The Dale Jr. Download - DJD Classics w/ Rusty Wallace: The Intimidator's Most Respected Rival

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Perhaps no other driver in NASCAR history earned a similar off-track relationship with Dale Earnhardt as Rusty Wallace.  Unsurprisingly, it was Rusty's gritty racing style that garnered that admiration, and while Dale Sr. and Rusty stayed fierce racing rivals, they also spent many years vacationing together. In this episode of DJD Classics, which originally aired 3/25/2019, hear all about Rusty's rise to the top of the racing ranks, from his initial big break to capping off a Hall of Fame career. Rusty recounts his decision to retire early and pursue another passion of his - calling races on TV and MRN. And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMediaReal fans wear Dirty Mo. Hit the link and join the crew.👇https://shop.dirtymomedia.com/FanDuel: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of DirtyBone Media. Let's rewind a DJD Classic. Enjoy. All right, so we've got our guest here, Rusty Wallace. How you doing, Rusty? Everything's good. First time I've been over here. I like your room.

It's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. So what are you doing these days? Well, car dealership stuff. A lot of car dealership stuff. I remember my boss man, Mr. Penske, told me, said, hey, man, you're going to quit driving one of these days. You better have you act together ready to go.

I said, I hear you. And so, you know, 28 years ago, man, it's been a long time, a long time. My first deal was a Pontiac dealership in Tennessee. And a guy calls me up and said, hey, man, why don't you come over for an autograph session? So I went there and we had like 1,500 people online. And then I went to Bristol and I won the race. And he calls me up and he said, hey, would you come again? I said, yeah.

He said, okay, I'll show up. And he says, hey, man, you know that buddy you're Dale Earnhardt. He said, would you bring him to? And I said, all right, let me look. And so I called him up. And I said, hey, you want to go to the Chevrolet dealership or does Pontiac dealership with me? I think I'm going to buy it or be a partner in it. He says, okay.

He said, if you go to yours, if I go to yours, you got to come to mine. I said, all right. So he flew up there and me and Dale back there 28 years ago doing autograph sessions of my Pontiac dealership. So that's where it started. But then we built more stores. Now we've got eight of them up there. Really? Yeah, I got eight stores.

We sell about 16,000 cars a year up there. And the car business has been basically my number one deal. I love doing it. I had no idea that you were in the car business that much. I know you had a store at one time, but that's awesome. Yeah, people get on me all the time. So what are you doing? What are you doing?

I said, man, I've been working the car stuff for a long time. We've got a beautiful Honda dealership, a beautiful Toyota, a brand new Nissan, a brand new Chevrolet, a brand new Ford, three Kiyahs and a Nissan. Man. How spread out are these? Where are they? They're all in Knoxville, Tennessee area. They're all in Knoxville. All in Knoxville area.

Yeah, and I just love Knoxville. We have a great time up there. Beautiful airport, great area. A ton of race fans up there. And it all started with all that winter and I did in Bristol. And that's how I ended up in Tennessee. And so that's basically what I do now. But a lot of people hear me on the radio.

I love working with the guys at Motor Racing Network. It keeps me involved in the sport. I do 21 races. I'm at only the Cup races and only the ISC. racetracks. So that's what I do. Yeah. Man, how much do you enjoy doing, you know, I just got into broadcasting last year and I just wanted something to keep me at the racetrack because I wanted to keep going. Yeah. I didn't want to stop going to the racetrack because I love being there. But I needed a reason to be there. And so what was your reason for getting into

radio and is it to just be in the sport and be involved and be around it? Well, the reason was I did television for nine years with ESPN and really enjoyed it. And when it came time for the contract, yeah, everybody was bidding. NBC won the bid, obviously. They had all their own guys. And so then my career with television at that point was over. But then I got a phone call from the guys at NASCAR, and I talked to them back and forth, and radio was a fun thing.

And so I do a lot of stuff with ISC. And if people don't know what that means, that's the people that mostly own all the racetracks in NASCAR. So I'll go up to Chicago and do their advance work, or I'll go to Watkins Glen do their advance work. And like this Sunday, I'm the Grand Marshal for the O'Reilly Auto Parts 500 in Texas. And that's an MRN duty because they're one of our big sponsors. So you get an invitation to go beat a Grand Marshal.

And I say, hey, man, you're going to have good dinner on Saturday night? Hey, man, you're going to give me a nice shirt? Yeah, okay, I'll do it, you know. Feed me and clothe me and I'm there, right? Is that what Rusty Wallace? That's what moves Rusty Wallace. Well, yeah. But did they answer your question?

I'm between, you know, the car dealerships are number one. Number two is what got me in the car dealership is racing. And I don't want to be out of NASCAR. Right. So I love the MRAN stuff because it's 21 races. The guys are fantastic. They're super knowledgeable. And I love working with them.

I really do it. It keeps me at the track. But then not too much at the track. Yeah. Because, you know, I like to enjoy myself also. Sure. I've only had a couple opportunities to do radio. And I found out, I found it to be more challenging the TV.

with radio and you can add to this and correct what I got wrong but with radio you have to sort of paint the picture there's no visual for people that are listening

and it seems like it's a more difficult job or a tougher job to really explain to people what you're seeing and how you know trying to explain the radio in TV

we're just looking at a screen the same thing and everybody else is at home we just go see that on the screen? Yeah that's pretty cool on the screen. But with radio and also the baton passing, you know, as you're going around the racetrack, as cars are going around the racetrack and they're literally passing it from guy to guy

around the racetrack for an entire run, I found that to really be, I was, it was not awkward, but it was just challenging. Whereas TV, you have so many more tools, I guess, and it's just a visual aspect. of it seems to be a lot simpler. It's totally two different animals. It really is, in my opinion. After being in television for nine years and now doing radio for the last, heck, I've done radio now for the last four years in a row.

So, yeah, when you're doing television, you're looking at what the viewer sees. You don't have to be calling the race because they're already seeing it. And you're basically giving commentary about what you think, you know, when they're going to pit and what you would do and stuff like that. Now, I still do that in radio. because we've got the play-by-play guys. Jeff Striegel and Alex Hayden right now are play-belt play guys. I'm the race analyst.

And so, and you talk about passing the baton around the racetrack. That was my biggest concern, too. How do you do that, you know? Because MRN is so exciting and so jacked up. And everybody's like, it tells me all the time. I love listen to those voices and how they really paint that picture, you know. And so when I first got put into booth, I said, how you do it? I said, okay.

Dave Moody generally is up in turn. one. You got Mike Bagley over in turn three in Daytona, Kyle Ricky off at turn four. And as those cars are coming around and Kyle's done talking off at turn four, it's free game. If you want to pick up right there, pick up. So what I do, I use hand signals. So the other two guys are getting ready to pick up. And if I got something, I'll raise my finger and I go, Rusty's got it. So off a turn four, you all, every time you hear my voice, it's always off a turn four, most all the time, because I pick up after our last corner guys done. And so it sounds real complicating, but it's not.

It's pretty seamless, you know, when you know when you know when to talk and not to talk. But I like the radio stuff because MRN's got so much heritage. They've been around for so long. You got guys like, you know, Winston Kelly who runs the Hall of Fame down there. You've got voices that you hear all the time like Dave Moody during the afternoon on XM's 90 or Seris 90. but it gives me something to do, keeps me at the track and lets me talk about something I feel like I know about. And so I'm kind of like you and that. You don't want to leave the track, but when you're at the track, you want to have a purpose.

And so if you didn't have your, say, well, you don't have your, you got your exfanny cars. They're there on Saturday, but you're not there on Sunday. But now you're there on Sunday because of television. And that keeps you tied to the sport. And that's kind of the one of the things I wanted to do, too. You talked about Dad and you having a friendship. we wanted to get into that at some point, so I guess we could dive right in.

When I was a kid, obviously I was going to the racetrack and watching you guys for a long time. I remember, you know, I was at Bristol, you won your first race, and was around throughout the entire process all the way up until you went in a championship and then racing against you myself. And it seemed like your relationship with dad

was just always kind of hot and cold. Like you guys, you guys, could bump into each other and be upset for a while and then maybe friends again. Could you sort of help me understand, I guess, what that process was like with him and how it could go from good to bad and back to good? Well, first of all, I'll tell you, my relationship with your dad was really, really good. And we were exceptional friends off the track. You've noticed the stories probably.

We spent a lot of time into Bahamas. We spent a lot of time on boats. We spent a lot of time vacationing. I took my oldest son, Greg, out to the old farm, and your dad grabbed a hold of his arm, set him down, taught him how to shoot a gun, you know, and I was over at your dad shop one night when it was over in Canapolis, and we're sitting there, and he's building a brand new bush car back then, it was called. And he's building a brand new for Daytona, and it was beautiful. And he was, and he was really bragging about it.

And the whole time he's doing that, he's sitting there drinking some Miller lights. And yeah, back then he did drink Miller Light. We're going to be friends, but here's one condition. You're going to have to drink Miller Light. He did drink Miller Lake back then. And so we're sitting there and he's telling me a band out of the clear blue, he asked me to come over for some reason. I don't know what it was. And out of clear blue, he says, hey, man, I want to show you this new bow and arrow I have.

I said, okay. I'm like, dude, I don't know about this stuff. So he takes me outside this old building and you know what it looked like. And he takes this thing and he pulls this arrow back and he shoots it. And it goes right through the building. and all of a sudden I see his eyes get real big and he's like, oh, crap, you know. And he says, come on. He runs inside the building.

And that damn arrow went through the side of the building and right through his brand new oil cooler for the Daytona, Daytona Bush car. And he blew his oil cooler out with a bow and arrow. And he's like, ah, yeah, yeah. And I tell that story now and then because it's kind of exciting because that's an off-track picture of what your pop would do, you know. But we were really good friends. We spent a lot of time, like I said, in those Bahamas. I'd be down there and I'd come back to the boat. You know, I'd rent and I'd go down and stay in the bedroom down there.

And it'd be a case of Budwise. He's always screwing with me and always doing stuff like that. And then one day, I was winning all them races of Bristol and doing real well. One of our next races to come up was Bristol. So we sit down, we're drinking beer and one night in the Bahamas. And he goes, he said, hey, man, I need you that. I haven't been running too good at Bristol. Give me that damn setup you use.

I said, I'm a kid, you know, set up, you know, you're crazy. Is he? Come on, come on. And I said, and I thought to myself, self, you know, every time I try to help somebody, I give them the setup, but they only use like 70% of it, so you can give it to them, and it's not going to do them any good. Yeah. Because it's going to get filtered out by some crew guys or some engineers or whatever because they were going to say, oh, no, that's stupid, you know.

I said, all right. So I got a piece of paper. I wrote it and I gave it to them. And I, to this day, standing this desk in this desk right here, I gave him exactly what I'm run. We went to Brussels next week, and I won to race. And I think he finished third or fourth or something like that. And I said, you use that whole setup?

He goes, no. I don't know what to tell you, man, you know. But I would, I was, I was honest with him. But he, he did a lot of stuff for me, too. You know, when they started that, the merchandise business, he got me involved in that. And it made some good money. And he was a good guy when it comes to that. But we spent a lot of time off the track.

But on the track, we had to race each other. And sometimes it got controversial. And sometimes it was like accidental conversation. I'll give you an example. We're at Michigan. Now, I'm going back up a little bit. Sure. I'm at Richmond. And Gordon took me out at Bristol,

knocked me up to racetrack. And last lap, he wins off in a second. I said, okay, to bump and run. And I said, I'm not letting him get away with that. And so, well, I've ready to three races. I go to Richmond, and there's Richmond, and I find myself a couple laps to go. He's alongside of me. I said, it's your turn, big guy, and I stuck him right in the fence.

I tore his whole front end clear off his car. he was like, I said, we're even now, okay? And Navas said, he said, yeah, but I didn't wreck your car. I said, well, yours did. And so then the next week, we go to Michigan. And I practice in Michigan. And your dad and myself found ourselves side by side and going down the front straightaway. I'm the inside car.

I hauled off on your turn one, and I got loose. And I got loose, and I slid up into him in practice. And I put him right in the wall. Holy smokes. I've never seen him that mad in my entire life. He come flying out of a car. And the first thing got ringing out of a car. and mouth. I'm not going to take that crap like you did to Gordon at Richmond. That's the first

thing he said. He didn't say anything about, you know, me and him reckon, I'm not taking that crap that you did to Gordon. What? Yeah. And then the very next time, or next morning, I'm sitting there, I'm dead asleep by motor home and all of a sudden, bang, bang, bang, I hear something beating on the door. I open the door. It's your dad standing there and goes, hey, man, just blow that crap off from yesterday. I'm over this. I'm sorry, dude. I'm sorry, dude. I'm and no problem, okay, that was it. But he was like that. But we would, and a lot of fans like,

oh, man, those guys are in a big rivalry. It's not. Wow. But I would go to those short tracks and win a ton of short tracks, and he would go to Daytona and kick our butt, and he'd go to Charlotte and kick our butt, and he'd go to Michigan. And then I'd go to the road courses,

and I'd win. And I'd go to, we had these different stomping grounds that we wanted. Sure. And then we'd do crazy stuff like Wilkesboro. At Wilkesboro one time, Mr. France, Jr., got a hold of us and we're talking about t-shirts back in the day. And we went on and on and on and on about t-shirts and merchandise and stuff. We were having a good time of this stuff back then. It was really all these different pain schemes and all these things was exciting. So we get

in a race and I come off a turn two and he bangs me in the back end. And I'm like, what? And the world's going on here, you know? So we're around like three more laps and all of a sudden he gets a good bite off a turn two and bam, hits me to back in again. And so, man, I got hot. And I said, I've never done this to a driver, but I did it to your dad. And I come off a turn two, and he hits me in the back, and I slammed the brakes on. I just locked him down. And he, that hit me in the back so damn hard, it tore the grill out of his car, tore a whole friend off his damn car.

I tore my bumper all off. And I went ahead and finished second race, and he had the front end tore off. And then old man, France comes down and he goes, what the hell you doing out there, man? I said, just selling T-shirts, boss. And he laughed and went off, and we got over. But we even do stuff like that, but I really respected him. He taught me a lot. He made me want to be like him.

At times, he made me want to dress like him. Made me want to sit in a car all slouched over in a car. You know, when he would take his helmet off and come in after a plug check or something. Ever make you want to shoot a bow and arrow right through your car? No? No, no, I didn't do that. I left that up to him, though. I left to because he was really – but that was incredible watching it that night,

watching him shoot that dog on oil cool, right? of his brand new car, you know. When did you meet him? Like, where does it start with you and Dale Earnhardt? 1980, Atlanta. I went to Atlanta and I tested with Penske. I just ran all these ASA races and I was doing good into short track stuff. And Penske said, I want to give this kid a try, you know.

They put this car together with a guy named Tex Powell and myself and Don Miller. We went down to Atlanta. We tested, test, test. I drove Iraq cars, me and Rick Mears, and we tested the crap out of Iraq cars. Kind of get my feet underneath you, get my sea leg. you know. So then we put me in that 1980 caprice and I ran my butt off all day long and at 500 and I finished second and Dale won the race. I'm looking at that car behind your head. It's a blue and yellow number two and that's the car that he won with and I finished second behind him in.

And that's where he first meant. And he went to me and said, holy smokes, dude, where do you come from? You know, and I said, I've been to Midwest man. I said, where you come from? And then I met him down in Pensacola at Snowball Derby one time. He was running a bush car down there. He was an old Nova with the fender well is all cut out and the tire sticking out about a foot front and rear, you know? And I said, oh, man, I never seen a guy drive a car that hard in my life. And he was just wheeling that thing. And I had like my ASA car, and got a swoopy looking car. And he had this old boxy car. And he was whipping everybody's belt with that thing. But I met him in Pensacole. I met him after we finished first and second. And then the relationship, the conversation started

it from there. And then when I went over and started driving for the Blue Max guys, those cars were really fast. The late Barry Dotson and Jimmy Maycar and Todd Parrott and all those guys really had those cars. About what year is this? That was 80. That was 86. 86, 87, 88, 89. And my last year with the team was 1990. And in 90, we wanted to Coke 600 and we won Sears Point. And then it was over then. So you and Dale were friends. You met in 80, but when did you guys become like Baham? my friends. I'd say probably the Bahama stuff, that was probably 90, 93. 93, I won 10 races that year. And that's when your dad and I, I don't know if you're going to this one of your questions or not, but that's when we get together at Teledag and I go,

you know, end over in there, you know. He flipped you. I mean, you, you, you rolled. You rolled. I rolled, yeah, but I know exactly what happened. I mean, it was a big run were come to start, finished line. I saw him coming. I went down to block and when I did and get down there quick enough, and I got my left rear corner into his right front fender, and I went, you know, pinned over in. And then he calls me in a hospital, and he says, hey, man, I didn't mean to try to kill you. I said, I know, no problem. Then the next week, I show up at Sears Point, and the big faker, hey, Rusty Wallace to the big red truck or to the red truck, or Rusty Wallace to the truck. I said, all right. I said, what I do wrong now? I didn't know I did anything wrong. And I go up,

and Dale's in there with Bill Jr. And he goes, hey, we always go to the behind. We want you to go with us. And I went, okay. Wow. I said, that sucker's trying to pay me back for killing me, you know. But we did that for 18 straight years. Really? Yeah, yeah, it's cool.

Yeah. So, you know, the water bottle incident is one thing that everybody always remembers. And that was after, I guess, at Bristol, the dad got into you and turned you around and tore your car up. So listening to you talk, it sounds like that some of that stuff, were y'all selling T-shirts? Like, was that really what y'all were doing? You all would go to the racetrack and have those kind of things going on.

No. No. Like, so how did? That's just a byproduct of it. And the conversation is always arose. We had fun with it actually talking about it. That's what I mean, yeah. We had fun with talking about, yeah, man, we're going to go sell some t-shirts.

That was a slogan, you know. Then we get out to erase our brains out, you know, and the fans were really into it. And it was exciting. But, no, man, we weren't just out there selling T-shirts. No, I hope you're not thinking that type of stuff. But you got to remember, you're pop. was the leader of that. He was the one that started that whole business and helped a lot of people. You know, myself, Dale Jared, Terry Labony, and Jeff Gordon, and he was the leader of that, him and Fred Wagonhalls.

And so, yeah, yeah, a lot of conversation there. But I will tell you, you get on that doggone track, just like you know, these guys, if you want to find friends, buddy, you better find your neighbor. because if you think you're going to have a pile of friends, you know, that you've got to race against, they might be friends, you think. But when you get on a racetrack, they're trying to steal your money, too, man. And they're trying to whip your butt. And it gets pretty tough. At least for me, it was. What was the water bottle the high point of any incident between you and Dale?

Would you say that that was as rough as it got? Can I tell you how that happened? True story? I love to hear it. All right. I'm going to tell you how that happened, true. story. And we're on pit road. Gordon has been kicking our ass. He's kicking your dad's ass. He's kicking my ass. And your dad was sick of it. And I was sick of it. And that particular

day at Bristol, I qualified really well, I think, like third. And your dad qualified. I think it was fifth. And Gordon was on the outside of us, I think on the start of the race. And he come, like your dad come up to me. So let's do this. And I said, let's say, let's just get this sucker out of way and check out and get gone because that was one of my good tracks and that was your own man's good track. Not so much for Gordon back then, but he said, let's just, let's just punt this kid and get gone. He said, I'm sick of him. I said, all right. And punting him, men, just kind of rough him up a little bit and kind of hammer, because we could do that back then. You root him out. Yeah, I root him out a little bit and get going. So I come on,

we get about 10 laps in a race, and I come off a turn or two, and I get loose, and he's right on my tail. your dad is, you know. We're like bumper to bumper, man, we were rolling. We're not getting it done. You know, we're honking through that field, you know, and getting next lap we're going to lead the race, you know. I come off a turn four and I get loose. He hits me an ass.

It wasn't his fault. It was probably my fault for getting loose, you know, because we were so tight. And I go spin it around and I hit the wall, and then I got limp, limp that damn thing around the whole race, you know. I'm frustrated and I get over there. And my son, Greg walks up to me. me, but just a regular bottle of water. And I was hot and sweat, and he gives me a bottle of water.

I'm drinking the water. And I started walking down. And you're a man, he was down there because him and Terry Labani just got into it coming off of turn four. I think Labani won the race. Dale's sitting down there, and he's got a whole pile of people around him. And I'm mad. And I start walking down.

I was, what I was thinking was, what I was thinking? We had a deal, dude. What are you doing? What the hell are you doing? We had a deal. You're the one to start of this whole thing, you know? You're sick of Jeff Gordon. You had it with him.

Let's dump his ass and get going, you know? And so I started walking down there. Greg goes, what are you doing, Dad? What are you doing? I'm going down there talking. Oh, come on, Dad, don't do that, don't do that. I keep on walking down there, and I see him, and he's about 10 foot away from me. I say, hey, no response.

I said, hey, no response. I took that bottle, I went, I slung that bottle to get his response. And I met him hit him like in the shoulder, but I hit him right in the center of forehead. I hit him right in the forehead, and it was game on. He just blew through that crowd and came over and said, what's wrong? I said, I said, what the hell's all right about, man? You've knocked me in the back and I got to limp around, told him or crawl to hell.

I said, I'll tell you what, I won't forget it. I won't forget what you did to me a Teledag either. And he goes, you know what? I won't forget it either. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Then the next morning, here comes the phone call and the talk. Hey, man, I forget about that. I'm sorry about all that.

Really? Oh, yeah. And that's how I went, you know. It's just that type of relationship. But at that particular point, man, you know, he had it. He could not take that Gordon stuff, that young. kid coming and kicking our asses. And he was. Jeff was just putting it on us, boy. And we were sick of it. You just you actually cleaned up that conversation because we were

watching that video just the other day. That conversation had a lot more color in it. You did a nice job cleaning it up a little bit. Well, I do. Yeah, because you guys, so you can tell that, right? Well, yeah, but like, you know, now, there were no punches thrown. Now, but I want to tell you something. J.R. Rhodes was in between you guys. J.R. Rhodes being Dale, uh, Dale, Dale's guy. And J.R. tells a really good story from his vantage point where he said afterwards, Dale got on to him a little bit. And he said, J.R. Always leave me a hand. Because I guess J.R. was holding him back and basically wrapping him up. Although Dale Earnhardt, like, there was a couple times where he kind of like tap, you know, does something on your face. I don't know. Like, I don't even know if there was a big crowd. It was chaos.

I'm going to go back and check that when I haven't seen. Yeah. Like he kind of goes up like a little love tap, not a slap, not a hit, nothing. Yeah, kind of like that. Maybe like friends would do. But Dale Earnhardt said to JR after it was over, always leave me a hand. Just in case. Just in case. You never know that Rusty way.

Rusty may just swing one one time. So we had Jeff Gordon on the show a couple shows ago, and he said that he felt like that his early success that you had a problem with it. And you just, you know, I think you and you just said you and dad both had a problem with his early. I had a big damn problem with it. Oh, really? Yeah, man, I was jealous. Really?

Yeah, because it was me and it. And Dale. There's me and Dale winning all them races. It was, we were just getting it done. And all of a sudden here this young kid comes in and whole different style than us. I'll tell you that now. You know, Dale's solid black clothes everywhere he went. I'm this kid out of the Midwest.

Got a big mouth going on, you know, and here comes Gordon. And he wasn't making it look easy. And I'm like, man, I'm not liking this, you know. You know, you just you can tell me. I was supposed to be more humble, but I would, man. I wasn't liking it a bit, you know, and that's what it was all about. I think one of the toughest things that I remember you going through and looking back at your comments during that time was the win at the All-Star Race.

Obviously, winning the race was great, but I think the fan reaction that happened from that was spinning Darrell or Darrell spinning himself across the front of your car, however you want to categorize it. That's how Bobby Allison says, right? Yeah, right. He backed into me. Yeah. I remember those, I remember comments from you shortly after that and how, how, I guess, upset or hurt you were by the fan reaction because it was pretty harsh.

What would you describe as probably the low point in your career? Was that it or was there another time that I'm not thinking about? No, I think you're dead on on that one. Probably the low point my career was then because, I mean, a lot of rough driving, a lot of exciting stuff going on. And I'm in that race and it's no points. It's all for the money. And I win the first segment. Second segment, they come in and somehow,

those cars had buy supply tires back then. And I'll never forget the number. We had 88.5 inch right front tire. We had an 88 inch right rear tire. And so we accidentally got the right rear tire put on the right front. And the car is pretty loose, you know, in that second segment, Darrell beats me. But mentally, I know I got the best car. I know I got the best car.

Barry Dotson comes across the radio says, hey, man, we made a mistake. We got the right side tire swapped. He said, just drive it. So, all right. I'm sorry. This was after the second segment, after I came in. They took him off and saw it then. I went, oh, man.

He said, we're just sorry about that, blah, blah, blah. Glad you drove it like that. So then I'm like all jacked up. I said, no, I got this baby right again. I got another shot at winning this thing. So in the third segment, Darrell takes off, and I catch him. And I sail it down in a turn three and it's sticking pretty good. Then I get in the middle of the corner and I slide up and I get in his left for a quarter panel and takes a spin.

Oh, my God, that's just dramatic, dramatic stuff that happens here all the time, you know. But man, I'm telling you what, then they took me, put me in a victory lane and everybody's going crazy and crazy mad at me. I'm like, do you what in the hell do to get everybody this mad? I mean, they're really mad. And the pit crews are fighting. I mean, they're beating the crap on each other on pit road and all hell's breaking loose. I said, okay, they said, now it's time for you to go up to the, what do you call that thing up there at Charlotte Miller Speedway? The Speedway Club.

Yeah, the Speedway Club. Time for you to go up to Speedway Club was they always took all the winners up there after the race. So I got ready to go up there and I said, man, you can't take you a golf car to see dangerous. So I go, there's an ambulance waiting for me behind a doggone victory lane. They put me in the ambulance and drive me around, take me up there. And they walk up into the Speedway Club in Humpy Wheeler says, and don't want. winner of the All-Star Rusty Wallace. Let's give him a hand.

And everybody went boo. Really? Everybody in the whole place went. Oh, my God. Boo. And I'm like, okay. They put me back in the ambulance, took me back downstairs and drove me to my house over in Charlotte in that damn ambulance.

Wow. I go in there in my house. I go to sleep in this old recliner for a while. Then I went upstairs and went to bed. And the two police officers over there, they stayed. in my house that night. And my daughter, Katie, comes running downstairs. So, dad, there's two police officers down.

What's going on? I'm going, it's a long story. I'll tell you later. You know, so I wake up next morning and tell them all what happened. But it was dramatic as hell. And it went on for a long time. Every race, boo, every race, boo. And finally it stopped, you know.

But it was like, I still don't know to this point what caused that to be so dramatic. I agree. I found that really surprising, too, because it actually, like you spun out of fan favorite. I mean, that's right. It's DW. DW was kind of,

you know, I mean, he had his fans at the same time, but, you know, he was often booed as well because he won so many races. But, um,

and, and two years prior to that, we'd basically seem one of the wildest, roughest shows in the 1987, Winston, All-Star race with Dad and Bill Elliott and Jeff Bidine. And I,

like you, was really surprised by the reaction because that was sort of the norm for racing back then. You saw it almost every other week guys getting, in each other, moving each other out of the way. But I remember you being pretty beat down or disheartened about the reaction to the fans.

I think, though, over time, you sort of earned back that trust and fan base. Well, I tell you, one, I noticed it changed in a little bit. And Alan Quicky, when Alan got killed in the plane wreck in 1993, I think everybody knew him and I were really good friends. and go to the track that night. Alan gets killed in the plane crash and then I win the race. And I do the reverse Polish victory lap like he did all the time of just trying to honor him, you know. And I don't know. I noticed after that people got nicer.

They got a little nicer and then it got better, you know. And Darrell and I have always been good friends. We've, you know, we still are good friends. And believe it or not, people won't believe this, but Jeff Gordon and I are really good friends. We got back from out there into sand dunes It was about two months ago Me and him and Greg Biffle and Ray Abraham And all of us out there

A guy named Ron Peretz's place Having fun So we get along real good But back when we were racing, man It was, it was totally strong Those relationships We've been raced a hell out of each other On the track

And if it was possible to get along During the week Yeah, the other thing It stands out from that conversation And that story you're told Was when you won the Winston You went home and took a nap Like y'all didn't go raise hell

or like Barry, you were, I was so, you named some of the biggest hell raisers on your team, Barry Dodson and May car and those guys. Notorious. Yeah. I needed to learn better from you when it come to that. I really did because I know you're good at that.

And believe it or not, I'm damn good at it too, but I have, uh, I know. But that particular night, I didn't exercise it for some reason. I think it was because I was locked in that ambulance all the time. They would let me out. I wanted to raise hell and have a hell. hell of a time at that Speedway Club when they took me up there. That was going to be the start. That was going to be game on. It was going to carry on. But boy, when everybody in there booed me,

I went, dude, sort of a buzzkill. I can understand four or five of them, but not one like every one of them. This is interesting. I mean, like, all those years watching you and Earnhardt and all these guys, I mean, like, I would have never guessed that, you know, what the fans thought about you affected you to the point. But you just said that that was a low point for you. So, like, you do want to be liked. You did that. Well, everybody wants to be like. You don't want to get booed. You know, I did, you know, you can win all the like Kyle Busch. He can win, win, win, win. I don't care if he wins thousand races. But, man, I don't want to go across there and go everybody go boo all the time. So it did affect you. Hell yeah. When you said a low point, what do you mean? Like, what did it do to do you, just emotionally? It just, it just, it makes you go up there and want to put your finger in your ears when you get your name announced. And it didn't make me want to get mean and mad at everybody. And I'll show you and just be a jerk, you know. It didn't make me want to do that if it's just like, man, I don't want to be like that. I want people to like what I do, you know.

Did it ever affect the way you race? I want people. I want people to cheer me and boo me like they do Dale Earnhardt Senior. That's what I want. I don't want to be primary boo, boo, boo, boo. Not boo. I was kidding. Boo.

I don't want that low boo, man. I want that high boo. You don't want ambulance rides anymore. No, dude. I don't think anybody wants that crap, you know? I got you. I got you. So you talked earlier about where you were winning races.

You mentioned the road courses. How you don't have a road course background. Like you didn't grow up racing road courses. How did you get to be so damn good? I went to Bob Bondurant out in Sonoma, California. And I ran and I ran and I ran. And I'll never forget the last day I was about to graduate from my first road racing school with Bob Bondurant. And I'm out there running.

He had Paul Newman out there. And he's teaching Paul Newman too. And so I'm driving a Mustang, I think it was. And they were in with like an old LTT, LTD Ford or something with some big fat tires and stuff on it. And they're out there running around. And so I had like two laps to go in my course. And then I'm done, you know. All of a sudden I see this whole car come behind me.

I'm thinking, oh, it's Bob Bondrette, you know. And the guy pulls up in his LTT and just pounds me in ass, you know, in my Mustang, you know. And I pull in and I get out of a car and I look back in it's Paul Newman. Hey, man, he caught me just beating on me. He's a hell of a road course. That Newman was really good, you know. But then, so I went to Bondarat. But then the biggest thing it really helped me is then to Barry Dotson and the guys and Jimmy Maycar and Harold Elliott and all those cats, they built me a full-blown road course car.

They really put a lot of focus in on primarily right-hand turn cars. Because back then, people were taking a short track cars and putting the gas tank in the other side. That's all they did, you know. And they treated a road course racing as a nuisance. It was like, oh, man, let's just get through this thing. But Barry wasn't like that. He's going to build a hot rod car. And then it's, now we're going to go test.

We load that old truck and go all the way to California. And we tested and tested and tested. Went through every road course ratio in those old Jericho transmissions back then, did all that stuff. And when I showed up, I won. Yeah. And before they shut Riverside, California down, I won the last two races. I got a T-shirt, starts at the very top with Pernelly Jones, Mario Andredi and all these names, the very, very bottom. It says, Rusty Wallace, Rusty Wallace.

Then they mowed that sucker down and turned it into a mall or something, you know. So that was a big deal. But then it just kind of got the rhythm, you know. And I think that racing on buy, supply tires and a road course taught me a lot, too. I call it body English. I could learn how to throw the car. I would throw the car and throw it back and forth and throw it back and forth. And then when the radial tire came out, I had to calm that down a little bit.

But it still got that aggressiveness that I think that you need in road course racing. And I just love that style of racing. You went to Bob Bondarantz. Me and Steve Park went to Bob Bondarantz in 1999. I ended up winning Watkins Glen over Ron Fellows, and Park won his second cup race, I think, at, or his first cup race, I think, at Watkins. At Watkins Glen. So, I mean, at Bob Bonnerant School, if you go there, that was a really big deal back then.

I'm sure it still is today, but a lot of guys would go out there, and you could literally learn how to become a road course racer. He taught you a lot. He really did, you know. And the only thing I failed, I don't know if he did this to you or not, did he put you on that doggone machine where they jacked her car off the ground a little bit? No. So it was like a slick track thing, you know.

There's an official name for it. I forgot what it was. But anyway, they take your car and put cast your wheels on the outsides of it. They lift it and take all the weight off it. And when the car gets sideways, where you're supposed to control it, dude, I spun that thing and spun. I could not master that at all. I just gave up on that, you know?

That would be impossible. Close to impossible, it seems like. What made you so good? All right, so you were winning at road courses often and early. You won at Watkins Glen in like your third start, right? I mean, it was pretty quick. So what made you so good at Bristol, though? I think what got me in Bristol that I love short track racing.

That's like I cut my teeth in the short track stuff. Winchester, Indiana, Salem, Indiana, big high bank racetracks, you know, and all the stuff in the Midwest. And you got to remember when I came out of short track race and Alan Quicki came out of it and Davey Allison came out of it. And even yourself, I guarantee you what I'm about to say you're going to agree with. All you went to bed with every night is thinking about your car. You're thinking about your old shock and your spring and your tires and it's all you're thinking about. You're not having a conversation about something else because if I had a conversation about something else, it's going to hurt my racing, man.

I had to be 100% into it. So when I went to Bristol, you know, all I was thinking is, you know, how am I going to get these four, tires to stick to the ground. I got to get my sway bars and my shocks on my springs. That's all I did. And then I went to a short track. And I won on a short track. Duh. Kind of makes sense that my first win would have come on a short track. Not at Daytona. Yeah. I don't know how to draft, you know. But doesn't everybody start on a short track? Yeah. I mean, like, you weren't, you weren't original in that regard. Everybody starts on short track. Yeah, but you know what?

Not everybody is passionate about wanting they're getting mechanically about their car. There's a lot of people that aren't super passionate about one to understand every nut and bolt on their car. And I was. And Alan Quicki was. And Dave, he was taught by his father, Bobby. And you, I tell young kids nowadays, when they come to, hey, man, I want to be a race car driver. What do I need to do? I said, well, you need to get in that shop. And if you get a chance to get in a car somehow, you better understand everything about it. Because if you don't, you might go out there and win, but you're not going to win on a consistent basis. You're not going to stay winning. And you get yourself in a ditch.

Most of these guys got to turn to somebody else to have them pull them out of the ditch. You got to have some ideals. And back then, we didn't have no computers. You got to remember that. There's no simulation, no computers and nothing. You had to figure it out. I'd come off the racetrack. And the first thing that happened, a cruise chief was stick his head to it when I'll say,

what's it doing it? What do you want to do? That's how the conversation went. What's it doing? What do you want to do? I said, take that $1,700 out of the right front, put an 18 in it. Take that $3.50 out of the right rear. Put a three and a quarter in it.

Give me two rounds a bite. Drop the track. part half inch. Okay, hurry and get that done. Go back out. And that's what we did. And we kept going out, going out, going out. And I've seen some drivers get so frustrated. They go, man, I don't know what to do. And that's it, you know, but I wouldn't like that. And so when I got no short track cars, I was always into that chassis stuff. And I think it helped. Yeah, one of the things that people would say about Rusty Wallace was that he would get, during the race or during practice, Rescue, Rusty would call for the changes that he wanted in the car.

Whereas, you know, even more so today, guys come in the garage, parked their car, the team, you know, gets the information decides what to do, what's the next change. They might already have a list made that they're going to go through. But Rusty, and not a lot of guys were like that back when you were driving in the 80s and 90s, but Rusty knew every spring, every shock. And so when he was out on the car, out on the track driving the car, he was thinking about what it needs. and he was telling the team often, more often than not, what part to change, what change needed to happen.

And, yeah, I think you were definitely one of those guys that knew every nut and bull about their race car. Now, if I try that nowadays, I'd probably get thrown out of the garage, you know, because team members now, they're so smart, and they're so good at what to do, and the whole game has changed. And I talked to a lot of current drivers, and they say, man, if you get your head in there and you tell them to do this, do this, It doesn't fly too good.

They need to do that. They don't need you messing it all up because you can't do the same stuff nowadays like I did back then. But I almost want you to try. I mean, just one weekend. That was something I wanted to talk to you about. I believe you said a few times that you felt like maybe you might have retired too soon. Like you had a few good years left. Yeah, I, you know, I think that started because,

Did you ever have anybody come up to you and say, hey, man, how much longer are you going to drive? All the time. You did? Okay. Yeah, that started with me. And one guy that's a great friend of mine that got under my skin, it was at Indy for the Brickyard 400 with Jerry Punch. And I like Jerry a lot. Great friend of mine.

And he walks up to me, ran him and said, hey, Rusty, he's interviewing me. We're talking. And one of the last questions was, how much longer you think you're going to stay doing this? And I'm like, why in the hell would he ask me that question, you know? And then all of a sudden I get these questions from somebody else. You know, hey, how much longer going to keep on going? And then I'm down to Daytona one time and Bill France Jr. comes up and said, how much are you going to keep doing this?

I'm going, okay, I'm getting all these questions. There's something going on because what was going on. The reason I'm getting these questions is because I was on like a 65 race losing streak. You know, and they're like, oh, man, everything's going the wrong way. Probably the same stuff Jimmy Johnson's getting, you know, currently. Right. And so I got thinking about that. And then I go to the banquet and,

I'm hearing these TV guys wanting to start doing this stuff. And they start coming up to me, wanting me to go to work and do TV. ESPN was one of them and asked me to come up and rehearse. And I did all that. And they liked all that. And so then I tell RP about it. And he goes, you know what, man, you've accomplished everything you really have done this sport. I know you want to win Daytona and you haven't done that.

But everything else, you're pretty well done. And he said, maybe this time just started thinking about it, you know. And I said, okay. So then I get this offer from ESPN. And I said, let's do it. Let's pull the trigger. Let's go announce it, you know. And so in 2004, I announced I'm going to quit.

And I'll never forget. I'm at Homestead, Florida, 2005. Finish like 11th in a race or something. Pull off the track. I'm going, this is the stupidest decision I ever made my entire life. What in the world am I doing, you know? Well, how did I get myself talked into this? How did I go down this road?

And I got out of that car and I was the emptiest I ever felt my life. And then I go around the very next thing I do, I go to a two, an Indy car race because ESPN didn't get the deal to 2007, and I retired in 2005, so I had a 06, nothing going on. So I want you to call Indy. So I called the Indianapolis 500. I did all this stuff and had a great time doing it, but I just felt empty, you know. Man, it was, and I, that took a long time to get over.

Right. It wasn't. And still, I was standing in front of your building a little while ago, and there's six kids out there with a bunch of die-cast cars. And so I sure wish you get back in the car, man. on, get back in the car. Why'd you do this? That was a stupid. And the guy looked at me in the eye, said, that was a stupid move. How long did it take you to get over it? Five years? It took me, no, it took me longer than that. It took me eight years to get over it.

I got a phone call from Daytona. They want me to go to Daytona and run a Ferrari challenge. Had a 123 cars show up. And I thought I was just going on to do a show. And I said, no, man, we want you to go down there and be serious and try to win this Ferrari challenge event. So why you want me? He said, because you're not driving now. and Ferrari said get one of those retired NASCAR guys to compete with our guys, you know. And the Ferrari Challenge cars are super fast cars, you know, and there are 200-mile-hour cars. I went to Austin, Texas, and tested for two days in this Ferrari. Then I went to Daytona, 123 cars showed up my finished 10th.

And I was pretty happy, happy with that. And then I got the juices flowing again. I said, Matt, I got to get back in this car. And I said, no, I'm not going to do that. What year was that? Then I got drunk one night with all my friends, and this is true story. Finally, he gets drunk. I was up in the mountains.

I was up in the mountains, and I'm sitting there one night. And a friend of mine was there, and there was a guy named Billy Nash. And Billy and I were having some beers, and he said, I have it stupid you getting out of that car. And Childress was calling me. He said, man, he said, as soon as I retired, he's like, you need to get back and get in one of my cars. So I called him up and said, all right, I'm going to come out of retirement. I'll drive your car. He says, I can't do it.

I said, why? So I just hired Clinton Boyer. I got no room now. So did you ever get an offer that you really consider? No, I never did get it. Was there any rumor that DEI called you at one time to see if you wanted to come drive for DEI? No?

Never to get that. Wow. Not that I know of, you know. Okay, yeah. But that's kind of that stuff. Yeah. I think about it all time when I go to like yesterday at Martinsville. I say my old car win the race, the two car wins,

and it doesn't win by a little bit or just dominate, you know. Right. Well, it wins both stages and wins 445 laps. I used to call that. Every time I would win these old race, I get out of the car and I tell old Roger Penske, he said, man, that went good. He said, what'd you do? I said, I popped open a can of whoop-ass, man, is what I did. And that's what that was yesterday or the other day at Martinsville. Without Dr. Jerry Punch starting the string of questions and without that,

what year do you think you would have raced to then without the pressure to retire? Probably, probably 08. So, probably four or five years. Probably three more years. remember, Mark Martin and I, we announced almost the same time that we're going to retire together. And we retired and we went to Sears Point and Fox brings out rocking chairs for both of us. I remember. Presents that to us and I start finish line. And we're getting keys to the city all year long. We're getting all these accolades and all these cool things. And three quarters way through the year, Mark says, nope, I've made a mistake.

I am not retiring. And he just pulled out of the deal. And did you look at him and go, hmm, maybe. Maybe I should do that too? Yes. Right. Hell, yeah, I did. I said, so I'm out here in his island all by myself now and I'm retiring and I'm still

think it's stupid. But I had one of the smartest guys in the world and that's Penske. He said, don't listen to that noise. You're making a right decision. You're making a right decision. You need to start focus on those car dealerships. You need to start focus on business and you need to get that race car stuff out of your head right now. You've done that.

And I said, all right. He's the one that calm me down the very most. And my wife, Patty. Patty was like, sure it was great having you at home, you know, and it was just she liked that better. So being sponsored by Miller all, most of your career,

did you race the other beer cars a little harder than everybody else? Yeah, I think I had too little bit, you know. Boy, I tell you what, it was like the big three in Detroit. If the Chevy beats the Ford,

everybody talks about it. Well, that's Miller guys, they did not want to hear that Budweiser car beat that other car. That's true. Yeah. That is absolutely trial.

Remember from our Budweiser days. Our Budweiser guys are, the same way. Yes. When they looked at the finishing order, they want to know where the Miller car was and the chorus car was. Yeah, 100%.

I asked that because one of our listeners hit us up on social media and said, it seemed like he always raced you harder than everybody else. And I felt that too on the racetrack. I felt the competition, I think, between our sponsors. And I was racing the field and the Miller car. Yeah. And the chorus car, you know.

And, but I remember one of the first lessons that you taught me, you might not even been intentionally trying to teach me anything, but we were racing at Atlanta in 1999. I had a five race schedule. And I had never ran on a big track before too many times and had a lot of big track experience. And we went down into term one and you were on my door and I almost spun out. I'd never been in that situation before where you could take the air off of the side of a car, you know, and I almost spun out. We've raced all day long, it seemed like that race. And I learned so much. When you're, you know, when you're in that point in your career, this was 99, you had, you were inevitably put with younger drivers as teammates.

Did you feel like you were a mentor? Did you enjoy having teammates, working with teammates, teaching younger guys? Or was that sort of, you know, kind of on the back burner compared to what you were trying to do with your own career? Look, I got to tell you. I, I, I, I'm proud of what I'm about to say. I was never good at that. Yeah. I was never good at saying I'm going to get a teammate and I'm going to teach a teammate. I remember when your dad came up to me and we were children, so we're going to get a teammate.

He told me, said, I'm sick of this teammate crap. I said, because I'm the veteran and I feel like I got to be spending half my time teaching them. He said, they're not coming up teaching me. They're not helping me. All the information is flowing the other way. And it's draining me. I don't like it, you know. And then my particular deal with the Newman, it just got competitive.

got competitive. It was just personalities were totally different. It got to where he didn't like me and I didn't like him. And that's what it was, you know. And I tried to get better. And we had hot and cold years, but I just wasn't real good at all that teammate crap. I really wasn't, you know. And I remember talking about, I was talking to Rick Hendrick about it. And I told him one time, I said, man, we're talking about getting a young guy and this and that. And he said, hell, if I need a young guy, I go find one to steal from somebody else. That's what he said. said. That's right. He said, I'll go find one and steal them from somebody else, you know. He said, this, you know, tutored in all this young guy stuff and spending all this money, you know,

let somebody else do it. And so I'm, but I am, I, I'm happy that guys like you and guys like Kyle Bush are spent all that money and time bringing these new guys up because nobody else is probably going to do that. You know, I want to ask a follow up to his question. when Budweiser took their sponsorship from Hendrick over to DEI to put it on this guy's car in 2000, they put a lot of money just in the announcement. I mean, I remember him talking about the most nervous he's ever been in a race car. Was that first qualifying for Charlotte in 1999. What was the reaction from your side of the camp, not just so much that, you know,

your good buddy, Dale Earnhardt's son, is now into the in cup. He's now won two championships in the Bush Series and the Knowsy Cup. But now Budweiser is backing him. What was your thought to that? You know, it was a big buzz because Dale can drive a car. He's popular as hell. He's a great driver. And it comes from an incredible family.

So they knew what was happening. They knew that car, that sponsorship was going to one hot ride car and one hot ride driver. You know, so, hey, it was competitive. There's no doubt about that. And I'm not sugar-coating this at all. I know you know what I'm about to say, man. I said, these beer companies, I don't care what they say. They hate each other.

Yeah. They don't like each other. Understand what I'm saying right now. Budweiser hates Miller and Miller hates Budweiser. That's just the way it is. It's so competitive. It's incredible on the field. And I've learned out right of west.

Man, you guys are mean, dude. What's going on here? I'm in a Bud Shud shootout in Daytona, and I get a Budweiser guy comes up to me because I'm in a bud shootout. And he's super nice to me. and I'm like, I said, I don't trust this, dude, you know. There's no way he can be nice, you know, because they all hate each other. The guy was truly nice to me, you know, but I was having a hard time understanding that.

That's interesting. Yeah. No, not only did they hate each other, but like, you know, we learned really quick that even the, like for Anheuser Bush, there was multiple brands and the brands didn't like each other. Like everybody's like, you know, it'd be cool? You run a Bud Light car. Do you understand that would be almost as bad as running a competitive beer brand car? Like the Budweiser guys paid for that. Especially Budweiser, because Bud Light was out selling Budweiser.

And Budweiser was like, hell, no. The last place on the car. Right, right, right. Wow. Well, so you had Stephen Wallace, your son, he races. Me and Stephen have a pretty good friendship, and he's a lot of great things going on in his life. Still racing, still out there competing. What's he, you know, what's his future?

What's he been up to? and how are you guys working together to keep his racing going and keeping him on the racetrack? Good question. Thanks. I talk to him every single day. In fact, I'll see him a little bit when I leave here. But he just had a baby. Right. Had a baby. And now she's a small one. Her name is Nova. And she's about seven and a half pounds. And Stephen is turned into this incredible fabricator. He's, you know, to see him the things he does in fabrication. It just blows me away. And he's built some really cool cars. He's built this incredible.

C-10 Chevrolet truck right now. So he's going to be selling a lot of custom stuff, but he loves his short track racing. And he's running all the, uh, the Fury style cars right now and, uh, the beautiful cars. They're picking a new one up today that the mad scientist over there, Tony Urie Jr. and senior have been working on, you know, and they're going to deliver that to us today. So I can't we see what this rocket ship looks like. But Steve loves doing that type of stuff. And, uh, he was up his, I think the last race he ran was a big race up in Kenley, North

Carolina and he was running second with a handful laps and we blew an engine. So now the next race he'll be up. He'll be at the motor mile up there running the race up there. But he loves the super late models. What he really wants to do, he's hot and cold on wanting to get back in the NASCAR because he's having a good time what he's doing. Now he's got the baby and he's like messing with these hot red trucks and his short tracking. But he said, if I ever went back into it, I'd want to do the truck series. He really likes the truck series. He thinks it fits his style better, you know. But he's doing real well. He's really matured, older now.

He used to be wild and crazy as all hell, you know, but that's not the Stephen you got right now. I don't know if you've heard this story. Maybe you have, but long time ago, we used to go out on the lake on Sunday. Yeah, I guess it was Sundays or Mondays. Anyways, we had a race, and it was on the West Coast, and we would get back from Phoenix about 4 o'clock in the morning. we'd get right on the boat and go out on the lake at 4 in the morning. And so me and my friends, we got a boat full of people driving across the lake.

Sun's just starting to come up. We're going to go to this place called the sandbar and tie up. Well, we get there probably four hours, five hours for anyone else. And we start drinking, having hanging out. And right around 3 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon, I went downstairs in the cabin and went to sleep. I woke up and the boat's running. and I'm like, okay, I'm going somewhere. I don't know where I'm going.

Somebody's driving my boat. I go up, and there's nobody on the boat. I go upstairs and Stevens driving the boat. And I was the only one on it, me and him. And I was like, Stephen, where are we going? He goes, I'm taking you home, man. We're going to Willys. Willys is my stepfather.

And him and Willie had become friends through the ProCup series when Stephen was driving the ProCup cars and so forth. And he's like, oh, I know where he really lives. I'm going to take the boat back. We're going to put the boat up. I'm going to take you home. And I was like, all my friends that I had on the boat to go there were gone. They left you alone?

Left me. And Stephen was your designated driver. Stephen was the one guy that was going to make sure my boat got taken home. I'll be darned. See, there's lots of stories. I haven't heard that one, you know. He's got a lot of stuff. He doesn't tell me, though.

That was one of the nicest things that anybody's ever done for me. and he didn't you know he he wasn't worried about where the party was going and where everybody else was going i'll be darned but uh he loves his boats man he sees he's got a new one right now he just built he built this big houseboat oh my guy I love really like stuff yeah man I didn't know that yeah spear fishing boats and all that you know yeah put these big old lights on the front of with generators and stuff and he goes out there middle of night that's what uh yes we had bo fishing bo fishing Jeffrey Jeffrey Jeffrey's and he took me out there and we did that one time You ever went out with Stephen and done it in the middle of the night?

No. It's actually pretty fun. I mean, you're just kind of drinking beer and, you know, cruising around five mile an hour, looking for these, you know, looking for these fish. These ugly-ass fish, right? And there's no sights or anything. It's not like you're not aiming, really. You're just kind of pointing it at the thing. And it's pretty funny.

That's cool. I'll be asking about that story when I see him a little bit. You should because I thought, that's pretty incredible. I mean, you raised him right. What's Rusty Wallace like as a grandfather? Oh, man, I'll tell you what, I've changed a lot. I really have because now I've got four of them. Yeah.

My oldest son, Greg, has got Ian and then we got Caroline, Olivia, little twins. And now we got Stephen with Nova. And this is something my wife has waited forever for. She's been waiting and waiting and waiting. Now she's just all laid up in the grandkids. And the other day, or Saturday, we're over at Greg's house for Ian's second birthday. And we've got to talk about my phone's full of birthday pictures for little kids and stuff right now. So I'm kind of a little softie right now.

I'll do whatever they want. Katie, my daughter's getting married in June 15th in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, or down in Mexico. And we're taking all those little babies down there. And that's going to be a ride. That's going to be a trip on an airplane, isn't it? Yeah. So they're going to be throwing them out on my lap.

I'll be holding on all those kids going down to that airplane while they're all screaming on hollering probably. But, yeah, I've softened up a lot when it comes to that, that's for sure. Yeah, I bet. Well, man, we appreciate you coming on. It's been a lot of fun hearing your stories, and we'd love to have you come back. Okay. So, Rusty Wallace, folks.

The man, the myth, the legend. Thanks a lot, guys. It was cool. Had a lot of good conversation there. Yes, sir. All right, Bahama, friend. You had his number with a big X through it on your car. A week after Bristol.

Now, that can't be a show car now. That's got to be your car. I don't know. Honestly, I promise, I don't remember that. I don't remember that. Yeah. I do know one thing. That would not have been something that I would have promoted and said to do.

Yeah. Oh, man, I think it's really interesting that back, because I did that too. Like, and I had a Calvin pissing on this guy's initials on my car after he spun me out the week before at Myrtle Beach. And so, I mean, I thought that that kind of stuff was kind of commonplace. Well, the Sardine story, that was you and Dale, wasn't it? I mean, maybe that was just a prank. Maybe that was just a, just a, throwing around type thing. That's what I always took it as is when you'd see that kind of stuff, it was basically just jabs.

It was just fun jabs between the teams. I've never seen, you know, I've never seen individual. Your dad ran in a pack. It never was him doing it. Yeah. It was him with, you know, Kirk Schomerdine or Chalkler, all these guys in this pack. And they're all like, doing this thing together.

I'll never forget when I get in the damn car at Darlington. And I get in my car and it stinks so bad I can't see straight. You know, and I get in and I sit down and I feel like I'm sitting in a big old mush and I get out and I'm like, what in the world? And I picked a seat cover up and it's full of sardines. And I back out and I turn like this. And it's not him staying here by himself. There's like Ada behind him like a football team.

We're like a football team backing them up or look what we just did, you know. So the sardine story is true. Oh, yeah, it's true. And how'd you get him back? I stole the steering wheel the next week at Bristol. When Bristol comes up again, we're getting ready to go. He's back there holding court, and we used to stick our steering wheels on the roof of the cars. And so he's over there just going on and on and on.

And I just reach up and took a steering wheel off his hood, roof of his car. And I just walked around real quiet. Nobody saw me. Nobody saw me tuck a damn steering wheel off a car. I took the steering wheel, popped off the Velcro off the, you know, well, no, we didn't have Velcro then. We stuck them on. Then you put the Velcro on for the push button on them. So I took just a wheel and I put up my car.

You went out on track? No, I'm sitting there on pit road getting ready to start to race. Oh, shoot, the race. Yeah, we're getting me to start to race. And I'm sitting a car, you know, and they're all buckling down and all that. And I'm just looking in a mirror to car and I'm looking. And all of a sudden I see panic going on. They're all going eight p-a-it.

You know, everybody's going nuts and where's the wheel? You got it? No, I don't have it. You got, no, no. They're going nuts. I mean, it's just getting frown. They're freaking out. We're getting ready to say, gentlemen, start your engines into doggone Bristol 500,

and damn Dale Earnhardt doesn't have a steel wheel. And he's just going to go crazy. Finally, I reached up, I took the wheel, and I went, oh. And he goes, oh, man, you got me on that one, you know. I said, no more sardines in my seat, dude. That's epic. That's epic. A true story.

Why did he put sardines in your seat, just because? Because him and I are going for the championship, and he was just screwing with me all year long, trying to rattle. Probably. Yeah. Holy cow. Sure it was, yeah. Sardines in the seat, man. Did you guys ever apologize to each other for any one thing? Like, did anything ever go across the line that you're like, I'm sorry, that was wrong? The closest it came was when him and I got together at Michigan and it's not a, hey, like you might do nowadays.

It's it wasn't a, man, you know what? I'm really sorry about that. I have. It's just a poor decision. It's my fault I take to blame. His, you know, saying I'm sorry is, hey, man, I'm over that shit. What about you? Hey, man, I'm over that. You're okay? You're okay with that? Yeah, I'm okay, okay, bye. That's it.

That's how they went. That'll do. You're talking like three or four seconds, and that's about it, you know. That's great. It's crazy. Thank you so much for coming. All right, you bet. Thanks.

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