The Dale Jr. Download - Rajah Caruth: I’ve Had Pressure My Entire Driving Career

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Dale Earnhardt Jr. welcomes in Rajah Caruth on the heels of announcing Rajah as a part-time driver for JRM in the #88 car next season.Rajah’s path to prominence in the NASCAR national scene had a unique start - as he went from iRacing to racing in real life in a matter of years. After finding success in an e-racing league, Rajah was invited to try out for the Rev Racing combine. From there, he got seat time in a legend's car during the Summer Shootout Series held at Charlotte Motor Speedway. He’d move quickly through the late model stock ranks, where he found victory lane at famed short tracks like Greenville, Hickory, and Tri-County. Although he was a “late bloomer” in racing by today’s standards, his experience and determination led him to a full-time Truck opportunity, where he continues to make history as he marches towards this year’s Championship Four. And for more content check out our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMediaReal fans wear Dirty Mo. Hit the link and join the crew.👇https://shop.dirtymomedia.com/FanDuel: Must be 21+ and present in select states (for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino) or 18+ and present in D.C. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call [phone] for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I had zero real-life experience. I just said, hey, I raced rental co-carts at an indoor place in Maryland, and just Simrace, and that was it. And that was good enough to get a try-out, you know, at the Combine in March of 2019. What's the Combine look like? Going race, I guess it was Rotex carts maybe or maybe KAs. And that was my first time in an actual cart. Ever.

Ever. I thought that that was my shot, and I blew it, and I didn't do good enough. Got the message a couple weeks later that they had picked me to run a legend car that summer. The following is a production. of Dirty Mode Media. Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. back again for another episode of Dale Jr. Download. And this guest today is Roger Akeruth, the race car driver of the number 71 in the truck series for Spire going for an opportunity to race in the championship final at Phoenix.

I've known him for several years and had some communications and text messages and conversations and been kind of watching this young guy work his way through the ranks. and really getting a bit of a late start, but fast forwarding through late models, ARCA, into truck, becoming a winner at the truck level, showing what he's capable of, and I think the ceiling is still way up there. There's still a lot of growth to be had.

Next year he's going to drive here at Junior Motorsports, so we're going to have a lot of fun getting to know him even more over the next 12 months, and we're excited about that. But let's get him in the room and see what this is all about. So what's going on? Nothing much, just still being salty about Sunday. Why? The football game.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I was thinking maybe from your race. No, no, race was cool. But yeah, I was depressed watching the football games. So, yeah, we'll just jump right on top of that, man. You're a commander's fan being from D.C. Me too.

And we've talked about that a lot. this year ain't turned out like I thought I was going to. We've got a lot of problems. Well, I mean, honestly, I mean, we've dealt with worse. Sure. For me, like, growing up, I grew up, like, with RG3 and, like, Santana Moss and all those guys. And then with Dwayne Haskins and Sam Howell and Alex Smith. So there's been worse, and I still got faith in the year.

But, yeah, like you said, for me, growing up in D.C., I was a big, big sports hand. So basketball, the Capitals won a championship when I was in high school. same with the Nats and all that. So great to see the absent flow of sports, right? It's always circles, and hopefully it's not the downside of the circle this season. Yeah, I know. I find it interesting that, you know, I've been watching Washington since around 1982, and, man, there was a lot of good years, a lot of championships.

So I've experienced that as well as what we've dealt with since the early 90s, and we've struggled and we you know things got turned around last year and the the conversation that fan base has now is so unique compared to what it used to be like you know and this is a cliche thing to say but before social media so like we we got jaden Daniels and we had a really good year last year and it was you know you probably experiencing one of the best years ever yeah that i can remember period, right? And I'm sitting there going, man, this reminds me of what it was like in the 90s when we were really good. And this is great. And man, new ownership, knew this, knew this, and we're all heading in the right direction. And then this year, we've had nothing but

struggles, injuries, a lot of injuries. Jaden's kind of got banged up. And it's, it's nerve-wracking kind of to watch them because of, you know, how hard he's trying and how much he's trying to make happen. Yeah. And how dangerous that's, you know, been for him to sort of have to be that guy. I was worried going into Dallas game, I'm like, man, without any receivers and him not being able to be as mobile as he wants to be with the brace on his leg, this just sounds like a, this is going to be tough. Yeah. And unfortunately, he had a hamstring injury in the middle of the game, and I'm like, that's exactly what I thought would happen, you know. And like you said, it's going to be probably a tough couple games coming up with Kansas and Seattle, Detroit. So.

play. And so, but you'll, we came out of last year, this is kind of a bigger conversation around just social media and the conversation on, on, that we have these days and how fast the news cycle is. We come out of last year and there's all this positivity. And then we have like these every week, Washington social media, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, social media is, they are all over the place. Like, from one extreme. A little bit of fair weather. Yeah. So from one extreme to the other, this, these last couple weeks, man, it's just been noisy. Yeah, but I feel like that's more, you mentioned social media. I think everything gets dramatized a little bit for clicks and stuff.

And it is funny. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's just even in general, I don't, you know, my algorithm just sends me all kinds of like just regular fans, you know, just saying whatever they want to say right into the middle of distance. And yeah. And it's like, wow, you know, everybody's got so many opinions about like, boy, we got to fire this guy. we got to get rid of this guy. After one game. One game.

One game can have them like, we're great. Everything's fine. To like this guy's falling. Yeah. I mean, you see the same thing in our sport. Like have one bad race or one mistake, one pick call, one tire slipper, hit the fence one time. Then it's like, oh, that guy should lose his ride.

Or one race or one moment. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah. I'm glad, I guess, that I am not, I'm no longer the performer in that type of an environment. Like I, when I was. racing at the end of my career, social media was just kind of starting to really spool up and become something. When I was finishing my racing career, social media was still very,

I would say, generally fun and new. And we were all still like taking pictures of our lunch and posting our favorite songs and just being, you know, talking about all that stuff. But now it feels like it's kind of developed into this place where, it's news and it's it's it's constructive and not constructive but it's very now very loud and very noisy um and i'm kind of glad that i'm not still a racer with that going on because it's a new it's a new thing to navigate for a professional athlete i think that's a good point especially for a driver like myself that is a grown up with in this age of technology but also like trying to build a brand and build a name for yourself it's it's crazy because it's you're up for

scrutiny are for criticism, but also, you know, for the good side of things. So it's a matter of just keeping pushing and not being, you know, okay with getting the instant gratification and, you know, building out a body of work, but also not getting discouraged in the shortcomings. I did that. So when I was, that's what social media had become to me was instant gratification in terms of, man, if I had a bad race, I had to go on there and make sure everything was okay, right? Yeah, and I had it in a certain way. I had to find some sort of response that. for me to feel okay, right? And, oh man, yeah. I just, you know, I'm amazed at what the driver has to do today compared to what it was like when I was racing. And not only, you know, social media,

there's a ton of opportunity there, brand building, you know, if you've got projects, other things you're working on outside of what you're driving, what you're doing there, being able to easily quickly reach out to people and get to a bunch of people immediately about these things you're working on, whether it's a podcast or products or whatever business you may be starting on the side. But also, Sim, studying, meetings, prep. So I don't even, I don't know if you're aware, but like when, in 2014, you know, it feels like yesterday. It's quite a ways away, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not many years ago,

there wasn't any SIM. If I told me, there was no SIM. Everyone, like Chad Knauss, Steve LaTart, they thought that irasin was a toy. It was not to be used as a tool. They wouldn't tell their driver to go home and run a track on iraicing. They'd think that that was the silliest idea ever. It was not going to be beneficial in any way. there was one meeting, the comp meeting on a Tuesday that was an hour, and we didn't meet much before or after that as a team. I'd maybe go sit in Steve's office for some conversation, but there was not, there wasn't the prep that you guys do today. It's all day, every day. I love it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that you don't know any different. Right. Right. But like for

it seems so foreign to learn like what you and all of the other drivers in the top three levels are having to commit to. I don't know how else to say it, but it doesn't sound appealing. What do you love about it? I think for me, that's a great point because you have to eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff if you want to be successful because the guy that you're racing door to door with the guy or gal, they're doing the same thing. for myself, I didn't grow up racing at all, and I just was just a pure racing fan, and I have had such an appreciation for it that I really just longed for the opportunity to grind and study this stuff. Like, I mean, in high school, I'd be doing my work and have

in cars playing in the background just for fun on the computer, you know? It was, to me, it's not work, and it's not a grind in the sense. It's more of just an opportunity to taste a dream. Yeah. And like you mentioned with our technology, with the DIL, and I racing and YouTube, like that information is available at our fingertips. Like I can pull up one of your in cars from, you know, from the eight car, the 88 and or old Jimmy clips and stuff like that and have it, you know, in 30 seconds. And it's great that that info is available because if you want it, you can get it and put what you want into it.

So for me, it's just a great opportunity. I enjoy doing that stuff because this is, you know, pretty much all I've ever wanted to do. So it's insane to me that now fast forward 10 years. years, eye racing is a tool. A lot of drivers look at it as a very viable way to be fresh and understand racecraft. I already knew that for years. Like I could, I could a person, an individual of just a regular consumer with no aspirations of becoming a race car driver was learning racecraft on a sim, on eye racing unknowingly, right? Becoming better at getting to the end of races,

not crashing, not being foolish, not making mistakes. It's crazy how much you pick up from that stuff. Yeah. And so the rest of the, our industry, NASCAR, has now embraced that as a legitimate tool. You have manufacturers spending millions of dollars on SIM rigs, static and motion sig sim rigs. And so that's really the platform of your existence in motorsport. Like you, you don't come from a racing family. You did go to races as a young kid, but you learned how to drive a race car on a SIM rig.

Yeah, I didn't get into a Legend Card, so I was 17, you know. So take me start, let's go all the way back. What's the first thing that you remember about motorsports racing of any kind where you went, I like that, I want to know more about this? For me, it was two things. For one, it was the Cars movie when that came out and I was a little kid. but also my dad traveled a lot, and still travels a lot, but traveled a lot for work. And the music industry and sports through his years, really just doing a lot of cool stuff.

And when he'd travel, he'd bring back cool stuff for my sister and I. I've got a sister, well, 20 now, little sister, but not really little sister. And he'd bring back cool diecast for me. And it was not anything of like, hey, trying to get me in racing, it just would be from a place he traveled. And that was the first thing that sparked of like, oh, this is cool. And then from then on, I would just watch races on TV. I remember watching an old nationwide race at Michigan that Brackzalowski won. And then I'd watch stuff on YouTube, like old stop motions and NR 2003 videos.

And would watch like NASCAR Now and wind tunnel and just everything I could get my hands on on ESPN and Race Hub when it was a thing and the speed channel. And I just would intake all that stuff. So that was really my first exposure to racing. was through that. When, when did you learn or when did it dawn on you that you could, you could race? I mean, you know, I racing, we don't call I race in a video game. But I remember, so I remember, I'll try to help you understand what I'm trying to get to. I remember when Papyrus came out with the first NASCAR game on PC.

And like, you know, I couldn't believe that this, I could, do this in my house. This was different than, you know, playing on a console. Consoles in the 90s weren't, you know, weren't what they are today. And I had to, I had to get a computer. I had to. I had to get a computer. I had to get a Thrustmaster wheel. Everybody used a Thrustmaster T.S.W. And so I could, I mean, it was just, it blew my mind that this technology existed, that they had made this game that I could play on this computer and could race against, you know, either in single player or I could call, we called a phone line in Massachusetts. Oh, that's cool.

It was called Hawaii. Had you ever heard about this? No, no. Oh, my God. So this is the beginning. Yes. This is the, all the same people that created I race and built this papyrus game. That was who they worked for.

The company was called papyrus owned by Sierra. And they made NASCAR, I think it was 94 or 94. or 95 when this came out. And they had an online component. And to race online, you had to have a dial-up connection, and it called a phone number in Massachusetts long distance. And so you didn't pay for like a monthly plan. You just called this number, and it charged you.

My first phone bill after having a month of racing online was $400. It was a $20 residential bill that turned into the real problem. for my roommate and who was my brother at a time and I stayed up all night long racing on what it was called Hawaii I don't know why they call it that but that was the online component for the NASCAR game back then and man it was crazy you couldn't believe that there was an actual human driving the car in front of you it just that was that technology was just like brand new and I was sitting there going wow this is the greatest thing ever and I couldn't I stayed up all night I would get done my brother would come out of his room going to work I worked at the

dealership with him changing oil. And he'd come out of his room dressed for work. And I'd still be on that thing racing. And I'd run into my room and get my clothes on and go straight to work and then run home and jump right back on there. And so like take me to that, take me to that moment for you when you when you said, hey, I can actually do this on simulation at home. And it really became this, this hobby or something you really enjoyed. For sure. So I guess I'll go back a little bit. Yeah, I was born in Atlanta, but grew up in Brooklyn, and really D.C. is where I spent, you know, I was from seven to, you know, graduating in high school in D.C. And when I was in D.C., we'd have, you know, family and stuff coming up from Brooklyn and New York and, or Brooklyn and Atlanta. And my family is from the Caribbean, so that's where, you know, they came to the States.

And one of my aunts actually gave me a NASCAR encyclopedia. And that was really cool because it really just spurred the interest. And like I mentioned, would watch NR 2003 videos, NASCAR will. 7-08, you know, on YouTube. And it was always like, oh, I want to start, you know, driving, you know, playing video games. And it wasn't like, oh, I think I can go and race because of it. He just was like, oh, it's cool, it's fun. It's something tangible I can do to, you know, further this passion.

And I actually got the NASCAR game on the weed, NASCAR 2011, I believe, was my first video game. And played that and it was a lot of fun. And then got my first PlayStation around the time that I went to my first race, which was at Richmond and I was around 12 and got a PS3, got NASCAR 14 at the time. And that was the first experience of playing games. And it was great because they'd have different leagues on there that I did. And it was just a matter of something tangible I could do that I felt like it was making me a driver.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. And it was a lot of fun. From then on I would see people make eye racing videos because I guess that would be 2014, 15 in that time. I'm irasing with the Coke series becoming a thing and watching like PJ Sturgios and Conce and all those guys. You know, was a lot of people in their mind when they start seeing or learn about eye racing, they

think, man, how expensive is that? Yes, especially for my parents for sure. Because I didn't see it yet as a pathway to go and race. It just was like, oh, it's the cool game. It's the next thing to get. But you got to get a PC. Got to get a PC. I had to get my sister to put it on credit.

I didn't have any credit. I had to beg my sister to put it on her name, and I had to pay her $100 a month to pay off that PC I bought in the 90s. My first computer I had iraicing on was my school laptop. It was a MacBook, and I had to split the hard drive to put windows on it. I nuked that thing for sure and connected it with the HDMI to like a small monitor that we had in the house. But that was my first time I racing. And at that point, to get my first PC, we did a fundraiser with like family,

and friends to get like a PC, an $80 thrust master wheel from Best Buy, and that was my first time getting on eye racing. Yeah. And so you become a regular on eye racing. When you were 16, you raced in the Enascar Ignite series. So, you know, is it ever at that point starting to become like this idea of, man, how do I get? I really. Yes, at that point.

Tell me what your thoughts were, I suppose, when you were like, man, I think I really want to. well i i think it cleared up like it was this was what i wanted to do right i wanted to be a i want to be a you know sunday guy and at that point william had won his championship over here and you felt like that william was the example yeah he was the example that background yep that was the selling point to my parents of like i'm gonna you know i know i got to go to school and go to college but i want a race and this is what i'm passionate about and this is my dream and that was the perfect example um so yeah i think at that point have you ever told william that Actually, I've never told him that.

Yeah. So William has ebbed and flowed about his, how much eye racing or, you know, coming from simulation as a kid influenced his career, right? And, you know, I feel like that it's no different than you. Him racing on the computer on eye racing at home absolutely helped him develop and become and find a route right into where he is today. But at times he's a bit standoffish to promote that publicly outwardly, right? And he didn't want to kind of be branded as that guy that was like a sim racer, which it's much, maybe even a couple years ago. It was maybe not the way you wanted to do it.

But I think it gets cooler as we go down this road and everybody realizes how much of how realistic guy racing is. But I think he would really appreciate knowing that he was that example for you. Yeah, he was. is he's probably that example, as you have become now, for thousands of customers. Like, iRacing has hundreds of thousands of active customers, paying customers, that are probably sitting there going, I wonder if I could do that as well, right? Yeah, I think, I mean, that's really the only reason I was able to start a driving career at all. I think if not, I'd have gone to school, and I still went to school, but I've gone and would have been in the sport in a marketing role or something like that or a business side of things.

but I got on i racing the summer of 2018 and i did the ignite series like you mentioned i was 16 um i had a summer job i was uh running track and field i played sports in high school so i was doing that in the summertime what sports besides track and field basketball and soccer but really really track was was what i did the most and that's really helped with the training side of things now as you know with josh and everything and um that summer i would be get up go to the the job which was a summer youth employment program in D.C. where it was cool. We do different things to learn about finances and stuff like that. And I'd do that. Then go to track practice, which would either be, you know, at this place called Rock Creek Park in D.C., where just go and do cross-country workouts and stuff and then

go home. And similar to, like you were saying, race really all through the night and repeat again, you know, through that summer. And, I mean, I got on, I turned 16 and then a week later, I gone on eye racing and then the Ignite series started and played that whole, or race that whole summer trying to learn quickly yeah i had to do it in a short you know a couple months before the figuring out like jumping on i racing and like understanding how to be fast and it is not easy is not easy like even i'll take breaks like i haven't been on i racing in quite a while honestly um and i had a large break from like 2012 to 2017 um and man it isn't it isn't something that's very easy to like it's you can anyone can jump in there and do it

But like to be the top, you know, 20% of the users on the service, it's something you have to really work at. For sure. To find real speed. Yeah. And it really comes down to time. And that's why you see a lot of the guys that are coming up through the Coke series now are on the younger side of things, right? And they're able to test and, you know, log hours when they're not working or not in school and stuff. And like I said, that summer I had that time to do that.

So it was kind of a great, the stars-aligning moment for sure, of when that compliment. competition came out. I mean, it was only a thing for a couple of years. Tell me about the competition. So it was for 13 to 16 year olds. I was right at the age limit for it. And it was a eight week kind of prelim series. And you had to be in the top 50 total, whatever your region was to make the playoff deal. And I did that. And I had some friends that I had known from racing NASCAR 15 on the PlayStation. They kind of showed me the ropes of like, all right, this is like the settings. You don't need to look at your speed. That's what you have to do for running the, you know, running the official series and testing and all that stuff. And luckily it was a fixed series, so it didn't have to do much, just have to learn how to drive. And yeah, I made the playoffs, made the final race. And I didn't end up winning the whole deal, obviously. And I thought, man, that was my one shot to race.

I thought that was it. If you won the whole thing, what happens? It was, I think Zach Novak won it, or either Zach or Breyer, I can't remember. But you got a test and I think a scholarship or something like that. It what? I think it was a late model, I'm pretty sure. And yeah, I didn't win that, and I thought that was it for me. And at that time, my dad, he's a teacher at Howard University now in the School of Communications,

and through a connection he had, one of his students came through the NASCAR Diversity Interns Program, and her name is Karen Grant. She's not with NASCAR anymore, but she actually got us to able to get some passes for my first time to go to a race and have hot passes. and I can send you the pictures. It's pretty funny, like, seeing, like, pictures with Drew Blikinsterver and Billy Scott and stuff. And at that time, I just was trying to introduce myself to people of, hey, I'm my irascer, and I've been wanting to be a fan or be a racer for a long time, and I've been a fan forever. And hopefully this gets somewhere.

And I met the folks at Rev and the NASCAR Drive for Diversity program right after that series ended. But, yeah, I didn't win the deal, and I thought that was it. How did the deal with Rev come about? So I applied for their program and those that are over there with Mark Green and and Tucson Hamilton and all that and applied. Jefferson Hodges was there at the time. He's at Penske now. And I applied and they gave me a tryout.

And I was the only I racing kid that they had ever got to, you know, give a tryout for their youth deal. And it was go card. What was that like? Well, for starters, I didn't even think I did good enough to get it. And I submitted the application online. and I had zero real-life experience. I just said, hey, I raced rental go-carts at an indoor place in Maryland and just sim race, and that was it.

And that was good enough to get a try-out at the Combine in March of 2019. What's the Combine look like? It was go-carts. Well, first it was a physical training and marketing side of things. We went to the Hall of Fame. We went and did like a push-up test and baseline fitness. And then after that, the next day was going over to Track House, which was GoPro Motorplex at the time and go and race, I guess it was Rotex carts maybe or maybe KAs.

And that was my first time in an actual cart ever. And I thought I sucked, but from those that were there, they saw that, you know, I had never driven anything and I was really up to speed pretty quickly. Do you remember anybody else that was there? Isabella Robosta was there, LeVar Scott, some other drivers that were there. Nick Sanchez was there. He wasn't driving, but he's one of the driver coaches and liaisons. and stuff. Yeah, I've got pictures of it. What happens after that? I thought that that was my shot and I blew it and I didn't do good enough. We drove straight back from there to six hours back to D.C. and, you know, was going back to start applying to

colleges and finish out my junior year of high school, but got the message a couple weeks later that they had picked me to run a legend car that summer. Just one race? Multiple races? Oh, sorry, for the entire summer. The summer, the summer. shootout series. Really? Yeah, that was my first. Were you one of how many? One of four.

It was me, Isabella, Blake Lothian, and one other driver I can't remember. And yeah, I made the team for the summer of running the shootout and a couple other races, whether it was Anderson. Legends cars are a handful. Handful, especially to go and drive it for the first time. Yeah. No weight and a lot of power. Yep. And not a really great, I mean, not a terrible tire, just not a, you know, not a pure.

Yeah, and twitchy steering and all that. My first time driving was at the Concord, the small contract behind Concord. Before it got torn down, I pretty much blew the clutch out because I had no clue that it was a clutch. Nick was there and helped me figure out how to drive it with, like I said, Mark and Mark Green, Matt Booker, and all those guys. I can't imagine how nervous you must have been. Honestly, I wasn't nervous because I just, I didn't know what I was. I don't know what you didn't know. I didn't know what I didn't know.

So I had a test day there. I went to Shenandoah Speedway with a buddy mine, Daniel Sevetchery. You may know him. He races car store. He's up from around me in Virginia. I tested his car at Shenandoah I guess a couple weeks before the shootout started and off to the races at the start the summer.

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It's more of like I didn't know what I didn't know, right? I remember my first race. I'm like, oh, I saw a gap and try to get to somebody's right side and then I stuff myself on the fence and I still have the ball joint of that, of the legend car just sitting in my house just as a cool reminder. But yeah, that whole first summer,

again, I thought I, sucked. Like I didn't get a top 10 so like halfway through the summer and was having to run the B main to make the feature and everything. And it was a tough experience because I had such high expectations of like I was decent on sim racing and I was, you know, knew how to make speed and race and thought it would translate immediately. And it did not. I honestly had to relearn everything when I got to real life. What do you mean? Well, just in terms of the visuals, feeling it in the car, feeling the tire, the steering. And as you, as you know, like the higher you go, go, the more advanced everything gets.

But honestly, the further I've gone along on the real-eye side of things, the more iraicing has been able to kind of come back and meet in the middle and be a really good tool for me. Yeah. So. Yeah, I find that. I know, I think that's really hard to explain to somebody. And I think you're a great person to be able to do that because you've experienced it.

But I always feel like when, when I think about, so I think from this moment going forward, we got to look at iraicing as a tool, right? So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's check that box. and gain that respect. When you put somebody who's never driven a car before on eye racing, you can tell them, I would say, all right, man, if you want to try to make this a career, instead of taking you at a racetrack

and putting you in a race car for the first time, I'm going to put you on eye racing for a year or two. Great idea. But what you're going to try to do on eye racing is, I'm not worried about how fast you win or how many races you win or your winning percentage. It's all about like racecraft. Wouldn't you say?

I agree. Like you do. Trying to stay out of crashes. Yeah. Or trying not to drive yourself into crashes. Because that's the way you rank up is by just not having a lot of incident points. That's right. That's one thing I really learned the hard way my first two, three years on eye racing of like I'd be fast.

I could qualify well. But like racing was where I would not do good at, you know, whether it was like putting myself in bad spots, going for tight holes and just racking up the incident points and damaging the cars I was driving. But I really learned. really what it takes, like you mentioned, from a race craft perspective, because the margins aren't as good, right, with net code and all the different things that they have on the SIM. And honestly, that helped me from a common sense standpoint. And that's an expensive bit of experience to gain in real cars. Yeah, exactly.

If you don't have to do it in real life, it's going to, like, once you figure out the basics of, like, you know, the garage flow and using the clutch and shifting and all that stuff, like the common sense is going to kick in at a certain point. Yeah, for sure. So after the little stretch of racing in the Legends car, what was next? Yeah, I got 15 races and I thought I, again, didn't really do very good and actually got the invitation to try out for the late model deal. And that was my first time driving a late model where we went to New Smyrna and it was with Kendall Sellers. Wow. Yeah, I drove a lame all stock for the first time and then tested it for the combine, which is the same process of physical and marketing side of things.

interviews and then you know lap times testing and stuff like that and and that was my first time in late model it's October 2019 so I guess similar to you I know you mentioned that you didn't get in a late model so you were you know 16 or 17 and for me I was I was 17 and did well enough in that test to make the program for for the following year and get a full season of weekly series races on a in a late model stock where did you race so raced hickory well it was during COVID and the tire shortage so yeah hickory try to County, where my first two race tracks. Murdo Beach, I got to run the last two races there. So that was a lot of fun.

Florence ran Florence a lot. Greenville, Greenville's where I won my first race. South Boston. And I think that's all the places I went to over my two years of, you know, racing late models. But, but yeah. What would you compare the late-mile stock to? Probably an Xfinity car. I'd say it was like with the steering and just how you use the brake pedal and everything. And the power, like, as you get higher, right, the power is really the issue, but it's really about, you know, managing the load in the front tires. And you don't really ride anymore, I would say. But like, when I ran, we were on the 45s,

and like you'd run at Myrtle Beach in Florence, and you'd spent at least half the race just run around half throttle. And you don't do that in NASCAR. But, you know, really the race craft and the guys that you race, it's something that translated, not really from the trucks out of things, but definitely when I ran Xfinity. So, yeah. I run late model stock now, and we actually got the chance to race against each other a couple times. It's a really fun car and and I'm glad that it's still like a platform I suppose specifically in this area geographically in the mid-Atlantic region of the United States. It's a great platform I think for for drivers to come up through. I think you mentioned I don't remember it was you or Harvig that said it but for me like I

raced against like Sam Yarborough and Matt Cox at Florence and like Ryan Millington and like a lot of these like very strong renowned local guys and the things that you learn from them it's something that you can take the higher you go and i think i learned a lot like racing against like thomas bean at hickory and track county and a lot of those guys and um yeah uh Riley Gentry and just yeah a lot of drivers that i learned a lot from and you know whether i made mistakes or they made mistakes and and learned a lot from them and key key lessons that i learned in that in those development years yeah so after um After the late model stock deal, what's the next step for you?

Yeah, so I ran that first year, one at Greenville, one at Hickory, one, Tri-County, just weekly races and got promoted to the rev deal to run the ARCAE series. So no test or anything, just go line up for practice at New Smyrna in February of 21. So honestly, it wasn't as complicated as I thought it would be like the car itself, getting used to the brake pedal. Like the pedal ratios and stuff is different. Like you remember in the late model, like you remember, breakthroughs a lot. The shifter's just like using the clutch and everything and then it's kind of easy

with the arc of car and the transmissions with everything and getting up to speed wasn't really the issue. It just was figuring out the racecraft and visually like my first race at New Smyrna, I knocked the nose in on the restart just because it was a stack up and the gashes were the dash was flashing at me with red gauges and I'm like oh what's going on? And I didn't I didn't know but it just was running warm because of getting the nose punch in. That's something that, again, you don't really learn eye racing really at all. You just have to have those experiences in real life. But, yeah, I run late models those first two years

and at the same time run my first Arka starts. Go to Pensacola, run well there. Run well at Dover, which is a good race. That was an exhilarating experience first time there with running pretty much wide open in Arka cars. Pretty sketchy, but that race, it was cool. Tai won. Ty Gibbs. I was in it with Josh Barry. He drove Bruce Cook's car.

Parker Redscliffe was in that race, too. Taylor Gray. I think David Gillen was in it too. So it definitely was a race where it's cool to see kind of where guys are at now. But that race, I ran well at. I ended up kind of tire, which is also common for the Arca Cars at Dover, but ran well enough and that got the attention of Tommy Joe Martins for who I ran my first Xfinity starts for. I remember you going to Charlotte in the Arca Car. What was, I guess, yeah, what was the, how did the ir racing experience help you when you went to those larger tracks the mile and a halfs? Honestly, it was a big thing because it really just taught you like the arrow stuff that you don't

really get to learn until you're in real life. Like on eye racing, if you just follow the guy in the corner like, A, you're not going to turn and B, you're going to nuke your tires. And I mean, almost the same thing both true to real life. Like, it's more magnified on the real life side of things, but the same principles and concepts are there. And I think for me, like I run the next gen a lot on eye racing because it's the most updated aerodynamics. And Again, it's magnified compared to maybe trucks or Xfinity, but the principles are still there. And like you mentioned, for going and learning, learning how to run the fence at certain racetracks and move around and the arrow side of things, not only I racing health, but also going to Milbridge

and running the micro-sprint there. Yeah, I started doing that last couple of years. I've kind of been curious about that. My nephew White's racing a ton of dirt, you know. It looks fun. I keep up with him. Well, when I grew up trying to find my way in the NASCAR, I thought you had to be on asphalt, and I ran late models, and I thought I was, I thought that, like that's the truest quickest route, right? Now, obviously, there's eye racing and other things you can do, but they got Wyatt running a little, the trucks. Yeah, sprint cars and trucks jumping, you know, jumping trucks out in California. I'm like, I don't understand this route. This route doesn't, is very foreign to me,

but you're not the only driver that goes over to Millbridge. What are you learning? Yeah, I think it, for me, I started going over there, my first year, Xfinity and trucks, and then, um, you're you know, running the full arcadiel. And for me, like, A, just getting used to running next to the wall. Like, your right rear gets there before you get there with the stagger and everything and just getting used to the visuals. But, like, from a racecraft perspective, like, you learned so much through just having to know where you're at in space, knowing how to use your leverage.

And obviously, Millbridge is kind of magnified with, like, throwing sliders and stuff like that. And I wouldn't say that's the most, like, comparable thing to NASCAR, but just really the, you know, knowing where you're at and space and time. and visually being able to run close to people and not miss the corner and keep up with the racetrack changing and everything. I've run the wing and the non-wing over there, and it's been something that's really helped me level up

on the NASCAR side of things. I've never done it. Never been in anything like that. But it's fascinating. They're fun on eye racing, though. They did a pretty good job. They did? Yeah.

Oh, good. Yeah, they're pretty fun. I wonder you got a truck deal with GMS. and everybody's excited about you getting in that truck. And it does not go very well. No, you went full time in 23, but at that same time, they decide they're going to get out of the truck business and they're going to shut it down.

I remember, you know, I felt like just being at a distance from you, how uncertain that felt. You weren't really sure about what the next thing was going to be. Take us through that time and kind of how you found out, you know, found your way to where you are today. Yeah, that was tough for sure. I think it was a great, exciting time when that all came together with staying with Chevy and staying with the Wendell Scott Foundation and the steward family and the support I was getting there.

And we had kind of somewhat of a plan, you know, and obviously with things shipped into Toyota that changed everything. And definitely was like, dang, kind of looking out, you know, looking for what's next. And on top of that, not having a good year of like I had one or two good shots to run well. And I wrecked myself racing tie at Kansas. and then I broke in the lead at Nashville and those moments were like, dang, were those my only opportunities? And I'm glad I had that rookie season, though,

to kind of learn, albeit with the door is closing and everything, like learn the to-dos and the not-to-dos when you're racing full-time and really the things that you probably learn racing, you know, in the cars tour or as a youth and getting to have those experiences there. It wasn't easy, but I'm glad I had those experiences of, like not making days worse when you're running 12th or 17th and not smoking the right side just because you're trying to get one spot, right? I learned a lot that year.

And really the back part of that year, I put up together some solid runs and felt like I was in a decent spot to be ready for what was next. And I didn't really know. I didn't know what was next until literally the February or the week before Daytona of 2012. Really? Yeah, it was kind of a lot of different options.

and we were trying for a long time just to get something done and get the sponsorship put together and it didn't come together really until coming back with Spire who I ran my first truck races for and you know Jeff Dickerson helping out

and reaching out to the folks at HMS and Mr. HMS Linda and you know with those of the automotive group and they wanted to support me I did that race for them at Phoenix I got that opportunity in the Xfinity car and that Xfinity experience not only at Hendrick

but with Alpha Prime really just prep me for that shot at Spire and winning stuff. Yeah. Talk about driving for Alpha Prime. They're like a little engine that could. You know, they work really hard with very little. But every now and then, you'll see them put a car in the race and it be very competitive. Yeah. Talk about your, you've had experience in several different shops now at this level, at the truck. You've been in, you've been with different teams with different cultures and different funding and so forth. And talk about how that's kind of open. your eyes to to how hard some of these teams are working.

Yeah, it's definitely just, you mentioned the culture, right, to go from to Tommy's where it's, you know, it's not just the good old boys, but it's like, you said, everybody's trying, trying hard, and Frank Kerr's over there doing a great job, and I had him and Dan Stillman, Michael Brannan. I work with Dan. Yeah, and Mike Hillman, Sr., and a lot of cool guys over there. And to go from there to aspire truck team or to hear to HMS, it's just crazy that everybody does their way, their things a different way to get to the same point. Maybe not the same

result, obviously, but whether it's, you know, the cycle of parts and communication from driver to engineer to crew chief and the preparation that's expected and what's not expected. And it's just, it's just different. But yeah, like my time at Alpha Prime was great because I had moments to learn, whether it was wrecking at Pocono with Alex LeBay or qualifying 15th at Dover or, you know, running the top 10 at Vegas and Martinsville in that car. And I think that that time really learned or helped me learn a lot, right? With the longer races and learning how to run around the full-time guys, the playoff guys. But in that stuff, right, I ran around like Jeremy Clements and Jebbb and Alex LeBay, Josh Williams, Ryan Ellis,

like those guys in that mid-tier and the Xfinity stuff that, I mean, I learned so much from running around those guys of just taking care of your stuff. And if it's going to run 25th to run there or maybe get a couple more, not destroy the thing. but if you can, you know, run 15th, run 12th or a little bit better, then, you know, make the most of it. That's absolutely right. You know, when we started our program here years ago, it was more important for me, actually, to get a guy in the car that could just get me the car, get the car to the finish of the race than to try to go out there and wreck it trying for more. Because it's going to be worse, trying for more and then destroying the thing. Yeah, and it, those damage bills rack up. I mean, you're not budgeting for crashing a car every week. And when you got a guy in there, that's knocking the nose off of it or backing it in the fence every other race the team can't keep cars on the shop floor in one piece and you're spending a ton of money um so like i was always

look you know we hired brad kazlowski not because i thought brad could win races for us because brad was going to make sure he didn't tear the car up and we just needed about a year of that you know to kind of get our feet underneath us and so i mean that's what i think it's good for drivers that or listen to this, young guys that are at that regional level, man, it's, if when you get these opportunities to run like you did in the Alpha Prime car or to drive a truck one off, like finishing the race is probably the priority. For sure. It, you know, it's awesome if you can flash, you know, some speed, but just being smart enough

to be able to bring it back in one piece is quite an accomplishment. I always tell guys, I say run all the laps. And that's what that means. like today's just about running all the laps. If you can come back to me at the end of the race and you've ran all the laps, you've gotten all the experience you can get and you're better now than you were

at the beginning of the day. And if you're out there, I don't care how fast you were if you wrecked the thing on lap 30. It's not going to matter. I'm very disappointing. So it's pretty good. How do you believe you've got that

plugged into your brain? Where did that really kind of come from so quickly? Honestly, it came from when I was at Rev. And when I ran the late model stuff, you had just the one car, the one chassis. And for us that were in that program, and, you know, Nick can attest with this, LeVar, Chase Cabry, you know, drivers that have come through over the years. Like you had your one late model and your one chassis. And if, you know, you blew up the motor or not to clip off of it or something like you were, you know,

not fully responsible, but, you know, that would affect what races you did in your schedule. And so whether it was like replacing fenders or, you know, rear in housing and stuff like that, Like you were involved in that process, and you really learned to respect the equipment, right? Because it wasn't like something new, something that the previous driver had and the previous driver before had. And you had to make sure that, you know, you weren't taking yourself out of, you know, getting opportunities to race because you only had, you know, 10 or, I guess, 15 or 20 weekly shows you could do in a season. And, you know, if you destroyed your stuff, you know, in March or April, you'd be sitting for a couple weeks, whether it was sending the motor up to Harrington's to get done or having to go get the chance. Cassie redone or something like that. I learned it at that level.

So that's something that you don't really get on irasing on the downside of it because although the race can be over and you'll accumulate the incident points, right? You're not, you know, you can just reset the car and it's fine, right? And that's something that you really, you know, is really valuable to learn in real life. And I learned when I was racing those cars. Yeah. You got a job to race with Spire. You've been there over the last couple of years.

You've been able to get yourself to Victory Lane and become a winner. at the truck level. Take me back to Vegas. I want to hear about the emotion of what, you know, what you're thinking as you're starting to, you know, getting near the end of that race. I know what I would, I know where my mind would go when it comes down to 10, 8, 7.

I'm literally on the radio to my spotter telling me, count me down every lap. And if he missed the lap, I'd be like, whoa, what lap was that? You know, because I'm so nervous. Yeah. I'm literally nervous about, like, is the caution going to come out? Is, you know, so, or is, is, what's that noise? What was that?

I heard that, that's not, that's new. You know, what was going on in your mind as you're driving to your first win? Yeah, so I guess if I could step back a month or so, literally get the contract and get everything done, like a week and a half before Daytona, so it's a race there. And it wasn't even a full-time guaranteed deal. It was just for, you know, a first portion of the year and we'll figure out the sponsorship and try to put together the rest of the year. And fortunately, Mr. H., Ms. Linda, and everybody at the Mottov Motor Group after Daytona and Atlanta were like, hey, let's just, they'll, you know, support me for the whole season.

And Daytona, I mean, I caused the big one my first time, you know, racing for the win. And I'm like, dang, like, I just did not do a good job, send one of my friends flipping, you know, in the field. And, like, it just was like a weird spot of, like, hey, I. about this opportunity. Arrow tight. Yeah, yeah. Was that when it pushed off a two?

Yeah, it just took off and, you know, I'd wiped out everybody and I'd do that. I'm like, dang, that really sucked. I hate that that went down. And at the same time, you've got to just kind of shake it off and go to the next thing. So go to Vegas, and that's really the first straight-up race of the year in a sense, right, with how Daytona and Atlanta goes. So I go and we qualify well, and it was fun racing with KB and Kai or KB and Ty and Corey and Nick and all that. and I learned a lot in those first two stages that I had been missing really that first year. And so after the green flag cycle and everything, we go and get sorted out in stage three,

and I'm like, I'm wondering where everybody is. And Joey Campbell was my spot at that time, and he said that the 98 sped, and that the 11 and 17 had ran long. And so I'm like, wow, I have a serious gap with, I guess, 20 or 30 or so laps to go. And at that point, I'm just like, okay, I just got to wrap the line and run. fine. And it's funny you say that hearing things that you haven't heard all race. And with like 10 or 15 to go, I'm like, I feel like the right front. It's like, I'm getting a little tighter than I've been all day. And a little tighter and a little tighter as I'm getting in the traffic. And I'm like, okay, I got to take care of it. Just I know I've got a little bit of a gap to anchor them. And I can go harder when I

need to, but I've got some space right now where I can just keep a little more life in the tire. And honestly, I mean, I wasn't really nervous. I just was expecting a caution more than anything. Yeah. Maybe that's not the best headspace to be in, but I'm like, okay, I guess got to be prepared for like, should a yellow come out, right? Like, okay, well, what do I need for the truck? How do I need to hit pit road and restarts and all that stuff? And but we get the wide and I'm like, all right, cool.

Like, it's okay. No yellow coming out. This is over. Yeah, just run the middle, run it easy through the middle of one and two and bring into the line and just more relief there than anything. Yeah. Do you, so that, that was the overriding emotion? relief is relief just relief like you do so much and for young drivers right you have a bad race and it feels

like it's the end of your career and um you just go so long without having tangible success or that gratification so to have that moment um it just was a relief really for my parents like to send me to north carolina to go to college and still chase the racing dream and the coaches i've had over the years the people that are financially backing me but also believing in me my crew chief chat i'd been with my rookie year and been through the struggle there so to get him a win was great and really just just the team. I just wanted it for them just because I felt like a lot of people had put that on my shoulders and put me in that situation and so to not mess it up and put it all together was just relief more than anything. I had a similar feeling when I started getting success.

I ran 159 late model races. I only ran. I only won three of those. in a four-year span, I didn't think I was doing enough to get there, but I did start to get some opportunities in Xfinity series, and I, too, I wanted to race for a living.

You know, I wanted to do, I wanted to be able to do this for the large majority of my adult life, right? That's like what I think we all just kind of want that and whatever, of course we wanted to be successful, but we're not really, we don't really have like an expectation of success.

It's just I want to be good enough to keep the job. And this is why we're doing it. Yeah. And like when you finally go to Victor Lane, that is the relief, I think, of I'm going to be, I think I'm going to be able to do this. I think this is actually going to, this is actually working.

For sure. I think it was a little bit of that. I definitely didn't want to, and this is what I did, didn't do right. I definitely shrugged it off too much and just try to be like, okay like just got to go in and put together a whole season and then you know i don't win again what would you tell yourself uh i would say uh i would say in the last 10 laps what would you say just to

cherish it cherish it more right and i think that i did that this year like when i had that opportunity again i definitely cherish it more um just because i just was so like okay let's just get to the next thing and trying to like i don't know why i'm getting all this press and stuff like it's just a truck race but understanding you know the impact that it had in a lot of good ways but um yeah i definitely agree with you there like you you do it for so long and you have so many periods without that tangible success of finishing first and whether it's the equipment you're in or the situation that you don't get that for whatever reason and when you get those moments it's uh you know you got to cherish them for sure do you feel like that now after you're you've got a couple wins now in in the truck

series you're going to get opportunities next year racing in the Xfinity series with us you're you're you know at junior motorsports you're you have a there is a there is a plan, there's some security and comfort in that. How are you still developing as a driver? What are the things I think that, you know, I don't know if you can even answer this question, but what are the things that you think you're still working on? I think a lot. I think the mental aspect is a big, big part of it, right? It's not like, I mean, I'm going to go and find a, you know, a second of speed necessarily. I mean, maybe, but really just the mental aspect of not taking yourself out of the game and not overthinking.

I'm a chronic overthinking. Like what? I think for me, like I do a lot of studying. Like I watch a lot of stuff. I sim race a lot. I pretty much live at the D.I.L. Those are positives. Yeah, positives, right?

But it's also easy to just like go down a rapid hole of like, okay, like I didn't do this right. Or, you know, this will lead to this outcome or just not feeling like you mentioned, not feeling like I've done enough, right? And keeping the confidence in myself, I think it's the biggest thing. Yeah. Because I know I've still got room to grow. as a driver and, you know, in a lot of different areas, whether it's the road racing or certain aspects of short tracks or whatever, and I know that I have strengths too. But really just the

confidence is what I'm trying to really grow where I've kind of ebbed and flow this year, whether, you know, it would be mistakes that I made or what I feel like the truck needed more, or just having a guy win 10 races and it's like, dang, like making this all look silly, right? But it's like a, you know, keeping the confidence up and keeping the process is the same. Yeah. Do you feel like that you're, do you feel like you're behind because of how late you got started? I did for a long time.

You don't feel like that now? I don't feel like that now. I don't think I'll ever, I'll never catch up. Well, I mean, look, so. The, myself and a lot of other guys, lots of guys. I mean, this,

this racing at five years old at Millbridge is a new thing. Like, that's, like a decades old thing. That wasn't going on when I was, I started racing at 16. You know, I got a legend's car at 15 and a half and then a street stock for a year and then four years of late models

and then I went and won an Xfinity Series championship. But literally our body of work is very similar, honestly. You know, and I would say that you could pick a lot of drivers from that era that probably had very similar, you know, careers. Didn't race a lot until they got a, you know, I grew up my entire life. thinking, well, I can't race until I get a driver's license because I can't have a racing license

without a driver's license. Like, they go hand in hand. That's how we thought. I mean, I thought that, too. I didn't get my license. So I was 18. There weren't bandoleros and, I mean, the Legends car thing was brand new. I race, when I race Legends, I'll race the third Legends ever built. The third do you still have it? Yeah. I still have the chassis. I found it. And I can, I can, I can, I know it's the real deal. It's crazy story. That's cool. That's cool. But, like, I, like, there wasn't, there wasn't this sort of ability, you could race go-carts for sure, but my dad thought it was a waste of time racing a little go-car round dirt track. He couldn't be there, and I did it for a little bit when I was 12 and ended up flipping out of it more than I finished on my wheels. But I think that while you were

absolutely probably hindered by the inexperience in the first four handful of years, right, racing a car for the very first time, of course, the guy that started at six or seven or eight years old is going to have a better opportunity to go to the racetrack and be more successful. But I think it sort of is a wash at this point, right? It evens out. You've got enough laps. Once you're in the truck series, you've got as much experience as the next guy beside you in that vehicle.

And you seem to have, you know, seem to have learned the basics of how to get around a corner, right? Yeah. So, you know, I don't know that I don't know that I would worry about feeling like, you know, your, you know, you got a late start or anything like that, not that you do. But I think that's another, a good point you mentioned. I think something that I struggle with, and I know a lot of young drivers may do this, is like, you mentioned, like, our competitors and peers and stuff. Like, it's a big comparison game in terms of, like, you know, opportunities or accolades and stuff like that. So it takes a lot of strength to keep focused on yourself.

What do you mean? Well, in terms of whether it's like, okay, this person get this opportunity or did this thing or got this accolade and I'm here and I didn't get this accolade, right? But also you've got to stay focused of like, this is my journey, this is the cards I was dealt with. This is what I have to play with and bargain with and keeping the confidence and doing the things that I know will make me better. and not saying like, you know, this guy got to this point in his career earlier or quicker and I'm not doing a good enough job because we're all trying to get to the same point. It's just trying to keep that focus on yourself.

Yeah, the unique thing too about motorsports versus like maybe sticking ball sports is that we're dealing with a race car that has to do everything we needed to do. And, you know, while, and I've always felt like that that was sort of the, you know, there are, Listen, I knew when I was in a race that there might be a guy that was more skilled, but I always believed I was the best race car driver in the field. You have to, right? You have to believe that. You have to go.

You know that there's a guy that's won more races than you. There's a guy that's ran more laps at this racetrack than you. There's guys there with more experience and more knowledge and know exactly what's coming more than you do that day. But if you don't think that you're the best, and you've already lost. You've already lost. Yeah. even though it's unrealistic, you have to believe, like, I'm the best one here. I'm the best one here. With everything going my way, I will beat all these guys in this race. I wonder, like, if I called Chad

to ask him. Chad Walter? Yeah. If I called your, you worked with him in the truck series for how many years now, three or four? Two, I've got Bono this year, but I had, but Chad still still with Corey LaJoy this year. I know Bono well too. Yeah. If I called either one of those guys, you're going to drive our car next year in the Xfinity series. If I called either one of those guys, what would they tell me is most important about how to get you comfortable and get you up to speed? Yeah, that's a good question.

I think I communicate a lot. You know, I'm a late-night texture of like, hey, I think about something, whether it's that we worked at the simulator or, hey, I did this wrong last year, or I think we could do this better. Like, I'm definitely that guy. So I definitely like to communicate a lot.

And besides that, I don't know, I prepare a lot. I take a lot of notes and review a lot of things. And I have that passion and joy for racing as a whole. Like I always have an old race plane on a TV at home or on my iPad or something like that. So I just have that enthusiasm for it. So I'm always going to be plugged in, whether I'm traveling a lot with family and stuff. I'm still going to be, you know, watching something on my phone. So I'm definitely as prepared as I can be.

So I think it's going to be a matter of keeping my head straight and not letting me over things. I would, what about technical details around the vehicle itself? So, when I raced, I was very, I loved bar preload. Like, that's one of my favorite things. I didn't love, I didn't like touching the track bar. Like, once we unload the car. That's crazy. I'm the same way.

Like, I'd like to leave the track bar alone. Once we unload, it is where it is. If you move it up or down, I'm going to question that change the rest of the weekend. So I kind of, and I get mixed results from. and feelings around the track bar. But bar preload, I absolutely can feel that right front, right? And how much that front bar is wrapping. And that's something I always kind of can help me get looser, turn better.

So, like, what are some of the things, I think, I guess, that you prefer or good favorable changes that you might to go to? I think for me, like, I'm super sensitive to, like, you know, rear spring stuff. So whether it's spring split or throwing a rubber in the left rear or pulling one out of the right rear or stuff like that. Or you mentioned track bar stuff. like with the trucks and everything, like the rake and all that. Like I feel like I'm sensitive to that. And it's a balance because through the Chevrolet program with Josh Wise and Scott Speed, it's like you're not really trying to like learn, okay, the components of the cars or the trucks, right?

It's more like your inputs, right? And feeling the tire and all that stuff. And it's a balance because with the team, right, they're going to say, okay, was this change better? Or how did this change, you know, make you feel looser or tighter or something like that? So it's a balance of knowing what's doing what, but also like not, you know, sacking yourself out of it. So I think for me, like I mentioned, the spring stuff. And I know a little bit of the front end side of things, but I try not to, I try to stay within my understanding, whether it's moving nose weight or stuff like that. Or, you know, in the late models, right, with the little coilovers and stuff like that.

Just, just little stuff that I've learned over the years. You know, it's funny. Some guys, you can take five cup driver. and sit them at this table and some of them are going to know tons about the mechanics of the car could actually go work on it a couple of them going to be winning championship drivers and not do anything and not know an a frame from a spindle um and so i mean it's just and that's not new like i think even back in in the 80s and 90s there were guys like that but the majority of people kind of had had had some experience working on cars but um the um you know you've said you've mentioned in

interviews that you saw therapy at times yeah i still yeah i still do therapy yeah yeah so i'm i agree with you i um there's times in my my life where it's like i it's kind of like i ever i would compare it a bit to like taking your car in for a tune-up um i've worked with uh uh uh uh life coaches, whatever you want to call them, sports psychologists or just regular, you know, therapist helping you with everyday life. What are some of those, what are some of the benefits you think you get from that? Yeah, I think, yeah, I've been with my therapist for, I mean, really since my second year of college. And it was something that was recommended to me that through Brandon Thompson, that's at NASCAR and also, you know, family friends and stuff like

that. And for the longest, I did not want to do, I didn't want to do it because I didn't This is like, I don't want to get into it or talk to people about my issues or whatever. Like, there's worse things going on than if I'm feeling down or something like that. But I think it's important to have a person or a vessel to, you know, talk through what's going on, you know, in your mind, right? Because that's what makes your money at the end of the day, right? It's, you know, the headspace you're in and what you're intaking, whether it's what you have going on in the back of your mind or what you're intake consuming from online or from your environment and everything. it's super important, especially, like I mentioned, for young drivers, like coming up to the ranks, you have so much information at your disposal, but so many opinions thrown at you, and

people that have influence over your career and not just your career, but your personal life. And I think it's super important and something that's helped me graduate school, but also, I mean, get to where I'm at now. It's something that's super important and a valuable part of what I do. I mean, not only, you know, speak to them, you know, once a month maybe, but, you know, good check-ins are great. Just even if things are going good, it's good to just touch base. And then also when things aren't going good, it's important to keep the consistency. Yeah.

I think it's very valuable for guys that are in sports. Yeah. Because, man, it is. And again, like it kind of goes back to the original conversation we were having when you sat down. The environment today is just really complex. There's a lot going on. A lot of conversations happening around you and publicly online and so forth. And being able to manage that and understand.

hear from somebody like how to block the noise out what's what to focus on i i get some really valuable information in those conversations around just managing expectations how to be how to be a better friend how to be a better partner but also like in a professional sense um how how to be a better teammate right in in this building with my with sister with with employees and And, you know, trying to figure all that stuff out on your own sometimes, you're jugging a lot of things, right? Yeah, you can't do it all by yourself. No.

So, yeah, I was, that was actually encouraged. I've been in and out of therapy since I was a kid, but it was encouraged by Rick and his team to have a sports psychologist while we were racing at Rick Hendrick. And they had a guy that kind of would talk to all of us. I worked with the same person that was working with Jimmy for a while. and man it was really fascinating. It's not always comfortable. It's not.

But, you know, and it is, it's kind of one of the things, too, is like, you get out what you put in. The more transparent you want to be, the more benefit you'll get from it. But I found that interesting because it's not something that I would expect, expected you to be vocal about. Yeah. Hey, everybody, it's Dale Jr. here. You've probably heard me talk about my Chevrolet dealership in Tallahassee, Florida. part of the Hendrick Automotive Group. We've got a huge selection of new and used vehicles,

and we specialize in commercial trucks. In fact, we're proud to be the number one seller of crane trucks in the country. Whether you're upgrading your daily driver or growing your fleet, our expert team is here to help you find exactly what you need. But just don't take my word for it. Here's TJ with a recent customer review. Jose Aguilar made my car buying experience like none other. Very helpful, informative.

I'm so happy on my two new vehicles. vehicles. He made my purchases so simple and easy. That's the experience we aim to deliver every day. We've got hundreds of trucks in stock offer free delivery anywhere in the continental U.S., and we're part of the top-rated dealer group in the country for online reputation. Check out our full lineup at Dell Jr. Chevy.com Chevrolet. Together, let's drive. You're in the middle of a battle for the championship in the truck series. You're in a really good spot

coming out of Talladega. You know, I think that I don't know what you're, you know, I don't know how, where your headspace is, what is the best way for you? So when I was your age, I didn't know how to race for a championship.

I didn't know, you know, versus the 35-year-old me that was like, oh, I know what I think I need to do now. You're basically maybe in your very first, battle for a championship of any kind. I'm sure Josh Wise and those guys are helping you. For sure.

Sort of getting the right headspace and understand your daily goals and objective for the weekend. And you've done a really good job of these last couple of races to put yourself in a very, very good spot. You're going into the last couple of races. Like where's your confidence in terms of the tracks? Yeah. how you ran there in the past? I think I've really looked at the whole postseason as just a great opportunity.

I think all this dialogue about the format has gone on for the last forever, right? And I mean, I grew up with the chase and then all I've known. All I've known. And then, you know, obviously with the playoffs and the rounds and stuff, like last year, I could have been like,

oh, I could have been fine with the 10 race chaser full season. And this year I'm like, I definitely benefited from the format. And I think with that being, it really allowed some great opportunities for myself of just like, hey, you got these races, you know, all the things you've accumulated over the year, you just got to put it all together and see what you got. So it's been a great opportunity is the way I've really looked at this

whole playoffs. And it's been a great space that I've been in because I haven't had any expectations on myself. Like I've, sure, I want to make the final four at Phoenix and, you know, race with the 11 and whoever else makes it. But at the same time, it's just a great, opportunity. It's the way I've been really looking at it and whatever happens happens. So that's, that's where I've kind of been at. Like it's, you know, you see a lot of individuals are like, oh, you know, this guy should have it already and stuff like that. And, you know, not to say that that's wrong, right? But, you know, me and the other six playoff teams that are still in it have grinded and sacrificed just as hard to, you know, have this opportunity. So it's, it's great, great chance.

I was, one of the, something that I like to share is, you know, that's, you know, something that I like to share is, you know, I wasn't always great at this. Like when I would find myself in any kind of a situation that where I was, there was high stakes, I had a lot of problems with anxiety and nerves and so forth. And like a lot of people, I think normally would get overwhelmed with the weight of the situation. And the week leading up to it would maybe, you know,

kind of spiral a little bit into this, you know, this area of feeling a lot of pressure and man, what if, what if, what if, what if this, what if that, what if this, what might go wrong, right? That was kind of my, my mental approach, which was not the right way to do it. That's why the, so Harvick mentioned, I'm going to bring up Kevin Harvey again, he mentions your circle of life. I think that's why that, that is so important because, I mean, if you're, you know, stressed about, you know, whatever the point situation is and stuff, and then you go home and, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you've got a, you know, whatever personally going on or you're not doing things,

you know, the way you need to be doing them, then that just makes things worse. So that's why, you know, I got great friends, a great, great girlfriend, and great just support system of people that allow me to grind, but also say that it's not the end of the world, right? This is not, you know, there's not the existential, you know, weight of things on it, right? Yeah, because without knowing that, you would absolutely easily make that. You go crazy. the most important thing that's ever going to happen to you, right? That next lap, the next race, the next, the opportunity, right?

That's where the mistakes happen anyway. So Chase Elliott, I'd never really heard this before, and it's stuck with me ever since. Most coolest thing ever heard of a guy that was in the situation that you're pretty much in as well. Chase gets to the Final Four in Phoenix, and he would go on to win the championship that weekend. but this is his first final four and his first real shot at this kind of pressure and be in this situation. And they were interviewing him at the racetrack. It was Friday.

He's standing up against the pit wall having a conversation with somebody on camera. And they said, man, talk about the pressure. You're Chase Elliott, Billy, his son. Here we are. Phoenix. You're at this whole season to get here and all this culmination to this moment. And, you know, God, it must be tons of pressure. pressure. And he was like, it's an incredible opportunity. I dreamed of being in this position

and my dream has come true. Yeah. And I could not like, I was like, you know, that's like, if you can figure out how to get into that headspace, which sounds like what you're doing, like that is the place to be. Like, and that's why I have so much admiration for Chase to have found his way into that space in that moment. At such a young age. But, most people will allow the moment to overwhelm them. They can still succeed through it, but most people

will feel the pressure. He saw opportunity and only opportunity in front of him. I will never forget that, and I thought that was the most profound thing. And then he went and manifested it. It was insane. And if it didn't go well, he was so glad to even just have the chance, right? Just to have the

opportunity that he had. I couldn't, I, I was amazed by that. I have been ever since. And we meet, you know, as a, as the broadcaster for NBC over the last several years, we met with all the final four guys of the Xfinity series and the Cups series, and we talked to them days and days and days leading up to Phoenix, and you can read them like a book. I mean, there's a lot of guys that are trying to talk themselves into that headspace, right?

And they can't quite get there. They all kind of, they all, kind of, just like, feel like that pressure. But I think that this is a perfect opportunity for you to really truly just see nothing but opportunity. Yeah. And now how your story and your route to where you are today to be sitting here with a real chance at this is incredible.

Yeah. I think you really put it very, very beautifully. I think for me, I've really tried to just enjoy the journey more than anything, right? Because my goal is to be in one of those, right? And that's why I started. That's what I saw growing up. And I was like, I want to be like you. going to be like Jimmy and Bubba and who I read about in books, right? And I think for me,

it's just, I know this is like, it's not the fate of the world is not relying upon the outcome of the next two races, right? And it's just a great chance for another great step in the journey of, you know, chasing my ultimate dream. So it's not pressure because there's a lot worse things in the world to feel pressure over, right? There's, I could go on that length about different things that there could be pressure or, you know, weight of, right? And this is not really one of those things, right? Like, I've had the weight and pressure of things my entire driving career, my short driving career, but not only that, my entire life. And I mean, this is not even, it's a great chance, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Like, there's worst things in the world to be, you know,

really nervous about, not to, you know, diminish, you know, the feelings of others that they may or may not have but it's just a great chance like chase said i am i'm just excited for the opportunity and um to see if i've done enough homework and i'm prepared enough and if i'm not i'll go and try again next year yeah i know you'll do the work i hesitate to uh to jump out ahead of this because i don't want you not doing anything but focusing on what you're supposed to do the next two weeks two more weeks or a week and a half pretty we have an awesome opportunity to work together next year that i'm really excited about um you're going to come drive our cars and you're going to get in a car

that's had a ton of success this year with Zillich basically taking over the driving duties for the majority of the season in that car working with Marty. Have you allowed yourself to think about it at all? I mean, not really. I think it's exciting

and it's not really a character to chase. It's just a new scenario that I've had. This is the earliest I've ever had like a, you know, a contract plan or a plan of what's going on, right? And it's kind of a new feeling because you always have somewhat of that uncertainty of like, I got to go and perform or get everything done, right, so I have food on the table and I can go and pay for myself, right, pay the mortgage and pay the bills and everything. And now to have that somewhat set in stone is just, I mean, even more of just a great opportunity to go and do my best. And if there's

things I need to do better, sure. But I think right now, like you said, the focus is on, you know, the next two races. When can we start talking about next year? Right after Phoenix. Probably right after Phoenix. Next year will be fun, though. Yeah, but next year will be fun, though, I think, to be over here. And I've been out of this building the last couple of years, whether it's meeting upstairs or getting no different cruise over the years. And to go and get to drive here will be a lot of fun. And filling my season at Jordan's to run for points, it's going to be great. So, Yeah, but my main focus right now, obviously, is Phoenix or Martinsville to get to Phoenix. But I guess in the spare time, I'm definitely keeping an extra eye on the Xfinity races.

And it's like, nice. Yeah, I get to go drive that next year. Well, we're looking forward to it, man. It's been a lot of fun. I've been kind of watching you ever since. One of the things that I like about you is you'll text, you'll communicate, which is great. and like you're willing you're eager to reach out for information ask questions you're a sponge i've loved that about you ever since i've gotten to know you um t j majors tells me you'll just

randomly show up on the spotter stand when you're not we have nothing more important to do you're you're everywhere trying to find advantages and knowledge um you've you knew coming into this deal that you really had to accelerate to learn curve and you've done that. I've really enjoyed getting to know you. I can't wait until next year. I want to wish you the best of luck over the next couple of weeks for sure. Everybody's going to be watching, hoping to see you have success in Martinsville and be able to go to race for that championship in Phoenix. But man, next year we're going to have a good time. We're going to get to know you even better. So thank you, Dale. Yeah. I'm super excited and thanks for having me on.

Roger Rutherith on the Dale Jr. Download. Hey everybody you want the latest Dale Jr. download apparel. Visit shop.dirtymomomedia.com. We're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a t-shirt. Again, check it out at shop.dirtymodea.com. All right, so that was a great conversation with Rajah Krooth

and looking forward to seeing how this season goes for him and what happens at Martinsville and should he make it to Phoenix, how that goes as well. But just impressed by the, you know, the amount of information and knowledge and experience he's had to, you know, fast forward through over the last couple of years to become, you know, pretty solid little racer in the truck series. And honestly, man, I'm, you know, I'm excited about what we're going to do next year.

He's getting in a race car where I feel like I know what this car is capable of. and, you know, he's just going to have to, you know, get in there and really just not have to worry about the car as much or worry about whether it's right or wrong. He can trust everything around him and get in there and just adapt to this car and how to drive it. And I think it'll be a fun year. So, you know, I expect that to go really well. And I'm glad that we're going to get to do that.

I've known him for a while. And we've kind of been texting back and forth a little bit here and there for the last several years, but I'm glad we're going to get to work together. has been in this building. We've had some conversations around trying to figure out how to work together. So, um, just fun to learn his journey. I really didn't know everything about him, obviously, and fun to learn how, you know, he's approached this whole thing. Um, and so yeah, hope you enjoyed it. It's time for the white flag. All right, so the white flag is here. And live on YouTube and Twitter, um, was the, uh, the tear down, uh, um, uh, um, um, was the tear down. Uh,

Jordan and Jeff covering everything that happened at Talladega. And if you missed it, you can go over to DirtyMod Media's YouTube page. I imagine you can find a copy of it there, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And while you're there, subscribe and then click the notifications so that you don't miss anything. And you see all the work we're doing here at DirtyMo Media. Yesterday, me and T.J. talked about, you know, the races ourselves and gave you everything

that all of our reaction to dirty air and more. We talked about a lot of things that you probably didn't expect us to talk about on the Tuesday show. But on Monday, Doorbubber Clear was released with Jimmy Spencer's The Guest and Action's Determinal with Denny Hamlin. He goes over the whole battle at the end with his driver above Wallace and his teammate, Chase Briscoe, and how all that played out, how his day went at Talladega, which was a bit unusual, honestly. Obviously, another episode of Herman Strader and Speed Street goes out today. Tomorrow, bless your heart, and then the Dirty 30 on Friday. Thanks for tuning in.

We'll see you tomorrow. Y'all take it easy. Check out Dirtymo Media on Instagram, Facebook, X, and TikTok.