Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - How Matthew Dillon Turned Rock Bottom Into Unbreakable Determination

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

In this raw and deeply emotional episode of The Determined Society, Shawn French sits down with Matt Dillon for a powerful conversation about adversity, identity, addiction, resilience, and what it truly means to build yourself back up when life breaks you down.Matt opens up about leaving Australia for New York, starting over from nothing, navigating addiction, loneliness, and career pressure, and learning how to survive by showing up every single day, even when everything felt impossible. From swimming through rock bottom to rebuilding discipline, trust, and self-worth, this episode explores the realities most people never talk about.The conversation also dives into Matt’s life-changing bond with a chimpanzee that gave him purpose during one of the darkest chapters of his life, reshaping how he views love, responsibility, and connection. Key Takeaways-Why rock bottom can become the foundation for real personal growth-The difference between fake confidence and earned self-belief-How eliminating toxic people and habits creates momentum-Why discipline, presence, and self-trust change everything-How purpose can come from unexpected relationships and responsibility-Redefining success, greatness, and ambition on your own terms Connect with me :https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGAMatthew Dillonhttps://www.instagram.com/mattdillon1983/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

He swam through the shit. I was COVID in it. Yeah. Sorry. There's a valuable lesson here for the people listening and watching. Want to try something but afraid. I will sleep when I'm dead. It's too hard.

I'm not in the same position as you are. Well, why aren't you in that same position? Because you ain't busting your ass. Shet a tear if you must and move forward. You've got to fake your shit until you make your shit. That was learned through hard-ass problematic life. And I think that's the best way to be what I am now. I did have to fake it, right?

I had to fake that everything was okay. Because I couldn't tell everybody I was stressed. I couldn't tell everybody I was scared. Dude, this show was starting out of an extreme amount of pain. And look at the joy you bring people now. Talking about the chimp, dude. Another game changing life. It gets me emotional.

It changed my life so much. Having gays on talking about crying chimpanzees. Yeah. Bitch, that's a rap. This son of a bitch, dude. Welcome to the Determines Society. I'm Sean French. Thanks for tuning in.

What up, everybody. I'm back here. I got my boy Matt dealing with me today. Man, I'm so excited to have him on the show. Been on his show once before the fashionally late pod. Founder of MD Effect. My man, welcome to the show. What's that, brother? My guy. It's always good to see you, bro. It's always a pleasure. It's a great energy you bring. And you know, you uplift people in a way that's so genuine and authentic. Who wouldn't want to be in this? I appreciate that, man. The pressure's on. I know, pressure's on. We got Mama here. If you can see, but she's well behaved. Don't worry. Yeah, she's cool, man. She's cool. She just wanted to be next to you.

I know. I know. What are you going to do? I mean, what are you going to do? Hell, man. You're always looking fitted. You look nice. What are we wearing today, dude?

This is something that's coming out in January from my own collection. So I'm collaborating with another company. You know, I like to be, I like to call myself a jack of all trades. You know a little bit about me. But I think today we'll get into, you know, taking those onion layers off because it's, it's rare that somebody can be a publicist, on camera, podcast. chimp guy. Yes. And I think that's what confuses people about me.

They're like, you're like in wildlife as well? I was like, no, that was my passion. But we'll journey into that. I'm interested in all the layers. So I'm going to, you know, throughout the conversation, you know, open a layer and I'll dive in because there's so much to you. First of all, being a podcaster, being out on camera, traveling, doing fashion stuff, and then being a publicist, that's a lot of stuff, dude. It is.

I mean, being a publicist is enough because you have a bunch of people shit to keep straight. Correct. And now you're out there behind, from behind the scenes now in the camera doing your thing. How are you scheduling? How's your calendar working? How are you staying locked in on everything that you have to do? Okay. So that's a really good question.

And that's something I remember, and you've had her on your podcast, too, Gertie said. She goes, you know, if we're doing this, I need you to be fully involved in this. but she goes, I see how everything else is this like flourishing moment to actually, which benefits everybody that's in my sphere as in PR mode. So how my number one thing is, I do not believe in the term balance. I will sleep when I'm dead and I'm good with that. I'm absolutely fine with that.

You are living a life that is about curating memories, iconic moments. It's good, bad and ugly. So I'm like, until these nubly knees give way, I will stand up. I will rise again. But I also don't take on things that don't fit my heart. And I think that's where my success has come from. If you look at the concept of burning out to a degree, I think people push themselves for the money.

That's what I learned. So I originally from Sydney, Australia. I moved to New York City. I was young, partying, wild, but would always show up for work the very next day. So I had this innate thing in me that when it comes to my career, that's my number one ambition is driven.

But I really do believe that stepping into any project, stepping into yourself as a human being, that it doesn't take a lot to just stand up and show up and step into something. It's like there's a lot of, a weak conversation now that it's too hard. I'm not in the same position as you are. Well, why aren't you in that same position? Because you ain't busting your ass. Yeah. So I don't really hear excuses. I don't take excuses. You say you'll do something.

You say you'll be somewhere. It's not that difficult. Show up. Bring great energy. And do what you love. Because if you don't do what you love and you're just there for money, you know, not everybody's built like you and I, I would say where you have that chutzpah to go and follow a passion, even when it takes you to dark levels. But I do believe that everybody, and that's where the fashion comes in

and why I decided to pivot a little bit and start the MD effect, is because I do believe everybody if they applied themselves in, you know, it doesn't have to be at the 100 gas pedal, but if they did apply them, that they would reach their full potential. Not everybody's full potential is yours, nor mine,

no my brother behind the lens over there. Not everybody's potential is unique and different. But we're put on this world to do something and be grand. Why be boring and sit your ass at home and complain about what you don't have? Don't sit in and wallow in moments of toughness. Take that moment. shed a tear if you must and move forward

dude so many good things I want to get to out of that monologue right there but the one thing you said that really struck me

and you probably saw my physical reaction it was not everybody has has it in them to go hard no matter how low

it takes them like to the dark spots and I don't judge people for that either I don't even. I want to be clear. No, no judgment because, I mean, even building this, man, and I talk about this a lot,

dude, building this platform took me to the darkest days. I mean, dark, bro, like feeling unworthy, feeling unseen, just invisible, all the different words you can you can think of for that, right? But the ultimate thing is, is I was thinking like, you know what, this isn't my fault. This is because I don't have this. I don't have that. I don't have all these different things. Like, I don't have production.

I don't have nice cameras. I don't have marketing. I don't have PR. I don't have all these things. But what I quickly realized, when I took care of that one thing that I needed to take care of, all those things came.

And I got out of those dark moments. And all of a sudden, we start having these massive, massive trajectory of growth. I mean, we were up 99% on all analytics in 2025. That's insanity. explosive growth right but it's because i was willing to sit there in those darkest moments and just kind of feel those and just go with my heart that's really nice it's like i'm not going to come off of this i know i'm going to come out of it can't get any worse like this shit cannot get any worse but you

you mentioned your heart you know and you mentioned you're from australia and you moved to new york that was said and kind of just glanced over it's like it's 15 years of my life that i just fast-forted through yeah and so like i want to dig into that because you have a you have a you you have a pretty interesting story coming from, you know, Australia to New York to L.A. And now you're here in Florida. Like, dude, that took balls. That took balls. And you didn't know how you were going to get it done.

And this is why I think this is so important to the story. Because everything you've created because it's given you the platform. It's given you the strength and resilience to build the clothing brand to do all the different things that you're doing. Because you weren't afraid of what's it going to look like. You just knew that this is my passion. I want to get out to New York. I want to live there. So the audience and even myself back in the day would want something,

but always wanted to know the how or the why, right? And the thing that I admire about you is you didn't, you might have thought about that, but you didn't act on that. You acted in such a way of just taking action. So I want you to walk the audience to your thought process because there's a valuable lesson here for the people listening and watching that are sitting there stuck, want to try something but afraid.

Okay. Let's say it's like, where do I, where do I begin? I would say, let me start with this sentence. Living in the moment, really take pause in moments in moments where you don't know what's happening. So even the littlest thing, the very first memory I have of getting to New York, I had a girlfriend there that was a contributor for the Today Show. Her name was Catherine Neisman.

Shout out to her. She's very, very well established. She said, you should come over here and give it a show. And I was like, give it a shot. I was really doing well in Australia. And I was 19 years old. I had my own PR firm. I was making, I kept the tax return.

I'd made over a million dollars. So I had done amazing work already. And I knew coming to America, I would go back to the bottom. Yep. I knew that. Some other people don't think that. They think, oh, I could ride what I have to get there. No, no, no.

You are a clean slate. You've got to start from the beginning. I remember the craziest. story was I knew Madison Avenue, Fifth Avenue was like luxury. I found a great rental on 125th between Fifth and Madison. Now, this is Harlem back before Harlem had been gentrified, though. This is way back when I arrived late at night. I packed my stuff in there. I work up the next morning to go open a bank account. Now, me being somebody in Australia that really has never seen a culture like that, walked outside and I was like, what is all this? Now, I lived for it, but I was like,

holy shit, I'm one. This is everybody else. And I remember the lady at the bank said to me, do you know where you are? And some other lady behind the thing screamed at her and said, you better watch a motherfucking voice to him. He's like, he's a brother like I am and I'm a sister to him. This is beautiful African American lady. So the bank teller was basically saying, you're white, we all black, what's happening? And I'm like, I'm just trying to open a bank account, ready. I just moved here. I'm here and I need somewhere to take.

It was shocking. So I wouldn't say the banks, but I basically walked next door and joined the bank next door. Yeah, of course you did. So that being said, that culture shop from Australia, everyone thinks Australia is like, you know, it is multicultural, but I've never been in a community where it's a lot of one and me. Yeah. And unfortunately, you know, I think the culture is.

so important in New York City. And I think that's what really toughens you up, that you are put in scenarios where you sink or swim. Are you going to stand by who you are? Are you going to listen, learn, understand, take pause and really get involved. I think my greatest skill set is that you can put me in a room, even back then. You could put me in a room and I'm one of myself and everybody's different to me. So I'm the odd man out. You can take me to a country town. And even as a gay man,

I will rock with you in that town and they will end up loving me. You can put me in any scenario. And I believe the statement that I'm going to say is you've got to fake your shit until you make your shit. And that is so powerful to me because I was bullied in high school in Australia.

I wasn't this confident person. And I became this because I was like, I feel greatness in me. Australia's pushing me down. They don't want me to unleash my beast. And America just opened up the doors and we're like, hey, we'll take you. Hey, we like what you're doing here. And this was before I was doing anything.

I just had the balls to step in and open my big ass mouth and ask questions and be respectful and learn and listen. These are really important skills for anybody sitting at home asking why is this not happening? Why can't I be this person? Why can't you can be whatever the hell you want to be? But if you don't know the skills, listen first. Don't have, there's a difference between fake it till you make it and false bravado. False bravado, you know, you can fool a few people, but that's when you turn into a narcissist, a manipulator, a bullshit artist. I was never that.

I moved all the way to New York and I started from the ground up again. I worked in fashion for years. As an intern, I started. So I went from making money using that money that I'd saved to survive and actually interned. So I've interned for Kelly Katron, who back in that day was on the hills with Lauren Conrad and hiding major, major player. I moved into another power firm industry PR that looked after Harvey Weinstein's production. So before he was popping off, Harvey, I was in with, you know, Georgina Chapman. learning from the greats on the outside of the door.

I wasn't even in the door. I was like, but I'm here. You're listening. I came all the way from there and I'm here. Yeah. You know, one of the things that you talked about is you can be anywhere and have these great conversations. You can be you and it's through a lot of personal development.

Obviously, you talk about a lot of people say, I don't like fake it till you make it. Be it till you are. It's the same freaking thing, dude. You're just, you're just, you're just packaging it differently. Because there's multiple moments in my journey where I did have to fake it, right? I had to fake that everything was okay. Because I couldn't tell everybody I was stressed. I couldn't tell everybody I was scared.

You're the captain. Yeah, I'm like, dude. You're the captain. I mean, the closest people to me knew that I was just out of my depth. I was completely out of my depth. But in your destiny. Exactly. Out of your depth?

Yeah. But in your destiny. No, exactly. Right. But the thing that I've always enjoyed about you was your level of self-confidence and or is your level of self-confidence and your ability to make relationship with all types of people, man. And that is a testament to you. Thank you. You know, for the audience, you need to go look Matt Dylan up and you need to follow him. You need to go check out everything he's doing. His show is great.

His purpose is great. But he's a great friend. And, you know, when I, I don't always read emails in its entirety. And I read your email in its entirety. I appreciate that. And I, and I, and I, and I, And I was just blown away. I mean, like, dude, that move, like, it's not an easy thing. You know, people could say, okay, well, you just move from Australia to here in New York. Yeah, it's going to be tough. But, dude, there's so many layers to that. Huge layers.

There's so many layers, bro. Mental, physical, emotional. I mean, pull a year out. It's like, for me, I went through drug habits, alcoholism, cocaine addiction. and still showed up and worked. Now, that's what they call the functioning. That's problematic. So I changed my direction and completely changed that

and shut out my initial four or five years of people that I was hanging around. I cut them all out. So you had to start over again. One more time. Yeah. One more time. New network.

New network. But I had people that were there that were like, if you can beat this, you can be great. And the big defining factor for me was this big change where it was probably second or third Christmas in New York and I was super lonely, feeling really alone in a sense of like when you're surrounded by people, but you're like, this is not my people.

And I remember I was like, the only thing that really resonated me made thought of happiness was seeing animals and dogs and what have you walking around. So I called the ASPC out and I said, do you guys do like picking up dogs? like that they were like, we need people. The day after Christmas is the biggest rate of return of animals. And I was like, all right, who do I meet this woman on the side of the street?

She's in like a sprinter van looking thing. No windows. No windows. Sex van. What's going on? What the hell is happening? You have to be careful those vans, bro. You have to be careful.

No, no tags on another. Okay. No English either. Now I live in Miami. I'm still like a little shitty on the Spanish. but she was like, call me mama is what I understood. I was like, oh, mamacita, no problems. We went and picked dog after dog after dog up.

Five more stops on the thing. We come to a place. We take a dog and I hear a dog like a squealing sound in a trash can right at the end of the blood. And I'm running down there and she's running behind me and she's like pushing me back like this. And she opens it up. And she puts it back down, turns to me. She's like yours, no paperwork. I was like mine and I opened it up.

It's a little geriatric. She was no more than four months, jaw hanging a little skew with. Where you are? Come on. Ready? Come on. We see her in camera.

She came out of the trash. There you are, baby. There she is. Good girl. Oh, man. So we're now 17 years later. 17 years later? 17 years later.

She came out of a trash can. She was the size of just bigger than my hand. and she lives a life that good girl let's let you back down no violence no violence don't choose violence today so don't choose violence so we we found each other and if she could write a memoir

bitch dude I'm gonna tell you something it changed my whole trajectory it gave me purpose having a responsibility and I just fell in love with the fact that somebody had discarded this being

and I felt discarded. And I was like, that's so like, woe be me. I'm discredited. She had enough money to come to New York City. But I felt like I wasn't in my right place. So dog, man, we found our thing. And I would bring this bitch everywhere. She's here.

So she's here. She's hiding behind the thing, but she's doing well. She's cute, man. Yeah. It's funny because I go deeper when you tell stories like that, right? Like, I'm hearing it. But I think one of your other gifts is being able to see the truth or the potential in everyone.

And I think it was created in those moments. Because, you know, it's about, you know, seeing a dog in a garbage can, but it's really finding the beauty in that and nursing that dog back to out. Yeah. And understanding that you haven't always been understood, you were bullied growing up, but I was bullied a little bit growing up too. And so people like us, we tend to find the beautiful side of people. and find those gifts.

And that's a superpower. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I did have that thought if I ever found that person that did that, they'd be like in the trash can dismembered. But that's okay. I do have that little split section. Yeah, of course.

Don't we all? Don't we all? But I do feel that trajectory started a lot of growth for me. And it started ideas. And at that point, I was surrounded and I was in the door. Not fully in the door, but I was getting paid now. I, you know, we, we fast forward to the part, I think, where all that shit, because I stuck in it and I swam through it all and I didn't let it put me six feet under. Did it break me?

Yes, at some points it did. I think you can be broken and rebuild from broken. I think that's okay. Because I don't want to sit here and say in a sense that determination, the whole epi of your part to me. And I was thinking about it coming here. And, you know, what does determination mean to me? If I was to think that through this whole cycle, it would be like, you know, push me down, but stay tuned because I'll always get back up.

Like I really do have, I'm never going to stop. Yeah. I don't want to stop. I love the life that all of it, the bad, the goods, the thing. Every moment I really appreciate, you know, and I'm like sometimes, yeah, I'm exhausted. Sometimes we all, but I'm like, it's a blessing to like have lived so many dreams and so many ways. And I always say like now I'm here living in Miami in Florida, but New York raised me. It was 15, 16 years of hell, high moments, finding family.

Like every major friendship I have stems from there. And it's like I go back there. I was just back there last week for some press and I regularly go back. it really is a city that people are like, oh, if you can make it there. And then you're not in New York unless you're being there 10 years. I was like, catch me. I'm a half Ozzie. I did 16.

I'm good. I think there's a certain drowice about New York where people are like, she's a tough city. They're angry. Nobody's nice in New York. I was like, I firmly disagree with that. They have that nice. Tell me.

Come on. What's you got? Okay. That'd be nice to you now, though. I'm from California. I just want to clarify to everybody listening. I grew up there. I was in San Francisco Bay.

Love, all right. San Fran, I complain. Yeah, so East Bay. So like 45 minutes east to San Francisco, Contra Costa County. My best interactions in this business have been from publicists and marketing executives and all from New York. So. It's interesting. Bro.

That's interesting. Like the best of the best. They're so nice. They're responsive. They're direct. They're direct. Okay. So that's that scares people, right?

But they're kind. I've never been on the bad side of direct yet. Yet, I'm sure I will be. No, we're never. Never. But to that, it's so funny that you say that because I find the people in New York that I work with specifically in my business to be super approachable. like to a point where you wouldn't even think of texting a publicist that had a full feature

in Variety Magazine. Correct. Yes. You know, Sarah, right? Yeah. I'm, hey, what's up, girl? Like, what's up? Like, she's one set up the one for us next week in your studio.

But like, that's the misconception, dude. That's a misconception. That'd be known. I do say that that plays 50% in your and who you are too. because you approach energy, right? Energy, against energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. You know, you said something interesting and I really, for the nature of the show, I want to dive into it because you say you sat in it and you swam through the shit. I was covered in it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that to me, that to me, though, it's just like anything. If you're in the gym or you're trying to run a marathon, you're going to break yourself down, you're going to be worse

before you get better. And I think the problem with adversity is people see it as this never-ending loop that they're never going to get out of it. I'm right here right now. And they, and dude, they keep talking about the same thing over and over again. I'm struggling.

I'm struggling. I'm screwed. And guess what happens? They stay there. You convince yourself. They truly stay there. You eat shit. I mean, I would wake up every day.

Today's the day. I still do. I go, today's a day something massive, pops. Because I feel like you're at the, you're at a level here, but I was like, you've got so much more to go. And I'm like, I feel like I'm just started. I'm 43 years old, damn proud of it. And I've got so, I'm just starting. Yeah, dude, I think, I think there's so much more to me and so much more to the show that that hasn't even been touched yet. You've scratched. That scratch has been impact for that. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's been an impactful

scratch. But I'm like, way too shatter. Not herpes or anything like that, but just, yeah. What is this podcast? What is this show? I'm confused. The Descendment Society, sponsored by Johnson & Johnson. Sponsored by Valtrax. I was like something like that. It's not really, just kidding, guys.

No, dude, I just think that it's such an important point because in everybody's life, there's individuals right now listening that don't understand what it means to fight through those moments. And I'm not here to judge. I'm here to educate and help. So when you, for you, when you were in, when you, when you were neck deep and shit, what are some of the things that you did every single day, like little decisions, micro decisions, micro actions that started leading you out? Okay.

So first major decision I did was eliminate humans and bad seeds in my life. And I think that's harder than one thinks, but easier to action. So, you know, my darkest thing. was like I was doing cocaine 24 hours a day almost. That's crazy. I would go into the bathroom. I would do it. I would party on it.

And then I'd wake up the next morning and need it to get out of bed. I'd never done it. I've never done it. It's just good. But it ain't right. Sorry. I've never done that. It is what it is.

But we good. We good. So where I come from that story is though, when you're functioning on that level, imagine the personality I have just being this. I'm on a hundred. I wouldn't be able to handle it. But they were living for me. At that point, I was like doors open, we're ready to go.

I think what really struck me was that it internalized with me. I started to go, I went to rehab once. I seconded that, started to just self-analyze. And I think when you're sitting in those deep moments, start really taking a mental note or write it down. And I was like, I'm doing cocaine in bed with my dog sitting. next to me that's not what this was like party like when you get to a level of life where you're so like you've you have everything in the back but you're pushing it to the side and like you start making up shit to to count so oh i'm not going out tonight blah blah and you're sitting in solo and

and wallow mode my it happened like my mind clicked and i was like this is ridiculous i will not do this anymore i should be a bagillionaire by now but i'm I'd rather spend it on bullshit. And when I'm doing this shit, X, Y, and Z happens. And I never want to do this again and again and again. It's a cycle that you have to. It's vicious. Yeah.

But it does, it says. So to answer the question, using that as my core darkest example, is to say, sit in that moment. Give yourself the ability to breathe. I think people get to the point where we're trying to keep up to just survive right now. And if you can just sit there and be like, nothing's going to change till tomorrow anyway or the next day, sit there and just breathe. Cry your heart out. But when you get through that little moment, and you will, you will. You know, I believe everybody is innately strong.

I don't believe everybody is, and this might be controversial, I don't believe everybody's meant for greatness up on these levels, but I believe greatness is introspective. So when you be like, you know, you've got millions of downloads, you're the number one podcast, that, that, that. So we're looking at what dreams, goals, everything. Live in reality is, is part of this because some people are like, I want to be a singer. I want to think you can't hold a note. So like, sorry, that's not going to happen. Be a realist in your own life. So don't lie to yourself. Live in the reality of what you love. And when you start to kind of look at what people around you, eliminate things early. That's called living in things.

So when you're in your 30s and you hit your 40s, that's when you really should have things, at least in a better push, at least in a better push. Not everybody has the innate perception to really understand how important it is you are who you surround yourself with. And that takes time. But that also takes time. And when you realize that and you eliminate certain things, it's like this exhale moment. The person that you were doing the bad shit with or the person that was, you know,

emotionally abusing you. Like there's so many layers to humankind and the reasons we go through teenagers young adult and the reason some wins, some lose and what have you, for me, it was eliminating people really just getting down to the thing of being okay talking to yourself up here. And if that makes me certified to be crazy, then, mate, I know a lot of people that talk to themselves and they're very successful. Dude, daily, bro, daily. And I think another point that I would add for me is when I make changes when they don't stick. It's because I'm shaming the shit out of myself.

Correct. And I'm, you know, like, you know, if I were sitting there at that point with you, you know, if that were me, you know, next to my dog, you know. I was it. I was the most ashamed. I bet. I bet. But it's okay to be ashamed in a moment, right?

It's okay. Yeah. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. It's okay to feel shame. But to turn it into a month long shame fest on yourself is really, not going to play well. And so I found like, hey, you can feel shame. Yeah. But don't shame yourself. I mean, I feel it. I'm like, okay, well, now I need to do this. This is my problem. I'm going to do this today. I'm going to make it digestible. I'm going to make it, you know, it's where I can do this again

tomorrow. And then I keep going and I keep going. And I would continue on that path until something broke free. It's, it's very indicative of like I decided to, you know, do a coffee. date with a friend in New York City. And I pushed away a lot of people that could have been like lovers, friends, business associates, because I was like, best night to see them. So you take a nighttime thing and you go for a walk with a dog. You go here. I used to live near a big bridge.

So I was on the Upper East side. We used to walk the bridge back and forth. And that took 45 minutes and then I would be exhausted and I would go to sleep. So it's like, it's things like that where you look at. And it's taking those principles that you're speaking about and that I'm speaking about and saying, hell, it's okay to not be okay for sure. Secondary to that, your dream is not my dream. Your dream is not their dream.

And that's okay. But you put on this earth to do something, chase your dream. Don't diminish what God gave you and the body and what have you. Like really, and it took me a long time later in life to, you know, I put my body and my mind and everything through hell. And to be able to sit here and say like now I'm like, you know, I could be so further alone, but I would not, I would not be the human that I am.

No, it built you. Ever. It built you. I would not be able to be cutthroat in my decision making. And I think that's what differentiates me from everybody. You have really good discernment. When you're decision making, you're very, I've noticed when I've asked you questions.

and certain things. It's, when the answer's there, it's there. Like, I trust that. Yeah. Like, that's somebody I can trust. I trust that in myself now. Because that's why we're friends, right? That's why I can trust.

Correct. Because I see that in you. That was learned through hard-ass problematic life. And I think that's the best way to be what I am now. Yeah. That discernment isn't cocky. It is an ego. It's knowing for a fact.

If I say, I can do this, I'll call this person. I'll get you this. I'm going to do so. Well, that's the thing because, like, when you go through things like that, you build up the person that you want to become. Correct. You have this vision. And for people listening and watching,

you have this vision of yourself that you want to be. You want to become, well, what would that person do? Would it keep his word or her word to yourself? Would you keep your word to your friends? Would you do what you said you're going to do? It's basically what it all boils down to here in life. Key life sectors. Like, do what you said you're going to do for others and yourself.

and your life will get pretty damn easy because guess why? Those two things are very hard to do. It is very hard to do. Keep your word to yourself is the easiest thing to break because no one knows. No one knows, dude.

But we live in such a hustle society. We're on social media. We're looking at this. We're looking at that. I want to be you. You want to be me. Nobody is you. Nobody is me.

It doesn't really matter. Yeah. And at 43, I realize I am who I am. I'm broken. I'm scratched. I'm bruised. And I'm pretty damn bloody good at what I do and who I am as a human being. Now I like animals way more than I like humans.

You're an exception. I got a few exceptions, but I tell you what, lock me in with the chip and the dog. Put me on a refuge with a hundred of them. They won't hurt me. You watch. Jane Goodall is the G master of my life. And I look at people like that. And I'll be like, damn, I wonder if I got time to like,

Get enough money and then, you know, by 70, I'm going to open like a big ranch somewhere. Talk to me about the champ, dude. Another game changing life. The pandemic happened in 2020. I was scrolling Instagram. I was in L.A. at this point. Bless California. It's just never been for me.

It's a tricky city to maneuver. But at a different age. The access is so hard there, dude. It's very difficult in L.A. And I don't care about access anymore. I'm just that's wasn't that's not on my bingo card now I think access comes through relationships and those that were there 20 years ago and now where we are now and I'm like oh we we got the we got the dynamic down now yeah yeah so I'm scrolling through and it was fashion it was February of 2020 when the shit was may is this something is this a pandemic are we having anything what's going on I'm doing a photo shoot I remember with common electro I'm here I'm there and I'm scrolling and I saw this chimp like in a banana costume on escape. board skating. And I was like, is that real?

And I looked and it said ZWF Miami. And I was like, I'd been to Miami probably twice in the whole nearly now where in 20 years of living here in America. I'd been to Miami twice. I had no purpose to come here except to meet a chimp. So I go to Fashion Week. I take a fly from New York to Miami. I get in an Uber and this is out in Homestead.

If you know anything about Miami to Homestead is not it. No. Now, we're driving. The guy's like, which way? Which way? I said, I don't even know where this place is. He takes a turn into a cornfield. And I'm like, wow, it's like, fast forward I was with the guy for five years.

But this instance here, I'm like, this is like Jurassic Park, bro. This is sick. Come, the gates are there, the whole thing. Now, it's a refuge for animals. they, you know, and these become my family. So I go in, I'm a customer for the first thing. Within three days, I'd probably given like $5,500 to just spend 10 minutes with that chip. Wow.

Then I meant, this is how I play the skill game. Then I met somebody that worked there who was a volunteer that bought me in the next day and brought the dog in. And I have these videos of all three of us interacting at the very first time. And the chimp takes my draw like this and we're all kissing like this. And I remember looking at the chint. and I was like, do you want me to come back again? And it was like a yes.

I went back to LA. All right. Maybe never again. The owner of the zoo, Mario, Trabawi. If you know anything about him, I've got to have him come on your pod. He's life, his base, well, he is the cocaine cowboy. Like, he's a major player in this town. Wow.

But he has served his time, done his Jews, and devoted his life to wildlife. He called me, he goes, the money's having his second birth. do you want to come? They don't know me at this point. I fly all the way back again. Within six months of that second birthday, I've moved to Miami. Dude, it just changed my life.

And you asked about balance before. I would show up five days a week if I could there, but I'd be like night times, mornings, whatever, take him out, running. So imagine from a two-year-old to nine years old. So just so your audience is aware, Limbani is probably the most famous trip in the entire world. He has 1.1 million followers on social media. He's gone viral gale King spoken about him.

He's been on, you know, the five on Fox. Every network has done a story on him. BBC, we're killing it. So I became his publicist, his best friend, his inbuilt, his inbuilt caretaker. And I remember. So this is interesting. I don't want to, you know, I don't like to, because you like to keep this shit Evergreen. But we are currently December 2025.

yesterday was one year since the day that we surrendered him and did the right thing by him. And he now leaves it, Save the Chimps, that is Jane Gouldal approved. And he has a friend now that's a chimpanzee. He's working towards being on an island with chimpanzees. This is. So one year ago, my whole life crumbled again. Wow. One more time.

But I didn't do cocaine this time. That's good. I didn't do this. I didn't do that. So you ask about this chimp, it just changed my. my life. It was like that was, I was auntie. That was my family. And even, even Gertie was like, you know, he could rip your face up. And I was like, maybe he could. He could. I mean, if you go to my Instagram, it's like, we're like, you know, it's, it was the purest form of love.

He would pick her up and like that, that, that, that, that, that. No way. Yeah. God, I'll send you payroll to into Spice while I'm talking about this. We'd get show. For some reason on the property, there was a shopping trolley from marshals nobody knows where that ever came from okay but he would put me in the thing and he would push me in the shopping troll are you shouldn't take turns yeah you ask you a question because wildlife's interesting right and i remember uh in college i went to ls u and one of the tailgate days after baseball practice in the fall we'd go right across the street go to mr popcorn's okay his name was mr popcorn all right this dude was serious He had beer for us.

He had a bunch of food. And he had a monkey, I bet you. No, he didn't have a monkey. What do you have? No. So, like, a couple tailgates down one year. I think it was my last year at LSU. Yeah.

There was this, like, Tiger Cup, like, this big. It was Sable. And you could pay 20 bucks to take pictures with it. And I'm like, oh, I'm fucking paying for that. Okay. So I went over there, and I held this tiger. And I'm just like, dude, I'm literally holding something. Yeah, that you're not supposed to be holding.

And by the way. in a year, like this thing could maim me. And, and like, and it, it was liberating. I will never forget that moment. It's one of my favorite moments in my life. Something special about that. So with the champ. I know where you're headed with this.

Yeah, it's like you have this powerful, powerful, powerful wild animal. Literally, you're submitting your safety to this animal. And thus he's submitting to me saying that I'm one of your caretakers. His origin story, his mother, when she birthed him, he broke the mother's rips. So somewhere along the line, he became not able to go back to the wildlife. So there's chimps that are out and about in these roadside scenarios, which the AWF is not,

that I use like circus toys. And I disapprove highly of that. Now, people have said to me and I've received millions of DMs because his videos would go into the billions of views. That's crazy. My other's DM is filled with, I hope he kills you faggot. You're a homo. I hope you rips your face. That da, da, da, da, da.

So I have that in one, others folder. And then others that are like, you use him like a circus toy. That da, da, da, da. And then the lovers. So it's like this equal thing. Let me tell you this. everything that went viral of his was an activity that he was obsessed with

he painted he chalked he rode a skateboard we didn't say get on the skateboard and skate we didn't say hey there's a paintbrush do what you want these are all mental enrichment activities he's already in the scenario he is we didn't put him in that scenario but for nine years we showed him what love felt like and that is my friends your answer

If you ever want to come at me, you want to come at Mario, you want to come at any one of the core five to six people that works with him. That is a total bullshit that we ever did anything to him. The bigger he got, the news things, save Limbani, Peter, save Limbani. The ending of this journey ended with Peter basically having to retract the post that they put on their Instagram because they said, we won another one. and so I had the place he went to say show the letter that shows that we brought him there because we made the decision Mario made the decision and the reality is there's good and bad in every scenario would I prefer would Mario I preferred the reality is with humankind and human people

the wildlife is not really that anymore it's so foresting and deforestation station and tourists going in now into South African jungles and Rwandan jungles doing tours with big ass gorillas. I'm like, this is, that distinction's being lost. Maybe it was a part of the problem. Maybe I wasn't. But what I did give the world for eight years, six, seven, you know, seven, eight years was a portrait of love that has funnily enough, you take all these wildlife people, most of them have stayed on my fashion journey, my PR journey, and they're rooting for me and they're rooting for Limbani. And I was told life books.

I've got so many books in me and so many moments. But that chimpanzee, like, gives me hair still. You still see Limbani? I haven't seen him at this date. I went back probably too soon. We dropped him in this very time last year. I went back for my birthday. the understanding was he was hugging me, he was this,

there's no contact anymore. Can't even like reach out and touch his fingers because he is a chimp. And I didn't want, and we all discussed collectively, I didn't want to push him back in his progress. And now we see him with, you know, another big ass chimp called Tuffy

and they're like pulling each other's asses and like, do, do, do, do, do. That's hard, man. I intend to see him in January. I would like to. I don't know whether my psyche can handle it. Yeah. I think from me and Mario and I speak about it,

perhaps that's a chapter. When he gets to one of the islands where he'll be living free and wild, maybe I can see it always gets me emotional. Maybe I can see him from afar. Fuck, man. It changed my life so much. Sorry, this is bad. No, no, it's not sorry.

It's amazing, man. It's the biggest thing I've ever done and ever will do in my entire life. I'm so grateful to Lomboni, no matter what the world thought. Oh, you know, Matt, and thank you for that. No apology needed, dude. Like, the bottom line is, it doesn't matter. I know, I've been feeling it brewing. It doesn't matter what the world thinks or the world thought because you know your intentions

and you know what was going on. And this is a little bit of a lesson for everybody that does listen to the show. guys if you're an audience of this podcast please don't ever pop into buddies's DMs or in their comments and spew some hatred bullshit like that it's not what we're about here this is not what America should be like it's not what the world should be like what we should do

is potentially say you know what I bet you there's more to the story I bet you there's more to the story than what I'm seeing because people are just going happy and calling you unfortunately you know I'll rip your face off calling you know derogatory term Like, like, it's just, it's wild to me. But, but dude, to have something in your life that is giving you so much love and so much joy. Purpose, my man. It's given me purpose.

And it's made me a better publicist, a better friend, a better human being totally. Because I have respect for what people's time and understanding. Because of the way we communicated, we're talking. I can listen to you. I can see you do that. His would be touch and that's it. But you're learning energy too, though, right? Because you know what I'm saying?

That's why you can pick up. You can pick up. I can see people's energy. Yeah. And understand like you're not good for me. That's a gift. That's a gift. He gave that to me.

He gave it to you. You know, so it's like, I just find it fascinating. You know what I mean? My original as you weren't around in my life at that time. Because you and the kids would have gone. That would have been so cool. Ape shit. no pun intended.

That would have been so freaking cool, man. It would have been so freaking cool. We'd go visit him at the other place. We just can't see it. The other place is hundreds of chimps together that are every name a chimp that was in a movie. It's the way Limbani is now. Jim crazy.

The one that was with Robin Williams. Yeah. It makes me happy. It's just I always wonder. Does he cry? And I spoke to a girl that works there. And they're like every now and then he'll sit in a corner and think. And I'm like, oh, he's thinking about us.

Yeah. Yeah. I bet you he is. He questions. my mind every now and then. And I'm like, keep going, bitch. Not now I'm working. I'm working.

Man, that's impactful, dude. I just think that little thing, it's not a little thing, but I'm just going to call little things like that. It builds who we are. And it's so funny because before we hop on, we talked about like so many different layers we can go through. And in so many different directions, we can go with this episode here. But I truly feel the overarching theme is building yourself as a true human being of

who you want to be. Like that has been the essence. Yeah, it's massive. And it doesn't matter how you do it. Well, hopefully it's constructive. I think constructive, yes. Yeah, I mean, that should be a prerequisite, right? Damn, my hopes.

I mean, gosh, good Lord. Like, do it the right way. We got a problem. We got a problem here. But I just think that there's so many different lessons. So I just really want to empower the audience to not prejudge any situation that they're about to get into or do. Like, oh, this isn't going to help.

This is stupid. you may pass on an opportunity, you may already pass on an opportunity that's going to really enrich your life. Be open if in to close this with anything. Obviously, I've had some big moments. But my chimpanzee could be your walk down the street or meeting somebody at a coffee shop.

But you take the chimp in the seven years out of it and say like that was a defining relationship that I had. If you're looking at life and you're looking at understanding how you can be the best version of yourself, which I think you were saying, this is the underlying thing for me, showing up, stepping into what your greatness is.

And that's different for everybody. Everybody. And levels on partner levels. So I'm not even saying like, your ambition might be, have a roof of your head and have a beautiful family. That's iconic.

Yes. That's iconic. Why is it not? Dude, my mother taught me that. Bless her, she said, Not everybody has grandiose and those big dreams. And because I would use to be like this, what is wrong with that person? Now I appreciate that life is made above all of this.

I've never had any ounce of like not jealousy, not hatred, not, I'm better than you. So don't judge anybody's story. If you don't really know anything, nobody's a director of anybody else's life. Nobody. There's a place, there's a place and a thing for everybody. And it's funny because, you know, know, there's a lot of people that wouldn't want to do what I do. And there's a lot of spouses that wouldn't want their spouse doing what I do.

Having gays on talking about crying chimpanzees. Bitch, that's a rap. This son of a bitch, dude. Listen. I love the games. I'm giving you good clips, bitch. This is a great clip. I'm giving you guys.

It's a great clip. I know you do. We go. That's great. But I lost my train of thought with this, son of a bitch. Welcome to the Chairman Society. I'm Sean French. Thanks for tuning in.

Matt Dillon, everybody. My wife will get, you know, things thrown out from her friends, like, how do you do this? His Instagram's massive. There's got to be people popping into his DMs. Does he travel? It's like, and she goes, I ain't got to worry about him.

No. Like, he doesn't have a bad bone in his body. Everybody has a different path. But my point is with this, when we talk about, and this is a question that I hate, when you're at like a get together and another man comes up to you and goes, what do you do? I hate that question.

I hate because, because you know what it is? It's a dick measuring competition. It's all it is. It's all it is. I want people to come up to me like, hey, what are you teaching your kids right now?

Like, what are you and your kids reading? Like, where are you guys going through right now? I have a great conversation. Or say, hi, how are you? I think start with some empathetic situation.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, what's your name? Yeah. It's just funny because, you know, there's a lot of people, my, my long drawn out point is a lot of people look down on others for not doing things that are as big. And this is air quoted for people that are listening

as big, right? It's like, but I can look at my wife was an amazing salesperson. Now she's a badass teacher. Well, that's her passion right now. Go be the best you can be because the kids need a really great teacher. Those are heroes. I got a lot of respect for her for that. I have a primary degree education. I know. I did read that. Don't worry about that. I mean, God, can you imagine me as a primary school teacher? Oh, my God. That would be hysterical. That'd be hysterical. Everyone, shut up. I don't think you'd be that way. I think I'd have an

amazing time, but I'd pick the favor and be like, what's wrong with you guys? Like, I have some ambition. He would be the kindergarten teacher that every book was about a fucking chimp. That'd be amazing. Come on. That's live. That's live. Chimps, good people, podcasting, television. And Mama. Let's bring her up for the finale, man. Oh, Mama. What are you guys to say?

Say, thanks, Daddy, for changing my life. Give him his flowers on air, Mama. I'll give her her flowers. No, but, man, I just think that, you know, there's so many great people, so many great things that they're doing, you know, it's so funny. Like, I go, little small things, dude,

in the morning, every garbage day. Like, I'll go outside, and if I run into, like, what's up, boys? like what's going on man and like but then other people just diss the shit out of them like oh here's another bag and they put on the ground i was like yeah like they are not your servant they're they're actually doing really well for themselves let me tell you anyone in that service like that is making good money they're making great money i want to be a window cleaner up high on the on the rooftops because i could make more money in a couple hours no fuck that dude uh-uh yeah they make

Danger money. I know. Danger money. Keep it. Keep it. Keep that shit, man. I'm not, I'm not all about that.

I mean, clearly, I'm on a theme. James thing. I want to clean windows at the top of the thing. That's just crazy to me. That's just crazy. I'm going to stay on the ground.

I'm going to stay on the ground. And then he's like, let's walk a red carpet. Yes. Who else you got going on, man? You know? To wrap it up, let's just say,

PR business is great. Fashion business is great. The MD effect changed my life. and to sum that up really fast. The MZ effect is a curated approach to making others capable of wearing, looking, and understanding fashion. So it's like small, medium, large, extra, extra,

wherever you lie on that, black, white, Chinese, whatever, whoever you are, fashion is an integral part of life, but it's so much more than that. It's about feeling good and really loving who you are. And I think I started this because I didn't love who I was. I love that.

And now I love who I am. Dude. I truly can look at that and be like, I love the man I've become because it took a long time to find him. I feel that, dude. I feel that. And it took a little old lady. Yeah, little lady.

It's always great. You know, just what you said there was, you know, I started this because I wasn't happy with who I was or I didn't love myself. And it's like a lot of great things. Most great things are originated out of some source of pain. Bonkers, right? Like I, I mean, dude,

this show will start out of an extreme amount of pain. And look at the joy you bring people now and the education. And the perspectives that come, and I must say, you have a greater potential and reach because you feel like you're somebody's best mate. And that, my friend, is your power gift. And I've learned so much sitting here with you. I didn't think I'd ball. I was not planning on doing half the things or discussing half the shit that I did.

but you really make somebody feel seen. And I appreciate that. And I hope that in my life and my career that I, you know, can do that for everybody, not just the people that are in front of me, that I can do that for everybody. Because I think that's the greatest gift we can leave anybody. Being seen, feeling important. And just that, what else is there? I hear you, man.

Oh, I appreciate that, dude. I really do. It's the truth. And one thing I don't do, it's, it's, it's, bullshit. No, I don't. I'd be like, bitch, this is a waste of my goddamn time. Like, you ain't it, bro.

You ain't it. You are it. Yeah, I'm not. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. For sure, bro. Let's take it higher, man. We are.

Don't worry. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. MDEafect.com. The mdifect.com. Listen, I got a lot going on. Follow me at Matt Dillon, 1983 on social. I want to do books.

I want to do the whole thing. I want to come into this 2026. period and really look at life and take some time from me now too. So really kind of not the balance word, but really pick and choose what serves me mentally. So it really keeps the engines churning. And that's really it. There's no big formula in life, I think. Pick things that make you happy.

My big thing for you, man, Chase presence. He's going to make me cry again this bitch. Chase presence, man. Change. Not presence. Not like gold and shit. Presence. C&C.

Whatever you're still that. That's bad, bitch. I'm dyslexic, all's being revealed. Well, he's been found out. Naba man, thank you so much, dude. You're a great friend, man. I love you, buddy.

Thank you. And for the audience, share the show with somebody you know, love and trust. Go follow him at at Matt Dillon, Dillan, 1983. Go check him out. m d effect.com and go listen to a show the fashionably late pod i was on it it's a good one um and always guys i appreciate everything you guys do with sharing the show telling your friends about it keep

sharing this thing out guys and until next time stay determined