The Dale Jr. Download - Jack Sprague: Why I Hid After Retirement

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr. welcomes NASCAR Truck Series pioneer Jack Sprague to the studio to learn about his humble beginnings in Michigan, and his path to becoming a NASCAR Hall of Fame nominee. After getting his start out of his uncle’s junkyard and racing street stocks in Southwest Michigan, Jack found his way into the world of late model racing, eventually taking a job at Port City Racecars. Through the help of his mother and stepfather, Jack made the move to North Carolina and began working with short track fixtures Jay Hedgecock and Rober Hamke while getting his feet planted in the scene. Hamke proved to be a great influence on Jack and taught him about setting up cars and racing technique, leading him to become one of the most successful racers at Concord Speedway and in the Big 10 Series. Later on, Jack became acquainted with Rick Hendrick and became a NASCAR Truck Series regular. His first truck ride came through Pee Wee Griffin, after Gary Balough was incarcerated, and he set out on the 1995 Truck schedule with a shoestring budget. Jack explains how a chance encounter with Hendrick and Tom Cruise at an afternoon test session years before, led to a favor being called in with Hendrick Motorsports to drive the famed 24 Truck. Once in the 24, Jack established one of the most prolific stints in Truck history, winning three championships and 28 races. Dale and Jack discuss his venture into the Xfinity and Cup Series, the struggle of stepping away from the sport, his rivalries over the years and, becoming a Hall of Fame nominee.Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Dale Jr Download merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When you got done driving, what did you go do? Hid. Why? Following is a production of Dirtymoe Media. So, Jack Sprag is, uh, man, I'm gonna tell y'all. I'm gonna talk to this about him. This guy dominated the super late model scene at Concord Speedway in a series. He did the local racing there, but also what they

had was the Big Ten series where they would run 10 races throughout the year and they paid a lot extra money and it drew in a lot of people from around the country to come try to win this money. And man, he dominated so much so that he had stereotyped himself as a Concord super late model winner. They nicknamed him one track Jack. I'm serious. And he goes into the Xfinity series and kind of could. didn't get any traction.

And they said, yeah, it's only because he can race at Concord. It's only because he got that car that wins at Concord, and that's all he can do. Well, he finally dispelled that rumor as he gets into the truck series and has an incredible career. And now he's in the conversations around being a nomination, nominated for the Hall of Fame. I grew up racing at Concord. I went there in the 90s, early early 90s, right when Jack was finishing up his sort of time as one of the one of the dominant drivers at that race track. So I've got this real fascination for that part of his career,

want to learn about him, what he's been up to, and maybe we'll learn something really cool and new. So let's get started, bring Jack Sprague into the studio on the Dale Jr. Downland. Yeah, for whatever, what we have left. What we have left. Yeah. I don't remember at all either.

I know. I've been looking forward to you coming here. And the reason why, obviously, you've had a. hell the career and want to talk to you about, you know, being discussed and tossed around in the conversation for Hall of Fame. I wanted to say that to the end. Everybody looks at kind of the environment they grew up in and spent time in the racing bubble differently. But the way I looked at it was you came from that Big Ten or super late model sort of bubble that was out there at Concourse Speedway.

I want to learn more, but that's what I remember. That's where I remember you, you know, that's kind of where you rooted out of the ground in terms of your, you know, success, notoriety and how you, how you got traction to get to where you got to go in the Cup series or the truck series at least. And I grew up around that, right? I raced a little street stock car there and it was going, yeah, and I was going, yeah, And I was going to that track as a little kid before I knew what was going on. Now that things have changed over the years, people come from everywhere.

People come from all over the country to be a part of our sport. And they did back then, too, to an extent. But a lot of people came out of that same little pipeline, you know, that you did. So I want to talk a lot about the Concord experience. But first off, you know, You're not from North Carolina. I'm not. Where are you from?

Grand Haven, Michigan, Spring Lake Michigan area, just north of Grand Rapids. What was your childhood like up there? It was good. I mean, my dad always has something to do with cars, car laws, body shops, and I would work there. And my uncle in the junkyard was where my first race car came from. A lot of people that got into racing were connected to junkyard one way or another. That's a common. common

sort of piece to a lot of stories. Yeah. Basically, my first deal was a demolition derby. Yeah.

Got it out of the junkyard destroyed the car. The motor still ran, so I went and got another car, a 74 Malibu, big car. Put that motor in it

and Star Street Stock racing at Thunderbird and Winston. Yeah. So when you're, is your dad, is your family race? No.

My stepdad was just really into it. He was a fan. He was a fan. And my uncle that on the junkyard, his brother, his kids raced on dirt at those two racetracks. So it seemed like the thing to do. So this is dirt? Yes, it was dirt. Yeah.

What was your performance like? When did you start having success? I think I started at the end of 81. Pretty sure. And like four races to go. Didn't win anything. Set the track record that stood for five years. Don't even know how I did that.

Damn. And then the following year, raced those two racetracks also, and finished second to points of Thunderbird and won the championship at Winston and won a bunch of races. I don't remember how many. Yeah.

Your street stock car. Yeah, street stock car. All right. You ran the street stock car for a year or two? I think two. Yeah. I know one. Then I went to,

got a car, went to asphalt, Berlin, Kalamazoo. My stepdad was pushing me to get to the asphalt. and I didn't win a lot of races. Did you have a good relationship with your stepdad? I did. Yeah. I did.

He got me here. I mean, he started this whole snowball effect. Yeah. Y'all got along well. Yeah, for the most part. I mean, it's like even if he was my dad, we wouldn't have got along on different. You know what I mean? For sure.

So between him and my mom, yeah, they pushed the button pretty hard. Yeah. So you get into the asphalt stuff. Do you remember where you got the car? Well, we bought a used one first. It ended up being not too good. And then the second one we got for the asphalt, I think in the same year,

we got a chassis from Johnny Benson's dad and put all the stuff off the car that wasn't so good onto that car. And it was okay. I mean, it wasn't nothing spectacular. Then the following year, my dad, stepdad, deal with him was, I'll buy the car, you buy the motor.

So we bought a brand new Port City car. Damn. Yeah, it was nice. Yeah. It was nice. So you had to buy the motor? I had to buy the motor. What were you doing for work?

Body shop. So it was one of them deals. The more you did, the more you made. Yeah. So I'd work. You worked on commission. Yeah. I'd work my butt off and get enough to buy it.

Damn. Then it blew up five weeks in a row. About put me out of business. The car was fine. But, yeah, did that. I think I was on the Asheville up there for two years and moved here. How does it happen? How do you move here?

I know you're, I guess your stepfather and mother visited. They visited. What were they? I don't know. I didn't know what the hell they were doing, but they came down here in the summer of 86 on vacation. To what part? Around here, High Point, here. Damn, nobody comes here for vacation.

They weren't coming for vacation. That's what they told us. They were looking for me a place to go. So somehow they ran into Dickie Lynnville in Kernersville. I have no clue how I think they said a laundromat or something. Yeah. And he's a race. sir.

Yep, Dickie Lynnville, John Paul. Yep. And they got to talk, and then long story short, they said, if he can get a job and get down here, he's welcome to work out of my shop with his car. He had a big shop. Yeah. Yeah. So we went everywhere. I went Samars, went to Richard Petty's.

We went to Des. What do you mean? Looking for a job. Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Okay, so then in the fall of 86, they bring me back with my then girlfriend. Yep. We went all over trying to find a job.

I couldn't find a job. They just wouldn't hire anybody. It wasn't from here. So you walk into where? Sam Ards. Sam Ards. Where was Sam's place at? He was out in the country and it was, it was small.

Yeah. It was, like, take what your dad used to have that building. He's an intimidating dude, too. Yeah, he don't say a whole lot. No. No. So what your dad's shop used to be there, the little shop, it was like half that. Yes.

Like, man, all these guys do it. Right. Watch them on TV and they're winning races. Yeah. Went to Richard Petty's. Dennis Frings. You walk in there and you're what are you scared to death. Yeah.

Asked for a job. What could they say like, what can you do? Yeah. I mean, I worked at Port City so I could fabricate. Oh, you did? You had been working at Port City? Yep. In Michigan for a year or two.

So then went to, ended up at Jay Hedgecox. Yes. And he's the only one that's, sure, I'll give you a job. Yeah. So we found a house to rent, went back home and actually landed here on February the 14th and 87. and it was not a nice part of town in High Point. So I knew I was going to race the Concord,

so I was trying to stay as close as I could. That wasn't close, close, but it was close enough. Rented a house for $3.50 a month. I was bringing home $198 a week. Damn. It was tough. We'd literally go to the grocery store with calculator, literally. Who's with you?

My girlfriend ended up being my first wife, Yeah. Ronda, her and I and our dog moved here. And luckily, so Concord, the Big Ten races, they started in March. March, April, it's once a month. Well, they run two Big Tens before a weekly racing starts. So I went to the first Big Ten out of Dickey Shop. Whose car?

You still got your Port City car? I came here with my Port City car with an open trailer, pulling it with a six-cylinder Ford truck. Yep. It was rough. Didn't know it was rough, but it was rough. and actually had to borrow $2,500 from my grandmother and my $2,500 from my uncle to even get here. Yeah.

And went to the first big 10 race. I don't know what. They all pay between $5 and $10,000, but it paid $1,000 for $10. I finished 10th. So I spent $800 on tires and $200 on pit passes. It was just her and I. Yeah. No help.

Passes were expensive. Yeah, but tires weren't luckily. Yeah. So I made my grand back. I'm like, all right, I can go again. same thing next time finish ninth go again but the second big 10 race um Kevin Hamlin was there and I'm not sure why he he worked for Butch Miller way back in the day and so I knew him and he walks up with this this guy and his wife and it was hamkey so we start talking and Kevin's like

you need to hire him he said he needs he he works he builds the kind of cars you want to build at Hedgecox it was all late mile stock stuff stealing tears steel body, weld everything, and I hated it. I hated it. Bobby Levani worked there, Gene Dee Hart. Really? Yeah, way back in the day. Bobby was racing Carraway. Yep. But I just hated them cars. Yeah. I liked the super late model aluminum material, fiberglass bodies. I mean, and that's what Robert was going to do. He came here from Miami. He was a howe dealer, and he built super late model cars. Yeah. Long story short, he hired me. Two days later, he comes to High Point with his enclosed race trailer. Loads me up.

loads us up. Off to Canapolis, we go and we run a house for $2.65 a month. It was just redone in the air condition. That's tough down here. Yeah. He helped me, he set it up, and through time explained to me and taught me how to set him up, taught me how to race, taught me everything. And we went to the first week of the race, and we won it. And Ernie Irvin ran there, and we beat him. Yeah. I'm like, oh, this is cool. Stuff can drive okay. So we just got better and better and won the championship that year and the Big Ten championship in 87. What was working at Hamkees like? Robert Hamkey is a very famed, I mean, today, this guy's legacy is massive.

Specifically here because he was located so close to Concord. But he's been built, you know, the Hamkey cars have been around forever. Since that day. Yeah. In 88. All right. So, you know, what was that like? Knowing, you know, knowing all the history now, when you go back and you think about how you were there for the start, you know, what was it like back then?

We were good for each other. We just didn't know it. Yeah. Because he helped me win, which sold race cars. Yep. So, man, we just started building more and more cars and it got to be to the point where between fixing wrecks from people and still people that were his customers in Florida and my. Miami would bring their cars up here to get them fixed if they wrecked. So they'd wrecked Saturday night, Monday morning you pull in there to be two trailers

with car wrecked cars in them. Expecting that. Yeah, and there was three of us working there. Myself, his son, Robbie, and Mark Ketterman. So we're trying to build cars. We're trying to fix cars, and the list is getting longer. But there was no time to think about anything. You just had to do it.

Let's talk about Concord. The Fur family and Mr. Fur that owned or managed the racetrack was, the same one that managed Metrolina, and so he had a lot of equity and trust and history built up in what he was doing. And I remember my, I'm sure you ran into my grandfather, Robert G. over there a few times because he would sit in the suite every Saturday night with Henry Fur,

and they'd watch the races together and shoot a shit and drink. but I paint the scene for us because what I think a lot of people maybe that are listening and don't understand is how prolific I think the Concord Super Late Model and Big Ten scene was and how closely NASCAR industry people were paying attention to the people that ran in those races. So certainly people were looking outside of that little bubble in North Carolina for talent. Jeff Bedine comes down from up north, and I mean, there's a lot of different ways to get into this sport. But I just remember, and maybe it was just because I was there a lot, but I just remember, like, when I was around, like, Dad's team or Tony's Jr., Tony Sr.,

and those guys on the Xfinity team in that Xfinity garage. Everybody knew who was racing at Concord. Everybody knew who was winning over there. Everybody knew who was running the Big Ten races and winning the Big Ten races. Did you realize, I guess, at the time? No, not at the time, but as time went on and I realized that there was a lot of eyes

on Concord and more speed. Sure was. I mean, again, it was track second to none. It was right here in the middle of everything. Everybody was watching it, but I didn't know it. Nobody knew it. You're just trying to survive and race and make it to the next week. Yeah.

So, but as it turned out, absolutely, there was, there was a lot of eyes on it. How did, how did you get yourself those opportunities to run with CC and those guys, the White 34? So I was working, this was right after this point in time, but I went over at, I'm over at Allison Brothers working on their legends car stuff when I was 16. And they had one of the CC cars. sitting out back that had your name on the roof. And that's where it needed to be. But like how are you creating those opportunities for yourself off of the success you're having at Concord?

So in 87 I drove my car. At the end of 87, I sold that car to Willie Henson for $20,000 a lot of the motor, and I thought I was a millionaire. Yeah. Because Robert wanted me to drive his house car in 88. So we did that. I wasn't comfortable.

with that for the simple reason the car he had a lot of guys have success in him i just for me it wasn't what i liked what did you like um well i wasn't sure but i knew that that i liked my old car better what was the specific things about the suspension or something um so his car he was a howe dealer his car was a how car now it may just depend we didn't know what to heck to do to it to make me happy so i decided i'm going to have my own car again so i bought a brand new car and uh You bought a car from where? Michigan. Yep.

You're working there? I'm working at Hamkeys. And bought a car from another... It got touchy. Yeah. So... How did it get touchy? First I called Port City.

I called Harley and said, hey, will you sell me a car? You knew you were messing around. You knew you were... I wanted to win. But you knew this could blow up in your face? It did for a little bit. So he says, I need to think about that because I didn't really leave there on great turns, Port City.

Daniel. But... What happened? I wasn't there very long, maybe a year. Nothing really happened. It just, I wasn't very comfortable there. Seems like it was something really stupid. So I wanted to put my car on the jig at the end of the year up there and see if it was all right.

See if it was straight. And I told myself, if he tells me, no, I'm walking out of here. He's just a hard hill. So I asked him. He said no, so I walked out. I got you. But I'd moved shortly there after. there wasn't really bad blood between us, I don't think,

but it wasn't warm and fuzzy either. Sure. So he called me the next day, he called me back at Robbers, you know, and said, I just don't feel comfortable doing that. You're working for Hamkey down there, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, okay. Do you think he was worried?

You might take the car and put it on Hamkey's jig? Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, right. I'm sure he was. There you go. All right. I imagine you're sitting there at some point and you're like, all right, I'm winning all this, you know, this stuff here at Concord,

and I'm doing, I got this. and you're watching guys that maybe you raced with race on Saturday in the Xfinity cars and stuff back in the Bush days or whatever and when are you starting to like try to figure out how to create your own opportunities there well I think the that first sportsman race at Charlotte helped so the sportsman series kicked off at Charlotte yep when you heard about that what did you think well Robert and I both liked it of course I couldn't afford to do it so he did it you know he bought the car I think yeah him and Donnie Allen Elson, Bobby Elson, they're all buddies.

I think it was an old Donny Ellison Bush car. I think it was. And had prototype build a brand new motor for it. And Robert's friend, Tommy Model, he bought the motor. He was involved with Robert through this race and all this time here and there. And went out there and ran that race. And I think that's what probably... That did more for you than...

I think it added to it. Anything? Yeah, added to it. Because it was a big track. It was a big car. and we won the thing and they tear me down and Jerry Cook you know he's CC in the heads

and says they're two CCC's too small I mean we paid prototype to build a brand new motor prospect for that race and he wasn't going to lift on it and I had a big 10 race that night so I had to go from Charlotte to there and I'm sitting there and finally he throws us out I grabbed the trophy

I hauled ass I still got it I know all yeah I won that race I don't care what they say Yeah. So I went to Concord that night and was fortunate enough to win the Big Ten race that night. But that stung a little. I mean, two Cs. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it. Yeah.

When do you feel like you kind of finally moved on from late model racing? How long did you keep the late model? I kept it. Really? I kept a late model until I got the truck deal. Really? Yeah. And the whole truck thing, that was a total fluke.

How that started. So the truck series starts their inaugural season in 95. One thing I remember of that first half of the 90s, everybody knew that you kicked everybody's ass anytime you wanted to at Concord Motor Speedway. You would get these opportunities sporadically to race in the Xfinity series and nothing was working. Nothing was working. How frustrated were you at that point? Or, I mean, are you frustrated at all?

Oh, yeah, extremely. I almost resolved to the fact that I'm just going to run my late model. I'm having a good time. I could win enough to make money. Yeah. Were you going to keep building chassis and working with Robert at Hamkeys? I worked with Robert until I got the 35 truck and I actually got it there. I mean, had you not ever made it to the truck series in the 95 season?

I may have still been racing may have still been building late models and racing them I mean that was you know you're so busy there's nothing wrong with that I just

wrong with it yeah I mean I mean I'll be honest I guess this is a good question for you my favorite time in my life around racing was my experience racing late models

in the 90s yeah it was great time I had I had good times in the Xfinity series I had good times in the cup series, but the pressure and the grind. Everybody there's also under that same pressure and grind.

Everybody's got a microscope on you. Yeah, I know. At the late model ranks, man, everybody is there because they want to be. Plus, you own your own stuff. They ain't got nobody to yell at you. Yeah. The truck series starts up. I think we all were kind of paying attention to the truck series. It started up with very few amount of trucks. Everybody, I think I was kind of sitting there wondering really how Bible that would be, if it would really get. get off the ground and get going, which it did, became fantastic. But who knew?

Did you get a truck ride the very first initial year? So Robert was also friends with Bruce Griffin, Peewee Griffin, out of Florida. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so we're up there. He's got his truck at our shop. And I'm putting crush panels in it and everything to go to the first race at Phoenix, and they'd run the winter heat with Gary Blue.

So Gary Blue was supposed to drive this truck. Well, Pee, he walks in there one day, because when he'd bring the truck, he'd just go to a hotel for a week or whatever. And he walks in there, and him and Robert have been talking. He says, hey, he said, you want to drive this truck?

I said, what do you mean? I thought Blue was driving it. Well, he got in little trouble. Sure, why not? Yeah. So this is Blue's second stint. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so why not? Yeah, we'll do it. So have you read Balloo's book? I have not. You got to read that book. It's so crazy. Were you aware that Pee-Wee and those guys and all them had been doing some nefarious things? Oh, I heard a lot of stories.

Right. I heard a lot of them from Pee-Wy himself as I was driving for him. What talked to me about him? What kind of character was Pee-Wy? He was pretty cool, dude. I mean, he definitely had a different outlook on things. that I did. That's not a concern of yours at this point in your life.

You're thinking, hell, yeah, I'll drive this truck. Whatever, right? So Bill Broderick was the handler. Bill Broderick, the Victory Lane guy? Yeah, Union 76 guy from Victory Lane with a beard. Yep, he was the one that dealt between us and peeweed as far as getting the money. What the hell? Yeah, what a character.

Yeah. So it was pretty interesting. Yeah. So it was myself, my brother Jason, Tommy Boyle, and Joe Faganers, four of us. We don't fly nowhere, dude. First, starter 95, we were to the West Coast for five weeks. I just had a baby in October.

Yeah. I was gone five weeks. We all were. And King of the Road all the way, 48-foot feather-light trailer. Yeah. Yeah. With a truck. Yeah.

That season, that first season in the NASCAR truck series, was literally all on the West Coast. Mm-hmm. So how did all that go? It went well. The first race was Phoenix. I think we ran sixth. And I was like, okay.

And again, we're doing this. We don't know what we're doing. Yeah. We have no clue. We're running against children's stuff, Hendrick stuff, you know, Rauch stuff, and we're doing it. Yeah. So we ended up that swing.

I don't remember where we finished and all that, but by the time we got toward the end of the season, the money quit coming, and the 20 grand I sold my late model for, I've used paying these guys and buying touch. I'm broke. Money's not coming. Literally would use the paycheck from the previous race to buy tires for the next one. I'd heard when that Rick was bringing the truck deal back in the house. So at this point, where was Rick's truck deal? Billy Hess ran it. Billy Hess ran it. He had Billy run the truck deal.

Scott Legacy drove a DuPont sponsor first year. Well, Dennis Connor was going to the racetrack with them taking care of the motors for Rick. But he was going to be the crew chief on the new program bringing it back he started talking to me and i really didn't know who he was and we got to be buddies and he's like i'm trying to get you in this deal i'm like oh there's no way right yeah no way i mean but we've come this far we're fifth in points yeah against these guys and we're not i mean we really ain't have a lot to work with yeah so as time goes on i'm going to back up a minute So back in 89, I'm winning all them races at Concord. Jimmy Johnson calls me from Motorsports, not the driver, the guy that ran it.

Yep, from Hendon Motorsports. Yep. So we had built Rick, a super late model the year before. Tony Fur had something to do with it. We had something to do with it. It was a clone Levi Garrett super late model. He took out the Riverside to run in the ASA or gets... Yeah, and he used it to play.

Yep. He'd use it to play at Concord. He'd rent the track. Yeah. So Jimmy Johnson calls me because I knew him because of the deal and with Robert in his car. There used to be, I want to clear this up for the listeners, there used to be a Jimmy Johnson that ran Motorsports,

at Hendrick Motorsports, an older fella. Yep, yeah, wasn't older then, but... Yeah. So I knew him, and he called me one day and says, hey, he said, Rick's Renton Concord, Wednesday or whatever day it was. He said, but he's got a buddy that wants a car to drive and they want to play. Would you be willing to do that? And I'm thinking, oh, I said, Jimmy, this is all I own.

in this world that's worth anything. I said, I'm leading the points. I have to race Saturday. He said, it'll be all right. He said, I promise you, if something happens, it's going to be all right. Yeah. And I'm sitting there sweating. I'm like, how do you say no?

No. I almost, dude, I almost said no. I said, okay. Tells me what time to be there. My brother and I take the car over there, Jason, and unload it beside them. Rick ain't there yet. Nobody's there yet. Rick shows up. Nice could be like always. This limousine pulls up. I'm like, what the hell's going on here? Door opens, here steps out, Tom Cruise. And then here comes all legs, Nicole Kidman.

Oh. I'm like, holy shit. It's big. So they go out there and play, and Rick, I knew could drive. I mean, he's a pretty good driver. So could Tom. Really? Oh, yeah. Really good. I mean, they weren't three, four, tenths off what I'd run in. Bulls. Yeah. That's not bad. Yeah, half second at the most.

So they play all day. And finally, if you remember the super late models, I mean, you got a place to sit. Then you got this nice aluminum interior. There's nothing over there except X bar. That's right. There's nowhere to sit. There is nowhere to sit. Well, she decides she wants a ride.

Nicole does. She puts helmet on. They're nothing over there. She sits in there on top of that X bar. bar digging her heels into my aluminum my stuff was nice oh yeah and it was driving me nuts i'm like oh maudy she's scratching my shit up she's got her heels dug into my aluminum material she's hanging on to the x bar and the top roll cage he goes out there with her and he's only three-tenth slower and he's running with by himself oh no yeah that's a crazy thing there's going to be

parts everywhere oh yeah so the day got over with jimmy walks up to me so he's up to me says, what do I owe you? What do we owe you? I said, Jimmy, and I needed the money, but I said, Jimmy, you don't owe me nothing. He said, maybe, I said, maybe someday you can help me out. Fair enough. So this is like six, seven years later. This is going down. So I started calling Jimmy once a week, and I'd have horrible anxiety for it, because I don't like bugging people. I don't like asking for stuff at all. Yeah. I'd get up the nerve. I knew what day I was going to do it every week and I'd get up the nerve in about three o'clock I'd call him. We're still working on it.

So it's between me and Dennis Setser, actually. To get the truck ride at Hendricks. And Dennis made it easier for him because he decided he was going to drive the Alliance Bush car. The 59 Alliance car. Yep. So finally one day I called when I'm four or five weeks. He said, can you be here in 30 minutes?

I'll be on 15 minutes. I'm in Canapolis. I haul but I get there. I walk in Jimmy's office and he talks to me. me a little bit and he says hang on a second he calls puts it on speaker and it's rick and he says hey jack how you doing i said i'm doing good how are you he said you think you can drive my piece of trucks i said i think so i'm pretty sure i can all right we're going to give you a shot i'm like thank you but it wasn't like we're going to sign you a shot this is going to go race to race a shot

oh my gosh so there's five races left to this season yeah 20 race season yeah next one's Flemington that's like race around his microphone there's no straightaways and i ain't good at that yeah but it's a race to raise deal yeah so it's like you ain't signed you got to give up the deal you're in to do this and if this don't work this don't go back to this what choice did i have out of money i mean i could have made it to i could have made it i could have done something but how do i give up this opportunity. So we go to Flemington and test and we're okay.

We go back to race. I'll never forget. I go to Flemington and crawl in this truck on the B post there, Hendrick Motorsports, and I'm just like, I have died and gone to heaven. Yeah. What is going on here? We go back to the race. Legacy qualifies third. I qualify fifth. I'm like, that ain't looking good.

Yeah. But I think we finished fourth in the race, we beat them. So I'm like, okay, I got past the worst one. next race richmond we go there and test terry lovani's in a hendrit truck so are we we we're in the 25 bud truck and uh we're the fast truck there and testing dennis and i hit it off instantly i love that guy i mean him and i were on the same page for eight years we go back for the race for the fast truck in practice something happened to left for a tire qualifying qualified like 15th i was like man dang it so we start to

the race, throw the green flag. Our radios were given us trouble bad, even during practice. Hope we'd fix it. We didn't. I go into one. I come down. Bush Miller's under me. I don't know it.

I take myself out back in the fence. I'm like, I had just ruined my career. It's over. And I had hides this whole week going into this, and I've never had them before or since. So I come in, they beat it all the best they could. I finished, I run the race. The whole race beat up. It wasn't good.

And the whole race, I'm just sitting there. I just want to cry. I knew I just ruined everything I worked for my whole life. And I come in and Jimmy Johnson, he's standing there. And he's good putting this mean look on his face. He says, what happened? I told him, I said, dude, I'm sorry. I know I just screwed my life up.

He said, can you be at my office at 9 o'clock tomorrow or I'm going to sign you? I'll be there tonight. Yeah. This was Thursday night, right? Yeah. He used to run Thursday nights. So I was there, and they did. Damn.

I'll never forget it. It was $50,000 salary. guaranteed 100,000. Well, they had to explain that guarantee part to me. I didn't know how that worked. Sure. So it was against the winnings, you know what I mean? So by the end of that year, I think we won, we won Phoenix in the spring.

We won there three times in a row, spring, fall, spring. I think we won, there's three or five the first year and finished second the points. And hell, I made 33 grand. I thought I was loaded. Yeah. I'm like, this is a dream. Yeah. So, yeah, we won three out of five or six championships,

and I went bush racing. Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel? Visit shop.dirtymohmedia.com. We're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a t-shirt. Again, check it out at shop.dirtymomedia.com. Tell me how it might have felt to finally prove,

not to yourself, but to the rest of the industry, what you were capable of. Having went through what you went through from 90 to 95, struggling to really get that opportunity that would stick, right, driving C.C.'s car and different things like that. Finally, you get in a truck and you go win races and championships. And there is, there, I'll say it, there was a lot of people that thought you were just going to be good at Concord.

Yeah. And you were able to go out there and finally like prove to people that there was more to you than that. To prove to myself was bigger than anything else. But I didn't want to do it if I wasn't going to be good at it. You know what I mean? And I knew exactly how to make that late model do what I needed to do. I knew how it felt to drive it. And up until the point of I got a glimmer of it with Bertie.

I mean, he was good. That was his heyday. I got a glimmer of what I wasn't there with two or three races. and then I was gone. So going into that truck deal, I was nervous. Because I'm like, man, this stuff just, how can anybody drive this stuff? But even the 35 truck, at times, would drive pretty decent, even though we didn't really know what we were doing.

We were leaning on a lot of people. Yeah. But once I got in that Hendricks stuff, I could make it feel like that late model. I mean, it couldn't do the things with it. It was 3,500 pounds versus 28. but they can drive good too. You go on this tear, you mentioned it, championships, wins. I guess, you know, what are you most proud of

in terms of your truck series career? Is it the three in a row at Phoenix? That's a goodie. And I think it was just because Phoenix was a big Concord. Yeah. I mean, it literally was. It literally was, yeah. I thought about that.

There's two races that I won that I never thought. I thought I would. And it was in the 60 truck, the Wiler truck, had a great time with them guys. Tony Furr was there. I mean, as we all know, the Speedway guru. He is. Well, he built me a guru truck. And we sit on a pole. One day, Tona never thought I would. I mean, so many things, as you know, have to line up. And it did. And it just happened to line up that day. Fast truck. I wore the right side of that steering box out. I've never drove anything so loose on a speedway in my life. But it was weird.

It had no downforce, but it had side force. I mean, I wore that thing out. But, and Martinsville. That is the hardest racetrack I've ever raced on in my life. Really? And I come from short tracks. But that is not a short. That's weird.

Yeah. I mean, it's. Paperclip. Oh, it's so hard, and everything matters so much. Yeah. So I won those. We were able to win those two in the 60 truck with the Wiler's. That was pretty cool.

Mm-hmm. I think the thing I'm most proud of, Dale, to be honest with you, is the people I've met, the teams I've had, they were awesome. I had great, great teams. Yeah. Starting at, you know, once got to that level. Yes. Even my late model guys, I mean, that was all volunteer. But the teams that we had had Hendrick Motorsports, and even at 16th truck, Express Motorsports was huge.

Man, we could have won seven, eight races at first year in that. 16 truck and just kept breaking and leading at the end it was heartbreaking it was just had them one i mean and then to meet the mott wiler's who i met just niece and who i'm harry to now amy shelling box so um people don't really realize there's a this many people that get to do this in the whole world yeah drivers or crew members i mean this is not many people get to do this no not at all what was it like to uh be teammates with with little Ricky, Hendrick. So he's racing the truck series.

Y'all would move up together into the Infinity Series with those programs. It's a good driver. Really good driver. Yeah. Better kid. Yeah, he's a great kid. He was a great kid. Yeah, it was, let's one of them deals.

I had to quit getting emotional. One of them deals where, you know, the boss comes up and says, hey, my son's going to be your teammate. It's like, this could go bad. You know, I mean, really? Yeah, it'd be tough, yeah. Rich kid, you're thinking, I really don't know him at this point that well. So I think 2020 or 2001 trucks together.

And we had Net Zero, he had GMAC, and I thought, man, this is going to hold us back. I mean, it's going to drag us down. I couldn't have been more wrong. One great driver. him and Lance got along well McGrew and Dennis and I I mean we leaned on them too and we won the championship with their help

yeah regardless of what I thought was going to happen but regardless of the great driver party he was a great kid yeah he was beyond his years he was kind considerate he was and he would sit there in the bus a lot at night in color with my daughter

and she was like four it's like who does that right I was wouldn't even do that now in my age, but he was just that kind. Yeah. And I thought a lot of Ricky. It really, yeah. So then the next year we went bush racing.

And then obviously he got hurt and decided to be the owner and not the driver. But it was absolutely the time of my life. Yeah, he was a good little driver. And it was going to be interesting, I think, to see how he developed in the, a new role, you know, because he was taking on some ownership of responsibilities. Responsibilities, right, of choosing drivers or managing certain aspects of Hendon Motorsports, like the Xfinity stuff and so forth. And so, man, it had been really cool to see what he would have been able to develop into

in the management side of things. He'd have been good at it. Yeah, I think so, too. I mean, he was kind and easy to talk to. Everybody did like him, like his dad. Yep. You end up getting to the Xfinity series eventually. You know, you tried to get there before the truck deal took off.

You go and take off in this truck deal. I do want to talk to you about your rivalry with Hornaday. I felt like it was a very healthy one. Healthy, for the most part. A lot of respect. Yeah, 99% of time at last. Yes. Yeah.

I mean, you know, when you run as good as you two guys did, for so many years. There's going to be some moments where, you know, you're banging into each other. It just happens. Yeah, me and him and Skinner. Yeah. So talk about that.

Was it your toughest rival? Both, them two, both. Yeah. Yeah, then there was times where Rutman was right in there in the mix of things, too. What kind of racer was he? Rupman? Yeah. Good.

Really? Hard nose. What kind of, so I'll say it. I have this weird opinion of Rutman because, I don't know him, okay? I don't. But, and I've told this story before, but I was a little kid standing out on the pit road during a rain delay and Pocono. It's probably 19902 or three.

And he was driving, I think he was driving the dinner braille car, the 75 for Raymock. Yeah, I think so. And it was drying up. People were, I was supposed to stand out by dad's car just to stand out there. and watch it. You don't know what for you're just watching it. Yeah, I'm a fucking kid. So he comes walking by.

Dad's car, he's got damn donuts down to both sides of it, right? Because sometimes that's the way he drove. Rupman goes walking by, I'm standing there, and I've got a know in my mind, like Rupman knows I'm his son. And Rupman goes, man, that guy's been running into everybody today, you know, said something really Rutman like, really kind of a sarcastic way.

and man it was like what was I going to say you know he's rupman he's wearing a race and yeah I'm a little kid I'm like I'm not going to smart off to him he were a little shy back then too yeah I was like man I can't believe he said that but uh and it always kind of skewed my opinion to him a little bit but he definitely has a different he's a dry personality yeah very dry but funnier and how really I mean once you get to know him but it's a little standoff as you first right I always did think that he was a hell of a driver. Obviously, he was a great driver. But he couldn't, I mean, I guess he did have some stability at times with Rouse and so

forth, but it was like, you know, he came into the cup stuff in 81 or 82 driving the number driving J.D. Stacey's car. Damn near one Richmond till they blowed the right front tire or right rear tire or something on the front tradeway. But he ran good. He just couldn't like land anything long term. But you enjoyed racing with him. Yeah.

Yeah. I remember there was kind of like before, you and Hornady become teammates at Harvicks. Yeah. You got a strange look on your face. Yeah. Did that not go well? Not at all.

What was the deal? It's one of them deals where it's either, it's going to go one or two ways. Good or bad, yeah. It's going to be like the dieguard thing years ago or it's going to go good. Yeah. And it just didn't go good.

It's just a, I made a bad decision. What decision did you make? To go there. To do that. Where should you have went? What could you have done different? I had a couple other things, not near as good as the Harvard trucks, but the trucks are great. Yeah.

That wasn't, I mean, Ernie and I got along great. We were past. Ernie Cope. He was your crew chief? Yep. Just, just didn't go good. I never felt comfortable walking in there. You know what I mean?

like you walk into a place. Yeah. And you just don't feel comfortable. Yeah, I know what you mean. I just never did. Yeah. And it wore on me and things didn't go quite the way I thought they were supposed to go. Yeah.

How long were you there? Three quarters of a year. Oh. Yeah. Did you, so did you leave or get let go? No, I got let go. Really? It was very tough.

And it was when 08, right, so the economy's crashing. Sponsors are drying up. There's nothing going on. I'm getting toward the end of my career. I'm 46 years old at that time. So I had stuff that I could do, but I didn't feel like I could win with it.

Yeah. So I just wasn't going to do it. You race your whole life. You raced late models when you didn't have nothing but a bologna sandwich to eat. You know, and you ground all these years to get to truck serious success. in my mind, like you could always go back to race, not to drive a late model car,

but in my mind, like when you got done driving, what did you go do? Hid. Why? The biggest regret I have about my career is the way it ended. I wanted to go, everybody wants to go out on their own terms. You can't, you can't. You can't go out on your old terms? not.

You did? They weren't great. My last year sucked. But they were your decisions. Yeah. But I mean, I still, I still, if I spent enough time thinking about that last year, I'm like, why did it run? Why did it go so badly? You know?

Yeah, I get it. You know. But I just felt like after the success that. You didn't get a choice. I didn't get a choice. How it ended. I wanted to be the one to end it. Well, it did because at that point, like I said, all that sponsors.

were drying up. I know, but you could, you know, maybe everybody's not like the same, but was there no interest in your heart or in your head around, like, your roots? As far as like late model racing or something of that nature? Being involved in that in any way. Like you built chassis, you knew any, you knew every part of all of that. And, and, and, you know, and, you knew, you knew every part of all of that. I was pretty bitter. You're so better, yeah. I was.

I'm not no more. Yeah. But I was. How did you get over that? Age, I guess. I guess getting to the point where you just know, you know, only three or four years later, I'm 50, right? So it's, and I could tell at that point at 50, my reflexes weren't what they were. My vision's not what it was.

My balance isn't what it was. I mean, it's just progression. It just isn't. Yeah. So at that point, I know, okay, this. I'm not going to probably wouldn't be the smartest thing to do this now anyway, but it took a few years. I was hurt.

What should you have done instead? As far as what? Instead of being mad and hiding, what should you have done? I don't know. I enjoyed that time also other than being bitter, but I enjoyed that time with the kids that I hadn't had a lot of time with before. How old are your kids then?

Probably page was 12, and the stepdaughter was five-ish, six-ish. Page is 30, and I'm going to be a grandpa in a couple months. Yeah. Yeah. Can't wait. That's exciting. But, yeah, so I got to do things, games,

things I wasn't able to do for the most part before. Yeah. So that was good, but it still is hitting me side of the head, You know what I mean? Yeah. It is hard to watch the sport. Just go ahead and go on. Yeah.

Don't matter if you're there or not. It's going to go on. That first time they went to Daytona in 18 after I'd retired. I mean, I knew they would. But it's just so weird, you know? It's weird. It carry on. How dare you?

Yeah, it is. That's a weird thing. I'm surprised, though, that you didn't find something to kind of fuel. So like I I was scared to just quit cold turkey going to a racetrack, right? I was like, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I need to be sitting around

not at a track, right? I got to be at a racetrack, but I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't want to be there without a role or responsibility. Right. We run late model stock cars and have for years.

Yeah. And I gave you an avenue. It did. But I felt like there, that avenue to run to to own or operate or even assist some kid who's trying to figure it out was there for you i don't know i was or maybe at that point in your life you're just like not that interested in it anymore oh i missed the racetrack i mean i went to a lot of late model races yeah uh only a couple truck races i was embarrassed yeah i mean bottom line is i just i didn't feel like

I don't know. I was just embarrassed and hurt. Yeah. Well, what part of the sport do you pay attention to today? All of it. Yeah. Do you watch grassroots flow, late model stock, supers? Yeah.

You like all this? Derek cars, late models? Yeah. I like it all. Yeah. I, um, we have the cars tour and so we do, uh, through the cars tour, of course, I pay attention to the cars tour, like obsessive, obsessive, But it's kind of helped me also watch what Bubba Pollard and all those guys are doing down in the south,

you know, Florida and Georgia and Alabama and Tony Jr. and Tony Sr. are now, you know, entrenched in the, you know, pro and super late model racing. And I kind of keep up with where they are and who they're helping. And the scene is alive and well. It's big, isn't it? It is huge. You ain't pulling in an open trailer no more? No. No, not really.

Nobody. Tractor trailers, the whole nine yards. Yeah. See, if I had to race now, like I had to race then, I would never make it because I couldn't have never afforded it. Yeah. Would it cost now to late model race versus then? Yeah. There's no way.

Yeah. So it was kind of perfect timing. When's the last time you went to the racetrack? Wilkesboro. Really? I was a grand marshal. I had to go. Damn, there you go.

Oh, but when you didn't have to. to go when it was the last time. Martinsville. Yeah. I think a year and a half ago. Yeah. It's interesting to me because the, like Rudd and those guys, man, when they retired, man, they freaking disappeared.

Like Rudd just, yeah. It's wild. I don't know. It's also a feeling of if I'm not doing it, I don't want to be there. No, yeah. I understand that. If I'm not driving, I don't want to. You need a reason to be there.

Yeah. Could I explain it this way? You're, when you're part of the team and you matter, you know, when you matter, when you're needed. Feels good. Feels good. Yeah. And then when you go, when you know that you're going to the racetrack just to be an observer,

it's never going to be any fun. It feels like you're in a way. Yeah. It's crazy. I went there, I went to the racetrack without a hauler to stand in or sit in. I was like, where they? I didn't even think about it until I got there.

We were kind of prepping for the first year I was doing the broadcast, so we went to Martinsville, and I walked in, and I was like, I don't got anywhere to stand. Like I feel like a freaking idiot. I know peeps. Yeah. Nothing. And so I did learn that when I went over to a few people or haulers that I knew people at,

they were welcoming, and it was fine to go in there, but I couldn't kick my feet up, you know, like we'd done for you. I couldn't change the TV channel. I know. It's the strangest thing. It is strange. It's a weird feeling. I never wanted to go to a racetrack like that.

It gives me anxiety. It's like, man, I just think I don't have nowhere to be here. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's 100%. Delaware is your go-to for commercial and crane truck solutions. Located in Tallahassee, Florida.

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The Dallan Hart Jr. Chevrolet team is ready to provide a world-class experience for your commercial needs. Chevrolet, together, let's drive. You did get up in getting into the Cup series there. You helped Rick a couple times when he had some drivers that were injured. The Cup side of it are never really getting that, you know, great opportunity in Cup. creep in your mind at all or is that since you know you did have this pretty awesome truck career you know won a lot of races won championships um i can honestly say like not winning a cup championship doesn't bother me it's not something that i think about during the day and i think it's because i did

have success in the xfinity series and i got to feel like you had success in the cup series i did but i mean i felt i know what a being i know what winning a championship feels like because i got to experience it at that level. So, you know, had I never gotten to experience winning a championship, maybe I would bug the shit out of me, right? Right. But I know it's, you know, on the Xfinity level, it felt the same. Yeah.

You know, it's all the same. Winners winning. Yeah. What, when you look back on your cup experience, do you have any good fond memories? Being behind the wheel of a cup car? Yeah, I mean, that was another deal. So Jimmy Johnson was trying to put together a deal, Family Channel, me at Hendon Motorsports.

Really? Family Channel. Yeah. They were going to leave Rausch. And it got close, and then it didn't. And at that point, I really didn't even want to go bush racing. Ricky did, so we had to. But I enjoyed it, and we were able to win Nashville,

finished fifth in the points. I enjoyed it. I was nervous of going to the Bush Series, be honest with you. Why? Because I'm a big fish in this pond. And now I'm going back to where I had failure. And I was nervous about getting in a bush car again. But it was, you know, Hender chassis.

We put the bodies on it, Hendricks. It was all, you know, be ready motors. We can our motors. You better be ready when you tag them things. But it didn't take no time at all in the bush cars. We could make them drive like the truck. Yeah. So then we ran that.

And then we were flying home from some. somewhere, Bush race on Rick's plane, and he'd come back there and said, down beside me, he says, hey, he said, Gene Haas, that, you know, been a sponsor of ours for years, all the CNC machines, he wants to start his own team. Here's what we're going to do. He says, we're going to, we're going to supply the car, the chassis and the motors, and I want you to drive it. And I'm thinking, this is the closest thing I've got so far to be in an Anahenra car, right? Well, I should have learned something when Robert and I tried to run a bush car. We neither one of us knew what we were doing.

So Dennis and I went to this cup deal, Hendrick chassis, Hendrick Motors, but we put our own bodies on. So you know back in the day when they had templates, you could make the most beautiful looking car, fit the templates, and then you could make a car, it looks like a foul of the hauler on the way there, fit the templates, and they'd go buy you like 100 mile an hour. Yeah. all tweaked up and crazy our stuff was pretty but it man i just remember like the first four or five six races i'm like there is no way that this thing can not have any grip anywhere we didn't know what we were doing we had great fabricators but they only did what we were they

were told to do i mean we didn't know how to put them on yeah and that was everything yeah as you know that was everything it was and uh So, again, they hired Tony, Tony Fur, and Dennis was supposed to remain the crew chief. That didn't last three or four weeks, and he got shuffled. So Tony put a body on one of our cars for Charlotte, and you're going to like this story. So we go to Charlotte and made $600. We qualify a second, Sterling on the pole. I draw a thing into one, and I just, you feel like you got a garage door spring pole on your foot back,

And I told myself, I'm not lifting. And I went into three and started to turn and started to lift. And it was turning, and I just, and he barely beat me. But anyway, I'm like, okay, this feels like I'm not going to wreck every time I turn it. This is cool. They start to race. I go back a few spots. And I don't remember how far long in the race we were.

We were a couple of pit stops into it. And I was following you. I don't know. We're in the top 10th toward the 8th, 9th, 10th. But I'm tickled to death. I had nothing like this yet. Yeah. And we're going on to back shut,

and I don't know if you remember, you exploded a brake rotor. Went right through my radiator. I'm like, damn. So that was the end of my night there. Yep. We go to Dover, top of the sheet in practice.

I'm like, man, this is awesome. Go to qualify. Something went wrong. We ended up like 10th. And we were bummed about that. Right. We went about half the race through. there and drove myself to sixth bowen kenseth i'm like man this is awesome feeling good well the previous

several restarts after pit stops i restarted on the bottom well back then the top was taboo yeah remember nobody wanted up there anywhere restars nothing no it's where you want to be but i'm restarted on the outside we lost some spots in the pits i'm back 10 12th i drove at thing into one out there and it stuck i'm like okay got a couple of them drove it into three a little harder didn't stick yeah back to the fence damn so then we go to indy to test we're top of the board and indy testing but something was going on you know you can tell people are whispering and all yeah yeah stuff was going on we're leaving the racetrack in the van and they stop and they get a seat out of uh john andretti's hauler i'm like uh-huh you're

we go. So, get home and that deal come to an end. John And Reddy's in it, and then Bliss and Ward Burton. Damn. If you remember, that team never did anything until Stewart got involved. And I don't know what he did, but he turned it into a struggling deal for a lot of years. He turned it into a championship deal. They had a rough run there after they got rid of you.

Well, it was rough with me, but I wish. I wish I could have stuck, I wish I would have, because I think we would have, we would have done something with it. Yeah. Because we were running, we were finally running good, you know, once Tony got them bodies on there. But there was everything. And it was just, and that didn't, that didn't, that didn't crush me near how my career ended did. Yeah. Because I'm like, I'm cool.

I'll go back to the trucks. Yeah. I love the trucks. I feel comfortable there. I don't feel like everybody's got a sight on me with a rifle. I mean, as you know, you're only as good as the week before, right? So I would literally, this is how my whole career, except in late months, but you win a race and you could relax for a week. Oh, yeah, maybe two.

But then you're thinking, I got to win again or I got to prove my worth. So you win a race and everything is great for a couple weeks, and then you get pressure cooker again. And it's like they're not by them, by me, myself. I got to win again. I got to make sure that I don't lose my job. Yeah. And that's just the way I felt through it all. Yeah, that's a tough way to live.

It is a tough way to live. Yeah. In 2025, you were considered and listed as a nominee for the Hall of Fame class. When did you learn about that? Funny deal. I was sitting at lunch with Freddie Query and our other buddy, Jeff Starns, and some other guys usually do lunch every Wednesday. Yeah.

And it's pretty cool. Yeah, it sounds awesome. And my phone rings. And I look, it's Wayne. Wayne Otten and myself, Skinner, Hornaday, and Wayne Otton. We've been tight ever since. We were his boys. He's our guy.

He's an awesome guy. I said, what the hell? I hope nothing's wrong. You know, it's one of them deals. Everybody's getting older and more people, you know, around you. Yep. Fading off. And I answered, he said, hey, I just wanted to let you know,

you're nominated for the Hall of Fame and I'm like, really? You said, yep, you're next, buddy. See you later, click. So that's how I heard. So I pick up my phone and I go to Facebook and there it is. So that's how I found out.

How did that calm the any residual emotions you still had about how your career ended? I didn't have much bitterness left at that point anyway but because once you know you're too old to do it, it only bothers you when you know you can still win. Yeah. Okay, so this is something you go into your career. You don't even, in my case, I didn't go into a career.

I was just racing to survive and you're so busy, you don't have time to think. That was really stupid moving halfway across the country with no money and one race car. I mean, today I think about the one. What was I thinking? Yeah. But you don't realize, you don't do it for this reason.

You don't realize this is a possible reason. You're just working to survive and you're working to win and you're working to do what you can do. And I guess now to sit back and look at it, it obviously is a hell of an honor. I mean, it's a big deal. Did you tell Freddie and those guys? Oh, yeah. They were sitting right there with me. What do you say?

He said, that's pretty cool. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, that's, it's a big deal. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. Yeah. And I don't have any regrets about not being a cup champion. It would have been great, sure.

But, again, only 30 people every week get to do this in the whole United States of America. In them cars or trucks. I have the same exact thing. This many people. I've said that so many times to try to explain to people like how lucky I felt just to be able to get out there and do it. Yep. I mean, it's not being from here, not being, I mean, nowadays, I mean, you got your Josh Barry's that make it on merit and you got a few of them to do, but most of these kids are coming out of simulators and they're paying for the opportunity to do it and some survive it and some don't, but it doesn't happen like it used to happen. No.

I remember when Ernie Irvin got hurt, Erwin got hurt driving Yates' car. I was only like 30. and I called him. I had to get the guts up and I called him. Asked if I could drive his car. You know what he told me? I was still a little too young. Didn't have enough experience there.

Yeah, 30 years old. Now if you're 18, you're late in the Cup series, right? I mean, you better be 18 or 19, but I was a little too young and didn't have enough experience yet. Yep. It's changed. Flip-flop. It'll flip the other way.

One day they'll be looking for 30-year-olds. I don't like so. I believe it. You think so? Everything cycles. I don't know. These six kids are pretty good. Some of them.

Well, I know they are right now. It's a hot ticket. Yeah. Get them young. Yeah, get them young and let them pay the way while they're wrecking stuff. And then if they make it, they're good. Yeah. Well, man, I've enjoyed talking to you.

I've enjoyed it too. Yeah. Pretty cool. I feel like this cool connection to you, Freddie Query, um, the guys that, uh, that I remember, you know, when I was young, reading about in the in the in the in the in the in the in the in the in the race programs uh and hearing about the guys that are winning the big 10 races i mean that was our world well you were down kelly was down there racing and

but that was the world of racing that was we didn't know anything else outside of that and um you know we drove around concord and canapolis and everybody had their car outside the garage a day you know on a Friday getting ready to go yep uh That's the way it was done. It was awesome. I got to ask you one question. You don't have to hear it if you don't want to. No worries.

So back in 89, myself and Robert's stepson, Steve, were over at Mark Arenos, and we had the sportsman car. Yep. It's like midnight. And we're out there outside with the light shining down, doing the body or painting. We had to be at the race track next day. This thing ain't painted. This black pickup truck pulls up.

This guy gets out, and I don't pay much attention. I look over it. It's dark. He walks over and he says, what's this? And I look, I understood your dad. I'm like, it's a sportsman car. Who's driving it?

He said, who the F is driving it? No, I said, he said, who's driving it? I said, Jack Sprague. He said, who's the Fass is Jack Sprague? I said, me. And I'm like, you know, I'm shaking in my boots. He says, well, the only thing I can tell you is eat beans, wear jeans, and work all night. You'll make it.

I'm like, thinking, check, check, check. Yeah. So then that gave me the opportunity because you remember when I used to come about once a week at night after I work on my car about 8, 9 o'clock at night. And that one night, I'll never forget, it said that brand new Hopkins car on wheels, rolling chassis, and you're sitting in the floorboard. You're like 10 or 12. Yeah.

You're making racing noise. I'm looking at you going, kids ate up with that. And you're doing that for about 15 minutes, and your dad and Tony, Tony C. year and then we're all drinking moonshine on the picking table there remember that pinning table yeah and finally said he said you got school tomorrow get to the house and I'm like oh poor kid yeah remember that yeah do you really well I mean I remember those days I remember that specific moment but I remember you've coming around I remember being around I was looking for crumbs yeah anything yeah he says well I if you didn't drive who you drove for I'd help you up I don't like that guy

oh my gosh yeah I don't remember who was yeah well I've uh um I'm thankful that you gave us some time today to come over here and sit down and talk to us and talk about your career, learn more about you, and see what you've been up to here lately. So thanks a lot for spending some time with us today. Appreciate it. Yeah, congratulations on being a nominee. Yeah, that's cool. Dude, it is.

I mean, it's basically, I will say, like, getting, becoming a part of that conversation, is the final. It's the final add-a-boy. It is. It's the last add-a-boy. It might be the last add-a-boy you get, right, out of your racing career.

Yeah. And it's the only one that matters, you know, in the end of the time. Because that's your industries. Yeah. You know, telling you your value. And I'm happy that you got that. You bet you, man.

We hope you enjoy being on the show and love to have you. Yeah, love to have you come back. Cool. Thank you, Jack. Thank you. Jack Sprag on the Dale Jr. Download. Great conversation with Jack Sprag. I don't know how you enjoyed the conversation, but I love to hear about the Concord local, super late model experience that he had in the late 80s, early 90s, because I was just starting to go to Concord and race my street stock car with Carrie right around. the time when Jack was kind of finishing up there. There was a handful of guys that they were huge.

They were legendary in that little world, right? He talked about the big fish in the little pond. But to people like me that were little streetstock racers or just, you know, kids running around at Concord, they were a big deal, and they hauled ass around that racetrack, and their cars looked incredible. And it was just a cool era. And it was fun to talk to him about his sort of, you know, his clunky sort of way to finally land in a very good position in the truck series

and have some stability, a lot of success, become a champion. and then it got clunky again, you know, between going to the Xfinity series with Hendrick and then the cup deal that didn't really work out. And then his career ending in the truck series, and I was a bit surprised that he was so frustrated, I suppose, is the only word I can think of right now about how his career ended. and that I think about that because racing is a mistress or a relationship or a marriage or racing you love racing the same way that you love a significant other in your life and man a lot of times

you don't, like he said, you don't get to choose how that relationship comes to an end. One thing's for sure, it's going to end. You know, whereas, you know, you get, this is, you give your heart to racing, just the same way you give your heart to your wife or your better half. And the thing about that is, is like, you know, my hope and the realistic possibility is that I'm married to Amy for the rest of my life, right? and Jack, you know, has that same opportunity in his personal relationship, not in racing. And racing is going to leave you. And how it leaves you, it's not always up to you.

And it's so tough. And I think that's what we see with a lot of drivers. If you've listened to this show and listen to a lot of our interviews with some of the guys that are retired, I'm always like stopping and pausing and sitting on the retirement or the ending of their career or how did they how did it end and what did they do and why didn't they do this? Why didn't he go race late models? Why didn't he get a late model and take someone else racing? Why didn't he help some?

Why didn't he get to the racetrack back in his roots where he had so much success? Like it seems so logical to me that he would just. go race, all right, man, that was great. Cup, truck, all that fun stuff. I'm going to go back to the Snowball Derby. And I'm going to go back to that circle of people and find my purpose. But he said he hid because he was so heartbroken and embarrassed. And I got to tell you, I think it happens to more people than we know, more drivers than we know.

this thing ends and even if it makes perfect sense it still hurts and and um you've given everything to it you've sacrificed you've done without to to to to have it and it don't love you back that was uh i feel so lucky that that wasn't necessarily how it ended for me and um i know it easily could have. At certain points in my career, it could have easily ended in a very hurtful way. Now, I mean, I could change a few things about the way my cup career wound down. And, hey, I'm still not 100% divorced from racing. I mean, I'm driving my little late mall car, and there'll be a day when I've kind of cheated a little bit in terms of I still get to drive and I still get to know what it feels like.

I haven't had to say goodbye just yet, and I worry about that and how that might feel versus, like, you know, what Jack's experience. But, yeah, that's a fascinating conversation that I like to have with a lot of these drivers, and when they end their careers, some of them walk away without a problem.

No problem whatsoever. And they go on to something else, and it doesn't bother them. But for some, it's hard to accept, I guess, that A, they're not going to race anymore, or B, they don't have the abilities, the reaction and senses and all those things are just not there anymore. Or that they're not wanted, right? A team, no good team wants to put them behind the wheel of their car anymore. It's tough.

but we finish with the idea that he's in the Hall of Fame conversation. Look, I don't know if he'll get in, when he'll get in, but being in that conversation has to mean so much to him. And maybe it means more than he realizes. I think that getting that compliment certainly is helpful to him today, but I believe five, ten years from now, he'll truly realize how much that means to him and how much that really truly matters to him.

It takes a while for that to sink in. Just being a nominee is enough because, you know, only if you get in. But being nominated, considered is such a cool moment. for a guy like Jack with the career that he's had. So I'm thankful for him to give us some time today. It's a lot of fun. It's time for the white flag.

Action's detrimental and door bumper clear recorded on Monday. Doorbubber clear had Connor Zillich on the show, and Denny is fresh off his race at Cota where he broke down everything from his perspective behind the wheel. And yesterday we had our dirty air show recapping everything from Coda, the Cars Tour, Asked Jr., Dirty Modo. and today Herman Schrader dropped their show along with a new episode of Speed Street and then tomorrow Thursday

Amy and I will have a new episode of Bless Your Hearts. It's going to be a great week of DirtyMo Media content and you can celebrate all of this DirtyMo Media content by wearing the new DirtyModemedia merch line. We've got a new e-commerce merch line. You can go to shop.durtymomedia.com and check out all this new great stuff

we've created just for you and we'll keep adding stuff throughout the year. We got the ability now to make a t-shirt however we want whenever we want. So I promise we'll get creative with that and have some fun if Michael let us.

All right, so everybody, thanks for Jack, for coming on and looking forward to tomorrow with Amy and what we might have to talk about but it's been a fun week. Everybody enjoys it.

Looking forward to Phoenix this weekend. It's going to be another great race in the NASCAR schedule. We're off to a great start this year. And it's got me excited. So we'll see you. Check out Dirtymo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.