Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - Kathy Ireland: From Supermodel to Super Mogul

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Global icon Kathy Ireland joins The Determined Society for a deeply personal and empowering conversation about reinvention, resilience, and faith. From her rise to fame as a supermodel to building a billion-dollar global brand, Kathy opens up about the defining moments that shaped her journey — from rejection and anxiety to advocacy and entrepreneurship. This is a story of grit, grace, and grounded leadership from one of the most influential women in business and philanthropy today. She and Shawn French discuss how she turned lessons from the runway into a blueprint for business — one rooted in service, integrity, and a fierce commitment to family. Kathy’s reflections on mental health, parenting, and purpose reveal the same authenticity that has made her brand a household name. This episode is more than an interview — it’s a roadmap for turning faith and determination into action. We explore: -How Kathy Ireland transformed rejection into billion-dollar reinvention -Lessons in leadership, transparency, and brand trust -Faith as the foundation for resilience and creativity -The reality of anxiety and the importance of mental health advocacy -Building family-first businesses with empathy and excellence -What women entrepreneurs need to hear right now -Why serving others is the ultimate key to sustainable success This conversation is a masterclass in determination — and proof that success built on faith, service, and courage never goes out of style. Connect with me : https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGA Kathy Ireland https://www.instagram.com/kathyireland/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. I'm so grateful to the people who have supported our brand throughout the years. And I've learned a lot of lessons the hard way. It started out with a mission of finding solutions for families, especially busy moms, because when our first child was born, quickly learned how underserved moms are. And I believe all moms work, whether you get paid or not. And there's nothing harder or more important than raising kids.

I mean, suddenly, taking a shower was a luxury. A product that we're launching soon as Kathy Ireland perfume, I discovered a shower in a bottle. It's just bringing really products that our customers tell me, I need this. This helps me. This will make my day better. And I need the right price to value ratio. And I need the right shopping experience, whether I'm shopping digitally, online, brick and mortar, whatever that is. It's got to be a good solution.

All right, guys. what's going on. I'm here with Kathy Ireland, former supermodel turned super business mogul. She's done so much for women, entrepreneurs, and licensing their products and families as well. I leave way, her first collaboration, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Kathy, but was it Kmart way back when you first started doing licensing? With our licensing, it was stocks, which we ended up selling at Kmart in the beginning, a handful of sporting good stores. But yeah, you're right on track there.

I'm on track, guys. I don't claim to be perfect, but as long as I'm on track, I'm okay. But she's done so many amazing things around the family and women, advocacy, all the way down to creating documentaries about anxiety. And this specific documentary came out a few years ago

was called Anzigergian Nation. But without further ado, welcome to the show, Kathy. Thank you, Sean. Great to be here. Great to have you. You've had an amazing career, you know, from, and I mentioned it, supermodel. I mean, I grew up in the area where when you were the supermodel, you know, Sports Illustrated, you know, Teen Magazine, all that kind of stuff, Vogue.

And just seeing you in that platform and seeing how your career has just grown with, with massive, massive growth. Just as far as building roots and doing something so amazing and meaningful for people, can you walk us through your journey on how, one thing led to another? Sure. I mean, as long as I can remember, I felt like a business person. I was four years old selling painted rocks from my wagon.

Always had jobs. The first real serious job was a paper route. And when I was growing up, he had to be 11 and a half. When I was finally old enough, my dad shoves this newspaper out under my nose and it read newspaper carrier wanted. are you the boy for the job? So knowing the reaction that was going to get, I wrote to the paper and I said, I'm not the boy, I'm the girl, I can do this route just as well as any boy. And my first day, it's New Year's Day, papers are really thick with those inserts.

And I was a really 17-year-old just thinking, what have I gotten myself into? I couldn't even live in the sacks. But I'm peddling up this really steep hill. and I noticed this man at the end of his driveway, like, you know, waiting for his paper. And as I approached him, I could tell, like, he was really upset. He was out on a really bad day about something. And I hand him the paper and he starts yelling at me. And he says, what are you doing here?

This is a boy's job. You're never going to last. And just caught me off guard. And I didn't let him see me cry. But I was grateful to that man. because there were a lot of days I felt like quitting, but I was not going to give him the satisfaction. And I couldn't because what would that do to the next little girl that would want?

That's the responsibility. And my dad, in his wisdom, he said, Kathy, you always give 110%. If the customer expects the paper on the driveway, you put it on the front porch. And that was foundational for me to learn to under promise and over deliver. And it's those lessons as a child, they've impact every step of the way, just having that kind of a work ethic. Understand what are the expectations and then exceed them. And that's, I mean, that's a great way to approach life and business. So from the paper route, other jobs.

And then modeling was not my plan. But I offered that opportunity. The look of the moment was changed. changing and I wasn't model material growing up, anything like that. I had one eyebrow before I discovered tweezers. My nose was always peeling. I was a beach rat. But the look was changing.

And the agency offered me to go to New York for the summer. And I thought, well, it'll be a chance to save money for college or to start a business. the entire time I worked in that industry, I was trying and failing at businesses. And it wasn't until at 93. And at this point, I am an aging pregnant model at our kitchen table. And that's where we started the brand with a pair of socks. Wow. I love that story.

And it's funny because I also was a paper carrier. San Francisco. Where? Well, and Concord. Okay. No, so I would, so I say San Francisco Bay because it was the East Bay, right? But I was conquered Walnut Creek. And I remember, I think I was, what's that?

So beautiful there. It's very beautiful there. I do miss it. You know, I went back, I think a year and a half ago, it was gorgeous, gorgeous. And I was in Hollywood for some interviews this past June. And just to be back in California and just airs so much there. I mean, it's pretty suffocating here. it's always very human in southwest Florida.

But I don't have a great paper boy story other than the fact that I just remember that it was my first taste of this is actual work. You had to go and collect. Remember you had to collect and you had the little rings around the. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember my dad would always take me in the morning. He would do it with me and we'd be bumping the Millie Vanilli.

Remember Millie Vanilla? That is so funny. That's so sweet. Isn't that a great lesson, though, in navigating all different personalities? Because I'm sure you bumped into what I bumped into. Like some people were so lovely. They were so kind. And other people were cranky.

Other people, I didn't know at the time what it was. I suspect now they were suffering from some kind. of addiction or something because they were really, they like start screaming at me when I'd give them the bill for $3.75 for a month for the paper. And, you know, it's just you really learn a lot of lessons and being responsible for that bill at the end of the month. Good lessons there too. It was so funny because that was my first exposure to people really don't want to even pay for what they committed to pay for. Right. It was just like, I'm just, a young boy going door to door and like, hey, like, here's your bill, collect. And it was just

at times they just didn't want to pay. But, you know, now as an adult in knowing all the pressures of being a husband, being a father, and being a professional, I can see how people would be a little bit, you know, put off at times. But to take it out on a young girl or a young boy, just doing their job is, that was a nasty realization, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. Most of my customers were super kind, but sadly, sometimes it's the harsh ones that we remember. But they teach us a good lesson, though, right? Yeah, they do. Early on, you learned a lesson that probably helped you earlier in your career as a model.

And then now as an entrepreneur and a businesswoman, because you're always doing businesses, you learned right away that not everybody is going to welcome you with open arms and have a a certain perception about you that kind of fits your narrative. And we have to work through those things, right? And it sets you up for pushing through the tough moments. And you mentioned right there before I interjected, you were early in your modeling career around 1993, you were failing at businesses. But then you decided you were pregnant.

You were like, okay, the socks. Walk us through that. So the modeling had gone on longer than I had anticipated and just, you know, trying and failing the different businesses. But I just felt like if I didn't shut the door on that chapter of my life, I might not live my dream of I was really interested in business and wanted to, it felt more secure to me, turning a living off serving people and bringing products and services that would really have an impact on their life rather than depending on a paycheck

based on how someone else perceived that I look. Look at the moments changing all the time. I have limited control over that. So I got offered to model a pair of socks. And it wasn't the most glamorous job. There was no beautiful location or anything. And they were thinking maybe they just crop at the knees and do a feet shot. That's where the career was.

And I had to contemplate it because it was a job when not a lot of of job offers were coming my way. I really like the people. John and Marilyn Moritz, they're in North Carolina. To this day, I mean, they're family to me. They are just amazing people. When you meet amazing people,

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you know. Minimum spending requirements in terms apply. Offer ends October 29th, 2025. So I said I wasn't so interested in modeling the socks, but talked about, you know, what do you think about starting a business together? I put a little team together. You know, what can we do as far as design, innovation, you know, just bringing great value to this really basic pair of socks. My husband and I, we tried out the socks on a backpacking trip, has been worked in ER, so he's on his feet. He's like, these are great socks. I love them.

I did too. We began by conducting a surprise factory inspection. Growing up, my dad worked in labor relations. And so I experienced, he worked with Cesar Chavez, and he helped him. implement getting outhouses placed in the fields. And I saw a lot of oppression and abuses. And you find out a lot when you show up unexpectedly. So went to the factories.

They were beautiful. People were well treated. I got to talk to, you know, everybody there. And it was wonderful. I really was excited about this concept. So it was just like hitting the street, presenting the socks to retailers. And people said things like, what a stupid idea it was, that. You couldn't start a brand with a pair of socks.

They had a lot of comments like that, but nobody had a reason why. And one of the greatest gifts of that modeling career was all the rejection. And I didn't appreciate it at the time. It's not fun at the time. But what a gift. Because when the doors were being slammed in my face, it didn't bother me. I mean, my response was, oh, well, no means we're talking. so maybe I'll come back tomorrow and, you know, maybe your circumstances will have changed.

Maybe it will never be the decision maker or, you know, maybe you'll be in a better mood. And I encourage people with that. When, you know, do your homework, when, you know, for talking, you know, products and retail, find out if it's a good fit. Like, who do you want to serve? What's your brand all about? And what are the person's needs? Because you're serving those people.

And how does this retailer provide good service and how do they align with your values? Or do they not? Do your homework on that. And if you believe in what you're doing, you believe in all of it, fight for it. Go back. Maybe don't go back the next day. It might have been a little stocky of me. But go back six months later and fight through.

And, you know, it was there were in the early days, there were things like you sleep in an airport. things like that, which was not a big deal. I think whatever material thing you give up to live your dream and go for those goals, it's not a sacrifice. It's a bold investment. And that bold investment led to us selling our 100 million pair of socks and growing our brand in many different sectors. That's amazing. You said something that I found really intriguing.

it was the things that people say. That's a dumb idea. Excuse me. You can't build a brand off of selling socks. I remember when I left corporate America and a very, I was in the medical industry as well. And it was, you're going to leave this amazing career to start a podcast.

I'm like, well, I've been going for about, you know, two to three years at this point. They're like, yeah, dude, you're doing, it's a small show. You're doing it on. my show on an iPhone. And I was just recording audio. And eventually what happened is I believed in it. I believed in the mission. I knew what my platform was for. It wasn't for me. It was for people. And I wanted people to understand that there's a wide range of people that are struggling every day.

Doesn't matter if they're celebrities. Doesn't matter if it's just a regular Joe. We all have the same struggles because we're all people, we're human living in this experience. And if I could just give them stories of determination and of hope, then maybe one day it could be something. And then I look at where we're at now and I don't feel we're done by any stretch of imagination. But I look back, I'm like, wow, if I would have listened to them, I wouldn't be here talking to you right now. No, it's, I mean, it's, that was very courageous of you.

It's hard, especially when you're leaving something that, you know, feels solved. and people are telling you one thing, but you know and your gut and your soul what you're supposed to do. And so good for you. Congratulations to you. Well, thank you. Like you, right? It's a gift you have.

You know, you have a gift with people. You have a gift in entrepreneurship and licensing products and selling a lot of it. And for me, it was always I had a gift in conversation. And more times than not, I was able to relate to whomever was on the other. side of the conversation, and it didn't matter if they were someone of the utmost importance or if it was someone who was homeless and I was having a conversation with outside of 7-Eleven. I'll talk to anybody. Like, sometimes I think my wife's embarrassed to go to the grocery store with me.

That's why she sends me by myself. Because I typically, A, either find somebody I know or I end up making friends with somebody in the line. Because I just feel like my gift is having conversation. And so I felt like, well, if God gave me this gift, like the ultimate, an act of disrespect is not to utilize it. Right. Yeah. No, that's beautiful. And I do believe he gifts us in different ways. And I think what we're supposed to do to be good stewards is discover those gifts and develop them.

And when we're living in them, I think that's when we feel the most fulfilled. And we have strength to, you don't mind. It doesn't feel like work. You go through the hard stuff and you believe in what you're doing. And it gives you, strength to carry on and move through. I think the key word, what you're doing and what any successful person does, they really dive into the service aspect of it. I think so. It's, I think when our eyes are on ourselves and we're just thinking, like, what do I want

at? I mean, of course, there's nonprofit business and there's traditional business. And our company is very involved in nonprofit, but we're also, we're a for-profit company. We also recognize it in success. we have sustainability with our nonprofits. So we're motivated by that. But when I'm so grateful to the people who have supported our brand throughout the years. And I've learned a lot of lessons a hard way.

And our customer's been so loyal to us. I seek to be honest when we mess up, get something wrong. I want to learn about it, immediately address it, figure out how we're going to course correct. and what are we going to do? What will we put in place? What mechanism will be implemented to make sure we don't make that mistake twice? And when we're transparent and we communicate that with people, we're a team. And I lean on our customer.

It started out with a mission of finding solutions for families, especially busy moms, because when our first child was born, quickly learned how underserved moms are. And I believe all moms work, whether you get paid or not, and there's nothing harder or more important than raising kids. It's hard. I mean, suddenly taking a shower was a luxury. A product that we're launching soon is Kathy Ireland perfume. I discovered a shower in a bottle. Although, you know, taking a shower great, you can perfume when you're showering.

But just bringing really products that our customers tell me, I need this. This helps me. This will make my day better. and I need the right price to value ratio, and I need the right shopping experience, whether I'm shopping digitally, online, brick and mortar, whatever that is. It's got to be a good solution.

Well, I agree, and it's so great that you have that product coming out because I don't think any man can truly understand, and I'm speaking as a man, and I've had three children. And it was always, I haven't even had time to take a shower today. I mean, I know it's a real thing. It's something that we can't comprehend, right? But that is real for mothers. It's real.

And then shopping. Okay, so getting, you know, we've got little ones and car seats and they don't want to get in the car seat. And, you know, they can tense up their body. And then, you know, somebody needs a diaper change. Somebody throws a temper tantrum. So you make it to the store. And when you get there, if you don't have a good shopping experience, you're ma'am. So we want to honor her.

And that's why we really do a lot of research. I believe that's why we have such a wonderful, trusted relationship with our customer because we listen. It's like, okay, what do you want? What do you need? And they tell me, they're honest. I mean, I'm not a celebrity. Any smidgen of celebrity I had as a model. Our customer doesn't care about that, nor should they.

It's this is my life right now. these are the needs I have. And so it's a privilege to serve our customer in every area from fashion apparel to products for their home, to fintech, to business solutions, to insurance. One of the companies we work with, American Family Insurance, I love this company because it's, when you talk about insurance, it's a really trusted relationship. And I've got a question for. education. And so one of the privileges I have in working with this company is serving as an

ambassador for educating people about following their dreams, pursue their dreams. Like, let's figure out what obstacles are in the way, perceived or real. And let's remove them and figure out a strategy. The most successful entrepreneurs I know, they take the dream in one hand. The strategy and the other, and they use them both to drive that dream into reality. If it's all dream, no strategy, you're just, your heads in the clouds. And if it's all strategy, but no vision and dreaming, you can kind of lose that joy. And so I get to work with them on encouraging people to dream fearlessly and then protect your dreams, finding ways to do that. So a great, great company. and another area in which we're working, talked about education, a literacy program with Dollar General.

And I love this retailer learning about them that serving the communities, giving back to the communities in which they serve in powerful ways, bringing affordable luxury, wonderful products at that great price point. And people said, well, you can't do that because you've got all these luxury. products with it's not going to make sense to people. I said, why not? Of course. Why offer people who have money and they want to spend it this way?

Wonderful. We'll have products at that price to value ratio. But why would we not serve at every economic situation and no matter what somebody has in their account if they want to be really frugal and get a great value,

a great deal, great affordable luxury. I want to honor that. I've been privileged to know Warren Buffett, who is an amazing man. And something that Sean, you, me, and Mr. Buffett have in common is paper routes. And I've competed with him many times in the newspaper tossing competition. But back in his day, they didn't even use rubber bands. They had to fold it and make it not. Yeah, yeah. But he's a few. competitor. And competition is good. It's not a negative thing. It's good when it's fair. And, you know, typically prior to a newspaper tossing competition, Deb, who works closely with Mr. Buffett, she'd call me up and she'd just give me a heads up. She's like, he's practicing.

It's midnight. So I love the fact that, you know, even though he's got a few years on me and more experienced, He just competes and he doesn't rest on yesterday's success. Like, okay, I did really good at a newspaper tossing competition last year. I'm going to, you know, wipe her out this year. He practices. And so I love that. A lot of lessons there. Well, I think it's pretty cool that, you know, all three of us share something.

If you would have told me that I would share something in common with Warren Buffett and Kathy Ireland, I'd be like, what? That we have beating hearts and we're on the same earth. That's pretty dang cool. You know, and the other thing is, Sue, who won? You know what? Mr. Buffett is so kind. He has said that I beat him one year. But you know, I got about he beat me.

He's really close. I beat Bill Gates. I'll tell you that much. But, you know, I'll take that. I did beat Mr. Buffett in a golf hunting competition. I beat him fair and square. There was no questions. that one, but boy, he gets that target on the front door. He's good. That's really cool. I want to go back

to the Dollar General luxury brand. What is it that you're putting in those stores? Are you allowed to talk about that? Sure. We just launched with home products. So betting products in particular, and we are expanding into all different areas with the focus on the home. But I'm other areas as well. So it's going really well. We've got an event coming up in November. We're working with schools and encouraging literacy. I served on boards of education for, I mean, well over 30 years. One of the founders of a startup school, BK through grade 12, college prep Christian school, had no idea how much work that was going into that, served on the advisory board at the James Madison program at Princeton, and mentoring programs around the world.

So I've got a passion for that, a passion for kids, and I love how this retailer impacts the communities. They recognize what are the needs. and they identify schools that are in particular, they're having needs, they're having some challenges. So how can we really impact them in a powerful way? And that's really exciting. I think it's really cool.

I think it's really awesome because to your point, why not have something at the price point that can be nice so people can feel good? I mean, when you say home products, just imagine, you know, there's people out there that may not have had a nice piece of betting in the past and they get to go to Dollar General and get one of your products and then go home and feel comfortable and feel really good about it and see their kids' faces light up because then

they're seeing joy and that is what you are spreading through your products. And we are so grateful. We're extremely cautious about who we go into business with and who we work with in the manufacturing area. So of course, you know, I talked about those factory inspections with the socks. And the compliance, how people are treated, that's at the forefront of our mind. Something I love about this younger generation, they're very demanding. And I love that.

They force us to do better. Not only do they want great products at a great value, but they want to know what's in it. And how did it come to market? How are people being treated every step of the way? So we're working with really great people who are successful and they're able to bring really beautiful, luxurious of each of the touch, wonderful products that you feel good about, you love, they lift your home,

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That's amazing. You know, you talk about the younger generation of, you know, what's in the product. You know, I'm starting to see a shift. I think everybody has about removing certain ingredients from our foods here in the United States of America. And, you know, my knee-jerk reaction one time was, you know, in Fruit Loops, they announced. 2027, I'm like, looked at my watch. I'm like, it's going to take that long. Like, why?

But I think it's more important because we're learning so many things about the things that we put on our skin. I mean, it's our largest organ, right? I told my wife the other day, I'm like, hey, do you get dip on your, do you do your nail gel dip or whatever? She goes, well, yeah, I go, okay, stop. Because apparently that causes cancer now. And, you know, for so many years we didn't know. So to your point, There's a lot of education going around, like the things that we're using daily all the way down to, you know, dishwashing detergent, you know, the laundry detergent.

All these things matter. Yeah. No, definitely they do. And change is hard and a lot of people resist it, but it's powerful. And it's so much better to initiate positive change than be forced to react to it. And to recognize, well, why are we doing this? Do we really care about the people we're serving? I mean, there was a time when people said I was crazy, walked away from millions of dollars from a furniture company, because the furniture they were making was not compliant in California.

You could sell it in other states, but there were some toxins in there that were not deemed safe. And so I said, how could I have products in some states where my own children wouldn't be allowed to, like, sleep in these beds? It's like, no, it doesn't work. Get it right or it's not good fit. We can't work together. And it's really, I mean, it's important that we build that trust with our customers and that we bring them products that are good, safe, and bring value to their lives. Yeah, I agree. You know, California, I mean, I'm from there so I could say this, right? I mean, California gets such a bad rap of that.

Like, oh, the crunchy Californians, you can't have that. Well, hey, listen, you know, you can say what you want about California. But, you know, from the standpoint of wanting safe products, when did that become negotiable? Right. Right? Like, really think about it, especially from the standpoint of sleeping on a bed or, you know, like a certain type of mattress or what's in the sheets, you spend most of your time, most of your life sleeping. Well, some people do.

Some people don't sleep at all, but, you know, it's important. It's really important. We have a new mattress line that we're launching, and it addresses those issues. Exactly. It's healthy. There's no toxins in it. And it's amazing to think, like, we even have to think, oh, there's toxins in a mattress. Yes, there's some really bad ingredients in a lot of products we spend a lot of time with.

So, when we can find. So scary. I did hear about the mattress. I did hear about the mattress. I think there's a cool collab coming too with that. I think I did hear that. So I'm excited for that one. When's the launch of that?

That it's just as we speak. It's just being launched now. Oh, that's great. What's it called? Kathy Ireland Mattresses. Boom, boom. Is there a specific store

where this can be, these can be purchased or? There are many retailers. So we've got, and more information will be coming out. We'll share that with everybody. I'll stop prying now.

Online and plush beds. If you go to that website, You can look up our brand there. And they're a wonderful maker. They actually, they're here in California. Their factories are beautiful. Their team is amazing. They're artisans.

They do an excellent job. My wife and I will be checking it out as soon as humanly possible because we are in the market. Our mattress is a little bit old. So you've piqued the interest there. They're 100% organic. So I think your wife will approve. she will she's always reading labels so she will definitely approve um a couple more things i want to cover with you this has been such an interesting conversation and it's become very apparent to me and

hopefully the listeners and the viewers of why you have been so successful in your careers because you truly focus on serving others and you know finding the problems and then providing the solutions to people here um but what if you learn most about yourself in your journey as an entrepreneur Oh, boy. So many lessons. I've learned that I can be a slow learner at times. I've learned that there have been times when I've had misplaced trust. And that's hard. You know, those are hard things to recognize. But I'm really grateful for every trial. Business is hard. I don't know of any quick, easy fix way. That's why what you said in the beginning, Sean, is knowing what your gifts are and working in those areas. It's so good and it's so important. Sometimes we need to do work that

might not be our dream job. No, but when you understand, okay, why are you doing it? And I remember when our son was little and I was heading off to Las Vegas to go to a market and I was going to meet with salespeople to tell them about rugs that we were launching. And he just felt like that seemed so boring to go and talk to salespeople about rugs. And I said, wait a minute, are you kidding me? You know how excited I am to tell them about these rugs that are a great price to value ratio? I had you and your sisters get all the stuff out of the refrigerator and test them out and they clean up really well. So I really believe in these.

And they've taken my design inspirations and implemented them beautifully. I love these rugs. I can get excited about that. No, I didn't think when I was the little girl, I wanted to sell rugs when I grow up. But I'm excited. I get to meet with salespeople. I have so much respect for people who are in sales. We connect with our customer regularly.

We have different ways of doing that. But the sales team, they're on the front lines. every day. They're getting valuable information. They know what's working and what's not working. And when I can connect with them and share the design inspirations, the innovations, why I'm passionate about it, and then that gets communicated to our customer. And then in turn, they communicate with me, hey, our customer is telling us they want this and they don't want that. And, you know, if we tweak this a bit, it's going to be more successful. So why wouldn't I want to meet with them? And sometimes we find joy and excitement in, I happen to love rugs.

So I get excited about that. But even if I didn't, I can appreciate how that will bless our family and help us achieve goals that we want to achieve and how it will help our nonprofits in those areas. So I can genuinely get really excited about doing things that others might find rather mundane. And we're going to take a quick break to hear from our powered by sponsor. We're proud to announce a partnership between White Sands, Treatment Centers, and the Determined Society. With multiple locations across Florida, White Sands provides luxury, top-rated addiction treatment, from medical detox and inpatient care to outpatient support and long-term aftercare.

Their resort-style campuses, expert clinicians, and holistic programs create real, lasting recovery. Together, we're committed to bringing hope, resources, and healing to those who need it most. White Sands Treatment Centers. It's interesting because there's so many things in that, but you said there's times where you have to work things that are potentially not your dream job. You know, and I remember when, you know, I was, I moved to Florida during the mortgage meltdown in 2007 and 2008. I think everybody remembers that. And I lost everything.

I short sold my house. I had my car repossessed. And I came to Florida with nothing, Kathy, literally nothing. I remember having to run to the baseball field so I could provide one-on-one lessons. And I was exhausted. And I lived in Florida and it was hot. And then I remember having to drive a tow truck for a small period of time just so I could pay my bills or just get on my feet enough to where I could buy a car to where I could.

to where I could, you know, go interview for a job. So when I look at everything that's going on now and people say, man, it must be nice. I go, well, it is now, but it surely wasn't when I was all greased up, trying to figure out how to tow cars when I didn't even know how to change a tire, Kathy. I mean, I say that, you know, I mean, I wasn't great at it, but I figured it out. And there's moments in all of our lives. And for those that are listening and watching, there are always moments where someone has to pivot and do things that they don't want to do to help build that next version of themselves. Oh, absolutely. So what was it that got you through that time? Did you, where some people might

have just given up. So how did you personally? You know, for me, you know, I was very embarrassed, Kathy. I'm going to be, I'm going to shoot you straight. I was very embarrassed. I was broken. And for me, I always held on to the fact that I was going to be something. Some people call it stubborn, you know, that delusional optimism. But for me, you know, my show's called The Determined Society for a reason. You know, I was determined to figure out what my plan was. And I can remember sitting there on the phone with one of my best friends in the whole world. We dated for about three years when we were kids. And she ended up passing away from pancreatic cancer. My best friend ever. It's every, she passed away two days before my birthday. And so every October 26, I'm in this weird,

energetic state where I'm just busted. But I remember telling her at my lowest point, I said, you know what? One day I want to motivate people. One day I want to be a voice that people can listen to like a Tony Robbins. I was like, but I'll never be as big as Tony Robbins. And she said to me, and she goes, that's something that you can do when you finally believe in yourself. And so, you know, for the last almost five years, I've been building and building and

building for this. So the thing that got me through was just. just looking at the other side of it. Like, if I'm this low now, I got here for a reason, maybe it was decisions I made. I bought too much. I thought that I was invincible, right,

when we were making all that money as, you know, in the mortgage business. And if I can just harness the, the passion and the drive to move forward and to get to the other side, you know, without going completely crazy, you know, and fighting through, there was a lot of depression,

a lot of anxiety that went on in those times. And for me, it was just like getting through those moments day to day. It's like, what's the next checkpoint? You know, what's the next thing that I have to do? Okay, I need to go work out. Okay, I'm going to go work out. I don't want to. But what's the next thing?

I'm like, okay, now I need to go do this. And I just kept writing it down and I would draw a box by everything in my agenda on the left hand side. And every time I did something, I write a checkmark. So at the end of the day, I could look down at this full day, all this time slots of like, I did that, that, that, that, that, that. And it gave me, well, I earned the confidence that way because I was doing something about it. Oh, I love that.

And it's just a bit at a time rather than being overwhelmed. It's to accomplish it. And you mentioned Anxious Nation, documents that, Laura Morton and Vanessa Roth, amazing women were putting together, asked if I'd be involved. And I wanted to learn more about it because as I shared education has been a big part of my life and children. And not a day would go by without a parent or a kid. I mean, somebody letting me know that they were really having a struggle and what's going on. And I can't think of a harder time to be a young person or an old person for that matter.

It's just life is hard. You know, it's, it's beautiful. But it's really difficult. And this generation particularly, I think, has so much coming at them from so many different directions, so many voices in their ears, hearing things. And it's really difficult. So I learned how they were approaching this topic, and I really appreciated it. Appreciate it because they highlight several kids.

It's very candid and their families. And it really lets families know they're not alone in this. And there's not a one-size-fits-all for everybody. My personal approach is, I mean, my faith is, the cornerstone of my life and without it. I wouldn't be here right now. So it's my relationship with Jesus. And in scripture, it says, be anxious for nothing,

but in all things with praise and supplication, make your request known to God, and the peace that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. And writing that down, putting it where I'll see it is a great reminder when one of our children was just suffering with bad dreams and stuff putting that right where it would be seeing was really, really helpful for me. And that's how I navigate this life and recognizing that different people have

different needs at different times and just really um i i believe god doesn't make mistakes i believe every person has value and not believing the lives of the world like oh you're no good you don't measure up this and that i mean there's just so much that that makes it hard for young people and your approach of just recognizing okay i've got some goals let's just take one at a time and move through it and it's getting up another day when you don't feel like it. Like there's a lot of victories and those victories can grow and grow. And there is hope and it can get better. It can get a lot.

I love that you went there because, you know, recently I've done so much better. I'm also a believer. And I've gotten so much better of letting go and giving it to Jesus. because, you know, if I can't do that, then how can my kids? How can my wife? I have to lead in that in that area. And, you know, being a father of two girls and a young boy in a world that, you know, social media drives. And my kids, they don't have devices yet. They're not, I'm not letting them into the world right now. Not happening. Not happening. And, but I can even see it in my youngest. And she's six. And, and, and,

I can see when she's anxious. And I just sit there and like, man, you know, I've got to get better as a man and as a husband and a father because if I have moments, there's moments, Kathy, where I'll text my wife, baby, I can't breathe right now. And she goes, what do you mean? I go, I'm having a heart day. It's so heavy. Like, I don't know what, I don't know how I'm going to get through today. I have three interviews. And I don't know how I'm going to get through and have the energy that my guest deserves.

And she goes, pray. And I have done so much better lately of giving it all up. And now my children are starting to. We went to church yesterday as a family. And to see my daughters grab me and hold on to me during the service. And I could feel them just relaxing and just knowing that they have somewhere they can go now other than mommy and daddy or their anxieties and their troubles. It meant everything.

And let's not get it twist. said, I know he's in control. He's the one that got me through, even if I wasn't acknowledging it at that point, but, you know, he's there. And now that I can look at things, like, you know what, there's no way I would I got through without God. Like zero, zero question. Because there were some dark moments, dark moments, you know, so thank you for,

thank you for going there with that. Oh, he's so good. He's been so patient with me. such a i i came to know jesus is my lord and savior at 18 uh and then i went on to make the biggest mistake i i got saved my mom um packed a bible in my suitcase grew up with no faith she had just discovered her stuck a bible in my suitcase didn't know how to read it jet lag uh loneliness in the middle of the night in a creepy apartment in paris started reading um opened to the book of matthew and I was a really rebellious 18-year-old thinking who really knows what's true.

And as I read, I knew that what I had in my hands was the truth. And it was like, I want to follow him. And especially as a young woman in a world dominated by men that in that industry were not good. I was just so awestruck how much Jesus loves, respects, and always. honors women. If you take the Bible out of context, you can make it fit any agenda. It's so important. People read for themselves, have their own relationship. And when I finally did that, because I would pick and choose, I'd pick the verses I like, and I dismiss the ones I didn't like. And it's like, oh, I'm kind of scared of Old Testament God. And I don't forget that for now.

And my heart got convicted at age 44. And I finally read from Genesis to Revelation. And I was sweeping. It was so bitter, sweet. It was sweet because, oh, my goodness, Old Testament, it's all the same. The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. God is so loving and so patient in that love story, that thread all the way through, but bitter because I recognized I wasted a lot of time.

And of the verse, Joel 225, I will restore the years the locus have eaten. And he had convicted my heart. I didn't hear an audible voice, but I felt him tell me, you say I'm your first priority, but I'm not. And my heart was convicted. I'm having this internal dialogue with the Lord. And I'm saying, yes, but you know my life. You know I love you so much. And, you know, my wife, three kids, husband, business.

I am going to have so much time for you later. Right now, it's crazy, but you know I love you. We're good. And what I got was put me first and I will give you more time with your kids. I'll give you better time with your kids. And without recognizing it, I was making our children an idol. Anything, even something good, he has to come first because he equips us supernaturally to love them supernaturally.

and maybe they're not acting lovable or whatever that might be, but we need that relationship first. And when I started doing that, getting up a little bit earlier, reading consistently, 15 minutes, like praying, reading, but doing it consistently, he's so good. He just made my day so much better in every area in my personal life in business. It's like, oh, my goodness, I needed that because if I was living in my flesh, I would have responded like this, this and this. And when we start our day with like, you know, just fill me up and give me the words to say, give me truth and love and everything, it just saves a lot of time.

It makes life so much better. I'm going to tell you from Saturday to now, even the situations at home and certain moments, because it's like World War III in my house with the two girls in the morning. It really is. They're six and nine. You can imagine the moments that they have, even just getting ready and making their beds in the morning. I've been able to actually respond instead of react. And I do feel a major weight lifted off my shoulders.

I mean, because I committed my life to Christ when I was in college, but I recommitted yesterday. And my whole family committed yesterday. That's awesome. You know what I would do when I'd have those mornings getting everybody ready for school and they wouldn't like, you know, not in a good mood fighting, whatever. It's really hard to fight when you have like good worship music playing in the background. So if you want to turn on it as well with my soul in the morning and it kind of ruins their bad mood a little bit. That's kind of fun.

Well, what I threw on this morning, my girls and came out of my son's room and my son was fired up and my girls were fired up. I said, hey, I'm going to try something different. how would Jesus want you to respond right now? And you don't have to answer me. Are you responding that way right now? I'm going to go finish getting ready. I want you guys to sit with that a little bit. And then we got in the yelling and everything stopped.

It just stopped. And then on the way, there's usually bickering in the car, you know, in the truck. And I threw on casting grounds. I threw on Hillsong because I have my go-toes still, right? I'm like, I'm like, go. And I'm like, put it on. And my girls are like, oh, what's this? Can we listen to, you know, see.

And my son's like, can we listen to clean versions of M&M? I'm like, this is what we're going to listen to right now because I'm, I'm checking something. Daddy's, daddy's evaluating. And it was the most pleasant ride to school. The kids were in a great mood. And they got out. My son waited for my daughters, which never happens.

Usually he's out. Yeah. It was great. It was great. So that's leadership, though, right? So it's my job to continue with that and not get caught, as you said, in the flesh or, you know, stop leading in that way because they need a little handholding now with that. And, you know, there was times my little ones driving. Well, you know, what would Jesus say?

Like what would, you know, I'm like, okay, here we go. Like, this is the opportunity to really dive in and make him a focal point in our. household. So just a little personal story that I share. Thank you for sharing that. And I love that. So many important things you said there. And when you tell your children to respond, how would Jesus respond? I think it's common for us at any age to react rather than thoughtfully respond and let our emotions drive us rather than, you know, we let our emotions own us rather than us own our emotions and love the scripture that says be still and know that I am God. And I love that he doesn't sleep. And his word says, he will never leave us nor forsake us. And your kids are

watching you, which is so powerful. And I've learned, it's kind of hard when our, when we're little like we think our parents are perfect and it's a little earth shattering, realize they're not. But when when I've blown it and repented it to our children and in front of them, whether it was directly to them or to someone else, but just been honest about it. Those have been powerful times, too, so they know that, like, okay, mom and dad aren't perfect, but I need to honor them and I need to love them. my heavenly father, he is perfect, and that's who they're pointing me to. And I think it helps them when they recognize we're all going to stumble and fall. That's why it's like a daily. It's a daily repentance.

When I wake up in the morning, it's like search my heart. We don't want to keep doing the same things over and over. We need to make those changes. But just getting from point A to point B, sometimes we kind of step in the mud and need like that daily feet. Yes. Guilty as charged. Guilty as charge, right? It's always, I always think like this.

My wife said this to me, oh, about a couple years ago. She goes, if we're adults, if we can't emotionally regulate, how can our children? Yeah. Right. And I just think that it's, it's just a nice way to just kind of remind them. And we've always, you know, when we're wrong, when we jump to a conclusion, we're always like, hey, you know what, daddy messed up. I'm sorry. You forgive me.

can we talk about this? Because I don't want them to think I'm perfect. You know, because you mentioned, like, growing up, you always think your parents are superheroes and that they're perfect. And then when you find out they're not, it's earth-shattering. I want my kids to know, like, hey, daddy is flawed. Like, there's nothing perfect about him. But, you know, there's other, and I want them,

and I want them to, like, celebrate that fact because I'm not. And I just want them to see me as human and someone that can relate to them. you know and uh this has been such a dynamic and fun conversation kathy thank you so much like this is you thank you so much we talked about everything we talked about everything well i appreciate you and um again i'm i'm just super grateful to have this time with you today after all these years you know just seeing all the amazing things that you're doing and everything amazing that you have coming up you're a real icon but you're more of an icon as a human being and that's what I really appreciate him.

Thank you so much, Sean. Congratulations to you on all your success. You're a man with true success. So I really admire that. Thank you. Thank you, Kathy. And for the audience listening and watching, please share this episode with something that you know, love and trust,

that can get something out of it, whether it's entrepreneurship, faith, or just being an overall amazing human being. Share it and let me know what you guys think. And until next time, stay determined. Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way. You want to sell those wheels. You want to get a CarMax instant offer.

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