front for the last stage. But he spun coming on pit road and that messed the strategy. That would be me. I would be spinning on the pit road. I would be, you wouldn't be able to give me a strategy because I'd screw it all up. But, you know, I try to tell people.

Like, you know, it's so, it's so whimsical to think, yeah, go run one more race at the top level of the motorsport discipline that you know. It ain't that easy. These guys are elite. They're, they're, that, that five percent that they have, that none of us have anymore, that's, you can't race without it, you know, and expect to do well, to your point. Like, I could go do it. I could stay out of trouble. I could, I could disappear into the pack and probably get across the finish line, but that's not what we want to do. That's not the experience that we want to have.

And so we want to get out there and do it well. And if we can't do it well, it's not as easy to go through the commitment of it and all the extra stuff you have to do as well. So I got to tell you, man, I learned about you racing this truck. I'm excited for you. We've had some very brief kind of exchanges over the years about our, you know, our own experiences. And I am thrilled for you to be able to get back behind the wheel.

know you've had some experiences behind the wheel racing over the years, but this is, this is a real deal. This is a legit top three NASCAR. You are back to 2007, back to square one, but you're at least at a place you're familiar with. I think you'll have an advantage over a lot of the competition in terms of your experience on the racetrack and your great expertise as a road course racer. So I'm looking forward to seeing you just like this at the end of the day, all smiles,

proud that you did this. Arm in arm with Jimmy. Thankful for this opportunity. Can't wait to see it happen this weekend, buddy. Thanks, Jr. Appreciate it. All right, man. Thanks for giving us some time today.

I know you're a busy man trying to figure out how you're going to get over to St. Pete and get ready for this weekend. But good luck and enjoy it. Thank you. Dario Frank Kiti on the Dale Jr. download. All right. So, man, that was a great conversation.

I wanted to say this to him before he got off the air. I wanted to add this back into the conversation. But Dario, thank you for being transparent and open about some of the toughest moments in your career and some of the heartbreak and loss that you experienced. This guy is prepping himself for the race this weekend. And in a racer's mind, you want to, like, put the blinders on and just forward focus on trying to do the best job you can.

with this singular opportunity. So asking him to like kind of open up the chest and and dive into some of those, those old memories, some that, some that probably still are difficult to discuss. That was a big ask and a tall, tall order, I think, for Dario. So thank you, Dario, for doing that for our listeners, for the show. Not always assumed and expected, but just a great conversation. I, so he, I didn't never really, I didn't know, know him at all.

I obviously was a fan or had watched him race. And then when he retired, we had some, we had some brief interactions in our, you know, in the direct message and so forth on social media about his injury and about his experience and so forth. And I'm very grateful for that. I mean, I think he's the one that instigated the, the conversation. but it made me it made me really care about his health, his well-being, his experience in life beyond racing and so

yeah I I'm glad to to know that he got back behind the wheel that he got to enjoy some great moments that he mentioned with Jimmy and so forth at Goodwood and now this truck opportunity we should all you know knowing what he's experienced everything that he's done, everything he's accomplished, we should all be wanting him to be able to go to St. Pete and just have a blast.

You know, the performance, what the end result is, matters none, matters very, very little. You know, the competitor in him is certainly going to want to go out there and run well, right? Put up a good effort. But honestly, that matters very little. It's about the lapse, the smells, the sounds,

the feeling, the rush. You know, and I'm sure he's going to, he's going to capture all of that perfectly. Just thankful for him, he couldn't make the flight to get here. He's supposed to be in the studio. And he's like, I could still do remote. And we as a team got together, had a conversation, and I'm glad we were able to do it today. And that was a lot of fun.

Yeah. So excited about this weekend. I think I'll be tuned into the truck race anticipating how he may do. And, yeah, thanks for joining. wanting us here in the Arby's studio. Don't forget about Arby's new meat in three box. Right here it is. You get more meal for your money when you go to Arby's,

and especially with this deal right here, $7.99. Arbys, we have the meets. We'll see y'all next week. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.