The Dale Jr. Download - Here's What You Might Not Know About BJ McLeod

Episode Date: April 17, 2026

It's amazing what you can get done in 30 minutes, and even more amazing if you do it while listening to Dirty Thirty! You'll hear from your favorite hosts, NASCAR President Steve O'Donnell & BJ McLeod, too! We open up with Actions Detrimental, where Denny Hamlin weighs in on his former teammate Kyle Busch's recent struggles and why it doesn't add up to him. Next, Dale Jr. talks about Ty Gibbs' prime years and whether they will be affected whenever the day comes where Joe Gibbs is no longer in charge of JGR. In the guest episode this week, you can't miss him if you see him — BJ McLeod walks us through being compared to Jeff Gordon in the late '90s and why his big break never came. Over on the Bless Your 'Hardt set, we're back to talking about phones, and Amy gives us insight into the proverbial journey her phone goes through daily. And last, but definitely not least, NASCAR President Steve O'Donnell gives us a rundown on the changes being made to Talladega's stages to combat fuel saving — and why they are NOT a permanent fix. That's all for this week! Don't forget to check out our merch at shop.dirtymomedia.com. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey everybody, I'm Dillon Hart Jr. And this is The Dirty 30. The best highlights from all of our podcast this week, 30 minutes every single Friday. The Dirty 30 coming in short. Let's get right to it. This episode of The Dirty 30 is presented by Arby's new Meat in Three Box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meets.

Is this Kyle's last year, RCR? Like, I feel like it feels like they just need to. Where's it going to go? Where's it going to? They can't stay there. Like, it just isn't working there. You retire then? Where's it going to go, Travis?

Aren't there going to be there supposed to be like 15 to 20 drivers that are free agents this year? Okay. What big teen is going to hire him? I know one that's not. I don't know. I'm saying in Gibbs, right? They're happy with their lion. Kyle's 40 years old.

I think it's better to the, what are the, what are the, Potential open seats. Potentially the 48. Okay. What else? Maybe a spire car. Okay. Is that it?

I don't know. This is not new news, though. We keep talking about this, but it's... In this last couple years of Gibbs, things were not good. So it, this is not new, this is not, oh my gosh, you know, where is this coming from? This has been like this for five years. We have to have an honest conversation at some point. Travis, get him back on the show. Honest conversation. I mean, he's not, you know, so how much is this RCR and how much is this? I don't know. I clearly RCR is not good right now. Well, I think,

that's what a lot of people think is that... But you're a Hall of Fame Mount Rushmore driver. You carry it better than your teammate then. Okay? That's fair. Okay. If you're the greatest,

then carry it better than your teammate who's won 10 races. Find a way. I think that's what he should be able to do. But it's not happening. He's right now 7.000. points ahead of Austin Dillon.

Okay, then. It's time to be honest about, you know, what's going on. You know, and I just don't, I, it's, I think he's searching. I think that he doesn't know how to get the speed out of the next gen car on a consistent basis. There's been flashes of it. And when, yes, he won three races this first season at RCR. that was the first year of next gen was it not it was yeah everyone was guessing everybody was guessing

at that point that's when track house was hauling ass and you know there were just there were always like these isolated teams that would pop up and like dominate the weekend and was like wow it's but now that everything is coming out in the wash it's you're seeing these cars running closer together Like look at any of the statistics of where the dispersion of dots were on lap times in 2022 at any particular track. And look at that same track today in 2026. The whole field went from spread like this to like this. Everyone's so close now. So as a driver, you got to make up the difference.

You are the difference maker. You're the one that sends the teams in the direction. And so I, it's just my opinion. And Kyle Bush, I can't hold the guy's helmet talent wise. But I just think that this is not new. He's been, he's struggled for five years now. And so we just have to be honest about our expectations. And if you're expecting Kyle Bush to just go back to victory lane on a regular basis,

you are kidding yourselves and you're going to be very disappointed. I just think that until we change cars or something changes, something has to change. I don't know what. I have no idea. I'm not in his shoes. I'm not as crew chief. I'm not as engineer. And I'm not as team owner.

So I'm not in the weeds. I'm just a podcaster that happens to be on the racetrack around him. And I can just say that it's just not working. But I don't have the answers. and we need to just live in this reality for the time being. Kyle is a competitor who hates losing. Hell, he hated, I mean, the guy would have the worst attitude when he runs second. Remember that?

Like, that's how much of a competitor he was. So I know it's eating at him alive that how bad he's running every week. But it's starting to be the normal. it's like the good weeks are actually the outliers. That's, you know? And as someone who is this teammate knows how much work the guy puts in. And I mean, he's racing a lot now during the week and chasing his son around. He's in the racing world 24-7.

But he's not in the next-gen car. So, I don't know, though. like he's went through many different car changes. You know, he was around when it was like the Gen 4 car. Winning, Gen 5, winning, Gen 6, winning. He was around for all those. He was able to adapt to those. But now, I don't find that this next gen car needs a lot different than what it.

I searched for the same feel that I did 10 years ago or 15 years ago when I go to these racetracks. but it's something is just not registering. But also, we cannot ignore the fact that Gen 6 car, his last few years, and Gen 6 at JGR was not good. So it's just, I don't know. I don't know.

And I don't think he's at the age where the light switch has gone off for him. but it, it just, something just doesn't feel right. Well, Ty Gibbs may not even be in his prime yet. Oh, I don't think he is. Not close.

Yeah. And so, yeah, just think about that. Like, he's sitting there fourth in points and, you know, definitely in the conversation around points, but I don't think that he's... When could he hit his prime? Is he five years from it still?

Could be. Oh, I mean, I think that you're, if you're in a great situation with a great team, it could start around, you know, the age of 25, run to 35. Yeah. I mean, he's not even. Different for everybody. Just different for different people.

Like Denny's is, you know, Denny's is a lot, his prime run is a lot longer than most. But most guys get about a 10-year window of like their really peak. It could still be great after that. Yeah. I feel like Ty is in a really good spot to have the same path that Denny had with the equipment that he's in, because Denny's been in A plus equipment his entire career. So his prime window obviously stays open longer, in my opinion. Play opens up sooner too.

Definitely opens up sooner. The challenge for Gibbs is going to really be how that operation is ran from the top down. Joe is way up there in age, right? He is absolutely, he is his celebrity status, his recognition, name recognition, all those things, 85 years old. So that right there is how they, he's a big huge part of their sustained success,

partner relationships and all those things, right? So how they carry that on beyond Joe himself is the key to TIE's success, right? So for example, I mean, I would say it's kind of like... What do you think Ty needs to keep to see it? Let me just say this. So, DEI, for example, right? DEI with Dale Earnhardt and without Dill and Hart, two different buildings, two different operations, two different businesses. even though the names there, the legacy's there,

to be able, it is just not the same if that man isn't walking in the building. The way he would come in there and talk to employees, the way he would, you know, shake hands with sponsors and market the company. When that leaves, someone else has to come in there and do that. Someone else has to come in there and be that. And no one could replace that, right?

And so no matter, you know, DEI can be successful, but it is not ever. going to be what it was without Dale Earnhardt present and in the building. And so that is the challenge for Gibbs is when Joe is gone, how can they continue to have the partnerships they need to fund the operation, maintain the critical, talented individuals in engineering and crew and support to be able to build fast race cars. And if they can find that magic way to do those things,

that charisma and that ability to really truly be successful in operating the business, TIE's got a real opportunity at a solid 20-year career with a lot of wins. Those positions are hard to fill, though. The leadership. Yeah. It's hard to fill those. Well, they may have a plan. And you're like, I'm sure you know,

their stories about people that worked with your dad. The things he would do, like go see him on the land. Just walk up and, I mean, that made their day. Like, they couldn't wait to get there. And also, like, a sponsor maybe once chose, like, you know what, I don't have that same relationship with whoever takes over. I may not want to. Exactly.

That's what I'm speaking about. Yeah. Yeah. So the leadership, tie ties, I know that's a long view, but that's truly, like, what kind of driver can tie be? like if he's driving for Joe Gibbs racing he's going to be as good as Joe Gibbs racing is yeah right because he's a winner ties now a winner ties a guy that's fourth in points

he's a winner get him in a great race car he's going to get you a great result very not really mistake prone he's dialing it in not in his prime this guy's got a great runway right but he's going to be only as good as the equipment and the organization he's with

and so that's that's kind of how I'll look at that in 1999 you were heralded as being a potential next Gordon in the Daytona Beach News Journal I know of New Smyrna and I know of all these places that you've been racing at

but I had never heard your name or really knew who you were until you got into the Xfinity series right and I had no idea that you had done all of this

and I don't think that a lot of people do like when we're on when we're on our broadcast and you're in a race or you're you're around and we're going to mention you and talk about you people will say yeah this guy won a lot of races in Florida

raising late models but nobody ever really goes into detail about it and I think a lot of our current younger fans know you mainly from your experience in racing in Cup and Xfinity as a car owner as well but

you legit like won some badass big late model races talk about like you know what first off I guess take me through the how much you enjoyed racing

at that level in Super Late models, having success. What did you believe was your dream at that time? What was your path? Where did your vision, where was your vision? Where did your vision have you going? Yeah. I mean, if you go back to the beginning of Superlates,

I mean, my entire life, so five years old, I actually want to be an IndyCar driver. Yeah. Then I've turned eight and started growing. And that 10, I was 5, 8, and 185 pounds. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to go to NASCAR route, right? So I just felt like I fit more in NASCAR.

And especially back then, you know, most of the guys were big guys, right? So I, you know, I really dreamed of being a NASCAR from, you know, before 10 years old, right? Probably around 7 or 8. But, you know, I was always wanting to go there. Had no idea at that age what it takes to make it to this level. Really just focused on what my parents, you know, had me in, which, you know, was go-karts then and switched to super-late models. And, you know, I started winning in super-lates and everybody's telling me that, you know, I can make it. I can do this. I can be a NASCAR. And I kind of thought that you just get there, right? Like you just keep winning and eventually you'll be there. And, you know, I kept winning and I never, never made it to NASCAR, right? And there was a point where, you know, I had a couple interviews. I come up here a couple different times for different stuff. And like what?

So I got I actually tried out for the Herzog ride when Jimmy was moving Hendrink. They did like a combine type deal where you know you went to Concord and drove the car, drove the ASA car. And and then if you did well enough there, you were going to get to race it. And, you know, I went up and there was like nine different drivers. I remember the car I got in. I already had the back bumper smash. Somebody put in the vents. And, you know, I remember parking on pit road after the test.

I did suddenly five laps straight. And I still remember. I varied two laps, I varied two tents, and I never been on Concord, but two laps, I varied two tents, and the other 73 laps of varied four hundreds. And I hadn't been an ASA car and, you know, probably three years at that point. But anyway, I remember parking on Pitt Road and Howie Letto walked up and he was like, putting a win in that down. And he's like, how did you like to race Nashville? And I was like, I'd love to race Nashville, right? So they took me to Nashville and, you know, we were third quick in practice. And it's weird how you remember this stuff, right? Like, that's 20 years,

20 plus years ago. So anyway, third crack in practice, went out to do a mock run. Somebody spun, and then I parked just to, I just slowed down to miss them, and I got ran over. Travis Kittleson actually hit me running like 80 or 90 mile an hour, destroyed the car. And we had a bad backup. And bottom line, I think it was 18th or something in the race. Had a meeting with Herzogs after the race.

They wanted me to come test the actual bush car back then. I think it was at Kentucky. They were doing a test. and then there was some kind of misalignment when we left. That's really, you know, an odd situation because I was getting told by, you know, like, their agent. They had, they had their own, like, agent people that worked with them. They were communicating with me, and then I had an agent as well. And, you know, they were going back and forth.

And it was like they wanted to offer me the ride that Bodon actually ended up taking. Todd took it. Or, yeah, it was Todd took it. And, you know, they offered, they told me, even told me a money amount, you know, amount of years. like they were getting a contract and and um the last conversation i had was it was like something about i had to fire my agent and sign with with you know this group and i don't it wasn't i don't know i don't know what was going on i don't really know i just know what i was told right and i was told i had to sign with with these other agents and i just you know the way i was raised and the

things i did i just you know i was i wasn't i just wasn't going to fire my agent bottom line like it had nothing to do with the money. I'd have drove the car for free. I could make money to eat. Like I had no worries about that. Truthfully, my entire life, I just know I'll make money. So it's, it was more about, I'm not going to step on the guy that got me an introduction because I had been winning in super late models until this agent come to me. It was Jay Schultes. Until he come to me, I, I didn't ever get a chance. And he got me literally come to me. And in a month, I had an interview inside of Herzog's building, right? So, You know, I went and I just, I told him, I said, you know, I would, I said, I don't mind if it's about a percentage thing.

You guys can take your percentage. He'll take his percentage. I'm going to keep him. But I'm not signing with y'all with the agency. And I never got a phone call back. And it really just all ended right there as far as that one goes. And to this day, I am thankful I made that decision. I have zero regret.

Even knowing that, you know, Todd won, I think a race or two in that car. And could have changed the whole landscape of me being. you know, 42 years old with zero wins and really, I think I got two top tens to, who knows, if I got in that car, I may have ended up being a successful truck driver, you know, getting several wins. I don't want to go back and redo it. I'm 100% happy with the decision I made. So I, you know, I, you know, I'd already met Jessica at this point, my wife now. You know, my parents had, had, and I had started a little, you know, excavating company where we just went and bought, we, you know, I had a couple trackos and excavators and front end loaders and bulldozers,

things like that. We just kind of got one of each. She just start going that route. Well, when the hurricanes come and tour everything up, there were so many demolition jobs. And at this time, you know, Jessica, she called me one day and she's like, do you, do you want to do get a demolition license and see if you can go get some work? And I was like, well, how much is it? And she said, 50 bucks. And I was like, yeah, I said, let's do it. I said, I'll talk to mom and dad, rent the equipment from them and we'll go do it. So that was the first thing her and I did together. And we grossed half a million dollars in six months. And I was. 19 years old and it's like I you know I just remember going after it working and I took about

probably five or six months off didn't go to the racetrack it was really bad down there at that time and you know I remember my first race back and it was like I I could pay for it like I didn't have have to have mom and dad pay for it right so it um it was pretty cool and I remember that and you know at that point I just hadn't I had never had anything develop in anything up here that wasn't a lot of money. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to win super late model races. Like, I have so much, I always will have so much respect for everyone that races at the regional level in every class.

Like, it doesn't, if you go to the racetrack and race on Saturday night and work on your car and unload it and bust your ass to go win, like, you got my respect. Yeah. So it's, you know, I was happy to stay there and win and, and just go for it. And, you know, I think, you know, we won probably another 40 or 50 races for. from 2004 to 2010. And when I was sitting there on the front stretch, you know, with the take,

I remember this like it was yesterday, I was taking a pictures for one in the World Series. And it was a dream of mine. Like I, it's really hard to do, right? And it's, and it was a dream and it's like, wow, this is, this is, like, it was so cool for about five seconds. And then I, then my mind takes over that I'm, you know, I just like being driven and trying to make stuff happen.

And I'm looking around and I'm like, I can't feed my family with, with winning this, race. Like I can't, I can't, you know, I can't further my life from from accomplishing this in my opinion. Like it was just, it was so cool. And it's still the coolest thing I've ever done, like performance wise on the track. The World Series is the best to me. Winning that at New Smyrna, the best thing I've done, right, as a driver. But it's still, you know, it was, I just saw it as, okay, well, we accomplish this. Now we need to accomplish something that we can't. Right. And that's, you know, my car owner asked me that night, At that point, he said, hey, what would you do if you could do anything the rest of the year?

And I said, right now, I would sell early models. I would round up enough money to go run one truck race. And he's like, if that's what you want to do, do it. I talked to my Kilman Senior, and he's like, if you'll work here every day. Had Jermaine? Yeah, Jermains. They hired you? No, I would do it for free.

You weren't there for free. Yeah, I worked there for free, and they built my truck. So we paid for material, right? They supplied the labor and built me a Craftsman Series truck for October. I was 2010. And I worked every day with everybody there, seven to whenever. I've tore down. I took Todd's trucks apart, did to tear down on them.

And then I'd work on my truck whenever they had time to work on it. And it was really fun because I mean, I did everything, sweat floors, clean bathroom. I did everything you can do in that shop. That's, you know, that was my way in. And the Hillman family, the entire family, and the Jermaine family were the ones that got me going up here. Like without them, I'm not here.

online. Hey, this is Dela Hart Jr. and for all the latest Dale Jr. download gear, including the I'm old drink some beer t-shirt that we've been talking about here around the office, head over to shop.dirtymo Media.com for all the latest merch. Who's most likely to have their phone at 2% always? Amy. Really? Yeah. It's a 2% when I can't find it, that's for sure. I would say if you pulled us in conversation with each other, other, Amy has said the words, the phone's about to die, probably 10 to 1. Yeah, but that was years ago.

I'm just saying, my phone is rarely about to die. Yours is more often. Here's where the loophole is in that. The phone might be close to dying, but then he just switches to his iPad, so he's still available. He's still online. I put the phone on charge.

I know, so like, he's on his phone, I think, more, which he refuses to believe. We're not having that conversation. So his phone does, his phone does get close to dying. How did we get to, he just switches to the iPad. Yeah, that's not the kind of thing. That means your phone's going to die faster. Not necessarily.

If you keep it charged. He's not keeping it charged. He's always around the charger. I know where I'm the one who puts all the chargers in the house. I know where all the chargers are. Yeah, I know. You commandeer the chargers that I plug in, too. You can't, he's like a wire thief.

Have you lost your phone recently? I lost it twice today. I didn't have it this morning. I ran out two different errands this morning already and didn't have it. If you were... If you were... Screw it.

Nobody can get to me either. If you were to sit in our house for a day, you would hear her find my phone alert at least twice. I'll be hanging out and all of a sudden... I'm like, Isla, where's your iPad? Why?

Can I have it? No, I just need to find my phone. I'll be hanging out and all sudden across the house. Ding-da-dain-dang-dang-dang-dang-dang-dang-dang. I'm like, yep, Amy's looking for a phone again. I did it yesterday and it was still in my purse. I had gone and come back

and just didn't even take it out of my handbag. I've lost my purse. Let's check. I've lost my phone. Let's not checking our purse or nothing. Sorry. Very oversimulated and overwhelmed. This has a lot. It's impressive. Well, thanks. I'm glad I can entertain you. Yeah. Is it just your phone that you lose? For the most part, yes. Enough of it's keys or. No, nobody has keys anymore. The keys in my purse or in the car. I don't usually move that around too much.

How about it has keys anymore? I think that's a lie. Okay. We still have to have the fob. I don't lose the fob. I'm pretty good about that. It's just my phone. All right, last one. The changes made to Talladega stages will be enough to end fuel mileage racing. Spot on, spot off.

Spot off. Yeah, okay. It's a small step. Do you? No, I don't want, I don't want fans to think that that's a game changer. But Steve, do you think looking back before this car and all the, like, we've learned things all the time, Do you think with the old car we would have gotten to this point? I think so.

I mean, it's AI, everything that's going on. It's unbelievable where you're seeing the OEs kind of hit what you're doing. So the strategy, it's fascinating how much it's changed. So it's on us to kind of keep going. You know, the stages as we came up with them, we had a certain mentality of how you do it. Now it's totally flipped because we want to try something new. But I don't want fans thinking that's the be all end off.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot to do to figure out. you know, what we could do. I've heard there's so many idea points, all kinds of things. So we're going to spend a lot of time, not just on the car, but we've got a great group of smart people in the industry, too, to listen to, to continue to work on it because we want the best race impossible. Yeah.

I didn't mean a student. No, you're good. I'm glad you speak. I'm kind of glad you said that because I was hoping I was. You better say spot off. I was going to be like. Listen, I have concerns. I think anybody does.

Let me see. For the listeners, just so you know, Freddy's hard card is sitting on the table between he and Steve. I'm wearing this next week. You know, it's hard to pass is why we've kind of gotten to this, and it's hard to pass when everybody is all out, is the problem. So my concerns lie with the long, I think the idea is, I don't think we have the exact stage limits, a stage. Yeah, it's coming out of things today or tomorrow. It's going to be a long first stage and then two shorter stages to end the race. the first stage is going to be so long that I'm worried that we're going to have to,

because what we've seen in the past is we all save fuel, we pit, we come out, we race our asses off to the end of the stage, repeat for the second stage, kind of repeat the third stage. You know, you always have that one run where you save, save, save, save, save, then you race, then we save, save, save, save, race, save, save, save, race, save, save, I'm worried that we're going to have to save, save, save, pit, continue to save, save, save, just to make the first stage on one stop. So, but it's going to be exciting to watch because when we are saving, we're three and four, wide the whole time. So I mean, it's going to be

kind of fun to watch, I think. But then my biggest concern is we have a planned caution that's going to be with whatever you want to say, 40, 50 to go, something like that. So we're going to save up to that point because we know that we can jump guys on pit road under the stage two. And then we're going to run all wide open because we don't have to save. Now,

some guys may short fill to try to get track position. That's a crew chief question. But, you know, I think we're all going to be pushing wide open at the end. And I'm worried we're going to end up with two by too hard to form that third lane again. But here's one thing. We've always gotten to that position. We start pushing with only about 10 laps to go, right?

Yep. So now it's going to be. Hopefully open it up a little bit more. Right. One of the things you saw, right, that is not good is, you know, when fuel mileage, he used to, at least, Denny used to always do this. And I used to be like, thank God he's out

because he'd pull out, he'd at least make a run. There was no, everything was blocked. And that's not a good thing either when you got, when you got the entire track. I don't know who did that. That was a terrible idea. No, no, it's smart. It's smart.

Yes, it's kind of what it's gotten to. And that's what I mean of all these things have evolved. So I would do the same thing. Yeah. And listen, I hope it works. And we have seen it get better. Like, when we first started with this car, once we decided to go, it was two by two, and that was it.

We have seen some of the changes, the shark fin and the A post. Like, we have seen that third lane be a little more viable at places. And I hope to God that that happens again. I'm just, those are my concerns of once. we get to that last stage and we restart and we can all make it on fuel and we all start going wide open, hopefully we can still race each other because that's, that's been the problem from day one is you don't want to be trapped in the back because you can't go anywhere. You feel like you're locked in and hopefully, hopefully that doesn't happen.

I hope this is a step in the right direction. We can go further the next time. We'll see. We're going to see something to learn from something. And there's more coming, right? I think there's definitely more help. I mean, I don't know. The propos to say this publicly about the pit stops.

I don't know with the mandatory. No, it's okay. Oh, oh, I don't think he has yet. But that is something, no, I think that's something that actually, I'm sorry, he did. We're not looking at it this year, but for next year, you know, four tires that you've got to take with fuel, whatever. We're looking at a lot of those things. So if you come down and put fuel in, you have to take tires. So that makes the pit stop longer.

So there's not that such an urgency on saving. Jesus, these tire chains are making $300,000. There we go. There we go. There we are. For 10 years. But no, yeah. But I mean, this is what you want.

You want to see steps because you want to see that you guys are acknowledging that it's not great. And we're taking steps to make it better. All right. That was another episode of the Dirty 30 presented by Arby's new Meat in Three Box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meat.