The Dale Jr. Download - How Never Giving Up Led Lee Pulliam to JRM

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with late model stock standout Lee Pulliam on the heels of his O’Reilly Series debut at Martinsville. Growing up in Semora, North Carolina, on a farm, Lee’s family’s weekly trips to South Boston Speedway inspired him from an early age. As he aged through high school, he devoted his entire existence to figuring out how to get on the race track. Lee explains that he saved every dollar he could to purchase a race car, and that purchase came in the form of a limited late model that took over a year to get race-ready. He entered the ranks at South Boston, and before long, he carved out a career in the Mid-Atlantic that will be celebrated for decades to come. Lee’s dominance at South Boston, Motor Mile, and other East Coast strongholds earned him four NASCAR Weekly National Championships. While he had a firm footing in the short track world, he only had one opportunity to rise to higher NASCAR ranks, which unfortunately folded after a series of bad luck. Lee returned to his grassroots and continued his winning ways until he made the difficult decision to step away from the driver's seat and concentrate on owner duties. After a triumphant return to the ValleyStar Credit Union 300 at Martinsville, which nearly saw him in victory lane, his emotional post-race reflection motivated Dale Jr. to find him a spot at JR Motorsports, leading to the veteran finally making his O’Reilly Series debut this past weekend. Arby’s Meat & 3 box is available for a limited time at participating locations while supplies last. Prices may vary. Get your Meat & 3 box at an Arby's near you today. Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia Check out our merch collection: https://shop.dirtymomedia.com/ Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I remember trying to take the moment in. I remember talking to all my teammates. I remember thanking my team. I remember looking around at the place and being in that venue and knowing what I was about to do. And I remember my leg being weak when I went to throw it over the door. And after that, I was fine. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. You're Dale Jr.

Should I say it? It's Dale Jr. podcast. I got to say it. All right, everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download, and the guest for this week was automatic. This was an easy decision to bring Lee Pulliam in here. Lee drove the car for Junior Motorsports last week at Martinsville and did a pretty solid job. So I know that Lee has won a ton of races, but I don't really know real details. So this is going to be fun for me as we all learn about his history, all the dominating seasons that he's had.

behind the wheel of a race car. And I think you'll be shocked, honestly, at how successful this guy has been over the years. And it's going to be fun. This episode is brought to you by Arby's and the new meat in three blocks. Get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meats.

And we got a great guest today. Let's get started. All right, man, Lee Pulliam on the Dale Jr. download. Man, what's happening? I just living a dream, dude. Yeah, you are. All right. So let's get right into it, man.

I, you know, I wanted to learn more. This will be about, you know, not only your experience this past weekend and all that, but let's talk about your life and how you found racing and all those things. So where were you born? So I was born in some more North Carolina. Where is that? It's a little small town right kind of near VIR and the road course. Really?

Yeah. Just south of VIR. just an average dude you know we grew up my dad we're on a real small logging business and you know i remember being 10 12 years old he'd sneak me out there in the summertime and i'd be driving skitters and stuff like at work in yep uh just uh just lived a normal life you know we had we had some cows and just uh grew up on the farm and just just a little country boy yeah where'd you see racing first south boston uh that was kind of what we did for fun so we with small town. It wasn't a ton to do.

How far is that from the, you know, from the house? 20 minutes. Yeah, not bad. Yep. So we would go there. Sometimes we'd go to Orange County, but most of the time, South Boston. You just go sitting in the stands as a kid? We did. Yeah, and I had a lot of memories growing up, like we ended up meeting David Blankenship's parents in the stands, and David was such a legend at South Boston. And so we would sit with, their names were Harry and Evelyn. They're passed away now, but we would sit with them every week. And I remember they would.

would, every year they'd send me Christmas presents. Like, we were just, we just become really close. So he was definitely one of my heroes growing up. I'd like to say I raced against him, but I didn't do much racing when he was on the track. He was way up there. He was really good. He was good. Yeah.

Yeah. I, you know, we, South Boston's just kind of been, I mean, when I think about late model stock racing, but mainly when I think about Mid-Atlantic, racing in the Carolinas, the Virginia's, South Carolina, Tennessee, even. South Boston is the staple, the standard, you know, for what I think all short tracks should strive to be. And now, you know, it had an O'Reilly race or a Bush race, an Xfinity race back in the day.

I see you kicked tail there. We did. We had some fun. but AC Delco. Yeah. It still, though, operates at such a high standard. Yeah. And so it's an incredible place.

It is. It's carrying the, you know, it's carrying the, you know, the banner for what I think a lot of our short tracks are striving to be. And you grew up right down the road from that racetrack. When did you, what was the first sort of light bulb moment where you're like, how do I get behind the wheel of a car how do i start to get man it was it was early like i i remember like my school teachers posted some photos because i'd race this weekend and they were you know like different things that i drew in different classes i was drawing typically i was drawing dale senior's race car and uh you know he'd always win and uh it was like i was fascinated by

the sport really like we didn't you know we didn't we didn't we didn't grow up poor by any means but we were not wealthy either. Like we didn't have satellite TV. I'd listen to the races on MRN. And man, they would just paint a picture for me. And like it was it was just something every Sunday. I'd get out of church. We'd go to grandmas.

We'd eat Sunday lunch. And I'd stay there and listen to the race on MRN radio. And I just, it just kept manifesting. And I would think about it every night. I remember like now I know probably shouldn't have prayed about things like that, but I remember praying at night, like, man, let me figure out a way to do this one day. And it just, you know,

it never really happened. You know, I didn't know, like, we never got in the go-kart racing. We never got into any of that. We just... Did you tell your daddy? I did. You know, he knew how infatuated I was, but my dad was, my dad lost his dad when he was, like,

12 years old. So my dad had kind of a hard upbringing. So they lost the family farm, and dad really worked his tail off to have have what he had you know and so he was just grinding. I mean, he would be going, I didn't remember a lot of things with my dad because he would be going before the son was up and he would be getting back when it was time for me to go to bed to school. So really as a kid, we didn't, we won't tight through those moments.

Like, of course, he loved me. I know that. Sure. But we just didn't, we didn't have that relationship because he was working all the time. Yeah. So how did it turn about? How did you end up in a chance to get behind the wheel of something? So I graduated high school early.

I went to Piedmont Community College at night after school. Damn. And I would take extra classes. And I graduated high school early. Why? What was the initiative behind being to work and make money to build a race car? Damn, all right. Yep.

So I remember, like when I was in high school, like when I tell you it was growing up without nothing, like I didn't have a parking pass. And I would park it. Donald Fox was the guy's name. I'd park at his house. and one of my buddies would pick me up and take me to school. Like, I was putting away every dollar I could to try to somehow figure out how to get in this dream. So I went to work at a diesel mechanic shop in Callins, Virginia.

It was called Callance Repair. And I would do fabricating, welding. A lot of times, like, these dairy farms would have these solids trucks, and I would stretch those trucks. That was one of my main jobs. I would take, like, they would buy a Mack truck, and we would turn it into a silage truck with a dump, body and all.

Damn. So, like, I was, I was, they called me fireball up there. That's just what they called me because I did all the welding. But, but, yeah, so I was saving money up there. My dad was saving money up because, like, he loved racing, too. Like, he always loved racing. And it was a used car, Danny Willis that was racing South Boston at the time. That's a recognizable name.

Yep. He had a used car for sale. What type of car? It was a Townsend car. Damn, you went right into a late model? I went to, totally. a limited late model. A limited late model.

It was a Townsend car. Who's Townsend? Hell, everybody listening, because I know who he is. Rick Townsend's a legend. I mean, he had an unbelievable business. He won so many races, man. He was, he is freaking legend. Special dude.

Yeah. So done some cool things and a heck of a fabricator too. But we were able to get the car. Now, it was bare. Like it didn't have anything hardly on it. Like it had a body, but it didn't have, And it had a few pieces here, but we didn't have transmissions. We didn't have gears.

We didn't have sprains. We didn't have shocks. So we kept working, and it took almost a year and a half to round up parts, and most of it was used parts. The guy I worked for Calhens Repair, Alan Amos. He bought an engine forward, a 604 crate, a 603 crate engine because it was running limited. And he ended up buying the engine for it. And most of the time, these guys that we were racing against, they would take the crate engines to engine builder and get them speced out, maxed out to the rules.

We ran out straight out the box. And it was a long process. We finally got on track at the end of 2006. Damn. And I remember it like I think it's so crazy because you're, that sounds like that wasn't that long ago. Yeah. Because as soon as you say the year, I take, I run right to where I was in 2006, right?

And I'm like, I was just getting. ready to get out of, I was just getting in a COT at, you know, Budcar coming to the end of that deal, and you just getting going. I had never made a lout. Not even a lap. Not a go-car lout. Damn, a lot of, I mean, that's longer a go than it feels. And, yeah, it means 20 years now, but the, I think for me, that's why this whole thing

means so much, because from, I would say when I was five's until that point, it's what I dreamed of. single day. So like I think that's why I'm so passionate and so emotional about it because it's what I always wanted to do. I didn't get to play sports or nothing like that growing up. Like, and once I got to racing, it's where I fit in. Like it was, it was my life. Like it was something that I didn't take it for granted because I wasn't pushed to go to the track. I was begging to go to the track and it just, I had to work so hard to actually get there that first time. And I remember getting on the racetrack. And at the time, Danny Willis and Bruce Anderson,

and were just, they were winning all the limited races. And I was like, I thought I was just hauling tail out there practicing. About that time, they rolled by me. And I mean, they were like about blow my doors off. And I'm like, shoo, I don't know if I can drive it any corner that deep, you know? And so I just would, every time they'd go out, I'd go out behind them. And I would just drive it deeper and drive it deeper until I could do what they did. I spun it out and different things.

I never hit nothing. But, and eventually, like, we run that. one race in 06 and then I had to wait all winter for South Boston. Oh, I bet you were chomping at the bit. I was. And we went back and we didn't know anything about like I had worked for H.C. Sellers a little bit, just helping him with like some of his customers. Where was your car at home?

So it was at the shop I worked for, Alan Amos. So I was, it was. You kept your car at the work, which was an hour from the house. Dang. Yeah. So I was traveling back and forth. You wasn't home much. No.

Who was helping you? Allen that run the shop and then HC Sellers gave us a baseline to put in the car because you know we didn't know so I remember we had like a little toolbox that you could tote with your hand you know everybody's got these huge war wagons out we had a little toolbox and we had some three quarter inches we had an inch and a eighth to move the track bar we had a half inch ratchet

and we had a spanner wrench and we ran like a we ran like a pair three 50s or something in the front, small bar, and we had like a 175, 150 reversed in the back, just old school. And we would just, we didn't know nothing. H.C. He would write down on the paper how to take crossweight out of the car, you know, one in the left run, you know, so we had all this cheat sheet of what to do if the car was tight or loose.

And man, we were just at the racetrack having a ball. So it was kind of crazy. I ended up winning like my fourth or fifth races out of Boston. Really? Yeah, it was, it was unbelievable. It got a lot of progress in some pretty time. We did. It was pretty crazy.

So it was just natural. It ended up coming natural to me, but I was just fortunate on that side of it. But I don't know. It was just, that's how it began. And then it's kind of crazy to what it progressed to. You're talking about it being natural to you. So, you know, you ain't been in a car all that much over the last six years. You hop back in and you go right to the front.

You win races. You run second at Martinsville last year. you hadn't ran, I don't know, you hadn't ran 400 laps in six years, right? You hadn't had a lot of times. But it does come naturally. It's like a, there are some guys, and you're one of them. I think Josh Barry is one of them. There's some guys that are just naturally a fit for that style of race car, the tire,

the engine, all the things, right? I'm, you know, I've been racing a lot here over the last couple of years, and so I've been around a lot of the drivers out there. And there's a lot of us that get in. there and we're just grinding right and we'll have some good runs and we'll have some bad runs and it just kind of ebbs and flows but don't make a lot of sense but there's certain guys that just seem to be able to get in any car and make the car fast right what is it like you've been around this a long time you've worked with drivers you've seen drivers you've had people drive your cars you've watched people

drive your car and you've gotten in that same car and can make it do things they can't yeah and it's something to do with that you know there's a there's a talent in you that would work across any discipline, I think. Like you could get in a truck, Xfinity, and be just really good. But what is it about the late model stock car? What's the trick to making that car work? I think I just have such a good feel for it. Like, I worked on them for so long, too.

That didn't hurt anything. But I just think I know once I started having success, I would figure out where my car needed to be in practice and stuff like that to be good at night. and I just paid so much attention to things like that. So I think it's all defined details and just super focused, super focused at the racetrack. And earlier in my career, that probably was a little bit like it was one of the reasons I had success. It was also one of the reasons I didn't meet enough people to have an opportunity because when I was at the track,

I was just so laser focused on how to win races. I wasn't focused on meeting people or talking. Networking, yeah, yeah, nothing at all. I didn't do, if I could go back, I would love to redo that part of it. But it's so hard to be good at both sides of it. You felt like that every minute of the day you needed to be devoted to racing, you know, the car and speed and you and being better. And you couldn't imagine, like, sacrificing one moment. Nope, I couldn't.

I thought that I could win my way. If I win this, if I win 70% of the races, there's no way I'm not going to make it. Right. No way. Yeah. And, you know, looking back, it was, um, That's important, but the networking is just everything in this sport, really. Sure.

So how many years did you run in the limited class? I ran too. I won rookie the year in 07. I won a couple races. 2008, I won the championship there in Limited. And then 2009 was my first year in Lake Malt Stocks. Did you change cars? Did you bring the same car?

Same car, yeah, same car. Changed the damn. It was humble. We changed the engine. Yeah, we ended up. At that time, I was winning so many races in 2008. More and more sponsors were coming on board. Like just local people.

Yeah. And I had a tremendous amount of support at the local track. So they helped me get an engine. And we come in South Boston was having 30 cars. Like Wayne Ramsey, Philip Morris, Nick Smith, like unbelievable guys, some of the most talented racers. And man, it was a humbling experience. Damn right.

So I won a race that year in my rookie year, but most of these guys were running brand new cars and I was bringing a limited car up, you know. So it was tough. It was definitely the equipment was not up to par with what they had, but I was able to be competitive and learn a ton. And I think that helped me in the long run because I was taking cars that probably should I run 20 at the South Boston and I was running in the top 10 with them. And I did, like I said, I snuck a win in there.

And that was a moment I'll never forget to. That first win, it was just like, I can do this, you know. Do you remember that night? What happened? Yeah, I do. I was pretty good. I was going to run about third, which was tough. Yeah.

And Jonathan Cash and Nick Smith got into it in front of me. And I remember Cash, I think Cash spun Smith, but either way, it, like, it knocked the body off the 88 car. I remember that. Nick Drew of a black and yellow 88 car and it knocked the roof and all off the thing and ended up getting sneaking by on both and had a good, you know, restart and was able to win a race. So that was probably a third place car that night, but I was the happiest guy in the United States in Victory Lane for sure. Yeah. So it was a big night. So are you running South Boston every night or every week and then, right, are we going and running anywhere else? No, we had just enough fun squeaked out to run South Boston. So I was only running

12, 12 to 14 races a year, something like that. Something. So, yeah, but, and we did try to sneak to Martinsville. We, we didn't make the show, like, we didn't make the show when we went, and that was a humbling experience, too, because I was sitting there, and it was, you know, 110 cars or so at the track at that time. And I remember watching the race from the stands. And that was the most disappointed feeling that I'd ever had in my life was missing the show. I was sitting there.

I was like, I just, I can taste it. I've missed that show and it sucks to miss it. You can taste it. But, I mean, there's so many damn good, I mean, there's 80 cars that don't make the race. That's right. Back in the 90s and you're in the 2000s. It was, you know, you didn't feel like you were one of a few.

No, it wasn't. one of a few, but I just helped myself to a high standard, I guess. But yeah, it was, I actually rented a engine from Philip Morris the first time we went. So the first time I went was 08, I was running limited.

And Philip rented me an engine. And I remember that thing had some steam down the straightaway. It was, I come so close to making it. And I had no experience. I had never run a Lake Mall race anywhere. I come right from limited, and I missed the heat race by like one spot.

But it definitely had some steam. I was bragging on his motor pretty good. Jay Hedgecock, we've had him in here a couple weeks ago to do the show. He helped you on a new car. Yes. How'd that come about? So in 2009, I knew that for me to be able to Lake Mall Stock Race, I was going to have to update my equipment to have a chance.

And I went to several different chassis guys. I went to Townsend. I went to A&E. I went to Jay and like I'm telling them all of them I don't have I'm I don't have I'm I don't have him money but if y'all help me I'm telling you I can sell chassis for you and I said I will pay you if I have to cut grass every single day for five years you're going to get your money I promise you and the only person that took me up on it was Jay and it took probably a year to pay that chassis off and departs and stuff I got from him but

that's why I've been loyal to Jay Hedgecock ever since. I've had so many chassis guys after me to run their chassis. Still to this day, and I've never left Jay because I've never forgot what he did for me in 2010. He's a badass dude. He is an unbelievable guy. And I'm just a guy, like, I have loyalty. Like, if you help me, I'm all in.

And that's how I've been with Jay ever since. And I remember the first time I drove a car, sat on the pole, won the race, and it was like, wow, like this, now we're on a different level. Yeah. And we ended up finishing second in the points that year, but I won, won the second most races. Justin Johnson was really good. Frank Denny was working on his stuff.

And, yeah, he was, I think they were coal-binding before any of us knew what it was. And Justin was tough to beat. But by the end of the year, we had gotten our stuff pretty dominant. It just was a little bit too late in the season. Yeah. So talk about, you know, the breakout season in 2011. You qualified on the poll before that in 2010. You qualified on the pole at the Valley Star 300 and finished fifth, the Martinsville race.

You won five races at South Boston. Then you went to Motor Mile and ran and won 18 races in 2011. You'd win the track championship and also the 300 at Martinsville. Yep. 2010, Martinsville still hurts me. I remember racing Dennis Setzer, and I thought that was the coolest thing in the world. Was he in the Orange Bossom special or somebody else's car?

He was in Charlie Long's Romeo guest, too. Oh, yeah, so it was super cool to. Dude, I went to, I went to, I think in 94, I went to Wilkesboro in my Sundrop car, and I knocked, it was a crash on the back straightaway and I knocked the nose off of it. But that Romeo guest car along was driving it.

Run second. Yeah, that thing was stout. Yeah. That thing was stout. People don't know car along like that. Yeah. You know what I mean? But he used to be damn good

and let him all stop in the mid-90s. Yeah, he grew up not far from me in Rocksboro. Yeah. So, so, uh, Setser was driving that car in this particular race? Yeah, And I remember I was leading it halfway.

Like I was beating them pretty bad. Like sets over second and I put like a half a straightaway on him and I would just sit there and ride. Like we're going to win this race unless we get wrecked. And we come in and we take tires. And when I roll back out, the car starts missing. And then it starts missing more. And now it is just sputtering all the way down the straightaway. I would roll by them in the corner.

They'd roll by me down the straightaway. And what happened, they tech your carburetor. Martinsville and when we put it back on we always we ran the plug wires over the top of the motor at that time now we run them under but at that time we ran it over top of the valve covers and down and we forgot to zip tight we would always zip time to the fuel line so they wouldn't get on the header yep we didn't do it and we had we were running on six cylinders the last part of the race and you know how bad that is at Martinville so I was able to finish fifth down no telling how much power but a dominant car that day.

Like it was a hard way to lose that race for sure. Well, you turn around and win it the next year and you have a pretty dominant season at motor mile. Why did you leave South Boston to go to motor mile? A car count. I was just chasing basically wherever the most cars was. Are you trying to win national championship? I didn't even know about it at the time.

I could have won in 11, but... What do you mean you didn't know about it? I didn't even know about it. I was just racing weekly. Watch it, look at it. Nope. Damn. I didn't even understand the points then.

Otherwise, I'd have won it an 11. In the 90s, when I was doing it, they had a weekly newsletter that was sent out to everybody, and it would give you the, each section of the country had a different division, right? And we were in the Mid-Atlantic with the Myrtle Beach racetrack. And, you know, you'd look at that thing and see who was where. Yeah, I was so unaware of it. I was in the moment. And I would have won a national on 11 if I'd have knew.

anything about it because I finished third only running that track basically. I might have went to South Boston for the 200 lap. Yeah. But race is all you needed, right? Yeah. I mean, it was. South Boston had lost some cars at the time or was the motor mile taken off? Motor mile was rolling.

Man. They had a little run there. It was. It was impressed. Like, they were sending cars home. Yeah. You know, it was no joke. So, and it was just a cool.

What was the lure? Can you recall why people wanted to be going to that racetrack? What was it? Why were they successful? Were they paying great? They were paying good for sure because we would go, South Boston was paying three grand. Motor mile was paying five grand for a weekly race. And like, yeah, and it was, I mean, at that time,

because I didn't have money, that was very important. Like I was always looked as being a rougher racer, like a hard nose racer. But I was looking to figure out how to pay my tire bill, how to pay my engine bills. I took it personal when I was on the racetrack and just, you know, so we were definitely chasing a way to break even at the end of the year. Like we didn't, we just didn't have the money to not break even.

Yeah, we were, we were always chasing stuff like that. And it was, our package was good, our engines were good, Kowalski had really good power at that time. And who was racing at Motor Mile,

will you? It was, Frank Danny was one of them I had to beat. Tommy Lemons Tommy Yeah I mean All the Denny cars Were running good

Through that time Frank Denny had four or five cars At that time Running out of his shop They were always tough The Tommy Lemmon's stuff Chad Harris I don't know if you remember Chad

He was good But Mike Looney was up there racing Philip Morris would be up there some nights So it was just kind of different It was kind of That the core group was probably 20 of us, but it was always 10 to 15 that would kind of jump in from different tracks, whether it was hickory or whatnot.

So it was always competitive. Hey, this is Dellenhart Jr. And for all the latest Dale Jr. download gear, including the Imo drink some beer t-shirt that we've been talking about here around the office, head over to shop. Dot dirtymo Media.com for all the latest merch. You won the national championship in 2012. track championship at South Boston with 19 wins. So you go back to South Boston.

Yeah. Yep. So, yeah, it was an interesting time of my life, really. But it was nice sleeping in my own bed at South Boston. That's for sure. But, yeah, like I said, that was kind of, Philip won the title in 11. And then I got to go to the National Banquet that year

because I finished third. Yeah. So at that point, I'm like, I'm going where Philip Morris is. because if he won a national title, I just need to beat him. Yeah. So I would just go wherever he was at. But 19 damn races, dude. I can't even imagine.

They ain't many people in the world that go, you know, do a short track and dominate a short track like that. I mean, there are a lot of great names. Yeah. In the weekly racing ecosystem and the regional ecosystem. You followed that up with another championship of 2013, or 2013, I'm sorry, back at Motor Mile and 24 wins. Yeah.

You won the murder of each 400. Yeah, that was my first time ever racing there. No shit. That was my first race in Roebeats. It was super cool. I remember I was about a lap down with 30 to go. And when I went, I was coming in our hurry. And I took the lead on the last lap.

So it was pretty cool. But yeah, no, that was a super cool track. We unloaded. We won't act great. and I remember just they had like little turtle shells in the corners and it was all about timing when you touch those things and like I could get my left front on it and it would just make a car rotate and once I figured that out I could get so low up off the corner

and just get the wheel out of it and just straight drive straight drive. So are you realizing at this point, it's roughly 2012-2013, you're literally only five years into this whole experience but you're winning dozens of races at these racetracks every year. You're dominating at these racetracks. Yeah, at that time, I thought there's no way I'm not going to make it. Yeah. I thought there's no way I'm not going to make it.

No way I won't get a phone call. Did anybody call you? So I had a meeting with Kyle Bush about, I didn't actually meet with Kyle. I met with his guy. They wanted me, he wanted me to run his truck. and I was like, man, this is like, this is awesome, you know. And I can't remember. It was like 13, 14, somewhere in there.

And I thought, this is it. And I went there and we sat down and he's like, dude, we would love to have you. Your resume is incredible. Like, you're our number one prospect. And he was like, we can get some funding and help you. But this is the number that you're going to have to come up with. with. And when I seen that number, I was like, I mean, this is a kid that didn't have $10,000, you know, and I was just at that moment, it hit me like, man, how am I going to ever get an

opportunity, you know, and it was kind of, it was tough for me to swallow. And I just, I said, dude, I really appreciate your time, but I, I don't know how I can do that, you know, I don't, I don't have any connections like that. My family has no, you know, we can barely, late mall race. And so I thought it was going to, you know, like when I went down there, I didn't realize how things worked, really. And so I remember touring the shop and the trucks. And I remember all the excitement. And then I remember that part of it. And I remember that like feeling in my stomach. And I was like the realization of what it takes to do this, which is just an expensive sport, right? It takes employees. It takes engines. It takes bad to the bone vehicles. Like,

it's just just how it works. But at that time, I was like, man, I just don't know. And then the winner of 13, I just won the – I started driving for rusty skews a little bit in the Hooters Pro Cup. It was actually – it had been renamed to the X1R Pro Cup. Jack McNally was running it. Yep. And so I won the last Pro Cup race there ever was. I went to Southern National and settled on a pole and I outrun Clay Rogers.

and, I mean, I had never drove these cars, these big, heavy tanks, you know, and I've only ever drove a lake model. And, I mean, I just put it on Clay Rogers. And, like, that dude was a legend in them cars. And so I won that race. I led every lap, won it. And after that, Bruce Cook called me. Oh, well, Bruce Cook.

Yep. And he said, look, I'm taking over at Shiggy Hittories, and would you be interested in driving the K&N car? I'm like, hell, hell yeah, well, yeah, absolutely. And he said, well, it's between you and Corey LaJoy and somebody else at that time. And so, of course, I'm hopeful, but I don't know what's going to happen. Cory LeJoy was winning a lot of races at the time in his own K&N car. And it ended up, he called me one day, he was like, if you want it, it's yours.

So I'm like, where I signed, you know, so went down there, went to the, you know, I'd been to the shop a couple times. And I was like, well, this is, this is it. This is how it starts, you know. And they had, we went to a test session at Gresham in Georgia. That was the first time I ever drove a car. And me and my teammate went to the same session there. And I had been faster than him all day, like a lot. And he had experienced.

they were like, man, your car is just whatever. We had a different package. That crew chief brought a package, and then the crew chief, I had Randy Goss. He brought a certain package for me. And they were like, drive his car and just see if it's the car or what. I drove his car. It was faster in my car.

And I was like, dang, I was like, whatever that thing is, let's put in it. Yeah. So we go to New Smyrna, and that was the first race of the year to K&N. And I qualified in the top three. and me and Daniel Sorrez pretty much had checked out. And I was racing him hard for the lead. And we had a, we had a, like, a halfway stop. And we come in.

And when they checked my tires, the left rear was going flat. I started getting loose in. And the left rear was going flat. Well, if you put a tire on, they send you to the rear. Yep. And, you know, 30 cars, dogs made the call to put 40 pounds of air in the left rear. Like we probably started the race with 10, right? Holy s'clock.

Just hope it would last. Yep. Oh, my God. He put 40 pounds in the left rear. That thing fired off so tight. Oh, I bet. I was able to keep it up front. And then when the tire got to the right pressure, I run them back down.

And me and him had a heck of a battle for the lead. About 10 to go, started hitting the racetrack. It was so low. Now, I was still going to finish second with the thing almost completely flat. And we had a caution. I couldn't get going on it, getting into one. And I got moved. I ended up still.

finished in fifth with the flat left rear. So we go, we race at Daytona on the backstretch. And we had, damn, you run that race? I did. And the K&N car, yeah. And so we go to the backstretch at Daytona and we had two different cars. We had a composite car that I run at New Smyrna. And that thing was really good. And then they had an older steel body car that we run at the backstretch because they figured the race was going to be rough. Well, that thing wouldn't travel. Like, it was like, it was bound up. Like, he just. I'm like something is wrong with the front end They would take rounds out

And it wouldn't travel any further We'd just stop at the same point Well I still finished fifth with it And so I had two top fives And we go to Bristol And we're back in the composite car And practice I kept blowing right front I'd hit the wall

We'd come in Porter power to clip over Like I mean when I hit I was hitting But we didn't have a backup in the trailer We literally poured the power to clip over And I was welding because I grew up welding. So I had to weld out fixing things.

And man, we'd go out and blow another right front. And you'd come in and do it. And they had something off on the spacers. Well, they finally put enough spacer on the right front that it quit rubbing whatever it was. Something like that, yeah. Yep. So I got enough spacer, got it spaced out.

Qualified like, filter six. I remember I just took third. And I'm like, I'm going to win this race today. Like, we're going to win it. and there it was in the can-in deal it's still kind of like that but it's a big speed difference from the cars up front to the cars at the back so we were lapping some of these guys like fast every three to five laps like it was bad well we had just took the green I was third and I would run a big arc those cars don't have a lot of motor I would drive it straight in at the wall like right against the wall on entry and then I would turn my car down the hill hard and it was like I was like I I had a hundred more horsepower down the straightaway, and I was just killing them. And when I turned into one, I was against a wall, and I come down the hill to get a good run out of two, and I'm coming down the hill, and all of a sudden, there's a car sitting like this in front of me.

You know, Spider missed it, just didn't see it. A lap car that we had just laughed a couple laps ago spun, and I'm literally from, you know, two car lengths from him, running 120 mile an hour. I turned the wheel as hard as I could because I was going to hit him straight in the door and I hit him in the left front. And it, I mean, it was probably the hardest hit I ever had in my life.

And it killed that car. It killed the motor. It killed the engine in it. It ripped the truck arms out of it. Like, bad day. And I was actually leading to points because sores was having a bad day. So at that time,

I was going to come out of Bristol as a K&M points leader. So all we had left was a steel-bodied car. And we took that thing to the next couple of racetracks, and I could make it go fast, but it had that same problem. It wouldn't travel. So ended up qualifying fourth at Richmond. It was terrible.

The car was terrible, but I could make speed for a couple laps. Only time I've ever been lapped in my life. I got lapped at Richmond. And I just remember being embarrassed. And I got, they shut down the 11 team that week. And I remember getting that phone call that, you know, they were pretty much out of money and we're going to have to shut this thing down. And I didn't have no money. Toyota was paying for me to drive this car.

Yeah. So they shut the team down. I remember that phone call. And I remember so many different emotions, like, because I knew the last couple weeks had been tough driving that car. And I'm like, man, that would be tough to do this all year long and struggle when I know I can. can win races. But also on the other side, I'm like, man, because they had planned. They had bought some, at the time, it was nationwide series, nationwide cars from either

Kyle Busch or Joe Gibbs. I can't remember which one it was. And there was rumors that because I was so fast that they were going to put me in that car at the end of the year, ended up, Johnny Sauter got in it. And then he got replaced by Ross Chastain. And that's kind of how all that worked. But that was just a tough, you know, just a tough sequence because I will always be thankful that I had that opportunity. So I don't mean that any of that in a negative way.

Yeah. It's just the timing of it just didn't quite rely on up for whatever reason it was. But it was a super cool experience. I got to do some cool things. And like Randy Goss was awesome. He was my crew chief. That dude, he run these motorcycles, flat track motorcycle stuff. And he was like the, he was in.

national champion one year of it. And so it was a super cool experience on that part. He was actually, he's actually Amarola's father-in-law. And I didn't have, I remember I didn't have all the stuff that I needed to pass for like the undergarment stuff. And like Amarola was like giving me, you know, stuff at the time. So all of that was super cool. So I have a lot of good memories from it. Of course, I would have wished that it would have ended up better. But that was, that was pretty much the last call that I ever had. You had to go back to late models? Yep.

I think I won 30 races in 14. Yeah. It was really crazy. Did that make you feeling better? It did in a way, but it didn't in a way. Like, because I felt like I had proven that... You belonged somewhere else. So I kind of had an empty feeling.

Like, I had a, it was a fulfillment in Victory Lane, but it was also an empty feeling in another way. Yep. You, when you go back, to run in 2015 around with the NASCAR late model stock car you had 23 wins at motor mile but you'd also start racing against Josh Barry we had cars out there racing and you know Josh's story how he come from Nashville ran a few races and got his got his legs underneath him and we just kept racing him and kept racing him right and yeah we our little program wasn't

nothing to, wasn't very intimidating. Wasn't nothing to be worried about up until Josh got, you know, got behind the wheel, and he developed as a driver and is a mechanic as well. And we got some people in there to help. And our team got pretty strong. You and him would end up having some pretty incredible battles together. One notable dust-up was at the Denny Hamlin Short Track Showdown. what's your what's your relationship with Josh what was it early what did it develop into

I think early it was um you know it we didn't I kind of like what I said earlier I was kind of a hermit at the racetrack because I just worked on getting my race car so I probably I didn't have all the friendships at the racetrack that a lot of guys had just because I literally was thinking about how to beat these guys every second but but there was no doubt that he was going to be talented and a threat. And I think for Josh, he was coming in. And I didn't always appreciate early on the way he raised me, but I think he just had something to prove, you know, because I was the guy winning.

And whenever you come into something new, you're probably going to, he probably felt the pressure of driving for you too and wanting to perform. So a lot of times I felt like, felt like I got used up a few times early on. and I think that I would give it back and then it just kind of, at one point, me and him were just kind of in a heated battle, it seemed like every week. And it was just a competitiveness in us, though.

Like, I feel like away from the racetrack, we would have been buddies, but it was just two guys that wanted to be the best, and it just created some of that own track stuff. And I'll never forget the Hamlin race would make me mad that day. He wrecked me twice, day. He wrecked me in the heat race and everybody had the heat race to get in and he spun me getting

into one. I did a complete 360 in front of the field, chucked it in third and kept on digging and still ended up winning the heat race. But I'm like, dang, go. Like, we're both locked in. Why would you spend me right here? And so then I didn't say anything, everything was all right. And I remember the last lout. I had Timothy Peters on the outside, and Chase Elliot was driving my car that night. Damn, really? Yeah, Chase Elliott was in my car.

I had multiple cars there. Chase Elliott, I had Dalton Sergeant. So I was checked out. I'll never forget it. I was leading. Chase was running third, and a dagum, power steering hose blew on Chase's car. Oh, f***.

With, like, five to go. And I mean, I'm going. And sets up the caution and so the next restart, I get away. I'm going to win again, about to come to the White, and Dalton wreck C. Falk. Oh, that's another caution, so that was my other car that was in the race.

So both of my cars caused caution. So we lined up again, and for the last Greenway Checker, and I had Timothy Peters to him outside, and Timothy's a really good racer. And I had a really good run off of two, and I could have cleared him, but I rolled out of the throttle on a straightaway

to keep him out there because I knew if he got down he'd get into you a little bit in the middle he was going to rough me up and nothing anybody would have done you know so I just try to keep him there well that little bit of rolling out the throttle allowed Josh to drive it into three so deep

and get to my bumper and you know ended up spinning me and wrecking me and Timothy goes on to win the race coming to the checker but I remember trying to run rub Josh after the race and we hit a little bit and these cars are bad about trying to ramp tires and it looked worse than what it was and I remember after the race, you know, me and him were of course not happy with one another and I remember getting a message from Kelly and

really? Yes, she sent me a message and I say yes ma'am. Yes ma'am, yeah. No s'b. Yep, I didn't know who it was. And of course I didn't have her number and but when I read the message I was no yeah that's interesting I didn't know that Yep, that's the first first interaction me and Kelly ever had so Josh and you Raced against each other a lot and and you know I've I've I've I remember Josh telling me how much he respected you and thought of your you know how much he looked up to your ability, how much he measured himself, I think, against you for, you know, probably the first half of his, you know, late model career.

Yeah. You know, I, um, we, y'all eventually figured out a way to, we did find some common ground. How did that happen? So my, uh, the guy to help me was Winston Brooks, my crew chief. And, uh, Josh ended up marrying Winston's daughter. Mm-hmm. And, you know, Winston and me are like this.

It's like we are just super close. We're close to this day. Like, he's like another dad to me, really. And so we, I think we both knew we had to figure this out. Like, how are we going? You might see each other more often now that Josh is married into the family. Yeah. And Winston was still helping on my car at the time, you know, and Josh was a part of the family.

So it was just, I think that was, and we both. tremendously respected to others' talent. Like, no matter what happened on track, we both knew that they were special what we could do. And so I think it was just a balance of knowing that, hey, we're not trying to put Winston on a bad spot because me and you were fighting our arguing every week on a racetrack. So I think it was more of a respect deal for Winston.

You won another national championship in 2017, but you raced mainly at Myrtle Beach, 15 wins down there. What made you want to drive all the way down there to race every weekend? Car count again. Really? Yeah, car count. So that was the time of the year.

It's so interesting in a four or five-year span, the car counts flowed and you chased them, right? I did. I went wherever the car is where. Yeah. So I was a long haul every week, but I had my, me and my wife had our daughter in 16, so I didn't race a ton in 16. Really? And that's, yeah, I think, like, I race. some don't mean wrong but not a ton because it was a lot of things going on yeah um and only only 12

wins that year yeah down year down year yeah yeah so uh so i didn't race much that year but um 17 i decided that i wanted to try to win another national and go in the best place to go with myrtle beach so that's how we ended up going down there and uh that was a special national title for me just because i had you know my little family with me you know traveling and it was cool because that place was tough and demanding and you know how hard it is on tires. And to win the national, I needed to win not only the first race, but I needed to be able to have enough tire to win the second race

because we run a lot of twin races. So it was cool times. Myrtle Beach was such a cool race track. I miss that place. Me too. After the 17 championship season, you would go to the Cars Tour. What was it about the cars tour that was interesting?

It's a touring series that runs a lot of different tracks, but it's a big breakaway in culture and travel and probably expense from racing weekly at the same place. Yeah, I think, you know, I was driving for Mr. Kiker. Mr. Kiker was sponsored me at the time, and he was interested in it too, just doing something different. And you'd kind of mastered the track championship, the national championship. You'd kind of, you'd rinse and repeat year after year.

Yep. And that was a way for us to do something different and have it fresh. So we got on a row. We were still like I had not built, like I was still mostly running that 2010 Hedgecock car. And then Mr. Kiker had, he did have a Marlowe car that I would run some. So we kind of bounced between those cars. we kind of found out pretty quick that we probably were probably a little bit under chasied because all the cars tour guys were building brand new stuff every year and we still had a

successful year we won at bristol we won at mirtle beach we finished sacking in the points like it was a good year um but it was definitely a little bit more challenging we were not used to some of the rules the rules were a lot more open than the nascar stuff uh the weekly stuff So a lot of information from down here was trickling into that Cars Tour. And we were probably a little bit behind at first when we come in there. Yeah. How would you compare that today with the rulebook of the Weekly Racer versus the Cars Tour rulebook? It's still quite a bit different.

There's pros and cons each way. The NASCAR Rule Book is too thick, honestly. and the Cars to a Rule Book used to probably be a little too thin. I think it's a pretty good balance at the Cars to a Rule Book now. It's just, the problem is, like, the shocks went so different on paths, and now it's going to be hard to merge that because the money's been spent. The money is spent. So somebody is going to take a tremendous loss.

Yeah. We allow a little different. shock in our series in the cars tour and to your point like it's it's not easy it's not a there's not an option for us to say hey we'll just do what the what the weekly series is doing because our guys have all this stuff inventory all this inventory on the shell and they're they're they would have to come to us which they maybe aren't interested in doing either because that'd cost them their team's money but yeah it's kind of something that was done years ago it's kind of had toothpaste out of the tube at this point.

But after that car's tour season in 2018, you decided to go back to South Boston. Yep. You're going for the track championship and you had an on-track incident with Philip Morris. Is this the one where the guy runs on the track, rips the damn wire and harness out of your car? He tried to, yeah. What happened? So me and Philip, you know, we were. Philip Morris, for everybody that's listening.

So I've got a connection to Philip Morris. Now, I don't know him personally, but he came in 1999 and bought a race car from DEI, one of the A.C. Delco cars. And this was car number five, all right? Car number five was a car that Tony Senior and Tony Jr. gave to me that I could go take and race as a sickens car at Michigan and a couple other places. And I loved it. In 1998, they decided to let me drive the AC Delco car, and they were going to get rid of car number five. They didn't need it.

It was like they didn't even want it in their fleet the year before, right? So it was a cast off to give it to me, and I begged them to keep it. And we would race it at Bristol. I'd run second to Hermie Sadler at Bristol, and we would end up eventually having some success before I crashed it off turn two, I think, at Darlington. But we ended up getting that car fixed and running it a little bit.

I loved it, but we sold it. They finally in 99 convinced me that it was too old and they didn't need it no more. And Philip bought it, I believe. Mm-hmm. And so he actually raced it at Rockingham. And I remember late in the race, him driving by me with that car. And I was like, damn, there goes number five. So one of the guys that works for me was Phillips' tire guy, his whole career.

Yep. And now he works for me and we've become friends. But he's told me that story. He's told me about how good it was at Rockingham, and he's told me about buying the car. So that's funny that you bring that up. But Philip was an incredible talent, too. Like, in my career, he was the toughest guy ever raced against.

Hands down, far none. Like, the toughest guy I ever raced against. Like, he would, one, you just never could figure him out. Like, he would run you hard and rough, but fair one week and then the next week he'd dump you and put you in a wall you know so it was just it was I never could quite figure him out but as we got older

we had that issue in 19 and you know he kind of moved me and I spun him getting into three and just kind of wrecked his car and Forrest was working was keeping up his stuff and at that time Forrest was

kind of, he was trying to prove that he was the man. And so it was, I think Forrest was just, he was frustrated because his car just, he's the one to come out there. He's the one to come out there. Yeah. Did you see him coming? Did they tell you, hey, what? Here he comes. Yeah, so I seen him when he gets, like, right there.

And he's coming to my window and then. And I remember Austin Thakston kind of rolled up beside me to kind of block him from getting into my window net. Because you're strapping these cars. Like, you're vulnerable. You're vulnerable. You don't know. if this guy, so he got a screwdriver, is he just like, you don't know.

So I remember when he had his radio and he got mad because Austin pulled up. So he slammed the radio in the windshield and he was about to jump in the right side of the car and I don't know what this guy's about to do. So I fired the car up and tried to get away from

him. Well, he kind of rolls off the side of the car, you know. And, you know, of course, it was a big video about it? Was he trying to yank the wire now, Hardness out of it? I don't really know. Which is a hell of an idea.

Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. I mean, you really want to get somebody. Yeah, but you don't know what that guy's going to do, right? Does he got, like I said, does he got a screwdriver? Oh, yeah. What is this guy about to do?

So I tried to just get out of there. I remember that being a big deal on social media. It was. It was, you know, I probably got some flack for that, but I'm like, what would you do in that situation? Oh, yeah. It's just wild. Yeah.

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As an owner. Yeah. Is that kind of when you decided that you're just going to change what you're doing in terms of driving oning cars? What was the basis of that decision? So 19. I come back home to Sal Boston. We had a good year. We didn't win a championship of none,

but we won the most races. It was a successful year. We won the 30,000 race at Orange County for the Cars Tour, which I think that was the only cars to a race I'd run that year. Me and Josh had a heck of a battle for the win and that thing. And at the end of that year, I was just kind of out of crossroads in life. You know, I was like, I don't know.

I've won these. cars to a races, one of these local races, and won these track championships. I'm robbing Peter to pay Paul to kind of keep things going at the house and family and stuff, and I got a daughter, I got a three-year-old daughter, and I'm just not, nobody's called. I'm just not going to, like, I didn't know what more I could do at that level. I'd been at that level for 10 years now, and it was the toughest thing I ever did in my life. Like it was trying not to be selfish because I was, where I'm at,

it's not a lot of possible employees to help work on cars and stuff. So I'm taking away from possible income I could be having by working on something and making a living and providing for my family. Or I can keep racing and just barely squeaking by. And that just wasn't fair to my daughter. and it wasn't fair to my wife and it wasn't really fair to any of them and I had had such a good career it was like that you know mr. kiker was paying for my racing but at the same token when I'm racing every week that leaves me hard to make a living very hard to make a living because

I'm working on the cars I'm setting the cars up um yeah so that was definitely tough for sure and But it was just what I needed to do. A lot of people like Corey Haim was driving for me, started driving for me. So let me get this straight. Do you have a shop? Yeah. So in 2014, 2014, I built a shop that I'm in now. And so you're going to take.

And I was already working on other people's cars. You already had cars in a shop. So my whole career that I race, basically. Like when I was winning all these races, I was also keeping up three to four other cars at the same time. And it was only me and one or two guys. So you can imagine the workload we had. But I was doing that. Like, I mean, I don't even know how I survived.

I didn't sleep much hardly. I wasn't at home much. But I had to do that to pay the bills to be able to afford to live. But I was also trying to race and work on my car. But so like when I was at the racetrack, just like at the Hamlin race in 14, I had I had Chase Elyt in a car, I had Dalton Sergeant in a car, I had GR Waldrop in a car, and I had me in a car. And it's me and one, we had me, Dave, and Chris at the time. So it was three of us. And we had four cars at the racetrack. So you know how much worked out. Oh, yeah. So like, the crazy part was I had all that success through them years, but I was working on other stuff way more than I worked on mine. Yeah. Like, mine was kind of always the last thing we would do. We had to take care of the customers first.

And at that point, at 19, my body is like, man, you can't do this no more. Like, you're going to have to cut back on something. Something's got to give. Something's got to give. But you have a foundation in place in terms of what the business would eventually become. Yeah. You got the race cars, the shop. So you start, you shift from driver to owner, Corey Hine,

other drivers would come in there, most notably Butterbean, and you would start driving, you know, taking cars to the cars to our races. You still got other cars that are racing at South Boston. You've got different points in this whole game in the last six years. You've got cars doing a little bit of everything. And I've watched you win races as an owner. I've watched your, you seem to be very, rewarded and fulfilled by what you went through with Butterbean, for example,

right, watching him become the driver. He was already a really good race car driver, and you helped him, you know, take the next step. And you watched him graduate, right, going up, do that thing that you never got to do. Yep. So is owning the cars fulfilling? It's not what I ever.

intended on doing in the sport. It is fulfilling. It is still passionate. I am so passionate about winning and the sport and helping mold people into what they want to be. But it's not driving. That was what driving got me into the sport. And driving is my, it is absolutely what I want to do. Like it is, like if I could drive every week and figure out how not

to sacrifice and lose. Yeah, financially. My family and hurt my family. That's what I would do. I mean, I would be driving race cars every single week. That's what I love. That's what I want to do. That's what I always wanted to do.

The moments that I built with those people, though, are so special, too. The moments I built with Corey Haim, the moments I built with butter bean, the moments I built with each of these different people. drivers along the way I had special times man and and it taught me a lot to like working on other people's cars taught me that the driver is a very critical piece of this puzzle because we could take the same cars to the track every week with the same setup same suspension same everything and we you know you have somebody special in it they're going to be competing for the win.

And you have somebody that's got some work to do, we're running 15th to 20th. And then we got the same stuff. So it really even opened my eyes up even more. Like when I was racing every week, I thought, oh, man, I got the secret set up. I got the secret. Like, I just doesn't hit on this. I don't hit on that. There's really no secrets in this racing game.

Like, it's about working hard, maximizing everything you can as a driver. You got to have good cars, no doubt. but the driver plays such an important part in it and I was fortunate enough to have some talented drivers come through and they made our cars look good even when I, you know, wasn't driving. And that was definitely critical. We had some years that we struggled too. And it was just all part of the process.

So I hadn't had a couple winless seasons there in that little stretch I wasn't driving and that was tough because I wasn't used to that. Yeah. I was used to win in a lot of races. That was the part that would eat at me at night because I would just work twice as hard. I'm like, man, if I worked just twice as hard, I'll get this lane back in Victor Lane. Yeah.

But no matter how hard I worked, I couldn't quite get there with it at times. And that was a little bit frustrating, but my passion never went away. It was just kind of rechanneled. And when I quit in 19, I just, I never thought it would go seven years, basically, with Harley driving. Really? I didn't. I felt like you had decided that you were done. I never imagined being done.

I felt like that you had found a way to accept it, I guess. That's what I told myself. Yeah, I'd see it to race track. That's what I keep telling myself. Dude, I'm a pretty damn good read of people, and I would see you at the racetrack and I didn't see. Yeah. that, you know, I didn't see it in your eyes. Yeah, I tried to hide it.

I really did. You got a chance to get back behind the wheel, and that kind of was brought on by Butterbean himself, actually getting his opportunity to move up. It was. And so they said, hey, man, I want you to run the Martinsville race. Yeah, it actually got led on. My dad got sick in 24, and he was in the hospital,

and, you know, he had a surgery, and things kind of got complicated in the surgery. And I made a deal with him there. I was like, at one time, it didn't look good. And I made a deal. I was like, Dad, if you'll fight right here and get better, I said, I will find the funds and we will go race together at Martinsville, promise. And dad pulled through and everything ended up, thankfully.

And so at that point, I knew I had to figure it out. And Butterbean knew my story and knew that. But so I was planning on reaching out to some different people to help me in the past to go run this race. And about that time, Butterbean got his deal, like you said. And I think we were, I don't know if we were at Ace or where we were. We might have been at Langley. I can't remember. I can't remember exactly.

But I remember after the race, Butterbean and his sponsor, Mr. Staten come up to him. And they were like, Lee, we want to tell you, Butterbeen's got the truck race at Kansas. and so I knew that Kansas was always falls on Martinsville weekend and I was like well dang that's great but I'm going to miss you driving at Martinsville I was planning on racing me and him racing together you know so I was tickled for him but on one hand I was like but I'll have to figure this all out and about that time they were like we want you to drive a three car at Martinsville and I was like really? He was like, yeah.

He's like, you don't have to worry about sponsorship. I got you. And we just, as much as you've worked for us and done for us, we want you to just go out there and have fun. And, man, it meant a lot, you know. It had meant a lot. And it had been six years since I run anything full time, well, five years. And four years since I had drove, period.

And I had kind of let myself go physically. Like I had gained weight. I wasn't in the best shape. And I think some of that was just because I didn't, like, I had drive to win, but I didn't have that drive that I had when I was racing. Like, I was taking care of my body and all that. So we go there and we get to race. And I remember me and Connor Hall battling for the win and the heat race.

And I thought, like, I'll add a little bit of the heat race. And it was just kind of surreal, really, that I had been away that long. I immediately went to competing. for the up front at Martinsville. I run top 10, almost the whole event. Failed a little bit at the end. Ended up 13th. And I remember after the race,

just that whole moment with my dad and sharing it, that was all just so special to me, you know, because he loved racing just as much as I did, you know. Like it was a passion of his and a thing that me and him shared together. Because, like I said, when I was a kid, we didn't spend a lot of time together because he was always going working. So it was probably what we spent the most time together doing.

And so the whole moment meant a lot to both of us. But the 13th place finish bothered me. Yeah. Bothered me like hell. Sure. You know, and like most people would be tickled to death to run 13th and marginally because so many cars don't even make it. But for me, man, it was like, golly,

I cannot have people thinking that I'm a 13th place driver now. And so I was like, I got to figure out how to do this again next year. So I didn't race at all for a whole other year. And about a month and a half before Martinsville, it hit me. I got to get back in shape. Like, I got to start working on this. So I started eating better.

I started working, started working out, running, biking, different things. And I still wasn't in the shape that I wanted to be when I was at Martinsville last year. But I was in a lot better shape than the year before. and I remember unloading off a trailer and went straight to the top of the board and practiced P1, led both practices, qualified second, just barely missed the pole. I got a little loose into one, and I remember just racing up front the whole race. And for me, I was always a racer where I tried to position myself for the end, take care of my equipment, and just position myself for when it mattered.

And I had said I wanted to take the lead with about 50. ago in my mind and I think I took it with like 49 to go and everything was working out great I was like man we this is everything's the car was great I mean it was it was perfect but it was good and I remember I took two to go and I had a 10 car length lead and I'm just right I'm lifting early just just just being smooth and I'm like golly I just got to get 18 seconds I just got to the white the white I get to the white it's done yeah yeah yeah and I dive off into turn one, and I see the caution lights. And I'm like, oh, no, because I know, you know how that race show.

Yeah. So we re-rack them, and we go green. And the first restart, well, the restart we had had like 15 laps prior to that, the 14 got a good enough launch with me that when we come down to backstretch, I kind of killed the zero. car out there and just kind of left him hanging. I didn't clear him. I left him hanging to make sure that 14 can get inside of him and get those guys

racing and then I could drive away. When this restart, the 14 didn't get going. And he had a bad restart. So when I come off of two, I'm in a predicament. Like, I can't really leave him hanging out there because the next car so far back, like. He's going to get to you. Yeah.

He's just going, it's where do you want it? Turn three? return one. So I cleared him down the back. And we get in a three and we're coming to the white and he moved me up to hill, which, Miss Martinsville, I would have done the same thing. That's why I didn't want to clear him. And so he moved me up the hill. We get down in the, get down the front stretch, I lead to the line on the top. We roll into one. And I'm thinking in my head as we're going in the front stretch. I'm always thinking about the next corner, no matter what. And we roll in there. I said, man, I'm going to

I'm going to get in here soft because I feel like he's going to run me up the hill here. And I said, when he runs me up to hill, I'm going to turn under him, and I'm going to be have positioned into three, and I'm going to win this race. We get into one, it kind of does exactly what I was expecting. I get the car pointing, and I'm about to come down the hill into 14 drives at the end deep. And I can feel the air pressure change. You know what it feels like when that car sticks and nose in there. So I had to completely bail on what I was going to do out of two.

So that messes my exit of two up because I've got this car position to come down the hill and get the wheel out of it. So now I've got to hold this 14 off. So I had to turn my focus on defense for a second. And I kind of slapped the 14 with the left rear to kind of break his momentum. But the problem is the zero had such a good run out of, two he put a pretty good gap on me down the straightaway the only mistake he made he entered three really low and gave me an opportunity to really arc the corner and and have a lot of momentum getting to

him and i got to his bumper and um of course you know i could have hit him harder because upon him whatever but i didn't want to race that way i uh i tried to knock him up the hill enough and um i turned under him the problem was when i kind of hit him um i didn't have enough weight on my rear tires and I just kind of, I was spinning the tires up off of four. And I was like, come on, bang. And so I tried to break his momentum, get in his door a little bit. And I ended up losing by a few inches. But it was a hell of a race.

And, I mean, the kid did nothing wrong. Like, he did exactly what I would have done. It was a lot of emotions at one time, though, because I was so close to going back to Victory Lane. Like, I hadn't won a race since 2019. Yeah. Because I hadn't hardly raced. Yeah.

And I almost just won at Martinsville. And so I was processing all of it. And when I jumped out the car, I'm like, I'm going to go congratulate him because he did a bad-to-the-bone job. Like he did exactly what he needed to do. So I remember going over there and give him a hug and told him he did a good job. And I remember his crew guy was kind of looking at me funny when I was going over there. Yeah, yeah. They weren't sure of my reaction, you know.

And so I remember all that too and just. I remember interviews and, you know, some of the questions I was asked, and I just remember hearing another team member when they asked a question, it's just where I stacked up and he had a response that made me emotional. And it kind of hit me. and what do you think it was what was the response uh they he just said i was the greatest of all the time and the guy that said it was a special one like it was phil warren son actually and uh so he carried some weight with me and um but yeah it just hit me the way he said it and the question that was

asked i can't remember exactly how it was i asked from weaver but um yeah it just hit me because I knew how special that moment was. I knew that that was something that I had missed so freaking much. Like I had missed the competitive side of outsmarting, like, not just driving, but in the car, I feel like I am always thinking. Like, I feel like that's why I was such a good racer. Like, I'm always thinking ahead in a race. I'm always thinking about the next corner.

I'm always thinking about where I want to position myself. And it was so good to feel all that again. It was so good to be sitting in that car and figuring out how to maximize my day and figuring out how to be better than that guy and better than that guy, better than that guy, and figuring out their weaknesses. And just the whole chess match is what I enjoy. It's, man, it is, I tell my drivers all the time, don't take this for granted.

Don't take it for granted. because it can all be gone like that. It can all be gone. And I just want them to enjoy it. I want them to realize how lucky they are because it was guys like me that would have gave anything to race race cars for a living. You know, anything.

Like that was my dream from being a little kid and the whole experience up to this weekend. and that journey that it's been to get there. That's why it meant so much to me. And that's why we had so much support from fans. That's why we had so much support from different sponsors. They could relate to it. They could relate to the blue-collar guy that did things the heart way.

And I think that your fan base has already been incredible. So to have Junior Nation behind me was super cool. but Junior Nation is hard to believe could grow any more than what it was, but it grew. It's continuing to grow, and people are appreciating the opportunity that you give guys like me. Well, I don't know if you'd have won that Martinsville race whether you'd have got it. Yeah.

I don't know. You know, I think back to like Brack Zalowski at Memphis getting spun out in that truck race, and if he wins that truck race, I don't know whether we end up working together. Justin Algarh kind of got chewed up and spit out in the cup deal and his opportunity at Penske and so forth. I don't know, man, I kind of see something in guys that I think is there and that I think that they could, you know, there's a diamond in the rough, so to speak.

But something about that. I knew your story and something about how I watch at Martinsville race and I was like, no, you know, no way that that's his, you know, you worked every, you worked as hard as you could to put yourself in position to win that race, but the universe didn't, yeah, that wasn't into plan. Yep. Whatever reason, right? And we don't always get the answers to why certain things go the way they go.

And hell, it's just competition. It's just racing. Yeah. But it matters. It matters. Yeah. And honestly, man, that race and you running second and you getting out and handling it the way you did and it was shining a light on you. And it, I mean, it compelled me to try to figure out a way for you to get an opportunity to know what it feels like to be at at least a rally level, right?

Yeah. And I'm like, hey, you know, let's figure this out. You know, we did. You were part of that. You know, I got with you and I said, hey, this is what we got to do. We got to find some support. We can do this much and we can find this much. And it was all, I think, feasible and realistic.

And we were able to, you know, start. We were able to commit to making it happen. And then you continue to work. work on your health and your physical fitness. We gave you all the sim time we could, which you took advantage of. You were not comfortable in the sim out of the gate with motion sickness and all that stuff. But what did you do? What did you do to instead of like, look, if I get in the sim, the motion sim, I don't love it.

Yeah. Some sessions, I'm all right. And the next session I'll get in and get sick. Yeah. Most guys, when they get experienced that, they're like, I can get back in that thing. I'll do the static rig over here, but I ain't going to do that motion rig. Let's figure it out. You're like, no, man, I need to do it.

And so you got these VR glasses and started putting yourself through a lot of personal training sessions on your own time so that when you would get in the SIM, you were better, less affected, I suppose, by the motion sickness. Like, who thinks to do those types of things? How did you even hear about that? Well, when I first went there and did it that first session, I threw up four times at Pratton Miller. I'd run outside and throw up, and it was all I could do to drive a car. God, buddy. But I would go out and I brought my bike with me because I had heard that whenever you throw up, you jump on a bike, it'll help you equilibrium, and then you can get back in there. So I would just make a circle in the parking lot.

I would run back in and jump in the machine because I know it cannot be cheap to be at Pratt & Miller. So I had multiple things going through my mind. I don't want to waste these guys' time. We got all these engineers here. I've got to get as much laps as I can in this thing because this is what we're going to unload with whatever I decide. So I would literally go throw up, jump a bike, run back in, get in.

I'd get about 15, 20 minutes. I'd have to throw up, do it back. in. So actually my crew chief and Reagan was like, we've heard that virtual reality glasses, you know, can help train you for that. And I was like, really? And I was like, yeah, because I didn't grow up playing video games. Sure. Because I was working. Every extra hour I had was spent working trying to make it in this sport. So video games were new to me. I didn't, I'd never done it. So I was researching and talk to Butterbean about it, you know, and trying to figure out things.

And I ended up getting this virtualality stuff, MetaQuest 3, I believe, is what it is. But anyhow, I got this boxing game because I'm trying to work out and I've lost 40 pounds of weight and I've put on muscle. And so I'm like, well, if I'm a video game, I want it to be something that's going to help me as well for the race car. So I'm boxing on this game all the time. And I don't think the glasses are working, right?

Like I remember the first time I took them off, I felt like a little funny, but I'm like, I don't know. I don't think this is going to help, but I'm going to keep doing it. So I kept doing it, and the next time I got an emotion rig, I was perfectly fine. I had zero issues. No shit. I never got out the car, did the full session. And I was like, that's amazing.

Like, I put a lot of time into those virtual reality glasses, but somewhere deep inside of me, I didn't know that. Maybe wasting time. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't. It was definitely worth it. I know how important it is to be able to see them. Well, I just think it's interesting to highlight how, like, you didn't, you didn't give up on the idea, right?

You just found a solution or you were willing to do something that felt somewhat monotonous or even foolish. You didn't give up on me, right? Yeah. Well. You didn't give up on me. You gave me an opportunity, and that's, to me, I want to show my appreciation by giving everything I can. got today I got here an hour early and I think every person that I could find in the shop yeah from the fab shop all the way around because I build race cars I know how much works

in them I know the time it takes to put a product on a racetrack like I drove this weekend and they are incredible race cars and the opportunity to do something here the opportunity to swipe this key card and be able to get in the shop is something I dream to do my entire life is something I wanted to do my entire life. It feels like home to me. And I just want everybody to know how appreciative I am. And I'm not going to give a half-ass effort. I mean, you're giving me the opportunity I always want it.

Why would I stop short? Yeah. No, that's not happening. You worked hard all through the whole process to be ready. And I told you, I said, man, you're going to get, you know the track, right? So when you pull out on a racetrack in this. and it's a rally car, you know, you're going to recognize everything. But, you know, you're sitting in a car that's going to accelerate differently.

It's going to have different. The tires are going to feel different. It's going to do all these brakes will be different. But I told you, I was like, three or four corners. It's going to all just like merge into, you know, it's all just going to start making sense. So your first, you've been in a sim. You ain't really drove the car ever. You didn't go to Rockinghammon Test or do none of that.

No. What was the first laps on the racetrack like? I want to know, I guess, before that, how excited were you to finally swing your leg over the door? It was a lot. Like, I remember when Flo was video and me swinging my leg over the door, and I looked at that video, and I kind of can see myself take a deep breath. Like, I can see myself because I'm mentally, like, outside of the race car, I was super emotional. Inside the race car, I'm locked in.

Oh, yeah. As soon as I get in, I'm locked. Oh, yeah. But I remember trying to take the moment in. I remember talking to all my teammates. I remember thanking my team. I remember looking around at the place and being in that venue and knowing what I was about to do. And I remember my leg being weak when I went to throw it over the door.

And after that, I was fine. But it was incredible. Like, it was all, like, the time was going by so fast. Like, I was trying to maximize every part of it from tech to the track walk to every part of it. And I knew that every moment was the next thing I was looking forward to, but also, I may not ever experience that moment again. There ain't no time to reflect. No. No, sir.

Because they got, the way they do the schedule, it's bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Yeah. And the day he's over and you're like, yeah. And I knew how fast it was coming by. So it was crazy. But I'll never forget this. We're at Homestead and I ran a race there against Josh probably,

I don't know, four years ago it seems like one of my little one-offs I did. No, this was, it was about four or five years. So I'm there and we go out and practice and we're like 14th or some, we're all right. And I get out of the car and I'm like, all right y'all i think this and that another and they're like you need to get back in i was like what you mean practice is over they're like you're second to go out and they're lining them up and i'm

like like like i'm like i got a you know how you need like a few minutes to think about qualifying this for just to get your mind wrapped around qualifying and i'm like damn i got to jump right in there and go right back out and now i'm going to have new tires taped off coal firing off it you know i'm just my mind was like and i was like this is like what timmy hill has to to live every week. Yeah. You know, I'm not locked in. I don't know how the hell this is going to go.

I don't know where to run. You know, there's all kinds of damn lines all over Homestead. But it was just like a bam-bam thing. And I was like, how in the hell is NASCAR doing it like this? Can a guy not get out and reflect for a minute? So for fans that wouldn't know, like our practice session, I'd never drove a car in my life. Right.

Our practice session was from 430 to 520. We got rain coming. So I'm going to get 50 minutes in something I've never done. And then we got practice over 520, qualifying starts at 5.30. It's 10 minutes. 10 minutes goes by like this. It takes you 10 minutes to get out the car and get back in the car. Exactly.

So like for you to meet a second to roll out, yeah. It was time to jump back in. So yeah, it's kind of hard to explain to people, but it rolls by quick. And it's, it's, I was trying to not let those moments flee, but at the same time, I was trying to be super locked in and focused on my race car. ready for what's next. Yeah. This is coming fast.

Yeah. And I felt good leading into qualifying, and then it started to rain. I was like, God. So, but I was lucky the nine car has run enough that we had solid points. So that was a blessing. But, but yeah, when I rolled out on the racetrack, I ended up, you know, I was trying to get heat into brakes and stuff like that. And I ended up rolling in behind Sheldon Creed.

And because I knew he was a good racer, you know, so like, like when he went by, I was like, that's a guy, I'll kind of... Let's see what we got. Let's see, yeah. So I remember running with him for like 20 laps and I actually ended up passing him. And I was like, well, we're going to be okay right here because he's a good racer. But so I felt pretty confident at that point. But the car, we had planned to make like a 60 lap run, but the first run out, I was too free.

Like to just needed to get more lateral grip in it. So we come in, we tightened it up and they had made a, you know, we'd, pulled a spring rubber or something out of the right rear and yeah it made a big difference so went back out there and I felt comfortable then

so it was it was a surreal experience though because like when you drive that sim it seems pretty difficult to drive yeah it's pretty difficult to drive but it definitely replicated very similar to how the race car felt

yes I agree I simmed at Bristol quite a lot over the last couple of years with our cars trying to go run races there and I was really, really impressed with how I was able to take everything I was learning in my mock runs and apply it perfectly to the mock run and qualifying, because that's really my weak point is qualifying, and the SIM was so, so helpful. And it helped us, too. They'd be like, here's Sam Mayer's setup. It's really good. All right, I like it. All right, we want to try a right

rear shot. Tell me what it does. Well, a little bit better drive off, more turn in the middle. Well, all right, we like that. Leave that on. And then you go. race it and you're like damn right it's fast it's so crazy yeah I told my guys I was like it's hard to believe that you can feel the shock changes like they put the shock on and it's like driving a real race car like you literally feel what it does it's crazy it ain't been like that long the sim wasn't very useful let's say six years ago yeah but now they're dialing it in that's the that's the O'Reilly sim which is you know the cups probably miles miles miles better.

But Saturday, I want to kind of fast forward to standing by the car. You know, you got the moments before we get in the race car when I go run, and this was the way it was, too, when I was a full-time driver, those are some of the harder moments. because you don't want to not take appreciation for everybody who's in your vicinity, right? But at the same time, you want nothing more than to climb in that car and kind of get away from everything. Because in the car, it's like you cut the landline. Nobody can reach you. You're in there by yourself. And it's finally time for you to relax and lock in.

and so the you know the the post driver intro sort of that little 20 minute window is a it's a strange time right yeah and but this was a this was a you know this was a little bit different for you my favorite you know you got a lot of people there that are partners friends people that have helped you get to this opportunity and you want to take opportunities to take photos and document today and and all of those things and we get through all of that process and And that's typical, typical stuff. My favorite, and I hate to take you here emotionally. Yeah. But because I know you're... I know where you're going. Listen, dude, I'm telling you, this was really cool. Yeah.

I'm a, I'm a girl dad. I got a little five and seven-year-old. Your daughter's around the same age. But she seems absolutely aware of what, you know, what she's, what's happening that day, what y'all are doing. I was watching her and trying to compare her to my child. And my girls go to the race, and they're still not sure what racing is, right?

They're not sure what we're doing there and why I'm in that car. You know, Daddy's out there in that car. He's out there? Where is he at? You know, why is he not in the camper? Where is he? And so my girls are still sort of a bit oblivious to some of the things. and we'll get there one day with them.

But, yeah. And I'm sure your daughter is a child at heart, but I'm telling you, man. It was a special moment. It was. We raced all day. We led laps. We had fun. You got to do all these great things.

And you got to experience the lows and the highs. You did it all. Yep. But the best moment of the day for me happened before the race ever started. Yeah. So I'm standing over the right front. She comes up to you, your wife and her are close by. they had been within, you know, within arm's reach for the last several minutes,

kind of hanging around, waiting, you know, allowing photos and other things to happen. And you waved her over or she comes over to you, right? Yeah. And y'all had a moment where you knelt down and gave her a hug. And she got emotional and you got emotional. Now, I understand why you got emotional. Yeah. Right.

But it was really profound for me to see your daughter recognize in that moment how important this was for you. what a what a what a what a cool i think what that's got to feel so good as a dad right forget the race forget how important this is in your life to be able to experience this one thing you got to feel so good as a dad to have a daughter that recognizes how important that was for you and how happy she was to see you get to do it that's what i saw i saw her emotional and thank you for and knowing my dad's getting ready to do something he's dreamed about. I have to imagine that you, y'all must have had some conversations leading up to this.

You must have shared with her. She knew how special it was. Yeah. And then you made it, you made it aware, you made her aware of it. And she was able to go there. And you know how much that mattered to her now that she knows and understands all this? and your wife sat on the pit box behind me the whole race and I knew the whole time she knew exactly how important

every single lap was we watched you come off turn four time over time time after time after time just soaking it in and just realizing how big a grin you had on your face you know but I thought that was of all the things that happened that day that embraced with her and how connected to the moment she was was impressive to me yeah she's um That's been really special because she's at an age where she understands how much it meant to me. She saw dad working.

She saw dad running up back and forth, running miles on the driveway and the farm. She saw me being like that 18-year-old kid, but I was her dad. You know, she saw that fire in me. And she, man, she's been like my biggest supporter and just. When we had the post race meeting Monday morning. Here? Yeah. The team meeting?

Yep. I'll tell you how where she is. When I left, she said, Daddy, you're not going to get in trouble, are you? And I said, I said, I said, I don't know, baby. I said, I think they were really impressed with my racing. I said, I'm probably going to be critiqued. on my restarts and I said I said but that's okay I said that's part of life I said I critique you on things and I said dad knows he needed to be better there and I said I'm gonna be

fine I said there to support me and have have reached out to me and told me hey I've done it before I've had this issue I said so I'll be fine but that's all she could think about that morning she did more bad to be in trouble at this meeting so she is so aware of the everything and she knows that I wanted to be perfect yeah she knows that how much it meant to me and she knows that disappoint like the disappointment I felt of making that mistake she knew she could feel that she knew that how much that had weighed on me that weekend like she knew that I had a great time and a great experience but that morning like she's just so aware so many things and three or four years ago she wouldn't have been so she's nine now and it's just kind of amazing to be at that point in life

but yeah when I gave her a hug I just told her this is why I never give up on your dreams and I said whatever you dream of you you fight for and you just never give up and so yeah yeah that was definitely a special time for me for sure um and you know something I'll never forget. Yeah. But what's been the conversations with your wife? She has to, you know, for all these years, she's had to sacrifice, handle business at home. You had to go do and go be and working on cars for decades.

Yeah. But I mean, she was over my shoulder that whole race right there in the dugout, you know. Yeah. Incredible support for sure. She, what was her, what was her opinion of the whole experience? She was as relieved as anybody that,

um, that the opportunity finally came. She, she knows how much it meant to me. She knows how tough it was for me not to drive race cars. She gets those in personal conversations that the rest of the world doesn't get, you know, and she knows that I always felt like I should have made it or should have,

you know, would have done well if I did make it. What's the house feel like today? Man, they are so proud and happy and just, yeah, it's, you know, she's. Do you feel like that you got to check a box? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Or did you turn the page and see a whole bunch of empty boxes that you've got to check still? It's still, it's still, I got both, right? Like, the thing for me is I feel like I can win.

win on that level. I feel like I can win races. So it was like I checked that box and I'm going forever be grateful for it. But now you want to taste. Yeah. It's it's a it's an addiction. You know, like you get you get in that thing and you know if you go out there and run 20th, you'd be like maybe I just ain't got it. But when you feel like you can win a race, you're like, I'd like to do this. 37 years old. Yeah. I mean, you fit You fit the Denny Hamlin mold. Kind of came from the same background. You've kind of got the same mentality,

probably the similar ability in terms of raw talent. You might be one of those guys. It's got eight really damn good years in the tank. I feel like I do. You know? I feel like I'm in the best shape of my life. I have trained hard. Like, I ain't seen abs in 20 years,

and here they are. They're coming back. Yeah. That's funny. I think when I get out of the race. I ain't never seen an ad. When I get out of the race car, then, like the other day, I was like,

man, well, sweating or nothing. Like, I was ready to go another 300 laps. Like, so for me, I feel like, yes, I got a lot in the tank. Like, I got to make, like, I know if I was to make something happen, I got to make it happen soon. Yeah. But I feel like I could win races and be very successful at this level. and give somebody a tremendous amount of effort

because I don't take it for granted. It's easy to, and it's not their fault, but it's easy to take it for granted when you're younger because maybe you've had the sponsor that kind of has been supporting you and you've got this path and this plan and it's all kind of worked out. and it's easy for those guys to take that for granted. Now, they don't all take it for granted. Don't get me wrong, but it would be a lot easier.

Oh, hell. I mean, in my first 10 years in the Cup series, I had no idea what I had in my fingertips. Yeah. You know, I didn't really understand exactly how lucky I was till toward the back. Yeah, and I get that. And that's, I feel like that's my strength for someone is because I've wanted it for so long. I had to go so long without it. And now I feel like, man, I have worked every part of the sport.

I have spotted. I have owned the cars. I have crew chiefed. I have driven. I have done the tires. There's no part of the sport. I have built the suspension. I put bodies on.

There's no part of the sport I haven't done. So I think that's a big strength of mine. Like I know that these people that are working on. our cars and spending the time in these cars out there. They're people that make us look good on TV. Like those people are what creates speed and opportunities for these drivers to have success. And I feel like that, you know, I've tried to go above and beyond on being, you know, being a part of the team and just working really hard on remembering everybody's names and just because it's personal. You don't want to just thank people.

You want to be personal with them. And I've made it a point to do that. And it's just there's not many times that you could find a driver with wisdom and a lot of experience that has a fire at my age. Because at this point, they're all getting burned out. And I don't think their talent level, like, Denny Hamlin has done a tremendous job of not being burnout. Staying in there. I know. He's an anomaly.

His talent is just as good or better than what it was 15 years ago. His drive to be great is as strong as it's ever been. And I think that's my strength is I went so long without it. My fire now is just rolling. My opinion is, you know, me and you had a conversation yesterday. What is next for Lee Pulliam? So nobody knows when. when the next phone call might come, if it might come,

we have, we can't sit here and plot a course or a path. We just, we can't, right? And that's not, that's not realistic for anybody. It took us 10 years to get Josh Barry into, you know, into a ride in the Xfinity series. And Carson Quappell happened a little, much, much quicker, you know, just by chance and happenstance. But two very similar dudes, uh, that had two different.

completely different paths to get in there. You've had an opportunity to race our car and J.R.M. is going to turn over stones and try to figure out opportunities to create more chances to do that. I think that, and I'm saying this publicly, which I've already told you, I think that there are truck teams,

there are O'Reilly teams that maybe have some inventory. It's very slim. but there is some inventory out there of a race or two where I'd consider a guy like you, just how the way that you have came into our building and the impact that you've had on the people that you've connected with here and how great of an experience it was for our team

to go to the racetrack with you, they love the emotion, they love the passion, they love how much it mattered to you, and it energized them. Yeah. You know, and I think other teams would benefit, you know, from that same experience.

You've got to, you know, if you've got a, you know, one of the top 15 or top 20 trucker or Raleigh teams out there that needs a little shot in the arm in terms of culture or some energy on the shop floor, that'd be a heck of an opportunity for them where not only are you getting something out of it, I think the team benefits from that experience as well. but I'm hoping and I'm hoping that the opportunities come. I really do. If they don't, you have a long runway in front of you to do basically about anything you won't. You would be a valuable asset in any race shop in just about any role.

Like if you truly, you know, setting the racing aside for a minute, you're 37 years old. You know you just told me you know the sport like the back of your hand You know every role you know how to manage people You know how to run a race team Like there's not a role in a shop like ours Or any O'Reilly or truck series team maybe even cup teams There's not a role in there that you wouldn't be able to find yourself in and be comfortable And so regardless of how many years you race

I think that a future in this sport in some capacity, even beyond our cars tour and late model stock ranks, I believe there's real potential there for you and huge value for whoever would give you that opportunity. I'm going to, as your friend, always encourage you, you know, to find opportunity and to seek opportunity. I know you probably enjoy where you live, you enjoy your farm. you've worked hard to have those things and you can you can have them you can have them

you know and a role in in whatever part of you know the motorsports world you want make a living doing it right um but uh we'll always be in your corner man it's um i appreciate it dude i've when when you raced against josh you were a competitor we admired you we respected you but you were a guy we wanted to beat. Josh told me that you were a good dude and that he respected you. And I assumed those same feelings because of my trust in Josh and what he sees and does out on the racetrack with you. And I'm thankful, you know, I didn't know that this would happen.

I couldn't have told you three years ago we'd be doing this, right? but whatever it's you know that that night at martinsville again i don't know if you'd have got that opportunity if you win that race yeah i really don't my wife said it best the other night she was like when we rode home from martinsville that night you were dejected and you know disappointed and he was like look what door opened from that and she said the other night when i was kicking myself for, you know, missing the shift and turning up cars because I know how much money and time that day is. She knew that I was beating myself up that night. And she was like, last September we rode home with the same feeling. She was like, you did incredible today. Like, you did what people

didn't, a lot of people didn't realize what you could do. And she was like, we've been here before. and she's like just trust the process. That's right. So she's been encouraging on that aspect of it and supportive. And that part means a lot because for me, I've always been critical of my mistakes more so than what I did right. And I just always wanted to be perfect and do the – and it's a difficult sport to be that way.

But I feel like it's the only way that you get better. You've got to critique yourself and be hard on yourself at times, but you also have got to move on from it and be confident at the next one that, hey, I'm going to kill it today. And that's the part. Like you can have your little feel sorry for yourself for a little bit, but it's time to roll along. I love that, man.

I'm telling you. It takes, she's a great example of what it takes to dig ourselves out of, of what it takes to dig ourselves out of some of them moments. Yeah. You got to have somebody in the, you know, riding in the car with you to tell you to get your head out of your ass, you know. That's right. And she's right. Like, you know, that Martinsville race opened a door.

What happened this past weekend will open a door. You don't know what's on the other side of it, but it's going to create opportunity. More people know who you are. than they did the week before. Yeah. And you're a better race car driver, a better person than you were a week before. All those, you know, all through that experience, you're better off now today. And certainly there's some benefit and some things in your future that are going to come from it.

And we'll just have to wait and see what that is. I know there's a lot of people that want to see you back on the racetrack in one of the top three NASCAR series very soon. They'll be asking us all the time when we're going to put Lee back in the car. I'm going to be hearing that last year. Oh, yeah. When are you going to put Lee back in the car? I know Folsom Fence Supply was a big supporter of what you did. Jerky boys got an opportunity to ride on board.

You know, BRC. You got a lot of partners that have helped you create an opportunity like this that are still with you today and supporting everything you do. Yeah. No, those guys are awesome. Carolina drilling was on it and just. Yeah, it was a special deal. You brought several of them through the shop. Man, it was great to meet them.

Great to hear their energy and excitement around racing, around you. Yeah. And they're racers. They are racers. They are racers. So that was a lot of fun, man. It was a great experience. It went as smooth as I could hope it could go.

But what I really was thankful for, so if I can be frank for me, I called Kelly up in LW and everybody and I said, y'all, I want to do this. I want to run this race. I won't lead you to drive the car. Nobody said, no, nobody said, why. Everybody just said, all right, what you want to do? We'll figure it out. Like I was waiting on the, well, tell us why, or let me tell you all the reasons why we shouldn't do that, right?

I mean, there's all kinds of, you know, financial repercussions or what have you, right? nobody ever said anything um and one of my favorite things about it was philip our crew chief your crew chief for the weekend he enjoyed this more than he could have imagined and he speaks for big mike all of you know you pick a employee out of that shop right there not just the guys that went to the racetrack with the nine car. Even the guys on the other team are probably looking over there going, damn, that's cool. I've got text messages from people all over the motorsports spectrum,

world outlaws, whatever, you name it, telling me how they didn't even know who Lee was. And man, they loved what he's doing. They love what he did. And so, you know, you came in here, great attitude, worked hard. Our guys enjoyed every minute of it. And they loved having that opportunity to go to the racetrack and be a part of that. Yeah.

And be a part of that team with you. So, dude, we'll see what's next. All right. Yeah, I appreciate it. We're going to work hard. We'll be in your corner supporting anything and everything we can do. It's been a pleasure, man. Same here.

Where am I going to see you in Nashville in a couple weeks? Yeah, I, I, um. You're going to send you race car to the car's tour, without you? I'll be there with Carson Brown. So, yeah, no, I'll be there. I'll be at South Boston this weekend. Damn.

You racing? No. We're kind of a little bit behind the race shop right now. We actually blew an engine up last week. So I'll be catching up a little bit. I saw that. Yeah. Well, I can't wait.

I mean, I'll probably talk to you to see you before then, but I can't wait to go to Nashville. Yeah, I'm ready. Man, I hope so. Yeah. I need a good time behind the wheel. You put the pressure on. Whatever I can help you with.

about. Yeah. All right, buddy. We pull him on the Dell Junior Download. Yeah, that was fun. I've, I've not done a deep dive into Lee's career,

and that was so much fun to get, we got to a point where it's like, you know, obnoxious how many races this guy was winning every year. And I thought that was fun to drive home to the, to the listener who's probably like, you know, I know this guy was good and he got this shot to run no rally car this

weekend, but now you know, Like, this guy was out there winning an ungodly amount of races year after year after year, just going to any track he wanted to and just dominating. They must have been pretty disappointed and dejected when they would see Lee Pulley and pull into the motor mile after racing at South Boston one year and he shows up at the first race at Motor Mile

and they're like, damn. Is he going to be here every week? But the dude, I mean, you don't go win, 15, 20 races a year at the same racetrack, you know, year after year. But he's one of those guys, you know, we talk about Butch Lenley, he won 500 short track races or some shit. Larry Phillips won an ungodly amount of short track races. Ralph Earnhardt won some 400, 500 races in his time.

There's all these guys that in certain decades were just, you know, just winning everything. And Lee was that guy for a little, you know, window of five to six years there. He was a guy. And so if there's a list of names that should have gotten an opportunity that never did, his name's got to be near the top. And, you know, I'm glad he got a chance to drive the car this weekend.

I'm glad I got a chance to say, hey, man, I know what that experience is like. I know what a weekend is like for these guys. I know what they go through. I know what they feel. I know the emotions. I know the nerves. I know the anticipation, all those things, right? He can only imagine before.

Now he has a real understanding, and he's probably got a real appreciation for it, having been on the sidelines all these years. And we'll see what happens going forward, but he certainly deserves more opportunity. And it's one of them things where, where it's kind of like, hey, he's a, you know, he's a guy that honestly I feel like does have a, you know, a solid eight-year runway where he could go somewhere and be a very competitive, successful driver, at least at the truck or O'Reilly level for a team. So, you know, just don't know how many opportunities there are out there for a guy that can't really bring much funding.

because, you know, he's got some help and some support, but not the full season, not the big ticket. A lot of teams, I mean, there's, you know, I think it would be fun one day to sit down and do a spreadsheet of truck O'Reilly and go, yep, what's the level of funding the driver is bringing to this operation? You know, because it's more prevalent throughout the series than maybe we even realize. right and Lee's not a guy that it's going to be able to bring a giant amount of funding

or a large sum of funding to get himself that type of opportunity but man just fun to talk to him fun to learn about his career and now I think hopefully people that didn't know Lee know him a a whole lot better and you can follow you know he's going to be doing something as an owner as a driver you can you know if you want to you know pull for Lee you'll have the these outlets and opportunities in the next several years as he continues to compete. But that was a fun conversation. Thank you, Lee, for joining us here in the Arby's studio. Don't forget about Arby's new meat in three bucks.

You get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meats. We'll see you Thursday. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.