Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - From Chronic Pain to Global Healing: The True Story Behind Theragun

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

After a devastating motorcycle accident, Dr. Jason Wersland didn’t just recover, he reinvented recovery. In this powerful episode, Dr. J and host Shawn French break down the real origin of Theragun, how pain shapes behavior, and why wellness isn’t a luxury, it’s a daily necessity. If you’re living with tension, trauma, or stress, this conversation will change how you approach healing forever. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com. The darker it gets, the easier it. is to find the light in the room. Come on. That's a good one. When you're in pain, you'll do anything. Derrigan is actually for pain. It was innovated and manifested through pain. Everyone experiences pain at some point. Raise your hand if you have a thing. My thing's my neck. My thing's my low back. My things, my feet, they kill me. That's where pain manifests itself. And to be able to have something that you can control, that you know where it is, you know how to use it and you know the expected

outcome, that thought process is behavior change, and pain drives a lot of our behavior change. What's up? I'm done. I'm me for the entirety. I'll put it in overtime. I'll be working. Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time.

I confirmed it. A whole society determined. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode. I am your host, Sean French. And today I have an amazing guest for you. Before I introduce him, please go follow Spotify, YouTube and Apple Podcast. to get all the amazing interviews of the Determined Society.

So today I have with me an amazing, amazing doctor. He had an accident in his life and created a product that you already know about. Most of you probably have one. But I have with me the founder and the chief wellness officer of Theribody, Dr. Jason Worsland. What's up, buddy? Hey, man. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

Absolutely, man. It's good to meet you. really excited to learn more about you and for you to share with the audience about the origin story of, it used to be Therogun, but rebranded to Therobody. The origin story of how it was created and how you went through that process, basically out of necessity, right? So without further ado, man, just can you give the audience a little bit of information on how Therabody was created?

Well, the origin story, I'm a chiropractor in Los Angeles. in 2007, I was in a motorcycle accident. I was splitting traffic like you do in California, and a car came out of nowhere. There was a delivery truck in front of me. It was the perfect setting, and I ended up teaboning this side of this Volkswagen Jetta. And up to that point, I had never really been injured, Sean. I played sports, all types of sports. I never had had that issue where I was out for a long extended period of time.

so I'd never gone through that what happens in your mind when you're injured. So I was suddenly a patient, and I'd never been that before. So I ended up having a 9mm disc bulge in my neck on the right side between C5, C6, and it radiated down my arm. I was in a ton of pain, and I went to my practice to try and figure out what I could do to treat myself, and I realized I couldn't. And that really started this idea of like, wait a second, I'm in pain, and I got to wait for someone to treat.

treat me. That doesn't, I don't like this because I knew as a chiropractor that those hours, minutes, whatever, that I'm in pain, inflammatory process responds, like all of those things. And I just wanted to keep myself. So that was the thinking. So one day I'm sitting in my office waiting to be treated and I'm sitting next to a table that vibrates and I rested my arm on the table. And I thought, I wonder what would this would do if I had that, knowing what vibration does to tissue, I just was thinking to myself, I wonder if that would release the tension in my body because we do that for traction. So I clicked it on and put my arm on there. And it was like for 30 seconds, it was heaven. I was like, oh my God, it felt so good. But then my body

accommodated. So like your watch on your wrist, your body accommodates to that stimulus because it's not strong enough or threatening enough, to be honest. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast, smart move. Being financially savvy, smart move. Another smart move, having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. I was like, wow, that was fascinating.

That triggered this cascade of events where I was like, wait a second, if that did that, what if I had something that I could actually have with me? So I had, there was this product that chiropractors used a lot called the Vibrocusser, and it vibrates, has a dial on the bottom, and I would just hold that thing underneath my arm, but my body would accommodate. So I was going through this like relief and then frustration and then relief and I'm thinking, I've got to have something that actually makes that go away. what if I had something that didn't vibrate?

Because vibration contacts the skin, which makes it easier to accommodate. So I'm thinking, what if I had something that didn't touch the skin the whole time? And as I was doing this, I'm like, oh, shit, I'll make that. So I just went to my garage and I grabbed some tools. And I started messing around seeing if I could actually recreate this idea that I was thinking. So I made the first theragon in January of 2007. and I literally took a McKita jigsaw, bent the blade and wrapped a dish towel around the blade, and then I wrapped electrical tape really tight around the dish towel.

And I just turned it on and put it on my body. And when I say it worked, it took the pain away for an extended period of time. So for me, it was like, oh my God, this is amazing. And I'm realizing that the pain is staying away where I had expected. it to come back within 30 seconds or so with the previous products that I was using. So that's kind of how it started. And then I developed it from that to I had a patient come in. I'd gotten better.

I had a patient come into my practice who'd been in a similar injury, in a similar situation, had horrible insurance, didn't have the money. And I'd never thought to use this on anyone else. Like it did what it did for me and I kind of put it away. I would use it after the gym sometimes. but then he came in and I realized, man, there's no way I'm going to get this guy better. And he's in so much pain. I recognize that.

Like I could sympathize with that. So I thought, man, I would bring that. So I had him come back the next day. I brought this back, showed him what it was. His wife thought I was nuts. And I said, the McKita drill with a bin blade. Yeah, yeah. I carried it in.

I actually walked in my office with a, it was in a Ralph's paper grocery bag. So I but I turned the minute I turned it on and put it on him it was like he it spoke the language. He just immediately was like, oh wow, this is amazing. So we went through this experience where he was learning and I was teaching and when you're working with patients like that, you become really close. And so we've been tight. He was about my age. I'd been on a, I went to see family and I came back and I went in my office and he was

sitting in my office and he had this thing in his hand. And he's like, Doc, this thing saved our lives. You got to figure it out. Because I had kept telling him, like, I don't know what it's doing, but it's amazing. Try this. Do this. So that's kind of what started. That was when the universe punched me in the face.

I should say, punched me in the chest and just said, hey, you got to do this. And that, I still remember where I was when it happened and everything. But it was like I realized, I have to figure this out. Like, this did something. And I can't deny what it did to me. seeing what it did to him. So that started this five-year sort of trek to figure out what is it doing? What's the frequency?

What's the amplitude? How about the balance? What is it doing to the nervous system? What does it help with how do you access the parasympathetic? So this has been an 18-year school for me from that moment on to be able to learn and understand what this is doing. and I'm still learning what it does, seeing that it can actually help you sleep if you use it right. So that's kind of what I take this as like a personal quest

that I've got to figure out how to get this in to as many hands as possible through whatever ways I can. I mean, I've worked with patients that have had neuropathies and they're bothering her feet. I've had patients that have had things in their bodies where they're like, I had this forever and I put this on there and it's gone now. So like I'm learning as I go, the performance aspect, where Therrigan took a turn was in 2014, when I got into athletes' hands, and they started using it for performance, where I was using it in a clinic to relieve pain, increased range

of motion, help with blood flow, like to help my therapies, gets into athletes' hands and it just took off. I mean, it was like a rocket ship that couldn't stop because the guys saw how easy it was to use for performance, to actually run faster, jump higher, and then for recovery in ways that They weren't having been using them. So I came along when recovery was like foam rolling was barely a thing. So now you see how the world has progressed to where they're actually putting aside budget and time and space for recovery. Where, you know, 2014-15, what are you talking about? I don't have time for that.

What's recovery? Why are you, it's fine. You don't need to recover. It's funny because, you know, you mentioned foam rolling. And I'm a former athlete. I played baseball at LSU. and foam rolling is always the worst part of the day. Like it hurts so bad.

It shouldn't have to hurt that bad. And that's the thing. It's like, how can you expect somebody? You know, because I've taken a look at your protocol for like morning, you know, afternoon, you know, evening time and then prior to bedtime, right? And all that makes sense. And I want to get into that because it serves a function other than just if you're injured or performance. It could just really be used to help you with your everyday, life to stay in balance, right? To sleep good, to feel good. And then, yes, recovery. But

recovery shouldn't, like, to your point, it should not hurt like that. It should be something that's sustainable because who is going to sit there? And like, yep, time to foam roll. Time to foam roll. I'm going to go do it every single day. And there are some crazy ass people, man, that sit there. I'm like, man, I love the foam roll. I'm like, then you must have zero nerve endings in your legs or anything because that stuff is not fun. Yeah, it sucks, man. But, No, I love it because, you know, going back to your protocols, like educate the audience on how they could use it in an everyday environment if they're not an athlete or if they're not, they're not injured,

because I think that's important too. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text. But which you do you listen to? Is it, we could buy a house in Tulum? Get optioning those options. We could lose everything. Or let's do a little research. Get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you.

Learn more at finra.org slash trade smart. Yeah, you know, there's a book out called The Body Keeps the Score, and this isn't new science. People don't, you know, I'm not the first one saying this, but we store our trauma in our body. And whether it's micro traumas from the gym, which is controlled, or it's a trauma that you, you know, dropped something and you reached and had to grab it. it or it's emotional trauma we all have that and you know when you get in the high performance space with some of these athletes you know they're not robots they've been through their trauma they have they carry it but ironically we're not really taught how to release it there's talk therapy so the the idea that our body holds it it's going to go somewhere and a lot of times

it goes into our head where we're saying things to ourselves we're so mean to ourselves like we're really hard on ourselves and that really comes from a sympathetic perspective, it comes from this fight or flight space where the voices in our head can really start talking to us. So what Theribody does, what Therogun does, and I actually gave a talk about this at Oxford University with a guy named Stephen Porges, who created the polyvagal theory, which is how the body stores and releases trauma. So we've proven this. But what happens is when you use Theragon on your body for about two minutes or more, let's say you get to a two or three minute threshold, you start activating your parasympathetic nervous system.

Heart rate slows down, blood flow slows down, the body starts to get into this state. That's a parasympathetic state. That's rest and digest. So to have Theragone in your life, to calm you down. It literally is a nervous system regulator. So people are like, what is this, massage gun? No, it's a nervous system regulator. I can use it in ways to get you ready for the gym.

I could use it in ways to get you ready to run a 40-yard dash. I can use it in ways to get you ready to jump out of the gym, but I can also help put you to sleep. So if I can activate the nervous system, now this is really about emotional regulation. This is about nervous system regulation. So, you know, you want a cup of coffee to get going and stay focused. There's certain ways we have a prepare protocol,

a perform protocol, and a recover protocol. So to go through the protocols quickly, because I think that's what you asked, prepares 30 seconds per muscle. So you go, if we're doing biceps, you're going to go cross fiber for 10 seconds, pretty good pressure at the highest speed. So the frequency is 2400. You're going at the origin of the muscle for 10 seconds.

So that's the Golgi tendon. You're activating the gulgi tendon. Then you go to the insertion of the muscle cross fiber 10 seconds. And then you're going to go with the muscle fiber for 10 seconds. So it's just 30 seconds. You're not jamming it in. You're not trying to stop the muscle. the gun, you're just running at the highest frequency, you're activating your nervous system.

These things we have here, they're already red. They're full of blood. They don't need more blood, right? It's the nervous system that needs to allow you to move, to approximate, to get closer to things and further away from things. Extend your arm, stretch your arm. So it's 10, 10, 10. That's prepare. 10 seconds each muscle. You're doing your quads. You're doing your forearms, your traps. Just find the area and hit it. It's not long. The perform is 15 seconds in the muscle belly. You're doing shoulder presses. You want to hit the muscle belly at the shoulder on both sides, hit the traps on both sides for about 15 seconds. It's a perfect rest time. You're taking a rest, take the gun, hit those areas, unless you're doing like a hit workout or something. It's a little bit different.

Yeah. And then recover is two minutes or more anywhere on the body with breathwork. So you can see how you're down regulating the nervous system. So using it on your quadriceps, just kind of catching your breath, slowing your heart rate, closing your eyes, nostril breathing, like allowing your body

to get into that state of recovery. And the trick, Sean, this is the trick that I want people to know. The sooner you can do that after a workout, the better off you are. People will go to the gym,

get in their car, grab a smoothie, drive home. And it's an hour goes by before they even get a therigan on them. or before they even get in a hot shower. So what I'm trying to preach to people is all this stuff is amazing. We all know how important recovery is,

but it's so important that the sooner you do it after you work out, and that goes for sitting for six hours at a desk as well. You know, getting up from a desk and taking that and going, allowing the theragone to release the tension that you're holding in your body. Because you're, you ask the question also, like, how does this apply to every day in their life? you don't have to work out to use this. My mom's got a theragon.

She uses it all the time. And she's 74 years old and she uses it to ride her bike. She used it to wake up in the morning. She puts it on the bottom of her feet to help her sleep at night. And I'm just talking about there again. I'm not even talking about all of other products, you know, like the jet boots and the goggles. Yeah, the goggles, like everything. And then you have the face mask, the infrared, all that stuff, right?

It's like, that's when I, when I'm looking at all this and I'm listening and, you know, in my research and everything like that, is it's a wellness product. It's a physical, mental, and emotional wellness product. And I think that's what makes this so great because it can literally impact how you're feeling emotionally, how you're recovering, how you're sleeping. And we know sleep is a massive part, right? I mean, that right there, I mean,

I know a lot of people that have a hard time falling asleep. My wife, like my wife has a hard time falling asleep. she has an even a harder time staying asleep and I'm over there out right I'm gone so for someone that has that sleep issue right it's something with the jaw right you do something with the jaw um with the theragon right uh well the let's back up a second I think the importance that people need to understand because you said something I wrote it down I want to make a know of this wellness is a daily practice like brushing your teeth I tell people all the time. You don't ever brush your teeth one last time unless it's really that last time.

Yeah. You don't ever like make your bed for one last time. Like this is, these are things that you're doing on a daily basis. And that's the same with wellness. So the people that have sleep issues, the first thing I'm going to find out is what's your sleep routine? Let's back into that. What time do you go to bed? Ah, it's different every night. Okay, well, let's start there. Your body wants a rhythm. It, the reason I, I would bet to say that the reason you conk out is you have a time, 10, 30, 11, 12, whatever that time is. And if it gets past that time, you're like, I can't stay up to them anymore. So you've got yourself into a routine where you're going to knock out. I also believe that women carry so much more than men in their mind.

They have the ability to navigate so many more things. So for them to downregulate, it takes them physical movement. Like they've got to seriously sit down, take a moment, close their eyes, and allow that gate to open for them to get into that space. Guys, in general, I've seen just kind of like, you know, I'm done. They just hit the pillow. But women have a challenge. Whether it's the breathwork or whatever that is, I'm not trying to say that's an easy fix. But for me, when I'm working with people, I back into that.

Well, that's, what time do you go to sleep? Okay, cool. What time do you wake up? All right, cool. Let's try and get those numbers. closer together. Let's try and get around 11 and around 6, 30 or 7. Let's start there. Then that starts to think, okay, I got to start getting ready. Oh, okay. Well, now it's, I don't know if you have kids, but anyone that has kids that's listening to this, yeah,

you know, like, if you don't have a sleep routine, you're, it's mayhem. You're toast. Yeah. And we're the same as adults. We just don't have our mom telling us, hey, here's your warm milk and a cookie before you go to bed. So for me, wellness starts with sleep. You're so right. But I think the wellness idea of it being a daily practice and then you paying attention to your sleep routine. I have one.

I could tell it to you like it's the same thing every night, even when I'm traveling. I have a process that I kind of take my body through to get my nervous system to a place that it recognizes, oh, I can let that stuff go. I can hang that on my tree and I'll pick it up tomorrow when I'm ready to go, you know, fight the battles. So that's, I've had a lot of success doing that. Our products that we've created are based on that and a sleep routine. The smart goggles were meant to be a 15 minute routine that you can take off and set

down and go to sleep. And everyone's like, yeah, but I fall asleep in them. Amazing. Let's give you a sleep mask. Do you know, we have a sleep mask? You can just switch to the mask, full blackout. But sleep's important. In fact, John, it's so important.

It's the very first study we ever did with Theribody. The first study was I kept seeing the longer that I used this on athletes before they performed, whatever it was, I would get words like, dude, I can't feel with groggy. Man, I could go to sleep right now. That's not what they want to feel like before they're going to go around a three-yard dash. So I started recognizing that. And I was like, wait a second, what is this? So we sort of narrowed it down and we actually did a sleep study.

We should send that to you guys. I'll have you send that. I love that. Absolutely. But it's it's so important. That's the first study we did and we talk about all the time. It's fundamental and foundational of what we do. If you have a theragon, use it two minutes before you go to bed, just start there.

And then you'll start recognizing how to implement it in your life. Man, I sound like a seldom, don't I? No, hey, man, it's great. No, it's really cool because, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of technology out there and people will tell you a lot of different things to prepare your body for sleep. But, you know, there's a science to this. And, you know, I kind of, you know, did some reading, obviously, before here. And before we hopped on the recording.

And it's just, it was amazing to me because I will have to admit, over the years, I saw it as a recovery tool and I saw it as a performance tool, right? But I'd never stopped to think about, like, man, what if this could release some of the tension in my neck and in my rhomboids? what am I holding on to that this technology can help relieve to help me feel better, right? And again, if you just take something as simple as two minutes before bed or in between sets at the gym, you can really optimize everything you're doing by activating the parasitic, you know, person with sympathetic nerve, I can't speak right now. Good Lord. Good God, man.

I have to say that word a hundred times a day. I was like, you know, everybody knows what I'm trying to say, you know. But no, it's like there's so many different applications. And I think that's what makes it so amazing, right? And truly, I mean, if you look at it outside of Theragon, all the other products, it's a focus. This company is focused on helping people feel better. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, when we make products, we start with frequencies. So Therrigan has a frequency. The foundational frequency is 40 hertz. So if anyone that's listening or paying attention to what that is, you'll know what 40 hertz is. It's a really important frequency to the nervous system. And then the amplitude is the distance it travels to go off and on the body. So you're speaking the language of the nervous system.

If it's on the body the whole time, the body can't understand that language. everything we've created is based off that. So the goggles, the smart goggles, for example, they have pressure points and vibration nodes in certain areas around your face to access your vagus nerve. So if you can downregulate your nervous system, we also put a PPG reader on it,

which is a pulse reader. So we are actually taking your pulse while you're wearing the goggles and it's feeding you a stimulus that downregulate your nervous system. So if you've, turn the lights down just a little bit, and I started talking a little bit slower, your nervous system would sort of step into that. You'd kind of start doing the same thing.

That's what we're trying to do with the goggles. If you close your eyes, people may know this. If you close your eyes, your body, your heart rate will slow down about 10 points. So if you're at 70, you close your eyes, let it calm down. Your heart rate will slow down. It's just down regulating. So the note, the things we created for Thera body, or for the the masks, it's based off of what's happening to the nervous system. But if you looked at the goggles, you would never know that's what's going on. Same thing with the light mask you've talked about, the TheraFace mask. That's not just a light mask.

That's actually great for headaches because we put these vibrating nodes that massage the muscles around your eye. The top muscle on our head that comes over the top attaches right at the base right here. when you get headaches, a lot of times you don't know you're squinting and you're pulling that muscle, but it manifests back here. So if we can actually treat the muscles of the face while you're having light therapy, now it's multi-modal. That's a hard work.

But it's multi-modal. I'm doing many modalities at the same time. So I have light going on. I have vibration along here. We've actually put the straps on the head so that they go with the suture. of the head because anyone that works on that understands when you massage the sutures of a head, no matter how old you are, you're actually calming down the body. It releases these chemicals in the body that actually helps you calm down. So these things we have, so we have athletes that actually

wear this, not just for the light, but for the light therapy that it does for the eyes and for concussion protocols to decrease the inflammation in the head just by this mild vibration. So you wouldn't know that by looking at our products, but there's a lot of thought that goes into this. We're speaking to your nervous system, and we don't take that lightly. That's so funny because I am listening to all this stuff. And it's like to your point, like I didn't know all this stuff, right? And I'm thinking of many things that like my wife always gets headaches, right? Doesn't sleep well. All these different things, man, is just like there's a market out there with you guys that can help with this stuff.

And for the audience listening, I want you. You know, there's something that you said about your wife. I want to call something out. Sure. Mothers especially, they have the ability to get through some of the most challenging things in life. And there haven't typically been solutions for them. When I say them, I mean mothers, women in general. I don't know if you know this, but the studies that we've all heard about when, you know,

nine out of ten people, blah, blah, blah, that's men. They don't think they've never been able to include women in studies because they're so different. You can get 13 different 30-year-olds in different cycles and different life experiences, but the men are the same. So it's easier to run a study on men. So for women, I think what's interesting is there definitely are solutions for women. But I don't think they're marketed to women that way. So the goggles, if I had women, if they've ever had mastitis, if any woman's ever had mastitis,

it is the worst. And they tell you to do these really weird things, the massage, get hot water. Well, you know what? If you took a theragon with a super soft and you put it on there for 15 seconds, your milk's letting down. But that's not marketed to them. So if I had your wife, I'd be like, let's get you in a good sleep routine. Let's downregulate your nervous system. Get the goggles on.

So right before you go to sleep, you're shutting that lights out. You're not doing this. You're not doing like social media, whatever, like screen time. You're actually eyes closed for 15 minutes and you're getting a face massage. Trust me, she'll fall asleep. Now the staying asleep, that's where the wellness routine comes in. You've got to be able to find, and this just sounds so simple, but it's actually, I don't want to patronize anyone.

But we need pit stops in our life. We need a 30-second pit stop. Like, oh, I need to just take a break for a second and get myself regulated. If you take some of those throughout the day, it's easier to stay asleep at night because your body's used to being like, oh. You know, that's interesting because I don't, like, there's times where I will take those pit stops, right? Like, I'll be able to identify, Sean, you're running too hot right now. Like, this has been an intense two hours. You need to take some time to downshift and maybe just be.

And if it, the one thing for me, though, and I, and, I want the audience to really key in on this because there's a lot of people that feel bad when they take those moments, right? Because they feel like they should be working hard or they should be grinding it out. Like I believe in hard work, but I also believe in being strategic and understanding where you're at at any given moment, right? And I matured into that. So I wanted to make it very clear.

Those moments that you are feeling like you need to take a, just take a beat, you have to. Because it's your body telling you something. Yeah. Yeah. And again, going back to the voices in our head, that's really what it comes down to. Especially grinders, warriors that are out, you know, slaying dragons every day. You, you, you, that's how that you've convinced yourself that that's what it's taken for you to get to where you are, which is 100% true. Because we need that side of us. But to your point, we have to have that harmony. We've got to be able to find a way to really downregulate. you don't get stronger in the gym you get stronger when you recover your saw doesn't get

stronger when it's cutting it gets stronger or sharper when you sharpen it so i think it's just that concept and just getting to the point where you're like i got to stop i got to slow down and that's that's that's that's our quest in life right for all of us individually i think that's the purpose we're here ultimately it's not easy right it's not easy at all i i mean i find for me like on the days that i don't record those are my days you know i'll have those times where i can literally for a two hour block just be you know just be like and i don't count the gym because that's at 430 a m i'm barely even awake when i'm there right but when i have these times where i'm not recording or doing something with the show i'm like okay this is a good opportunity for me to do something that i don't ever

normally do i'm going to lay down right here and i'm just going to let my dogs on my lap and I'm just going to, I'm just going to chill. And that, that, that pours into me. And then after 20 minutes, I feel much, much better and I can get more work done. I don't feel bad about it anymore. That's important. What kind of dogs do you have? So I have a Shih Tzu and a little mini Labradoodle.

My wife will get mad when she hears this episode because I really want another pit bull. I used to have a pit bull. I love pit bulls. All my dogs are cool, man. They're chill. Melo and Stitch. Well, I love that. Great names.

You have dogs? No, I have had. I love dogs. I have had dogs. My lifestyle is just too crazy. I don't want to do that to a dog. Yeah. Leave it home all the time or with sitters, you know?

It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. That's my justification. Yeah, man. Busy guy, man. Busy guy. You can't be leaving dogs at home.

You know? You know, the one thing, too, I think is important to touch on. there's a lot of competitors right there's a lot of competitors out there that have tried to replicate um thereobody to the therogun there's some massive distinctions though in design and in how the thererigan performs with balance etc over those other uh products want touch on that because there's a lot of people are well i got one you know it's this one and it could look like a drill or a hammer you know or whatever and that's not that's not a theragun right yeah it's not now the the design in the early days was designed to be an extension of my hand.

So as a chiropractor, these are my eyes. And what some of the people may understand, we talked about accommodation. Your body can sense the smallest things. It knows the difference between heat and cold, a feather and a pin. You think about that information that travels through our hands. I was fascinated by that when I started creating Therigan,

and I thought, But if I want to hold this, I want to grab onto something and have it feel like, wow, okay, this is really meant for something. So everything along the way we did from the textures to the weight to the balance that you talked about, even to how it sounds now is I want someone to pick that up and be like, damn, okay, this is really going to do something. And if you think about holding on to a hammer or a tennis racket, you're getting your leverage and strength through your grip. But if you're gripping something holding onto it to keep from the hammer that that imbalance and you're resting that on your body, you're not only adding more pressure than you should because we know that it's about a pound of pressure per inch, but you're actually having to hold that up.

So now this whole arm that you're using to run those hairdriers sort of type theroguns, you're actually, you can't do it as long as you want to. It's hard to do that because of the leverage. So the triangle design we created allows you to rest it in your hand and it's balanced. So when you just put your hand inside the triangle and float that over your body, the amplitude and frequency and the impact is scientifically validated based off of the fact that it's a balanced theriga. But if you change those numbers, if you get a higher frequency and a lower amplitude, your body accommodates to that information sooner because it's touching your skin faster and a shorter time so the brain can't tell a difference if it's resting on there or if it's not if it's

doing this so there's a lot of things like that that people don't know I could dissect but they feel it they put it on and they're like oh damn okay I see the difference um it happens a lot with me and I'm with athletes and they'll have a competitor or a different they're going to be like hey try this. I mean, I've had guys be like, what? I didn't know. It's that big of a difference. So it is, there are a lot of copycats. People look at it. They think they can make one like us. We have a patent on the triangle. So if there's any triangle out in the world, it's ours, unless they've copied us. That's awesome. Yeah. And that's important. That's an important piece that, you know, that comes from our team being able to protect ourselves with IP. So we just hold ourselves

also higher standard. And you can tell, you know, I talked to a guy just yesterday. He said, I think I've ordered 150 theragons or massage guns off of Alibaba for my gym in Australia. I'm like, why do you keep ordering those? He goes, well, we finally stopped. We just ordered thereigons. So, you know, it's funny because I've used a theragun many times. and I've also used someone like if I'm just laying around I'm at a friend's house and they have you know I mean I guess I could be a jerk called a knockoff but that's just really what it is right it's a variation of the theragon a different competitor night and day night and freaking day man it's it's amazing when I when I use other massage guns I don't feel the relief I don't feel like

anything was really done. But to your point, man, like, with with the Theragon, it is a different experience, right? It does a massively different situation to your body and to your mind than these other products. So it's pretty cool that you guys spend so much time on that aspect of it because a lot of people just, all right, let's get this out. Let's make this design. This is all it's doing, right, is just percussive therapy.

It's just hitting you like this. But there's a science to it, right? and so it, uh, there, it's actually kind of comical how different it is. Yeah, I want, when we develop them, the, the number of times we've sat in a room and guys have held on to it. I'm asking you to pick this up and use it for two or three minutes twice a day. And I know that compliance, because I'm a chiropractor, compliance is where you lose people. They go home, I don't have time, whatever. I don't want there to be any excuse. In fact, I want you to want to pick it up. So I want you seeing, when it's sitting there, I want you to want to grab it.

And to do that, it has to feel right. It's got to look right. It has to have the richness to it. It's just a feel in your hand, like the textures. Like those are all things we pay attention to. And people have copied us even on that if you start looking at it. So yeah, there are copycats. I mean, like, listen, the feel in the hand, that's actually a thing, right? Like, there's certain pins I won't use because how it feels in my fingers. Right. I mean, this is an actual thing. thing. Yeah. It's a pen. It's a freaking pin, man. It's not something that I'm using on my body. So, you know, like I, that's a, that's a very valid statement. It is very important. You know, and again, like what you're talking about too, Jason is what I love you. We're talking about

sustainability, right? Anything that we do in life, whether it's business, fitness, wellness, uh, anything, right? Sport related. Doesn't matter. Certain strategies have to, be sustainable or you can't keep doing them and they won't be any value to you. And the thing that all the protocols show, it's like, hey, it's 10 seconds here. It's 10 seconds there. And if you use it, you know, two to three minutes at a time, you're going to have some benefit. I think everybody has those moments to where if they're sitting down watching TV or if they're just waking up in the morning, they can fire the massage gun up and help them make themselves feel. better and it's something they can do every day and not make it feel like it's a chore.

Like foam rolling. Yeah. It's... Yeah. What's next, man? You guys have any cool projects that you guys are working? I mean, I mean, obviously if you can't talk about it, no big deal. But like, you guys, thinking of anything else that you want to talk about and educate people on? No, I think the... Pay attention to the lights. Light therapy is really important. I think pay attention to how you use heat in your life.

Heat is also a very important therapy, especially as you get older. You know, we're trying to deal with some of these extraneous things beyond our control in the government with taxes and shipping and things like that. But I think the message would be from Theribody is take care of your body. but also take care of your mind. The mind-body connection is super important. All of the products we've created are to help manifest and facilitate that. So mindfulness, meditation,

breath work, you've got to connect what you're feeling and thinking in your mind with what's happening in your body. And that's what all of our products are trying to do is allow you to do that. It also helps you perform better. It also helps you recover faster. but if you're just trying to get out of your head and into your body,

that's really why we've created our product. So I could share some really cool things that we're working on that aren't finalized yet. You know, we've got a really cool product roadmap we always have. I'm working on something amazing, I think, for the neck that would be revolutionary. But yeah. So we're always we're always innovating. We're always, we have great team. We're always looking into new things.

But we're not making gimmicks. It has to be scientifically validated. We have to have protocols. I want you to have it in your house and know exactly how to use it, not just be a pop culture hip thing and then it's gone. I want it to be something you use forever. Like the treadmill that's used as a laundry rack. Right?

See? Yeah. Those health riders that everyone had in the 90s. Yeah. The little elliptical things. Yeah. It turned into patio furniture. Yeah.

I want people like your wife to like, that that's what they think of instead of Advil or something. I want them to be like, okay, where's the Farragone? I've got to release this tension in my shoulders so I can sleep tonight. No, I mean, it's a valid point, right? Like, so, I mean, because I was looking earlier and I sent her like, I sent her something. I'm like, hey, check this thing out. And she goes, what does that do?

It was the mask, right? It was with, with the, you know, the light. And then when you explained with the, you know, the points here, massage just works. Yeah, the vibrations. I was like, I don't know fully yet, but I think that's something that you could use. I really do. And she goes, wow, she goes, what would it all help me with? I go, I don't know yet.

It's just a feeling. And sure enough, man, sure enough. And again, like, that's the thing. These products, you know, they're scientific and they're there to help you to feel better, connect with your mind, connect with your body. Because the majority of the population, you know, aren't these high-level athletes, right? they're not they're everyday people that are stressed and i mean for me like i'll tell you when i go to bed at night my neck like and i i go to bed with my next step and i wake up the same way it's like it's always

it's like right in here and it goes down into the rhomboids and it's just constant yeah it's constant, you know, so a lot of people on this planet are dealing with that every day. And those types of pains are annoying. They, you know, and it, you know, it can be debilitating at times. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert, because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about. about our ingredients at good to know facts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage

ingredients. Visit good to know facts.org. Pain is the, I tell people this, pain is the main reason I created there again, is to relieve pain. If I, it wouldn't be what it is today if I wasn't experiencing daily pain because it got so bad to your point that I was like there has to be something to fix this and I'm not going to be able to sleep without it. So the blessing and the curse was that I had pain, but you're touching on such an important part that everyone experiences pain at some point. I say this a lot in groups and stuff. Raise your hand if you have a thing. My thing's my neck. My thing's my low back. My thing's my feet. They kill me. We all have a thing. That's where pain manifests itself.

and to be able to have something that you can control, that you know where it is, you know how to use it, and you know the expected outcome, that thought process is behavior change. So we're just trying to change behavior, and pain drives a lot of our behavior change. Where you sit, how you move,

and to be able to understand that I love your pulling this out of me, Therigan is actually for pain. Athletes use it to get rid of lactic acid burn. I don't know if anyone's listening to this, you get the lactic acid burn in your forearms or your biceps or something. Put therrigan on it. It'll go away in seconds. So it is,

it is, it was, it was innovated and manifested through pain. And it's still one of the main things. I've, I've had people come to me and tell me stories. Man, I had this thing and I did this and it went away.

Thank you so much. It's the best thing ever. When you're in pain, you'll do anything. For sure. And here's, here's the thing, man.

This is what I want the audience really, key in on and I want to edify you in this right every single day somebody's going through something that really really sucks it hurts emotionally you can hurt physically and a lot of times we find ourselves in this why me what is the good part about this how could this be here to serve me without that day without that accident there is not this product and this this global wellness company help healing the world i i mean a I'm sorry. That was, like you said, it was created to help pain.

Like you took your story, you took your pain, you took your accident, and you gave to the world. It served you. Yeah. Had a lot of help. Yeah, man. And that's what I want the audience to really key in on, right? Because there's somebody listening right now. And a lot of times we can get into that mode or me.

Like, oh, this really sucks. like, you know, this is how, why is this happening to me? If you would have taken that route, you wouldn't be where you're at today. Like, how can I, how can I impact the change in my body? How can I do this? And it all starts with this amazing thing called curiosity, that moment where you're sitting there and you're putting your arm on that thing while you're waiting to get treatment. And they're like, wow, wait a second.

What is this? And it felt better, right? And so from that point on, you built this out with a Makita drill and a bent blade and a towel taped around. You started with what you had and you built from there. And I commend you for it, man. Like that, that right there is taking your pain and turning it into somebody else's roadmap for recovery. Appreciate that. I believe that when the darker it gets, the easier it is to find the level.

light in the room. So sometimes it gets dark. But the darker it is, the easier it is to find that little crack of light that comes through somewhere and then you just be lying to there. It makes it sound simple. That's really good. That's good, man. I've never heard that one. I like that. I like that. It makes sense, right? It makes a lot of sense. So I just want to thank you so much for coming on today, man. It's been so nice to meet you and talk to you and learn about you. personally and how Therobody got started and just kind of the trajectory you guys are all you're going on too you guys clearly have your customers in mind the public in mind when you're building out your products you're not building gimmicks you're building things that can actually

help people so you know from a consumer thank you and uh to the audience go check out Therobody go check out my guy go check out his products and um you know this this this episode is not a about selling products. This is about providing you with the information that you need to go make an educated decision for your wellness. And I think this is an obvious choice. So, thank you all so much. Until next time, stay determined. and delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you.

Like tea time you. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. Said you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you.

We'll take the laundry. Rince. It's time to be great.