The Dale Jr. Download - Mike Davis Explains What Staying Authentic Has Cost Dirty Mo

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Dirty Mo Media may have started with a Dale Earnhardt Jr. podcast, but DMM President Mike Davis never believed it would stop with one driver, one podcast, or even one sport. Today, he is leading DMM through its next phase of growth while trying to protect the honesty and audience trust that helped build the company in the first place. In Part 2 of Business of Motorsports, Kelley Earnhardt Miller sits down with DMM President Mike Davis to talk about what the company has actually become: a motorsports media network telling stories from every corner of the sport, and now pushing into new ones too. Mike gets into how DMM decides which shows are worth betting on, why some ideas need years to find their audience, and why he's comfortable having a few misses to find the next big hit. He also tells the story of how a trip into the rodeo world turned into a friendship with Jerome and Tiffany Davis, the launch of Dirty Mo Rodeo, and a bigger vision for where DMM can go outside of racing. Growth hasn't come without tension. Mike talks candidly about navigating DMM's relationship with NASCAR, the balancing act of staying independent while still being part of the sport, and why DMM has walked away from business rather than tell its hosts what they can and can't say. This is the story of how Dirty Mo Media keeps growing without losing the authenticity that made it work in the first place, and where Mike believes DMM can go next. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Welcome to the business of motorsports. It is yours truly, Kelly Earnhardt Miller. You know, one thing that I really hope that this series does is open up people's horizons. I got in a lot of trouble, and I got challenged. I don't know why you're coming here. You don't trust us. I said, no, it's not I don't trust you.

I'm running a business. A lot of people kind of feel like, well, we're. We're never getting back to where we were. Why did we ever get to where we were? There's so much more involved in decision. I mean, I want to rip somebody's head off every day. I'd say yes to him. Oh, you say yes on the phone.

Well, he made me say. Welcome back to Business and Motorsports. We had so much to talk about with Mike Davis, so there was no way we could fit that all into one episode. So here's part two of that conversation. In part one, we talked about how Mike. Mike got started in the sport of NASCAR, how the Dell Jr. Download and Dirty Mo Media came to be, and why he eventually decided to step aside from the Dell Jr. download and focus on building the

company. Now we're getting into where Dirty Mo goes from there. We'll talk about how Mike decides show fits, the risks that come with growing beyond NASCAR, the bets that the company is making, and what he wants Dirty Mo Media to be in the years to come. This episode of Business and Motorsports is presented by Arby's. Don't forget about Arby's new meat in three box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meets. Moving into kind of the shows and

you know, your lane has been building shows within our NASCAR industry and landscape. You know, a lot of those shows. And I don't know if there's any shows you want to talk about in particular because we only talked about business of motorsports, but

you you know, how, what kind of risk were there? How did you think about that process when you're introducing new shows as it relates to your relationship with NASCAR. Obviously, they have podcasts that they do. And we also, Dirty MoMode Media relies on NASCAR in a lot of ways for content that you produce or if you're working on originally television programming, different things like that. You know, you've got to work alongside the sanction body for some of those things. So talk about, you know,

making those decisions, your shows, that background and that relationship with NASCAR and where your head is in kind of that space. Well, let's move the relationship with NASCAR off for a second. That's its own whole conversation. And I'm happy to talk about it. But in terms of shows, every show, as I said, has a purpose. Let's just start from the top. Dale Jr. download.

What is the purpose? It is back to my old philosophy of access to the Dale Jr. world. What's going on in his mind? What did he think about the race? What did he? And by the way, when he has conversations, I think there's a real, real, uh, truth going on that Dale Jr. still, um, learning about his dad and your dad, right? I think that there's been, not every guest, but there's certainly guests throughout the year that he's still, like, feeding into those stories and hearing and listening to that. Um, the download was that. It's just the Dale world. And by the way, It's still our number one show.

Yeah. Of course it is. Action is detrimental. I needed advantage point from a driver. Dale Jr. when he was no longer a driver, we lose that vantage point. Denny Hamlin, one of the old, one of the last, if not the last of the, I'm going to just say things, what's on my mind. That may not be true anymore after watching Zane Smith and Carson Hosevar have their back and forth this past weekend in Atlanta. People are coming out.

I think people are finding comfort. in their opinions again. But like Denny, you know, how, I'm real proud of what actions detrimental has become because, again, we get access into a A-list driver that you just wouldn't have. And that was an ambitious jump for Dirty Mo Media because we really didn't know what it was like to work outside of the Dale Jr. Orbit, right? You know, Denny's got his own sponsors, his own interest, his own stuff. And yet we were able to start actions detrimental. Door bumper clear. vantage point from a different group, from the team side, from spotters, from team managers. And that's not always the same as the driver.

And it's certainly not always the same as Dell. So now we've got this whole thing covered. Okay. Well, then how can we expand it further? Well, what about Dale Jr's life beyond the race? Well, bless your heart. Here it is. And that's funny because we had been talking with Amy for years about doing a show.

And it just we couldn't ever find the right thing. So it was clear to us looking at the data and everything that there was a better way to use Amy and bless your heart emerged. Tear down. Vantage Point from the media, the people covering it. Also, debate. Also, George, Bianchi and Jeff Gluck do an amazing job with that. We've even done a spin-off with Gluckcast.

It's awesome. Speed Street. Connor Daly. Same vantage point, IndyCar. You know? And by the way, Conor Daly's a grinder, man. I mean, like nobody pours more into the creation of their podcast than Conor daily.

It's, he's an amazing guy. Herman Schrader, vantage point from the old guard, right? And, and by the way, I just wanted to always work with Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader,

right? Now, just a note on that show, like that one, when we talk about running its course, that one is going to sunset at the end of this year. Kenny Wallace has taken a step back. Ken Schrader's taking a step back.

We always knew that, like, hey, look, let's just work together. Let's do two years. See if that feels, right. This will be their second year. And then after this year, they're going to hang up Herman Schrader. And by the way, we're all good with that. Kenny says he's right sizing his life. He's right sizing it. And I think that that... And you know what? At where he's at in his life, he deserves it so much. Because I want people to be able to do that in their life, right? Have that type of control.

When you're ready to step away, you don't need to be tied to things. And I think the world to him, and it's been awesome. So Herman Schrader will go away after 2026. And he's, and we'll find something else to do. And I'm like, you know, do I do a Jimmy Spencer show? Do I do it, you know, whatever it is. And right? Something to make them talk. But so like all these different shows serve different purposes.

We're now getting into some lifestyle shows and getting a little bit outside the racing part where rare breeds. Rare breeds was a big ambitious step for us. I would still say that a lot of these ideas are in the experiment phase because I'm not, I'm no fortune Taylor here. I don't know what audiences will respond to, especially our audience when we get outside. But I think our goal is to find new audience, not just ask Dale Jr. fans to care about what Carson does when she's on a date or when she's, right.

Like, I think that's just a different audience, right? And so rare breeds we've had, you know, we, I don't know how many episodes we've done 20 or 30 of those. sons and daughters is a new show. I love sons and daughters. This is a new show. We're experimenting on this, but I had this premise several years ago of just a show about origin stories and about how normal, ordinary people become extraordinary and what those transitional points of life are. I can point back to some significant things in my life that got me to where I am today. You can look at back at things that happen.

Not all of them are good. Some of them are bad. Or maybe it's relationships that happened along the way. And I always had this idea of telling or having conversations with people in a very vulnerable state where they can talk about their, you know, what decisions they make good and bad. Shannon Spake's doing that right now with sons and daughters. I love the show.

I hope people find it. Yeah, I think it's great. And I think, you know, to that point, too, you have to have the right person. to be able to go there and get there. You know, I think that's one of the things that when we're talking about business and motorsports, it was just that honesty piece of it,

of, you know, where you can tell the good and the bad. And I'm thinking of it as you talk about these shows, you know, and, you know, that's what I love about Denny is that he just tells it like it is, you know, and he's got the owner hat, he's got his driver hat, he's got so many different hats that he can throw in, but he's not scared to challenge all sorts.

sides, you know, and where he sits in for that. Because I think that's, that's a lot of the things when you are having these conversations is you have to be able to talk about the risk. You have to be able to talk about the not so good that got you there and all of those different kind of things on a podcast. Because I think that's what's, that's part of the journey and what you're learning, you know, and why you're listening and what's compelling and all those things. You talked about, um, uh, new shows. And so, just a great time for us to talk about the rodeo world and this cowboy life and dirty me rodeo which we which you now have and and walking into that space so you've got a new podcast with Jerome and Tiffany Davis Jerome is a very well known very well well known North Carolinian in the rodeo world and has persevered through an injury very early on in his career where he was, you know, just the top of his game and really going to, if you recall in the rodeo world, the days of Ty Murray and Tough Heedman and those names, that was where Jerome Davis was headed.

And so you started this podcast. Let's dive in to kind of where that came from and how that idea came forward. Because rodeo. It's a lot of similarities to racing, though, actually, when we think about it. When you get down and start unpacking values, Yeah. You have to go like, because on a surface level, you're like, I don't see the similarities. You know, you're riding bulls and driving race cars.

What's the similar? No, but if you start unpacking and getting down into the values, you see a lot of patriotism. You see a lot of faith. You know, racing and rodeo are still, I think, the only sporting events where they start off with prayer and they lean into it and family. The connectivity between all of the people that are involved in that world. Exactly. You see a lot of legacy.

you see a lot of it. I mean, and so, and there's something really pure about it that I honestly myself didn't even realize until I actually started, you know, paying attention. And there's a purity about it. There's a, you know, like the love of the land and the love of the automobiles seemed to kind of come from the same place. It's like kind of part of that American soul. And when we started really kind of exposing ourselves to that world, it felt there was a natural, there's something natural about it. Now, one of the natural things about it was that I'm talking to Austin Dillon last year and, you know, the Childress team and Richard Childers himself, they own a PBR team. And so they were really just educating me. And it's like, wait, so you're telling me this is how that's done and wow, all this stuff. And they're like, you need to come to an event. So we go to event. Colby Bass and myself go to an event. And at the time we were going to look at actual bull riders to be the pot. And and we even had some picked out. It occurred to me that bull riders, again, another similarity is between bull riders and

race car drivers, especially 19 and 20-year-olds, is their priorities aren't exactly in podcasting. Communications skills. Communications. Oh, you know, our friend Andrew Gengola used to be, he used to be in NASCAR PR, but now he runs PBR Communications, Pro Bull Riders Association Communications. And he said, I asked him in New York. said, what is it like to try to go, you know, get media interest and pitch stories? And he's like,

you know, usually the biggest challenge is I'm trying, I got a good story. I got a cover of the New York Times or whatever, but I'm competing with a fence post because there's a fence post. And we're in Texas or Oklahoma that needs to be replaced. And so that's what's keeping me from having this big and I laughed and I'm like, that's so true because, you know, priorities are this. These bull riders are chasing buckles, probably some girls that, you know, you know, here and there. But like, Like, that's what they're after. I did not think we'd get much off the ground if we were relying on the bull riders themselves to be our first podcast for Dirtymo Rodeo. But in the corner of my eye, I see this guy and his wife.

And that's Jerome and Tiffany Davis. And I didn't know them. And they seem to have an influence and an aura about them in this space that I'm like, they matter. So you're just getting this from. They matter. Just watching. You're just watching. Just observing. This comes out. I knew of them because of Austin. Yeah. But I just, you know, Jerome is the coach of the Carolina Cowboys, which Childress owns and Austin's the general manager.

But I needed to see them in my, because again, they weren't on my radar in terms of doing a podcast. But I'm like, I remember being in a coffee shop the next morning with Colby. And I said, you know, I feel like those are, that's who we need to be looking at. They're adults. They're grown people. with grown priorities. And we need to learn. We need to meet them. I did not know that they lived an hour from where we sit right now.

I did not know that. Sure, they're with the Carolina Cowboys, but most of the Bull Riders for the Carolina Cowboys do not live in Carolina. So I did not know this. Within a week, we are sitting at Jerome and Tiffany's table in Archdale, North Carolina, at the Davis Rodeo Ranch, and we're introducing ourselves, myself, Colby, and Tiff Powers. And we just, their world was just like, we just like, I love this, right? We were still not thinking about them as podcasters, but we were just learning about it.

And I just was enamored by the whole thing. It didn't take long for us to go, they're the show. I'm telling you, they're stock contractors. They raise bucking bulls. They're also the coach, obviously, of the Carolina Cowboys and, and, and, you know, And Tiffany has every title. And he also happens to be a Hall of Famer. He also was like the top of his game when he got injured.

And by the way, the story, the Jerome Davis story, it became clear to us immediately. It's like, wait a second, before we start doing a podcast with them, we need to introduce our audience to who they are because that story, I was captivated by it. the man was at the top of his game and they were just they were engaged and he suffers his injury from that wreck and then suing months tested everyone's resolve including their own Tiffany had every chance to walk they didn't have to get married Jerome even tried to run her off because this is not a road you want to go down and she stuck and now you go you wonder like Tiffany does it. She's like, why would God do this? Well, to me, it's clear. You didn't know it at the time, but you think about their story, their testimony. It's still being played out right now.

I love their story. I said to them, I said, hey, I'm going to, I would like to do a podcast with you guys. I think you're the show. Being who they are, they're like, we're going to have to pray about this. And they did. And it turns out we were able to make it happen. And you know this, because we had several variations of this bull riding show before we actually landed on this cowboy life and with Jerome and Tiffany. So we just started this show. And I love it. We've had such a good response from the rodeo community. One of my biggest concerns was, do we have the credibility? Well, that's Jerome brings the credibility. Tiffany brings the credibility. But it's like, you know, how will that community respond to it? Turns out they've responded big time,

big time. And I think that there's real opportunity for us to add on shows into the Dirty Moe Rodeo vertical. And we'll see. Is it in his experiment? Yeah, still. Because again, what does Adele Junior Media Company look like in rodeo? None of us know, but I like a lot of the similar values. And at the end of the day, we just go chase real authentic people. That's what, for dirty moe media, you got to be true to yourself. That's kind of what we pride ourselves on. I don't think you can find more authentic people than them. And I hope our audience, I hope the audience finds that show to be as gratifying and as informational and all that as I think it is. It's just getting off the ground. Your first episode was last week? We started off with a three-part

documentary and that came out a few weeks ago. It's on YouTube. But the first podcast. But yeah, the first podcast, which is available everywhere, it just started last week. Yeah. In fact, what is today? Today's Monday. Yeah, Wednesday we'll go back out to the ranch and take the second episode. So you're doing it at their place. Doing it at their place. Built to set right. there and they're downstairs. What are you learning about buck and bulls? I want one. I knew you did.

I won't own one. That's what I learned about it. You know, I got a funny story. Is there as much money in bucking bulls as there are in race horses? Probably not. No, no, but that makes it more my speed, right? Yeah. But race horses are another level. Out of your league.

But, you know, I don't know. We've been taken aback by, I don't profess to be any type of expert in that rodeo space or whatever, but we have a good time. You know what else, and I want to, you should really think about this. Jerome was an founding investor of the PBR. When they sold, Jerome made some money. Well, what does a, what does a cowboy do with money he just happened upon? He builds himself a huge arena right in his front yard. So they basically, they have a full-on grandstands press box, this whole thing right there in their front yard.

And they hold rodeo events every other Wednesday. they call it Wild West Wednesday. And so in the summer, Wild West Wednesday happens. It's happening again this coming Wednesday. And people can show up and watch a legit rodeo. And Jerome's up there on the microphone and Tiffany's down there on the microphone. And our families have just loved going to them. Tiff Powers' kid, he was doing a button-busting thing just a few weeks ago.

And so it's just fun. It's family fun. Yeah. And they're just awesome people. Yeah, I know a little bit about the radio world when I was younger. And then, of course, Taylor's participated, Kayla Earnhardt, Carrie's daughter, you know, and all. So it is, it's a, it's a great world. I mean, there are a lot of similarities, like you said, after you unpack kind of the foundation of, you know, what they, who the people are and what their values are and all of those things.

Hey, this is Dale and Hart Jr. And for all the latest Dale Jr. download gear, including the I'm old drink some beer, T-Shift, we've been talking about here around the office, head over to shop.dardimomedia.com for all the latest merch. Why rodeo? Why go outside of motorsports? What's in it for dirty mo media? Well, look, I mean, the space is crowded.

We can acknowledge that. You mentioned NASCAR and we can talk about NASCAR. But like, yeah, you know, look, there's new podcast starting every day. I think that for us to be able to see out the vision for DirtyMoh Media, we were never going to just be racing, in my opinion. We never were. Dale, I'm not asking Dale to put on chaps and boots, but others can. And I'm not, you know, we're also going to get into football.

We're talking right now and finalizing a deal with the new football podcast. And so getting into dirty-mo football and dirty, you know, dirty-mo lifestyle stuff, these are all new verticals that I think that we can, we can play in. Dale Jr. transcends NASCAR always has. I think that if we do it smartly and look at, and stay true to who we, are what our core values are, which is passion, authenticity, agendaless. We're not going to get into politics. I can say right now with 100% certainty, we're never going to start politics shows. That's not who we are. But there are things that we are getting into that do make sense

for us. By the way, I say, when I say get into them, I'm not asking our race fans or our Dale Jr. Download fans to all of a sudden be hit with a bunch of rodeo stuff or football stuff. we start new verticals, new social channels that if that's into your thing, if that's you, you'll find it. If not, you're not going to be hit upside the head with it. And that's kind of like, so nothing really changes in terms of our long-term fans. We're trying to just go look and find new audiences. Yeah.

You've mentioned this already, I think, but maybe you can expand just a tick. But because I know these things have been on your strategy list, you know, different verticals, different sports, different areas. areas. You explain this from the rodeo perspective, but like what makes it right? You know, when do you know, what do you know, what makes it right? Well, this is a business podcast. Yes, that's what I say.

What's all the things? Let's start with that one. Well, you've talked about authenticity, which is important. But yeah, talk about, you know, how you know a situation is the right situation as it comes together or the right experiment because like you said, you don't always know how they're going to pan out. Listen, I don't mind. I'm humble enough to know when I'm humble enough to know when I.

I've missed on stuff. I've missed on some. I've started shows that did that tell us about a miss. Well, I mean. And why it missed. What do you think? Well, timing sometimes matters. Commitment is a big one. Sometimes we just, you know, we, you know, people are in different seasons of life that you thought you were, you're better aligned on those things. That can be one. Sometimes, again, I like I use it the, I mentioned that we're still not sure if rare breeds and sons and daughters are going to be successful. I don't know until I've tried. I don't mind swing in a missing. I just, I'm going to swing at it. Ultimately, if it's successful, audience finds it and they react to it and they respond to it and they come back and it takes time. That's what's how long does it take? For me, I need two years.

I need two years because again, like, I can't just start something and expect all of a sudden people to drop. I think that the statistics show that a person will have about three to five. five podcasts. The podcast listeners, they'll have three to five that they, that they will find, find, you know, during their week. Doesn't mean they're hitting them all the time. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But they look, you know, if you were just poll people and say, if you're a podcast or a week, yeah, there's usually three to five. Well, when I start a new one, I'm asking someone to drop one and go back in. And it's so funny. Like, I don't, I don't listen to a lot of what social media has to tell me as much as I used to. But like when I did, I'll see people like,

you know, you'll start something like, I ain't listening to that. I'm not listening to that. Well, I'm not trying to ask you to listen to it. I'm trying to go create something that somebody will be important. It'll be important enough to them. And they can decide if that's one of their three to five. And if it's not great. Again, yeah, people are like, yeah, you've started so many shows. I don't have time to listen to them all. That's okay. I'm not asking you to listen to them all. I'm asking you to find something.

If my job is to find one thing that you will be served, that you will find to be a value of your time to give that hour or hour and a half, whatever it is, that you'll find value in it, whether it be entertainment, information, whatever it is you're seeking. So I don't need to hear. I don't like Denny Hamlin, so I ain't listening to actions detrimental. Somebody does. and we got the numbers to back it up. If we don't have the numbers to back it up, I promise you, I won't keep doing it. That means that it didn't work.

And we've had shows that we tried and they didn't work. And we have also started shows that they always had an end date. Like, you know, one of my favorite shows that we did was the Burton Continuum. That was an editorial show. It wasn't a talk show.

It had a very clear beginning and a clear end. It was like eight episodes. there was never intention to go to nine, right? And there's going to be shows like that. So we, listen, I got a team that thinks ambitiously. We take swings. We have a vision. I'm very strategic.

I operate off a strategy. And I believe in the strategy. And in that strategy, I have room for misses. And I think you have to, right? Yeah. And then if you are okay with the misses, the ones that hit, feel that much better. Yeah.

And should make up for the ones that miss. Yeah. I can tell you this. Before we even got to the first episode of this cowboy life with Jerome and Tiffany, our YouTube channel on Dirty Mo Rodeo had already had a pretty good following more than we'd ever had at any other shows launch. So, like, there's signs that say, yeah, this is going to work, right? And by the way, I've already had advertiser interest. a show that just started. That never happens. Usually I have to have, you know, good 10, 20 episodes in so

people know what they're listening to. But, you know, there's a lot of interest in this cowboy life already because you're hitting a different audience. And that's what I think we're able to do. Let's talk briefly about NASCAR because we, I teed this up earlier and we got into a different conversation. But, you know, your relationship with NASCAR, are you competing against NASCAR? What does your world look like? This is different than theirs. And so. and so forth. I know you've had an opportunity to work with NASCAR in a lot of different areas and things like that. So. Yeah, listen, the relationship with NASCAR, if it was a Facebook profile, I would say it's complicated.

And I think I say that. Do not worry with what you can't control. That's on my Facebook. And that seems to apply to. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. So listen, you said it. We compete. But at the same time, when your competition, you need them to succeed for your own success, well, then that's where the complicated part comes in. I need NASCAR to be as healthy and as prosperous as they can possibly be. And I also think that they need the same thing from us because, you know what, we have an audience. And we have Dale Jr.

Go back to the Dale Jr. Download. I mean, like, Dale Jr. every single week is going to say his opinion. And he ain't taking cues from anybody but himself. Right? We don't even know what he's going to say about a particular thing. And that always doesn't align with what NASCAR wishes he would say. But listen, Dale Jr. is an integral part of the NASCAR community. I think he's the most valuable commodity, even to this day. He's a Hall of Famer. He's a broadcaster. He has a ton of influence, even to this day. His relevancy still is very high. I think the Dale Jr. download keeps that WIC lit, right? in terms of the relevancy and the brand. But so we need each other to be successful, but I think our, well, our goals are different, right? I'm radically honest.

I like my philosophy to content is come as you are, we own our flaws. And also, I am very, I not only am not afraid of different opinions or diverse. of thought, I embrace it. That's pretty intimidating and scary for a lot of other companies. I won't even just put that on NASCAR. Like, you know, anybody, probably even junior motorsports to a degree. Well, that's what I was going to say. How do you, how, I mean, how, how do you support that if it affects your own company negatively? Own company being junior motorsports? Or dirty moe. I don't handle it quite well, to be honest with you. And I know that to be the case. Listen, I think a lot of people struggle with that.

That's a fair thing. I think that's a fair thing from a business perspective to understand when you can lay it out all on the table. It's hard these days. It used to be a lot easier to talk about your strengths and weaknesses. It's hard these days because of, I feel, because of social, because of everybody else's rhetoric. That's what rhetoric, whatever the right word is. And I hate that. Yeah.

So, listen. I've been trying for 10 years. to figure out a way to work with NASCAR in a very productive, you know, collaborative way. We almost got there this year. We almost got there. I really thought this was it. I thought this was it. I'm like, we're about to make history.

We're about to work with NASCAR on something. And it's going to be a way that benefits us both, which again, we spent a lot of time working on that. And yet right at the last minute, gone. And it's hard not to take that personal, and it's hard to sit there and go, okay, well, maybe this just is a further indication that we're just not aligned in what our end goals are. Dirty Mo is going to stay open for business. If there's new ideas that we can pursue and NASCAR, we'll try. But at the end of the day, we've not been very successful in figuring out ways. And I don't, listen, I think we're good partners.

And I have receipts. We work with IndyCar. We work with a bunch of other entities. PBR and the PRCA have been awesome to work with. And so I think that we all, it just goes down to the fact that I'm never going to tell my host what to say or what their opinion's got to be. I want their authentic opinion. I don't want to tell Denny Hamlin what he's got to say. I don't want to tell DoorBumper Clear.

I'm not going to tell them what they're going to say about a race just because it's good for business. And we have lost business. It wasn't just this year. We've lost business to stand on that principle, but it's one that I can sleep at night. I'm not going to sacrifice our authenticity and our opinion. A lot of people go, well, you're just trying to be clickbait on door bumper clear. I promise you, if I were being clickbait, then I would be telling them what to say to be better at getting clicks. I've never once done that.

And I never will do that. Freddie, Tommy, Carson, they'll say what they want to say. And if there's things that are problematic, then we'll have conversations about that. But at the end of the day, we are free thinkers and we have diversity of thought. And sometimes that doesn't align with other people. Yeah, going back to thinking about the things you've said, it's timing, it's commitment, it's alignment, it's authenticity and all those things. And if they're not working, it's not working.

So there's definitely things on the NASCAR side that you just haven't clicked, you know, in terms of working together. I won't stop trying. I won't stop trying. We're always open for business. We're always coming up with ideas. I'll give you one. I think Dirty Mo would do a good job being at track doing live shows. We've done live shows at tracks. We do them in Daytona every year. We do it to our partner series XM. We do other things. We've done them. I think we do them well. I've tried to talk about that with not just NASCAR, but SMI. And we're still working on that. But I do think that Dirty Moe's presence at there. We did a really successful ultimate experience program with the suites. That was that was something else I'm real proud of. The race fans love that. I think that our rapport with the audience and the fans means that we should always continue track because I do think that there's something that NASCAR could gain, hopefully, by working with us. I also know that NASCAR needs to also go find new audiences and new people as well, just to say why I'm doing that with rodeo. That's still can exist. But I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm not

as easy to work with as I think I am. I want to ask you, and you'll be honest with me, is Dirty Mo, you also have to have a relationship with NASCAR? You guys operate. You're the most successful team in the O'Reilly series. Does Dirty Moe's existence ever complicate that? I have not had a situation where it has complicated anything with Junior Sports. To my knowledge, and I say to my knowledge, because, you know, I don't know if, I don't

think they would say, oh, we're looking at your race organization in a certain way from a tech capability or anything like that that would suggest anything. But no, I've never had an issue. You know, I think on the side of Dale, you know, obviously I think there's been conversation sometimes about the way Dale may talk about certain things on the download and what that looks like. And look, you know, I do have a saying of, you know, let's don't pee in our own pool, right? Like, that's just kind of something that comes to mind whenever I'm thinking about how we all make something better. And the Cars Tour has kind of taught me this, you know, in thinking of running the sanction and you're dealing with the tracks and you're dealing with the drivers and

you're dealing with the teams and you're dealing with all the different individuals that make up what you're trying to make great. And, you know, there's opinions that are said here or there. Somebody doesn't like something and all that. And I'm like, I just go back to thinking about how can we make this great together, you know? But that's your, that's your point with NASCAR. There, there should be opportunities to work together to elevate the whole ecosystem, not just dirty mode, not just NASCAR. And so, yeah, I, you know, I don't, I don't know of any particular, particular instance.

And, you know, I think they've been, I know, we want to have, you know, some guests. We've had some guests. We want to have some more guests, like on the business and motorsports part. But that's kind of where I go to also on back to talking about business and motorsports is like, who can talk honestly? Who's going to talk honestly? Honestly is the good and the bad. I just don't want to sit here and talk to people for a nice commercial. Right.

Right. Right. I want to dig into. That's what business and motorsports is. Business and motorsports is digging into what doesn't work. What risks are there? Talking about your failure. talking about, you know, the good things, you know, talking about wins and how you got through all of that.

That's what our audience appreciates. I agree. And so when I think about guests that cannot deliver that. Now, I don't want the whole show to be negative, you know, but, you know, our sport, it's hard to talk about our sport at times because there is issues with, the business model and the plan and how we take it to the racetrack and how we do all of that. And so, you know, sometimes I get lost to my own thoughts about, you know, those challenges and how they're perceived by our fans and people who listen to me and Heather, we're sitting there talking about our challenges when it comes to our margins and things like that.

And, you know, we're thinking of it from a real conversation. I know that anybody gets in business to sell widgets. They want to make money selling widgets. Who doesn't want to make money selling widgets? I want to make money running a race team. I want to make money doing whatever. You want to make money having a podcast. And so if you're only making 2% on this widget, you know, what can you be doing different?

What's wrong with the business model? What's wrong with the plan? So, you know, just going back to kind of that honesty. But no, I've not had anything direct. My last run-in with NASCAR was like 2007 over Adidas, and I'll never forget that run-in. Oh, that's right. We left that out of our 2007. I think you were in that conversation.

We left that out. Oh, gosh, yeah, which I didn't know I was causing a problem until later. But, yeah, when, yeah, so just for the audience, we were working on a deal with Adidas and a lot of audits, and a lot of people will remember that for Dell Jr. and our company, not knowing that the sport was working on something with a competitor that would encompass all of the drivers and whatnot. And we were kind of going on our own to do something. And I didn't read between the facial expressions or something from a meeting and got called out about it later. But again, that's just, you know, it's about if you're clear on what you're doing,

how you're going to involve your constituents in what you're doing. I think that's super important, that communication. Where do we all fit into the picture? Then something like that doesn't happen. But yeah, that was my last, my last hand slap. Didn't it kill that deal too? It killed their deal. It killed their deal.

Yes, it killed their deal. I don't know what was in it for us. I really don't, but it killed their deal. Yeah. Well, listen, you know, when you talk about the business of motorsports, you mentioned the business model. I can promise you, I have never envied you or anybody. that has to operate on the racing business model.

It is so hard. Yeah. It is so hard. And Junior Motorsports does an amazing job, given how difficult this business model is. And by the way, I probably don't even know a, I probably don't know a tenth of how difficult that actually is. You're probably thinking in your head, oh, yeah, like you actually know anything about this. I know that the business.

You've been in enough meetings and conversations to know it's difficult. I also know that running a media company is hard. There's a graveyard full of race teams. and media companies around us all over the place, and there's new ones all the time. So we didn't pick, maybe that says more about us. We didn't pick the easiest thing, but at the end of that, you follow your passions. The thing I always love about your conversations on business of motorsports is that given how difficult the business is, the business model is, when you get with other racing executives,

almost just kind of comparing battle wounds. You know what I'm saying? I mean, the Heather Gibbs was such an amazing conversation, but you've had a lot of amazing conversations and it's like I know that they can start to feel repetitive or you might be asking a lot of the same questions but at the end of the day I do think that everyone has a little bit of a different story the challenge is will they actually come out with it yeah tell their short and most of them to be honest and this is probably I shouldn't say this to you most of them probably don't right that just it goes back to that vulnerability that you talked about people don't want to you know it is

easier to in this atmosphere to get people to talk about things that maybe they wouldn't. I mean, Dale Jr. does a great job of it on the download. I can remember that from Fast Lane family, and I'm pointing over there to where I used to sit on the couch and do that. You know, you get comfortable and you get comfortable with people that you know and know of and so on and so forth. And you're talking about intimate things, you know, especially when you think about Dale and talking and learning about my dad and our dad and all those things that he really enjoys. You know, you can lose sight of fact that thousands of people are going to listen to this, you know. But that's good. That's good stuff. That's when the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it ends up being

great, you know, am I doing a good job of encouraging you to keep going on? You're, you're doing a good job. Let's talk about dirty moe media and its future. Five years from now. What's the, what's the, what's the, what's the percentage of, of, of racing or other? And what does dirty mo look like, do you think? Yeah. what's your strategy says it's going to look like. Well, listen. A lot of people ask me about, you know, what are you trying to be? Are you trying to be, are you a racing platform? Or are you trying now you're getting into Dirty Mo Rodeo and football, F1, those different things. Listen, I want Dirty Mo Media to be a diversified sports media platform that happens to do racing better than everybody else.

I kind of already think we do, to be honest with you, because we got Dale Jr. And we got Denny and we got these people. And I just don't think, I don't see anybody else replicating that. the creed, the street cred that we bring. So I like the way we cover the sport of racing. I think we, as I said earlier, we hit it from a bunch of different vantage points. So it's not like any one of them is right or wrong. You know, like Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi's vantage point is as important to me as anybody else's.

They just see the world differently. Jeff Gluck had, I think it was last week, he had a, he has on his Gluck cast, which is the Thursday episode. He'll have interviews, and he had one with Tommy Joe Martins last week. And it's just like, I didn't know anything about Tommy Joe Martins, to be honest with you.

But, man, I just thought the conversation was amazing. And, you know, I really do feel a sense of pride when I go, we produce that. We produced that. And Jeff Gluck, because we had the wherewithal to get Jeff Gluck on our platform, he went and got, he had the, the instincts to go get that.

And that was an amazing. conversation that I learned a lot from. So like, yeah, I think that we, I have a vision. I have a strategy. It's, I always want us to do racing better than everyone else. I say this a lot. We're still an Earnhardt company. Earnhardt's do one thing.

They race. That's not changing. So if, if, if this is a Dale Earnhardt Jr. company, I can promise you that racing is going to be something we do very well. And it's going to be. in a priority doesn't mean that we're not going to try to do other things well. But knowing who we are and who are, again, being true to ourselves, I think that there's room for all of that. You mentioned earlier about not having a business plan when we talked about, you know, dirty-mo

media and kind of its roots. And I'm asked that all the time, you know, what's the business, you know, did you and Dale set out to do this? You know, what did you and Dale set out to do? And, you know, I go back to thinking about our Hooters Pro Cup car and our late model car and how that turned into Xfinity because an opportunity came, timing, you know, all of those things. An opportunity came, a bus car at the time. And then now being four cars in their Raleigh series. And we've never had a business plan. You know, we don't have a written business plan. We do have a philosophy on how we operate.

We be in junior motorsports? We is in junior motorsports, me and Dale, etc. You know, we have a philosophy on how we operate and what we want to do. I don't think a business plan is always necessary. You know, I think that you look at, you know, you're having conversations. You look at opportunities just like the opportunity with rodeo. You're having a conversation with Austin. You learn about this other sport that's out there.

And then you figure, you're thinking that you're going to do something with it. And then you figure out the right thing to do with it, right? So I think that's kind of how our business has been built. But the philosophy kind of, I feel like, always stays the same and the principles and, you know, who we are, what kind of people we want to work here, the culture of the company and all that. When you set out for Dirty Mo Media, is that philosophy, how's that philosophy changed? I remember the day it changed. How you set out. I remember the day it changed.

You're right. I didn't have a business plan for Dirty Mo Media. What we had was a brand plan of Dale Jr., content, continuation of what we started early. in the junior motorsports days and it just kind of grew on us. I remember the day. I don't, I remember the day. I don't remember the date. But I do remember you and I talking and then me and Dale talking. And it's like, hey, I'm, I'm on the brand team. Dirty Moe is a side project. I don't have a business plan. I think I might have had even one or two employees. I don't even, it was probably one. And it's like, I'm not doing a good job on the brand or on Dirty Mo Media because they're both,

there's attention and trying to keep me in all these things. I'm not doing either one of them right. What do we want? Do we want to get serious about this? Or do we, are we okay with it just being on the side? Dale Jr. says, let's get serious. And I'm like, do we want to like get after it serious? Like, like, get after. He's like, let's get after it. I said, okay, well, if we're going to do that, I can't be on the brand anymore. And you and I had already talked about this. But it's like, again, us going to Dell about it. I can't be on meetings about Whiskey River or, you know, books and these kind of things because my heart is actually, I think, I think we have opportunity here, but we don't have a plan and we certainly haven't figured out. We've made it a business, but the business plan at that point was don't lose Dale money. Yeah.

Don't lose Dell money. Don't cost Dale money. Don't cost Dale money. Don't make it where we have to ask Dell for money. That's exactly right. That was our plan. The same plan on junior. Okay.

Don't ask Dell or Mr. H for money. Right. If you can make them money, but that was not in the vision at that point. It was just don't cost Dale money. Right. So if we're going to get serious about it, well, then let's figure out a way to make the money, right? Or let's wait to do it. One of that meant I need to come off of the brand team and I need to start hiring people

in a team around me. So I think this was around 2018, 2019. I know that I hired Tiff Powers in 2022. So it was this, you know, manifestation of building up a team around us to really kind of get after it. A key part of the business strategy was getting with then Silver Tribe. Now they're called initial digital. Michael Klein and Jack Rose were really helpful for me into building this into a actual strategy. And they continue to this day to be an asset to me.

And I left a meeting with them, both of those guys, before I came here today. So, and listen, the thing I loved about them is that they never try to change us. You think of Los Angeles agencies and stuff like that. They're not trying to become, trying to make us L.A-ified. And we're not trying to be. We know who we are. But they were able to help author a strategy for us. to make this into a viable business. And it was when we started turning this into a viable

business that I started becoming really protective of the business itself, the identity of who we are. And it's still a work in progress, frankly. But, you know, like, that's one of my things. It's one of my pet peeves is like, you know, when we aren't treated as a business that we are, I understand why, because we didn't start out that way, but we have evolved into that. And so that's kind of like what we are. So our business strategy now is starting shows, bringing on clients, being the best at what we can do to serve brands in the branded content business. We had a really successful San Diego where we activated for Arby's and the U.S. Navy. We did two live shows out there. That's when it's working well because the business responds well to that. Well, you talked

about your pet peeve. You got another pet peeve in there. Oh, I got. I've got a lot of pet peeves. Yeah. Give me another one. Well, okay. One of my pet peeves is I don't really like hearing people's criticisms when I would never talk to them about advice. Like when I never would seek people's advice, I certainly don't care about their opinions or critique. I've never been, there was a time I wasn't that good at that. And I would let that fester wait. more than I needed to. But at the end of the day, listen, I'm about to turn 50 this year. So in my old days here, as I turn 50, I've started to prioritize my time and the things that I would waste my time on, I don't do that as much anymore. I let it go. Or again, I can count on one hand how many people I really care about their advice. You're one of them. So it's like, if you come back to me and you say something to me, I'm going to listen to it. But if there's people that I would never take their advice for. I'm not going to let it in my day. And my pet peeve is the people that do let

those things. They get caught up. Also a pet peeve of mine. And you'll know this because this is one of our fun little things with Dale Jr. I'm very strategic. If we operate off of a strategy, you know, get away from a strategy. I don't know what to do with that. And so like when, you know, like Dale sort of is more instinctual. When you had to film the basketball league. What's that? When you had to film the basketball league way back in the day. Basketball league, yeah. Well, listen, that was... Getting off strategy.

Well, yeah, that was off strategy. Also, I lost an ACL in that one, too, that we needed to get back. But, you know, Dale was very instinctual. Today's baseball cards is tomorrow's brisket, and then tomorrow's brisket is, you know what? It's whatever. And by the way, that's authentically him, so I'll never ask him to be anything different. I also don't like it when I get asked to be different. And that is, I need, look, I operate off a strategy here.

It's a business strategy. vision. It allows room for some maneuvering and some fun time and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, I do got to make sense of it. And that's a pet peeve of mine when we go, hey, Reddit says this. Reddit says this isn't working. The data says it is. I'll sit there with the data and then let Reddit, you know, critique it in their own space. Exactly. And that's not me trying to call out Reddit. I'm about to get roasted from Reddit now for that. No, but that's important. The data, I say that all the time to people. The data is what you need to lean in on.

Like, you know, it's not emotions. It's not what you think people are going to do. What's working? Even if you're not doing it, so therefore you can't define what's working, you can look at other things to decipher if it could work or what the roadblocks are going to be or what's going to trip you up or things like that. There are things that you get to look at. But yeah, I'm the same way.

I don't like always how many people said that or, you know, whatever the situation is that we're working on. You know, it often reminds me of dealing with people. And if you hear a complaint, is it one complaint or is it 10 complaints? You know, if it's one complaint out of my employees, you know, maybe I need to look into it a little bit, but it's probably not that significant. If there's 10 complaints about the same thing, maybe I need to take it more seriously, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But how do you, again, I wonder from you, you have, you have, you, you really, you really, you really,

run an entire operation. So like when you, how do you decide between what you go spend the next hour of your time when it comes to complaints on? Maybe you have multiple complaints. Yeah. How do you decide, all right, I'm going to stop what I'm doing and I'm going to go fix the, put out this fire? I think just priority on, you know, thinking about that from, from, you know, business stuff going on every day. Obviously, I get lots of emails about, we're working with. this and here's the request that we need to get approved by you or whatever or if I've got a fire going on between people or something that's brewing. I mean, I just just prioritize by which one can affect me the quickest that I need to get in front of it. Yeah. Seriously.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's going to what's going to turn sour the quickest? What's going to be an issue the quickest? Or what's going to be helpful? You know, what's going to be the best. If I give this answer on a partnership, does that get us that much closer to the finish line, you know, or whatever that looks like? But sometimes you just have to wait. I mean, I have to, you know, we, a lot of things that we do go through Dale. And, you know, he's busy on the weekends broadcasting. He doesn't. What we know about Dale is we need a clear mind where he can focus on something or we need it to be coming from him to us, right? And then you get it. And then you get into this conversation about wherever he's at or if he calls you and says, hey, what do you

think about X, Y, Z? Then you've got the platform to talk about that and maybe something else, you know. Yeah. Because that's important that we, you know, Dale's involved in so many of our things, but it's important for us to find that opportunity where we can get a clear moment of his time because he's in a lot of different directions, right? So, yeah, I'm prioritizing what's going to benefit me the most if it's putting out of fire or if it's benefiting me to something good.

So those are decisions that you make every day. We talked a lot about your hiring process. You've grown your team. I think you're 17 strong. Where are you 16, 17 strong somewhere in that neighborhood? You had to move out of our building because you're growing so much. We're growing. You're growing.

Got a great space right here up the road on our, if we want to call it, our campus, so to speak. Oh, that's right. We're firstly a campus now. I know. I didn't realize that. We're a campus. We're a campus. Take that, Mr. H. I know, right.

We got our own campus now. But, you know, you, one of the things that I've seen about you and your people are how people grow within your organization. And you give them opportunity to grow. You have people, you know, that have started on your team. I can think of a couple, you know, Travis Rockhold, Alex. I think of a few that have, have grown. grown into new roles and new positions. You know, how do you bet on people like that?

What are you providing that giving them them opportunities and what do you see in that's working from your perspective as a leader? All right. Let me think about this one. That's a good question. All right. Well, I go back. Okay.

So not everybody's story is the same, but I think we can find some commonality in here. First of all, the, the, the people. that are like let's let's let's let's start with some of the you mentioned Travis Rockhold he came to us a few years ago but like we've got people that have been in the organization for more than 10 years right James Brossan who's integral part stuff like that he was at Hammerhead before it came here so like we got employees that came from Hammerhead right at the end of the day the people that are able to thrive at Dirty Mo Media are ones that bet on themselves, understand their role, work as a team,

because again, we do run at lean. You mentioned 16, 17 people, but like, we operate bigger than that. And I know that the people that we compete against, and I say compete in air quotes, but like the people that, you know, have other things. Let's just take Fox, for example. Yeah. Okay. I bet you Fox has a lot more resources than we have. And I bet Happy Harvick's podcast has a lot more resources that we have.

By the way, that's fine. That's who they are. We run it differently. We're leaner. And we have people that know how to fill gaps in lines better than the rest. I think that there's an efficiency about that. I think that also there's leadership. And I'm not even talking about myself.

I'm talking about, you know, the executives that we have in our team and the department heads. You mentioned Alex and Travis. People know Travis Rock Cold as being the producer of Denny's show and the Dale Jr. download. But what Travis is, is the most versatile, well-rounded producer that we could possibly have in the... Think about Denny just last night. He didn't get home until 4.30 a.m. Well, the plan was to tape actions detrimental today at 10 a.m. turns out they're not doing it until 5 p.m. I would not be able to keep that schedule. I got a family and I've got to pick up this and pick up that and do this and do that. Travis just Johnny on the spot and is able to do

that. He's also able to go to sons and daughters and do stuff for Shannon Spake and that kind of stuff. That's a team mentality that if you don't have it, it isn't going to work at Dirty Mo Media. So I think there's a commonality between that. I think that when I brought Tiff Powers on in 2022, this was the second time she'd worked for us. That was a big step. I needed somebody that I knew that could hold an iron fist, but also have compassion and empathy. She would say she doesn't have empathy, but understand and, you know, how to make decisions in different areas. She works well. Colby Bass is amazing energy and ideas, and she's able to work with the producers very well.

everybody knows their role. Not everybody has, and they don't really last very long at Dirty Mo. Because, again, you know, that's like, you know, if it becomes sort of about yourself and about that, we want to take care of people, but we also have to understand why we show up to work every day. And the people, look, the hours are not going to be normal. There never are, not in our business. We operate off deadlines and their daily deadlines and the grind. And by the way, we also have a high standard of quality.

And we go through these things. And so that also adds time to it. And so we try to be quick and nimble, but also good and quality and all these, hard to do all this stuff on a set schedule. And yet, people still show up to work. They show up like Mr. H says with their game face on. They show up on time. And that's what we ask of them. In return, I try to give them leniency and latitude where they need it, right? I do believe in a work-life balance. We got families that we want to be there for, right? I got my own. And so it's a balance. It's a daily intentionality to commit to that type of thing.

But at the same time, I think that's what I see to work well for us. I don't know if it changes. It doesn't work that way for everybody else. But for us, you know, up in our new building on campus here, that's what works for us. On the Northwest Quadrant. I don't know where you are. Oh, yeah. We should come up with some directional type stuff there to make us seem important.

Well, you know, I was thinking leading off of that question. I mean, you know, the old saying it does start at the top. And I believe in that. I mean, I believe that you provide that work environment, that opportunity. You know, they're taking the lead from what you put out, you know, and taking the lead from what you're giving them. So, and it works well. It works really well.

You've got some great, great, great people. When you look around Dirty Mo Media, what makes you most proud? besides your new building. The new building is up there. Yeah, for sure. I love the new building. I love the new building. I do.

I love it. And by the way, that's another whole conversation. I'm going to answer your question, but I will say that it's also taught us that when you're not in part of the, you know, the, what do you call it, the center part of like, you know, not being in your orbit every day. Like you do lose some of that stuff. And so, you know, it's required us to be. You have to be more intentional. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So, listen, I am proud, when I am proud of the shows that we've created and what I think that they're doing from a historical standpoint and also from a personal standpoint. I see, I see Dale Jr. in a different place than he was when we started the download. I mean, this was the guy that was the introvert. He could never have held a long form conversation. He wouldn't have wanted to. Yeah. I was with him. You've been with him when he tried to get him back in the day. I mean, like that you would never bet that he was going to be a podcast host. But here he is and he thrives in it. He's so good at it. I think it's a real value to the industry. I take pride in that. I take pride in that bless your heart. I take pride in the fact that Amy's come out of her shell and they get to, they open us up to their lives. I don't take it for granted. I'm proud that we've been able to develop that thing. When we did Lost Speedways, that was that was a that happened to be right at the time when the COVID situation took root and yeah you guys were operating under COVID we were not just operating under COVID but we were under contract to provide peacock yeah yeah to you know a batch of shows and we were one of only four out of all the the shows that they were going to launch peacock with we were only one of only four that actually came through with our commitment. on time. That's right. That's right. And the way we did it, we had to get real creative, but by,

by, like, our, our track was, the last track, the last episode we were going to do was in San Francisco. The same place that they couldn't even park the big cruise ship because, because of a COVID outbreak and nobody knew what the heck was going on and all the stuff. So we, our plans got canceled and we got together our little team and just said, how do we go make our commitment true to Peacock and still do it? And so we got to. creative and we still, and I'm proud of that. I'm proud that, you know, we've been able to build this into a business. We're able to serve partners in a way. I hope we add value to the other parts of the Dale Jr. Orbit, like the brand team and the race team. I think that we've certainly

given people additional things to consider on how to activate within our company. All that to be said, it's hard for me to sit there and pinpoint like things because I feel like we're still so early in our story. You're still growing. And I don't want to be like, I don't really want to check up and go, oh, let's start counting our wins. I don't, I'm not really in the wind counting mindset right now. I'm like, you know, we got new shows to make. We got new verticals to start. I really want to see the F1 show start. I want to see a football vertical started. And I want to continue evolving. And one day we'll come back and look and see all the things that made me pre. but I do think that it'll exceed some of the things that we can see right now.

Again, in hindsight, it's a lot easier to look at. I hope that we have a big flourishing partnership with NASCAR one day to talk about how that worked because so far I've not really, I'm not succeeding in that one. And so I don't know. That's my answer to that, I think. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, Mike, it's been a great conversation.

You know, we've talked a lot about where you began, where your goal. what you're doing, how you've grown. You've grown and Dirty Mo Media has changed. You've stayed true to what you built Dirty Mo Media on, which is fantastic. You got a lot of runway ahead of you, lots of ideas, a lot of great people. I hope people have enjoyed hearing about the business and its growth. I hope they've enjoyed, and I hope they have a better understanding now of maybe why you left this table originally and you're not, you want to one last kick your feet up on the table,

put your boot up on the table and lay back from the download days. Come on, do it with me. You know, they told me, they said, don't be leaning back in your chair, but I'm like, I don't know any other way. Don't leave me alone. These mic arms move with me so I can get comfortable. Oh, yeah, I forgot. I got to move this part.

My shoes are in the way. This is how we do that, right? This is it. One last good hurrah. Because I'm going back into my shell. Like this, I said, I'm going to come talk to Kelly and we'll talk about this company, and this is the way we'll do it. And then I'm going to go right back behind the cameras where I belong.

It's going back behind the curtain. All right, Mike, it's been super fun. I appreciate you sitting down to tell the story. We've definitely taken up a lot of your time and my time, and I hope everyone enjoys it and has enjoyed this episode of Business and Motorsports. This episode of Business and Motorsports is presented by Arby's. Don't forget about Arby's new meat in three box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's.

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