The Dale Jr. Download - David Reutimann: MWR Exit, Nasty Crashes & Brain Surgery

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr welcomes in NASCAR Cup Series winner David Reutimann to discuss his upbringing, hard hits behind the wheel, and life after NASCAR. After stepping away from NASCAR racing in 2014, Dale Jr. and David review his cold-turkey departure from the sport and the hardships of not being able to walk away on his own terms. He also details memorable moments from behind the wheel, which included a controversial Coke 600 win, getting physically ill before qualifying, MWR’s Daytona rocket fuel cheating scandal, and the vicious crashes he’s endured over the years. The fans requested this one, and it’s one you won’t want to miss. And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMediaDirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Dale Jr. Download merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuffFanDuel: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I don't watch cup racing at all. Really? Do you think that's because you're just not interested to see it or because you don't want to watch it? I think very few of us have the opportunity to go out the way we want to. It's just a self-preservation, I guess, really. If you're a drug addict and you want to get clean, you don't hang around with people to do drugs. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. download,

David Ruderman is the guest today. A lot of y'all have asked for David to come on the show. We haven't heard from him in a while. Don't really know a lot about what he's been doing since. He retired from Cup. A lot to learn today. This should be a good one. Let's get started.

Bring David into the room. All right, David Ruderman on the Dale Jr. Download. Man, it has been a while. I hadn't seen you in quite a few years. It's been a long time for sure. Yeah, it has. We're going to talk about your career, your childhood,

growing up in a racing family. and I've been looking forward to this. I hadn't heard from you in a long time. But one of the things that I've always kind of been curious about is the last name, Ruderman, is synonymous with motorsports. You have a lot of racing history in your family. Tell me about that. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, kind of like yourself.

I mean, my dad was, especially, especially around the dirt tracks and short tracks of Florida and later on up in New York and things of that nature. He was kind of well known at that level, you know. It was, yeah. And so, I mean, yeah, it was just, you know, I always grew up around a racetrack. Most of my friends had racing fathers and things that nature. And so you would just, I can remember to this day, being. on the back straightaway at Middletown, New York,

and the back of a station wagon, playing with little cars and getting into dirt and being a kid. So, I mean, it's like I never really knew I was living, you know, being raised any different than most of the kids around, because, I mean, that's all I was around was just racing. Sure. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, there was all kinds of racing. and then, yeah, special races on Thursday up there.

So, I mean, yeah, it was, I mean, heck, eventually you kind of got tired of going to a racetrack, you know, a little bit. You were born in Florida, though. How do you get from Florida to the northeast? Well, my dad, when he started racing, he was wanting to race for living. and do the things that, you know, Eracier does. And so I think one year my dad was a parks guide at our Chevrolet dealership in Florida in Zephyr Hills. And so I think probably, I think if I remember the story, because I remember, I don't, I don't, everything's from memory and I don't do that well anymore. Yeah.

But I think Will Kagle, which was another guy from Tampa, who was having a lot of success up in New York, Pennsylvania, things, that area. He stopped in because his trailer lights quit working, and he had his trailer fix. And my dad went out and looked at his car, and they got to talk. And so the next year, when Will went north, my dad just went north. Really? Just, you know, because, you know, he knew he could race and make a living,

or he thought it could anyway. and yeah, I mean, he went up there. I don't think, from what I hear, I don't think it was in a mini success, you know, going in. I think probably he wrecked a lot, you know, kind of like me. I was blaming him for everything I did wrong because I was like, well, you taught me, so if I crashed it, it's automatic of your fault. But he told me he was, he said, I would always, when I started,

race running decent, I would always race for seventh spot because I knew what seventh paid. And once, you know, so if I ran seventh, you know, once I got the seventh, I was, I was good. And then, you know, then eventually it got, you know, running their top five. And then, you know, eventually, you know, over a span of a couple years, I think he was one of the, uh, the better guys up there. Yeah. What age were you when you ended up moving out of Florida? Well, we would go to New York and race part of the year and then go back to Florida. Oh, really? Yeah.

So I was just, you know. Back and forth. Yeah, kind of nomadic, I guess, really. Very much. Yeah, so I was in and out schools and things of that nature. Good Lord. Yeah, so, you know, I didn't. Did you finish school?

Yeah, I finished. Yeah. I didn't go to college, but I didn't get to finish school. I think they probably just threw me out of high school, probably. You eventually got tired of seeing me. But had you made up your mind? at a young age that you wanted to drive? Yeah, I mean, I just, I just wanted,

I wasn't racing to try to be in NASCAR or things in that nature. Sure. I was just trying to race to be like my dad. Yeah, and he truly made a living. Yeah, he, that's what, I mean, looking back, and, you know, because I asked him, I said, well, how could you make, how could you possibly make a living racing? And he said, well, you know, those races,

is for a regular third-a-lap show paid $1,200,200, whatever, and that was a lot of money back in 1970, four, you know, five, but whatever when he was having most of a success. So at that point, you could kind of make a living, racing. And there were several guys up there doing it. You know, Gary Blue was doing it. You know, Kegel, my dad, Lou LaZero, you know, all the big names from that era were kind of,

doing for a living. So, yeah, and I think at that point, if you had the drive and you had a, because you built your own stuff, if you built a better car, you could, you know, go out and win with it and outrun some of the guys and do okay, I guess. Yeah. Damn. You began driving Big Block Modifights. Yeah, yeah.

Why Big Block Modifides? Well, I was just, again, I was just trying to be like my dad, and man, I sucked. was terrible up there. I was like in the way. Yeah. This is like the dirt big block modified. Yeah. So in the 90s, in the early 90s, so did you ever go to like the miles and? Yeah, I went to Syracuse a couple of times. What was that like? It was way, way faster. I had no business being out there for sure. Why do you say that? I mean, I just, I should have. is the whole terminology you need to crawl before he can walk.

Well, I went right into running in that point, you know, big block stuff. And I just, you know, tors and bars. I came from a background of, you know, cool springs and things of that nature. And those cars at that time were torsion bar on the back, cool over to the front. And I was completely lost.

I mean, I had no idea. I think I won maybe one or two races, maybe. The rest of the time, I was kind of just there in the way, really. So in 97, is that what you did up until before you got into the Slim Dream Ball Pro series? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I was, you know, I went to high school. And when I got out high school and I was dirt racing, a kid named Brian Patty.

Yes. Was actually my crew chief. He just showed up. And my cousin, Sean, who ended up me and my spotter. those super friends because they were quite a bit younger than I was and you know Brian just came and started hanging out and the next thing I know he was hanging the bodies

and doing this Brian was at that time and still probably did this day you just show him one time what to do and he would probably do it better than you could ever could you ever could so I mean yeah so that's kind of how I got my start with you know him and then I went to race Big Block Modifides

and he went to up here you know, to be, you know, he wanted to be a crew chief, and I thought I wanted to be a big bog racer. And it turns out I was not cut out for that lifestyle for sure. How do you end up in the All-Pro Series? I just, at that time, again in Florida, you could race like a dirt track on Friday and maybe pick up a payment ride on Saturday or whatever.

So I just started doing okay and winning races and, you know, got recognized, and I started to, driving for a guy named Jim Brinkley Jr. I started driving his stuff, just local payment stuff. He had an All-Pro car, and then it eventually got recognized, and I got involved with a guy named Mike Wakely out of Georgia, and kind of just moved up the ladder, so to speak. Again, in the All-Pro series, I still wasn't,

I was still trying to do my own thing, and I wasn't really having as much success as some of the guys, for sure. Yeah. You racked up three wins in the series in 2002, and then you got into some bush races around the same time. You made some one-off starts for a few different teams in 2002. Do you remember who those were for and how those deals came together? I remember I think probably one of my first big breaks was being involved with Joe Yemichick,

And I think probably just because Brian Patty being a screw chief, Brian just probably just wore him down to the point where it's like, you know, so I started just doing some just going and helping it shop because I was a fabricator and thinking that nature. So because, I mean, if you don't have any money, you just learn to build your own stuff. And that's kind of how I learned. You know, it's kind of out of necessity. So, yeah, I mean, I got involved with Joe. We would, Joe eventually would take me to test. And then... Let you drive?

Yeah. Then eventually it turned into, let me drive at the end of the day. They would just go out and say, Eric Phillips was over there too as well. And he was calculating fuel and things in that issue. And they filled the car with the fuel, put two tires on it and say, okay, go out and run until it runs out of gas. Right. And I would just be out there with my tongue hanging out, you know, trying to just make it a full, you know, full run. Yeah, and also I didn't know enough that when you put tape,

tape the car up early in the morning, new tires and stuff like that. It was probably as good as it was going to be. Well, Joe would go out there and do that, and I would spend the rest of the day trying to get to his time. Matches lap time, not never going to, no chance to go and do it. No, and I had no idea, you know, why I wasn't any faster. And then, you know, eventually like, yeah, I caught on, but, geez, it was way longer than I thought it should have been.

Yeah. there was a deal called the, I guess, the Hill Brothers Coffee Break of a lifetime. In 2003, you won a contest where the Hill Brothers Coffee picked a driver to receive a full sponsorship for them for five races in the Bush Series. Do you remember that, how them races went? Yeah, I mean, I think we did okay. Did that go to Joe? It was a, you basically take that package to Joe? That was actually, I think it was probably, I think it was probably,

as I remember it, I think Joe was heavily involved with Hills Brothers, and it just kind of worked out where whoever won the contest was it going to go race to Joe stuff. And racing Joe stuff was kind of like, you know, one of the top busheets at a time. Oh, yeah. And so if I didn't run good in that stuff, I was probably never going to run good, right? It was awful good equipment, for sure.

And, yeah, so, I mean, yeah, we, I don't know where we finished, but I think we ran okay. Yeah. I got into, so Joe was hurt in one weekend at Charlotte, and I think it was 2000 or 2001, and he asked me if I drive his car. And I said, hell, yeah, I'll drive it. It was a cellular. Yeah, cell one.

Yeah. And Brian Patty and all that, I was like, man, I'll drive it, course, you know, runs top two everywhere you were, every time he runs it. and I don't know what was going on that day and I don't think we ever learned but we practiced okay don't remember really qualifying all that great, maybe okay but wasn't too alarmed

but when the race started it was like it had a broke axle in it. It just, I mean I don't know what was wrong with it but I couldn't drive it and I felt so terrible because I knew that they were used to run in first or second and I'm like man I don't know why I can't drive this thing but it is bad. We literally had to park it during the race because I just couldn't go.

Couldn't go. But I always kind of wondered what was the reason behind the way that car drove. But Brian was a pretty sharp guy still at it today. So apparently during those races, you must have gotten some pretty good reviews because you would attempt a couple of cup races for Morgan McClure. they were kind of in the process of winding their existence in the Cup Series down and didn't qualify. If you failed to qualify for those two races. But in 2005, you picked up an opportunity to race, I guess that was the first year you race for Darrell Waltrip in the truck series full time.

And you'd end up picking a win up at Nashville. And I remember, now this is when I remember you. I remember hearing your name a little bit in the All-Pro stuff, and I used to pay attention to a little bit of the All-Pro stuff. and I used to pay attention to a little bit of the All-Pro stuff and I had known the Ruderman name because there's people that, you know, they're just in general conversation in motorsports, there's people that have a ton of respect for your family, you know,

and what y'all were able to do up north before you ever even got in a truck. Yeah, yeah. But when you finally got in that truck, obviously it was Darryl Walchip's truck and that was a lot of pressure and spotlight. It was. Darrell, you know, that was, what was driving for Darrell like? What was that attention, that new attention like for you?

Well, again, it was kind of like, you know, out of the frying pan and the fire kind of deal. I mean, there was a lot of attention with Darrell's team, to it coming on board. And, you know, it was their first involvement in any kind of motor sports or not, I'd say, you know, NASCAR type of stuff. And, yeah, I mean, I remember being, because I was working at Joe's, just building size shirts and crushed panels and stuff, trying to, you know, stay relevant. And I got a call at home.

And I thought it was the guys from the shop, from the FAP shop, just mess around with it because they would always do that kind of stuff. Get on the outspeaker or say, hey, Rick K. Eric's online one. You know, Roger Pinsky's on line two, whatever. You know, and so I just thought they'd up their game and brought it to my house. And so I didn't believe for a second it was Darrow Walthow calling me at home. And so eventually, so I was kind of being a smart aleck, I guess, really, to Darrell. You know, because I thought it was one of the guys. And I looked on the back, you know, caller ID on the back of the phone, because that's what the caller ID was on that time.

and it said it had a number and it was, you know, Derek Walshap's a phone number. I was like, so I straightened up right away. And again,

he asked me to race his truck. And of course, I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean, number one, I didn't have any options for one.

And number two is Darry Waltrip, right? And when Darry Waltrip calls you at home, you kind of, you know, kind of listened, really.

So that was, that was kind of a special time. And, you know, for me, because I went from just making size her brush bandles. And again, Joe just, Joe didn't need another fabricator. Joe just kept me on just to give me something to do so I could stay in the area. Right. And, yeah, it worked out, you know, okay. And matter of fact, 10 minutes later, I got a call from Richard Childers to drive the 30 car,

the AOL car, cup car. Yeah. And, again, I just knew that I had no. No business. You're quite ready. Yeah, I was not ready. Heck, I don't even know if I was ready to go truck racing, much as a cup race. Yeah.

You race full-time for Darrell for three years. You would end up, did that, you know, you'd end up racing for Michael after this. How did driving for Darrell aid in whatever relationship you developed with Michael? was Darrell also involved in supporting that process of you going into Michael's program? Yeah, yeah, Gerald was very supportive of that, for sure. Obviously, those two being related, I think probably had a lot to do with it in the fact that, yeah, I mean, Michael was, you know, trying to concentrate on a cup deal. and I don't know if I don't think he had as much time as it you know as he did at one time to drive the at that time the bush car and so yeah I mean and again I just wanted to drive something I didn't

care what it was truck car and Michael's Bush cars were really good they were and Bobby Kenny was over there and and and yeah so it's like yeah it was uh it was you know things happened really fast in a short period of time yeah and that in that time. But up to that time, man, it was a long road of sleeping in a rest series and doing all kinds of stuff, you know, being on the road at three or four in the morning. What year were you born? How old are you at this point, 2005-ish?

Five. Let's see. Well, I was born in 1970. Yeah. So, 35. Yeah, if you have a prime, if I had a prime. When do you think it was? It was way past it.

You were past it? I was past my client before I got. She had to go cup racing for sure. I mean, maybe I was okay. I don't think a lot of people realize how old you were. No, I don't. When all that went down. Yeah, I think in the cup series,

I think I was probably the oldest rookie that I'd ever seen. Yeah. One of the older. Yeah. I was an old man for sure, yeah, compared to those guys. You know, you didn't look like it. Well, I mean, you know, I think probably I wore a hat a lot. And my hair, which has always been awful,

I had the same haircut since I was born. So I looked younger at that point. Obviously, you know, age caught up with me, but, you know, at some point I looked younger and that really was, I guess. Hey, TJ, you know that I got my own Chevy dealership down in Tallahassee, Florida. We're part of the Hendrick Automotive Group. Yes, I have heard of Darren Hart Jr. Chevrolet. I bet you'd be surprised on what type of Chevrolet vehicles we specialize in. If I had a guess, I'm going to say it would probably be Chevy trucks.

Well, we definitely sell plenty of those, but actually we're really big in commercial vehicles. We actually sell a lot of crane trucks, or the number one seller, actually, in crane trucks. Okay, I definitely did not see that coming. Yeah, pretty neat, huh? So for any of our listeners shopping for commercial vehicles, here are some things you need to know about us at Delin Hart Jr. Chevrolet. We have hundreds of trucks in stock so you can find what you need fast. And we have people there that can help you with custom orders. So if you want to build the exact vehicle you need, we can do it.

We offer complimentary delivery anywhere in the continental U.S. Plus, Hendrick Automotive Group is the nation's top-rated dealer group for online reputation. Visit Dale Jr. Chevy.com and click commercial to explore the wide range of available commercial vehicles. Our team at Dellenhart Jr. Chevrolet will give you a world-class experience. Chevrolet, together, let's talk. Drive. Well, you run 15 races in Michael's car in 06 and then got the opportunity to go cup racing in 07.

When you got into the cup deal, you would get paired up with Roddy Chilters. Was that your, was he with you right away, right out of the gate? No, no. Frankie Kerr was originally my crew chief on the cup side. And again, I was just testing cup stuff. I wasn't even a driver. They were interviewing other drivers. I wish to drive in a bush car and testing the cup car.

And then I think Frankie was probably instrumental in getting me hired because, you know, they're like, well, you know, you're looking, you know, elsewhere. Maybe you should look internally and, you know, who is employed already. So, yeah, I mean, and I can remember to this day, Frankie telling me, you know, when we were getting ready to go to Daytona, he goes, look, we're not ready to win races yet. you know, we're just trying to qualify. Yeah. In my mind, I was like, heck with that, I'm ready to win. Yeah, I'm going to win.

Well, I showed up. I was like, no, no, we're definitely not ready to win. Yeah, the first year with Michael's Cup team was a rough one. Yeah, it was. It was, I believe Darrell Jared as a teammate and DJ come out of a Yates car and took the UPS sponsorship to Michael's.

and had a really, really tough year. Michael himself driving his own cars. All of that was a big undertaking for Michael. Toyota being new in the Cup Series, relatively new in the Cup series, we're still trying to figure out how to get their program competitive. You just had everything stacked against you. While at the same time, it's being this incredible opportunity, right?

Yeah. You know, being the Cup level, you really didn't have many tools and resources just yet. No. The team would develop, but out of the gate, that must have been pretty challenging, right, to measure your expectations.

It was. I mean, but again, I didn't know any better. I thought, you know, I thought it was probably some of the best stuff. It was by far the best stuff I'd ever driven. Yeah. But, you know,

but I think reality started to sit in when I was down at the shop and Cornelia was there, and they were building that shop. And the floor, the, the, the walls were up, but the middle part of the shop was just dirt.

And I remember a bulldozer being stuck in that dirt because it was raining outside and it was a muddy mess. And I was like, I think of it. I was thinking of myself, I was like, man, I don't think they're ever going to get this done.

Yeah. And eventually, obviously, they did. But, man, it was, you know,

it was terrible. I mean, all those guys, Del Jarrett and things of that nature, Michael, were definitely good to me. but I just, I mean, in qualifying, I mean, you know, at that time, I think there was probably 48 or 50 well-funded cup teams at that time for

for less spots than that, and you had to qualify, and it was tough for sure. Yeah. I can't imagine. I got to experience that just a little bit running these last few Xfinity races over the last couple of years, not having a spot and having to go out early and not being locked in. and just having to sweat that just a little bit. I can't imagine what it must have been like at the cup level for you guys.

I would make myself. I would actually physically throw up for qualifying. I believe it. And at garbage can and then get in the car and go out there. And sometimes, you know, I was the only one to make it in the show. And to make it in the show, you end up having to bump out your team. Yes. You know, sometimes it was Michael.

Sometimes it was, you know, Jarrett and sometimes it was me, you know. I mean, so it's just, it was very, very cruel. I mean, but it's just the way it was. Yeah. You remember going to Daytona and illegal fuel debacle and. Yeah, I remember that. The very first race.

Yeah, yeah. And we just got done having a meeting and Michael said, he goes, whatever we do, we can't be caught cheating, right? And then, you know, of course, I mean, our car, our domino's car, I think was was okay. But, you know, there was some stuff going on just because we did, we obviously did not have the speed that we needed to get in and people were doing anything they could. And again, I'm not sure what went on.

I've never really, I was just kind of living in my own mobile, really, with my own guys, my own team. And I didn't really know what was going on. And also, I knew Michael was the boss and not to ask any questions. Just go with the flow. Oh, yes, it didn't work out. You collected, in 2008, you collected a handful of top tens, a poll, finished 22nd points, had to feel pretty good after the,

after how rough maybe 2007 was to be able to make the gains. You were 39th in points in that first year. So, you know, definitely kind of trending in the right direction. Yeah, but still, it wasn't very good, but, I mean, it was obviously better for sure. I mean, again, I mean, coming from a team where you had to have your cars built in one shop and then, you know, cars were moved to another shop and, you know, all the stuff that went on with it, I think people don't understand what obstacles Michael had to overcome, and the organization had to overcome just to even be at a racetrack, much less be competitive.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people didn't see what was going on. You got with Rodney Childers, and he makes a call in the 2009 Coke 600 that would put you in the lead late in the race when the rains would come. I want to talk about that first win, but first I want to know what, you know, what you, I grew up with Rodney. Me and him went to school together and I've known him most of my life, and he's got quite a reputation as a crew chief, obviously, but this was, you know, kind of in the beginning stages of that career for him. you got the opportunity to work with him on that team. What was that like? I mean, you know, we've been through between Frankie.

I think Pemberton was a crew chief as well, and he went to Red Bull. And so we were kind of stuck without a crew chief for the most part. And Roddy was just coming off. I think he was a crew chief over with Everham Steel, you know, Dodge Steel. and Dodge deal with that. From one I understand, from what I remember, that deal was coming to an end. And I don't know all specifics, but we were,

Rodney and I sat down at the Cracker Barrow right here on 150 and basically hammered out kind of a deal that kind of, you know, made of my crew chief. Yeah. I mean, it was like, heck, I mean, heck for the first truck deal, I sat with, it was me, myself, Bobby Kennedy and Brian Patty, down at the steak and shake. I don't know what it is about food and deals that come together for me,

but, you know, it worked out okay. But yeah, I mean, it's like it was just two guys sitting down, you know, having something to eat and talking racing. And, you know, it's like, you know, Rodney, you've been around him a bunch. And, of course, I didn't know really how good he was at that point until, you know, I started, you know, kind of paying attention and, you know,

and seeing him how involved he was and, you know, how much he observed. And, you know, just him, him, me and him, really, you know. Yeah, he's a special dude. Y'all would end up winning that race, and I remember that day, I'd done wrecked out or falling out of the race, and I was home watching it on TV when they declared you the winner on the front straightaway. I've won my share of races all kinds of ways and you'd end up

validating that success later on with a win at Chicago land in 2010 but going back to that first win the look on your face when they declare you the winner all the work that you talk about having to do to be able to get that team off the ground

going from going from a team not knowing whether you were going to qualify into the race one week to the next to standing there as a winner and how that would change the program, puts you in the Winter Circle program, all the benefits that come with having a winning car and NASCAR, all that changed right there in one moment. Yeah, yeah, it did for sure. Yeah.

I didn't, again, you know, as a driver, sometimes you just do what you're told, right? And Roddy just told me to stay out. So I did. And everybody else came in. I think we were running like 11th or whatever. And the top 10 came down pit road. And like any good driver, automatically I questioned what Roddy was doing. I was like, that's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

You know what I mean? It's like those guys obviously know something that we don't. Well, evidently, I should have just kept my mouth shut and held the steering wheel. And so we stayed out there. And also, I mean, I, I, I. I got into the fence. I was trying to run the top at Charlotte. And I got in the fence a little bit.

So we were going to have to come down pit road and, you know, pull the fenders off. You know, pull a little bit. So the pit stop was not going to be great anyway. Yeah. We're going to lose all that track position. So I think Brodney in the back with mine and said, hey, we're going to, you know,

be at the back anyway. So why not take a chance of winning this thing? And yeah, it worked out. But, you know, right away, I was like, man, this is not going to go or that good with people because I haven't led a lap yet at Charlotte, you know, at that point

and to win the race and not lead it. You know, when you're having your first dream of winning a cup race. Not how you dream. Yes, not how you thought it would come at all. So. Were you able to enjoy it? No, not really.

Not really because I was always I think probably I never really felt like I belonged anyway, you know, in a sport at that level. The guys around me were kind of larger in life anyway, you know? And so I was always worried about getting fired.

So it's like, well, I was like, well, at least if I have a race win, at least it can give you a little more life. life in a sport. Yeah. Although it would, albeit it was not the way you want to win races. No. I thought that same way about winning.

So you've got to forget that my dad, Tui was. I, if anybody, I get, from my perspective, I would know better than anyone how rare a 20-year career in NASCAR is, right? and how hard to like attain this, you know, something that's just going to be steady. You want to, you and I both wanted to go into the Cup series. Our dream was to race cup for a living. Yeah, raise for a living. Yeah. Right. Winning's great, but we just wanted to do it.

Like not get fired. Yeah, be part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And I told myself, you know, when I was really young, I said, man, if I could just win once, I think that'll kind of love. that should, like, help me, at worst, milk this thing for 20 years, right? I was looking out into the Cup series at drivers who had had the one win or the two wins

and made careers, you know, going from ride to ride to ride. Somebody hoping to, like, find whatever this guy had left, right? And I was like, man, at worst, I'll have that if I can just win once. you know and I don't know I'm not I'm not assuming your thought process or how you approach this but I think what I'm hearing kind of feels very similar to mine in terms of like I never a lot of people go into things very cocky or very arrogant or and and that works for a lot of people you know they believe that they believe they belong there they believe they're better than anybody there and they go in there and they do it, right? I wasn't that kind of guy. You know, I kind of had to feel like I needed to see myself check a few boxes before I felt like I belonged there or could do it.

And man, I just hoped I could do it for a living because I didn't want to work a real job, right? Yeah. But you would end up having another win at Chicago Land. So you passed Jeff Gordon and held off Carl Edwards this is in 2010. You know, you and Rodney, I think, are starting to find more speed. There were moments where you could see this, the potential in yourself and him, the team.

You know, what do you, you know, where does that win fall? Is that kind of the one where you're like, all right, you know, now I feel like I can celebrate this, I deserve this, I earn this. Yeah, I think so. I mean, but, you know, of course, I mean, you know, you get to thinking in back your mind. It's like, well, why can't I win all the time? Because the car was just so good. You thought the car.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, why can't I, why can't do this on a regular basis? Yeah. You know, I mean, but, I mean, eventually reality sets in. But, yeah, it's, it's, I don't know. I mean, looking back. I mean, I wish I would have enjoyed it more.

Yeah. For sure. I can relate to that. Yeah. Do you have that trophy? Yeah, I had a trophy. Where is it? It's in-house, yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, you're proud. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess. I mean, I... You know, not many people have won at that level. No, no. There's not, but...

Yeah, I don't... I don't really think about it, especially being through all the stuff I've been through medically wise and whatever, you know, it kind of puts things in perspective, I guess, really. And so I don't really dwell on that too much or think about it too much. I mean, heck, I mean, to just say I've, when I finished race at Richmond and I walked away, I don't think I've watched, I think I watched True X win the championship the last five laps. than that, I don't watch cup racing at all. Really?

Do you think that's because you're just not interested to see it or because you don't want to watch it? I think very few of us have the opportunity to go out the way we want to. You know, I mean... You didn't get to do that? No, I don't feel like I did. So it's like, and it's not because I'm mad at NASCAR or have anything against cup racing. It's just a self-preservation, I guess, really.

If you know, if you're a drug addict, you know, and you want to get clean, you don't hang around with people to do drugs. Well, that's got to the same thing. That's the same thing. That's very powerful. I've had a lot of guys on here like you and me that we, some got to end it how they wanted. Some people's careers end how they end. and I don't know that a lot of us end our careers in a very, in the best place, right?

There are some guys that have won championships that, you know, gutted out a final two or three years. DJ is a great example, right? Dale Jarrett's final couple of years were very frustrating, hard, you know, and not more, you know, he deserved better. But I guess we, I've sat here and I've had this conversation with a lot of guys

like you and me that of, not some, I want to talk to you about the crashes. I want to talk to you about not getting to end it on your terms. But I guess beyond that, how do you, like I have a, I'm having, I have, even today, I still have a hard time, not hanging out with the drug addicts, right? Yeah. And like I know that at some point in my life I've got to really kind of like say goodbye

or shut the door on this idea of me as a race car driver. Yeah. And I really have a hard time. like, I guess I think I have a hard time, you know, standing in my house and on any given day wondering my worth and my value if I'm not a race car driver. Yeah. Right? And because you have built, because you and me have only wanted that one thing, and we felt like we were only good if we were that one thing.

And what are we if we are not that anymore, right? And we'll go find things that we're interested in, passion projects, hobbies, or other ways to find joy and happiness, but nothing will ever feel that cup the way racing a car did or being a driver, right? And so, you know, and I don't know that you have the answers, but I always kind of wonder everybody has a little bit of a different take on it and you're the way you just described it

it's like man I can't hang out with I can't it's like if you're a drug addict you can't hang out with other addicts if you're trying to quit and your case is unique because yes you didn't get to end it the way you wanted but you did go back to the racetrack like you weren't totally like you didn't leave racing entirely you just left

that part of racing, the cup side of racing. You went and raced dirt cars. Yeah. And you went and you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, chiefs and late model stuff. I don't, what are you doing these days? I'm just building, uh, building, uh, building, uh, build,

cars, there modifies and stuff like that. So you're still around racing. Yeah, but, but it, it's a different type of racing for sure. And that's okay. And that, yeah, that's, well, I'm not smart enough to do nothing else. So, I mean, I might as well, I mean, in plus, I mean, I mean, I mean, when you're, when you're, one track minded, like we were, you know, you, you don't plan on what to do after your career's over with, really.

Right. So it's like, you know, and then it's over and you're just seeing around like, well, what do I do now? I mean, I'm not the driver anymore or a driver. Yeah. You know, at least into the way you wanted to do it. So, I mean, I mean, and I still struggle with that to this day. but it's hard not to watch, you cup racing or whatever,

but at the same time, I know for me that, you know, the effect it'll have on me. So, you know, again, I just choose not to go down that path. I feel like that, since we're talking about it, if I'm in the broadcast booth working,

it takes away that feeling, but if I tune in, if I'm sitting at home and turn it on, it's not pleasant. It's not. It sucks. Yeah. It's terrible. Like I want to watch it because I need to kind of know what's happening so I can come in here and do this show on Tuesday.

And then when I'm in the broadcast booth a year from now, I kind of have been, I'm just kind of got to, but I'm watching it going, man, I don't, I want to be out there or not at all, right? I can't, it's hard to be a casual fan of it after having seen behind the curtain and been able to experience what it's like. That's fascinating. Hey everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel? Visit shop.durtymomedia.com. We're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a t-shirt.

Again, check it out at shop.dirtymomedia.com. Let's talk about the crashes. You've recently had some brain surgery. When was that? It's been about two years ago, yeah. Yeah. What was that for? Had what's called a Cusick neuroma,

which is basically a tumor on the back of your brain. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, it was not cancerous tumor. It's just like a fatty tumor or whatever. Really? And, yeah, and so. Why do you think you had that? What is?

I asked the doctor, I was like, is it because I hit stuff or whatever? And he said, no, you just got lucky. Jesus. And again, I mean, part of it was ego because we all have it. And I knew sitting down in a dirt car, I was not as good as I thought I should be behind the wheel, you know, because, I mean, my background is dirt racing. So, you know, automatically, I felt like as a driver, you just know when you're not performing, right? You know, so I said, well, let me go get checked.

So I got checked and they did scan, you know, whatever, all that stuff. And I can't, you know, so I, you know, nowadays you have to go to a specialist and another specials and another specialist. And so I went in the doctor's office there and sat down and my x-ray was up on the computer screen. And I have no idea what I'm looking at at all. But I knew that different color mass in the center was. not supposed to be there. Yeah. And that's when the doctor said.

He goes, yeah, because you've got a brain tumor. And he goes, it's got your spinal cord push way, way over. Really? And as I learned, evident, it's a fairly slow growing tumor. So I think I probably had it, you know, obviously in the Cup series as well. Wow, really? And so, I mean, again, you want to take it, you know, use that an excuse of why you didn't run good sometimes.

You never know. Yeah, you never, you don't know what happened. So where, so they had to go in there and get this out. Even though it wasn't cancerous, they had to remove it because of what it might be doing to your spinal cord and making things, you know, complicated and having some issues down the road, right? So they go in there and it's caused some changes in your, in your cognitive abilities and so forth. And so how hard have you worked, I guess, to get back as much as you can? What's that

process been like? Yeah, probably not as hard as I should have for sure. I mean, it's easy to get discouraged, right, when you're trying to recover stuff. But I mean, I can't hear at all out of my right ear. It had to cut the nerves. Okay. Because the tumor had grown up into my ear canal. And you would think, you know, no more rain than I have, you could get in inside and play tennis or whatever, but evidently it's kind of tight quarters. So it took a couple surgeons. There are two surgeons.

Really? Yeah, to go in there. Two different surgeries? Yeah, two different surgeons at the same surgery. Oh, my God. Yeah. And so they went there and cut it out and, you know, going in, you know, they said, well, you know, may have to end up cutting your facial nerve, which is.

ends up making your face droop on one side, kind of like a stroke, whatever. And yeah, so, you know, so everything to do with them on right side, right side leg, right side arm, right side ear, all that stuff, he just basically, it sucks really. I mean, you know, I mean, I've gotten better, but the doctor always told me he goes,

you'll have, you know, you recover and feel okay, and then you go downhill, and he goes, And after about two years, where you're at is where you're at. You're not going to, you may get a little bit better in some things just by repetition. Yep. But, yeah, so I'm pretty much, you know, as good as I am right now going to get. How have you managed that emotionally and what kind of support have you had to navigate such a challenging thing? Emotionally, I don't know if I'm the best person to ask.

I think I'm doing okay. I mean, you just kind of have to adjust to the new norm, I guess, really. But, I mean, I find myself all the time, you know, telling the guy, so I'll, yeah, bring that car in. I'll, you know, do this and do that. And then I discovered that I can't. I can't do it. I mean, I'm not coordinated.

I have no balance. I walk around like I'm drunk. I can't talk right. Not that ever could, but it's even worse now. I mean, it's just like, it's really, really easy to, you know, get down on yourself. Sure. And, you know, but I don't know. I mean, I have enough stuff to keep me busy to kind of keep my mind off the fact that I'm not, you know, as good as I was.

Yeah. What are some of the things that do, that you do enjoy doing that keep your mind busy? We ended up renting race cars out for guys who don't really have the time to, you know, to be involved in the sport. They just want, just kind of an arrive and drive kind of thing. So, yeah, I actually I kind of enjoy that aspect of it given other people of the opportunity and going out and seeing myself run well.

Yeah. Where do you all race? Pretty much everywhere there's dirt. Yeah, from Florida to Pennsylvania. So you're still traveling a lot? Yeah, not as much as I was. And now it's in the backseat of a truck as opposed to a jet or whatever.

Yeah, those days are all. Yeah. It's long, long for sure, yeah. But, you know, I mean, it's... That's still probably more fun. Yeah, I mean, I tried... I started crew chief and some payment stuff, you know. Yeah.

And, but I mean... What do you think about that? I realized that a guy was tight getting in over Hickory. And so I said, well, come out on pit road, flip the hood up a little bit, and you slid a 3-32nd packer in and sent him back out there. And it went from being tight to spend an... out. And right then I come in the conclusion, I had no business being messing with a payment

car. It's like, it can be frustrating. Yeah, on a dirt car is much, much, it's not easier, but you can make a bigger swing. A window, yeah. I haven't learned that lesson yet. I'm still messing with the late models. Frustrating. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. The, uh, the crash at Fontana in 2007, um, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, had some concussion issues, went through some experiences with that. You had a 2011 crash at Watkins Glen with David Reagan that was just insane. Still show that one day. Insane.

I don't remember the 2004 Texas wreck, but you had some crashes, you know. I've had my share of experiences with concussions and going through the process of trying to you know, get in front of the right person to get well and how well can you get, you know, all those things. I've, I've experienced it with, what was your, I guess, you know, how challenging was that? And did you have, you know, did you have a hard time recovering? Did you, did recovery come easy? Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, I'll, I had several concussions even before one conversation, right? You know, and so, again, it just always comes back to the fact that I was so concerned about being let go,

you wouldn't allow anybody else to get in that race car no matter how bad a job you did. Yeah. So it was like, so you never really gave yourself the chance to recover. Yeah. And at that time, NASCAR was obviously a little bit different. They weren't as strict on concussions. and stuff. Yeah.

So, I mean, you could kind of fake it, really, and, you know, give the right answers to the questions and going down the road knowing that you were messed up, you know, and then, you know, get behind the wheel. And, again, you just don't, you know, as a driver, you don't really think about hurting anybody else or yourself or whatever, you're just going out and racing. So, you know, you can't not get in the seat. Yeah, exactly. Because, again, you know, in my mind, if I was out of the seat, I was.

I could be replaced. Yeah. He's afraid somebody could get in your car, run a little better. Yeah. And that's all it took. That's all. Yeah, that's it. Right?

Because then you've lit in this fuse where you're still going to get back in the car, but now they're looking at the other guy or somebody's looking at them going, hey, what is he got? Yeah, exactly. Can you do that in my car? Yeah, I got hurt in, uh, I rank somewhere. I can't remember where, but we went, uh, we went, uh, we went. to Richmond the next week, and I spun out at the flagstand. I was lost.

Couldn't feel the car. Car could be sideways, and I couldn't tell, you know. I didn't realize, I guess, how bad I was until I spun out. And I'm like, you know, I was going backwards before I realized I was going backwards. And I know, I guess the Fontana wreck looked pretty bad. You know, and I raced herd a couple weeks. I got hurt in 2012, and I probably, I ran the next three or four weeks with issues and symptoms. And finally, like, the fourth week, I'm like, I think I'm finally out of the woods here.

And then wrecked at Talladega and ended up getting in real bad shape. You know, you raced hurt? how did you manage you know trying to you know race smart enough to give yourself the chance to kind of wake up one day and go all right there it's gone

yeah well for forcing I wasn't uh I think that the the head stuff is harder to overcome than the physical stuff is I mean if you break a bone or just okay something I mean heck I can remember being in crashing Daytona and they were trying to fix the car, you know, and put it back together.

I was still sitting in a seat. My shoulder was partially dislocated because I hit so. So, Boba Kennedy just reached in there and shoved on it and put it back in. And I was good. And I didn't think nothing more about it. So it's like, I mean, again, you know, it all comes back again. And I keep saying over and over again, the thought, the fear of getting. firing, overpowered,

anything else that was, I thought may have been wrong with me, you know. So I would just, you know, I knew I had to get back in the seat. In my mind, there were people counting on me. Again, what would you do if you could do it different? Would you? Would you change anything?

I don't think, yeah. The only thing I think I would change is probably, I would enjoy the, ride a lot more than I did. You know, I mean, I would probably take a little bit weight off my shoulders and try to look around and say, hey, you know, this is pretty special because it is. It is. And, but I never, you know, I never, I never thought that far ahead, really.

It's like, you know. Yeah, you wouldn't allow yourself to, yeah, soak in a moment. Yeah. Not at all. I mean, even after you win, because you know how it is after you win, you know, you're supposed to do it. You have like, you know, you do media, like a Monday and Tuesday. And then like Wednesday rolls around, well, it's all done with.

You have to go do it again. Yeah, back to zero. Yeah. So it's like you're only, we always have saying, you know, you're only as good as your last race, right? Yeah. And so, yeah, that's kind of mentality I always add. Yeah. You talk about the, you know, the frustration of not being able to finish things like you want.

help me understand what about the ending of your career is the disappointing part I think when I got let go at MWR there towards the end of the season I should have just stopped then I mean I drove for some other teams I drove for tall but Tommy ball went for a while and for a year and but again I mean those guys they didn't just have the resources. It was no fault of theirs. They just didn't have the resources at that time to put a car

together that was capable of running in their top five or whatever. So yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I just, at that point when they let me go, I just should have stopped and maybe had a chance to come back,

but I kept going. And then after three or four or five bad races people kind of tend to forget you ever won at all so I mean in my case that was always the case I mean so it was like well

you know and when I stepped away from the overall cup side I was like well I'm not going to get a chance to race anything good anymore I don't I admire the guys who can you get to be there but I just don't want to be there you know I mean I just want to I mean either like like you said earlier

you either be involved or not involved, you know, but there's no in between for the most parts. Yeah. Was the deal, how the deal ended at Michael's difficult? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was extremely difficult for me.

Because, again, you know, I think I've heard the term used before. It's just business, you know. But it's just business if it happens to somebody else. If it happens to you, it's not just business. And I took the racing side of things very personal. And so, yeah, I mean, it was difficult. But I mean, have you had the chance to talk to Michael? No, not really, no.

I mean, I think we ran across each other, cross each other's paths at the dirt truck race at El Dora. He was announced on something like that. And he came over for a little bit. I really haven't had much of a chance to talk to Michael at all. What do you think would make you feel better about it? Still be doing it. Still be doing it, I guess, really.

I mean, but yeah, I mean, at the end, I mean, you know, there's two sides of every story, right? And I wish I wish I was still doing it. But the same time, I mean, it's a, It's a young guy's game, right? It is. Yeah, I mean, drivers get younger and younger and younger. And I was, I mean, I was way too old to do that stuff anymore anyway.

But, yeah, I mean, I think at this point, if I had a chance to talk to any individual that was responsible for that, I just wouldn't. Because all it does is just make those people feel better about the situation. It's not going to do anything for me. So I was like, well, I might as well I'll keep my eyes shut. So. Yeah. You end up ending your NASCAR career,

uh, after 2014, um, you went back to dirt. Mm, racing. How long did you race dirt cars? Oh, geez, since I was,

no, 13. After your retirement. Oh, after your retirement. How many years did you get? Um, well, I mean, I'd always race dirt on occasion, you know,

hit and miss stuff. You know, so, I mean. During your cup career? Yeah, during your cup racing, yeah. And so, yeah, I never really stopped racing, drug. And then I just went into, again, you know, knowing in the back of my head that, you know, this deal's not forever as far as the cup racing. And so you have to figure out what you're going to do at some point. And so the only thing I knew how to do was, you know, build cars.

Yeah. So that's kind of what I did. Yeah. And so you drove, though, for a couple more years? Yeah, I drove up until, I think my last race was at East Bay Raceway a couple years ago. Damn. And yeah, and then at that point. Because I knew there's too much work.

And, again, you can assess there's too much work in preparation and money at any level in racing, but at the dirt modified level to be. the one who holds you back. You know, so the driver can't hold you back. You have to, you know, if you have the best motor or good motor, good tires, good car, good crew, but behind the wheel you're not doing your job, well, then you shouldn't do it. Yeah. And so, you know, at that point, I was like, I let other people do it because I just didn't

feel in my heart that I was going to do a very good job. When you went to that first race, you made, okay, let's dig into this. This is for my benefit. When you made the decision that, hey, I'm the one holding us back, and you went to that next race with somebody else climbing in the car, right? Did you enjoy that weekend? No. You didn't.

No. Did you find a way where going and doing it that way was enjoyable? Did you figure out a way to get over? I figure out a way to make it more tolerable. Damn it. That's not what you wanted to hear, right? But, I mean, you kind of adjust, make adjustments and do things like that. But in your mind, even if you have, you know, if you have A.J. Ford driving your stuff,

in your mind, you could still probably do a better job, right? So, I mean, that's. I wish you were in there. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, you know, so you're out there watching your car race around. And so I had to change hats a little bit. from the driver mentality to the car owner mentality. So I was like, so then you start calculating how much tires cost,

how much fuel costs, how much motors go forward. Because it's not for you. Yeah, so it's like, that didn't matter when you were driving. When I was driving, I would wreck stuff and get out and say, oh, well, you know, give me another one. I'll go again. But now it's not the same. I've enjoyed this conversation.

I'll be honest with you. I didn't know about your brain operation. I didn't know about how it changed you as a person. I knew that we had a little common ground on some head injury stuff from back in our driving days. But to see you come in here today and hear your story about what you've had to deal with over the last couple of years has been a bit inspirational, honestly. Listen, nobody knows what it's like to be you, but you. but I think there's some people in our industry that understand how physical injury

turns you into a new version of yourself and there's things that will never be as great as they once were and age can do that as well, just general age, but I want to tell you how much I admire you for coming here today and just being transparent and talking about it. and I think that your I think that your career,

your wins, your ability to get to the top level, your stictuitiveness to get there at 35 years old, to grind out the grassroots short track career you had before your days in the Cup Series, to leave the sport and go race at the dirt local short track, and the grassroots level beyond your cup career are admirable things. I really do. There's a lot of guys, you shrug your shoulders, but there's a lot of guys that once they

are done with the cup, they don't do anything. But then there's the guys like Ricky Red will go jump on a go-kart for five or ten years beyond its cup racing and still need to scratch an itch. and I admire like the shreders and the people that just need to do it. Yeah. You know, and even if you didn't get to do it as long as you wanted to, the fact that you walked away from Cup and after you saw everything that was there, you met the Wizard of Oz, right, and you went back home and still climbed in that dirt car

and went down the road and had fun. says that you were doing it all for the right reasons, you know, and that you didn't forget kind of what the real reason was that drove you to the racetrack in the first place. The people like that have a heart for it, have a love for motorsports, for racing that's pure. And so I appreciate that about you. I think a lot of people are going to love knowing where you are today.

and what you're doing. You're one of, we, we kind of got it to a point in the season during our show where we reached out to people online and social media about who they wanted on the show. And that's why you're here. People wanted to hear from you. People want to know where you are, what you're doing. Well, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a bit of a shock because, I mean, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm just, I'm just a guy that was, I, I tell people all the time. I was on the same ladder as a lot of the superstars were,

but I was not at, you know, I was not at the top of the ladder. I was, you know, somewhere in between. And so, I mean... Well, not many people got to the top of that letter. But you got on the ladder. Not many people even see the ladder. I feel like you'd be surprised, David, about how many people care about you

and want to know where you are and what you're doing. and you, you know, you're part of the story. We're all like a, we're all a page or two in this book of the sport and the history of the sport, right? And your story is a good one. And, you know, anybody that can get in, anybody that can ever get to that, there's kids that are racing today, driving our late models and racing at those dirt tracks and racing those dirt cars you're building that'll never run a lap at the cup level, right? They never run a lap.

And you got all the way up there and won races. And so I feel like that's one thing I wish you had perspective of, if I could give you that today, is how profound, I guess, is just to have gotten there and seen it and being able to experience it and race on the track with you. I had a lot of fun racing you. Yeah.

Generally, you were so far in front of me. I couldn't see. You got a roll in there there around 2009, 2010. You were pretty impressive, how y'all built that thing up. Yeah, that's one thing I probably missed most about the sport as the people that they were behind you. That's one thing you missed. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you came by today.

Thank you. Thanks for coming in here telling us what your story is. And, yeah, I'll be wondering what you're off to do next. Sounds good. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Dave Ruhnman on the Dale Jr. Download. That was a really emotional conversation there. I really, David got up from the table and said he hadn't really talked about

what he's been dealing with for the past couple of years with anybody. And I don't feel worthy of being the person. person that he shares, you know, I don't feel worthy of being the outlet, I guess, for that bit of information. But pretty serious. Outside of the brain surgery and how that's obviously affected him physically and affected his memory and who knows what all's become more challenging for him. But outside of that, that's tough as it is, I really have, my heart breaks for a lot of the guys that come in here and talk and have this very almost heartbreak themselves over how their career finished. If you bring in 10 veterans, right, 10 retired guys, seven of them might tell you, man, it didn't end like I wanted it to.

Or it didn't, or I don't have a great thing to say about how it ended. And that sucks. And that's what's in front of all the guys that are doing it now, you know. there's a day and you know down the road where you either you either get to end it on a good note or an you get to end it more so really on an acceptable note i don't think there's anybody that ends it on a high they just might get lucky enough to end it in a tolerable way where most of them don't get to finish it how they wanted it to finish um And, but at the same time, I see David and I see him and those other seven guys, right, that come in here and say they weren't happy how it finished.

And I'm like, man, you know, we got to, we got to remember to use something from David's conversation that we got to get on that ladder. And a lot of people don't. I remember when I was 20, looking at the cup grid on Sunday. day going, gosh, I just want to be one of those guys one day. And I didn't want nothing more than that. I just wanted to be a cup driver and I wanted to make a living. I wanted just enough to pay utilities, right? You get that, you attain that, and then you want to win. And then you win and you didn't even want to win again. And then you want to win more and more and more. And when you get to the finish, you get to the end of that career, your expectations have won. And then you want to win.

went from, man, I just love to be out there to, well, I want to win six races every year, all the way to the finish. And I don't have a plan to shut it off. And it gets shut off. Most time it gets shut off for you. And you're kind of, you know, you kind of hit with this reality of, wow, you know, I don't get to have this all my life. And there is a couple guys like David that don't get to have it.

you know it kind of their robe gets cut short pretty pretty quickly but you know it's just tough because i want him to walk out of here feeling better about it you could tell that it's some disappointment there and he's he's kind of ho-hum about the whole idea of even making it to cup and winning a race or two when honestly man that's pretty incredible and uh anyways uh you know i think It'd be good. Hopefully. Usually people tell me that after they do this show, they get a ton of people that reach out to them

that they haven't heard from in years. Even Josh Schneider, when he did a remote show with us this summer, he's like, I got texts and calls from friends I hadn't seen or heard of and forever. And I know that happens with actual racers, right, that do this show. And I can't wait for him to leave and for this show to get published and for those calls and text messages and so forth to get. to get to him and hopefully

give him some more perspective on his impact and mark on the sport. I always felt like that and I think doing the shows made me feel this way. Maybe before doing this show I only felt like certain people left an impact, right? Or you had to be a heavy hitter

to like really leave a mark. But I've learned doing this show that everybody all the mechanics, crechees, regardless of success, regardless of accolades and statistics, they left an impression.

They changed people's lives one way or another. They influenced different people in the shop or amongst their friends and relatives or whatever. They change people's lives somehow, some way. So, anyways,

great conversation, pretty emotional. And, um, I hope, that y'all enjoyed it. Y'all asked for David, and we all got more than we anticipated, and I'm thankful that we got the chance to talk to him today.

So it's time the white flag. All right, the tear down was live on YouTube and Twitter following the race. If you hadn't already, go over to Dirty Mo Media's YouTube page, hit subscribe, turn on notifications. You won't miss anything, including the tear down. Action's detrimental dropped on Monday following Denny's 59th win, almost to 60. Says he's going to get to 70, hopefully. before he calls it a career.

It's a great breakdown of how his race went. Doorbumper Clear also dropped on Monday. Austin Cendrick was the guest. And yesterday, Dirty Air with T.J. came out. Wednesday, Herman Schrader and Speed Street. That's today. And then tomorrow, bless your heart with Amy. On Fridays, we got a new show for you.

It's a highlight reel. 30 minutes long. It's a recap show. If you can't listen to all of our shows, maybe there's a show in our lineup, that you're curious about, but you ain't got time. You already listening to several other things. You just don't have time.

We've got a highlight show for you called The Dirty 30, and it may show you a little bit about what's happening on each and every show, so you get a little bit of a feel for the vibe. And if maybe you're interested in picking up one of our shows that you're not quite listening to on the regular, the Dirty 30 comes out every Friday. All right, that's the show. Hope you guys enjoyed it.

We'll see you tomorrow for Bless Your Heart. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.