Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - Girl Climber: Emily Harrington’s Ascent Beyond Limits

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

In this gripping episode of The Determined Society, host Shawn French sits down with Emily Harrington — world-renowned professional climber, mother, and IMAX documentary star of Girl Climber.Emily opens up about the physical and emotional peaks behind her record-breaking climbs, including her free ascent of El Capitan, balancing motherhood, and the deep human lessons that come with facing fear thousands of feet in the air.What makes Emily’s story so powerful isn’t just the scale of her climbs — it’s the honesty behind them. She shares how fear still finds her on every wall, how she’s learned to trust her gear, her partners, and herself, and how failure is not the enemy but the environment climbers live in.Together, she and Shawn explore the psychology of resilience, the beauty of imperfection, and the parallels between climbing and life — from battling self-doubt to finding meaning beyond the summit.The conversation also touches on her marriage to fellow climber and guide Adrian Ballinger, her late mentor Hilaree Nelson, and her deep love for Ecuador, where she and Adrian were married. Between discussions of altitude, family, and fear, Emily paints a portrait of determination that transcends sport.If you’ve ever faced something that scared you, doubted your own strength, or wondered what’s left after achieving the impossible — this one’s for you.Key Takeaways-Fear doesn’t disappear — it evolves. Even pros feel it at the edge.-Failure isn’t the opposite of success; it’s the path to mastery.-Parenthood and adventure aren’t mutually exclusive — both require endurance and grace.-The real summit isn’t the wall, it’s who you become climbing it.-Vulnerability is strength; perfection is a myth.-Gratitude and perspective are the antidotes to burnout.Connect with me :https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGAEmily Harringtonhttps://www.instagram.com/emilyaharrington/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

People don't often realize that rock climbing is just all about failure. We get so good at failing because essentially all we do is fall really is just kind of about the struggle and it's about the failure. And we get really good at that. We're all climbing some type of mountain in our life, aren't we, Emily? Just some of us are doing it figuratively. You're literally climbing freaking mountains. Another cool and kind of unique part of the film is the highlighting of partnership and the highlighting of the support. You have to have someone on the other end of that rope.

And so they're literally holding your life in their hands. Like you need someone up there that you trust, that has the skills that you do, that kind of knows you and knows how you operate. I just had the best team ever to support me. And I think that that's like this huge part of what made it all happen for me. Hey, everybody. I got Emily Harrington with me here right now. And this girl is an absolute badass. She has a documentary come out in IMAX called Girl.

climber. And let me tell you, I had the opportunity to sneak peek this bad boy. I was sitting on the edge of my seat, almost having anxiety of what she was able to do and the things that she does in her life. We have a true badass again on our show. And quite honestly, guys, we talk about the determined society and determination being the brand. Well, she's the epitome of it. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. I'm excited too, man. This has been a long time coming. and we've been back and forth with our schedules, and we're here now, though. We're here.

We're doing it. We're here. Your documentary, and again, I know it's coming out, and we don't want to give a lot of spoilers, right? But literally riveting. And the thing that I enjoyed most about your story was your openness into who you are

and the things that you struggled with and the fight to achieve what you have. achieved, I just, I want to edify you there really quickly because you really inspired me. My wife watched this documentary with me and so did my 11 year old son. And they hold very high respect for you. I thought you should know that. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, that's kind of like the best feedback that you can get.

It is a super vulnerable film. There's a lot of big feelings. And I think people do really, they connect with that side of it because it's not often. been shown in a lot of these like sports documentaries. That's the thing that I really enjoyed though, Emily, is because it was different than everything else. Like we can go and we can watch documentaries on all the flashy, winnable things and moments to be like,

wow, this is really cool. But you touched on such a human element, right? Just from your childhood, the things that you struggled with, the perception of you, even just to the point where like,

hey, this is mostly it's a guys club. Right. And you have fought through that to show girls everywhere, women, everywhere that no matter what the goal is, that they can achieve it as long as they put in the work and they are intentional when they do it. And so it was just, it was an awesome, awesome film. Thank you so much. Yeah. I really appreciate that. Absolutely. How much it for you do? I know. I feel like I've, I felt like I've experienced it with you, right? That whole hour in 32 minutes or whatever, I'm like, yeah, we're besties now. I know her.

Like I get this. Like I'm feeling your whole journey, the emotion of it. And again, I'm going to work really hard not to, you know, spoil this for people. But I think that and I know that once it's out and people actually consume it and watch it, they're going to know exactly what I'm talking about. But I have a question for you because it's something that, you know, for me is one of, it's very easy for me. And it may not have always been that way.

but man, you love with such vulnerability and you're putting it out there. Was that easy for you? Or was there like a moment where you're like, man, I don't know if I want to share this? You know, it's a question I get a lot. And I think it's interesting because it wasn't difficult because I, the filmmaker, my friend, John Glassberg,

he was like one of my best friends. And so we just been through so much together. And so to me, it was like, I was just being vulnerable in front of this, person who I trusted. And, you know, I was just being me. I was really present and involved in the project. And also, you know, when someone's pointing a camera in your face, especially like when

you're climbing, what's going through your mind is not like, oh, someday this is going to be on like an IMAX screen. Like nobody thinks that. I mean, I knew that John had like a dream of making a future doc. But like we all have dreams, right? Like oftentimes they don't pan out. Like, you know, in my mind, I was like, oh, this could be like a little YouTube short for one of my sponsors. But yeah, I don't really have that much of an issue with it.

I also think, like, in society, it's generally a little bit more accepted for women to show emotion and to be vulnerable and stuff like that. I hope that that's changing now. But, yeah, I didn't have quite as many hangups as people might have assumed. Yeah, I was just kind of being me. It was very raw. I mean, there's times where I'm like, I'm sitting there because we watched it, you know, in our bed. I'm like, the anxiety that I had. I'm afraid of heights.

I don't think there's any secret. People I listen to my show, I'm like, if I'm on a sixth floor of a condo, my kids are like, look, I'm like, hey, get back. Like, hey, come here. Like, I'm like, hey, why don't you step back a little bit? But to see the things that you do is just, I, it's mind blowing to me to be. quite honest. Yeah. I mean, I think most people, a lot of people have that reaction.

I think the interesting thing is like, I also have that experience when I'm dealing with exposure. Like, I don't like standing on edges. I don't like being on the edge of L cap without a rope on. Like, I totally get the like weird, like, anxiety, exposure feeling. I think when I'm like facing the wall and actually on the wall, it, for some reason, it's a different experience for me. And because I'm just so accustomed to like climbing and the feeling of climbing and having

control, it doesn't affect me as much. But I, I too have that like fear of exposure and that fear of height. And like, if I think too much about it, then I can like get overwhelmed by like that very human fear. Like humans aren't really, we're supposed to have that response when we're high up. Like it's your brain telling you that there's like something dangerous. happening and you should like take a step back. So I too have that reaction. And I think that's also why the film is so relatable to people is I talk a lot about how how scary it is up there and how

afraid I am. And I think a lot of people might think that I'm not afraid and that I just like don't even think about it. But I do quite often actually. I mean, you know, it's like one of those things like you mentioned, you know, when you're facing the wall, you know, you're kind of desensitized because you're looking at the wall and you're actively engaged. right but when you get up it's a little bit different you're like okay I don't want to be a I want to be at the edge of this without a rope how much of it and some of the things that I guess I'm just going to come flat out and ask you because some of the things that I was going through like well how do they know that rope is strong like if she falls on a certain pitch like how do we know

this is going to how does she know that this is going to hold her you know it's the same It's the same reason you know that your airplane isn't going to fall out of the sky. Like you don't know exactly why, but it doesn't. And you trust the system. Like, I mean, these things have been tested and rated and they go through like massive testing and they can hold far more than body weight, far more loads than like a person falling. I've actually like hauled someone's van out of a ditch using a climbing rope. You have?

Yeah. Yeah. That was actually like a very visual example of how strong the ropes are. Like I just watched it like stretch, stretch, stretch, stretch. And then like eventually the van started moving. And I was like, wow, that was really impressive. That's wild, man. That's crazy.

So we have a lot of faith in our equipment. Yeah, we have like a ton of faith in our equipment. They're tested a lot. And like it's like above and beyond, you know, like modern equipment, modern technology. It's just like any other sport. Like it is very, very bomber. Well, yeah, absolutely. It's great support, right?

You got to trust your technology. But the other thing that I really enjoyed about the doc is your amount of support from human beings. Your support in your climb of Lcap, he said something, man, that, I mean, of course, that you know, most people know who he is. But he said something to you on your first try. You said, I'm giving it all I can right now. And he goes, but are you? like it feels kind of worky to me and then he's like of course you can you just get in engage

get in and engage and I stopped the video I go Bobby did you hear that my son like did you did you pick up on that and he goes no I go I rewound it like five different times that was such an impactful point for me and it brought me in even further awesome yeah I mean I think that another cool and kind of unique part of the film is the the highlighting of partnership and the highlighting of the support. Climbing can seem like such an individual sport because you just see one person on the wall. But especially for me, I'm a free climber, so I use a rope and I use protection. You have to have someone on the other end of that rope. And so they're literally holding your life in their hands.

But then also there is that like emotional side of things. and that can be so, so crucial with a project like that. Like you need someone up there that you trust, that has the skills that you do, that kind of knows you and knows how you operate. And for me, I just had like the best team ever to support me. And I think that that's like this huge part of what made it all happen for me

was their emotional support more than anything. Yeah. And you can see that in the film. I mean, really. and you can see how it works into your life. I mean, heck, when you went on that first climb in Nepal, like that's where you met your husband. Yeah.

Right? Like, that was really cool. Yeah, we met on Mount Everest, which was crazy and totally changed my life. And yeah, that was like one of the most important turning points of my life, not because it was Mount Everest particularly, but because I met and connected with these people who turned out to be super-influenced.

in my life, one being Adrian, my now husband, and the other being Hillary Nelson, who was just such a mentor to me throughout my career. Yeah. She passed away, correct? Is she the one that passed away? Yeah. She, yep, she passed away in an accident in 2022 on a mountain called Monaslu, which is the eighth tallest mountain in the world. But she was like so important to me, like, as a woman and as a mother and, you know, as a professional athlete in this world, like being a woman and wanting to like continue my career past motherhood. She just had a huge impact on me and I think, you know, countless other men and women.

Well, it was really nice to see how your friendship and your connection evolved, you know, through that film. You know, she was very open about, you know, the early goings. And then like, again, I don't want to ruin it. So I'm being kind of, you know, cryptic here. A little vague, yeah. You just see that, yeah, very vague. But listen to the audience, the audience like, hey,

and this is by design, I can't be too direct. Just to see that and watch that unfold was absolutely beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, it was a, we had an amazing, amazing friendship. Yeah, so you met your husband on Mount Everest and you guys climbed Cote the Poxi together in Ecuador and got married in Ecuador. And my wife is from Ecuador and I was just there in July for the very first time. Oh, awesome. We love Ecuador. It's maybe my favorite country.

Mine too. So many friends there. My husband owns a guide company that they guide mountains all over the world, including Mount Everest, and the majority of the international guides are from Ecuador, because they just, as you probably know, they have such a deep mountain culture, and they're incredibly talented. And it's just, yeah, we got married there because we both love it so, so much. And we did. We climbed code apoxy. I think I've climbed code apoxy. I've climbed code epoxy twice, attempted three times and I've skied it twice. So have you, have you done it? No. So, you know, so what I wasn't expecting, all right? So when we got to Ecuador, and again,

my favorite country as well, if I had the opportunity to live there, I actually probably would live there. It is just a different culture. People are incredible. People are incredible. The food's cleaner and I mean just everything tastes better but but we we started going on little things we went to the middle of the earth and we went to some volcanic spas which was incredible and the one thing that I wasn't anticipating is the amount of time in a car to get anywhere and it was very you know the roads or not yeah we were in quito yeah that's where my wife's from so you know we you know I wasn't by by the time that we were supposed to Dakota poxie I looked at my wife I go I can't do another two hour trip I just I was like babe

we're coming back but I'm not doing this because I'm going to sleep the whole way and I just don't you know I didn't want to do it but uh you know my wife said well that's the best part of equitable like you we have to go I'm like well cool we'll go next time it's so amazing I highly recommend it I highly recommend climbing it because like it's kind of a it's kind of like an intro level peak for like high altitude. And it's just like stunningly beautiful. I like to call going to Ecuador like expedition light because you're still like trying hard and doing hard things and at altitude. So it's a little painful. But then you get to stay in these really amazing like haciendas and little huts and the food is really good and it's all very comfortable and you're not sleeping in a tent.

And so it's just like this really nice mix of like you're kind of suffering on the mountain. But then you get to go and have a little bit more comfort and luxury. It's just like the best combination ever and I would continue going back forever, whereas other things I'm less into now. Yeah, no, absolutely. Sometimes you do things, you're like, okay, that was great, but I'm done. But Edward was like one of those things where just the energy there. And I think it's because, I mean, I'm literally, you know, I can't remember what the place was called, but it was this volcanic spa. It was in the middle of a volcano. you know, and I'm sitting there looking at the Andes Mountains and the cloud, you know, was very overcast and drizzling the whole day. And I'm laying in this spot, like in 100 degree

water. And I'm like, looking all around me. And I'm like, man, if this doesn't connect you, there's got to be something wrong with you. Because it was just incredible. And then coming home, I'm like, damn it, I want to go back. I want to go back. I know. I have the same feeling. Yeah, we have to get back to Ecuador. I think we're, yeah, I want to go to the Galapagos too, because that's supposed to be amazing. Our friend lives in the Galapagos. She's a marine biologist. And she's a very, very good one and a very, I guess you would call popular, a world-renowned one. And the next trip is, you know, rumored to be the Galapagos. And I would love to go there. Like, that is the most beautiful. I've heard it amazing things. And then when I search pictures on it, I was like, there's so much beauty in Equipa. And that, and that are just so nice. I know. It's the best. I love it. Yeah. You have plans to go back anytime soon?

Well, yeah. We're actually, our friends who are from Ecuador are really encouraging us to go back next summer, or next, I guess it's like August for the Galapagos. Yeah. And our son will be three and a half, so he'll kind of be at the age where he can like enjoy the animals and stuff. So they're really encouraging us to go back. They also really want us to just send our kid to Ecuador for like months to just. spend time with them when he's a little bit older. And I'm like super, I'm super down with that as well. You're down with that. I don't know if I can last more than a week without my kids. I know. It's hard.

It's really hard. Yep. It is hard. How old are your kids? I was being a mom. Oh, so my kids, okay. I have a 11-year-old son who's all, Halloween, he turns 12.

And I have a 9-year-old daughter and a 6-year-old daughter. That's almost seven. Oh, wow. I bet it's fun. I'm in it. You're in it. It's fun. I'm in it big time, Emily, but here's the thing.

Every morning with my daughters is like breaking up World War III. They just battling. Unrelenting. Unrelenting. She sat on my bed when I was trying to make it. I'm like, okay, did you just ask her to move? Like, what's the problem here? But it's a lot of fun, but it is, man.

It's like one of those things where you're constantly managing different personalities and, you know, but there's no better a gift than to be. be a parent. And so, you know, you've been a parent for almost, you know, for three years now, right? So how's motherhood for you? It's so fun. Honestly, it's been so fun. Our son is, he'll be three end of November. And it's, yeah, I mean, it's been, you know, more positives than negatives. Obviously, it's hard. There are hard moments, especially right now, because he's just, he has a lot of feelings, but he can't really express what, like, why he's having those feelings. Like this morning he asked me to help him stop crying.

I was like, I don't know how to help you stop crying, but I'm so sorry. It's so sweet. But, you know, he's just like got a lot going on and he's struggling to like express it and resolve it. And so it's so fun. I think my husband and I, we definitely like, we use our like climbing experience and our expedition experience and we kind of apply it to parenthood. So it is like, it is like a big adventure.

It is a big expedition. It is like a lot of things go wrong. There's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of dynamics that you can't really control. And you're oftentimes like tired and out of your element. But you know, we recognize that every phase is kind of like temporary. And so we just try to enjoy the one we're in. And then, you know, some things get better.

Some things get worse. It's a little bit of a roller coaster. But it's been just so awesome. And this age is like, I mean, it keeps. saying every age is like my favorite age, but right now it's just been, it's just been so fun to watch him kind of like evolve and turn into a human and his own, his own person. It's, it's so cool. My favorite age for my son was three. Okay, cool. That's what people say. I mean, our son is such a little boy. He's like, he's just like super into motorcycles and trucks and

dinosaurs and he loves climbing and surfing and all. He's like pretending to do all the things. It's super, it's super, super fun. Well, you know, his mom and dad climbed mountains and shit, you know, like rock climb. Yeah, and we bring him rock climbing and we bring him skiing. So he kind of like understands,

he understands all of it. He understands that's what we do. And he wants to do it as well. And it's just, it's been really cool to watch. That's really awesome. Going back to, you know, when he said,

can you help me stop crying? My wife, I don't know where she heard about it if she invented it on her own this idea but our daughters they get super emotional and they can't shut it off and so one day and i looked at my wife like what are you asking them this for she goes to my youngest honey do you need a hug yeah that's the trigger for my youngest now it's like when she's having an absolute melt-on baby do you need a hug it's done it stops immediately And I looked at my wife, like she had three heads. And it actually works.

So I guess, you know, I just have to listen to her as she knows best. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, I think they just want to feel safe. And yeah, that's kind of how our son is too. He just wants to like be held and be cuddled. And he also asks if he can cuddle. He says, can you cuddle me? So sweet.

I love that. I love that. Like I said, my youngest is six. And my daughter or my other daughter, she's nine every night. Can you cuddle us for a little bit? Can you? Yeah. And then, you know, I'm like, okay, I'll come and then and then the little one we got,

well, you cuddled me last night, so I don't want to make Mama feel bad. She goes, I have an idea and she'll do any, mini, mini, miny mo, but completely skew it to where my wife wins. And those are the nights that, like, those are the nights that I need the cuddles, right? Because I need them at times too. I'm like, what the heck, man? Like, I wanted to be the one to put you down. Last night, my wife won the any, mini, mini, money mo.

I go, I'm traveling Thursday, Friday. and I'm coming back Saturday. She doesn't get to win this. I'm cuddling you tonight. You don't have a choice or you can sleep on the porch. We have the same exact thing going on in our house. That's awesome. Every night, our son asked if I can put him to bed,

if I could do bedtime. And my husband's like, no, I'm leaving. I'm putting you to bed. Oh, what a good dad. What a good dad. It's awesome. What do you guys have coming up? You have any adventures or any projects coming up that you can talk about?

Yeah, of course. So, yeah, rock climbing is really cool in that I can kind of cater it to, you know, the logistics of our life. And that is like having a toddler right now, having a family. So I'm still climbing a ton. I'm training really hard. And honestly, I'm like in some disciplines, I'm performing just as well now as I did when I was like 18 years old, which is really exciting and cool. So I have a lot of like little, I call them mini projects like things like little trips that I can places I can go and try like a hard route, hard for me and try to complete it within two to three weeks.

And I just did that this past spring in Spain. Actually my husband was guiding Mount Everest during the time. So I was with our O'Pair and our son. And so I like brought it brought him to Spain and like worked on this project and ended up completing it on the last day. And that was really awesome and exciting. And then I did another little little. project in Idaho this summer. We like we live out of our van sometimes and so we did a little van trip to Idaho and I did another little project there and then we're actually about to go to

Kentucky here in two weeks which has like some of the best climbing in the U.S. It's a sandstone climbing area called the Red River Gorge. Super unique like part of the country for us to go to but like one of the most amazing places and so we're going to go there for two weeks and I'll have like another little project that I'm trying to complete. Actually, something I've tried for several years before, like probably nine years ago I was trying this route. So I kind of want to see if I can do it this year. But yeah, we'll see.

So yeah, we're doing like a lot of like smaller trips, little projects. It's been really fun, super motivating for me. I don't have anything like super big right now because of the film stuff. I've just been doing a lot of PR and a lot of film premieres. it's just hard to do something like go to Yosemite. Yosemite is just like such an intense place to be. We went last year and I was able to climb a route that I'm really proud of, but not on L-CAP. I'm still kind of waiting to go back to L-CAP.

It'll be big when I, it'll be exciting when I do, but I'm a little bit like timid about it at the moment. It's just committing and scary. But I get that, right? because I've seen the doc, you know, and, you know, again, don't want to get too into it to ruin it, but the cert, like every pitch was different. And seeing you,

I think it was A5. Yeah. Is that what it's called? Yeah. I just, I don't understand how a human body can do what you did. That, no, it's impressive.

Thank you. I mean, it's the whole like 10,000 hours. theory, right? Like, I've just been basically working towards that since I was 10 years old. Yeah, it's pretty intense. It's pretty intense. Every time you would go to get the chalk, I'd be like, oh my God, what are you doing? Don't, no, no, don't take your hands off of it. I'm like, freaking out. Like, what is she doing? You need those hands, Emily. You need both. We need the chalk. I bet. Yeah. No, it was just, it was really good to see the differences. and this is why I was so excited to have you on

because you did something so big and you've been so successful in your career even as a young climber, you know, the indoor rock climbing and then now to a completely different avenue from what you were doing. But what I really enjoyed was the adversity aspect and the overcoming of the adversity in that specific project. And I think a lot of times where people get stuck

is when things get really hard at something once or twice and they're like, I'm done. I'm going to abandon that. I'm not going to do it. Where here you are going through injuries, self-doubt, and, you know, getting strong to a point where you could go back and, you know, and do that and finish it. I mean, it was just, it was inspirational to see someone go through everything like that

and still push and still stay focus on. Have you always been like that? Or is it something that as you've gotten older, you know, a bigger aspect of that shows itself because to me it looks natural. I think it's a bit of both. I think I was born with some level of tenacity in that I didn't give up very easily.

And so that's obviously like a valuable in an elite athlete. And then I think people don't often realize that like rock climbing is just all about failure. Like we get so good at failing because essentially all we do is fall. and all we do is fail. And then we like work, work, work, work to try to kind of solve the puzzle and figure out the way up.

And then when we do, it's kind of like, okay, cool, I did that. Now I'm going to find something else to do. So it really is just kind of about the struggle and it's about the failure. And we get really good at that. Like, I think that that's why climbing is such a cool sport. It teaches you so much. And I suppose, you know, any sort of athletic endeavor. But in particular, like, climbing is about being in the space of.

failure. It's about having something that you're working towards. And most often, you're not doing it. Like, I have a long list of climbs that I haven't completed that I'd like to complete someday. You know, and I always think about like, especially with rock climbing, it's like the rock is always going to be there. Like, it's not going anywhere. So you can always go back to it. And I really like that mentality with something, with having a goal. It's like, it requires a lot of patience. So you kind of for like, okay, maybe I'm not going to do it today. Maybe I'm not going to do it tomorrow. Maybe I'm not going to do it on this trip.

But it's always going to be here and I can always come back to it. And I've always really liked and appreciated that mentality. And I think it's enabled me to kind of sit in that space of failing and struggling and not kind of capitulate. So that's just like not a part of the equation in our brains. We're just kind of like, it's still there. it's still an opportunity to go do it. So you're never kind of like, oh, I'm giving up because it's always, it's always going to be

there. You're always going to have the opportunity to get stronger and go back to it. And I think that that's just a really important attitude to have in a lot of things. That's a great point. And for the audience tuning in, I want you to really think about this, what I'm about to say and reflect on what Emily just said, because people go through life and are so scared to fail. the failure, the F word to them is like embarrassment and it brings this sense of lack of accomplishment

and people are going to laugh at me. But I mean, I didn't rock climb. I played baseball and I always said baseball as a game of failure. Then after learning about you more, both those sports are rooted in failure. Like truly rooted in failure, you're going to fail more times than not.

And for me, they really parallel lines. life, right? Because we go through it for the people that are not athletes and they're not pushing themselves like you are in that avenue, they're pushing in their career. They're pushing as parents or even someone who is single trying to find the partner of their life, right? There's so much disappointment every single day that people have the potential to go through. But what I think is important is to understand and really to subscribe to the theory that this is what's going to make me. Like this moment, this failure, this piece of adversity,

this tragedy is going to serve me in such a way if I allow it to. Yeah, totally. I think that's the attitude shift that can help people a lot with their mental health, for example, just like shifting that perspective. And then also, I think kind of paralleling the fear of failure is the necessity for everything to go right and the necessity for everything to kind of fall into place in the way that you envisioned it. And that also just isn't a realistic expectation for life, especially for me right now, it's like it's not a realistic expectation as a parent either.

Like things just don't go as planned. There's a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of things that we can't control. And I think along with like accepting and learning from our failures is also accepting and understanding that perfect doesn't exist and that we can't control everything. And so you do have to kind of control what you can control and let go of the rest in a way. As scary as that is for some people to do, I think it's a really, really valuable exercise. And I think it can help people a lot with their anxiety and their well-being and like enabling them to sleep at night like me. No, I love it. And you're 100% spot on, right?

I think it's all about perspective and it's all about allowing yourself to be imperfect, I mean, not to seek perfection in an imperfect world. We're all going to fail. And that should excite you in a lot of different ways. So I hear you on that one. But it's hard, right? Because, you know, I get a lot of people reaching out to me and I'm sure you do as well. How do I push through this?

I can't give them the magic bullet, right? But what I can say is like, hey, this moment where you're struggling so much, this is your opportunity. Like this is where you grow. This is where you turn into the badass that you're going to be. You have to embrace these moments because if you're just looking for the win, if you're looking to complete the project, if you're looking for the trophy, how unfulfilling is that, right?

Because once you get the trophy, like a lot of times, where I hit a milestone, I'm thinking, once I get here, this is going to be great for the show, for the platform. Then I get there. I'm like, I miss the chase. I miss the work. I miss the failure. Yeah.

And I think that's why a lot of athletes and people who have these like really big goals. I mean, first of all, if it wasn't hard, if it was easy, like, it wouldn't be meaningful. So it kind of like, kind of aspiring to the end or the outcome is, of course, it's a very natural thing. to do. But then oftentimes, like, if there's no struggle, then it's a little bit anticlimactic and you kind of like left unfulfilled. But at the same time, if you have this really long, drawn out struggle and you get to the finish line, like for me with the film, when I finally kind of like, you know, made it happen, I had this period of time where I was like incredibly lost and felt empty and didn't know what to do next and didn't have any motivation and like

didn't want to climb but didn't know what else to do without climbing. So it was just like this very like empty feeling. And I think that is also something that we should be aware of. It's like something that happens. It happens to people when they kind of reach the finish line of something. It's not like I think it's the awareness that like doing the thing, achieving the goal is not going to like somehow be a magic bullet to make you happy and to like improve your life dramatically. Like it's not about that. It's about kind of like what you learn in the process. And yeah,

expecting like all the sudden, you know, you're totally satisfied. You're never going to need to chase or like pursue anything again is a, it's just kind of a bit false. And so I think it's just something to be aware of. Like doing a thing is not going to help you reach like enlightenment or ultimate happiness. And so the emphasis really should be on the process to getting there.

but that's what makes people successful. It's just exactly what you chronicled and what you just talked about. Because, you know, the gift is in the process. You know, and everybody talks about, you know, marry the process and divorce the result. It's very hard to do because we live in a result-driven society. And so the trick is to figure out what you love about the process,

what you love about the work, because that's what's going to build you, right? And I can look at, we hit a milestone last November that I was blown away by. I'm like, wow, this is it. Next day I woke up so down. Yeah. So down. I'm like, what now?

And I'm thinking, what do you mean what now? Sean, like there's so much more to go. In that milestone we hit last year in November, for the first 11 months of the year, we do it in a month now. Yeah. I mean, like, but I went back to the drawing board, right? And I said, okay, that's neat, that's cool. But what did I love about it?

And it was the process. It was the work. It was the focus, the clarity and the conversations like this that I got fully immersed in. I got to research the people. I got to be included in screening films. Like, I love that process. So I just made it about that every single day. And when I get on the mic and I'm having the conversation, that's game time.

I've already done the work. That's what I enjoy. Totally. Yeah. And I'm not trying to say that, obviously, we're not trying to say that milestones aren't important or goals aren't important. Right. Having the outcome is important.

Like, I do care about success. I'm not saying that like, oh, I just love failing all the time and never being successful. No, I don't think anybody's taking that. No, no, no. If they're going with that context, they haven't listened to this whole episode. I can tell you that much right now. Totally. But no, I'm with you.

I'm with you. Like, I love winning. Yeah. Totally. You love having wins. But it's got to be hard. You have to be able to work for it. And that's the beauty of it. Yeah. And I think it's just like it's a really like fortunate position to be in too. It's like, oh, wow, I get to go out and like, you know, try hard every day and fight and like think really deeply about this thing that I love so much. That is just such a fortunate position to be in. And so I think also recognizing that like, yeah, it's not perfect. Yeah, it's hard. It's uncomfortable. I struggle. But also like I get to do this. and this is awesome. We're all climbing some type of mountain in our life, aren't we, Emily? Just some of us are doing it figuratively. You're literally climbing freaking mountains.

It's amazing to me. Like I really enjoyed watching it, doing more background on you, watching what you're doing. Because, I mean, quite honestly, like I said, the things that you're able to do on a rock, most people can't do that on the ground. And it is just, it is, fascinating thing, but I also look at the early childhood aspect of it, right?

What 12-year-old girl once wrote for Chris? I mean, like, really, like, you know, they want, you know, back then, what was it, Nintendo for me? I'm a 78 maybe, so I was playing Nintendo, Super Nintendo, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I was like a 90s kid. I don't know what we wanted, like gel pens. Oh, those are cool. I still want gel pens.

Those things are dope. Those are cool, man. It was really cool. You know, I have this question, now that we're running down to the, you know, to the end of the interview, I can ask this question now because my wife is very curious. And I have to, she said, you better ask her this question. Where does the puppy go when you're climbing? Like, where, like, who's, cat? She's a dog lover, man.

I'm telling you, she's like, where's, where's the puppy? Does it? It doesn't climb with her, doesn't? I'm like, God, no. No, she doesn't. So cat is like kind of the undercover. star of the movie, I think. Her name is cat, like C-A-T, but she's a dog. And she's a little rescue pup that we got. She's almost nine now. But we love her so much. She's our first baby. She's a

catahoola pit. Yeah, she's super cool. She's a great dog. She's like one of those dogs that can like sleep all day or she can run 20 miles. Like it doesn't really matter. She's totally happy doing both. And it's perfect for our lives because to answer your question, Um, when we go climbing, if we're going on like a big trip, we have a friend who is like super amazing and it's basically like her second home. He has a dog. And oftentimes it's like it's not like with kids. I feel like if you have one dog like two dogs doesn't really add that much. It's like not that big of a deal. They can like play together. Right. Pretty low maintenance. Um, so she goes to his house for when we go on like really big long expeditions like for going to like Kyrgyzstan or something like that. Um, she'll go to his house. Um. Um. She'll go to his house. Um. Um. Um. And then when we're in Yosemite, actually, because she is like, she's mega chill. And we have a van. We have like a very nice, like, the van was in the film. It's like got a lot of room.

We just would park it in the shade, turn on all the fans, leave some water. And like she would just literally sleep in the front seat all day and wait for us to come home. And like to come back from climbing. And it was so great. It was always like a little bit of a stress in our brains. like, like, cats in the van. We got to like get back at a reasonable time, you know. But she, she just does so great.

Obviously, with a child, we can't do that. No. Oh, God. So now we have like a nanny and another person that hangs out with our kid when we're like on the wall or doing longer days. And then cat benefits from that because she's, you know, she's hanging out with that person as well. So.

Yeah. That's what we do with her. brother. Yeah, exactly. Well. That's cool. Yeah. They're a little like love hate at the moment. He's just like super, he's just super aggressive with her sometimes. Like he just doesn't get it.

Like he loves her and he's so curious about her. But he's like, he like grabs her face. And she's so tolerant. She's amazing with him. But there, you know, we've definitely had to like use some discipline with that because he can get a little rough. My six-year-old is that way with our two dogs and they're little dogs. And, you know, the older one, he's eight or nine, I'm like, don't grab him like that.

Like, you can't do that, you know, because, you know, again, like, even with, you know, bigger dogs, like at somebody's house, you just have to be careful. You're like, you can't go up to a dog like that and just grab them. That's the thing. Our son's not afraid of dogs because we have a very tolerant dog who, like, accepts, you know, all of the torment. And we're just trying to explain to him, like, not all dogs are like that. Yeah.

he'll figure it out. He'll figure it out. They just get super, they're excitable. But, no, I'm really excited for you. And I thank you so much for coming on the show and talking about your documentary and giving the audience some insight into you. And we talked about a lot of amazing things today. And I encourage the audience to go and watch this documentary in IMAX when it comes out. And I don't think they'll be disappointed. So thank you again, Emily. You were absolutely incredible and you're inspirational and, you know, we live in a world that can put limits on what women can do and you are literally shattering those limits. So I appreciate that and I hope the rest of the world does and rushes out there to see what you've done.

Thank you so much. Well, I had a great, I had a great time during this conversation. So thanks for having me. Me too, Emily. Me too. Thanks again. And for the audience, go check out Emily Harrington on Instagram. Her handle will be in the show notes and learn more about her and follow her along on her adventures, her husband's adventures, and watch that little boy grow up and watch him be the next person climbing some big mountains in a very, very short time. But really, share this episode with somebody you know, love and trust and go watch the damn documentary. And until next time, stay determined.