Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - White Sands: Addiction Recovery Redefined

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

Addiction, recovery, and wellness aren’t just abstract topics—they’re real battles being fought every single day. In this episode of The Determined Society, Shawn French sits down with Stephen Sundquist of White Sands Treatment Centers, our Presenting Sponsor, to talk about what true healing looks like. Steve opens up about the mission behind White Sands—building an environment that prioritizes dignity, compassion, and real transformation for people navigating addiction and mental health struggles. Together, they dive into what separates White Sands from traditional treatment models, the urgent need for accessible care, and how recovery is not only possible, but a path to living fully again. This episode explores: -The White Sands philosophy: treating people, not just problems -Why mental health and recovery conversations belong at the forefront -The growing challenges in addiction treatment today -Stories of hope and transformation from the White Sands community -Why The Determined Society is proud to have White Sands as a Presenting Sponsor This is more than a discussion—it’s a reminder that with the right support, determination, and environment, recovery is always within reach. Connect with me : https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGA Stephen Sundquist https://www.instagram.com/thesteve310/ White Sands Treatment Centers https://www.instagram.com/whitesandstreatment/ https://linktr.ee/whitesands_?utm_source=linktree_profile_share&ltsid=0fd40255-d9eb-460d-9eed-1d9197202607 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You're about to make a trade. Which you do you listen to? Is it get optioning those options? Or let's do a little research. Learn more at finra.org slash trade smart. What do you like most about working with White Sandsman? I think the company culture, I think, empower their employees. Okay.

It's a well-oiled machine. You know, they have systems in place for certain things that other places don't have. And it's just a great setup and there's great structure. Most of the therapists here have been here for an extended tenure, which says a lot. Lindsay Henry's the VP of Clinical Services at White Sands, and she's phenomenal what she does, you know, has a grasp on everything that happens here. And all of her therapists are tenured by at least five, six, seven, somewhere here, 11 years.

Once you have someone here that knows the program, knows how things work, you know, clients get better experiences at that point. I think that's your guy is a secret sauce. Everybody's been amazing. Everybody's welcoming. and, you know, I wasn't expecting it. That's pretty much how it's like for the patients to come in, right? They're met with love, letting them know, hey, listen, you're not alone. You know, there is help and, you know, just kind of grab our hand in a sense.

Let us take you through this journey. What's up, everybody? I got a special one for you today. I'm here on site at White Sands Treatment Center in Fort Myers, Florida. They are our powered by sponsor. So I just want to say, thank you again, White Sands, for one heck of a partnership and collaboration. We're out there, helping people get better, helping people get health. and living better life.

So today, I have with me someone that I go way back with Stephen Sunquist. Man, so good to see you. Welcome to the show. Appreciate you having me all, man. We finally did it. Dude, I mean, we've talked about it, man. We've talked about it at agnosium. And finally we found a way.

And so for the viewers, man, you want to work with someone. You want to do some cool stuff. Wait for the right moment because if you're paying attention, it'll sneak up and bite you right in the ass. And here we are, man. It's cool, dude. I love it, man. So it's, you know, every now and again, I get to, you know,

have conversations, you know, with people that I go way back with. And it's always fun, man, because the energy is different, right? So you know where I was in 2008 or nine, right? I mean, shit, dude, I was living with my mom there. I lost everything prior to the mortgage meltdown. You know, you were dating my sister and that's how we met. And here we are. So, dude, we had an amazing tour of the facility, you know, prior to us sitting down here today

and shooting this episode. what I found most amazing, right? You're driving by on colonial road. You see this big building, White Sands Treatment Center. And it's like you see, you know, this building that we're in. I'm like, oh, okay.

Like, that's all it is, huh? But what this place actually is, there's nine model homes back there that you can't even see from the street. It's like these individuals that get to come to this treatment center and recover and heal and get healthy, they're living in actual,

You know life where they can make coffee in their in their house. They have a bedroom. They can do their laundry in there. There's a full-scale cafeteria. Right over here to my right, you walk through those doors is a badass gym that they can go and move their body. So they're working on their mental, spiritual, right, and physical health. I mean, this place is amazing, man.

Yeah. It's definitely a top option, I'd say, based on my experience of what I've seen, you know, working in this space after finding myself through recovery, you know, and it's a, it's, a safe place. Everybody really cares here and they go the extra mile. The clinical is above average. I'll tell you that, man. There's a lot of great things. White sands has to offer the community for sure. You know, I walked in here, man. And, you know, a lot of times when you walk in a place and you got cameras showing up, people kind of look at you sideways, like, who the hell is this guy? And what are we doing here? Everybody here, I got to tell you, man, from everybody here on site with Mark,

you know, you, Mike, and then even, you know, Casey over there on the other coast. Man, I wish she was able to be here today. I was really looking forward to meeting her soon. You better get your butt over here. But everybody's been amazing. Everybody's welcoming. And, you know, I wasn't expecting it. Yeah, and that's pretty much how it's like for the patients to come in, right?

They're met with love from the embrace at the doors, you know, letting them know, hey, listen, you're not alone. You know, there is help. And, you know, just kind of grab our hand in a sense. Let us, let us take you through this. journey, you know, and just trust one person if it's one person. What do you like most about working with White Sands, man? I think the company culture, I think they empower their employees.

Okay. And that's really important to someone like me. But I just think it's a well-oiled machine. You know, they have systems in place for, you know, certain things that other places don't have. And it's just a great setup and there's great structure. And, you know, there's a, activities for people to do, you know, they have choices, right?

It's not like you have to go here. You know, there are certain groups where they have the ability to pick which ones they want to do based on what they're going through. I think it's really cool. And, you know, I'm going to come back to another point in that that I want to make. But what I'm digging about this place is that, you know, you talk about structure, but we're also talking about an actual lifestyle. Because I, and, you know, I've never been in recovery.

And I'm grateful for that, right? I've done some messing up in my life, right? But it never turned into, you know, an addiction or, you know, a long, extended lifestyle type situation. But when people think of in-treatment centers, they think of hospitaly environment, sterile environment, you know, someone shoving pills down your throat, being mean to you. But what I've seen here is, and I alluded to it at the beginning of the episode, man, they have community time where they can get out there and, you know, like a gazebo and sit around

in a circle and. have some conversation. They can, they all eat in the cafeteria at the same time. Then they can go out and play cornhole and some connect for, get a lift in, but also not disconnect from their families

and have their device time when it's, when it's approved to FaceTime their family and stay connected with the outside as much as possible. I think it's important for people to know 100% that about this place. Yeah, I mean, you know,

it's kind of like a thing, right? We don't, we don't want to completely disconnect you from your lifestyle and your family and friends, but, you know, also having just that fine line with a boundary of, you know, are you applying yourself here for the day if you did great? You know, here's your reward in a sense. I think it's great, you know.

I didn't have that when I was in treatment. I definitely could have benefited from it, I think. Yeah. So let's talk about that if you don't mind. Okay, so I don't remember what year was. I remember you opening up to me about it. I mean, I think it was several years ago. Yeah, yeah.

Years run together from me now, dude. I mean, sometimes I don't even know what freaking month it is. 2017. 2017, okay. So not too long ago, right? What was the deal, man? Oh man, it stems back to high school for me. You know, I was a great baseball player like yourself and had a lot of potential to play at the next level and had a freak accident happen on the mound. And that was my introduction of pain pills, took him as prescribed. And essentially, when I healed from my surgery, my arm wasn't nearly as strong. So I only knew myself as Stephen the baseball player. I didn't know who I was without sports, you know, so it was kind of like an identity crisis thing. And I spent the next seven, eight years, you know, searching for that high. high that I never found, you know, and obviously a lot of hurt, a lot of consequences along the way. And it's just, you know, a lot of athletes go through a similar process I've experienced, you know, with working with others today. You know, it's just, you know, some people, you know,

find their calling in a sense in life. And, you know, I feel like, you know, anybody that goes through this process will have the same calling in a sense. And that's just to, you know, pay it forward, you know, help the next person in line. That's just what I've done. I've found. a great career and, you know, helping people now. And it's just, it's something that found me, you know, based on my experience. You don't find that that often. And we're going to take a quick break to hear from our powered by sponsor. We're proud to announce a partnership between White Sands Treatment Centers and the Determined Society. With multiple locations across Florida, White Sands provides luxury, top-rated addiction treatment from medical detox and inpatient

care to outpatient support and long-term after care. Their resort-style campuses, expert clinicians, and holistic programs create real lasting recovery. Together, we're committed to bringing hope, resources, and healing to those who need it most. White Sands Treatment Centers. I think that when you are put in the path where you finally listen to the higher power of going in your path of where you're supposed to be, you fall in. to it, right? Like, I fell into this. It was an accident. Now it's on purpose, right? But, you know, I was really bad at it for a very long time. And, you know, with you, you know, getting the healing

and the treatment that you needed, put you on this path to be involved in this amazing treatment center here at White Sands. You know, I want to go back to your experience and treatment. And here's why because I want the listeners and the viewers to understand the difference because you alluded to it right I wish I would have had something like this in my recovery so what does that look like on the other side of it yeah sure so you know for me baton rouge Louisiana is where I got sobered do you know that St. Christopher's addiction wellness how do you get sober in baton rouge bro it's our connection that man uh but yeah I just feel like you know obviously over a period of time like things can become mundane I just looked at it for what it was

was, right? I was like, you know, because I had been in treatment a couple of times. I'm, you know, I'm not like a one, one time wonder, you know, I had to fall on my face a couple of times to really feel it. But I feel like, you know, it gets mundane and repetitive and, you know, you miss your family and friends. And I feel like, you know, like, yeah, I was able to make calls through the therapist's office, you know, like once a week. But, you know, sometimes it's just nice to check in, you know, just let, let someone know where you're at, you know, someone that knows you for where you've been, you know, so I love the concept here of, you know, how things are done. And obviously, you know, after a certain period of time, you know, the, the clients are viewed here as guests,

you know, because their, their days done is kind of what Mike was talking about. And I just think that's, that's, that's important for them to feel that, you know, because they, they feel that sense of responsibility to do the right thing, you know, and you're given a leash in a sense. You know, it's like, you know, show, show us that you want this, you know, and then those are the, those are the people that typically get it, you know, and I just, for me, right, it was just, you know, I came down to a point where it was just like, all right, am I going to allow this stuff to consume me or am I going to put an effort to, you know, put the action forth of just getting better and not ever having to go back into one of these places again. That's just really what it got to for me. Just being sick and tired,

you know, getting the same result every time, wondering why, you know, in a sense. But I realized, I never really put forth the effort to be disciplined with my recovery, to be disciplined with other things in life, you know, so that's, that's really where it is for me today. It's pretty awesome because I can look back and I remember seeing on Facebook and LinkedIn, all of a sudden, you know, you're having new spots, you're doing amazing things, talking about your recovery. I'm like, damn, man, this is brave. You know, in your healing and in your treatment, was there any training on kind of how to reintroduce yourself to society and be open and vulnerable about your experience.

Yeah, I think it just came down to just walking through that fear and just freeing myself from whatever I thought I was holding back, you know, and that was kind of like the aha moment from me when I shared about some stuff that had been like kind of swept under the rug over the years, you know, and just voicing that and seeing the feedback from other people that were in the group at the time. Like, damn, like, thanks for sharing that, man. You helped me so much.

It's just like, if something clicked for me in that moment, you know, and I was like, wow, okay, I see the importance. of the power of my voice and me sharing my truth. You know, it's just touching so many lives. So that's been a constant theme for, you know, most of my sobriety. That's good, man. I'd imagine, you know, White Sands is the same thing, right? They really prepare people to go out there and feel comfortable and not for the past. Because I think, I mean, look, man, let's be honest. Like, you know, we had an off-camera conversation just about life situations and how a lot of times people hold you hostage, who you were at that time. How is it for people, you know, coming out of white sands and even

for yourself, reintroducing yourself back into society and people have that label on you, right? Or might, you know, because for me, dude, I didn't know that. I didn't know that about you. Like, it wasn't like an overall, like, arguing like, this dude is, you know, addicted to, you know, medication, right? It wasn't, in my circle, like, I didn't, I had no idea. But my, my long, question is is actually pretty simple. I'm just having a hard time getting to the point, which a lot of times I do, right? I ramble. But it's like the people that come out, right, and they feel like this new lease on life. And they get back into the same circle potentially. And the people on the outside hold their past against them. That can't be good for them.

No, I think it just comes down to where you reevaluating, you know, what's important in your life like I had to do. and I still do it like every year, right? It's like a thing that's just become naturally. It's like, you know, if it's not serving you, unfortunately, it's not really as important in your life as at once was, and that goes for friend groups and places to hang out and just things change, you know, and it just comes down to what is adding to your recovery. You know, if someone's, you know, talking negatively about you all the time

and they're probably not the best for you to have in your life, you know. So my friend's groups changed over the years. Obviously, you know, I'm not finding myself hanging. hanging out in bars anymore and things like that, but it's just, you know, things change. So, you know, here, you know, is there, is there, with some of the treatments here, and then even, I mean, there's outpatient therapy, so want to be clear. Yeah. This is just not an inpatient facility where you come to detox for 10 days.

You can become a guest here for 30 days and there's outpatient stuff. There's family counseling, right? There's a bunch of different things. Do you prepare, do you just prepare them for the potential, like, hey, this could be imminent that you're changing friend groups and you're going to have to leave people behind. Yeah, there's constant redirection with that. You know, preparing for discharge. Obviously, there's a whole process that we do before someone is ready to discharge.

We're going to make sure that they have resources lined up for them to have that support and accountability. But yeah, man, it's something that's always being addressed. You know, it gets brought up in groups too. They'll have process groups where everyone will give feedback around, you know, the things that, you know, they're talking about. like that. I think it's important, right? Because when you're in treatment and your healing, to have that open conversation about going back out there and the adjustments that you may have to make in your life, I think it's really cool for people, especially here. I mean, you know, and again, we got a lot of video of this place, man. I can see this place as people hanging out,

you know, when it's wrecked time being like, you know what? I'm really scared about this. when I leave here. And it could be this conversation that one person's vulnerability about their fears opens up everybody else to talk about it. And then all of a sudden become like a community and support group that when they do get reintroduced

back into their normal lives, they're able to call on each other, man, and go over these things. Yeah, that was probably one of the most, you know, beneficial times, right? Just, you know, conversing. with the community and conversing with like the support staff like we were talking about out there,

you know, those were some of the best conversations I had in treatment, you know, and eventually it's cool to see where, you know, the other clients or guests, you know, they're able to hold another client accountable, you know, for where they're at. And that's the, that's the coolest part about this whole thing. Well, the thing that I really love too about this place is not just the bells and whistles, man. It's the people that work here. Again, I alluded to it earlier, but most people in here that work here have gone through it. Now, everybody always says, what do I do in this world? Like, who am I most equipped to help?

And the answer always is, you're equipped to help and support the person you once were. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, that's a mission here. You know, like, you can't lead people from their hell, you know, out of their personal hell or their personal jail unless you've been through it because you don't have you don't have any sympathy. Like I couldn't, I couldn't do it. Not because I wouldn't want to,

but like I don't have the reference. I don't have the experience in this. Yeah, those are the things that I love to touch on, man, and talk about on, you know, platforms and stages, like that vulnerability piece, man. Like, if I didn't tell somebody, they probably wouldn't know I had been through that today. You know, whereas, you know,

I can literally bring up the exact, emotions, the exact feelings of how it feels to be stuck in that place and a slave to a substance, you know, and it's just that's the relatability factor that sometimes can help people get through those early phases because I know that I couldn't have done it if someone else hadn't came to me and said, hey, listen, I've been through this, you know, just I'm going to take you through this, you know, just trust me, you know. Well, I'm interested because I've, like I said before, I've never been, you know, addicted to a substance to where it has a stranglehold on me.

what goes on psychologically when you're in the middle of it, you know you need to stop because it's potentially going to ruin your life or lose your life and then still go and like, okay, well, last one, right? This is my last one. I would imagine there's a lot of that, but psychologically, what do you go through during that? It's like a never-ending rat race, man.

You know, you can have the best intentions one day and wake up, say, you know what, I'm not going to do it today. And then, you know, an hour or two later goes by and something, happens, right? Out of our control, like most things are in life. And, you know, that's a, then it restarts the insanity in your head where you can't get that obsession out of your head until you put one in your body. And, you know, that is the stuff that people want to hear, right, of just like how to break through that, you know, and typically, you know, there's never a good time that's, you know, going to align that says, you know, today's the day I'm going to go get help.

It never happened like that for me. But, you know, I can tell you if you're in that place, you're feeling stuck, there is a better way out. And there are people like us that are willing to help at any given moment. But it's just a, it's an insane cycle, man. It's just, you know, you can try to trick yourself any which way on, okay, I'm going to use just on the weekends or I'm going to use only on Friday or, you know, and it'll never, it'll never, you'll never get out of it like that. You know, it's crazy to me because, you know, now it's different. And what I mean by that is I want everybody to hang on here, one pill can literally kill you now. 100%.

So, you know, back in 17, you know, oh, granted, you're probably getting prescribed or whatever, but, you know, people getting, you know, these pills on the streets, they can literally kill them. Story for you. Two years ago in July, it was two years in July, my former first baseman at Canterbury, Evan Ames, had an injury at Chapoilla Junior College where he dislocated in his elbow and he was in a lot of pain and in my humble opinion he rushed back he should not have played that that same year and he did and he did okay um but you know he came home for the summer right had his 20th birthday or something like that in June and you know he was going through a lot of and his prescription ran out and he went

down to San Carlos, you know, Fort Myers got one, and there was six pills in there, and he took a quarter of one. He died. And I just, oh, it was definitely fentanyl. Oh, one billion percent was fentanyl. So, you know, all to say, you know, and again, there was, they found what was in there, you know, and there was only a quarter of a pill missing. He wasn't abusing it. An addict would have taken one or two. He took a quarter of it, and he had a dirty pill. And it's something that I feel like it needs some major awareness because it could be one time. There's kids. There's kids that are in college that are under so much stress, like, I just need some adderall.

So they go buy Adderall and it kills them because it's laced with a deadly dose of fentanyl. So this is a big problem in our country. You know, how do you think that, I mean, I don't want to get political, but I know there's, you know, different things going on in Texas. We're trying to keep fitting all out of the country and everything like that. But, but man, like in my day, if I or your day, if we were doing something like that, there was no such thing. Yeah, they're counterfeiting, you know, X-Pills.

I've even heard of it being laced in some marijuana for, you know, some of the, you know, adolescents to get a hold of them. And it's terrible. But yeah, there's so many counterfeit pills all over the place. I've lost so many people to, you know, that stuff too. Man, it's just, it's insane. But, yeah, there's got to be something that that can be done to prevent that. And it is political.

I mean, it is political, right? But, I mean, fuck it. Let's go there. It's like, why are we not? It's just like school shootings. Yeah. Right? Not just like it, but it's like, we're talking about two things that are very deadly, right?

I want Navy SEALs or retired veterans at every entrance of every school on the roof. Like, you see someone going on the side. Boom, you're done. like why risk the life right same thing with fentanyl we know it's killing people but we're not doing anything about it or we may be i mean but it's it takes a while to get it out right i think now current administration's doing very focused on it much more yeah very focused on it right um but but dude it it is a scary thing man and to your point about marijuana i was having this conversation with my wife one day i'm like when we were kids if we decided to do something stupid

You know, out behind the, the portables or whatever, or, you know, with your buddies at a party, which was never what I did, right? And I was always hitting in the garage. It's on my hands blood. So that was my excuse not to go out and do stupid shit. It's like, no, I just got to get better. So I'm not doing that. But, you know, now you do something stupid like that, you could die.

And so it begs the question, right? Like, that substance is readily available out on the street, but also in dispensaries. It's almost like, I would rather it, you know, like a 21-year-old kid when he's 21 to walk into a dispensary and get it and not die. But I know we're not here promoting the legalization of marijuana. But my point is it could save them from getting a dirty dose or a dirty dime sack. Is that what they call it? Yeah, it's like playing Russian roulette in a sense out there with the drug dealers on the street, man. You don't know what you're going to get.

I mean, I know they got like these fentanyl testing kits, but how. How many. Are they accurate? I don't know. I mean, who knows? I never used one. So I don't know. Wow, man.

I don't think it was even a thing back then, was it? Fentanyl was slowly making its way towards the end of 2017 for me. There was a couple of times where I feel like there was some stuff that I had that was for us for us. Wow, man. Wow. It's scary. Yeah, it is.

It's scary. Yeah. To be honest with you, I mean, I'll be real. When I'm in that place, like, I didn't care. about living or dying. It was just about getting the next one. That's how crazy this is. Yeah, go on that because...

Yeah, you just get to this place where you're just... You lose all control and you need that fix to feel like you can survive, you know? And it's just... You just don't care, you know? And, like, obviously, like, if I would have been real, I really didn't want to die at the time.

But, you know, it's just like the emotions and just how dead you feel inside, you know, just I didn't care at a time. Like, you know... Yeah. It's kind of like, if I'm going to do this. Yeah. And if that's my fate, that's my fate.

And then I'm out of pain, right? Yeah, yeah. Does that ever cross your mind? Yeah, it did. But I always played it forward, right, and thought I like my family or, you know, my daughter now. You know, like, that's a whole other ball game, you know, but that would be, that would be tragic, you know. And I never wanted to leave my family with that. Thank God it never happened.

But, you know, yeah, yeah. It's heavy, man. You know what I mean? Because I don't know what it's like. You know, like I know at a very small scale. I think truly there was a food addiction, but not the same. Yeah, yeah. Not the same.

But I can also relate to I just need that cookie. And then I'd eat that cookie and then I would have more and more and more. And I would binge. I would binge on it, right? And so I would imagine something like that is infinitely, less serious than having depend on, you know, a drug, like a real, real drug that can literally take a hold of you and control your whole life. I can't even imagine because at times I felt like I couldn't control it. Again, it was painful. And it was like, you get dressed in the morning,

you don't feel right in anything. You feel horrible. I can't even. imagine what it's like overcoming what you and so many people in the center are working to overcome. Yeah, there's a lot that goes along with it. Obviously, like the emotional and mental side, but the physical, like your body just deteriorates. Like whenever I'm, you know, whenever I was like strung out on opiates or pain pills, man, like I have lost so much weight drastically. Like, you know, it's just very unhealthy. Very, very unhealthy.

Yeah, you could see it, you know. and, you know, everything within that person most of the time wants to deny that there's a problem, you know, and it's tough for a lot of men to ask, you know, for help, first of all. So I feel like that's kind of what prevented me from asking for help for so many years, although I knew I needed help. I just couldn't, you know, get the courage enough to ask for it, you know. And it wasn't until someone came along that pretty much told my story. I'm like, all right, maybe this guy knows, you know.

And those are the people that I kind of immersed myself with, just to stay in the middle of it. The weight loss. Is that just because you wouldn't eat? I mean, is that what it does? I think for the most part, it curbs your appetite. But, you know, I think there's also some things in there that deteriorate muscle growth and stuff too. I would assume, yeah.

When you were doing that, were you still lifting wage? No, you were just out. Yeah, you were doing it. Yeah, just full blown. Yeah. Who was the catalyst for you, man, that led you to your recovery? A couple of guys that I met in A.A. That had been in the middle of the solution for years, and they were guys my age.

You know, they just pretty much took me under their wing, you know, introduced me to their contacts and just, you know, built a support group for myself. So you were trying. Like, you were actively trying and going to try to get help. It was just, you know, you needed a little bit more support. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's pretty awesome. Not awesome that you're in the situation, but awesome that you were trying. because a lot of people are forced into it.

You know, a lot of the people that are forced into it, that's a longer road to recovery, isn't it? For sure. Yeah. There's, you know, they have things like the Marchman Act, which is involuntary commitment to treatment. You know, if someone displays signs or symptoms that they're adjudged to themselves or others, there's laws to get someone help.

How's that different from the Baker Act? Baker Act is just more of for... Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you.

Said you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rince, it's time to be great. Like mental health. Okay.

If someone is, you know, say suicidal, right? You know, they're maybe not necessarily struggling with substances. It's just a psychiatric hold for 72 hours, get them evaluated, maybe placed into a facility where the Marchman Act, it's a similar process, but it's more geared towards getting them to treatment for an extended period of time. So it saves lives, you know, it's there for a reason, but it's definitely, it's not the prettiest process, you know,

for having it all unfold how it does, but it does work, you know. Yeah. But Florida is one of the only states that has that law, too. Well, there's another one in Kentucky called Casey's Law. It's very similar. But yeah. You know, it's funny. I was having a conversation.

I can't remember what show it was. It was a journalist and was on Fox for many years and he's got the only thing going on now. If the Baker Act and the Marshman Act will work in Florida, why can't it work in Massachusetts? Why can't it work in California? Why can't it work in Idaho? You see my point? Say, if you see something that's working, why? I feel all states should adopt that because there's any, you know, in, you know, in,

in the work that I do for interventions, you know, there's, there's so many times where I've been in a state where there isn't, like, a involuntary order. They'll call it something else. I think Massachusetts, it's like a 5150,

but it's all, you too, I think. Yeah. It's all, like, psychiatric stuff. There's nothing geared towards treatment and getting them,

you know, committed to a facility for an extended period of time. So the Marchman Act is actually up to 90 days, too. So that, you know, promotes, you know, healing at the end of it,

you know, with the longer, length of stay, you know, obviously will correlate to more sobriety for most people. Yeah, it just, it's a question that I really, you know, I wish we could find the answer to. And again, I'll go back to school shootings. There's a solution. Why aren't they doing it? My buddy Patrick Dearborn always says, they. Whoever they are, they want us fighting. And it's wild to me because the human life is so valuable. No matter, There's plenty of tragedy that goes on anyway, right?

There's there's car accidents. There's work accidents, right? There's cancer. There's heart attacks. Like, why do we need so many other things going on if they could be fixed? Yeah, I agree. Is it money? I don't know.

I don't know, to be honest with you. I just know that, you know, I feel like every state has the ability to do it. It's just something. What is it? What's holding me? back. Every, every state in the union has the resources to, to guard our schools, too. I mean, look, I hate to, I mean, like, listen, we're talking about it, right? Because, you know, it kind of ties in. You know, we're talking about fentanyl. We're talking about getting

that out of our country and saving lives. We're talking about kids. Do you think it's fair that, you know, in three years, when you drop your daughter off at school, that you got to worry if she's going to come home every day? Yeah, no, I don't know. That's just, because I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be real with everybody watching and listen right now. My biggest fear every single day is when my kids go to freaking school and they're out of prep school. Okay. And they have armed guards on there and they have bulletproof windows. It's still, every time my kids leave the house, I go out in the car and I give them a kiss no matter what's going on.

Sometimes I love bomb the shit. I'm like, let me get daddy on the other kiss. I love you guys so much. Have a safe day. Have a great day. Honestly, it scares me when my. kids and my wife leave the house every morning. It's not fair.

No, yeah. It's not something you should have to think about. But America is one of the very few countries. I want to say the only country, but the trolls and the fact checkers might hit me on this one. But I'm going to say the only country where parents have to worry about their children every single day going to school. It's like, what are we doing? Like, what are we doing? Anyway, and we're getting sidebarred.

But it's important because it, again, I truly feel it all. ties in. Like, there's ways to to remove drugs I mean, fit in all from the streets. And I, and again, I think we're, we're, I think we're doing a better job at it now. I think there's a lot of focus on it. But all to say, I want to change lives. I want to help people's life

get better. So just the opportunity to do that with you for someone I've known for so long and watch grow in everything that you're doing and watch you grow in your recovery and you getting out there, you know, in front of cameras and press and telling your story, man, it just means so much. I appreciate it, man. And likewise for you, dude,

you know, starting in your car and look at you now. Top-ranked podcast in the entire United States and global, right? I mean, I don't know. Okay. I mean, maybe. It's hard because the rankings never have like global rankings, right? You have, on Spotify, you have, you know, United States and you can filter it down, right? And then you go to Apple and you can filter it down to your category.

and then overall, right? And here's the thing, there's about 6 million in the United States of America. There's a ton. And I'll get pissed when I dropped like 60 overall, right? But the thing that's interesting to me

is that there's, you know, there's some software as like Mopod. You can go and you can, you know, click on this link and it's always changing. It's always updating. So I can put my show in there and see where I'm ranked. Sometimes I'm, you know, top 20 in Turkey.

That's awesome. You know, you don't know. that right but so it's like it's one of those things that as long as we put good conversations out and we're having good conversations and we do things differently than everybody else i think we'll always have a place there and i think we're very close to a massive explosion like it's just this energy i feel it's i told a team that i'm like hey i tell you know my friends that you know to produce my show great media i go hey put your seatbelt on guys we're probably there's like dude we know you're going to say it. You're going to say it again. But no. It's funny because I'm pretty much right every

time because there's a, there's a, you know, that hockey stick, right? It's like we're getting real steep and there's constant movement. And so with that said, when that happens, that's what I'm most proud of. So I'm most proud of like you talk about the rankings. We can talk about all that. I love the rankings. I do. Would it, would it be great if I, you know, got to number one? Absolutely. because it means something different to me. See, this is, that's what people, most people don't understand. I put that stuff out there,

I post about it, I put my stories because I want to drive people to the show because I know at one point they're going to need to hear the guest. It's not about me, it's about the guest. If we can bring that value and help them change their lives,

that's what I care about. The ego and the, and the prides, dude, throw that out the window. I don't care. Yeah. I don't care. I think,

I'm all about, like, solution today and, you know, getting back to like the discipline part, man, like that's, that's just like, I feel like every man aspires to have like that discipline where it's untouched, you know, like you're just focused, deadlocked, you know, because that's when I feel like we're ever our best. But yeah, I, um, completely blacked out what I was just about to say. What happened? Did he, did he pass out on us? Yeah, I think I just blacked up. It's okay. It's fine. You can talk about, so where you go, but even with discipline, right? Like, let's just go out there because this is good.

This is what I like when we have real moments like that on the show. Completely just blacked out though. But that's normal. People can relate to that. Yeah. People are like, yeah, I know exactly what happened because I do that all the time. Right. But here's the thing with it.

It is the discipline part, right? It pays to be disciplined. Because through discipline, you gain confidence. Through confidence, you gain momentum. Through momentum, you gain more activity. And through activity, you gain results. But at the same time, I think it's all. also super important for everybody watching and listening is like,

there's a such thing as being overly rigid and disciplined. You have to enjoy your life a little bit, man. Like David Gaginsstein? Dude, but it works for him, man. Yeah, it does. That's his playground. I mean, like, I was messing with Ryan before. I'm like, don't get me eating this donut on camera.

No, how with that? And I was joking. I went like this to it. I was like, that's balance. Yeah, of course. Like, I'm going to have that. Of course. But then I know the rest of the day.

I need to load up on solely proteins and whole food. Like I can't play I can't play later I probably can't play tomorrow But today I got me a nice Kris cream donut man Like that was good It's just the funny thing about discipline right

Yeah, it's the thing There can't be too much of everything There's like there needs to be You know a healthy balance to what we're doing And back to white sands That's what I see here See I don't believe balance exists in a work-life balance scenario.

Yeah, I've always tried to attain it, and it always seems like I'm searching for it. Do you know why? It's just things are always ever-changing. I feel like nothing stays consistent. You're in great shape, so you lift weights, right? You have your daughter. You have a job.

You have to sleep. What else? You have to eat. You have to manage your friendships, you know, a potential romantic relationship. That's seven things. Can you give eight hours a day to each one of them? balance doesn't exist.

You can't do it, right? What we need to really shoot for is presence. Exactly. Yeah. Right? And so, like when you're with your daughter on the nine holes, right, the par three course that she took her two, three weeks ago. It's not about staying there for the 18 holes.

She's two. She can't do it. It's hot. Like, come get your girl, bro, right? But you had those moments with her and you were present with her. That's what wins. So our children and our spouses and our friends, they just want us to be locked in on them,

even if it's for an hour. Yeah, exactly. Right? And it sucks because these stupid devices, like I'm sitting here with you. And at one point, I mean, you're sitting down ready to record the show.

I'm like, oh, but we have to do that. I mean, it's, you know, in the morning, like I'm not going to let a force fire burn if I can put it out. And same thing with you, right? We have people that are dependent on us. But balance is something that I don't believe is achievable.

If you're looking at it to a quake. it to something like evenly balanced things now or time, you know, I must spend four hours here, four hours here, six, I mean, you can't do that. But here, this is a very balanced and neutral place, meaning you have water features, you have all these different, a gym, so people can live a life and try to balance as much as humanly possible between mental, you know, and physical health. and spiritual health. Yeah.

It's the approach here, Mike was talking about outside. It's just about like the whole person, like the whole person-centered approach, right, with just the holistic, you know, healing, you know, the mental approach, the physical. I mean, it all correlates to overall wellness for anybody, first of all, especially for people in recovery.

So, yeah, I think it's a great approach. I think it's the only approach that ever worked for me, to be honest with you. You know, I've tried a bunch of different modalities of therapies over the years and, you know, Just the holistic approach is typically the most universal for most people. You brought up a good point. Because addiction and whether it's binge eating, whether it's drugs or even, you know, certain websites for people.

There's something going on with the person. Right? There's a root cause. The other stuff's a symptom. 100%. So you have to attack the root, right? And that's a hard thing to do. Yeah.

So that's kind of like what all of the clinical teams, you know, role here is to kind of like push these individuals here to discover their why. Why, you know, why did they start drinking at 15 years old or why did, you know, they become addicted at 40 years old later in life? There's always an event, at least in my experience, that, you know, is traumatic in the sense that either shut someone down or maybe they learn a bad coping mechanism from that experience. and it just, you know, and then they find alcohol one day or they find, you know, whatever it is, you know, I feel like each person's journey is different in a sense. But yeah, I feel like they're... When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information.

That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at good to know facts. org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit good to know facts.org. There's always an underlying issue of why people become addicted in the first place. You know, for me it was, you know, underlying trauma as a child, you know, or, you know, how I chose to suppress things that were negative in my life, you know, and I just kind of pushed to the side, you know, later in life, I realized that, okay, I'm a, I'm a runner, you know, and bad things come up. I'll just disappear. I don't, I don't address it, you know, and that was like another awakening in a sense of, you know, I didn't discover that until

a couple years into my sobriety, you know, it was like, okay, like, this is a, this is an issue. I need to, I need to look at this, you know, and put some effort into, you know, how can I, you know, not be that way? And, you know, now, like the, the alternative to that is, you know, if there's an issue in a relationship or, you know, whatever, I have to address it immediately. And it's like that internal voice in your head that tells you, get up and make your bed or get up and, you know, do this. And then we choose to go against it. You know, that's when things get hairy for me, you know, and I feel like, yeah. No, sorry, great perspective because outside look again, I would say your impending event was your injury.

Now, potentially, your injury was the impending event that played on your childhood trauma that caused, that caused this. So it all, you see this equation here? You have to know these things, right? Why did I binge eat? It's not because I wanted to look like shit.

It's not because I wanted to feel terrible in the morning and my body ache from inflammation. No, it was because I didn't feel like I was enough. Exactly. Yeah, it could be simple as just grief and loss too or,

you know, self-esteem issues like it was for me at times, you know, like I was always thin growing up. I always wanted to be, you know, a little bit bigger, a little more filled out. So it was like inferiority complex growing up a little bit with that. There was a bunch of different things going on, you know, and it just comes down to talking about it to discover it, you know.

And once you discover it, then you can start to recover. Amazing. I want to, I can't, you know, conclude the interview without touching on the clinical team, dude. Because you've mentioned clinical once. That was the original thing I wanted to go back to. And then I blacked out. I just didn't admit it.

I just kept fucking rolling. Like, baby, can you keep going, baby? Is the clinical team is second to none. And I want you to edify them a little bit. Sure. Talk about the experiences. You know, I met Lindsay here. She's diving in hard on the EMR system.

She's like locked in at 8.30 in the morning and intense and super smart. Very smart. I like her, even though she's from Vanderbilt. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah, very smart. So what I will tell you is that most of the therapist here have been here for an extended tenure, which says a lot.

I feel like, you know, clinicians are hard to come by, good ones that, you know, give it their all. And, you know, Lindsay's had, it all starts with Lindsay. Lindsay Henry's the VP of Clinical Services at White Sands. And she's phenomenal what she does, you know, has a grasp on everything that happens here. And all of her therapists are, you know, tenured by at least five, six, seven, somewhere here, 11 years. And I just feel like that speaks volumes of the programs, at least from my past experience working for other providers. There's a revolving door of therapists, you know, and they never really

seem to find the fit long term that makes the program up of what it is. And I just feel like once you have someone here that knows the program, knows how things work, you know, things just flow way better and clients get better experiences at that point. I think that's your guy is a secret sauce. Yeah. Yes, the facility's great. All the different things that you can do, here while you're a guest here. But the clinical aspect and the longevity of everybody here that's what sets this place apart.

Yes. Right. Right. We're not having a ton of turnover here. I say we like I work here. We. Part of it, man. I am. Right. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp. The secure

messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone all protected with end to end encryption it's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone learn more at what'sapp.com it's a it's a thing where when when people are at a place for a certain period of time every single clinician every therapist every every part of support staff knows the pros and cons of everything that happens here. And from that point, you're a solution-based person. They can find solutions implement

systems and programs to make sure, right, that that doesn't happen. I just want everybody watching listening to understand what that really means. That's big. It is, it is big. And, you know, I feel like, you know, especially with the ratio to patients to clinicians, you know, they keep it under a certain amount. So it feels like that individuality in care. which is so important for a patient to have adequate time with their therapists. I mean, like, that's your time to unload. You know, in the beginning for me, it was really about unloading in there until I felt comfortable of unloading in a group setting.

But that's where it starts, man. That's where the healing journey begins for sure. I love it, man. I love it. This has been fun, dude. Thanks, man. It's been a good time. One more question for you.

This is the determinants aside, right? So I like to ask this question. What is true determination? How do you define true determination? I think it starts with discipline, going back to discipline, determination. I feel like action. Action is determination. You know, like I can dream all I want in my head,

but if I'm not applying action to that word, it means nothing. That's the part when you need to do it, though. That's when you need to do it because that's when that's when the change is made, man. That's like going back to like the little. or thoughts in my head just telling me to do certain tasks throughout the day. I can ignore them if I want, but that's not going to make me better. It's not going to make me feel good. Yeah, I feel like determination is acting now.

Good. I love it. I love it. It's not as gritty and sexy as people think, right? It's showing up because you said you would. Yeah, of course. And that's the one thing that we love to talk about on the show. And I love when my guests bring that out because the listeners, they pay attention, right?

the viewers, they pay attention and they, everybody's looking for that silver bullet. What is going to make me better? What is going to make me more successful? And it's really about the one thing. The one thing that's holding you hostage. You take care of that thing, then you've got it.

Like you're well on your way to becoming much, much better because now you're not bogged down by this massive boulder, you know, sitting on your chest or your shoulders. I just think it's important to always ask that question. and tie in, like, what if you don't want to, right? I mean, I don't want to run tonight.

Yeah. I'm going to run tonight. Like, I must because my asshole team told me that I had to do a Spartan race with them. And I hate them every day, but I love them when I'm done with the work. Uh-huh. Right? I love them. I love them.

But, dude, thank you so much. Of course, for coming on. This was truly an honor. I love the fact that I was able to be infused into your world for, you know, a couple hours today. And for the audience listening, if there's anything in your life that you need to overcome, obviously around you saw the ad in the show. But really, you know, pick up the phone and call. It's a great place.

And we just want you guys to feel good. We want you guys to heal when you need to so you can be with your families and truly enjoy your life. And this is the one last thing I have to say to you guys. Until next time, stay determined. Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way. You want to sell those wheels You want to get a CarMax Instant Offer

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