The Dale Jr. Download - Let's Talk About The Trial...

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

The 2025 racing season might be over and done with, but Dale Earnhardt Jr. still has plenty to unpack in the studio. He joins co-host TJ Majors and his sister Kelley for a brand-new episode of Dirty Air:Remembering Michael Annett and Rick HodgesChris Gabehart no longer at Joe Gibbs RacingNick Sanchez is out at Big MachineThe controversial finish of the Snowball DerbyDale and Kelley dive into the NASCAR Anti-Trust TrialAnd for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMediaReal fans wear Dirty Mo. Hit the link and join the crew.👇shop.dirtymomedia.com/FanDuel: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What's that, Carolina? That's right. Carolina, the 2006 national champions. That's the first legit when you won. Oh, whatever, Mug. I wouldn't call this one legit. That was more, well, I mean, I would, I mean, hey, I'd take it that way. Hey, that was, I don't know if, well, I say that, and then I watch an extra point.

Yep. I know. Like, hey, season number two in our new dynasty, college football 26. I was hired out of Charlotte to take over UNCC. I read you quit. I was hired up. My sources told me that he was approached and he had to take the job. Year two, 84 overall team, year two, we went and won the Natty.

TJ, do you have one yet? I mean, we're just carrying on. No, no, no, yes or no? In the new game? Yeah, we only played two. But do you have one? No, it's okay. TJ was held to three points in the playoffs.

It's okay. Oh, I had a terrible game. It's ridiculous. Three points. Oh, it was so bad. It was the worst game I've ever had. But it's the happens, I guess. It was the worst.

It was really bad. I am the national champions. That's right. Did he tell you, I'm sure you, have you not seen the replay of it? Oh, yeah. Last second bomb. Oh, you'll see the videos. We're going to have them in the clips.

I got a clip of it too. I was up 2814 in the fourth quarter. Dude came back, tied it up, actually went for two and scored, and now it's 29, 28. He does this a lot. And I'm thinking, all right, I didn't think I was going to win the game, so I'm thinking, all right, here we are. This is how it is. I'm going to lose.

I'm sitting there twiddling thumbs, got about two or three plays left, and then with five seconds left, hike the ball. I had two clock on, and I'm like, screw it. Game's over. Well, I got one play. I got one more play I'll run. It's a Wildcat reverse pass. He brought the safety down into the box.

Big mistake. over the top First of all, I can't believe he got, he had like 40 seconds and like timeouts and everything and he's just letting the game run down. I'm like, why are we not calling time? We got this. No, I mean, you needed a field goal to win.

Nah, we got this. We got this. Don't down the national championship coach. Hey, we got this, man. So, yeah, that dude, he's a sophomore. He went to the NFL draft. I don't know why. Got drafted in the sixth round.

If you just stayed another year, it'd have been a top two. You got to offer him better NIL money. No. Unfortunately, that part is. in the game. Oh my gosh. I don't even know how you would have that. But hey, in the offseason, the national championship, UNC. Tar Hills, have now went, thanks to the portal, from an 84 overall team to a 94 overall team. The league's in trouble. Question, did you do it via portal or via both?

Player edits. Oh, you can't edit the skill? I think it's, I think it's fixed this one, but I haven't tried it. TJ has us locked down. I haven't tried it. It was locked down last game, but it never locked it down. So it didn't lock it. I haven't messed with it this year. It, uh, I don't think. No gimmicks this year. I don't know how they do the overall rankings because I don't like my defense is supposed

to be like a 99. Yeah. And it like I don't have, but like how do you get the old 99 though? Because I don't have that high of players. My team, it says my team's in overall 94. Yeah. On defense or something. But you have like, what, three, four players are in 90s probably?

I have two players. total offense or defense in the entire 85 man roster that are over 90. That's what I don't get. I thought it overall would just be an average of all your players. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. This is the most fun I've had in this chair in the last hour and a half. I don't know if we've ever argued. Did I piss you off over the weekend?

I'm still sour that I went to the best man at your wedding. Who was your best man, Dale? T.J. DJ. You don't need a cool best for that race? What are you thinking? Get them, DJ. Hellway is starting a show.

All right then. We got a great episode of the Dale Junior Download here for you today. This episode is brought to you by Registics. Registics is a proud partner of Dirty Mo Media and Junior Motorsports. If you sell discount appliances and merchandise, you need to get in touch with Registics. They work directly with retailers and manufacturers to get you the best deals from the leading home improvement brands. For reliable inventory and fair and consistent pricing, visit Registics.com. R-E-G-I-S-T-I-X.com.

So, starting off the show on a sad note for sure. This is, it's been a tough week. Michael Annette, who drove for us here at Junior Murder Sports, one at Daytona, passed away this past week. And Rick Hodges also passed away this week this week. Rick was truck driver for the Bud guys and also went on to SHR and worked with Rodney Childers and Kevin Harvick and Rick Hodges. Just a great guy. Everybody knew him.

Yeah. I mean, Michael Annette and both Rick Super dudes. I was really proud of Junior Motor Sports in the platform and home that we gave to Michael Annette. I feel like that we helped Michael realize some. some really great moments for himself, notably the win in Daytona, and Travis Mack being his crew chief. He's going to say, that was a fun team.

It was. And that gave Travis a platform to sort of go where he is today. And, man, Michael, just a really, really good guy that if you spend a little time talking to him, humble, he wanted to do well. He tried. He tried really hard to. to make the most of the opportunity that he had as a driver.

And, I mean, literally, you know, he grew up playing hockey. And he decided one day, you know, to sort of shift his focus. And now I continued to love hockey and play hockey the rest of his life. But big hockey fan. Yep. Just, you know, having no background, no family heritage, nothing, decided at, you know, a later point in life that they want to become a race car driver. And so, you know, I thought that, you know, he worked really hard at it.

And when he was here all the way up until the very end of his career, you know, we had no problem giving him the best effort we could because we knew that he was doing the same, trying to be ready every single week and be able to go out there and do a good job. And, man, I was so thankful to see him get a victory and understand, you know, be able to realize what that feels. felt like in Daytona. And then, you know, with Rick, even after the bud days, you know, if I ran into him in the garage area, we always stopped and talked. He always, he just had such a great attitude and personality, so well respected. There's not a weekend that I didn't walk by and he waved or I waited or said hey or something. Just an incredible attitude, hard worker dependable.

He's going to be missed. But he was a big part. of a lot of teams and a lot of years in the NASCAR garage. Everybody knew him. And with Michael, too, away from the track, like, getting to know him a little bit through, he was really good friends with Jonathan and that. And Michael was a great guy. Like, really, really good dude.

Great. Comes from a great family. A lot of really good people. And, you know, it's definitely going to be a big loss there with Michael. He's just as you hate when this stuff happens. Yeah, text Michael, it'd been a while. maybe a year or so ago, we had stayed in contact a little bit since he quit driving. And, yeah, he had a pretty, he had a pretty cool attitude and personality.

But both those guys going to be missed. I just wanted to take an opportunity to mention how much they mean to us. And, yeah, so anyhow, moving on. We're going to talk a little bit about some of the things that have been going on in the sport. Later on in the show, my sister Kelly is going to come in here. We're going to discuss the trial. So hang around for that. Basically, you know, we're kind of right in the middle of the trial.

And I think that, honestly, TJ, man, every day my opinion changes about this thing. You know, you learn something new, something's uncovered and all those things. and it just, I've kind of withheld thoughts and personal or public thoughts or I've withheld sort of, you know, really voice in any kind of opinion because it feels like that, you know, every day my feelings about this sort of gets swayed. But anyhow, it's, it'd be fun to talk to Kelly. Kelly's got a really good, you know, perspective and a lot of common sense. So it would be interesting to kind of hear her opinion of what she's thought so far,

and I've certainly got my own. But a couple of other things that have happened in the sport being reported that Chris Gabehart, the director of competition at Joe Gibbs Racing, has left. And the rumor is, I guess, that he's heading over to Spire. But how surprised were you to hear that? I was certainly shocked. I'm pretty shocked. I mean, I think, you know, Chris has been a staple there.

and kind of using him as the mentor, and then on the box for tie, that's when you're putting him on that car, that shows you how important to me. I mean, they really respect him over there. And he's been very successful. And to me, it's a guy that you definitely don't want to lose. But, you know, I've always respected Chris. And he comes from a short track background as well.

And it's fun to see some of the side projects that he's done. But, I mean, I'm surprised. And I don't know if the spire rumor is true or not. but that'll Well, that's what you read on the internet. Yeah. But yeah, it's a big loss for JGR and it kind of makes you wonder, you know, what the general temperature is, I guess, when a guy like that's going to leave the building. It appeared that he had positioned, you know, he had been elevated out of the, away from the crew chief position from Denny Hamlin into the director of competition, which is a very critical, important role.

and I thought, man, this guy is perfect for this. And they will be well positioned with him in that role. So it's hard to imagine how he got away or what would have been the result or the cause, I guess, of the departure. Do you think it was because he was kind of back on the box a little bit? Well, I think, you know, they kind of found himself in a bit of a bind in the mid-season with the 54 and tie. And I think he was just kind of, hey, man, I'll come in here and see if we can't get this thing heading in the right direction.

This is a very critical car in our fleet. You know, ties critical to the future of the company. We need to get this turned around. If I can help make a difference, I will. I don't know that he chose or wanted to go do that, but he did it out of responsibility maybe. Sure. Yeah. But I think that the idea may have been that he, you know, his director of competition role, I would assume, would have been superseding.

in the long-term objective, right? That's what I thought. Yeah. But another big surprise, Nick Sanchez, out at Big Machine. And it's a surprise for one because he ran really well last year. And the other surprise is the timing. Like, it's late. Like, it's a tough part of the year to find out that you don't have a job for next season or you don't.

It is, yeah. And maybe, listen, Nick San, these are the funny things about these deals is we do not know that Nick Sanchez doesn't have something else going on and that he's out at Big Machine because he's got this other opportunity. We don't. It might be him. Yeah. So it's hard to blame them. Yeah. I don't want to look like a fool sitting here going, man, what a surprise, what a shock. What's Nick Sanchez going to do. Hell, he might already know. Could be him, could be them, could be mutual. Well, in his letter, he says in his note that he posted and shared on social over the weekend, I was informed that I will not be driving the 48 for Big Machine in 2026. So it's sad. It sounds like he just learned this the way the rest of us did. The last line, though, when one door closes, another one opens, excited about what's next or what's ahead. So it sounds like maybe there's a plan, right?

Maybe he's got an option. He should have options, in my opinion. Seven top five is 12 top tens last year. Look, I'll, you know, screw the paper statistics. I watch, you know, we all watched the eye test. For sure, I saw it. The kids talented. Speed.

Yeah. Kids got something. So. He would qualify. He would qualify. And I mean, he definitely, to me, he was, every time he was ready to go out qualify, you knew he was probably going to lay down a good lap. And just with the eye tests like that.

He's decent and he's got some talent. The other thing, too, I like is that he pisses some people off, right? I mean, I don't love that because sometimes he pisses me off or he pisses one of my guys off. I know. I don't really, you know, that's not. But as a fan or as a broadcaster, as somebody who's like wanting to fall in love with the sport we need it we need guys like that yeah right especially guys that are competing too like not just guys that are like

sucking and just causing havoc like he's a good race car driver but creating some drama for us yeah no who is you talk who are you talking about who's sucking and causing havoc i didn't say a name is you talking about somebody it sounds like he's talking about somebody yeah who names some guys here i didn't name a guy i'm just saying in general who would fall under that i don't know oh you're beeping backing up what do you mean i didn't say a name. I'm just saying it's good to have someone. Okay. Anyway, Nick, Nick is one of the aggressive guys. If you leave

the door, if you leave one car length and one foot, he's going to take it. Ty Dillon is returning to Colleg. Wow. I'm surprised by that because I thought when Collie got shut out of the Chevrolet deal because I thought, listen, Ty Dillon can walk in here and tell

I'm full of shit. I thought Ty Dillon was at Collig because of RCR and that connection. Come on in, Ty. All right. So RCR is is now going to be working with Rick Ware. Yeah. Right? So Colleg is sort of shoved off of the Chevrolet.

That faucet. Yeah. Get the hell out of here. And they're over in Dodge's camp now. But Ty's going to stay. And he's earned that this year. I would say so. He's done a good job.

He overachieved. He did overachieve. I'm not sure where Ty's talent and potential and ceiling is, but I would say that he did more than I thought he was capable of doing. He did. That bracket challenge, I mean, he was surviving every week. He was also creating headlines with it. Yeah. Yeah, no, I thought Todd did a great job, and he did overachieve.

Yeah. But, man, is it going to be a frustrating year? I would predict that next year for him will be one of his toughest personally, physically, mentally. Because. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no. He's racing for colleague, and they've got little to no support in terms of engineering and resources.

Because they're not, they're not going to, Chevrolet's not going to be helping them. Yeah, it's going to be tough for sure. They're not driving Dodgers and Cup. This is a whole new thing now. It's tough. It'll be a hot, it'll be a hot mess. But, you know, there's, there is some consistency if he's coming back, you know, they can. He's bullheaded.

He is. You know, when he's out on the racetrack, he's bullheaded. He knows when to fight for positions. He don't lay over often. No, he doesn't. Yeah. And it hurts him sometimes. I mean, you got to do it.

He'll get. get you, everything he can get you. Yep. So Ty Dillon's returning. Yeah. 34 out of 36 cup drivers from last year full time are returning to their seats. Okay. Good thing for the sport to, or do you is, we need a little more turnover.

Do we? I'm asking you. Well. I feel like we've had more turnover in the past, but he, like 15, 20 years ago. I think it ebbs and flows. I don't know that I think so, too. I don't know that if we see a pattern, I would suppose that that might be the case. I think it's a good thing that these owners aren't being reactionary and be like, well, this guy had a bad year. Let's go get, like, you need multiple years. Zillich.

Zillich and Suarez is moving. Yeah, but who's the other, you said 34. 34 to 36 are in their same seat. Oh, okay. Zillich is the only new. Yeah, yeah. Okay. One new guy.

Yeah. Is Zillich racing for the rookie of the year by himself? Yeah. He's got it locked up. Congrats, Connor. I mean, some years that rookie of the year deal, just. didn't have no no no no i don't remember kevin conway yeah wasn't it kevin conway yeah it was kevin conway in the extends car it just i don't the rookie of the year when i mean this past year

yeah it was we're almost to a point in history where you almost have to describe what the extends sponsorship was to some of these young guys there's so many yeah just google it listen it was a long rookie of the year battle it was wild um NASCAR was like hoping he wouldn't show up to the next race just because of the spots are alone. But he was the only guy really going for the rookie title. Here you come. Here comes the extends car.

Yeah. We're going to extend his caution by one lap here. So, look, I think, you know, I'm not alarmed, but if it becomes a pattern, then it's a problem. Don't you kind of miss a rookie of year battle, though?

I kind of do. Listen. I know it comes and goes, but like... Well, this is the thing. All right. If we sit here and complain, like the rookie of the year deal has happened forever. It's a tradition. Some years, there's a very good rookie of the year battle.

Some years there is not. This will be one of those years. That's okay. Don't fucking blow it up. Like every time there's like a little hiccup or some kind of anomaly, we all make so much noise about it. That NASCAR feels like they got to go blow it up. Hence the playoffs. Hence the playoffs and all the other bulls shit that's happened that none of us really like that happened because we felt like, oh man, we've got to change that. So don't, you know, it's going to be a lame duck rookie of the year season.

You know what I was kind of hoping, though? I was kind of hoping for like a Jesse Love and Connor of rookie year battle, something like that. You ain't going to get it. I know, but it's all right. That would have been great for the score. That's what I'm saying. It'd be cool if it happened. It would have been cool, but it's not going to happen.

So, but let's not, you know, it's fine. Let's not disparage the rookie of the year deal. Say it doesn't matter. Say it needs to go away like the yellow stripe or whatever, you know, I mean. Well, next year we might have a great one. Yeah. We never know.

This will be the one year where you won't need the yellow stripe on the back of the car. When's the last time you had a good rookie of year battle? What? Cole Custer and what was that group? I feel like I remember Cole was like three or four of them. Yeah, there was a, there was. Just a couple years ago. I was more than a couple.

I think it was probably, maybe a couple. I don't know. Last year's wasn't too crazy. I mean, last year was awful. No, last year's was pretty decent. You had, um... It was SVG. Oh, really?

Yeah. You had... It would have been. Riley Herps? And Barry. That's right. No, Barry was, that was two years... Barry was at S.HR.

Yeah. Yeah. So two years ago, you had a good one. then maybe it's on us that we're not doing enough with it. Don't blow it up. No. You're going to fuck it up. Leave it alone.

When it's there using it. No, that's what I'm saying is when it's there, I think we need to do a better job. When it's there, get excited about it. When it's not, shish. I'm trying to help it. Y'all are going to screw up the rookie year deal. You're going to ruin it. I don't think my words are going to ruin it.

I'm talking to you. I'm talking to everyone else out there. I'm talking to people that could ruin it. They could tweet about it all the time. Let's leave it alone. Just let it go. Next year's will be better, maybe. Maybe.

It won't. Don't mess with it. Dirty Mo Media and Junior Motorsports are proud to partner with Registics. If you sell discount appliances or merchandise, you need to get in touch with them. Registics works directly with retailers and manufacturers to get you the best deals from the leading home improvement brands. Whether you're looking for great deals on truckloads of customer return,

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you can trust that they'll do what they'll say they'll do. For reliable inventory and fair and consistent pricing, visit Registics.com. That's R-E-G-I-S-T-I-X.com. We all know that this time of year is perfect for good food, good friends, and great moments, whether you're tailgating at the game or gathering around the table for the holidays. No matter of the occasion, there's one kitchen staple that always delivers. That's Helmonds mayonnaise.

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450. I wonder why they did that. I didn't know. I didn't. I didn't. I I did not ask Marcus. I learned about that same time you guys did. I wonder if something to do with like tire fall off. Well, what I did read was, no, had nothing to do with tire fall off. What I did read about it was, you're not just adding 50 laps to the race fixing tire fall off. So what I did, sorry. I don't know.

I'm an a . Me, it's kind of true. I know, but I feel like I'm an a . That's a dumb comment. I shouldn't talk. I shouldn't talk. I shouldn't talk. I know, but it shouldn't talk.

you that way. I'm sorry. Only TJ. It's Christmas time. Where's my manners? Where's my good, where's the good part of me? That was stupid, Travis. Damn it, T.J. If you would have known the answer and not asked it, then I wouldn't have had to provide a dumb answer. Do your homework. I read

some people talking on social media and they do bring up a good point. The races there were really short time-wise. And so, you know, maybe you know, maybe if they don't if they left it at 400 laps

judging by how short in time the races had been there in the 90s and before it would have been one of the shortest races of the year so maybe they're just adding the 50 laps to maybe get it within that time period of average whatever that is three hours and 15 minutes or whatever network's probably like hey we need to get to fill this that could have that's a great point they

hey that's a good idea you know you had a dumb You had a dumb thing, then you had a good thing. You totally redeem yourself. I bet you it was the networks going... We need longer. Yeah, two hour every 45 minutes ain't going to cut it. Make it longer. That's probably exactly what happened.

There you go. And if you're a fan, more racing, better. I'm fucking in the booth. I'm pumped. Yeah, I don't... I can't wait. What's not going to bother me? No, I'm pumped.

Give me more. Yeah. Because you always talk about we're shortening these races. Make it 500 laps. Let's go. So I like, I mean, Wilkesboro is awesome because we catch lap traffic there and it's hard to pat. I keep having to remind myself because I keep forgetting that I'm actually going to work the race. Yeah, that's going to be a good one.

Damn right. Yeah, it's going to be fun one. All right. Snowball Derby. Did you watch that shit yesterday? Dude, what a long week. Did you watch the race to finish? I did. Did you see it?

I saw highlight. Highlight. So Stephen Nassie wins in his 15th attempt. Stephen Nassie has came close. He's gotten thrown out and tech. He's kind of won it before, but then didn't. Yeah. I mean, this guy's...

He's been a fixture in the super late models, especially around that area, for a long time. Long time. You know, a popular win, you might say. But Ty Majeski dominated the race. Best car, by far, no one even close. He gets penalized for a restart violation at the end of the race. They had a restart that he clearly jumped, and he admitted so.

They waved it off, reset them, restart again, and then they black flagged him for jumping the second restart. Tomajski says, I got a little bit of chatter over the radio that Nassie was going to maybe try and jump me, talking about the first restart. I was trying to anticipate that a little bit, and I clearly jumped it. I knew they were going to call the next one close, so I decided to gradually increase my speed to the line,

and firing in the box. Obviously, it was close and wanted it to be right at the line, which I felt like I was. They made a ball and strike call in the biggest race a year. I've had some lows in my career, and this one's probably taking the cake. So, listen, there's probably two schools of thought here. He broke the rule.

If you're watching the replay and you say, man, he went a half a car early, which is what the race director said. The race director said it was close, but he felt like he jumped early. It's black and white. He jumped, even if it's a half a car before the line, which the race director feels like that's what happened.

He's calling it. He broke the rule. He did not go in the zone. And so that's kind of one train of thought. Or the other train of thought is, man, it's hard to really tell. There is words in the rule book that say you're allowed to gain speed to the box. you're allowed to sort of roll fast toward the box then go. And you could argue that he was just increasing his speed gradually to the box,

and then he went right at the line. And so in the second train of thought there, you could say, well, we've been sitting around raining. It's been a miserable weekend. These teams have had to stay here another day to Monday. We went through this entire race, which tie dominated clearly. and why would you call the call that close? Even if he did fire a foot before the line

or a half a car before the line, is it really necessary to bring such a stink onto the whole weekend? Like this is how you want it to end? This is how you want it to end, but also this is how you want to, this is kind of the start. You know, this isn't the end of the season.

This is kind of like, you know, this is kind of the conversation that's going to be dominating you know, the message boards or social media up until what, we race again in January? So, I mean, they had that they just, you know, ASA had the big, you know,

the sale, Bob sold. You know, we're all kind of transitioning into this new, new year. We're all getting geared up. You know, short track payment racing is, you know, it's important that it's all going well, right? and this is kind of put a little stink on it. I don't want to be critical of the race director

because I have a series and boy, is it a hard job? And man, have we screwed our, you know, some calls? Like, it's a imperfect thing. But I just feel like that, man, I don't know, you know, you're really deep into a long weekend. and I don't know nobody. None of us really know for sure exactly when he lit the damn throttle up.

Yep. Right. Now, it looks like he increases his speed, but man, I mean, he kind of launches right at the line. And Nassie is trying to roll him. He's laying back. Yeah.

I mean, and Ty had the dominant car all day. I don't know. I don't, I'm looking at it over. I don't know how you can call it right there. Over and over and over and over. And I honestly, have to tell you that if I was standing in that booth and I'm watching this, and it's easy for us to play Monday morning quarterback.

Yeah, that's so close. It's easy because we're watching this replay over and over and over. We're not doing this in real time. But man, I'm keeping that call in my pocket because that's just too tight. If you make that call, you can't it up. You can't be wrong. You know what I mean? We hear that from NASCAR all the time.

Sometimes they're like, you know, our call is a bit delayed because we can't. can't make the wrong call. We got to make sure we're making the right choice. We don't want to be wrong. Because, man, if you're wrong, that's worse than making, you know, that's worse than making the call at all, right? So close to the line right there. I don't know how you can.

Being wrong, I guess my point is being wrong is worse than not making the call at all. Yeah. They made the call really quick here because it wasn't put a lap later and said, oh, we hear on the radio that might be black. Because you have to. Yeah. I just. To tie, though, mess up.

Like, you just got called for. it, you have the dominant car, you have 12 to go. I'll be honest, that's a great point. He probably didn't need to do that. He didn't need to be that aggressive. Like, to your point. You just got caught. He just got called for jumping it early.

Why wouldn't you flip it and go deep into the zone? Yeah, and they would all wrecked. They would have. They would have all wrecked behind it. It would have raised the percentage or the chance of a wreck happening for sure. And guess who wins, though. Guess who most likely is going to win, though. You know what would have happened?

I'll promise you this, T.J., and you'll agree. If he would have waited, to go in the middle of the zone, third, fourth, fifth, those rows would erect. Oh, they're going to wreck. They'd have, because the guys in the back would have been driving into the, driving into a restart that was not happening, right? Yeah, they're all trying to get up more right.

They're all anticipating, right? Yes. And so that would have been some sort of an accident mid-pack initially after the restart. Like row four, three, four, five right in that area? I'd say so, but, man, I don't know. I hated it for Ty. I felt like he deserved the win.

I felt like that was a crummy way to lose a race, especially when you'd been there watching it rain, sitting and waiting and watching, waiting and watching, and then to be there have to be there Monday. Nobody wanted to be there Monday. Everybody wanted that race to happen Sunday night. You got all those guys staying overnight.

You got fans in the stand on a Monday. I don't know, man. That's really too close. Tough call to make. That is very tough to make. I don't think I would make it. Yeah. I'm not saying that the race director was wrong.

If he believes that the jump happened, then I can live with that. But I just feel like I would have just held that call and not made it. The first one, he absolutely jumped, like big time. You can tell. But even if I was, even if I was uncertain, wouldn't have you have held the call? For this, yeah. Yeah, I ain't no way I'm. No.

This is way too close and it's with the dominant cars in first. It's not like the car. that wasn't dominant. It wasn't obvious. It's not an obvious. It's not obvious. I'd like to know where the race director, like what views does he have different views?

I would say it's somewhat similar to this. I'd say it's very similar. I've been to the spotter stand. He's a little bit. He's the lower. He's in the middle. Look, this guy apparently's decorated. He's been around a long time.

I'm telling it. We're not on the race director. I would have that guy come direct my race tomorrow. No problem. I love who we got. the cars toward Danny, but I'm just saying, I don't have a problem with the race director. I don't think it was a bad call. I just would have not called it.

I just would have said, yep, it's too important, too big of a deal. Don't want that to be what we're talking about on a podcast on Tuesday. We see far worse calls than other sports get made. And that's the discussion on Monday. So, like, I don't think we need to overreact about this race director. If he jumped, clearly, call it. Yeah, but that's just too tight. Well, they did on the first one I felt like, like sometimes you judge these research.

But if he jumps the second one, clearly. you call it. I get it. But it was just so close. Sometimes you judge it, by the way, the outside car or the second place car, the start he gets. And who knows if Nassie didn't have to lift a little bit or something. If he went early, it's a half a car. I don't even know if it's that. I mean. Well. But don't you, like, if you're the racetractor to me, like, I'm looking at, where's the outside car? Is he trying to roll him a little bit? Because he is. I don't. I mean, I would, too, but, like, if Nassie's wheel to wheel with him going to the line, if Nassie's wheel to wheel with them, I don't think they are. I don't think the jump looks as bad,

but since Nassie's laying back a little bit, I think it looks worse because he can clear him quicker. Yeah. So moving on, our sponsor for today, Registics. Junior Motorsports unveiled the 2006 Registics Paint Scheme on their social channels.

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It's an easy car to spot on TV, at least for me. Yes. Very good. I'm very happy by it. All right, so here we are in the middle of the show, and I wanted to talk a lot about the lawsuit going on that NASCAR in 2311 with Denny Hamlin and Michael Jordan and Curtis Polker. Currently all in the middle of, and wanted to bring Kelly in, my sister.

who a lot of people might consider one of the best business minds in the sport. And I think for the most part, both of us are kind of unbiased because we don't really have a charter and we're not in the Cup series. But we've been around this thing for a while. But I think, too, like a lot of people, we've learned a lot of things. It's been uncovered and come to light. in the middle of all of this. And it's been, it's been really compelling, man,

but it's been, I don't know about you, but it's been dominating my thoughts, if I let it. Yeah. You know, it's, I think there's a lot of concern about what the end result

of all of this is going to be. I don't think anybody really knows, I guess, you know, how this might all kind of shake out. And it feels like when the trial began, there was this sort of, of, you know, there was this sort of idea that, you know, looks like they're winning,

looks like this team's taking the lead, looks like it's in their favor. And for the first week and continuing into week two, basically 2311 has, and Bob Jenkins, they have been in position to make their case, and then NASCAR will be given the same opportunity in the back half of the trial. And the trial's running long. They wanted it to happen in two weeks. It looks like it's going to be more like maybe three, even four. The judge is very frustrated over the process and how slow this is going.

I'm curious just about that because the trial begins and 2311 is making their case. And they had Denny on the stand for a day and a half or so. and then, you know, going through the rest of their witnesses. And they're just kind of, you know, they're not slow playing it. They're just taking their time and doing this thorough sort of process. And as the frustration grows and the judge is asking them to sort of pick up the speed, does that, you know, does that disadvantage, I suppose, to NASCAR who's got to follow up, right? Because now they're in the position feeling rushed, pressed to sort of get all of the, the information.

that they have. I'd be curious to see how aggressive they are in trying to make their case. Yeah, me as well. It seems like to me, NASCAR, that's kind of been the theme from the judge is like all on NASCAR and a lot of pressure on NASCAR. And so then to then, that's more.

So they're sitting there thinking what mistakes they don't need to make, you know, in the midst of it. And I've never been in a trial. And I don't know how long these things are supposed to last, but I would want to, argue my case just because that's how I am as long as I could, you know. So, but I respect, you know, the time of everybody, too, between the jurors and, and everybody that are involved, but, you know, this is a big deal. And to your point of it dominating your thoughts, you know,

I haven't really, I don't know where I land on everything because, like, every day something new comes out, some more interesting information. I know from the very beginning, you know, I'm sad that this is the position that the sport is in. And I'm sad. for the sport and the fans and all the people that have supported NASCAR and been a fan all these years for us to get to this point, you know. The things that have come out, I can't believe that either side would want to come out. I feel if they knew all that. I feel exactly the same way.

I'm very disappointed. Yeah. I am. I'm very disappointed and not in, I mean, in both sides. Yeah, not one side or the other. I haven't really taken sides. It's just the whole thing that's very disappointed. And I will say that I'm extremely disappointed that we are in this position, and I don't see how any of this is going to, I don't see really how any of this is going to, is helping us as a sport.

But so I'm kind of frustrated at both sides. But I also feel like I can agree with certain aspects of both sides of the argument. And, I mean, we can get into that. a little bit. There's just, you know, not in no certain order, but there's been a point made about NASCAR owning the racetracks, right? And that NASCAR, I don't know that, you know, 2311 and I don't know that they want NASCAR to sell their tracks.

I don't think that that's really, I'm hoping that's really not what they're asking. I think that they would, there's, I think they're using that against NASCAR because NASCAR did tell some other people that, you know, that, you know, like Marcus Smith and so forth, you know, you're going to have to sign an exclusivity deal because we don't want anyone else running a race before we come into town, right? And that's not unusual in other sports and arenas and so forth. And, but I think, you know, there's been something made about NASCAR owning the racetracks and that they, you know, the way they've, you know, sort of restricted use of those facilities, um, has, is helping the argument of 2311. And, and,

but I think, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, be careful what you wish for kind of thing. Because, number one,

like, no one's building racetracks. Building a race track today is not a financial, uh, you know, success. It, uh,

Running a racetrack today is not a lucrative operation. No one is clamoring to go out there and build any type of racetrack, big or small. We tried to do that once. We did. We did. We tried to build a track in Alabama. Yeah.

I mean, we were down there and some meetings and stuff. I mean, it's crazy. But no one's in the business of owning racetracks. Nobody's going to be standing on the steps waiting for those tracks to go to the highest bidder. Nobody's, and if NASCAR and Marcus doesn't own these racetracks, right? Who does? Who does? Yeah, who does.

They're going to turn into developments. They're going to be turned into, you know, Amazon centers and, you know, they won't be racetracks. And what will happen is in 10 years we'll be racing on a bunch of street courses. Yeah. You know, and, and, and, and road courses. No shit. Um, and so everybody kind of be careful around that because we need as, as unique as it is, we need NASCAR to run the tracks on, on the tracks that they own, right?

Uh, because it's really a lost or dying sort of, uh, business model, you know? And like, to your point, like to play devil's advocate to that, if it's a bad business mom and it's bad on tracks and so on. I kind of liken that to like farming. Yeah. You know, like all the farmland being and everybody's like, it's not, it's, it's, it's hardly sustainable unless you're this huge farming operation to stay in business and farming. And people are upset because farmland's going away.

And every time we look around, you know, there's a high rise and there's condos and there's apartments. And that's the same thing you're saying. It's, it's. The land is valuable. It is, it's more valuable than the business model. So I hate to hear like it's a, it's a bad business model. It, it can be better.

but the way the world is going, there's just more valuable things. I mean, think about them, the money that people are offering for data centers and all these different things that are coming out that could be in place of a race track. That's right, right? Yeah, you got to, you know, you got to. It's really an economic thing. Look at what Fontana got them. Yeah, Fontana, Chicago land.

You go over to Nashville Super Speedway. You know, that track barely made it back onto the schedule. But if you go out there all around is all those fulfillment centers. and so forth, where they sold off part of that land. But, you know, it's just the land's more valuable as something else. Right, right. Exactly. And so if we, if NASCAR or anyone really was to, for whatever reason,

start selling off racetracks one after the other, they're going to be gone and disappear. And we're not going to have these big ovals and short tracks and all this stuff. We're going to be running on purpose-built, you know, street courses and doing all this other silly stuff. And the sport would change the identity and, you know, the, you know, the, the sport would just change incredibly away from what we've known. But that was kind of one thing that I found interesting. I do understand why they're making the argument that, hey, NASCAR has tried to control these tracks and not allow other people.

That's the argument that there's, you know, NASCAR's done, NASCAR is restricting the use of the facility to keep and quell any other competitor from creating. But people do exclusive things all day long. I know why they're making that argument, but be careful, right? Because if there's a way, if it ends up going against NASCAR and, you know, the court or whatever decides that they can own these facilities, you know, that's, what are we, we're going to be in. Yeah, we're going to be in trouble. Yeah. That'll not be very fun.

The other thing that I thought was interesting was the driver ambassador program, Bob Jenkins testified that each team pays NASCAR $300,000 for this program. NASCAR pays a little bit as well. And basically, it is what used to be the Winter Circle program. If you won a race, you were then put on the Winter Circle program. The team would become part of the Winter Circle program. You would get more money in the purse. So if you were to run the, you know, if you ran a race, you know, and you hadn't won, you got a certain set amount from the purse.

and if you win a race and get on the Winter Circle program, that was huge for your team because you were going to just every week bring in more money from the purse being on that program. But the driver, in turn, would be required to go do X amount of appearances out of market. So basically they would be able to send you anywhere they wanted. Usually for media or to promote the upcoming race.

That's right. We'd get sent into town early a couple days or a week before the race, do local radio, TV, do a little tour, get a key to the city, something silly. And yeah, it was like a whole day, and then we'd go home. And I remember those. And this is exactly that, you know. I didn't think about it that way.

It is that. Yeah, it is that. Yeah. You know, and I don't, you know, I am surprised that the teams have to pay for that, you know, some sort of, I'm surprised that they have to put anything in that program. Everything that I had always heard is that, you know, NASCAR was paying, well, there's a point system basically, and then there's a payout at the end of the year. Right. The way it had been the way that I had read it.

That seems like an easy compromise they could have made. Yeah. The way that I had read it was, man, NASCAR's got this new program. They're going to, you know, incentivize the drivers. Yes. I had no clue the teams are putting money into this. Yeah, me neither. Me neither.

I would say that that shouldn't be the case, you know. I could argue the teams don't need to be putting money into that. that NASCAR wants to incentivize the drivers that's on them. Yeah. And that actually makes more sense from one of the deterrence of that program that I heard in the very beginning that teams were upset because this was going to take the, we already do that for the sponsors, right? You already go places for the sponsors. And this was going to kind of take their driver's time away from that and then need to be spread. It makes a little bit more sense now that why they were upset, right?

Because now I've got to pay you to take my drivers to take my driver away. and he's gone on a Tuesday when I need him over here doing something for my partner. Yeah, yeah. 100%, you know. So that was pretty interesting. A big conversation around SRX. And I got to be honest.

Look, this shocked me. I want to say I'm a big fan and I think I'm a good friend with Ray Evernham. Right. And when he started talking about SRX and what he wanted to do, in his mind, he wanted to create or recreate IROC. And the initial idea of SRX as a series that would go into these local markets and you would bring out these retired guys and some unique personalities. Different forms of racing. Yep, different forms of racing.

And offer up a car to the local hero. Yeah, I love that part. The original idea of SRX in my mind was a good idea. I will say, though, I wasn't interested in it personally. And it morphed. I know. Out of the gate, I just didn't have the bandwidth. I didn't get into it.

I watched it. I liked it. Yeah. I wasn't a fan. I didn't really watch too much of it. I would see some clips and stuff and go, yeah, okay, that's cool. But it was kind of a made-for-TV deal. and, you know, I don't know.

I just, I didn't get into it, and that's fine. You know, personally, I wasn't that, I certainly am so, since I, so taking, you know, no offense to anybody out there that was SRX fans or anybody that worked in the series, Tony Jr. worked in the series and all kinds of cool people, but I wasn't, I wasn't into it. And to hear that they were even remotely, the least hit, least bit threatened is so surprising to me because they're this giant that's NASCAR and SRX is just this little thing you know it's like years to recreate what NASCAR is yeah and they were like there's 12 cars right they're just barely getting by financially they're tearing up so much they had no idea he's going to tear up all that and you know in the end they couldn't make the money work SRX went away because it's expensive to operate and the money's money, you know, the network, the viewership numbers didn't justify the TV contract, and the TV contract couldn't afford the series.

And so it just financially didn't really work. You know, I am surprised by some of the comments that I read from Phelps, or I mean, sorry, from O'Donnell and a couple other people about, man, we got to go, we got to put an end to this or we got to, you know, we got to go take a look at this. Again, to me, it's such a little piece of the pie. Yeah. Why are we worried?

I think the ratings is why they were worried, though. I don't care. I mean, people were going to be curious. And when I... Like, what were the ratings comparative? Listen, they were... So a redacted name in these text threads said they outrated Xfinity and trucks last week. And it isn't some local dirt track stuff.

Yeah. And it... But it was on ESPN, I think. Like, it was a big network. I know. And I'm not alarmed at all by that. Now, you know, I also am not the one that's having to go out and try to secure a new TV deal.

And if I've got to walk in the room and go, man, I'm trying to sell a truck or a Xfinity package to a CW, and they're like, yeah, we're not going to pay you, but X, Y, and Z, because SRX is doing these numbers and they're getting this, you know, it sort of sets the value, right? Is that the concern, you think? Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, I've always been told from a business perspective,

competition is good for you. Competition keeps you keen. It keeps you thinking. about what's next and all of that. And so, I mean, I get that, you know, but there's always going to be, I get Travis's point, there's always going to be something that that is going to outdo you, somewhere, somehow, something, you know, this past weekend, the Gateway Dirt Nationals, highest rated show and flow racing, wouldn't cars tour, wouldn't late model NASCAR or something of that

nature want to be the highest rated, absolutely. What do we need to do different? You know, I don't know. So that's how you got to kind of look at it. It gets you thinking. It gets you working in that direction. Yeah. Why does that work?

What's so awesome about it? Yeah. So, yeah. I was really surprised by that. I never saw no, no disrespect, but I never, I never would have worried or considered SRX an issue or a problem. Yeah. And I would have looked at what they were doing. And like you, to your point, Kelly, I would have looked what they're, look at what they're doing.

Really figuring the way to work together. Why do people like it? Yeah. Can we blend? Can we work together? Yeah. What can we do? Yeah.

It was interesting because, you know, you had, it did morph. You know, you had drivers, Denny and Chase and Blaney and all these guys. But they were going over there. Chase goes over there to race with his dad, right? Have a little fun. Yeah. You know, Blaney with his dad. You know.

Not something you can do at an NASCAR race. Yeah. Too easy. And they were getting paid to go out there and do it for a little bit of money. You know, I get it. You know, I just, you know, and I talked to some of the cup drivers that had, their current drivers that had went over there and tried it, you know, and they were like, yeah, it's fun.

It's all right. The cars, you know, the cars are, as the season goes on, the cars are kind of getting banged up and used up, and it's a little bit harder for the cars to be even, and you kind of don't know what you're getting into, whether you're going to have a really fast car, maybe one of the cars that's not doing everything right. And that's tough. That's why it was tough for the series, I think, because over the course of the season, you know, just general wear and tear and all of those things,

you know, it's no different than your kind of pay-to-ride go-cart track down the road. You know, you're going to show up, you're going to look at the carts sitting there. You're going to watch the first race and see which one is the fastest. Right, yeah. I want to get on a good one. Put me on a good one, you know. You know, but it was fun and entertaining. And it made for TV.

And I was just really kind of surprised by that. There were a couple of lines, too. Steve O'Donnell's quoted as saying, Wait Till Jr. says he is running an event. I was asked to run SRX and didn't really have any interest in doing it. We were getting involved in, you know, we had our late model team, and I was kind of getting back into driving late models,

I was going to, if I was, if I knew I only had enough bandwidth to run about three to five races a year, I was going to do our XRX wasn't going to be it. Right. Yeah, and I was going to run some late models. Yeah. Steve says, they will go to North Wilsonboro with, with SM and Junior, if we're not careful.

We need to be the first back. I'm surprised. Was that before North Westmore maybe? No, yeah, it had to been before. Okay, before. Yeah. This was, yeah. If I had to guess most of these text messages

are anywhere around 22, 23. Yeah. So we had just taken, maybe we were just June 29th, 2020. Is that the first weed eater? No, I think we ran. When did we run? first late model race there.

Let's see. It's 25, so 23. 23? 3? 2. Anyway. Anyhow, it doesn't really matter. Yeah. I want to, you know, listen,

there's a lot of stuff about NASCAR and in all of this that I don't know. I don't know everything about how they run things and I certainly didn't know how they felt about, you know, some things and how these text messages have unveiled some things.

But I'll tell you, thing I do know is that North Wilkesboro came back because of Marcus Smith. Like I don't. And Dale Jr. Well, but yes. Give yourself some credit. I will. I won't, I don't feel comfortable doing it.

NASCAR. You know, of course. Didn't. No. They didn't put anything in to making a comeback for it. They didn't play any role. Yeah. Now they have to go.

When Marcus comes up and says, man, I've got this track back together. Yeah. I want to put it on the schedule. They've got to go, okay, good. Yeah, what's the consideration? Yeah. But look, NASCAR never was going, guys, we've got to get Wilkesboro going. You know, physically, they were never, you know, I don't, you know, and I don't want, this isn't a knock to them.

This isn't like a, you know, this isn't a knock to them. They shouldn't take this as an insult. But Wilkesboro is back because of everybody else, right? A lot of hard work and investing from SMI. Yeah. Yeah. The government, our locals, government and the town, a lot of volunteers, fucking 20 years of volunteers, people like, you know, just even keeping the grass mode for 20 years,

all of those reasons are, you know, the fact that they just kept the track in somewhat reasonable shape to even be considered to be brought back. Those people should be committed. I mean, you know, we can go on about this, but I know that's O'Don. Donald's like in his text messages saying, we've got to get back to Wilkesboro. But they weren't actively like boots on the ground

part of the reason why Wilkesboro is back. And so you know. And concerning what would overshadow them from coming back because they're the ultimate thing. I know. So what is going to, you know, to his point of we need to be the first back

like, yeah. What really could go there as the first thing and overshadow the biggest form of motor sports. Look, I was happy to be part of Wilkesboro in its return, whatever role I really played in all of that. You know, we went there with our cars tour and we got a ton of grace from fans.

Fans were like, I don't care. I'm happy to be here. I want to see a race. And we, that night was a dream. It didn't even, I don't even feel like it was real. And so, you know, I think Marcus saw that. And then me and Marcus was like, holy shit, we do need to bring this back. What was it?

You know, damn, you know. And so me and him go up to, you know, me and him are out in Raleigh and talking to the government and talking to local officials. And we're doing everything we can. We met with the state officials and, you know, trying to do everything we could. And, you know, and then they brought it, he brought it back. Marcus brought it back. And so I wasn't surprised to read about North Willsboro and their text messages. I was surprised to hear how they framed it.

Like, we got to get back there. That's what we got to do. That's how we beat XRX. I think it's hard for us to understand the threat because like when we look at our own business and everything that we do and how we're made up and what our dad always looked at and all the legacy of our family and all. I don't think we ever, we didn't ever like look at things as like a threat and deter and bad mouth and talk.

We look at it like, how can we make this better? What can we do together? You know, that kind of thing. And that's what's like the most surprising thing to me is like, I agree. That's what I go into things with, that mindset. Bowman Gray's mentioned in there as well. And I don't know how I articulate this, but we, you know,

we went out to the L.A. Coliseum. I love the idea on paper, but we should have never. Like that's the part about NASCAR that's frustrating for me is that we eventually get to where we're supposed to be. But like I try a bunch of things. We try a bunch of things that we don't need to try. That don't pan out. That don't pan out. But we eventually like, oh, this was the answer.

It was Bowman Gray, you know. Because like literally Bowman Gray is part of our, you know, that's a part of the original seasoning that created NASCAR. like Bowman Gray is like part of the very beginning of our sport. It's like Wrigley Field and, you know, what were we doing out in L.A. at this Coliseum that we had no like, you know, personal connection to. But we eventually end up where we belong, you know, and where we should be. And so I don't hate the idea of the Coliseum. I really don't.

But like we literally had that right. under our nose. And now what we've, here we are. And so those was, and the same thing with Wiltsboro,

like, Willisbury should have came back way before it did, right? And it just took a little bit of, you know, inspiration to sort of help some people

understand why that needed to happen. It's here and here we are. But I think the other thing that, the next thing I would kind of wanted to move on to was 2311s

investment in the sport. Kelly, you and I had had some conversations, and one of the things that I feel like that if you want to look at why 2311 is doing this, look at the investment. It's insane. The building, $45 million for the shop, all the money they've spent to acquire charters.

They have built an insanely. respectable operation in a very short period of time. A lot of teams, like Bob Jenkins, for example, a lot of teams sort of have to have this slow churn, right, to eventually possibly build up into a reasonable operation. Spire is a great example of that as well. But Denny and them came in, they put the money on the table, and they're all in. that is the that is probably the

foundation of the reason you know why they want to go to court and try to get a better deal right they put all this money in they're doing everything they can to be a great you know representative of the of the sport

and they're looking for you know they're looking for that same support coming back and they just don't feel like that the the charter agreement is fair right need to even give more thought because this thought just popped in my mind. But, you know, obviously, yeah, we talked about the investment. So they've, they've sat here and they've made these

investments under the business model that they knew was the business model. And under the business model that Danny Hamlin's known ever since he's been in the sport. And so, you know, here he is, has brought Jordan in to the business model. They've invested all of this stuff. And then, not that it's all of a sudden a problem, but I think the real problem is the permanency last. lack of permanency for the charter. In the same breath, you know, and I said this to you earlier, is what is it ultimately that they won't? And, you know, is it a certain level of investment return that they won't?

We were talking about one of the points that, you know, I thought was really interesting is there's a lot of conversation about NASCAR making $100 million last year. Well, every business that I know of is trying to be in business to be profitable. If you're not in business to be profitable, then I don't really know what you're doing in business. And most businesses want to make 30 to 50% return. So I don't know what 100 million is of what. I don't know the revenue number of NASCAR. If it's 10%, it's not that much revenue.

Even though $100 million is a lot of money. But not in the scheme of the business that you're running. If it's 50%, then, hey, give up a little bit. But I think it's that permanency in terms of the seven-year agreement. So they want to try to get more if it's going to be permanent. Yep. So this seven year, every seven years gives them the opportunity to negotiate for more. So I'm just really curious like where, you know, I've seen the conversation with Jordan, you know, when he sold the Hornets, what do he make 400 million?

I don't know, something crazy. You know, is that what they're trying to get to when charters are only trading for, you know, 45 million right now? I think it's crazy that a charter trades for 45 million on a seven-year, not permanent agreement, which is crazy. We've talked about that in our whole couple of years of trying to acquire charter. It's like you don't want to invest that much money when in seven years you don't know what it's going to look like. So I get that part of their argument. I get that part of the argument. But at the same time, they've made a lot of investment.

Bob Jenkins has made a lot of investment and he's been doing it for, I don't know how long he's been in business, 15 years, you know, and made the investments year after year after year and, you know, hadn't closed up or hadn't said a word or, you know, whatever it is. Right. So same thing for our business. We're in the same boat. You know, we make a little money some years. We don't make a little money some years. And we love what we do. And, you know, it's what we know. It's our platform. It's our brand, you know. And we, you know, if we wanted to do something different, we would, right? To go out and make money elsewhere or whatever. So, yeah, it's really interesting what the ultimate goal is for that they're fighting for. Well, I know what the lawsuit says they are trying to prove, but I don't know what their ultimate goal. Owning, you know, being an owner or participating in motorsports of any kind, of any kind has never been a profitable, you know, business. You know, racing, we always have known that to go to a racetrack, whether you're running locally or whether you're running in. you know, the upper top ranks of NASCAR, you're going to spend a lot of time pulling together resources financially

to enter the car and go compete. And your plan is that those resources that you piled together are going to help you pay for the process and you're going to walk out of there without owing any money. Yeah. Not walking out of there with a 30% profit. Right. Right?

That was we. It's never worked that way. worked that way. I remember dad talking about 1998 with the AC Delco and different sponsorship models and all this kind of stuff. It's never worked that way. It has never ever worked that way. And so Michael and Curtis walk in

and pull the curtain back and go, damn, why are y'all doing it like this? Well, you know, it's kind of the way it's always been. Racing has always been this way. Racing in any form. Racing in any series. Motorcycles, I don't care what it is. This is how it's always worked.

It's never been a, it's never been something people have got into it and made a lot of money. And so, you know, on the competition side. Yeah. But they look at it and they're like, well, we see an opportunity, you know, to turn this into something that could be, you know. And they look at sticking ball or basketball and say, well, there's franchises, there's value that, you know, there's opportunity to really kind of make this similar. And I think that's the general idea. Landon Castle brought up some points. during his podcast.

He has a podcast of Parker Cleggerman called The Money Lap. They're good dudes. Landon's the thinker. Parker as well. And they're interesting to listen to. But anyways, the general idea, why can't it be free enterprise? Why can't all of the money, right, that's being dedicated to the teams through this charter agreement? Why can't that be dumped into the race purse and the teams go out and compete for the money through performance alone?

right, to become profitable. Landon thinks or said that it's not on NASCAR to have to guarantee that every team in the series is profitable, right? There's no business model in the world that exists like that, right? Or everybody would just own NASCAR teams. And so why isn't there a pathway through performance at the racetrack, on the racetrack, where NASCAR would be responsible to reward the teams that are actually

actually out there performing. Let's remember that the charters were created strictly as a guarantee to get your car in the field, right? Yeah. There were a couple things going on in the sport back then. You had field fillers and starting parks that were sort of, you know. Clawing up some of the revenue. Yeah, they were there to run a few laps and park the car and grab the money from the back of the purse and go home. And that was a business model that they made work, right?

and they were going home and making them, you know, a couple thousand dollars a week. And they weren't making an investment like some of the other teams. Yeah, the other teams are out there going, well, damn, you know, that ain't right. So NASCAR said, and you had teams also trying to sell sponsorship, and they would sell the sponsor to, let's say selling a sponsor to Arby's. And they're like, you know, yeah, we're going to run 36 races. And Arby's is like, you're going to be in all 36 on the broadcast. Well, we hope so.

We hope we qualify and all of them. Well, what do you mean you hope so? You know, and so they gave me some security. Yeah, that was the reasons for the charter. Here's your guaranteed spot. Go sell that to a partner. And we're going to eliminate the starting part because we're not going to pay very well outside of the charter positions. And that's what it did.

And now here we are with literally, you know, pretty much every race, only 36 cars showing up to run. Running as an open team is a super de breeder. challenge. The charters weren't ever intended to be a franchise. They call them charters for a reason. They didn't call them franchises, right? And they wanted to, I think, you know, NASCAR's intention was to sort of, you know, steer away from it, you know, being a franchise model.

Yeah. So. So initially when they were trading charters back and forth for a million, two, million, three million, it was kind of like your guaranteed start. That's it. which was like buying point it was the same as buying the points right so if i got a sponsorship from somebody i don't mind spending that money to then guarantee myself because then my sponsorship works out or whatever and then that goes against i mean that goes for what they're saying performance

even thinking about the start and parks and the other teams if you're investing and you're making more money and you're finishing the top 10 you're making more money than the starting part is investing so that's a performance that's a pay on performance so if the identity of the charter remains is nothing more than a guaranteed entry into every single... They're paying $35 million is a lot for that. Well, if it is, if that's what it is, if it's a... Let's say that, you know,

if the charter remains nothing more than a guaranteed entry into a single event, I think that the values remain where they are today. Yeah. All right. What the teams have recognized is that if those charters were to become permanent

and therefore basically a franchise, the values are well north of $150 million. So you're sitting there with a charter, right, that is worth... let's say 25, and by the stroke of Jim Francis Pinn, it will be now $150 million, right? You know, if you're a charter owner, of course, you're hoping for that to happen.

And I believe, you know, secretly, even the people that have signed the charter agreement are hoping that some way, somehow, that in the end, these do become permanent. And that's really, honestly, the question that we have to ask ourselves as a series. That is the ultimate decision that I think comes out of this whole trial, right? There'll be some other little nuances of, well, will, you know, 2311 and Bob Jenkins be rewarded some damages?

Will, you know, will this little lever get pulled? Will this little thing get changed? Will somebody lose a job? Will will this person get replaced? All those things may happen, could happen. But ultimately, I think what we are. are deciding is do the charters become franchises, do they become permanent, do the and then they'll be realized in new value at north of 150 million bucks?

That is probably what Michael and Curtis would love because they come from a model out of the NBA that is similar, right? And I think that ultimately that's what, and if that has that has, and if that has happens. Like, there is no going back. Like, it changes the sport forever. You'll basically have 36 franchises. However many cars will start a race. They'll be the franchises. They'll be owned and valued. And they will then sell and trade from one entity to another over the course of decades and centuries, however long this goes. And there'll be a gigantic, gigantic barrier of entry, right?

So, like, as we've known racing for 75 years, if you wanted to build a cup car and show up at a race and try to compete, you did. And, yeah, you're, you know, it's probably not going to go all that well. You're going to compete against the regular teams, and that's what it was. But you could. That'll be gone forever. I wonder if, on the flip side of that, though, it could lift Exfinity. It could lift trucks.

It could lift car store. You know, would it? Like, I'm just thinking about basketball. Like, I hear you. Like, man, the barrier of entry for 36 teams with all these people out here racing and all these tracks, you feel like that would go away. Like, what's the point? Why do you need all that just to have 36 drivers, Premier drivers? You know, why do you need all these short tracks, all these other series if the premier thing is 36 to get there?

Well, I feel like that if... I'm thinking about basketball and college basketball and then your ability to play in high school and so on and so forth. Like, you have to have those steps. I, listen, that is what's at stake. So does it improve the steps in our sport? It will. Could it? I don't know.

I feel like that I don't think that I don't really have a preference of which direction this goes. I just thought through. I agree. Because I think as it's going, it's not good for the teams. Yeah. Right? It's not. Yeah.

If the teams need more money. So I would support, you know, the teams getting more per season from NASCAR for their charters. I don't know if I fall one way or the other on permanent, but once they are permanent, they then become franchises. They're no longer charters. They go from franchises worth around $25 million to charters worth about $150 or more. And so overnight. And so I'm just saying, like, once you become, once they become a. a series that has 36 franchises,

they are now way over here on an island, even more than ever, unrelated to Xfinity, truck, and everything below it, ARCA, regional, local. It becomes this anomaly. Because your opportunity to get across that bridge, You know, that bridge.

Huge, yeah. You don't see a lot of basketball, football, franchises change hands. Right. But I'm just saying even as that's a competitor, you know, that bridge. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the bridge gets a little longer.

Well, that's what I was trying to say is like, in our sport, there's only 36 opportunities for a driver to make it. Yeah. On the basketball team, there's how many ever people, you know, times 20 franchises or whatever, right? So, yeah, it's a lot. That's why I was saying, does it make?

I just, the rest of the ladder stronger because people would stay in trucks longer, they would come through Exfinity or they would, you know, does it. I don't know. I don't know the answer. Well, you know, the, I just feel like that it's. I don't like the barrier entry to cup because I want to compete in Cuff. I know. Like I wish, I wish that NASCAR hadn't taken the hard stance against starting parks.

I know it wasn't, I know it wasn't fun for them to have guys come in, run a couple laps and walk out with a check. Yeah. But you would have eventually maybe had a team out of the Xfinity series, like ours. There's several others in the Xfinity series that would have actually showed up and tried to actually compete, right? Well, now it's really, it will turn it into a money game. Yep. I mean, who has, you know, 400 million to buy the New York Yankees? Yes.

You know, not very many people. Yeah. And so think about, think about what that world looks like. Yeah. Where you've got 36 charters, franchises, 36 franchises, permanent. you got a car that is hard to relate to. Like I look at the next gen car. Like I've stood beside race cars all my life.

And I can walk out in that garage and I can look in under those cars and I can identify most of the parts and pieces. And the cars that I race in the cars tour, all similar parts and pieces that I see in this 1979, 1980 Monte Carlo. sitting here or that 2025 Xfinity car, right?

It's very similar. And we then, with the next gen car, shifted into this whole another, you know, level of technology. And I look at that car and I go, damn, I don't,

I don't know, I know what I'm looking at, but I don't know what I'm looking at. And so, you know, every time they pull out, pull a part, pull a layer off of the next gen, I go,

is that. It's overdone, it's over-engineered. It's just a mess. And I don't, I don't know what the word I've been looking for this word. I would say, like, I don't really connect or I don't, I don't like,

I don't look at that car and go, damn, man, that's a badass. It's a hot rod, yeah. You know? And so think about a world where you're running cars that are not as easy to embrace, you know, if you're a car culture kind of person. It's tough to wrap up your arms around that car.

And, you know, you're, you're, you become a franchise where there's a, there's a, you know, it's pretty much a fixed model. And I just feel like that it separates itself. Yeah. From really what everybody else is doing in the world of stock car racing, right? and I don't know that that is a pathway toward, I don't know that that's a pathway toward like turning on and turning everybody on. I think.

Getting everybody excited. Getting everybody through the racetrack. Yeah. What keeps coming to my mind as you keep talking about it and giving these thoughts is that we ultimately just need to fix the business model. That's what they're asking for. Because if you make the teams healthy and you make them profitable and all of that, it is about the charters.

There's a whole other conversation. But ultimately, we're just talking about the business model. That's what they're talking about. Like, make it more, like it doesn't, it's helpful for the team to be worth, you know,

$100 million. Great. When I go to sale and I built something. But for the 20 years I'm going to operate it, what am I going to make? Think about SHR. They probably didn't really make that much money. once they sold their charters because they spent a lot of money and probably went years without

a lot of profit. So did they, you know, how much money in turn did they really make? Got out without too much damage. Right, right. Yeah, did they get out kind of level playing field? That's racing. And I think, right, another thing, I know, another thing, and I think that's what they're fighting for is let's make it look different. How can we make it look different? How can it be more profitable for the race teams? And also, our sport, because of these charters, and it, was before, we're in a period of change for team ownership and stuff too. You've got the legacy teams like Hendrick and, um, well, now Roush Kozlowski, you know, RFK and, and Pinsky and so on and and so forth. And then you've got, you know, the new teams like track house who, like 2311,

who are coming in doing it differently. Um, but these teams have all these legacy costs and all these things, you know, that, um, more employees, more this, more that because they're doing it a different way or they're manufacturing and they're doing all kinds of different things, you know. So we're really in a, like, so to that point, like, it's really hard to know what the financials of teams are because they're all doing it differently, you know? I mean, and so some teams say they're profitable that are some of the newer teams, you know, and then you've got legacy teams that probably aren't nearly as profitable, but because of all the legacy cost kind of things that are involved and stuff, you know, so yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, you'll have a company that's been in this,

You'll have a team that's been in a sport for decades that has acquired, you know, 500 employees. You bring in a car that doesn't need as many people to put it together. And you could probably trim down your workforce, but you refuse to, right? You know, you can't, you're not going to just. It's a hard decision. Yeah, it's a hard decision to cut 30 or 40% of your workforce. Yeah. So you try to make it work.

Yeah. The, yeah. I just was curious, like, why couldn't it be more of a, you know, free enterprise model? Yeah. Good point. Where, you know, the team's got to go out there to get the money, you know. And I know that that sounds, that's probably the owners don't love that idea. Well, they don't love that idea because marketing has changed so much. So, you know, it's so much...

Help me understand how that marketing plays a role. Well, social, digital marketing and content-based marketing is so much cheaper to do these days than the old buy your television commercials, get in the magazines and newspapers, go on, you know, all the different TV shows. But if you, if I could say, hey, man. But the cost of our racing has not had that same shift, right? So let's just, you know, I'm just going to use numbers. It was a million dollars to do all that and it's $100,000 to go. digital. Well, our costs need to change similarly because I can't get a million dollars

for my sponsor. They're like, I want to give you $100,000 because I can do this over there for $100,000 and get the same amount of people. So I'm not going to give you a million dollars, right? But I mean, if I can, if you can put, if NASCAR were to fill the purse. That's what I'm saying. They got to make the business model better. Right. Instead of saying, man, I'm just going to give you a $12 million check for being a charter guy. Right. You go out there and you run top 15.

I'm going to get you $15 million. Right. You're probably, you're going to get $15 million in purse. You're going to get your charter money that way. Why doesn't that, that seems to be how racing has worked for, you know. Yeah, it has. Yeah. I mean, and even a lot of, of agreements, we now put in more incentive, incentivizing,

whatever the right word is, from our sponsors to make the championship for, make a championship, win, or whatever, you know. Sometimes that's, you know, how we get to the dollar. So it is performance-based. You know, they want to see their car up front. It feels like that this isn't the only, NASCAR, you know, this happens in all the, this happens in other sports as well,

where you sort of, everybody sort of, you know, players, athletes, coaches, everybody's kind of getting their money up front. You know, I want to guarantee. Yeah. You know, and that's, that is, you know, that's kind of why, I like the Xfinity series or I like college football or I like I like I like where I know that they're working toward a performance reward right and they're striving to get to another level of competition and so I feel like that while I want the teams to get their money I do I would rather them get it through I would rather at least be under the guys that I'm seeing them get it. by racing, right? And doing things on the racetrack.

And that team's rewarded financially, and they're a financial success because they ran in the top five all year. I think they'd probably fine with that if the foundation was X, Y, Z so that you were somewhat profitable. The bottom line, you know, that you can make, I'm just, you know, using numbers, if it's a million dollars that I need to be somewhat profitable. cover my cost, but I have the opportunity to make $40 million if I win. Right. Right. They need that, you know, the floor, they need to cover. And then they can work from the floor up to make more money.

Yeah. Right. Right. And I think they're probably saying that the floor doesn't even cover what we're trying to do. I agree. So if NASCAR needs to, you know, they need to fix that. If NASCAR, if they're, let's say the teams are getting $400 million. Yeah.

And they want $600, right? why don't NASCAR just take you know if NASCAR is probably going to have to compromise in all of this at some point they're probably going to have to compromise in the end I would I would put my money on NASCAR having to raise the money they're giving the teams per year for charters I mean if they just took that big pile and put it in the purse and say you're going to get the money yeah you're just going to go race for it and the yeah the optics of that's even better yeah as a race fan like I'm trying to figure out how to get me back to the racetrack yeah right how to get me excited to be there how to get me excited to watch how to have a purpose of or a reason to pull for this this person that person because you know personality and and a cool much parity almost yeah a personality and a cool looking race car just isn't enough yeah you know I need to feel like there's like a grit to it you know and if everybody shows up and they're already know what they're getting yeah what are we what are we doing? Yeah.

We're just racing for pride. So, you know, that's kind of one of the things that I found interesting. And I was glad that landing. Well, I was glad he brought that up, you know, and he's got nothing to lose. No, and he's a good solid thinker. Yeah. He is. He's a good solid thinker.

I don't see that model ever coming into the sport, but I mean, it's basically how we did things forever, but there just wasn't, NASCAR just needs to put more money in the purse. had they done that instead of created the charter deal in 2016, we might not be here. Yeah. Or went out and did some of those crazy things that we were discussing, like, the Coliseum and not, right? But, you know, ultimately, I think you said it earlier,

we don't know all the ins and outs, right? So, I mean, some of the discussion of the lawsuits that how much of a big deal that the TV rights have playing and what they won't and, like, all the decisions. So, you know, there's two sides to every story, and this one lands somewhere in the, middle. I agree. I think it would be, you know, NASCAR's going to have a new playoff point system next year. They're, you know, probably going to make what would amount to a

significant shift. I feel like that I've been kind of, I doubt that we'll get 36 race full season deal. It's probably going to be a playoff of some sort. But, more than likely I'll be satisfied. As long as this is not one race. It won't be one race, I'm pretty sure. I don't actually know exactly what it's going to be, but I feel like I'm knowing what I was in all the meetings and all the conversation over the last year,

and I feel like we're going to land in a good spot. But, man, I'm sitting there watching this trial going on, and I'm like, you know, everybody's going to walk, everybody's going to walk out of this with some battle scars. more than likely, you know, NASCAR's going to have to give the teams a little bit more money. NASCAR is also taking a beating publicly in terms of perspective. Yes. And that's unfortunate.

Yeah. And so it would be a good opportunity for them to bring back the full season 36 race schedule as an olive ranch to the race fans that they pissed. off. I want to kind of summarize your point of view and mine, you know, and I'm happy to let you go first or I can go in terms of what you would like to see in the, and it doesn't have to be specifics, but how do you want this to kind of come about? I mean, ultimately, I'd just like to see compromise on both sides. I'd like to, you know, I think, you know, we didn't even talk about some of the text messages

and things like that and some of the things that. and some of the things that were said. I'd like to see some consequences for a lack of respect that people had. I think that's important. And I'd like to see, you know, I'd like to see compromise. I'd like to see an understanding from the teams of NASCAR and everyone else. Speedway Motorsports, SRX, Ray Everham, Dale Jr., Cars Tour. whoever it is, that we're all working for the same thing.

And that's just to keep the sport relevant, to keep it what we know it, to invest in it. That's what everybody's doing. And we all need a better understanding of that. And then a compromise for the teams that, like you said, you know, what are we racing for? And where's the floor to make it a good business model and the decisions that come out of that, you know? So, yeah, you know, what I don't want to see is, negativity for it to go rock bottom, for people to lose their sponsors, for people for fans and sponsors and the public as a whole to lose confidence in the sport and what we built and what we've all

known for all these years. You know, would just hurt my heart tremendously. So hopefully I wish they would have done this before the trial and come up with something that they could have come up with because I think we already see some damages and I hope they just don't get too much worse. Yeah, I can't disagree with any of that. I think that was well said. Yeah, I was very disappointed in some of the comments made about individuals in the sport,

particularly Richard Childress, a guy that's just done so much. I know there's a lot of different opinions about Richard out there in the fan base, but I know what this guy has sacrificed and how much he's invested himself and his life into the sport and to your point I would like to you know I would like to see some I would like to I would like to figure out whatever it is the repro you know whether it's you know repercussions or there's that that that just can't go unanswered touched yeah yeah like can't go unanswered just can't be swept under the rug for sure um the um you know I was I was I was interested to hear and to learn how Steve O'Donnell and some other people really on the in on the executive side

were actually going to bat for the teams yeah that was hope that was nice and and and good to see very encouraging encouraging for sure yeah to see them with some common sense and trying to make things just trying to find a middle ground which gives me hope that there is a way for us all to kind of come back together because really in the end we've got to go to Daytona yeah and Daytona's going to be here before you know it. I saw Gluck tweeted yesterday or the other day. It feels like Daytona's light years away. It will be here quickly.

Larry Mac knows how quick it is. It'll be here quick. And when it's here, it's like Christmas. You got all your damn shopping done? Are you ready? Because you better have your shit under the tree. So when Daytona shows up, we've got to be all back together. We all got to be back on the rope pulling this thing.

in the right direction. And, you know, that's the teams. That's 2311. That's NASCAR. That's everybody sort of, I don't know how we get there to that quickly. But we've got to go into Daytona all going, all right, man. You know, we all figured out how this is going to go. We've all gotten what we've gotten out of this trial.

We've all got to, you know, we're now back to working together to get down the road. You know, this will, the trial will be appealed more than likely. This will go on. This disagreement will continue. This isn't going to be over in February. But we do got to go race. We do got to go be successful. We do got to go compete and try to carry on, you know, the, you know, the series and the sport.

and to your you know I feel like that you know somehow some way it's got to work out somehow some way it's got to figure itself out and through everything that you just said it's got to be transparent and authentic to the fan because otherwise yeah you can't have no sales pitches you can't have no knowing that all of the things that have been discovered and text messages so forth I don't think we can go back I think we're transparent I think we're there yeah I think we're there keep it up. 68 days. Yeah.

68 days, Larry Max says. So the, I do, I don't believe, you know, I do want the teams to be profitable. I do want, I do feel like that, you know, I know that Penske and Hendrick and Gibbs do not want a cost cap. I don't know how you govern a cost cap, honestly. But I feel like that that might be something we should consider in the future. I know it's not the best. I know that Rick Hendrick would not like me to say that.

But I do feel like that a cost cap is something that's got to come in at some point. If you can do a cost cap and then you can raise what you're giving the charters per season. And if they need to be permanent, man, once we make the choice that they're permanent, they're permanent. That's it. That's it. That's right. And I hope that that's the right choice because if it's the wrong choice, you can't fix it. ourselves.

You can't fix it. Yeah. So, you know, I don't know where there. I think that honestly, I would have preferred, so I'll go with specifics.

Give the teams more money per year. Give them something that they're very happy about, not just a tick more, not just a bump. Give them something that they're really happy about. Set a set a spending cost limit. And then sign, do not make...

The charter's permanent. But sign a deal where it's long-term and it's a percentage, not a fixed number. It's a percentage of whatever the TV deal is. So like Michael Jordan and Denny both said, look, we'll do a percentage. And if it goes up, we all win. If it goes down, we all go down. Share. Yeah.

And I think, you know, I don't know why that didn't happen. I don't know why that wasn't something that didn't happen. I'm sure NASCAR had a purpose or reason, but I don't know what it might be, because if it goes down, we're all screwed anyways. So, you know, but I would have done that. I was just said, hey, let's just fix it at a percentage, and it is what it is, and you're going to get more every year. And I think that that would have gotten them down the road and out of a courthouse.

Yeah. So there it is. I'm hoping, you know, I think that, and the other thing I did want to say I just remembered is I don't, I do want to see the France family continue to run the sport. I think that the France family has earned what they got. They started this. You know, I've got the, I've got the notes from the original meeting

in Daytona in 1949 when they all got together. At the hotel? I've got the note, like I've got the word, every word that was said, every decision that was made, every comment from anybody, I've got the whole thing from the whole meeting.

And when you read this thing, I mean it is 75 years ago, but when you're reading it and you're kind of understanding how they form the sport and then you see Bill France Senior take take it from that moment forward and then Bill Jr.

And dad and Bill Jr. were very close. And I got to know Bill Jr. really well. You know, then we had the Brian France phase, as tough as that was. But they, you know, the France family, they built, they build NASCAR. You know, and as, and I just don't believe that. You know, if you build a, build a company or you build something that it should be taken away from you or somebody should come in and tell you, you know, what to do. And so, you know, what I would want, you know, Jim to do is to be able to compromise and be able to get to a good middle ground with the teams. Maybe, you know, he's from what I've read in these, you know, court records and so forth, he's been pretty stubborn.

But, you know, I like Jim. I think he's a great man. I like the France family. They've been great to me. I think they've done an amazing job putting us in a hell of a position as a sport. And I would trust them 100% moving forward beyond this trial. And so how can you have that? And then all of the compromise where the teams are happy, I don't know.

But I honestly feel like, and this ain't no bull, I'm not being a smart ass. I honestly feel like I've seen this, you know, I've seen this for, you know, on my timeline. Anytime there's kind of a big old disagreement or uproar, there's fans on social media that'll be like, they ought to get Mark Martin to run the sport.

They ought to get Dale Jr. to run the sport. I'm telling you, if me and Kelly were in those meetings, I feel like that we could have made a difference because reading all of this that went on over the last couple of years, I mean, it's just a level-headed common sense. It isn't that fucking hard. It isn't.

It isn't. And so I just, just feel like, golly, man, it would have been, it just seems like this was completely avoidable. And again, going back to our regional comment when we first sit down, it's disappointing. But I think there's a way out. Let's hope. I think if both sides don't come out with lessons learned, then shame on them, right? Because there should be some lessons that are learned in this whole thing.

or it was, yeah, it was mute calls to go this far. Well, we'll see. Yeah, we will see. We'll see. Before we get to the White Flag, thank you, Registics for being the sponsor of this episode of the Dale Jr. Download. We're so thankful for their support of Dirty Mo Media and Junior Motorsports.

Remember, if you sell discount, appliances, or merchandise, you need to get in touch with them. They'll be happy to help. For reliable inventory and fair and consistent pricing, visit Registics.com. That's R-E-G-I-S-T-I-X.com. White flag. All right, it's time for the white flag.

Be sure to check out the tear down every night after the trial. Jeff Gluck and Jormionke, they have been giving us a recap of every day in court. It's been amazing. Be sure to turn on your notifications so you don't miss what those guys have going on. Door bumper clears Christmas special will drop tomorrow. They will have a best of reaction. theater that drops Friday as well. Next week, we'll be having

a Best of Shows from DBC, Actions Determinal, Bless Your Heart, and the Dale Jr. Download. We'll also have a new Bless Your Heart on December 17th. Be on the lookout for more DJD classics. Hank Parker Sr. is coming out on December the 11th, and then Rick Hendrick

will be later this month. So don't forget to head over to the merch store, merch store, merch store, shop.dirtymodemedia.com. Shop. dot dirtymomedia.com. That's a lot. Hey, I was glad to get back

on the studio. Thanks for everybody showing up today and doing this. I've missed doing the show. I hope everybody's having a good holiday season and getting ready for Christmas.

And, yeah, I'll miss y'all until we're back.