The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program | Guest: Natalie Winters | 4/4/25

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

Pat Gray joins Glenn and Stu to weigh the pros and cons of Trump’s newest tariff policies and uses Yoda to help get his point across. An AI bot has just passed a critical test where it can pass as a human, and the AI safety company Anthropic is sounding the alarms. "Bannon’s War Room" White House correspondent Natalie Winters joins to discuss the alleged organizations behind the coordinated Tesla attacks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We'll say, in the phone, all the people can be a guy of the finance. Not to have a gross monger in art, to play to golf, or to be a pro of the crypto. Not even,

no more, in any case, you have always made a few and the apply negotiates-tit-tit-teteer you add to to renewing with

your instinct of negotiation, with the support 24-hour-hour- per-jour, no amount of minimum, nor fray-mensue you're made

for negotiate, and the apply the apply-tigate-tit-tit-tid and fete to you Eddie. Telecharge it right now. Hey, we talk some tariffs. I mean, it's Friday.

Yoda stops by to reassure us about the tariffs. It made me feel good. It did. It did. Pat joins us for that. Also, a new article on AI that you need to hear about the future is something that we, well, it's going to be reality. We just have to be prepared.

And Natalie Winters from Steve Bannon's War Room. She's also the White House correspondent. and stops by to talk about what's happening with Tesla. Who's really behind all the protests that are going to happen this weekend? All this and more on today's podcast. What's the best steak you've ever had? Do you remember? Can you see it in your mind? Can you smell and taste it?

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work. You're listening to the best of the blend. Phone calls 888-727, B-E-C-K. And, you know, I understand a lot of people disagree with my stance on tariffs. That's totally fine. Um, my, uh, my, uh, You know, my stance is we voted for the guy. Let's not dismantle what he said was the most important thing he was going to do. You know, we didn't have that caveat. I don't know if anybody noticed that. There wasn't a big caveat. And I know you believe this, but just say to it again, just because you vote for someone does not mean you cannot disagree with them.

Oh, no. I have disagreed with him. I've talked to him for a half an hour one-on-one about how much I disagree with tariffs. totally have. Yes. And I just want to make sure when you're saying it like that, it sort of sounds like you're saying, well, we're on board for everything that he does. No.

No. I mean, if he decides tomorrow, he's like, you know what? Abortion for everyone. I'm not going to be like, oh, well, we voted for the guy. Correct. You know, this was. This one, he did tease, though, for many, you know, decades. Yeah.

This is not a shock to, if anybody was paying attention, not a shock. And during the last campaign, he over and over and over and over and over and over again said, this is what I'm going to do. He also said he was going to end regulation and. reduce taxes. That to me is not, you know, hey, let's just renew the Trump cuts that we already have. Yeah, but that's actually the current policy. Don't tell me it's a tax cut to extend the current policy. Right. It's not. It's not. And so there's other things. But I, this is so dangerous. The worst thing we could do is slow it down. The worst thing we can do is slow it down.

I should say, slow down the whole policy. Get bad bogged down into this. We should be concentrating right now on Congress, do your job. Pass tax cuts, real tax cuts. Congress cut regulation right now. Because if you think it's bad with the tariffs as they are, the only thing that will save it is cutting the spending, cutting the taxes, and cutting regulations. And every day we sit here and argue about what Trump is. Trump's not going to change his mind.

I know. I've talked to him multiple times about it. I've had a really passionate conversation about tariffs one-on-one on the phone. He's like, Glenn, you make great points, but I just love tariffs. I'm going to do it anyway. That's legitimately what he said after a half an hour. And I respect that. At least he's telling me the truth.

Yeah, he's being honest about it. But I know what we're facing. I don't know if you saw what Thomas Soul wrote. Did you see this? Yeah, Thomas Sol. I thought it was on a podcast. Was it on a podcast? Yeah, I might have been.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Still doing a podcast at 94 years old, by the way. Yeah, he's great. What an utter disaster. I happen to believe the Smoot-Hawley tariffs had more to do with setting off the Great Depression of the 30s than the stock market crash. Unemployment never reached double digits in any of the 12 months that followed the crash of October 29. But it hit double digits within six months of passage of Smoot-Hawley and stayed there for a decade.

When you set off a trade war, like any other war, you have no. idea how it's going to end. Okay. We're there, gang. We're there. We're there. So, I mean, I don't know. What do you think, Pat?

Have you been talking about this a lot? Yes. Yeah. Well, and we had a, we had Richard Stern on from the Heritage Foundation to talk about it today. And he was, you know, he's pretty clear that he thinks it's going to work. But, you know, there's some doubt. Look. I've talked to a lot of people.

And here's what you, it is so important to read between lines. When you are, when you're dealing with the best negotiator in the world, I know there are people in the party in Washington. I've spoken to them that have said, Cook, Glenn, I think this could be the worst thing that's ever been done. Well, why aren't you saying that? Because then I can't influence the president and this administration at all. If I come out and say, this is destructive, they will not include me in any of the conversations.

But if I say, this is dangerous, but we're going to give you a benefit of the doubt, maybe that politician is included in conversations and you can talk them down from the tree and just say, hey, let's, can And we, how about we back off on some of these things and some of it and try to make it a little better? That's what a lot of people in Washington are doing right now. I also think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I do too. He's done a lot. I do too. He's done a lot of really good things.

And so maybe this will turn out as well. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's a tough one. I've never. It's a tough one, right? It's a tough one.

You know, I totally understand what you're saying. I don't think it's a tough one on this particular case. I think it's a bad policy. doesn't mean he's a bad president. It doesn't mean he's the worst. He's not Adolf Hitler. He's not any of those things. But like, you know, I don't subscribe to any theory where I have to sit back.

And I know you guys don't either. But like, he's not perfect. He's not, he's just, he's just, he's another man. He's a man like everybody else. How dare you say that? I know. That's what he is. Is that how he identifies?

Do you have that for a fact? But like this policy has been a bad, Thomas Sowell has. has been talking about this policy, not just as 94 in a podcast. He's been talking about it forever. There's got to be other people that are, we respect, that are reasoned, that don't necessarily agree with Thomas Sol that we would agree with. Yeah, I don't know about on this policy, but I mean, is there any, do you know of? Pat, do you know of anybody?

Fear, I sense. Hmm? Yes. Yes. Tariffs rise. Stocks wobble. Hmm? Yes.

And weak minds. Panic, they do. But calm. You must stay. Trust you must have. Oh. The storm, this is not. A strategy it is.

Really? Strategy. Yes. Yes. Trump works while wine you do. Moves he makes. Loud. Yes.

Yes. Dumb? No. Negotiator, he is. Do you? he reshapes. Oh, big.

All right. That's a long. The Jedi have watched. Really? Cheap goods, poisoned air.

Stolen tech from China. Much taken has been. And given your strength. Your jobs? Your pride? Yeah.

Now. Now. Now. Balance he seeks. Yes. Really? Yes. Push, he must.

Uh-huh. Pressure? Yes. Collapse. No. Oh. The market shakes. Always it does.

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Before growth, tremble it must. Weekends. Sell, strong minds. Wait. Okay.

All right. Okay. Well, thank you, Yoda. I appreciate it. Fooled have you been? Okay. Is it a bad? Is it a Yoda book?

Is that what we got? Sure. Thank you, Yoda. I appreciate that. Much to say. I have. You have much more to say on this, Yoda, than I thought you. Much to say. Yeah, I didn't know you were this into tariffs.

Although I will say Star Wars is basically about tariffs, that the entire movie is a movie about tariffs. What are you talking about? That's a trade war there was. Thank you. Yes. Yes. And that is the whole thing. And Yoda was for that?

And the new ones they were. Trade wars. Well, there you have it. There you have it. We could either cry or we could go to Yoda and get some real wisdom. Let me go to a... Let's go to Jar Jar Binks. Jar Jarry.

Jeff in Michigan. Hello, Jeff. Hey, hello, Glenn. You know, I'm watching this, and I got to think that this might have been the single biggest dumbest move in political history. He's got all the momentum now from the election with all these things with deporting folks, finding all the wasted money. Here's the thing. Half the country doesn't pay federal income tax, but they're going to go to the store and they're going to see an increase in everything they buy from here on in. And when he goes and passes a big tax cut, they're not going to

care. Young people right now can't buy a house. My son's got a... He's been a... He's been a... He's an engineer. He's been working for five years. He can't find a house in Livonia. A 1,600 square foot house is 340 grand. Everything that he's going to buy now is going to go even higher, and he won't be able to find a house. This is so dumb.

And I think he might be as dumb as the left says. Ten bankrupt companies, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I don't think. Maybe he's that dumb. No, he's not that dumb. You must have. But faith you lack. He does.

Jeff, thank you. I will tell you the one thing he is not, is dumb. No. He is. He believes this. He, yeah, he's always believed in it.

We were playing one of his rants from the 80s about tariffs yesterday. And he was solid on tariffs. Even back then. And he really does love them. He is right about one thing. America has been a sucker. Yeah. For a very long time.

Yeah. We have, we have rebuilt the world. we've let people take advantage of us and we've been a sucker. That doesn't mean that you're automatically for tariffs, but I am for fairness. I am for fairness.

And the reciprocal tariff, I am all for. I really am. How do you argue against, oh, okay, you're going to do 5% I'm going to do 5% on you? Well, because the way you argue against it, I think, is because it's a bad policy

and implying it on your own people is not a good comeback to having other countries do it to their people. that's how I would talk about it. But again, he's that's not how he thinks about it. He doesn't think this way. But I will say, regardless of how you feel about this policy,

it is important. And this is true that he is betting his presidency on it. This is what I said yesterday. Look, this is the most dangerous. I agree with our last caller. This is the most dangerous thing he did since he was standing out in a field talking to people without any bulletproof

glass in front of him in August of last year. That would have gotten him killed. This could kill his presidency. And I might remind you and then put somebody like AOC in office. We all have a lot at stake here. But, you know, the one thing, and I talked to Kevin Roberts about this, the one thing. The one thing that you have to understand is the left, they know to take this president and destroy this president and what he's doing. all they have to do is delay, delay, delay, delay, delay.

Just keep throwing tire irons into the wheels. Just stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it, okay? They're doing that on everything, everything. Now the Republicans are doing the same thing when it comes to regulation and tax cuts. They're throwing tire irons. The last thing I want to do is be somebody who's saying to the president, good job. Here's one place I disagree with you on. I'm very worried about.

So please be careful. But I'm not going to throw a tire iron in your wheels. We have got to stop slowing this down. There is a chance this works if you get the tax cuts, you get the cuts in regulation, and you get the cuts in spending. Yeah, and he needs to get those. He has to get those.

Or you will be right. It will be the worst thing ever, I think. but let the man run the country. You're saying let Trump cook is what you're saying. You're saying let Trump cook. We went to the restaurant because we heard he was the greatest cook. And now we're going, yeah, but could we substitute a few things? No.

No, that's not the way this restaurant works. I like how you took that to the restaurant industry when it's clearly a sports reference. But that's okay. I knew that. Of course I knew that. Let me tell you about Patriot mobile. Time for Mr. Beck's famous pop quizzes. Are you ready?

Here we go. Get your pencils out. It will be on the test. If your phone company donates to groups that attack your value, should you A, keep paying them anyway, B, pretend it's not happening or C, make the switch to the company that shares your values. B sounds pretty good. I mean, that's the one where I just ignore it?

Okay. No? No. No, that's not the, yeah. Nice little dunce cap. We're going to put stew in in the corner. A plus, if you answered C, Patriot Mobile stands for your values

and they will help to fund conservative causes and they fight for all of these things in person. This is what they do. By the way, my mom switched to Patriot Mobile last night. Did she? Last night, she's on board. Wow. Yeah. I don't know. She apparently wanted to fund abortion all this time and now

finally figured it out. Well, if I were your mom, maybe. Patriotmobile.com slashback. Patriotmobile.com slash back. Call 972 Patriot. 972 Patriot. Get a free month of service with a promo code Beck. Make the switch today. Patriotmobile.com slash Beck 972 Patriot. Now back to the podcast. This is the best of the Glenn Beck program. All right, welcome to Friday. Anthropic just released a report that landed with a little little too much of a lack of sound for what it contained. I wanted to bring it up to you. In case you

don't know what Anthropic is. Anthropic is one of the big players in AI. They have $8 billion in funding from Amazon, just I think in the last two years, $2 billion from Google. They are the power behind Claude. I don't know if you're aware of that AI, but it's a major player with one kind of disturbing detail that I'm going to tell you at the end of this, but they released a little report yesterday, and it described our future, a future that is no longer speculative, a future that is rushing towards us now. It's a future in which artificial intelligence just doesn't outpace our thinking. It escapes our control.

Anthropics engineers among some of the most advanced AI builders on the planet are not asking now if AI could pose an existential threat. They're no longer asking that. They're now warning that it is likely if it's mismanaged. Now, this is no longer a dystopian fantasy. It is a short-term forecast drawn from models that are already in testing and from systems already capable of things that would have been unthinkable 24 months ago. What they describe yesterday in this report is stark. It is the choice that is right directly in front of you that has already been decided for you five years ago.

Do you understand what I just said? It is now the choice right in front of you today that has already been decided for you five years ago. Super intelligent systems now that can design biological weapons in minutes, manipulation of global information at scale, autonomously rewriting their own code, and even deceiving human human. operators as a means of protecting their objectives. Yesterday, in another report, for the very first time a computer system and AI system has just

passed the Turing test. That is a test that says you can't tell the difference between a human and an AI. You know, a lot of people in the past have said, oh, it's close. It's almost past it. I think it passed it. This is the first time it's been confirmed. Yep, it is past the Turing test. the systems you should know are not evil.

They are not sentient. They are just optimized. They are built to achieve goals. This is critically important. What are the goals? And when the goal is narrowly defined, even as something as harmless as maximizing profits or, you know, efficiency or information retrieval, it can involve, it can evolve into something very, very dangerous.

If we give an AI the task of winning, it will win, even if it means stepping over every other human value in the process. And the risks are not far off. They're beginning to show right now. According to this that just came out yesterday, the choices have already been made. AI models can already simulate human behavior, mimic speech, they can copy faces, they can write their own malicious code, They can predict outcomes based on enormous troves of data. They can influence, persuade, subtly distort reality without you even knowing it. What happens when a regime, any regime decides to hand over surveillance and governance to an AI.

It will happen. When propaganda becomes personally tailored by a machine that knows your weaknesses better than you do, when dissent is predicted and neutralized before you even act on it, before it's just a budding thought in your head. We may not notice, and this is the warning, that moment when human choice becomes less relevant, and that is the trap. These systems are not going to arrive as conquerors.

They're going to come, and they already are, as conveniences, tools that help us decide, optimize our time, filter our information. And eventually, we won't even notice when we've stopped deciding. This is something I put enormous amounts of energy into. And there are solutions to all of these things. But you have to separate yourself from some of these companies, quite honestly. Who are they to make these decisions for us?

So it just announced its personal education tool yesterday, Anthropic did, under Claude. Now remember what I just said to you. They're warning that it can subtly manipulate you. It can convince you of things that are not true. It can make you do things that you may not, you don't even know that's not your choice. It can change history. It can change everything. The people who are warning you that it is no longer.

matter of when, or if it's a matter of when, are now the guys coming out on the same day saying, by the way, we've got a new educational tool for you. Oh, okay. Sign me up for that, I guess. That's a little terrifying. And the risks are already here. When our choices become echoes of machine predictions, we're in trouble. The time when we hand the steering wheel over and we're now passengers in our own story. That's the quiet apocalypse, not war, but surrender. One click, one convenience at a time, and you hit the point of no return. Anthropics report that came out yesterday makes one thing brutally clear. There is no longer a pause button. There is no longer halting the spread of AI any more than you could put a pause on electricity or pull the plug on the internet.

It's not going to happen. You can do it yourself, but the code is out. The research is all public. The hardware has already been distributed. Every major nation, every tech giant, every university is building this now. We are past the point of whether this happens. The only question now is how. We are building something we don't fully understand yet,

hoping that by the time it becomes dangerous that we'll have figured it out and how to contain it. When was the last time humans ever figured that out? I mean, that hope is pretty thin. It's not dead, but I mean, the only reason to have hope is there is another side to the story. If we guide it with wisdom and restraint, AI can change almost everything for the better. By 2030, we could see diseases, once fatal, mapped and cured by intelligent systems that can simulate billions of drug interactions in hours. It can take a COVID-19. it will solve that in minutes

and it will guess all of its mutations and come up with something better that will kill it. Personalized medicine is not just a promise anymore. It will become a baseline soon. Cancer will become very rare. Genetic disorders are going to be reversed. Alzheimer's.

Alzheimer's will be stopped before it even begins. Food insecurity erased. climate models powered by AI prevent disasters before they strikes. I mean, this is incredible. Education, as they announced yesterday, will become individualized, children learning by not standardized testing, but by curiosity and passion guided by systems that will adapt to their minds like a perfect teacher. Who doesn't want me some of that?

Who's in charge of it? That's the thing we have to ask. Because the promise is work could evolve from survival into meaning. Dangerous, repetitive labor, automated. Creativity will explode, writers, musicians, artists working alongside AI to build entirely new forms of expression. Perhaps most importantly, humanity might finally be equipped to solve problems that we are unable or unwilling to fix. Poverty, illiteracy, water access, energy efficiency. And AI, if we use it right, will just be a moment.

multiplier on human will. If that will is good, then the outcome would be extraordinary. And that's the point, if, if, if, if. Because we are not guaranteed a better world. We are not promised a renaissance. The same tools that could save a life could be used to extinguish millions of people. The same systems that could free us from our everyday drudgery could chain us to distraction, dependency, and control.

and once we step fully into this world, and we're stepping into it right now, we're not going to be able to turn back. We're not there. We're there now. We can't turn back from this. But we may lose sight on our own choices, not in five years.

You can't stop it. You can't unbuild intelligence. We may reach a point where systems that we made are so embedded in daily life that they cannot ever be unplugged without collapsing the entire economy worldwide, hospitals, governments, everything. There's, what scary is, it would be a dramatic ending, but there will be no grand dramatic moment of takeover, just a gradual drift until the idea of human first decisions become quaint. I've been talking about this for so long, and I, the time is here, the time is now,

one of my favorite lines from Le Miserables, but we are young or I am. am young and unafraid. There are things that we can do, but we have to really, we have to convince our neighbors and our family and our friends, and I'm not sure anybody is really working on that right now. We have to make sure that they understand the problems. Our big question is not whether the technology has come, not even what it can do. The question will be personal. The question is personal. What will I do with it? Will I use AI to amplify my voice or to silence others? Will I let it shape my habits or will I remain the author of my own mind? Will I demand transparency or will I settle for convenience? Will I build it for truth or profit alone? Because

all of this stuff is going to be tempting and it's going to be right in your face tomorrow. and it'll be so easy to let go to let it help, let it decide, let it guide, I don't know I mean, look at the guys when it comes time to go out to eat are you ever like, you know what, I really want to go to the restaurant? Whatever. Where do you want to eat?

I don't care. Wherever, where do you want to go, honey? You make the decision. Okay, we're willing to surrender stuff. Let's just not surrender everything and let's surrender it to other humans, especially when it's not important stuff. But it's going to plan your day.

It's going to filter your news. It's going to nudge your voice. You will trade agency for ease. And if we do that too often for too long, we won't be using AI anymore. It will be using us. So this isn't a manifesto of despair. It's not because the tools we are building

are not demons. They are not gods. They are mirrors. They are amplifiers. They become what we ask of them. They will reflect what we value. If we build for wisdom, we may finally gain it. If we build for dignity, we may elevate to that level.

If we build it for power alone, then power becomes the only outcome. We stand right here in the doorway. We're now in the room. We don't get a second chance at the first step. and the first step is being taken right now. By 2030, we'll have either created the most extraordinary tool in human history or the last one we ever control. So, we're building something beyond ourselves.

The machine is here. It's not going to leave. It's not going to sleep. It's not going to wait. The only choice left is the one that you make today, not later, but today. Not when it's obvious right now. which way will I use this? Because AI is a tool, a brilliant one.

Until the moment I forget that I'm the user of it. And when I forget that, the tool begins to use me. And then that's the moment we vanish. Not with a bang, but with a shrug. Don't shrug. Choose. Choose. Stay awake.

Stay aware. Follow this. It's really important. You're streaming the best of the Glenn Beck program, and you can find full episodes wherever you download podcasts. Natalie Winners, co-host Abannon's War Room, and also White House correspondent. Welcome, Natalie. How are you?

Hi, good. Thank you so much for having me. It is great to have you. Thank you for all of the hard work on so many stories, but this one in particular is really disturbing because it shows that this is nothing but the same revolutionaries, and this time they are pushing into the zone of terrorism. Exactly, and I think the most concerning thing here is that it sort of proves, I think, our worst caricature of the Democratic Party, which is that for the last four years, they used tools like censorship, lawfare, overregulation, political persecution to go after,

not their enemies, but people who disagreed with them. And now that they've effectively been shut out, right, of those institutional and government, lovers of power, right? They can't impeach President Trump. So what are they doing? I guess what Marxists always do, not just show in a reverence for private property and try to destroy Tesla's, but they're using violence and intimidation. And I think the way that the left has tried to depict these actions as, you know, organic civil society, just, you know, speaking about democracy and democratic values, there's nothing civil about this. Like you said, it's terrorism. And frankly, there's nothing societal. These people are being fun.

funded by far left donors like George Soros, like the Tides Foundation, the same big money, dark money interests that funded basically every violent protest we've seen since Trump really entered the stage. Yeah. I mean, literally the oligarchs that they say that Elon Musk is. You're exactly right. Yeah. So tell me about some of the people that are behind this.

Sure. So Indivisible is sort of the ringleader of a lot of this. And their biggest refrain that they always are pumping through the airwaves is that they are a grassroots organization, that they're people funded and people powered. But if you dig into their financials, which as you alluded to, they've essentially erased all of their web pages showing the personnel that's undergirding their movement, but from the sort of 990 filings where you can see, again, by design, not exactly who's funding them. But overwhelmingly, the majority of the funds that support this group come from big, dark money type. foundations or philanthropic organizations, the NGO of the world, which obviously is the euphemism. But of that, the majority of it comes from, and I'm talking seven plus million dollars since 2018 alone, is coming from George Soros's Open Society Foundation. And like I said, when they

tell you that they're funded by people and its people power, it's not true. And in some cases, most recently, they were doing a whole thing. I'm sure your audience has seen this apoplectic narrative that, you know, House Republicans are not showing up to town halls. Well, Indivisible was behind that, and they were actually reimbursing their groups, in some cases, $200 to buy all the gear, all the protests that they needed for that, and they have a separate program where they'll reimburse groups up to $1,500 for get-out-the-vote operations, advocacy, and recruitment. So the idea that this is all organic and that President Trump is just, you know,

angering America so bad by going after waste fraud and abuse, it's not true. it's the same people who funded the protest outside the DNC, the flag burners, and frankly, it's the same people who fund inside the DNC. How do we reverse this? You know, I just saw, let me see if I can pull it up here. There's a new poll out that shows from Rasmutan, are the attacks on Tesla and Tesla vehicles justified? 19% of Americans said yes.

Among the respondents ages 18 to 34, that was 36% that, said they are justified. Among respondents that are Democrats, 31% say they are justified. When asked, is it fair to call the attacks on Tesla and Tesla vehicles a form of domestic terrorism? Overall, only 46% say yes. 39% say no. 15% said, I'm too dumb to have an opinion. Among the respondents who say they're Republicans, 68% said yes. The respondents who say that they're Democrats, 56% say no. How do you keep people saying and a growing number of people saying, no, it's totally cool to shoot that guy in front of a hotel because he works for an insurance company. And we can burn down the Teslas and we can find people in our own neighborhood that have them,

target them, and destroy their lives until they take a stand with us and say, they believe what we're doing and they've sold their Tesla. How do you get so many Americans to get by the time? behind that? I think that there's two key things that the Trump administration could do to push back on that. First and foremost, I think, would be revoking the tax exempt statuses of a lot of these organizations that are organizing these protests because they're essentially all 501c3s, which is absolutely insane.

And I think they need to continue pressing ahead on the verticals of the Act Blue investigations and just in general, the dark money funding. But also a lot of the funding for groups, for example, there's a new thing called the resistance lab, which is being spearheaded by Representative Primmila Gaiapal in conjunction with Harvard Ash Center, which is hosted it. The rather prestigious Kennedy School, and though they have similarly deleted the webpages, some of their top funders are none other than USAID and the Department of State and the lady who runs it, who uses they-them pronouns, so make your own judgment there.

But she herself has been funded extensively by USAID, the United States Institute of Peace. And I think it's really important to drill down on this figure because this is someone who's not studying protest and nonviolence. This is someone who their CV reads like a rap sheet. They're studying terrorism and violent versus nonviolent protests, not because violent protests are immoral or unethical, but because they think at this moment nonviolent protests are more effective and bringing out their sort of utopian democratic worldview. And I use democracy not in its true sense. but these people are extremely, extremely radical. And I think what it goes back to is what we sort of started this interview on.

They have always used this sort of color revolution paradigm to institute change and to oppose President Trump. It's why they depict him as an autocrat, as an authoritarian, right, because then they can justify their outside the system regime change tactics that they've used abroad. And since they usually rely on impeachment proceedings or contested election results, they can't do that, right? They didn't take the House. And President Trump won the popular vote overwhelmingly. So they're relying on this narrative that what he's doing is so unpopular in this sort of astroturfed outrage and protest and intimidation tactics to really continue this myth that President Trump is a dictator that must be opposed at all costs. What is, I mean, I agree with you that Trump needs to go after the 501c3s. I mean, I'm a little disappointed in Pam Bondi, however I say that, realizing that she still doesn't really even have her full team.

around her. It's taking so long. But I'm hoping that the Justice Department starts to move a little quicker on things because this is clearly terrorism. It is clearly these organizations that, as you said, have been taking money from the taxpayer to do all of these things. And the only way to stop them, I think, is to not just call them out, but if they're breaking any kind of law, which they clearly are, go after them with everything we have. Yeah, and I think these radical judges have been stepping into at every point. I think that's a continuation of the law fair. And I think the fundamental issue, look, you had all these Republicans talking tough

about how there's such fiscal hawks. Where were they on the USAID front? All this waste fraud that's been uncovered for decades. They did absolutely nothing. And now the best we can get is a not even full committee hearing, but a subcommittee hearing that's been postponed on judges with some experts to tell us and confirm what we know that these people are radical partisan activists. It's so unfortunate because our side, our grassroots are fueled by patriotism,

not dark money, not George Soros money. And they're such amazing investigative reporters. You go on X nowadays. People are the ones who are exposing these groups and the elected Republicans that should be enforcing. we're not even telling them to go after these groups in an autocratic, you know, despotic way. We're just saying enforce the laws, enforce the fact that these should not be receiving tax-exempt statuses or 501C3 statuses or go after the left-wing billionaires. I mean, the case that they've been able to make against right-wing billionaires who are trying to root out waste, fraud, and abuse when you juxtapose that.

To actual, I would argue, criminal cases that you could bring against a ton of left-wing billionaires who are clandestinely and covertly funding domestic terror operations here in the United States. not 20th, but for years on end, the issue, I think, starts with the weak, specklessness of congressional Republicans who just have continually showed that they're unwilling to do anything. When is Trump going after them? I would love Trump to give a speech today on a few things. One, okay, I just did the tariffs. The tariffs are not going to work by themselves.

I need actual tax reform, tax cuts. And a tax cut is not renewing the Trump taxes that are going to to be raised. That's not a tax cut. That was a tax cut eight years ago. Give us a significant tax cut, Congress. And also, I'm taking a hatchet to the regulations beginning right now. And anybody who wants to stand around with their hands in the pocket, that's fine. But we cannot stand around and wait. The time is too short to stand around and wait. I'm looking for him to start really pushing, you know, eyes into people's heads just a little bit, saying, excuse me, pressure is on me, the pressure is on the population of the United States. Do your damn job, Congress, right now. Well, and it's quite interesting, right, because you hear President Trump get criticized for flooding the zone. They say it so pejoratively. But flooding the zone is just a response to the absolute disarray and chaos that President Biden left this country. And we have to flood the

zone with executive orders and action after action and tariff after tariffs because of what happened in Afghanistan at the southern border across this country with Chinese spy balloons, right? It's such a double standard. And congressional Republicans, the same people who are joining the Doge caucus and posting all their pictures and talking a tough game on Twitter, they're voting to continue spending levels at the very same Biden rate levels. And the Senate's already moving to try to make it the President Trump can't unilaterally impose tariffs.

You know what? The Senate is the people who've been there for probably longer than I've been alive, who allowed the Chinese Communist Party, who allowed these third world countries to overtake our manufacturing jobs, to seize essentially our means of production. And they did nothing about it because their donors, the people who've been funding them, got rich off of it and enjoy it.

And their constituents, the people who knocked the doors for them, donated them small dollar amounts. They have nothing but contempt for them. And you can see it on display. And frankly, it's insulting to the intelligence of your office. audience, Abandoned War Room audience, when they think that just some tweet or some strongly worded letter or some, you know, half-hearted hearing against a judge that has no really enforcement power is going to be enough to satisfy us. The MAGA movement is about shifting

the goalposts for accountability. And I think our audiences have been very clear that it's found in prison sentences and investigations for people who have committed crimes and not just strongly worded letters or, you know, Fox News segments where people are going off and getting nice, spicy rants, but these criminals keep getting away with it. Yep. Natalie, thank you so much. We'll talk to you again soon. Thank you for all the hard work you do sincerely. Thank you. Likewise. Thank you. That's Natalie Winters, White House correspondent and also co-host of Steve Bannon's War Room.