The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guest: Mary Harrington | 6/2/23
Episode Date: June 2, 2023"Feminism Against Progress" author Mary Harrington joins to discuss how the liberal elites and transgender activists have co-opted feminism. Leftists are trying to broaden white supremacy to all races..., including Hispanics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Here's the podcast.
You're listening to The Best of the Glenback program.
Contributing editor for Unheard.
She is the author of Feminism Against Progress.
She used to be known as Sebastian.
Her name is Mary Harrington.
Welcome, Mary. How are you?
I'm very well, thank you.
How are you?
I am good.
I don't even remember where you were speaking.
speaking, but I saw a clip of you online, and you're very clear and clarified, and you have a lot of fans in my producing staff as well. So thank you for coming on.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So I started with what you said 15 years ago. I was living in a queer commune, calling myself Sebastian, spent hours on the message boards, angrily defending the queer theory belief that gender is a woman.
performance. Now, you are being cancelled for being honest about the differences between
male and female. Why are you no longer Sebastian? What happened? It was kind of a thought
experiment changing my name to Sebastian. I wanted to see what it would be like. And it turned
out that I just didn't really like it very much. I didn't like, it felt, it felt like I, it felt
too big of an ask in the end to, to say to my friends, to say to my family more than anything, that I,
this name that you've known me by and this person who you always thought I was,
that's not who I am anymore and I want you to call me something different.
That just felt like I didn't have the right to ask that.
And it honestly just made me uncomfortable.
I know that there are people who don't take that.
There are great many more people who don't take that view now.
But that was just where I got to with it.
And also I just didn't really want to be a dude.
You know, I kind of felt I wasn't really sure,
I wasn't really sure that I wanted to be a woman at the time
because that seemed to come with a whole lot of downsides.
but as it was kind of an it was an experiment to see what it felt like and then in the end I I
backtracked I walked back Sebastian fairly quickly and went by Sebastian Mary for a while which I still
kind of like I mean it's just a best of Mary have a nice feel to it yeah sure and you know I wore my
hair short and I wore you know whatever whatever clothes I wore and I was kind of a I was experimental
about everything when I was 20 something how so many people are I guess but in the end I fell off the wagon I just I just I
realized it just wasn't making me happy.
And I don't know, I don't think I figured that out.
It wasn't like I work up one day and was like, actually this all sucks and I'm going
to become a reactionary.
It didn't happen that quickly.
So it was like, um, like my whole life sort of fell apart in 2008 because the startup I was,
I founded, came to pieces and it was partly my fault.
And I ended up just, I lost my whole circle of friends.
It's like, I don't know if you've ever had a business fail underneath you, but it's like
getting divorced.
Oh, yeah.
No, it's really messes with your mind.
Yeah.
But it's the bet when you fail in whatever, it's the only time you eventually look back and say,
that's when I really grew.
So if you could make it through it.
It was a world changing, just a properly life changing moment for me,
because it really threw into relief a lot of the things which I,
a lot of the beliefs that I based what I was doing on.
And a lot of those beliefs really were, I guess you would call them woke now,
although that wasn't what they were called then, but I was pretty woke about everything.
and I really kind of followed through on all of it.
You know, I just didn't really want, I didn't really want any hierarchy or any boundaries or any, any structure to anything really.
And inevitably, that meant I had a very anarchic, unstructured, unboundary life, which is just not very nice, especially as you get older.
So, and I began to realize I was lonely, and I was, and, you know, I was getting older, and I still, I still, I still had no money.
And I didn't really know where I was going to be living from one, one year to the next.
And it just wasn't very nice.
And it was sheer luck, really, that, I mean, I remember my grandmother gave me some advice.
We were very close.
She was a wonderful, very wise woman, my grandmother.
She's been a farmer and a doctor, and she was pretty tough.
And she looked at me one day when I went to visit her, and she said, you know what, Mary,
I think you should grow your hair and get married.
And I was like, whoa, because at the time I wore my hair extremely short,
and I was living in queer communes and just really very, very, very, very, some distance from getting,
growing my hair and getting married.
But I guess it must have stuck in my mind, because as it says,
out it was really good advice.
As it turns out, looking normal gives you a lot more freedom to be whoever you are.
And being married, actually, as it turns out, gave me a lot more freedom to be who I am.
So that is my discovery with religion when it is understood and put in its proper place.
That, you know, for me, there is my relationship with God.
and then there's my religion which I choose that has the framework that helps me be a better person.
And for me, a more structured system, the better for me, because I have found now that freedom really can come from just playing by the rules.
It's a lot easier.
but some people would say that you're selling out to the system.
Well, I don't know.
I think it's just much more than it.
It's very difficult to be creative if you don't have any boundaries.
I mean, I'll give you a very recent example.
It's a very, very tiny example.
You know, there are a whole lot, there are lots of people, particularly women, who are afraid.
But if they have kids, they'll end up tied down and they won't be able to do anything self-expressive.
So I only have one child because I started fairly late.
And my husband, I had to work, it's half term, which is a week of school holidays at the moment here.
And at the beginning of the week, my husband took our daughter up to visit the in-laws.
I had to stay here and work.
And I thought, oh, okay.
So I'll get all of my work done in one day and then I'll do whatever the next day or I'll do a whole lot of other things.
And as it turned out, I did not get all of my work done in one day.
I did exactly the same amount of work, Glenn, as I would have done if I'd been working during school hours.
I just spent the rest of the time facking around.
as it turns out
as it turns out the boundary
you know although sometimes I think
I have to I'm in the middle of something
I don't want to have to put it down
to go and collect my daughter and do dumb stuff
but as it turns out if I don't have that boundary
I don't get any more done
and I'm just wandering around feeling
bored and lonely and it really
took me back to being 25
and having no constraints on my time
and just not really getting a whole lot done
and it made me realise to actually the
the the constraints
which I, the beneficial, you know, healthy, life-giving, life-affirming and loving constraints that my family imposes on me.
They're not an obstacle to my creative work now.
They're the basic enabling conditions and I can't do anything that I do without that.
So, Mary, we have, we have.
And I think you could generalise back to a face as well.
You know, you put those constraints on yourself and they allow you to flourish.
I think that's very true.
We have, we see things now, I think, as a choice.
And when my mom and dad got married in the 1950s, and my mom was, you know, in her 20s and early 20s.
And so when the 60s came around, she was too old for the burn your bra thing.
She was not of the hippie generation.
But she also didn't want to be a part of the 1950s stay at home.
She was very creative, everything else.
And she ended up in suicide and massive drug abuse because people, doctors used to write prescriptions.
Oh, you're sad.
Okay.
Take this.
You'll be fine.
And I think that's the way we look at things.
It's either you are, you can do everything.
You are a man if you want to be.
Or you're going to be taken Valium at home.
with the kids and you've got no life except this, you know, slavery kind of housewife kind of life.
It's, those are both bogus, aren't they?
Uh-huh.
Well, I mean, I've, I've, I've never met a stay-at-home mom who just spends all of her time, like, vacuuming and, and making them.
You know, they, I've, those women don't, I mean, if they exist, I've never, maybe they exist.
I don't know, Glenn, but I've never met one.
The stay-at-home moms who I know, they organize groups, they hang out with one another, you know, they get stuff done.
I mean, back in the 19th century, bourgeois housewives were pretty much around the world.
I mean, there's an amazing history.
My great friend Erica Bakuyoki recently wrote a history of women's organizing in 19th century America.
And just how extensive and how networks and how effective these women were.
at bringing about social change, you know, on a huge range of, huge range of important issues.
A lot of them had, you know, they were issues of faith or they were issues of temperance,
or they were issues of, you know, looking after the poor or the needy or whatever.
You know, these are women who've got things done,
and the fact that they weren't drawing a salary directly for doing it is neither here nor there.
You know, there are great many ways to be a part of the larger social fabrics
than just kind of turning up in an office and drawing down a salary.
I think there's something very limited and very narrow-minded about thinking about it,
thinking about it in that way.
And I think it's a tough, it's a tough time now, especially for those women who really do want to be mothers,
because a lot of them end up having to work more than they would like to,
because that flexibility just isn't there.
And I can think of a great many women who bite your arm off at the opportunity to be a stay-at-home mom
or even just to work a bit more flexibility.
And it's, yeah, and we've ended up with less choice in some other ways.
I think also just to not be looked down on.
I mean, I think one of the worst things that women say, I'm just a housewife.
I'm just a mom.
What do you mean?
You're just a mom.
What does that mean?
And that's because we look down on it.
What did you say?
I'm a stay at her mom.
And every stay at home mom I've ever met, including me, will recognize the, but you go to a party and somebody asks, so what do you do?
And you say, well, I'm a mom.
And you can see they're already looking over your shoulder for somebody more interesting to talk to.
Every state at home I've ever met will recognize that.
But I'll tell you something else.
You get it worse from liberals than you do from conservatives.
You're much more likely in a relatively conservative social people to have the work that you do acknowledged and respected and responded to in a respectful way than you are amongst progressive, no matter how much lip service they pay to liberalism and to women having choice.
In fact, what the reality is that in terms of that moral hierarchy, the choice to be a mom is nowhere.
This is the best of the Glenn Beck program. And don't forget, rate us on iTunes.
Talking to Mary Harrington, who believes the feminism of freedom and the feminism of care are the twin poles of the women's movement from the mid to the late 18th century onward.
She says, feminism of freedom and the feminism of care started really kind of going to war with each other because women were rightly quite conflicted.
We need more freedom of movement.
This new world seems premised on the idea that everyone is a free individual and we can be our own self in the market.
That's what freedom is.
Why can't we have that?
Then, of course, you had the other side because we're women and we're mothers.
We have children.
You have a baby.
You have a six-year-old.
know what it's like to be needed. So women argued from that experience of motherhood, it's not so
simple. We need to have this recognized and taken into account. She says the feminist of freedom won
out over the feminism of care when contraception and abortion were legalized. This is where we get
the cyborg or transhumanism. Mary joins us again.
Mary, can you take us through that part of this?
Sure. I mean, my argument is essentially that feminism, as such, ended in the 1960s,
and that we should think of the sexual revolution, not as the sexual revolution,
but the transhumanist revolution.
We are 50 years and more and counting into the transhumanist revolution,
and that what marches under the banner of feminism now is more,
we should think of it more as a kind of libertarianism of the body,
which is to say a belief that we should be free to do whatever,
we want with our bodies and we should be constrained in no way by any aspect of our bodies,
including our sex, including whether we're born male or female. That should not limit us
in any way at all. Yeah, I was just talking to a really brilliant guy yesterday, Spencer Claven,
and he said, trans people is really the beginning of the end, because it's going, that's all
transhumanism. You control with technology. You control what you are. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that began
with the contraceptive pill. Because if you think about it, the pill was the first medical technology that didn't
set out to fix something that was broken. Like if I broken my wrist, then, oh, I go see a doctor. The doctor gives me
pain meds and spints my arm and I'm better again. But that assumes like, but what the pill does
is the opposite of that. Or at least it's very different to that. The pill breaks something.
which is working just fine, which is normal female fertility.
And it does so in the name of personal freedom.
It does so in order to grant women the freedom to have sex
without dealing with unexpected pregnancies or undesired pregnancies, I should say.
A pregnancy under those certain, you know, if you have sex, you should expect normally to get pregnant.
And the pill, but the pill breaks that, and it does so in the name of freedom.
And there have been lots of benefits to that.
You know, it allowed a huge number of women to plan their lives in a way which
it hadn't been easily possible before.
So a lot of women went to college and got jobs.
And, I mean, I participated in public life in a way which was much more difficult previously.
But it also came with some unexpected costs.
My great friend Louise Perry has written a great deal about the downsides of the sexual.
One of the unexpected effects of the pill was that it didn't prevent unexpected pregnancies.
nearly as much as people thought it would.
Because although fewer pregnancies were happening
relative to the number of people who were having sex,
there were so many more people having casual sex because they could,
where of unplanned pregnancies went up.
And that created a pressure to legalise abortion.
And I mean, we've been talking about the feminism of freedom
and the feminism of care.
And, you know, a bunch of women who wanted to say,
women's interests are about our relationships and our bodies
and our children and our families.
And another bunch of freedom was saying, women's interests are about defending our right to do whatever we want to do, just in the same terms as men.
So that's very crudely the two sides of that argument.
And it's very different, you know, wherever you stand on abortion, it's very hard to think of a clearer way of saying freedom matters more than care than to say my freedom is so important that I will defend it even at the cost of a potential human life.
But that results totally reliance on my body.
Let me go to the trans argument that is happening all over the world right now.
And I think we are ahead of you or behind you, I guess, because I think you guys are actually starting to come out of this already.
And, you know, turfs are just a horrible thing.
However, it seems as though, and I think this really is in large part due to you, that the turfs are,
winning in Great Britain. Is that true? And what did you do to change the tide over there that
America can do? Well, we've definitely, we've had some successes. That's definitely true. I'm a
long way from declaring it a victory. I think I'd be a little bit like George Bush when he was
standing there on that, on that tip. I'm saying, we won, we won, guys, we can all go home.
I think it's too early to say that we've won
and we really are just into the foothills
of something here.
But if there's something that the task did,
I mean,
the British situation's very different
to the American one anyway
because culturally,
we're just kind of,
I think we're just more pessimistic in Britain
about being who are being who you want to be.
You know,
that's pretty baked into the American way of looking at things.
Yes.
People should be able to be who they want to be.
Correct.
And so I can see, like,
that plugs fairly obviously into what's going on with the trans thing.
Why shouldn't these people be who they want to be,
even if that means imagining their bodies are meat Legos
and they can rearrange them as they want?
And I think Brits are just a little bit more pessimistic about that.
We're also better organized because we had Momsnet,
which is a discussion forum for months.
And a lot of the very early organizing to push back against gender ideology
began on Mumsnet.
And since spun out into,
into campaigning institutions.
And I think if there have been concrete successes in Britain,
it's been in realizing that actually where the battle is fought is not,
it's not in the media culture war.
That stuff is noisy, but it doesn't really do bring,
it doesn't move the needle.
And actually what you need to do is build institutions
and you need to lean on the levers of power,
which are NGOs these days.
You know, most real power flows through NGOs
and happens prior to voting in the world as it is now.
And I think in as much, I mean, I don't track American politics super closely, but, you know, where things cross my radar that look as though they're moving the needle in a similar way, it's, for example, the Mums for Liberty movement on school choice, which, which to me has some of the same character, I mean, with American characteristics and much more American style, slightly different priorities. But I see, I see that as being, you know, they're getting, they're getting their members on school boards and they're, and they're leaning.
on the actual levers of power.
They aren't just writing angry think pieces and then looking surprised when nothing changes.
They're showing up and they're doing politics.
And as a result, you know, they're, it's not, you know, they're moving the needle.
And that's, and I guess that's how it has to work.
You know, if you're going to, if you want to affect change, you have to show up.
Are you?
And you have to show up where it matters.
We are seeing things, you know, gender mutilation on children and everything else.
we are behind you on you are having more success of stopping that over in uh great britain than we are
um but people are waking up but it is it's absolute evil what is what is happening right now um
are you are you uh optimistic or pessimistic uh here on how this all works out are we in for a very
long battle or we lose or it's going to be a bumpy
ride, I think. It's going to be a bumpy ride. I think it's going to be a bit of both, to be
honest. I think the thirsts will win on pediatric gender, I think where a friend of mine calls it
genital lobotomies. I don't think, I think that will stop because the negative side effects
are so obvious and sooner or later there's just going to be such a cascade of losses that
it's going to, and so many, you know, the number of, the number of brutalized adults who just,
who are brutalized, angry young adults will just get so big, but it will stop.
But I think that if you view the gender movement as a kind of spearhead for a wider transhumanist,
the onward march of biotech into our bodies,
I think if we imagine that if we claim victory just because they stop doing gender lobotomotomies on children,
then when we're not paying attention.
Yes.
Because the stuff which is coming down the line is in vitro gametogenesis and three parents,
three parent embryos.
and, you know, there are experimental surgeries which splice people with bits of animal and genetically engineering pigs so that they can grow human organs for the transplant industry and a whole bunch of other stuff.
You know, it just gets more and more baroque and more and more disturbing.
And that's, yeah, and it's very easy to argue the conservative case against creating monsters,
but it's very much harder to argue the conservative case against creating supermen.
And I think that's an argument which we haven't even begun to have yet.
and people are already trying to do it.
Mary, thank you so much for everything.
Say hi to Sebastian if you ever see him.
It's been such a pleasure just talking to you.
Thank you for having you.
Thank you.
Mary Harrington, the book that she wrote is feminism against progress.
And she is a contributing editor for Unheard.
And you follow her at reactionaryfeminist.com.
You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.
You know, there's a story out today.
It's in our free show prep at Glenn Bex.
dot com about why this bud light thing is really working and that's because people are buying it at the
bars and if you if you ask for a bud light in some of these bars people are just harassing you
they're like oh really and that's really how you do it you just don't do that with your wife at
Target no well if you want to say married you certainly don't do right if you don't want to
stay married do it a lot a lot yeah
The quote from is Marina Cafe in Great Kills on Staten Island.
They said not only did the sales of Bud Light tank two months ago,
but the rare partakers of the product these days find themselves reamed by fellow patrons.
Again, like, you would go in there enjoy a beer.
Even if you like Bud Light, you just don't want to get in the middle.
It's just so much easier, though.
Like my wife came home the other day, and I don't know.
She needed to buy a blouse for my daughter and hamburger meat and a candle.
I don't know.
And she was like, I wasn't running a three-story.
stores today. I don't have time.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I just think this is poor planning.
You knew you needed that candle a long time ago, sister.
You're going on vacation.
What do you need a candle for?
When you're gone, I'm romancing somebody.
Anyway, so the, it's just hard because that just breaks your day up.
And you've got to, it's, bud light is easy.
Pull that one or pull that one.
Yeah.
I don't want that one.
Bore glass of that.
The easy substitute is such a key part of this.
Yeah, it is.
And I think, too, there's just that level of, you know,
you have to make it so you're not ruining your own life because of their bad decisions.
And that's tough to do.
Let me ask you.
Do you think this is why Hispanics are becoming white supremacists?
Are they?
Oh, well, the rise of Latino white supremacy, it's, I mean, it's right here in black and white.
What is this, Vanity Fair?
Oh, well, the New Yorker.
Even better.
They're smarter.
They have cartoons you don't know.
Nobody understands.
Even the people who draw them don't understand them.
Right.
So they've got to be right.
And maybe it's because, you know, they go for that high thread count sheet and they can't
get them in Target anymore.
So they're like, where are we going to go?
I don't know.
So the high thread count sheet for the clan's outfits.
Well, they might not really agree with everything, but they want the sheets.
You know?
Okay.
So it's not an ideological affinity to the clan.
It's the just comfort of nice thread counts?
I don't know.
I just know that the New Yorker has a whole piece out about how we are now, you know, seeing the rise of Hispanic white supremacy.
Because I've noticed that they call Hispanics brown, which I really hate that term.
I don't know why.
Brown peoples.
And they'll call them brown peoples as if black and brown and then they'll call brown peoples, people of color.
All these really weird...
I have color in my face.
It's just pig, pink.
Everyone has it.
Everyone's got some color.
No one's actually white.
I don't know if anyone's noticed this.
Maybe a few exceptions.
But I always find this to be interesting is that when they want to claim Hispanics as their own,
they're people of color.
But now they can also be white and white supremacists.
They stop being colorful.
Right.
They're no longer POCs at that point.
No, because they're not agreeing.
And there are some people that they have found that are, you know, have racist Nazi tattoos.
Now, I just don't understand that.
I mean, I think this is, this might be a case of you're either really stupid if you're just,
I want to get a Nazi tattoo and you're any other color than pig pink.
Okay, because Nazis don't like color.
In fact, the ideal color is like spooky-ass white with blue eyes, okay?
The kinds that you're like to look at and like, I think they're half wolf.
That's the ideal, okay, I guess.
And you're not that.
So they're going to figure that out at some point.
So I don't know how that works.
I mean, I guess you could be a non-white, a non-white supremacist.
Are you just relating this to?
Fascism generally.
So here's what they're saying.
This article is crazy.
But they say,
they say that,
look,
the Hispanics know that they have to be more white
and act more white if they want to be successful.
And so they're just acting white.
And they're just saying,
hey,
we,
we want to be white so badly and be accepted by the white people that we'll join
the clan.
I got news for you,
man.
You're wearing a sheet.
a lot of white people are not going to like you.
The overwhelming majority are going to think you're insane.
Just so you know.
Right.
And not because do you not look in the mirror or do you not listen at meetings?
Because that's nuts.
Yeah.
But whether you're white or black or any other color, your acceptance and membership in the KKK automatically makes you insane.
Yeah, I agree.
But I tell you, they're pushing it.
They are pushing it.
These Hispanics are pushing white supremacy.
Are they? Like, oh, crazy.
Stu.
It's not just because of Target.
Just the New Yorker article?
No.
Well, you know I'm a big fan of Maria and Teresa.
Oh.
Yeah, the telenovela?
Yeah, they're great.
I watch them all the time.
Do you?
Yeah, I do.
I do.
I don't think I realized that.
You know, but I was watching the other day, and I was watching,
Teresa. And there was a scene with Teresa and Pablo. And all of a sudden, they start talking about
white supremacy. And I'm like, wait a minute. What? And Teresa was not happy. Sorry, Teresa was
not happy about it. I didn't know you spoke Spanish. Hmm? I didn't even know you spoke Spanish.
How do you? Well, may I? Because I brought the, I brought the clip in. And I'll translate it for you.
You speak Spanish?
I don't know.
Okay, good.
So let me just, let me translate what happened on Teresa.
Okay?
Teresa just found Pablo wandering the streets.
Stop, stop, stop, not yet.
Teresa is, I'm trying to set this up.
This is complex stuff.
Sure.
Teresa just found Pablo wandering the streets of Mejillo.
Wow, you do that very well.
Thank you.
You do speak Spanish.
Yeah, I do.
I do, I do.
And she realizes something's wrong with Pablo.
Okay?
Now, go ahead.
What is wrong with you, Pablo?
You look like you see the ghost.
I know what it is.
I saw you last night walking around town with those angry looking men wearing bed sheets and carrying crowses.
Will it crosses it midnight, Teresa.
Have you never heard of the Ku Klux Klan?
See?
I have.
But it doesn't really make any sense to me.
They're white supremacist.
Why would they accept a Hispanic man like you?
They know you're not white, don't they?
You're not white.
They know I love the white race, Teresa.
What?
Like Hitler.
Like Hitler, what do you mean?
Well, he was a brunette.
But he knew blondes were better.
So just like him, I'm a Hispanic.
But I wish I was white.
Right?
Yes, see, see, see, see.
Yes, it's true, I believe that, but...
Why would you join those blanket-wearing men?
They're freaks.
Teresa, we are not freaks.
The clan is so old-fashioned.
No?
You're better than that.
Any Hispanic white supremacist worth his salt would only join the Patriot Front.
Their uniforms are actually stylish.
And they're definitely not fash.
I guess I was wrong about you, Pablo.
You will never be white.
Never be white.
Wow, that was dramatic.
Yeah, it was crazy.
And it just spilled out my living room the other day.
Wow.
See, I didn't know.
And I'm not a, I say, no, I don't speak Spanish.
But wouldn't the name Hitler just translate as Hitler?
I didn't hear Hitler.
Spanish is very strange.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
You know, it's like, see.
And yes.
Totally different.
No, I know.
Okay.
I know that's how language works in translation, but like names usually stay the same.
Not in Mexico.
Okay.
A lot of them change their names.
A lot of them.
Well, I mean, that did explain the phenomenon of white supremacist Hispanics pretty well.
They're pushing it hard.
They're pushing it hard.
They really are.
Yeah, that damn telemundo.
Damn.
Well, there it is.
You've got the truth finally.
You need to do a new podcast on just,
I'm going to do it in Spanish.
They did those succession recaps.
The what?
You know like succession, the show that just ended.
They do like a daily or weekly podcast on reviewing what happened.
You could do that for these telenovela.
In Spanish, of course.
We could do that.
Yeah.
We could do that.
Would you like me too?
I get back.
Sure.
Yeah, we'll just tape a few episodes and then I'll come and translate them.
Will you be able to keep up with it on your vacation?
Will you still watch them?
You don't want to miss any developments.
Oh.
I can watch.
those things, you know, all the time.
Okay.
All the time.
Especially Maria.
Maria.
Maria.
Maria.
The night on Maria.
