The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guest: Jonathon Seidl | 10/24/25

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Are we headed toward a civil war? Glenn urges his listeners to be prepared for anything as the Left continues to fan the flames of political divisiveness. Glenn passionately speaks on the importance of following the mission of Jesus Christ. Jonathon Seidl joins to discuss his new book, "Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic," which dives into what society gets wrong about alcoholism.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stu says we're headed for civil war and we're all about to die. Now, I thought that was a little bit hasty. I didn't say that. Well, you have to listen to yourself and you decide. Did he say it or not? Also, exercise your faith in God. He is not neutral in the affairs of men. A phone call that I took today, you really have to hear because I think a lot of people feel the way this caller did.

Also, John Seidel joins us to discuss his new book, Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. All of that and so much more on today's broadcast. Let me tell you about good ranchers in a world where most everything seems imported. It's still easy to forget that America knows how to feed itself. Thankfully, good ranchers exist to prove that we do. Every cut they sell, every steak, every chicken breast, every burger comes from 100% American farms and ranches. You know, the president just did something that I don't agree with because it's hurting our ranchers. And they're going to have a hard time.

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Use the promo code Beck when you subscribe for an additional $40 off, plus free meat for life. please support our ranches and our farms. It's promo code Beck, $40 off plus free meat for life when you subscribe. It's good ranchers.com. Welcome to the table. Hello, America. You know we've been fighting every single day. We push back against the lies, the censorship, the nonsense of the mainstream media that they're trying to feed you.

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Let me ask you something. You go to work. You're working with somebody you've worked with for 30 years. And they say to you, you know, if you've ever really seriously considered alternative citizenship, you should really consider it right now. How do you take that? What is that friend trying to say to you? Stu? I mean, it could be that I have information that I'm going to give to the government.

government about your illegal poker games. What the hell is that? Well, I mean, I was thinking about it a little bit. Uh-huh. This is what he said to me in the break. He just, we were talking about other things. We were like, okay, we got to talk about this. We got to talk about this.

And by the way, Glenn, if you've ever really considered alternative citizenship, now is probably the time to do it. I'm like, excuse me, what? Well, 10 seconds. Wait a minute. What? My thought process was, you know, there was a, you know, there was a, there was a truce of sorts in our country where you didn't go after your political enemies

with the force of law. The Democrats decided, if you remember recently, that they were going to break that truce and just dissolve all of the traditions that we had in that area by trying to throw Donald Trump in prison over and over and over again. Now, you may have noted that, you know, We are having a situation where I think this is going to be the norm going forward. And when the next Democrat gets in office, I'm not saying you're at the top of the list to get thrown into a gulag, but you're not at the bottom of it. Right.

So this might be. And you're just going to skate. You're just fine. Oh, I turn state's evidence immediately on you. The easiest thing in the world for me, because I can just go in there and be like, oh, let me tell you all the stuff I know about Clinton. And they're going to, I'm free. I think I'm pretty sure that's how it works. But I do think, you know, you know, Donald's not going to be president forever.

What country? Well, imagine if like AOC is the president of the United States. Oh, please don't. Do you think there's going to be, and by the way, not completely outlandish. She's right in the, I would say, middle of the pack right now in the Democratic primary if she were to run. And you never know what's going to have. happen. There's a bunch of different thing. That could never happen.

By the way, Mom Dami looks like there's absolutely no way of stopping him from being mayor of New York. But anyway, go ahead. What was your point? So my point is someone like that gets into office. It is, I mean, if. Don't come after anyone who's ever said anything about low taxes.

If anybody thinks, I mean, we must win the midterms and we must win 2028. I mean, because he has come after, you know, when he starts saying you're a terrorist organization, and which I believe, you know, Antifa is a terrorist organization. When you say, I'm coming after George Soros, Bill Gates and the Ford Foundation, all of these things, you are, you have declared war. And they are not, when they have the opportunity to punch back, they are going to punch back. God help us.

Yeah. God help us. He's either got to wipe it out or we're screwed. We're screwed. And look, we could all, you hope for the best and prepare for the worst, right? So what country is going to be the country? First of all, I would never shut up. So I go to Antarctica.

I'm organizing the penguins. You know what I mean? I'm like, look it. We got to go back into America and free America. and free America. So, I mean, where do you go where the United States, remember how they were uniting people, you know, Biden under Biden. They were, I mean, they were trying to get Elon Musk, you know, destroy him in like four different countries.

So where do you go? You go nowhere. Well, first of all, someone who's known you for 30 years. It's true you never shut up, including at movie theaters and concerts and funerals. concerts. So, yes. And so that's number one. I do agree with you on that part of it. I think like your goal in a situation like that, and you've probably put more thought into this than I have, but like with your goal into a situation where a government has become weaponized to come after you is to move your name down the list. And one of the ways you do that is just add barriers. Like if you're not, if you're at your house in Texas, they just show up. if you're in another country, they got to make a few phone calls.

I mean, just add barriers. There's a lot of people they're going to target. Make yourself lower on the list. Yeah, you're in another country. You know what comes to mind? Two words. Red mist. That's what comes to mind, you know.

And if they're back in charge with big food and big farmer, they're like, red mist, put it on the fruit loops. Yeah. It's very inexpensive artificial coloring. Very good. All right. Let me take some phone calls. Tammy and Virginia.

Welcome to the Glenbeck program. Hi, Tammy. Nice to be here. Thank you. It's your turn. Now's the time. We have not done this in a while, apparently. It's more difficult than I remember.

That was your time. I got it. Okay, good. When I was taught, I was thinking when a civil war, if a civil war came to the country, it would be between the people on the streets. Never did I ever dream that it would be government official, like in Illinois, in California, not listening to the laws, not listening to the administration.

Yeah. And I'm wondering, where does this lead? Well, you know, let me say this, Tammy. It's a little like I'm an alcoholic. And for several years, before I admitted I was an alcoholic, I would ask myself every day, am I an alcoholic? When you're asking the question, question, pretty good shot.

You're deeply down that road. Okay. So if you're asking, is this going to develop into a civil war? I've never asked that before up until recently. You know what I mean? I've lived for 62 years. I've lived in America. Never had that, never had that thought.

We're going to go into a civil war? Never had that thought. Okay. Now you kind of ask yourself every day. If they're doing this and they are blind. blocking the feds from actually doing constitutionally what they're supposed to do. And that is then triggers the constitution on an insurrection, which would mean the government then has to, has the right and the power to go into those states and put down an insurrection. Yeah, I don't think we need to ask ourselves, where is that leading?

We know where that's leading. And it's no place good. is a difference, you know, are we in a civil war? Again, I go back to the alcoholic thing. You don't need to ask that question. You know, you know. When it comes, you know. So wait, you're saying we are in a civil war because you're asking the question?

No, no, I'm saying that the, I'm saying that the likelihood of going into a civil war is higher than any other time in my lifetime. Because we're all asking that question of, is this going to lead to a civil war? I mean, what happens? Yeah. So we're all asking this question. question because we all have the same feeling. I can't find the way out of this because they're going they're using police to go against federal police. So you've got that conflict. That I mean that is bad. That's not civil war. No, no, no. I know. I said it's more likely to happen because we're

seeing these things. When you go into a civil war, no one's going to ask is this a civil war? because civil wars are quite obvious. It's not like, oh, it's a police action. No, civil war will destroy everything. It's how we turn into Haiti. You don't want a civil war. You don't want to do everything you can to avoid a civil war. So is it like, you know, Michael Moore walks into a restaurant?

Yes. First of all, the chefs are terrified. But walks into a restaurant and sits down on the table. The owner is very happy. Right. He's just like, we're going to run out of food. Somebody go out and get more. So Michael Moore walks into a restaurant, sits down at a table, looks across the restaurant.

And across the restaurant, on the other side of the restaurant, is Jennifer Aniston. Mm-hmm. Now. Don't know where you're going with this, but it's an interesting scenario so far. He eats Jennifer. No. He think, so walking into the restaurant, the chances of Michael Moore having a fling with Jennifer Brannison, we're incredibly low, like almost zero. Right. Now that they're in the same location,

the odds are increased. However, still it's very unlikely. Would you say that's where we are with Civil War? If he's mixing her drinks, the odds go up. Now, who's mixing our drinks? You know what I'm saying? Right. So you're saying it's not necessarily a high probability event of a Civil War. But it is becoming more and more likely. It doesn't mean that it's, you know, high. I think we're at 15% now. 15%. You think it's that high for a civil war?

Yeah, maybe 20. Holy crap. That's depressing. This is what I'm saying about citizenship. I know. Let's go somewhere else. Wargame this. You have people who are intentionally funding a color revolution.

But you've been talking about this for 20 years. Right. And notice things are starting to happen and come true. When I was talking about it, remember, that's when he was like, that's crazy. Yes. And we're going to have, we're going to watch TV on our phones too. Okay. Right.

Now all this stuff is happening. And everything that I told you was like, these people are all going to work together to do this. And it's going to be a color revolution. We now have proof that they are doing a. color revolution here in America, and they're funding it to $300 million for the No Kings weekend. We know what their intent is. So we also know that, you know, did you see the stuff on Snap? Look at this.

You know, so they're now saying that we're going to run out of money for Snap. Right. Some states are starting to get to that point. Right. You look at X and you'll see person after person after person. after person. Americans, you got to get ready to loot

after Snap is going to get canceled. And Snap's the food stamps. Food stamps. The new name for food stamps. So, you know, we can't get a job. We won't have any food.

And there's people that are, are seriously now saying we should riot. And lots of influence from foreign governments. Absolutely. That might own particular apps that you're on. Correct. So it's, I mean,

it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what's real. It's, there was this book called, um, positioning the battleground of your mind. It is, it was what started and, and explained the cola wars. Okay.

Pepsi versus Coke came out in the early 80s. And, uh, that's a kind of civil war I like, by the way. Me too. I mean, um, and, and what it talked is, what it talked about was perception is reality. And, you know, when you perceive something one way and the society perceives it one way, then it becomes reality. the perception here for a lot of people on the left is the only way to solve this is through violence. That's becoming more.

I would say that that's, I'm hopeful that it's less than 5% of our population believes that violence is the answer. But that number is growing. And the apathy toward violence, political violence, is growing probably fast. than the actual people that would commit the violence, right? Yeah. And I do think, you know, when you talk about social media, perception is an interesting part of that, right? Like, it's why they say in relationships in your marriage, like, don't talk about divorce. Like, don't threaten divorce when you don't mean it because it becomes closer and closer to reality.

So I can see what you're saying from that standpoint. I think a lot of people have this idea. Maybe it's because some spend their weekends for free reenacting the civil. War that it might not be that bad. It would be very bad. Very bad. It's not something that you want to keep bringing to the forefront of our political conversation.

No. I will say that. I know you're warning against it for sure. I'm not advocating. I know. I am warning. That's my job is to warn for anybody who has eyes and ears, listen up. This is the plan from the left.

The government has now recognized that and is trying to curb that, but they're dead serious about color revolution. And so when you know that that is happening, you have to put in gear the opposite direction. We have to go the opposite direction and try at all cost to hold things together, keep people peaceful as long as possible to hopefully turn this corner. Because a corner is being turned. But as the light grows stronger, would you agree with me that the light since Charlie's death, the light has grown stronger?

Okay, I believe it has. Good is starting to wake up. But at the same time, the darkness is growing darker. Can you disagree with that in the last five weeks? Have you not seen real darkness? Of course, that's the way it always works. It's a race to the finish line. Let's stay on the right side of the light.

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This is the best of the Glenn Beck program. Let me go to Allen in Maine. Hello, Alan. How you doing? So I am just thrilled to talk to you. And Stu, I just, you guys are America's watchman. And as soon as you said, I'm going to take a few calls. Something in my head triggered to me to actually give that man a call right now.

Because I just see a few canaries in the coal mine, Glenn. And I know you guys do too. If you guys see what's going on in Virginia, the AG race, I mean, it's just, You got Mondamy there in New York. I mean, the Virginia race, I mean, what was said that the evilness behind it, it just goes along with what's going on up here in Maine. We have a Senate race going on up here. Everybody knows Senator Susan Collins. She's not a friend to conservatives by any means.

We are being pushed in the corner up here because we are, we have no, we have no, you know, nobody is in our corner for us, really. She's the only one we have up here. It's getting really, really blue. And we have a man right now running for the Senate who's an actual Nazi. I'm saying that because the things he said on the stump is really disturbing. As a Christian, as a Jewish Christian, I am very upset the things he said. And the tattoo that just came out and he just supposedly covered it up, it's not just an ordinary tattoo, Glenn. This is an SS soldier tattoo.

This is the worst of the worst. And what scares me the most is the new pole that just came out, the New Hampshire poll. It puts him almost doubled over Janet Mills. She's the, you know, she's the Democrat from, you know, the establishment Democrat. So hang on just a second. So hang on just a second. It scares me that people will just vote for, you know, an AG in Virginia who's like, hey, just let the blood flow in the streets and a Nazi in Maine.

But do you think in the general he would win over. Susan Collins? You know, Glenn, I've been thinking about it lately, and the same push that made me call you is ringing in my head right now, and it's just bringing up a quote that you brought up in a book that you wrote, and it was a quote that Hitler made, and it talks about how the spirit becomes almost like magic, you know, and that's what's coming right now. If you look at the youth right now, they're being, I mean, they're pushed against the corner, too, you know, guys, it's expensive out there.

Just hamburger alone is very expensive, and if you'd say, you'd say, you're going to, you see what these people are saying on the stump speeches. They're, you know, like Russia should say, their skulls full of mush, and they are. They're absolute mush, and they're absorbing this stuff like sponges. And this man's out on the stump saying the things that they want to hear. You know, Maudeami's not doing anything different than no one else has ever done, but he's giving these people hope. You know, and that's what they're grabbing onto. They don't mean it.

You know, just like the Islamists, they'll lie to their adversaries, and I believe these people are lying to our faces, and we know that for a fact. And I know, Glenn, for the years I've been listening to you and reading your books. These people are serious. I mean, if you took what they did during COVID, I mean, we haven't even got to the bottom of that yet. Thousands of people lost their jobs. And this man's out there saying things that just his rallies are bringing in the youth. The rallies are packing in people, and I'm a little worried.

You know, this might be the actual, in the grand election, this could be the end for Senator Susan Collins. And it's not going to go the way we think. I mean, we have no one up here in New England. And if you really think about it, New England is where all of us really came. You know, the Mayflower. I mean, a lot of our history, Boston, Maine, and we, we, Massachusetts, we are rich in history. The first Fort Knox up here, we just, gone, you know, these people, we have, they've forgotten the history and it upsets me so much because we're so rich in history up here.

And this guy's going out there saying things that just, it's disgusting. And I don't know. Do you really think Senator Sue, I mean, I don't see her grabbing on to Trump? I mean, I don't, she's, she's going to try to grab onto Democratic votes. I don't think it's going to work. He's going to take them. He's going to take the votes for her. And then what?

The conservatives are going to, I mean, I know, no one, we don't really love Susan Collins, but if we lose her people, that's a, that's a heavy voice in the heavy hand that we need right now. She, I'm just, it's just not looking good. I'm afraid, Glenn, that these, the youth are buying what these, what these Islamists and what these Marxists, like you said, they're working together. And they're, they're grabbing onto it. And they're chewing it up and they're swallowing it. And it's upset.

to me because I wish Trump would come up here and do a speech and do it and just do a rally because we're just, I mean, you know what's going on with our grograp. I mean, from China taking over. I know. It's getting to a point where. Alan. Alan? Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

I can hear it in your voice and I feel what you're feeling. And I just, I want you to know, Texas is. is a wonderful place to live. Florida is a wonderful place to live. I know nobody wants to give up on their areas, but there are places that, you know, I think Minnesota, I think, you know, some parts of Michigan and may lose all of Michigan

at some point that are just, they are, they're being fed to the wolves, and they are being fed to the wolves by the Democrats. The Democrats made this deal with the devil to get into bed with the leftist and the Islamists and they thought they could control them. Well, Chuck Schumer is terrified. The Democrats, the old Democrats that made this deal and played foots with them are all terrified that they are going to.

to be eaten by their own leftist crazies. And you're seeing it now, you know, where you have a, you know, an okay Democrat, you know, as far as that goes, in Maine running against a Nazi. And the Nazi is winning. This is, we are in extraordinarily difficult times. And I know that.

And I want you to know that you're not, alone in feeling that, but you're also not alone in praying and trying to do the right thing. So let me give you this piece of advice. Just do the next right thing. Exercise your faith in God that God has control and he is not neutral in the affairs of men. That requires us, if we want the blessings, it requires us to do all of the hard work. We cannot sit on the sidelines. We cannot give up. We must do all that we can do and then let it go. Whatever happens, it's his will and he will work it out. We don't deserve the blessings that we have already received. We don't. We don't deserve. Look at how we question 2020.

And now look at how if we all know if 2020, if Donald Trump would have won then, we would not be in the place we're in right now on the good side because Donald Trump changed. God saved him. He found God, I really believe, in Butler. He educated himself over the last four years. What he and his family went through in those four years changed him. and now we have this version of Donald Trump, not the 2020 version of Donald Trump. And yet I was on the air going, this is really bad. There's no way out of this.

We could be doomed by 2024. And we might have been, but look at the miracles that happened in the summer of 2024 that led up to Donald Trump winning. We've got to let our version of what has to happen. go. We have to just do the next right thing and the Lord will work it out. We cannot value our second citizenship, our passport in the United States of America. We cannot value that higher than our first citizenship in the kingdom. He is the king. No king but Christ. He is the one we answer to. He is the one we put our faith in. He is the God of

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and if anyone can save it, it is him, not us. We are dealing with true evil, unlike anything I've ever seen in my lifetime. We are dealing with, as I said in 2008, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, said almost every day, we are going to see the evil that we have not seen since the 1930s. We're going to see it on our own streets here in America. Well, it is here. And there's no way for man to defeat evil without God. But I have great faith.

Why is God? Is God a taunting God? Is he a God that just plays? with us, why would he save Donald Trump at that moment? Why would he save and preserve his life? He's not toying with us. Why would he let Charlie Kirk go? Because Charlie Kirk lived his life every second doing exactly what God told him to do and look at the miracle that has happened since the death of Charlie Kirk. The number of people that watched that memorial, is is estimated to be over 1.2 billion people. Watch that memorial. We just received a Bible from

an auction that we bought. And it's one of the first Bibles printed here in America. And in it, back in the old days, you know, Bibles and books were just very expensive. And so you went to leaders and, you know, influencers, if you will, and very wealthy people. And you said, hey, we want to to print this book or this library and we would like you to be a funder of it and help, you know, endorse this. We just bought this Bible, one of the first printed in America and the funders and the ones who attached their name to the testimony of the truth of the gospel. First funder was George Washington, President of the United States.

Second one, John Jay, Supreme Court, Chief Justice. one, Secretary of War, Alexander Hamilton. We believe, and we're still doing our homework on this, we believe that is the last time that Cabinet and those kinds of people testified publicly of Jesus Christ until the miracle of the memorial at Charlie Kirk, where you had the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, the secretary of war, health and human services, and everybody else openly testify. Not saying I love God. Not even saying I love Jesus. Saying Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior of the world. That does not happen. Now our job is to take that seed that Charlie planted in his own life and then in the harvest, the Lord took and started just planting seeds and showing us how ripe the fields are all over the world.

It's our job now, not just to go back to church. That's a revival. We don't need a revival. We've had revivals over and over and over again. You know when the biggest revivals were happening in America? In the last hundred years. We had a revival in 1900, 1920, 1930. We kept having revivals.

Did anything in America change? No. Those are the times when eugenics started growing out of control. When we started changing our country towards this progressive nightmare where we made our God government. We don't need a revival because that puts people in the pews. What we need is an awakening. And that means you get out of the pew if they're not talking about it.

And you tell your pastor, I cannot come here anymore because you won't talk about applying these principles to everything we do every day. The awakenings happen outside of the church. The church is the last one. When there's an awakening, there is a reformation, not just of the churches, but also of government and our own private families and institutions. Because the leadership of those families, institutions, companies, government, they all have been to church, they heard the word, but they're awake. And they now say, I'm applying this in my own life. I'm awake.

it's why I'm talking like I'm talking to you right now because the time to just say we need God is over the time to say we must obey the true king and savior of the universe Jesus Christ and live the way he taught us to live and apply those things in everything we do every conversation we have we must elect people who understand

stand who their king is. No king but Christ. Who is your king? Who do you serve? Who do you answer to? You find those people and we elect those people. We live our lives in a way that we might in some way be worthy of 5% of the mercy. He has shown us. Don't fear. All the things that you see around you, your life, your success, your failures, whatever, it's all an illusion. None of it matters. Your family, your soul, and eternity matters. If you're not doing what you're doing right now, if it doesn't involve the eternities, if it doesn't have eternal consequences, stop doing it and do something that does have eternal consequences.

You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program. John Seidel is with us now. John worked with me. Gosh, John. How many years did we work together? We went from 2010 when we started this whole thing to 2015. Yeah. And you left in 2015, and I had no idea about the struggles that you were going through

and where that would lead you. and why you're on the program now. Your book is Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. Tell me the story. Well, here's the funny thing, Glenn. I think I didn't realize the struggles that I was having when you and I were working together. And I think what's ironic, right, is I heard your story for how many years, right? You know, what that looked like and what that did to you and family and Panya saying,

you got to, something's got to change, right? Yeah. And yet, you know, and I think this is the truth about addiction is we can know something and want to do something and still fall right to it. And so, you know, 2021, I've had another book come out, became a top 100 book on all of Amazon called Finding Rest. It was about faith in mental health. And, you know, a mutual friend of ours, Billy Hallowell called me up and Billy said,

John, you have to be careful. And I said, what? he said you're going to publish a book and you know this as well Glenn he said you're going to publish a book and you kind of get this this period after you publish it where you fall into this like lull right and and you know I kind of joke that it's like it's like Talladega nights like Ricky Bobby he's like what do I do with my hands you know yeah and and and so I just kind of said well thanks Billy you know but I'll be fine you know and sure enough like I published that book and you just realize you have certain expectations that it's going to do this and that and the other thing and it doesn't.

And you fast forward, I had my own business at the time. I lost my biggest client. And then my son was diagnosed with a tumor in his shin. He was four years old at the time. And by the grace of God that ended up being benign, all of those things stacking up. And here's what I did, Glenn. I just slowly started drinking more and more and more. And it wasn't this overnight thing, and I don't think for a lot of people it is, right?

But all of a sudden I wake up in 2023 and I realize, oh my gosh, I am a full-blown alcoholic. And I have this rock bottom moment on an anniversary trip in Miami with my wife where, you know, she says, hey, I'm going to have the night in. Why don't you go do whatever you want? I said, I'm just going to go down to the hotel bar, have a few drinks and appetizers. And she goes, don't get drunk. And I say, I'm not going to get drunk. And I can say, you know, with 100% certainty that my goal was not to get drunk that night.

And yet, by the end of the night, which is beginning in the morning, morning, I'm on South Beach, Miami, by myself, waiting in the ocean, going to the bathroom drunk. And I'm like, what does my life become? And my wife, much like Tanya, you know, said, hey, listen, I don't. I don't care if you never drink again. What you have to do is get to the root of why you're drinking this way. You have to find something greater. You have to return to something greater. You have to dig that stuff out because otherwise it's going to be something else.

And I said, can we just go back to the non-drinking part? Like, that would be easier, you know, like, and actually doing the soul searching and the, you know, the surgery that it requires. You know, it's weird. You think that. I mean, you know, I got up early today and I read good portions of the book and it's very well done. And I have to tell you that there's a couple of things that I think we all go through. First of all, I'm not really an alcoholic. I'm not an alcoholic because alcoholics, I love the section where you're talking about, you know, what does an alcoholic look like?

Right. We just have this image in our mind of this is what an alcoholic is like. And I'm not that, you know, I'm not a whino. And so you go through that. You go through, you know, asking yourself and then trying to stop and you can't stop. And you really try and you promise yourself every day. And it gets worse and worse and worse every day where you're like, I, I'm a loser. I cannot stop myself.

I promised myself I wasn't going to drink today. I promised myself I was not going to get drunk when I went down to the bar, you know, at the hotel. And you violated every day. And your self-esteem just gets getting worse and worse and worse because you can't. stop and you have every intention of stopping, but you'll always find an excuse. And then when you finally realize you have to, then you don't want to do the work of what's causing you to drink because you're terrified of it. You're terrified of looking into it. And at least I was terrified that that's all that existed in me, that there wasn't actually

anything good in me. It was just this collection of... things that I had gathered my whole life. Does that make sense to you? Did you feel that way at all? Absolutely. You know, that's why it's like I would rather, and this is what I tell people,

Glenn, and some people don't like it, but I'm like, listen, my goal, my ultimate goal for people, when I'm talking to them, the ultimate goal for myself,

is not society, right? Because I want a better life than just not drinking, right? I want a better, more fulfilled, flourishing life.

That's why I'm like, man, I shot for Jesus and I got sobriety thrown in, right? Now, I'm all okay with programs. I'm all okay with steps and doing what you need to do, right? In community and talking about it, you need that, right? But man, if you, when you do look into yourself, Glenn, and you see what is truly there, right? There's no way that you can personally fix all that. No. And now, some people can white-knuckle it for a long time, but ultimately they're not as

fulfilled as they would be if they actually dug in and invited someone in to fix those. I don't know if you can white knuckle it. I really don't. I mean, you know, an AA doesn't expect you to white knucklet. A.A., the first thing is you're not in charge here. You got to admit that there's something much bigger than you. Whatever God is to you, there's God. And you have to surrender to him. And that, you know, the surrender part is part of it. But I will tell you that until I got into the waters of baptism, after all my alcoholism and everything, and white knuckling it for several years, until I got into the water, I could

not hold it. You can't. You can't carry that burden. You know, people who, I feel bad for people who don't need the entoment as badly as I did, because I don't know if you can really truly appreciate it. It is when you cannot go anymore, when this decision is, I can't live with myself anymore, it's suicide or something else. And I've tried everything else. So I'm going to give this a try. And you truly surrender and accept that forgiveness and then say, I don't want this anymore. I don't want to think about this anymore. It's all yours. Take it. It's a miracle. It's a miracle. Part of my message, too, Glenn, is for people, listen, I was a Christian.

I kind of say, like, I'm not the, I'm the Christian that became an alcoholic, not the other way around, right? And listen, it's okay. Like, I love the stories of the other way around, right? But I also want to encourage people that, listen, some of these things that are festering inside of you, you can, you can love God. You can love Jesus and want to pursue him and have all that stuff. And yet you still have these things inside of you, that fester and that you need to work on. And that was true for me, right? And Jesus, like, drinking X, Y, and Z away.

I'm cheating on my wife, whatever. I'm like, there is still hope for you because there is hope for me. Yeah, I have to tell you, I think that I feel bad for people who are deep in faith because I've seen too many say, no, I know who God is and I screwed up and there's no going back for me. There's just no going back. I'm beyond the redemption because I knew everything. It's not the way God works. That's your sick head telling you that. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I think there's parts of ourselves, Glenn, right? We have these whole healed, you know, parts that we've given over to God, right? And that's great. It's my life.

I think what we have to realize is, man, we all have these ruins in our soul. passageways, right? Like, there's a bookcase and we're looking at that and we don't realize that there's a door behind there and in that door is a bunch of rotten stuff. Yeah. And that's what we need to do. And it's, it's amazing too that you, for me, um, I honestly said my whole life. My mother kid committed suicide. I'm 13 years old. My mom commits suicide. You know, we were very, very close. I mean, my whole life changed. And, and I said my whole life until I sobered up. I'm fine.

I'm totally fine with that. I got it. I dealt with it at all. But I actually believed I was fine because I had created this little bunker inside of me that could keep that sealed. But that rot, even though you don't realize it, that you can't seal that bunker off it. It's like it has nuclear waste in it. It seeps into everything. line and she's a very wise woman and she goes you know what john you have to get two and a half

years been sober for two and a half years now and i'm still glenn finding rot down there oh yeah i'm like i'm like oh my gosh that's cellar like there's some potatoes that we're in the corner that are like look like meat now you know and i'm like well all right here we go we're going to dig those out as well i'm 30 years i'm 30 years into it and i'm still finding rocks so I mean, you know, you're, you know, you're still like, wait, this route. I thought I pulled this out. It's a never-ending process. But I'm so happy for you.

I'm really, really happy for you because your life, I mean, you're two years into it. Let me just tell you, John, it just gets better and better and better. It really does. And it is so worth the journey. It doesn't feel like it at first. And I know you, you know it. You wrote about it. It doesn't feel like it at first.

but it is so worth it and it happens it is your future should you choose it and it's very, very bright. So very happy for you, John. Well, thanks, Glenn. And I think thank you for, you know, you never know when you're telling your story. This is what I say. You telling your story that wasn't, if there's 20 steps to finding sobriety for someone, finding Jesus, if you will, like you never know whether your story is stuck. Like I remember those things, right?

And so I appreciate it. And I tell people, listen, I didn't get this. Yes, yes. You can't have best if it's easy. I don't think. Yeah, right. Jonathan, thank you so much. Jonathan Seidel, the name of the book is Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.

If you're asking yourself, am I an alcoholic? Probably are. If you're asking, you probably have a problem with it at some point. But again, Christian alcoholics, it's a whole. different world because as he points out really well in the book it's not what alcoholics aren't what you think they are you know I remember the first AA meeting this this woman who was 80 had a sweater set and a pearl necklace on and I said I don't know if I'm an alcoholic but but I'm really confused now because I didn't think alcoholics looked like you and she didn't even turn around

and she was just this beautiful beautiful older woman just so prim and proper and she just said No, honey, we're all drunks in here. And I realized you don't have to look like that. You don't have to lose everything. You don't have to, you know, be, you know, a whino in an alley to be an alcoholic. That is a cartoon character of it. And he points it out really well, really well-written book. Jonathan Seidel, Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.