The Dale Jr. Download - DJD Classics - Greg Biffle: Why I Should've Left Roush Racing

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

On this week’s DJD classics episode, Dale Earnhardt Jr. and co-host Mike Davis catch up with one of his longtime competitors from the NASCAR Cup scene, Washington’s Greg Biffle. After a successful career in NASCAR that spanned nearly two decades, Biffle quietly exited the sport following the 2016 season.Greg shares his story of how he got into NASCAR, where he ultimately headed south to Tucson, Arizona to participate in the NASCAR Winter Heat Series. It was there that he met and befriended NASCAR Hall of Famer Benny Parsons, who was impressed with the unknown racer’s performance. As the story goes, weeks later Parsons was conversing with Jack Roush in the garage area at Michigan International Speedway about Roush’s NASCAR Truck team. Parsons recommended Biffle to Roush, and soon after he received a call from Geoff Smith, the president of Roush Racing at the time. After a lengthy chat, a contract was faxed over to Greg and the next two decades of his racing career were in motion.Greg and Dale speak about the decline of Roush Racing and the factors that led to the team falling behind the competition. Greg explains the team failed to progress with the direction of the sport and it took them a long time to catch up once they were behind. The lack of winning equipment ultimately played a role in Greg leaving Cup racing in 2016, a year earlier than his contract stated.The interview also touches on some of Greg’s rivalries over the years, and the stories behind them. Greg details his dust-up with Jay Sauter at Richmond and the monetary fine and points penalty that fell on him because of it. As a result, when he and Kevin Harvick made contact at Bristol a year later in 2002, he knew he wanted to avoid a fight at all costs. They also discuss his famous feud with Boris Said at Watkins Glen in 2011, and how a perfectly thrown water bottle caused a huge blow-out. Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Door Bumper Clear merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.FanDuel Disclaimer: Must be 21+ and present in select states. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Feeling a little bit under the weather this week. We had Lake Speed book to be our guest. Don't want to get him in here, potentially get him sick. So we're going to reschedule Lake Speed. I'm looking forward to talking to him about his career. But in the meantime, Greg Biffle, he stopped by here last week with Cletus. And it was fun to see him again.

It reminded us of a great conversation that we had a few years back. So I appreciate Biffle opening up about retirement, leaving Rouse Racing. Here's Greg Biffle on DJD Classics. There he is. All right. You ran out of gas? I ran out of gas. It was the last time you drove the boss hog limo?

Oh, God. It's probably been... It's probably been... Too long, I guess. Too long. And you got in, pulled out, and didn't look at the... Yeah, I've done that. So...

Does anybody put gas in your car? You do it. No, I do it. You do it. So full disclosure, all my cars, I don't keep a lot of gas in them. because you don't drive them a lot. Yeah, it goes bad. I put gas in it every time I drive it.

Or not every time, but every other time. And I'm coming up perth road, I look at the gas gauge, a little under a quarter tank. And I'm like, perfect. I'll get a little gas on the way back. I'm coming down Cornelius, and she's, mm, mm, mm. So I gave her the NASCAR shake. You're trying to get a little sloshed around in there? It picked up, and I'm like, oh, I'm going to make it.

I'm going to, I just trying to get the top of the race park, you know, so I can... Toast. So I can get a little gas in her. So what did you do? You ran out. Then what happens? So right as I started running out, I grabbed my phone and, hey, Siri, call Roger.

And my guy at the shop, Roger's answer the phone. I said, bring me five gallons of gas. I'm going to be at the top of the race park. And he knew I was coming over here. Yeah. Good deal. Anyway, mobilized quick. We were back on the road.

Yeah. He scrambled Roger. That's when you know what's up. That's right. And he wins the cool move of the race award because he got you. Thank you, Roger. That's right. Right on time. So where were you born? I was born, actually born in Portland, Oregon.

Portland, Oregon. Yep. And when did you move away from Portland? So I moved away. How old were you? So these are quizzes, aren't they? I actually got my stats. But just give me a rough estimate. So when I moved away is when I first started in the truck series.

So 1997, 98. was my first year of the trucks. So you were quite, you know, you were in your early mid-20s. Mid-20s. Right. What was life like in Portland? So I grew up in Vancouver, Washington, you know, right across the river from Portland. And it, you know, it's not the hotbed of racing.

Right. You know, so I grew up, my parents owned small steel construction company. I worked for a guy that my dad was buddies with that owned automotive machine shop. So he built engines. And so when I was young, you know, in high school, working for him after school, tearing engines down doing all those things. He had oval track cars. And that's actually how the connection came.

I ended up, you know, over the racetrack on Friday night. They raised the Portland Speedway. And my dad's like, hey, do you want to go to the track on Friday night? And I think it was more to try and get me to go do something constructive instead of getting trouble out street racing or speeding tickets. Were you troublemaker? Doing all that. In the car, I was, right?

So we were, you know, I love driving. So I'm out messing around all the time with my buddies. Doing what? What was the trouble? You know, we were street racing and, you know, doing, you know, just doing kids stuff. Do you get arrested? I probably got arrested maybe once. Really? Doing what?

Yeah. Speeding or racing? I don't remember. I was probably. How do you not remember what you got arrested for? I mean, probably got arrested once means I definitely. You definitely got arrested three times or more. I like that.

I like that. No, I think I got arrested for driving without a license. Why did you not have your license? I got too many speeding tickets. So you lost your license from speeding. Yep, for 30 days. And then they arrested you. In a small town, right?

Like Moresville I grew up in. Of course, they see my car sneak by and they're like, he doesn't have a license. They knew you. Yeah, they knew me. Yeah. When did you decide that you wanted to drive a car? You know, I, so anything that burnt gas and had a steering wheel. So I got my first motorcycle when I was five.

And I loved riding motorcycles. And then, you know, I'm at my dad's shop. I'm driving the forklift. And then he'd be like, pull that truck over here. And I get to drive the truck. And then we're at home. We had eight acres. And my grandmother lived at the end of our property.

And so he'd be, go get your grandmother's car. We got to jumpstart the tractor. So, you know, I'm like running up there. So I go in, get my grandma's keys and driver car down there. I just love driving. You know, anything that burnt gas had wheels on it, man, I was all over it. So I just enjoyed that. But how did you get behind the wheel of a race car?

So after I got in all that trouble probably out screwing off, you know, on the street, my dad's like, let's go to the, you know, Portland Speedway on Friday night and watch. And we went and watched like the hobby stocks, street stocks. and I'm like, oh my God, I was hooked, loved it, you know, because of the competition, you know, I played sports and wrestled and those things. And I loved competition. I loved cars. And it was something I wanted to do.

And we went home that next week, that next week I bought a car and started stripping it apart. What kind of car? I bought a 74 Ford Torino. From where? Oh, man. Seventy-four Ford Torino. Because my dad was a Ford guy. Okay.

So we tore this car. car apart built a street stock car you know everybody's like oh you want a full frame car and we wanted a ford so it was like the natural monte carlo type of yeah what year was this or roughly uh so that would have been probably 80 okay probably 86 87 so you put a you know you all put a roll cage four point cage in it you know and you rebuild the engine yep did the roll cage did the did the motor and uh showed up on friday night how to go it went okay and uh got got better and better at it. And then we decided my dad had this bright idea that we should go run the guy I worked for, A.C. Nutter, we should go run his tour car, which is like a tour car.

So tour car is like a southwest tour, northwest tour, northwest tour. Okay. So a step above a late model. So, you know, it would have been like a big 10 car or something like that. So we went and ran some of those races about half a season, quarter season. We really didn't have the money. But that's when I really got my skill and understood what a car. was castor camber you know yeah the whole thing wedge the whole thing in and out so we come back can't really afford that so i built another street stock car for myself and now with all that knowledge 74 nova went out first middle of the season i show up at the racetrack qualifying the trophy dash win the trophy dash run good in the main and what happens from there is kind of funny because after that

people come over like who's this guy or who's this kid they come over and look at my car And they're like, who built this? Who put the cage in it? Who did? And I said, I did. And out of that, a bunch of people wanted me to do roll cage work and build them cars. So here I am, you know, 19 years old or something. So I started my own business.

You know, I worked for my parents anyway. So I kind of start my own deal. I'm like, this is my thing. I'm an entrepreneur. I love to, you know, do that kind of stuff. And now I can do something I love. So I started building roll cages and building cars and bought a distrable. distributor from Coleman machine, started selling all the parts. And from there, it just kind of

escalated. You know, then I built limited sportsmen and started building late model cars. You? Yeah. And you built, you, how many race cars do you think you built? Probably 50. Wow. Yeah, we built about 15, 20 late model sportsman cars a year. Wow. Something like that's really cool. And then I hired Roger and he was. Who works for you now? It just got you the same guy that just got you here. Holy s. They go way back. I hired Roger. He was 16 and I was 19.

So he's three years younger than me. And a fabricator like you've never seen before. And so we started building late model cars and then I got a chance to drive. And I had a tour car. We built ourselves a tour car, run a few races. And then I went back and started racing late models and had a lot of success. Won a lot of races. Won a track championship.

At Portland. At Portland. And Tri-Cities five hours away. So Friday night, Saturday night. You won both championships? You won the same year. Wow. How do you get a notice and get the job to drive a truck?

So it's pretty crazy. So we sit at home like 1994 or five and watch this Tucson Winter Heat series on ESPN. Yep. And Roger and, like, we're going to that next year. So I think the next year was maybe 96 or maybe the next year was 95. So we plan to go to that. race that three race series televised ESPN. We go down there, qualified

fourth, one. Qualified fourth again, won the second one. And then I finished, you know, third or fourth. This is in your late model. In my late model, yep. And so I go down to win the series and I became friends with Benny Parsons.

Yep. And we came back and won the race. How did you become friends with him? He, you know him. He walks through the garage area. He talks to everyone, knows everyone. Yeah. bigger than life kind of guy. You know, he doesn't sit up in the booth or sit in the TV compound. He's down there walking through the pits.

Because they were broadcasting the series? Yes. That's how he was there. Right. So they're televising this ESPN series, right? And so that's where the year before your father hired Ron Hornaday from that series. Yeah. So I come and race at the following year. and Kevin Harvick came out of that series.

So I go and race it the following year, and it was kind of a cool story. So I go a lap down, 75 laps, hot dog break, another 75. So the first 75 laps, I get lapped, right? You know, close to halfway. So I'm third on the grid, but lapped. We come in, I've got a flat right front.

You know, I didn't know why the car just got tight, wouldn't turn, got a flat tire. So go back out. they throw the green, I pass the second place car and the leader, get back on the lead lap, come around and lap the entire field was, you know, in the 75 laps and won. And, you know, Benny was impressed. And, you know, from there, I said, you know, how do I get the, you know, next opportunity? And he said, you know, he puts his hand on my back.

He goes, I'll pass your name around. You know, I know a lot of guys and whatever else. So the story goes, Benny Parsons, again, in the garage area at Michigan, talks to Jack Roush and Jack says, hey, I wasn't able to hire Tommy Kendall to drive my third truck team, whatever else. They're just BSing. He said, hey, don't forget about that kid I told you about out in Washington. He'll do a good job. He went back, told Jeff Smith to hire me. Wow. No test, no resume, no anything. They called me on the phone and hired me. That was it. Wow, just on his word. Yeah. On his word. It's unheard of. And later on, Benny told me, he said, I've only recommended

had two guys in this sport. And he said, one was Ernie Irvin and the other one was you. Holy moly. And it's kind of a remarkable story, honestly. It really is. So that's how I got my opportunity. It's just like winning the lottery. So then you move.

You move to North Carolina with a job already in hand. I pack up my stuff. I got to wind down my business. I got six cars to build. I got to be in Michigan, you know, and I'm like trying to. And this was in September. So I had till, you know, the end of the year to try and figure this out. So, and then the truck team was in Michigan for the first three years.

Ooh, really? Yeah. So I moved to Michigan. Oh. Yes. That's why. Not North Carolina. Not North Carolina.

So I moved to Michigan. And then when I got to run the Xfinity series or the Bush series, then I moved here. Okay. Did you know, Rouse had as a truck operation? I didn't. I don't remember that. I never heard of that. But, yeah.

It was in Livonia. Yeah. Hmm. What did you know about the truck series at that point? I knew quite a bit about it because I was obviously a steward of the sport, so I really was watching it, paying attention to it. You know, I knew a lot about it. Gotcha.

You know, talking about your racing career just right before the truck deal, in 1995 you had 27 wins. You're second to Larry Phillips in Division standings, the Pacific Coast Division. You're racing just specifically at those two racetracks? just those two tracks. And I think the way it worked back then, Jr., is you were allowed to choose two tracks

and accumulate your finishes, like, as a point standing, for those two racetracks. So in 1995, you were running in the Winston Racing Series, and I was also in the Winston Racing Series on the East Coast in the Mid-Atlantic region. You were in the Pacific Coast Division. I was in the Mid-Atlantic. Right.

That's cool. You had a much better experience than I did. I did okay, hey. When you get the offer, so I imagine this is probably like a big shock, right? A huge shock. What is the reaction from your friends, your family, your parents? What is the reaction to everybody in this tiny little town? It's quite incredible, really.

And I mean, the way, sort of the way the phone call goes or the story goes quickly is, you know, we ran this small shop and built these cars. And it was like three of us. It was me, Roger, a four of us, you know, and I had a parts guy. We're getting ready to go to lunch. And that's when Roger and I sit down still at lunch and we talk about business. And we talk about what we're doing and where we're going and kind of what we're working on. So we're getting ready to go to lunch. And my parts guy pages me, says, Jeff Smith's on the phone for you.

And I'm like, I don't know who that is. But why did he give his first and last name? And I said, I'll take the call real quick. Because you never know. you know what I mean with Tucson winter heat so I answer the phone and I'm in there and Rogers kind of pacing around a little bit and five minutes later Roger's back to work I see sparks and he's welding because he he doesn't he hates to stand around so like 20 minutes later you know I have a window in my office that looks out in the shop 20 minutes later he's standing in

the window like coming out here you know are we going you know and so I write Jack roush from the phone and you know or on a piece of paper and hold it up and he's like like, you know, whatever. It goes back to work. Hour later, I get off the phone. I'm like, what a long conversation this was. It was, you know, because Jeff knew nothing about me. You know, send me a picture of you. It's like he, you know, there was really no, you know, internet and, you know, they couldn't like Google and see everything. So it was, it was interesting. So they had a contract ready? They faxed me a contract. What was the contract? Funny enough, I don't have a fax machine. My mom does. And her, their steel yard was like a

block away. So I walk over there and I get all my faxes from my mom's shop. So they faxed me a contract and my mom and dad are in their small modular office. And I'm on like page four of this contract. And I said, does it really matter what this says? They're going to pay me, you know, $70,000 to drive a car, race car, and I don't have to pay for anything. I said, you know, You know, I just turned to the last page and signed it. Yeah. What was the deal? How long?

I think it was like a four-year deal. You know, so all the Roucher's contracts were fairly lengthy. So it gave them runway to, you know, sign another contract. And so I always signed contracts the year before I was in my option year. Yeah. They would negotiate it, you know, because they didn't want me talking to other teams. So year before, we always negotiated, you know, the next three years or whatever it might have been. And you ran, you raced for Roush from that moment on until you retired.

Or until you didn't ever retire, until you quit racing in the Cup Series full time. Yeah. Did you ever get another offer from another team? I got offers, very thankful. I got offers all the time. Yeah. What were some of the most compelling offers that you were like, golly, this is a good one? Drive the 20 car for Gibbs.

What year or what? That was right before Lugano, went in it. When Tony was leaving? Yeah. My gosh. Were you in a position? where you could have even really considered it or were you, you were scooped up. I was, but I was on the run to win the title.

So you have such a good year. So I would have had to announce in my championship title run in my first time in Cup. I'm like, I can't do that. You know, I mean, this guy gave me a chance and I won a truck championship and Xfinity title, and now I'm about to win the Cup title. And I'm going to sign with another team. So let me ask you this. So obviously you're in a great car about to win a championship,

so you're probably like, yeah, the equipment's a lateral move. Right. All that's fine. Yeah. Was the money on the Gibbs side really, really good? It was about the same. Really? It was about the same.

Well, I negotiated a new deal off of that. So what I was making then, no. The rumor in the garage for all these years, the Roush contracts, were notoriously bad. Well, you know, I know that I think that Carl got paid a fair amount of money. And the days I raced and Jeff Smith was in charge, it was a fairly reasonable deal compared to, I could have made a little bit more money going some other places. Yeah.

But not a tremendous amount more. What was the perks about racing at Roush? What were some of the things that were like, and this is better, this is something the other teams can't offer? You know, I'll be perfectly honest with you. Honestly,

I should have left several times, two or three times. I think I should have. Because later on, we just didn't have the equipment. You know, we just didn't have the equipment we needed. And I think I could have went somewhere else

and won a lot of races and potentially a championship. But I was afraid. I was afraid in kind of in my career, if you will. And I was just nervous about making that change. You know what's like switching teams? Yeah. And I was just, you know, I just, I was nervous to do it.

The other thing that was a big factor is I was really good friends with all of my sponsors, all throughout my career. And so 3M was my sponsor. And I was good friends with the upper management. I'd go do retreats with them and do stuff. And I would have had to leave those people as well. And so that was a lot of it was a determining factor. So it's a three-way deal, right? Team owner, sponsor, driver.

You know, that was a – but especially in the later years, I felt like when Carl left and then Matt left. You were like, hey, I might should have. Yeah. And so where could you have went? I think the off you know opportunities then were we're RCR and still potentially Gibbs and you know I've got I got offers from you know other places as well yeah you know ownership offer and you know petty back when that that one gentleman came in

and bought part of it and I was like yeah man I don't know you know they're offering to the world yeah but um I've and I felt an affinity to Rouch and And I felt like, you know, when you feel like next week's going to be better or next month or next season or next? How did that happen, though? Because that's always been puzzling to me. Roush, Jack Roush to me is the epitome. I mean, he's a racer.

He is a racer, but also a very sharp businessman. If there's anybody that could build a race program that would just succeed. it would be him and he did. He did. Absolutely. Built an empire. Where did it go the wrong direction? Technology.

How? Technology. He let or we let technology pass us by. And, you know, Robbie Reiser is a great guy, very smart guy. But, you know, Robbie tried to be, you know, we were really late to having a competition director. Gibbs had one RCR had one we didn't have a competition director

and Jack prided himself in doing more with less and we were way late putting Robbie in charge of competition director and then we left Robbie in charge way too long and didn't provide more support

like Robbie should have been in charge of the shop floor right he was super good at that And, you know, we, we should have had other people layered up for technology. And we just, we were just behind, you know, when it was the front bar and the driver and the crew chief, we were, you know, Jackson gave us everything we needed. We were unbeatable through some of those years, all five cars in the chase. And when all that started, I remember RCR has the seven post rig and they got all this stuff and they run, they run terrible. you know, they weren't winning races, you know, and we're sort of like got our chest stuck out.

But eventually the table started to turn when they started figuring that out. You know how it was back when the engineer told you what sway bar you should run. Yeah. They were a laughing stock. They're like, that's not going to work. Right. Because it didn't work then. Yeah.

And I think Jack got in his head, that stuff doesn't work even though he's kind of an engineering guy. anyway, that whole simulation and aerodynamically and whatnot, we just stalled out there and kept the same people and tried to do the same thing over and over and try and reinvent ourselves. Yeah. And we were just stuck in the mud. Yeah. Did all of this predate, like when you say Rouse peaked and started declining and getting behind on technology, did this predate the Finway? partnership. I mean, I'm trying to get my timeline right and then kind of like remember how this whole rouse trajectory went. Well, I think it was right around there. They came in right at when we

were doing well, right? Before kind of all that technology and simulation and all that stuff took off and aerodynamics, right? I think we got beat pretty bad on aerodynamics. We had a few opportunities to compare ourselves to like Pinsky. For instance, I'll never forget this. We blow the two car in the 16 car, and we're 90 pounds of downforce off. Yeah. So let me back up.

When we merged with Petty, when Casey Cain drove over there, they had about 45 pounds more rear downforce than we did. 45, which doesn't sound like a lot. We go test Phoenix, and they arrow matched the car in the tunnel. They put 45 on the back of my car. We go to Phoenix and at 11 in the morning,

they put on whatever made 45 pounds of downforce and the car is three-tenths a lap faster. All the side grip in the world coming off the corner and just lay in the throttle. It was like, there's no way you're going to beat this. It's impossible. They take it back off.

We have two more days of testing left, a day and a half. I said, guys, we need to go home. There's no spring and shock. There's nothing to the toolbox that's going to fix us. So fast forward a couple years later, three or four years later, five years later, we compare our car to the two car. They're 90 pounds of downforce better than us.

Some of the front, some of the back, 90 total. We arrow balance our car and create 30 horsepower of drag to get the same downforce as a two car. Now we're 30 horsepower drag worse than the two by matching the downforce. We go test Michigan. And at Michigan, same deal. We put the arrow pieces on to match the two car. It was three quarters of a second a lap faster with the arrow map that the two car had. And you think the car's going to go.

Remember the argument we down force will slow the car down. 30 horsepower drag. It was three miles an hour faster at the end of the straightaway and five miles an hour faster in the middle of the corner because you didn't have to slow the car down and then re-accelerated. So we were off all through that, mostly arrow. I say simulation and seven posts and all that. It was probably mostly arrow.

Anytime we did that and we'd recognize it and we go, oh no, and we'd go home to work on it. and we maybe found like 45 of the 90. Well, that only gets you halfway there. You know, so, and another trait that we had is in traffic, we're really bad. When we get out front, we could take off, you know, because we could kind of overcome that arrow part. But when we got back in traffic or we'd get a bad pit stop, we're done for the day.

We can't get back up there. Going back to Jack Roush, what is his response? From a driver's perspective, and I'm assuming, you know, you guys had, you know, a bunch of teams and you have all the, I'm assuming you guys talk. And so it's like, what is Jack Roush's response? And I ask this question by prefacing this. We've never really had good conversation about Jack Roush. It's almost like he's a mystery man till this day for us. And so you are sort of our only insight into what this would have been like and what Jack Roush is like. I'd love to have him on the show, as a matter of fact. But the fact is, he's sort of a mystery. So what was Jack's response to this?

were clearly off, did he just say, we're not going to go invest in technology now or we're not going to go invest in Arrow? People win races. People win championships. It's about the people. And my thing was, is we weren't, we were trying to reinvent ourselves with the same people and not even moving them around. And we needed to try something different to get out and get going. You know, I almost had Chad Canals hired. Really? I mean, I believe that. There was some moments when Chad was available.

I was trying to get him to come and save Rausufenway in late 2014. Oh, wow. 2015, right in there. I was trying to get him. I said, Chad, you can be the guy. You can be the Ray Everham or the whoever. Set your own destiny, but you're the guy that can you imagine if he's, came over there and Raus Fenway is rivaling Penske and Hendrick and Haw, you know, Stuart Haas,

right now under his leadership. And it would have happened. I think you're right. It would have happened. Yeah. And we were close, but it was probably, you know, people just didn't want to hand over the baton yet. One of the things that I found interesting about Roush that differs from most about, most every other organization is how, and it may have started with Mark, is how Jack

allowed the drivers to have, to not only have an opinion about direction, but also sort of shape and steer. Now, I know it was probably ultimately Jack's decision on what happened and what y'all did, but it felt like all these years watching you and Mark and other people in that organization, the drivers particularly, where in most organizations, man, like the drivers, you know, we got opinions, obviously. We've got a voice on. Sure.

But we're never really making the choices. We're never really offering up massive solutions or big shifts or big, you know, culture changes and whatnot. Whereas Jack kind of had y'all in the room all the time. when there was conversations going on or discussions, you guys were always at the table. Is that the reality of it? It is. And it's unique that you have that, you've had that view and recognize that because I see it, I agree with it and disagree with it.

Because I'm not a management and a people person and all that. But Jack's view was let's let the best people decide, right? The driver knows. The driver has an opinion. He feels like the driver knows what he needs to win. You know, that driver really feels like in, and he ran it as individual teams. Jack ran it as, as me, my crew chief, and our engineer. And we were kind of in charge of our own destiny.

He would keep guardrails, right? Yeah. But, but, you know, you guys are in charge of if you think you need a drop snout car, or you think you need this front suspension or this. And he would challenge the five teams, right, to figure out what the best is. And then if Matt's winning with, you know, this style of front suspension and this style of something, he'll be putting pressure on us. Why are you not, you know, doing that?

And he felt like if you have four or five cars figuring out what is the best, you'll end up out of 43. Casting a bigger net, yeah. You'll end up casting a bigger net and have unbeatable. You know, one of those cars will be winning and then the other four would be able to bring up the rear, so to speak. And so he believed in that structure. And that structure worked for a long time. Then when technology started taking over, we didn't really have, I don't feel like we had that management structure there, like I talked about.

Robbie was the only guy. Robbie's sitting in there sort of, right? I mean, there were other people, but I feel like, I feel like that, that, you know, we could have guided that ship a little bit better and shaped it. When I think about your career, you know, I always enjoyed racing with you and felt like that, you know, I never had a problem or saw anything on the racetrack as far as, man, you know, why did he do that? Or that was a, that was a jerk move. We always had, I don't remember ever. I don't either. Ever, having a problem on the racetrack.

But there were drivers that you had issues with. Sure. Was this, when you think back to be quite transparent, when you think back to racing at the short tracks, going through the truck series even, what would you say you patterned yourself after? And did you have conflicts at these short track levels? Did you, were you, you well respected by everybody?

Did you get along with everybody? What was the... You know, I tried to, honestly, I tried to stay under the radar, tried to stay out of the conflict because that only creates you more issues going down the road, right? Because that guy is going to pay you back, whatever else. But I'll tell you, Jr., the thing that every driver has to figure out in my issue all the way back from street stock to late model days and coming up is patience, you know, not run that right front tire off, not run that right rear tire off, not overdrive the car

every single lap. And that pays dividends later on in life and in, you know, in these races is to have that those patience. You know, and I was probably overaggressive, you know, and I see like Ross Chastain. I watch him. I think he's got a lot, a lot of talent. But I see him overaggressive, at some times that's cost him and may cost him later, but he's learning his way, right? He's got to learn it for himself, and he's going to recognize that,

damn, that didn't work out, you know? You can't teach somebody that. Yeah. At the same time, you can't get a guy to go faster. You can't tell a guy to be more aggressive on the racetrack. That doesn't work. It's easier to tell a guy to calm down. And so that's probably one of my traits that, you know,

I was probably, too aggressive and racing or I'll never forget when Sterling Marlin came over after the race at Michigan and chewed my ass. Why? Because I wouldn't let him go and I was racing the the devil out of him, you know, lap after lap after lap. And you know, maybe he's clear up beside me. We're wheel to wheel and I'd drive it down in the corner 10 miles and not let him, you know, not let him by. But I learned, you know, from those things getting yelled at from from a few guys, right? Yeah.

And, you know, you have to, you have to learn that. But I tried to respect everyone as much as I could. So you didn't have many conflicts, but you had a notable dispute with Harvick multiple times, it seemed like. Yep. Jay Sauter came into the car and threw a punch at you. Is that true? Vice versa. Yeah, vice versa.

You threw a punch of him. So, oh, that was at Richmond. Yeah. I remember that. Xfinity race. Yep. So I was being probably a little. aggressive and we had a full

we had the field stacked up behind us there was a full straightaway in front of us and he was holding everyone up and and I nudged him a little bit off a two and probably the nudge he wasn't able to hold on to it and he wrecked and so he went in the pits

and said I'm going to fix my car and go back out and wreck him and that's what he did you know we were running for a championship he comes back on the track and just wipes me out off of turn four right Did that punch land? Yes. And did he have his helmet still on?

He did. And so. But there was no Hans and I punched him right in the collarbone on the side of the neck right under the helmet. I'm not going to punch him in the helmet. You found a vulnerable spot. Went for it. So. I was upset.

Yeah, sure. But what did he, did y'all have conversation afterwards ever? We did, I think, later on. Yeah. Yeah. But it was, but not. I was looking around the infield care center when I was over there. I was still pretty upset.

Had you ever done anything like that up into that point? Had you ever punched somebody in a car and had you ever been in fights out of the car? Not really. Yeah. Not particularly. I mean, not at the racetrack. When Harvard come over the roof of the car at Bristol, did you think, were you shocked? I wasn't, I wasn't really shocked.

So that punch, Jay Sauter, cost me $15,000. Oh. And Roush Fenway made me pay for it out of my money. and they penalized me points. So I got points taken away and a $15,000 fine. So fast forward to the next year when we're at Bristol and I give Harvick the little nudge the bump and run and you watch the video.

He overcorrects and just drove it straight in the fence to the right. And I'm not going to say I'd have saved it or he just saved it. Whatever. But it's, you know, So when I saw Harbitt coming and my crew guy said, hey, you're, you know, he's coming down here. Oh, you knew he was coming. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, I'm not, I'm not going to touch him. I'm not doing nothing. I'm going to keep my hands to my side. Because I would have, you know, if that wouldn't have happened, if I wouldn't have got fined and that, I probably would have hit him with uppercut, just knocked him out right as he jumped off the back of the car. You know, I mean, I would have. But I'm like, I just kept my hands to my side. I said, I'm not doing anything. anything because I'm leading the points and I'm trying to win the title and they they took away in the same situation remember from a year ago where you had the points and the fine absolutely and

i got a stark lesson on no fight NASCAR then okay not today NASCAR then was no bullshit there's no fighting there's no there's none of that so what i what i can remember from that is that that obviously the media plays this up, right? Sure. So the thing happens at Bristol and the media plays it up. And, I mean, I don't know. We just now stop seeing that when we go to Bristol. It might actually come back up this weekend.

I know. It's funny. Yeah. So I used to hate that as a driver, but now I understand why it sells tickets. There was a lot going on. It wasn't just you and Harvick. Jimmy Spencer and Jack Sprague were also, Jack is running down the front straightaway. Oh, I didn't know that.

At the same race? Not only the same race, but that fight is about to happen because I'm working for Spencer. Jimmy sent Jack just hard into the wall, and they were all racing in the top three. And Jack is running down the straightaway after Spencer, and that's about to happen. As soon as that happens, though, Harvard comes off, and both of those drivers are now watching y'all. Y'all, if you want to look at the silver lining, you did avoid another fight. That's good. Yeah, if that makes you feel any better.

because Jimmy now is up on the wall waving his towel, getting the fans excited because there's this big melee going on at your car. So, I mean, it's funny you say that NASCAR did not like fights because it all would have unraveled that day. And I think that later on, I think they recognized that that brings attention in fans. And in 2000, whatever year it was, they didn't need any more fans and attention. They already had it. But as that declines, you're like, okay, what can we do to make something exciting, right?

But the rival, the thing with Harvard carried on a little bit. It did. I think we had to run in like at Martinsville one time in practice. Yeah. You know, and he pulled out in front of me. We're making a run or vice versa and then break check me or something like that. So I went down and had some words with him about that, you know. Yeah, I remember that.

It almost just looked like a misunderstanding that you guys kind of handled civilly, right? We did. We did. You guys go talk. Yeah, I just walked down there and said, you know, did you mean to pull out in front of me? Didn't see me. Spotter didn't see you.

I don't remember exact conversation, you know, but we talked about it. And that was that? That was that. And then you, you know, for the rest of your cup career. We got along fine. Got along great. Yeah. If you're a die cast collector like me, then you're excited about the start of a new race season.

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The situation with Kurt and the wives and girlfriends on the pit box, how did you view that experience? And what was, so, I mean, I'm, I'm, I would. It's pretty entertaining. I know, I would have, but I would have probably said, you can't do that. I did. But I was in the car. That was on the TV. Right.

everybody saw you what did you do that's exactly what I said I probably if you had a tape recorder you just said it and I think after the fact she felt the same way

was embarrassed about it because she didn't do it for TV no you know she did it because she was pissed and their friends kind of were all friends yeah everybody

and you're going to he's going to hurt somebody What happened on the racetrack? He just, he was, I think he was pissed about something. I don't know what, but it was a very end of the backstretch at Texas. And he just, he just turned me, just caught my bumper. I don't know if I moved up a little bit to get an arc down in the corner. But anyway, he just, you know, I don't know if he's pissed at Roush.

Yeah. Whatever the case might be, right? So it, Kurt's Kurt. And, you know, that's what happened. Was that the end of that? That was the end of that, yeah. So, Boris said. Oh yeah, I love this one.

So, me and Boris are friends. Yeah, I'm friends with Boris too. I can't believe Boris being that mad at anybody. But apparently, you know, whatever happened on the racetrack, I can, I mean, Watkins Glen produces some of the, some of those moments. Walkins Glen is kind of like the Madden, Xbox game will make some of best friends. I remember how each other's guts

Dale Jarrett was mad at you that day Oh yeah So it's a funny story Because him and I We had a little run in earlier in the race

He was a I think he was a lap down And we had a run in And you know I don't remember what it was But it wasn't significant You know It was not really

At all significant We had some issue a break issue, something in the race. So we're multiple laps down. We had to pit and fix it. So we're a green-white checkered at Waukins-Glent. Y'all are near the back. I'm in the very back.

Yeah. I'm not even in the race. Yeah. He purposely hooks David Reagan. He's multiple laps down. David Reagan, I think, was maybe a lap down. Hooks David Reagan on the after turn one. That big crash.

Hooks David Reagan, sends him into that wall, he flips upside down, comes across the track, slams into that wall. I slow down and I'm like, what was that for? I mean, like literally on purpose because, you know, we were all at the back. They weren't even racing for position. Yeah. You know? And I have no idea why that happened.

and so then I gave him, you know, told him he was number one. So you flipped him off. The rest of the way back. And, you know, I don't know if I, what else I did, but I didn't wreck him or anything, but the rest of the way back and all the way in the pits. Okay. You know, I told us. And that's what caught, that's what got him fired up.

Yeah. Was I was. So he came over to. So I pull in, get out of my car. And I'm, I'm mad because my teammate just went head on in the, and upside down across the race track for no reason. And so I'm just, I'm shaking mad at that. A part-time driver comes in and does that to a guy for,

it doesn't matter who it is. So my team guy hands me a bottle of water, right? I take the cap off, take a drink of it. And he pulls up, Boris pulls up beside my car in, in you know we pull it behind our transporters

his transporter he's over there we're top five and two points or top ten of points he pulls up and is flailing his arms and he's doing all this

and you know doing all that and I sort of lost my cool and he has his window net down and his helmet off and was trying to get out of his car and I took the water bottle and it was a really good shot

from about 10 feet away I threw the water ball as hard as I could and just beamed him in the side of the head. Oh, no! Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I was upset. Yeah.

And so then I went running over there to the side of the car. He was still in the car. And I grabbed his steering wheel and, you know, we were having some. Tug of War. So we were having some Tug of War because I was going to beat him with that steering wheel. Are you serious? Yes. Yes.

What? Yeah, I don't know. He's a big guy. He's a big guy. And he was still in the car. Yeah, you're trying to keep him in there. So. Taking a steer wheel.

So anyway. We're going to wrestle, but you're staying in the car while we're doing that. Yeah. So anyway, then guys come in and break it up. Yeah. You know. And he's hotter in hell. He's hotter and hell.

He's hot and hell. He's hot and hell finally gets out of the car. His interview is a classic. Yeah. And my guys got a hold of me and my feet are about that far off the ground. You know, so that was that was that. Did you all have conversations later? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. You'll laugh about it today. We laugh about it. He's a good dude. That's funny. He is. So beyond that, man, I mean, that was pretty much all the conflicts you were in. You kind of had at one point this sort of little reputation.

I think when you first came in in the Cup series, people were thinking or maybe wondering if you were this overaggressive sort of hothead, push people around kind of guy. But then you really transitioned into, you know, a fast championship caliber, you know, well-respected. People love you. Even today, you know, when you do anything on social media or whatever, everybody's like, oh, the Biff, man, yeah, the Biff, we love that guy, right?

I mean, it is. And you've got to be excited. You've got to be happy about that, I think, about how you were able to kind of, you know, create this great, respected persona. Yeah, I mean, you want to, that's exactly right. you want your legacy to be, you know, respect and you want to treat, you know, my parents always taught me that, you know, treat people the way you want to be treated. And so I try to treat people on the racetrack when I was racing you or I was racing anyone. I tried to treat them

with, you know, I'm trying to pass you and do all I can do and put a bumper to you if I have to, but I wouldn't do anything I wouldn't expect you to do back to me, you know, with, with, respect. And so that's, you know, that's raced hard and tried to be respectful. You coming into the truck series in your mid to late 20s. Yep. Right? It's not a big deal if you're thinking about, okay, you know, Dale Earnhardt didn't really get going in the cup series still about the same time in his life, right?

Nowadays, though, you know, it cycles. You know, Jeff Gordon kind of got going in his mid-20s. Then everybody wants younger drivers. I think it's going to eventually kind of cycle back to where, you know, a 25 to 30 year old is an acceptable guy to hire, you know, to start his cup career. But when, at any point in your career, did you ever have a feeling of, damn, out, you know, I wish I'd have made it, I wish I'd have got here sooner. All the time.

Yeah. All the time. And I wonder if, when you were starting to wrap up that, you know, that final year, getting toward the back end of your cup career, was that a time when you started to have some, I don't know if this regrets the right word, but thinking, man, I wish this was. Yeah, I think regret, and also, Jr., regret that I didn't go somewhere else. I didn't try something different. I didn't try something different.

Damn it. You know? So that probably. I went and ran a petty car. I filled in for Jerry Nadu when he broke, heard his. ribs. I drove Andy Petrie's car when he got hurt at Richmond race in the trucks. Gosh, dang it.

I'll think of it. Hamilton? Yeah, Bobby Hamilton. So I drove those cars and was running up front in a cup race. Yeah. You know? And I drove Petty's car as the same thing. And then I go drive the Rouse cars and they're not anything like.

that. Yeah. You know? And I always wonder if I just got an opportunity to drive a good, you know, good car where I'd have gotten to. That's, and of course, you always wish you had to started earlier. But it's funny. It's sort of like when I came in, guys were, it was unheard of to hire somebody to drive

a cup car. It was under 25, 28. It didn't happen. And I'm not saying I started a trend because Jeff Gordon was younger than I was. but when Jack hired me and then Jack had that talent you know show or gong show

or let's find he's like how many more guys like you are across the U.S. Out there yeah you know and so Jack said I'm going to bring all these young guys in and see how many more there are and I handpicked

at Toledo Ohio I handpicked Kurt Bush I said they wanted to hire this other guy said that's your guy and we hired Kurt was like 18 or 19 you know and so here comes

Kurt in and then we hire his brother his brother is 16 I forgot about that we hire his brother 16 years old and all of a sudden it's going shoo

and NASCAR made the age rule because of Kyle Bush yeah yeah that's right they made the rule he's going to race that truck at Fontana yeah DeLan Hart Jr. Chevrolet

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Talk about, tell me about your final full-time season. Do you know it's your final full-time season? Yeah, I knew. I knew. I knew. Well, so, so I'll be, I'll be perfectly honest with you. I, it was killing me inside to not be able to be competitive. And I told myself as a driver, the first time I go to that racetrack and get in that car and know, for a fact, I can't win, I'm not going to do it anymore.

I'm not going to race just to be on the racetrack. We love it. to race. Yeah. And I had a year left in my contract. And I was not going to race at Rausch another year. Yep. I wasn't going to do it.

I couldn't stand it because we ended up that our goal was to stay in the lead lap. We're trying to stay in the lead lap. Yeah. And I'm not going to do that. Sure. I'm not going to do that. And we're lying to ourselves. If we, there's 30 of us in this meeting on Tuesday telling Jack and telling ourselves that next week's going to be better.

Mm-hmm. And next week's going to be better. And so I had to make a decision that I wanted to get out of my last year, my contract. And I tried and tried and tried to get released from my last year so that I could go sign a contract. I was close to driving the 31 car. I was close to driving some of these other cars and they kept telling me they're going to release me telling me they're going to release me

and we'll bring sign at Phoenix that was before Homestead and they waited until the season was over before they'd release me and your opportunities were gone. So all right so at the end of the contract finally they release you, you're released you're free to go at no point in the next couple of years did a cup opportunity or a truck or anything

what was what were you wanting to do so that so I wanted to drive for a team I felt like I could win with and win a championship so my decision was I'm only going to go to a team you can win with that I can win with all right so I got lots of phone calls for opportunities to go drive, drive cars. And Kyle wore my ass out to come and run the truck and run for a title. Why didn't you? Once I had about five or six weeks off or ten weeks off, I fell in love with having some free time.

I've done this. But damn, the truck series schedule is pretty. I know. So then finally, you know, we're sitting around a campfire at my place in the desert. And he's like, are you going to run my truck? Texas or not. You and Kyle. Yeah.

Doing a doom buggies. And I'm like, all right, I'll do it. You know? And he's like, okay, that was in March. And so then the spring Texas race, I went there and tested. And then I went back and ran, I ran like 12, 14 laps. Then I went back in that, you know, July or whatever it was and ran that truck race for him. Aside from that, though, were there other operators?

Did any cup teams at least reach out, just see what you're doing? Yes. You know, what are your plans? Did you feel like that you turned down opportunities then? Yeah, I turned down about all, obviously, I turned down all of them. Winning opportunities. You know. Not winning opportunities.

I was, so if I made the list, it was going to be Stuart Haas, Gibbs, Hendrick, RCR, and none of those people were giving you opportunities. I talked to some of them, but it never materialized. That's what I'm asking. Is it how many conversations or how many actually led to an actual opportunity for to decide on is what I was thinking about. And I didn't pursue it madly, you know, because I was enjoying so much of being semi-retired, right? And I did it for 20 years and never had a Saturday or Sunday off, right? So you go run the truck race? You win. That didn't, that didn't change anything.

Oh, God, it lit the fire in me. But damn it, you didn't go do nothing after that. I know. I was like, it lit the fire in me. But, you know. It lit the fire in me. But, But I felt like then, I felt like then I may have been past a cup opportunity. You love to drive. I love to drive. You love driving. Yep. All right.

And I bet when you drove that truck, I bet when you walked in that garage, you went, man, this is nice. Yeah. No cut throat back stabbing. This is just, we're here to have some fun. We're here to have fun. You went, you practice. No pressure. Go and run the race, win the race.

Awesome. And I think probably where you're going and probably my final decision is, you know, I've had a lot of head concussions. Oh. And it, you know, those, you know, days you get out of the race car, your ears are ringing and, you know, you're dehydrated for two or three or four days. And, you know, I'd already want to. title in the truck, and it was so much fun. But it's dangerous. Yeah. Right. You know, and plus the truck series, a lot of young guys in there doing dumb shit. Yeah, yeah. Right. Hook you in the right rear at Charlotte. I still remember when the motor blew up in that thing you were, that Hendrick car

you were driving. I went straight in the fence behind you. Which one is it? In the oil. Charlotte. I don't know if it was the 600 or Charlotte race. Yeah. You blew up getting into three. and I just, I augured it in straight behind him. Yeah, it was a... And you got concussed off that? Well, I wouldn't say I got concussed, but it was, you know... rang your bell? Yeah, rang my bell.

I was sore for a few days. Yeah, yeah. But I thought about all those things and how much I love to drive. I was like, is it worth it? Yeah. You know, and you had kids. I mean, isn't that right? Yep.

Yeah. You would have had kids by then. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So I was like, God, I want to do it. but I rather do it part-time than do it every week. So I race in the Xfinity Series once a year,

but I only have a very, very short list of tracks I'm willing to race at. I will not go race at Texas. There ain't going to be no Atlanta races for me. It's Martinsville, Richmond, you know, Darlington, those tracks where you kind of got a little more control of your destiny. That's right. And so those are the opportunities that you're still open to sort of, you know, considering if they come about.

That's right. The other question then is you grew up racing, you know, late models. You grew up racing those type of, and you can go run at slow, fun, short tracks and and dig around. And I know that you still have that bug. How come you haven't ever tried that? So it's funny because ever since, I started racing trucks, Xfinity and Cup.

I got my fill off of that, right? That's where I got my deal. And then I started doing the desert stuff. Yep. And I'll tell you, I'm going to get your ass there one of these days. Yeah. It's so much fun and it's so exhilarating that I have as much fun doing that is I do going to Hickory on Friday night or Saturday night.

I really do. Okay. And I can go anytime I want, I can ride for 20 minutes or an hour. I can, you know, stop and do whatever. It's not 15 minutes of practice and this and that. But as I've been away from out of the car longer, I have had interest in doing that, you know, and going back and especially after this Wilkesboro deal. Man, I'm telling you. You know?

And I like doing fun stuff. Like, I wanted to run the Crown Vic race. I was like, I'm so jacked up. I love doing off the wall stuff. You did. No pressure. You went and ran the lemons at Virginia. Wasn't that the lemons race?

Yeah, I ran a lemons. I ran a few lemons races. I went all the way to Pittsburgh and ran a lemons race up there and had a ball. That was our first race. And then our second race was Carolina Motorsports Park in South Carolina and Kershaw. And that was an actual 24-hour. Most of them were just a Friday Saturday. Yeah.

You know, seven hours, eight hours. So we went and ran an actual 24-hour race and ended up winning that. And it was the most fun, I'm telling you. I know. We've talked about it. We really want to do it. The most fun I've had racing probably since I started my career. Because we built the car.

You know, I'm the crew chief, the driver, the team manager, like putting all the stuff together and tires and wheels and we kind of, not single-handedly, but sort of put this together. And I got four of my buddies that have never raced before, never race before. And I said, okay, here's a deal.

We're going to go run Pittsburgh to shake the car down. Because I'm serious about this 24-hour race. So we're going to go run this race and figure out what we, we're going to figure out the ropes. So we go up there and we have a ball running this race.

My other two guys spin out off the racetrack. You know, they're, figuring it out. I figure out we need bigger brakes. So we come back. I put bigger brakes on the car. I think I've got it figured out. Up there, we had fuel pickup problems, got the fuel cell figured out. We go down to Kershaw. And I know in about eight hours, it uses about three quarts of oil. So this thing makes 218 horsepower. I put it on my chassis dino. It's a bonestock engine, like a couple hundred thousand miles on it. So I said, okay, we're going to stop at midnight, and we're going to put four quarts oil in it.

We're going to change tires. And so we run, midnight comes, we come in, open the hood, put four tires on it, put four course oil in it, switch drivers. I mean, it was the funest. Doesn't that sound fun, Mike? It sounded fun when we were talking about it earlier this year, yeah. So how long do you drive when you get in the car? We drove for about an hour and a half, about two hours.

Yeah. And it's pretty easy because you're not, you, you, you, I tell people, you drive about as fast as you drive when you're in a hurry to get somewhere. Yeah, you know what I mean? You're not bald, you're not 100%. You're not 100%. So it's easy driving. Yeah.

You know, it's more strategy and. You're more just trying to hand the baton to the next guy. Yep. And the same shape you got it. That's right. Right. And we, we didn't get the lead until like 2.30 in the morning. Try not to break it.

Right. Yeah. We got to lead at like 2.30 in the morning. And so I'm in my motor home trying to sleep. I got the radio on the nightstand. You know, and I'm listening to them. And I just can't, I can't sleep. You know, I had like, I was war out. At the end of it, yeah. And my brother's driving in the middle of the night. And my brother's like, I can't see. You know, my brother's two years older than I am. And some of these cars got bright lights. And so we're just trying to milk it through. And it's hard getting. overtaken by, you know, these little four-cylinder cars that are faster in us in the corners and we're trying to, you know, stretch out some fuel. And he's like, man, you know, I got to get out. You know, I'm just, you know, so I'm like, I'm like, go wake up Ryan, you know, because Ryan's like 30, you know, like he'll be able to see the better than all of us at night, you know. And so we go get Ryan, we pit. And the thing is, when you pit, you lose three laps. Why?

Because you have to come down pit road in first gear and the guy has to get all the way out of the car before. Y'all can work on it? You know, y'all can work on it, put fuel in it, get the guy back in. I mean, if you don't have to go, and you can only use a five gallon can, you know, so you don't have fast dump cans. So it takes a little bit to do a pit stop. You lose two and a half laps, but anyway, we had a little bit of a cushion, so we brought

him in, put Ryan in, and off we went. And then I'm going to stretch my fuel window, my final run. So, you know, son's coming up. I put my buddy in. He's going to run her to the checker. And I'm getting nervous now because we got about a four-lap lead. And I'm like, I'm nervous because we barely have enough time to stop for fuel. And I'm like, Mike, you got to go slower. You know, I'm watching lap times. I'm like, you got to go slower. Short shift to fourth down the front. So I got him short shifting He's just easing this thing along And man we made it

We made it to the checker without running out of fuel It was fun It was so much fun I mean I just It's the most fun I've had in a long time That's definitely on our schedule Yeah we've been talking about Phil Parsons And his son I believe brought it up right

Mike Joy Was it Mike Joy? It was Mike Joy You're right That's who it was But it does sound fun So explain then You're having all this fun You've run five cup races this year

What is that about? Well, so that really comes down to when I stepped away from the car in 16 full-time, I said, I'll only come back for the right reason. I'll only come back if I can drive for a team, I think I can win races for, or to come back and help an injured driver if someone needs help, or an opportunity to use my 18 years of experience and skill or whatever to help someone And that was the right opportunity. John Cohen was starting this team.

And I, you know, I talked, Chevy called me and I knew RCR was building the car. And I just felt like it was the right opportunity to hop in there and make a go of it. You know, and it was that amount of time, I'm like, I wanted to be back at the track. Yeah. And those, no drivers got hurt, right? Thank God. And, you know, just the right opportunity hadn't come up. And he was wearing me out for about two years, about.

he's putting a team together, getting a team together, getting a team together. And so I just said, you know what, I don't think there's any expectation of how good you're going to do or whatever else. I said, I'll go back. I'll just drive it. Do you have any other plans to do more? You know, if he did a few more of them, like Junior said, there's a certain amount of tracks, bucket list type of places I like to go. I like to run. So I would do some more races for him.

you know if he gets this deal put together he's talking about talladega you know you would do taladega i like restrictor i love hate relationship i like restrictor plate racing because it it gives you an opportunity yeah and you know it's easier for us to win a taladega or run good than a than a richmond or a charlotte right and i don't love restrictor plate racing but it's fun sometimes when you're not in the big wreck and it gives you an opportunity. So I feel like that would be a good opportunity. Yeah.

Do you feel you were underrated, or people perceived you as underrated? I thought you were always really good at Restrictor Plate. Oh, yeah. I like it. We did. We duped it out for 2004, 14. That year I sat on the poll, I don't know,

did you win an 04? Yes. The Daytona 5th. 500? Yeah. You said on call and you blew motor or something. I've freaking got caught speeding coming to pit road. I had that thing won. What? 04? Man, I don't know. You're talking about the wall with Tony Stewart's up there contending. That's the one you got busted on on pit road? I had a fast car that year. Really fast car. That was like the first year with the Yates voters. Yep. Running with all these guys. We all pit. We all pit and I get caught speeding.

and I finished 12th. Yeah. Damn, God. I had to rewatch that one. Hey, so this is actually, you just reminded me of a question. What eats at you? Like, listen, you had a race where the championship might have been yours, or it should have been yours, but you had a race at Texas.

Yeah. That, I think, did you blow a tire? No, we had left a wheel loose. Left a wheel loose. So that, out of anything, of course, over my career, right, that eats at me. because we lost the championship by three positions over the 10 races. To Tony Stewart, right? To Tony Stewart.

And I was running third, and we had a wheel loose at Texas. And I had to come back down and change the wheel, put a new tire on. And we got a lap down. And we were in the lucky dog position every single time the leaders had passed somebody to caution to come out. And I'm not going to say NASCAR played a role in that, but Matt won it in 03. Kurt won it in 04, and I was going to win it in 05. Wow.

And I think, you know, I think that maybe somebody had, you know, deck was stacked against us a little bit. But in any event, the changer right rear changer left the wheel loose, you know, or right side guy left the wheel loose. And so we finished 20th that day, went and ran a good run at Phoenix and won at Homestead. And I was, I was less than 20 carlinks from Lap and Tony Stewart. He was like right there. And I mean, I'm foaming at the mouth. Cautions out. Debris.

And I'm like, oh. Where is it? Where is the no. Yeah. And anyway, I ended up winning that day. And, you know, I needed three more positions. and I would have got the title. So that's the one that eats at you,

and rightly so, I would say. It would have been, you know, back in 05, I'd have been, even today, nobody's won all three championships, but I would have got it done way back in 05, right? Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel? Visit shop.dirtimomedia.com. We're always adding new stuff all the time,

especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a T-shirt. Again, check it out. Dot.Durtymomedia.com. Hey, do you mind? Also, I wanted to ask you, and I know this is jumping around, but, you know, you're always so, first of all, you're very thoughtful in your responses, but your vantage point, again, is so unique, is that we went through all the conflicts that you've had.

We think there are all the conflicts you had. But there's a couple other that you would have had in a unique vantage point I want to ask you about, just what your opinion does. Okay. Carl versus Matt Kenseth, your teammates. Yeah. Remember when Carl, you know, like threads to punch. The throw.

What's going on? What were those team meetings like? They were exciting. I think, you know, Carl was a fiery person. And, you know, Matt is real as a matter of fact, right? And they were, they had some, you know, they had some issue on the racetrack. And let's face it, we're all, it doesn't matter, we drive for the same company, right? We're all, you know, passionate drivers.

And they had some run in on the racetrack, and, you know, they were not happy about it. And did that make it awkward for you? Did you just try to stay out of it? I mean, I just kind of tried to stay out of it, you know, mediated Jack said, you got to smooth it over between the guys, you know. And Matt, Matt is a different guy. Matt's got his opinion, and that's it. Yeah.

And you're not changing his mind. Right. You know, Matt saw it this way. That's the way Matt saw it. Yeah. And probably rightfully so. All right. Next one. When Kurt Bush sort of had his fall from grace at Roush, and it seemed like there was just this, you know, constant tension. But I mean, Jeff Smith. I mean, like he, when he, leave it to Kurt. When it ended at whatever team he was at, it was big. Like it was a big fireball that, you know, went out the door. So what do you remember about that time between Kurt and Roush Racing? Well, I mean, Kurt was, Kurt was definitely unhappy, right?

I think, you know, performance driven or whatever else. Kurt was unhappy, and rightfully so. We weren't, we didn't have the equipment that I think we needed. And, you know, then he had his run-in out in Phoenix with the DUI. And he didn't get a DUI, but they stopped him and there were some discussion about whether he'd been drinking. And I think he was a real ass-a-old of the cops. Sure. And, you know, do you know who I am?

And I think some of those things. and I think that honestly I think that Roush just took that opportunity and said, you know what? You know, yeah. All right. You're not going to drive. Is it right?

Also, and this is the last one I wanted to get your opinion on, is that, you know, you've been talking about there was this certain moment when all of a sudden you guys were just behind on on a lot of things and you weren't competing. Is that why everybody started seemingly to leave?

I mean, you had Jeff Burton. maybe there was some contract stuff, but you had Carl going to Gibbs, he had Matt leaving. Going to Gibbs. Going to Gibbs. By the way, now hearing kind of your backstory, it's how interesting is all that, right?

Yeah, right. Right. I mean, one might say that y'all are all having conversations about the same ride. Yeah. Or the same couple of rides. Anyways, that being said, that's why that was happening, right?

Was it just people were just unhappy with the competition? Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, it was clear that, that and and what's hardest ever in your career as a driver is you're winning races and dominating or or whatever and now you're not right you know damn good and well it's not you or you sure think it is right and if you you have to question yourself okay what am I doing wrong so you're like okay time out i got to watch more tape and do this and do that I got to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

For the most part, you're not doing anything wrong. You know, it's just you have, and it's always like this. Look at Stuart Haas two years ago. They were unbeatable. And then the baton gets passed to this organization. And then that, and then that. And it's always a battle. It's always a battle.

But what happened was we were dominant and then we slipped a little bit. And then we never made that. We never made that cycle again. Never. Not every once in a while. And we did get a win here and there, okay? Right place, right time. But we had star, what I'm going to say, star athlete drivers, an elite group of drivers.

And so they could win with a 10th place car fairly easily if you gave them a chance. Right? And so, you know, but we just, we just didn't quite ever make that. that cycle again like some of the other teams, you know, some of the other teams did. Hendrick down for a while. And then they pull it back together and get back up there, you know. And it's always a jockey.

Yeah, but isn't it also fair to say that Rouse never really, when elite drivers were leaving, it didn't seem like he was replacing elite with elite. I mean, you know, like today Kyle Bush announces he's going to RCR. Aside from Brad doing his ownership deal last year, Like, you know, it just, is it not fair to say that Jack Rouse never really went and paid for those elite drivers to come fill the Mark Martins, the Jeff Burtons, the Greg Biffles and all the people that were, Carl Edwards, Matt Kenseth. I mean, the list is endless. And, you know, it's no knock on Boucher, no knock on David Reagan. Not at all. On any of those guys, but they're, you know, elite level drivers. I think it's, I think it's hard to attract those guys if you can't provide them a winning car.

like what I was saying. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of great teams out there that, but they just don't, you know, if they're going to win races, it's not, it's going to be by, you know, restrict your played or they're going to get up there and win. I was so excited to see Petty win, you know, at Darlington. That was great to see. It was great to see.

And this new car has provided some new opportunities for some, some more teams in these alliances they've made. But, you know, you can't. hire those elite drivers if you don't have, you know, race winning equipment. Yeah. So it's a cart in front of the horse. You've got to get race winning equipment. How do I do that?

If you had race winning equipment, those drivers would still be there. So if those drivers leave, you've got to figure out how to get race winning equipment and then get some other ones back. So what do you up to these days? Just hanging out. You got it running out of gas on the side of the road. I own a rock quarry. I do.

In Virginia. I do. All right. Why do you own a rock quarry? That's kind of a unique story in itself. But I loved running equipment and building trails at my mountain property all the years and doing all that stuff. And I was building a big pond project on my property. I got about half done.

And this quarry I was getting the stone from for the shoreline went out of business, went belly up. and one of the guys that was helping me worked for that guy. And he said, man, you should just, I tried to find the stone somewhere else. And I couldn't match it. So I'm like, I got to start over or I can take this place over. So not a lot of money. And I traded him a little bit of rock. I got the mining permit for this place.

He got the rock. And I thought, you know, I got an excavator and I got this and that. I got some equipment. I'll go in there and have a little bit of fun. And it was a way more undertaking than what I expected. I'm sure. It sounds like it. So after, you know, a couple million dollars worth of equipment, I felt like, well, then I figured out I was about halfway there to being able to mine this stuff.

And I like challenges, you know, and I hired my brother to come and run it while I raced. And, you know, I'd sort of guide them and help them. How long have you owned this quarry? I've owned the quarry for 10 years. Okay. So it's still going. It's still going. Yep.

You like to fly. You had a helicopter. You still got it? No, I don't. I sold all my aviation stuff, but I love aviation. I thought you owned planes and stuff. I'm itching. I don't.

I own the hangar. I sold everything. I own the hangar at the Statesville Airport, which Victory Air leases. You lease it. Oh. You're an outdoorsman. Yeah. I didn't know that.

Yeah. Man, I love it. I don't hunt that much. Yeah. Fish. But I love to fish. fish. Okay. Where do you go fish? I love to fly fish. I love to saltwater fish. So I fish a lot in in the Bahamas mainly. How do you get down the Bahamas? What do you got down there? Anything?

So I've got a boat. You got a house in Florida and my boat's behind the house. Okay. And so I'll take that to Nassau. I usually fly to Nassau and then we leave there, do Exuma islands or go wherever. And then I take my 32 center console off, you know, from the big boat. And the one trip I did a few years ago, I never, we were there for seven days. I never once was on the boat while it was moving, the big boat. I was always on my small boat out fishing, snorkeling, on the beach, drinking beer, doing whatever. And the boat would move from spot to spot. You'd chase it with the fish boat.

Just chase it with the fishing boat, hook up. I mean, those are the days I love. I really love that. Sounds amazing. Tell me about the Lake Norman Humane Society. So Lake Nour and Humane, we started that organization years and years ago. It started out as friends of the animals. And I grew up with dogs.

You used to have this calendar. Every year Biffel had a calendar. He asked all the drivers to pose with their dog animals or their dogs and other animals. And so I knew about your position and support of all that for years. And now you're continuing that. Yeah, continuing that. So we merge with a group. and created Lake Norman Humane

and then we built a building not too far away from here on Highway 21 and what happens there? We adopt out a lot of animals we pull animals mostly from the shelter and you know it's Try to find them homes. Try and find them homes.

So they, in the state of North Carolina, we euthanize, I'll use the proper word, a lot of animals. And most of these dogs, you know, cats that go to the shelter that's death row and that they have about three to seven days that's it yeah so they got to find a

house fast you know so we we do our part and pull a lot of animals that that are adoptable from the shelter you know give them proper veterinarian care and get them adopted out we adopt probably you know 100 animals a month hundred dogs a month we so I went to a pound or I don't know what you call that. Shelter? Yeah. I went, well, I went to one in Charlotte, and there's this one room. They had a big room full of adoptable.

Okay. And then there's like a different room where they're, like they can't. I was looking for a cat. Okay. Long time ago. And there's this room in the back where I saw a cat and I was like, I want that cat, and they're like, well, we can't, it's not adoptable because we can't test it. We can't give it at shots.

We can't check it for this and another because we can't touch it. Okay. Rip our hand on it. It's a feral cat. then. Yeah, and so they were like, you know, not adoptable. This cat will not be leaving this building. And that was a real eye-opener.

Yeah. And so, anyhow, you guys try to go to these shelters and take the adoptable animals that are finding themselves at those shelters. Right. Y'all care for them and give them an opportunity, a longer runway, I guess, to be able to find a home. Yep. And we have a lot of fosters as well. So people...

Those are actual homes. homes. People will take the animal and, you know, and it's on our website and, you know, people are looking for animals and it works really well now because they can say, oh, I like Lucy, you know, but, but so Lucy is with this foster, so this foster will bring Lucy in and the people come and meet them and say, we love them, we're going to take them. How do you become a foster? So just sign up at the shelter. Yeah. Come by and, um, we love more, the more, the more fosters we have, it expands our organization without spending any money. Yeah.

So it gives us an opportunity to help more animals. And, you know, it's a great thing. And I love being part of the organization. What's the web address? I mean, people listening right now, if you've got them motivated to go, you know, adopt a pet, what do they need to do? Lake Normanhumane.com. Look us up, you know, social media, Facebook.

And that physical address is on Highway 21. The physical address is, I'm not good with that. No, no, but I, the, it's right near Hoke Lumber. Yeah, the new, right across the street from New Hoke Lumber here in Moorsville. Yeah. And so I pass by this thing every day going to the house and coming to Junior Motorsports. We were over there for the grand opening. Yeah.

It's amazing, great facility. And just wanted to really highlight that. Yeah, I mean, you're doing some awesome things. You know, when we are, when we are. in the throw, when we're doing the racing thing, right? We always line ourselves with some mission, right? Some charitable initiative. And I love seeing people like you that continue those things

and even get stronger or get more involved beyond your driving career because it really shows your true character and shows that you genuinely, you know, that really is something that's part of your DNA, man. It was a lot of fun. And it was a direction for me because a lot of guys within the circle had children's charities or other things. And this was sort of a gap that I was passionate about when I was in the sport. And of course, keep, you know, following after the sport. So it's a community supports us a lot.

You know, it just occurred to me. Did you not go to Biffle about your dog killer? Isn't that where you got killer? I, my, my dog killer was a litter, part of a litter. Is that right? Yeah, it was. I remember that now. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. So that was actually kind of fun because we shared, uh, it allowed me and you to kind of share, uh, bond a little bit. Yeah. Because, yeah, he would be like, hey man, how's killer doing? And then he would bring killer's brother and sister or, or parents by and they would kind, it was interesting to see them when they would get together because they rarely saw each other.

When they would get together, it was like there was a, there was a, there was a, there was a, They knew. There's a natural sort of connection they had. Killer sold a lot of merchandise, by the way. Kill was very popular back in the day. You know what his name was before Killer, though? No, what is it? It was Beetlebug.

No kidding. Yeah. I've never heard that. And I think that he didn't really have a name. But the foster that had him, you know, they, I don't know where he came up with that name. But anyway. I've had, I love my dogs, man. but he was a great dog.

He was a cool dog. Great dog. And you have Irish Settters. And Iversetter now in a poem. So my, little poem. My family or my parents, they had Irish Settors.

Yeah. And so I love Irish Settors. Beautiful dogs. And I see his dog all the time. And I'm like, but it just reminds me a home, you know? Yeah. I named him Killer because Dad had a dog

with the same coat. He had a, he had it. When I moved into Dad's House in 81, he had a dog named Killer that would bite the hell out of you. Yeah, he was literally a killer. Yeah.

But he had the same white chest, dark, dark coat and white chest. And I was like, when I saw my killer, I was like, that's you, buddy. That's right. Man, Greg, thanks for coming in today. This is a lot of fun. Great catching up with you. A lot of people were, I'm going to say, we say this, but we say it with truth to several guests that come on this show. You were highly requested.

Okay. I love that. And when we put this tweet out that, you know, or we put the information out that we're going to have you on, man. A lot of excited people about this. Good. People wonder and what you're up to, still care about what you got going on. And hope to see you behind the wheel again one day. Yeah, man, I hope so.

Somewhere you might just pop up. That's right. Just do your own little Northwoodsboro somewhere. Yeah. All right, man. Greg Biffle on the Dale Jr. download. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.