Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - How Jo Weatherford Rewired Her Brain After Trauma and Addiction

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Jo Weatherford opens up about the trauma that shaped her early life and how it led her down a path of addiction and self-destruction. From the adult modeling industry to relapse and finally radical healing, her story is raw, real, and powerful. This conversation is about owning your story, and rewriting it with strength. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Or even T-time, T-time, T-time, T-time U. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. You molested as a child. How old were you? I was four. Yeah. You know, not surprisingly went into the adult industry as a model. Our unconscious programming will dictate our life, which is where it's so important that we do the work.

As a little girl, I developed this belief that, A, my worth is my body, that I am just here to please men in that way. And I also got my wires crossed that being sexually exploited was connection. And this is an important thing when it comes to healing. Like, knowledge doesn't change behavior. Like, I didn't know how to work through my sexual shame. None of that had happened yet, but at least a seed was planted. Sure, French, what else? Spire me.

I put my all and everything I'm doing. Up until it's done, I'm me for the entirety. I'm putting an overtime. I'll be working. Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time. I confirmed it. A whole society determined.

Determin. What's up, everybody. Welcome back to another episode. I am your host, Sean French, and today I have with me an amazing human being. But before I get to her, please hit subscribe on YouTube, follow on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and let us know what you think. And more than anything, share the show with somebody you know, love and trust that would really need to hear this message.

So today I have with me an expat, a TEDx speaker, former Playboy model, the amazing Joe Weatherford. What's up? Oh, I'm so glad to be here. I can't believe you're here. I can't either. Dude, we got connected on Instagram because you made a post and I can't remember what the message was. But I was like, dude, like that's some good ass energy.

I want to connect with her. I just hit the like button and said, hey, great message or something. And then what, six months later, here you are. It's so awesome how that works, isn't it? It's nuts, isn't it? Yeah. Social media can be good. It can be a great thing.

And it can be wholesome. Absolutely. Right? So tell the audience that may not know. who you are, give them a little bit of your background, some of the things that you've gone through and what has made you the powerful woman you are now. She's like so many things.

So many. So much time do we have? Well, it's funny because I was just thinking about it. It's like we need just enough trauma to be interesting. You know, you don't want too much, but you don't want to be too like spoils. You're dropping bombs already, dude. Here you go.

Just right into it. I love it. just amount, you know, to be fun, right? So, you know, and I had, I had the things. The molest it is a little girl and then, you know, not surprisingly went into the adult industry as a model, left to that, went to rehab, went to graduate school, became a counseling professor. Yes. It's so crazy. Yeah. I mean, life is just taking me so many great places. And then I ended up leaving the university and running a kids martial arts program. My ex and I had a big martial arts school.

Really? Yes. Are you a black belt? Yes. Like in what? Well, so it was taekwondo. Okay. And moitai.

Okay. And then Krov. And then also Jiu-Jitsu, but I am not a black belt in that. I suck. So you're a black belt and the other three? Yes. So you could literally like disassemble me right now. Yes.

Piece by piece. Like in Krov, forgive. And if I'm wrong. to the audience, I'm not always spot on. But Krav Maga is the one that's usually taught in military for hand-to-hand combat. Is that correct? Yeah, and it's the one, too, if, you know, it's most practical. If you're attacked, you're elbowing your knees, you know, like nobody's going to get into an actual fist fight.

You know, if a woman and try to protect myself, right? And then the Muay Thai is like the Anderson Silva, the knees to the face, right? Yeah, yeah, lots of these, lots of kicks, hardcore. Amazing background. Amazing background. So, okay. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text. But which you do you listen to? Is it, we could buy a house in Tulum? Get optioning those options. We could lose everything.

Or let's do a little research. Get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you. Learn more at finra.org slash trade smart. molested as a child how old were you i was four yeah and you know what's crazy is yesterday i was in the airport and there was a girl in the bathroom and she was probably 10 years old and she had a doll that she was carrying and i saw this 10 year old with this doll and like this little girl has somehow maintained her innocence right and i was like god damn i lost mine so early and it wasn't like a poor me. It was just that juxtaposition. For sure. Where I was like, I'm so glad she has that.

Yeah. Yeah. Or you perceive that she still has it. I'm perceiving. Right? Because we never know, right? We never know. But I'm with you. Chances are she still does have it. Yeah. And I'm like listening to this. And you said four, I I almost lost it. Yeah. Well, I have a six-year-old daughter and an eight-year-old daughter. And I cannot even imagine the type of orange jumpsuit I would be in if someone touched any one of my children, even my son. Yeah. Okay. So like walk me through that.

You were four. I don't go through the whole thing. But like, how do you, I mean, how do you remember? That's like kind of an odd question. But it's like, how did I can't even formulate it because it's, it's shocking to be. Yeah. What do you do with that? What do you do with it?

So as a child, what I did with it is I repressed it. And a lot of times we talk about repression, disqualification. association, all these different terms in psychology as bad things. But thank God I was able to do that, you know, because the four-year-old has no business trying to make sense of that. So I didn't remember it happened to me until I was in rehab, working with a therapist. Okay. Got clean. And then I was like, oh my God, this happened to me. And what's crazy about it is the police actually got involved. Because he did it to another little girl, but she told. Okay. And here's where the story gets really kind of dark for me is I didn't tell. And the fact that I didn't tell, like, plagued me

for a long time. That aspect of my personality that I deserve this, that I'm going to put him ahead of me. I don't want to get him in trouble. So I'm going to hold his shame inside of me. You know, that was so much what led me to my addiction, not just with him, but all my life experiences, because that's what I chose to do with it. And it's so hard because as a four-year-old, you're not consciously thinking about this. No. You're probably thinking at that age, right?

Okay, that's an elder. I'm just going to stay in line here. Yeah. How did that coming to, you know, because you repressed it, right? Yeah. But in the meantime, you went to modeling, right? You went to modeling for Playboy,

and you did some reality TV for them. and then got out went to rehab, right? So how does it all connect for you? How can you make sense of all that? Because you didn't uncover it until you were, you know, healing, right? Well, and that's the thing. Our unconscious programming will dictate our life, which is where it's so important that we do the work

to uncover those stories, those belief systems, because we don't realize it, but it is dictating the course of our future. And so for me, as a little girl, I developed this belief that, A, my worth is my body, that I am just here to please men in that way. And I also got my wires crossed that being sexually exploited was connection. So it was like, that's what would make me special. That's how I connect, you know, and it really, it was a lot to untangle.

But when I finally was like, oh, this happened to me, it started making sense. Now, I still didn't know what to do with it. And this is an important thing when it comes to healing. Like knowledge doesn't change behavior. Like it opened to this window of opportunity for me to go, oh, okay, this is starting to make sense. But I still didn't know how to change. Like I didn't know how to work through my sexual shame.

None of that had happened yet, but at least a seed was planted of, oh, I think this is the origin story. Wow. Wow. And so when you're working through your therapist through, you know, getting sober, like how did the therapist teach you to, walk through and kind of peel back the layers of what happened and and how do you connect it with some of past behavior, you know, mainly, you know, feeling like, you know, giving up your body,

right, or whatever is, is kind of your service or however you put it. Yeah. How did how did the therapist help you work through that to help you understand like, no, no, no. That is that is not where you need to be. Well, it's a great question. And is it? Because I stumbled through it pretty badly. I knew exactly where you were going with it. And the reason I laughed is because, spoiler alert, it was a male therapist who helped me process it. Interesting. And two years later hit on me. So here's this person. Oh, good Lord. No. And I mean, true story, like waited two years because ethically he had to or he could have lost his license.

But then spent all this time helping me believe that my sexuality is not what makes me special and then tried to sleep with me. So he didn't just try to take you out. He like literally tried to sleep with you. It wasn't like he was interested, you know, or approached it the right way. Because, I mean, after a couple years, if he would have asked you or approached you like,

respectful man, would you have had a problem with that? You know, I still, I think when a relationship is formed and there's that level of a power differential, I always think it's wrong. But it wouldn't have caused the damage that it did, which was he sent me an email, like, I want to show you what a real man is. And I was just like, oh, my God.

Who do I trust now? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I already, I was like, men are shit. You know what I mean? And I didn't even consciously think that. But like that, again, was a very strong programming that I had to come to believe. But I didn't even realize.

That's some wild stuff. Right. That's wild. Yeah. Like, like not even. And again, when there's a role established, like you said, the relationship, right yeah he's to help heal and like you were you were here right you know trying to get here like you can't circumvent that that those roles in that relationship yeah it to me that is just a lack of

i don't know what it's just a lack of common sense to be quite honest i mean i'm just going to say it like that's just not cool but i mean it would have been at least a little bit better if he approached you respectfully right like it wouldn't have caused that damage yeah talk to me about that damage Well, I had been sober for a year and a half and I started drinking. And I'm not blaming him for that because I really believe that that relapse was in me. It was already within me. It was coming. It was like it wants to come out and party.

He wants to peek its head. He was the mirror exposed, that which was already there. And it was a perfect excuse. And it was a great one. And I got to run with that story. This thing happened to me. Poor me. This is why I started drinking again because in addiction, that's what we

do. We're always blaming someone else. And so, yeah, he was the perfect scapegoat for that. You know, now me, conscious, sober, a grown woman in my power. I'm like, yeah, I can't believe that guy did that, blah, blah, blah, but I would never, I would never turn myself over to him in the way that I did back then. So from that point when you had that relapse because of that, well, that really, it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. That's what you call it, right? how long was the relapse or how how long did that go for? It was about six years.

It was a good run. So it was a good run. Yeah, I mean, and I was really sick. It was interesting when I did my TED talk, everybody's like, don't read the comments. And of course, what did I do? I read the comments. Yeah.

But a lot of what people were saying is, oh, what did she go through? I bet it wasn't that bad. She could never relate to my story. And it's interesting. Were these men or women? Oh, men and women. Young, old, you know how the haters are.

A lot of victims in the comments action, right? A variety. Sure. But what's fascinating, I get it. You look at me today and you wouldn't know where I come from. And it's like, no, I've been in jail. Multiple suicide attempts. I woke up once chained to a bed in a mental institution in San Francisco,

which if you have to go to a mental institution, San Francisco does not disappoint. Really? Why is that? You know, I mean, just that level of. crazy. It was like, let's go all in. I'm an all in person. You heard it, ladies and gentlemen, if you're going to go all in, get locked up in a mental institution in San Francisco, Bay Area in California. The weather there is better. Yeah, it was beautiful. Pacific Ocean, you don't even need a big bridge. You don't even need, oh, nice view then. I did.

No wonder you like it. So, I mean, but again, I think what, let me speak to the audience really quickly because I think what's great here for you guys listening and watching is I want you to really understand the story that is going on right now coming from a place of power and not victimhood, a place of accountability and storytelling for you guys. You know, whatever you're going through, you're not alone. There's people that have become massive successes like Joe here that have been through some stuff. So continue to listen and see what you can get out of this because, again, you know, like this is all informational. This is good stuff. I love it. I'm not surprised. I knew I knew we'd start going here, you know, get the juice.

is flowing. Okay, so, okay, in San Francisco, right? You, like you said, been in jail multiple times, you've been in facilities. Like, what was the fight back like? Because that had to have, you've had to have displayed an extreme amount of determination in order to rise up out of that type of space. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right, with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at good to know facts.org.

No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit good to know facts.org. Yeah, and I think, too, I'm, so when I did my TED talk, the whole point of it was finding the beauty in addiction. And we all need to know that we can ever. overcome. And so certainly being an alcoholic for most of my life at that level where it was all encompassing. And I like sharing this because yes, if anybody is listening right now and you're

like, oh, I can't get better. Trust me, I was that person. I've worked in addiction recovery for over 13 years and I'm still one of the worst alcoholics I've ever seen. Really? And if I can do it, anyone can do it because I'm not special. Right. What made you the worst? It was all day, every day, you know, DTs, no matter what the consequence was. And I was not one of those people that was in denial. Like to me, denial, I'm like, I don't really believe it. I think you just don't want to change. Right, of course.

So for me, I knew it. I owned it. I was like, I'm really sick. I need help. I was trying. I was going to different rehab facilities. I did the bougie-ass $100,000 one. You know, I did like regular treatment.

I tried everything. I tried AA, and I could not get better. Wow. And finally, what happened was my mom heard about this aversion therapy program, which it was the only one in its country, in the country, and it closed. I'm so sad, but it was gnarly. So you'd go in this little room, and they would inject me with something that caused flu-like symptoms, and then I'd drink a waterglass full of epicac.

So having kids, you know, you would give them like a tablespoon of epicac if they ate something they shouldn't to induce vomiting. Okay, no. Interesting. I'm drinking a water glass full of this. And then I'm just pounding drinks. Like I'm talking 20 full glasses of alcohol and then just vomiting like the exorcist. It was awful. Awful.

So you went through a treatment that created an aversion to what you were addicted to. Yes. And trust me, I didn't think it was going to work because I'm like, I drink and puke all the time. That's a Tuesday. That's a Wednesday for me, guys. That's hump day. Not like this.

I need one for chocolate, I feel like. Yeah, right? It doesn't work for other things. Unfortunately, they tried it for opiates. They tried it with weed, like none of it. Nothing. It works for alcohol, though. So what was the science behind that?

Because, I mean, that's pretty aggressive, right? Well, and yeah. So you're training the brain to not crave it, right? So dopamine, right, is this gnarly little thing that we love that tells us, oh, do that thing, and then you get to fantasize about how good it's going to feel. Yep. You know, and so it kind of reset that. But what they did that I think actually worked was we would do the aversion therapy one day.

And the next day, they did a treatment of prophenol, which is the stuff that Michael Jackson OD'd on is kind of an anesthetic. Yeah. And truth serum. And they'd shoot you up with this and you would do a counseling session with your unconscious. wake up in a different room and then listen back to these tapes. So it was a disassociate? Yes.

Kind of like ketamine. Yes, similar. So you're doing therapy with the unconscious and they're also implanting beliefs. Like I don't drink. I don't crave alcohol. I love that. Yeah. So my brain, for better or worse, it's like my superpower.

It also would almost kill me is I'm very adaptable, right? So I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay, I don't drink. So 13 years ago, I do this thing. I've never wanted to drink since ever. Interesting. That's wild.

Right? That's wild. Yeah. Because, you know, when, you know, and there's a lot of people that listen to the show, they're probably on health journeys or they're entrepreneurs or athletes or whatever. And a lot of times when we're trying to create new habits, right? We're trying to ditch old ones. Instead of don't eat that, it's like, I don't eat that.

I don't eat sweets, right? And so kind of what you're saying is you went through that same kind of therapy. therapy, like, I don't drink alcohol. I don't crave alcohol. It is a good way to rewire your brain. I don't know if it works for chocolate or not because, sorry, spoiler, guys, I still love chocolate, you know. But, but again, I, you know, for extended period of times, I can tell myself, this does not serve me. Yeah. But then one night, any given night, if I have one, I have 15. And I'm not talking beers, I'm talking about, like, Reese's pieces. Oh, yeah. Like, dude, I get it. I crush them the peanut butter. I crush them. So, but I get it. But I get it.

You know, it's an interesting thing. So you did that and then after that you were good? How long ago? You said 13 years ago? Yeah. Okay, wow. And I think it's also when we're talking about don't do something, right? Like a lot of times our brains don't register don't.

So if you think about you've got a kid next to you and you say to them, don't run out in front of the street. What are they here? Run out in the street. Yeah. So it's almost like that idea of too encoding what we want, which is I eat healthy. Yes. I choose to eat healthy. I ran a gym for a long time.

I watched hundreds of people try to lose weight. Wow. And some of them very successful, some of them not at all. And most, right? Because this is usually the story. I do it for a while. And then I go back into my old habits. Because let's be real, motivation is a fickle mistress.

She's like, here one minute, gone next. Yeah. Yeah. You really have to know your why and truly embody it. You know, so when it comes to something like, oh, I don't drink, it's like, I'm not going to die, right? So I love myself. I'm healthy.

And it's going to that truly like I choose to live. I choose to love. Right. I choose to show up. I choose to be present. And you know, what I see with a lot of people, I work with a lot of high performers and athletes and clients. And they don't have an addiction the way I had an addiction,

but they're still drinking to the point that is negatively impacting them. And this is so much of America, right? Like, I'm grateful I was no question you need help. Because being just kind of above the line, it's almost more challenging. Yeah. And it's more dangerous. It is. And it's like, what are you really losing?

Well, the two days that you're hung over, the time with your family, you know, your wife is sick of it. Like, your job is suffering, right? But it's this thing that it's not quite bad enough to force you to do something, but you know you need to change. I love it. And you know, it's so funny because I want to go back to what you said, motivation is a fickle mistress. I try to convince people of this all the time on the show, right?

For the listeners and the viewers, you know exactly where I'm going to go with this. And if it's your first time listener watching, you're welcome. Here it goes. You can walk into a Tony Robbins seminar. You can walk into the most impactful room with a bunch of entrepreneurs and motivational speakers, how Eric Thomas can be playing in your ear

on loop for 24-7-365. Eventually, motivation will fade. The emotion goes away. And what is going to carry you through in those moments is true discipline and determination. People get lost in that middle. They're in the tradition. They can't see it.

They want that motivation. I need the motivation to go do this. No, you don't. You need to look at the purpose. What's your purpose? What are you chasing? And then go chase that. Right?

Right. And when you don't want to do it anyway, and that's the biggest thing is being able to just sit in your shit and sit in the stillness, sit in it when it's not fun, you know, and get up and do the thing that you don't want to do. And it starts with those little habits. Get up and make your bed. First thing. Start with a win, you know? Do your gratitude list in the morning. Like, we need to train our brains to be successful because our brains are very reptilian.

They're built for survival, not happiness. You know, it's, it's, our brain is wired to keep us safe, right? So that means we're treating when things get hard. And so this morning, and I talk about this a lot because it happens a lot. I woke up, my neck hurt, my back hurt. And I'm like, I really don't want to get up and go to the gym. Yeah. So I got up and I went to the gym.

And here's where people are going to misinterpret what I'm saying. So a lot of people think like, oh, that's hustle culture. No. No. Telling yourself, you have to go 100,000, miles an hour, no matter if your body's about the break or keep going and beat your body into the ground and having zero regard for your physicality and your emotional state, that's hustle culture. Right.

But the discipline to say, I'm going to go. I'm going to walk for about 15 minutes on the treadmill. And then I'm going to see what's next. Because what happens there is we unlock these checkpoints in our brain, right? Yep. Doing the next right thing. So I'm going to put my shoes on. And I'm going to walk to the door. Then I'm going to open the door.

And then I'm going to get in the truck. And then I'm going to drive to the gym. Then I'm going to get out of the truck. and then I'm going to get into the gym. Like, you see my point? It's all these checkpoints that we do, that people need to understand when we do those things,

we are building discipline and we are building positive habits. That's what we mean by when you say, when I say, you don't feel like it, do it anyway. Yeah, you have to learn to override your system because if you give in every single time, that is also a muscle.

If you're like, oh, it's hard, I quit. Yeah. Great, good luck with that. Cool. Good luck with life. Yeah, exactly. We know how that ends. So what do you say to the people?

because I'm sorry, sorry, I have to ask this before. Don't forget, don't lose that train of thought. Because I know you're wrong to something, but I have to say this because my ADHD will torch me if I don't. What do you say to the people? Well, that's not self-love. Great question. I think you really nailed it, though.

When we talk about this hustle culture and overperforming, if I don't feel like going to the gym and saying, I need to get up and like David Goggins is shit and go run 30 miles, that's not love. loving. That's not aligned with true self-care and my deeper intention of health and wellness, right? But if I get up and say, I'm going to go sit on the stationary bike and I'm going to ride for 15 minutes and I'm going to do the thing that I know is going to improve my health and my longevity and allowed me to carry my grandkids when I'm 80, how is that not the most loving thing that you could do? Exactly. I love it. Yeah. No question. I mean, movement is everything.

movement, breath, right? Like, all of these things that we disregard and people will be like, oh, that's just some hippie, you know, like, whatever. It's like, no, this is it. Yeah. And we can read all the books and we can get addicted to healing. I know a lot of people, they are stuck in their story. They are always on to the next thing.

There's always a new diet. There's always a new ailment to heal. There's always some new protocol. You know, it's like, at what point are you just living, right? You're cracking me up, Joe, because I, I have. some people in my life, right? That they're always on this journey of, you know, self-improvement. But yet they're the most miserable people I know.

Amen. They're down and out. They're like Eeyor from Winnie the freaking poo. Yeah. And it's like, okay, you're on this journey, but are you really on this journey? Right. Because here's the problem. People think that watching the YouTube video, reading the book, doing the meditation is the growth.

Nah, nah, nah, nah. That's part of it. What real growth is, is identifying the things in your life that are holding you in shackles and then cutting them off. Too many people are too afraid to cut off the shackles. Absolutely. And it's all about those distractions and those tiny little changes in behavior. We always go to these big, massive disruptions, right? Like, quit your job, you know, lose 100 pounds, get sober, all this stuff.

Like, great. And that's amazing. And it's the micro-adjustment. I mean, I love this study that they did where they took all these people that had something great happen, right? Like they won the lottery or they had something tragic. Yeah. They lost a leg. And they looked at their set point of happiness.

And within six months of something great or something awful happening, they were all back at it. So really, it's these little tiny adjustments in our behaviors, our patterns, our thoughts, you know? And so much of it comes down to acceptance. being able to meet yourself where you really are at. Because we get lost in the delusion of I'll be happy when. I'll be happy when I lose 20 pounds. I'll be happy when I have the relationship. I'll be happy when I have the car.

And then wherever you go, there you are. So it's like, how in this moment do I love what is and inspire change? And again, a lot of that does come down to discipline. And it's having people around us that see our greatness. You know, and that's the other thing that is happening. It's such a big rate, you know, like you have one. of those eras in your life and you forget that energy is always being affected and somebody's going to turn you on or turn you off, you know? And so we have to be so diligent with our front row

five. You know, we've got a lot of acquaintances. We got a lot of people in the auditorium of our story, our performance, but like, who are your front row five? Because I want the people that are like, I know who you are. Yeah. I see your greatness and I'm going to speak to it. And I'm going to hold you accountable to what I know you really are. It's amazing. And sometimes it's those hard conversations that are the most impactful. I'll tell you I was in charge of doing all the addiction talks for the university and the athletes, right, at the university in Nevada.

So there was this amazing sports psychologist that was in town. And I said, hey, would you come and watch me do this talk? You know, and I thought he was going to watch it and just tell me how great I am, right? You know, at the time I was dating a guy that played for the Yankees, so I dropped that. And I, you know, I did my thing, right? And I thought it was awesome. So we go to Starbucks afterwards. And I said, so what did you think?

And he goes, do you really want to know? And I was like, give me a coffee back. Yeah. Well, now I do. Yeah. And he goes, you use your looks and you lose your power. He said, you will interest people, but you're never actually going to move them. And then he said, there are things about you that are special and things about you that aren't, and you have them seriously confused.

Okay, so I want the audience to really dive into that and think about that. Can you repeat that? There are things about you that are special and things about you that aren't, but you have them seriously confused. That is feedback that most people, I'm sure you hated to hear it, right? I'm sure that was like, ugh, right? But did it serve you? It split me open in the best way. It's why I can do what I do now with my clients and speaking.

But it comes to that moment as a child of who did I have to become to earn your love. You know? Because so much of us grow up with families like that. And it's not our parents' fault. It's just the way it is. I love you as long as you're quiet. I love you as long as you're athletic. I love you as long as you're pretty.

I love you as long as whatever. So it's like, who did you have to become in order to be loved? So what was it about you that wasn't special that you thought was? And then vice versa. I mean, it goes back to that little girl who was for molested behind the rocks that it was all about looks. And I didn't understand it's about energy. And it's about connection.

And it is about when you meet somebody that is really present with themselves and can be present with you, there is an aliveness that happens. that's happening right now. Yep. And it's hard to even speak about because there are no words to describe this feeling. You can't describe energy.

Like real energy, like, you know what I mean? Like, we have people in our lives, you know, friends, energy with my wife, energy you have with your boyfriend. Like, you can't describe that. It is a true feeling. Yeah.

It is a true feeling, but like, so anyway, go on. Because I know people listening to, like, energy, like, what does that really mean? Because some people aren't tuned into it. Well, and here's the other piece of it. A lot of times when things feel safe in our bodies, they don't feel good because we're used to chaos. Yeah. Like I am finally in a healthy relationship, which is great because I'm like, how do I know I'm crushing it in life?

I actually choose a healthy relationship for the first time in my life. That's awesome, though. I'm attracted to it. I want it. I deserve it. All of it, right? Like, I know that my healing has come, you know, to at least a partial completion because I want some, someone healthy, but I was talking to my girlfriend who's still stuck in one of those chaotic

dysfunctional drama, but you know, the sex is good. It's always good. It's all in, stay there. It's, but like we forget that the adrenaline, the cortisol, the feeling unsafe can also, you know, be very enticing and exciting. Well, it's an apragesiac, right? Yes. It's like, it's like, you know, in a public area. It's like you're scared to get caught and it intensifies the moment. Yes. Right. So it's just like, I don't want to. to equate it to that, but that's the only thing I can really, you know, like, okay, I'm in this relationship. Everything physical is great. It's a rush. I'm going to stay in it, even though emotionally and spiritually it's destroying me. Well, and even the withholding love and the

disappointment, the high is the lows. That is also part of the addiction. The chasing love, the losing it, the needing to hold on. I mean, the brain is lighting up just like it does with heroin. These toxic relationships are intoxicating for a reason. It is a, a chemical shit show in your brain. You know? It's so much beyond just the crazy animalistic sex. They hook us in the most insane ways. But I'll tell you, I, so I had one recent experience with somebody.

And you know how when you're making a change, the universe is kind of like, are you sure? You know? Are you sure? Dude, the unit. Okay, hold on. Because I got a bone to pick with the universe a little bit. She's always coming around and slapping me in the back of the head. Oh, yeah.

It's like the moment I feel like things are getting solid, just like, take it. Yes. Let me see what you do with it. Can you stay on your A game? Are you going to react or are you going to respond? She did that to me three times today. Oh. It was a big day.

It was a big day. You know everything I had going on today, right? And having this amazing conversation was at the top of that list. But the bottom line is, I was tested. I was tested. Are you going to respond? or are you going to react? And it was in multiple areas of my life.

It wasn't, I mean, the biggest ones wasn't business. Yeah. That's the thing, right? To your point. So the universe will always come and say like,

hey, are you really reformed or are you going to go here? Because if you can push through this uncomfortable, moment, now your growth is going to accelerate. And by the way, I went through like, you know,

multiple times like texting and I'm like, okay, no, erase that. Okay. Yeah. You know, okay, okay, that's good. Yep. And the funny thing is people that are listening are like, oh, no, no, I know what he's talking about.

No, you don't. Because if I spoke about it to a person, then it wasn't it. I had to check myself and not speak on it. Yes, amen for that silence. That is so often the true growth. But it's true. It's like, how are you going to show up? You said you want this thing.

You say this is who you are. Are you sure? Because so much of that is life. This is who I want to be. This is who I am. the space in between that is depression, anxiety, addiction, shitty relationships, right? But instead of growth and becoming that, right, collapsing time into her, we lower our standards. Yep.

And we just take the easy way out. But those tests are so precious and important. And it's funny because I was tested too. I got three hours of sleep last night. And I could hear the stories, you're not going to do a good job. This is a really big deal. you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I'm just like, oh, my God, okay,

what do I teach people is to not believe the stories? Things can feel real, but they are not true. And what I came to was maybe being so dead-ass tired will shut down an aspect of me that I really need to shut off and allow something else to come through. And so it's not silver lining it. It's not the toxic positivity or whatever,

but it's like the universe has you back or it doesn't. It's happening for you or to you. And what do you really believe? And that's a perspective, right? Yes. That's your choice that we get to make every single day. You know, it's funny, but first of all, thank you for caring so much that this is a big deal. Yes.

And I can tell you that you are absolutely crushing it. Oh, thank you. Yes. So none of your limiting beliefs last night that you were, that we're rushing through your mind are actually real. And that's the point to you guys that are listening and watching. You're every day going to go through your mind back and forth. There's just constant mental tugger war, right? I'm good enough.

I'm not good enough. But you know what? What if I screw up here? I did it today, right? We all do it. I'm not speaking from a place of like hierarchy here. I'm speaking a place of like, I'm a freaking mess. Like I do this too.

Right? And I'm constantly proven wrong and proven wrong in a good way. Like, okay, I am good enough. I am ready for this. So Sean, cut the crap. Like really just rest on the fact that you are prepared. Because if you're doing the work in between the micro things that you're

talking about earlier in the conversation, like getting up and doing the workout, getting up and doing the hard thing, shooting the show, like talking to the guests, like having great conversations. It all builds up for a moment and you're either ready to execute or you're not. And it's typically because you shut some parts of you down that, for me earlier, it was like a, am I going to perform well? And like, am I going to do well at this specific? specific task because this is different than anything I've ever done, I chose to suppress that side of me and just go, what, like, I'm here for a reason. Yes. Like, I'm on this for a reason. So I'm going to own it. Yep. I'm going to own it. And I can't say the wrong thing to the right

person. So. Well, and that's the real empowerment is when you go, okay, and even if the worst thing happens, I'll be okay. And that is what adversity allows. us to do. Even if the worst thing happens, I got me. Yes. Yes. That to me is freedom. But I want you to dig into that right there because even if the worst happens, I got me. There's a lot of people out there that can't say that because they don't believe that they do have them. What would you say to that man or woman that truly doesn't feel like they got themselves? Where would you start them? Because I know you coach a lot of high performers and other people in general, like this could massively change someone's life? Well, it's often in one of those apex moments of pain. I mean,

for me, it was a divorce. It wasn't even my addiction when I really learned this about myself. So sold businesses, moved to another country, we're there for a year, get divorced. Mexico, right? Mexico. He moved all of our money into an account I wasn't on, cancel my credit cards, and I'm alone in another country with no money. Cool beans. freaking out, you know? And in Mexico of all places. Yeah, I mean, this. Can't even drink the water there.

It was one of those moments. I'm like, all right. So I'm spinning out. I'm freaking out. And it was great because one of my friends literally grabbed my face. It was a pattern interrupt, right? Because I was just hijacked in my fear. He's like, yo, he is not the source of your love.

He is not the source of your money. He is not the source of your money. He is not the source of your happiness. Right. And I was like, oh, that's why I was so worked up. It's because this person who's obviously unsafe and hates me, I have given all my power to. Of course I am spinning.

So where are you giving your power? So good. Who or what, what job, bank account, what shit did you allow to tell you if you are enough? Wow. That is what I would say to them. I love that because we all go through these things, right? Whether it's an attachment to money, attachment to the wrong partner, attachment to an identity like a career or being an athlete, right?

Yep. When we fear losing things, it's because we've wrapped our identity in something else. And we've given our power, like you said, to another thing or another person, which leaves us, coincidentally, powerless. So, of course, how could we ever make it on our own? but when we quickly realize by doing work on our own selves that, wait a second, the power's still here, I can turn it on, but I got to prime the engine a little bit, right?

I got to do some work, and then I have to choose to believe. Well, and it's, again, it's all energy. It's all framework. It's all perspective. I was working with an NFL player that retired. And he goes, who am I now? Instead of, who am I now? Like, it's just that, it's the same words,

but a different energy, a possibility. And what if you didn't have to be anything to anybody anymore? What if you just got to be? Yeah. And you got to sit on a couch and talk to somebody cool and learn some shit about life and connect and have a real moment and that were enough. You know, I could dig that, Joe,

because I think one of the biggest things, whether, see, it's an identity shift, right? So when I did my TEDx talk, I did it on identity crisis after leaving spring. because I truly felt that when I left, you know, college baseball, I was like, I was done. I didn't go pro. And my last game was in the College World Series in 2003 in the right field.

When we lost our, when that last outward recorded, my season was over, I didn't know who I was. I've talked about this a lot. I'm sure you've heard this before from me before. But, you know, over the last year or so, I go, wait a second. This just isn't in athletics. This is in, you know, if you're a teacher and you go to salesperson, or if you're a salesperson, you go to a teacher, or if you're an HVAC technician. and now you're the business owner.

There's an identity shift. It's not a crisis. It's only a crisis if you allow it to be. But there needs to be an identity shift, right? And too many people are getting caught up on the negative aspect of that. Like, well, who am I now? Instead of like, ooh, wait a second.

Yeah. I get to play a different role. What does that look like? Yes. How can I be really good at that? So, you know, bringing the excitement and the perspective to those moments, I think, is everything. Absolutely.

And again, when you're in the hard ones, it's like, oh, this is my moment for growth. And really just remembering that it is an opportunity. And it sucks. And I'm by no means saying don't feel all of it. The disappointment, the anger, the fear. You know, that's what allows us to be so magnetic is when we can hold both equally. Yeah.

The joy and the pain. And we can accept it all, be with it. You know, the most detrimental thing we can say is that shouldn't have happened to me. Because you know what? It did. And that's victim. That's victimhood right there. Like you cannot move in that space.

We do not heal in that energy. And so whatever you need to do, set a timer for two minutes, complain, blame, do all the things, and then turn it around because you deserve it. I think, I think, again, to your point, I want everybody to really dial into this, we're not saying, and she's not saying, I'm not saying that don't sit in those feelings for a little bit. Like, I think it's okay. And it's healthy, too. Like, hey, I'm going to give itself a 10 minute timer. I'm going to, I'm going to drown in my own, you know what right now. And I'm going to play victim.

But then after that timer goes off, I'm a shift. Well, and there is a way to grieve or process emotions with reverence, with dignity. It's how do I hold myself as I move through this pain? That's what matters. That's the difference between somebody who is going to thrive or simply survive. Love it. Because we can talk about resilience all day long, and that's great. And people will tell me that all day.

And I appreciate it. Oh, you're resilient. But for me, I'm like, that's not really what I'm looking for. To me, it's grit. Because grit is not just I will survive. It's bring it. It's that attitude of that trickster energy that's like whatever you throw at me, I'm going to figure it out. And I'm going to make it a game.

And I'm going to do this with my heart open and without getting bitter. Yep. Without getting hardened like I'm here for it. And that to me is what makes a beautiful life. Because this stuff is going to happen. See, that's the thing. I think it's the having the wherewithal and the confidence level. right, by doing the work on ourselves to be, okay, no matter what hits me today, even if the worst thing would happen, I got it.

I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. Everything is, you know, my sister-in-law is so funny. We have a great connection. Her name is Michelle. She's one of my favorite people on this planet. I absolutely love her. I can watch shows with her that I can't watch with my wife. So thank you, Michelle. I love you, sis. You know, but she always says everything is figure outable. Figure outable. Like, you know, we can get through anything now. Again, there are. certain tragedies. I don't want to be insensitive to that. But just the normal day to day. Like, if the worst thing in air quotes were to happen right now, are you ready for it? Can you get through it? Do you have safe falls? You know, I want to share this story with you. Like I said,

my TED talk was all about finding the beauty and tragedy essentially. So I give my talk, the woman that goes on stage after me lost her kid at Sandy Hook. Oh, geez. And I'm like, you guys, are you kidding me right now? That's a bad. That's not okay. So she comes up to me afterwards and she goes, I loved your talk and I really believe you. I believe we can find the beauty and the tragedy. She looks at me dead in the eyes and goes, but tell me, how do I find the beauty in somebody shooting my six-year-old in the head? And it was just this moment of...

My skin is like my hair is on in right now. Like, there's no beauty in that. But the beauty is in knowing that every single day of that boy's life for six years he knew he was loved. The beauty is in her willingness to get up on stage and talk about senseless gun violence and spread a very powerful message. The beauty is in the other parents that have sadly gone through the same tragedy that now have hope. You know what I mean? Like the beauty is in the love, never in the violence. And that is the thing we all need to remember, though. You are never responsible for what happens to you, but you are responsible for your healing. We must

choose to move forward. I'm rarely at a loss for words, right? And I'm sitting here thinking like almost in tears because I have three beautiful children. And the biggest fear I have every single day is I'm just going to let you and the audience know right now is the moment I drop them off at school. Yeah.

I fear that. I fear it in my soul. I fear it in my bones. And it's just something that... When did making plants? get this complicated. It's time to streamline with WhatsApp. The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.

Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com. I don't know if I'll ever get over that.

Because society has taught me one thing. no one's safe from it. It can happen anywhere. Right. And, you know, it's a part of a bunch of different, you know, issues in society, whether, you know, people want to say these kids are raised poorly or they're, you know, caught up in social media. They've been bullied. Whatever the case may be. Medicated, yeah.

Medicated. All can be true. All can be true. But my biggest fear is that alone right there. And for that woman that you had the opportunity to meet at your TED Talk, she actually lived it. She has stepped through it. Is with it every day. I am certain.

And there is an aliveness and real to her that you don't get to meet very often. It was interesting. I was listening to Elizabeth Gilbert who wrote Eat, Pray, Love. Talk about the death of her former spouse. And she said, the thing I was so scared about when grieving death was depression. She goes, but I didn't realize there's an aliveness to the grief. She goes, what we're really afraid of is apathy. The numbness, the nothingness, you know, which is ironic because when so many of us feel that intense pain, what do we do?

We reach for something to numb it, whether it's a pill, a drink, whatever it is. we are still feeling it, but we don't know that we're feeling it anymore, right? But it's like, how do we anchor in and be with all of that and just realize that that is also God? It's amazing to me how dynamic this conversation is, right? We've talked about a plethora of things, and most of them are societal issues. You know, sexual abuse, you know, substance abuse, school shootings, You know, these are all real things that people in society are going through. You yourself have gone through two of the three.

And I just think it's a beautiful conversation because that's what I love about the show is that it's so freaking real, man. Like we are, we have conversations here that, you know, quite honestly, we don't know where they're going to go before this show because I don't script anything. And that's a beautiful part about it, right? And we get to have these conversations. Like, there's an aliveness to this part. Yeah.

That good Lord willing, I'll get to the baby. baseball field safely because we never know. And I get to see my kids and I get to coach my son. And that is something that if you're a parent and you're asleep at the wheel and you don't see the true value and the opportunity daily that you get, you get to make their breakfast, you get to raise them, you get to have these conversations with them, you get to have these hard moments with them because some parents don't get to anymore. It's powerful.

Absolutely. And it is. It's about those moments. Why are you getting me all emotional? You fly to Florida and shit. You make me all. I was just like, I woke up this morning like I'm going to make him cry.

Talk about kids. That is super easy. Like you want to see me get choked up. Talk about safety of children. Like that for me like is it. Like that is my on a dime. Like I can have bipolar emotions. I can be here and then you say,

what about this with kids? like, oh, boom. But I think that that's also a gift of mine because it makes me, you know, this conversation earlier on a show was, you know, talk about what is real masculinity? You know, some people feel that real masculinity is men should not cry. You know, men crying is, you know, falling to pieces. And if a man falls to pieces, how can he be the warrior of the family? Like, dude, to me, if I cry, it's usually surrounding my children, right? Or this, this, this thought of something that did not happen, the fear of something could happen, but what it does is it re-scenters me into a warrior that can be present for the family. Absolutely. I think it's overlooked.

Well, and it just my brain naturally goes to, I know men that can't cry because that was beat physically into them. Yeah. It's such an early age and any emotion they were physically beat. They cannot cry and they therefore cannot love. Yeah. And it's so sad. It is sad. It is sad. it's nuts. Yeah. Well, what a conversation. Good God. How can the audience find you?

How could they potentially work with you? How could they learn more about you? So I'm very active on especially Instagram, but I have Facebook and it's just at Joe. Wetherford. And then you can also find me at joeweatherford.com or recovery remix.com and, you know, any questions, any resources, just anything you've found interesting. I'd love to know. I'm always so curious to know what landed with people.

Well, you know, I appreciate you. And, you know, it's been a special conversation. You know, I always love every conversation we have on the show. It's great when I get an amazing guest in person. I'm able to connect with them on a different level and have a real open and fruitful conversation. So I just want to thank you for that because when those things happen, then the audience wins and people heal. and they are introduced to another, you know, person that could be in their auditorium, cheering them on and that person is you in this sense. So I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming on.

It's been an honor to be here. Thank you for having me. It's been an honor to have you here. So good Lord. I, audience, I just want to, you know, say, please, you know, check in with Joe, go follow her on social media and really dial into what she has going on. She's a truly amazing person or she wouldn't have flown from Nevada, Arizona, wherever she is now, she's jet set and over, where are you now? Are you in Arizona? Well, I'm still based on a Cabo. I've been in Reno for a while. So it's Reno. I thought you,

why do I think you're in Arizona? Um, I was two weeks ago. See, there, there it is. I can't keep up with her. I can't keep up with her. But she's an amazing person. And if you listen to this episode and, and some of the things, um, really resonated with you personally, then please reach out to one of us. Um, you're never alone. If in fact, this episode reminds you. did you have somebody that could really use to hear the message, please send it over to him, share it with them, and let them know that this conversation could impact their day. So again, thank you for listening. Until next time, stay determined.

Shout French, what else. Let the pain inspire me. I'm from all and everything I'm doing up until it's done. I'm me for the entirety. I'll put it in overtime. I'll be working. Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time.

I confirmed it. A whole society determined. Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way. You want to sell those wheels. You want to get a CarMax instant offer. So fast. Want to take a sec to think about it. Or like a month?

Want to keep tabs on that instant offer. With Offer Watch. Want to have CarMax pick it up from your driveway. So, want to drive? CarMax. Pick up not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply.