Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - No Participation Trophies: The Hard Truth About Courage & Confidence

Episode Date: September 5, 2025

What if courage wasn’t something you’re born with—but something you could build like a muscle? Juan Bendana, renowned keynote speaker, leadership strategist, and author of Confident by Choice and others, joins Shawn French for a raw and energizing episode of The Determined Society. From the stage to boardrooms, Juan has worked with leaders across industries—and now, he’s bringing his message of courage, confidence, and peak performance to you. In this conversation, Juan unpacks the frameworks that help people transform fear into fuel, create authentic confidence, and step into their most powerful selves. This episode covers: -Why courage is a skill, not a gift -The “fear formula” that keeps people stuck—and how to break it -Tools for building confidence in high-pressure moments -The connection between storytelling and leadership -Why authenticity beats perfection every single time -The mindset shift that separates the determined from the distracted Are you hesitant, doubting yourself, or wondering how to show up bigger in life? Yes, this episode delivers the blueprint. Connect with me : https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGA Juan Bendana https://www.instagram.com/juanbendana/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Or even T-time, T-time, T-time, T-time U. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. I can go on a rant for 25 minutes. You'll have to shut me up on the decay of society by way of participation troubles.

There's nothing that drives me more crazy than the entitlement factor of you're perfect the way you are. Work is the win. The effort is the win. Where did we get away from that? An unpopular opinion. Sometimes you aren't enough. Here's the key. Yet confidence is something that you earn.

We've been at the lowest levels of self-confidence in history. Because especially with younger people, we are saying that just because half the battle is showing up, no, it's not. I think this notion of everyone's a winner is just a toxic mindset that prevents growth. All right, y'all, I'm here with my boy. Juan Ben Danya, what's up, man? Man, I'm excited to be here. This is awesome. Dude, I'm excited to bring you to the audience so they can hear your story.

You have a quite interesting story. know, start off with a little social anxiety and things like that. And, you know, just like everybody else, I think allow fear to kind of hold them back. So why don't you give the audience a little background on who you are and then we can get into the good stuff? Yeah, I was that kid to give the 30,000 of a view of the story. I was that kid that had no confidence and didn't think that they were made to have any. You know, I was severely socially anxious and growing. up, you know, early on going to school, I couldn't speak much English. Because growing up in Canada, I was often, my parents are from Nicaragua and we learned Spanish first and going to school,

even though if you're listening to this, maybe you don't know. But if you're watching this, you know, they were like, wait, your name is Juan? And there was this confusion as to I would often be the first Juan people had ever met. And I was, When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp. The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th.

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A little haircut. So then I was like, as a kid that made me feel like I was wrong. So I would make up names and I would pretend to be something that I wasn't. And throughout school, I grew up not fitting neatly into any friend group. So I became a chameleon. and I molded myself to fit into every friend group. So I would hang out literally with the soccer team. And then I would turn around and hang out with the drama kids.

And then turn around and hang out with the break dancers. There was literally a group of break dancers that I was like best friends with. There was 10 of them. I cannot dance. I was the only one who couldn't do any. That was the next question. I could barely even do a handstand at that time. But I would basically mold myself into.

what I thought people wanted. So then that worked for a time. And then as I grew older, I was that person, maybe you're that kind of person to that would put things off and just put everything off. And if you're listening to this,

if you're anything like me, I put everything off, including the figuring out what I wanted to do and who I wanted to be. So then when I got to a certain age, and like it was the time, to decide to go to school and get a job and all of that sort of stuff, I hadn't invested the time or the energy beforehand into that to give myself any real options. So I didn't have

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oh, this is the part of my life where I feel like I can have some remote semblance of progress. And I got into that relationship. That relationship after six months ended. And I tied up all of my self-worth into that relationship because it was the only thing that was working. So then when the relationship ended and it fell apart, you know, so did I. And I turned to coping mechanisms to try and hide. Then the first place I turned was food. and it started with overeating that graduated to binge eating disorder and got to

place for I was 75 pounds overweight and food quickly became not enough. You know, sometimes when you do a toxic behavior enough, you become numb to it. And then I turned alcohol and started on Fridays and then that turned into Saturdays and then Sundays and then Tuesdays and ended with me being taken in an ambulance to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. And that was a low point. And, you know, it was one of those moments where I felt like there was no getting any better. And I knew something needed to change, but I needed to, like, believe in that change first. And that was, I would say, the demarcation line of like the So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text. But which you do you listen to?

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This needs to change now. And sometimes we don't have that moment to be able to really reinvent ourselves. For me, it was found in that like, I have no aspirations. I have no skill set. I'm 75 pounds overweight, dropped out living with my parents, girlfriendless. I got to figure something out. There's no, I feel like there's no other options. So that was sort of the origin story that led to that kind of like rock bottom moment

that I was like, hey, I got it, something needs to change. I need to do something from here to move forward. And we're going to take a quick break to hear from our powered by sponsor. We're proud to announce a partnership between White Sands, treatment centers, and the Determined Society. With multiple locations across Florida, White Sands provides luxury, top-rated addiction treatment from medical detox and inpatient care

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It's not just about the procrastination because people look at me and say, well, you have this brand. You're determined society. You're determined and disciplined individual. I go, yeah, because I worked on it, right? I created that identity and I stuck to it. But the underlying variable was somebody very insecure, zero confidence, always the fat kid, over eight, binge eight. right and even now if I'm not careful, you know, I can kind of start to go off the rails and then I snap back really quickly. I'm like, whoa, no, that's the pattern. Cut it right here. You know,

I never, I, you know, I always sought comfort and food and I'm not sure why. I think growing up, you know, especially in America, my wife's from McElrosa, she always kind of teases me a little bit. When we go to ice cream, she goes, get me a scoop of ice cream, but not an American scoop. And people look at her in this ice cream shop, like, what the hell is this chick talking about? We're in America. But the point is, like, the one scoop is like this big, right? And so growing up and going to family reunions and stuff, we'd get there, you know, clearly like California, because I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay.

And my great grandparents, we always had that family reunion, you know, Labor Day weekend and right before we went back to school. And we'd walk in and, like, on the patio, there was a picnic. table full of rice crispy treats like diablo did like bean dip chips you name the dessert in the in the snack food and it was there right and so you know it was always that comfort thing you know and then the adults would be around the campfire with the great boom box bumping randy travis and drinking alcohol and so when you grow up it's like okay well if i'm going to be at a gathering then there has to be a ton of food and there has to be a ton of alcohol.

Now, I'm not slamming my upbringing. Like I, those were some fun times, and it was always under control. And we just, it was just a great core memory run around my cousins and stuff. But my point is, like, it was very easy to fall into that comfort aspect of it once I got older and I started struggling because I had many failed relationships before I got married, right? Many of them. And a lot of them was because I was so damn insecure.

And because I didn't think I was enough, right? failed, you know, I got to college and, you know, played baseball at LSU as best baseball school in the country, but I never turned into who I wanted to be there or who I was capable of. So then that chip on the shoulder gets bigger, it turns into a crater. And then we cope with alcohol. And for me, it was womanizing. You know, like I was young. It didn't matter if I wanted, I wouldn't got it, right?

And that's the one thing I've always been very open with. You know, my platform is talking about those moments because there's a college, you know, college student out there right now, or a young man that's now 30 saying, wait a second, I see the same patterns in me. But what I really had to do is I had to fix my confidence, right? And you've worked with massive brands like Disney. You've worked in a plethora of more, right? I don't want to take from that.

But then also Olympic athletes as the confidence coach. So if I were somebody or somebody listening right now that needed to fix their confidence, where does that start, man? Oh, where it starts. Where do we begin with where it starts? And it's funny you say about the like family gathering one point I want to make is that, you know, growing up in Hispanic culture,

one of the most common, you know, anecdotes that we'd hear at a family party or in the house, if you don't get seconds, it means you didn't like it. Mm-hmm. So then as a kid that's craving love and attention and connection with your family, and with your older cousins that you think are the coolest people in the world,

but they don't think you're cool yet because you're like a seven-year-old and you're like nerdy. Yeah. It's like, if you don't get seconds, he didn't like it. So there's this conditioning that we get when we're younger that carries into when we're older. And many times our confidence is tied to the experiences we went through and the people that were a part of those experiences years ago, which is why there's. people, I've literally worked with Fortune 500 executives that still tell me about their teacher in seventh grade that told them X, Y, Z.

It's so funny because I can tell you my, no, Mr. Dorn. 100%. 100th grade P.E. teacher. Everyone has that teacher. Everyone has that person, that parent, that friend. So I think the first step, regardless of whether someone has zero self-confidence, or someone is at the top of their game. And I want to sort of acknowledge whether it's, you know, the Olympic athlete or the Grammy Award winning artist or the CEO. Here's the thing.

The people that perform at the highest level actually experience more self-doubt than those at the very beginning of their journey. They just have a different relationship with doubt. Because they don't see it as a sign to stop. They see it as a signal to grow to get better. When they're doubting themselves, when they feel like they're hesitating, they're shooting threes and they're going three for 10 and they're like, what's going on?

That self-doubt, they just have a better relationship with it. So the first step, and it's like the first step in anything, the hardest part of a run is tying your shoes. You know, the first step of building confidence is getting into the arena by saying this is an area of my life that I want to build confidence in, whether it's relationships, whether it's health, whether it's finance. whether it's business and career. And here's the thing. Everyone has, of course, different areas of their life, right? We have relationships. We have health.

We have finances. We have spirituality. We have career. Everyone has different levels of confidence in each. So you could be a two in relationships, but a nine in career. So the first step is sort of doing a, you know, audit, confidence audit of like, where are you at in terms of like, Like, what is the area of your life where you feel really confident in? And what area do you need a little help in?

And then you can actually borrow from the different areas. So at the beginning, I used to have a level probably one out of 10 confidence when it came to health and fitness. But I had it probably eight when it came to relationships. So I'm like, what am I doing here? What are the beliefs that I have over here? What are the mindsets that I'm carrying here? What are the actions I'm taking over here? And is that, can I borrow that over here?

For example, if someone has a really high self-confidence when it comes to health and fitness, like, what do you, what are you doing there? Well, I show up every single day. Well, I'm tracking my lifts. Well, I'm treating, I have a meal plan and I'm really sticking to it. Well, I'm eliminating any toxic behavior. And their finances are one out of ten? Okay, where are you tracking your finances?

where's the toxic behavior? How consistent are you? What's your plan? So then you just like copy and paste from this area to this area. Because I believe everyone has an area of their life. They feel really confident. And even if it's the show that you love on Netflix, you're very confident in the fact that you know everything about that show.

Great. 1,000 percent. Great. But borrow that from different areas. But I would say the first step is pour energy into the area of your life you would like to build confidence in. Energy is sort of the spark. It's the catalytic effect of saying, I'm going to give it. The thing that you give energy to will grow, even if it's negativity, even if it's stress, even if it's worry, even if it's self-doubt.

You know, I love that. Thank you for that. And for the audience listening, I want you to think about this. And this is a question I have for you. When I, back in December, okay, I was, well, November-ish. I made the December. in a decision in November, but started in December, right, to get my health on track. I was 230 pounds. I'm now 185, right? I was 31% body fat. Now I'm right around 15 to 17 problem.

Come on, in that short period of time, what I found is when I cleaned up the shit that I needed to clean up, right, when I said, okay, this is the one thing in my life holding me back. This is my thing. This is it. This is why my show is stagnant at a certain level. This is why my body stagnant at a certain level. This is why I'm stagnant as a father at a certain level, right? Or even a husband.

And what I started doing is taking massive and extreme accountability in the nutrition aspect with the support of my friend Jeff Delaney and my friend Josiah that did my workouts, all that kind of stuff, right? And I started every single day by doing that one thing. Like, I woke up at 4 a.m. then I walked downstairs. I had my protein shake, went to the gym, followed the plan that was created for me,

went home, had another protein shake, hour later had the breakfast that I was prescribed to eat. And what I found, Juan, was when I took care of that and truly stacked all those habits and tracked them, the workouts, the nutrition, like all that stuff, I started implementing automatically those principles and those habit stacking and those action steps in every other area. Because what people don't understand is when they hear us talk,

they're like, yeah, but how do I focus on it? No, no, no, no. Your key to victory is the one thing. Because that is the hardest thing for you to grow from or to get out of. And when you do everything else in your life automatically works in that circular motion. Like, okay, I'm doing this over here. To your point, copy and paste. A hundred percent.

And it's... Everything changed for me, dude. Everything. An unpopular opinion and maybe a hot take is that confidence is something that you earn, not something that you just have. The toxic cultural environment of participation ribbons that we have fallen into is literally, and you can see it in the research and in the trends of self-confidence. been at the lowest levels of self-confidence in history because, especially with younger people,

we are saying that just because half the battle is showing up, no, it's not. If you show up, you still need to run the race, by the way. To wit, like, you can't just, if you acknowledge, you participated, then it shows I didn't need to earn anything, which means I didn't need to work hard. And here's the unpopular opinion, maybe hot take. Sometimes, you aren't enough. If you get under the squat rack and you put on an extra 10 pounds and you go down and you have to bail out, that means you're not enough for that lift. Here's the key yet.

It is not a determination of who you are. Just because that relationship ended doesn't mean you're not enough. It means that maybe you're not enough for this relationship yet. Just because that business idea failed, it doesn't mean that you're not enough. means that maybe you need to reskill. You need to retool. So I think this notion of of everyone's a winner is just a toxic mindset that prevents, doesn't even move us away from. It prevents growth. It prevents us from actually getting better because how do we grow? We do things that we're uncomfortable with. We fail. We maybe get judged. We fall. And then you go back to

the drawing board and then do it. again and do it again. So I think if you're if you're a parent listening, please allow your kids to earn things to earn the win. Like have the win and their relationship because it's like their relationship with failure. It's like I want like my wife and I, we have a dog, which is basically a child. But when we have kids, we like I want them to lose a soccer game. You know, I want them to deal with adversity. I want to. I want them to deal with adversity. I want I want to take them to dinner after, go get some burgers and say, how do you feel? How do you feel about that?

Because that's real life. You know, gosh, you're speaking so much of my language in so many areas, man. The thing, my background is baseball. You know, I was a teacher and a baseball coach, first and foremost. And then I, you know, eventually transformed into this by way of sales, et cetera. There's nothing that drives me more crazy than the entitlement factor of you're perfect the way you are or Johnny you should be playing every inning or you should be in the starting five because you're my son and this is Little League or this is rec ball. No, no, no. Confidence and playing time is

earned. And I, you know, it's so funny because my son, he's 11 and great athlete. I mean, so many gifts, right, especially on the soccer field. And he's a baseball. He's from a baseball family. And don't get me wrong, his baseball skills are phenomenal. It's a harder game. game in a sense of where to be, when to be there, different, you know, plays and, you know, choices to make in a very quick split second. And he's working through that. But I remember during soccer season last year in the fall, because I encourage him to play both, right?

Season was over. And there was no playoff or anything like that. Zero playoff. And at the very last game, they took a team picture. and they had trophies. And he looked at it. He goes, he looked at me.

Like, just meet him when I'm won. And my wife overheard it and was a little bit, why did he say that? He's just like, what the hell is this for? I was like, I love you, son. Don't ever lose that.

You did nothing to earn that. I said, now don't get me wrong. Get an amazing season. Score a goal every game. I'm very proud of you and how hard you work. I will never praise effort. I mean,

I'll never praise skill. I praise effort. Like, your effort was tremendous. You grew. You as an athlete got better. And I'm super proud of you. But that trophy, your team did nothing to earn that.

Nothing. Don't ever lose the idea that you must win in order to get a trophy. Now, if you're in the Olympics and there's multiple medals getting out and you get a bronze, absolutely you earned it. But there's, I mean, come on, man. That to me drives me crazy. I can go on a rant for 25 minutes. You'll have to shut me up on the decay of society

by way of participation trophies. Well, it's the thought that we see the trophy as the win when the work is the win. The effort is the win. Where do we get away from that? I mean, that to me is... I think it's in part due to the fact that when we fail or when we don't get an outcome that we want, it can feel like that is a determination

of character. It can feel like that means that is who we are. So if we fail, then thus we are a failure. That's sort of what we deduce. If we fall short or if we don't do well, that means that I'm a bad person or I'm a failure. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. let's separate the fact that the result was a failure versus you are a failure because one is rooted in outcome, the other is rooted in identity.

That's what I think the biggest problem is is people think that the failures that they have are because of them. It's like, no, no, no, it's not like, let's not get a twisted. It's not because of you. But like, let's focus on instead of the outcome, let's focus on the output. Because if you give something your all at the end of it, you're okay with any outcome. because you know you did everything you could to make this thing happen. And if it doesn't work out, that's totally okay.

You retool, you reskilling, you go for the next time. But I think people are so focused on the massive win at the end that they don't understand that the prize is the journey along the way. It's like the actual win is the path. Like the prize is the path. want the, because then here's what happens. You get to a destination, you get to an outcome, you achieve a certain goal, and then the yardstick moves.

And you're like, I remember early on in business when it's like, okay, to be a success, you have to do six figures and that's what you have to do. And that is success. And then once you get there, it's crazy. The yardstick, you're just like, yeah, but real success is actually this. And then it just moves. and it's like, oh, you realize that you have already achieved the goals that you said would make you happy? You already achieved the things that you said would make you happy.

But you've just moved your definition of happiness to a new outcome that seemingly never hit. Yeah, and it's so funny because like what I've discovered, right, in my own journey and the people that I've worked with is you're right. The gift is the journey. The person you become in pursuit of that one thing is the thing. But so many people are focused on this way big mountain. I need to get it on top of that mountain. And they're forgetting everything in between. That's where you become.

This is a byproduct. That's the macro result. Like, cool, neat, cool. But the micro movements in between is what makes you who you are and what makes you special. And so what I like to do is every time we hit a mile, stone with the show, I clap for it. Okay. Now, what do I need to do now? Right? Because for me, once I hit that goal, like the first time we hit a million downloads in a year, I was like, oh my God, that's huge. And I'm like, wait a second. There's people doing that in a month.

And then I go, but wait a second. Now I hit the goal, but I'm not happy. I was the happiest when I was preparing and doing the thing, like with you and every other guy. and the work that I had to do to become a better speaker, to become a better host and conversationalist, that was the gift. And so I'm like, oh, well, then I'll just dive back into that. This stuff here, we'll let that worry about that. But this is where I focus.

This is my yardstick. And if I can get better every single step of the way, right? It's like the atomic habits, right? The 1% better every single day. But if we really focus on that, that is where we become absolutely someone that cannot be stopped. 100% and it's like it's so here here's what I think really challenges people it's hard to enjoy hard things meaning it's easy to enjoy the accolade the win the celebration the milestone because you hit it

and you feel that sense of dopamine that feeling of accomplishment great it's harder to enjoy the hard things the the monotony of going through the day to day but then you realize like no, this is actually the part I really enjoyed because it is what is facilitating the growth. And I believe growth is where we find happiness, not the outcome, not the result. And they did, I forget the specific study. I can send it to you afterwards, but they did a study, which was recent, where, you know, have you heard of the studies on like the amount of money where money doesn't buy you happiness? But they found the amount.

And it was like 70 grand, something like that, a year. They did a new study, follow-up study. You can Google this, probably put it into chat, GPT, and you can find the specific study that found that it actually wasn't the number. It was the change. So they found that the happiest people were not the ones that made a certain amount. It was the one where there was an increase in how much they made. So the person that made 50K and then the next year made 60 was happier than the person that made 150 and then next year made 130.

they're happier because there was an increase. So it's progress that I think fuels the feeling of joy and purpose and I'm moving forward. Like we need that. We don't need the wins. We need the consistent effort that feels like we can draw the line to growth continually. 100%. It's an unpopular opinion. But when people say, hey, do you get really happy when you think,

hit a goal. I go, actually, I mourn it. Because it's like that, you know how it is, man, when you have this goal and you're like, okay, I'm going to get there. And then you get there and you realize like, eh, then you mourn the feeling. And I say mourn, I mourn the pursuit, the chase, the work. And I just feel that if more people dove into that more consistently and not worry about the outcome, because they say it all the time, but it takes a special individual to remove themselves from the outcome. Like, it, be disinterested in it.

It doesn't matter. What matters is what you do, like you said, the effort, the output. That is the utmost important thing for anybody listening and watching this right now.

I don't care if you're a doctor or a teacher. It doesn't, or a dentist. It doesn't matter. Like, it's the output. For sure. And also what makes it really hard

is we are living in a world of outcomes where people will post on social, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, whatever it is, just got a new job or just started a new business, it'll get 300 likes, 20 shares, 100 comments. And then you post something about just like a random content post and then it'll get a fraction of it. Why? Like we're living in a culture of celebration. We celebrate, you know, our greatest athletes. We celebrate our greatest writers. We celebrate and the accolades are what is celebrated. We internally need to kind of flip the narrative for ourselves because we are living in a culture where like by and large, people celebrate

the wins and the outcomes. We're living in a culture of outcomes where you go on, it's like, everyone is just winning and then it forces this comparison of like, wait, I'm not having all of these crazy wins. And then you don't see. the 25 failures that took to get to that win. Like when I share, I remember when I shared, this was two years ago now, when I shared about signing the deal with Penguin Random House, I started the post. And like in the first few sentences,

like after 27 plus rejections, we signed a deal with Penguin. And we were like, oh great, because I wanted to show like, here's all of the adversity and the challenge and the, this wouldn't feel right on our list and this fell flat on the page and it's a no from us and no sorry and we only work with established authors and like I wanted to show all that because that's real life but for some reason people don't like to share that part of their story. You said 27?

27 Penguins was 29. Email 29. Yeah. And I still have all the emails. Okay. so do I. I just signed my first book deal. Come on now. I did a self-publishing thing about like three years ago.

I got my first book deal signed. Let's go. 27 rejections. Are you serious? I'm dead serious. I'm going to have to because I'm pretty sure it was 27, 28 or 29. And honestly, it's just to your point, it was like, we like Sean. We're actually listening to the show now.

but we don't know how we're going to sell this book. We just, I, like, the editors were always super excited about it. The marketing department's the ones that said, nah, right? I feel like they're always the fail safe. No, marketing, they're not excited about it. Yeah. It's probably a form email. Yeah.

I changed name. Hey, Sean. Hey, Juan. Kind of rhymes. But copy and paste. But it's crazy because I said to my book agent, I'm like, I don't understand why we're going through this. I understand writing a book about, you know,

blood type determined is not going to be easy. But come on, man. Like, this is a concept. She goes, no, it really is. She goes, I'm baffled. I'm dumbfounded. And I couldn't search for the reason why. But now I'm on this

conversation with you. We have the same exact experience. So now it's relatable for me. That was the reason. That's crazy. Yeah. It's nuts, man. And most people, here's what like genuinely breaks my heart.

That most people quit right before something was going to work. Right before. Like, they were five YouTube videos away from exploding. They were 20 podcast episodes away from making it into a real business. They were 10 speeches away from signing. with a bureau or an agency. You know, they were one manuscript away. They were one thing away.

And I think so many people's dreams just don't get the chance. They don't get the opportunity to, they give them a little bit of oxygen. And they're like, they're wondering why they don't, they're not already happening. And then they just give up and they go. They quit. And I've seen it so much. the speaking world where people now, they're like, how are you, you know, speaking at, you know, American Express or Lent Chocolate or Fidelity or Remax or Allstate or Nationwide or Disney.

And I'm like, because 700 speeches ago, I was speaking at a restaurant for 100 senior citizens at 7 in the morning when I was 19. See, that's it. That's why. Like, I was just like, I'm not the most talented. I definitely. I'm terrified of public speaking, which is a weird thing to be pursuing if I'm afraid of it. Like I'm currently terrified of it.

So I'm going to pursue it because I want to get over that. And I feel like I can really help people here. But I saw so many people come and then go, they're like, I'm going to do this too. And then they fell off. It's just so many people quit so early. You know, you talked about that fear, right? and I've and I've saw you I've seen your stuff and you gave a free diving with sharks example and it was so dang good because everybody stops themselves to continue to move forward or to

move forward period at all because of the fear in your experience why don't you tell the audience a little bit about that story because I want them to have the background of how you felt prior and then in the middle of it. Yeah, it was, so my fiance and I, when we originally got engaged, we went to Hawaii to celebrate and she wanted to go open water without a cage, without a cage, shark diving. It's crazy, but great idea. And she booked it, and it was a non-refundable trip.

And we basically headed three miles into the middle of the ocean on a boat with four basically 20-somethings as our leadership. and three other people in the tour. And we get out there and all, they're giving instructions. They're going through all like everything. And I'm like, this is a horrible idea.

I'm like, this is a terrible idea. And they're going through the instructions of like, make sure to always remain in eye contact with the sharks. I'm like, I'm pretty sure sharks eyes are on the side of their face. Like I'm just so like in shock of the fact that we're actually doing this and we're going through with it.

And every part of me is like, this is a bad idea. All of the alarms are signaling everything that is could go wrong, is going wrong in my head before the experience. And you know, oftentimes when it comes to something we're afraid of, we actually pre-experience it. We don't actually experience it first. We pre-experience it first, like the previews of a movie. So I was like, I'm just doom spiraling. And we create this whitewater with the engine to attract the boat, the sharks. to convince them that it's time to eat.

And literally within like three or four seconds, like 10 sharks start thrashing against the side of the boat, fins out everything. Like whole thing and they're like, okay, get in the water. Like it's go ahead. And like we don't have any safety gear. We have goggles and flippers. That is it.

There's no, there's no wetsuit. There's no, the water's freezing. It's this whole thing. And we get in the water, we slide and put on my goggles. I look down. And I see problems. like 15 plus sharks that anywhere from like four or five foot sharks to like nine and 10 foot sharks like buses swimming beside you and then Gabby gets in the water and the others the

other three girls on the tour get in the water except for one and I was vividly remember I was in the water and I was kind of looking up and the two girls get in the water but the last one didn't. At the very last minute, she decided to stay on the boat. And probably 20, 30 minutes in, we're like comfortable in the water. We're doing the dive. The marine biologist who is also on the team is in the water with us. And afterwards, we get out of the water. And I asked every one of their experience, every single person. I was like, what was that like? Because I know what it was like for me. But what was it like for you? Every single person answered the exact same way. terrified before, but as soon as we were actually in the experience,

the fear didn't really matter because we were so engaged in it. And then afterwards, everyone was absolutely elated, was pumped over the moon, except for the girl that didn't get in the water. Because she had this thought of like, she didn't say anything. She was real quiet. But her expression kind of said everything. She wished she had the courage to try. And I think it was just such a representation of why fear stops so many people because they see the scary thing.

They make a predetermination as to how this will go. And then they stay on the boat. And they sit on the sidelines of their life or the goal or the thing that they want to pursue. And you don't realize that like the thing you're afraid of, the courage you need is in the fear you're avoiding. So you need to like, and they literally did. This was at a Pepperdine University. they did brain scans that found fear and courage coexist in the brain at the exact same time. They are in at this same time they're existing in the brain.

In other words, when it's something we are afraid of, we cannot wait until we are ready. We need to train ourselves to do it scared. But most people just judge the situation way before they're actually in it. And they're like, no, I can never run that marathon. I'm not the kind. I failed English class. I had a teacher, Miss H, that told me writing is a gift you're born with and you just weren't. You can never write.

You can never do that. So we come up with all of these reasons as to why we shouldn't. And I think that's what really holds people back is that they don't even let themselves. They don't even let themselves judge the experience for themselves, you know? I wonder, you know, about that girl, right? I mean, I mean, don't get it twisted. I'm sorry, dude. It's inspirational.

I'm not free diving with sharks. There are certain fears that I have that I am completely okay with keeping the rest of my life. One is jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. Okay. The other one is sharks. And the other one is, I'm not going on amusement part, right? So, dude, I'm just, I'm not. Like, I'm sorry.

But I wonder, and this is kind of deep, right? I'm wondering where that girl is now. Like, what is she still afraid to try because she didn't give herself that opportunity when she had it? I think that's the lesson. 100%. And like, we think that the fears that we have are there to protect us when sometimes they are, you know, hot stove, don't touch it. I'm afraid of doing that for sure. That's an intentional decision based on information that you have.

great. But when it comes to fears that I'm afraid of speaking in front of groups, let's actually double click and go a layer deeper on that because I don't think anyone's afraid of speaking in public. I think they're afraid of being judged. They're afraid of messing up. They're afraid of someone thinking that what they say is incorrect. I'm not afraid of speaking. We're afraid of the result of speaking. We're not afraid of starting the business. We're afraid of It making no sales. We're afraid of it not working. We're not afraid of going into acting.

We're afraid that we're not going to get any auditions and not really be able to make a career out of it. So I think if people questioned their fear more often, if they question as to why they're afraid of things. Because for me, to this day, I still, there's so many things I'm afraid of constantly. But I question it now all the time. I'm so skeptical with the things I'm afraid of. Or question, why are you from? What are you really afraid of? Oh, you're afraid of it not working.

Oh, you're afraid you're not going to be able to afford that. Oh, you're afraid that you're not going to be able to stick to it. Oh, so I just, like, I'd encourage people to question their fear, to question what makes them nervous, to question what resistance they have because often the, the, the, the, the, next level of growth you're after is going to be found in the fear you're avoiding. It's going to be found there. It's not going to be found in the thing you're already great at. That's a good point.

Are these principles stuff that you go over in your book? Yes, absolutely. In part, we have a whole chapter on fear because one of the, you know, to build courage, which is your willingness to put yourself into discomfort, into fear, it's one of the steps to building confidence. You need to build a better relationship with fear. It's one of the most important things. Your relationship with fear, your relationship with worry,

your relationship with uncertainty, your relationship with anxiety. It's understanding that some people are just like, I'm afraid of that. And then they never question it. And they never understand the relationship with it. It's like, why am I afraid of that? Oh, I'm afraid because I really care

what other people think. I was terrified of moving to Toronto out of my parents' house when I had $600. I didn't know how I was going to pay rent. And I was like, oh, I'm afraid of moving to Toronto. No, I wasn't. I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to make it last. Yeah. Wow.

You know, it's crazy because when I started the show, when I left corporate America, I was afraid. It's so funny because if you look at my fear and my wife's fear, they're completely different fears. For me, I feared staying in corporate because I couldn't be me. That was the scariest thing ever for me. For her, right, it's the stability. It was the benefit.

Like, everything that comes with, you know, being in a Fortune 500 company and being one of the top salespeople. Like, that's a hard thing to walk away from. Yeah. But for me, the fear was so deafening of not becoming who I felt God intended me to be. So I moved. we weren't ready, you know, and we were white knuckling it for a wide a while, right?

But here we are now, and I think we're just now getting started on something very, very big. But it's because I took action in the presence of fear. 100%. And it's like, I forget who said the quote, but it's like hell on earth is meeting the person you could have become. It's like getting to the end.

of your life, even getting to when you're 60, 70, 80 years old and meeting that person, that you could have been. And it's like, I always, I always think about that, that there's, you know, an 80, you know, there's an eight year old version of you that has all the hopes and dreams that has no limitations, no fears, they will jump off the highest thing in the playground just to see what happens. They have all the ambition. And then there's the 80 year old version of you that has lived a full life that just has memories and can look back and either live a life of you know pride and be super proud and happy and elated with what they'd created or regret you know there's two sort of the two pains in life there's the pain of discipline or the pain of regret

which one we choose is up to us yeah and it's it's simple but it's not easy right so it's like one of those things where we talk about that all day long, but then we talk about, like you said, like getting to the end and having to look, did I accomplish what I wanted to accomplish? I think that's one side of it. And soon, when you and Gabby, right? You and Gabby, is that her Nickette? When you and your wife have kids, it's going to be, you want to be able to inspire your children to do something so massive and so great that if you get to the end of your life and you look, did I do that for them? That is my second part of my fear,

is not becoming who I was supposed to become, and then two, probably one A and one B, to be quite honest, is not inspiring my children to do something really, really big. Like, I want them to look at and say, well, someone said this is hard, but nah, look at my dad.

Look at what my dad did. Like, I'm his, right? Like, I'm his. I'm learning from him. And to me, that's so important because I don't want, like, I'll let certain things with fear. I've been very open about it. Hold me back.

Like the jumping out of a plane. Like, eh, that's fine. I'm not doing that. But like from risky moves to creating a show and a brand out of thin air, I'm going to jump into that all day long. And in fact, my first 20 episodes were in my car. You know, so it was just about doing it, man, about doing it and showing yourself. and showing your kids if you have a child

or inspiring your spouse to be what they want to be. You know? To me, that's what we're here for. And don't wish for it to be easier. Wish for you to handle hard better. You know, don't wish for it to be easy. People are like, oh, the more you do it,

it must be easy for you to wake up at five in the morning, right? It must be easy for you to not take a day. No, no, no. It's not easier. I've just learned to handle hard better. Yeah. Like you just have to learn to handle difficult. And I think now the challenges for a lot of people is that it's become so easy.

Everything. Oh, I want I want food. I'm going to order it and it's going to show up to my door within 20 minutes. And I don't need to see them because I have an option. to say leave at my door. Oh, I want, you know, people say, like I often go into companies or associations and I'm typically the youngest person by 10, 15 years in the room. I'm 31.

But I still am old enough to remember a time where I'd watch my favorite show and I had to wait a week to watch another episode. What a concept. I wish people could vote. now what happens? People watch a show and then they're like, ooh, I like that. I want the instant dopamine. I'm going to watch the other episode. And then you watch another. And then Netflix tries to intervene by saying, still watching. And then you click yes. Don't judge me, Netflix. And then you keep on watching. So I think it's it's it's it's become easier to feel good, but harder to feel

fulfilled. Yeah. Because what's, what's dopamine? It's having something that that makes you feel good short, like in the moment. Okay, so I can just go on to social and, and feel really great. But then you don't earn the dopamine. You don't earn the good feeling. So then it's fleeting. So then you have to manufacture it with more stimulation and more input and more shows and more this. like it's hard, especially for kids right now growing up. It's like everything's solved by an iPad or by a show. It's like I see kids here on, you know, in the community that we live in that are on bikes. And Gabby and I will be driving and I'll see these kids on bikes and they're not pedaling because they're electric bikes.

and I want to get out of the car and just and like somehow short circuit the system to like use your legs. They're going to atrophy. You are nine years old. Like, please use your legs. Do something hard. Challenge yourself. So I think it's all to say that it's never been easier to feel good, but it's never been

harder to feel fulfilled. It really hasn't. good point man good point yeah i was just chuckling at your example about you know you go on and you stream right like i'm i'm i'm 46 i'm almost 47 so i always had to wait a week and then when netflix came i was like oh my gosh or hulu whatever streaming platform i go i can literally watch this whole season but now netflix is starting to mess with me a little bit okay i'm a sucker for my dating shows my wife and i like to go down that rabbit hole and and watch these reality shows and then they cut you off after four episodes. More episodes coming and two, like August 14,

I'm like, I look at her, go, babe, that's two weeks. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? But like, but that's the thing, man. They get you. And it's just like you get so used to having everything on demand. A hundred percent. And then you don't have to like, you don't have to exercise anything, meaning effort or patience. or like resilience or like I remember when you'd have to you'd watch show and you had to like you had to wait a week or even more if you wanted to watch a movie we had to go as a family get in the car we're going to blockbuster and we're going to go rent those days dude we're going to go rent a movie and we all as a family I have two siblings I'm the youngest I don't have a whole lot of

equity in many of the family decisions early on because I wasn't a big stakeholder in that. So like my brother, my sister would leave the charge and we'd go and we had to decide on a movie as a family in person at the store and we'd go and then we'd get the snacks and then we'd check out and we'd rent the movie and we'd watch it. And then it was my job or my brother's job or my sister's job to go return the movie, not pay late fees, which would happen almost every time. because we would forget, but like, oh, you got to go return the movie or the movie wasn't working, so you have to go back, imagine, whenever Netflix says like, oh, this is sorry,

this is please try again, it's not working and people click and they're so annoyed. Imagine you renting a movie, you go into the store, driving in the store, you come back and it's not working and you have to go back. Yeah. To the store. Or imagine when you and your family go, you're excited about that one movie. You go and you see the cut. Oh, there it is, new releases, and you flip behind, there's nothing there.

Yeah. It's gone. 100%. And you go, and you walk up like your sheepish, you walk up to the guy, the guy on the front, just wondering if you had any, you know, in the return box for so and so. And most of the time it's like, no, but that one time we do, you're like, money. Like, let's go. It's going to be a good night.

Yeah, you won a lottery. Yeah. I do miss those days, man. I do miss those days. Or were you had to, like, even with friends, if you wanted to reach a friend, I had to call their home phone. Hi, is Matt there? Hi, how are you, miss?

Like, be polite and engaging conversation. Is Matt there? Yeah, please wait. Okay, hey, I'll come meet you. You go to the house with no phone. You just bike there. You've no GPS. Like, I think it all really comes down to the like,

we've lost that challenge and effort that we were so used to. And I think that's what often builds so much of our confidence because it shows us that we are capable. It shows us that we can do hard things, that we can, you know, weather adversity, that we can do challenging things that we can stay on track. And I think that now we are living in a time where we need to manufacture that for ourselves. Yeah. We really do.

Yeah. Well, dude, this has been fun, man. It's been fun. Thank you for coming on, brother, and sharing who you were with the audience. And, like, there was so many amazing points and coaching aspects that you gave throughout the interview that I think it's really going to resonate with the audience. And, you know, let's definitely stay in touch, dude. I didn't realize you were just across the way, man. It's crazy.

I know, dude. We'll have to do something in person. Yes. You'll have something big again come out. have to read we'll have to do this again but we'll do it you know face to face we'll get that done that'd be awesome well dude i appreciate you man um where can people uh your book uh on your website obviously uh is it just wandbandbandana dot com correct yeah won ben dana dot com or just confident by choice anywhere where you need to buy books so amazon barns and noble we're in target uh walmart uh books and books

All that fun stuff. All the fun stuff. Well, dude, like again, thank you so much. I had a blast with you, man. And let's exchange some contact information and stay in touch. That'd be a lot of fun. 100%. Sean, thanks for having me.

All right, you got it. All right, guys. You heard the man, confidence is earned. Stop looking for the participation trophy in life. And until next time, stay determined. Here we have the Limo-I-Moo in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

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