The Dale Jr. Download - DJD Classics - Gary Balough: Racing, Fighting & Smuggling

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr has called it “one of the most fascinating stories in all of Motorsports,” as he sat down with Legendary racer Gary Balough to discuss his life on the track and behind bars.  They uncover stories of smuggling marijuana, evading the Feds, getting busted, and how it cost him his career and family.  On track, Balough was a driver who pissed off Richard Petty, got spit on by fans, and was not intimidated by Dale Earnhardt.  Off track, his dangerous lifestyle added to the Legend of “Hot Shoe” Gary Balough. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The guests in our studio today is perhaps the most intriguing guests we've ever had on the download. This is one of the most successful racers ever to strap in a race car yet it's possible you don't even know his name. It's possible that you do. I've heard stories about Gary through the years, rumors and wise tales. So I took it upon myself to read his book. I wanted to know about his past in racing as well as the troubles that landed him in jail. My dad certainly knew Gary. Mark Martin said recently, there are only four people on the planet, not intimidated by Dale and Hart.

Gary Hot Shoe Blue was one of them. I just finished reading Gary's book Hot Shoe. Yes, sir. A checkered pass my story and was blown away by what I read, like this little insert. After racing in 1981, my dad referred to Gary as the dirtiest driving son of a shit. Obviously, have questions about that

because Dad certainly raced against a lot of dirty driving son of shit. He was probably called one on many occasions himself. He was a racing, that's for sure. I also want to know how someone is talented, it as Gary with so much success could get wrapped up in smuggling drugs, a decision that costs Gary 10 years behind bars, his family, and his career. I'm still fascinated by his stories of smuggling drugs. No podcast, no book, or documentary will ever relieve my curiosity about that part of his life.

But one thing I appreciate that I really didn't know I'd take away from the book is how it explained his work ethic and creative approach to racing. For that I tell all my young drivers that reading this book, without a doubt, will make you a better race car driver. that's great. If they can apply Gary's approach to how they prepare their own cars, they will see the results on the racetrack. We've got a lot of questions, Gary.

I'm very thankful that you flew all the way here to answer them. Oh, anytime, man. I'm glad to be here. Yes, sir. We're honored to welcome you to the download. Absolutely. So, you know, many Hall of Fame race car drivers consider you one of the greatest drivers that they've ever competed against.

What do you think made you so good as a race car driver? Work. You know that. People you surround yourself with. You're only as good. the people you surround yourself with. As you read that book, I've never won a race by myself ever, including my very first race.

What's the first race I raced at highly, I won in a hobby saw car. But Buddy Griffin helped me build a race car and helped me build a rear springs and the spindles. And we put a good cage in it and put a seat in. I mean, the doors weren't held shut with seatbelts. They were wallet-shut. You know what I mean? It was high-rodd.

I won 37 races that year. You say air is free. And I try to tell my late model guys the same thing. Can you explain to us what you mean by that? I got off into ERO, because I knew I knew nothing about ERO with a cop car. So I said, I'll never get there. I don't understand none of this. And he got around Pete Hamletton and Ray Stalkis.

Pete was into Arrow with a late model car, you know, and, of course, they wore, he drove from Petty and so forth. He told me, I called my say, this ain't still a little tight getting in. You know, he said, puts more in a nose. Put some more on a nose and it'd be loose getting in. I said, now I'm loose. He said, put some more on the back. You know, okay? Put some more in the front.

What's more in the back? And we kept on and we kept on and said we got a real good balance. And then I got to where I started painting the nose and stuff. And I actually put like two-inch holes in the nose. With a little plate over the top of it, I could move around. I got so balanced underneath. Right. You know, it turned up underneath.

But it was ugly behind somebody else that would lose the air. So then I started moving the nose to the right and left front of the way before the the couple of cards. Right. They're closing the hole up, and I worked on closing the hole up, closing a hole, and pulled way from the bottom. So I just got off into the air, then I got moving the carburetor box around, an air box around, and cheating in the back with a rear spoiler,

and I had some mechanical advantage back there. Sometimes the back would hop up to three more inches, and worked on the roof, and there at the roof up, and worked on the B post A and the B, and turned the A's, and, oh, yeah, but the big advantage I had was that I did get to go right, with a couple cars and see a lot of that. Then I was around Ray and Beatle also with the drag cards.

Raymond didn't know much about air, but what did he know about organizations and people? And as I grew up, like racing the late model cars, Marty Henshaw was Bobby Alton. Yeah.

I mean, he runs sheet metal shops of 70, 80, 100 people, so he was good, really skilled with people. He taught me all of skills of you can have 10 people working on a hot rod, and you know what each one of them were doing, and you're doing, you're doing, you run on top of it, you know.

So that was really good. It's the people that I was around, you know, was incredible. So you began racing in Florida, but you moved to the northeast to run dirt modified in the 70s and dominated up there. You were a hired driver. So was it common to have hired drivers in the 70s? That to me was really surprising to take away from your book, that you were really hired to go drive a car, be the mechanic.

They got a mechanic a little on the cheat because they just pay you a little extra percentage from the winnings. but was there many guys like you in the 70s that were hired to be driving? There was quite a few, you know, to come from South Florida. I got them to deal there. I went, Postone had me go up there with a Turino that was a heavy car, and he had to run it smuckers and so forth. It was a late model car, and it was heavy, and they called him to help me straighten it out, and I said, I don't know much about dirt, you know, but anyway, we got up here,

and I got the cutting torch to it and lightened it up and put some neat stuff on it, I built Springs Fort, a bunch of smuckers, and Scott was the hot dog there then, and Blackie Watt and so forth. The cat that was going to drive, didn't want to drive it. He wanted me to drive him. I know, I'm not racing no dirt.

I don't know anything about that. Well, I had watched him a week before pretty good, and I said, I'll just get behind this cat right here, by wearing and following right to the front, and I did, I followed him in front of my second. Yeah. Well, that got me going in the dirt cars there, and then Millinger picked me up,

and that was a Bobby Allison car. Well, with Bobby, we were pretty tight. So Bobby would help me, and Eddie and him, and we got going pretty good, want some races. Then they called me and said, come on, we rode a modified car. So, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't know about big box in the injectors of fuel. You got to be kidding me. You were making a living as a driver.

Yeah. And so was that a lot of guys doing that? Not a lot of people could have made a living as a driver. That speaks to your talent. People would hire you because they knew they were going to go win races. They knew the car would be better. They knew you would make the car better. Well, let me tell you, when I first would,

to New Jersey. They had a Tobias car. I couldn't hit my both of both hands. I mean, I was ready to come on because I was used to winning races with a late model car at Palm Beach and Highland, and wherever we went and used to run it wherever. It was ugly. I had to run a concede to make the race. And I'd run in the back. I don't run 12, 15, 13th. I'm not doing this. I don't want to do it. How did it fit? How did it fit? I said, no, no, no, no, no. Just stay, say, say. Molligan's building a new car. Well, we'd like to fish, and he'd like to dittle, and it might be my speed. and they said, well, go up there and help him. I said, I love to.

So I got a chance to go up and work a whip in his shop, and we finished the car. Rocket ship. I'm talking about it. I'm back, you know? Yeah. So we went to Heistown at first night. Stan Polacki was a hot dog, and he set it to a starter stand, which I raised asphalt. I like to drive it off in and just set it and then drive it off, you know,

and I turn tires off of it. Well, I come from the back, and I got to him, and he was leading it. And I jumped outside of him like I knew what I was doing. set the car, boom, straight into the glory wheel, the wheel buss at the right front wheel and axle, right rear tube, all that stuff. And part of the wheel went up and hit the starter and broke his leg. So, no, I didn't know I killed a car, but I tried to kill the starter. I ended up in the infield, two records to take it back.

I remember going across my head down, and I can't believe it, wreck this brand new car all this work, you know, like, you're done, jerk, you know? Paul Hittleman had owned it was standing there, and he said, Gary, get your head up. Why do you have your head down? I said, have you seen your hot rod? He said, I've seen it. He said, we're going to a whip tonight and fix it. We're ready to tomorrow night.

Okay. I said, listen, I'll make you a deal. Whatever I make, I'll pay for what I tore up tonight. He said, get out of here. What are you crazy? We went back and we worked all night long. We went to Flemington the next night. It had V-belts on it.

I can remember. It had V-Belmower belt. It had a power steering, stuff. Well, it's got 12, 14 degrees of castor. You know, when you turn it, it lifts you up out of the seat. So I got the balls tight of the can. out of seat. I'm bleeding it. Flemington, square away straight.

I couldn't. My arms were falling on. If I run second, Poloski won it. And he remembers these things. Like it's unbelievable. My arms, my arms hurt so bad. I mean, I'll pump some iron and stuff. You know how your arms filled the next day and all that? And day after and then start sealing. I couldn't even know zip my zipper of pee.

But so it was wipe my butt. They said, come on. We're going to NASA tonight. I said, listen, guys, I can't even lift my arms up. We're coming to get you. I said, no, no, no. Here they come. Drive up in front of the yard. Get in, get in.

I said, you got to be kidding me. Put me in there, put me in the car, and truck moving on to the racetrack. All right, let's get in. And I said, I don't think I can do this. Get in. I got in. They hooked the belts up for me.

That's a member arm's hurt. I went out and I practiced and this thing was rocking it again. I met my arms for Phil Good now. Yeah. We won the first night to 100 Lapper. Yeah. So that was cool. We were on a roll then, you know.

But it took that new car. I mean. How challenging was it to never be able to really establish a long-term foundation moving around so much? I mean, from South Florida, up north and back down to South Florida, being that hired gun. And driving for so many different owners, you were moving and moving and moving all the time. You know, like two best hunters I drove for, I'm going to say, in Florida and Miami area, with Marty Hensho and Johnny Meridino. I always had a ride with them when I come home.

You know, like wintertime, he had to drive for one of the years. depending on where Marty was with Larry and this one and that one and that one and Johnny was for back and so forth and they were pretty good hot rides and I take them and I'd work on a chassis and that's what went to Palm Beach on Friday night I brought some Canada Libra Hoosiers back for 200 Lapper and married I was Memorial and they're round there's no edge on the top you know what me and so we're going to run them Saturday night and 200 lap we went to Palm Beach 50 lapar big block and won the race come back and build a 377 motor we put that in the car and when they put it It didn't enough to plug out underneath the head.

And we fired it up and there's oil flowing everywhere. He said, well, head studs. And the head come back. Okay, here's the plug and put it in. I did it around around about an hour, and I got it in. Full silk cone. They ran ahead back down, never readjust the last or nothing. We went to Hyaliyah.

But they can't leave it, retired, we'd never run. They said, okay, you start in the back. Marty's car was on the pole, real hell. I said, wow, thank you. You know, starting a bag at High League? That's, you know, give me a break. Yeah, in the back. I said, okay.

We started the back, and it was probably 37 cards, 38, 36 cards. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I went to caught Larry. No, he wasn't having to me getting by him. I mean, he and filled, run me to wall.

Marty's car now. I can't run into him. I don't want to run into him. We're friends. And on, and on, and on. Finally, he slipped into where I dove up under him. And he turned down. I hit him in the door,

and he started to spinning, I gassed up a little bit, hit him in the left front, straighten him up. Then he got straight, and I went on. I'm leading it. He's riding around waiting on me.

Well, Marty taught me when they wait on you, drive through them. Don't, no, just drive through them. Okay. You're saying if they're waiting on you to come around so they can take you out, you're saying you always learn take them out. Listen to me. Be aggressive. Be aggressive.

I've hit him head on. Okay. I'll come in the opposite direction. The guy dove behind the pace car at Redding. He ran his mouth in the driver's, and he was going to wreck me and Brideville. I said, whoa, whoa. I drive the red car, a three car. Bright Bill drives the white car.

No. Who are you talking about? I'm not a problem with you. No, not you, not you. I said, don't say, say, what cars are there? The heat race, he nailed me in the left rear pass for the lead. There was probably 14 cars, and the heat race at Redding. O'Bill modifies.

If one of them don't hit you in the face, you're lucky. So nobody hit me. I said, you know what? He run his gator. He was going to do this. All right. I got a fireback up. I watched him.

He went down the back straight away. I said, got to time this right. And I gas her up, down the front straight the wrong way. He came off four. and I was coming down the front and I was coming down the front and I put about a half athal and he seemed to come

and he dove behind the pace car when he did I caught him right front to the right front Wow Oh, Lenny to Piccar Oh you gotta kill somebody Somebody's gonna get it killed

And he stopped everything You know what I'd say Well you know if I could Have got him Reader cap the radio cap I would have Yeah But you know that

You gotta stop it Because if you don't stop it Everybody's gonna take a shot Oh you're right Why back you? Just knock you out Yeah How many

do you know how many feature wins you were credited for? Is there a number or did it get too many to count? We got the other side of a thousand and we just basically quit. I'm going to say someplace between 1,200, something like that. I don't know. Wow.

You get the point of what. So you've had more than a thousand feature wins and you just sort of gloss over the versatility. And that's one of the things that really blew me away in your book is that really how you can go somewhere,

race a different car, different track you've never been at. And you're just talking about following a guy. But most people don't pick up racing that easily. I mean, what is it about you and your adaptability that made you be able to drive just about anything? I think that as far as the racetracks, I excelled on going to a racetrack that nobody had ever raced on. You know, a new racetrack.

We all went there. Okay. It was like, we came out of a trailer, and we would get it quicker. than most just by outthinking I think just being a natural I don't know exactly wow but anytime we went to a new race track

we were always right at the top of the ladder you know what I mean everybody thinks they work hard I mean you ask any racers they're like yeah man my boys been working hard but you guys were seeming like you were smarter like you had something to it

is that am I wrong about that people people's one thing people's a big thing the right people and people work together it's team effort There's no eye in this. It's a team effort. I appreciate what you're saying, and that's right.

But I still think that those, I don't know, I think you're not giving yourself enough credit because a thousand wins is unbelievable. And like Dale was saying, you were bouncing around to a bunch of different people. Yeah, this isn't a thousand wins or something. You're running late miles. You're running ASA in the Midwest. A lot of people. Dick Trickle drove a few different type race cars, but nobody in history of short track racing, I don't think, was so versatile. in that sense.

I think one great example. We've got a lot from the book, but 1973 at the Schaefer 100, you basically bolted two fuel sales in the car. Yes. There was a mandatory fuel stop, and he both, so he, you know, they just,

they would think around the rule book. Cut the bottom, one, blow them together. Right. There can. Because we run 45 gallons, I'll call them things, we run constant light dectors.

So it wasn't nothing the weight. I mean, we worked on that. So I think, and Gary's, Gary was an amazing driver. Should have won it. But from what, yeah, from what I take away from that is he could get in anybody's car and be awesome. But if he could actually work on it a little bit beforehand, he could make it.

I'll think him. He could make it even better because he worked around the rulebook. He didn't break the rules. They didn't say he couldn't run too much. It looks like he might. Let's not go that far. Thank you, Del. I mean, what are some of the craziest things aside?

I mean, that's a great example. Putting two fuel sales together in the car to be able to hold more fuel so you didn't have to take so much fuel and that mandatory stop. They held him in the pits. They held him in the pits because this fuel guy didn't, he didn't do a good enough job to win a Grammy. Faking it. Take the fuel into the car.

What's some of the cool, craziest things you ever done to trick your cars up and even break the rule? Well, Arrow was real big. I mean, we had the back of the car to where. You talk about the car hiking up three inches. Hike it up. There were quarters hiked up. So you put like four inches, five inches, three inches more of a

spilling car, you get off the corner deeper, you know all that. So how did you do that? Mechanically. Yeah. Windy cranks and then probably the most outlandish thing we ever did was run mercury. What is that? Wait, what? So why would you run mercury?

Left side. My car was 60% left side without the driver. Yeah. So how did you do that? Pumps. Stane those cans? Yeah. The frame rail to frame rail.

And it pumped mercury from one side of the other. Yeah. Wait what? you're on the racetrack or how you're in the pits. Happy, you went through tech. Right. Yeah. Incredible.

That's amazing. Yeah. So, Darrell Waltrowe. Yeah, it was nothing in the rules because you couldn't do that at the time. Yeah. Hey, you got to where EPA and all that stuff, boy. Yeah. But I imagine how many rules have been created because of you, like, because of your stunts.

I mean, I bet there's a bunch. I'll tell you a good story. I had a fireball, and I'd move from the left side to the right side. It was like 41 pounds in full mercury. So it's pretty hard to get that under the stairwell and get it from the right side and the low side. But one concord, it got caught, and the stairwell was about across the lap, cool down a lot. I won it. Yeah.

I couldn't get it over. I was in trouble, you know what I mean? So I thought, what I got to do? I rolled up off before him. I passed out. I was exhausted. I pulled off, went down in the infield and just pulled up the inside guard row and bumped a little bit, and they all come running. I was right, move it, move it, get it over there.

Yeah. Ray got it over there. Then we got to the scale, but the fuel and everything. I think we're about three pounds light. And then back and forth, back and forth, we stuffed it. We shook it with everything, you know? They got quick change gears. They come up with great change gears, and I put them on pockets.

Well, I go getting a hot rod, the cop once to pat me down. Get away from me, man. What's wrong with you? Do you nuts or what? And I got to call and we finally made weight, you know. Dang. A cop was patting you down? pat him.

Pat him down, man. Get in the race car. Get away from me. What do you think you are? That is amazing. Well, they do that stuff at the snowball derby now. I mean, you know. Ricky Brooks is the best best inspector I've ever seen anywhere, any place.

Oh, yeah. He's better than DEA drug dog. Well, you know that, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The local racing in the 70s and 80s was a wild affair. How many physical, I know you were a fighter? How many physical fights you think you've been mixed up in?

As many wins? We, as many features we know. What do you have more of wins or fights? Probably close. We got to highly go to a fight, a gunfight and a knife fight, and maybe it would be a race breakout. I'm telling the partner that there was rough. They were a gangster, man. I raced with gangsters.

They were gangsters. Okay, so that might be one reason. I don't know where El Capone was. He should have been there. Maybe he was there. Maybe. So you got in a lot of fights. A lot of dust-ups.

And you mentioned some in the book. Give us one that just stands out in your early days that you had to really just... You're talking about having to stand your ground to people. Give me a good fight story. I tell you one of the one of the butt beat. Bill Flingo was late in the race one night, and he was the president of the organization.

And who is it? Bill Flingos. Okay, all right. And I run him down, Marty's going to caught him and tried to get by him. He's all over a race sack. Finally, I got under him and turned him around. He waited on me. Well, you know what happened?

You run him over? I'm gonna sit. Seat, so you just plumb Ryan Antoine him. Marty said you did good. Yeah, look at your outright. He said, I don't care. We'll put it.

You fix it. Yeah. He didn't mess with you again, right? No, that was over. Till in the parking lot, when the races were over. Oh. Uh-oh. What happened there?

Well, they surround me. And there was more than me and it beat out of me. Really? Oh, yeah. I got a good out of beating there. With that being said, my brothers were pretty crazy. They liked to fight, and there were fights all the time in high living. I mean, my dad was a lot of them.

I mean, my dad was a police officer, but my brothers were pretty wild. They come to the race act the next week with me with guns. They're all the guns there now. You don't want to be without a gun. Yeah. And hi, Leah, that was a rough place. I mean, for the fans listening, you're talking about some of the great racers in motorsports history coming out of there. You're talking about Bobby Allison, of course, is the benchmark name that everybody knows.

Donnie Allison, the Anderson. So many people cut their teeth down in that Miami area, which now is like a ghost- town of racing. But in the day, there were so many hot talents coming from that area. And, you know, there was a lot of money down there, but there was also a lot of incredible talent. Well, I thought about that and thought

about that. Bobby Brackard, I've talked about it. It's such a hard race track. It's flat and it's a third. It's all rhythm. And you've got to learn to pick the throttle up good there and back the corner up and so forth. And I believe that's what a race is. I say to myself, why was Peeley so good, Gilhern? And Bobby Brack and Dickie Anderson

and Bobby Allison and Donnie Allison and Rags Carter and all them guys, how come that were so good? And that's a crap old race track, you know? It's not a good race track. We didn't have a very good playground in our backyard. Palm Mettos people in Palm Beach was way better how you live. Yeah.

That's why. You won two races in your career with your seatbelts came undone. I mean, I just my pants and pulled into the pit. The first time with Marty was Marty's car at Highland. I came in on cocky. I had a little seatbelt on and he said What did you just say?

I said The seatbelt Come on about halfway too He said I got my sleeve caught in it He didn't have it turn right Yeah He said no way

I said yeah He said I ought to beat your butt Right now He said if you ever drive My race car again With the seat belt off I'm gonna beat the Living's

out of you And I said I just wanted a race He said I don't really care If you want to race Yeah That was the first time Now the second time

I was in my own car In Texas Does that make it safer? No. No. And I'm leading the race. I'm trying to win a point in time.

I'm going to stop. I'm going to driving off of Freddie and all them guys. And he had a caution. I come over. I said, I'm trying to get this belt hooked up. What? I said, a belt come loose.

I'm trying to get the belt hooked up. And Ray says, what are you talking about? I said, seatbelt come loose. It's off. He thought you might be talking code. I said, they're getting ready to restart. I said, Ray, just run down, sit there with a spotter and tell them. I have no seatbelt.

I'll let them go. I'm not going to race them. But I am going to stay to lead a lap. I'll race them that hard. Yeah. So he told them all that, and we were on about 15, 20 laps that belt was off. And I said, oh, this is stupid. But you still, but you didn't stop.

No, ain't stopping. Oh, geez. Probably it did it cause you come back out and I pulled off the side. I got the balls back on. I went to the back. We won it. You want it. I want it.

Of course you did. Yeah, if I've had to pull out, I wouldn't want it. That's right. I guess so. I don't know. He wouldn't have pulled out neither. I don't know. I'm freaked out.

I don't know. They got rules these days that probably make you, which makes me wonder how you have. Those in-car cameras will do something to you. I mean, I wonder how well you would fare today. Like if you were racing in this generation and these kids, let's forget the seatbelts and stuff, but just in today's, you know, race cars. I mean, you guys took race cars and made them your own. I mean, you would, could you do it today

and apply everything that you were so good at? His dad and I and all of us way back, we built our own roads cars. I mean, it's a tubing off the rack. We've built our own cars. We built our own spindle. We get four-five spindle from a junkyard and build a lot of it. I built a fixture, and I built a fixture

and some jigs for leaves, brings to rate them. And we used to use a bottle of jack with a gauge on it and a piece of aluminum at the right front tire and jack it up, jack it up, pull it in to a pull in, and we didn't see what the split was before we had scales. I mean, we had a bottlejack with a gauge before we ever had scales, you know, but we were that far ahead of buddy.

Then we'd flat put the car from the front to the back and Jackson's under it and... So your answer is probably not because they don't do that these days, you know? I still work with late model teams right now as far as bump springs and bump rubbers and Packers and all that, yeah, and shocks and all that. I still do all that.

Okay, see. I still do all that. Yeah, but could you drive? I'm going to tell your story. We're putting a Seneca car together with Mike Garvey right now. Oh. In Pensacola. Okay.

Terry wants me to make a lap with a car and so the car. He said, you just got to drive this. Go car. You got to drive this. You got to drive it. I'm done. This is recently? Yeah, no.

We're doing it right now. Oh, okay. Put another car together right now. All right. When that car is done, we go to Berlin, I'm going to make some laps. I don't care. I'm going to make some lives. I just want to set the out wrong.

Sure. I want to see what that's sitting in the middle of it. I mean, would any of us be surprised if we come back and find out that he laid down the record, the track record and fascist lap ever. Yeah. Well, here's the deal. Just digging. I'm probably picking one of the hardest asphalt tracks

in the country, Berlin. True. True. Dick Tricker went there twice, and the second time he went to and knocked the mud on the car and set the car on fire. Yeah. Burns the card down. Give you 30 minutes, you'll have it figured out. 30 minutes. Maybe 45. I just want to sit in a thing and make a few laps, that's all.

You still got it. You still got that thing inside. That's what's so hard for me to go to a show car, to go to some place and do a boat siding or whatever. all the work to get that thing unload and set it all up and not get to make a lap. Right. It's a bad movie, man. That thing is a legend.

Just making a lab, all your frustrations and everything that's inside you goes away because you just get tunnel vision and you get in just what you're doing. And it just... Yeah. You talk about your experience with fans throughout the book. Getting ugly, getting abusive,

like at Middletown one night when Buzzie Ruderman's car caught your tire and he flipped. The fans like an outsider coming in and beating their hero occasionally, but not all. But not all of a while. Just for a while. You went too much, you become a villain. After a feature went in South Florida, someone threw a cinder block off an overpass. I know.

It busted the windshield out of your truck. Yeah. I mean, for the longest time. Let me tell you that story real quick. Yeah, let's hear it. I love that story. I beat Dickie. I beat Peewee.

I was trying Peeley's car. And this summer. They had a good year tire test. And he kind of left me out, and I was doing all the test for a good year. What happened? He called me, needed more wheels. Bring wheels.

I said, I want to bring the car. Bring the car. Well, they drew straws, and I got the good set of tires. That's right. So I beat him. Well, he wouldn't even talk to me. Shut the elevator door on my face.

I said, I was going home. I was with Uncle Herbert telling him. We loaded up, and we head south. And the guy throws a block off the bridge. Bust the wind show all in our face. Jesus. Are you driving? Could have killed?

He could have killed you. Uncle Harbour's job. He pulled off the side of the road. He just wigged out. Maybe you turn him, went across the road, went back. I said, what are we doing? He said, I'm going to kill him. I said, whoa, ho.

Go back, he turned and come back. Pull off the side of road, and he ran up the hill and had a nine-millimeter, and he started loading that thing. I'm begging him to stop, but you go kill somebody. I'm trying to kill him. What did you just do with us? What did you do to us? I said, whoa, this is bad.

You know, come on, we'll just get a windmill for this thing. Get home. Yeah. So we got some duct tape out and taped her up and got to the house, bought a new windshield. So what, so for the longest, I don't,

for the longest time in your career, you had a difficult relationship with fans at particular tracks. Crowds, you know, would, would give you the finger, boo you. Oh yeah.

You were giving, spit on me. You were, yeah, spit on you. Really? You were giving the officials the finger and the crowd thought you were doing that.

I've done that before. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. I was getting, I got, I was getting thrown out of a race

at Hickory Motor Speedway and flipped off the tower and obviously the fans are in between me and the tower and they thought I was giving them the bird so that ruined my reputation of Hickory for about a decade. You ever been banned from a racetrack? Oh yeah, highly

put it out for life. Really? Yeah, I won a 200 lap over there and afterwards that the Candlea retired. But Larry was the president at the time and a lot of politics and they took the race from me. I kept the trophy. I said, well okay, yeah, I'll get

the trophy. Bring your trophy back you're out of here for life. I said, I'm bringing a trophy back. I thought about it. I'm home for the winter. I got a coup de rite. I could win a bunch of races. This is stupid.

Just go eat some crap and do what you've got to do. So I went back out to the board beating and humble pie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever you want to do. I give the trophy back. They had to kill me. Because I give the trophies to all the kids and stuff. I don't care. I used to, I'd rather raise for the trophy than the money.

He'd rates for a living. And so I get a trophy back to him. speed off. They had a 50 lapper like two weeks later and Brax driving off. He passed being in the outside and went on. Couldn't catch him, couldn't do nothing. It was over. And about five laps ago, he

coasted off into the infield. Boats a quick change gears and I won it. I won it a trophy twice. You got it back. I got it back. So one of the coolest things... And I got thrown on a nudge for that. But I came down to...

I came down to Front Strata with the opposite direction doing it. Yeah, well. Oh. That was probably one did. You're getting ready to start the race. They got one of three and four, you know what I mean? Yeah.

I had won the qualifier for Nazareth's, for Syracuse. And we figured out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Nazareth was a qualifier for the big Syracuse race. I won that. We went back and we were testing a set of injectors. Lucas time injectors, which was on gas. Because he could run, constant flow on gas, which could make them work.

Right. So we got time injectors and put on it. the ink was still what on the paper outlawed it Nazareth. So they made that rule just for you that day? Yeah, that day. That day. That day.

And so what did you do? And here I am representing them. Yeah. And then what did you do then? Because you said that ultimately got you kicked. Yeah, what did you do? You got out of France Australia, shooting them all bird. They knocked the fence down and come over the fence and it was ugly.

It wasn't nice. I know that. So then he said, you're out of here, man. You're done. Jerry Friedger, you're done for life. That's it. Yeah. And very old call him up and talk to him, my boss.

Well, anyway, we're going to let him come back to come over here and apologize to everybody. Oh, they wanted you to apologize. Yeah, so I'd bump on the front straightway with my boss apologizing to the world, you know? What was that like? Hard. How does the race car drivers don't apologize a lot. I don't know if y'all know this or not. We're always right.

You're always right. So they made you get on the loudspeaker and apologize to the crowd? Yeah. Hey, the key is you apologize to the crowd, not to the tower, though, right? One of the biggest signs. It wasn't about the crowd. It was about the tower. I think one of the biggest signs of respect that you can show his drivers

to put a bounty on him in 1994. You had a $500 bounty on yourself at New Somer in a Speedway, meaning anybody that came in there and beat you got an additional $500 from the track. Do you remember all the bounties? The highest bounty that you might have had? That was one of them. They'd done it several times, but I used to tell Clyde all the time, I said, how come I don't get paid extra?

You know what I went? He said, no, no, no. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did? But that was a pretty neat deal. We won 67 out of 79 races that year. That whole. Yeah, that was what?

So that's where that thousand number comes from. If you win 67 races a year. Yeah, that chips away at that big number. What year was that? 94. 94. Yeah. So 94, you go down there, you win 60.

And I quit. I'd quit. I'd retire. Yeah, this is your retirement tour. Working for James. All that, you know. And I went down to help Peewey out. they struggled with a car and stuff, a handker car,

and it was all my self. He said, but driving a new summer in the next track. I said, I'm about getting him fall a bikini and all that. No, no, he's not going to job, no. I don't. And all the vial springs broke. I said, people, what are you doing? You're a racer.

You know about this. You've won racists and races and rages and rages. You've got to get the hot run right in the garage. We worked, we worked, we worked, went back, and we won, and we won, and we won, and we won. And every week, he'd show up to the racetrack with a car running into trailer. He fired up, born an oil up in the trailer. The door would be open. I'd be waiting on him and he'd get there in time.

Practice is over. He said, you don't know practice. You race on it years. I said, yeah, but you'd change everything on it this. We tried a couple things. And you go out for the heat race and you'd hang on and you'd win it. But come back and say, put the car back. What are you doing?

You raced all the way through the 60s and 70s trying to strive to get your first opportunity in NASCAR. Your first cup race was 1979 Daytona 500. Yes. That's an iconic race, obviously, because of the finish between Richard Petty and, I mean, Donnie Allison, Richard Petty went in the race, Kale Yarbril, Bobby Donning and all them fighting down there in the corner. A few questions. You're driving for Billy Harvey.

You blew a few motors in speed weeks. Eventually, you got a short-track block from Grand Adcocks. Exactly. Or short block from Grand Adcocks. So the block itself is destroyed in the other engine. You borrowed the heads from one blown motor. You barred the intake from the other blown motor to put that together to be able to qualify for the race.

Obviously, that's not how you're used to doing it, right? Because all your short track stuff is a first class operation. Five motors. We were broken. We were down in the infill and on fire and across the front of hell to tell you. How exciting that gets. You know what I mean? Like, how I didn't kill myself or hit somebody else or wrecked really bad?

I don't know. That's before the race. Yeah. That's before the race. I said, I'm done with that. I'm not doing no more of that guys. Yeah.

And that's what we got to Grand A Cock Motor. That was the H-Bother. So this is the 1979 Daytona 500. We run out of the top five with that thing all day long. But this is fascinating to me. Because I think one of the underlying things

through your book, and I think that's important note for your career, was that you wanted to get to NASCAR your whole life. Oh, yeah. You were killing it in late models and killing it modifies,

but let it be known that you were trying to get to the top. I had a chance to run in Annapolis cars several times. And I bailed out. I didn't do it. Turn it down. Good rides with AJ. So you get to this chance to race in the 1979 Daytona 500, which is an iconic race.

And this is your first race, correct? Yeah. And Dale's talking about you blowing five motors and all that stuff. But I'm curious because I'm reading about it. And it doesn't seem like at any time you stopped to recognize that I made it. I'm like I've been trying my whole life to get here did you or were you so laser focused on that race car and the fact that you were going through a motor or two

oh yeah did you stop trying to make the race because that's obviously it but any point did you have satisfaction or fulfillment just for a second that you were in the Daytona 500 I think when the satisfaction finally come about is when we run up right with Darrell and everybody running the top five and you could actually see the lead car

you know what I mean like holy Christ how this happened but everything had happened that's not supposed to happen right and had Mario Rossi as a crew chief and I remember it rained and it rained and it rained

and we started the race and the racetrack was wet and I said look I really want to do this but do I want to run 200 mile an hour on a white race track yeah and this thing was 35 degrees tight

by that flat back wind of the Buick so it was ugly in the beginning and it pushed her You get up in, you get in the water and really wrecked, you know? Yeah. And I run about, I don't know, five or six, after I got on the radio, and I said, I, this ain't good. He said, just drive it.

You was, just drive it. It'll get better. He changed everything on the car. Yeah. Everything. I never got to practice. Yeah. But he'd been around a block and knew everybody.

And it got better and it got better and it got better. And I said, you know, we're driving it to the front. I said, wow, this is pretty good. So, I mean, it was a bumpy, bumpy, bumpy week. And then we broke a crash and we took Pearson out and it was raining. All over the grass. It was terrible.

How far into the race did you did that crash happen? Almost about three quarters away through the race. Okay. So you're you're moving right along. Yeah. Were you there at the end? I mean, do you recall being there to, I mean, the Allison's were your buddies. I'm going to do about that.

Oh, yeah. I'm going to tell you what happened. We got up, we got up by an officer afterwards and Richard Schill was up with us and we were talking to him. Bob Bohioli came up, and he was pissed off because they got involved in a wreck and screaming. I mean, I chased him around the car to beat his little butt. I ended up driving for them. Yeah, you did.

But they grew up around me, you know what I mean? The other fight. Yeah. The other fight. The other fight. The other fight. Yeah. The not-so-famous fight.

But did you, when Allison's got into it with Kale, where were you? Had you left the track already? I was there. It was horrible. No, we were the pets. You were? Yeah. Did you see it?

I'd seen it, but I mean, I've seen what happened with Kail and Donnie. and all the people I've ever raised with in my life, including his dad, and his dad would intimidate you. I'm talking about intimidate you now. Yeah. Donnie Alice intimidated me more than anybody. Really? I said that one time, then he said, Gary, why? I said, everything you never watched you race.

You know, I never thought I was intimidating. I said, Bobby could run with me, and I could run with Bobby. I could run with your dad. Pearson Indian. But I always had Donnie I was intimidated. But I grew up around Donnie, right in the back of his pickup truck. I don't know how many fights Donnie was in at the races. So it was just another Donnie fight.

It's all you're looking at. But Donnie, but yeah, Donnie, Donnie was aggressive. Yeah. Bobby was smooth, and Donnie was aggressive. Right. They're still like that, aren't they? You know, Bobby's smooth. What about Richard Petty?

Did you ever, I mean, because he goes and wins that race. What was your recollections of race with Mr. Richard? I made a big mistake of Richard Petty at Michigan. Oh, really? It's a real big mistake. Paxison. But I think it was a little. some difficulty there with Pete Hamilton being my driving coach

and driving for Richard because it just, Richard never really cared for me. Oh. And then I got underneath him and then down to back straightway at Michigan. I followed Buddy Becker by. He didn't always turn to come down and I got him in the door and he almost wrecked. Practice was over.

I didn't want to go back in the pits. Yeah. They said that'll come around and receive and all. Gary, do yourself in favor and stay right here for a while. And finally push the car and everybody laid their tools down and he's going, Richard is? Yeah.

So I go across there, he's running on a tariff. Where do you think you're at? I lose B-way? I said, Richard, I was drafting by you. Well, buddy, I got two towers on a flat to keep running into it. He said, it's practice. I got to win practice, too. You know what I mean?

I feel like if you're fastest score in practice and you sit on a pole and you need every lap and you want to race, let's have a beer. If you don't want to have a beer, we'll fight. I don't care There's other options, by the way It didn't have to be a beer fight But anyway

So the king wasn't happy with you there He wasn't happy with you there You were there to win Yeah When was the first time You met Dale Earnhardt? The first time I'm about your dad I'm going to say

Matrilana Okay Really? Yeah That's the first time I'd say You were there with your sister and had a couple of shit boxes And you guys were struggling

And I really wanted to walk over I'll tell you the story going And I really want to walk over and try to help you all because I was going pretty good there. Yeah. Your dad was there, and I said, he doesn't need my help.

He's got it, you know what I mean? And it took you all the while, but you got it. It's like Davy Allison. I kind of tutored him. Donnie gave up on him. I was standing right there, and he called Bobby. He said, I'm done. I can't deal with this kid.

No, bore. I'm done. Well, the kid's there by himself. Yeah. So I put him under my wing and it helped him a lot and got him going. And I felt like you were the same way, you know, from your dad.

And your dad was busy. if I was there, why could I help you? Make sure we get this microphone in front of you. I want to hear these stories. I got to make sure I hear it. Yeah, all right, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Perfect.

All right, go ahead. Yeah, so, y'all race, one of the races that I first ever saw you drive was the 1981, Charlotte 300 at Lake Mall Sportsman Race in Charlotte, Merritt Speedway. That's the one where Dad called you the dirty driving. Oh, yeah. Amazing race. And a little bit of me had become a fan of you that day. even though you and dad beat and bang to the finish.

I don't know. There was just something. I love the car. It's a beautiful race car. And I thought your style was very similar to dads. You were aggressive. And I like that type of race car driver. And you learned of dad's comments right after that race from Donnie Allison in Victory Lane.

Donnie Allison, come over and reach the car. I went, in my mouth. Yeah. Let go. Let go, you know. He said, whatever you do, keep your mouth shut. He said, that is the crown punch. You just got into it wrecked.

Yeah. That is the crown. I said, no. I know. You know. But it was one of them deals that, Dale was real good about getting on your right rear. And he's real good about getting on that right rear and that arrow.

Yeah. And that void off at windshield and that nose is still there. It hadn't changed. Right. And he was just on the right rear. And I moved up and he got me the right rear on the other side finish line in Charlotte. The other side goes that way to come back. you're going to wreck, you know what I mean?

But I got lucky. I let go and grabbed them, let go and grabbed. Mark Martin said, he's seen all the smoke. He thought somebody would blow it up. Then he looked and he said, Blue's still going straight. Well, then he drove alongside me. I said to myself, we're going to go way off

and three here now because I had to really pedal hard to be alongside of him getting in, you know? He got up and he got into loose stuff. He was in Robert G's car. Yep. Robert comes down and said, but what the hell's wrong with you? I said, well, I said, we just got to

Got racing hard, got racing too hard. Were you guys beating and banging before the last lap, or was this all on the last lap? Yeah, well, I was kind of like the new kid on the block, and him and Jody were both good. Jody Ridley? Jody Ridley? Yeah, yeah. Mark was right there, but Mark was behind us a little bit. I think I had a better hot rod to both of them.

I was going to win. I mean, I got a hot rod here to win. Yeah. And they teamed up on me. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. You know? That was a tough one.

Was that the first time you had raced against? against Dale Earnhardt or had you raised him in Metro learning. Yeah, we'd run a couple of learning. Yeah, we'd know, we'd raise some money. Before that. Okay. I remember. You gotta remember that Elsin was my hero.

I mean, I took his ground all the time. He's one of the best racers in the world, man. I remember, I don't remember what year this was. I was somewhere between four to six years old. Wow. And went to Metro-Lina Motor Speedway, and it was dirt. And I remember Dad was there. He was in Cup at this time.

so this was somewhere in the early 80s. But you were running and just destroyed everybody. Very Wright's car. Really? Yeah, Buddy Griffin owned it. Was that a white car? White car with 12 on it. It was.

So I remember like images of that day. Dad was driving somebody else's car. Might have been, might have been Robert G's car. I'm not sure, but run second to you by about a straightaway back. Everyone else was not even in the same lap. And I remember that was right around that same time. frame as the Charlotte 300. And so I'd seen you run Charlotte, and now you're at the dirt track dominating. That was my first recollection of you and race and dad. So I don't know how many times

y'all. I used to race against each other in a cup series quite a bit. It was written that it was written and said by many people, even as recently as the 90s, that you were the Dale Earnhardt of the short tracks. Is that a, is that a, that's a compliment? That's a compliment. So, So, and you talk about how you appreciate, you know, dad as a driver. Although he flipped him off once. You did flip, yeah. Hold on a second. We got to hear about that.

I don't remember that. Talladega, 1981, Talladega 500. Jody Realty, yeah. Now he remembers. See, he came from the back. Yeah. I didn't make the race for Bucca vial Spring qualifying. We started on a provisional rocket show.

Rocket ship. Come from the back. And at first time the night, if you really come from the back and pass him. But I was going to the front, and he was going to the front, and he's going to like, I'm going to buy you, get in line. He wanted you to get in line with him. Exactly.

Just, where are you going this early? Why didn't you just pass him and just move? I know, but you had to hang a bird out the window at the same time. He wanted me getting in line behind him. No, I'm going to get in line behind you. I'm going to buy you. So you flip them off. That's you.

I've never read a story about anybody flipping off Dillner. I'm sure it happened, but I never knew anybody did. You know what he did right back, don't you? Did he do it? Of course he did. He gave me the same motion. We were at Michigan. We were at Michigan in that race where we run side

beside the finish line. Oh, the Iraq race? Oh, yeah. The whole freaking race, every single lap. He's giving me that line. Oh, yeah, getting in line. Stay in line. Stay in line.

Don't pass me. Stay behind me. Stay behind me. I'm like, I'm in a hornet's nest back here. Yeah. They're all over my quarter panels. And he's out front and I'm protecting him. And I'm like, I'm not liking this.

You'd be better if you were behind me. Exactly. You guys in your Earnhardt stories. Did you ever have any good Earnhardt stories? Every time. I mean, Rates was a good Earnhardt's. No, I know that. I know.

I mean, did you guys ever have any good, get along good? No, we got along great. We got along good, oh, yeah. We always talked and hung out and, you know, yeah. One of the funniest things, Dale and I literally laugh at this when we were talking about it. But when, and I'm jumping ahead, but this is an Earnhardt story. And one of my favorites in the book is when you were coming back into the garage after your first stint, you know, away. And Dale Earnhardt looks at you.

He's like, are you back? And then when you said you were back. He went, look here. I walked out and I said, I said, well, but he put his hand and said, he'd say you're going to come back and race with us? That's a maybe. I hope not.

I'm going to tell you something. That deal with Charlotte probably cost me a golden opportunity to drive for your dad. Really? Oh. I would have loved the driven for your dad. Do you ever remember coming to New Somerun and getting on top of the truck? No. He used to watch her races from up on your hauler.

He called me. He wanted around the pitch and he said, He said, well, come here. And I'd go, what, what's up? You race it? And I said, yeah, we've won a couple of us already. He said, I'm going to come over tonight. And I said, well, come on, come to the gate.

And when you get to the gate, help me call me to come to the golf cart and get you, put you on trucks and nobody knows you're even there. I want to tell you how that deal goes. He'd get on truck, and he watched me race. And that was, to me, like to have him watch me race. Are you kidding me? That's something. Yeah.

That's nice. But he enjoyed watching me, I guess, because I was out of control most of the time. I don't think. I think he felt the same way I felt. He liked your style. It was so similar to his. You were aggressive. Yeah, you were aggressive.

People called you, the Daly and Harler's Short Tracks. A lot of people, you know, compare you to Tim Richmond. I think you're kind of a blend of both. Y'all all sort of had that same sort of. Tim and I were real good friends. Yeah. Tim drove from me and style from Ted was a cool guy. He had one hell of a race driver.

So we want to talk about the drug smuggling era of your life. Now, at this point in your life, obviously, you know, you cover this really well in the book, which I was really interested about it. For me, it's exciting. It's, you know, we see movies get made about this stuff and sensationalized and so forth. For me to know somebody in racing that was so successful, yet had this whole other life that was incredibly dangerous. I don't know. Have you come to terms with, you know, obviously that took a lot away from you. And I understand, I can't even imagine how that affected your life. But now you're here. You're here to podcast. You wrote a book. You're doing a documentary. Are you at a point in your life where you're comfortable, you know, discussing that part of your history? Oh, for sure. And sort of using it as a message.

Oh, yeah. You know. You don't want to get involved in that. Right. So at what part of your life, at what point in your life did you become a guy capable of doing that? And in the book, a couple people come up to you at points in your career and say, man, this is something you'd be good at. And it was kind of maybe tongue in cheek. And then it became more serious conversation. And you said at one point, the money sounds good.

I'm going to go give this a run. All I got to do is count the bails. That's not a big deal. I'm just a counter. So at what point in your... your life did it did you sort of move from a guy that would go count bells to somebody who thought man i'm gonna get a little further into this and make a little bit more money it wasn't further you know here's what happens so you deal as you start out and i want to make a hundred thousand dollars

just get my bills paid off right you know so i raised for a living and it was hard in times yeah a lot of debt a lot of debt and uh you go and you you pitch some bells and catch some bells and accounting. You see everything everybody's got and what they're doing. It takes money to fuel all this. Without money, you're not fueling this. That's nothing. That's where the money comes from to get me to Daytona and 79. Right. I don't believe to this day that it's any worse than moonshine. Sure. And this whole sport was basically built on moonshine. And I can look at myself in the mirror and deal with what I was doing because it was weed. It was marijuana. It wasn't cocaine. It wasn't. heroin, it wasn't on that crap.

And I had an opportunity to do all that because my credibility was so good. When I told you I was going to be there, I was there. When I told you I was going to do it, I did it. My equipment was like my race guards. Right. It finished because if you can't finish, you can't win. And with that, when you don't finish and you throw it over, it floats with you. You're not getting rid of it, you know what I mean?

So you got to finish, and I did my smuggling just like I race. You talked about starting at your first, the first, time you ever got involved in any of that they the guy asked you to go on the boat as a counter just to count the bells and then you created your own operation how big was that operation at its peak it got pretty had i mean that train running down the track it just going to go on and going and everything gets bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger bigger you're there you know were you always on the were you always running a boat or did it become so big no i got to where it was other people driving but i was there i was there for every one of them so

The operation never went to the race track without being there. Yeah. But explain to the fans listening to this podcast. When you're talking about running a boat, what exactly are you talking about here? Basically what you do is you get the equipment and you had a connection. And the connection was good. I drove it's hot rod. We all know where that was about.

And when it's time to go, you go. They tell you to go. And you've got to go a certain place. You've got a little fiery rock. You've got to go to Bimini, or you've got to go to North Light or you've got a point. You've got to go, but you can't remember that's a stick sticking up out there. We didn't have GPS then. We had a compass in a watch.

He'd still a line out in water if you broke down and see where the current wasn't, just how much you were drifting, how much you had changed course. And it was pretty hard to go out there in the middle of the night. It's dark out there. There's no lights. I mean, dark if it's a cloudy night. There's no stars. there's no moon.

I mean, you can't see your hand right there. So it was a challenge. It really was a challenge. I went, like, when I first got the boat, 24-foot C-ray, I went 13 times, and it was lost my house and have my race cars all put up and couldn't afford to buy tires for them. And I just wouldn't quit.

I persevered. Bobby Allison taught me that a long time ago. Yeah. There still quit. So you went the first several trips and didn't even get a bail? Nothing. I mean, I don't understand that. How come?

Because they didn't show up. They didn't make it. Oh. They broke down or they got busted. So you're losing money. You're doing this to get money and you're losing money. Oh, kill me. I got you.

You know, there's something about this. I mean, like you had some lines in there in the book that were, like you used a lyric from a song, Smuggler's Blues and it's, but the, because it's, you know, basically saying that smuggling is easy and it's easy money. And then you say, you call BS that. You're like, nothing's easy. So my question to you is the risk and the reward. At some point it seemed like you mentioned enough thing. You talk about 20-foot seas, and you're talking about your, you know, 13, going 0 for 13 and get before making money.

When did it, did it not seem like this isn't worth it? You know, maybe this isn't worth it. I have, my theory is you were trying to get to cup and you were trying to pay your ride to cup. And so that is, that's the why question. Why I did it. Exactly. But at some point did it seem like, well, this isn't going to get me to cup. Yeah, you busted, you know.

can't get there. You know, and I never got busted. I got toll on, you know, and it was a dry conspiracy. It didn't happen. We were there, and it didn't happen. I come home, put everything away, and went to Syracuse, and won Syracuse. You know, but, like, when we finally got successful,

when you drive through that cut and you get that stuff unloaded and you get it in a house and you get it back to people and own it, it's like went in Daytona, winning in Apple's 500. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the adrenaline rush is absolutely incredible. See, I never got that from reading the book. I mean, I did understand that you got an adrenaline rush from it

and that you found some thrill in it. But I never took, that's the first time I'm hearing that, you know, once you were done with a job, it was like, all right, win a race. Hell yeah. Take one in a race. Right. Like afterwards, having to bear with everybody, you know. That's fascinating.

But it's hard. There's no end to it. Like, you know, once you get it. at home you've got to get it offloaded you got to get it in the house you got to scale it you got to go through it's you got to get your percentage out you're going to get the rest of the people own it now you got to get it out the front door the front door is different than the back door the back door is a boat the front door it's the street so you got to come up with the deal on the front camping trailer that's there you know what the floor's all done in it and everything out of it

and put a door in the house so you get to the trailer and they got to take the trail in and out every weekend that they're camping with the neighbors out there to think that that's what's going on Oh, that was fascinating, actually. A sprinkler system company, digging in or putting plants in or a roofing company. I mean, it had to be something to get it out. He got just as creative. All the creativity he was putting in race cars. He was putting them also in those trucks.

It seems exhausting. It does. The charade. Right. Seems exhausting to try to cover up the actual operation. How about the back one of the boats tied up? The docks and neighbors. You take them fishing.

You take them to have a drink. They bring it back. They come in there standing on top of it. We're cooking fish and cleaning a fish, you know what I mean? Like, that had to make you nervous. Oh, a little bit. How about when, you know, over to Bahamas and the cops are standing on top of it. You know?

On top of your boat? Yeah. On top of the drug. They come down. They come down every night. They'd have a barrel with us in talking, stand right on top of it. And it's on top of it. You know, like, haven't you all got some points to go?

One of the craziest stories from the smuggling days for me in the book is a close call you had where the boat filled up with gasoline. And tell that story, and I want to ask after you're done, is that the one real scare? The pinnacle of the scare. That was a pretty good scare. I've had some other ones. But that one there, we had moved two times, three times trying to get the line with the freighter to get what we had to get. and we got moving around by North Light and we got loaded.

And that was a small load. It was probably 2,000 pounds or something. It was a 30-foot boat. And I saw a gas. What the heck is that? We put a bigger tank in it and covered it and carpet and rod holders and stuff. Look right.

The kid at work for me, did the lines and stuff. Evidently tie wrap broke or he didn't tie it off enough and the line got it in. I flipped the back up in my local. And the gas is all the way up to the alternators. If we ever tried to start it, it would have blown up, kill us all.

And I had a rider with me, a good friend of mine. And you're still at a dock? No. You're out the water? You're out in the middle ocean. Yeah, about 70 to 80 miles out. Okay. Oh, Christ.

So we start bailing the gas out. Well, the gas's just going to float with you. We'll build the gas out the best we can. I get on a hand haul, and I call, I have to look how we've got a problem. Big fun. We need to get this shit off this boat and get to somebody else. I don't know what we're going to do here with this thing. But just keep going to go gather some soap for you, a boat's cleaner.

You know, Don works real good with that. So they go gather all they can gather all the village cleaner and don everything everybody's got because there's probably 20-30 boats out there to do it. And he brings that to me, well, when he bought that, tell me, I put the rider off on a boat with him. You had a buddy on the boat. Yeah, you had a buddy on the boat. Yeah, I know since the both of us blowing up here.

Right. You'd have seen that exposure from Miami, you know? So I put him off in the boat and put him up and put water in it and put water in it and bailing and I dump all this soap and boat's canter in it and I put some water in and I'll wash it out and I fill it back up again and go, it's got to be easier way. And I think of it and I said, I'm going to turn the switches back on. They're not supposed to, you know, it was waterproof.

They shouldn't ignite. and the ditched the billage pumps So I took the billage pumps on and pumped it out And fill it up and pumped it out Well now with that that tank leaking The fuel line We don't have the fuel we had That's why that tank was in there

Right So I borrowed about 10 gallons And that's all I could get Because everybody else already topped off They bring the fuel with jerry dogs I said wow this is going to be close So I start back When I get all the way back

And I get about five miles out And it shuts off Oh, no. I think about it. I said, well, I've got to take the floor up in this thing. I take the floor up. The tank was under it, and I'd take the tank apart. And the pickup goes down, and it's about that far down.

And there's probably that much an inch of gas. There's gas lading there. So you had to fashion some more to the pickup. Yeah, a little, yeah, a little MacGyver here. So I took the fill line apart off the ray cord, got me a piece, the clamp. Put it on the bottom, put it all back together, put the floor back in. It's the council back over, bowled it back. down. Here we go. I drive her on in while I get to where I'm supposed to be at the

marine and the cat that's running the travel lift is supposed to lift me out. I'm not there. They're going to use a forklet. Yeah, I remember now there's no fuel the bag of the thing and all that's in the front. He lifts it out and it's feeling like this. Oh, I got oh, I grabbed the back and I'm hanging on the back. He said, get away with that man, you crazy? I said, no yeah a little bit. If it dumps over, I'm done anyway. Right. You know, like, you get away from that thing, man. I got away from it.

I'm watching. Watch it, watch it, watch it. I watch it. I finally sets out on the trailer. I could never, ever wait to get that thing out of the Marine and get it back. Yeah. I'd say so. Was that?

So you said there were some crazier stories and some closer calls. Do you remember in those? Here's a real good one. They call me up. I'm at home. I'm in bed. And they got a 58-foot crosscraft, and it's got probably 15,000 pounds on it. Fifteen,000.

pounds of drugs. And they call me marijuana. And they call me, oh, this thing's going down. I said, what do you want me to do? Well, we need some out. What needs to have out? Well, I'm putting a swimming pole at my house. And there's a four mudsucker there. I said, all right, on my way. I call a couple of my guys. And I had my wife put the mudsucker to the back of Boduli, and up wide open all the way to stop, you know, Miami and other than Fort Lauderdale. And to get there, and this thing won't start. We're pulling it. We're pulling. And this thing's rolling over on it.

and sliding out. Water's running out of portholes. All of a sudden, I hear of sirens and all this, and here they come down the waterway, chasing this boat. Oh, shit. You thought they're coming to y'all. This thing's going in. Oh, yeah. I mean, all this stuff floating along the boat and up around

the boat. Oh, it is? Just soap and my bellylater and everything, you know what I mean? They can pass up, and I'm looking at it. I'm just stopped and stood still. They went down in the the waterway and turned on and checked them back the other way. I said, where did I just go? They were forming a movie. Oh, my goodness.

Holy shit. Wow. Oh, my God. Finally, we got the mudsucker going. We got it pumped out, and then we saved it. Oh, my God. At the closest. Do you have any idea how upset they would be if you sank behind the house with 15,000 pounds of weed?

How upset. Yeah. How upset? What do you think? Way upset. Like life or death upset? Way upset. Yeah.

I had a partner that thought he could move everything and do that. this and do all that and we kept keeping a bunch of their stuff one time and they had him they got him about heading for ransom damn i said oh god how'd we get into this you know yeah but that's when you get out too far and you believe in people that do that and don't know what you're talking about yeah did you fear for your life or or you fear for you're getting caught i feared for getting caught but you never feared for your life no because this to me if you do the right thing you don't steal there's plenty of money there for everybody why would you want to you want to steal from them.

There's no sense in that. Right. And you do the right thing. You tell me you're going to be there and you're there. Like I told them, I said, why ever get this big trip? I'm going to buy all Rolexes, presidentials. That's nothing to them. You know what I mean?

That's like a piece of popcorn. Yeah. But for me to do what I said I was going to do, I bought, I don't know, 10 Rolexes. I couldn't believe it. Like, you really did that. I said, yeah, I told you I was going to do it. So I was a candidate for all the time with him wanting me to do bigger. of better things and I don't do.

It seems like you knew you knew at some point that the whole thing was going to unravel. They followed us for four years. Right. And so I mean, and during that time are you thinking I want to get out of this? I'm too far in. I can't get out. Like what was

going through your mind? I was pretty close, I think, with a cop deal. But it's 28 car. Yeah. And plus I was there with Raymond Beatle, with Reggie and Raymond all night, and Milwaukee and all that, and I had to bail.

And they didn't understand, you know. Raymond didn't understand, Kerry, you can't. You can't. I said, I got it, too. It's going to ruin it all for all of us. I put Tim Ritzman in the car. Then I put Rutz and when Tim went with Hendrick, I put Rust in the car.

But in the smuggling game, you knew it was going to come to an end. You knew the cops were watching. and why didn't you try to get out sooner? If you knew they were watching for four years. Conspiracy is conspiracy. If it's five years, six years, four years, conspiracy. And that's what gets you.

We were pretty good at what we did as far as getting in and doing everything right and people in house and all that. But you can't control that. Yeah. And that's what gets you. But I don't understand. So he felt like what you're telling me is when you learned that the cops were on your trail, You knew you were getting the time, whether you stopped now or kept digging.

When they come in the rest, me, everyone loved in the 500, cut a tire, down, and they're all that. And they come at 5 o'clock in the morning, and the first thing they said to me was, you got a better career in future. And anybody were arrested, and we're arresting 70 people to swore, no matter. Oh, wow. A lot of people going down. But they've been four years.

Yeah. When they come for you, buddy, they got it. Don't you think. When you see, it's in the book here, when you see the United States, government versus Gary Blue? That's your first clue. It gets your attention. How are you going to beat the United States government?

Yeah, man. I thought I could. You know, you'd make a little money. I'm like a good attorney. Right. And I could have won it. I should have almost won it. But they wouldn't sever me from the other nine defendants.

And they were, you know, on tape and just bail list and names everywhere. And I mean, oh, my God, guilty of sin. Yeah. But that's the way goes. You're in, you're in. Gary, I mean, my question, the thing that Dale and I would ask each other is before we started reading the book, we were like, why would someone with this much talent and this much opportunity or, you know, promise with a, to get where he wants to go, get caught up with it? And then as you read the book, you realize this was what you called the shortcut plan or the, or this was a way to get your dream. And that answers the question why.

Like, and that answers the question why. But when it didn't happen, well, hold on. Before I ask that, how much, can you somehow qualify us or quantify how much of this might have actually funded your racing? And we talk about the number of wins. But like, I think you must have been in this more before that I even realized. So like, how much of this do you think funded your career percentage wise? 50% of it?

By the career, none. None. That wasn't involved in none. Yeah, at the end of when we finally got to the coppriced with Harvey and said, so forth. That's what helped us. It didn't like, when we went to Syracuse and the United, we were about with the money there, to do it right. I mean, so it didn't.

It takes boo-cooled money to make all this happen. So it didn't ever contribute to your cup stuff? Yeah, it did. It did. That's how I finally got. So it did. So in a way, you could say that that was a successful, whatever the path you chose, it helped you achieve it to a degree.

Is that fair to say? Here's what I was to say. I got the 75 car and got the racing and got the bead there. And then Raymond Beatles seen me. We got to become friends, and I'm drag races with him, and he wanted to get involved. And we got Reggie Jackson involved with me. We're pretty well on our way.

We had Barry Dawson had some good people put together. Barry Dawson, yeah. Yeah, good people. When I won a championship with Rusty in old Milwaukee and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, I knew that I was fixing to be indicted. But I've been my attorney's, and he said you're 300%. I said, 300% of a thousand. He said, no, 300, I'm 100.

That's right. Boy, they were bad odds. To clarify, I remember right, you're talking about the chances you had to beat this, right? And he said you had 300% of being indicted, right, right, right. And he said, no, you're 300%. In other words, you have no chance of getting out of this. You're going to be arrested. You're going to be a right.

There was also a chance, though, but you had to do something that you didn't want to do. No, and I wouldn't do it. I haven't done it and I'm going to do it and not going to do it. Yeah, so you were real careful, and you talk about that in the book, being careful about certain details of the crimes and the individuals involved. Is that why you feel like there's no fear of any danger for you, even today? Like you don't walk around looking over your shoulder at all. Not at all.

Really? And never did. Nope. Wow. Companies love me, the Bahamians love me. Yeah. I didn't talk about nobody. Right.

And if people I'll work for and work with, I said nothing. They're like, now all the years I've raised, I've never protested. buddy and race it. Never. And I won't walk up or to scale and watch you go through and tell the officials and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'll walk around and look at it and I'll see what you got and I'll come next week with that and something better. During your, during the years of your appeals, you continue to race and win. And I'm going to rattle off some of those victories here in a bit, but you had to know

that jail was certain in your future as you just said, 300% your lawyer's telling you out of 100%. How did you block that out? The hardest thing was to get that close with a cup deal, real good deal. Oh, yeah. And have that in the back of your mind. The thing that I wanted to do from the time I was 19 years old. But you went and ran all-pro and you won the biggest races that could be. I won the race.

I won't the race. I know. But I race all-pro. I race that late ball car, like what I learned from a cup deal. I know, but mentally, how did you block that out, knowing that you were going to go to jail for years? I mean, how did you, I would, how a normal person or me would have said, you know, I'm not, what's there to race for? Like, I've got nothing to look forward to, but you kept going about your business. One of a national championship.

One of a championship. I just don't understand. A billion dollar sponsor for 14 races. I don't know how you were able to do that. Yeah. Like you went, so you. Because I thought I was going to win the pill. I never, I never, I never.

I never give up. In your mind, you never gave up. Never knew. You went to the 1986 Snowball Derby and won. Saturday night in January, in 1987, you celebrated the 1986 All-Pro Championship. That following Monday, you walked into prison. Checked in. Like, I can't even imagine.

The hardest thing they've ever do in my life. Drivers these days, a sinus cold will take over their mind while they're racing. And to be honest with you, and probably cause them to not perform as well. I mean, and that's just, I'm not knocking drivers these days. I'm just saying it's hard for a. normal person to compartmentalize even the minor things that are going wrong because you're such a creature of habit and routine so so you've got your life on the line in your head and that's a fair question that he's asking how do you race and win while that's going on how can anybody do

do anything and do it so perfectly yeah but with that why did you race you race to win yeah the The only time you ever sat down a hot ride, you wanted to win. I think it speaks to your talent. It's all about winning. I think it speaks to your pure talent as a driver and your ability to take a car and make it better than everybody else's. That to me probably is the most fascinating part of your career. I mean, I'm curious about the smuggling side of it, but the fact that you did what you did during the appeal process to me is... It's amazing.

We had 1142 motions. those are from case law What does that mean? What does that mean? When you're in trial and they use something against you and somebody else has won on it that's case law

Yeah That's a appellate issue The judge let something go through That somebody else had won on And you have to have real good attorneys That stand up and appellate Yeah 1142 moats took them four years

And didn't win on one How did I know about people all went on that? Yeah So you keep thinking Well there's a shot There's a shot. So many things wrong during trial. Right.

Oh, my God. But listen to me, they paid a judge. Oh. The agents get paid every Friday. They don't care how long it takes. Right. How are you going to beat that? They got all the money in the world.

You're not beating that. But you thought you were. Well, yeah. I read a lot of the court records on that I could find. Fascinating how you guys all went back. and forth with the legal system arguing surveillance and all kinds of things. And that to me kind of spelled out how that process would be so drawn out. Another fascinating thing that Mike and I both found interesting is during your time in jail,

during your first prison term, you were sent to the Federal Correctional Institute in all places Talladega, Alabama. The cars were running. You were there that weekend. I was locked in a hole. You were in solitary. Solitary. While the race was going on.

I could hear him. You could hear. That killed me. I could think of the... You had just... Had been a racist and knew who I was. Right. They didn't...

They didn't... No. But they do. I knew they knew by things I heard them say, you know? That's got to be some kind of torture. I mean, if I think about torture, that... For you, to read the first half of this book and know where you are, who your heart is, to hear the cars in a race that you had been in previously,

and you're, who knew Taladega even had a federal correction facility? I thought the Talladega infield jail the holding cell was the only jail they had. You don't want to be, that's a penitentiary. That's, that's, that's, you don't want to go there.

You don't want to go to Atlanta. You don't want to go to Louisiana. I don't want to go to all of them. You don't want to go to none of them. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to go to the idea. Those are the real deal. Yeah. But take us, take us inside that cell that day

because what intrigues me, Gary, is the beginning of your book, something that really resonated with me is how you're a child and you're on top of your roof listening to race cars. And you get this passion. You develop this passion. You want to be inside. You want to be there.

So you get there. And seven years after you raced at that Talladega race, you're on a floor of a cell here in those race cars wanting to be inside there. Again, can you walk me through what was going through your mind that day? It's a mind set. I mean, it's just, you have to put it aside to survive because you've got to survive.

You can't just lay down and die because you have that fire in you. No quit. You're done. You know, they're dragging it out, dragging you around. And then he dragged me to Lewisburg Penitentiary. And I remember getting there, and I looked at it in the guard tires and the walls. I said, what have I really done to deserve this? We all sit here every week on the show and talk about racing because we all understand racing from

different levels. But I don't understand things like what it's like to serve time. And I want to hear from you, since you're a racer and I can identify with you. I really want to know your words what it's like to serve time because I don't understand that. Well, it is so hard to have somebody tell you when to get up, when to go to bed, one to eat, and lock you down and you can't watch this and you can't do that. It's incredible that way. But my first deal was you have all your family. You can't keep in your mind and survive prison and time and try to keep your life going with your family.

It's so hard. It's so hard. I mean, it just, it's like it takes all that away from me. It takes them put you over here someplace, away from everybody and everything. We talked about the first time you got involved in smuggling was to help sort of speed up the process of getting you into the Cup Series

and affording that. because it is a big undertaking financially. What was the reason for the second time? So when I read about that, it made me think, wow, I mean, you knew the feds were watching you for four years in the 80s in the early 80s the first time. How could you even think about going back in there? Were they not still watching you? Do they not like keep an eye on you even when you're out and you're done and you served your time?

They do, but they don't. I mean, they do, you know, with your probation and all that. I mean, I, when it's all started, I did four years on a pill, then I did four years, then I did five years on paper, which I was up here doing that. Then the second time, I got a seven-year sentence, and I did 68 months in, and five years on paper afterwards. So at all that up, it's about 13, 14 years.

I don't know. But why did you go in the second time? The second time, because my needs were bleeding. I couldn't get a sponsorship. I couldn't make no money. You were at the bottom? At the bottom. At the very, very bottom.

And I went to bed and fishing. And you got to remember all them kids over there now have grown up. I made Christmas for all them kids. I load my hat or something, $30,000 with toys that take over there and we have Christmas. You know, they needed bikes, and they need this, they need that. Whatever they needed to figure out how to get it. Now they're grown up.

They remember that Gary kept a spouse shut, grandpa, they call me. He's our hero. You need to do this. You need to do, no, no, no, I don't need to do another. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got this. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you do one trip.

One trip's all the takes. You're back in. Yeah, you're in. Cowley. Another interesting story from 1989, you watched the Winston, where Rusty turned there on the front straightaway for the wind with other inmates. Well, I own part of that deal. I was still in with Raymond Beetle.

Really? And Reggie, yeah. While you're in jail. I put Rusty in that car. Right. But once Tim left it, Raymond said, what, what are we going to do now? I said, we're going to put Rusty Wallace.

He said, Rusty who? I said, Rusty Wallace. And he said, he's never done nothing. I said, he's the next candidate. I'm telling you, he's a racer. He said, we got to hire. You've been racing against Rusty, and you do him well. Oh, yeah, ASA at all.

We're a good friend. So you talk about how Rusty winning the championship in 1989 really affected you because you had had the opportunity or that was sort of your destiny. to actually be in that car had things going your way. But it was still good for me to see Raymond, do good and Rusty, do good. I have some team player. Yeah. But it hurts, you know, that's what you work for all your life,

and that's why you did what you did to get there. Yeah. Here we are. I never knew that. So when you, I never knew your affiliation with the 27 car. I never even knew you ever had an opportunity or we're working on a deal for the 28 car. or near car at that time. So it's interesting for me to see like a visual graph of what your career, what your direction

was. Like you had a plan. Like when you were at the racetrack in 1979 in Daytona, you might not know exactly what that plan was. But after, by 1981. But to get good enough to get in the top right. By 1981, you're in a 75 car with rehealing those guys. And that, you were working on a plan.

You had a plan. So imagining you now in that 27 car. car and having that potential to be with that team really even makes it more intriguing. I didn't know that because I didn't know that you had that much of a foundation created in the Cups series in 81 when you left. So that's interesting. Here's how I feel about that 28 car. Yeah.

If your dad had ever been in that 28 car, the rest of them have been raised for second, every race they went to. It was a rocket ship. Woo! Yeah. It was. Yes, sir. It was a rocket ship

And I think that was the best thing It could have ever happened To Davey I mean he It was a lot more race car Than there was driver There that first year But boy

You can't drive You can't learn to drive Until you can get in a car That can do what it needs to do A good hot ride A good hot ride That's right So that probably

It was the best thing Could have happened Old Davy We talked about How well you could have Fared as a driver In today's racing You're still involved

In motorsports You're still You're working with You work, do you still work with Stewart? Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. How many different teams are you working with right now? Can you even count them?

Yeah, I'm working with a guy, Jim Weber, with some, Senator stuff. Yeah. And that's a pretty good deal, probably being Jimmy Carter in and maybe Stuart in a few races. And that's asphalt? Yeah, all that's fault. Yeah.

Your own asphalt strictly now? Yeah. No, I go to dirt. I go to the Big Block Dirt. I go to Middletown. My boss owns all that. Okay. And we go up there.

I mean, New York, it's like, incredible with a So you're all over them. You're still... New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania Warrior rates. I only raced up for five seasons. It's incredible. The fans up are just unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Sounds like you're still running... When I first went back up there, I walked across the racetrack, and I don't know anybody. And I got to the bottom of the racetrack, and it was 15 people who won a autograph and said, you've got to be kidding me. How do these people even remember me? Yeah.

They don't make sense. A legend. Everybody remembers you, man. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just crazy to be gone that long walking someplace. You've never been gone. Everybody still remembers who you were.

Where do you live? I live in Ohio. I live in Cleveland, but I went there and put some race teams together. It made event cards for Brian Short and Jimmy Carter. And then I went to Tom Ferris with Scott Baker and put three teams together there. Then I put another team together over in Pennsylvania with a Seneca car. Then I got to Delaware in Illinois, and I got all that stuff going on in New York State. Yeah.

But I'm excited about the movie. I want to do the movie. So you're making a documentary. Tell us. The documentary is real close to being done. Really? We worked in it all last summer. I'd seen the rough cut of it.

It's incredible how they move stuff around. Is it similar to the book? It's from the book. Okay. Yeah. So, all right. And so a lot of the names that we read about in here, are they in the documentary? Oh, yeah.

It's like, that documentary is. We're sitting right here and talking about whatever it is. I'm going to tell it. Right on. Well, I want to wrap it. lost some victories, man. 1968, Florida's Governor's Cup, 200 winner, 1976 Syracuse 200

winner, 77 Syracuse 200 winner, 78 Syracuse 200 winner, 81 Miller High Life 300 winner, 1980s snowball derby winner, 1980 Syracuse 200 winner, 84 All-American 400 winner, 84 World Crown 300 winner, 86 All-American 400 winner, 86 All-Pro champion, 86 Snowball Derby winner, winner over 1,000 races feature events in his career.

Blue. I've always wanted to talk to you. To me, you're one of the most fascinating stories in motorsports and I appreciate you writing this book because I had, they were a ton of holes to feel for me. And I know there's a lot of other people out there and as curious about you as I am, they need to read this book, Hot Shoe, a checker pass, my story by Gary Ballou and Bons, Bouchier. How do you pronounce? Bouchard. Boucher. Boucher. Boucher. I've always said, I'm North East guy. That's why everybody calls him Bones. Bones.

He's one to the bath. He bats. He's a real racing. I waited a year and a half for that. You got with 181 and trying to find a sponsor. Somebody to help me with it. And Chris stepped up. Yeah.

And I got with a little boy. They were doing a contract, back and forth, back and forth. They sent me all the stuff, but they can still contract in the envelope. So I just said, well, they haven't got it yet. And I waited, I waited, I waited. I called him. I said, where's the contract? He said, you got it.

You got it. You got it. I said, I don't have it. Oh, yeah, you do. I said, don't have it. Well, meanwhile, Bowden's had to do something. He took a job in California. Oh, I had to wait a year and a half to get him to do it.

But I wasn't doing that book without Bone of the Shard. So my boss kept sending me, Gary. There's other authors. Just other people can do that book. No, there's not. When we finally did that book and he was reading it as I was proofreading it, my boss does all the contract. He said, I don't like to read, Gary.

I said, okay. I'll send some chapters to me. He said, he called me up. He said, holy Christ, what have you done to me? I said, what? You know, like, oh, man, what have we done? Yeah. He said, that's the best book I've ever read about life.

I can't wait to get home to read another part of it. Yeah. So that was good, you know what I mean? It's such an education on racing. And that sounds so cliche, but I'm not a racer. I work for a racer. Yeah, a good one. And I learn about race cars and the ingenuity that can be applied to it.

It was unbelievable how much it educates. people and you don't have to be a racing fanatic. It's just, it's impressive. It's an impressive piece of work. He texted me, Chris, and said, you read the book, and I was elated. I said, ah, that's not Junior, really. And then he said, the whole thing,

that he patted some of his career out to my style and went, oh, my God. If Biggie could hear that, you know, right? And then he went on and started telling me about the ingenuity and what the cards and how sanitary of the cards were to clean they were. And that meant a lot to me to hear

that from him you know well i appreciate because he has got there and he has made it and he has done it he's been okay for himself yeah i was i'm glad i got to learn all about you um there's so many layers to you uh and couldn't that yeah well they all tell a story and they all have there's lessons in there and i do tell i tell my driver i told josh barry my late model guy that's out there he's won 50 late model races and and and still racing today i said you need to read this book because you will be a better race car driver when you're done. Like, because I'll go over to the shop, and Josh ain't going to be too happy about me telling you this.

But I go over the shop, and I look at his car, and I go, I know that you're not getting everything you can out of the body of this car. And he doesn't, he doesn't think, he's not in his arrow at all. He doesn't think that. Half-all don't matter. He doesn't think that it's important enough. And I want him to read this book. Just need more.

Smaller Red Shaggy need more. I know. I want him to read this book because I feel like that, and I don't want everybody to read. it because they'll make any of the guys that's racing against at least because I do think

that if you read this book it's sort of a manual on creativity and an approach that all short track racers should have. So I know I'm curious about the wild crazy outlaw part of your life

but there is an amazing amount of information for racers in here. You got the documentary coming out. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait. I've seen some of it. I'm amazed.

I'm amazed. My boss is three times you told me over the weekend, oh my God, I'm a God. To get that was good out of him? Yeah. It's really hard. Yes, sir. Well, thanks for coming.

Thanks for coming all this way, man. I appreciate it. I really appreciate being here on the show with you and didn't have spent some time with you. Yes, sir. I want to go fishing. Let's go fishing. I want to do the Kiwats with you.

Yes, sir. Yeah. All right, let's do it. We'll get down there and just have some fun, man. Sounds good. Get on the boat. You're not going to go to the Bahamah. are you?

You're not going to go to a baby. We're going to check now. Here's what's going to save us. The key from South Florida, go off to the west and off into the Gulf. Bahamas are over here now. We're down around a marathon. Maybe not a marathon is a little too far down. We've done some stuff in a marathon, but Key Largo is about what we need to be straight across.

Okay, we've got GPS now, so now we don't need a couple. All right, that's good. I mean, there's a lot of stories we didn't get to tell today. I'd love to hang out with you and get to hear some more cool stories. I want to hear you sing some more. Yeah, all right, we'll get enough beer in me. We'll do some karaoke. Yes, sir.

All right, man, we'll see you. All right, man, thank you. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.