Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - What Real Fatherhood Looks Like

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

Nate Norman returns to The Determined Society for one of the most raw and transformative conversations on fatherhood, masculinity, and purpose. From recovering after back surgery to redefining what strength really means, Nate opens up about his identity shift, raising kids with intentionality, and the deep cost of emotional passivity. Every man needs to hear this. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com. I want the audience to understand, like, telling your kids is not right now. is not the thing. Like, you can tell them not right now. But when you're consistently telling them not right now while you're scrolling on your phone, you're sending them a message that you care more about that than them. A father ought to have a vision for the way that he conducts his family,

or the way that he interacts with his family. And if you come home and you get on the couch and you crack open to beer and you do them scroll for the rest of the night and you give your kids a tablet and you send them off, they're going to come home from school one day and you say, hey, how was school? And they're going to say, fine. If you want to be friends with them when they're teenagers, you've got to be friends with them when they're in diapers. Come on right?

not handing her a tablet saying, you just go over here so I can go over here. What are. Fringe, what up? Fire me. I put my all in everything I'm doing. Up until it's done, I meet for the entirety.

I'm putting an overtime. I'll be working. Just know I'm a goal for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time. I confirmed it. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Determined Society. I am your host, Sean French.

Before I introduce today's guest, yes, you understand what I'm about to do because you watch a show all the time, hit subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple and share this show with somebody you know, love and trust that needs to hear this message because I have a feeling lives are going to change today. The second, the other thing I want you to do is I want you to go follow at the Sean French on Instagram and at the Determined Society as well. So thank you for that. Today I have a great guest. A good personal friend of mine who I met at the way, way start of everything I was doing. he's written two books at this time and just an amazing human being.

And he's been on my show before. He's back. He's a repeat offender, guys. So that says a lot. He flew in this morning from South Carolina just to be here with us to share his mission and to share his book with you. It's brand new. It comes out very, very soon.

It's called A Bow of Bronze, the Arrows of Masculinity. And I cannot wait for you to hear the backstory of this book. But without further ado, My man, Nate Norman, welcome to the shell. Sean, thanks for having me, brother. You know, they didn't have a Starbucks weren't open this morning, so I had to come to Florida to get some coffee today. You did?

You didn't have coffee? Like, before 3 a.m., dude, I woke up. Hold on, dude. But so what? Like, when do people drink coffee? I mean, in my state, everything's early morning, but 3 a.m., nothing's rolling, dude, unless you want to hit that QT, right?

Is that like a gas station? Yeah. And it's like gasoline. I paid a light bills for QTs. Yeah, come on. I keep in business, bro. I just don't understand these. coffee shops, if you guys are listening, get your shit together.

It's simple to do. Like, be open at 4. Why not? Right? I mean, like, look, that's when the rollers are moving, right? That's when the moving stakeholders, they need their coffee, right? You go to the airport and you get a really beat up cup of coffee and it just never sits right. You know, you got that, that bubble in your stomach for the rest of the day and you get that heartburn. But, dude, I'm glad we're able to get you coffee in Florida, man. I'm here. I'm ready to roll, dude. I've got coffee in my system. I'm excited. I know, dude. I can never have enough coffee in my system, dude.

super happy to have you back on super happy to see you in person you know i feel like we've built this friendship you know from afar for so many years and just to have you here means a lot to me um for you to take time out of your day yeah to fly here and invest in me in order to talk about your story like dude i just i don't take it lightly man it means a lot i mean dude kind of like what we're saying earlier you know you never know who these people are in your life why they're in your life what are they doing here? And these key connections that just pop up. Dude, it's all, it's all orchestrated, man.

It's all part of the plan. Yeah. It's all part of the picture. Yeah, man. You know, and these people that you don't think are anything at the time or random happenstance meetings end up being something, right? And dude, meeting the people on the street. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text.

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In a way that you're going to impact their life on a normal basis. That's how we ought to live, right? You never know what they need. You never know what someone needs you to be for them. How did we meet, was it Gia? Was it Gia McCool? We were talking about that. Who actually introduced us to you?

I think I might have had 200. And I link up with Tyler Tot. Yeah. And then through him, Gia McCool, and then through her, you. Yeah. And dude, I was a nobody. These people don't have a reason to mess with a small account like me, but they all did. And they exemplify what it means to interact with a nobody.

And I'm so grateful. And I want to remember that, right? I want to remember that, dude, I was just so eager to get to know the people that were doing it. Get to know the people that were rolling. It's funny. Like, we'll start with this because I want the audience really clue it. just just key in on this main point,

like the word nobody, right? We're all somebody. But here's the thing. Like the truth is everybody was nobody until they were somebody, right? And you build your brand over time, through connections, through doing good work, through helping people out. And the one thing that I've always pride myself on

is if you approach me the right way, I'm going to do some stuff with you. Yeah. But if you jump into my DMs and talk about how great you are and how you can increase my listenership with, not even understanding what the show is actually doing. That's an insult. I don't really work with those people.

But like, dude, like, we all had to start somewhere. And for me, Gia was also that person. So if I remember it correctly, I watched one of her videos. It was called the Dark Side of Modeling. I saw that. And I really loved it because it showed a side of her that I thought was really, really cool

and speaking out about the bad things that go on people using your name, image, of likeness without the, you know, permission to do so, you know, artificially generating certain things. Dude, I really want to interview this woman because I feel like this is a great topic. And most people come at her because of the way she looks. And I didn't do that. I was like, I was like, I want to have a conversation with your mind.

Like this, this right here is great. And her team at the time, I actually advised her against it because I wasn't big enough. And now we have this great friendship. Like, we don't talk all the time anymore. But like, she needs me. there. Yeah. You know, if, if, if, if I need her, she's there. And she was that person for me, too, man. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a downside to the social media where there's now a value attached to the numbers on your account. And we don't mean to do it, but we attach a value. Oh, you've got X amount

of followers. You are somebody. Yeah. So naturally what we do is we feel like a nobody if our follower account is low. And I've said this before, man. I've met some of the realest, most authentic people who have no following. they're actually living a decent life. They just don't brag about it. They don't flex on it. And they're stallions, dude. They're studs.

These are men among men who I'm like, dude, I need to be around you. You just got 140 followers and the world thinks you're nobody. Then you meet somebody who has several hundred thousand followers. And you're like, dude, you're kind of a slumpkin. You're kind of a trash can. I don't think I can learn from me. And there's no disrespect to you. You're not my vibe.

Swam donkey, man. That's it, dude. Who cares if you got 140 followers, right? you're actually living a life worth following. Yeah. Without the following. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing.

Like, you will find more people doing real life shit. Like my buddy Brad Miller comes to mind. That was just, you know, we just dropped his show on Monday. He doesn't have a massive social media following, but he's more successful than anybody I've ever spoken to.

Live in life, dude. Come on, man. Live in life. Come on. It's wild to me. But, but dude, let's give the audience a peek behind this book, right?

comes out soon. We're going to have links for it. Don't worry. You guys can go check it out. I think especially men. And women, too, that want to take a peek behind

the curtain of a man's, you know, thought process, but walk everybody through the creation, the bow of bronze. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

John, you ever heard it where you say, I knew everything there was to know about parenting? And then I had kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It felt like I knew what there was to know about parenting. and then I had kids and I'm like, I'm just figuring it out. I'm like my dad was and my parents were, just figuring it out. And with this book, I felt like going into the onset of this book, the eight eras of masculinity, I knew or thought I knew what I needed to know about this book. And through life and happenstance and chance and things that took place in my life,

all of that knowledge that I felt like I had for this book was kind of just pulled away. And I was left with this raw presentation of what I, thought or believed a man should be at the end. And so it just changed. The dichotomy of this book just morphed over time. So I'm running a race, man. It's called Dam to Damn Relay. It's one of my favorite races in South Carolina. And it's from Lake Murray to Lake Greenwood. And it's a relay race. And I'm out there, dude, and my entire structure of my body changes while I'm running. I'm running head up and I'm affected in my legs, but I don't know what's going on, right? So I go out and I try to run again the next weekend. I'm in absolute pain in my legs. I start

stretching, dude, I'm getting on YouTube, figuring out how to fix, you know, athletes is what we do. We get on YouTube, we figure out how to fix an injury, right? Do I roll it? Do I, do I, you know, get one of those bands and roll my shoulder to fix? We've fixed all our injuries our entire life. We don't go to the doctor. It's what we do, right? Same thing.

A couple weeks, man, I'm still in pain. I start calling out of work. And now I'm like, dude, something's going on, right? I'm in pain. I'm missing work. Something's happening. Well, ends up being my back at a herniated disc. affecting my sciatic nerve. I go from epidural into surgery within a matter of weeks. And, dude,

I'm laid on the couch. I'm out of work. I'm not doing anything physical. I'm not running. That's big for you, dude. Man, dude, it was everything, right? And here I am on writing this book about what it means to be a man, right? Okay. Physical's gone. Right. Friendships, I felt like were gone, not because they weren't around. It's just, I couldn't go meet them. You could, yeah, you could, You don't want to show your face. I felt so hollow that I wasn't going out, right? I'm in there, man. I'm in pain.

I'm at the baseball game with my kids. I'm trying to be a coached. I'm sitting in a chair hunkered down. Oh, damn it. I can't move, dude. Damn it. Right. And it just broke me.

This was like April-ish, right? April of 2024. Okay. And I'm in the process of writing this book, been working on it. And I started going through some of these pages talking about a man ought to be physically strong. Well, now I can't be. Right.

You can't be. Yeah. And I felt like part of my identity was getting snatched out of me. And the truth of it is, Sean, that our identity is not wrapped up in what we do, right? Our identity is who we are. Yeah, right. I can still be a good husband. I can still be a good father.

I can still be a good friend. I can text people. I don't have to wait for my friend to come over and say, hey, Nate, how you doing? Why don't I pick up the phone? Yeah. Text them and say, bro, how are you doing? Yeah, man. And I'll tell it to you like this, man.

We should do, this is what I had to learn. I need to do for others what I want them to do for me. If I want text, I ought to text. Yeah, absolutely. I want somebody to invite me over for dinner, man, I should invite them. Yeah, me. Right, if I want greeting cards or gifts or text messages, phone calls, emails, supporting books, buying their shirts. If I want that for me, I should do that.

Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Mmm. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea. time you. Said you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rince. It's time to be great.

I do it for other people, man. You got to pay it forward. But it's hard, man. Especially when you get into where you were at because we had the off-air conversation where in the audience is probably tired of hearing me talk about it. You know, but for those that are listening to the show we're watching for the first time, like I got into a deeper, you know, depression because of, you know, I got really overweight and I didn't like the way anything looked on camera. I didn't like any, you know, I said like anything about it. And I struggled and I hid. You know, it was like, you know, the deal, man, if you ever have been fat for people like watching like, you know, one pair of jeans fit, you know, one shirt fits and you're constantly washing that one shirt or buying multiple of those

shirts, right? And so that was like kind of the prison I was in. And but through that, like, I feel like I came out the other side and, you know, I'm building now into a point where, you know, I look at things a lot differently, you know, but for you, like, that's the same thing. So you have,

your identity is completely ripped apart because you had your identity wrapped up and going to the gym, taking the selfies and the Jorts. I was really hoping you were going to work fucking Jords today, bro. I told my buddy, Pat, that's coming out of my present partner,

I said, hey, I bet you he's in Jorts. And you show up and you're not in Jorts. It's disappointing. Jords are the most versatile piece of equipment you could ever own. Let's just put that in writing. Put that down there.

The most versatile piece of clothing you can own. you can hunt in them you can go to church in them you can work out in them you can make babies in them whatever whatever just just out the zipper just out the zippers they do something they do something they do something to your swagger that's a clip jesus that's nice i don't want the b-roll on that one um but no dude so like that that moment though when you had to realize like to your point where where i cut you off was you you are talking about a man must be physically strong but at that point you could not be physically strong. And we had this conversation of like,

God has a funny way of putting you in situations for you to grow. And so to me, and I've mentioned this off air before, I'm going to mention it now. I've always believed in identity crisis. I don't believe it anymore. It's an identity shift. There you go.

Okay, so you were forced to go through identity shift. Walk the audience through that shift and how you allowed it and used it to maybe tap into a different empathetic part of your being to help people through things that you thought were easy before. That's good. I think when I went back and started reading this stuff as an injured man,

as a man who could not be physically strong and could not do what I'm actually writing about, I started seeing that I was pointing, you know, pointing a guilt arrow and saying, if you don't do this, you're not a man. Just shooting people right in the heart. Right. Yeah.

And I was coming from this haughty state of arrogance where I'm saying, a real man ought to be able to fill in the blame. Change the tire. changes oil, workout, run a 5K, lift his own body weight, push, pull, whatever the case may be, all of these stereotypes that we see from social media, I was writing about in a forceful way. And now I'm in this condition where I'm like, man, I'm hearing my own words and I'm feeling so condemned because I can't do them. I can't do it.

And so I think it was an Easter service, dude. My kids are at church, my wife's at church, and I'm watching the Easter service. And I'm like, dude, I just want to just get up and go. I just want to be with my family. I want to get up and do what I'm writing about. I can't write anymore. I cannot continue this same thread of thought. I've got to change, right?

And so I begin to write from my point of view. And it was just like, what can you do right now to be the man you're called to be? Okay. Okay, so I can't move this big stone, but I can move this little stone. I can love my wife. I can engage with my children. I could put the phone down and stop doom, scrolling and I can engage with my family. What can I can control? And this sentence begin to form

a thousand yeses in the same direction while, right, moves them out. A thousand yeses, a thousand small stones. Yes, I can do that today. Yes, I can do that today. And I begin to work towards moving these little stones, forming these disciplines, forming these habits that will eventually lead me to move this big mountain in my life. And man, the empathy that flowed for injured guys, the guys that have been hampered by life's situations, man. They lost a job. They lost their wife or they lost their income or they lost their health or they lost their fitness.

And now they're in the spot that I'm in. My message to them was, what can you do today? What can you do right now that's going to make your life a little bit better? Can you read the Bible? Can you say a prayer? Can you text a friend? Can you turn on the TV and encourage yourself through the myriad of motivational videos out there?

What can you do today? I love it. To not feel bad. about yourself. See, that's what I want people to listen to, right? Is that message. A lot of times where we hear people and like, you know, people that I have big platforms, it's always a pointed message, you know, and especially the fitness people in the industry, man. I don't want to say all of them, but a lot of them are like, you know, if you're not shredded, you have zero value and no one should listen to you because you don't know shit. John Maxwell is not shredded. Les Brown's not shredded.

Those are goats, too. Right? So like, just because they're not disciplined in that part of their life, you know, or they're not displaying the level of discipline that you think they should have. Does it make them unsuccessful? Does it make them less valuable? Does it make, does it make anything less than? No, it doesn't, right? But I think the interesting thing that you went through is seeing that from the other side now, right? Because, you know, you might have been able to come up to me at that point, like, hey, bro, you look like shit. And I've been like, okay. But somebody else might not have been able to do that, right? Like, it would have, it would have caused some issues. Like, I, I'd have been like, yeah, because I just can't control it right now.

Literally can't. And they look at me in the eye and say, you can control it. You just don't want to. I was like, no, that's not true. There's a bigger thing at play, right? Some people cannot control it. It's true. I could not control it.

I could not until I could. Until I finally flipped the switch, until I finally opened up to my friend Jeff Delaney. I said, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. help me. I can't do this anymore, right? And so, but, but, and then, and then you know what he did?

He hugged me. He's like, I got you. See you after Thanksgiving. Have fun until then. Right. But to your point, when you're writing this book, like you have the opportunity to, to like literally separate from that arrow in the heart, right?

Like that, that hook that influencers use, like, if you don't do this, you don't give a shit. You're able to peel back the onion. and say, hey, this is where I'm at now, and now I can help you. How did that change you as a person? And then follow up question, how did it change you as a father and husband? Oh, man. You know, the ever-evolving process of fatherhood and husbandry.

And we're not the same people, right? As when we got married as we are right now. And it's just been an evolving road. And throughout my life, there's been this man that I call the gray man who has alerted. Go, because I love when you talk about this. We talk about this a little bit on the other show. But, you know, like, recap, please. So the gray man is the part of me that has lost its focus,

his color, his passion, he's adrift. He's purposeless. He's missionless. He's into the void. He's clicking through life, right? He's waiting for something good to happen, which rarely ever does because other people are responsible and he's not taking action.

And he's just in life, but not engaged in it. He's alive but not doing anything. Come on. And I've heard it said, too, It's basically a rut with you're in the grave. The ends are kicked out, though, and you're almost there. All we need is the ends if you put on. You're alive, dude.

You're breathing, but you're not doing anything. And through the back injury, I could feel the gray man lurking. I can feel him. It's almost like, you know he's dead. You killed him. You started working this angle in your life and becoming a better man. But the gray man lurks right at the edge of our surface. It's almost like one bad week away from jumping back into your life.

And the gray man doesn't give a rip about marriage. he doesn't care about whether his kids are doing well or not. The gray man only cares for self-preservation, existence, right? And coddling himself through comfort, avoiding any form of confrontation and bringing comfort in to get the pain out. So throughout that process, I had to fight to keep the gray man at bay, right? And when he comes, it's just a slow fade, too, right? Oh, dude, yeah.

It's that lurking element of comfort that eases its way back into our life. And next thing you know, we're fighting. our marriage next year. I'm telling the kids not right now or maybe later. And I do, I said this to myself recently is there will only be a certain amount of maybe laters they'll take before they get the message. Right. When they come up to us, we're on our phone. We're working, right? I'm doing something important. Yeah. And they're like, hey, dad, can you throw the football? Hey, dad, can you jump on the trampoline? Hey, dad, can we go for a bike ride? Hey, can we do this right now? And I say maybe later. They're only going to take so many maybe later. They're only going to take so many

maybe later's until they're like, I get the message. This, hold on. This one's hard, especially for us because I don't mean to cut you off because like I can tie this to last night. My youngest was saying, Daddy, can we play? I go, not right now. We're about to go to dinner. Not right now.

And you're like, I don't want to be emotional. I don't want to be emotionally. You're like, don't make me cry. Because like the worst thing is like I never want my children to feel like they're not worthy of my time but how many times in building things do do we let that take precedence over the children right then because we're trying to build something for them but like by the time it's built they might not give a fuck that thank you for that dude because it just we always need certain checkpoints right sure and like for me like I don't do it a whole lot man

but when I do I do I'm like dude not right now right um and sometimes like saying a not right now and I want the audience understand like telling your kids not right now is not the thing like you can tell them not right now but when you're consistently telling them not right now while you're scrolling on your phone you're sending them a message that you care more about that than them that's right and there there's obviously times in your life where you've got to just say hey now it's not a good time 15 minutes right yeah and if you have a hundred thousand times in your life to say not right now how many have you used and how many do you have left and how many can you redeem and uh that's part of the gray man that's part of fighting the gray man is it's a

intentionality and fatherhood, right? A father ought to have a vision for the way that he conducts his family, for the way that he interacts with this family. And if you come home and you get on the couch and you crack open the beer and you doom scroll for the rest of the night and you give your kids a tablet and you send them off, how many of those days do you have left with your kid before you're going to, they're going to come home from school one day and you say, hey, how was school? And they're going to say, fine. And you say, was that all? And they're going to say, yeah, anything good happen? No. And the years that you spent handing them a tablet will now come into full focus. And you're not going to have that time back. If you want to be friends with them when they're

teenagers, you've got to be friends with them when they're in diapers. Come on. Right. You've got to invest in that child. That's a vision for your family. Right? I want my, my daughter to love me when she's 18, when she's 13, right? Yeah. Starts when she's five. Yeah. Come on. Not handing her a tablet and saying, you just go over here so I can go over here. This is so funny. You know, I had this conversation. in the truck on the way down about how your daughter is going through certain shit now and not being accepted by her friends. She doesn't fit in. She's homeschooled. Let's be honest.

Home school kids don't always fit in. But the fact of the matter is she doesn't have a phone and all her friends do. And she may hate you now, but you're creating so much better, something better for her later. Watching the rejection in a lifetime is terrible. You're seeing the kids that you don't necessarily want her to be accepted by reject her. and it's hard for her, and I'm on the outside looking in, saying, I know that you're going to respect this decision in five years or in 10 years. But right now I'm watching you not have friends because of this.

But I choose to stand on these morals. I choose to raise you in such a way that that conversation with another adult with eye contact is more important than looking at your advice. I choose to raise you in such a way that you're going to believe certain things about the world and our construct and human interaction and social media and the internet that might make you a little bit of an outlier. but everybody that I respect is an outlier. Everybody that I receive.

No, dude, I don't respect anybody that is a common go with the flow, dude. Come on, dude. You've got nothing to offer me. You're just, you're bubble gum, dude. You're the same. Yeah. You're the same as every other person, man.

And it's those people that think different. It's those people that have held their ground that have stabbed their flag in the ground and say, dude, I'll die for this. Yep. I believe this and I live this. This isn't a social media thing. This is who I am.

Yeah, 1,000%. I think that's, I think that's, a parent, right? It's obvious to see that. And it's like, I told you, my wife and I signed a pledge, you know, at the prep school that the kids go to is wait until late. And even then it's a flip phone. Yeah. I'm not open up that world for you. Yeah. Hey, dude, everyone's parents like, well, what if you need to go to hold of them? Like, hold on a second. Like, I didn't have a cell phone until I went to Louisiana State University. I was 21 years old before I actually had a cell phone that I could use. And my parents were always

able to get a hold of me. You know why? Because they taught me how to be a good kid. There you go, dude. Is it that our world change? It's fucking weird. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed, dude. Like, you can't say like, well, I need my kid to be able to get hold of me. Then make yourself accessible to when you're, when you're around them, they will always tell you where they're at. Yeah. They will always be there. In the world, yes, the world has changed. I will, before we get roasted, like, yes, technology's changed, but also you've given in. you've given in like I'm not giving in one dude we got to we got to give a nod here to the 90s kids who rode their bike bro seven miles to the local gas station we were so dope right no yes no phone no

nothing nothing I didn't even have a way to get in contact with the people if something were to the bad right I'm just out there on my huffy or my BMX with a card in the spoke right yeah I'm rolling running from gang members no that's what I might tell it was like and now you know Would I send my son without a phone seven miles to the gas station? No. That's the question, right? Would you? Are we more aware of the danger?

Are we more aware of what's in the world through media and news? Are we just seeing more of the evil? Or is it that like the world was always just this evil? We just weren't in tune to it 24-7. Like, oh, watch out. Did you hear about the person that got kidnapped in Uganda? And now I have absorbed. I'm like, oh, junk.

Maybe I shouldn't let my kid ride to circle. How about I give you a ride? You know, let me give you a ride. Yeah, I'll take you, you know. Yeah, exactly. And there is evil. I'm not saying be ignorant of evil. But dude, what a life, right?

Yeah. And we learned how to have conversations. We learned how to make force. We learned how to do things with our brains. Yep. Instead of being raised by a device. Well, that's the thing, dude. And I think that's also back to the what a man needs to be or the pillars of masculinity,

which I think that, you know, has been, I know that it's been tempered in society, especially the last five years. There's a, there's a major push. to gaslight men into thinking that their masculinity is aggression and it is not. Sure. It is not. But let's talk about that, right? So we've given the audience a background of where the book came from. Start talking about some pillars that are within the book. Don't give them too much because I want them to buy this day. Yeah, I got you. Yeah. So Sean, when you meet a man and you say, dude, that dude, that dude is killing life, right? That dude is, he's living, right? Whether it be his

business or his marriage or his faith. There's something in this man that stands out, right? He's living a certain way. He's walking. It's a bearing, right? It's a confidence. It's an aura that this man possess. It's an energy. An energy. What are the things that that man does that gives him this energy? Is he born with it? Right? Does he get it from other men? Does he glean from the world? Where does this man get these things? And so throughout the process of my life, I would just realize when I lived good, I felt good, right? When I prayed or read my Bible, I just felt better going into the next thing. When I lifted weights or ran, I felt good going into my workday. And I began to realize that as I begin to make these habits and make these changes, that I was

feeling good. And I'm walking taller. I'm loving my wife better. I'm ministering to my kids better. I'm hanging out with friends better. I'm not being the slump dunkin or the gray man. I'm living intentionally. I love it. And so I would just notch these little things down. Eight disciplines or nine disciplines or 12 disciplines or 12 things I did today made me feel like a million bucks. Drink a bunch of water. Got in some cold water. Worked out. Read my Bible. Texted a friend. Encouraged a friend. Laugh. Who knows? Whatever these things are that made me feel great. I wrote them down. And out of this begin to form these intrinsic qualities that a man ought to possess. Number one, I felt like spirituality. Every man that I've ever respected had a bearing. Somewhere they were going.

an inner anchor, something that grounded them. They weren't just out there guessing at what it was to exist, right? They weren't out there just trying to figure out why they were here on their earth. They knew, dog. They knew. And there was a confidence that came with them knowing. Not only did they know where they were going and have an active faith, but they were encouraging others to do the same.

Love it. Right? They weren't just saying, I have an answer to my life and I'm hoarding this and keep it. They're shining a light for others. I'm like, there's something attractive. in a man that makes him a beacon of hope for others, right? A lighthouse shining a lamp from the shore to bring other journey. Come on, dude.

You're not just saying, I figure something out and keep it. Dude, look, look. Give it your world, man. This works, right? Praying works or reading your Bible works or loving your wife works or not sleeping around or not getting drunk everybody. It works. And you're lassoing the lost.

Yeah. And I love that element. So a man, for me, ought to be a spiritual person. You ought to have a bearing of faith. That's tenet number one. That's arrow number one. And I'm a bow hunter. Okay.

So I love the idea. No, I love how you name the book based on that. It's pretty cool. The arrows, right? And so there's a story in the Bible. And David is this savage, right? You know, I don't want to get graphic on your show, but, you know, King Saul's They're used to me.

You can't have my daughter. I don't know. You go kill a thousand Philistines. You can have her. So David's like, all right, bet. David goes out there with a crown royal bag and fills up the thing with the thousand four skins of the Philistines and brings it back. him at the king's feet, like, give me the girl, right?

What's that's savage? Savage, dude, right? There's another time where he's trying to get some food from this shepherd. Shepherd tells him, no, he tells all this boy strap up. We're going in, right? We're going to kill this, dude. This is the type of dude. And ends up becoming this king, writes the book of Psalms,

and has this poet side to him, this warrior poet, you know, dichotomy within him. And he says this line, he says, by my God, I can run upon a troop. By my God, I can leap over a wall. By my God, I can bend a bow of bronze. I'm like, there's this concept here where David said, I have all of these qualities. But by my God, I'm able to do this as a man. And it resonated with me, man.

Wow. I can bend a bow of bronze if God is with me. I can love my wife. I can start this business. I could be that friend. I can be the man. I'm called to be if you lead me. I love it.

And that's where this whole premise of the bow of bronze came from. Come on, man. And these tenants, I feel like, lead me to be the type of man. that God can use to bend the bow of bronze. How has writing this book and those tenets, those principles, changed your life? Well, you know, if I don't do them now,

I feel awful. It's almost created the negative impact. You know, it used to be I could skip the gym and not feel a thing. Yeah, I hear that. I could skip a discipline and I felt fine. Yeah. And now I go a few days on vacation,

like, dude, something's off. Yeah, something's not good. I got to get back to a root. team. You've created such a necessity in your life for these things that it almost drives you to a state of normality with the 12 disciplines. But dude, what I feel like it's taught me throughout this process is that there are things that a man ought to do every single day. There's something that you need to put your hands on every single day. If you don't live your life on mission, you'll live a drift. If you wait for something good to happen, you're just going to be waiting

a long time. If you wait for the right time to start the business or if you wait for the right time to have kids, you're just waiting. Get out there and move a stone. I love it, dude. It's so funny because we're talking about these pillars, these arrows, principles of what a man ought to be. I want everybody to really think of that one thing that they're trying to accomplish in their life, whether you're male or female, and tell me that there aren't pillars that you should be following every day.

And if you follow those pillars every single day, what shows up at the end of the week? Maybe nothing. Be honest, nothing. And then two weeks and then three weeks. you're feeling better. You're happy. You're walking around. You're moving a little different, right?

You could be in better shape. And then all of a sudden, maybe work gets a little bit better. Maybe your conversations at home with your kids or your wife or your spouse gets better. Maybe just maybe your brand or whatever you're working on starts to blow the F up. And then you look back at it and you're like, what just happened? Well, the reality is you stayed within your process. You created something to stay true to what you believe in that's going to get you to the next level. and when you don't sacrifice on those disciplines, you walk a little taller every day.

It doesn't matter. When you don't skip and you do the next right thing, you can create anything in this world that you want. And people probably listen to like, that's bullshit. What is it? Because I'm telling you, if you're saying it's bullshit, then you're not looking at everything you said you were going to do and doing it. And not just doing it to check it off.

Yeah, I know. I said I would read 10 pages, but I read five. Let me check that off. No, it's a fail. It's a past fail business, dude. You're either doing the disciplines or you're not. And when I look at everything, you know, throughout my day now, you know, wake up at 4 a.m. is a discipline.

It may not be that forever. But right now, that is a principle. That is what I ought to do in my process to be the best me and build the best show that I can is wake up at 4 a.m. be in the gym by 4.30. So those are two things right there. But in the middle of that, am I hydrating? and my protein shake. Did I do all those things?

Like even down to the thing, like, am I taking my vitamins? That is a discipline. And if you don't do it one day, you are literally telling yourself it's okay to shortcut. Yeah. And I'll say something like that on social media. I'll say, a man ought to rise early. Right?

That's something I just believe. A man ought to be up before his family, sharpening his body, mind, and spirit. Dude, if I'm asleep, if my kids beat me awake, I'm pissed. Yeah, dude, I, growing up, I never saw my dad in bed unless he was sick and even then it was for a short amount of time. But I'll say something like that on social media. A man ought to rise early, sharpen his body, mind, and spirit. And here come the people, right?

Oh, dude, well, I work the third shift and I do this at nighttime. Fantastic. You still ought to be doing something prior to your family waking up or your family being a way that you're sharpening your body, mind, and spirit. So you're the best version of yourself. 1,000%. Right. And, dude, it's never the people that are driven. that come at me for this stuff.

No, no, no. Like, it's not the people that are waking up early and know the benefit of the 4 a.m. Club or know the benefit of rising early that come at me. It's the people that aren't doing. Right? They're like, everybody's different. Absolutely everybody's different. But even you as a different man ought to do something daily that makes you a better man.

Don't even have to get up and work out. Get up and read. Do anything. Make your kids lunches. Do something, right? Make their breakfast. There it is. That's it, man.

Read the book with your kindergartner. I don't know, but hey, good morning. anything is better than nothing. Anything, man. Don't just do something. Stand there. Don't just wake up at six because you know you got to be somewhere at seven. Like that,

you're still in a beta. Like from the time I wake up at 4 a.m., I get in the truck probably around 4.18. I'm not even awake, dude. I'm not even awake, dude, like that's, that's the daily discipline. That's the habit. And I know, like, okay, I don't like how I feel. right now. But as soon as I get to the gym parking lot, I'm going to do my normal daily blood type

determined thing. And then that's my, that's my, that's my trigger. That's my switch. Okay, I got these feelings out. And now I'm going to go in and I'm just going to walk to the door. And now I'm going to buzz myself in. I'm going to hang my keys up. I'm going to go upstairs. I'm going to hop on the treadmill. I take it one second, one move at a time. And before you know it, I'm locked in. Isn't it funny how the idea of doing those things becomes daunting? Not actually the doing of them becomes hard, but like the idea of waking up early,

the idea of going to the gym. The idea is the difficult thing, but when you're actually doing, it's not difficult. It's easy. Then the adorphin start flowing, the blood start flowing. You're feeling jacky, you're feeling excited, right? The idea was actually stopping the action. Yeah.

And so many men are existing. They're women to, right? No. Just the idea of launching, the idea of moving forward. It's the magnanimous pile of rocks, right? How do I move this entire structure in my life? Well, you don't move it all at one time.

Yeah, you can't. Peace by piece by piece. Again, a thousand yes is in the same direction. Dude. With consistency, with preservation, right? Not looking at it like you have to move the mountain by tomorrow. When I'm 60, I still want to be doing disciplines because I feel I'm the optimal self when I do so.

I feel like I'm the best man that I can be from my wife, from my family, from my children, for God, so that I can be. into bronze bro when I'm 60, right? Yeah, dude, like, there's a certain power in what you said, right? I want to be in these disciplines until I'm 60. Most people, when they look at something and they look at that mountain, they go, geez, how the hell am I going to, there's no way.

Like, how do I go from here to there? But what they're focused on is the gravity of the shift of like, what does this look like compared to what does this look like? Where does my business look now compared to what I want to look like? okay, we're doing X, but we want to do 100K a month doing this or whatever it is. And they look at that number, they're like, oh my God, instead of

the small rocks every single day. If you move the small rocks, and I call it moving the proverbial football down the field, just yard by yard, man. It doesn't matter. You don't have to move a mountain every day. You don't even have to be at your optimum self every day.

But can you move forward a little bit? Do something. To your point, can you do something today? what can you do? So there's days and these people like really, this is where I think people let off the gas. Like, what was it? Yesterday, I was extremely underfed.

I woke up, I went to the gym, and it was a hit day. You know, I was busting myself, I'm like, dude, I just don't, I'm not feeling good right now. I'm like, what happened? Why is my body so tired? I'm like, oh, you're extremely busy. Your last actual meal was at 1.30 p.m. And your last shake was at 4.30 p.m.

And now, it's 5 a.m. You're underfed. Okay. So, but now I know, did I walk out? No, I said, okay, my 100% is at a different level right now. My 100% today is probably my normal 70%. But as long as I give 100% of that, then can I be happy about it? It's good. Most people aren't. They judge where they're at based on where they were yesterday or what they think they need to be doing. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just give everything you got at that moment. Yeah. Or if you're anything like me, you allow that problem to become so pervasive that it takes up all your peripherals. Come on, man.

Right? Now of a sudden you can't eat, right? You can't sleep. You're frustrated. You're anger. You're pensive. You're aggressive. You're ready to punch through bricks because you can't find the remote control, right?

And it's because that problem is right here. It's in my face. It's what I'm thinking about. It's what I'm talking about. It's just right here. And I can't see solutions because it's consumed my vision. Dude, that's when that zoom out, right? Dude.

Just backing up. And then addressing one small discipline. And dude, there was times during the back surgery where all I could do was get that phone out and text a brother and say, thinking about you today. I love you. I'm praying for you. Fight the good fight. You know, it's so crazy because I'm thinking about your journey now. You know, I was like April. I'm thinking about what was I doing in April? Right? And where was I at? And where was I at the end of the year. And I said, and I caught myself when you were telling me all this. I'm like, I didn't know this. Why didn't reach out? I didn't reach out to you and tell you where I was at. So, man, can we do better with this? It's good. To me, it's like we get wrapped up in our daily lives and we are in a certain energy. And we expect everybody else to be in the same energy and to operate exactly how we're operating. But how many times have I been at a very high energy and maybe there's somebody in my life that, you know, is a part of my everyday.

But they're not at that energy. And I'm operating here and they're operating there. And I don't say, hey, are you good? Yeah. Reach out, dude. You want text. Give text. Yes. You want it. Give it.

I mean, and expect it if you're not offering it yourself. And, dude, I feel like I do a pretty good job, right? But I'm not perfect. Yeah. I get wrapped up in my own shit, dude. Come on, man. It supplies mores though, too, right? Yes.

You want your wife to text you a spicy text? Mm-hmm. How are you initiating any form of contact? Yeah. Right? You want your wife to reciprocate at dinner time or at the house? How are you initiating? Same with their kids.

You want your kids to have conversations? How's your conversation with them? Yeah. How are you talking to them? How's your eye contact? Are you saying not right now? Same with friendships, man. And one of the disciplines I encourage men to do when we do these 12 disciplines is encourage one person a day.

Oh, dude, that's minimum. One person to make one person to day. That's it. Just shoot a text off. First thing in the morning you wake up, fired off. Right? It could be the same person. It could be your mom.

I don't care. Right. One person, one time a day, send the text out. And dude, it's so funny because it doesn't need to move mountains. No. It could be someone that reaches out to you on social media. I just like thanking them. Like, hey.

Have a great day, dude. Have a great day. you're awesome, oh my God, you take the time to send me a voice note. Makes people's day, man. And people want connection. For sure. And what I know about that is I need it. I need that encouraged the text, right?

Yeah. And I was too ashamed to reach out for it. But I didn't know that before. Yeah. Now I know. I felt so weak reaching out to a man saying, dude, pray for me, I'm hurting. I'm struggling, right?

Pray for me. I'm going through the depths of despair right now. That's crazy. I felt so ashamed to do so. And I've got a few friends that I have a close enough relationship where I can do that. But the vast majority, can't do that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so at random, that's why I said, I just need to send this.

Who knows what people are going through? And you know what, Sean, nine times out of 10, they text back and say, dude, I need you do that today. Hey, I lost my job. Oh yeah. Hey, I'm going through it my marriage. Hey, this is happening in life. And you're just, you're just being this oracle, this vehicle. You're firing arrows into the world of purpose, a lighthouse shining a lamp from the shore to bring others journey home. There's just lighthouses aren't there just to go check out, you know, when your family's at the beach. They serve a purpose. I think purpose is the big thing, Like if a human being is off purpose and just existing, gray woman, gray man, whatever it is, there's no purpose, they don't have purpose. And I think it's important, and I know it's important to truly dive into your purpose, but also understand why you're doing it.

Sure. It's like for me, say, what's your purpose? Well, to have the show. Like, this was my purpose, my whole life. I didn't know. I didn't know that. But also, what's my purpose doing it? Is it to make impact or is it to make money?

it's to impact. Will money come? Yeah, money comes. It has. It will. It'll continue. You know, will being known come?

Yeah, it'll come. It has. It will continue to come. It'll get a larger scale. But for me, what it's about is getting the messages. I'm a friend while I'm sitting at gymnastics. Hey, my book's coming out in the beginning of February.

Do you know any shows? I'm like, yeah, mine. Can you travel? But you see what I'm saying? Like, that's what I live for. Like I live for getting the text messages. is like this episode help me in this way in my life. Thank you so much.

Good. Like, dude, that's impact. Yeah. It's purpose. You have to have it. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information.

That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at good to know facts. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit good to know facts.org. Is it possible that there's things that you had to go through in your life for those messages to come out? We talked about that. Yeah. You know, like you had to go through the valley of the shadow of death for you to be able to appreciate the light. Yeah. And then when you realize one day that you actually went through crap so you can appreciate the good you have,

or even further still that you went through crap so that you could show somebody else how to cut a road through it. Right? Like you actually had to walk through a mess in order to make a map for someone else. That's crazy. Dude, I can sit there and tell you from 2021

until very, very recently, there's been a lot of moments where I would sit in the office in my house and just be in tears. Why am I going through this? Why is this so hard? Why can't I figure this out? why, why, why, why, why.

And then I started doing the principles that I knew that would just make me feel better. And then all of a sudden, holy shit, it opens up. Right. And now I'm like, turn the faucet off. Not really, please, God, don't turn the faucet off. But it's just like, okay, now I need like three more people to field all this stuff because, like, I can't do it all.

Right. And it comes when you become in true alignment with who that, that real dude is at the deep core. It opens up. And then you start to realize, oh, because now people are calling. Hey, I'm thinking about, and I'm talking about close friends, dude.

I had one of my closest friends in my whole life. I've noticed since I was 11 years old. We met on a baseball field. He's a left hand. His name is Justin Higgins is playing second base as a left hander, which was bullshit because you don't do that. He threw a baseball and hit me in the neck when I was running down the line.

We've been best friends ever since. But like, I've gone through the mess. And he calls me yesterday. He's like, hey, I really want to start a podcast. but I want it to be in like the the wellness you know I want wellness stocks to come on I want to do XYZ can you let me some advice I'm like a ton and I'm glad I'm glad to do it but I but I told them all the roadblocks don't go there go here we'll hop on a zoom call I'll come up to Orlando I'll help you do this you can be you can come on my network let's do this thing the right way because I've been

through the shit yeah I don't want any of my people to go through it yeah you have to walk down some of the roads to know there's dead ends. Dude. You got to walk down some of those. I hit a few. In order to mark a dead in on a map. You got to walk down that road. You reach back behind you and say, dude, I can tell you it's bottomless pit

at drunkenness, right? It's an empty road in pornography. Yep. Empty pit in adultery or whatever the case may be, right? And you find out that there's emptiness there and you reach back behind you, right? And you say, I've walked through this woods, I've cleared a path

for you so that my son can walk unencumbered. I took the scrapes on my arm, swinging a machete through the woods, and cleared that path so that you can walk on a clear path. Illuminated, clear, unencumbered path. I'm willing to be the tip of the spear, as a man ought to be, to walk through the darkness, to deal with my bag of shadows

so you don't have to walk into that darkness. I love it. Right? I want to walk through that crap. I want to go through my junk. I want to go through my bag of shadows. I want to clear that path. And so that when you are come of age, you're not dealing with a dad who's depressed

or anxious or frustrated, right? I'm diving in my junk so you don't have to. Yeah, man. I'm clear in that path. I think it's important, man. And it's so funny, you said, you want to be that spear that goes through first. You want to cut the path.

This is, there's a line from a movie called Moneyball. You ever watch Moneyball? No, sir. Okay, it's about Billy Bean when, you know, like the whole analytics and the statistical thing of it's called, yeah, you called it Moneyball, right? And he did things, like, so contrary into what everybody thought.

Everybody thought you had to have the big names in the lineup, right? No, you get rid of that big name, and then you bring in a bunch of other people that can make up for the statistical value and then some so you can win baseball games based on percentages. And everybody thought he was crazy. And no, he didn't win a World Series,

which I'm pissed about because I'm an A's fan. Don't even get me started. Like, I should not have brought. that up because A's have just destroyed that organization. But there's a line in the movie says, the first one through the wall always gets bloody. Let me be that guy. That's what comes down to. And so when I say a man ought to be the first one, and here comes the internet saying,

a man ought not to be. You ought to be. Somebody has to be. And here's the reality of adults and fathers and parents and men alike, right? If you're not willing to be the first one through the wall, somebody else will. And if you're not willing to do what? what must be done for the sake of your family, your progeny, your future, your career, your ministry, your faith,

whatever the case may be, if you're not willing to, somebody else will. Yeah, are you willing to put your hands, put your kids in somebody else's hands? Send me. Come on, man. Right, I don't want somebody else raising my kids. Yeah.

I don't want them learning how to change their gender at recess, right? I want to be in control of what my kids are seeing, right? I fucking love you for that. It's a whole other topic, but it's true. Like, I don't want to. learn how to change your. Yes, thank you. Dude, that, we can go a thousand different ways from here, dude. I just want to have a hand in how they're raised. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to indoctrinate my kids and say, you're going to be forced fed to believe the way I believe, but I want to present the facts in

such a way that they have a cognitive way to rationalize what they're going to see in this world and how they're going to process the information from a worldview that is what I believe to be true, right, biblically based. I love it, dude. I love it. And I cannot wait for everybody to read your damn book. I can't wait to finish it. You brought me a copy today. Thank you. I'm honored.

Let everybody know as we land the plane here where they can find you, how they can potentially buy the book when it comes out. Because, guys, look, I only have real people on the show, right? This guy's not pushing anything. He's clearly an intellectual and he's got a lot of value to give men and how they ought to be and, you know, serving through his own failures and his own obstacles. but giving back to men so they can be there for their wife and their children. Yeah.

So NateNorman.com is where you can find. It comes out February 9th. I'm excited. It's on pre-sale right now, and so you can get you a copy. And I'm excited about what it'll do to see somebody walk through my journey or allow somebody to walk through my journey. And hopefully what it does is allow them to put their hands on something as well. You could be incapacitated like I was and still put your hands on something.

Right. You do not have to drift purposelessly through this life. And we know that mediocrity is a siren. song that that lures us to passivity. And if we as men can combat passivity by avoiding that siren song of comfort and put her hand on one single thing, we'll make the world a better place. I love it. There's a man right now listening that wants to move because you've inspired them or just because they know that they need to move. But they're so paralyzed.

What is the one piece of advice, tactical advice, you could give them right now to start breaking that inertia? motion is always attached to figuring things out for me. Throughout my life, I would disappear. I'm going to go to the woods. I'm going to walk. I'm going to go on a run. I'm going to go into the ocean. There was this action attached to my brain clicking in gear.

And it's almost like I needed the endorphin and blood flow to get my brain around the idea of what I needed to do or how I needed to move forward. And I know this might be difficult for some, especially if you're injured like I was because motion was gone. So everything that I had attached to my cognitive function, I could not do. So how did I get the juices from? The brain waves moving. And I just began to write.

I just begin to process. I begin to dump. And for a lot of men, the bag of shadows contains the depths of your being. It contains the junk, the dirt, the grime, the fill. The stuff you never post on social media. That's what's in the bag of shadows. And when you begin to process, through your junk and just get it out.

This is why therapy works. This is why taking your armor off with another brother works where you're cracking open your chest and saying, look at my heart. Yeah, that's it. When you deal with some of this junk and the way I dealt with it was through writing, so if you can't get active and you can't move your body and walk and get into the woods or get into the water and begin to let the cognitive function flow, then dump it out on paper. And if you don't want anybody to read it, that's fine.

Go have a funeral for it later. Take it to a gravestone, burn it up. Tie it to a balloon and send it off into the atmosphere. Who cares? Yeah. Get it out. I love it. Go through the bag.

Do what you can and you'll be able to move forward. And I say it like this, Sean, this is something I live by. Do what you know and you'll know what to do. Ooh. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. Do what you know. Do what you know.

Yeah. And you'll know what to do. Come on. Guys, listen, I hope you enjoyed this conversation today. Don't forget, Nate Norman.com. Go check out his book. It's on pre-sale. We'll drop the links everywhere.

by the time the show comes out, it'll probably be out anyway. So go get yours now. If you need to reach out to him, he's also on Instagram. What's your handle? At underscore Nate Norman. At underscore Nate Norman. Go check him out. Have a relationship with him and learn everything you can from the guy because, again, he's amazing.

And thank you guys once again for listening. And Nate, thank you, dude. This has been an amazing treat to have you fly in and have you on the show. I'm proud of you. And I'm all for you, man. Like, straight up, dude. Thank you for freaking Jack to have you sit. Appreciate you, man.

So guys, please, once again, share the show with somebody you know, love and trust, someone who needs to hear this message, someone male or female that is stuck because they're going through an injury or sickness or depression, just help them move that one pebble at a time. And until next time, stay determined. Shout French, what else.

Everything I'm doing up until it's done, I mean for the entirety. I'm putting an over time. I'll be working. Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time. I confirmed it. A whole society determined.

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