The Dale Jr. Download - Kyle Larson & Tony Kanaan: The Double, The Waiver, The Risk

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr. welcomes Kyle Larson and Tony Kanaan to the studio to learn more about Kyle’s return to the Indianapolis 500 as part of the historic Memorial Day Double. After a rain delay disrupted the true double attempt in 2024, Kyle will be back behind the wheel at Indy for another attempt at the incredible feat. Dale asks Kyle and Tony about the process of getting Kyle behind the wheel of an IndyCar and what his first test sessions felt like. They also discuss the comparisons between an IndyCar Dallara and a NextGen Cup car.Kyle and Tony talk about their history together, dating back to winning the 24 Hours of Daytona in 2015, and how that helped streamline their learning process and working relationship at Arrow McLaren. The guys chat about the magnitude of the 500 and the environment at Indianapolis Motor Speedway during the month of May, and how it doesn’t compare to anything else in motorsports. Tony explains how he takes information from engineers and streamlines it for Kyle to better understand behind the wheel. The interview also covers the process of timing a pass at IMS, Kyle’s 2024 pit penalty, plan B for 2025 and what’s next on Kyle’s racing bucket list. Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Dirty Mo Media is launching a new e-commerce merch line! They’ve got some awesome Dale Jr. Download merch on the site. Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com to check out all the new stuff.And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How many of these do you want to do? Are you just one year at a time? As long as it's fun, long as this happening? I don't know. I plan on being in cup for quite a while. You know every time it was 48, man? 48, damn. And I finished third I was 47, and I won when I was 38.

Okay, well, so maybe. I got time, I guess. So we'll revisit this in 15 years maybe, but I don't know. I won't be around, but, you know, you know plenty by then. All right, so we're going to have a great conversation. Kyle Larson is in the second year of a two-year deal to run the ND 500. And there's some new challenges this year with the waiver and NASCAR change those rules. And that might create some difficulty should the weather not be perfect.

But we're going to hope it is. Also with us is Tony Kahn, who will kind of be like his driver coach. They've worked together in the past and they worked together last year. And Tony Kinnon is, I couldn't think of a better guy to kind of help you through any of the challenges and unknowns of entering and racing in the Indy 500. Kyle's got one of those under his belt. We'll get to kind of peek into his mind about what he, you know, what he might try to do differently this time

or how simpler this process might be. We'll also ask him about last year and how that went and what were the good and the bad. But looking forward to this, let's bring him into the room. Y'all excited about talking about $8500. Whatever. I am. I probably not as much.

No, no, I'm excited. I can't believe it's here kind of already, you know? Yeah. I've really thought about it much until the last couple weeks now, so. Yeah. You're staying so busy, you don't give yourself a chance. Yeah, I think that's... Yeah, that's kind of why I feel like people ask,

like, oh, you thought about indie much? I'm like, no, because I've got too much other stuff going on between cup racing, dirt racing, series, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. There's a long history of, you know, guys that have, you know, run the double and, you know, even IndyCar drivers that have came over and raced in NASCAR in different ways. So it's not a foreign concept, but it's certainly gotten tougher for people to do. As the sports have all evolved over the years, and you both know this, everything, you've got to be good where you are.

You've got to put everything into it. It really, there is no time for something neat and fun on the side. And if you do have that time, you're going to put it in what, you're going to. you know, you're dirt racing and all that stuff. So it's very rare that we get to see this type of, this type of thing. It's extremely entertaining and fun for fans. And so, and I know you've probably seen that reaction to that.

But when, and you, you, we've talked about this, me and you, when you were with Chip Ganassi for a couple years, so you were exposed to IndyCar and you were exposed to the idea of even racing in that race. Was there a part of you that thought it might not happen? considering how difficulty it is to kind of shoehorn that end to what you're doing? Once I wasn't with Chip anymore, I thought, yeah, maybe, you know, that opportunity had, you know, gone away, which, you know, I probably could have maybe ran with Chip back when I was running, but I just didn't feel like our cut program was where it needed to be to take the focus off of that

to go to Indy for, you know, a few weeks. But, yeah, so 2020 happened, and I was like, all right, you know, that's kind of it, but we had a great year in 21 with Rick, so I just kind of threw it out there to him at the end of the year and expected, you know, a no, but it was kind of not really a no. So, yeah, then Jeff Gordon and Rick kind of went to work on it all and slowly, you know, pieced it together with McLaren and Zach Brown. And so, yeah, I mean, it was pretty much a process from, I think it was like the first time I maybe mentioned it to Rick was like December of 21. And then we finally got it together, I think like later in 23 or 20, sorry, two. And then announced it, I think, early in 23 to race in 24.

So it was a long time of kind of waiting for it. But it was really cool to get to do it. How every, I think my mind would go right to, okay, I need to, I want to know how. how this feels, how it drives. And you had to wait to do that, right? But I think you went to Phoenix or somewhere. Yeah, so let's see. We announced it early in 23. And then the first time I got in the car, I think was October for the rookie test at indie. And yeah, I mean, I remember like the weeks leading up to that, I was like super kind of jittery pumped up because it's an indie car and you don't know what to expect or what it's going to be like. So that was really cool to get to do that

first time, you know, Indy and then Phoenix we did maybe in like January or something. It was late 23 or? No, it was March. Okay. Because then we took it to the test in April. Yeah. Okay. That's right. Next time was Phoenix. Yeah. Phoenix was sick, though. Like Phoenix was awesome because you actually had to like lift and, you know, it was more challenging and like the car was kind of on edge a little bit more. So, and my main goal from doing Phoenix was just to kind of find that edge and feel, you know, what that would feel like. And I had a couple moments, you know, where I almost spun. So it was good. What is that compared to what you felt your whole life driving a stock car when, what that moment feel like to me? It didn't feel, nothing about the Indy car felt really much different

than a next gen car. Once we went from the old car to the next gen car, like that sharpness of grip to no grip was much tighter. So I think that the time that I had spent in the Nection car kind of, you know, made that transition not that difficult for the IndyCar. Just the way it felt, like, the front tires felt my hands and, like, the rear tires kind of you could feel in your butt, like, it all related. So, yeah, I was happy, like, when I did have those moments at Phoenix, like, I could feel it coming before it happened.

But, yeah, it was, that was. That was a fun test. And then, yeah, getting to go to indie out there actually with cars was pretty neat too. You know, the first time I got to do that. And just, like, visually, like, how different that looks. And the feel is not way different with traffic. But visually, it's tough because you don't know, like, who you're behind. You know, stock cars, like, you can tell who you're behind.

It says their name on the window, you know. But Indy car, it's like I had no clue who I was around. So I had to have spotters help me. It's just... Sometimes it's better. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it was the whole experience, you know, every time I got in the car was fun.

It was learning, you know, figuring out something new. Yeah. And Tony, his team, it's part of team McLaren, you've been, you've been beside him through this whole process. And what has probably been the most surprising thing for you is you watch him sort of get acclimated to something new? I mean, it's unfair for me to say because Kyle and I, we won the 24 hours Daytona. years prior so i is all Kyle wasn't the new guy that came that everybody talked about it right but um to me it was funny because so I I retired in 22 and Zach convinced me to come back

and 23 and that Kyle's plan was already going I think Jeff and Zach talked about I had no clue that it was a condition that I had to be there to help him which is awesome but so they announced me and then a week later they announced him the following year. So I think the biggest thing for me, there was growing up, especially on the IndyCar side, we got told we shouldn't drive anything else because that's what he needed it to do.

If things were going to confuse you because it's a different car, this and this, different that. And I think it was a huge advantage for Kyle. Like the stuff he said, oh, we got sideways and it was okay. It was never okay. on my book. And it's not because I was concerned

about crashing a car or like, it's just like it's different, right? You guys are more, you drive more, you're more conditioned to cars that slide more. We come out from,

for us, if it's sliding, the probability we're going to crash. That's what we're conditioned to. And I think that's something that for me, like, I remember he was excited.

I was really excited for his first day in India, but then he did, I don't know, after his rookie test and a typical car. Like, yeah, it's okay I'm like it's not a big deal I'm like wow I guess it's not because he's used to then he went to

Phoenix and like okay now the sensation of speed obviously on a smaller track and then you can feel the grip but to me he's a like his feeling of a car it came natural but you guys drive seven different cars a week sometimes. We don't. So for us, I think it's actually, it made me think different. Yeah. Which I was already retired, so I couldn't regret anything. Thank God. I was like, okay, I'm good, but I would have done things different myself looking at how he approached it. What would you have done? I would have done more races, like race every day because I wanted to be in a race car every day. And I think the driving skill, it's a driver and skill. We know this. We're talking about three drivers, but for the people that listen, a driver that is fast,

it's never going to become slow. Like you just have to figure out the car. And to me, I think the biggest challenge we all have because we swap drivers between NASCAR and IndyCar. And I think it was much easier for you guys coming our way than for us to do the other way. Because it's coming from something that has a lot of grip. It kind of masks a lot.

And makes it actually, you kind of like, makes it easy for you. Right? And so when we come to something that you've got a lift in the middle of the straight, right? like in indie it doesn't compute that in my mind right because it's like no I can go there and then the car doesn't take it so I would probably ask my team owners to let me drive more yeah so I you did mention you guys had worked together before at the Daytona 24 hours done that a couple times so how

you know having had some history how how was that I imagine that was helpful for you to already have the trust and buy end everything he's going to share with you, that probably was a very good benefit to getting Kyle up to speed as well, right? Yeah, for me, yeah, I mean, just Tony can work together with anybody, I think. You know, he's just got that good personality. But yeah, for sure, I think it helped, you know, probably just speed things along, even smoother than maybe it could have been how we'd not, you know, spent a couple weeks or a few different weeks together throughout, you know, three years of racing at Daytona. So, So yeah, I mean, it was great.

He was, I really enjoyed Tony last year because I felt like he just dumb things down for me. You know, like engineers talk and engineers, you know, they amplify everything and they've never been in a car. Yeah. You know, so Tony, it was great to have Tony because I would just have a lot of thoughts going in my head and you'd be like, all right, just, everybody just like, calm down. Like, it's not that hard, you know? So that kind of relaxed me a little bit and just kind of was able to keep me fun.

focus. So, yeah, I look forward to having Tony helping me again this year. We're both going to have to learn the hybrid stuff, I think, together. But it should be no big deal. So when I went to IndyCar races over the last couple of years with NBC, I was really amazed by the, you know, the build out of the garages, how many people are there. The entire culture and the entire approach to racing is different. I guess, you know, you fit in where you fit in and you make it work and they're embracing you to drive the car and everything was probably really smooth. But did you find any of that? I guess not challenging, but kind of were you taken aback by how much they put into that one individual race? Because I don't think it compares to anything we do in NASCAR. Yeah. No, I mean,

it's for sure. They definitely put a lot into it. And it's really cool, you know, seeing how everybody has their garages laid out and the amount of people that are there every single day is insane. Like, I mean, thousands and thousands of people to watch practice. So that part of it was really cool. But I've never been in so many meetings in my life before. I feel like they have like three or four meetings a day that you've got to be in. So that was not a lot, but it was just like, all right, we didn't get much out of that one. but no, they just take every little detail very serious.

And you have to, I think, if you want to contend at that race, and even for them all season long. So, yeah, it was cool to kind of see how a different, you know, background of racing and drivers, kind of how they work and their work ethic and, you know, having chef, you know, cook you nice food and stuff like that. Like, they really cater to the, drivers a lot, which was neat. So the whole experience, though, was awesome. Like, everything about it was really cool. The way I've always kind of looked at it is you hear about the month of May,

and you just got it in your mind that they dedicate this entire block to the Indy 500. But once you see it on your calendar, right, like you're approaching this a couple years out. You're getting ready to run last year, and you're thinking you really don't know exactly like the time commitment that you're going to really have to put into this. But you have to buy it. in, right? But once you actually see it on your calendar, can you kind of help us understand exactly like what is involved in it physically to be there when you need to be there, practice and all the qualifying and everything that's happening? Is it as robust? Is it sounds? Or was it relatively streamlined and simple? It was simpler than it looks laid out on your calendar. Like every

day of practice, you know, it's like a block of whatever it is, nine to five. But you're really not in the car a whole lot throughout that time. So it's a lot of downtime. It's a lot of sitting, you know, around in your motorhome or watching other teams turning laps, you know, while you guys are making a change or doing something that's taking, you know, a couple hours. So that part of it, you know, was hard to grasp at first. You know, I just felt like, like I'm excited, you know, I'm going to learn a lot here. I'm going to get lots of laps and you get less laps than you you expect to get. So that was probably one of the only things that really. really surprised me throughout the whole experience last year. But for me, too, I think a lot of times,

or I heard it a lot that like, oh, man, doing the double, you're going to be so busy, you know, traveling back and forth and this and that. I'm like, for me, like, it was, it was the most relaxed two weeks I had all year. You know, I was in one place for two weeks, really. You know, I got to sleep in my motorhome in a nice bed, you know, have meals cooked for me every day, stuff like that. Where typically, you know, a normal week for me, you know, got competition meetings Monday, probably flying to go race, a dirt race on Tuesday and Wednesday,

fly home, you know, lack of sleep, you know, and then go do the cup stuff on the weekend, do it all over again the next week. And, like, it was actually nice to just sit around and just be committed to kind of one thing and then fly to Charlotte for a few hours for practice or do the all-star race and fly back. And, yeah, it was, it was way easier.

like logistically than I think anybody could have thought. Will it be even better this time now because you're obviously aware of what you got yourself into? I think just the part of, you know, understanding and accepting that you, you know, some days you might not get many laps of practice is okay. You know, I just felt like last year we had a day, what happened? We had to change engines or something? We had to change engines. Yeah, we were going to give you a fresher one. And he's like, why are we not running?

I was just, yeah. We will be fine and we're going to run out of tires here also because obviously the you think about how they lay out the month it was not going to be, we need to bring away too many tires so that's part of it managing right so and say Kyle you got to save at least six sets for qualified what do you mean it's just one run and say well maybe not you know so you got to think ahead for the worst which then you're saving more tires then you go back to how many laps we do a day and those are the meetings that we go we have 40 laps today but 40 laps from nine to five yeah and that I think that engine change kind of happened early in the the practice week

so I was just like man like I got no laps in this thing and like everybody else is going to experience out of the nine to five it was like you was like oh we're done we'll come back tomorrow I said just not running now it was 11 o'clock you'll be fine at noon you know I had one 30 I just felt like I like in my head I just felt like everybody was getting ahead and we were not, you know, we were getting behind. Yeah. And it was no big deal, really, at the end of the day. Like, it wasn't a big deal. That's typical.

He just said it. He's not used to that dynamic. So for him watching other people, you're getting like, why am I not running? But then when he didn't realize he was running, and those people were probably back in the garage. So it was funny because you said it, you mentioned before. It's a different dynamic, right? I've been to a few NASCAR races and it's just different. And the way he appointed.

approached it and the way I was used to, for me, it was the most of stress for month of the year, why we're doing all the stuff. And so, and then he comes as you guys have no idea. It's always about perception, which was pretty cool, because they leveled me out and also helped me level all the other guys out. When they're like, no, look at this. So it was a good experience on both ends.

Why we have too many meetings? Well, you give data to engineers, they're gonna overanalyze and analyze, And then the same thing, from 9 to 5, we're also not running. They're looking for something. Yep. So how did you help Kyle understand? So I would assume that compared to a NASCAR driver,

we have some tools in the car, but compared to what he's used to, there's a lot more information in front of him, a lot more things that he's in control of, a lot of things that he can adjust and change. How did you help him sort of, sort of learn all of those things and why you might do weight jacking and things like that. Why, when you would do it?

And I mean, because with the way the wind is, you might be moving that all day, right? Correct. And he's used to being a guy that's adjusting all the time, but there's a lot of new tools that you had to explain to him. It was, and then we'll go through it. But to me, he said before engineers, they were trying to, like, we need to give him all this information. I said, just relax. Let me talk drivers here. You guys stay out of it.

What do you need? And even on the radio, I said, Kyle, look, we have the front bar and the rear bar. There one on each side. And then he's like, so what it does? I said, look, sometimes one click, we won't do nothing. So you can go, you know, three clicks. And like, because the engineers won't say that. They go, oh, you can use your front bar and you go, he doesn't know.

So the wage hacker, well, what does you do? while we use that to put more weight in on, you know, either on the left side or on the right side. But then if you think about actually, but the weight jackers in the rear of the car, it's jacks with the weight. And that's how you do the weighting transfer. And I gave him the technical part, but I said, don't worry about it. If the car feels like that, ask. And then I was, all I did was to filter how will let him deal with and understand the situation. I wasn't teaching him out because I said, you know what?

He doesn't know. And it's one race. He goes from one button on his wheel to 25. Yeah. And he goes to the test now. By the time he comes back, I got to refresh his mind. I did this in my last year. I did different races.

And every time I jumped back in, I'm like, where is everything? Right. And for him at first, I think they overload them. And he started to overthink. I said, Kyle, don't worry about it. If I need to press a button, can we come on the radio? Do we have a problem as talking to you on the radio? Some drivers, I said, no.

So we basically said, all right, tell me, tell the team what it does, and I'll tell them what. What button am I? Yeah, and sometimes the engineers are, oh, he's under the chair. I said, leave him alone. He just got behind someone. Don't go straight to, like, otherwise you're going to drive it. Crazy. Qualifying was probably a little bit more complicated, which then they complicated a lot for you. I said, Kyle, don't worry about it.

We play with the way Jacker, basically. on the straightways to lift the car. Yeah. But then you have, it's a, it's a process because it's memory, but also you got to click. Once you get doing it, it's all pretty simple. Like they have, you know, alarms on the dash. So like you hit the button and then it's like you get to like, you know, three cores weight on the straightway and then it like lights up and you hit the button to release it or whatever.

And for people to do, basically you want to lift the front of the car and the straight because it's last drag, right? So then we have to, so you come off of turn. for you press and the car will go the weight jacket will go all the way up basically lowering the rear but then if you're not going to make the corner like that no like it's going to so it will give you a trash hold time that like if you pass that point it's going to blink then you won't forget so I said don't worry about not remembering because something is going to blink unless and if you forget like it's just your balance is just tighter when you get to the next corner but that's Kyle if you forget For me, I mean, I'm hitting the wall.

So even on that, for his approach and his talent, it's like, guys, even he forgets he's making the corner. Yeah. Me, I'll be screaming. You guys want to kill me. What's going on? But same thing, though, too, like with the wheel and all this stuff in the cockpit. Like, it's all way more overwhelming when you're looking at it on paper or when you're getting somebody's describing it all to me and how it works. Like, once you're in the car, you know, all the dials and stuff, like the only dial I feel like I ever had to mess with was the great.

one, which was fuel mapping. Which is the fuel mapping. And then, like, really the weight jacker buttons. And then, like, to come down pit road, you just hit the pit road speed limiter. And then you release that when you're leaving. I never really touched the bars. I didn't ever really want to take my hands off the wheel. So I would just...

Which in a way, so when I figured out and he told me, like, because obviously, you know, this, it's... They're all tools, in my opinion. Some of them is just more for our heads than anything else. because sometimes like, what is it doing? I mean, it happened a couple of times in my career that I went for the bar. The bar was actually totally disconnected,

and I didn't know. I came in and said, that was much better. Like, well, it doesn't matter. It's not about feeling. It was right here. It felt better. So he says, I don't want to touch the bars. I said, you know what?

I said, guys, that's not going to make him win or lose the race. Like we can do other things with the way, Jack or so. And he never did. They're telling you about the fuel mapping where to put that, right? That's not a driver. Yeah, no, yeah, like in qualifying, I don't know, you start out in like a... So you can have like one through four basically.

A lean map or something, right? Because engine heat, it's a big deal for us. So the colder that is, the faster we go. So we'll start with not as strong of a mapping because the engine is already producing the power. You have like that warm up lap kind of. You try to give map on the electronics more power. So basically every lap. Yeah.

They'd come on the radio and be like, you know, gray four. So like, okay, dude. And then next. I'd be like, gray three. Yeah. You're watching the temperature, they are, and you just tell them, like, just to change it. Yeah.

It's more of a... It's all simpler than it. More simple than it sounds, you know? Like, I feel like... You're not really making, as a driver, I'm not making that decision. Somebody's... You can, like, you can make it more complicated.

Like, you can be moving bars and weightjackers and all this, but I just felt like it was best for me to just, like, focus on, like, making a nice, smooth angle and stuff like that rather than messing with stuff and taking my hand and just I feel like you get in a rush you know like if you're trying to hit the weight jacker button move bar like mess of the gray switch like it just gets a little too busy so I was like man I think I'm just best if I keep my hands on the wheel you know adjust the switch if they need me to but and I think too our car was pretty well balanced

last year where I didn't have to do you know a lot of stuff I mean it makes it a lot easier when you have a fast car right you're doing minor adjustments you're not taking big swings so our car was very comfortable you know the whole time yeah which was good was your um did your did your teammates have that same kind of comfort uh from what i remember rossi was pretty comfortable and fast like he had the most speed kind of every day uh pato i remember they had to work really hard on his car patto wasn't that comfortable yeah like he had some big like yeah patto had a lot of it was too positive on n3 and then he was pretty tight so he was like kind of like had two issues.

Yeah. So he was trying to fix it. And, I mean, it was a different setup. He likes to run a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah, we, I mean, we started with Kyle basically a comfortable setup that he could do laps and then increase as far as like obviously an race car, especially on the Indy car there. It's more of a, if the rear is there, then, you know, you can deal with the tightness.

And then we work towards making it. trimming out or like what's the direction little balance and I think matching the balance with the trim really right we left like percentage wise I'd say car had 10% more of a like a car that would wash out than the other guys but it wasn't too positive like he could feel the car and then as we trimmed out we kept moving that percentage forward back to what we wanted it to be and felt like and then he was getting used it was more just getting him used to it could have gone there a Yeah, but like I said, he didn't want to change the tools. Could I set Kyle look turn one and in it's a different corner go full stiff on the front bar

But then in the short should you go back but he didn't want to do that we had we had to compromise but it didn't really compromise any of his Qualifying speed yeah by doing that would have started it probably one position I had but he was still on the same role yeah it wasn't like so What was that like lining up three wide? it was uh i think i was in the middle too yeah it wasn't it was a big deal it's pretty cool like you know i mean there was only one row in front of me you know start the race so that was that was really cool but uh everybody kind of like files in real quick like right away to get a toe and um yeah so it was uh it was not as long of three wide as i was expecting you know when you're um i i kind of curious as to what your experience was like when you were first the very first time you're

you were out there behind another car, like within really good distance of that car to feel the effects of the air. I can imagine what your cup car feels like, but what was your experience like in the Indy car in traffic? It was, to me, very similar to the cup car, but I think because you're just going faster, like the effect was

even more, you know, like just the wash of the front and stuff and, like, timing your runs had to be a little bit more precise and stuff like that. As far as, timing runs. Yeah, so I mean, and I think you could see it kind of play out well, you know, once we got back for the Brickyard 400.

You know, I was really good. Obviously, we had fuel, you know, on board to be aggressive. But timing the runs, you know, like, I feel like a lot of people, you know, you start like an Indy car. Like, you're lifting like at the flag stand because you don't want to run up, you know, on them into one or whatever. To make the pass off a two. Yeah.

So you're like lifting way early. And then you're just like, you know, by the time you basically. get to like the center of one you're like building your run and trying to time that you know where you can get just close enough to where you don't you know wash the front off of two or off of four so you can continue that momentum to build the you know pass but um the front's a lot more sensitive than than the cup car but uh it all feels pretty much the same like i said you're just going faster so it's all magnified a little bit what do you do to defend the guy that's trying to put that run together. So all you do, it's basically, so what he's when you timing it, let's say you go start

finish line, you'll give in a distance because you want to at least half of your front wing clean in the wind, right? So you're trying to like you time it and you go through one that he was and then you go full throttle now. You need to be able to go full throttle behind the guy in turn two. If it's me, I would give the guy the run in one a little bit of a room under the white line, which we talked about it quite a bit. That's one of the tricks that I could give it to them. It's like, if you can run low, it's going to help you because some people can't. And then once they can't, you have a clean air on your front wing,

then you're not lifting and you're passing people. But then in turn, I would just go as low as I could. Then the car behind has to lift. And then he will run out of time passing me going into three. So basically, it's kind of like we don't run as many lines as you guys do. it's impossible to go, say, oh, we're going to go. But what you do, if you have a car that you can run, I would say half a track, somebody probably will never pass you.

Yeah. Until you get checked out. So the wing is very effective, right? So you can just take your wing out. And you'll be complaining, but it is like so sudden that we know what we're doing. Yeah. Between ourselves, but you would get watching on TV that might never even realize what happened. Exactly, yeah.

So there's sometimes, when I'm watching the N8500, there will be, there'll be some guys that have that run and they get down the back straight away and they're not carrying enough speed to clear. And there's a conversation, there's a bit of a decision to make between the two drivers entering the corner. And a lot of times the guy on the outside, you know, can carry the speed in the arc and shape the corner and the guy on the inside has to give up. Right, which happened. And I kind of wonder, like, how that. Well, it depends on the race, right? So think about, like Mark and I, had a huge crash. It was exactly like that.

I was on the inside. He was my teammate. I hesitated and not to hit him. Obviously, my ratio of the corner, he had the corner. And then I hit the concrete and I spun and crash. Last year, if you talked to Patto, he lost the race into three. If he kept it on, I don't think New Garden would have made it. Exactly.

Right? But then you're going to hit the guy. Yes. Like, Pato was never going to make the corner, but he was going to be on the outside. I can assure you after watching that if that situation happened this year, it'd be different. I'm not saying Pato is winning, but definitely, both of them are not finishing, or Pato's winning, right? So, yeah, the inside car, it's going to be always because those cars are so front dependent,

like you need to arcs with the speed. So the more load you put, the less front grip you have. So the inside guy eventually has the disadvantage. But then during the race, depending on time of the race, as you have the marbles up there. You know what I mean? In the hindsight, it's easy for me to look at that pass and say, well, Patu, you could do this.

How dirty was it out there, yeah, if you don't know. Because that was something, I think, and that's probably one of the one things when I watch any car race, especially at indie, where I'm like, hmm, the guy on the inside, and our race would have drove it on down there. He's in the preferred lane, but in IndyCar, there's a couple things like that,

for example, that happened differently, that I imagine maybe those just come naturally because you realize if you're on the bottom, you know that the front's going to be compromised because the way the car drives. But was there anything else, I suppose, that you had to remember that's not in your etiquette that you have in NASCAR and dirt worlds?

because their definition of a block or their definition of a good move or a safe move or an unsafe move might be completely different. And they're all from different countries. They all came from different disciplines. They all have a different idea on what a good race is, right?

And what smart racing is. Yeah, I don't feel like I ever remember finding myself in a position where, you know, it was not anything normal to what, or like in a position, at least in the race or it was like somebody had to bail. practice one time. Me and Scott McLaughlin, you know, practice is fun, like a lot of fun because, you know, people are like racing and letting you build runs and making moves.

It's kind of like Dayton. I mean, I never done it, but watching like people wait for each other, which I kind of told them, I said, look, it's fun, go have fun, but this is not happening like that in the race. A car is going to feel worse now because nobody's waiting for you in the race. Oh, let's wait. Yeah. Right. But it was a good feeling for him. And I wanted to put myself in some situations.

Yeah, I think Scott was leading the pack and I was second and I got a big run. I went to like the outside of turn one pretty late on him. And we ran like through their side by side and I eventually lifted. And I was like, yeah, that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do in practice. But so that was like the only time. But I think I think in NASCAR like if you were to race side by side into three, like we have bodies, you know, full size bodies. You'd just be like, well, you're running out of room, you know?

And like you might get into somebody and be okay. like you touch an IndyCar, I mean, you're going to crash, you're going to crash large. So I think that's probably why people lift or, you know, like Potts. I don't blame him at all for lifting because it's a huge risk. I mean, you're going to whatever, 20 into there. But yeah, I don't know. We're not either in the seat too, so you don't know how it like looks out the, you know, windscreen. So, but yeah, it's not as, everything wasn't that different.

different. So, yeah, I felt like indie's indie. Like it's not, I feel like most things you run around there in the Oval, you race craft wise is pretty similar. Yeah. I was kind of wondering, you mentioned a windscreen. Like when you first got in the car and started taking laps, was it, was there much of an adjustment visually? There's the thing, you know, the bar in the middle, which I think would, even on eye racing. I'm like, yeah, it's way worse on irascing. It's worse. It's worse on I'm way worse on Irish because it's just solid. It's solid. And once you're like looking through it, you're kind of, your eyes, I don't know, like split it or like turns. It disappears. It disappears. So yeah, it wasn't, uh, wasn't a problem. But I was like nervous of the first time, you know, like fall on a car like, man, am I able to see them? And what's the comfort inside there comparable to a NASCAR and temperature and things like that? Yeah, good question. Um, yeah, I mean, obviously the cockpit's way narrower. So, um, I did, yeah, I mean, you're just, you're sitting in there and, and I didn't really feel like you're, like, laying down as much as you, as I thought you would feel.

But your legs and all that are, are, like, together. Not that that's uncomfortable or anything. It's just, it's just different. Somebody's buckling you in because you can't really, like, you can't move your arms and stuff the way you need to. So somebody's buckling you in every time. And from the top, because now we, before it was easier for the guy, too. He's like hanging upside down And trying to like

Yeah like all I can really get to is like Barely like tightening my shoulder belts I can't like hardly You know I can't get my elbow out to like even to you know Unbuckle it's kind of like tough just the angle that your arms at Temperature wise I think it was pretty favorable Temperatures last year like it wasn't ever too hot So that wasn't a big deal

The helmet There's not really a fan right it's just your hose goes to like a air duct and that actually worked really well like I would be you know sitting on pit lane or something and they have a fan but it still gets like kind of warm you know as you're sitting there but immediately

as soon as you start like to roll on pit road it's like oh you know like nice air flow but yeah like in the race I felt you afterwards like fine really good so but like I said I think the temps outside were good yeah Yeah, I know it's probably far out, but what do you think kind of temperatures will have this season?

I hope sunny, 80. Yeah, it better not rain because I don't want to race. I haven't looked in it. It's indie. Who knows? It's not. It's far out. Those are the things that you should, you know, let's worry about the things that we can actually control.

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Speaking of temperature, like throughout the month when you're out there practicing, how sensitive to the track to temperature change? Oh, extremely sensitive. And so how much are you chasing that with Kyle and?

Well, we did all the time. So, but basically it's a pretty easy formula that, I mean, people should be using all the time. But we go from the baseline car that Kyle was happy the day before and let's say it was 60 degrees. Obviously when it's colder our cars, the air is denser than it's better.

And so we can get the number of that aerobalance and if it's 80 degrees, how much we're going to lose on the air and on the aerodynamics. And you just add more so you always will have the car as balanced as it was. So at least it's something close, but it will be less grip and it will going slower. but we are just in the rear wing and the front wing which you have from you think about zero it's at zero and you have zero to minus 10 and zero to plus 10 it gets to a point that it stalls but like so basically every day if you want to start with your best car from the day before you look at the temperature you compensate three hours later that's why they say in qualifying when you do early draw most likely you're going to be quick because the day only is going to get a hotter, windier, right? And so a car that was good at noon. The same setup might have three more clicks of the rear wing

because it's getting hotter and so on that. And then it gets towards 5 o'clock and the temperature goes down. That's why it starts to get faster again. So we adjust that every day, all day long, depending on how consistent or inconsistent the weather. I mean, the air temp, but also track them. How conservative do you think you were thinking back on last year in terms of, you know, just pick any moment in the race? Do you feel like, you know, now that you've had that experience behind you, do you think you can go in there and like take some more risks?

Or were you pretty much up on the chip when you were there last year? I felt like in the race, you don't really have a whole lot of opportunity to be super risky outside of, you know, the first lap or two of a restart. I think where I was conservative and where I going there again would be a little different would be the practice days, you know, leading in. Like I just wanted like a comfortable balance, like one that was never going to like, I didn't want to wiggle, you know, ever. Not that I want to again this year, but I think like to build that run in the race to like advance outside of only just pit stops, you need to have a little bit better balance

behind people. So that's what I would probably look for in the days of practicing and your race trim sort of stuff is like just a You know a more kind of positive kind of front end in traffic I don't know if you're ever going to get that fully where you want it to be But I think That's where you know the Penske guys are really good Pato was pretty good you know I felt like he could run up behind people well Which he did have some huge moments Right, and that's to his point.

You'll see he's going to start, you know, working on his bars now. Yeah, maybe. But I said it before, we did set up the car to have a little bit. But now that he's... Which I was okay with that. Yeah, he has that now, no, he's not going to want it anymore. And that is going to become even more fun for him, in my opinion. But, like, I wasn't going to win the race last year with the balance that I had.

You know, circumstances would have had to have happened. I mean, we had... I think to have, like, a dominant car, you need to... You didn't have the norm. dominant car you had a fast car we what to win that race we needed it to either do something in the pits to put you in front then that if that under shear as we call effect will be less but even speed wise because of that he was scrubbing a lot so some of the other guys being more aggressive it would have been difficult yeah our car was really good i just think like to be another level

better yeah i i felt like handling wise once i got into the race I thought I just needed to handle traffic better, which like you mentioned, you know, practice is different. Like I felt like you just get a misread, I think, in practice when you can, because people aren't really pushing hard, you know. So like Daytona, it's how they go when we used to practice. I'm like, man, my car is great. Like I'm carving through the field and this and that. But like, you don't know people are lifting and stuff like that. So I think there's some of that going on in practice. So I thought that I was better than I was. But once the green flag dropped, I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm good, but I'm not, I'm stuck in this position.

Yeah. I wonder, you know, you mentioned having moments inside the car. During the race, did you see like guys, I'll nearly bust their ass and you're like, holy shit. That was almost big. Because like that's one of, outside of driving the car and what I experienced, one of the coolest things is seeing somebody else. Like you, the camera might not see it.

The fans may not know what happened. but watching a guy nearly bust his ass and reel it in. I mean, we can't really see these little moments, right, from our view. You may have had something happen in turn two, but we just saw you go through the corner. But like when you're out there around those other guys, you see their cars moving around? From what I remember, no. I mean, more moments of like, oh, they got really tight. Oh, yeah.

I don't remember seeing many people get loose in front of me. obviously I saw Pato's on board when he drifted basically all the way through turn two and I was like damn that was incredible that he saved that and still was able to press on and challenge for the win but no I I mean there was a handful of crashes in the race but I feel like they typically happen behind me

maybe there was only one that happened sort of in front of us but it was a pretty straightforward race from my seat but I mean the unfortunate part when he we got the penalty there, but at this state of the race, he was in a good spot to be able to fight to the end. So even those guys around them, which is extremely common for you guys. At that time, they were not racing yet, which I told Kai, I said, look, after the last stop, that's when the race is going to start.

So you're going to think, oh, Dixon was much, I pass him three times in the race. Or look at Tony, and then you go, 22 goes, like, why can I not pass him anymore? Right. So some of those guys were just hanging in there and going with the flow, which is you guys have much longer races and happens all the time. So I said, I just don't worry about it after the last stop. Probably it's when you need to. And to win that race nowadays with the cars that we have, if you're top five, you have a chance. I would say even top three only, the other two is going to have something is going to have to happen.

If not, it's just going to sit there. No matter what you do, it's not happening. The restarts were a lot of fun. Like I feel like we had a number of restarts. That was the only way I really got forward. I just felt like that's an area where, you know, guys who only have road race their whole lives, you know, they like fight for the bottom, you know, in turn one. It just like stacks up and you can just kind of pop out and just roll around people.

So there's, I don't know, five, six, seven guys. I feel like that do it. You do it well or did it well. Yeah, that was one of my, but my excuse was I was a very poor qualifier, so the car was much better than it made me look better. But yeah, it's, it was good to see because actually one of the restarts, he actually pulled, he started in second and got smoked. And he comes in and he says, I suck at that one. And the guys are like, man, I'm like, I mean, he's going to get the next one past seven cars, right? So because it's like, yeah, why are you all hanging in the bottom?

Yeah. I just, we need a clean air. And just like, again, it's obvious, but some people can't do it. So it was fun to watch again. It's like, okay, because he got it wrong. Then actually, the next one got exactly where he needed to be back in. He's like, okay, now I'm, I'm good. I don't know why I pull second.

But those are the things that, you know, it's your first race. Yep. And, you know, like, you're going to miss something. So that's why I think it's, in a way, we're all extremely upset. would happen like as far as you know we're getting the penalty because you had the but i was kind of glad so he can because if he had one i don't think he would come back i think without the speeding penalty i think at best i probably finished fourth fourth to seventh or eighth how does the penalty happen uh i so i there was some sort of like issue i guess maybe with the brakes but um

like the master cylinder bottomed out or something but we we because of the vibrate we have a retractor, a retraction system that because of the G forces, the pads don't touch the roders, right? So apparently, and when you do long runs like that, they vibrated and they actually go even further. So you've got to pump the pedal a bit. For some reason, either air bubble or something that the heap did pump the pedal, but then we maxed out the master cylinder. So basically, it took that two. extra seconds for him to stop it was enough to to speed so it wasn't really his fault and I and so like I mean you make tons of runs at pit road throughout the week you know so like I felt

like I was pretty dialed into my marks and all that and but like early in the race even for like yellow flag like pit stops when you're all kind of together I would be like standing on the break I'm like oh my god I'm gonna hit the guy in front of me and I'm like that doesn't feel right you know so I wish I would have just like recognize that which I did and then you know calibrated my to not be so as deep, you know, for the Green Flag Stop. Because, yeah, once I got to the brakes and Green Flag Stop, I mean, my pedal was like rock hard. And I was not slowing down enough. So, I mean, I knew I was speeding immediately.

So, yeah, that was a bummer. And then your race is over and just right around 20th. I mean, Dickson the year before, that lost the 500 on the lead. Yes. Yeah. So it happens to all of us. I know he didn't feel better. Yeah.

But it's pretty common. Are there still some parts of the process that are, that are that are still things you're trying to get used to the details of getting to pit road getting to the pit box um some of them you know the i know you can hop in the car you can go out there and make the lap you can run in traffic you can pass it you know and you can do all the things you need to do but are there some some of the rules and regulations of how they do their pit stops and so forth still a bit concerning because i think when when we get guys coming into cup that's like that's where we kind of we're like oh man we're going to

We've got a great car running great, but there's some things that we don't do every week that might screw it up. Yeah. Thankfully, you have, you know, days of getting reps in at, you know, whether it be hard braking or, you know, rolling down pit road, pulling in your pit stall, exiting. Like, you kind of do that close to 100%. The way we approach from day one, I said, I just for you to be easier for you. every time you're in the car no matter you don't do it you have a week but treat it as you're coming in another pits in the race yeah and it's the last pit stop and you're leading and you cannot F up yeah and I think that's easy because then I was leading him to it obviously like a pit exit that is a bump

maybe pull a gear before that it's going to feel slow but you're not going to catch yourself and spinning use the wide line between on the short shoot between one and two so you can try to make a flat the apron, small little things that a lot of the guys don't pay attention, but you get in the race and you go to a pit sequence that is under green flag and you go, how did that guy go ahead of me? And you look at him, he was two seconds quicker than you threw pit in. We have also a way to measure a 60 to zero. Also hitting his marks, obviously it's important because those guys are not, like you guys are laying like on his knees and if he passes the gun, the guy is. Yeah. So, And every time he came in, it says, a little long, a little short,

and he will adjust, we have a board on the tire, on the front. Rears three inches out, three inches in, you know. So it's small details, but then you go on the last stop. Let's say you come in first and second, and that guy beats you by two seconds, it might be the end of the rest. When you come off a pit road and hit the limiter button to turn it off, what gear are you in? First straddle.

How do you manage that? You can, I mean, you get it pretty hard. It's a long first gear. It gets like 120 miles. You might barely pedal it for just a second. So, yeah. So when you first release, it's just psychologically, do a little lift. It's not going to like lit up.

Like back in the day it was even more. Right. Right now the cars are heavier. But it will still, if you keep it, but almost really close to the limiter. Yeah. So you kind of lift and then you just short shift. Yeah. Maybe you might barely breathe it, like in a turn two on the flat, like if you're doing a green out, I think.

I told you that we needed to go flat, but you said, you said, you went flat. Okay. But at the beginning, like, should I? I am like, not just wait until the race. Yeah, yeah. And pit road gets, like, rubbered in, or not pit road, but pit exit gets kind of rubbered in throughout the couple weeks. So it becomes better, grip-wise. And there's some tricks that also obviously have staggers and everything. So coming into the pits, we will go to the wayjacker all the way to the right.

Why? Because then when you break it doesn't pull to the left and you don't lock and spin. And so like you're trying to keep the car a little straighter than it is. And on the way out, same thing, right? So you do the first couple laps with more weight to the right to keep a little bit of tightness.

So the cold tires, it's easier to control the tightness that actually if it goes, you lose confidence or you crash. So some little tricks that the most experienced guys use it. And that's what, like you said, watching from the TV is like, wow, How did it come up so far ahead, which the year before, if you guys ever watched, that was me and Erickson,

when Erickson won, Patu was second, and I was third, we smoked those guys in the pits, but if you look at the in and the out laps, but like you're about to crash. Like what happened to me, it was going to be a great pit in if you made it, but it's always like that, right? You always crash on your fastest lap sometimes.

But it was like we risk everything because we knew that was 15 to go. Yeah. these guys take the opportunity and might not pass him in the race track. How are the new tires? Like when you're out there running on old tires, you come down with pit road and put on new tires,

you jump back out there. What's the balance like? Just good. Yeah, like just better for, I don't know, five, six laps or seven. But there's not like a lap of knocking off the... No, no, you pull out and you've got grip. Yeah, you just got to go away.

Yeah, it's there, like immediately. And I think I've never driven a cup car, but I think did that. tire migration. He's the dog the same like where I think we're. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, TJ, you know that I got my own Chevy dealership down in Tallahassee, Florida.

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So it's got to work out in favor for you. Hopefully that's the case. First off, you have to be there throughout the whole month, so there's some navigating around the All-Star race. You even pitched it out to Carl Edwards to practice your car, which I tried to convince him that would be a great time. but he didn't, I don't know why I didn't want to do it. I think it's because he thinks he'll get the bug and be back in the seat of race car racing again.

But how are you going to figure that out? Who's going to handle that for you? I think there was a comment. Maybe there's a J.I.M. driver passed to handle that for you. We can all assume who that is. Yeah. And so you're pretty comfortable with that. Justin drove the car last year or at some point, and they loved having him in the car.

So I think he'll do a good job. do you feel good about the All-Star weekend? Yeah, yeah, I feel good about that. I mean, the only, I mean, weather kind of just comes into play again for all of it. Thankfully, last year, the weather was great and indie, but for qualifying weekend. But yeah, hopefully, I don't know. I don't want to think about the weather, but. Yeah, I guess, like, for you, do you sit there and go, all right, just so many, Tim, what to do?

Like, I'm just going to be where I'm supposed to be and be ready to drive when I'm supposed to drive. Yeah. Kind of at this point, you know, after getting to do the Indy 500 last year, like I really wanted to do it last year. So I was definitely a part of like the discussion of the decision and stuff like that. Obviously not really expecting it to go exactly the way it did with the weather. But and then I think this year is simple because like the decisions kind of already made, you know, like cup racing and NASCAR is the priority. So yeah, I mean, I have. hope it doesn't run into any of that.

For sure. But it's obviously something that you look at. You know, I'll be staring at the forecast every single day like I was last year. Which, yeah, last year I remember race day looked bad for like the whole two weeks. And you just assume it's going to get better. But it never did. And but yeah. So, yeah, we'll be for sure at the 600.

I don't know how that would work for the All-Star weekend. Right. So yeah, I guess that's a conversation probably need to have. Yeah. So what is the plan if there is some sort of an issue, Tony? I think you're the B guy. I'm the B guy. Yeah, well, for qualifying, I can probably make it easier

because if he, even if I say I qualify the car, he's going to start less because you're changing drivers. We're going to have a bump where you have 34 cars. So that's a decision that if the All-Star race, obviously we all know this the NASCAR is the priority is that outside race doesn't count on a championship point

so might we choose to qualify or not? Right, just a million dollars. Here you go. And it's one that is not my call. It's one that easily win. My call is like, I can definitely qualify in the car I would not like to.

But yeah, the race it becomes simpler because let's say if it rains and delayed the starts and he needs to leave, I'll start. So really if there's any any bit of delay he's got to do it yeah so what are the requirements i guess for you to be able to start the car how many you had to practice so opening day i got to do a they call a refreshment which

um which i'll have to do the same thing yeah which is kind of funny but you know you do it um it's three stages 200 to 10 to 15 plus 15 laps each and then i guess i'll be ready to go i mean i I truly, it's not a race car driver, you know this. I decide to retire, you decide to retire. I'm not trying to get back in the car. I really want him to do it. The biggest question I had for Jeff and Mr. Hendrick says, if I'm starting this thing, what am I doing?

Yes. Am I parking or I'm going to go for? I know what I want to do. Well, damn, I'd assume you'd go out there and try to win. Jeff says you're going to go try to win the thing. So, but if delays I'm in, if he starts the race and it gets a delay, by the rules, I cannot jump in that car. So that car is going to retire.

Say again. So if he starts the race. Yeah. Oh. And then it rains or gets yellow. You can't drive it. And he needs to get out. That car is parked.

Damn. All right. Damn. I didn't even think about if rain happened in the middle of the race. Which we haven't, like it was a little bit. Jeff, at some point thought, you know, he gets out, you get in, that by the rules, they won't let us do that. Whoever starts the car, it's going to have to finish the race or otherwise the car.

is not finishing. How many of these do you want to do? Are you just one year at a time? Long as it's fun, long as this happening? Yeah, I think, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. It depends on, I think, after, you know, you got to look at it kind of every time. Like, if last year had gone smooth, you know, maybe I wouldn't be doing this year. But last year didn't go exactly how we all planned, so I really wanted to do this year. So that, see, that's because if I'm a fan, I'm going to be like torn to pull for you to have a good result because I want you to go back and do it again, but if you have a good result, you might not. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm not sure. I think I would like to do it again someday where I'm like fully committed mentally to Indy, you know, because it's hard for, I can't fully commit to Indy while I'm in the middle of our NASCAR Cup Series schedule and points chasing. and all the other stuff that I have going on. So, but then I look at him like, well, I'm 32. I'll be going on 33. I guess I'll still be 32 for this year's 500.

It's like I plan on being in a cup for quite a while. You know every time it was 48, man. 48? And I finished third. I was 47, and I won when I was 38. So maybe. I got time, I guess. So we'll revisit this in 15 years maybe, but I don't know.

I won't be around, but, you know plenty by then. Yeah. I don't know. So we'll see. We'll kind of, I don't know. But I don't think there's plans for next year currently. Yeah, this is a two-year deal. Yeah, so make it good this time.

Tony, you've kind of retired. Kind of. Are you really retired? From the race car? Yeah? Yes. Sure. This was part of my deal, and that's why I'm here,

as far as helping Kyle be the sub-driver. as far as me wanting to drive I think it was the scariest part of my decision and I think you probably relate to that I know it was time but I wasn't sure how I was going to react when it was

but yeah I retire for sure you know sports cars nothing no I mean those yes but I can't do it full time now that I run the team so my focus is completely there but yeah if anything you want and like Tony the other day

ask me if I want to do some of the race yes those 100% anything like that but like when I say retire maybe we should be more explicit as saying am I doing a full championship anywhere no I don't think so now do I want to do Daytona the 24 hours yes if somebody call me crazy enough we put Castro Nevis there for the five of maybe I can do that but it's one of those that you make the decisions as you go in and what the fun part of that I think you enjoy that to be watching you lately is like like, I want to go do that race and have a lot of fun. But even the way you take the race, you still want to win.

But it's like, you know what? I'm enjoying a lot. So on that, full-time, retire. Any race, I'm doing a bunch of vintage races with Zach this year. And I still race a Porsche Cup, the 992 Cup, three endurance races in Brazil. So I'm still having a lot of fun. Good Lord. Yeah, you got a lot of races.

What have you not raced? What have I not raced? That you want to do. I think next on my list that I would want to try would be a supercar, you know, V8 supercar would be cool. You know, so you watch? You ever been down there and watched some race? Not live, no, I've watched, you know, a handful of, you know, online or on TV. I really want to do Adelaide.

That track. Yeah, it's their finale. Street course. Street course, but they also have a sprint car race in the city that same week. So I could race sprint cars and supercar. So that's why I want to do it. And I love going down to Australia. So I've never been to Adelaide.

So I'd like to do that. But yeah, if there's other races down the road, it's just tough, you know. Like we race 38 weekends of the year in Cup. Like it's hard to find an opportunity to do anything outside of that. In your trips to Australia, have you made any connections with teams? Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's connections. And obviously, like, through SVG, getting to know him a little bit more.

Did you tell him that's what you want to do? Yeah, yeah. So I've talked. I've talked to him and some teams. So we're working through it. Damn. Yeah, I'd like to. You know, Zach Holmes is a team too, right?

Really? Yeah. Is there a Chevy team, though? Yeah. Really? Holy moly. All right, here we go. But no.

Just saying. I didn't know that. Him and Mike Grendretti. Yeah. Those are, that's an awesome series, awesome cars. Yeah. I had the opportunity to do it with, they used to bring two drivers like up. And it was unfortunate the year that Dan passed.

and it was right after that, and I didn't, I couldn't, I couldn't go race there, so I passed. So I was going to drive in surface paradise. Oh, really? Damn. Have you been to Mount Panorama where, um, that's insane? Yeah. I'm surprised because you've been over to Australia several times. But every time I've gone to Australia, I'm racing.

That to me is like the most, that's the scariest track in the world. Really? I think for racing. There's probably some that would argue. But, uh, yeah, the best. Bathurst 1000 is like the craziest race ever. Yeah, it looks sick. Fast.

But, yeah, I'd love to see you drive one of those cars. I want to give y'all a chance to talk about a couple of things. I know you are passionate about high limit, doing incredible things. Every time I talk to you, we talk about this. It seems like, but y'all keep, you know, y'all keep introducing incredibly cool ways to bring motorsports and dirt racing to the spotlight, your crowds, you're at, at, at, at, at, at, at, crowds, your streaming numbers, it's through the roof. I don't know whether y'all had a vision for where it would go or where it is today, but just want to give you a chance to talk about what y'all have going on and how great things are going. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, obviously we have

big visions. I think our visions are becoming a reality quicker than maybe we anticipated. So, but yeah, I think biggest news for us here to start the year was the franchise system, you know, trying to get it away for teams to actually like make money and have value in their teams. And, you know, so over the course of the next three years, like the money that's going to be pumped into sprint racing, but high limit is huge. I mean, it's double, you know, basically what the other series are and all that. So I look forward to that. The ad track stuff, really cool. You know, we run a quick program. Usually we don't have any support divisions.

So, like, you know, fans can see some good racing packed into two and a half, three hours. We're typically, you know, a dirt race could go until 11 to midnight, maybe later. So we pride ourselves on being done around, you know, 9 p.m., which is good. And then, yeah, yeah, our drivers are great, you know, young. kind of crop of teams and drivers and exciting. So, yeah, we just look forward to continue to build. I mean, this is only the beginning of our second season. Seems like y'all been at this five years.

I know. It feels like it's been a while, too. But, yeah, just proud of kind of everybody at high limit. Brad, sweet, especially, JP, Kendra, Mike Hess, everybody, Brian Walker, everybody at high limit. They, you know, live this stuff. They're huge dirt racing fans and want to see the sport grow. So it's important to have people like that.

Yeah, I love it, man. I mean, you wouldn't know it, but y'all's model and the success y'all are having has a trickle-down effect all the way even over to the late model stock stuff or the short track asphalt stuff. It motivates, you know, we see what y'all can achieve. And it's two different disciplines. And there's two different business models there for sure between asphalt, pavement racing, and dirt. but y'all's success like shows everyone what's possible, you know,

and that this doesn't have to live in this sort of financial economical bubble. And, man, it's really pushed us to be aggressive. And so I love it, man, and I appreciate it. Sim racing, you got a, you do a lot. I see all your social media content. You have a lot of stuff going on. I love it because so when my wife says, you know, you're 50 years old, why are you climbing on your SIM rig?

I'm like, well, I'll show you this guy. Look at this guy. So it's interesting because, so I was, Dixon and I kind of developed the Chevroles Sim here in Charlotte. And we did a lot for Honda at the time too. And I have to say the last few years prior to COVID, I got invited not to come back to the SIM as much as I didn't like the SIM because I was like, this is not real.

What we're trying to do here, and they said, you don't need to come back. You complain too much. Fast forward. We get to COVID. I get a phone call, so we decided we're going to do the online races and stuff. Greg from my racing calls, and we're on a call with him,

and he tells us that we're going to do this race for 30 minutes. I just let him have. I said, 30 minutes sitting on this thing, so I hated it. Well. Oh, wow. Failed in love with it. I fast forward, you know, four years now I develop a sim as typical race car driver we're never happy so I'm like this

could be better this could be better got involved got involved with microcenter I have a full rig that I designed and then now it's starting to help iraicing develop more than the car like you do on your side then you get hooked right now you're seeing the product and you see how serious they are and and and then involves too then I get a call from auto from you know the in NASCAR stuff and He's like, hey, do you want to own a NASCAR team? I'm like, okay. So actually, Vicente is here. It's one of my drivers.

They're racing tonight against your team. This is like I tell my wife, so it's the only time I can at least be the same level as junior, you know. But yeah, I love it. I have my garage at home, which was my main cave. Now it has eight sims. Oh, my gosh. I would never get away with that.

We obviously, it's separate. it. She has her stuff. But we do, I bring my mechanics there, we do high racing nights. Now I have a team of 15 young kids under 17 years old in Brazil that I actually

tried to give it back to them a little bit. I can't put people to race for real. Vicente is actually going on. He's doing some Xfinity races in a couple weeks, but then I bring them here they do the Daytona 24 with us, which is a perfect example this year. They gave

me the car and the lead and I crashed. But I own the team. So we do a lot of that. I enjoy a lot developing some of the stuff so we can bring more reality to people. I know you're extremely involved as well, even with the tracks. So that is what I have my enjoyment nowadays, apart from racing. This was something that honestly helped me quite a bit on the uncertainty of not knowing how well I was going to do. That was like, it was a plan.

I landed a job that I didn't expect it to, but I'm loving it. So it's being hard to divide that too. Like I have a race tonight myself. I organize some community races and I'm just getting beat and beat because I had the last time on the Sim now that I did because I wasn't never good at it. But yeah, I love it. I really love it.

And hopefully, you know, be helping some kids to get a grip of how racing goes. We do racing meetings. I treated like a race team, and I think if that can guide some of these young kids, even if that's not what they're going to do in the future, but the discipline, the distractions, the pressure and all that. So I enjoy it, and we did a couple races together. We spend a lot of money on the donations, but I love it. I appreciate your passion for it, and it has been fun to see how that just, you know, exploded over the last

couple of years, and I love seeing the social media content and how involved you are. it made me think about that the online races that we did back during the COVID, and I got a chance to race at Indy with you guys. And so I thought that NASCAR had a lot of personality, and our drivers were, you know, this guy's problematic, and this guy's this way, and this guy's this way. But when I was sitting there listening to y'all talk to each other, just sitting there and practice and stuff, I couldn't believe it.

I could not believe the shit talking. Like, wheelpower just unloading on people. But like for real. Yes, really. It's hilarious. Ed Carpenter and are good friends. Our kids hang together. Our wives are friends.

We actually, I had to log off because we are going to fight. And I didn't know how to explain to my wife that we don't speak because of online racing. So I said, you know what? I picked my battles. But I was like, damn, IndyCar has got more personality than I thought. And, you know, it's funny because all these people are from different parts of the world, right? And when you put them all in one little room together, it's like, doesn't always. go very smoothly.

No, it did not go but it was funny as hell. And, you know, people were trying to bring in their old, like the engineers to our online race because it was a race, right? And then people were getting...

The race went sideways because there was a crash at the very start and we, and I ended up running third on fuel mileage. I was super slow. But I ended up, and everybody was mad

because the race was junk and the name calling. And we're all rolling down pit road to our little stalls at the end of the race. Everyone on there, especially will power. That's great.

name calling like crazy. I was like, wow, this is live, y'all. Do you remember that Landon Norris came to race? And he was like, he's a same race. He was a little kid. So there's no comparison. Yeah. And he was leading the race.

We're like, Pajun was like, this guy is not going to win this thing. He's not going to come here. So we crash him. And the name dropping. It came again, the name calling. And we was like, yeah, fuck. It was awesome. My guys, you know, we have other people here.

Will seems like he has a short fuse anyways. And very passion. right so it's like but he's like I said we was just an online race I don't care y'all know it's like it's like yeah he's into it all right well hey I appreciate y'all coming through today it's fun for me fun for everybody listening to be able to kind of tap into what you guys are thinking as we lead up to the double this year wishing you the best of luck I know it's a little bit of time before we get there Tony thanks for coming through and explaining everything you're going to have a lot of people pulling for you to do well and I guess we're all pulling for you to win because we know if you run good you're not you might

might not do it again. So we're going to wish you win the race. Thank you. Go out a winner. And yeah, thanks. Thanks for being great friends, great guys, and spending some time. Thank you. Thanks. All right, that's a great conversation with Kyle Larson and Tony Kanaan. Appreciate them coming on and just willing to answer the, you know, the stuff I was curious about. and you know Kyle has a unique personality in the fact that Tony mentioned it he's he's going to hop in this indy car do something completely foreign and and take on their biggest event tons of pressure tons of

focus the world's watching and he's just like a whatever yeah I got it you know he's just not a guy that gets rattled, doesn't feel the pressure, doesn't react to the pressure, or doesn't react to the attention, I would say. Man, for me, it would be like smothering. Right? Terrifying.

It's terrifying, but maybe not terrifying, because you wouldn't even want to admit it if it was, but the attention and the focus and the cameras and everywhere you went all the time, people would be like, hey, there, there, there, you know, and watching every lap you run. and analyzing your corner and your speed and is it good, is he fast?

Is he going to, you know, how's it going to run? Is he going to run good? Is he going to make a, you know? And so everything he's doing in that whole experience of running the double last year, at least, was totally judged. You know, and when he went to run his rookie orientation, when he went to Phoenix, we were all like,

you know, digging and trying to scoop for every bit of information we could learn about how those processes were going for him, whether they were successful, whether he was up to speed, whether any challenges, hiccups, mistakes, whatever. And so just a ton of focus and analyzing that doesn't seem to bother him at all, right? And I was really surprised it, just not surprised so much, but more, I guess I'm not surprised by how he is, but it's just always impressive, right?

That he's not, he's unbothered. The best way I can describe it. The guy is totally unbothered. And I guess that's why he can jump in those, you know, those winged sprint cars and be a maniac, inches from the board. And it's just like crazy, man. I don't know. We all, there's always going to be this sort of argument about just how great he is, how talented he is. there's different people's perceptions, but there is one thing you cannot argue.

And that is the fact that nothing really rattles the guy. And he's willing to basically just about do anything regardless of how uncomfortable it might be or how challenging it might be or how much people may scrutinize the result. It doesn't matter. So cool to see. I'm thankful that there's dudes like him out there that are willing to put the effort in to go do this because I set it at the top of the show when we were talking to him. The logistics alone is a turnoff, right?

Trying to fit this into, if you're a cup racer at his level, it's every minute of every day. And what spare time he has, he's going to pour into his passion, and that's the dirt stuff, right? And he's trying to get high limit to, you know, to the next. great thing. He's trying to continue to grow that. There is not room for anything else. And so to take this on, it's a massive commitment and not just physically to be where he needs to be, but mentally and emotionally and the prep, he's going to, you forget, people don't think about. He's got to do, he's going to, when he tax on this extra race, not only are we thinking about he has that prep for the rookie orientation that he had to do, he might not have to do that

again. He went to Phoenix. Might not have to do that again. But all of the laps on the track, we all know that. But there's photo shoots for all these partners, the unveil of the cars, media, coming here, that he wouldn't be doing had he not chosen to run this race. So he's taxed on not only just the track time, but tons of other obligations that'll eat into his otherwise busy schedule. you know and he's got to pack in that photo shoot to do you know to to promote the cars and the sponsor he's got to find a spot for a six hour production day he's got to find a spot for an hour or two to unveil the cars he's got to do this media request here and that media request there and it's

never going to end till the race is over and so it's a huge turnoff in that regard for most drivers because of their passion to do good at what they're focused on and that's in his case the cup car. Now there's a lot of guys in the cup garage would go, oh yeah, I'd do that in heartbeat. But when truly presented with the challenges to do it, not many of them would actually follow through. And so, you know, I think that we're lucky to have guys like him

that really will go out there and make this happen. And we got to see a glimpse into his mind, and I think you might have started something too because you're like, what do you want to do next? Yeah. And he's like, well, supercars, but I don't know how to get started. And then Tony's like, well, Zach Brown. owns a team and you could literally see the wheels turning in Larson's head. He's like, oh gosh,

here we go. So it's like, that's just like how he's wired, I think. It's crazy. That's the thing. Like he'll, if he, you know, let's say he goes and has a great experience at Indy. Eventually, yeah, he shifts to focus too well, I'm not, I won't do that next. I'm going to go do this next. He may come back to Indy cars. He mentioned in his young. Got come back, you know, you can take a couple years off and then come back to it if he wants to. But he's definitely, I would not bet on him not fulfilling the the V8 Supercar challenge, right? I mean, if he's, from what I heard today,

it's happening at some point. You know what I mean? Yeah. Once he gets something like that in his mind and they find out he's interested, just like Tony did, oh, really? Well, we can make that happen.

You're Kyle Larson, right? Here you go. And so, which that would be awesome. I love that series. I've been a V8 Supercar fan since, man it's been a long time i was a british turncar fan through the toka game series like codemasters had toka and toka car toka car two or something like that touring car two but uh those two were out around in the late 90s and i was like damn this is like short track stock car racing in in europe i mean

they they raced and knocked the damn mirrors off those cars every corner door banging and slamming at each other. And it was amazing, aggressive, fun, racing to watch. And that's what I learned then about supercars over in Australia. Same thing. You know, they knock the mirrors off every lap. They're racing side by side, beating the cars up and having fun, and they're aggressive. Australians are straightforward, no bull-b-k kind of people. They go out there and push hard and race hard. So it's a fun series to watch. I'd love to see Kyle with his style and his attitude. And he's a lot to see Kyle. and his personality and see how you go out there and fit in. They don't mess around in that series.

Like they push, they run every corner, every lap. There's no, there's no, you know, saving tires or taking it easy or, you know, wait until the end of the race to sort it out. It's a full-on go like hell from the minute the green flag drops. And I don't think Kyle can do that. I just would love to see him sort of, you know, thrown into that mix. Because honestly, I think V8 supercar racers, they don't really, even called that anymore, but that's what I call it because I'm old. But those guys are the

most similar to cup racers that I think I know in the motorsports world. And so if there is a pull one guy out of one series and put him in another, I think the closest similarity to what we're doing now is the V8 supercar type racing in the cars themselves, but also the mentality and the racing etiquette. And so, yeah, I'd love to see Kyle go over and do that. And now he's taking all kinds of trips to Australia, so he's very aware of what's going on over there and how big of a deal that would be. Anyways, awesome. Just hear Tony talk about sim racing.

This dude, I didn't know that he didn't like it at first, or he wasn't a fan of it. All I know is, in the last four or five years, his content that he's created and how involved he's gotten in not only, like, racing online, but creating sim rigs and partnering up with, with wheel and pedal companies and so forth and promoting different products. Like he is full on. It is just ramped right up. So I love, you know,

I love what he's doing because it's one of my biggest passions and share that with him. Both of us in our, you know, both of us in our, I don't know how old he is, in our 50s. But I love that. I'm excited that, you know, a guy my age enjoys it as much as I do.

He's 50. There you go. So, anyways, great show, a lot of fun. can't wait to the 500 to see how Kyle does because last year was fun, he was close and I kind of asked him that like what were you conservative on? What can we pay attention to that you might be like,

yeah, I'm going to push it this time. I'm going to go put it on the edge where last time I was a little careful. Because he's that kind of guy. We saw it at Darlington. He's on the edge. You know, and he's going to push it hard this time, I think. So we'll see that makes a difference in the overall result.

Time for the white flag. Detrimendental and Doorbopper Clear recorded Monday, but before that, we had the tear down Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi post-race Darlington. Darlington, Garlington, gave their thoughts. You want to hear all three of those shows as they all recap the Darlington Race Weekend. Denny Hamlin, obviously with Actions Determinal talking about his win and how he found himself in Victory Lane. Dirty Air yesterday for DJD came out. And today, Hermit Trader Drop, along with a new episode of Speed Street. and then Thursday, Amy and I will be dropping a new episode of Bless Your Heart.

And then also you want to check out the merch line, fun website, shop. Dot dirtymohmedia.com. It's a lot, but you'll never forget it. Dirtymo Media launched a new e-commerce merch line. And so I don't know if the e-commerce parts that necessary for me to say, but we got some new merch, and you can buy it on shopdurtymo Media.com. And the great thing about it is, is that we're making shirts, sweaters, hats

for all of our podcasts. So if you got a favorite podcast, some of you like door bumper clear the most. Some of you like to tear down. Some of you might love the new, Bless Your Heart. We have merch for that very show. And the Bless Your Heart stuff is fun.

I know I talk about it all the time, but I'm watching Amy mess with this stuff and design it. So I love that her fingerprints are on it. And, you know, it's personalizing it. It personalizes stuff a little bit. So either way, check it out. shop.durdymomedia.com. Yeah, I'll be back tomorrow with Amy.

We'll see you. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.