Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - Reality TV, Risk, and Regret: What Mark O'Brien Learned from Love Hotel

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Mark O'Brien joins Shawn French to unpack what really happens behind the scenes of reality TV, and why he did it anyway. From hang gliding to heartbreak, building million-dollar homes to facing public hate, Mark reveals how risk, adventure, and failure shaped his mindset. This episode isn't about Love Hotel, it's about owning your story, choosing growth, and refusing to let the world define you. 👉 Subscribe for more raw, real talk every week. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You're about to make a trade. Which you do you listen to? Is it get optioning those options? Or let's do a little research. Learn more at finra.org slash trade smart. People that I know that do reality TV that produce it, like dude, they can make you look any way they want. What a cool adventure for, you know, a guy in his 60s.

It's probably a bad decision. I was doing it more for the tacos than the date. I was on a date and I said to the girl, I called her a girl, and she was like, you know, spent the next 90 minutes talking about, you know, I'm a lady or I'm a woman. I said, I understand. I'm full respect. You know what I said to her, which I think is I liked. We talk more and more about less and less and forget the love we bring. If I say, girl, really? You give me a hard time. I mean, when did life become so complicated? sharp french what up let the pain inspire me i put my all and everything i'm doing up until it's done i'm me for the entirety i put in no fatan i'll be working just know i'm a go for mine because i earned it they watch and i know it's time i confirmed it's a whole society determined determine what's up

everybody welcome back to another episode i got a spicy one today for you guys i have mark o'brien here from season one of the very first Bravo competitive dating show called Love Hotel. This dude is dynamic. He's awesome. He's in phenomenal shape. He's a stud. And we're going to hear about his experience on the show, as well as get into some other things that he's gone through in his life to get him to where he is today.

So without further ado, Mark, my man, welcome to the show. Sean, thank you for having me. And spicy. Boy, you're setting me up for like a big letdown. I don't know how spicy it was. than the tacos, but. Well, I mean, you know, tacos are spicy, right? I mean, they're good.

I mean, but if you look at the premise of the show, the way they sold it was, you know, I think it said four horny housewives, you know, check in to Love Hotel. And then here you are with all these other men. What was that like, man? Because that, to me, like, dude, when I look at all these dating shows, you're taking somebody that has, it is a professional in normal everyday life like you, right? You've been a builder. You've been so many different things.

And now you're on display on national TV. And one of the channels that, in my opinion, has the biggest reality stars on the planet, how was it for you getting into that environment and coming kind of like becoming kind of exposed to the public a little bit, right? I needed a drink. And that's vodka, not water. Oh, I love it. Absolutely.

Went in Rome, baby. I watched the show kind of like with one eye closed. So look, I mean, people, I had the whole gamut of people saying, you know, poor judgment, dude, why would you do that? Like, you had a good follow. I got, you know, almost 400,000 followers for, you know, brownstone restoration. You know, I call myself sort of the accidental influencer. My kids are like, that. Why?

How did you become an influencer? I was like, am I an influencer? I don't know. What does that mean? You know, I'm like a caveman. And then from that, I get phone calls to do this show. They said four very successful, well-established, beautiful women. Spicy.

I know they said spicy. But I was like, nah, that's not my thing. I got to. And then, you know, I thought about it. And I thought, well, why not? You know, my motto that I sort of used as a training tool, as harsh or nasty as it might be. It was just fucking do it.

JFD used to write it on the board and I'd stick in front of one of my guys when I had an executive search business and they were trying to figure everything out before they make that call. Then they make the call and guess what? It's busy. This is back before we had email and stuff like that or they don't pick up. So just get it. Just do it.

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Visit good to know facts.org. Have the guy, you know, hang up on you and then call them, back and say like, I'm sorry, you know, don't be disrespected. So, you know, go for it. JFDI. And that's ultimately, I thought, because they came after me a couple of times. They said, I think you'll enjoy it. It's a beautiful resort. You know, it's three weeks, essentially, shot three weeks in September. I've never done anything like that. And I've finally said, yeah, why not? Like, what a, what a cool adventure for, you know, a guy in his 60s. and I'm doing it.

I was doing it more for the tacos than the date. I mean, I was excited to see, you know, to see how it plays out, reality TV. So all of a sudden, I'm, you know, in front of the camera doing stuff. And, you know, my whole, you know, ethos is, you know, you get what you see. Like, you know, I'm a C-Stre. I was never, you know, I've made plenty of bad decisions in my past, but I've learned from them. So I viewed it as, yes, probably a bad decision. Because people that I know that do reality TV that produce it, like, dude, they can make you look any way they want.

So I talked to him about that. I kind of said, look, if you have me do any stupid shit, I'll leave. I don't care. They're probably like, well, you're going to sign a contract. I was like, I don't care. I've got a lawyer on staff practically. I should have a lawyer on staff. So anyway, and it was great.

You know, it was, I met great guys. All the guys were just great. Really fun, funny. The women, which by the way, I would call them girls. And one of the guys was like, they're ladies, they're girls. I mean, they're ladies, they're women. I was like, okay, sorry. And I had a, I got into a long conversation with this guy that gave me a hard time.

And they were all about the same age. I was one of the older people. It was me and one other guy, Ralph, who. is like the lover boy who were the same age. And everyone else is like 40s, 35, up to 40s and 50. So it's a pretty good range of age range. But I was telling him a story that recently I was on a date and I said to the girl, I called her a girl and she was like, you know, spent the next 90 minutes talking about, you know,

I'm a lady or I'm a woman. I said, I understand. I full respect. It's just, you know, my generation or. I don't know, I'm just sort of unfiltered and, you know, but like read the room. Like read the room. Like, you know, I thought of it because it was driving me crazy. It was two things. I said, you know, I grew up very Catholic. So I'd go to church. And I'd see a lot of people that go to church. You know, I went to church with my parents. I didn't really, wasn't my thing. But, you know, I was respectful to my parents. And I saw more assholes, bad people show up at church and people that wouldn't go to church that were super nice people. So I think that's, you know, I just, you know, I'm on this little bit of a tangent because it's sort of important to me. You know, I'm on this show.

I am who I am. I'm a good guy. I'm nice. I'm respectful. I said girls. And, you know, and it just reminded me of that 90 minute argument with this date. And you know what I said to her, which I think is I liked. I'm a big dead head.

I love the Grateful Dead. And I said, you know, we talk, there's a Grateful Dead song called Althea. The last line of the song is we talk more and more about less and less and forget the love we bring. And it's just a great, they were great writers, Garcia, Hunter. You know, people may have mixed emotions about the Grateful Dead, but it was, you know, longstanding going on 60 year anniversary. Anyway, I just thought that kind of said it all about. So when I went there and I heard that right off the bat, I love hotel, I'm thinking, oh, man, is this going to be like a politically correct, you know, read the room. I'm respectful. It's fully respectful. If I say girl, really? You give me a hard time. I mean,

like, when did, when did light become so complicated? You know, it's just, it's just, yeah, just relax, have fun. And that's what I was trying to do. Just be there to have fun. Was I looking for love? Look, I'm divorced, 13 years married, 13 years divorce, still battling. still ugly. We don't want to talk about that, but, you know. I don't think you're very ugly. I don't think you're very ugly. You know? Thank you.

I was calling it the Loveless Hotel because I was just like, I don't know, this is not. I don't think this is going to work, but I'm going to have fun. I'm going to have fun. And I did. And everyone was great. Still friends, like Shannon's daughter, there's around the corner. And so whenever she's in town, we get together. Luann and I have been out a couple times.

I don't want to tell you. But I want to tell you the spoiler. You have to stay tuned. But she kicks me out, actually. And then I come back. Oh, no way. Yeah. And that actually just happened.

Yes, man, I'm confused because it's the long holiday, but a little long weekend. But I didn't even watch it. I've watched one. The first one was the only one I watched. And again, with like one eye closed, people were like, oh, well, you were probably watching the nick game. I was like, no, I wasn't watching the nick game either. That's almost worse.

I was at where was they, where was they, a flat iron room watching blues, a blues band at Flatiron Room, and wondering why it was kind of dead. And I said to my friend, I think it's because the Knicks are playing and Love Hotel is on. They're either watching The Knicks or Love Hotel. Both were successful. The Knicks won. I'm coming back.

Coming back. You know, it's interesting to me because I've had conversations with multiple people who have been on reality shows. You know, mostly love is blind on Netflix, right? And the one thing that they've experienced is once there's a moment, right, to where maybe post-production paints them in a certain light, leaves things out, right? I mean, it's crafting a narrative. It's entertainment, right?

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Message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com. these individuals can, you know, receive a lot of public scrutiny to the point where everybody makes this public opinion, like, that's who you are. And they fire off at him on social media. And it almost becomes this massive echo chamber. I guess bullying is, I mean, cyberbullying, I guess. But I, someone very close to me to this day, anytime he speaks out on something, they bring up some old shit.

just because he said no at the altar. And quite honestly, I think there's more to that. I think that they didn't know that he didn't want to go to the altar. I think they did know that it was going to be a no for him, not no to the woman, but no at that time. And so my whole point of the whole thing is, when you go on these reality shows, you are honestly exposing yourself to a certain narrative.

How did you work through that, or have you experienced any of that in the early goings of the episodes that you've been in? Yeah, I don't. That's the whole crux of it, is that it can come back to bite you. And do you want to, and look, again, I'm like, I hang glide, I mountaineer, I rock climb. I do a lot of stupid shit that I could go ugly. And when I get the butterflies in my stomach to being, you know, terrified and hanging on a cliff and, you know, hang gliding and the wind drops and you, you know, you drop, you know, 200 feet.

That's the thrill. I love that. Like, I, it's a little sick. But I think that's why I like restoring old houses, why I built waterfront properties, while I moved my five kids to New Zealand. I just love the adrenaline rush. So I look at that, like, bring it on. You know, it's a little bit like bring it up.

Bring it on. I've been, you know, divorced, ugly divorce. My daughter at 11 had cancer. She's totally fine now, but, but, you know, it's like horrible shit where you're like, I never, I didn't know how to spell divorce, you know, cancer, like that doesn't happen. That happens to other people and sad. But when it happens, wow, holy shit, it just, man, it's, um, so, like, whatever, I'm 60-something and, uh, bring it on.

Like, people are trying to poke at me, love it. Like, I just, you know, you can't, you're not going to hurt me. No one's going to hurt. Because I've been there. I've been hurt. I've been hit. I've been bashed. I've been, I've had businesses that were super successful and then fell off a cliff.

So, you know, I try to manage it. I talk to the producer and say, and now, look, I'm leaving. I'm leaving. If anything, if you do, have me doing any stupid shit. And they did. They had me dance. I'm like, I don't want to dance. Like, you know, I want to see an old white guy dance.

So, but I, you know, I was whatever. How did that work out for you? Did you bust a move? What did it look like? No, no. I'm like that you could cut that out for sure. Oh, it was fine. It was fine.

It's funny because you know, you're talking about a lot of different things of, you know, basically around the theme of risk, right? And I can relate, man, because when I started this show, you know, four and a half years ago, one of the biggest things I was worried about was how the public would perceive me, take small clips of conversations, and then peanut butter that whole perception to my whole being, right? And what I found is it's a lot less scarier when you're in it, right? Because you're able to do so much and communicate in so many different ways to where hopefully that doesn't happen. But most recently, I was on Pierce Morgan uncensored.

I've been on it twice. The first time, like, that was my first taste, Mark, of actual hate. Like actual- Meaning you were eating on you or you were getting pissed off. No, I was, no, no, no, no. I'm very mild-mannered, you know, when I'm dealing with situations on camera and debates and things like that. But the fallout for me was I was getting torched on X, which I, you know, Twitter, but X.

And then YouTube. And the thing that I said that people twisted to points even like making jokes about my wife and all that stuff was. you know, I was, it was about, you know, the show adolescence, right? It was about misogyny versus masculinity and all that kind of stuff. And I, there was one gentleman on there saying that, you know, the woman needs to be staying at home, caring for the children and making sure they grow up okay and not outworking. Why would you want anybody else raising your kids than your wife? And I made a comment. I was like, me personally, I love the fact that my wife,

as a teacher. I love the fact that she's out there giving back to the kids in the community and teaching them Spanish and seeing her be successful in her own right. She's gone from, you know, being one of the top mortgage professionals in the world to one of the best salespeople in the world. And she took this opportunity in order to provide a better education for our children and put them in a school that was top-notch in the area, right? And you know that, but people take it and they twist it. Oh, they twisted the shit out of it, man. There was one person that says, quote from Sean French,

I also like my wife get in deed down by another man. And I was like, I was like, holy shit. Like this right here, I've never witnessed it. And for the first 20 minutes, I remember where I was. I was at a lacrosse game with my wife. and she was watching some of her students and I was mortified. Like, Mark, I was literally mortified that people were saying these things about me, about her, and how I was a covert feminist and like all these weird things, which I am not, right?

But they perceived me in such a way that I got so much public hate and I called my publicist. I'm like, what do I do about this? And she goes, nothing. Welcome to fame. I'm like, damn. And so that point right there. for me, like I can appreciate the risk of going on a reality show or going on to something like that because, you know, I've experienced it. And it took me four and a half years to

your experience that type of hate. And to the point where the second time I went on, I was expecting bad shit to come afterwards. And it never did, right? But, but dude, like... Because you're not a bad guy. Because you're a good guy. So look, I think the truth never dies, right? never got. If you're a bad guy and you say something you slip, you're trying your best to be on your best behavior. Something slips, chances are people are going to realize, you know, there's other things in the history that were, that kind of connect dots to being a bad guy. But it also should work when you're a good guy and when you're honest and you're real and something gets twisted. Because, you know, look at the news, right? It's all about opinions,

less about facts. And it's become a blurred line between opinions and facts. And so I don't even watch the news. I actually never really did. I read the paper. And I used to get criticized, oh, you know, you've got to, you're going to be a giant businessman. You've got to be up on current events.

I'm like, why? It took me a long time to realize that it's the same cycle, just go over and over and over and same drama, same bullshit, whether it's politics or just, you know, these days it's really gotten crazy because of social media. So it's a whole, taking a whole new turn. But yeah, I just try and not get involved in it as well.

So you, that's kind of whenever I get something negative on mine, I was throwing snowballs off my roof on social media. I went up to do something about, you know, development and construction and building. And it was snowing. There was like four inches of snow and I was packing a snowball and I see somebody

run by and I, and it turned to like, it went like viral. Like, I forget how many million, like six million views or something like that. So funny. Some people would be like, you know, that's really dangerous. You know, you could hurt someone. I'm like, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. What do you say? So you just, I don't say anything. I just like, or I just say, yeah, I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be mean. I was, you know, I didn't mean. It was just fun. I was lobbing them.

It was I wasn't packing them. There was one that I packed. I got carried away. It's really hard. I was talking. There were two guys walking. right over here and I whipped it. And I was just wasn't even thinking.

Most of them I was lobbing and, you know, I was throwing them hard at cars, like whatever. And then with people on this one and whipped it and it went right in between these two guys. And they looked up at me like, I'm going to kill you. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, sorry, dude. It's crazy.

We all do things that, you know, are borderline. Okay, why the hell did I do that? But the thing that I want to really bring home here in this particular part of the conversation is, I think everybody, right, that in this world, they have the right to live their life the way they want to. Like, I don't judge people that believe that their wife should stay home. Hey, if it works for you and your wife's happy and the kids are taking care of, like, do you. Right? But to get on a social platform and just destroy somebody. for how they showed up in a certain moment, right?

Or how you perceive that certain moment to me is just freaking ridiculous. And, you know, reality TV can do that, man. And if you haven't dealt with it much yet with the show, and that's incredible because, like I said, man, I know people that have just been absolutely destroyed. And, oh, dude, it impacts their every move. Imagine, you know, on Love Hotel. as it progresses or whatever, there's something said or an action, and that the cohort of people view that as you. And everything that you put out from that point on,

they tie it back to that one experience. It could have been five years ago. But like that's the risk, man. But to your point, so what, bring it. Right? It's about growth. How did the show, or how is the show helping you as you watch it back? you reflect on you being there.

Is there ways that it's helped you grow in perspective or anything like that? I'd say, like if I was asked to do it again, would I do it? And I probably wouldn't because it's like a one-off. Like I wanted to check it out. So I think it's bolstered my feelings and my confidence. Try everything. You know, I don't know how to say no. So I'll try most anything.

I'll get into the two things I haven't tried, but maybe that's for after we hang up. I'll get some hate mail. But yeah, so I think it just made me realize that, yeah, this is, you know, this life is short. And it's getting shorter and shorter for me. So why not? You know, I'm in my 60s. I've done so many cool things from, you know, having five children to moving to New Zealand, living on the water, sailing to, you know, Newport, Rhode Island to Bermuda, mountaineering.

You know, so it's just, and I'm not a bucket list kind of guy at all, at all. It's just like it came my way. And if I said no, this is how I look at it. If I said, no, I don't do it, always asking yourself, what if? Well, what if I did go on that show? Maybe I would have found love. Maybe I would have found my, which I never really, that was the least of my desires or fears. Maybe it was a fear than anything that I would find true love.

So I just think it's, I think of what if. I think of the, you know, going through life asking, oh, I should have really should have pulled the trigger on that. I've got one thing that I did in my life that I should have done when I was in college and a friend of mine, Mike Switech, had an uncle in Mexico that had a coffee bean farm, and I had my grandfather's old Malibu with a grateful dead sticker on it and red rail with this bar down the road and, you know, classic 1988. And he's like, let's go to my uncle's farm for the summer and work on the farm.

And we'll take your car, we'll drive. And I was like, love that. And I decided against it because we would get a house at Belmar, New Jersey, right? We'd get a house every summer, me and my buddies, we'd have a book. blast. But, you know, we basically get drunk every weekend and run around on the beach and, you know, do stupid shit. And I missed out. And it was just another year of doing stupid shit on, you know, in Belmar or Killington, you know, Vermont. We'd go to Killington, to Belmont, Killington to Belmont, and then bang, hey, why don't we go to Mexico and work on a bean farm?

We'll drive. It'll be like, you know, on the road. And I said, nah, and I wanted to. And I said, no, because my buddies were like, come on, we're going to have a blast. You know, and I did the same old thing. So that's the one thing I regret in my life looking back. There's probably other things, but that stands out. And so if I didn't do this Love Hotel, you know, would I be like really regretted? Probably not that bad, but, you know, why not? Why not?

Because you're afraid that you're going to get canceled? Cancel me. I don't care. I've been canceled before we knew how to spell cancel, right? I had a kick-ass executive search business that fell off a cliff. But because of that, that catapulted me into building homes. I had kick-ass building business, decided to move to New Zealand with my wife and five kids. We got divorced when we were there.

So just fell off a cliff. Came back, built something on the water. I put it on the market for $12 million. Sold it for $7. So fell off a cliff again. But you never give up and find your next adventure. Yeah, I live for adventure. You know what if I if something, if they twist it, because I know I'm not going to do anything stupid.

I mean, maybe a little bit relatively, but I'm not going to, I'm confident in who I am and that I'm a good person. And so if they want to twist it, you know, the truth always never, never dies. The truth never dies. So the truth will eventually come out. It might take time and it might be too late. But then I'm on to something else. So what's after this? 400,000 followers dropped down to zero.

People said to me, how are your followers? I said, I think I lost a few. Really, all the guys, all the guys on the show were not, you know, they weren't doing social media. They didn't know how to spell social media or Instagram. And so they're all about it. And it's kind of cute and funny. They're like, you know, how do I do this? I was like, I don't know.

It's new, right? It's new for them. Yes. So it's kind of fun to watch. And so for me, though, like, have your followers really taken off? I was like, no, I really think they, I've lost some. And because of that reason, you just told your story, like, why would this guy go on on a dating show?

What a loser or whatever they think. And think what you're going to think. You know, I did it for the adventure, for the fun, for the tacos. Well, I think it's commendable, right? Because you mentioned you've sailed from Rhode Island to, I think you said, Bermuda, right? Like all these different things. You've hung off cliffs. You've built businesses.

You went on a dating show. I think life, when you break it down, man, to the simplest form. what it's not about a bucket list right we want to live life in such a way that we create experiences for ourselves because at the end of the day man that's how we get the most out of ourselves that's how we grow as human beings is to experience things that may be outside the norm right again you know when i started this or like who the hell are you like we know what do you what are you actually trying to prove here why are you doing this and for me if i look back i'm going to sell my friends I sit the video to a couple people,

I looked at my first YouTube podcast that I published, and it was mortifying. I was god-awful. It was terrible. My speech pattern sucked. I couldn't even do an intro. There was too many breaks in my speech. I was stuttering, all that kind of stuff.

And I would imagine if I'm those people watching at that time go, I was right. He sucks. But then you just keep going. You keep experiencing more things. You talk to more people, then you refine it, right? But again, what I want the audience to really understand is don't be afraid to do something that's completely outside of your box because you do not know the outcome. You do not know how much it can help you grow.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's, you know, it's sort of how I operate is that, you know, I love, I'm a thrill seeker, right? Like, I love, you know, when, you know, I love hang gliding, shit that people just don't do. And people say, oh, I hang glide too. And I'm like, oh, yeah, like, let me guess. They're tandem, you know, they'll do a tandem hang glide. But to actually get and learn and spend a whole summer to get your license and learn how to, how to jump, you know, run off a cliff and fly like a bird.

So I, you know, I look at that and say that's, that was such a cool thing that lasted for four, six years of my life. you know, this dating show. It's just fun. Like, just have fun. I don't know when we became so precious and so protected and guarded. I mean, I do know when. We did that because it happened when my generation at least started patting the playgrounds. So heaven forbid that Johnny falls off the swing and cuts his or breaks his arm.

When I was a kid, everybody was in a cast. It was a badge of honor. You want to sign my name on your cast and say something stupid on your cast. And now, you know, no one's ever got a cast anymore because we're all, you know, we got our head gear and our protective eye gear and our earplugs. And, you know, it's what I saw a friend was it that had their kid at like a concert and they had big ear, ear things on. So like, just like, come on.

I don't know. Like, relax. We've got so uptight. Jesus Christ, it's really pathetic. It's really pathetic. And I've got five kids that are stuck in it. So I just tell my kids, be nice, be nice to people, be honest, be good people, and be interesting. Do cool shit.

You know, work hard, be nice, and do cool shit. Whatever that means to you, whether it's being an artist or being a, you know, a hedge fund person. None of my kids are hedge fund people. They're all C students also, which is torture for kids. That was a C student too, man. I mean, God, if it wasn't for baseball, I don't know if I would have made it through college. Really? Well.

I mean, I had to graduate, right? I had to have at least the C to play, you know, because like those values weren't really instilled in me when I was a child. It was like, do you have homework? I'm like, yeah, no. Okay, cool. Yeah, no. Hey, my kids walk into the house and my wife says, hey, do you have homework? They're like, no, let me see your binder.

Right. Like on it, right? but she comes from a third rule country. She grew up and, you know, she's born and raised, Kito, Ecuador. So it's like education for her was her way to get to the state. So, you know, completely different ideologies. But, you know, I want to go back to the thrill-seeking thing, right? Because, like, again, you've done a lot of cool thrill-seeking things in the adrenaline

aspect of hang gliding, which, dude, I'm sorry, that's batshit crazy. I'm never, I'll never skydive. I'll never do anything like that. I'm just not willing to take that risk. Like for me, like, I'm good. And that's one fear I'm not willing to get over, right? But I respect the people that do. But when you look at all those thrills and all that adrenaline,

how did the filming of the show and going on to it, did any of that type of adrenaline translate to the show? Or was it just kind of whatever to you? Sure. I would talk a bit about the, you know, I get butterflies in my stomach. I'd be the first moment when we walked out. And, you know, I think everybody was nervous.

And, you know, I think that's, you know, that's the adrenaline pumping through your body, which for that to happen, you know, as we get older, I think that's cool. I think it's great to do things that scare you and that, you know, are an adventure. So, yeah, I was, you know, butterflies. I'd be nervous, be like, you know, I felt like a kid, like a kid going on a date. And I'll say, I did realize something about myself on this show. The more we talk, the more things kind of open up. And I realized I like to be in control.

So I kept saying to the producers, I know what I want to do. I want to go. And I'd be all excited. I'd be like, can you guys get some paddle boards and or a sailboat? And like if you want to bring a camera guy and they must have been like, what? Who do you think you are? What do you think? We're not going to get a sailboat or paddle boards. You know, we've got $1,000, you know, the necklaces, by the way, that we were wearing are the microphone. And so they're all crazy with, if it goes in the water, you're paying for it. So I actually at one point was jumping from table to table, you know, how they have in these resorts, tables in the pool. And I was jumping from table to table. They're like, stop. You're going to fall in. I was like, I'm not going to fall in. I guarantee I will for it. Anyway, I digress. I felt like the nerves and the excitement was a little bit like hang gliding or mountaineering.

And like why? Like the memories typically, and this might be opposite. The memories typically like mountaineering are better after the event. While you're doing it, you're saying, why am I doing this? I have a headache. I can't breathe. I'm freezing cold. And then the memories are great.

Love Hotel, and your version of it could be the memories were pretty cool. I mean, it was kind of fun. But then the backlash and how they, you know, how people perceive you, maybe I'll start getting, maybe the memories won't be as good. But, yeah, again, I feel like a memory is a memory, whether it's a good memory or a bad memory. It's a memory. And you learn from it, maybe you shift a little bit. but yeah it's I don't see any any down downside so you know people will try the trolls will try to poke you but I don't see anything oh they sure will man yeah they're out there they're out there and also with with hang gliding you know you could die hang gliding that's why I stopped I had two friends get killed flying into trees and shit but um Jesus like it's love hotel it's you know stupid it's stupid civil

shit and if people think it's poor judgment. Mm-hmm. Good. Fair. Some of my best, the most fun events are poor, come from poor judgment. So it's a good point, right?

It's good point. I don't think it's bad judgment. I think it's, like again, we go back to experiences, right? And the nerves and the butterflies, you know, before the dates and things like that,

did any of those impact your ability to be, you completely and you go back to you're like man i could have been myself more in this situation here um you know in a lot of times right when we're in those situations we're not ourselves we're saying what we think people want to hear instead of just being truly who we are can you think of anything like that yeah i mean that's that that that was the most difficult part and i think that was point i was trying to make and i got i got sidetracked a little bit with you know me trying to create my own date, but they had all of the dates set up. You know, they knew exactly where you're going on your date.

It's just a matter of who's going with who. And they had the whole setup because they had to have cameras. And I get it. The production for that was massive. It was impressive the amount of production that goes into shooting this. So that was cool. That was even fun for me to see. I mean, you would appreciate it as well, being, you know, in front of a camera to see what

these big networks, Peacock Bravo, see the kind of money they spend on the back end to pull it all together is 10 cameras, 15 producers, everybody's sort of trying to, no one's telling you what to say, but they're kind of poking you a little bit and kind of putting a little bug in your ear

about so-and-so said something, something. So I tried to do my own dates. I said, I want to go paddleboarding, I want to get on a sailboat, And I couldn't do it. They're like, no, you're not doing it. You're going, where was my date? My date was like a, like some kind of party or something and dancing, I think.

And I found it very difficult. And this is what I realized, is that I like being in control of setting up the date. Like last night I had a date. We went to see jazz, actually a blues band play at the Flatiron Room, really cool, really great environment. You know, it was just, and I've been there before. So I, and I just know what, in the last couple weeks, I went to the Russian Turkish bathhouse, go with a date to the Turkish bathhouse.

You do the plots where they hit you with the branch. And it's just great. If you haven't done it before, to bring someone and it's kind of down and dirty and it's not like a super fancy spa, it's an old Russian bathhouse. And then go to Mogadour Cafe, which is a place that, on St. Mark's in the East Village, down and dirty, but it's been there for 45 years. It's just a top-notch, really great date. And I'm sort of curating it. So I'm there, and I'm on somebody else's date, essentially. And I'm not digging it. I'm like, that's some stupid luau dance.

You tip your hat and you're doing like a line dance and all the people, very nice, but they're showing you their tradition of, and I'm like, I don't go to resorts. I don't go on cruise ships. I don't do, I go skiing or mountaineering. My honeymoon was mountaineering, which is probably why I'm divorced. We climbed a 21,000 foot mountain on Illamani in Bolivia or Peru, I think it's in Bolivia, but we were back and forth between Bolivia and Peru, but, so they curate this date and I'm like, this is so stupid. And I'm not enjoying it. And they got in the cameras,

you know, I don't know. How do you, how do you, some of the guys did it very well, actually. Earl was great. Like, you would never know that he had a camera. And he's, he's talking, you know, sentimental's with Shannon. I didn't even have an opportunity. I was with going after Luann, Luann, you know, lived in New York. I live in New York. She's a countess. I was like, I've never been with a countess. Let me check that out. You know, it's interesting. No, I mean, hey, it's a good play, right?

It's a good play. But, like, when you're going through all that, I'm just thinking of this one thing, right? It's called control, right? And when we control situations, one of the audience to really understand is that when we try to hold on too tightly and we don't go with the flow or let things happen as they may, because we can only control what we can, right? And in your case there, you're trying to control. the date which took away from your experience on the actual date, right? Because it didn't line up

with what you wanted to do. And so it's just interesting to me because we do that as human beings all the time, right? I'll try to control a situation, which then takes me out of the presence of the moment. And so whatever's happening, I'm judging that every freaking second. I'm like, this sucks. This is not what I want to do. And from that point on, I'm never bringing my full self to that moment, if that makes sense. Yeah, you know, look, I think I did step up and I was, I was not, it was not like a little, like a little, you know, brat. Like I don't want to do this.

You know, it was fine. I was there. It is what it is. So I am pretty good being able to adapt and, and play along. But yeah, I think it did set me off a little bit. And I just was not myself. I just could not, you know, and then I don't know if it was that or the cameras. I'm sure it was a combination of both.

And I got to say, there wasn't great chemistry with any of the women. I like them all. They were great. They were fun, friendly. I still talk, as I mentioned a lot, and I get together a lot with Shannon, which is in town. And Luann, Luann and I have been out in the city, you know, three, two or three times since we got back. and we communicate a bit. So it was, it was, you know, super fun.

I always talk about the guys, you know, I started dating Waleigh because he and I connected. I didn't go, oh, my God, is that going to go, go sideways? I enjoyed hanging out with the guys. We'd work out every day. I enjoyed hanging out with the women. We worked out every day as well. You know, there wasn't great connection. You know, I think we all tried or I tried, and I think they, you know,

Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded, so you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like T-time U. Or this T-time you. Or even this T-time U. Said you hear about Dave?

Or even T-time, T-time, T-time, T-time U. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great. But, yeah, I did, I did try. And I was not, you know, I don't think it showed that I was, it wasn't my idea to go to a lot, do a line dance on my date. I'd rather be on a paddleboard or do something active like that on a sailboat or a romantic sailboat.

You know, let's, you know, grab the, turn. Let's, you know, jive, it's tack. You know, we've got a breeze coming. And look, maybe that says something. Maybe I need distraction in my life. So I'll call myself out on that. I'm sure some of the women, if they watch this, would go, oh, yeah, he's, I know his type. He's got to be doing something.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. You know, the one thing, the overarching theme here, right, as we land the plane and in the show is, you're bringing up some really good points of your experience on the show, on Love Hotel. but the one thing that I'm really hearing and feeling is, although, you know, things on the show didn't work to your way or how you'd want them to play out, you built relationships, man.

You know, with the two women that live in, you know, New York, you still get together with them, your friends with them, you built relationships with the guys. You now have people in your life that you didn't have prior. And I think what needs to be really understood about all of this is to not judge a situation or judge an experience, but to see what you can build from it. And you've clearly done that, man. So it's, it served your life. Maybe didn't bring you love, but it brought you connection in other ways. And I think that's powerful. Yeah. No, absolutely.

And Luanne would be, like, come to this party, you'll like my girlfriend. So I was like, you know, great. And we would go. And, you know, it was all fancy people. Maybe that's the problem. I'm not that fancy. So I don't, like fancy stuff would be, I would be a little like, this is way too fancy. I'm a simple dude too, man. I don't like, you know, too much fanciness. But, you know, it's just at some point in time, I'm going to have to dive into that and understand like, hey, maybe this is here to serve me just a little bit. So, but dude, like, I just appreciate chatting with you today. You know, I know a lot about you. And, you know, it's nice to see somebody that's so free and open to adventure and to do things that are uncomfortable in life because again life is all

about doing the things that we don't really want to do right in order for us to grow as a person and you are a poster boy of that right you're flying off a listen to don't interrupt but this is exactly that like i would love to sit down with you and spend an hour and on one of your podcast because they're kick-ass and talk about my career and my my you know just my life and and not love hotel so when you said love hotel i was a little like i you know i don't know if i want to talk about love hotel it's not it's not necessarily a highlight but it is it is you know current it's a current event so get it and and it kind of freaked me out and i said fuck it let's do it i want to i want to do it because i want to be you know in this in this situation and and yeah and thank you

for, you know, sort of bringing out some stuff. I've got to go talk to my shrink. Damn it. Well, hey, man, that's what I do, right? That's what we do. But I appreciate you, man. And I'm looking forward to staying in contact with you. I have your info on social.

So I'll reach out. And, man, maybe one day when I'm up in NYC, we can get together. I got family up there. So it'd be good to meet you in person. And, man, keep doing what you do. And I just appreciate you, man. so so much. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on. This is fun. Absolutely. And for the audience,

understand that you can only control what you can control. And what will serve you best in life is submitting to certain things that are uncomfortable because you do not know what you're leaving on the table if you don't do that. So share this episode with someone you know, love and trust who needs to hear the message. And I encourage you guys that have listened to go back and listen to it Again, and hear the messages that are buried inside of this conversation and don't take it for face value just about a reality dating show because it's been much, much more. And until next time, guys, stay determined. What else?

Doing up until it's done. I meet for the entirety. I'm putting over time. I'll be working. Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time. I confirmed it. A whole society determined.

Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a call. are your way.