The Doug Stanhope Podcast - Book By Its Cover (pt2) The Spymaster & The Comedian

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

And now, the conclusion   Help an old gunslinger out… pre-order BRUT by Sam Tallent today https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/787018/brut-by-sam-tallent/    If you're 21 or older, get 30% OFF your first order (plus free gifts and FREE shipping on qualifying orders) @ IndaCloud with code STANHOPE at https://inda.shop/STANHOPE #indacloudpod   Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/STANHOPE & use code STANHOPE to get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup!   Big thanks to our authors: Michael Guillen — The Invisible Everywhere: Believing Is Seeing Terry Conway — Business Is Simple: From a Family Cottage Business to World Processing and Markets Robert Eringer — The Spymaster of Monte Carlo Leslie Lee Sanders — Ready to Listen? A Spiritual Self-Help Memoir Matilda Hernazdez — Beyond the Walls  

His name is doctor. I don't know how to pronounce his last name. It's G-Y-L-L-E-N. But he opens it and calls back that when he was a student, his teacher would call him Michael Gillian questions because I ask so many questions. So I'm going to open with that. And here's the, the doctor, the, doctor, scientist and a documentary. We got joint time. Three minutes. that's joint time hello hi Doug hi how are you Michael oh very very well thank you sir

we're about we're about to go I just want to let you know that I've already front loaded it with all the press you said so you don't have to say all the parts your board are saying I'm not going to you don't have to

people are caught up so we can just get into the fun parts awesome hey so here we go welcome to the program Dr. Mike Michael Gillian questions. You got me.

That's right. You know, my middle school teacher just couldn't stand that I would always ask questions. You know, was that obnoxious kid in the classroom, always raising his hand, and he got to call him Michael Gillian. And, you know, I suppose in retrospect, I should have been intimidated, Doug, but I wasn't. I'm pretty thick-skinned. It was probably all the other kids who didn't really care about an education that just wanted to leave.

Really, stop with the question. We want to smoke cigarettes out in the parking lot. You know, and it's true. When I got to Harvard and I started teaching, actually, when I was teaching at Cornell, I was a grad student, I took that lesson to heart, you know, and I told my kids, look, I'll grade you on homework,

I'll grade you on quizzes and tests and all the rest of it. I'm going to also grade you on the questions you ask. So hit me with the best ones. Give me your best questions. I always feel like there's no such thing as a stupid question, Doug. So that teacher did me a favor, I guess, Well, you must have a different social circle than I have. My people are full of stupid questions.

Except for this guy. This is Chad Shank, my co-host. And it's a pleasure. Who's me, sir. I showed him some highlights. I'll tell you, the link they sent to the documentary kept cutting out on me saying I have unstable internet. So last night, I finally got it to go through.

But I just showed him some clips. and it's, I'll be honest with you. And you did this all on, through AI, on your own personal computer, which is amazing. Because we like to occasionally microdose and about halfway through your presentation, your documentary, I go, I'm going to have a little bit of a mushroom because the imagery is fantastic. He talked to you into mushrooms. Yes, yes. I mean, in this day and age, I think it's not crazy to do. Yeah.

You know, it's funny you say that, Doug, because when my wife first saw it, that's what she said. And I'm like, Laurel. And she said, I can see people, I can see people doing drugs watching this movie. I said, don't say that. Don't say that, you know, but I also remember back in 2001, I'm probably aging myself. But back, you remember that movie 2001 of Space Odyssey? Remember that scene at the end where you're just, quarreling through and there's these psychedelic colors just coming at you wait wait you said do i remember

the movie nobody ever got through to the end did they i did i'm probably the quintessential the one nerd in the universe that did i've actually watched that movie 21 times my manager says he's a cinephile and he said it is the best piece of cinema ever yeah Doug trumbull you know Doug trouble did uh did all the special effects and i was kind of let down uh when i heard him being interviewed about how some of the special effects were done, including that kind of psychedelic scene at the end. And he said, yeah, well, what I did is I took a vat of water, and I took an ink dropper, and I just dropped some ink into the water,

and I had an underwater camera. And as the ink filtered out to the water, it created this kind of nebula. And I'm like, I didn't want to know that. I didn't want to know that. Well, let Doug know that there's a scene with, I believe, an orchestra where he has graphics of the music in different colors and notes coming up.

And I've, I've tripped that hard where I saw laughter come out of a showerhead. So he's spot on. That guy has done some drugs so you know, Michael. Well, you know, when I was a kid, I have to admit, I was a bit of a square ball. You know, all the kids in class were into, you know, what's the latest song? What's the latest car? What's the latest drug? Whatever.

And I was just this, you know, super nerd about just science. Science was my only thing. So I don't know if that's good or bad. It's who I am. You play what you know. Yeah, yeah. It's how I'm wired. I still am.

And I have a Gen Z son. My Gen Z son says, Dad, you're so old. And it's like, okay, gee, thanks for reminding me, you know. But I don't feel old and I am. I am happy being who I am. I love people. I love talking to people of all kinds.

So I'm a happy time. I do, I do remember you from ABC News as a kid, a young man. So, yeah, you've, you've been around for a while. Yeah, I have. You know, a lot of my fans are getting a little long in the tooth, but I have some new fans, too. And, you know, those 14 years at ABC News, Doug, were just an amazing gift. because I got to go to the North Pole, the South Pole. Went to the bottom of the Atlantic where I almost lost my life.

You know, I talk about that in the movie. Which is relevant now. What was the ship that did actually explode that they didn't live? Yeah, the Titan. He went down, if you want to tell him about your trip to where you had your near-death experience, going down to the Titanic in the, the, mirror? Yeah, it was a mirror. Good, yeah. You know, it was in September of 2000, and I, I hadn't told people, but I have a deathly fear of water. I don't even think I mentioned that in

the movie. No. But I think I got that from my mom. She, every time we would go to the beach, because, you know, I was born in East L.A., so we would go typically to Huntington Beach on the weekends, and my mom never, I never saw her in the water. She would go with a dress on, very old-fashioned. She would always sit on the sand, never go into the water. And I think unintentionally, she communicated that fear. So when I got that invitation to go down to a report from the Titanic, to be the first correspondent to report from there, you know, my producers told me, you know, are you going to do it or not? I said, well, I really don't want to do it, but I feel like that's my responsibility. Plus, I was really curious. So I did, and wouldn't you know it, two and a half miles down.

you go down about a mile an hour, so it took us about two and a half hours to get down to the bottom of the Atlantic where the Titanic was. And everything was fine when we were touring the front part of the ship. But when we went to the back part of the ship, we got caught our little three-man sub. I believe that's called the Aft section. Yeah, the after the stern. Yeah, she likes it in the Aft. No, no, I'm just, I'm saying that only to get you back for all the words in your document. that I have no idea what they were.

Revenge is a good thing. You can't cut from quantum entanglement and then say the back of the boat. That's true. Thank you for calling me on. It's the a half part of the ship, sir. Thank you for calling you on that. That's a check mark for me. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, we got caught down there. And I really thought that was it for me. And I had just been married to Laurel. and I was just ready to kiss it goodbye. You say you would just marry to Laurel as though if it were at this part of your relationship, he'd go, fuck it, it's over. He said I was just married and I was ready to kiss it goodbye.

That's fantastic. I didn't catch that in the documentary. You guys are way too fast. Hey, we've all been there, man. We get it. The fear you have of water is the claustrophobia I have. have made it hard to watch you inside of that thing. This thing is like a phone booth with three guys in it.

And they all think they're going to die. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what's interesting is that my diving buddy was Brian Cook. I don't know if he's still alive or not. But he was a comedy writer in Britain. I don't know if you know him, Doug. I don't know how well he know, but it was Brian, Brian Cook.

And it was a weird thing because when we were prepping on the ship before we went down, He said to me, you know, I'm cool with everything that's going to happen. He said, but I don't want to go to the stern of the ship, you know. And I just kind of shrug that off as kind of, okay, whatever. I'm not in charge. He was homophobic. He didn't like it in the back. Yeah.

But Chad, but Chad, here's the thing. So when we got stuck in the back of the ship, the stern, the words came out of Brian's mouth. He says, I told you I didn't want to go to the stern of the ship. And I thought, did this guy have like some kind of premonent? or something like that or was it just a coincidence? That's what I said after you trying to get cardboard boxes on Craigslist once. Yeah. But he said, go ahead.

No, but he, you know, he said that. And I was worried when he did say that, I thought, man, this guy's going to panic on me. And we had been told when we were on the ship prepping for the dive, they told us a story of a guy who was, in a sub in a crisis situation. He panicked. And so he went for the hatch, thinking that, you know, hey, I got to get out of here, not realizing that when you open that hatch, you know, you have all that water pouring in, it'll just slice you in half.

And that was what came into my mind. I was worried Brian was going to pull that on me. I thought Brian was going to go for that. So I actually put one of my legs down on, because you're sitting on your stomach, you're laying on your stomach. I put a foot on the floor ready to gang tackle that sucker. If he went for that hatch, I was going to gang tackle him. So I was more worried about Brian at that point than us being stuck in the propeller. but all well, that ends well.

I have so many notes. So we usually have authors on this segment, and I just glossed over the press that they sent me for you, and I just said, send me a hard copy, which I always have to tell them. And they go, you didn't read it right. This is not a book. This is a documentary. So thank God it's so much more fun to watch 80 minutes of a documentary

than spend three hours reading a book. and you can but it's it's harder to well you save 10 minutes that's pretty fast it takes me more than three hours to read a book chad i'm telling you i'm talking about skim it enough that i can act like i got there yeah there you but you said that your motto uh was always seeing is believing that was you say that was your motto is that was that like like a catchphrase something you'd say at the end of a segment on abc news news or just no because by the time by the time i i'd gotten ABC news i kind of outgrowing that motto it was a you know i i was a weird kid you weren't selling bumper stickers that said

seeing is believing like it was yours yeah well here's the thing he got royalties i was born into a you know working class family my dad was a journeyman carpenter my mom was you know just or stayed at home mom but in the the second grade I fell in love with science and my my family didn't know what to do with me. And so I thought, well, any self-respecting would-be scientist ought to live by some kind of strict motto. And so I thought, hey, seeing is believing. If I can't see it, I'm not going to believe it.

And so I just kind of lived with that. I never kind of set it out loud. I just lived by that. I can't see it. Because at some point in and again, the front loading that movie, you dropped some knowledge that only peers would understand. I'm going, all right, I don't know a lot of what he's talking about right here and backwards aging and I'm lost.

This is when I decide maybe drugs will help. But at some point you said, and this knowledge had me scrambling for a new motto. And where you go, wow, you just learned some life-changing shit and all you're concerned about is your motto? This is how brilliant and vapid is this guy at the same time? Yeah, it's like I'm having this traumatic experience and all I care about is a new motto. I get it. That's pretty funny.

I never thought of it that way, Doug, but I love that. I'm going to keep that in mind. Hey, that's how Nike made millions. Just do it. But it's true. And, you know, I think for me, the big traumatic experience, was when I did teach myself special relativity, and Einstein was saying that there are these hidden worlds,

which I talk about in the movie, the elsewhere, the light comb, beyond the cosmic horizon, and I thought to myself, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I thought science was all about, you know, studying what we can see. And here I got Einstein, Einstein telling me that there are these worlds that I can't see. And so right away my motto scene is believing was on shaky ground, because here's Einstein telling me to believe

in something that I can't see. So, but by the time I got to ABC News, I kind of outgrown. I've had like amoebic dysentery where I couldn't see. I mean, I saw the result, but I couldn't see what was making me create really dirty laundry.

Well, you know what? That's a different kind of not seeing. But that's legit. Maybe in the sequel to my movie, I'll include your experience there, Doug. That's a good one. But anyway, it wasn't until many years later on that I realized, you know, no, I've, you know, really we are surrounded by invisible reality. So what we discovered in science now is that 95, get this, 95% of the observable universe is invisible to us.

And then there's another unobservable universe beyond that that's 100% invisible to us. This is science telling us this. So we are surrounded by invisible realities. And that was a shocker for me. It took me a long time to process that. You said, you used the analogy of a tailor and that this world is, this is when you're talking about the possibility that we are alone in the universe. And you said, maybe this universe is tailor made for us. and I was thinking, wow, this Taylor sucks.

Because like, what do you? I tend to dwell on the negative. So, yeah, I'm like, wow, what Taylor would have just the cliche arguments? Like, all right, who created colon cancer? That Taylor should be fired. Yeah, it's true. You know, it's interesting. I mean, how many hours do we have?

It's an interesting point you bring up. We have about 10 minutes. I've often thought the same thing, Doug. You know, if you think about the universe, think about the Artemis astronauts that just went to the moon. Think they had to be in a spacesuit. They had to be in a spaceship because the universe is out to kill them. I mean, right? You can't just, you know, walk your way to the moon or get in an automobile and drive.

You've got to protect yourself against the universe. And so people die in automobile accidents all the time. It's like the number one killer. So it's not like a genius. genius plot. I'm going to, I'm going to cut to because this is where you better have a sequel, because you go from the, you know, all the, the, the, the, the, the, the spurnal hypothesis and all this stuff that nobody is following. And in one minute at the end, after 76 minutes, you jump cut from, and having learned all that, the Bible is real. Goodbye. Basically, literally in one

minute you go from this knowledge bomb nuclear disaster of untraceable factual information for a guy with a GED. The last bait and switch I saw like that had one of them inflatable fucking guys waving around outside. Like, where's the science in this? Yeah, that's totally legit. It was hard for me, man. You know, I've been on this earth for longer than probably you have.

and it's i had to like reduce my whole journey in life to 80 minutes and it was like okay i'm running out of time here let me just get let me just cut to the chase but yeah you're right i'm and seriously i'm thinking about doing a sequel to kind of fill in that blank because i get exactly what you're saying there's going to be as much science that you drop in you know what yeah a leviticus absolutely plausible i mean as a as a logical person you it makes more sense to this. You're getting older. You just grasp onto anything, even if it's something other people did.

Prison or mortality is what forces people to buy nonsense and swallow it. Regardless of how much Botox you use, you know you're going to fucking die at some point. Yeah. Well, it was interesting. You know, I got a chance to interview Stephen Hawking. I was the first correspondent to do that. And I did a 2020 segment on him. And it was interesting.

We got to fly out to England. And a lot of respect for Stephen. I got to meet and interview his wife and his little boy, Tim. He's not so little anymore. Tiny Jim. I got to interview him as well. Yeah. Yeah, it was.

Tiny Jim. Except the father was the one in the wheelchair, not Tiny Jim. God bless us all. But it was interesting. He said everyone. Sorry. Because, you know, Stephen was a materialist, who was an atheist right to the end. And he compared our lives to that of a computer.

And he basically said, yeah, we're kind of fancy computers. And when the computers die, you know, there's nothing. If you unplug the computer and it's done. And you make that point in the movie. And then you cut to, conversely, that's Stephen Hawking's opinion. But also, here's the opinion of C.S. Lewis, some literary guy, like some no-nothing dunce cap drunk and like all right Stephen Hawking said this but c s lewis i found this quote which totally backs it up yeah and you comparing the two was

a slap in the face to a very very weak jaw of a Stephen Hawking a dead Stephen Hawking is that a calculated move well you know what they're both dead actually does who'd who'd win them right yeah Who'd win in a fight? A tiger or a butterfly? Who do you believe? Well, it's interesting. You know, as I said, I have a lot of respect for Stephen Hawke. And I have a lot of respect for people who believe differently than I do. But I think what I have learned, if I had to summarize what I've learned, is that we are bathed through and through in mystery.

And I think there's plenty of room for disagreement. That's why I call my followers fellow travelers because I have people who follow me who have, you know, they're atheists, they're Muslim, their Hindu, they're Christian, they're none of the above. And it's because I always felt like, and maybe I'm atypical broadminded when it comes to this, because I understand there's plenty of room for disagreement in a world that is so steeped in mystery. So even though, you know, I just, I came to a different conclusion than Stephen did, I still speak very, very, very respectfully of him because I do respect him. I think he was a brilliant man. Let me ask you because this kind of got lost in the movie. When was it that you made, was it an epiphany at some point that brought you to believe in the Bible?

Or did this occur over a gradual course of time? Because it's never really directly addressed in the film. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Yeah, it took about, I would say, 20 years. So from the moment when Laurel, now my wife now. 20 years back or 20, how long have you been a faithful person? I would say, yeah, it's been about 20, maybe 25 years.

But what I was saying is that from the moment that Laurel challenged me to read the Bible, and I really didn't want to read the Bible, I felt that whoever read the Bible hated science. So why should I read the Bible? And she said the words that really changed my life. She says, well, I haven't read it either, but if you read it, I'll read it with you. And it took two years because we looked at it from a very skeptical point of view. We had all these questions about it. There were contradictions in it, things that sounded absolutely ludicrous.

And so we filled a whole spiral notebook with our questions and comments. It took us two years. So it was 20 years from that, Doug, where I just thought this character, Jesus, was speaking in a language that was very familiar to me from quantum mechanics. He was speaking in a translogical way, which is the language of quantum mechanics. I'd never, when I explored Hinduism and Buddhism and all the other religions that I explored up in that moment, I'd never come across a character like this, Jesus. So it caught my attention. But I'm a hardcore intellectual.

So it's not like I fell on my knees and they praise Jesus. I'm a Christian. No, it took me about another 20 years. To fall on your knees and go, yeah, praise Jesus? Well, I never, you know, I'm just, there are a lot of emotional. There's a lot of emotionalism and religion. I'm more of an intellectual. I follow my brain, not so much my emotions, but I didn't have some.

Hang on, you do differentiate between the two and the film. The mind and the brain are two different species. Yeah, yeah. You know what? If I'd had you as a student at Harvard, I think you would be getting a... I think you'd still be atheist. I like that. I like that.

But what I would say is that, Yeah, it took me at least 20 years, and it wasn't just me studying the Bible and trying to debunk it and, you know, talk into scholars about, hey, can we really trust this stuff? There's a lot of things in there that are contradictory, but then there are a lot of things that are contradictory in science. So I've kind of gotten over that. But there were some personal experiences that I had that I think probably drove me to that final conclusion. But, hey, I can't prove that I'm right. Like the only woman who is willing to bang you? I wanted you to read the Bible.

Come on, dude. We're at all guys here. It's a powerful motivator, man. Michael, we do. Sure. We do have to. I believe whatever you say, maybe. We do have to wrap up, but I want to ask you directly,

did you have a motive in making this film that was faith-related? That's a good question. I mean, I wrote a book believing in the scene, telling my story, you know, of how science shattered my atheism and opened my eyes to the existence of God. When I went around speaking, people said, you know, not everybody's going to read your book. Would you consider making it into a movie? And I kind of shelved that idea. But about three years ago, I just sat down and started writing the script.

I thought, okay, well, maybe it's time for me to do that. And then I made this movie by myself here in this room I'm talking to you from. It took me a year, 12-hour days. So I'd really- So she left you? but she fed me but she fed me hey we're going to promote your movie but I believe that last one minute where you just make a flip the switch I think that's fair use I'm going to spoil or alert it

because just like that documentary grizzly man if someone had told me they never show him getting eaten by the grizzly I'm like what's the point? Well Bob I would promote it but every year it says science we just replace it with pussy I got involved in this because I don't think Einstein would have done spots

on what it was in 2020 I think when I think back Doug when I showed some of the early versions to people they said well I don't get well where are you landing I mean you're telling me that your mind was changed and science did this and that to you where did you land and I think maybe

that influenced me in terms of I had to bring this movie to a conclusion but I'm looking forward to doing a sequel where I can fill in some of that. It felt like how I felt at the end of one flew over the cuckoo's nest, where Jack Nicholson, J.P. Murphy, his character comes out and now he's at the very end. The most cogent guy in the room is now flatlined and he's completely retarded. Just like that. Same story.

The whole movie, he's the smartest guy in the room. One minute of a retarded guy and an Indian jumps out of a window. It was a pleasure to have you, sir. Welcome. Any time, I hope to have you back for the, for the part two. I'm watching the sequel, buddy. Put it up, man. Invisible everywhere.

It's Dr. Dr. Michael Gillian questions. Thank you for being here. And all the links will be in the show notes. Have a fantastic day. Have a blessed day. Thank you, Doug. Thank you, Chad. You bet. Right back at you.

That was good one, sir. That was fucking great. That was fun. That was completely worth all the other ones going south. You had a good fucking, well, way more than I did. Like, we waited to bait and switch him to fuck with him at the end, but I started hitting hard at the end, and then you did, and he didn't flinch. Yeah.

You stay with it. I liked it. That's why I was trying to drag it like to. All right. We've roped him in enough. No, no, I didn't. Listen, you'd get a handshake at the end. We drugged you hard.

You didn't hang up. Yeah, that was fun. And Slack was a blessing from God. God, it was the Lord. We just proved his point. Oh, Lord, oh, Lord. Brute. Brute, this is a book.

This is an actual read. Sam Talent, comedian, host of the Chubby Behemoth podcast and author of the best-selling book Running the Light, has graced us with his next book, Brute. Follow a hitman to Paris for one last job. Brute is available now for pre-order.

If you fucking kidding me? Why didn't say I'm just called me? I would have just said, holy shit. I didn't know he had a new book. This is how I have to find out. You have to pay me to find out that he's got a new book. Consult your local bookstore anywhere books are sold. Yeah, get your library.

Jack up your library to get his books, my books. anywhere and jack up your local bookstore if you have one. Brute is available everywhere on September 22nd. Help an old gunslinger out. What is that me? Pre-order Brute by Sam Talent today. Well, it's the fucking Sam Talent is an old gunslinger? He's fucking new.

He's new. All right, yeah, get that book. And go start a podcast and repeat that commercial. Tell everyone, retweet it. Okay. break after this one. So then we have Robert Aaron Jod, the Spymaster.

Oh, good. Spymaster. We want, all right, spy master, call back, bam. Judd? Yeah. Swapsies. Swapsies.

All right, yeah, that's not going to happen. This is going to be a short one. We'll take a big break. The honey Joe. Oh, no. Oh, hang on. We're going. Hello.

What? Terry, can you hear me? Oh, there you are. You just... I can hear you fine, thank you. Hello. Hello, sir. I appreciate you taking the time. I just want to let you know up front that I never received your book and I always do this. I always read the book. It never showed up. So we're going to go. We only have about 10 minutes. So I'm just going to set you up as though I've read it and I'm just going to play along and you can you can give us the bullet points and we're going to push it regardless. Just let your PR people know. It never showed up.

And here we are with Terry Conway and your book is called Business is Simple. Tell us tell us the cliff notes of your life because it was a fascinating book. Well, it was a 55-year career, very adventurous. I'd say. I ended up owning my own company, 44, after the last 44 years, very, very chaotic, developed, had developed some rules of thumb, how to get through chaos in this career. Basically, it came down to businesses quite simple. There's just three things you have to focus on.

One is developing, continue to develop your superior products. Right. Then process them at a competitive advantage. Absolutely. And then develop marketing to generate leads so salespeople can close the deal. This is like right out of the handbook. of the Wrigley Gum founder, I forget his name, but Wrigley Field is, yes, the rig, this sounds just like,

now you say there's three rules, but it wasn't all that easy for you, was it? Well, I had a structure, so the structure really got me through the chaos. But there was some down times, and I'd like you to focus on a few of those, because there was, I wouldn't call them tragedies necessarily, but some were. Okay, well, first of all, when I bought this company, it was a big risk.

It was a nature-related business. I had been the CFO for a sizable company for the prior 10 years. But I broke the piggy bank and bought this little company and immediately had to be reinvented. Crabbs. Because it was crabs. It was a one telephone company, one telephone line. on one product, so forth.

I have a very good product. It was Oceanside, California. It was a motel six or a super six. But yeah, I've caught them too, and it's agony just to know that you're crawling with the things. But anyway, that's not the focus of the book. No, the focus of the real book is having to reinvent the company a second time to take everything overseas without knowing.

anyone, no contacts, just take the whole business and move it overseas. Yeah. Ended up operating in six different countries. Introduced a couple more product lines. And then in the book, you talk about how you display so many jobs in the U.S. by exporting work over across into other countries and the guilt that you still feel? Well, we didn't actually displace anyone. Oh, it was just you. That's right.

Confusing parts of the book. That's all right. So our supply of crabs, soft crabs, disappeared in the Chesapeake Bay, and we were forced to reinvent the company and go overseas. Right. We had no supply. We lost 90% of our supply.

And you were on a steamship. going across from what I remember is that how you got or is it a crabber trawler no uh no i had i had to to start the reinvention of the company i i have a fear of ocean travel so i might have glossed over a lot of the transatlantic or pacific part of the book but it was one of the outstanding parts to me Well, I had to start from nothing. Total scratch. One minor contact. But I had a good brand.

Good reputation. Was in Greece? Portugal? Was it? Lisbon? No. This was in Bangkok. What?

Bangkok, Thailand. Oh, yeah. Bangkok, Thailand. Yeah, okay. And so we got a... I was in Greece when I read it. That's why I'm confusing it. That's all right. Can you catch crabs in Thailand?

Pardon me? Can you catch crabs in Thailand like you can't Baltimore? Are they like a lobster crab? Are they there? Yes. It's the same kind of swimming crab that we have in the Chesapeake Bay. Okay, great. A little different species, but the taste is the same and they look look alike. But I bet they're cheaper in Thailand. Well, yes, but they're certainly more plentiful. Gentlemen like us, we have to be limited budget. You've got to catch a discount. Well, you have to operate at a competitive advantage.

I'll say that. That's one of the three golden rules here. Yeah. And that was one way to do it. First of all, we had the supply. And yes, they were a little less expensive. But the quality was the same. That's important.

We have a brand that we had to protect. So to set up all these operations, it took a little doing and some time. And how long were you over there in Bangkok? It was a total about 15 years. All right. That's what I remember right. Yeah, 15 years. I was going trips for four or five weeks at a time, set up new plants,

introduce new products, come home. recuperate a little bit, go back. So I did about 32 trips in total over that time. I bet you have a lot of frequent flyer miles. I was, uh, it helped me with upgrades. I'll put it that way. All right. Well, I'm just doing the math now, Terry.

You said 44 years and 44 years. And according to me, that makes you 88 years old. Well, I'm actually 86. Sorry, young 86. Well, you're 86 from this podcast for being too gorgeous. I'm a ride balled comedy is kind of my brand. So I was kind of got the reputation of being the Indiana Jones of the crab business because crabs don't live where near five-star hotels.

They live in the mangrove forest. You're the Indiana Jones. Dicey. Buck the grottes. fisherman right well looking for supply what what is the name of your crab company are you in the safe way frozen goods or where do i go to eat your crabs it's called handy seafood handy seafood that's right it was in the book forgot it was in the book that i read yeah i don't think i actually I don't think the publicist actually asked me to send there a book,

but I will be glad to do that. Oh, no, no. That would be wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, no, it was the PR person. It was the PR department. And you know what? They keep blanketing me with these requests of people I've already interviewed.

I don't know who these publicists are, but I hope they watch this interview and go, hey, get on the ball, publicist. This is a man with a story to tell that I'm interviewing, I had a fun time with you. I would have had more fun if they'd actually gotten me a book. And so you were never attacked by a horse? Never what? Attacked by a horse.

I was just having to read things into what your story might be. Like perhaps he's in the crab business. That's all I knew was crabs. Oh, horse. No, not. Indiana Jones ran into. Indiana Jones ran the scorpions in the luggage. Snakes come out at night and warm themselves on the sidewalks because it's warm.

Chickens in the hallway. That was very common in the hotels. The boat of horse never bit your ankles. Yeah, you were never attacked by a mule and that gave you brain damage, but you still had to go through and sell grabs. I had all sorts of fantasies of what your life must have been like, but I'll read the book and see if I was accurate on any of them. Yeah.

It was a pleasure talking to you, sir. I'm not going to take up any more of your time because you don't have a lot. No. My God. That's one of my one, two comedy punches. So do we speak again or what's the story? I'm going to get the book and then we're going to reschedule you one of, we do our next block of,

we call it a book by its cover. We haven't even seen the cover of your book. But when we get the book and our next round, we'll reschedule it and have a lot less fun with it. It was a pleasure talking to you, sir. There's 31 really fun. What's that?

31 really fun stories in the book. All right. All right. Nice talking to you. Thank you. I'm looking forward to reading everyone. Kill it. Okay.

Bye. Bye. Oh, geez. That was hard. That was hard to do. What the fuck was that? Oh, my God. I almost gave him your phone number.

I almost just screamed it out, shrieked it out. I almost gave him my phone number. I know you did. You pervert? I told Stan over the day. The other day, I'm sitting there. My phone is bummed. What's that noise?

It's fucking. My phone's buzzing. it's Judith. Remember it was plugged? Oh yeah. I had to call Judith from my phone. I have a... You're jerking.

Call her up right now. Right this... Hold on. Hold on. Oh, it's right. Dr. Judy. You called me a couple of hours ago. I was with clients. So I was not able to answer the call.

Leave me a text message on how I can help you. I am assuming. Now you're trying to get back to work with Hoffman and that is what I help with a lot of the time, okay? And so I am available and you can give me more of your information. I've got the phone number. I need your full name as it is on your badge and I need your date of birth. And go ahead and give me the phone number again and then I will call you and I will tell you how the whole process works. so we can work together

and I can get you back to work and so take care and thank you so much for your call when you called her she put your name Mr. Shank on her phone and she accidentally swiped the wrong M I fucking have not felt like I was in trouble by the principal

more than fucking looking over from my fucking easy chair recliner her to my phone on the charger buzzing saying Judith and I'm like, ah, I'm busted. I don't know what to do. I know. Judith is calling me. She's discovered the entire ruse and I'm the only contact there is.

Burn it all down. I was like, oh, Judith. But does she know what's going on? Judith is a lunatic who thinks that my phone call to her from six months ago was last week. That's only the idea. But does she know what's going on or does she think you want help? No, no, I think she thinks something else. No, she doesn't know I'm related to this.

Okay. So that's the police finger. Okay. Well, let's get you help from Judith. Oh my gosh, Judith. We did have Danielle Frank next, but she's canceled. Tell her we still want to talk to her. You know she's drunk.

Arangier at in. Who's a spy master? What is the five master? I don't know this one at all. Fall is busy. When you're ready to clock out, do it with IndyCloud. Indicloud has everything you need to unwind this season. Everything.

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dot CO code stanhope for 30% off your subscription ships regularly and discreetly with free gifts and free shipping on qualified orders don't forget when the order fill up the quick survey to support the show hey robert hello duck how you doing fantastic I've been looking forward to talking to you well I've been looking forward to talking to you since I saw a YouTube that you did because I didn't realize it's the Doug Stanhope in Bisbee. Are you in Bisbee right now? I am in Bisbee. Here's the truth of the matter is somehow I got put on some PR people's podcast list.

So I'm getting just endless spam, but PR people going interview opportunity. So I go, let's take a day and just interview. all these authors that fuck with them, which it's turned out to be actually talking to some great people, even if they're really boring self-help books. But this is the only book that I go, okay, if one good thing came out of this,

is an actual good book that I want to read. I'm in the middle of it. I'm at page 88. And, well, that's the first. All the other podcasters I've been talking to just read the PR release, nothing else. Yeah, no, this is great. and let me tell you a quick story to set this up.

Late 90s, for three years I dated this gal from L.A. actress. And at one point, we're kind of off again, off again, off period. And she went over to the con film festival. And her ex, she ran into her ex over there. And it was one of those things where I was a young, jealous man. And I go, yeah, so you saw him? Did you fuck him? And she goes, no.

And I went, all right. She goes, I just blew him. I'm like, sorry, you didn't have to tell me that part. You're going to just said no and lied to me. And do you know who that gentleman was? Prince Albert of Monaco. That's her ex-boyfriend. Well, everyone's an ex of his.

So cut to I write my first book. I'm trying to tell this story. And as you know, the hardest part of writing a book might be the lawyers who try to strip for my book, for your book, we'll get to you in a second. But I try to tell that story in my book and they say you can't. Albert's very litigious. He's won lawsuits against the son in London for stories he's already admitted to. He's crazy.

So I said, I'll write it like this. I can't tell you his name, but I'll tell you what he does for a living. He's a prince of Monaco. I go, not even that. We can't even let you print that. It's a pleasure to have you on. Excuse my diary. Thank you.

Feel welcome to tell that story when we go when we're taping. We are taping. We're always taping. We're always taping. Good. Excellent. It's part of it. Yeah, well, he's been blown a lot.

I know. I mean, he just one of many. And not just females. I'm sorry to say, but that's a whole other story. Where are you right now? I am in Montecito where Prince Harry and Megan reside. All right.

Why does he still go by Prince Henry if he's like extricized himself from the royal family? Don't call me Prince anymore. It's kind of like Prince when he was a symbol. Well, he doesn't get to be a Duke anymore, but I guess he just wanted to keep that Prince thing so hopefully he could extend it to his kids one day.

And that's a little iffy right now, given the rancor that is felt in London about him. I would much rather be at a bar in Montecito with you having cocktails. I'd rather be, what was it? What did you have for breakfast today and where? Or lunch. You get the stock exchange saloon with you.

Ah, look at the place is great. I don't know if this is OCD on your part, Robert. I don't know if this is OCD. the, he, every meal he eats with someone, he tells you the name of the place and what he had, I had a lobster in this with the thing at the place and you have the name of the place. You're, the logs you have. I think you mentioned it in the book. You have just from one, you had 20 leather bound, a lot where you took a copious.

They're right behind me in this bookshelf, 20 leather bound journals. I wrote down every phone call, every meeting, every piece of intelligence that came in, went in one of those journals. Because I didn't want later on to be sued as you were concerned about for defamation because, you know, if you've got the evidence, you got the memory, but you got things written down when it happened, the best defense for defamation is the absolute truth. unless you've defamed the person where I have been sued and

hang on hey we're about to talk to I'm filming this intro in the middle of the interview we're about to talk to Robert Arringer who's written a spy master of Monte Carlo I'm just realizing that that would without setting it up this doesn't make sense this guy set up basically this first intelligence service for

Monaco, which is a principality look it up. I had the same problem with Singapore. Was it a fucking country? I don't get it. Yes. He's set it up. He's got a brilliant book I'm in the middle of so I came tearing out of the gate. I read this part and I want answers to this. Let's

join that interview. Now in progress. All right. They'll cut around it. Okay. Where were we? You were talking about having 20 leather bound journals and your predilection for writing every single meal you had and rating it and the place and then going right back into absolute thrilling of the subterfuge of intelligence.

Well, you know, the most dangerous thing about intelligence in espionage is all the rich food that you eat and all the booze that you drink. So, of course, I had to keep track of that. Were you more likely of getting a poisoned by Putin or gout? Oh, yeah, no, I was more worried about my arteries, heart, liver, kidneys, especially the amount of booze that intelligence people drink. That's a bunch of cyclical. One or two in the morning, most nights. I was liaising constantly with representatives of 20 different intelligence agencies, including the CIA and the British MI6. And I had to entertain all these people who love coming to Monaco at government expense and meeting a real prince.

So we'd go out and they wouldn't want to just have dinner. They'd want dessert and after dinner drinks and after dinner, after after drinks. So, yeah, it's your heart and liver you got to worry about in the espionage business. So now Prince Albert, who is about to become king when his father's like his father, they're putting a mirror under his nose waiting until Albert is king. So he's working for Albert. They're setting up the first. There's CIA, because there's lots of dirty money going on down there in Monaco and, you know, money laundering. So he's trying to clean it up.

But Prince Albert's like little Lord Fauntleroy. And he's like, I'm going to go out and stick my cock in some lady's mouth. You do the thing with the business. Go ahead. Well, no, no, you got it. You grasp it. That was the problem. He was more interested in his next date than he was in affairs of state.

and I'd be briefing him about all kinds of interesting things that he needed to know about his principality, as you say, money laundering, especially, and corruption. And he'd be daydreaming about whatever female he was going to meet that evening. And then he'd fall asleep after that. Your girlfriend. I don't think he remembered her while she was blowing him. It was a constant problem, getting him A to pay attention and B to do anything about it. But he thought that he needed an intelligence service because he wasn't being very well informed.

I guess even his father didn't trust him to run the principality because he certainly didn't groom him properly for the job. And France didn't do anything about trying to brief him on anybody he was going to meet in all of the foreign travels that he did and all of the foreign leaders that he met. He was kept in the dark, which is why he needed me, somebody like me anyway, to keep him in force. He was particularly interested in the Russian surge into the principality, as he should have been. Not that he ever did anything much about it. Yeah, yeah. It's probably worse than ever now. But I'm trying to not spoil or alert just to the halfway point because at some point, you're like, wait, like this guy's trying to.

He pretended to be interested. Wait, can I not read the book, sir. It's my co-host, Chad. I apologize, sir, for putting in. I've not read the book, but I'm going to. But I'm curious is, does it talk? about how you got to this position because I'm super intrigued into not only the story, but the story of you.

Yeah, no, you know, if I could explain it in a phrase, it would be calculated serendipity. That's my life. That's how I describe my life. So I love it. Meaning I sort of knew where I wanted to go, but it was all happenstance along the way. In fact, during the 1990s, I worked undercover for FBI counterintelligence. And that, and before that, I worked in private sector intelligence with Claire George, who had been deputy director of operations for the CIA, and a legendary deputy director. I, you're Claire George.

I believe it's Claire George. There's one other that's close to you. But you later in life had initials. It was basically the same way I have the catchphrase, like, you. It's all good as long as you wake up with a story. You were only going to take work if there was a laugh quotient. Well, that was how we, Claire George and I got into business. I wanted him to write a book because I was a literary agent at the time.

Before that, I was an investigative journalist. But I wanted him to write a book, and he played along with me because he was curious. But it was clear after a while he would never write a book because any kind of self-promotion was anathimate to him. So we're finally sitting outside the Chevy Chase Club looking at this beautiful golf course, and he fesses up and says, you know, I'm not going to, I'm really, I'm not going to write a book. Maybe there's something else we can do together. And I said, yeah, like what?

He said, well, we can help people solve problems. And that's how I got into the creative problem resolution business. And I piped up and said, yeah, but only if they're billionaires or royalty. And he agreed. And lo and behold, within a couple of months, we had exactly that kind of. of client, a couple of them actually. But I also said, we have to, we could only do things if they take a job if it has a high LQ. He said, what's that? And I said, well, it's a laugh quotient. And our motto became, if it ain't funny, we're not interested.

Exactly. It's only funny if you do it. That's the one I'm looking for. That's mine. It's only funny if you actually do it. And it turned out that all our work was hilarious. So, I mean, it worked out really well. And then it led to the FBI. gig and that was pretty funny too a little dangerous because I had to operate undercover in Moscow and Havana and it evolved into several different missions before that happened I had lived in Monaco for a couple of years and I'd gotten to know Prince Albert and kept in touch with him because I would visit in fact my one of my clients was was in the Monaco area so I'd be visiting regularly I'd see Albert once in a while and he knew I'd

I explained that I'm now in the intelligence business, solving people's problems. And then at the end of the 90s, he had a problem that he wanted me to solve. He wanted me to look into a very wealthy Russian resident of Monica who wanted to invest in Monica's football team. And I said, yes, sir, I can help you with that. And within a couple weeks, we delivered the goods, pointed out how dirty the guy was. And it was our first success, because Albert did not allow him to invest in Monica. Coast football team. I then suggested to him if you're so concerned about the Russians moving in,

as they had along the Cote de Sierra, the south of France, that I should next commission a study for him through all my various intelligence sources on what the Russians had in mind for Monaco. And he liked that idea, and we did that, and a damn good report that we got for some great sources. And it was scary for him, and he decided to retain me in June 2002 to be his full-time intelligence advisor. And it was only after his father, Prince Rennier, passed in April 2005, that I could then expand what I was doing and actually create a small intelligence service. By that time, I had already engaged the CIA and MI6 to help us. And they did. And we benefited greatly because I'm working on a small budget.

Prince Auburts paying me out of his pocket. The whole idea was it doesn't officially exist, which is the way all intelligence services should be. Right. It should not officially exist. So meant to be invisible. He understood that. And he paid for his service, for my service, and the one I created out of his own pocket. And I reported directly to him.

What was it like living on minimum wage? And that was a sad thing because I wanted to build a stellar service on a minuscule budget. I spent wisely and paid myself a pittance. Mr. George's side, who do you ask for advice? Like, all right, the Prince of Monaco wants me to start his own personal CIA. What should I charge him? What are other people charging to start an intelligence service? Like, where do you come up with a number?

I just, you know, I pulled one out of my hat. It's like we started, I believe it was 60,000 euros a quarter, you know, something about $70,000. That should have been my salary, but I spent most of that flight around trying to build up an intelligence service. My first flight was to Washington, D.C., to engage to the CIA and to MI6, because I knew their station chiefs there, and bring them on board. Why? It's very expensive to collect intelligence. But if you can get it free from the CIA and the MI6, that's a damn good deal. Right.

And you see, before long, I had these guys coming over from Washington and London to brief Albert and me on whatever it is we wanted to know about. Albert couldn't think of anything, of course. But I had plenty of things I wanted to know about, most to do with Monaco. And they'd come over. They thought it was a good deal. They get paid to come to Monaco, one of the most glamorous places. on the planet and hang out for a few days, meet a real prince, brief him.

You say the most glamorous place, I don't want to interrupt you, but I was thinking this whole time I'm reading, is there like Vegas is now overpriced to the point they're scaring people away, but there's still deals. Is there a poor person's part of Monaco that you can get? I would love to go to Monaco, but I'm not spending those kind of. Yeah, it's the district that they created on land reclaimed from the see called Fombier, where they tried to push all the monogasks to. They're outnumbered in their country, by the way, by about six to one. It's only about seven or eight thousand monogasks. And the rest of the population up to 40,000 now is split up between 100 different nationalities. And you're talking

about a country the size of Central Park, a mile and a half square. You were talking about Singapore earlier. Well, there's only one country in the world smaller than Monaco. And that's the Vatican. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but the answer is when I first got to Monaco in the 80s, you could actually do Monaco. Is it smaller than Gibraltar? Well, yeah, no, Gibraltar must be bigger because Monaco is the second smallest and Vatican is the first smallest. Yeah. But yes, you could.

You could actually, back then in the late 1980s, I'm not sure what it's like now. I can't go back. I won't go back because if I did, they probably hang me for my ankles. Yeah, I'm reading this for real. Don't spoil or alert me. Don't go back. So go on. Next question.

All right. I get a few that as we go, have you, I've been too drunk to be on stage. Have you ever been too drunk to spy? No. What I found was trying to keep my cover, especially in the days when I was undercover for the FBI. The more I drank, the more I believed my legend, my, my, my bullshit. Yes. Yeah. I just, you know, I became that person. You have to. When you're doing undercover, solid side of things. You're like you're an actor. And if you don't, if you don't believe what you're saying and the role that you're playing,

how can you expect your audience to believe you? So if I'm in Moscow rusing the former chairman of the KGB, as I was, or the guy from the CIA who, the only guy from the CIA whoever successfully defected to the Soviet Union in 1985, I'm fooling them. I better be fooling myself as well. What's the last job since, oh, sorry, did you cut out? His lips are still moving. I'm here. Okay. What, what, that's not in the book.

What's the last job you've had that was had an LQ? Oh, I think every day's funny. Right now I write on Substack and I do a satirical news column, making fun of absolutely everybody. So, yes, the ALQ is still very important to me. Excellent. That leads into my question is, at this point, I would read anything you wrote, sir. And do you have any audiobooks, though? Have you ventured into reading your own audiobooks? No, I mean, they haven't even been able to sell enough of the printed ones, so I'm not sure anybody's ever gotten into the audio ones. And I've got a number of books I've written. I write novels, too.

I like to write. What's your website? What do we got? It'll be in the show notes. It's right here. Go ahead. Yeah, there's a novel I'd recommend. If you like short novels, as I like writing them, and you like road novels, there's

one I wrote in 2000. It was published 2016 called Motional Blur. Motional Blur. And that's a fun little novel. But I did write a book also about my FBI experiences, and that was called Ruse. undercover with FBI counterintelligence. That was published in 2008 by Potomac book. All right, clear something up for me.

You talk about being a literary agent for real, but you also posed as one for the FBI to try to get people like XKGB to, oh, we want to write a book about you. Oh, me? I'll tell you everything. Yeah, exploit people's English. Exactly. On the basis that everybody wants to write a book. So it's the best ruse going.

And since I knew a lot about book public, I created what I called the book model. And the book model is we catch fugitives by getting him to write books and then getting him where we want them and capturing them. I know, he's fucking great. You're going to love this book. I really, I can't. Even on the off chance that everything you've said is complete and utter bullshit, sir,

I still love you no matter what. Either way. Yes. If it's true or not, I love it. Oddly, oddly it all is. It's impossible for me to exaggerate because it's all really like that. I don't embellish. Oh, wonderful. Would you like to hear about the time I infiltrated the Ku Klux claim? Yeah, well, hang on, let me just, I warn you, you know what, can we, can we, uh, can I don't think the next question matters. I was going to say we can bail out of the last two. They're not going to want to. Ah, no.

What? All right. Can we do more segments with you on another day, sir? You name it. I'm there. How about in 45 minutes? 45 minutes is fine. Seriously?

Do you know how to set that up? I will click the thing. Actually, yeah, if there's a four clock, right? Get them on the calendar. Yeah, I get to do two more. And again, these are people that have no idea. they're talking to and we're just they're basically

prank calls but you are the fucking real deal so I'll click that I'll click in at 4 o'clock is that it all right yes she says awesome for a new link sir and we'll see you then okay all right yeah thanks

man you ain't shit dude oh my holy cow this guy's great all right Oh, wait, we didn't have to leave that quick. Oh, well, I got a few. I can go eight minutes to figure out what we do with the next two.

Here, go ahead. Yes, yes. Hello, Leslie. Hello. I've, just so you know, I've already pre-read all the audience, all of the promo. You don't have to go over all the boring things you've said a million times. They know it so we can cut right into the interview. Here we are with.

Leslie Lee Sanders, there is another Leslie Sanders out there. Does that make you crazy? That makes me kind of cringe. When I was looking you up, like, all right, it's got to be. I have a comedian friend Jeff Tate, where also the lead singer of Queens-Rike's major rock and roll band has the same GE-O-F spelling. and so he'll call into a radio station and they'll think it's him and he's like no sorry sorry to disappoint you thanks for being on thank you for having me it's exciting to be here well uh i don't know i i have notes uh but you're just like

i've written three books which were the like the most arduous things i've ever done in my life you are at 30 books and counten 30 plus and in every genre yeah the horror uh what do they they call it a dystopian i call it steampunk dystopian future romance erotica did you wait till like you were a certain age to write erotica because i think a young woman can't write erotica Yeah, I was an adult when I wrote that, but it was around the time where it was really popular, you know, like the 50, 50 shades of gray. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But with the stories, though, I make sure that I try to, what I have to say, usually what I'm trying to express, I find the right genres that will, you know, support that. Right.

So that's kind of why I like to genre hop a lot. Okay. And I just love stories in general, so, yeah. And I guess, like, if you can pick the mood, the headspace you're in where you go, you know, like I'm in a dark period in my life. Let's write some murder shit. Excuse me, right. Oh, by the way, this is my wife, Bingo. Hello.

I did not. Hello. And, yeah, it's a, it's a pleasure to have you on. We, uh, let's just knock it out. I, we always have a question, uh, uh,

like what's your biggest, what's your go-to distraction when you're trying to, you know you should be writing, but you're putting it off. So, and we were just talking about, yes, we were.

I'm, my personal hygiene is awful. So I, I'm like a shower guy. She's a bath girl. I'm always bath. I go, I go, she's, you're a bubble bath girl.

Oh, I said. I, I, yes? Am I right? Yes, that is correct. Okay, you know.

You know it. After 30 books, you can't just take a bath. She's written a book herself, so we both know what, you. And Aquarius? Yep. I know. How do you know that, people? I know it.

How did you know that? Because we have this back and forth all the time. Yeah. usual. Anyway, so, so what, what, what, like the forward thinking, the unusual, the quirky, the little weird. Yeah, that's, that's Aquarius and that's me. That's how I would describe myself. You, and I love this because, and I'm a man who's done many, many drugs, and I've never had a drug that I enjoyed doing more than a lucid dream. And you were big into dreams and it was a, dream that led you to write this book? Correct. Yes. See, the thing is with symbolism, I'm big on

symbolism because I'm a storyteller. So I take in symbols and that's how I get a lot of my messages. So I also do tarot readings where I look at the cards and I can, you know, interpret the messages in the images and the symbols and the numbers and the colors. And it kind of helps me connect with my intuition, and then that's kind of how I even do dream interpretation, because when you dream, mostly what's going on is symbolic. And so if you could, like, read the symbols, then you can understand what the message is trying to tell you within the dream. And that's exactly where it let me to write ready to listen. Intuition is, uh, like intuition is my God. I sometimes say, You got to, and a lot of this book is about just that.

Following your intuition versus listening to fear or self-doubt, et cetera. And it's really, like, because we do this, just this small segment, 10 minutes that we put into the podcast. We're just starting it because so often we find ourselves talking about different books. Let's just do that as a standalone and then put it in. And so this was in the first round where I'm going, I don't know if my audience is necessarily the audience for this book, but my intuition said, yeah, this, let's do this podcast because, yeah, there's a lot of stuff in there that, yeah, just because my audience are a bunch of filthy ingrates,

they still have souls and they have doubt and they have fear and they need direction. And you've faced a lot. And this is your first nonfiction. That's correct. Yes. Was there a different feeling in writing this than the other ones? A little bit, no. I would say no because it still felt like me expressing myself in a way,

which is kind of the whole point of the book, Ready to Listen is about ready to listen to what's around you in the universe that is trying to guide you down a path to your power. I want to remind people, especially women who felt like dismissed or silence or powerless, that they have the power to make change in their life if they just listen to, like, for instance, their bodies, listen to their mind, listen to themselves. Like when I take my bubble baths, I'm connecting with myself and self-reflecting so I could know how to move through my whatever issues I may have at the time. So I think a lot of people could relate to that. I know your audience may not be the audience for this book, but I'm telling you,

if you're seeking more power within yourself to change anything within your life, your neighborhood, your community, your country, the world, it begins with self-reflection, taking off the mask so you know who you are, and that's where you begin to make change, positive change. that's fantastic yeah i i don't think uh there was a minute where i thought yeah maybe this is but no i think there's definitely a market with my audience for this and you you are you ready to listen

yes i'm our i have uh oh after the fall is like that after the fall is a book how how old uh How long ago did you put that out? I think it was around the 2020 maybe. Yeah. It's, I said it's like brokeback mountain meets 28 days later. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. It is, it is a gay romance. So it features two gay men who find themselves in Refuge Inc., which is a post-apocalyptic facility where they, you know, connect, but all. also try to save a lot of the people in the underground from the revolution.

Yes. How do you write from the perspective of a gay white man? I mean, at the end of the day, we're human, right? We all have the same. That's a good point now. Yeah. I mean, but we just tap into the human part. You know, the human person.

Well, speaking about tapping into the human part. That's what gave in to. How do you know? Exactly. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. I know that you live in Arizona.

I'm assuming you're probably outskirts of Phoenix like everyone else. We're down in Bisbee. I don't know if you've ever been down here. No, not yet. But yeah, I'm in Mesa right now. Okay. I lived in Mesa at Southern and Dobson when I was a young comic starting out. Yeah.

It was a shifting neighborhood then. Now it's downright horrible, I heard. Ooh. I mean, you know, everywhere you go it has as good and bad. But I did want to say something real quick. I saw one of your shows on YouTube, the one, yeah, the comedy stand up where you were talking about meth addicts and self-awareness. And that was really it. Like me and my husband laughed so hard.

I remember when I told him I was coming on his show, he said, okay, you better be prepared because he might have some jokes for you. You know, I'm prepared. I am absolutely the most white man you'll ever meet in real life. Well, my husband's a white man too, so maybe that's how I could tune into the white male audience. My husband is white too, so. So that's, so his, all his gay fantasies where they, that's what she's saying is. All of her husband's gay fantasies are highlighted in after the fall, which is available on your website, which is LL Sanders.

Yes. There you go. Not Leslie, like that other asshole that's on Walsall Sanders. Yes, LL Sanders.com, that's right. Well, yeah, it's not all yelling about tweakers. Sometimes I find my feminine side. When I stopped following the rules and I started hearing the truth, as a child, you were taught to stay quiet and speak when spoken to,

don't interrupt and don't talk back. Now, can you explain to my wife why that's important? You know, that's important. Because a lot of women. trouble now. A lot of women want that voice and I want to be the one to encourage them

to have that voice. It's important, yes. I love you. I smoke there's so much pot in here that the last of my black lung is kicking out on me. I'm sorry that these interviews are so short.

We just started doing these I'm really happy to have you with me. I've not read the full thing. In church, I heard, it was just opened to a page. I heard, sit still and be quiet. This seems to be a theme. In school, they tell me,

only speak when spoken to. That's weird. I just opened to this page random. Yeah, that's synchronicity. That's what I would call that. Yeah. Does this ever, when you do interviews like this, over 30 books,

Does that instincts kick in where I'm on a podcast, but I shouldn't say anything at all? No, actually, honestly, I was, I'm an introvert. I keep to myself, I don't have many friends, and that's by choice. I used to just fear the public, you know, speaking out in public, defending myself, public speaking. And it was only recently when writing this book, I was like, you know, I need to get over that fear. I need to do what I need to do. Get out there. And it's important that I share this message with everyone.

That's why I'm here. So you're doing a damn good job, girl. I love it. And there's a reason you're on the podcast. And I think that will make itself known. Right. Yeah. Thanks. And we will have, the

book is called Ready to Listen by by Leslie Lee Sanders. And all the links and show notes will be in the show notes where to We'll be in the show notes where to find it. And, yeah, pick it up. Or if it's not applicable to you, you know someone that needs to read this. So get it.

And thank you and send my best to Doug. While you pay, Jim. Good job, you. Yes, thank you for having me. It sounds like a party over there. I wish I was it always is. I want to know what you're drinking. What is that?

This is a vodka soda. Margarito. here. But yes, thank you for having me. I mean, it's fun. I have fun.

Excellent. Thank you very much. I liked her. This one's going to be the difficult one. That was very boring and unfunny. For the whole first three-fourths until she said she knew it. And then when you fucking...

Yeah. I loved her. What's the last one? That's the beyond the walls. Which one is? What is this? Well. I think we thought

Rolled Erringer again. Yeah, yeah. Okay. We're looking forward to that. You're a better. You're a Robert. Wait, what do we got? A long time on that last one.

Long man. I know. I know. I know. Okay, piss, honey. And then you got Robert again. You got Robert. He was awesome, but he's all yours.

He's too smart. I know, but he's too smart for me. He's too smart for me. He's too smart for me. He's too smart for me. I know. Ket. How are you?

How are you, Matilda? Good, good love. Matilda. Matilde. Matilde. Matilde. Yomenican Republic. I just want you to know I've already front-loaded all your press so everyone knows

what we're doing so you don't have to say the boring shit again. I like your attitude. Listen, I'm on this other side. of this enough where I go, I don't want to, hey, tell us about your book. They know the basics of the book. So we'll just cut to the fun part. And with that, Matilde. How are you?

Welcome to a book by its cover is this segment where just starting to put as a standalone in our podcast. This is my wife, Bingo. Hello. Hello. Bingo. Hello. I'll tell you, I'll tell you this.

You did not. I'm a pen and paper guy. So I'm transcribing all of the interviews for today while I'm reading on a Google Doc. And as I'm at the very end, they're typing in, beyond the walls. You waited till the very last minute to, uh, well, yeah, I didn't know till I fell asleep with your book in my hands. And it was at the end where I was. focusing on a stressful spot in my jaw, as you suggest in the end.

So I think I missed the last two pages by falling asleep to your recommendation. I'm just happy to see that you have my book in your hand. Oh, absolutely. I'm happy to see you smiling because there's not a lot of smiles in this book. There's a lot of hope. There's a lot of reflection. But I wanted more of you in this. I have so many friends that have been incarcerated and need the information that's in here.

But I wanted to know your story. And that's going to be the next one. Everybody has said that to me. And I'm going to honestly be so transparent. My goal wasn't to think about what I went through in the journey. It truly was, okay, this happened to me. Now what? because I knew I had more in me.

But a lot of people say, well, who is Matilda? And for me, I think I was created to bring hope, to bring light that I had to go through the things I've been through in life to be able to be on the other saying to show them, you know, if I did it, if I went through that, you still can go and get your high school diploma. You still can go get your master's degree and continue to pursue on. But I know I had to go a little deeper, but it was a battle between me and saying, do I share this point?

You know what I'm saying? First of all, it's never bad to have more to say in another book. You don't want to put it all out there. But my wife, this is my wife, bingo. Did I introduce you? Yes. Okay. I love her energy.

I just love you guys as energy. Thank you. Thank you. She has been in several mental institutions and dealt with mental health. You're like, that's one of the notes I have about this book. one of the things that you pound on is you need to find proper mental health care, which isn't that easy. You can't just seek it out.

It might not exist. And he's been on the other side of that. And I thank you for even opening that space to talk about mental health. I was clinically diagnosed depressed in 2002. On vacation, I had a bad dream and woke up with anxiety. I was in Dominican Republic visiting. And coming back home, I was like, oh my God, get me out of here. I need to go back to the States.

And I was overly stressed. I was on vacation and I got the worst panic attack. It lasts me four to five years. It was hard to explain that to friends that see you being functional. So I was dysfunctional, but functional. Yes. And because they saw me smiling, I didn't know how to express and say, this is what I'm experiencing.

I had a panic attack that said, I'm depressed, but I'm not depressed. Because I was such a people, please. Yeah, that's real. Yeah. And not only that, and not in a bad way, because I love people, but you don't understand that sometimes when you overextend yourself to people, that's stress. Yeah. But raised in a household where my mom served and helped everybody.

I thought it was normal to be nice, even when people were rude. I thought it was okay to say yes to everything when you're overly tired. Yeah. So for me, it was like, I was, okay, I'm the go-to person. I'm the one that's supposed to do this. I'm the one that I have to do this. I have to, I have to, because I saw my mom always said, yes, to everybody. I never saw her rest. But then in 2012, 2011, she was diagnosed with schizophrenia. So even raising us, she was dealing with

her own mental health and was never even told that she was with that because back then, they never expressed that. But I was diagnosed in 2002 and they gave me solops. And I was like, I'm not taking this. This is not me. I'm not doing this. And it was, again, I had to pretty much look back and say, what was it? I was carrying all the loads. I wanted to be accepted. Okay. So, so I know that obviously there's a chunk of time and we only have short chunks of this. I want to say, I want to ask you medication. You weren't no to Zoloft in 2002, but since then, and you were incarcerated in 2007 to 2008. Correct. And then moving on to now, like you started this book in 2018, if I'm right?

I started, but mentally that were supposed to be. But it wasn't until 2020. You started writing it. And I said, let's just go ahead and finish it. Because again, I was self-dow kicks in. Can you really do this? Who are you to talk about it? Again, there goes to challenge of self-sabotaging.

And because you're around people that are always dumping those little voices and you think they don't bother you, but then when you're starting to do something, you start questioning yourself. Yeah, the short version is people that suck and they're every. People that suck. It sucked all the life. People that suck. That's right.

Yes. Yeah. But you did it. It's out. It's in the, like how excited were you to go from where you were to actually having a physical copy of this in your hand? You know what? I'm going to be quite honest with you. I have, I've still been like avoiding it.

Like, yes, I wrote the book, but I really haven't sat with it to say, oh my God. I really did this. I haven't. Well. It's still like I'm getting people calling me. Oh my God, I love this. I love your energy. But I don't think I've accepted that.

Wow, you did the book. Because I think sometimes you're waiting for your actual circle to be. Now you're helping life coaching for lack of a better term. People have also been incarcerated, which as I'm not a business scholar. I'm a man with the GED, but people who are released, just released from prisons, not cash cows. That's not a market where you go, ooh, let's steal their bus fare. Yes. So that has to be a work of the heart is what I'm saying.

That's a passion. That's, I know you're a very religious person. Yes. Well, I should be very spiritual. So for me, when I created the book was more because I knew there was someone behind me that they didn't know how to defend themselves. I feel like people that are incarcerated is remember, for me, it's not a facility only. We're incarcerated mentally. So in the sense of you could be free on paper, but emotionally shame is keeping you incarcerated.

The mistake, the stories you're telling yourself. So for me, it was like, oh my God, I'm not shining my life because now someone knows what happened to me. You talk about that in the book about the difference between separation can be good, where isolation is bad, but separation from the problem. And that's very important. Yeah, sometimes you had to get the flock out. Sorry for my language. No, be you.

Be you. Because for me is when people can show up their true self, you're free. I now am opening up to this happen, but I don't want to stick to that happen to me. Look, I'm proved that it can change your life. Right. And like you said, it's a heart of the work. I before was fighting the DA, now I get to work with the DA. I'm doing work with them now.

You know what I'm saying? I'm working with youth that are being, you know, incarcerated probation. I never saw that. I was hiding because of my shame. Oh my God, I made a mistake. I didn't know how to fight for myself. Now I'm sharing light that it's okay. I, sorry, our next guest is two minutes, fuck him.

They're two minutes early. Hang on. All right. I had some notes, but I think we've already covered everything that, again, we have so many listeners that are either going in there or coming out that I thought it was important to talk to you. And I really want to read the follow up. And I want to find out, what did you do?

What were you in for? Definitely. So for me, I was, I was working at a T-Mobile store. and I was upgrading phones. So it was a group of people. Again, I was dealing with mental health at that moment. So I didn't know. I said yes that I did upgrades.

And what they did, I got railroaded. So I took the loss of the whole entire store when I was only there for three months, less than three months. So I said yes to something that I didn't know. When you take a plea, you're saying yes to whatever they give you. Again, they- Matilda, I meant I want to know in the next book. Definitely. I didn't want to open up the can of worms in our last minute on the air.

So we can save that part. And then for me, for the listeners, I want them to know that it's never too late to restart your life. Because of one setback, no matter what, you're not alone. If you're dealing with mental health, you seek out for help.

It's okay to be your true self. You're not alone. That's what we're all about, my love. Thank you. I love your smile. You're amazing. You're amazing. You're amazing.

I'm going to send you guys an email. I want to come back again. So we can open it up to whatever until that book gets done. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Take care. You too. You too.

What did she do? I was just watching Chad in the periphery go, this is boring. I try to keep the same happy energy. At some point you got to fucking. Yeah, but what did she do in the hand? When it becomes clear that there's nothing at all is going to happen, you know.

I'm bad. Holy fuck that sucks. All right. Well, I told them they're really genius. They can find good shit out of that. I'm not. I'm a dumb observer. What did she do in the end?

She stole money? Yeah, she stole railroading. What does that mean? They were all fucking stealing cell phones or something, and she took the fucking the beat for all of it. She was only partially responsible. It's nothing. You can tell by the thing.

She stole money? It's 11 months. She steal money. I want to know. Her phones or I don't know. All right. We're getting, give up to your chair. Prize picks.

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I'll put them in my. What is, all right. Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, we're ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't even have to be that professional with Robert. All right. All right, go.

Three guests. Hey, well. Hello. We wanted to double make sure. Hello. All right. Hang on. I'm here.

You're here twice. There you are. Hey, you know, I'm back. In a little better. digital condition than I remember before. Yeah, now you... It's got nothing to do with me. I just...

All I do is click. I'm not very sophisticated with this stuff. You are now in definition. You used to be blurry. Oh, okay. Before you sort of looked like the Kentucky Fried Chicken guy, but now you definitely look like

the Kentucky Fried Chicken guy. Oh, okay. All right. Welcome back. I had to do two really, really difficult interviews with people who are not, yeah, I have no idea who I am. But anyway, it was, it was, I'm glad you came back. That had nothing to be with how boring they were. We're very excited to have you back, Robert.

Well, I'm glad to be here. What, uh, what is your drink of choice? I should know this from the book, but I only, uh, remember the food stuff. Uh, I like to, I'd like a selection of things. I don't stick to one drink, but if I had a favorite, it would be a, uh, a dry, martini with sip smith gin and uh olives with stuffed cheese i guess i guess i should have gone with what would a spy drink and i would have come up with the shaken not stirred would be the cliche uh no but i in i'm plumbing got it all wrong you're not supposed to shake the yeah i was as i said it

i went wait yeah who would i've never even seen that i've watched every episode of bar rescue and no one's ever said shaken yeah he well not it was ian flumming who got a wrong. We planted that in your brain. What a horrible sly. If I'm at a bar, I want a cocktail that I can't make myself. So I love a whiskey sour with

egg whites shaken, frothy, rusty nail, something's silly, old fashion. I want something to I want something I don't already have a in a flask in my room. Yeah. Something that It's labor-driven, something that somebody's got to actually strategically put together for you.

Did you, is there like, there has to be some internal hierarchy like there is in comedy with spies where you go, oh, that fucking spy, fucking, like a spy who has a book out, let's say. And I fuck that guy. It wasn't even that good. I don't know. A lot of those guys, a lot of those guys are very serious because they have a tendency to be bureaucratic. See, the good news for me is I never had to spend time. No, do it back up. Those fluorescent lit offices with no windows, or even if they have windows, they're still horrible.

And it just sucks the energy out of people. And they have to sit there doing sexual discrimination meetings. I mean, they spend half their time doing all kinds of DEI and sexual discrimination stuff. fortunately when I was with the work I did for the FBI was a hundred percent in the field and I didn't have to endure that nonsense but because they have to do it they could be pretty boring at times I have you said out loud with a job opportunity I'm getting too old for this shit I never thought that myself but then again we're going back a bunch of years when I got out of it and I thought, I think I had to, because Monica was actually getting dangerous for me.

And I say that. I'd like to be funny, but I'm serious. It did get dangerous. As Claire George pointed out to me, you're messing with their rice bowls. And like a scene out of the Godfather over dinner in Washington, he explained to me how it would come to an end. He said, a group will go to Prince Albert and they will say, you got to get rid of Robert. Because, they were getting their rice bowls messed with and the business of Monaco is money. They spend money and most of it's laundered. This is where I'm really like,

can't wait to see where the book goes because around page 50, you kind of they had, you had that moment where they're like, get the fuck out. And I'm like, how is the whole Prince of Monaco gone? But you circle back into it.

So that's where I am halfway through. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I told the story. But I'm happy seeing you there, like, behind a giant book kit. Like, you look like a successful guy. Like, it worked out all right, is what I'm thinking. Well, it did, it did, because I got out at the right time.

And I took all my files with me as well. I just packed them all up and brought them all over. So if anybody took exception to what I would later write about, I'd be able to prove it. And we have a question. Thank you for bringing it up. up because we were talking about like places you leave you're afraid to go back to. I don't have obviously the level of issues.

One, the king of Thailand, laissez majestelaus. If you make fun of the king or even the institution of monarchy, you can spend like 15 years minimum in a Bangkok prison. So I went and played there and after I left, I did an entire bit about fuck. Mahah Vajaravidire Lankan. That's his name. The king of Bucket.

I trashed him. I was trashing him on the internet. How fuck you. I'm going to do an entire album about what piece of shit you are. Right. You know, same in Monaco. It's a crime to insult the prince. There are people who have spent time in jail over there for insulting the prince.

He gets sentenced to six months. If you insult the prince of Monaco, I knew Saudi Arabia as Lesz de Majeste, but I didn't know Monaco. Yes, Monaco, you insult the prince, you can go to prison for six months. Mind you, it's a nice prison. They have a little jail, they don't eat the Jacques Cousteau Museum. Apparently, the food's great. I haven't been there.

I don't believe you even mention it. But, you know, I don't have experience. Which is why I don't return to Monaco. I haven't been there since 2007. That was the last time I was there. I and I don't go to France either because France protects Monaco and if I went to France they might I don't know if there's some who knows they might turn me over to the the authorities in Monaco I don't even know if I'm wanted I'm probably not but why take yeah exactly that's what's

terrifies you where because I've like turned down gigs in Bangkok now like well he probably never saw that he's probably not tooling around on fucking Twitter looking for bad comments but other people. The other thing we did in October 2023 is we went to the Ukraine just as basically tourists to meet the comics

that have some comic fans over there. And we ended up joining the Azov Brigade and firing heavy artillery on the Russians. We still don't know. There's video of it out on YouTube that we put out of the entire trip and the actual, like, firing,

yeah, it was, it got, so you're not going to Russia anytime soon either. No, we don't know if that we can get in trouble here. He's saying, see you in court. We weren't, like, we weren't in uniform. I was in a tuxedo with a roughly 1970s shirt and slippery shoes in mud. And, yeah, we didn't know we were going to end up there.

But, yeah, here we are. The nice, well, I don't go to Russia either. I mean, in the book I wrote, I admitted to espionage, which can get you 20 years over there. Plus, I bad mouth Putin every chance I get. So mostly on my substack. So, yeah, it's another place I don't go. But other than that, I'm not, I don't fear anybody coming looking for me. And in any case, if they have to take a number because there's a lot of people like that in my life.

Well, you did at one point, and I love this, you did mention your wife and daughter once. Every meal, every drink accounted for. Wife and daughter. Yeah, we're trying to keep them out of it. I mean, all the time that I was working undercover for the FBI, my wife wasn't even aware of it. It's like some Donnie Brascoe shit. In fact, when I wrote the book, he got published by Potomac Books, and I gave my parents a copy of it. My father read it, and he was, he just, he couldn't believe that for 10 years I'd been doing that, and he had no clue whatsoever.

I thought you worked down at the Hyvey pumping gas. Do you think, they don't pump gas? Do you think it's like the statute of limitations on what's a murderable offense is what saves you? I mean, I don't understand the security. I guess. Well, it just, you know, it saves, in fact, what saves Americans for defamation is something that Obama passed when he was president called the Free Press Act. I'm not sure you ever heard of it.

But it's a really good thing for Americans, because what it means is if somebody sues you for defamation outside the United States, say in London, which is the libel capital of the world, or even in Paris, where the judiciary would tend to, well, favor the Frenchman. and they tried that with me at some point. They cannot enforce anything that comes out of a foreign court. The Free Press Act says that they have to come sue you in the United States as a U.S. citizen, and only then can they get any kind of penalty against you and have any hope of collecting on it. So at a time when they did try something against me,

they wouldn't come to the United States because they knew they couldn't win, because truth is a defense here. But they knew they could probably pull it off in France. So they invited me, with a summons, of course, to be part of a witch trial in Paris. They went venue shopping, not even Monaco. Paris, they wanted to do it. And I did not engage simply because I didn't have to as a U.S. citizen because of the Free Press Act. But it also means that I'm probably not going to step put in France in case they start, in case they want to get their hands on me.

Where do you go now when you like just want to go fuck off and not get up in everyone's business? I want to go to Bisby again because I really liked it. You've been to Busby? I was there 10 years ago on one day that they had a blizzard. You may have been there. You may recall it. But we had a blizzard. Stayed at the Grand Hotel and ate at Roca, which was amazing.

It was a fabulous restaurant. And then went to the stock exchange saloon to listen to music. It was the best. That's more than 10 years at that bet. You got to come hang out here again. Yeah. We got to do a live podcast. I want to.

Yeah. Stocks and stock exchanges long since closed. Weirdly never opened again. Oh, really? Yeah. That's too bad. Yeah, that lady died and it's such a great building. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, man. You got to visit again. What a great. There were the copper kettle. I didn't go in there, but that looked like a, The Copper King, yes. Yeah, Copper King, that's right.

Yeah, what was the impetus to... We go to the, on the roof and piss off the roof, the Copper King? Yeah, in the old days. He made a lot of Westerns out there, so that's part of your local lore, isn't it? John Wayne, yeah. I didn't know he pissed off the roof. I haven't heard that part. That's what I heard, yeah.

So it got tanked up. That could have been invented by Vizvi Tourism. Johnny Depp filmed a movie. really shitty movie that you would have never heard of unless you live in Bisby. And he filmed on the year. And he said the only thing he ever did in Bisby was go to the Copper Queen. But he did not piss off the roof. He's a gentleman.

What was the impetus to get you here? You know, I've been meaning to go back there ever since I was first there because I thought the art scene was fabulous, the art galleries that were there. I loved them. I'd come from Scottsdale first, which is supposed to be a big art collector's place. It was horrible. They've all moved out. The rents went sky high.

The artists couldn't afford it. The galleries couldn't afford it. They put cutsy-usey restaurants and boutiques in. And the only galleries left were schlach. That was the first stop. Then we got to Bisby, and I was blown away by the quality of the art in the galleries. All right. Yeah.

Art just ain't my thing. Yeah. I mean, you know what you like. But art is so much, like, comedy is myopic compared to what people call art. They paint his sculptures. And then, you know, Poe builds this giant spider that we put up. The thing is, like, that art? This is weird shit.

In October, in Sierra Vista, next door to here, they have Art in the Park weekend. And I believe Mr. Inger would like art in the park. So I think in October, we should do it. podcast here while he checks out. He's already booking your tickets. I'm fascinated with your stories, sir. I apologize. I may add one too many whiskeys, but I

am a complete, I'm going to read everything you've written. I'm fascinated. I'm drawn in. Oh, that's great. Excellent. Excellent. A reader. There aren't many left, you know. Publishing's a dying form. Everybody wants bits and bites and texts. That's about it. I'm never

filming another special. I'm going to film clips. Or I'll You can tape me for an hour and a half on stage, but we're only going to put them out 10 minutes at a time. Yeah. We've been calling just for fun. We're calling this segment a book by its cover. Your cover has been unanimously voted as wicked gay.

Now, I have a book, my first book, I had to listen to the publisher that didn't like my cover idea and pose for a photographer. and my first cover is dog shit. But this, the font of this is what Fabio would have a tramp stamp tattoo. It's the gay, the spy master of Monte Carlo was his throbbing member making your asshole twitch like a cyclops in a rainstorm. I had nothing to do with that cover. I had credit for it or blame.

usually the writer doesn't have a say in issues like that. And as far as I can tell, it was AI generated like everything else. Yeah. It's still a good book. And I'm not judging you for it, but I would be remiss for not pointing it out. The gayness of it makes me want to read it a little bit more.

Does Fabio make an appearance? I don't know. Where do you go next? What's your next vacation? adventure, fuck off, what's your next reservation? He's not going to tell you that, dude. I'm planning to drive to Montana.

That's the next thing I'm going to do. Nice. I've been, I've been meaning to take a trip for a while. I've been stuck here, chained to my desk, doing a lot of podcasts for this book. But the mountains are calling. So I'm off, I believe, next week. And I also have to make a trip to London

where I have a mother who's 100 years old. Oh. Cheers, dear mother, sir. Yep. I was at her birthday party last August. She's 100. She was dancing on the tables at midnight. It was amazing. Oh, yeah, that's cute. But every time I hear one of those, or the guy who, the morning news guy, hey, we have a 112-year-old lady here. What's your secret to longevity? I like to have one whiskey. And all I can think of is she has an 88-year-old son somewhere. who's been waiting for that inheritance since he was 40, and now he's going to die.

Yeah, well, you know, she's doing well. She's very healthy. God bless her. Although she did ask me the other day. I tried to talk to her every morning. There's a small window of opportunity because she's all the way in London. And so we talk on FaceTime almost every day. And she asked me if her parents were still alive.

Wow. Wow. Do you lie to her? Like she did about Santa to you? I had to explain to her that no, in fact, they've been gone for a very long time for many decades. But she took it well. It was funny. Maybe she'll take it well the next time, too. I expect so. I have my grandmother is 93 and I help take care of her and it's the same thing over and over. She forgets my grandpa died and mourns him again and again.

And it's rough. At a certain age, would you say, okay, mother passed that, but I'd never have to go back to London. Good. London is worse. Well, I like going to London. I do like going to London. That's one place I enjoy. I practically grew up there because I moved there when I was 14 years old and lived there all through the 1970s into the 80s as well.

In fact, I used to go to the Hard Rock Cafe. when it was a one-off hip burger joint run by two hipsters, Peter Morton and Isaac Tigret. That's all it was. That's all it was ever supposed to be. And, of course, it went on to a, you know, mass market, hard rocks everywhere. It was the best when it was just the one in London. Do you ever hook up with any of your old cohorts from the day?

Yeah, I'm still in touch with people. I went to high school there, the American. school in London. I'm in touch with my old U.S. history teacher who actually became the commissioner for education in the state of Colorado. And he's still teaching me stuff. I talked to him on the phone every two or three months. And there's a new, new lesson to be learned. These are spook friends from the, the, the, no, oh, the spook friends. That's what I'm talking about London, like the old. M.I.6, any of those, the old contacts? I do. You know, they're kind of, they're all retired now or dead.

But Claire George passed back in 2011. And I knew his whole generation, because those are the guys we leaned on to provide us with really good intelligence 20, 30 years ago. Most of them are gone, but there's a younger crowd like me. Not that young anymore, but I guess compared to them I am. And yeah, there's still a number one. When I go to London, there's a couple people I'll look up from the British Spook World. If I go to Washington, I see all the usual suspects. They're there, too.

All right. Speaking of suspects, do you still have any of your old skills? Can we retain you for some personal... We just did this today. 15 interviews. Thank God you came back to give us some fucking comic relief at the end. Yeah, we had one guy scheduled that I watched. He doesn't even have a book.

He's a psychic firebiter And he joined the fire department After 9-11 I watched like a sit An hour and 12 minute podcast where this guy is so maniacally full of shit So we're trying to trap this cock sucker

And like I get all these notes This was got we I fucked it up No the guy The first sign of We're fucking with you He hung up the phone And I'm like

Don't worry We got the spy master coming on. He can find out this guy's personal details. He'll track him down. He lives in Melbourne, Australia now. He quit the, yeah, so we'll talk off the air. But I'm

right, Robert, he's got some spy master left. How dare you hang up on my podcast, Mr. Rojavich? I didn't know what to expect, because I know I know you're a funny guy. You're a comedian and I thought, what are you doing with the spy

master of Monte Carlo? But I thought, This will be fun. Yeah, it started out as a goof, and it ended up as a friendship. Yeah. You know what? They say you can't make friends late in life, but until your R.H., where you've lost most of your friends, and you go, is there anyone out there want to step in? All my friends have died.

I'm good. Who's left? I'll take it. You two guys are the only guys I know in Bizby. So now you're my best friends. Absolutely. We got a guest house for you. That is probably not of the standards of the prison in Monte Carlo, but you'll get used to it.

Yeah, and plus you got that whole time warp thing going on there. Once you get through that tunnel, right? Through the tunnel. Bingo, come say hi. My wife is coming to say hi. Oh, good. I love to come say hi. Hello.

Hello, how you doing? Nice to see you. I like your outfit. I've been listening the whole time. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So you have to come visit us. I want to so badly, and I will.

What is your spy schedule like? These days, it's, I wake up and I look at my diary like Claire George used to, and somebody says, what do you got planned for the day? And I say, absolutely nothing. Oh, that is great. I just have fun writing on Substack. Where is Montecito? Where is Montecito? Montecito is right next to Santa Barbara.

See, I just said fuck you to an Oxnard gig. Yeah. Oh, well, we'd come see an Oxnard. Yeah, no, I said, no, it's horrible. That levity live is fucking terrible. I've been up there when fucking Depp was in the green room and this, like, one third sold. This is not going to happen again. Well, I have a friend.

I have a friend on the other side of the mountains here. his name is Glenn and he's your biggest fan and he was telling me about you a year ago, two years ago and of course I completely forgot what he was talking about but he just raved about Doug Stanhope

let's do our first on air let's do our first on air you drunk dialed Glenn and I'll say hello well yeah I'm not really I'm not really call right now

but here's what happened I texted him yesterday and I said did you did you mention Doug Stan hope to be? He said, and he braced me back. He says, yeah, why? I said, I'm on his show tomorrow. He texted back immediately.

He said, get the fuck out of Dodge. Give him on the phone. Colum. Get him on the phone, Robert. Glad. Glad. I could. Glad. Okay. Let's say, I can call him. Hopefully he'll answer. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. All right. Here we go.

Speaker phone. You know that button yet? I actually do. Yeah. He's the spy. I think you can comprehend. Jesus Christ. Okay, it's ringing. It's ringing.

We don't hear it ringing. Yeah, where's your microphone? You're like, your audio's off the charts in and out. Glenn? What the heck? Are you there? I'm totally here. I'm going to put you on Facebook.

Hey, it's Glenn. It's Doug Stanhope. Can you hear me? All right. You're on FaceTime? Can you see me? Yes? I see myself.

Hold on one second. Okay, he sees himself. He must be your age now. Can you see me now? Without the spy pedigree. Okay. He's trying. He's connecting.

There he is. All right. Now, hold on. Who's that? Oh, hold it up. Hold it up there. Higher. Higher.

There you go. Hey, Glenn. How are you, sir? Oh, man. I was digging the weeds in the garden here thinking about you all. I'm going out there. there. Hello. I thought you, I thought you said digging the weed in the garden. Like, he's been digging the weed. Dude, I'm digging the weed in the garden, man. Come on out.

It's a pleasure to talk to you. No, it's a serious pleasure to talk to you. Thank you, man. You've kept me going through COVID. You kept me going. You are, as I told my buddy Robert, I said, you are a comedic freight train and I love you. He'll explain it to you. We just did this whole thing as a goof from, we're on some PR author, please interview our client thing. So we were just trying to fuck with authors. But in that process,

I got the Spymaster book and I was so into it. I'm actually reading it and loving it there to the point where we had 15 minutes with Robert and we went through the last two and got him to come back on just for our. sake because we're huge fans. So you're my number one fan. No, we're Robert's number one fan.

I have delighted to hear this because when Robert first proposed a road trip to meet a Bisbee, I go, only if I can introduce you to this guy who I know about in Bisbee, who I just know you will connect with. And his name's Doug, and you've got to look him up. And then he texts me and said,

didn't you tell me about some guy named yeah I pretty much told you about this guy named Doug Stanhope so I can't tell you how stoked I am that it came together like that that's awesome you guys absolutely did pleasure to me

glad all right we're going to go to the show we're going to go to one of Doug shows and even better than that we're going to go to Bisby we're going to go to yes yes all right you're always

welcome. Take care. Take care. Bye. Bye. All right. Yeah, I, I, wonderful. That was great. Offered the Oxnard and I went, you know, I think I'll just book up San Diego because that way. That's how you're doing La Jolla. La Jolla looks good and San Diego. That's nice. And Escondido, I'm sure I've been through it. They're all the same place. But I don't have to deal with L.A.X. I'm doing Irvine and three places outside of San Diego. I don't have to go to L.A.X. Worst airport in the world. Well, first of all, you've been to some shitty ones. once, but the first, worst American airport. I agree.

No, no, I'm asking you. I'm asking you. I can't ask you what your worst airport in the world is because you'd go like, well, it's not called that, but it used to be called this in Kong, in Africa. It's got through several fucking name changes. It was in Moscow. It was in Moscow. Late 1990s, Moscow.

That'd be the worst for me. Yeah. I'm sure they've cleaned it up. They got a bunch more money. Let's go with Best. That's here. What's the best? Oh, gosh, I love the airport in Luxembourg.

Great Airport in Luxembourg. I would go to Luxembourg. I fucking hate Europe, but I would go there because it's weirdly small. I'll tell you, Santa Barbara's got a great airport. We get a gig anywhere near here, fly into Santa Barbara. Bingo has no idea. The Santa Barbara Airport. We were at it, and our flight was massive.

massively delayed. And we first got, talk about spy equipment, get smart, whoever the guy on James Bond with the fucking funny. The TV be gone is the, it's just a little tiny keychain remote that turns off any TV. And I remember, remember we were stuck there in daytime tiny bar and you just got that. And you just kept turning off the TV. And the bartender was going slapstick Charlie Chaplin. crazy. I don't know what's, and this is ours. I remember going out to smoke. But you were getting irritated at me too. Yeah, like you were doing it too often. That was so fixated on this machine. We're the only people in the fucking air, the bar. Great.

It doesn't take a spy to figure out. I wasn't a good spy. I was just like. So yes, that's the only bright spot to Oxnard as a possibility. Now it's you. Yeah. I can call it. You got to come to Montecito.

Monocito, Santa Barbara. The airport's good. Monocito's fun. You'll have a good time here. I'll make sure of it. Text me Oxnard because you, yeah, you make that more of a possibility to actually play Oxnard again. Just to fly in and out of Santa Barbara and meet you. I like it. Sounds good. Sounds good. I hope to catch one of your shows. I probably, I don't have to drag Glenn. He'll be he'll be dragged. He'll be dragging me because he's the biggest fan you may ever have. The two of us will

go to you somewhere. We will see you somewhere. Please drag Glenda Bisby and a podcast so I can hang out with you guys because I don't go to all the shows he goes to. So I'm the bigger fan. Don't bother him. Okay.

Please as soon as we hang up, email me Dougat Dougstanhope.com. Okay. We'll do. All right. All right. Thank you so much. That was awesome. Good of meeting good.

Nice to meet you. You make this day worthwhile, sir. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Okay. Bye, bye-bye. Bye. All right.

We got a new buddy. Oh, I thought that is success. We got a new friend. I was in a sweet ending at the end of the fun. Like the right. They finally, yeah. It'll come back around. That he's a good friend.

Exactly.