Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - Rick Macci: The Coach Behind Serena & Venus Williams Success

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

He’s the man behind the greatest tennis story of all time. Rick Macci—Hall of Fame coach, global tennis icon, and the man who coached Venus and Serena Williams from the beginning—joins The Determined Society for an unforgettable deep dive into greatness. In this rare and candid interview, Rick opens up about his early days in Ohio, discovering talent before the world does, and the mindset that turns prodigies into world champions. From Richard Williams’ wild conviction to the truth behind King Richard, Rick holds nothing back. This episode covers: -What he really saw in young Venus and Serena -Why talent alone isn’t enough—belief, energy, and grit matter more -Stories from coaching Maria Sharapova, Andy Roddick, Jennifer Capriati & more -The difference between a coach and a mentor -What King Richard got right—and what it didn’t -Why failure is a requirement on the road to elite -His view on parents, youth sports, and the next generation of champions Connect with me : https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGA Rick Macci https://www.instagram.com/rickmaccitennis/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com. She's always on the attack, the little panther. Oh, that's why you call it a little panther. Yeah. Dive into Vlada a little bit. A good friend of mine, Peter Bodo, he said, Rick, there's this little girl from Ukraine. You need to take a look at.

I've seen that movie like 10,000 times, you know. Vlada, the racket was like as big as her. She got on the court. She just had just burning desire. It was personal between her and the ball. This little girl will be number one in the world. And if she doesn't, I did a bad job. There she is.

What an honor. Sit down. Her work ethic is unsurpassed. Where do you think that comes from? Just my mind. Love that. I love tennis. You love tennis.

She's a little kid that has a lot of potential to be one of the best tennis players in the world. You can correct me the best. I know. Okay, the best in the world. So, Rick, we're here at Rick Macy Tennis Center here, Boko Raton. This has been the home of training for so many amazing tennis players. the Williams sisters, Annie Roderick, Jennifer Capriotti, Marie Sharapova. And now, right now you got Vlada, Vlada, her ranchar out there who's a junior who's going to, you know, in your opinion, be the next number one in the world.

Walk me through the journey of this amazing facility you have here, training all these athletes and everything that it's brought. Well, you know, first off, if I can back the truck up a little bit, everybody asks me like, who's your favorite student of all time? And people might say Venus, Serena, Capriotti, Roddick, Sheripova, Kenan, Pierce, Rood. I coach Rood, Christian Rood, Casper's dad, not the one that's top 10 in the world. But it's who's ever on the other side of the net, that hour, that minute, that second. And that's the way I feel. And when you coach from the heart, that's how you extract greatness. And that's what I do, you know, and the kids can feel that.

And I can get them to move mountains. So whether I'm coaching you or an adult player, it doesn't really matter. But obviously, I've been known for the people that want to want to achieve greatness. But I don't really change strokes. I more importantly change lives. And when they come back... When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life.

And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at good to know facts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit good to know facts.org. They don't talk about the forehand or the backhand or the serve. It's all about never make excuses, run for every ball. The harder you work, you'll feel like you're hardly working. I can go on with the macyism.

And I love it just as much today at age 70 as I did at age 22. And that's the best feeling in the world, and I'm making a difference to people's lives. See, that's legacy, right? You're building that. You said something that spoke to me. You said, who's your favorite, like whoever's on the other side of the net? Because that gives an amount of presence to that individual, that player,

and they feel that love and they feel that care. So they work extra hard. And they're in that moment with you. You know, it's funny to me because a lot of times, I was a baseball coach for a lot of years. And people always ask, who's your favorite athlete? It had to have been this one. Who was your favorite catch?

I'm like, the ones that were there to work. Like, the ones that understood that I'm there to coach them, that I loved them and respected them. And to give them a positive experience, I think coaching is a lost art. I think a lot of people view coaching as working with the players that just have great skills. But to your point, it's about every single person.

Absolutely. You know, I kind of like the ones that are more of a challenge. If someone's a little lazy, I can flip the script and get them to do their homework better, clean their room. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text. But which you do you listen to? Is it, we could buy a house in Tulum? Get optioning those options. We could lose everything.

Or let's do a little research. Get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you. Learn more at finra.org slash trade smart. Get off drugs. See, I look at this very differently through a different lens. The tennis part is easy because we're the worldwide leader in biomechanics. My partner, Dr. Brian Gordon, has his thesis on this stuff. We're pretty much a worldwide leader and mechanics of how to hit a ball.

But the motivation and the stimulation, that's kind of what I do. and I extract greatness and I just expect it from myself. So the ones that maybe have a bad attitude or don't want to work, I kind of like that because now it's that game between Rick and Rick. Now, if you get someone that never makes excuses and runs for every ball and goes for the jugular like Vlata or whatever, then obviously it's easier. But it doesn't matter.

I just love helping anybody anytime anywhere. I think the key, though, to everything you just talked about is we're talking about getting kids to clean their room better, do their homework better, stay off or get off drugs. That is impacting someone's life. Coaches, a lot of times get in a place where they're just trying to go win championships or to take credit. Like, I coach that person. When you can make an athlete's life better just for them, but also it helps the parents out at home and they can be good citizens and give back to the world positively, that's the real win in my opinion. No, absolutely. And people have spent all the time. Why don't you go sit in the box? You know? And I do this differently. I go to Publix, buy it on aisle four, put it in the oven. I bake it. I put the icing on it. I'd rather build the box than sit in the box. Now, if that happens, that's great. But I'm a busy guy. I still teach 50 hours a week. Maybe with Vlada, because I coach her and repress. Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take it. take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you.

Like tea time you. Mmm. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. Said you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave.

It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rince. It's time to be great. That could be a little different dynamic when she goes pro. but at the end of the day, that's kind of how I've always been put together, you know. And when you talk about coaching, it's such a vague word because the art of coaching is how to say it, when to say it, why to say it, when to say it, how loud to say it, how soft, how to talk to an eight-year-old

opposes someone on the pro tour and taking the temperature. You know, I can feel the temperature every second with the player how to navigate this. Even on their worst day, I can get the most out of anybody because instead of just mailing it in like a lot of people do. And I could, you know, with everything I've been fortunate to accomplish. But I've never been put together like that. And anybody listening to this, if you're always trying to get better, to me, that's the leader in the clubhouse. Because getting better is a lot better than getting worse. And I prefer better.

Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of selflessness in coaching. Well, done the right way. Right. So, you know, that's really what the deal is. When you say, why aren't in the box? I want to bake it. I want to put the icing on it, but I want to be in the box. I want to build it. And that is true coaching because you realize it's not about you. You're there as a vessel to help somebody bring their gifts out to make their life better so they can operate in their own genius. I think that's amazing. Absolutely. You know, even when I took on the project with the William sisters, I took a risk. I took a gamble. I could have been wrong. I knew I wasn't going to be. You know, I mean, there was arms and legs and hair and beads flying everywhere. Yeah. You know, before that whole thing, I had Jennifer Capriotti.

And she was poetry and motion, rack it back in the parking lot, low center of gravity, great fundamentals by the late great Jimmy Everett. And she was top 10 in the world at 14. She won the national 18s as a 12-year-old, a record that still stands a day. Are you kidding me? 12 years old, went in the 18th. Okay. So at the end of the day, you know, this is kind of what coaching is all about for me.

You know what I mean? Just trying to help anybody anywhere, you know, and it's not where you start. I always look at this as a bigger picture and I have a vision and I can evaluate talent, just like the William sisters. I didn't see it at first. And then we started playing competitive points. After about an hour when I was in Compton, I was going, what the hell? heck am I doing in Compton, you know?

Looking back, I'm the only guy that says her best vacation ever was Compton. I read that somewhere. You're going to have to explain that one. Yeah, no. Well, but back to the Venus and Serena. Once we started competing, okay, we were doing drills at first, and it was a train wreck. I mean, Shrina, a plane would fly over and she'd wave at it. I'm going, whoa, I'm not thinking this girl is going to be the greatest of all time.

And we start playing competitive points, and the whole landscape changed. They started popping the popcorn extra butter. The preparation got better. But there was a rage. There was a rage inside these two little kids. I haven't seen my whole life until the little Ukrainian. I never saw that. I never saw that.

And when you're all about the competition, and that was 9 and 10, baked in double crispy from birth before Rick Macy, I knew they'd handle pressure better. I'm not saying they'd be bullies. Because everybody gets nervous, they would be almost bulletproof. Because when the bell wrong, they were very different. It was all about the competition.

And that's how you handle pressure. So that's what I saw in VW. And I told Richard, I sent this in the movie. After I saw this for 20 minutes, I go, Richard, come here. Let me tell you something. You got the next female Michael Jordan on your hand. And he puts his arm around me, goes, no, brother, man. I got the next two.

You know, and I go, I like the way you think, you know. But Serena wasn't that mature, but I was picturing both of them, six feet, 160, 511, a buck 45, big, strong, fast, quick, where women's tennis in the late, early 90s, if you were big and strong, you weren't nimble. They were going to bring a whole different element to the sport. So not only that I think they could be number one with the right coaching and financial help, I thought they could transcend the sport. This is all on video and articles.

And, you know, I was almost like psychic in the way I felt. So to go all in and buy them a $92,000 motorhome and a golf cart and a condo on the golf course and my time and hitting partners and taekwondo and boxing and ballet, Disney tickets, you know, seafood buffet, the whole enchilada to go all in like that is because, When I believe, I just achieve. I pick up little things, man. Like very little things. I'm picking up a light switch mentality, right? As soon as a disco lights come on, I'm using baseball terms now,

disco lights come on, we're dancing, disco lights. It's done, you know, either you can play with the lights on or you're sitting over here. So what I'm hearing,

there was a certain gift that they had mentally that the moment the competitiveness started, it was a different individual, right? and then you're going into another conversation about ballet in taekwondo. This is for the audience here and the parents that are taking their children, because you and I talked about this off air a little bit about crazy sports, parents,

things like that. When you have a child that is playing a sport and you think they have all the promise in the world, there's too many people, in my opinion right now that are specializing their children too soon, not exposing them to other movements. You mentioned boxing, taekwondo, and ballet. They're tennis players. Why is that important? Well, first off, another great question.

They were already athletic. Venus was like an Olympic sprinter with a racket in her hand. And Serena was built like a cornerback in the NFL. Yep. She had muscles on muscles at 10 years old. But she wasn't that good. And when she got good, people said, steroids. No, she was just put together that way.

And that's one of the things Richard liked about, me, even though they were so athletic, my goal was simple, triple down, make them more athletic, cross-training, but make it fun. They'd go around the court with a cone on their head, doing a hula hoop, taking two-pound dumbbells, and doing curls. They threw the football, because the serve is like a throwing motion. They threw the football more than anybody. Okay, there was so much cross-training to make it fun because, listen, kids could be dead tired. But when you make it fun, whether they play tag or whatever, they're going to get better. But so many parents just about repetition, they drive the kid into the ground, and they don't understand that this is a journey.

It's a junior development, not junior final destination. And while we're on the cross-training, this is an epic story. Serena loves this. We go, we have a sand pit. Okay. And the kids all go in the Sam Pitt and they play tag. You know, you go and you chase someone, tag them. Serena, when she was it, she's the only person I've had in the history of my career that played tag with a close fist. Okay, that was that Compton Street fight coming out. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Serena, wait, wait, we got to, listen, I don't want to get sued here. Punching people. Yeah, no. You got to play with your hand open, you know, she loves that story. We talked about it at the after party. She just was on the ground crying. but that's the competitiveness.

And that's what I saw in them. And that doesn't mean you're going to be number one in the world. You can be competitive and work at Burger King. Okay, it doesn't matter. But then when you start checking boxes, speed, quickness, strength, you know, dedication, bulletproof, competitiveness. When you got some of that in your pocket, it's Rick Macy's job to put Humpty Dumpty together technically and strategically of how to play a game that's going to be. going to go into the next the future. And that's what I'm doing with Vlada. Vlada is going to play

very different because six, seven years from now, the game's going to be quicker and faster and we're going to be ahead of the curve. So I just met her out there. You know, he took me out there and watching that was she nine, 10? Like, how old is she? She's nine. She's getting up there like me. She's nine years old. She's, uh, she's almost your age. Four foot six, uh, 65 pounds. Unbelievable athlete. Timing. like everything. Everything. You can hit whatever at her

and she's going towards the ball, towards the opponent. And you mentioned something out there that I thought it was a very good point. She's not playing the opponent. She's playing the ball. Explain to the audience what that really means because, and I want to clarify it

because I'm a baseball guy. And I saw a clip of Barry Bonds with the greatest hitter of all time in my opinion. Say whatever you want about the steroids or whatever. The dude can hit. And he said, I wasn't trying to get a hit. I was just trying to beat the pitcher.

So meaning I was just trying to put the ball in play. He simplified it that much. And if I hit the ball and play, I win. And so it triggered that when you told me about Vlada, about going and playing the ball. That's what the great one, Barry Bonds did. So explain to them in tennis terms what that really means. Well, I probably, it's a mindset.

And this is what I do with the players. You know, I look and I have them look at things to a different lens. And I tell people all the time what you may see is different than Rick may see, okay? That's a Macyism right there you go. I'm hearing all of them. They're good. They're good. No, listen, it's you're, you're, I haven't played the ball because, you know, you are playing a person and you should know what, whether you're a batter or in a pitcher.

You know what they can and can't do. And all the dirty work is done before the match. You know the strengths and weaknesses and the game plan. But when you go out there, you're playing the ball. You're a performer. Okay, you're playing the ball. It's about you. You're playing a faceless person.

And I got to train the person if they buy in to think like that. Because greatness thinks different. Everybody's good. Okay, great is rare air. I train great. I've helped build it. I've seen it. I've seen it go right, left, up and down.

And I know how this is done and you got to buy in. So you can see Vlada, no matter what comes. Sure, sometimes you got to go back and you've got to be on your back foot. But it doesn't matter she's programmed to go to the ball. Okay. So with that being said, it doesn't matter size, strength, or what anybody's bringing at her. Someday, whether it's Coco, Sabalinka, whatever, she's playing the ball. And that's been put in her head at eight, nine.

As we go down the yellow brick road here, and you're playing the ball. Okay. And she's already cleared that hurdle. Okay. And a perfect example is the Williams sisters. No one saw when they went into pro tennis, people hit on the run with firepower and flip the script and go from defense to offense. Because usually when you're in a little bit of trouble, you go upstairs and live another day. They looked at as an opportunity.

on the run, I wanted them to attack where the rest of the world might lob. See, it's all about the art of coaching. Now, you got to have the thoroughbred to win the derby. I get that, but they still got to buy in. You know, you want to eat chicken, not be a chicken. And I train different because everybody under pressure, I don't care, NBA, NFL, everybody's going to get a little tight. They're going to prevent defense.

They try not to lose. So I do it 360 the other way. attack, swarm, in the face, cut the court, play the ball early. And if you look at some of the girls that I've had that went on for greatness, Venus, Serena, Capriotti, Sheripova, Kenon, Pierce, Mesquina, all these people that have won grand slams, they play kind of the same. They cut the court, they hold the base sign, they take the ball early. They're dealing the cards and running the show, and they're the ones dictating time. They're playing on their terms. then if you got to use your speed to counter punch, that's easy.

So this is kind of how I train and no one's bought in more than the little panther. I don't call her Vlad. I call her the panther. She's always on the attack, the little panther. Oh, that's why you call her Little Panther. Yeah. Dive into Vlad a little bit. Tell the audience about who she is, where she's come from.

And, I mean, obviously, we know what track she's on. But, yeah, I know, you know, it's a unique situation. A good friend of mine, Peter Bodo. senior writer, Tennis.com, one of the best writers in tennis history. He said, Rick, there's this little girl from Ukraine. They're up here in Vermont, New York. You need to take a look at. Okay, well, I've seen that movie like 10,000 times, you know?

Like daily. I get that all the time. So I said, listen, send me a video. He sent me a video. I saw some good stuff, but it wasn't like, whoa. Just like the Williams is. When I saw it, it wasn't like, whoa. Okay.

I said, listen, if they ever want to come to Florida, they can come. I'll check her out and see what's going to happen. So a couple months later, they decided to drive all the way down. And they came and they came on a Saturday, just like yesterday. They came on court six. I was on the court giving a lesson to a 12 year old boy, met the mom and dad, super nice people. Vladda, the racket was like as big as her. She got on the court and right off the bat after hitting a few, we start playing, once again, competitive point. Because I wanted to get right to the competitor. Within five minutes, I saw the speed, I saw the quickness, I saw, this is the coach, I saw how tall she's going to be with the mom, I saw the athleticism, the focus, okay,

and she just had just burning desire. It was personal between her and the ball already. And I'm sitting there going, I need to change her forehand, her backhand, her shirt. I need to show her how to hit the ball at the highest level, okay, biomechanically. I mean, she was in the neighborhood, but not the neighborhood it takes to be elite. Right. But all the internal stuff was there. Then the more I got to know her as the morning went on, it was a home run. Okay.

And so at the end of the day, I talked to the parents. I said, listen, if you want to come here, I'll give you a scholarship, you can train in the academy, so on and so forth. That was it. So they said, we're coming. We want to be around Rick Macy and the environment. That was it. No contract. So then she's here a month.

Now I'm seeing it every day, live and in color. And I'm saying, you know what? Maybe even at this stage of the game, I can really help this family because she needs me. And I'm out there teaching 50 hours, you know, so I don't have a lot of time to give to her, especially for free. like I did with the Williamses, and she needs hitting partners and maybe boxing and stretching. So we start talking. They said, listen, we would feel honored to do a contract. So it went back and forth a while.

So I entered into a contractual relationship the second time in my life. The only other time I did anything like this was with the Williamses. And signed a 20-year contract that I'm going to represent her besides coach her. and I'm helping out the family. Obviously, they need help. And hopefully I'm around to see the end game, but at the end of it doesn't matter. Right. I'm making a difference, Sean, in someone's life and making this little girl's dream come true.

And as you just saw, Humpty Dumpty's been put together. She just has to grow, have fun, you know. She couldn't even speak that great English. Now she's like the master. Well, how long has she been here? I couldn't even tell. 2,023 December. Okay.

Wow. And she takes English and, you know, so it's just, it's taken on life of its own. Her accomplishments, no one's improved so fast, so quick. For 12, she plays 12 and under. She's already like three in Florida, top 10 in the nation, 7 point something UTR. But that doesn't matter. I don't care if she wins or loses. every day got to get better.

And I don't look at her as four foot six, 65 pounds. I look at her just as I would teach a pro. I expect her to make every ball. I expect her to make every ball. I expect her to do everything right during Perthie. Even though I know three more inches, 20 more pounds, the whole landscape changes, man. It changes big time.

It's a whole different animal then. Okay. And the great thing about this, she came here at age eight. So I don't have to rush. I can go in the front door, the side door, the back door, the basement, the chimney to figure it out if I got to tweak and modify. And I know how to put this together because the game is probably going to be a lot different eight years from now, quicker, faster, better technology. But the game that I'm putting together on the Panther, people, it's going to blow their mind.

barring injury, because you never know what that could happen. Sure, of course. I have no doubt this little girl will be number one in the world. And if she doesn't, I'm not going to happen overnight. If she doesn't, I did a bad job. That's what I expect to myself, because I believe in her as much as I believe in myself. It's amazing, you know, just hearing that because, you know, when you talk about the game changing in eight years, Is there any way with tennis to predict the potential changes?

Like I know you mentioned faster, stronger, better technology. Are you able to stay ahead of that or think and think in terms of, okay, based on your experience, this is what I could see would be coming up in order for me to help her be better? Yeah, I'm able to, because I'm a visionary. I always look at the bigger picture. I know where this is going to go with her and the speed of the game, you know? but she's already, she's playing the ball. They're not going to change the court or whatever.

So I've already got her to buy in, you know, like a boxer. No one backs you up. You just stay in there. You know, like Joe Frazier, you just stay in there and keep punching, you know, and she'll be able to cut the court. So yeah, I'm way ahead of this thing. And obviously with my partner and biomechanics, there's always going to be adaptations and modifications.

You can see Sinner, when he hits the ball, it comes off his racket very different. He has like two pronations on the forehand. I don't want to get too deep here. The way people at the ball now is very different than 10 years ago. A very different joke. But I know this stuff inside out and there's not a wrong way or a right way. There's a better way.

And I'm going to find the better way for the little panther. The little panther. I love that nickname. I love it. It's always on the tack. A little panther, but a big heart. Yeah, she'll be a big panther soon. I have an idea.

Come here. There she is. Wow. What an honor. Sit down. How you doing? Ask her a few questions. She has to go do homework.

All right. You have homework to do, right? All right. So talk to me about how you view tennis. Like how you view tennis. What do you think of tennis? Whatever you want to say. Talk into the microphone.

Oh, wait, there's a microphone. I love the competition and I love to play kids like and I like to kids and yeah I love it so you wait do you like to run I love to run so you love to do the work yeah because you realize the work's going to make you great right yeah so by the way her work ethic is unsurpassed I love that it's unsurpassed I love that she's the size of this microphone it's unsurpassed you know what I mean she plays big though she plays big if she didn't have that work ethic we wouldn't be here where do you think that comes from?

Just my mind. Love that. I love that. So you get here at 5 a.m. every day? Yeah. And it is now 250. Yeah. So you've been here almost 12 hours.

Yeah. And it looks like you're lit up like a Christmas tree, just happy as can be, right? Yeah, I love tennis. You love tennis. How important are your parents? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that they've given you any type of edge with the work?

ethic and that mindset that you have. Yes. Yeah. You got great parents. Thank you. You've been running on the beach with your mom since how old, didn't you? Four, five. Yeah.

Her mom does a lot of the exercises with her. Her parents are like unbelievable and there's such balance in her life. You know, listen, she's a little kid. She's a little kid. Yeah. Okay. That has a lot of potential to be one of the best tennis players in the world. You can correct me the best.

The best, I know. Okay, the best in the world. I love it. No. I love it. But she's a kid and the parents understand that. And that's why I love the parents because there's balance. Listen, she has to do homework.

She has to get A's. She has to get better in English. She has to be around other kids. She has to go to the water park. She has to be a little kid. Yeah. Listen, but we're on the court. We're all in and we're going for the jugular.

Go be a kid. Do your homework. But when you're on the court, get after it, right? Yeah. That's awesome. Well, so nice to meet. and I'm glad that you got to sit in a little bit. I'm glad I got to see you hit a little bit as well.

That's pretty awesome. And I'll see you tomorrow at five. All right, buddy. Nice to meet you. Go do your homework. That was awesome. You could just see the one of the things that, the main thing, what do you love about? The competition.

That is, that is so, listen, that is so different because most kids, that age, if you ask, what do you love about tennis? What do you love about soccer? I like to play. And I'm not saying those children don't grow up to be your professional athletes. But that's greatness. I love the competition. And that came from the heart.

And remember, that's exactly, listen, you can, you can, that's what this is all about. Yeah. And for any coach or parent listening to this, the best advice I can give anybody. Your job is not only to support, but to get your kids to be the most brutal competitor, you can. Okay, because when you're all about the competition, as I said, like the Williams says, you're not going to disappear as much. Rodic was like that. This guy was a ruthless mosquito. The guy kept bothering me all the time.

All he wanted to do is compete. It didn't matter. And when that is the wild card, and you just saw that came from the heart. Yeah. She loves to compete because when you cut out all the stuff, it's me and you showtime. Let's go. Let's get it on. It's about competing. It's not about, oh, I want to be a pro. I want to win trophies or money. It's a great life or I like this. Sure, you love to play. But you've got to be all about the competition. And that's what I try to instill to all the kids, anybody, anytime, anywhere. And if you do that, you'll handle pressure better. I think that any coach or parent always wants to see their kid just compete, right? It's like you can't roll over. You have to compete. You have to get after it.

Right. So it's funny because my six-year-old, she could be really good at gymnastics. And the coach goes, hey, she's a really sweet girl. We got to get her to be a little more onry on the mat. So we got to get her to compete a little bit more. But I don't want to take the sweetness. And I'm like, hold on, I got this. Because that's what you want to see.

you want to see a competitive spirit. Anybody who's great, I don't care what your profession is, you have to compete. You have to. No, absolutely. Listen, and that's why I said that's the number one thing that I look for. And when I talk to coaches or I do other podcasts or interview, that is the most important thing. It's not the forehand, not the backhand. It's not the serve.

It's not the genetics. All these things are important. but when you keep score, okay, and that's what you do in life, okay? It's all about how you're going to compete and are you going to stay in there for the entire fight? You're going to fail. The more you fail, the more you're going to succeed. The more you try, the more you're going to fail. Okay, you've got to try.

Trying is the best thing in life. You're going to lose. No one's going undefeated. I tell kids all the time, listen, I can get you never to miss a volley. Just stay home. You know, I can get you to never, just stay in bed and you won't get ahead. Don't get up. And this is the way, but kids don't look at like that.

And parents want to protect, especially parents nowadays. They're more helicopter. They're more on top of the thing. They want their kid to be rough and tough and be a great competitor. But, and they yell and scream at them and they lose. Then they go to them all and buy them a Gucci bag. I mean, what is that all about? You know, you got to understand what this is all about.

The parents, these parents already knew that. And I've had many others. And obviously, Richard Williams. And that was hardcore on everything, you know, because he's from the streets of Compton and from Louisiana. So this has a lot to do with it. But this family understands the whole picture. And that's what I love about the family. Because to make anybody great at anything, at the end of day, she has to deliver. But it's a team effort. Yeah. You know, there's. There's a lot of talk about it's you versus you. There's no competition. I think there's only part of the truth, right?

I really truly feel that no matter what you do, like even in my profession, I know who I'm after. I know who I'm going for, right? Now, every single day, I got to be better than I was the day before and every interview has got to get better. But at the same time, I'm coming after your ass. Like, I'm coming. Like, you can't shut that off in me. It's impossible to do that.

There's zero people on this plan. that can turn the competitive spirit off of me because I'm going to keep coming until I win. And then when I get and I'm winning, I'm going to go even harder so you can't catch up. And that's what the great. No, that's the mindset. And see you, you've established that mindset for a long period of time. And now that you got into that routine, you know, Sean has become a machine. You know what I mean?

And that's, that's what this is all about. It's just like when you ask me what time I get up and my routine and something like. Yeah, one o'clock. Yeah, no, it's like, I know. That's, that's insane. different animal. You are an animal. I feel great. But I'm in that routine. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so that's how you get the most out of yourself. That's how you feel better about yourself instead of being all over the map. Yeah. But I like what you said about I'm coming after you. You know what I mean? Because your biggest competition is the mirror, but you got to have an idea who's ahead of you.

More importantly, who's coming for behind. That's what I was saying about the little panther. Sure, you got Cocoa golf out there. You got other. people because they'll probably still be playing. Yeah. That's important. But I want to know the next little panther and the next little panther back there. And that's why we're going to be ahead and develop a very different game because this child deserves it.

Someone that was born with this discipline and this athleticism and quickness, I just feel compelled to make this beyond special. And maybe I'm saving my best for last. Oh, a little prophesizing there, the last, the last. Well, you know, I think that all those things you say are true. And you know, you mentioned, you know, it is, you know, you are your biggest competition. You look in the mirror, that's the guy, right? Or that's the girl.

I think from that standpoint, it's those maybe demons or limiting beliefs or negative thoughts that we fight every single day to get through, right? So we can chase where we're going, but also know what's behind. us like I just firmly believe that acknowledging all three of them is critical daily like you have to know who's behind you you have to know where you're at and you have to know who's in front of you and if you step on the gas and go hell bent away from the one behind you through the one in the mirror and towards the one you're chasing how are you going to lose no great point and you're right see it's it's so important every day that like everybody once motivated everybody he once nice things said to him. Say nice things to yourself. Motivate yourself. Talk to yourself. I mean, I don't know if I do that in public too much, but I do that all the time when I'm waiting in the parking lot doing a Zoom video with someone from Belarus at 3.30 in the morning, you know? It's like, I do this all the time. You got to tell yourself how good you are. You got to

inspire yourself. You got to talk like that to yourself. People, unfortunately, they let the situation and control them. They don't control the situation. Greatness controls the situation. I don't mean like a control freak, but they control friends, what they hear. Everybody's like a little aware

of what maybe they put in their mouth, but they're not aware what they put in their brain. They should be looking, listen to motivational speakers, YouTube, be around, but some people like the gossip. They like the train wreck. They like the negativity. And they're on that hamster wheel

and they can't get out of it, you know? And that's why when people come here, as I told you, I don't change strokes. I change lives, you know. And like you said, I can probably extract more out of the kid than their parent. It's a different voice. And obviously with the platform and pedigree that I've had over my career, if they're not going to listen to me, the parents can play the Rick card over and over and over again because I've been there, done that and put it together. So everybody should motivate themselves every day, but we let everything control us. And nothing controls me, nothing.

Okay, and I deal with, listen, we both deal with the same problems. Listen, I might have 100 problems a day, but nothing bothers me. That's how you deal with it. There might be a lot of garbage when I come into work. I pick it up because it's exercise. I don't look at like, why don't someone pick up the garbage? I flip it on my mind because that's what greatness does. They always take a negative.

They turn into a positive. Just like Michael Jordan, you want to boo 20,000 people at Madison Square Garden, boo me? Okay, he takes as a compliment and drop 64. Exactly. This is what Kobe and all these people do. And Djokovic does this. They flip it in their mind. Yep.

They flip it. As an opportunity. As an opportunity. As an opportunity, man. That's a great point. We've talked about, you know, Williams, sisters, the dad, and we haven't talked about the movie yet.

But so there was a, the movie, King Richard, and the actor nailed you, man. Like he had to lose, what, 30-something pounds, even talked like you. Walk us, walk the audience through the movie and kind of how you felt seeing your part played out. And it seemed pretty accurate from what I've seen,

what I've heard from you. But talk to us about that. First off, the movie was so spot on. The walk, the talk. the talk, the nuances, the subtleties. I told Will Smith at the after party, I said, you were better than Richard, you know, and he said that meant more to him than anything. Because I was in there. It was me. It was there. So it was crazy. The clothes, the bus you saw, the one-liners. Hey, Rick, we won't get you shot. Hey, we got Rick Macy and Compton. It was crazy because Isha,

the oldest sister, she was there every day. VW and Serena, they were 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. So they looked at it through teenage eyes where the older sister was there and she had a more accurate assessment of what's going on, the interaction between me and Richard, and just kind of how this all played out. But the movie, I don't know about everything before, you know, I came into the movie part. But when I came in, everything was 100% accurate. It freaked me out. And I never freaked out. The only difference was one thing. John Bernthal, he had this bushy mustache. It was like this bushy mustache.

I had this little piece of astroturf that took me like 30 years to grow. Other than the mustache, it was crazy. And I talked to John many times. He studied video. He read my book. He went into this with like over a thousand other people who he said tried out. And when he walked up, the producers said, what is this guy trying to do? He was like 200 pounds, and I'm like 170.

And he was played the Punisher. He was on Wolf of Wall Street. He played all these rough and tough guys. And he was on a mission because it was about fatherhood, love of family. When he got to know my character and did background, he said, Rick, I wasn't going to be denied. We talked on the phone a lot and bang. He nailed it. And I knew right away, once I saw the first screening, I said it loud and clear on every interview.

Will Smith will win an Oscar. No. No, you have no. Listen, he played Ali, men in black. And here I am. It was amazing. And but people don't realize they weren't there. They don't know really Richard during those years.

And I'm there. It freaked me out. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And Will told me it was during kind of the pandemic. They did some of the shooting. He would go home in costume with all the stuff on his face and stuff.

And he talked to his kids and still be practicing talking like Richard Williams. He got lost in it. No, no. This is, listen, people don't understand. When someone's playing someone's role, all they see is what they see on the big screen or on TV. People have no idea how deep they get into the character. And since we're talking about this, people have asked me about this.

Then when he won the Oscar, that whole fiasco when he got up, slapped Chris Rock, like, what the heck was that all about? I know exactly what happened. This guy when he heard that, Richard Williams was such a staunch defender of his family. And you saw it in one of the interviews that was in my office that Richard got up and said, you know, This is a 12-year-old little girl. She has a lot of confidence. Your ass is going to be in the ground. Mary, that was in the movie.

And Will, during that episode, I think he was Richard. When he just, like, he reacted. Who would do that on the biggest night of your career to do something like that? He's going to win an Oscar. He gets up and slaps the guy. He was not Will Smith. He was Richard. There's no other explanation.

He still had Richard. inside of him in that moment. I don't get lost for words because that's an explanation that I haven't heard. And I believe it. I believe it because... Remember Heath Ledger and the Joker? Come on. Stop taking words out of my mouth.

We're connecting here. We're reviving. We're vibing. So, like, that's the thing. Like, Heath Ledger couldn't get out of the Joker. And it killed him. There you go. And so that makes sense.

Like, wow, because, you know, as somebody watching it, that shit go down. I'm like, what, what did Will Smith? Like, did that really just happen? And I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the punchline. I'm waiting for the joke. And it didn't come.

And I'm like, something's going on with that, man. Something crazy. He's going through some type of episode. But he was caught. He was stuck in a character. No, this mental loop. I guarantee that's what happened. That's why.

When I said that to other people, just like you're responding, they could see how that makes sense. And I brought up, you know, the Heath Leather thing. So that's the only explanation because who would do that, no matter what anybody says on the biggest night of your career? People thought it was a fake. They thought it was like the whole thing was a setup.

Yeah. I mean, because if you watch it, I mean, again, you've seen it. Yeah. But like there's nobody in the world that has watchful Smith from the fresh prince of of Belair to where he is now in the success that he's had, would ever imagine that would happen. Yeah. And if it did happen.

Yeah. And if you watch that clip in the movie, I don't know if you remember, like they're interviewing Venus because she's going to play in that tournament. And it's the Saxia in my office. And the guy goes, uh, do you think you can win?

And Venus goes, I know I can win. And the guy goes, you say that with a lot of, confidence. Venus goes, I am confident. Then the guy goes, why are you so confident? And right then and there, Richard got up because he was in the background, blew a gasket, got in the guy's face, and it's on the movie. And the real clip is on YouTube. You can see it. I've seen the real clip. I remember. I remember it. And I just think, and Will has even talked about Richard being such a

staunch defender. You got to understand. He was a fierce. protector of his family. It was crazy. That's the only explanation that I can come up with, and I think that's the leader in a clubhouse. Wow, that's interesting, man. That's pretty, that's pretty crazy. Yeah, pretty deep. So you and, you and Richard were friends, right? You guys still, what now? You got you and Mr. William still friends. You guys, yeah. Look at that. That's at his house in West Palm Beach. You know, I went up to visit him. Me and my daughter, Ginger, we get out of the car, and I'm walking up. This guy had, you think I got one-liners.

I mean, this guy, get out of the car, I'm walking up. He goes, Rick, Rick, thank you so much for getting us out of the ghetto. This guy is so hilarious. The ghetto. Okay. I used to call Venus Cinderella Ghetto. And, but we just, this is our relationship, you know, fun loving, happy. But when the bell rung, we both were on a mission.

And we weren't going to be stopped. And we play basketball all the time. Like when they end up believing and he ended up coaching him, we didn't talk for a while. But when the movie, he's come here to the academy, he's talked to the kids. I've been up there to visit him many times. Just a great, great friend, but more importantly, the most unbelievable father. Wow. And listen, I've met more people than a lot of people I've ever met.

People don't, this should have been in a movie. Every day on the court, when the work was over with at 5.30, Venus and Shrina would always say, Rick, thank you very much and give me a hug. And Richard would give me a hug every night and say thank you. Now, he might have been jocke. He's a cagey guy. He might have been jockeying for a position. Hey, hey, new can of balls or something. I don't know, but no. And he made the girls bring their books to the court every day. And if it rained, I'll go up in Rick's office. See, that should have been in a movie. Yeah.

Education was so important. Because he knew they could be great in tennis, but he was all about these kids and the best dad, always making it fun, you know, move your feet. I'm going to come over there and tickle you, you know. He would do all this stuff. But he was serious. A man on a mission, hugging, kissing, just unbelievable. dad because he put a lot of helium in a balloon. He would blow a lot of smoke. They were almost legendary. Listen, they did over 200 media stuff before they even played tennis. I had NBC, ABC,

ESPN, people around the world doing stories on these two little girls from the giddow that Rick Macy saying they're going to be number one in the world and better than Jennifer Capriotti. Because I had the credibility. Sure. But then when they came and they saw, saw this, they said, oh, there's a lot of potential. Two little African-American girls going into a predominantly white sport, and they have all this ability. And this was before she even made that debut. But this guy was the master of balancing, you know, being a father and having his foot on the gas pedal, just like Vlad's parents. This is the art of the deal. If you're too hard one way, I've never seen it work. See, that's something that you're right.

it's left out of his story completely because there's a lot of conversation about him being the staunch, you know, protector, um, a very hands on and, and controlling and, controlling and in, and driving the work. But there's nothing out about that. So I'm glad you, I'm glad you mentioned that. I think it is too. Listen, the parents have to push. You got to give them the opportunity. You got to know when to push, but you've already heard me say he knew when to hug. Listen, I got Venus that wild card into the $500,000 tournament in Oakland to make her debut. I told Richard, here's the plan. Got to play a few more matches.

I got to ramp it up a little bit. So the next day of practice, he doesn't show up. I go, where are you at? He goes, well, I decided to go to Disney World for a week because he knew this was going to go bang, because now she's going to make a debut. But you got to understand, this guy was. He knew when? No, but he.

And so the kids would run through a wall for him. Just like Vlada, you just see, it's like, and, you know, they love to play. They love to compete, but they knew they were kids first and tennis players second. And Richard never wanted to rob these girls of their childhood and being with, being little girls. And, you know, they're out there hitting with people 400 in the world or they're boxing with a state champion. And then they're in the car playing with a dad. all. That's awesome. You know, and I respect the guy so much for that because I saw his interaction every day. People probably just thought he was a, he was push. Listen, you keep pushing and pushing and

pushing. If it doesn't come from within, they're going to get a boyfriend, driver's license, and you're left at the altar at 18 years old. I've seen that movie. Yeah. No. She said it best, Flotta. It's about the competition. Venus and Serena just love to knock. you out. That's the first thing. That's the first thing. Everything, once you have that and you're all about that, you handle pressure. Oh, too much pressure on them. All this media. Why are you saying that? Listen, you want a target on your back. You want a target on your back. You want people to, listen, me saying this little girl is going to be number one. That's the way I feel. Yeah. She can't the pressure, no problem. Life is bigger than tennis. Okay. She's going to be great no matter what

because of what her parents have put into her and the wiring she's got being around Rick Macy. Whatever. She's going to be great at whatever. But it's going to be tennis. But it's going to be tennis. Just so you guys know watching and listening, it's going to be tennis. Well, look, man, it was a pleasure chatting with you. And thank you for giving so much. insights of Lada and all the amazing athletes of the Williams sisters, Rada, Capriotti, all the great people that you've coached. But most importantly, what I really enjoyed about you was that you're changing lives and you understand coaching for more than the layperson. It's not about the athletic part. It's about what you can create in someone's life and how you can enrich

their experience. So I appreciate that about you, man. I really do. If I could just add one more thing. It's like through teaching, because you talked about coaching, I don't try to do that. That's just part of the smorgas board or that's what's on the menu with Rick Macy. It's not just, it's one-stop shopping. It's everything. Mental, technical, footwork. It's the whole thing because you're building a person. You know, when you get someone to really believe, because let's face it, confidence comes from winning and doing other things.

But I can get confidence in someone before they get confidence. So I'm looking at the bigger picture. But no, at the end of the day, that's the art of coaching. I love being with you and we'll definitely do it again. I would love that, man. Thank you so much. And for you guys watching and listening, please share this episode with someone you know, love and trust. And until next time, stay determined.

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