Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset - William H. Macy: From Shameless to Soul on Fire

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

Academy Award nominee William H. Macy joins Shawn French on The Determined Society for a powerful conversation about his latest film, Soul on Fire — the true story of John O’Leary, a boy who defied the odds after a devastating fire and grew into a beacon of hope. In this wide-ranging discussion, Macy reflects on the film’s deeper message — that determination, compassion, and connection can pull us through even the darkest moments. From portraying legendary sportscaster Jack Buck to exploring the healing power of music, Macy brings humility and depth to every insight. He opens up about the creative process behind Soul on Fire, the challenge of balancing authenticity and artistry, and what drew him personally to the story. The episode also dives into Macy’s views on parenting, resilience, and defining success on your own terms — all anchored in the belief that ordinary people can do extraordinary things when fueled by purpose. This episode is an invitation to rediscover your own spark — and to believe, no matter what, that you can rise again. Key Topics: -Behind the making of Soul on Fire and the story of John O’Leary -Portraying Jack Buck and honoring his real-life legacy -The emotional power of music and Macy’s lifelong connection to it -Why community support and human empathy matter more than ever -Defining determination as the art of finding a way forward -Life lessons on parenting, common sense, and success Whether you know him as Frank Gallagher, Jerry Lundegaard, or one of the many unforgettable characters he’s brought to life, you’ll leave this episode with a new perspective on William H. Macy—the man behind the roles, and the fire that still drives him. Connect with me : https://link.me/theshawnfrench?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY2s9TipS1cPaEZZ9h692pnV-rlsO-lzvK6LSFGtkKZ53WvtCAYTKY7lmQ_aem_OY08g381oa759QqTr7iPGA William H. Macy https://www.instagram.com/williamhmacy/ SOUL ON FIRE MOVIE https://www.instagram.com/soulonfiremovie/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Wake up. Coming through. Coming through. How bad is it? He has burns to 100% of his body. And then I think the thing that really set the hook for me was John O'Leary. He is the most positive, upbeat guy in the world. There's not a tread of self-pity in him.

I think a lot of us, I know I do, can feel sorry for ourselves. very, very easily. In my family, we say, no self-pity in first class, honey. My wife's an empath, and she goes, hey, honey, I really want to watch this with you, but you're going to have to wake up early and watch it because I'm already anxious.

Probably when you're burned that badly, or when you're in that much pain, you don't want to be seen. You want to disappear. Jack Buck walks in, and he sees this kid, and that's powerful medicine to be seen. Just such a feel-good story. I mean, the whole thing, you know, that human connection and how humans really truly do at the heart of it care for one another.

All right, everybody, we are here today with William H. Macy. He's an absolute legend on the screen. And he most recently, in October, this amazing movie is coming out called Soul on Fire. And it's based on a true story about John O'Leary, who as a young boy had a freak accident at home and burned 100% of his body. I read this book way back in 2016 when it came out and it changed my life. It told me that if this man can get through one of the toughest things in his life and basically get through a zero percent chance of survival that I can get through some of the smallest issues and the adversity that I have going on in my life. And today I'm so blessed to have William here and to talk about the movie.

So welcome to the show, sir. Thank you, brother. It's good to be here. Oh man, I tell you what, you know, this weekend I watched the full, I woke up at 5 a.m. and watched the full screening. And it not only was it really, yeah, it was not only was it really cool to sit there and watch something, you know, ahead of time that you're in, but to be able to really digest my experience with the book so long ago and then watch you and the other characters bring the story back to life for me that made me just remember so much of the book. Even to your character, you played Jack Buck, man. That was such. a pivotal character in the movie, but also the book. So tell me about your experience with this film. It's similar to yours. If memory serves, I read the script early in the morning and I wept like a baby. I don't know.

The older I get, the easier I cry. It's getting embarrassed. My daughter's love to just, they howl at me as we're watching television. A commercial comes on and I'm crying. one. And then I read the book afterwards. It's a magnificent story. And then I think the thing that really set the hook for me was John O'Leary.

He is the most positive, funny, upbeat guy in the world. There's not a shred of self-pity in him. And I think a lot of us, I know I do. can feel sorry for ourselves very, very easily. We've got a phrase in my family. We say, no self-pity in first class, honey. We're lucky. We're blessed. And it was such a great story.

And I got to play Jack Buck, the famous announcer, fabulous voice, wonderful guy, interesting character, really interesting. Buck, his son is still an announcer. And if I can be candid, I don't look anything like Jack Buck. And I like the idea of doing all that makeup. And as it turns out, I didn't do that much makeup. There's a bit of it. But it's his hair, which is his signature.

And I decided early on that if my hair look like his hair, I'm halfway home and I thought that was enough. But Jack was an interesting guy. He was interestingly, and I got this from Joe, his son, he wasn't warm and runny with his family. He was a bit of a distant father. But so empathetic with these,

in his position of being an announcer and famous in town, these stories would come across his desk. and he was so empathetic and he helped so many people. He did it quietly too. And this story, John O'Leary's story, is a perfect example. He didn't make a big deal out of it. He just showed up and he kept showing up. I love the guy.

You know, William, it's interesting because a lot of times if someone of great power, like the voice of the Cardinals in this instance, they maybe go to the hospital once, right? But this man made it his mission to not just be there for him while he was in the hospital when he asked, hey, shoot me straight to the nurse, what are the chances? And they're like, just to be candid,

it's zero percent chance that he'll make it through the night. But he told me. It's a chilling scene, isn't it? It really is because, yeah, because that accident could happen to anyone. I remember growing up, and I don't know about you, but I remember being a little bit risky

if I would find some matches outside. Kids are fascinated with fire. And this specific incident where John O'Leary was burned, he saw some kids in the neighborhood or in this community playing with gasoline in the open area. His brothers. Was it his brothers? Oh, wow.

And raced home to do it. Yeah. Yeah, he saw the older kids at any rate. doing it and yeah i've been there you've been there and our parents have always said don't do that um kids are natural little pyromaniacs it's so magical fire and um it's a danger there's a left in here too it sure is the thing that i really again obviously the story is so real and and it hits home because like we talked about it could happen to any child, to anybody in this world, right? Because it's it's not a plane crashing onto your house or something like that, some low percentage problem.

It's, it's you can grab a match. You can grab a lighter, right? There's candles in houses, right? So it was interesting to me and it, my wife watched, my wife's an empath. And she goes, hey, honey, I really want to watch this with you, but you're going to have to wake up early and watch it because I'm already anxious because she just takes on that pain. I'm like, babe, this is like a feel-good story. This guy's life kept going. Like, I promise you he lived and he made a huge impact and is still making an impact. But, you know, when I look at everything that he went through and what was so heartwarming to me were the little things that your character did for him. Yeah. The thank you note thing to me. blew me away.

Thank you. Yeah. For your viewers. I'm with the audience to really, yeah, they really need to die. They really need to understand this portion. And we're going to take a quick break to hear from our powered by sponsor. We're proud to announce a partnership between White Sands, Treatment Centers, and the Determined Society. With multiple locations across Florida, White Sands provides luxury, top-rated addiction treatment

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And what you're referring to is that he invited him out to the ballpark to sit next to him during a Cardinals game. And one day in the mail a baseball arrives, signed by his favorite player. And there's a note saying, if you want another baseball by, I can't remember who, what player it was, write a thank you note. And what was significant about it was that his hands were horribly burned, probably worse than any of the part of his body. And his mother famously said, okay, let's get back to our piano lesson. And he learned how to play a piano with the stubs of his fingers. So writing was a big deal, and he refused to do it because he was in pain all the time, and he refused to do it.

But when he could get another baseball writing a thank you note, he wrote it. And it goes on, he has a collection to this day of about 18 baseballs signed by his favorite baseball players. And Jack Buck did that, and he learned how to write. Little things like that in this memoir And in this movie now chronicling that memoir just touched me And what really I think what we're really talking about is You know that human connection

And how humans really truly do At the heart of it care for one another And this was such a feel good story I mean the whole thing Yeah The whole thing Yes I think In our family we talk about this

My wife Felicity is tomorrow person I've ever met, but the way she refers to it is being seen, especially for a little kid, could be seen, that you're not just a kid, you're you. And John O'Leary, probably, I'm just making this up, but probably when you're burned that badly, when you're in that much pain, you don't want to be seen, you want to disappear, you. And that was a theme in his life, the love affair is just great in this film. This really good. He's really good.

It's really good. Anyway, Jack Buck walks in and he sees this kid. He sees him. He really looks at him and he sees him. And that's a powerful medicine to be seen. You know, especially from somebody that you look up to, right? I mean, he looked up to Jack Buck. I mean, you'd be right around the neighborhood, have his radio on, you know,

just listening to Cardinal Games. And quite honestly, when you're in a coma, I've never been in one, but I can only imagine they say that you can actually hear things. And I would venture to say that that man's voice to John O'Leary changed everything for him. Absolutely. Absolutely. I know a bit about this because I've been making movies for a long time. And sometimes, well, I'll be in an elevator and I'll say something to someone.

and I can see people go, wait a minute, I know that voice. Voices are powerful, really powerful. And if all you are is a voice, I mean, Jack Buck did a lot of work, altruistic endeavors, but mostly we grew up listening to his voice on the radio. And when that voice is in the room next to you, it's mind altering. It's so bizarre. It is. And I'll say this right now, right?

Because people ask me all the time, how is it interviewing these people? And when I'm in the interview, like right now I'm in this amazing conversation with somebody that I've watched on the screen for how many years? And all of a sudden, I'm having this amazing dialogue. It's a compliment. Okay. It's a compliment. You're an absolute icon. But I mean, the thing is, is that, you know, 10 years ago, I never thought I would be.

be on a call with William H. Macy, but here I am. And then you, the voice happens and the connection happens. And it just, it does mean more. It truly does. So I think people, if they ever get to experience that elevator moment, the camera moment, it's surreal, you know, but it's important to continue to dive deeper into that connection and the conversation once you're in it. And it's one of the things that I'm most blessed to have. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's power. Our film and TV and the actors, it still has me flummoxed a bit. I mean, I'm me. I don't know how I got to be this.

I don't fully understand it. I love acting, and I get that part of it. I know what the difficulties are. I know what to do when I pick up a script, and I know what I'm good and I know and I'm bad. But I think it was Elizabeth Gilder. who said, we have control over the process, but it's none of our business what the result is.

It's none of our business what people think about the book or the film. That's their business. Our purview is the work we do to make it. And so it's a weird position. I'm not gonna lie to you. No, it is, and I am relating to this, because I always say, you know,

it's one of these cliches ever says, marry the, you know, marry the process, divorce the result, right? So everything that I've done in my life, I really dive into process, right? So it's screening the movies. It's understanding what I can understand. And then from that point on, have the conversation, I can't control how it's received. I can control how I am in the moment based on my prep work, based on what I've done to get here. But I fully subscribe to it's none of my business on how people take.

what I say. Now again, I know that loosely, right? But I know you've experienced it. I know you and I haven't. I'm walking along. Somebody goes, dude, you're that guy. I watch you. I watch you all the time. It's heady, isn't it? It's weird. It's starting, you know, I'll be honest with you and in the viewers right now. It's starting to happen. It's starting to happen at the gym. It's starting to happen at the baseball park. It's starting to happen in the gas stations. And it's really cool because the best compliment I get, they're like, wow, you're the same guy on cameras. You're in person. I'm like, well, because I'm being me. This isn't an act. Like, I'm, like, I'm real. Like, this is exactly who I am. And I would

venture to say, because of who you are, like you said in that, that thought process you have of yourself, you're like, I don't know how I got to be here. I'm just me. Well, that's what wins. Yeah. Yep. That's wisdom. I learned a long time ago, if you try to figure out what they want, you will fail. If you figure out what you want, what you think is good, what you think is funny, and do that, you still might fail, but you'll keep your soul. Oh, man, that right there is so powerful. Because in a world of distraction, everybody's shooting or gunning for it, be somebody in something big.

Whether it's for themselves or for their families, they sometimes, lose themselves and lose their integrity big time, right? And I have an amazing accountability partner. You've mentioned Felicity and my wife Jacqueline. She made me promise from the very beginning. She goes, you will always be you, you will never lose your integrity or you have to quit. I said, done. Done. It's good. And, you know, and it's so important because that's how I feel you can be massively relatable to anybody is when you be that authentic version of yourself and come from a place of a burning desire soulfully.

I say to young actors, look, you have to learn how to be genuine and sincere. And the second you can fake that, you can have a great career. Oh, man. Let me ask you a question. This movie, I mean, obviously, It comes out in October, right?

What for you, what, how did you learn from or grow from playing Jack Buck? It's a complicated question. And it's, with all due respect, it's not a legitimate question because I, first of all, to make a film in order to teach people is probably the worst reason to make a film that I can think of. It's called entertainment. Our job is to tell a story that is true, first of all, true to the human experience, and is entertaining. It's got a beginning, middle, and end.

That's the job. What did I learn? That's a complicated question. Do you know, he's a real character. It's a look-alike. And I haven't really thought about what I've learned to that extent, except that if I ever do it again, I know this will affect that. And you asked earlier, what was it like to meet his son and his widow and his friends? And it was bizarre, and I was self-conscious and shy about it because here I walk, sort of dressed like.

their dad, their husband. And I didn't want it to be like a Saturday Night Live sketch. I wanted to make sure that they knew I thought that in order to tell this story, it was important that I looked like Jack Buck. And I don't know why I thought that. Well, I do know some of the reasons why I thought it was important to, look like him or at least take some steps in that direction. And that's because he was so well known. And a lot of the people that will see this film grew up watching Jack Buck and grew up

knowing what John O'Leary's story was. John, as you've hinted at, he gives speeches a lot. I don't know, 300 a year or something like that. Maybe that's not. that many, but 150 a year. And they're very inspirational and they change people's lives. So everybody knows all the players. And I thought to tell this story well, I should take some steps toward looking like Jack Buck. But to get back to my point, when I walked in and there was his son, I was self-conscious and a little shy. And I just prayed that he knew that in no way was making fun of his father or denigrating his memory because it's close but it ain't the same. It's just weird.

It has to be weird for them. So going forward, I mean, you know, to play Abraham Lincoln, you don't have to apologize to his wife. What else did I learn? I think I always knew it, but you touched on it. the power of a community surrounding you. When all hope is lost, I really believe that the group has more power than the individuals.

And I think that has a lot to do with why John and O'Leary survive this, because people willed it. And you can call it prayer, and you can call it divine intervention. and I don't know whether it is that or not, but I do know that the community, thinking the same thoughts and willing this thing to happen has power.

That was very beautifully said. And one of the things that you said in there is that you were self-conscious, right? And I think that's a basic human emotion. But my viewers and my listeners, a lot of times, and even myself in the, you know, maybe even back in the day we would look at somebody like you

or somebody on screen and be like there's no way they have any self-conscious thoughts going on. Touch on that a little bit because what I've found is that everybody in your position is really good at their job, right? But they're also human being.

And I think that a lot of times the public seems to disconnect them to do. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm just an actor, and that's my purview is rather small when it gets to a film. It takes a lot of people to make a film. And interestingly, the actors have an inordinate amount of power on one hand, zero on the other.

If you don't believe me, just wait until they rap you. If you're a day player, once you're wrapped, get out of here. See you later. Before that, it's like, do you need anything to? drink. My faith is in this, that when people see the film, they'll have a moment if they grew up in the area, if they were Cardinal fans, they will go, oh, yeah, he looked kind of like Jack Rock.

That's good. That's not good. That's in him. But, God willing, that won't last long. and they will be subsumed by the story and they'll stop judging whether I'm a good lookalike or a bad lookalike and be more interested in what I'm going to say next.

That's the faith you have to have. And that's why when I met people that knew and I was self-conscious because it's not that good a lookalike. We were totally... Two completely different perspectives, right? your perspective and then mine as the viewer. All right.

Yeah. I thought zero. I know who Jack Buck is, right? I know who Joe Buck is, right? I know, I'm a baseball guy. I played, you know, Division I one college baseball. I mean, I'm a big baseball guy. That thought never crossed my mind.

I was more diving into the, see, right? So I think a lot of people really won't even go there for that. But I just, I just want you to know that it was a masterful performance. You were amazing. and it was on the spot. It was on the spot, man. He crushed it. I can't wait to see the finished film.

I've seen the cut when it was locked, but I haven't seen the finish film. And I'm going to be there for the opening. And God willing, I'll be able to sit back and watch the film and not just stare at myself. I've discovered the first, time I see myself on film, all I can do is go, how did I grow two years older in one year? But the second or third time I see it, I can get lost in the story and lose myself.

And that's when I go, all right, I had some good moments. I had some stinky moments. Live and Learn, Jubilee. Yeah, it was a really good story. You guys told the story really well from what I know about it, obviously. And a different book and then watching it, just the love story in that. well. We alluded to it earlier. You alluded to it. It's just amazing.

My favorite line is, how did you manage to nail her? That was brave to write that. You? You got this gorgeous young woman? What the hell's going on? I think one of the more powerful things is not underestimating people. Because then, you know, and again, this will come out, obviously after the movie is a out, right? So there's no spoil alerts here. But, you know, when you look at certain things that,

you know, his, his wife said in the movie, you know, when he, when he was courting, or he was like, a year, why didn't you, why did it take you a year and never underestimate me like that ever again? Because he just assumed that she would not be interested because of what he looked like and the things that have happened to. And that he had this wall built up. Yep, they did a cagey thing by not canonizing him from the very beginning. He survived. That's the end of the story. No, he had his foibles and he's still growing.

I know John Lulnery. He's still growing and learning. And he's still wrong sometimes. That makes you love him even more. Absolutely. Well, surely amazing film. And again, the whole cast did great. And I can't wait for it to come out and, you know, see it out there on the big screen and everybody else.

be inspired by it. But look, man, you got a lot of things coming up. You're, you know, you're about to get back to work again. I don't know if you're able to talk about it, but I would love for you to share what you can. I got a couple of scenes in the new version of the Running Man, which I have not seen, but I saw some coverage of it. And it's really exciting. And I like my role. I'm here. back in L.A. because there's a series starting called The Land about Cleveland, and it's about the NFL, and I play a team owner. And I'll be doing that until March. Nice role. Beautiful writing. And I've got a couple of other films coming out. One of them's called

Train Dreams, which I saw. It just killed its Tundanced and sold for a whole bunch of money. Netflix bought it and I went to the Toronto Film Festival and I saw it there. And it's a beautiful film. Oh, I can't want to. And I'm really, I just loved doing it. I was really good in it. I thought it needed more of me. And, um...

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with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. I did a film with my daughter. She's one of the stars of it.

It's called Brian. It's a very small indie, a coming-of-age teen story, and it's delightful. She talked me into doing a couple of scenes in it. and it's delightful. I can't wait for that to come out. And a bunch of others.

I did a bunch of indies. I'm still working. I'm still plow away at it. And I, the aforementioned ukulele, I do a gig at this theater called Takah in Basalt, Colorado. I've done two of them. I'm going to do four more. And I invite singer-songwriters from the Roaring Fort Valley.

And I do a set. They do a set. and I am sort of the master of ceremonies. It's sort of a retake of a prairie home companion. And it's scary, brother. It's scary to get up there and sing songs on a ukulele. But I screwed up my courage and I've done it. The first one we got over.

Second one was really good. So now, oh, showbiz. You know, you would think, well, the second one was really good. you're home free. No, it makes the third one even scarier. Hmm. I don't want to do that. We were going to do it every other month, but I got a job,

here I am. So the next one is in January, the middle part of January. And then, depending on my schedule, the next one will be about two months after that. That's great fun. It's great fun. And very casual. and I work with some fabulous musicians.

And I am not a fabulous musician. Turns out I can write really good lyrics, and my tunes are passable, and my ukulele playing is good enough. But they say things like, what key is that in? And I go, I'm so sorry. I have a clue.

I have no idea. How did sound? Watch my fingers and just do it. So they tell me, you know, you did a key change. I go, what's a key? change. I did. The thing that I love hearing is that you've built this amazing career.

And now you, you know, you go and you, and you venture to something completely uncomfortable, you know, playing music in front of people and really diving into the ukulele, it just, it just goes to show that, you know, as human beings, we have to continue to challenge ourselves, stay uncomfortable, and look for growth any way we can. And ultimately, I think it may help your main thing that you do. Oh, totally. It keeps you young, keeps you alive. Yeah, the last couple of years, I have scared the crap out of myself. I want to take a year off. I did a motorcycle trip through Europe with these guys who were in their 20s. I thought I was going to die for 11 days. We started in Rome. Most about that. That's wild. We started in Rome.

I did it with the folks from the Woody Creek Distillery. And they were my age. No, nobody's age. I'm the oldest guy on the set. I'm older than the teensters now. It's daunting. You ain't that old, man. We started in Rome. We went up through the boot of Italy into the Alps. It was breathtaking. And then ended up in Germany for this big liquor show at the whatever their version of the Coliseum is. And then about three months after that, Felicity and both daughters and her brother, Moore Huffman, And a friend, we went to Kenya and rode horses across Lyquipia, which is just above the Maasimara, which is, I mean, all the animals are there, all of them. We saw them all, and we rode horses all the way. It was glamping, I will tell you that. I think they were eight in our party and about 25 people to take care of us, which I thought was about right. And I never fell off. They're all horsey. I'm not horsey.

So I took, I took a lesson for three months before we went. I never fell off the horse. But again, it's crazy. I got home and I said, I'm just going to take a Vicodon and stay in bed for a while now. So when you say all the animals are there, what was the scariest moment, scariest animal that you encountered thinking like, wait a second, you're about 10 feet from me. The scariest animal was the horse between my legs. I didn't know what would happen.

I saw my brother-in-law Moore. These wordhugs, a whole family, mom, dad, and five kids went running out between the legs of his horse. And he had a hot horse. And this horse jumped two feet off the ground. All four legs were off the ground. And Moore was right on it. He never lost his saddle. He was so cool.

He wasn't ever in danger. I would have been in the trees. But we saw five, we weren't on horseback. At night we would take a Jeep and go out, and we had this magnificent Maasai guide who knew where all the animals were. And I finally said, how do you know where the big cats are? And he said, look at the zebra.

I said, yeah. He said, look where they're looking. That's where the big cats are. And so we went and saw four lionesses, two juveniles, big but juvenile, and two older ones, one was clearly the alpha female, and we watched them take down a Cape Buffalo and eat it. That must have been a wild experience to see that. It was.

Half the people in our party couldn't watch, and the other half couldn't look away. It was... You were the latter, weren't you? You couldn't look away, huh? Couldn't look away. It was as violent as anything I've ever seen, but there was... no hatred. There was no animosity. There was no cruelty. It was just life. We saw, we didn't see any crocodiles, but we saw hippos, elephants. We rode with the zebras. It was stunning. It was

stunning. That's crazy. Did you guys see anything from the hippos because they're supposed to be the meanest, aren't they? They are really mean. The Cape Buffalo, the most dangerous, because they got a bad attitude in there can't see. There was a story of one of the guides. This is the third time my wife has done it and her brother. They saw this guide one time. They heard about the guide. The Cape Buffalo attacked the group.

They all ran away. One of the ladies fell off the horse. He jumped off his horse and grabbed this Cape Buffalo by the horns. And it put him in the hospital. broke almost every bone in his body, but it saved this woman. That's, that's brave. That's brave and selfless. Good Lord.

Yes. Yes. Man. And you've had some amazing experiences, you know, just, you think about, you know, working. You think about being married and being a father. But I think truly one of the most, the greatest experiences that you could provide children is these types of things. and creating these moments when you can. Yeah.

Well, I can't take credit for it, but my daughter, Sophia and Georgia, are the finest bras I've ever met. They are fabulous women. Just amazing. I'm so proud of them. They're both in their 20s. They're 18 months apart,

so sort of World War III growing up, but now they're becoming the best of friends. They live about five blocks from each other in New York, and they're successful and just great women. That's amazing. It's funny because I have three children. I have a son who's almost 12, a nine-year-old daughter and a six-year-old daughter.

So those two girls, it is like World War III every flipping morning, William. Oh, my God. Sometimes, man, I'm just like, I'll text my wife because she'll be at, you know, if I get them from school or something where if I take them to school that day and she's already at her pre-meet. My wife's a teacher. She's already gone. I'm like, I don't know what's going on this morning.

Like, I am just trying to stay calm, but it just, I can feel my blood boil at times because you can't stop it. It's like this thunderstorm. It's this hurricane underneath your roof, and in your home, and they're going, oh, it's wild. That phrase, she fights like a girl,

be afraid. Be very afraid. I mean, I see. it every morning. You know, and it's also, too, I don't know what it was like for you got, for your girls when they were, you know, school age and coming home, but I feel like after school is always a dangerous time, always a dangerous time in my house. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It was an adventure though. Yeah. Yeah. You know the other side of it though. You're watching. We were all, we'd be sitting, we tried to have dinner every night and we were successful

with that. would start talking, especially when they were teens, they would start talking. And sometimes I would have to say, I'm here. I'm here. I'm a guy. I'm sitting here. It's wild like that because sometimes you can't control it. Because we do every in the morning, I'm doing the breakfast, you know, and the kids are, all three of them are sitting at the kitchen island. And I'm having my coffee and I'm just talking to them. You know, I'm there with them. And then on the weekends, we do breakfast, lunch and dinner. together and every night we eat dinner as a family. Sometimes, to your point, William, the conversation gets away from the man and the man

does not know how to interject themselves back into the conversation because it just goes back and forth like, hey guys. And because to me, here's what I say. There's a lot of arguments that happen at the dinner table. And I always say to my wife and I look at everybody go, hey, I don't know what's going on, but like, this is sacred time. For me. Like, this is dinner.

This is where we can connect. I want, I don't, hey, listen, you want to tell me something bad that went on, that's fine. But I want to know how you can contribute to make it better. And I also want to know how you help somebody today. I want to talk about some good stuff. But sometimes, man, it can get wild. It can get wild. It's the table.

Pete Gurney, A.R. Gurney wrote a play about it called The Dining Room. And the star of the play is The Table. You go through the generation, a couple of actors play all the parts. All the big movements in life happened around the dining room table. It's a great concept. And it happened with us. And my daughters both said, we grew up with two actors. So it was tough to be a kid there because they said, we'd start telling a story,

and both our parents would go, cut with the chase, honey, you're losing me, you know. Drive for the curtain, drive for the curtain, you know. You know, you mentioned how your daughters, you know, in your words, I think you said the most amazing two broads you've ever met. What about them do you love so much? I'm sure they're both different in their own right. They're completely different, which just flummoxed me. Same cooks, same kitchen, same ingredients, and they could not be more different. What do I love about them?

they're disarmingly straightforward. They look you in the eye when they talk to you. They're kind. They're empathetic. They're smart as whips. They're not spoiled. And they grew up in rarefied air. And they are not spoiled.

As a matter of fact, one of the recurring themes with me and my daughters is, I would say, get us C. It doesn't matter. You don't have to have straight A's. Get a C. I tell them, if I had gotten a C,

my parents would have bought me a car. I said, get a C. It's not that important. And the other thing is with money. I say, spend the money. They're so prudal. They're so worried about their finances. And they work really hard.

They all have jobs. And I say, spend the money. You're a startup company. Go in debt. It's so. Hey, business owners, we know you know the importance of maximizing every dollar. With the Delta Sky Miles Reserve Business American Express card, you can make your expenses work just as hard as you. From afternoon coffee runs to stocking office supplies and even team dinners, you can earn miles on all your business expenses. Plus, you can earn 125,000 bonus miles for a limited time through October 29th.

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Restrictions and fee may apply. Okay. So kind of not what you would. I would expect with two kids that grew up in L.A. With movie stars for parents, they are really down to earth. Yeah, I mean, not just movie, you guys, you and Felicity are both massive movie stars. And to hear that you guys have raised children that are so grounded and so respectful of money and so respectful of everything and even just working hard, it's, you know, like you said,

they grew up in rarity, you know? It's in rare air where they grew up. And you brought up something very, very relatable for me. My son, when he hit the fifth grade and now he's in sixth, he says, I want straight A's. And I'm like, why? And he was waiting for me to finish. Why?

So because I want to be successful. I was like, dude, my GPA out of college was a 2.3. The only reason I graduated LSU is because if I didn't, I couldn't go play. like I couldn't play baseball and you know now again I'm not knocking education by any stretch of what I'm saying but you know

I don't want the North Star to be performance I want the North Star to be the effort well yeah it's going to be what's going to be if it's a 72 so he came home the other day with he was he was pissed off he got an 84 on a Spanish quiz

I was like son I studied with you for four days. Mama helped you. You know, you were doing your flashcards. You were doing your commands. You were doing your greetings. And you got an 84. He's like, I'm mad.

He's like, I'm not mad. He said, Daddy, I'm pissed. I was like, well, see, that's your problem to get through because I'm proud, because I saw you work. And if you earned a solid B, then great. Now your baseline is a solid B. So you give the same effort, maybe next time you get an 86 or an 87. And then you can continue to. improve. I said, but son, I don't need you to get straight A's. I need you have a straight A work ethic,

period, end of the story. That's it. I'm a little more blunt with him. I say, I know a lot of people from Harvard or Yale or Brown or the top-notch schools. I know these people, and they're dumb as a bag of hair. I've never heard that one. Bag of hair. That's pretty good. Bag of hair. And I know a lot of other people that didn't go to college at all, and they're massively, massively successful. I, you know what we push is common sense. Don't lose your common sense. I mean, we know what the answer is so often.

I mean, sometimes we don't. It's a complicated life, but use your common sense. Does it make sense to you? You know, it's funny how we can talk ourselves into some really crazy stuff. It doesn't make sense. I'm with you on that one.

It's been great, man. Thank you. This is so amazing. And just one more question before we wrap up here. But the show is called The Determined Society for a reason. We live on stories of determination, overcoming adversity, and telling stories. What to you is your best definition of determination? I can't remember her name.

Oh, I wish I could. She won an award for writing. I think a big award. maybe it wasn't at the Oscars, but it was a big award. And she wanted to be an actress. And her mother had said to her, follow your dream, follow your dream. And after 15 years of not making it as an actor,

her mother said, find a different dream. And she became a writer. And she's massively successful. So that I get. I say envision it. If you can imagine it, you're a lot farther along. Imagine it.

I'm a big proponent of that. And write it down. You know, make a list of what you want to do. Write it down. Once you know, determination is figure go-around. Don't give up. Get a good night's sleep. Don't despair.

because, and don't worry because I've tried it. It doesn't help. I've worried. It doesn't help. It makes it worse. You've got to get lighter, not heavier. I don't know. Life is tough, man, and it's getting tougher.

There's more and more and more and more of us, and the job mart is really tough. And I'm worried about it. Yeah, I am. I'm too, William. It's our goals. You know, what is a successful life? And I don't know the answer, but that's a good question to ask. Apropos of our film. That is a good. Yeah, exactly. What is a successful life? Well, thank you so much, sir. I mean, it's been an absolute pleasure connecting with you and, you know, getting to have this conversation and talking about the film and all the other

amazing films and shows you have coming up. You know, I'm going to watch them. And, you know, this platform is always here. If you want to talk more about the other. things you're doing. Well, thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Sharon. And for the audience, hey, don't forget, soul on fire coming out, October, William H. Macy,

chronicling John O'Leary's life of being earned 100% of his body as a child. So thank you guys so much for watching, listening. Until next time, stay determined. Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting. and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Or this tea time you.

Or even this tea time you. Said you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rince, it's time to be great.