The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guest: Michael Iskander | 11/14/25

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Glenn reacts to a recent Tucker Carlson statement on Dietrich Bonhoeffer, addressing his conflicting views on pacifism and the elimination of a grave evil. Glenn and Stu discuss the dangers of a digital ID after Apple announced a digital ID system made for traveling. Michael Iskander, who portrays David in Amazon’s "House of David" series, joins to discuss the elements it takes to be a great leader.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stu, today was my day. It was. Today was my day. Big day for Glenn. Yeah, yeah. It was my Bonhofer moment. Yeah, I got to shine. I got to shine.

You don't want to miss today's show. It's a lot of fun and a lot of information. Also, Apple unveils their new digital ID. Hooray, the Savior is here. Be careful with that one. Also, speaking of the Savior, how about the House of David? It premieres Sunday. We have the guy who played David and plays David.

You haven't seen this show on, what is it, Prime Video? You need to. is really, really good, and I think you're really going to enjoy meeting David all on today's podcast. Every month, the bills roll in like clockwork, mortgage, credit cards, car payment. By the time you're done paying them, you're usually left with a dusty wallet. You work hard, everything you do. You do right. You try to, and yet the numbers never seem to move in your favor.

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You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program. I'll ring this up. A podcast yesterday I listened to, or a couple of days ago, whenever it came out. I listened to it yesterday. And the reason why I listened to it is because so many friends were like, he's talking about Dietrich Bonhoffer, Glenn, blah, la, la, la. And I don't want to get in. I'm not going to talk about personalities.

I just want to talk about facts. You draw your own conclusion about who you listen to, and you can listen to them or not listen to them. That's fine. But let's make sure we correct facts and not make it about personalities. Okay. Dietrich Bonhoeffer is one of my heroes. Dietrich Bonhofer is one of the greatest men to ever live. Dietrich Bonhofer is a Christian pastor.

And let me set it up this way. When the Third Reich grew and the Weimar Republic collapsed, there was this movement in Christianity that happened quickly. Within the first year of the end of the Weimar and the beginning of the Nazi regime, within a year, 60% of the churches ridded themselves of everything Jewish, Okay. Now, that's hard to do when your main hero figure is a Jew and the entire history that said, hey, he's coming, is also written by Jews. Okay. It's the Old Testament. And by the way, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were Jews too. So it's hard to rinse the Jew out of the Judeo-Christian world. But somehow,

or another, they did it. 60%. Okay. They've gotten rid of including many churches already had gone for it and gotten rid of the Old Testament. That is something that Hitler's people were really pushing for, get rid of the Old Testament. Well, you don't have nothing left if you don't have the Old Testament with the New Testament. So the world had gone insane. The Christian world had gone insane. Within six months, Many, if not most of the churches, had replaced the picture of Christ on the altar with a picture of Adolf Hitler. So he changed the fabric of Christianity entirely, and he was going after any pastor, priest, anybody who was preaching something different. There were a couple of pastors. One played along with it at first, Pastor Niemuller.

and he's like the first they came for this and I didn't say anything and then they came for this and he didn't say anything at first and then he then he got it and he's like oh I shouldn't do it but he was praised in the end for his unwavering faith he actually stood um and he actually he was one of the guys who preached that the Nazis were not to blame alone They played their role. But may I quote, would the Nazis have been able to do what they had done if church members had been truly faithful Christians?

The answer is no. Truly faithful. Now, Tucker said yesterday that he doesn't think that Bonhofer was, I don't remember the exact lines. I'll probably get it wrong. Do we have it? Okay, go ahead and play it. Because once you start calling people Nazis,

we really have no choice but to start shooting them to be Dietrich Bonhofer and sort of, reached the end of reason or even Christianity. Bonhofer decided Christianity's not even, he's a Lutheran pastor. Christianity's not enough. We have to kill the guy. Not judging Bonhofer who was a great man in some ways, but that's inevitable once we decide that people are Nazis. Okay. So his point here he's making about, you know, we got to stop calling people my Nazis. And he's absolutely right on it. You got to stop talking about people, calling people Nazis or shooting begins. Exactly right. Unless they are actual.

Nazis. You know what I mean? There's, I mean, there's, I mean, there's a difference between saying, hey, we should not call people Nazis who are not Nazis. And Dietrich Bonhofer shouldn't have called Hitler a Nazi. He was the, I mean, he's like, he's the idyllic Nazi. He's the king of all Nazis. He's a Nazi. So when it is a Nazi, I think you can call people Nazis. But yeah, that does require you then to make a choice. And that's where Bonhofer found himself. This guy was an amazing man. He was a pacifist. He did not believe in war. He did not believe in killing. And that's how he skated for a long time because he was saying, quiet, quiet, quiet, nope, nope, do not involve yourself in this. God does not want us to kill each other. He was a huge pacifist.

His story goes back and forth. You've got to read the Bonhofer book if you haven't read it by Eric Metaxus. But he goes back and forth. He comes to the United States. He sees faith in action, actually in Harlem and kind of has this renewed kind of faith experience. He goes back to Germany. He's there for a while. He knows now that Hitler is, because he's helping Jews escape, and he knows Hitler is on him, and he's closing in on him, he's going to get him. He leaves.

He comes to the United States. He's here, and he starts feeling guilty. He's like, I can't leave my own country. I mean, I can't, I got to say. stand. I can't leave and hide. I've got to stand. So he goes back to Germany. I think on the last boat that is going into Germany. And he gets to Germany and he starts plotting Valkyrie. He's part of Project Valkyrie. Valky is the Tom Cruise movie you've seen von Schafenberg, a huge German hero who was not a Nazi, but he was a German soldier who decided, well, this has got to stop.

And they planned with a lot of people who said, we got to stop Hitler because look what he's doing. He's destroying everything. And he's killing millions and it's got to stop. And Bonhofer, when he got back, he was wrestling with his pacifism because he was a pacifist, a strong one. And he really believed that God said, no, no fighting, no war, nothing. You're not allowed to kill. But the evil that he saw was so overwhelming that he started questioning everything he believed. And in his class, because he was teaching these young pastors coming up, in his class,

he started saying things to the class members. So if a pacifist saw something that was so evil, you needed to stop it, would it be okay? And then they would argue. And the class didn't have any idea. He was working it out with the class in his own head. He's working out, how do I work this? How can I, am I a Christian if I do this? He got to the point to where he was even saying, so if you knew of a pacifist that you really

respected and they did get involved in that, would you? still be their friend. Would you still respect them? Are they still Christians? He's looking to work this out and he struggled with it. Hitler grabs him, puts him in prison. He's in prison for a long time. And the only reason why he survived as long as he did is he came from a very famous family. And so Hitler really didn't feel he had the juice to kill him without causing all kinds of other problems. so he let him skate for a little while, but he was in prison, and he wrote some beautiful stuff. One of the most beautiful homilies on marriage that I've ever read is from him. He was a guy who didn't get married, he was going to get married, but knew what was going to

happen to him so he didn't want to endanger her, so he didn't get married. So he didn't know anything about marriage, except, you know, what he had read and what he had thought about and what he had read in scriptures. And he writes this beautiful homily because he's supposed to. to give the sermon at his sister's wedding. The Nazis won't let him out to do that. And so he writes it and it's red at her wedding. And it is absolutely beautiful.

And deep, deep, deep. He's in prison for a while. He's now, it's, you know, coming up to April, 1945. Hitler dies in April, 1945. And everything's falling apart. And so the Nazis start kind of cleaning up the death camps. and they start transferring people. And Bonhofer is supposed to be let free.

And he gets onto this bus, you know, driven by the Nazis, and he's being transferred to where he will be released. Well, on the way, the tire goes out and they don't have a spare. And so they're sitting on the edge of the road. And they got all these prisoners. And this other bus is coming the other direction. And they're like, hey, where are you going? They say, well, we're going to this camp.

great, would you just take these prisoners with you? Here's the paperwork and everything else. Here's the prisoners. You just take them with you. So all the prisoners that were there, including Bonhofer, who was supposed to be released, go to this other death camp. And now he's sitting there on this death camp and waiting for death and not supposed to be. And in that, he is preaching Christ to the guy who did all of the experiments. on the Jews, you know, freezing them, bringing them up in high altitude until their heads pop,

all the horrible experiments. Everything that is now in every hospital in the world, the book about hypothermia and everything else, it's the, it's the number one book on what the human body can do and how you fix thing. Number one, it's in every hospital. Every doctor has it. That was written by that Nazi. He released it without Hitler's permission because he thought it was such a gift to the world.

And he went to prison because Hitler said, we're not trying to save the world. We're saving German soldiers. puts him in prison. The guy is a vile guy, as you can imagine. He's in with, I think, a French spy, this woman, she was a double agent. And so they're in with this cell with Dietrich Bonhofer. And he's preaching to them. and they're just vile with each other in front of him.

Keeps his cool, keeps who he is, comes up to a couple of weeks before Hitler is going to kill himself, and they come and they're going to execute everybody in that cell. And so they go out. And the only reason why we know how Dietrich Bonhoeffer died and when he died is because of the way he acted. He went out, they took him out to the woods, and they had built a, hanging platform. And one by one, they brought them up, put the noose around their neck, trapdoor, they died. Cut him down.

Next one, bring him up. Put the noose around their neck. Trapped door opens, they die. Bonhofer, when he comes up, he comes up to the platform, and the guy who's putting the noose around his neck, he says something like, thank you for your kindness. Okay. And the guy is like, what? everybody else is freaking out, everybody else is, you know, and he says,

thank you for your kindness. He tightens the noose, pulls the trapdoor dead. He remembers that one guy and remembers that was Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I don't know if he knew who Dietrich Bonhofer was at the time, but he knew him because of that thank you. He died like a very valiant man, okay? in a way, I don't know if I could. What is the difference between when you confront evil, when you see evil?

I mean, Dietrich Bonhofer is the guy who said, silence in the face of evil is evil itself. God will not hold us blameless. Not to act is to act. That comes from a deep, deep spiritual place. What is the difference between that and Thomas Jefferson? saying, rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Do you as a Christian have a responsibility to kill Hitler if you had the opportunity with not baby Hitler?

Baby Hitler hasn't committed any crime. You're seeing this death machine and you've tried everything you can to stop it. Do you have a responsibility as a Christian to stop the evil? I think you do. I think silence in the face of evil is evil itself. Not to act is to act. You know, for evil to happen, it'll happen when good men do nothing. We know that.

We have a responsibility to act. But we have a responsibility to do everything Christ-like that we can first. but you get into this place to where, you know, woe unto those who call evil good and good evil. Everybody starts to confuse the language, right? And that's what's happening right now. Everybody's calling everybody a fascist or Hitler. Everybody calls everybody a Nazi. And so there's no meaning on words.

We can't forget what words actually mean. Or we will wind up calling good evil and evil good. That's what happened to so many Christians. They did nothing. They just went along with it. They just played along. And then it became them. Dietrich Bonhofer was a great, great man, a Christian giant and a man who fought real evil and wrestled with it.

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Why wouldn't I want one? Yeah, why wouldn't you want? Gosh, I can't think of any reasons. It makes everything so much easier. Right. You know, you can always trust. the government to have your best interest at heart, unlike these corporations. And, you know, so I think I would take one immediately.

But are there some people that are resisting this? I can't even imagine. Well, there's some that say that, you know, this is the beginning of an all-seeing, all-knowing state and the next thing you know, they control everything. It is weird, too, because is that even speculation? Like, isn't this what, like, for example, China is already doing? Oh, yeah, China's already doing. down this road. And Europe, they're trying to get it in and they talk about it openly that this is what

it is. The next thing, you get the digital ID is the first thing. Then it includes your medical records. It includes all your health, everything. It will give you access to the hospitals or not access to the hospitals. It will allow you to buy things or not buy things. It'll allow you to access online or not access online. It is control of absolutely everything. And that's in the design. And they talk about it openly. We're backdooring it.

We're not because they know Americans are not going to go for that. Really? Did you meet us during COVID? And they've been trying to remember, that's what a lot of people said COVID really. The real thing on COVID was really all about was digital ID. We got to get everything. Everybody on to do a digital ID.

Now, because Americans aren't for it, the good, good, good, good, good people at Apple are here for you. Presenting the new Apple digital ID. Now, at the TSA checkpoints in more than 250 airports all across the U.S., you can present your digital ID at TSA checkpoints and get. get right onto that plane. Imagine it allows you to create and store an ID in an Apple wallet using your U.S. passport. The Apple Digital ID acceptance will begin to roll out at TSA checkpoints for domestic travel in over 250 airports across the USA. Apple notes it's not a replacement for your physical passport, and you can't use it yet for international travel or border crossings.

But you can store everything digitally in their wallet. I can already pay for almost everything with that wallet. Now I can use it as an official government ID. Yeah.

Who doesn't want that? I mean, I... It does sort of sound appealing, doesn't it? I mean, just speaking frankly for a moment... Yes, it does. Very appealing. When I get on a... plane, you know, I'm using that as my key, you know, you have cars now where your phone is

your key. You have, you can store all sorts of credit cards, you can pay through the phone. I mean, what's the argument to the average person that this is some bad thing? I have to carry this in my wallet anyway. I'm carrying my phone instead. I'd love that. I'd love that. If it was completely isolated on my phone. Now, Apple's pretty good with security, actually. They are legitimately good with privacy. They are. No, I know. I mean that sincerely.

We're saying it with a sarcastic voice. Because what does the best mean? What does the best mean? It's a relative turn. It's a relative turn. But they are the best at digital, at, you know, security. As opposed to some of their competitors. Right.

And I have to tell you, when you start putting everything, all records, all passports, all, it is your one universal key and it's tied directly to online where it's tracking everything, everywhere you go, every dollar you spent. This is just a very bad idea. There's a story, I can't remember. Oh, it's called the Book of Revelation. I heard of it. Yeah. I mean, how much clearer do you have to be where you can't. can't go anywhere. You can't, you can't buy anything unless you have the mark. Well, I'm not saying Apple is coming up with the mark of the beast, but this is the technology that sure kind of fits it. And I just don't, do you know why the Germans could round up so many Jews

every night? IBM. IBM. That's a book, right? IBM in the Holocaust. IBM came up with the punch card system. You remember when. I was a kid. I don't know if anybody else remembers this, but these computers were the size of rooms, and you had punch cards, and you would feed it in, and it would store the information on the punch card, okay? And so you could ask it anything on a punch card, you type it out, and it would punch out whatever, and you'd feed it in the computer, and it would feed out another punch card, and then you'd translate it, okay? They put everything onto these punch cards, where everybody lived, who was related to whom, et cetera, et cetera. So they could go in the afternoon and go, we got to clear out

another 20,000. Where are they? Feed it into IBM, punch card it out, and you round everybody up. Okay. That was then. There wouldn't be a Jew alive on the planet if we had digital IDs. Not a chance. Yeah. And it really, it does sort of rest on your belief we don't cross those lines, right? Yeah. That our government doesn't become Nazi Germany. And again, there's a, there's, Everybody who has faced a government like that has thought about, oh, gosh, where our government won't do this. Right. Like everybody who, think of COVID.

We were on the air saying like in what February. Can you imagine? Look at what they're doing. They're welding people into their houses. Yeah. I remember I think in Italy being, because China was China. China's China. Like do I am I surprised they're welding people in their houses?

No way you could even help us stay in our own houses. But when it happened in Italy, I remember being like, oh my, like that's, wait a way. share a lot of what I thought a general understanding. But we still said not happen here. I remember sitting in the chair. I'm sitting in right now. Me too. Watching the map on TV of Italy as it got more and more red and circles started popping

up all over and they're getting all these cases. And I'm thinking to myself, they're actually making people stay in their houses. Can you believe this? I couldn't even comprehend it. Yeah. That they would even ask us to do it in the United States. And then a few weeks later, there we were. There we were.

There we were. And some states were better than others. Oh, yeah. And there was never a point where I was not able to leave my house. But there were lots of restrictions on where I could go. Oh, there. I know people that couldn't leave their house. Yeah.

I know people not in Texas in other places could not leave their house. Could not go outside. Could not go outside. Couldn't go for a walk. That was insanity. And, you know, and we just took it. We just took it. This is already happening.

We didn't take it. But I know what you're saying. In some states we did. Some people did. Some people not only took it, cheered it on and vilified people who wouldn't go along with it. Yes. Yes. Though I do think that when you look back at the overall arc of that period, when you don't focus on the very fine details of it, what you get is a society that did say no to it.

It took a while, and it did happen in some states and not others. We eventually did get to that place. And because of constitutional protections, I think some of that stuff was reversed. I'm not saying it's a positive story overall, but I mean, at the end of the day, we didn't turn into Nazi Germany from it. But they also didn't have total control over everything. They couldn't just shut your money off. Right. Okay.

The difference here, digital ID is the first step to an authoritarian state where they have all control. Doesn't mean you end there. It just means you've given people that power. You don't ever want to give people that power, ever, ever. We're not going to use it that way. Tell me one thing that the government has said, we're not going to do. Besides balance the budget. Show me one thing they said we're not going to do that they, you know, they haven't done.

Lots of positive things they've said they're going to do and then didn't do them. But yeah, yeah, you're right. Well, it's it is a step down a path that you don't want to walk down. Especially when, you know, if we were becoming a more and more healthy republic, if we were becoming a more and more just republic, a more calm republic, a republic that was starting to really realize, you know, I have a real responsibility as a citizen not to burn Minneapolis down. You know what I mean? I have a real responsibility as somebody in my party says, I think we should behead them. I'm going to stand up and say, no, we shouldn't. And I'll lead a campaign to make sure that that person is not, you know, the one that we.

that election, even if it's my, even if it's my running mate. We're not that nation. We're not going in that direction. We're going the opposite. When you have a nation that is like, you know, I don't know exactly what's going to happen with the dollar because of everything is going. You don't want to hand them the tool that just says, oh, by the way, you can buy everything now, you know, with your digital ID.

And it'll all be centralized and you've already signed up. You have it. So we're just giving it now. Your dollar is not going to be worth anything soon. Just make sure you get the digital ID. You don't want that scenario. You stay away from those lines. We do have to protect those lines.

But I will say, you know, history is littered with examples of people who say they're going to protect those lines. And when convenience rears its head, they choose the convenience. I mean, it happens almost every single time, Glenn. There's almost no examples. of people who will resist these technologies. So that is on, that is on the freedom loving side, okay? Where you're like,

I'm not going to do, I'm not going to give my face to anybody, face ID on Apple. We're all doing it. Right. Okay. On the other side, there's almost no example of getting something

that can be used to control people and having those who are nefarious on either side, not use those things. Eventually, they will find a way to use those things. Look at the Patriot Act. We all, we're not, oh, you know what? We're all patriots. We're all patriots.

We all believe in a same thing. Maybe a slight simplification of that conversation, but I know what you're saying. But generally speaking, we all just kind of went along with it. And look how out of control it is now. Look how out of control our country is on spying on our own citizens. something 20 years ago, we would have, we would have, we would have marched up to Washington to make sure all of those people were standing in front of a judge and going to jail that week. We don't even recognize it anymore. You don't want these tools given.

We're simultaneously being watched more than ever before. But as you brought up in hour one, Thomas Crooks is just on the internet. It's like threatening everybody in the government. How do I behead this politician? Right. And like, no, even knows and that one pays attention. A search. And our government is like, yeah. Mary, we couldn't find anything digitally.

Wait, wait. He did this. How come what is happening? That's why, I mean, in a time when we distrust our government more and more, that's the last thing you do is give them more power and access to everything about you. How do you balance this, though, Glenn? Because one of the things, and maybe we could take a, I know I have to take a break here, but maybe you can answer this.

One of the things I always thought about the most brilliant thing of our founders were understanding human fallibility. Yes. Right? Like, understanding that we weren't going to be perfect and we should set up a system that understood that people have selfish motivations at times and that the system will be able to understand that and still be able to deliver a great world. Right. Right. This is the situation here. Like, this is why I have no real time for some of the conversations we've had on,

some of the people we've read and talked about who are like, let's just stop AI for five years. And then let's assess it. Like, even Elon Musk has said stuff like this. And like, I think he's even abandoned that to some degree as he's developing AI himself. But like, the idea that we're going to slow this down or stop it and have a conversation, people just want it too much. And at some point, we just have to understand.

they're going to. We better live in that world, understand that world, and try to deal with the real world. Because if we just say, okay, well, let's just stop, well, that's great. You know, who's not going to stop China? You know, who's not going to stop, like, bad actors, hacking groups, all these other things. And if we base our solution on, well, let's just not do these things, we're going to wind up losing. And I, you know, the digital idea is probably a small part of that conversation, but I think it's part of it. People are going to want to, I don't have to bring my wallet. So how do we, knowing that people will choose to have these things on these things on their

phone, because it's going to be easier? How are we going to then push back against that and stop these things from going down these roads? You're listening to the best of Glenn Beck. Need a little more? Check out the full show podcasts. Anywhere you download podcasts. Hey, can I ask you for a favor?

Would you say a prayer for some of my friends like Megan Kelly? I have been where they are and they are, they are under the gun big time. Everything that Megan is saying is being taken out of context by one side or another, and they are surrounding her. And, you know, I know her well enough to know no, he's going to beat her down. But just pray for people who do what we do, that we have wisdom, that we see the truth, we know the truth, and we have the courage to say the truth,

and when we're wrong, we have the courage to say we got it wrong. But it's getting more and more difficult to do this every day. And I thought it was difficult before. But say a prayer. And you don't have to pray for me. I mean, I'd love it, but pray for Megan in particular, if you would.

I've got I've got somebody on who is in just an amazing, amazing show from Amazon, House of David. If you haven't seen House of David yet, you have to. Do you remember when like biblical movies? I mean, they were good in the 50s and then they got really, really bad. And all through the 70s and 80s and 90s and early 2000, they were horrible. And then all of a sudden they started getting really, really good. this one is amazing. This is as good as the Jesus.

What is the Jesus one? The Chosen. It's called House of David. It's on Amazon. And we have the guy who portrays David, Michael Iskendor, on with us. Michael, how are you? I'm good. What an introduction.

Thank you for that. I mean, it's really, I mean, come on. Was there any time that you thought, oh, and this might, this could, I hope they do it right? and then you saw the finished product and you were like, wow, this is good. Yeah, I mean, that was, you know, I try to still keep my head down. And, you know, it's not finished until it's finished. And season two is coming out. But, you know, I'm just so glad to be hearing the response of how this show is really affecting people.

So can I talk to you about Goliath? Because Goliath is portrayed really as a giant. not just a big guy. You mean, he's a giant. Yes. Talk to me about that. Well, I'll tell you what, when I first met Martin, he's a giant in real life. I went to, I went to the gym with him one time.

And I knew. I'm going to go get, you know, messed up. So I was prepared for that. And he made the workout for two and a half hours. And then I thought the workout was done. And he was like, no, there's another half. Martin Ford is a really dedicated man. And he just, he pushed me to the edge when it came working out.

And, you know, when it comes to his role with Goliath, he is someone that, you know, really just put in all the effort both physically and emotionally to really portray that part as best he can. How long did it take you to learn how to do the, slingshot? Three days. It wasn't too bad. Wow.

I heard that, I mean, I heard that you had problem with the sheep, that the sheep were, they were not helpful. The sheep, man, well, the sheep, the sheep were actually really interesting. I remember when we first started filming, they, uh, they put me in sheep training classes. Because when I get on set, they have to make sure that I'm not, you know, I'm not going to get attacked by one of the sheep and I'm comfortable around them. but the sheep, first day I show up to this training

and the sheep hated me and you think that the guy who plays David would be good with sheep but it was the exact opposite. No, I don't think that's natural. You're an actor. I don't know if it's, yep, well, they picked me because I'm good with sheep.

Okay. I should have got classes from you. Yeah. I mean, but no, I mean, I mean, really, I spent a lot of time with the shepherd, and he would give me some really amazing lessons. He saw that I was having trouble and he said, you know, you should, you should stick next to me because the sheep, when they see you with the shepherd, they'll know that you're with me.

So they'll never leave my side. It's amazing. I want you to spend a lot of time with me. He said, oh, okay. And then he said, I want you to know another thing. A bad shepherd is a shepherd who's behind the flock. And so you, you're going to be a good shepherd. going to show them

you're not going to let them lead you, you're going to lead them and you're going to be in the front, taking

the risks and showing them the path. And he's saying this and I'm like, I think, I think I'm getting more than just

a sheep lessen here. But it really helped in terms of, you know, understanding who David was as a person and his relationship to Christ

and why David was chosen as king. Is it true that you fasted before the audition? I mean, you're a Broadway guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I, well, I sent in the first audition. I was really excited about it, and it was a dream of mine for a long time. You know, one of these dreams that you don't tell anyone, you don't think that's ever going to happen. To play David specifically? Or to be in a... Yeah, true. Really?

To play David. To play David. And because I was inspired by the Chosen, and I wanted to... I wanted to like maybe do a flashback scene as like a young David or something. And then when I, so when I got the audition and they originally said no, I was like, oh, you know, that, that would have been, that would have been a good opportunity. And then I got another audition. And I called my mom and I said, mom, this doesn't happen off. Like, can you believe it?

And she said, Michael, calm down. The one thing I need you to do, I need you to fast and I need you to pray. So yes, man. and a week later I was having a lunch with John Irwin and he you know everything kind of took off from there but yeah I'm fasting in prayer you know I'm friends with I went to school with Jim Caviesel and I can't remember what grade he was in maybe fifth grade I think

but he went into he went into church and all by himself and he prayed and he made a pack with God let me all I want Lord is to play you in a movie someday. And I will live my life honorably to be able to be ready, but I want to play you. And so, you know, he told me when Mel called,

he was like, yeah, I've been waiting for the call. It's an amazing thing. Wow, I didn't know that story. That's beautiful. Yeah.

What do you think it is about the story that, I mean, this is the number one show, number one series on Amazon, on Amazon Prime this year? What is it, about the series that you think is connecting? You know, everybody, I'll tell you from me,

the reason why this show means a lot to me is because David points us to Christ. And David is a person. He, to me, he's the embodiment of what it means to be human and to make mistakes and yet to still find forgiveness. And his story is a very complex, long story. But he is a man that, he's known as the man after, God's own heart. So for people to see that example, to see, to see the man that God loved so much

that Jesus himself was known as the son of David, I think that's what's resonating with people. They see the Holy Spirit at the show. At least that's what I see. And that's who I do it for. It's amazing to me how, with an exception of one, the Bible, every, every, single hero is so deeply flawed. And David is so good, so good. And then, you know, becomes really, really does one of the worst things I think I've ever read in the Bible. I mean, just really bad.

Yeah. Are you going to play, do you have any idea, assuming the ratings are there, how long of the story you're going to tell? I really don't know. I mean, we're just trying to get through season two right now. on the release, hopefully, you know, pray for us that we can get a season three and then we can keep telling the story. I don't know what Irwin and Gunn have in the tricking up, but I pray that we tell as much of

the story as possible. And I think it's important to see both the good and the bad, like you said, to see this flawed human being, to see someone make mistakes and yet to see them get back up and repent and ask for forgiveness and find grace in God. So we'll see. Pray for us. I read someplace that you were a Broadway guy, and I thought his career is not over you.

I mean, are you prepared to always be David? I mean, the guy who's playing Jesus now, Jim Caviesel said, you know, it took years before he was allowed to play anything else. And I can't remember the guy who's playing. Jesus now, his whole life. He is Jesus now to a lot of people. Are you prepared to this be you for the rest of your life now and not going back and doing other things if that's the way it is? You know what? God has taken me to so much in my life and I'm sure he's going to get me through this.

And if I'm known as the guy who plays David, I think that's actually a blessing. And I don't know what God has is his store, but I trust him. So when that time comes, I'll worry about it then, but for now I'm having a great time portraying one of the favorite people. I have to just ask you a personal question, one for me. My daughter wants to be on Broadway. Could you talk her out of it in 30 seconds, please? Wow, man, I don't know if I want to talk her out of it. Okay, well, I have time for you to go now. Michael, thank you so much, and we're looking forward.

When, when is it premiere this weekend? Is it out? Well, episode eight is out on Wonder Project on Prime this Sunday. Okay, good, good. Yeah. Well, we'll be watching. Thank you so much, Michael. I appreciate him.

Thank you so much, man. Have a good one. Take care. If you haven't seen the first season, you really should see the, I mean, it's really, really good. It's one of those that I started watching, you know, and I stopped. because I'm like, wait, Tanya, we should watch this together, and she came home, and so we started watching it. And I think we watched the whole season in, like, one weekend. It's one of those that you just, it's really good.

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