The Dale Jr. Download - Running on Tradition: Jon Wood’s Fight to Keep the Wood Brothers Alive

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

In this week’s episode of Business of Motorsports, Kelley Earnhardt Miller sits down with Jon Wood, President and Co-Owner of Wood Brothers Racing, for an insightful conversation. Jon reflects on his journey within the family business, discussing the pressures he’s faced, the challenges he’s overcome, and the lessons learned along the way. Explore the inner workings of one of NASCAR’s most iconic teams as Jon shares the complexities of managing day-to-day operations and navigating the unique dynamics of a family-run organization. From balancing sibling and parent-child relationships to forging partnerships with industry leaders like Ford and Penske, Jon highlights how these connections have been pivotal to the Wood Brothers’ long-standing success. Jon adds an engaging twist by shifting the focus to Kelley, asking for her perspective on managing JR Motorsports alongside Dale Jr., and she shares her insights into the family dynamics of leading the organization. This episode delivers a thoughtful look at the intersection of business, family, and motorsports—don’t miss it! Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Welcome to the business of motorsports. It is yours truly, Kelly Earnhardt Miller. You know, one thing that I really hope that this series does is open up people's horizons. I got in a lot of trouble and I got challenged. I don't know why you're coming here. You don't trust us. I said, no, it's not I don't trust you.

I'm running a business. A lot of people kind of feel like, well, we're, We're never getting back to where we were. Why do we ever get to where we were? There's so much more involved in decision. I mean, I want to rip my head off every day. I say yes to me. Oh, you say yes on the phone.

Well, you made me say. All right, welcome to Business of Motorsports here in the Dirty Moast studio. I'm super excited today for my guest, John Wood, who is the president of the Wood Brothers. and Lord, I mean, 75 years next year for the Wood Brothers. Obviously, we've both grown up in the sport. Just really excited to have you on today. Today, how's it going? Well, it could be better.

Like I talked a minute ago, I'm in Pigeon Forge. And I'd rather be in 100 other places than Pigeon Forge. And during the holidays. During the holidays. Well, we're going to talk about balance and family and work, which is what you're doing. So keep that in mind. You've got a good family balance going on there with the family and hanging out with the kids. Yeah.

They're all here. You'll hear them. They'll come forming in in a minute, I'm sure. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, let's jump in so that you can get back to that. So one of the reasons that I thought that you would be a great guest for business. of motorsports today is this legacy of family, the fact that your generation, the third generation

of the woods, have kind of taken the reins for leadership. And so I want to get into that. But before we do that, I want you to talk about, you know, growing up in the sport, you were a racer yourself, a little bit about that, give a little background to kind of your history. So I made the mistake of believing the dream. that I think a lot of other young racers aspire to do, but I took it to, I took the lazy route. When I was going through late elementary school and high school, I never thought that I would need anything other than to know how to be a race car driver.

And, you know, the whole time my mom and dad are like, man, you need to learn how to play golf, you need to work on your grades, and you got to have a backup plan. thought, well, like, I don't need that. Like, this racing thing will work. And then you fast forward eight years later, ten years later, and you wake up one day in November, and it's not working anymore. And it's really, really, really hard to transition from spending your whole life, just knowing that you're going to be a successful race car driver to now what do I do?

And if I had the opportunity to do it over again, I wouldn't have been so lazy and so sorry and done hard and tried because I had the ability in high school. There's no question about work harder. Yeah. Just wouldn't have been so sorry. And that's a mistake I made. And when I call it a mistake, it's great to to have these aspirations and hopes and dreams that you're going to make it. But listen to your mom and dad when they say have a backup plan because it's, this is a very, very volatile, as you know, super volatile business. And when you're in it and things are good, it's awesome. It's great. But when you're not in it and more people have failed than continue

to succeed. That's right. A finite amount of positions available, right? I've heard that all my life, you know, and there's, there's now with the three top tier series, obviously, you know, a hundred-ish or so teams there to, uh, or options to be able to drive, you know, but, um, yeah, that is tough. But I love what you said about listening to your parents because I, you know, that's, that's a lesson. That's a lesson in business or anything in life. You think about it. In the NFL, there's what, 30 something teams and within each team, there's probably, 50 or I don't even know how many. Exactly. Yeah. So do the math there. That's 1,500 players on the low end. And that's just the NFL. You think about NASCAR, there's three top series. There are 30,

give or take, drivers in each. That's 90 drivers in the world that make it. That's a small pool of people. And then expanding it even further, if there's 10, 10 crew guys, 10 road guys on each team, that's 900 that make up still a small pool it's it's such a small group of people you so it is so how did you make that transition you're you realize that the driving part's not going to work out what was your exposure to business to the team that that led you into what you're doing today and the growth that you've had since you've been involved in the the actual race team I would say that I'm still trying to figure this out and I'm learning as I go. Everybody that's in a family business that doesn't run the family business that are on the lower end of the totem pole like my sister and I would be,

you always think that you could do it better and you have all these ideas and you you constantly talk to other family members about how our dad's doing it wrong and how lindon. doing it wrong. They don't go with them. And then, you know, the longer you're in these positions and you're exposed to their way of running the business, the more you see, okay, I'm probably seeing this wrong. They're probably, they're probably doing something right. They've been here since, this is, this is the crazy thing to think about. 1950 is five years after World War II ended. And they, they have been in the same people have owned this business and been showing up at a NASCAR race since five years after World War II ended. So they've got to be doing something right. And that's the part I think

that I've struggled with the most is accepting their way of doing things as like a really good baseline. And then what would I do to improve on that instead of how would I come in and just throw everything away and start over? And that's, I think, understanding that vantage point led me to have more responsibility and them trust me more. Yeah. A couple years ago, you know, again, I was very rebellious in my attitude and my take on things. And as I began to say, okay, they're right, I started getting more responsibility. And fast forward to now, I mean, it was abrupt.

I went from being just a nothing to run in the company. overnight, literally overnight. And that was, that was an eye-opener. I was going to ask you how you balance them wanting to do it the way they've always done it and you coming in with creative new ideas. But you just explained the fact that you really have to respect and honor what has kept them here for all these years. What, what is the day-to-day like, you know, with, with, with your dad and family and your aunt, you know, there's three of them, right? Eddie, Lynn, and Kim. Yeah.

And then your cousin also works in the sport, too, so there's a lot of you there. I mean, literally, what is it like to like, what's a day look like when you're, are you all together in meetings? How do you run things by each other? How does it work? A lot of it is through group texts on an out-home. I mean, I'm really backwards, but you've got, so Kim, Kim lives and stays a lot in Moorsville. Lan is in Huntersville most of the time.

He, he kind of goes to our, our Moorsville shop more than the rest. My dad's in Virginia. We're all over the place. Jordan's all of her kids. I've got the same issues with mine. So it's really hard to get us all in one place at one time. But you don't really need that, like what we're doing right now. COVID opened the doors and made it okay to do things remotely.

And while some things can't be replaced in person and in the office, a lot of what we do and a lot of the decisions that we make and brainstorming that goes on, we can do with a phone call. It's not that hard. And obviously, we go to the races. Like, that doesn't. I was about saying. Yeah. I mean, we, the same way, right? Dealing with Dale and And even Mr. Hendrick, he's not here, you know, day to day. A lot of, I get what you're saying in terms of just how you ask questions, make decisions, group text. You wouldn't, I don't think we would have said years ago, I will be, you know, we're managing this business remotely. But like you said, COVID's made that possible for us.

Tell me some things that you believe has led to the longevity of the Wood brothers. The part that I have the most difficulty with, and I think it's the single most important aspect of the way our business works, our particular race team, is the relationships that have been formed and are ongoing that my dad and my uncle have with everybody at Ford, with everybody in the industry and NASCAR. It's in Penske, that's like crazy how they just, it's like they're best friends with all. all these people. I'm more of a backhouse person, like doing things behind the scenes. I don't like the, it's not, well, it's not that I don't like the elbow rubbing or whatever you want to call it. I'm just not good at it. Like I'm, it's just not my way of, it's not my personality. And that's, that's tough because I see the way that we've made it this long and the successes that we've had and every bit of that is because of being good people, but the relationship that, and the ongoing

relationships that they have with, with all these key people. My dad will get text messages from Jim Farley daily, and it's like they're BFF. Of course, and Mr. Ford are, they go to movies together during speed weeks. They go and watch movies at a movie theater, literally still today. every speed weeks in Daytona. And who else can really say that, that they're friends with, you know, these calibers of people and just, they're just like normal people to them.

I don't know, it just blows my mind, but I'm terrible at that, and that scares me because I see how important it is and how I struggle with it. What are you doing to try to overcome that? I mean, it's a great, yeah, it's a good... I don't know. It's...

it's tough because I don't have. Well, you recognize it, so that's good, right? Yeah, and my wife will give me a hard time about it too. But I don't have the things in common with a 75-year-old former Ford executive Ford family member. I just don't, it's harder for me to relate to guys like that. But my dad does because they grew up in the same era. They have a lot in common.

and I don't. So I guess I'm just waiting. Yeah, it's just a total generational shift, right? Yeah, I'm with you. I'm not, I always say it too. I'm not the one that can sell ice to the Eskimos. Like, I'm not that person either. You know, I like the, it's hard for me to be kind of the front line and the gripping and grinning.

And, you know, I don't go to all the races because it's just not my style. Like the banquet. I saw you. I saw you at the bank. Yeah. How hard. And you guys won the, one way of your title. So, like, you're up front and, and like, it's about you. But, like, those things, you, you could, I don't know how you feel about it.

Are they, are those environments hard for you to go to and, and go from person to person and either like being there or want to be good at pretending like you want to be there? Yeah. It's hard because there is too many people there. and you can't, like, you can't spend the time that you may want to spend the time with someone. And that's one of the things I've always said about going to the racetrack is that you do have to be present. And depending on the role, you know, it's more so or not. But you do have to be present.

You do have to be visible. You do have to be seen. But I don't think business has to take place at the racetrack. You know, like there's not enough time that everybody's going in a lot of different directions. You've got a specific agenda there. So I feel the same way about the banquet. You know, yeah, it's great to see people, but it's hard to kind of move around. And, I mean, there was so many people there.

It was so crowded. It was stiff and, like, scrunched in there like this. I mean, it's... And then getting all dressed up and gussed up and all the challenges of parking and all that good stuff. Like, all of those things start entering my mind. I'm like, oh, my goodness, this is overwhelming. But, like you said, sitting down there in front, on the couch, being the champions, watching everything go.

it was quite worth it when it was all said and done. So what about some traditions that Glenn and Leonard have instilled that you feel like are still? Tell me, you're operating out of Stewart, Virginia and Mooresville? Yeah. Yeah. So like the business operations would be out of Virginia. Like that's what offices are. Got it.

So your shop, the daily day-to-day shop stuff's down here in Moorsville. Yeah, and Moorsville. Yeah. the building of the race cars and all that crap happens in Moresville. But like, bills are paid and we have to have meetings and stuff. That happens in Stewart. And it's just been that way forever. So what are some of the traditions kind of that kind of are still alive that you see between, you know, those locations?

I mean, the fact that you're still doing business in Stewart, Virginia is one of them. That's the home base hometown. I don't know that we have traditions. I know that if you asked my dad and Lynn what they're most proud of or if you just strike up a conversation, the conversation will veer toward the museum in Stewart and nothing about the race shop.

Because that's the stuff that they're the most proud of. That's where we have the 71 Mercury and all the cars that Leonard, the tribute cars that Leonard has built, they're like restored cars of, of cars that we've had over the years, except for the Mercury, the Pearson Mercury, that's the real one.

But like all that stuff is up there. And if you spend an hour just talking, somehow they're going to weave around and be talking about the museum and not current day racing. Even though they live for that. And people will ask, like, do they have plans of retiring? NASCAR isn't a business you retire.

You die for. from it. You're in it. Or you get run out, one or the other. It's not something that you just say, well, I'm tired. I'm going to go start fishing. You look at Mr. Penske. He's, what, like 80s? Like his late 80s. And Richard Childress, same thing. You don't age out of this business. You just, it's almost like it's your hobby. It's your passion. And you're going to be there until you can't. Exactly. Yeah. You said it bad. You either die or get ran out. I like it.

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she's the CMO of the Wood brothers tell me about some family dynamic stuff going on because obviously working with my brother I get asked that all the time you know what's it like working with your brother what's it like working with your sister, your cousins, your family. How do you balance those relationships? Does it ever get in the way? No. So my grandpa did an extraordinarily good job of shaping his three kids to appreciate each other, to compliment each other's weaknesses and strengths, but to treat each of themselves equally. that if you asked if you asked them no now my dad was the one that ran things for years and Lynn probably does a little bit more so now but they would tell you that each of the other

three are or each of the other two are totally equal on on the same footing and that's probably the one thing that's that's led to us continuing to survive family business is fail more than they don't. And it's because one guy feels like he's getting screwed out of money or equity or whatever it is. And we're not like that. I'm the exact same as Jordan and Kevin. Those three are the same and we're just on different levels. But continuing to get along, not fight, throw out the jealousy.

That's the secret to making this work. And it's tough at times. You know, you can't help but get aggravated. You can't help but feel like you're doing more. You're pulling more weight than somebody else. Or you've spent more hours working on apparel than somebody else are working on our 75th anniversary. And I'll admit, I don't, I've really done a lot in that. Jordan, that's her deal.

But if you average it all out over the course of a year, we all probably do about the same. And we all have equal say in some of the bigger decisions. When I said that we have that group text, that's how a lot of things are decided is, you know, Lynn or whoever will say, what do you guys think about this? And we all have an opinion. Yeah, that's a lot of mutual respect, right? Worked, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So you mentioned earlier, you know, just kind of the lessons and what it's taken you to get to where you are in terms of realizing, you know, how the business works and keeping, keeping. understanding why the Wood Brothers has been so successful all these years.

I want to flip to, I remember a few years ago, everybody's like, you got to go to the Wood Brothers social media. You got to go to the Wood Brothers social media. And that's something that you read. And, you know, I know that you're very into being authentic and to who you are. You've talked a lot about that today, right? And those weaknesses. and you're learning to work on that.

That's a challenge. Jeff Dickerson, the owner of Spire. He gave me a hard time a couple weeks ago because he said that he had told his social team, his social team team. It's me and Jordan, like for us. There's no such thing as a team. But he said he sold.

he told his social team, you guys got to look at the Woodbrothers' Twitter account. This is how things need to be done. And they go and look at it and they're like, okay, it's just some pictures and that's it. And he's like, you made me look stupid. You know, I'm sitting here playing you up and then I send my guys over and they're like, well, there's nothing here. You've calmed down. I have.

And the reason is, like I looked back to where I was five years ago. And it was almost like I had no confidence. You know, if I cussed on there or if I said something controversial, you know, my dad might be mad, but we're not going to lose a sponsor because they can just blame me. They can just say, well, dumb. He's just a kid. Yeah. He's stupid. He wasn't paying it. But now you're the president. You can't be stupid. Right. And it's not, it's just it's just different. I got in trouble a few times. They gave me free reign to do whatever I wanted, and I think they realized that it worked more than it didn't. And fortunately, there never was an incident, like something bad happening,

but there could have been. And also now, you know, I look back at where we've been in the past, I don't know, even four years, even before Harrison, it's really hard to be. To be. To, to, to be fun when you're struggling at the racetrack. It's easy when you're performing. Our season with Blaney, or two seasons with Blaney, Paul Menard, we were always competitive. And in the last half of our tenure, there's been some struggles. And it's harder to do that stuff and not make it look like you're distracted. when those things are going on and you're just talking.

Yeah, are you taking it serious, right? Right, yeah. Like, are you taking this sport serious if you're not being serious on social media, right? To your partners, to the industry, to other people, to the peers, to everybody that's sitting out there criticizing and judging on social media, which happens a lot. Oh, it's, yeah, it's crazy. But I tell myself, you know, if we get back where we should be, And this isn't something I've said now or a year ago or two years ago. It's just an ongoing, things will get better tomorrow and I'll get back into it and having fun with it again.

I don't know if I tried, I don't know that I would have that ability again because in the back of my mind, I don't want to screw up and lose this opportunity that I've got now because it's a lot more important to me to do right by running the company than it is to do right by gaining social media following. I know that the balance, but I take it to be extreme. Jordan talked about the pressure that she feels on your generation of taking over the Wood Brothers. Do you feel that pressure? How do you look at that? I don't necessarily feel that it's pressure. I feel like it's a responsibility. Yeah.

If we fail, it's going to look like and probably be our fault. I don't want, I want this business to continue. And a lot of people will ask, like, do you plan on your kids running the company one day? You can't, you can't plan that. Let's rewind back to my very first comment. You can't plan that far out, even if you're Rick Hendrick, even if you're Joe Gibbs, you can't have a 10 or 15 year plan. Because look what happened to Stuart Haas. I've said that about this.

This sport doesn't allow you that. It goes year to year. It does not allow. There's not enough pre-planning. It has never worked that way. Ever, ever, ever. Ever. It's great when you're in it, but when you're not in it, it's no fun.

And I think of how my driving tenure went and that, those feelings. And I don't want to relive that with the race team side. So I want it to succeed. It has to succeed. but long term, you can't, I'm not saying that I don't think we'll make it. I'm just saying, let's plan for something else. And then if we get to that point in 10 years where you have an opportunity to work in this company, okay, let's do it. Yeah.

So you mentioned, you know, the past few years, you haven't had the success that you wanted to have as a team. But you did get the 100th Wood Brothers win. How did that change things for you? What was that like? the immense amount of elation out there in the middle of the grass there. It's crazy because it was so unexpected. Like, we haven't been in a position. We were, your levels of performance are kind of like,

they're just levels. You go from, let's hope we make the race. We've been there. We were in a position 10 years ago. Let's just hope we make the race to, well, let's hope we can, Not running the 30s. Let's try to, let's be a top 15 team. Let's be a top 10 team.

You don't just magically go from running mid-20s to contending for a win. So this was never even the remotest thought in the back of my mind that this might happen. And we go to Daytona and in like halfway, Harrison's running 10th. 20 to go, he's running 5th. There's a caution with however how many laps it was to go. he lines up on the front row, but you're just waiting for that thing to happen that always happens, where he gets screwed somehow. And even coming off of turn four, he's got a comfortable lead. And it never dawned on me just like, I'm watching that car just like this. And it's like, well, it's going to catch on fire.

The asphalt's going to go away. Like, it's just, this can't be happening. And even after he'd won the race, it still just didn't process. It was just like, what? Like, did this just really happen? And everybody's going crazy. And it took me a minute to really, almost like just, I was just confused, because it just didn't seem real. And then as time went on and everybody made their way to the front stretch, it started to make more sense. But I could not pick a single driver in that field that I would be happier for, even if it wasn't for us. If Harrison, drove for somebody else, the struggles that that kid has had and the way he has endured it and his level of maturity and continuing, just continuing to show up and have a positive

attitude, like, I'm so glad it was him that got it. Looking back, at the time, I wasn't sure. I didn't, I didn't know if this was the cornerstone that we really needed, like if it just fit right. but after we went to the media center and after I saw what it meant to him what it meant to his fiance what it meant to Kim and Jeff and Jeff isn't somebody that sits in the front row

and makes a lot of noise he was in the very very back of the room kind of like this just real but I know what it meant to him also and for them to have that experience I was more happy for him I think than us and I truly and right now same thing

I hope that he feels like that win gave him an opportunity to reinvent himself and to come back as a successful driver in NASCAR. You guys have a partnership with Penske, and you've talked about some of your different drivers through the years. You're going to start the 2025 season with Josh Barry, who I'm very familiar with as an extended driver, Junior Motorsports. Fantastic. You know, how difficult is it to make those changes?

What's that process like? And what are you looking forward to for 25? It's a little tougher for us because we're more of in a development position within Ford, mostly within Ford, but also a little bit within Team Penske, too. We kind of help shape some of their up-and-coming guys. And our driver position has been not, a revolving door but we've had we've had a few in recent years look at Denny Hamlin he's been in the same car for 20 years or something crazy had like five drivers or more in that same amount of time

and it's tough to really as soon as you get comfortable and as soon as you're you're on a good place with these guys something changes and there's a switch and then there's a new one I got to a point with Harrison where I was comfortable. I've given this example before, but like I think back to mid, midways through this last season, Lynn woke up with something wrong with his knee. And we don't have a motorhome or anything like that. So we park where the crew guys park.

But Lynn could have walked that day. Couldn't walk well. And I texted Harrison and said, hey, can you go see if you can find a pass for us to park in the DO lot? Because Lynn can't walk well. He's like, yeah, no problem. So he drops what he's doing, goes to the NASCAR trailer, and I don't know who all he asked, but did his part to try to find a pass for us when he didn't have to do that.

And I think back, how many other drivers, even how many other drivers have we had that I would feel comfortable even asking that in the first place, but they would have bothered to go and do it. Yeah. And that's another hat tip to Harrison, but it's kind of where you kind of, you get to these point, it takes a while to get to this point with these guys. and it feels like as soon as we get there, we've got a new one. And I look forward to Josh. I still don't know him super well, but he's been a lot more of just a normal guy

than a lot of the other drivers that we've hired that come in. A lot of the others come in as a little bit bigger personalities than even what I feel like I'm looking up to him, even though that's what I think about. But with Josh, it's just like, hey man, like tell me about, I don't know something. And he's just, well, you know all about it. You know, but he just, he doesn't have that intimidating feel to him or something.

I don't know. He's super down to earth. I'm looking forward to. I just was thinking, and I don't know what your, I'd love to hear your perspective in general because I say the same thing about us in the Xenity series. You know, you get a Chase Elliott in here, or we got a William Byron, and we get to have them for a year, maybe two years. And really that's the trajectory of most Xfinity drivers, right? I mean, they don't want to stay in the series anymore than two years.

They want to go cup racing. What's your perspective about, you know, the ages that these drivers are coming in, the pressure or the expectation for them to perform right away and all of those kinds of things? I'm just curious of your perspective, not necessarily related to your team, but just in general. I think it probably has a net negative. And you asked me, and so I'm going to give me my perspective. I think it's harder for the average NASCAR fan to relate to the drivers in 2024 than it was in 2015 and 2010, 2005. They were closer in age to the average fan, the drivers, I mean.

had a similar background, they might have grown up in construction or, I know, any number of these. These guys now, and it's not all of them, but it's a lot of them, they race because they can, not because it's a passion or not because it's either make it as a race car driver or go back to being dirt poor. That type of driver doesn't exist anymore. Josh is the closest thing I know of to that in the up and coming category because he's not the guy that has a super rich dad that funded whatever he wanted until he got tired of it. He's just not that. And that's why I think Josh is going to have a great following more so than even he does now. But Junior is one of those guys I'm thinking about.

Tony Stewart, there's a long list of drivers that your average race car or an average NASCAR fan just could relate to. They pulled for them because they felt like they were looking at themselves. And that just doesn't, that's not what we got now. Yes, definitely not as prevalent. I think that way, like on the sponsorship side, it's hard for even, you know, partners and sponsors to, you know, how do you, how do you influence a consumer at 18 years of age, you know, it's very difficult, you know, like what you need experience, you need, yeah, you just, I mean, you just need worldly life experience, right, to, to be able to influence and have an effect on people. So I hear you there. Josh is going to be great. I mean,

you know, spent years in our late model and has definitely come up through the ranks. So I'm excited, excited to see him continue forward after the SHR stuff went on. What's the hardest part of being in your role as president of Wood Brothers? The relationship stuff. Yeah. Which that's the single most important part. I think back to some super missed opportunities. My dad and Lynn were invited by, I don't know if they own it or they just run it,

but it's the Miami Grand Prix. Oh, yeah, I don't know. They got invited. They used to own a race team, in fact, and Miami Dolphins, they got some connection to the Dolphins. But they owned, it doesn't matter.

Anyway, they were invited to the F1 race in the chairman suite or whatever this title is, and I thought of every opportunity to not go, then to go. I did, the thought of being,

in there, stuck there for three days around people I didn't know, around people that I can't relate to because they're just in a different class. I just, I wasn't going to go out no matter what. And there's been a lot of those different things that have happened. And I look back, why did I do that? I should have just sucked it up and went. Those are the things I've got to overcome. I don't know if it's, it's some kind of anxiety. I don't know what. But everybody has different levels of anxiety and some of the social anxiety. Some of it is, I don't know, just all sorts. But mine is, I just don't want to do these things where it's, I'm forced to carry on a conversation with somebody that I just don't know and that might think I'm a redneck.

I don't know. But I got to get over that crap. Yeah, kind of like, you know, do you deserve? a seat at the table it sounds like you know like are you worthy of that you know to kind of sit at the seat of the table of somebody that's you know on the miami dolphins and runs the miami grand prix i get it i i feel it i i am so with you do you do you realize though after you've done something like that do you usually feel good and okay about it and how it went i i typically do i think and okay yeah i generally do too i have the same anxiety i have anxiety about doing this show

And, you know. That don't bother me. Like going on DBC, like that, that was, I was at home with that crap. Well, DBC is your kind of show. Doorroom for clear. I mean, like, we're able to, we're able to talk. And there's dialogue. And you wanted to talk to me.

It wasn't like, at least I think. I did. Yes. Like you were forced into doing it. And, but like, if it was something that, there's another great example. Let's say this was some other podcast where the host wasn't familiar with NASCAR and they're asking how fast as their NASCAR go. I'm going to like wig out. And it's not because of the level of questions.

It's because I know they deep down just don't care what I'm there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, after I came out of that roundtable with Jordan, I was like, man, I need to pay attention more and want to know more. because I see Jordan at Millbridge and racing and all, but, you know, I just didn't, don't know you guys. And I was like, man, there is just some, it was fascinating because I just saw a lot of similarities, you know, from the family aspect and coming in and carrying on a legacy that you guys are doing. So you probably feel of pressure too, right?

Like, I mean, I know that I know you're, I know you're the one is supposed to be asking the questions, but like what's it like for you with with being. Dale Jr.'s sister, but being in a position where you're the boss? Like, how do you feel about it? Yeah, it's different and interesting because obviously, you know, I need, well, he'll say he needs me too, but, you know, I need him more than he needs me, so to speak, right? Because I get to run his businesses, and he is what makes and breaks Junior Motorsports and our partnerships and our relationships and all the different things that he does. So, but, you know, I'm on the tail end of this.

I feel like you and Jordan are just getting started, you know, in your, in your career of business as it relates to moving forward with your team. So I feel like, I hope I'm retiring like in, I don't know, five or ten years or something. We'll see. What kind of changes, like talk a little bit about NASCAR and this, because your team very much embodies. this talk about the responsibility to protect and take care of our long-term core NASCAR racing fans, but yet reach a new generation of fans so that we can continue to be doing this well into the future. You know, what does NASCAR, are they doing a good job at that? What do they need to be doing?

Kind of your take on that. So they're, the guys they've got, I think, I want to think, are a lot smarter than I am about this stuff. If you look at it on a, if you look at it from my perspective, which is just a, just a total idiot, let's take politics. The dumbest thing, somebody in a position of a driver or whatever could do is to come out and say, vote for Kamala or vote for Donald Trump. Picking aside, you're not going to grow your base. you're going to cut some. You're never going to, if you start out with 100 and you make 50 mad, you're down to 50. You can have those feelings, but broadcasting that, you're only going to cut your numbers instead of growing those numbers.

And if you taking that mindset and looking at it and what you asked about, how do you grow the fan base but take care of the ones you've already got, making decisions that alienate the existing fan base is not the thing to do because you're not going to replace the ones you lose with new ones you got to take care of the old ones first like they in other words you have to make decisions that the current fan base like but that also the newer ones can either live with or be happy about two to come in and grow instead of lose some and hope you replace those with more that that's just i know I know that's way over simplifying it, but I don't think you can.

And I don't think NASCAR's doing that either. I know that you've got a lot of a very vocal group of people on Facebook, for instance, that will say, well, I'm never watching again. After what they did this weekend, I'm done. And then the next weekend, they're in the same spot saying, I don't. They're always watching. But I don't think NASCAR has done any single one thing that's been so bad that they've lost people. I think what's hurt more than anything is losing stars.

I think losing your Dale juniors, your Tony Stewart's, and Jeff Gordon's, those things happened in a very, very short time span, and that hurt. Losing those stars and not really having a good pool of guys to replace them, that hurt more than I think any decision that NASCAR's made from a competition perspective. It's just easy to blame them. Yeah. I know. I think about that too, like as you were saying that, I always.

remind myself that generation after generation have experience change, right? So whether it was when the television was invented to now we're streaming, you know, or whether it was when the car was invented or whatever it is. I mean, you know, I'm sure that the generations before us went, oh, televisions, all these are going to ruin those kids, you know, they're not going to be outside anymore. And we say the same thing today about, you know, iPads and video games and all that stuff. And it's just a part of life. But, you know, at some point, you do have to introduce, like, you know, coming into NASCAR next year in the 25 season, we're going to have streaming partners and, you know, regular network partners, right, for that balance. But I hear the same thing. I'm not watching

anything on Amazon. I'm not watching anything on this, you know. And hopefully they'll be there. We'll see. But it's got, you got to introduce it because you'll get left behind eventually. Yeah, you can't just continue to say, let's like look at where NASCAR would be if they kept their their original business model of everything happens at the racetrack it's all about the fan that's in the stands if they if they continued that for 1950 or 1960 or whenever it was that that started and they they just completely ignored television we wouldn't be having this conversation right now yeah absolutely you have to adapt and you have to adjust your business model as as technology changes and people consume

this sport in different ways and they did even 10 years ago, five years ago. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, and, and that's, and, uh, and that's that. What has been, uh, one of the most rewarding parts of your journey with the wood brothers, um, and your family? There's a lot of experiences that are just so cliche, you know, I talk about a win-in, or I talk about, um, a fan day that we had, or the Hall of Fame induction for grandpa and my great-uncle Leonard, all those things, yeah, they're wonderful, but the fact that we're able to continue to have these experiences together, that's the part that I appreciate the most, is we've somehow managed to stay grounded enough and respectful of each other enough

that we haven't had disputes within our business, which is also our family. that have created rifts that we couldn't overcome. Nothing that we've, no challenge that we've had, we weren't able to figure out a way around. We faced some really, really, really, really troubling times. And sitting down, talking about it, being rational, and not giving up.

And those relationships that I keep going back to have made it to where we're still able to show up to the 2025 Daytona, 500 and hopefully the 2035. Well, I'm looking forward to the 2025 Daytona 500 with you and Josh Berry for sure. We'll be watching. We keep an eye on all of these previous junior motorsports drivers and just want to see them be successful. So I'll be watching the 21 car next year for sure.

All right. We're going to leave with the question that I ask all guests. Best advice you've been given in the industry. And if you know who gave it to you, if you remember who gave it to you. Okay, so this is another, not the one you're going to remember tomorrow, but it stuck with me. We're at an owner's meeting. This was one of the, I can't remember if it was strictly just teams or if NASCAR was involved as well. But Cal Wells in one of the conversations, he's raised his hand and he's telling whoever

it was. So like everybody here knows if you're not growing, you're dying. And he was talking about growing as like their race team or as an industry. But that one phrase, and he said it like this is just such common knowledge. Everybody knows if you're not growing, you're dying. And I thought about that for a minute. And it's like, okay, every single success that we've had either was because of growth, or it led to some kind of growth that made it to where we got to keep going. And how do I apply that mindset? How do I apply that philosophy to my new position and grow our business? I don't want to change it.

I don't want to change the fundamentals of what Wood Brothers Racing is and has become and will always be. I don't want to change any of that. I want to think of ways to grow. And so of all the weird, crazy things that people have said, and it's surprising, that one stuck with me. And I just try to remember that whenever I'm asked a question or thinking of something to do within our team. How do I approach this? What should we do here? We need to think about it with an emphasis on growing.

Yeah. Yeah, a great way to look at it. Are we growing it? Are we going to kill it, right? So I love that. Well, I see you growing into the 2025 season. I'm super excited that you took time from your family vacation here in Pigeon Forge as much as you don't want to be there. It is a cool place.

Come on now. You're like, the kids have left me alone. Everybody's left me alone. Maybe this is better. What are they going to make you do next? Look at some Christmas lights or something? I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, the latest one is the Philadelphia-McCoy thing. Yeah, we did that one last year, so now we'll have to beat it in the ground and do it again for the next three years. Dollywood, I'm sure, at some point, the Titanic exhibit's pretty neat. There's so much to do here, but if you pick the wrong week and there's a bunch of people, it's miserable. It's a hard place to get around for sure, no matter what. Well, enjoy the time. Thank you so much for being with me today on Business and Motorsports. for all your listeners out there.

We'll hit us up again next week. We'll be here. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.