The Dale Jr. Download - The Art of Blocking: Checkers or Wreckers

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

On this week's DJD Reloaded, Carla Gebhart is joined by T.J. Majors, Brad Keselowski's spotter and co-host of DBC, to talk all about the art of blocking. We call up Michael McDowell to get his thoughts on how the final lap at Talladega played out and what, if anything, he could have done differently to hang on and secure the win. Plus, Jamie McMurray calls in and shares his perspective on McDowell's move and which drivers are the best drafting-track blockers in NASCAR today. Check out Dirty Mo Media on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DirtyMoMedia  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, we know where the finish line is on the track, but where is the line that you're willing to cross for a win? And what moves are you pulling out to ensure that you do win? We saw a block or two decide things at Talladega over the weekend. And although, yes, there is an art to blocking. We also know that it just doesn't always work out, right? So why? Why risk it? I have a feeling that driver of the 34 Michael McDowell probably has a pretty good answer for us on that topic today. so he's going to call in a little bit later. Plus, I've got the spotter on the receiving end of that block. T.J. Majors, you listen to him on door bumper clear.

He's here and going to weigh in as well in studio in the Bojangles studio. And Jamie McMurray, former driver now Fox analyst. You think he knows a thing or two about blocking? We're about to find out on DJD Reloaded. The following is a production of Dirtymo Media. Welcome into another episode of DJD Reloaded. I mean, it always comes down to a bad block, but it's going to end up nothing 99% of the time. The second block is a ticket to get turned, right?

You're asking for it. It's like I was willing to die. Welcome back inside to the Bojangles studio for another episode of DJD Reloaded. I'm Carla Gebhardt, and for the first time ever, at least on this show, we have T.J. Majors joining us. Of course, Spotter for Brad Kislauski. You also hear him on door bumper clear every week. And TJ, we're talking about blocking right now. And we've seen this a lot in the history of NASCAR and in the Cup series, especially

in plate races as well. But the most recent one, obviously happening in Talladega over the weekend and something that you kind of got a front row seat to with Brad being on the other end of that block. What were you thinking during that last lap? I felt like we were in really good spot. I think we had it timed out perfectly. We had our move. You know, Brad knew what he was doing.

Michael was so good at he's really good at he knows how to work the draft too and Brad and Michael together could push whenever they wanted to to get clear and make the run that we feel like we needed to make to make the winning move but you know I felt like we were in a really good spot I knew Michael would be tough to get around but I was glad Michael was up there because you know whenever we went down there like hey can Michael you know can he be pushed and Michael said yeah everything you got And I'm like, perfect. So it was a really good scenario for us. I felt like we were in probably the best spot to win.

But it's plate racing. Did you see the second block coming? Did you know it was coming? I mean, yeah, I actually had time on the second block to be like, he's not going to go all the way to the bottom. He's going to go all the way to the bottom. And, you know, but I understand the situation he's in and we'll talk about it. But, you know, I saw it comment and you're just kind of like at that point,

I know Brad's just reacting and trying to make the move and doing everything he can to break the plan of the bumper. And we had Noah behind us. So I feel like we were, again, that was the move to get side by asylum. And we had the momentum. So I think we had the 10 with us, whatever we went. And honestly, I thought, you know, at that point, I was more worried about the 10 slipping around us if we had got outside Michael or inside of Michael. and that was going to be, that's where my mind was. But when Brad had to check up a little bit for Michael, it kind of hurt her momentum and

allowed Tyler to get around. Yeah. So everybody is, you know, currently talking about blocking. Even Dale Jr. on the Dell Jr. download earlier this week. But he has a little bit of follow-up information for us on Michael McDowell. The two actually met in a car pickup line at school. So here's what Dale had to say about that. So I saw Michael at the pickup line at school.

He said, man, tell me honestly, what you think? What do you think I should do? You know, me, I'm only going to throw one block. If that block doesn't work, you got me. I'm going to throw one move, and if that move works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. The other car is going to win the race. The second block is a ticket to get turned, right?

You're asking for it. And he said, man, I had to. He's like, I was willing to die. He's like, look at my positioning points. It's the only way I'm going to get in the playoffs. I've got to do everything I can. That was my moment. don't know what you talk about at the school pickup line, but I don't think it's as cool as that

conversation probably, at least for a lot of parents that are listening out there. But just really interesting, I think, that Michael McDowell was willing to risk it all, right, in that moment. And we kind of mentioned, you know, where he's at in the standings right now. Is that everything that kind of comes into play into a moment like that for Michael? Yeah, for sure. I think so. One quick thing, though, usually when I would run into Dale Jr. the pickup line or the drop-off line of school. He puts his kids in my car and leaves. I don't know how that doesn't seem fair. We'll have to talk to him about that. But no, I, yeah, I mean, the position that Michael's in, you know, that's, there's very few chances that, you know,

that come. It's hard to win these races. And when you're in position like that and where you're at, if he's 18th, top 20 in points, kind of on the cusp, he probably takes, he probably throws one block and sees where he, you know, where he ends up. But. you know, obviously they feel like it's going to be hard to make up the ground to get in a point's position to make the playoffs. So he feels, you know, he's got to make a move. He's got to do something kind of wild and crazy to try to make it work. If it does work, you know, he's the hero. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's what you're there for. I mean, you're there to try to do everything you can to win the race. And his situation promotes that type of a move,

you know, like that's where he, and, you know, more credit to him. for being willing to do whatever it takes to make that work, too. I mean, that's not, you know, it's racing's fun, but it's also, I mean, that's a tough situation to be in. Yeah, he's down in on points right now. Just for perspective, Brad Kislauski, 14th with 254 points right now, Michael McDowell 157 points. I know it's really a hypothetical situation, but do you think Brad, just with where you're at in the standings, would that have been kind of a forced situation if he were in that spot?

Yeah, I feel like we were probably in a finish scenario because we started off the year. Obviously got wrecked at the end of the 500 and then we went to Atlanta and had a DNF there too. So we were after the second race of the season, we were 36 in points or something. I mean, we were way down. So to be where we're at now, it's a great comeback. But, you know, we're not done yet. But I think when you're in that area, you can't afford big losses. You can't afford that 36 place finish.

You can't afford that mid-30s run. And that's what it was probably going to be if you get caught up in a wreck right there. So or, you know, high 20s. And like we just saved ourselves probably 20-something points, you know, a win would have been awesome. And I think we were in a good spot for it. But you got a, sometimes you got a big pitcher race. And I think we're in that, I think we are in that scenario.

Yeah, absolutely. Two second place finishes two weeks in the row. That's pretty good for RFK racing. But obviously we know that there is an art to blocking, right? I think you can think of some guys out there that are pretty good with that, especially at plate racing. But Denny Hamlin, who's also a good driver at plate races, he has a different perspective on this and says he doesn't necessarily like his chances when it comes to blocking. I mean, it always comes down to a bad block. I mean, it's just what we talk about every super speedway.

And it usually starts with whoever's leading the race. I just never have been successful being able to swerve eight lanes across the track. and this is easy for me to say after I blew second last week, you know, just take second, right? Or take whatever you can get. But I know the checker flags right there in front of you. It just seems like, though, that this isn't all or nothing move. Like, I know, but it's going to end in nothing 99% of the time. That's a pretty big percentage for it not to work out.

Do you agree with that? Yeah, I don't know if it's exactly 99, but it's really high. And then he's probably absolutely right about. the only the only really chance you have at winning a plate race when you're in like if you take the white flag leading the race the best chance you have is a wreck behind you and you're in position you're all you're out front because here lately we haven't even gotten back to the line before the wreck so being being the leader on the last lap's not necessarily a bad thing but if they haven't wrecked by the time you're coming into the tri-oval you're probably not in a good spot but um it's just different now that's than what it used to be as well. Like when we would block runs with Dale Jr., you know, we've had a lot of success. We could manipulate the air more. And there was more things going on that we could control.

Now, when two cars get clear behind you, you are a sitting duck. Like, you're a sitting duck big time. And it didn't used to be as big as that. There was more separation in the cars as well. You knew when you went to Daytona in the early 2000s, like some guys. just had super fast. And they were hard to get to. You had to really work together with somebody or two or three cars to get to that guy. And you can manipulate the air behind you with the bubble and stuff. Now you can't really do that. Like these guys can get runs with, you know, when they get

bumper to bumper, they take off. Just like when Brad got to Michael's bumper off of two, I knew when they connected, like they weren't even on the straightaway yet when it looked like they got together. And I'm like, oh, this is going to be a really good run. And here they go. And then we get three of us clear on the bottom. And I'm like, okay, this is even better because we got another forward behind us too so this is looking really good um but it's definitely uh definitely the yeah i mean it's the percentage is so high especially you can throw one block for sure like you can block away and but the second block is usually it's usually always just a fail and it's not only just a fail for you most time it gets the second and third place guy too and then the you know first and second

for sure and then the third or fourth place guy comes along here and it's like oh look at me i'm I won. Right. You know, and he didn't even merely, he didn't even make the move. He didn't really position himself that great. I mean, it looks like you did, but, I mean, if everything plays out how it should with no wreck, he's probably, I mean, Reddick came off turn four and fifth. And then he wins a race.

So, but definitely, it's a very blocking, this is a really high percentage of getting wrecked. Yeah, a lot of people didn't even think Redick was even in it, even when the wreck happened. he flew by so it was kind of a surprise there you mentioned del junior though especially before the next gen era what were some other some other names out there even guys that you've worked with in the past that that you were like man they were pretty good at blocking yeah even even whenever i went to work with joey um after del junior retired on me i went to work with joey um Joey was really good at manipulating stuff if i could tell joey um he was one of the guys or if you gave him the info he could process he could process the info that i was

was giving him two, three rows back, and he knew where the runs were going to come. And we've had some success, I think our first race, first race at Talladega in 2018, we won. And we manipulated the air some. I mean, we manipulated the runs a little bit, and it just got harder from there. I mean, it gets harder and harder nowadays. But, like, I don't know, like, Joey was super aggressive at his blocks. there were times though that we you know we threw a block we lost a talladega race to chase hellie at one time because it was it was us and there was about there was like six or seven

chevies in line behind us we threw a block on kurt we blocked kurt but chase drove by on the bottom of three and four and just won the race and we didn't nobody wrecked but like you can throw you can throw one block and either you get the guy or you don't and that's kind of it But, like, man, it's, it's, the art of blocking has got, um, more challenging, right? It's way more challenging. Yeah, and we've talked a lot about Michael McDowell from the weekend in Talladega. Now we're going to talk to the driver of the 34 for front row motorsports. He's coming up after this.

All right. So the topic of conversation on DJD Reloaded, it's blocking. No better person to talk about that than driver of the 34 Michael McDowell, who threw two blocks this weekend at Talladega. So let's welcome him in. Michael, I just kind of want you to take us through that last lap. Where were you mentally just thinking about this weekend at that race? Yeah, I don't know one of the best guy to talk to about blocking. I didn't do a very good job.

T.J. can probably attest to my poor job at the blocking there. I'm not. I'm still mad to you. I was kidding. Yeah, you know, I've gone back and I've watched it and studied it and looked at it from S&T and watched it from, you know, Brad's in car and watched it from my in car. And, you know, you have always an opportunity to learn a lot about what you did right and what you did wrong. But in a moment, I was doing everything I could to keep the six behind me.

And that mindset and that logic that I had going into it, I felt like was the right logic to have. But it just didn't work out. You know, I think that when you look at Brad's success at Talladega, you know, there's nobody better at executing that last lap. And having him behind you, you know, is definitely one of the toughest tasks that you could possibly have. And so I was trying to do everything I could to, you know, prevent what happened.

But at the same time, you know, we, when he drug back off of me going into turn three, I knew we were in trouble. And when he got clear in the 45, I knew we were in trouble. And so I had to make those moves to try to keep him behind. and it didn't work out. And, you know, I'm still in the spot where it's completely my fault. Take 100% responsibility for it. But after watching it and studying it, you know, there's definitely things that I would have done differently.

But you only get one shot at it in the moment. And, yeah, it didn't work out. So is it more of a calculated risk or is it instinctual when you're in the car, in the moment, and you're driving to the checkered flag? Yes, it's both. you know, I think that my sensation or what I felt in the car is when I moved up to block Brad's run to the top side, I feel like I was able to do that and I actually got a little momentum off of Brad. And when he pulled back down, I just figured that I still had a little bit of that positive momentum from getting the push from him. I just didn't really account for the 10 getting to Brad's bumper as soon as Brad got down and getting that big shove.

And, I mean, I'm sure TJ's watched it and played it back and looked at S&T, but if Noah doesn't get to Brad's bumper, I stay clear and pull down and have two successful blocks. And we probably have to keep battling it out as we get further down the track. but you know so instinctively I thought that it was the right move because I had the momentum but obviously it wasn't and I can see watching the replay from the TV how people are like oh my gosh you know it's top the bottom you don't do that but when I went to the top and got that momentum off of Brad I felt like I'd still be able to cover at bottom and just wasn't able to you mentioned all the data that you looked at and kind of analyzing everything is there anything just looking at it obviously you can't go back

but if you could, is there anything you would do different? Yeah, there's, there's, you know, three or four main things that I've highlighted that I would do different. I probably won't share them with you just because I feel like I'll be in position again. And I think I'll be in this position again with Brad and TJ. We've been there before. 2021, we've reversed the roles and Brad was leading off before and me pushing. And so I think everybody does. I think everybody goes back and studies what they could do differently and build that.

that roll decks and that playbook. And so, yeah, there's definitely things that if I was in that exact scenario that I would do differently. But the level of intensity that it takes to win these races at the end, I mean, you just, you go for what your gut tells you you need to do and you do it. Yeah, I 100% agree. I knew I was telling them earlier that I felt like we were in a really good spot because we were kind of controlling, we were controlling what we needed to control with the outside lane. you know, I know the message was delivered to you and, you know, can you can you be pushed? And you're like, everything that you have. And I'm like, this is going to be really good now. Okay. And, you know, knowing, you know, Brad knew where to get to you and you guys worked really good together when you had to.

And when when Brad got clear, I was like, okay, we're in a good spot. And when the 10 got clear into three, I was like, okay, now we're really good spot because we can, we're going to have double the momentum at that point. you know and and I like I agree with everything you said you know the the momentum to you know you saw Brad coming you through the block and it did when you travel across that much racetrack as well I think both the most you know we both lost a little bit of momentum too and it definitely slowed the run down to you and getting back to the bottom um with the 10 I mean we barely got back down in front of the 10 I mean it was close so I think yeah you know like I said I take forward responsibility because for sure it's my fault. But if I took my driver hat off and I put on an analyst hat,

you know, if Noah doesn't check up when Brad pulls down in front of him, Brad is the one that throws the bad block and it's fun and not us. And so the timing of that, like Noah picked up the break right as Brad was coming down to make sure that he didn't turn him. and if that doesn't happen, it's a whole different story, right? Oh, 100%. But Noah was also doing what he needed to do, right? And he was putting himself in position to hook bumpers, build that run,

and make a move coming to the line. So, you know, it just, like I said, it doesn't always work out perfectly. But there was multiple opportunities there for things to go differently, and they just didn't. Yeah, we could run it all again, and would have a completely different outcome, and everybody would do something completely different. It would not look anything like the same. So for blocking at Talladega, Michael, and blocking in the future, is this an instance, like,

just to give fans a little bit more perspective? Is it an instance where you feel it and you kind of feel the space between the cars, or you just kind of trust it in the moment? Well, I knew, you know, I knew that Brad was going to go middle and the exit of turn forward just because I was already covering the bottom, the momentum was on the bottom, and unwinding the wheel is going to give you that little extra bit. So I knew that that part was coming. So I didn't anticipate him to continue fading right. I figured that once we sort of covered the middle, you know, then, but once he made that second move to the right, which was textbook. I mean, it really was,

because his second move to the right was immediately followed by I'm turning left and going underneath them. And so I'm looking in the rear of your mirror or the camera and I'm just covering him, covering him, covering him, covering him. And when he already had pulled down, my delayed response because I'm cueing off of him is what created that big gap of having to come down so quickly.

So, yeah, I think that, you know, there's a lot of opinions out there, right? You know, you only get one block. You only get one move. You can't make multiple blocks and they don't work and they're high risk. And I get that. I probably would do it differently. But I felt like in the moment that I did have the positive momentum and that I would have been clear.

And I think had the 10 not picked Brad up, I would have been clear. And, you know, as far as the, you know, there's some theories out there too of like, oh, he's spun out on his own, that's not the case either. For sure, Brad and I had contact when I pulled down and that's what got me loose. And then obviously Brad had nothing, you know, that's not his fault. It's my fault. It's not his fault. But the out of controlness was coming from the contact, not from, you know, overcorrecting or turning too fast and the yellow line and all that. These cars, you know, you can make fairly aggressive moves and they're not out of control. So, Yeah, I think there's just a lot that happens. Everybody's trying to win the race.

You know, I think we can play it out a lot of different ways, but I'm just sad that we didn't get a Ford Mustang in Victory Lane. And I think that the responsibility, you know, falls on both of us on that. But we also are both trying to win for our individual teams. And we're both trying to make the playoffs. And Brad has, you know, not won at RFK, and that was important to him. him. He was going to do everything he could. And I know where we're at points wise and where we're what we need to do in the playoffs. And so I wasn't going to just make one move and say, ah, if I finish fourth, I finish fourth. I'm not wired like that. I don't think Brad's wired like

that. So you put two guys that are willing to die or willing to go for it and you're going to have entertainment. And I think we had entertainment. And unfortunately, we took a lot of cars with us. And like I said, the responsibility falls on me on that. Going back to the race, too, that last lap, did you feel it coming, the build up there? Did you feel that you were almost maybe a sitting duck? And would you have rather been in a different position than leading that race on the last lap? No, I wanted to lead. I wanted to be in the lead for a few reasons, just how these races have played out.

And then also, too, like, you know, it's 50-50, whether or not you're actually a race. back to the line, right? A lot of times you're racing off a two. And so I wanted to be leading off a two and know that if the caution did come out, that, you know, you would, you'd win the race. So there was kind of two things you were covering there. But to answer your question, I felt in control until the 19 got separated from the 45. I knew Brad was going to push and I knew I could take the push. And my hope was that I would have to stay side by side with the 45 all the way through. and if I wasn't side by side with the 45, I wanted Brad to be side by side with the 45

so that he couldn't drag back and he couldn't make that move. He had no lane to go to. And when the 19 got separated from the 45s, that's when I felt that pressure of, oh, no, this is not playing out how I hoped it would play out. And for Brad, it was the flip. Now, I'm not in his brain, but I've raised him long enough and know him well enough

of that's exactly how he wanted it to play out. He wanted us to get clear. He wanted to be clear and he wanted the car behind him to be clear. And so it was working out perfectly for him in that moment and not so well for me. And so I knew that once he drug back and I drug back, now we're creating an opportunity, right? And so, and I don't want you to hear that I'm blaming him because I would have done the same thing. I 100% am dragging back, building a gap and trying to build a run. So I don't want you to hear anything else other than that.

But if Brad stays locked on me or just stays pushing, we're going to win by five or six car lengths. And there's just no contesting it, right? But as soon as he had the opportunity, because he was clear, I knew, oh, no, this is going to be a battle now. And so the game plan is constantly evolving, right? like I said, there's things that I would do differently, but I can't control that outside lane. And when they got separated, that was really what changed how that race was going to end and how it was going to play out. I know this is a race-by-race type of question, but you mentioned the opinions out there on the second block. So in the future, if you're putting that position again, are you making the second block?

Well, that's so hard to say. am I doing whatever it takes to win the race? Yes. Am I more strategic on how I do it to put myself in a better situation to not get crashed? Yes. So, yeah, I mean, the reality is this. When I look at it, I want to know what I need to do to win the race and how I would do it differently to win the race, right? And to win the race, getting crashed is not.

how you win the race, right? But I also feel like in that particular moment, if I just block high and I stay up, I'm finishing third or fourth. And I'm not willing to do that voluntarily. Is that because of the win and end format? Does that encourage that? Oh, 100%.

Yeah. Yeah. You run second. It does nothing for you. It does nothing for me financially. It does nothing for me. end of the year. It does nothing from my race team. It's a great finish, but it's not the goal. The goal is to win a race and be in the playoffs, and there's so much value in that from a charter

standpoint, from an overall team standpoint, from how you approach the summer and what you gain from that. So the point system and the way that the playoff system works is you have to know where you're at and you have to know what you have to do. And right now we need to win. And so, but if Brad's all the way alongside me and he's to my quarter, I'm not going to just turn hard left and crash them. I mean, I'm not trying to give that impression. But with all the things that I had working with me as far as making that first block, having some positive momentum, it felt like I had to come down and cover that bottom. And if I don't, I finish third or fourth. And so the mindset doesn't change.

The approach and finesse and technique needs to change because I didn't do it successfully. All righty. Well, we appreciate your time, Michael, and appreciate your insight into the blog this past weekend. Thanks so much. All right. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks, man.

So do you agree with all that he kind of said or like at least to understand his point of view from all of it? Yeah, I mean, if he wins that race, that is, that change. changes the whole landscape of their season right now. Like, I mean, it changes everything about it. They are locked in, so they run their races differently from now. You know, there's not the pressure to win a race right now. There's not, they can work on things down the road. Like, it just opens up.

It opens up so much, like, we have to points race still. We have to go for wins. We have to point race because we're not locked in. And if we get locked in, that just, you're putting, the pressure just went to somebody else that's in 15, 16, 17th, and points that, oh, man, this guy that was back here has got a win now. Like, when a guy in the mid-20s or something or anywhere, it's not in the top 16 wins a race, man, it makes it even harder. Right. You know, because that's not a guy that you were accounting for to take a spot up, and now he's there, and he's not moving.

But, yeah, I agree with everything that he said, how the runs worked out, how the outside, They were having trouble on the outside land, and I could see that. If you go back and look at it, those guys were, they could push a little bit, but they couldn't push like Michael and Brad. Like, they couldn't work like we could together. And my guy knew that. And he knew, like Brad's probably, like Michael said, he's probably one of the smartest plate racers there is. And he's always thinking ahead.

And he knew what he was doing. But Michael is absolutely right, and he needs to make, I mean, he was willing to make them moves to try to win the race. If that, if by chance that 1% it works out, I mean, his season... You're not saying sorry. No, his season's completely flipped. Yeah. You know, and whatever happened in the beginning of the season doesn't even matter right now because he's in the playoffs. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, very interesting conversation to be had about McDowell. But we have another driver, a former driver turned analyst. joining us next here on DJD Reloaded. Stick around. We got Jamie McMurray coming up next. All right, time to bring in a Daytona 500 winner, spent 16 years full time in the Cup series as well. And now you can see them on NASCAR on Fox. We're bringing in Jamie McMurray right now. And we're talking a little bit about blocking. Now, earlier in the show, Jamie, Denny Hamlin said there was a 99% chance when you're throwing those big blocks that it's just not going to work out. Are you giving it the same percentage or do you have a different viewpoint on block? Yeah, I would say it just depends on the circumstances.

You know, Talladega is a lot harder to do the second block at because of how wide the track is. I think Daytona's a little bit easier. And I think it also, it just depends on, you know, how far you had to go in both directions. But one thing that stuck out to me when I watched on Sunday is, I mean, Brad almost, like, you know, Brad made two moves as well. and when he moved back down in front of Noah, it looked to me like they almost touched as well. Like it was really close.

And then obviously McDowell was even closer. But, you know, the difference in the two is that Brad was a little less aggressive and how fast he came back down the track. And I don't know, like I would, I wanted to, I knew McDowell was on the show. And I wanted to hear what he said because like when you, you know, it's so easy to watch those back over and over and pick it apart. but it just looked like McDowell didn't react quick enough to the second block. It seemed like Brad moved down and then like there was a little hesitation and it got him behind.

Yeah, Michael McDowell did kind of say that there were a lot of things that he would do differently. He didn't want to share those to give away any secrets, of course. But from an analysis perspective, from what you were watching, what do you think he could have done different? Well, in hindsight, it's really easy, right? You don't throw the second block or if you do, you make sure you get down in front of them. I listened to Denny earlier this we talked about, and he's really, right, but I feel like it's so hard for Denny to evaluate McDowell's situation, because Denny's already won a couple of races, and he makes the playoffs every year, where McDowell's

in a little, a completely different situation. And so I think, you know, in hindsight, he obviously shouldn't have them in the second block and hoped that they could maybe race back to the start, finish line. I still don't think McDowell's going to win, though. I mean, Tyler had a pretty big run, and the odds of Tyler continuing to push McDowell when they you know when he got back down in front of him I think are zero because he had some momentum so I don't know I mean I don't uh I mean I hate it for McDowell because that was a great story but I don't I mean I I think he did the right thing for his situation and and where he's at you were shaking your head but then you nod yeah I mean I agree I mean he has to do whatever

he can at that point but you know I don't think I don't think he liked his odds of us getting beside him and getting by him because I do think if Brad gets beside him, Noah pushes us through. And I think the best thing that can happen for Michael at that point is get Tyler's help or Noah and Brad get to racing side by side and maybe get make contact or something. But like Jamie made a really good point about Denny's scenario is way different than Michael's. You know, Michael's, he's in desperation mode. You know, he's in desperation mode at that point. And he was willing to do what it took, you know.

and like the thing that did stand out to me like I thought we had him on the second move because the gap the amount of race track that we were covering you just and the gap between Michael and Brad at that point like there's no way Michael could have seen Brad in his mirror still because Brad was way down on the bottom and Michael was coming back down I mean I literally had time to think to myself like okay he's not going to come all the way down in front of us how are we going to defend this 10 like my mind was already switching to Noah and when Michael came all of And I was like, oh, you know, like, oh, gosh. And at that point, I don't even know what I said at that point.

Brad checked up a little bit and Tyler got a run. And I remember telling Brad, no caution, keep going. But I literally had time to think, you can't, Dayton is so narrow. You don't have time to make those moves. And it's definitely, you can definitely counter a move at Daytona a little bit quicker. But that second move at Talladega covering that much racetrack, man, like, it takes a long time to get. It doesn't seem like a long time. But in the call, like when you.

you're watching it and spotting it like you're literally like there's no way he's going all the way about down and then oh he is oh no and then the big one but yeah i mean i agree with the different situations and i honestly think if you're in that same scenario michael probably tries to make the same same move now if he's on the cusp of the points he probably maybe he probably tries to race it out and takes that third or fourth or second or whatever and and continues on but that's not the I think what happened. I think something else that you have to keep in mind in any type of super speedway track is if you find me someone who's successful at those, I will point out a lot of wrecks that they've caused

because you can't continue to have success at that. You can't have success at that type of track without taking a lot of risk. And so, I mean, the situation that McDowell was in, I mean, he's good at those because he's aggressive. And, you know, what you don't know from his perspective is what's happening two or three rows back that is how quick that run is coming. And I always try to tell everyone if you've ever merged on the on ramp on an interstate and you look in your review mirror and you're like, I think I can make it, but I'm not 100% sure. That's speedway racing, right? You look in your mirror and you're like, I think I can get down in front of them, but you don't always know. And I just feel like that's kind of the easiest way for someone to relate to it because we do that every day here because we live on the interstate.

But there's a lot of unknowns and there's a lot of risk taken in all those moves. Yeah, you mentioned kind of the art of blocking and a lot of these drivers taking risks. Who comes to mind who just pops up in your mind that's really good at that on those super speedway races? Yeah. So, I mean, well, Joey Lagano is pretty good at taking risk. But I heard TJ say something before I came on about Brad being methodical. I don't know if that's the word you use, but I always use that word to describe Denny.

And I would put Brad in that same category of someone who, when you watch, I don't feel like they're wild. Like there's some, like Ricky Stenhouse Jr. He's wild, right? I mean, like, every time, you're like, you don't know what's going to happen. But he's good at those because he takes a chance and he knows how to timeout runs. But I would say, like, I mean, I think about. Brad and Denny, and I know they've been around for a long time, but it's always been that way

with those guys. Like, I don't, I don't feel like when you watch that you have to take a deep breath or you're, you're like, oh, it's getting ready to wreck. They seem like they're a little more calculated in the moves that they make. In those instances, too, when you're analyzing this, I'm sure you probably think back to when you were in the car and kind of your mentality. What do you lean on from your experience in the car when you're looking at these guys taking these big risks? Yeah, so I would just say that throughout, like I got to live a bunch of generations of cars and rules packages. And even with the same car, when they would change the spoiler, all of that was different.

And it was always interesting to me, whether it was the drivers or the teams, kind of who could figure it out. Just even with spoiler changes, one of the years that I won at Talladega, I just remember, I learned, like, it would be hard to explain, but I kind of learned how to manipulate. the lines. And I, when it was happening, I'm like, I can't believe no one else has, has figured out that this, this is kind of what works. And then you come to the next race and everyone has figured it out at that point. So, you know, it just, it depends. And I've not been in the Gen 7 car. And I would say that watching that race, though, and T.J. would, I assume would agree with me, it seemed like watching that race, Brad could have pushed McDowell way out anytime he won, But I felt like Brad was in the best position at the end of the race because he knew that he could push him out.

And because of how wide Talladega is, I mean, you'd want to be the leader hoping that there's a wreck. But if there's not a wreck, I would rather be where Brad was because I think I can beat you back to the start, finish line. Yeah, McDowell kind of said he wanted to lead, but you probably think that Brad thought he was in the best spot too. Yeah, I really, knowing that how good we could push, and we covered it a little bit before. but knowing how good we could push, I knew Brad, and I knew, like, when he got on Michael off a turn two, man, he was on him so early, like, before the exit of the corner. And I knew Brad knew that he could push him way out. The bonus of that was, is that we brought Noah with us. And Noah did a, Noah ran a really good race.

And knowing that we had the 10 in our pocket, and if we make a move, the 10's going to go with the momentum, you know, I liked it. I told you guys earlier, I liked where we were sitting. I knew Brad could get Michael clear and us clear. The 10 was a bonus if that happened. But I, you know, usually at Talladega, and the way this racing is, there was no third lane. So I really wasn't overly worried about, you know, the three wides when things get really sketchy.

But nobody could get running outside. So it was just two by two. And those guys aren't, nobody would pull out. So it really wasn't a high probability. of a wreck until the trial will at least. And I thought we could get Michael by that point. But like Jamie said, though, I thought we were in the best position knowing how, you know, knowing Brad could get him clear whenever he wanted in himself.

I thought we were going to win the race into three. The other thing that stuck out to me, like when I watched the race, is I'm assuming that Brad checked up when McDowell pulled down in front of him because that whole row lost all their momentum. and I would say for as upset as McDowell is, I bet you Brad has just dwelled on that since Sunday, knowing that if he stays in the throttle,

even, I mean, McDowell's going to get turned anyway, but he lost his momentum, and ultimately that's what won Tyler Redick the race. Yeah, I mean, Brad definitely checked up a little.

I don't think he was... She looked at you for the answer. That was great. I don't... I mean, it's been tough week. It's been hard. I think I turned my phone off Sunday night.

I was got a lot of messages and I think I turned my phone off. That was tough. But I do think, I don't think Brad expected Mike would have come all the way back to the line because that's just not a normal move that people make. Like you covered, I don't know how many lanes wide Talladega is, seven or eight wide. And you covered, he covered almost 16 lanes of traffic in a couple seconds. I didn't think, you know, I don't think Brad expected him to come all the way down there. And when he did, he cracked it just a little.

bit and that gave you know Tyler enough momentum to get everybody and it worked out yeah a lot of disappointment from the 6 and the 34 for sure after all of that Jamie thanks so much for joining us and kind of giving us your insight on on this topic today we appreciate it yeah thanks guys have a good day thank you man all right so anything there I thought it was kind of interesting you know he brought up something we haven't talked about and that a lot of guys that are good on super speedways they do risk it a little bit more, and I think that that's definitely true. Yeah, and he made a good point of the different styles of it. You don't, you don't really see Denny making a lot of wild moves, which this is what makes it fun, because you got guys that make the really aggressive moves.

You got like Michael, and Michael's pretty methodical getting to the front. He's pretty, he knows what he's doing, but you got guys that are really good at getting up there, and they're usually pretty wild doing it, but it works, you know, and it makes it. exciting. You got the ultimate thinkers like Brad and Denny and then you kind of got the wild cards like like Ricky said but he's really good at doing it. It makes it exciting. Yeah, definitely. And the guys that are good at that, sometimes they're also good at pushing people too. I know because Louski's good especially. We're definitely good at pushing people. For Chris Busher as well for RFK racing. But we also asked on X this week on hashtag don't hold

me to it. We asked fans if you were kind of in this scenario wanting to take the checker flag, who would you want pushing you? So let's go ahead and bring up what fans had to say about this. So somebody, NASCAR woman, said, how do I not go with Kenny Wallace? That's a pretty good one. Bubba Wallace, he's currently one of the best, the Pace Car, because everyone else would wreck me. Noah Gregson and Martin Trucks Jr. I also was reading through these last night and people were saying Brad.

And then somebody said not Brad. I don't know what to make of that. Was it a driver, another driver? No. Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean, if you want to win, you got to have a guy that's aggressive doing it. And with aggressiveness comes the risk, you know? I mean, do you get pushed? I mean, if we don't push Mike with the end there, maybe that outside lane gets enough momentum and they win the race.

So, to me, Brad is one of the best pushers. But, you know, like I said, though, it also comes with the territory of sometimes. mistakes happen and and you know there's been there was wrecks the the wrecking three that brought out the last caution those were all you know Toyota's lined up and they all wrecked with each other so and they just because they're trying to run super fast laps to make up the ground and that you know it's just it's hard and the guys that it get good at it I mean they're good at but there's also been they learn for mistakes as well so it'd be hard for me and I know he's my friend but it'd be hard for me not to take Brad, although I'd rather be pushing him.

I think I'd rather push him. Yeah, you'd rather watch that spot that. I don't think he'd trust me. Yeah, he might not trust me pushing him. I agree with the viewer that said Bubba Wallace, because a lot of times on these plate races, you do see him kind of finish up the front. He's underrated. He's underrated these tracks.

He's actually really, he's really smart. He's really smart at running these races as well. And I think Bubba set back and learned he's watched guys like Denny and them guys. And more often or not, he's right in there into mix with them guys. Yeah. Somebody also said the tow truck, so I'm guessing they're just going to go for the win and not really worry about pushing it. That's right. All right. So we know who fans maybe would want to push them in that scenario. But we also asked you this week on Dale's calls for you to call in and tell us if you would rather your driver finish the race or risk it all for the win. So let's go ahead and take a listen. The way they race in packs nowadays, you've got to block the way Michael McDile blocked. I don't think you can do that. But you have to protect. position, most especially if it's in the front.

I think this kind of goes to what we've been saying, and a lot of fans probably want to see their driver risk at all, right? I mean, you want a good finish at the end of the weekend, and that's maybe beneficial for the teams and the fans, but fans would love to see you, you know, put that extra effort. I think you always love to see it. Yeah. But, I mean, the part where he says, you have to do it, I don't think it'll work, but you have to do it. You know, there's, but you always like to see it, you know, and I don't know, it's just high risk, high reward. I rather them take the risk to win it all.

Because think about it, if you don't take that risk to block, and you can rack out anyway, don't be it, but you're going to take that risk, you've got to make it happen. And if I don't finish, don't be it. I do what I have to do with the block because that's what you've got to do to win these things. I think of the majority of fans probably would air on that side as well.

Listen, you look at the end of Talladega and you could feel that moment building. You knew something was going to happen even on the last lap. And that's the moment that really keeps fans on the edge of their seat, right? That's what they've watched the whole race for is to see what happens at that split second. Yeah, they want to see what these guys are going to do at the end. And the way that everything is evolved with the playoffs, wins mean everything. So more often or not, you're probably going to get these big blocks. and off a turn for at Talladega, Daytona, whatever it is, it's exciting.

And watching another guy get pushed and drive around another guy, it's a little bit exciting, but not nearly as exciting is a guy crossing 16 lanes of traffic to try to win a race. Yeah, willing to risk at all. That's right. Well, we appreciate you joining us, of course, today on DJD Reloaded a ton of content out there this week on Dirty Mo Media, of course, on Sunday nights. After the race, you can listen to Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi on the teardown. You got Monday with Denny Hamlin and Actions Detramental.

Also Monday, door bumper clear. How did you enjoy this show? It's kind of a safe space for you this time, right? This is a much safer space. Yeah, and I don't have another host yelling at me across the table for ridiculous. You can say whatever you want and rebuttal to them and they, you know, nobody's going to yell at you back. Well, yeah, but most time they, I don't even think they know what they say half the time. But yeah, much safer space here.

Thanks for that. Yeah. Jesse Love, y'all had him on. So that was a great win for him this weekend. in as well. Of course, Tuesday and Wednesday, you had the Dell Jr. download with Casey Atwood. Wednesday is when Speed Street was released. A lot of news out of IndyCar this week, so be sure to check that out. And then, of course, later today on Thursday, we got Dirty Mo Doe, a lot of things to bet on. We got the NFL draft this week as well. I'm sure there's bets out there for that,

right? Do they bet on the draft? I don't know. I feel like that you would bet on maybe who they'd take. I mean, they bet on everything. They bet on the how long that takes to sing the national. national anthem. So I'm sure they're betting on the draft. Yeah, a lot out there. So be sure to check it all out this week on Dirty Mo Media. That's going to do it for us this Thursday here on DJD Reloaded. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.