The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guest: Josh Rogin | 4/17/23

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

AI is evolving and is now doubling every 48 hours, and Glenn warns of the dangers that could come from this growth in a short time. Glenn was trending after Media Matters cut a segment of his show out of context, so Glenn set the record straight. “Chaos Under Heaven” author John Rogin joins to explain what China’s role is in the Ukraine war, according to leaked Pentagon documents. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did a lot of talk about AI today. We did. Most of it, we had chat GPT right for us. Well, you had it right. I had to deliver me with the visuals and everything. I'm not even here. Right. No, I'm just, that was a totally different AI program, though.

It's crazy how fast this is growing. And when you look at the ability of the federal government now going in and saying, Because we had these guys in chat rooms that were putting out top secret stuff, they're not saying let's make our top secret access harder to get. They're instead saying we've got to monitor everything. Yeah, of course. The thing we wanted before is the thing we want now because of this new problem. Right.

It's crazy. And we're at a place to where it can happen. And so we talk a little bit about the technology that is coming, what it means that we talk about the leak and what that means with China, how long before they're ready to invade. I personally, and I could be wrong, I'm not basing this on anything other than me, my gut, what I would do. I'll tell you about the timeline with China.

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The best of the Glenn Beck program. I don't know if you saw what happened in Chicago. Can we roll the tape on Chicago? Nothing. Nothing really bad happening in Chicago this weekend. Okay, so there were some teenagers that got a little out of control, maybe a little bit, smashing windows and destroying public and private property and shootings and things like that and everything was on fire.

But that's no big deal. What is the problem? Can't blame them. Look, this has happened multiple times now. And the incredible leadership of the city of Chicago has been there to try to correct it. And this is the result of it. And they took out Lori Lightfoot to put in someone who might actually be worse. It's hard to do.

It's hard to do. Very difficult to do. But they've done it. And this will continue now. So I just like to ask, Escape from New York, I think it's probably going to be escape from Chicago before New York. But escape from New York, it will be a prison because you take those 10 bridges out and nobody's getting off that island. But you're going to have to have somebody come in and rescue people in Chicago.

It's going to get bad. Imagine if society would break down. They're doing this already. And society hasn't broken down. Oh, that's going to be good. It's going to be good. No, seriously, it's going to be good. We should talk about things, you know.

But we don't generally do that. But I think we should start. What is happening to us? Because we're about to enter a whole new world. We're about to give birth to something. Our due date is coming. You know, I was reading the Bible this weekend. And I saw the words.

ripened fruit. And I thought, oh, wow, that's what we are. We are in our decay. We are ripened fruit, ready either for the picking or just to fall and rot on the ground. We got to, we got to change things. We have to start turning things around. And unfortunately, we have some huge issues that we're not paying attention to and we're not making progress. We just keep arguing left versus right. We keep arguing Democrat or Republican. That's a really pretty useless argument at this point. Why don't we start arguing principles? Because if we don't return to those principles, we're in trouble. Here is, here's the latest news on AI. Do you know that AI, chat GPT and AI, it is doubling, what would you say is fast? It is doubling its power, its

intellect, its toolbox, if you will, every 48 hours. Every 48 hours, it's doubling. They've never seen anything like this. They're surprised. Really? You were surprised? Because, you know, again, a guy who doesn't have all of your education. I swear to you, I should just be in some of these labs. I should go over to Wuhan.

And I should just be like, you know what? This is going to escape. Here's how. It's going to escape. And then you're forced to listen to me, I think. I think. If we're going to have a world, we should just make the bankers listen to me and go, you know, that system there? I think you're relying too much on that.

And you're doing all this bad stuff that weakens that. So you should stop doing that. Just all we need are just a bunch of farmers, really. Anybody, anybody who's just a regular. Schmo, who's paying attention, you know all this, you know all these things are coming. AI doubling every 48 hours. That will mean for the average, let's say a cell phone, it will make the progress that a smartphone that a smartphone made from 2007, when it was first introduced to 2018, in 2018

in the next six months. I don't know. That seems pretty fast. You are now entering a time where they're talking about we should shut this down. We should at least pause for a while. Well, you can't now because China is already there. And China is not going to shut it down. So do you want China to surpass the United States?

How about this? We just shut down the American. American innovation that's public. And we have everybody just work for the government like a Manhattan project. So then the government is the only one with AI. Oh, that sounds good too, doesn't it? There are no good options. And too many nefarious people, when I saw the teenagers, I thought, oh, yeah, no.

No, there's not people that just want to see the world burn. Mm-mm. Because chat GPT, as it stands now, you can. you can make a weapon of mass destruction with chat GPT. You could right now, if you're really nefarious, say, find the most important people in institutions, and search them out, develop fake web portals for all of these banks,

and send emails out and say you've got to change, go through this web portal, and it looks just like Bank of America. And as it's rejected or accepted, it learns how to write that letter to get you to go through that portal. And then once it has all of your information, it just clears your bank accounts. And it does it with everybody who is very, very, very wealthy, does it to the corporations, does it to anybody that will, log online, not the little people. It's a weapon of mass destruction. That could happen today with chat GPT. And it will learn. You could do that today. I was listening to David Sacks on All In, his podcast, and they were talking about scenarios like that. They're like, done. What do you think? And David was like, well, we should just wait for regulation. We don't know what we're dealing with yet. And I'm like,

what do we what do you mean wait it's doubling every every two days what are how long do we wait 30 days five weeks how long do we wait because the world is going to change at an exponential pace and i don't have a solution i don't think there is a solution except for all of us coming back to true principles and understanding self-regulation just because you can do something, Wuhan Labs, you don't do it. Just because you can, you don't. I mean, I appreciate this as an important principle for humanity generally. Yes.

But I don't even know how that solves this problem. I mean, what does self-regulation do to the, and as you point out, all of us using the, you know, very easy. to achieve standard of full compliance. I mean, like, well, the idea is either we self-regulate, which won't happen.

There's always, I mean, in billions of people, there's somebody who's like, I'm just going to, just going to set the whole world on fire. It's always somebody. And if we don't have it,

if the average person doesn't have it, because, well, we're going to protect, we're going to protect everybody. Then you have governments in charge of it, like they're not going to enslave the world. All right, that's going to be terrible too. Yeah, horrible.

This is bordering, I will be honest, on one of those problems. And there's a few of them out there that just feels so big that I just kind of throw my hands up and don't care about it anymore. That's like where I'm starting to get with AI. Well, because it's either, it's something's going to happen with it. And I know I can't control it. And I don't know. I honestly don't know what the answer is. It's coming way too fast.

The answer is, the answer. I gave in 2007 or eight, unplug from the system. Make sure that you're not reliant on giant systems. I read an interesting manifesto by a guy who lived in a shack who recommended the same thing. I'm starting to wonder. So you know who. Between him and the villain in a view to a kill, I mean, did we have, did they have some of this down? Do you remember the guy we interviewed? What was his name from Yale University, mathematician? Oh, yeah. Incredible guy. Yeah, yeah. He has a black glove on his hand like Darth Vader because he was the first target of the Unabon.

Hold on. Let me ask AI what his name is. Okay. And he opened up his mailbox and it, a bomb of nails went off. He is in tremendous pain to this day. I'm trying to remember his name. And he wrote a book about this time. And the Unabomber missed his point. He was like, guys, we shouldn't go. He's. this is what the world looks like. And he said, I think, I think Ted Kaczynski just read like the first half of the book where I was explaining what can be done. Because in the second half of the book, I'm like, we shouldn't do it. But so he didn't, Ted Kaczynski didn't get it from him.

He got this technology from a guy who, you know, has worked for Apple. He's, he's won the biggest case. I think he won a billion. dollar case against Apple for stealing some software. I mean, he's a genius, and he's been warning about it for a long time. And what he says is the same saying that it's going to, guys, this is going, you're going to see all of these lines come together. All of these things that are problems, they're all going to come down to one solution.

And that solution is you strengthening your core. with God. It's it. It's the only thing that's, remember when I said to you, there's going to come a time when you're going to be walking down the street and you're going to hear, don't go there, turn around. And you've got to stop and turn around and not question that voice. That time is right around the corner, right around the corner. Profound change is coming. And it doesn't mean that that's bad. It just means that you have to be prepared. is the best of the Glenn Beck program, and we really want to thank you for listening. I guess I was trending over the weekend and all for the wrong reasons, because the George Soros money that is, you know, so proudly on display at media matters, a group that Hillary Clinton, you know, she doesn't like misinformation, Hillary Clinton, Podesta and George Soros started.

I think it was Podesta, wasn't it? There's three of them. They started Media Matters. and they have spent money to cloud issues because they know Americans really just hear things and move on. I was trending this weekend because apparently I'm an anti-Semite again. And I'm not saying any of this to defend myself. I need you to hear the point. Need you to hear the point.

I was talking last week about doctors and how concerned I am about our medical profession. It's happening all over the world. Norway just cleared the path so you can kill children if they're terminally ill. This is not a good thing. It's not a good thing. Every time this happens, it starts with compassion and it ends in mass slaughter. And it is not, usually the ones who lead it are not the Nazis. Okay?

They're not. They're the doctors and nurses. nurses. They're the scientist. When people say follow the science, that's what it leads to. Okay. And I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to teach you some things that maybe you didn't, you didn't know. You never even heard before. When we got rid of slavery in the United States and the world for the first time started to really turn universally in the, you know, Western countries against slavery. When that happened, something else happened right around the same time. And it was the publishing of this book. I tried to get a first edition copy of this the other day.

150,000. So I'm going to stick with our eighth edition copy. A very important book. Origin of the Species. This is Darwin. And most people don't know that Darwin, the name of origin of the species, it's not, that's not the full name by means of natural selection. Okay.

Origin of the species by means of natural selection. Maybe people will know that. They don't know or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life. Of favored races. Which means there are favored races and there are inferior. races. This was the first time science. If you follow the science, it codified it. Then he wrote dissent of man. And in that, he makes it even more clear that there are inferior races. So if you want to look for the codification, the justification of racism in America and the world, I would say a

lot of it is not from, but codified, institutionalized, made okay through Darwin. Because he teaches us favored races. Okay. So what happened from there? Well, the American institutions and the German institutions of higher learning. Again, the scientists, the doctors, the anthropologists, the psychiatrists, they all embrace this. And they're like, well, if there's favored races, we've got to get rid of the undesirable races. Okay. The other was, maybe we can speed up the transition

and make everybody part of that favored race because, you know, science stuff. So I said last week that it wasn't the not. Nazis that were killing the people in the Holocaust. It was the Nazi doctors that were doing it. And I saw a post somebody sent to me and said, Glenn, you should, you should see. Where were their uniforms?

If they were not just doctors, they would have had uniforms. And I'm like, have you ever looked up Joseph Mangala? He was famous doctor. He's wearing a uniform. I mean, they were high up in the SS. But also, too, my understanding, at least if you're certainly in the context, it seemed that you were indicating at the beginning, right? Like, you know, they've been after a while that they expanded these practices. The ones who brought this.

Let me let me just explain. Now I'm going to use, and I'll tell you what I'm using later, but just for this demonstration, I'm using what some people might think is a sketchy source. Okay. Oh, great. But, no, but hear me out. Right. I'm guarantee somebody is going to complain. They go, that source, that's not.

But I'll tell you about that later. Joseph Mangala, one of the most info. I'm reading from this website. Joseph Mangla is one of the most famous figures in the Holocaust. His service at Auschwitz and the medical experiments he conducted have made him the most widely recognized perpetrator of the crimes committed in that camp. Because of his infomerate. Mengula has been the subject of numerous popular books, films, and television shows.

Many of these portrayals distort the real facts of Mangala's crimes and take him out of his historic context. And they portray him as a mad scientist who conducted statistic experiments with no scientific bases. Now, that's an important phrase, isn't it? People remember him as a crazy. He wasn't. The truth about Mangala is more disturbing. He was a highly trained doctor and medical researcher, as well as a decorated war veteran. He was respected in his field and worked for one of the leading research institutions in Germany. Much of his medical research at Auschwitz supported the work of other German scientists. He was one of dozens of biomedical researchers who conducted experiments on prisoners in Nazi concentration camps.

And he was one of a number of medical professionals who selected victims to be murdered in the gas chambers of Auschwitz. Okay. Mangala acted, listen carefully. Now, it's a sketchy source. Mangala acted within the norms of German science under the Nazi regime. His crimes represent the extreme danger posed by science when it is conducted in the service of an ideology that denies the rights, dignity, and even humanity of certain groups of people. Okay. So they were doing experiments, these doctors, just in the camps. This is late.

They're doing these experiments. And they're doing experiments as physicians on sterilization. how to treat infertility. Also, they were doing drug trials for bear and IG Farben. So bear aspirin, those people, were paying these people for research for new drugs. Okay. Mangala did not actively support the Nazi party before it came to power. However, in 1931, he joined the Stahlheim.

the paramilitary of another right-wing party, the German National People's Party. Mangala became a member of the Nazi SA when it was absorbed into the Stalin in 1933, but he ceased his activity in the Nazi Party in 1934. During his university studies, however, Mangala embraced racial science. What is that, Stu? What is, again, I'm trying to remember, what is the basis of racial science? I don't know. Is there a subtitle of a particular book that might point to that answer? Like favored races or something? I can't think of one. He believed that Germans were biologically different and superior to members of all other races.

Racial science was a fundamental tenant of Nazi ideology. Hitler used racial science to justify the forced sterilization of persons with certain physical mental and physical deformities. The Nuremberg race laws, which outlawed marriage between Germans and Jewish, black, and Romani peoples were also based upon favored races. Just to remind you, this is a very, very expensive book. You keep banging on the table. This is eighth edition. This is still pretty expensive. It is.

In 1938, Mangala joined the Nazi Party and the SS in his work as a scientist. he sought to support the Nazi goal of maintaining and increasing the supposed superiority of the German race. Mangala's employer, not the German Nazis. His employer and mentor, Dr. Virtuer, he was working at a clinic, and I'll tell you the name of that here when I get to the sources. also embraced biological racism. In addition to conducting research, Verschauer and his staff, including Mangala, provided expert opinions to Nazi authorities who had to determine whether a persons were qualified

as a German under the Nuremberg laws. So they were just scientists, and they were getting some funding from the government because their goals matched. And they were getting money from pharmaceutical companies because their goals matched. Not all of them at first. Wasn't one of these things, though, where like all these scientists believe the exact opposite,

Nazis come into power, and then all of a sudden they had to change what they believed. Correct. Was it that type of situation? No, it really wasn't. Really? Scientists in the biomedical fields, especially anthropologist, psychiatrist, geneticist, many of the medically trained experts played a role in legitimizing these policies and helping to implant them.

They'd embrace these ideas before Hitler came to power. Wait, what was that last part? They embraced these ideas before Hitler took to power. And they would welcome the regime because of its support of eugenics and support of their research. Wait, not the other way around. Not the other way around. Isn't that weird? Again, you're sourcing on this.

I think that's an interesting proposal, but like until you hear a source. Yeah, and we can't judge. Well, let me just give you one more thing, okay. Physicians were drawn disproportionately to Nazism due to overcrowding in the profession aggravated by economic depression. And as a backlash to the relatively high proportion of Jews, in the medical practice. So it wasn't just the eugenics doctors.

It was also 11% of the German physician were Jewish. So there's a backlash against that. It was a backlash because they were hungry and desperate. And somebody gave them a reason to say, yeah, get them so I can have mine. now I'm going to take a break because I just want you to just want you to realize what I'm saying here that it is not just the Nazis it's the doctors the doctors had this ideology starting way way back and science was unleashed and promoted by a corrupt ideology.

They both had many of the same goals. The Nazis just took it further than maybe some, some doctors may have wanted. It's the collusion of government, pharmaceutical companies, the world of science and medicine that brought us the Holocaust. The best of the Glenn Bank Programme.

Josh, welcome to the program, sir. How are you? Great. Great to be back. Thank you. We were just talking about this particular leaker. He's not a whistleblower, but I don't think he was trying to hurt the United States. I'm not talking about punishment or anything else. I'm just trying to figure him out. Do you have any insight on that? Any thoughts? Right. I mean, listen, as someone who has been... on the receiving end of leaks for 20 years, there's basically four motivations. One is that you're trying to vanquish your enemy.

One is that you're trying to promote yourself. One is that you're doing it for giggles. And one of it is that you're doing it for money. And it seems based on all the available evidence that he was doing it for his ego, for giggles. That essentially he's a moron. Okay. And it's a sad story because he's 21 years old. He threw his life away.

to be a big shot on a Discord server for a few months. And that's a personal tragedy for him and his family. But I think the point here is that because morons are likely to do moronic things, maybe we shouldn't give access to our top secret information to hundreds of thousands of people who inevitably some will be morons. And so you could blame the moron, sure, but you should also blame the system that let the moron access all. Correct. Correct.

And, you know, all we hear from the administration. is, oh, well, nothing went wrong. Well, nothing went wrong. If nobody takes accountability, then nothing will get fixed. And you can't just say, if you can't just say that nobody made any mistakes, but that's exactly what this administration. But everybody. Then even if somebody didn't make a mistake, I mean, I know they put new traffic lights in

all the time here in Texas. You'll be driving down a street. And there's no traffic light. And all of a sudden, there's a traffic light. Why? Because a lot of people started making mistakes and there were traffic accidents. So nobody made a mistake not putting a light in there in the first place, but once it's exposed as a problem, you change it and put a light in.

Nobody did anything wrong. Well, how about the policies? Because it seems like if he was allowed to do this, he shouldn't be. Right. And you can be sure that now the Massachusetts Air National Guard is going to get cut off from some of this stuff. But to be honest with you, Glenn, I've been, again, 20 years of, dealing with this kind of information leakage, I'm here to tell you this happens all the time.

You go into any office in the Pentagon, you go to any K Street lobbies, you'll find class of, you go into Joe Biden's garage, you go into the Mar-a-Lago party storage room. You're going to find a lot of secrets just laying around. It's just true, okay? And I'm actually surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen every month because of how horribly the handling of this top secret information is done all over our government. Now, that's not to say that there isn't also a parallel. L problem here of over classification, right?

Yes. We're classifying way too much stuff. But then the stuff that's really important to classify, we're not keeping it a secret. So you can have two thoughts in your head. One is that we need to classify less stuff and then take the stuff that's really classified and protect it better. But we're doing neither of those things. So I haven't really heard from anybody that doesn't have an axe to grind one way or

another. Just talk about what he released. Right. What, what, who did this really hurt? What did we really find out? Right. So I put the disclosures into three buckets. One is stuff we shouldn't know.

One is stuff we should have known about. And one is stuff that we already knew about. I'll explain what I mean. Stuff we shouldn't know. Right. When we're spying on top Russian leaders, when we have a mole at the top level of the government of our enemy, that just stay secret. Because once you blurt that out into the world, that guy gets killed.

we lose our source and our country's security stuff. Let me make it very simple for everybody. The first rule here is stuff we shouldn't know. That's the knock list that Tom Cruise protected in Mission Impossible number one. Just saying. Right. All right. So that's bad.

He should not have released that stuff. Then there's the stuff that we should have known about. This is what I reported on, Glenn, that China has tested a new hypersonic missile that can defeat our aircraft carriers and our missile defense. In other words, we spent 30 years building aircraft carriers and missile defense. And the Chinese built a missile for a 100,000th of the price that makes those things obsolete. That seems kind of important for people to know. Why were we hiding that?

That was in the documents. I brought that out. I think there's a lot of stuff in the documents that American people should know because it reveals that the world is changing fast. And our government really isn't on top of it. It does make a difference because usually I would say, hey, we don't need to release everything that they have knowing what they have. But I think there is, you hit it on the head. There is a need for the American people to understand the world is about to dramatically change. And the United States is sitting around with its hands in its pockets.

Right. So maybe we shouldn't build more aircraft carriers and maybe we should build the stuff that fights hypersonic missiles. Yes. Because that's what our enemies are shooting at us. Okay. Correct. So that's one big thing. The third thing is stuff we already knew.

Now this is like, you know, again, Glenn, we should have learned after like five years of like Russia gave that like the intelligence officials when they're predicting the future, they don't really know what the hell they're talking about any more than you or me, right? And they're, but they have to do it. They have to file these analysts reports every day. And then one of them leaks to Congress, like, oh my God, we figured out the future. But nobody knows the future. So we know that they're full of crap, right? So it's sort of like, okay, well, what do they do? They have the thing. The Ukraine War is grinding towards stalemate. Yeah, no, no, yeah. I got it. I got it. I don't know where you're going. Or, or, oh, China has.

China has enough missiles and planes to bury Taiwan under a pile of rubble before they can do it. That was today's story. Taiwan can't defend itself from China. Guess what? That's true. It's obvious. Everyone in China knows it. Everyone in Taiwan knows it.

So the fact that it got leaked from a document by a bunch of analysts who are probably reading the paper doesn't really bother me. So that's the third is like stuff that everybody knows. And I think there is something that, you know, I have no access to secret information, but I think it's it fits into this category. we have no real ability to fight a war with China, especially in Taiwan. We have no ability. We don't have the supply chain. I mean, they could overwhelm us with drones from China. Just knock us out of the sky with drones like crazy.

We're not prepared. So all this talk about a buildup of war with China should be really concerning to the American people when you learn they have missiles like they have hypersonic missiles, and we're not prepared just in a supply line for anything that happens in Taiwan. But nobody's talking about it. Well, Glenn, I 100% agree with you because I was in Taiwan in November, and I went to the front lines of the defenses and I found something that shocked me that the front lines aren't really there, that it doesn't exist.

The Taiwanese know that they can't defend from an invasion. guess what? Our intelligence community knows that we can't defend from a Chinese invasion. And yeah, we're telling ourselves a story in Washington about some sort of fight over Taiwan that doesn't match the reality. Now, there's two things you could do about that. One is you could just admit it and say, okay, well, Taiwan, you guys are on your own. I guess we'll just give all of our summit conductors, you know, to the Chinese and see how that goes. Or you could fix it. In other words, you could give them the stuff that they need to defend themselves and move our stuff closer to Taiwan to make our deterrence, more credible. All right. Now, again, those are two legitimate arguments, but what we're doing is the

worst of both worlds because we're pretending that we can defend Taiwan when we actually know that we can't. And they know we can't. They know we can. And the Chinese know it, right? So they're not deterred. And this is the problem that we made with Putin is we told ourselves that Putin was deterred and he wasn't. And we know he wasn't because he had made it. So what are we going to wait until that happens again? Or are we going to learn that lesson and decide that if we care about these countries and if we're going to make a commitment to defend them. And again, you may say, okay, well, we shouldn't commit that. If we can't back it up, fine. All I'm saying is if we do commit it, then we should back it up. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. We can't bluff our way through and then fold. We have to back it up,

but we're not preparing for any of that. And how far do these missiles fly? And they're hypersonic, which I've just heard last week or the week before that we now have one, but I don't know if I believe that. This is a hypersonic which makes it almost impossible to take down, right? Right. It's hypersonic, which means it flies faster than sound, but it's also a hypersonic glide, which means you can maneuver it. So when we shoot up the missile defense, all we have to do is maneuver around it.

And they can also maneuver it to hit our aircraft carriers, basically as far as Guam. Half the Pacific is now, you know, no entry for our aircraft carriers if they decide to use these things. That's a huge problem for Taiwan, but not just for Taiwan, but the entire South China Sea. They're basically taking over Asia while we're sleeping, okay? And now I'm not saying that we should buy hypersonic missiles to fight hypersonic missiles. I'm saying that we should buy the things or build the things that defend against hypersonic missiles. And so it's complicated, and you have to think ahead of your opponent, but right now they're thinking ahead of us.

And the scenario is that if China, I heard you talk about the timeline, right? The timeline for me is they'll go when they're ready. Yeah. They're not ready. That's why I don't think they can go this year or next year. Sure, they'd rather do it on a Biden watch than on a Republican watch. But they're not ready yet. So if you think about it, they'll probably get ready about three or four years.

That's the best guess. And we don't know who's going to be president then, but that's our timeline to prepare. Oh, that would be a dream come true if that, if that's true. And, you know, my sources tell me that they don't have the landing vehicles to be able to do an invasion like that. They could clearly wipe everything out and defeat us, but they don't have all of the things they would need to really take that island. Is that? Yes, that's right. But there's three things that the Chinese are doing.

One is to prepare the invasion force, which will take three or four years. The second is to prepare economic resiliency. They saw the Putin sanctions and said, not for us. Why do you think they're going around the world changing all of their business agreements out of U.S. dollars? That's because when they attack, they don't want to be sanctioned. So they're actively trying to protect themselves from sanctions. That's number two.

Number three is they're building a thousand new nuclear weapons. Why are they doing that? Why are they building 400 missile silos in the middle of China and then a thousand nuclear warheads? There's only one reason. It's to threaten to attack us if we defend Taiwan. They're building a nuclear deterrent. an economic resilience and an invasion force. And all those things coalesce around 2027. And we don't know

who's going to be president here. We don't know who's going to be president in Taiwan, but we do know who's going to be president in China. That's the president for life, Xi Jinping. And he wants to do this. And he's going to do this one way or the other. In other words, he might not even attack. If he can get us to not care and get the Taiwanese to switch governments to approach China government, then he'll do it without attacking, and he'll just politically and economically. That's actually better for him, but he reserves the right to attack. So we have to prepare for that, but not only focus on the military part, we have to focus on the economic coercion, the political interference, the cyber warfare. This is how the autocrats wage war. You know, it's not just guns and missiles and throwing

recruits at the problem. They're waging a multi-front hybrid warfare, and we're not sophisticated enough to deal with that, but we need. So, Josh, one more question on this China thing, And this is a really, this is probably crazy. But if I were president, I or somebody in the planning room, if there is one anymore, that it would be saying, okay, we've got to do everything we can to get some very high tech, the best of the best chip factories here in America. We've got to do everything we can to attract so we can get that high-end chip making ability happening here in America. as quickly as we can.

And then, honestly, the only thing I would do if they, you know, took Taiwan is, I hate to say this, but I would blow up those chip factories. Because that's really what they want. Right, right. Okay. So, you know, Glenn, I can't lie to your audience. I have to be honest. I just can't help it.

We just took our best chance to build the next generation of semiconductor factories in the United States and we flush it down the toilet. You've heard of this chips bill. It was the first time Congress ever did anything in a bunch of years. And what they did is they spent $50 billion to subsidize the semiconductor industry to build not the latest chips, to build basically the second-tier chips, okay? We got enough of those. We can make those.

I mean, we need those too, but, you know, it doesn't really get at that problem. Now, I saw Tsying Wen, the president of Taiwan, when she was in town, and they asked her, okay, well, you guys make the best chips. Can we make them here? And she said, listen, it's not possible because we spent 40 years. is setting up the supply line in the factories. And you can't just pick up all of that stuff and just move it across the world.

It doesn't work that way. And we just tried to make this big investment and we didn't do it. It was a big payoff to these industries who, by the way, are taking separate money and going to build chip factories in China because they also do business in China too. So it's kind of a taxpayer subsidy

that's being funneled out of the country. But that's a separate issue. What I'm trying to say, to answer your question directly, is that, you know, if China takes Taiwan with those chip factories, then they will control the world economy for the next, let's say, 20 years. Now, if they blow up the group, then you don't forget about your next generation robotics, your cars, everything. But so that's not really a good solution.

But yes, I do think that if the attack is coming, that will be the choice. And to be honest with you, it's up to the Taiwanese. And the Taiwanese I thought would rather not blow up their economy. And they would actually rather be subjugated to Beijing than to be, have no economy at all. And that's the, again, a reality that we don't like to talk about in Washington thing because we like to tell ourselves. Everything's fine. Everything's not fine. The only real way to save our economy, not starve our businesses of the next generation technology is to prevent China from attacking Taiwan. And the only way to do that is by upping the deterrence. And that's

why we have to be serious about defending Taiwan, not just about talking about it. That's my view. You may disagree that's my view, okay, because all the alternatives are disastrous. We don't want China and control of Taiwan. That's a disaster for our economy, for our core interest. And if we blow up the economy, well, that's kind of a nightmare scenario as well. So why don't we just do what we say we're doing, which is beyond Taiwan side to defend them from getting attacked for no reason, you know, because... Wait, I don't think I understand. Wait, you mean like let your yes be yes and your no-be-no? Do what you say and say what you mean and mean what you say. Wow, I don't... That would be a revolution in American farm politics.

I haven't been 25 years. I don't know about you. But why don't we try it just for once? I know, but the other is working so well, Josh. It's working so well. It's just crazy. Josh, thank you so much. I appreciate all your analysis and your hard work.

Josh Rogan, the name of his book is Chaos Under Heaven, and it talks all about China and what we're really facing. Josh Rogan, you can follow him. He is a columnist for The Washington Post.