The Dale Jr. Download - Ken Ragan Was Caught In One Of NASCAR's Most Famous Finishes

Episode Date: August 12, 2026

On this episode of The Dale Jr. Download, Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with longtime NASCAR driver, owner, and racing veteran Ken Ragan, father of former NASCAR driver David Ragan, for a trip through some incredible stories from NASCAR’s past. Ragan shares how he got his start in racing, his days behind the wheel in Cup/ARCA through the 1980s, and the relationships that connected him with legends like Robert Yates, Davey Allison, Richard Petty and Tim Richmond. He also remembers being part of Richard Petty’s historic 200th win at the 1984 Firecracker 400, surviving a serious crash at Talladega, and the story behind his involvement with the growth of Legends Cars – shaping the careers of many NASCAR drivers today. From old-school NASCAR stories to the people and moments that helped shape the sport, Ken Ragan has a firsthand perspective on an era of racing that’s impossible to replicate. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You know, a reporter told me one time, said, you realize every cup race that you ever ran Dale Sr. was in the field. I said, yeah, I think I can remember him intimidating me often, you know, on restarts and all and working through the field. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. You're Dale Jr. Should I say it? It's Dale Jr. podcast. I got to say it. Hey, everybody.

It's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. download. We got a great guest for you today. we get to that, want to invite everybody to the Arby's studio. Don't forget about Arby's new meat in three box. You get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meats and we have Ken Reagan as our guests coming in here today. This is the father of David Reagan. But more importantly, Ken was a racer himself.

Race part-time on the Cup Series schedule back in the early 80s, all through about until 1990. And had a tough. ton of connections and involvement in legends car racing. And we're going to find out why that's so critical or important once we get to talking with Ken. So let's just get him in the room. I'm excited about this one.

I can't wait to talk to Ken and learn about his experiences as a cup driver back in the day. But this should be a fun one. Let's get started. All right. So Ken Reagan here on the Dale Jr. Download, 75 years old, longtime NASCAR, late model sportsman, and cup. Series driver. I knew you as a Cup Series guy, a bit of a part-timer. You also served as president of the Legends of Georgia manager of 600 racing back in the day, which built every

legend's car you see out in the world today, which I was on the front end of that little deal. So we'll get to get to all that as we get down the road in this story. But first of all, Thanks for being here, Ken. Glad to be here. Yes, sir. Born 1950, September the 12th. And how do I pronounce that town in Georgia? I was actually born in Perry, but Perry is just a little north of Unidilla.

Unadilla. Unadilla is where my brother and the banking business that he was involved in and my early days in our car dealership was out. You went to Southern Tech. Yep. So you got an education. You graduated in 72, and you worked in the textile plant. Yeah, well, Southern Tech was a spinoff of Georgia Tech's engineering department back in those days. My brother, both brothers, two or three of my cousins that all attended Southern Tech.

It was a two-year school. They would transfer down to Georgia Tech and finish their career. Well, I graduated from Perry High School, Houston County, and 68, and followed their steps, went up to Southern Tech, the north side of Atlanta. And while I was there, the Board of Regents approved a four-year curriculum for Southern Tech engineering degree. And so I just stayed there. I kind of questioned how I could make it at Georgia Tech anyway. Pete Hamilton moved to Atlanta. I got to hanging out around his shop with E.J. Trivet and having a lot of fun.

As a young kid. Well, yeah, you know, 18, 19 years old. And then in the early 70s, finished up with an engineering degree, a business degree, business and industrial engineering and a mechanical engineering degree from Southern Tech. Your dad, Hugh, was a car owner. Bill France, Sr. had actually drove his car as a time or two. He had a shop that he started after getting out of the Navy.

His cars raced at Daytona, Lakewood, Columbus. So you grew up in a house where you saw imagery of racing, race cars. You race car in the garage. Talk about Pete Hamilton. So as you're a teenager growing up, racing was around you. It was all about motorsports. You know, people have always told. me some of daddy's drivers that your daddy love racing more than anybody I knew of said if he could

have figured out how to do it, he would have raced eight days a week. But after the seventh day, the week started over, so he had to start again. But yeah, we as a family would travel to the tracks. And, you know, it was always a big trip to go to Daytona in the 50s. You remember that? Yeah, we would pull, actually pull the race car. Daddy carried a 39 Ford Coupe to Daytona several times and would tow it not on a trailer, but with a tow bar behind a 53 Chevrolet we had as a family car. The race car is doing as many miles as the truck.

That's right. And had all the spare parts and tires and toolboxes and all stashed inside the race car. I can't imagine what you must have been thinking when he says we're going to to Daytona Beach to race. I imagine you're in your had you seen what Daytona Beach was

did you know where you all were going and what you were about to do or? Well you know I had a sister I still have a sister that's a couple of years older than me. Yeah. And then my two brothers were. Do you remember racing?

Did you go to the right Daytona Beach racetrack? Yeah, the beach course. You went to the beach course. Yeah. And when we would go for the beach course races, in the 50s, me and my sister were excited about the ocean. You know, we'd get to play on the beach.

And my two brothers were older. You know, they were in the 50s. They were teenagers. So they remembered my brother Marvin, especially that got involved in the NASCAR racing with me. He really remembered a lot of our trips up to Lakewood Fairgrounds in Atlanta and Central City Park and Macon and going down to Columbus. you know, all the great NASCAR tracks that were down in that area. But we would remember it would be kind of like a family vacation.

We'd get to go to Daytona because even mother would go and all four of us kids and tow the race car and daddy, my uncle, would drive a different vehicle down there. And they would be on the beach with a race car every day. And me and my sister would play some. But I remember the races. is we went there through the 50s, and then I guess it was 1959 or so. They run the first race on the big asphalt track,

and we went to that race. Daddy didn't enter a car, but he carried us down there. We were there for the first event. Do you, I asked this question carefully, do you remember being at the beach course and seeing a car go around the corner or round down the straightway or do you remember?

You know, I don't actually, I can't recall, you know, being perched up on one of the stands right there in the North Turn. I remember, you know, when we would get there, we would travel down A1A, and it was almost like you were, you know, you were kind of out from everything. It's not anything like it is today. Yeah, no development down there.

And we would travel down there. And we would travel down and make the turn at the south end, and the start-finish line was on the paved portion of A-1A. And then the corners were pretty tight to come back up to beach course, and, you know, they would stage cars and all back on the sand on the beach course. And then we would have a... Where did y'all stage you? We'd have a motel.

I can remember a couple of times a motel where we stayed, and it had to be on U.S. one. It wasn't right on the beach. Mother would keep the car. Daddy would be with his two brothers, my uncles that would go and help. And there was a go-kart track, almost right next door to the motel. And I walk over there and watch those go-karts race. You know, I was probably five, six, and seven years old at that time.

And I would watch them through the fence. And I ride up and down even US One today, and I tell them, my wife Beverly, I say, you know, that could be that motel right there. That kind of brings back a memory. That's right. You know, but. I've done a little bit of research, and there is a single strip of asphalt. So back in the 50s, when there was no development from one end of the actual NASCAR beach

course to the other, there was nothing except this fella that was part of the motorcycle races down there. they had motorcycle races on the beach course as well, had built these two houses, and they were damn near middle, midway down the straightaway on the pave course, on the Pave A1A. And those two homes, one of them is still there.

One just recently was torn down. The other has been reused and remodeled over the years, and it's actually got folks in it. And right in front of those houses is about a, I don't know, probably about a 500, about a thousand or 2,000 yard stretch of asphalt. That's the original A1A, the original strip of asphalt. It's all that's left because all of that stuff, they actually moved A1A over when they made it a four lane, probably several, almost a city block out away from the beach.

But that little strip right in front of that house is still there. there's a monument right there that tells you that it's there next to a little parking lot. But pretty cool. I love that physical history and pretty incredible. I'm sitting here with a guy. I can remember going up to Lakewood when we'd go up to Atlanta and race Lakewood and it was dusty. And boy, we'd get home at night on a Saturday night way up in the hours of Sunday morning. And Mother wouldn't make those trips.

She'd stay at home, and we knew we were expected to get up and get ready and go to church the next morning. Me and my brother Marvin would make those trips a lot of times with my daddy. And I can remember Central City Park, big half-mile dirt track, right in town and Macon, you know, where the AAA baseball park and all's at today. And it was between the baseball field and the Oak Muggy River. And Daddy's cars would run good up there. And I can remember attending those races, but see, now we'd gotten into the 60s. And Daddy passed away in the early 60s.

And my brother Marvin took the cars and actually raced a little bit himself on some of the local Middle Georgia. How did you daddy pass away? My dad, my both uncles had a run of cancer, throat cancer and all in the family. but I tell you, my dad and his two brothers, they ran hard. They back in those days in the mid-50s, even prior to that, before I was born in 50, back in the late 40s, they ran hard down there. You know, it was some moonshine days and get your cars ready.

And on Sunday afternoon, if a cornfield had been cut, we're going to go out there and have some performance. days, make laps and see who's the fastest, and I think that's where racing really originated from. I know some of the history that came out of Dawsonville, and with Mr. Raymond Parks, who was a good friend of mine, and I love the days that I got to sit down and talk to Mr. Raymond, whether it be in Atlanta or when they'd have the birthday parties for him down at River Bend, down at Greenville Pickens, and I don't know if you're familiar with J.B. Day and the River Bend Museum, that is. the best kept secret in motorsports.

Absolutely amazing. And I'd go down for Raymond Park's birthdays that they would have as he was approaching 100. And, of course, Mr. Raymond finally passed away a few years back. And then J.B. has passed away. But the River Bend Museum is still there. Ms. B.'s wife, Ms. Day, is still living. She comes up to Dawsonville for the Moonshine Festival. and but but those guys back in those days ran hard and I think it caught up to them and you know

medical conditions and all wasn't documented at the time yeah like we have them today but I have a lot of memories of those early years not to the point of in the early early 50s but certainly the mid to late 50s and in the early 60s when my brother would hop in those 39 44 with Coops, and we had three or four of them, flat-headed engines. We'd take one to a quarter-mile dirt track, middle Georgia with a flat-head. So you were, your dad passed away while you were a teenager. Yeah, that's right. How, who do you credit with raising you into a man?

Well, you know, I had two great brothers, my oldest brother. You know, in the 60s, he left home and went to it. Atlanta, the Falls Drafting College, finished there. He went to Georgia Tech. And this was in the early to mid-60s, and I can remember getting on the Greyhound bus on Highway 41. Our home place that we still have today is on U.S. Highway 41. The bus would stop.

I'd get on it right there. My mother put me on it, and I'd ride it to Atlanta, get on a trolley car. He lived out on Ponce de Leon. I'd ride the trolley car out and get off, and I'd spend, especially in the summer months while I was out of school, I'd spend time with my older brother. And we'd go to Peach Bowl track, you know, over by where Georgia Tech sat now, Sunday nights. And then I came back home.

My brother that was younger than Hugh, Jr., was Marvin. and I really looked up to Marvin as not only, you know, the person that I could go to, but the leader of the family. My brother Hugh had already left, going to college. Marvin was home, and he went to the Navy, came back home from the Navy, he went to work in Unidella at State Bank Trust Company and stayed there almost 50 years. And he was the... the family person that we could go to, whether it be financial or anything that I might have been

wrestling with in my day and time. And Marvin had quite an influence on me because when I finished college, I came home in 73, early 70, late 72. And mother said, okay, we've got you through college. And my sister, I'm the other two brothers had gone to college. So what are you going to do? I said, well, you know, Pete Hamilton had left the petties and he had been working on race cars with DJ Trivet. And I'd go down there and hang out. And I said, I think that I'm going to go back to Atlanta

and Pete Hamilton's going to put me to work in this race shop. She said, I got news for you. We didn't struggle and push and put you through four years of college for you to go to work in a race shop. Yeah. So I went to work with Levi Strauss. and I decided that if I wasn't going to get to go racing, I'd been dating the Beverly,

the girl that ended up married in 1973. We got married. She was in medical school in Augusta. And so I moved to Augusta. We rented a place to live. She's in medical school. And I get to hanging out with some of my buddies up there that are involved in motorsports and in racing.

I'm working, but I'm also. racing. And 79, my brother back home, Marvin, calls me, says, hey, the Chevrolet dealerships for sale in Unidella, why don't you all move back home? Beverly graduated. And so I did, and we bought the Chevrolet dealership. That's what opened the doors for me to go big time, I guess,

if you want to call it that racing, because up to that point, it was midgets and it was go-carts, and it was, you know, 57 Chevolets. a quarter mile dirt track, anything I could get in. But when we had the Chevrolet dealership, all of a sudden, we've got a little bit of money, and I've got some mechanics, and I've got some toolboxes, and so we go out and buy us a race car and go racing. All right. So you went to an auction where Bobby Allison had a rolling chassis,

a sportsman car, the KM2 sportsman car, and a fella bought that across the auction block, you walked up to the guy at the concession stand. That's right. And he had just purchased a car for $8,000. That's right. And you went up to him, you were like, oh, man, why didn't you bid on it? Why didn't you, what made you want that car?

Well, you know, backing up a few years before that, the old Byron Middle Georgia Raceway had been built in the mid-Darrow. 66, I thought. Oh, yeah. And me and my wife would be dating, and we would always go. We attended every event that they had at the Byron racetrack. And normally Marvin would go, and the girl he was dating that he eventually married.

And I would set up, man, I'd tell my wife and all, you know, I can drive those race cars. I'm going to be a race car driver one day. So we get to the, Well, that time, the day that came that the auction was taking place, it was right before Christmas. It was in early December. And Marvin closes the bank at noon.

He comes around the corner, stops at Chevrolet dealership. My wife at that time, and his wife had gone to Macon, Georgia Christmas shopping. And I said, Marvin, they've got the auction going on up there at the fairgrounds in Atlanta. Let's ride up there. So we rode up there, me and Marvin. And this car goes through the auction block. And we're sitting down a little grandstand. And I said, man, that was a buy right there.

I said, that was a heck of a buy. And Mom said, well, you should have bought it. So we're sitting there, and I walk over to concession stand, and I see the guy that bought that car, get to talking to him. And he said, well, you know, I didn't intend to buy a race car today. I brought a race car hauler. it was a crew cab truck with a tilt body bed on the back

and if you will buy it he said I wanted it I came to sell it if you'll buy the truck I'll sell you the car for what I paid for it well we got to have a truck to pull the car yeah so we bought the truck bought the car loaded car in the truck took it to Unidilla and we thought we had a race car ready to go racing but we come to find out that there was a lot that it was a roller and we got a good deal. It all worked out.

So the guy was from West Memphis, Arkansas. So we're talking back and forth, and he says, well, I'll make you a deal. I'll come down and help you put that car together, and I'll go to first race with you. And I had a race coming up at Rockingham. We got the car ready, went to Rockingham. You're going to go run Rockingham.

Yep, and that was going to be the first really asphalt or big track that I'd ever been on. Yeah. So we get to Rockingham, we practice, and we get in the field, and we're starting way in the back, but that Saturday morning we get out to the track and it's snowing like crazy and snowed the event out. The whole NASCAR weekend was council.

But they had the, they call them sportsman cars back then. It's O'Reilly cars today. That's right. Went from sportsmen to Bush and on up. And we were all lined up on the backstretch. and we've got a photo every car that was lined up except for I was out of car car covered up and our cars covered up with snow

and so they finally canceled a races we go home and get the car ready the following week they had an ASA race in Atlanta, Georgia. We took that car up there, we practiced, it was heavy but we got in the show I don't think they had a fool for you. We practiced qualified on front.

Saturday, and it rained it out on Sunday. So the following race that we could pick the run, still, we've had been to two tracks, hadn't got to run, was an ARCA race at Talladega. And when I took the green in that race, that was the first speedway, or big track, anything bigger than a third mile that I'd ever been on. This old Bobby Allison sportsman.

It was an ARCA show. Yeah. And Red Farmer was actually conducting the rookie meetings. And I just sat down and kept my mouth shut. I think Marvin had told me, said, look, you just sit down and answer questions. Don't be asking a whole.

You know, they might want to know where you were a track champion or what your background is and all. And we, you know, and I had the Chevrolet dealership Muntleda at the time. And I was all in on NASCAR. I mean, I'd follow everything. You know, we'd listen to the radio. the races and all.

That was before the TV broadcast. Grant Adcox were from Chattanooga, Tennessee, and he was racing. And so anytime I needed a dealer transfer of a truck, I'd call Grant. And that'd give me a reason to drive Chattanooga and hobnob and hang out with Grant a little bit, trade out trucks, and go back to Unidale and make a sale. So that day at Talladega, we lost the end. engine in our car. And Grant said, look, Ken, if you're going to be racing, you need to come with me.

We walked down to the cup garage and he introduced me to Robert Yates. And that's how I met Robert Yates and then what a friendship, you know, that turned into. So your date, your first race with this car was 82? That was in 82 at Talladega. At Talladega. Before that, you'd ran some local. short track stuff, some... That's right.

Yeah. You know, I really got to racing a lot. After we got that car, I got to racing some local races down at the, you know, Cordill racetrack. Yeah. Had run some down there. They built a Cordill racetrack in 71, 72, and my brother being a banker was involved in that when it was built.

And we got to racing some dirt cars, and it was a ducer. dirt track and I'd go over to East Alabama and you know some of the local tracks right there in the in the middle of Georgia area not too far from home was your um now this isn't unusual honestly but your pull you know you're going to your first big pavement race is going to be at talladega in this car that you're unfamiliar with and um not really built for super speedways not really built for Talladega. I don't know what kind of body the car had on it from its sportsman days is a... It was a Ventura, Pontiac Ventura.

So how was that experience? How was that first experience? You blew the engine early in the race, it says. Yeah, you know, it was fun. I remember the first time I went out and I came in and Marvin's... I said, you know, Marvin, really, it's easy. I mean, it's... I mean, you're fast out there.

I know things will happen quick, but... You know, the car went around the track. We made four or five laps, came back down pit road. And he said, how fast you think you was going? I said, I don't know, maybe 165, 70 or so. And I think we were like 180, and I think the top cars were. So the car was pretty decent and pretty good. But, you know, even today with some of these younger drivers that I've been involved in

through the Legends program, you take them to Daytona Talladega, and I'm not going to buy any money to say it's easy. But if you're out there on your own and you've got a good car that, you know, it's pretty comfortable. And it's not. And if the speed doesn't bother you, then to some extent, it is easy. Yeah. But if something happens, it happens quick. Yeah.

And you're not going to be ready for it until you get a lot of seat time and experience. For sure. So don't think it's too easy or to come back and bite you. So Grant introduced you to Robert Yates and that'd start this long friendship. and you continue to race the sportsman car in Arca races. You had a 15th at Rockingham, a 10th at Talladega. Well, you know, what really, I think, got us going. We got through that first year, and in 83, well, go back to 82, the fall of the year.

We came to Charlotte. I knew Tommy Johnson. I met Tommy Johnson. He was over at Harry Hyde. And I wanted to come up running a sportsman race in Charlotte to 300. So Tommy talked to Mr. Harry. They told me to bring my car on up early that week. I came up, took it to Harry's shop.

That was the shop that was up on the hill, the metal building. That's right, right in front of the Speedway. Worked on it two or three days there with Tommy. Mr. Harry went out to the Speedway. I'd said it to stands at Charlotte never been inside. And I think we qualified 17th. I believe we got in the first day.

I think they took 40 cars. We got into top 20. And I think we finished that race 11th. I believe, I know we was parked in the old ARCA garage out there. David Pearson was up there into 21 Chattanooga, Chattanooga, Choo, Pontiac. Darrell Walter, I think, maybe one now. race. But we ran good. Well, we had a Robert Yates motor, and you know back in those days, that made a lot of difference. That helped me as much as anything. So I'm in my uniform. I could go

back over to the cup garage and talk to Robert, and he'd come over and check the plugs or whatever in the engine. So my brother is heading over to see Robert, and they stop him at the gate. and they said, your credential won't get you in the cup garage. Well, what do you got to have? Well, you've got to have a credential that says NASCAR Cup. And so Marvin came back. He knew I'd been in the garage at a time or two.

I'm in my uniform. He came back and he said, look, the next race we run, it's going to be a cup car. I'm not going to be kept out of the cup garage. So when we get home, we're going to buy us a cup car. Well, M.C. Anderson was selling out in Savannah. Cale had been driving for him.

We bought a Buick from M.C. Anderson. NASCAR wanted me to run some more races before I tried to qualify by Daytona 500. So I took that sportsman car to Florida. We got to Buick, got it ready, got Bosco Loved to go down and drive it. We went down, and I took that sportsman car to Florida. sportsman car the first weekend, because we had to be there with the cup car for Bosco, I qualified it for the Arka race around the whole race and finish. We stayed in Bosco qualified the cup car.

We stayed that next week. I ran it in the Saturday sportsman race around the whole race and finish. And we got the cup car that Thursday night in the 500, and we thought we'd conquer the world. So we leave Daytona and come home, and on Monday, Robert Yates called me, and he said, man, I got a favor. Bobby Allison was driving for Robert and Gary Nelson and Buddy Perrin them over at DiGuard. And he said, he wants Davey to go run Rocket Ham, which was a following weekend. And he said, I don't have an engine.

David had run Daytona and had some engine. He said, the only engine I've got is the one. you've got in your car and he said what if we've taken put it in davy i said fine you know robert whatever we can do so davy alison leaves hereatown comes to unidela stays at marvin's house we pull the engine out of my car put in davies he loads up like on a wednesday heads to rockingham and runs rockingham and bobby alison up until just a few years back me and bobby would chat about that sometimes. Me and Davey got to be real good friends and, of course, the relationship with Davey and Robert, you know, after Bobby left, and Robert had gone over and bought the Rainier team

and got Hardee's and put Davey in the seat. That relationship just got stronger and stronger. Then my brother Marvin had helped Robert, you know, from a financial standpoint if Robert needed any kind of bank loan or something to keep whatever going. And that relationship just really got strong and it benefited me and it worked out. It enabled us to race and certainly Robert and in the end, you know, how we got Robert involved with David or David got involved with Robert, you know, to help him forward. Yeah. You eventually were able to make a start in that car, that Buick from M.C. Anderson at Atlanta in 83. You remember much about that? Yeah, I remember all about it. We've got to be good friends with Robert. Gee, your great.

grandpa. Yeah. And I tell you quickly how that happened. Take your time. My brother, I'm in Unidela during the week running the Chevrolet dealership. Well, Chevrolet comes out with this deal for every pickup truck that you sell. For $100, you'd get a Delta round-trip airline ticket anywhere in the continental United States. Yeah.

$100. That's right. Well, you know, I'm selling, we're selling way more trucks in Doolie County, and we are cars. So the farmers down there, they don't want an airline ticket. They don't want to go anywhere except for back to the barn to get on the tractor and get in the field. So my brother over at the bank, he says, look, you sign up and get them tickets. I'll give you the $100 for every one of them.

So he gets a stack of them on his desk. Well, in the early 80s was a bank. about the time that the NASCAR team started flying. You know, prior to that, they would drive to Riverside or drive to, you know, wherever we'd go. I've seen Robert Yates pull in a many a day at the racetrack crawl out to holler because he drove it. So Robert G. And my brother Marvin have made friends. And Marvin is feeding these tickets to Robert G.

Marvin didn't got anything in them from a banking stemper. So he's just, so G's flying, you know, to different tracks. And that deal's working out. And when we got to Atlanta that November, same car that we'd run in Daytona, that was common back then, especially teams like us. We didn't have but that one car. I think at that point we only had one.

And Jeff Bodine was doing some driving, in the sportsman car over at G shop, and he had introduced. I knew Jeff, and Jeff would kind of help me. Morgan Shepard would help me a little bit, and your granddaddy thought a lot of Morgan. And so I remember down in Atlanta, there was a question about whether we was going to make the field or not. They probably had 58 or so entries, and they take 40, and you get in on time, there wasn't any of this guaranteed provision. sort of deal.

So Jeff O'Dine, no, Morgan Shepherd comes over there and G gets him to get in the car and just kind of shake it down,

make a run, he comes back, we make some adjustments on it and qualified and made the race. We started on the 20th row.

I remember that day crawling in, I told my brother Marvin, I said, golly, it's a long way to the front.

He said, you don't worry about the front, you just drive to the finish. So we made that race. They was, one car left to qualify. We were

set in 40th, and it was J.D. McDuffie. And J.D. had borrowed an engine from Junior Johnson and put it in his car. And when he went out to qualify, we just knew he was going to get bumped. And he shifted through the gears and an oil line blew off. It didn't

blow the engine, but lost the oil line. And we were jumping up and down. We thought we'd, again, conquered the world because we was in the Atlanta Journal 500, I think it was. Yeah. you made sporadic starts over the next couple of years the famous 1984 Firecracker 400

you're in the photograph as Kyle or as Kale and Richard Petty are crossing the finish line Petty's 200th win in my mind I mean I'm a kid I'm 10 years old I feel like I've been watching racing super close I've been I've been just all over it for like three or four years at that point. And in my mind, you were a part-time independent racer but had been racing.

It felt like quite a while. But now that, you know, hearing this story, like you literally are only about two and a half years into your ass fault. Yeah, maybe 10 out of 12 races. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, you didn't know it at the moment, I guess, how big of a, how big of a deal that was. But all these years later, you know, what is it like, I guess, for you to be an innocent participant in this huge moment in NASCAR history? That was quite a weekend. Going back to my two brothers, my oldest brother, now he's graduated Georgia Tech. He's up in Atlanta working with Georgia Power.

and he gets involved in politics, and he had run for a Georgia State Senate seat and got elected. He's a Georgia State senator, and he's a big Republican of it. He's all into politics. So that year in 84 was a reelection year for Ronald Reagan. Yes, sir. And they were going to bring President Reagan, was going to fly in, give the command, which he did, and they had told us at the driver's meeting. Now, the winner of the race, you don't turn and go down pit road,

you're not going to victory lane, we're going to stop you on the track at the start finish line, escort you up to the press box, and President Reagan's going to present the trophy. So we're racing along there, and during that time, we'd also got to be good friends with Herb Nave. and you know her was he was a lot like my daddy he was all in he was a hundred percent racer old school um he uh was crew chief in force and um because he had left uh after the renear deal with her

after he left junior johnson went over to renier um i think that was a Monday deal deal that swayed Herb, because Herb used to tell me about that. You know, he got a note paid off on his house, and of course he had married Dee, you know, Robert Harrington's sister, and I really had a good relationship with Herb. But so we've got him down there in Daytona, and the race is winding down. My brother Marvin's up on the spotter stand. He's spotting for me. and he says now look the leaders are coming

Richard Cale just make sure you give them room so I'm trying to hug the bottom and stay out of the way well we're getting down to like five laps to go and I believe it was Doug Hebron I think we're about three to go goes off into turn one tire something spins around car gets airborne goes to do doing one of those barrel roll flipping all over the place.

We're coming off a two on the back stretch. The leaders are, and I'm up middle of the back stretch. Well, a caution's coming out. Well, back in those days, we race to the start-finish line, and if you didn't get another green, the race was over. So Marvin tells me on the radio, he says, now they're going to be racing back to the finish line, just stay out of the way.

Well, I wanted to find me an exit off the back, backstretched, but I couldn't. So we come around, and just as we go across the start-finish line, they go by me on the outside. And I've looked in my mirror, and I see smoke flying. They're rubbing feathers, and it's hard racing. And I know Richard came out in the paper after that, and he said, yeah, I picked up a little draft off of Reagan that helped me beat Kel to the line, and I'm not talking about President

Reagan. So that was kind of a neat deal. But, you know, the funny part of that, they told us. the driver's meeting about the leader coming. So when we crossed the start finish line down in turn one, my brother said, Naskar said you beat them to the line. You didn't get laps. So pass them and catch back up to the field.

You didn't lose that lap. So I pass by them and I'm catching up to the field. We're coming around and to take the white flag. Harold Kenda has got the white flag in his hand. Well, when Richard passes the entrance on the pit road, Kale had been told, you know, that Richard had won, he was second. He's all frustrated. Well, he turns down pit road.

A lap too early. Thinking that Richard is going to stop to go up to the tower to get the trophy. And the White L, I think, comes on to the region and says, hey, hey, you know, the race isn't over. So he goes back out and blends back in. He lost the spot, I think, to. Harry again. Yeah. And Harry finished second.

Yeah. So we catch up to the tail, race is over. where they do the trophy presentation, President Reagan comes down inside and the team owners and the drivers get to have lunch. I was there. Oh, were you? Yes. Kentucky Fried Chicken.

I was with that. I was standing from here to that door, or I was sitting, you know, from here to that door, it feels like, from Richard and Ronald, or Ronald Reagan and Bobby Allison. Bobby Allison. the stage, yep. And then we were all sitting at these picnic tables, these long rows of picnic tables, eating chicken out of a box.

Kentucky Fried Chicken, I think. It was. It was. Tammy Wynette was there? She was. She sang, Stand by your man. I love to hear that song today and just think about Daytona.

Stand by you man. Dude, I totally forgot about that. I'm going to tell you who else was at that event that day. Sitting right over there, Adam Reagan. I'll be dang. Yes, sir. Adam was born in 1984, and we took him. He was born in April, and that race was in July.

He was about three or four months old. We took him to Daytona. And he had lunch that day at the racetrack with President Reagan and Richard on his 200th win. That moment, in that, it feels like it was like a white circus tent. I can't really be sure. All this stuff is so vague in my memory. How old were you then? I was 10.

Oh, 10? Yeah, 1984. I was born in 74. So that was probably 9. But getting ready to turn 10. But I mean, I remember, like, being there and it, you know, usually race was over. You better have your shit together. Daddy was leaving.

You know, you better be where you're supposed to be, right? And that was one of the very few races where we didn't haul. But at the end of the deal, we, stick around. Dad was very proud to, like, be there. And, all, you know, I think everybody got dressed up a little bit, you know. Everybody got cleaned up best we could. And, man, it was such a surreal occurrence.

See, I was 35 then. And, you know, I was 32 when I got to run the first NASCAR race at Talladega, the big NASCAR track. the Arka rate, 32. Or today, if you're 32, you kind of washed up. You better be ready to go at 18, 16, you know, anymore. But, yeah, that was a remarkable day, and it was a lot of fun. And we raced for fun back in those days.

You know, I knew that I wasn't going to ever get a call to do it full time. But we had a lot of fun. You had some good sponsorship. Was that good sponsorship? You had McCord and a couple different logos on there that, you know, I'm looking at the back of the field. And, you know, Jimmy Means is out there with Broadway motors and J.D. McDuffie's got a Rupple furniture. And there's a couple of, like, really, you know, these on, I know you were too, but them thing boys were on a super tight budget. And, you know, H.B. Bailey wouldn't have anything on his car some weeks.

That's right. Roger Hamby would have, you know, the hotel or something like that on there. Hesco exhaust. Yeah. That was his goal. You would show up with like your cars looked good. You looked like you had, you know, competent partnerships and sponsors, recognizable names. Even though you were part-time and, you know, you weren't, like you said, you race for fun.

the optics of the car on the racetrack it looked like a really decent, nice deal. Keep in mind, my brother that was influenced of me was a banker. And he would make me get out and hustle. And I remember that first car that we took to Daytona that Bosco drove, and then I got in it after the Daytona 500, had Clintiment toothpaste on it. you might remember a doctor from Greenville Pickens, Dr. Don Jarvis.

Okay. He brought Clintoman in in 81. And I was coming to Charlotte to pick up parts of engine or something for that car. And driving up 85, I stopped in Greenville and found the Clintoment toothpaste company. And that was like in December, January. Yeah. And I stopped and went knocked on the door. went inside and swung a racing deal with them for that year of 82 or 83.

I guess it was 83 was the first year that we did cut with the clintonment toothpaste store. And then along with the car dealership, I had an auto parts store. And so some of the people in like the TRW sponsorship we had and the McCord Gaskets we had was some of the people that I'd met through the auto parts store. And I got you. It worked out. Yeah. I was curious as to how you put those deals together.

I only remember the Monte Carlo's. I guess you had that Ford later in the 80s, in the late 80s. But you had that Monte Carlo. And then driving for HB, you drove for him a little bit in the 17, with the McCord sponsorship on board. Tell me about DiGuard. This is one thing that I do not remember. you got tasked to drive some experimental cars for them.

You actually raced the car that Sacks won the Firecracker 400 in. So Sacks goes down there and with Gary Nelson, they beat Bill Elliott, almost an insurmountable task. One of the most Cinderella victories in NASCAR history. You drove that car in some other events. What was that? Yeah, we had built that relationship with not only Robert Yates, but especially Robert and Buddy Parrott and Gary Nelson

and the Dygard group. And they had moved from Daytona Beach back up to Garrison Road out by the airport. And I'd come up and I'd pick up engines and, you know, visit with the guys and try to be friendly with them. So when Bobby left in 83, they won the championship. And I think that Mr. Gardner started venturing out, letting Robert Yates build engines for a couple of other drivers. And if you know, the engine that Richard Petty won his 199th race at Dover

and his 200th race at Daytona, the July 4th race, was a Yates engine. And Bobby wasn't too happy with that. You know, Bobby would give you his opinion in a heartbeat. And they had a second, you know, when Sacks won, they started that second car with Sacks running it more often. That's the one that they put me in. Well, Bobby bailed out. He told Mr. Gardner, if Robert was going to be building competitors' engines,

that he bailed out. So they put Greg in the car. Greg had won that race in 85 at that time. at Daytona. He had earned the right, so they put him into 22. And the 10 experimental car was, test car was, so to speak, was vacant. So October's coming in Charlotte, and Robert wants to build a Ford. That's the first Ford engine that he built that the TRW number 10 Ford Thunderbird that I remember that in Charlotte. I remember that car. Robert's first forward engine.

Damn. And I tell you, we qualified in. And again, back in those days, the car count was extreme at Charlotte and Atlanta and some of the tracks like that. Yeah. And Robert walked down, Gary Nelson crew chiefed it. And he told me, he said, I told Gary, said, y'all just made the show here for the 500, 25 less horsepower and any Chevrolet motor out there on the track.

And, you know, the car drove super. I mean, Gary Nelson was a wizard. You know, he seemed to have all answers to me. So that was a lot of fun. And I felt honored because going again, I was kind of racing because it was something I really wanted to do. I really enjoyed it. It was kind of like my daddy, I guess.

I couldn't get enough racing. And I just felt honored to be there. You know, for me to start a race along beside Bobby Allison or Donnie or Richard Petty or somebody like at Kil Yarber. It was an honor to me, and we didn't feel like that, maybe I didn't even feel like that I should be there, much less race my way to the front and take the trophy home. You know, I just felt a lot of appreciation for being there.

And we got a lot of help along the way, you know, with people like Robin and Herb Nalb. You had a big injury at Talladega where you hurt your neck. What happened there? Yeah, that was a bad deal. You know, that was the year I was going to drive the Speedway races for Roger Hamby. And so that race, as we had done at Daytona, we took our car to Daytona for the Arca race, and I qualified on the pole, set fast time on the pole.

That was in 85, and the same year, 85, Bill Elliott. set on the pole for the 500. Well, Mike Helton was in Atlanta. He was the manager of the Atlanta Motor Speedway. That was prior to Mr. Bruton-Smith, buying the track, sent and hit Clark down and Humpy getting involved. So Mike Helton's down at Daytona, and he's tickle of death.

He said, boy, I got something to advertise now because we had filed an entry. We're going to run the Arka Race in Atlanta after Daytona, too. So he's got both of Georgia drivers on the pole at Daytona. It was kind of neat. So we ended up taking that same Arka car to Talladega. And we're going to run our Arka car on Saturday and Roger Hamby's cup car on Sunday. And we qualified for both races.

And we led, me and Davy Allison pretty much led the majority of that race. And it come inside. We had a red flag halfway through. one of the arka drivers had got airlifted out. It was a nasty wreck. Race was delayed. It was getting late. And we're inside of 10 laps to go.

And we're leading, Davies 2nd. And on a restart, come off down into turn 1, and somebody's blown an engine. And when I go off into turn 1, I cross the oil spot and got squarely and turned. the car up into the wall. And I think it was Bob Reeveck, maybe behind me. Davey got through it.

Somebody else spun. Could have been Billy Harvey. And the caution comes out and races over and Davey wins. And I'm being there lifted out to the Aniston Hospital. They pulled me out of the car with a collar around my neck. I told him my neck was certain. I was alert. I said my neck's certain.

okay, my neck's hurting. So they put a call on me and they dragged me through the window, get me to Aniston, airlifted me out, and because the race is over and find out I've got a fracture in my C2. And they said, you know, that's a miracle that it didn't just take you out. So they put me in traction and got the vertebrae set, put a halo on me. And I had to go home later that week with a halo and a body cast, struggle around. But I raced 16 weeks later. We got Lenny Pond to fill in for me while I was out. That's right. I remember that.

And then in Michigan, 16 weeks later, I felt like that was the right track. So we went back and I ran Michigan and started and finished and got over that one pretty easy. Yeah, was that one of the toughest injuries or wrecks that you had to deal with in your career? that one bad Dale because you know I was out I was out a

I was out 16 weeks she got loose right there you see Davey went way up to high and then when I I crossed that oil I just got into it and then the Billy Harvin the blue car

he spins too but yeah that was a that was a hard hit and you know it it concerned some of the boys on the team and that that wasn't why we were racing

and we didn't want things like that to happen, but it was a bad deal for all of us. And Adam was a year or so old. David hadn't even been born. I think Beverly was expecting David, you know, soon, and I get home, and I'm in a halo. And, you know, it's kind of a few tough days. But we managed to get through that.

Had you had any other bad accidents that you remember? 88 was the tough one. that's what I remember the most. I was back in the Hoosier Good Year days. That's right. The tire wore. And we didn't have much of a choice back then. We had to run the tire that was the fastest.

That's right. If a Hoosier tire was going to be faster than the good year, we couldn't stay on Goodyear and have 10 cars on Hoosiers to beat us and us load up and go home. That's right. So we're up here in Charlotte in the fall of 88, and we put Hoosiers on, and I ended up getting airlifted, from the Charlotte track down to hospital.

Do you blow right front in the race? You know, I don't know exactly what happened. Rusty Wallace was behind me when that happened going into one, you know, was a little jump, yeah, a bump right there getting into one. And the car got out from under me. And I, you know, Rusty told my crew chief, DeWitt Pascal, at the time, that water came out from under the car. car. He thinks a radiator hose was off the bottom, but I'd hit. I backed up into the wall. I lost it

backed in and spun it around and hit with the nose and on the left front. Yeah. And it coasted down on the grass. I'm facing the fence down at the guardrail. Mr. Wheeler was already special to me at that point in time. And Ed Clark's up here working under Humpy. And so they come to the wind of the car, put the window net down, and I said, look, I'm okay with the exception. The oil tanks push back on my feet. I said, I think I got a broke ankle and I can't move my feet. Well, they was worried about my neck because of three years early at Talladega. I said, look, my neck's fine. I want to put a call on me. So they put a call on. They said, we're going to have to take the jaws of life and cut the bee post and roll the top back. We're going to lift you straight out. And so they come out

there with a sheet. I said, wait a minute. Don't throw that sheet on me. He said, well, it might be some hot. I said, I want that sheet throw it on me. I said, did you see all them people in the infield? It were to get out that I'm gone. They throw a sheet over you. Oh, yeah. That was a sign. If you saw a tarp or sheep come out. Cut the roof, got me out, got me in the hospital. And Bill Simpson had just given me an enclosed helmet. I used to wear an open-faced helmet. I remember seeing you and different ones, you know,

open-faced helmet with goggle. And I was wearing that enclosed, that full-faced helmet for the first time. Get me in the infield hospital. They want to cut that helmet off. I said, wait a minute. I don't want you to cut this helmet off. So my crew chief de Witt comes in, and he talks to him. We convinced them my next suitcase, so we get the helmet off,

and I've still guided this at home today, up on one of the trophies. And air left me down to the hospital, and I spend eight or nine days down there. And, you know, when I get out, I get released. I think that maybe, you know, I've had my fun. I've done my deal. Maybe I shouldn't race anymore.

Well, I come back and I race more, and that was in 88 in the fall. 89, 90, 91, I had Jasper engines. And, but when I got released from the hospital here in Charlotte that day, Dick Beatty and Harold Kenda came down to the hospital in a NASCAR van. They rolled me out in a wheelchair, had both feet in a calf, sent me in the van, and they took me and my wife Beverly all the way to Unidilla, Georgia. No shit. It unloaded me at the house. My brother's there. and they come back to Charlotte in that NASCAR,

Dick Beatty, Harold Kendall. I mean, what a trip that was because I was alert and all then and was okay other than healing. In 1988, you had a deal to have Tim Richmond race your car at Daytona in the clash. Tim was eligible to run but didn't have a car. Tim's trying to mount a comeback, and, you know, he's fighting in NASCAR.

They're having a press conference every other day down in Daytona back and forth. And he couldn't pass the physical, wouldn't release his records. NASCAR wanted his medical records, and he wouldn't hand him over. But what about why did you want to do that with Tim? and did you realize, I guess, that NASCAR was fighting against that? Yeah. Did you, were you comfortable putting yourself sort of in the line of fire there? We all knew and understood the issues that Tim had.

But backing up, the years that Tim was up running the Indy cars, he had gotten my attention. I liked Tim Richmond. I thought that Tim, and I even like to think today that I might have a little bit of a touch of seeing and talent, you know, with young kids that we put in bandaleros at seven, eight years old, and legends at 10 or 12. And I used to tell my brother Marvin, I'd say, I'm telling you, that Tim Richmond is a wheelman. He is the best that I think that I put my eyes on.

And I was afraid that Tim was going to take himself out if his family didn't get him out of them Indy car. Oh, yeah. You know, some of the wrecks he went through. So he was about like me. but so he comes in to NASCAR and there's a lady friend of mine that still is in Atlanta that was a good friend of Tim Richmond

she dated Tim some and so I got to know Tim through her basically and I just thought the world of Tim I thought he was the greatest of all great ones and so Robert Yates calls me we go to Michigan the last race at Tim him ran and his car's right in front of my car the day we're qualifying and we're pushing up pushing up i'm already in buckle in ready to go and there's about two cars going till them hadn't showed up well they finally come from the motor home with him on a golf cart push him in the car

he qualifies i think we are qualified him he was already sick upside down that's right having problem and even that that next day at the driver's meeting he wasn't there and there was a little issue about that. So that was the last race he ran. Well, that fall, he calls Robert Gates, and he's eligible for the clash at Daytona. That's right. And he wants to drive Davy's backup car. And that's a Texaco-sponsored car and a lot of legality and all there.

And Robert said, well, Tim, you know, I can't do that. But the only other car that I'm in. involved with going to Daytona is Ken Reagan's and it's one of our cars one of our I'd get up my cars and all most of the time from Rob, uh, Robert. And it's got my engine and all in it. So I'm going to have Ken to call you. Robert called me and my brother, keeping in mind again, he's a banker. Well, I think last place in the clash back then paid 30 grand. Yeah. Paid 100 to win it or whatever. And Tim, I called Tim and Tim says, I just want to drive the car.

Whatever it wins you guys can have, you can keep it all. I don't want. My brother said, let's do it. We got to do it. He had his eyes on that, I guess, big check. And that was okay. But me and being a friend of Tim and thinking so highly of him, we were going to put him in it, and we'd get the Daytona,

and he can't pass the physical. So the second day, we're going to let him go out and practice in the car when they have the clash practice, and he can't get his license. So he comes to me the last day and he says, I just went over to Halifax. I passed the same physical. I'm going to be good to go today. So he goes in, takes the physical, still doesn't pass.

And I think NASCAR, they knew more than what everybody knew about maybe was that the right thing to do and not the right thing. What's the right thing to do? Probably him not to run this event. So they never gave him the license to race. And Junie Donnell, he told me down there that weekend. said, Reagan, if I go to the motel tonight and all I see is your car on the sports because they keep talking about every time you back out, they want to know if Tim

Richmond's in it. He said, I'm going to turn my TV off and load up and go back to Virginia. Junior Donald every was a, you know, he was a great one too. But so Tim didn't get to drive the car. But you know, Dale, and a quick comment on that. A few years go by, Tim passes away. I'm on the way to Toledo, Ohio that night, middle of the night, midnight, me and DeWitt, Pascar, driving up.

We hear on the news that Tim had died. And I really hated that. So a few years go by, and I'm up here in Charlotte with David. This has got to be 2003 or 4. And they're going to have a parade for the Coke 600. of downtown Charlotte. And they've got a Corvette club just bringing the Corvettes

and they're going to drive some of the retired ride to retired drivers into Corvettes for the parade promoting the Coke 600. So they called me. Now I've come up here and I'm working for Mr. Wheeler over

600 racing. And they said, look, I said, and I told David, me and David was together and I said, you know, be Allison, Richard Petty. That ain't me. Darrell Walsham, you know, those guys are the ones that.

So that afternoon, David had gone up to Barry Owens. Barry Owens and Cam Strata was helping David. He was 15, 14, 15 years old with some late models and a park of car. And I'm sitting over at 600 race, and we're supposed to be down there if we're going to ride the parade by 5 o'clock. It's 4 o'clock. I said, you know what? I'm going to just drive down there and see what it's all about.

So I drive down a park. walking over, I see these Corvettes, convertibles out in this parking lot, and they got posters on the side with Allison and Parsons, just different drivers.

And I see one over there and says, Reagan. It's a 71-model red corvette, Reagan on the door. So I'm going over there where God taps me on the shoulder and he says, hey, Mr. Reagan,

will you sign these for me? I don't even have a Sharpie. I didn't, you know, I question whether I need, so he has, had like four of my postcards. A McCoyed gasket of Jasmine. So I said, I feel pretty good about this.

So going over to the Corvette. The guy comes up and he says, I'm to ride you tonight in this Corvette. Said, I want to tell you the history. So this is Tim Richmond's Corvette. Tim was my uncle. It was Tim's sister's son. And he said, the family wants to thank you

for what you did. did and standing with Tim and all and giving him that opportunity, giving him a Daytona. Yeah. And boy, am I ever so grateful that I went down there that day and got that message and got to meet with him and ride in the 71 Corvette that was Tim's? And when Tim passed, he left that Corvette to his sister. And the family, evidently, Tim, is chaired with them that, yeah, we liked Tim.

We thought a lot of him. And, you know, I've had different friends. Sometimes you get involved. mixed up with something that comes back and if you could have played the card different you would have but it was a bad ending for Tim but you know what a lot of great memories I have of him as a true race car driver yeah so we know Robert Yates would have a ton of success in NASCAR with Robert Yates racing but before it was Robert Yates racing it was Reneer racing um keel Yarborough Bobby Allison, Buddy Baker,

all these great race car drivers had driven the number 28, the Grey Ghost, the Hardy's car. You were part of facilitating this transition, the sale from Reneer to Robert Yates. How are you involved in that? We built that good relationship with Robert, and I remember at Daytona,

the day he walked out of the garage, he came to me, had looked at the plugs and jetted my cooperator and all that, and he said, look, I'm leaving. I'm going back to Charlotte. If anybody asked, I'm in Charlotte. And he left the garage, and that's how he ended up leaving DiGuard. You remember what year it was?

It had to be 86 or age of seven, right in there. Okay. No, it was after that because I drove that TRW car and that number 10 call. What was the year I drove at? But anyway, Robert left and came up, and he went to work with a fuel company down in Spartanburg. You know, he mixed and was developing performance fuel

or jet rocket fuel. And he got to talking to Renier, and so when Mr. Harry hired him, I came up that day in a truck. I stopped by down at the fuel. place and we loaded Robert's toolbox and all up in the truck and it was actually Marvin's El Camino, you know, it was sitting like this going down the road. I brought Robert's two boxes and all up to Reneer and unloaded him and he went to work there. And Mr. Harry kind of turned things as a year

or two went by, kind of turned it over to Robert and got a little bit indebted to Robert on what he owed him for his work. And at the end of the year, Mr. Harry was looking for a way out. out. Robert called my brother Marvin and said, look, he owes me this and I can put my house up and we can do this. And if you can get a note for this, I can buy this team. We talked to Hardee's. They will stay three years. Davey Allison had come over and drive and it was just a perfect picture. So they put that together. And the rest is history from, you know, Robert over here in downtown Charlotte to moving up to Morrisville up here and, you know, winning the championship with Dale. You know, you drove race cars all your life. Now, you know, I'm curious as to how difficult was it

to finally decide. All right, man, I've had my last run. Well, you know, it wasn't that hard, Dale. I'd have had a few issues with diabetes. My blood sugar was causing me a little bit of a problem. And that was back in the day when they didn't really have the monitors and sensors and things like that to kind of help you control things. And there were so many unknowns about it that I kind of felt like maybe I needed to stop. My wife Beverly, she had both the kids, you know, Adam and David. And that was a handful for her. And, you know, things that we had enjoyed it. We had had a good time.

We'd made a lot of friends and things, in my opinion, had worked out okay. I didn't have any wins, but I was okay. I could live for that. So it wasn't that hard. And then David was 10 years old, 11 years old, and we started racing him a little bit in some open-wheel carts. And I wanted to get him in something different with a cage around him. Yeah. And Mr. Wheeler, they had bought the racetrack down in it.

and Ed Clark had come down, who was a friend of mine from years gone by. And so Humpty talked to me about coming aboard and kind of doing in Atlanta what he had done up in Charlotte with a legends car program. That's right. And I just felt like that was in my wheelhouse and all. That was something that I'd really enjoy. And I have enjoyed that. I've enjoyed that working with the legends cars and the kids and watching them grow up, probably as much as I did race. because it's tied into motorsports

and it still keeps us connected to the racing world. And with David getting involved and things finding a way to work out for David, that was just a grand bonus. Yeah. All the things coming together at once. You started your tenure with Speedway Motorsports at the Legends Car Program Atlanta,

but you'd moved to Charlotte in 2001 to manage 600 racing entirely. 600 racing has grown to this, So, originally, the Allison brothers were the manufacturer for Legends cars. They built the first handful. I raced the third Legends car ever built. It had an 850cc motor on it. And then they eventually start putting the 1,200s and things like that on there.

You worked up at the Allison Brothers shop for a little while, didn't you? I got a speeding ticket. Daddy said I had to pay for my lawyer. So I went and got me a job. and one summer I ended up working up there at Allison Brothers cutting spindles and things like that. And I had a great time. And appreciate Kenny, Ronald, Donald,

these are all of Donnie's sons that manage that. Eventually... And Miss Pat. Yeah, Ms. Pat. She was a hands-on lady. I actually ended up finding my Legends car. And so I have my... That's a great fine.

I know. I have my Legends car chassis. over in my shop now. But Humpey would eventually start 600 racing. This is the company that has built every single Legends car in existence today. And they are sold all over the globe. It's pretty remarkable, to be honest with you, what Legends cars have become from that moment way back in 1992

when we first started seeing and hearing about Dwarf cars. and Legends cars and all that stuff. You're presented with an opportunity to be a part of its growth. You were thinking about taking a job with Robert Yates selling parts for his team, but a Humpy insisted you stay at SMI as they transferred the 600 racing deal over. You were part of manufacturing legends cars. 10 years in Charlotte during that process. Also while helping your son, David,

through the early part of his career, driving Arka and so forth. You know, what was different, I guess, about the time you spent in Charlotte working with 600 racing versus you eventually go back to Atlanta still sort of over the Legends car arm down there. there's as much happening in Atlanta as there is at Charlotte Murray Speedway in terms of racing, Legends cars, Bandalaries, and so forth.

It's almost a mimic of the two, wouldn't you say? And so you've kind of been down there shepherding that portion of the Legends Car world for Humpy and everybody over the years. Yeah, you know, Mr. Wheeler was, and I know you, no Humpy, knew Humpy real well. He was certainly a great close-knitted friend to the Riggins to me and David, my family, Adam, Marvin, and Humpy, even in my racing days in the 80s, you know, I would talk to Mr. Wheeler, and he would offer to help me. And then in 92, I think Ellett Ford Robinson had gone to California,

and it saw some dwarf cars racing out there. He came back and told Mr. Wheeler about it. Mr. Wheeler sent him back out there with a pocket full of money and told him to buy four or five of them and bring them. And he brought him, and then he got Ronald and Donald. That's absolutely right. And Kenny to build the first legend card. I forgot about Elliott Ford Robinson's involvement. The minute you mentioned his name, I remember him being there at those first handful of events that we had.

So they basically, when we had our first race at Charlotte Motor Speedway, and I got pictures of that event. They actually had invited some of the dwarf car guys to come be a part of it. So it was a little bit of a mix. And Elliot Forrest Robinson was all over it. That's right. And competing and kind of being a bit of an orchestrator. And that was along there.

91, 92, you know, into 93, Mr. Wheeler, he forms a sanctioning body. And people still pound on me a little bit today about it, but it's N-X, I-N-E-X, which came from inexpensive racing. And even today, Legends car racing, it's a real racing series, and it is the least expensive of any sort of, you know, series that you can get involved in. and feel like you're really driving a full race car and have a lot of fun and a lot of families involved in it. So Humphie goes to Tiger Tom Pistone. And Tiger, he pretty much wrote the rule book.

I mean, you know, Tiger, even today, Tiger's still sharp, 97 years old. He'll be 98 on St. Patrick's Day. But he's sharp. He and Humphie and EFR. they write the rule book. And a lot of what's in that rule book back in the 90s, early to mid-90s, is the same as it is today.

And with a series like that, Mr. Wheeler, the 10 years I was up here that he had me over the factory, I'd go to Humpy and I'd start getting pressure put on me about, can we do this? Can we change that? Can we go this way? Humphi said, let's leave it alone. You know, anytime you change something, it's going to cost everybody money. If that brake system that you got on the rear is working, let's just let it work.

You know, just keep rolling. Yeah. So that's why it was a spec series, and it's been pretty much, if you go back to that car that you've got, I'd almost bet you that the chassis would fit on the jig table over at U.S. Legends cars today. I bet so, yeah. It's pretty much the same. And I'm going to tell you, Kenny Allison is another one of those that. is a secret in motorsports that a lot of people don't know the potential that Kenny Allison has

when it comes to building and even field and race cars and all. And I think a lot of that come from Bobby and Donnie and Ronald and Donald is his twin brothers. But they built the first 200 or so. He did. And Mr. Wheeler got impatient that he couldn't get them fast enough. It's why he brought the operation down to, he'd go up. up and you know the Allison's of certainly there in the motorsports

but you'd go up to Salisbury and there'd be a sign on the door that said we're gone fishing, be back Monday gone hunting, be back usually and Huffy just got beside himself so he brought the operation down to the racetrack and from there

me and Donnie talk about that some but they were very instrumental and building those cars and you know, what a program that's been and the opportunities this offered to. I tell people, Dale, if you want to find somebody to blame, you know, we talked earlier, I was 32 years old when I went to Talladega back in the day, if you're 20, 25, 28, and you want to drive a cup car, and maybe you're already a local track champion,

they would tell a driver like me to go home and get some experience and then come back. and you were 25, 28, 30 years old before you started racing in Cup. Today, you better be ready to go at 18. That's a minimum age by NASCAR set, except in the trucks. They're getting them air as fast as they can get them there. And then by 35 or so, you know,

a lot of drivers, their career is a shortcoming. If you want to blame that on somebody, you blame it on Humpy. Because a legend's car is what brought that on, in my opinion. You start those kids at 10, 11 years old and a legend's car. And by the time they're 16, 17, they're ready to get in a big car and go racing. I don't mean get in a big car and try to figure it out. That little short wheel base, narrow tread width, quick steering,

more horsepower to the weight ratio. You can't get a good forward drive up off the corner. Easy on the throttle, smooth with the steering. All that will turn a kid with some talent into a race. car driver by the time he's 16 years old. Yeah. So at 18, he's down on the front row for the Daytona 500. All that I think kind of came from what Mr. Wheeler's idea was back in the early 90s

in putting kids like you in Legends cars. Hey, this is Dellenhart Jr. And for all the latest Dale Jr. download gear, including the Imo drink some beer T-shirt that we've been talking about here around the office, head over to shop. dot dirtymo media.com for all the latest merch. Well, it was a, it was the, it was the perfect thing for me. I guess it, you know, it was kind of another one of them deals where everything was lining up because I was just turning 16 years old.

And I, you know, it just gave me an outlet that I didn't have otherwise. Me and Kerry built a couple of street stock cars and we go down to Concord and race. And that was fun. And that was a lot of fun. But racing that Legends car, I was running on pole night, you know, in front of dad. Right. You know what I mean? A big crowd.

Yeah. Where my dad could see. He wasn't going to go down to Concord, you know, watch us run a streetstock car and knocked radiator out of it. And so it was pretty fun. Do you remember winning a Legends car race? I do. I do.

So you got a trophy? I gave that trophy to Hank Jones. Oh, Hank's got it. Well, I know Hank was involved with you with that first legend. Yeah, the story goes. So the first, I, dad bought a Legends car, and it was one of the first handful that they made. It didn't really, my motor wasn't great.

We ended up going over one time to the Talladega short track and racing. And man, I was working on Gremlins the entire time I was there trying to get my motor to run right. But this old car, we had, Dad finally, you know, Hank, Hank Jones and Benny O'Hertell, another PR guy that was working with Dad and worked with Mark Martin. They got in it pretty serious. And Hank had a black number three out there running.

They got in it pretty serious. And so Dad said, just take Dale Jr.'s car and y'all keep it up and he'll, you know, he'll race with y'all and so that's kind of how i got to doing it after a while started riding around on their tail on their coat tails right and um we get to charlotte one night i think it's pole night in october or something and Hank and uh Hank and Benny are out front running nose a tail and they're kind of putting on a show intentionally like running side by side and shit and just like you know um they got everybody covered for whatever ever reason.

But they're dinking around with each other, not really good. Tiger Tom might have entered into that a little bit. It's possible. He was kind of slippery with the rules at times, and he helped Hank and them. Well, I catch them, and now on the last lap, I finally get within reach. And they're running, I'm behind them for a while, and they're side-by-side. I'm like, y'all, figure this out, you know, who's going to pass who? And they're just running side-beside.

I could eventually tell they weren't even really trying to end the battle. They were trying to prolong it. And finally on the last lap into the last corner, I just drove in there and knocked a heck out of Hank and sent him up to race track and went by on the inside and I win the race. It's my first win. I'd want some heat races over to dirt.

And what track was that? That was on the front stretch. Oh, at the quarter mile. I'd won a race over on the little dirt track they had over off turn three that's not there anymore. They had a little dirt track right there. A little pils mile. Yeah, they ended up paving it after a while.

But we used to run dirt there for a while. Do you run the stadium at Daytona? I did. I wrecked in big fashion. I caught one of the hay bales with the right front tire because they had these hay bales perpendicular to the racetrack. Like not in a line. So if you clipped one, it pulled you into the next ten hay bales.

And I just destroyed. I went down in a box truck riding on a five-gallon bucket in a box truck with me and another guy. There's three of us. in this box truck all the way to Daytona with that ledger's car in the dad had built these little ramps to go in. Yeah, to go up in that box truck. It was Teresa's furniture truck.

She's a thing to get you to the truck. She'd haul furniture and that thing up in and out of Charlotte. But those haybells, that might have been a humpy wheeler. You know, he was a promoter. Of all promoters, that might have been by design. But anyway, I wanted to tell you, after the end of the race, I go over, I win this race, I go over there, and I'm happy. Hank's standing at the back of his little trailer, mad.

And he's like, man, I didn't think I was right. And I was like, how about this? I was like, I'll keep the money. You can have the trophy. And so I had the trophy in my hand, and I said, you want this trophy that bad? You can have it. Well, I figured a few years after the event,

you gave him the trophy from a friendship. No, I gave it to him that night. You felt like you had to hand it over. Yeah. I was just happier and shit. Like, I crossed finish line first. I didn't care if I got a trophy or not. And dad thought it was hilarious.

And Hank was upset. I ended up, I ran a race out at the front straightaway of Charlotte, and I jumped some guy, wheel hopped this guy. When it came down, the rear shock was in a bung in this little lateral bar. that was part of the Y, there was a Y part in the rear chassis, and there was a lateral bar there, and the rear shock was in this bung. It bottomed out my shock, and it bent that bar,

like it shoved that bung straight up. And I beat that damn thing down and put a couple of gussets in there, right, and fixed it because I didn't know. I was like just getting it ready for the next race. And the trucker down in Alabama that run that truck around the racetrack. Yeah. Ray.

That's right. What's his name? Last name, Ray. First name. Can't remember. I should know this. I do, too. I know.

You know. Yeah. Him and Daddy were good friends. Had that trucking company. And they still run that truck around Talladega. His son got to racing and Daddy sold that legend's car to him. So they took it and for years raced this legend's car and then just put it over in the corner. Kenny Allison called me probably about a year ago, say, man, I know where your

legend's car is. I was like, ain't no way you got my legend's car. And he's like, I know where it is. He's like, I actually got it. So Kenny had gotten it, brought it up to his shop in Salisbury. I walked over there and I'm like, I don't know if it's mine, because there'll be this gusset on that little rear shock down. I look in there and sure, there it is. Just like I don't. Just like I It's done it. What a fine. And I'm like, that's the chassis. Johnny Ray.

Johnny Ray. That's right. I should know that. So you've got the car today. I have it. Yeah. And back then we had, they had plastic front fenders, but we did, the rear fenders were metal. And I'm going to try to put it together.

I haven't really started messing with it, but I was going to try to restore it. Well, we can help you with it. I mean, you know, control arms. Oh, yeah. So all that, I used to ride. I used to ride around with Kenny to the junkyards to get the struts off the Japanese cars to cut the front spindles off. Toriota, Solicas, yeah. That's right.

And we'd cut. And so I was, he'd send, we'd get back to shop, he'd throw all them struts down in the floor, and he'd fire off the torch, and I'd sit there and cut. I'd set myself on fire several times trying to cut them, cut them things off. But you learned a lot. I learned eight to. And that's what these kids are today. They get involved in that legend.

program. And I'm telling you, when they turn 16, 17 years old, they're ready. They're ready to go. They're easy to work on. Mechanically, they're fun to work on. Easy to fix things. Easy to science out problems. Easy to find solutions. It's a very simple car to race. And, and you know, Marcus Smith has continued that program on. When David was 10 years old, 97, I bought a Bandolero when I got to Atlanta to put David in at 10 years old, and I paid $59.95 for that Bandolero car. That's $6,000, turnkey, ready to go. You can buy one today, $6,500.

No kidding. The same chassis. There's only been one big. The cars are the same. Now, we went from a plastic body to a fiberglass body. Same engine, the same axle assembly, the same brake. program, all that is the same and would expect series for kids to learn and have fun and enjoy. Yeah.

I mean, that's been 25 years or 30 years ago. Yeah. Same price within $500 today. Incredible. Amazing. It is. It really is. Everything else is doubled, tripled.

So pretty impressive. You're still involved in that today? I moved back home 2010. David had had some success and the people that had helped him, you know, from the Barry Owens to the Robert Yates' and the Jack Rauses and Mark Martins and right on up, you know. Bob Jenkins was wonderful to David, and he, David did a lot of things right. So we felt like we'd move back home.

My mother was getting older, and my wife's mother's getting older, and helped look after them. And my brother's there. he's retiring from the bank, and he says, you move back home. We'll buy the Ford dealership in Perry. And you got back involved in the racetrack, Cordill? So when I get back home, Ed Clark, yeah, yeah, and Cordill as well. The guy that had it for years and years, real tight friend with my brother, he was aging out,

and he wanted to sell it. So I'd met and got to be good friends for Tom Legano and Joe. So I called Tom and I said, hey, Marvin's got this opportunity on the Cordill racetrack that Joey and David and Reed and them had grew up racing on. So they bought it. And my brother retires from the bank. He's running the racetrack. We buy the Ford dealership, David Reagan Ford. That's all working out well.

He gets leukemia and passes away. And at that point, I tell David that, look, I'm still traveling to races and with you. So we decided to sell a forward dealership, and then we decided to sell the racetrack. David, my brother's son, Brett, had moved up here to Charlotte. He's over at Rowshers, and he and David's all into this racing, kind of like their daddies where you know, back in the 70s and 80s. But so we sell that, and Ed Clark comes to my brother's funeral. He says, what are you going to do? I said, well, David bought the farm from my mother.

I'm going to stay here and look after you. Well, come back to Atlanta, we need some help with the legends program that I'd started back in 97. So I drive back and forth now, but it's only hour and 15 minutes up the interstate. We go south, you know, to Macon and then to Perry, Unidella. But I help up there in Atlanta, and I'm aging on out. You know, I don't know how much longer. I hate to try to put any kind of time frame on it, but I enjoy helping these younger kids, watching them grow older, get to experience level that it takes to move on up.

And we've had some great ones to come through that program. And not all of them ended up in NASCAR like the Sarnsons and Corey Hime and Boucher and Austin Hill and those guys Jonathan Davenport. Grew up as a little kid down at the Legends office. and you put him on a dirt track. He and Bubba Pollard, you know, you put them up against anybody. I mean, they're great kids, good families, great races, and they've made a nice career.

I did that motorsports program that got them involved and got them going down at Atlanta Motor Speedway. So we've been fortunate. I've had a great time, a lot of fun, and I wouldn't do it any different if I had another chance at it. How often do you get to spend time with David? You know, David comes home three or four, four times a year. I'll come up here three four times a year, so we get to see each other there,

and I still see him. He's under contract with Ford, does their testing, and he's at the simulator today with Ford Engineering. But he goes to, he helps him with some of the younger drivers coming up through the truck series, and he'll be at some races that I get to see him at. So now, Beverly keeps the road hot. She likes to come up and spend time with the girls. You know, he's got a 12 and 11-year-old and 10-year-old. So she comes up as often, but I tell you, he and Jacqueline, they're all in with their kids. And I think that's why David kind of pulled away from racing on the weekend.

He wanted to spend his time with his family on the weekend. Now, he's a worker. He understands that he gets out and he'll hustle. He'll work during the week. Become weekend. He wants to understand, including me, not to be volunteering. him to go somewhere and drive somebody's race car because on the weekend he wants to be with his family and my wife says don't you open your mouth you just leave it like it is so we're just going

down the road but david's been very fortunate he he's had a good solid career he's got a fair amount of credibility whether he walks through the garage or down pit road or whatever and he did a lot of things right. So maybe some of the hard knocks that I had back in the day was kind of paving the road to meet people like Robert Yates and the different ones of Jack Rosh that was able to help David. And, you know, so it all had a way of working out. Yeah, for sure.

Dale Senior, I got to race, you know, a reporter told me one time, said, you realize every cup race that you ever ran, Dale Senior was in the field. and I said, yeah, I think I can remember him intimidating me often, you know, on restarts and all and working through the field. But Dale was always covered up with media and all, and certainly he deserved it. But like on some of the test days or some of the early practice days in the week,

he'd come by, I'd see him. I might run into him at a driver's meeting, concession and he'd say, Reagan, how you're settling in his Chevolets? Because he had the Chevrolet dealership. Oh, yeah. He knew I was a day loan. We'd talk a little bit about the Chevrolet dealership. Yeah.

And then your grandpa, Robert G., he built us the only new race car we ever had. I think every race car I ever got, other than this one new one was through Robert Yates. And then that one we got from that kale drove, M.C. Anderson. but Robert G built us a turn-car, turnkey, Monte Carlo, a brand new one. And I remember I'd come up to Charlotte and I'd help G. I'd go over to the house over by the speedway and work in the shop back there. And we'd work on that car. And he painted it, decal it, got it ready.

Herb Nab took it to the track the first time. I remember G. telling me, he said, look, you watch Herb, don't you let him get up under that car with a torch? Now, Herb was old school. He could put a fast race car on the track. But Herb didn't have any notes and all. He just in his mind knew what he wanted to do to make it work. And if something was a quarter of an inch off, he'd get him a torch and a big hammer. And if it had to move a half inch, you'd get a bigger hammer.

And he would, Robert G. told him once, don't you let him get under that race car with a torch? But Herb said that Ralph Moody told him one time, said, Herb, don't ever write anything down, and you'll be the only one to ever know what you know. Yeah. They said, if you write it down, somebody else gets it. Yeah. Like a suitcase, you know, they used to want Jake L or a suitcase. They didn't want Jake.

They wanted his notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Herb wouldn't write it down. Now, I enjoyed my years with Herb. I'd go out to his shop, and he had a little three-bay garage out there beside his house, and we'd work on my car. I think I was the last cup driving a drive for her. We did this story.

We did a little documentation around the 1980 season, and it's kind of a little bit about, there's some stories that came up about him when he left Junior Johnson and went over to Reneer. And then when him and Waddell was kind of at Reneer together, Wadale, Wadale would end up becoming the crew chief and Herb would kind of be put on these odd jobs, you know,

kind of even away from the racetrack. That's right. There was no real story of like, all right, well, what happened to him after that, you know? Because there's a,

there's a lot of people that believe he's a Hall of Famer. And, you know, he's got the second most wins of any crew chief. That's right. Next to Dale Lindman. One. Yeah.

Won the championships and has all the statistics. And races. He would put fast race cars on. Every driver he would put on the track was in a fast car. Yeah. He took me, the first race I think he took me to was in 83 or so down at Darlington. And I said fast time the second day. Well, I was a rookie.

So the rookies wasn't allowed to qualify on the first day. I said fast time to second day. A rocket that Herb would put on the track. He'll get in the Hall of Fame, I think. Eventually, yeah, sure. Maybe not. He didn't this year. Maybe not next year.

But his day is coming. His name definitely got talked about in the room this particular last year. year. Man, it's been a lot of fun, Ken. I am thankful that I got to talk to you today. I got to tell you, the, um, my, my nostalgia for those early 80s is very, very big. And, uh, so to be able to sit here and talk to guys like you that were a part of it, that were a witness to it, that were involved in it, that raced in it, is a lot of fun for me. Um, and, you know, you add in the, the, the, the, You add in the impact that you had on so many careers working with Legends cars. You add in the other layer of your son's career.

There's just so many things that you had connections to. You had your fingers on. You had involvement and impacts them in. And it's pretty impressive. And I'm hopeful that folks that hear this podcast today walk away really, really impressed because I know I am. Thanks for coming all the way up here giving us a little time. I hope you get to see the family while you're up here. Tell David that, you know, we're thinking about him

and maybe get him out here one day to tell his side of the story. Yeah, and, you know, it's been a lot of fun for me. I enjoy sitting down talking about the history of NASCAR and even back in the earlier days. I think I've kind of seen it come from the moonshine runners all the way up to what it is today with my dad being in the early years and me in the middle years. and then David in the recent years.

But it's been a fun ride for us. And, you know, the friends that I have down to Elliot's that set the tone in NASCAR, I just stayed at Georgia. I love to go up to Dawsonville now. They've got the Hall of Fame up there. Cindy does a great job with it. And, you know, Chase certainly is kind of a Georgia hero like Bill was back in the day. Absolutely.

He cares about her very well. So we've been real fortunate to be involved as a family, the Reagan's have, and it's kind of like a dream that I had as a young kid that came true. Well, we appreciate it, man. Thanks for sharing that with us. And, yeah, awesome conversation. Ken Reagan on the Del Jr. Download. All right, great conversation with Ken Reagan.

Pretty awesome. I love talking to the guys that raced in the 80s, and especially like a Ken Reagan certainly, you know, saw a lot going on in the sport from a unique perspective. He wasn't Richard Petty. He wasn't Kill Yarborough, but he was in that moment as they're crossing that finish line so he can tell us without bias, you know,

or without influence, you know, what that was like. And I had no other. real understanding of how involved he was in a lot of other things, you know? Honestly, I mean, if you, outside of David, right, becoming this NASCAR winner and having a career, outside of David, I thought Ken Reagan was an independent part-time, you know, racing for fun, doing about as much as he wanted to do kind of guy. I'd heard a little bit. about him being involved in the legend stuff down in Atlanta, but I didn't know he was up here 10 years running 600 racing.

I didn't know that he'd been to the Daytona Beach course as a kid. I didn't know his dad on cars that Bill France, Sr. actually drove a time or two. I mean, this guy truly has this kind of six degrees of separation sort of are these real, you know, unique, incredible connections to so many decades and so many levels of history in this sport. And man, what a great memory he has, you know, to be able to share with us. We're just really lucky.

I'm glad I was able to talk to him, and I'm glad I ran into him. In Atlanta, we were working the broadcast this year in the summer, and I had an interview with Chase Elliott for the pre-race, and we interviewed Chase in the six years. in the 600 racing sort of legends car office and Ken come by and I was like oh damn hey would you want to do my podcast it's like yeah so that's how we got it lined up I like it when it happens like that um thank you Ken appreciate him for joining us here in the Arby's studio don't forget about Arby's new meeting three box get more meal for your money at Arby's we have the meets we'll see you tomorrow check out dirtymo media on Instagram Facebook X and TikTok

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